Anyone know if it can crit?
#assassination
frigid briar
Like vanish coral tb mut enevom
Honestly I got it in raid last night and today is the first time I will have to even look at logs and see how its acting ect
Hows progress omr?
fallow otter
MA can only make rogue abilities crit i thought
balmy condor
ma is a straight 50% crit chance buff
frigid briar
Were not far enough into ashvane to see yet lol
lament dove
so MA's tooltip is wrong? and if yes, what are those specific abilities?
marble hemlock
The gist of it would be "all rogue abilities"
Everything that is not a rogue ability/trait/talent does not get the extra-crit applied to it
cobalt gyro
pretty much, yea
interestingly, the version of MA on the leggo shoulders doesn't seem to have that restriction
gleaming prism
what makes blood of the enemy major / lucid minor sim so high for people?? I lose like 2k sim dps compared to lucid major / worldvein minor
real bay
do you have rank 3 bote
fair hill
also worldvein
gleaming prism
no but I used rank 3 in sims so that isn't the reason 😄
real bay
worldvein sims pretty good but in reality you move
fair hill
sim /= actual dps in fight
gleaming prism
yeah I play bote regardless I'm just wondering why it sims so high for others
like does it synergize with a particular trait?
solemn meadow
why shouldnt it? I mean it sims nearly the same as lucid major
but lucid sims alot better as minor
fair hill
lucid major dps ( just the major part ) is less than Bote major, the dps boost comes from lucid minor
solemn meadow
so bote + lucid
real bay
I'd use bote but missing 30k honor 
fair hill
this ^ lucid minor is very good, bote major > lucid major
solemn meadow
if I remember correctly
gleaming prism
ye but lucid major/ worldvein minor sims a lot higher than bote major / lucid minor for me. I was just wondering if there is some kind of trait / item that synergizes well with bote
woven summit
Does Top Gear make combinations of gems? For example make a combination and replace my mastery gems with haste and crit etc
solemn meadow
my sims want me to socket / enchant go full mastery
fair hill
and worldvein is really good, in sims :/
solemn meadow
if you do the "replace enchants and gems"
solid nova
@woven summit If you select the gems, yes
solemn meadow
then yes it does
woven summit
ah yeah there's an option
woven summit
But it makes 5 million iterations If I go replace gems lol
solemn meadow
thats what I am currently doing
woven summit
and 300K is top
nocturne jetty
Should i used Crucible of Flame on cooldown or does it need pairing with something? It's simming as my best major for ST rn
solemn meadow
or just do gems rather
you can see if enchants would be good too
just do one first
woven summit
I see, thanks for the tips
I might unsocket everything and make a sim that way see what it sockets
gems are cheap af now anyway
strange python
yeah thats makes sense 😃
woven summit
how much you waited for 80%?
woven summit
So I guess all in all like 10 minutes lol
5 minutes
well there's a lot of processing to do
but yeah it's crazy lol
solemn meadow
I can sim your enchants and sockets if you send me your pastebin
or send me a top gear sim
so I can run it again
woven summit
I'm not at home at the moment
tall narwhal
guys why it itsnt recommended to invest into benthic azerite gear ?
solemn meadow
who said that
woven summit
But thank's if you are on later we might do something if you don't mind
solemn meadow
theres nothing to do with pearls other than get benthic stuff
just dm me your sim whenever
woven summit
will do thanks
stoic zephyr
is there a fast/efficent way to farming bote rank 2/3. how long does it roughly take?>
solemn meadow
eh
took me 4 days of decently spamming 5man bgs
or just wait for BG week
thats in like 2 weeks? you get 50% more honor
night vale
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2HBCCmzRF12EE9B3rmGxum
Almost 38k now 😄
solid nova
Are you really getting a 5 stack worldvein though
solemn meadow
BG Event starts
solid nova
solemn meadow
14/8
I mean you can definitely
We have a tank and a dps warrior with r3 already
and 2 other melees but since I dont have r3 I dont use it atm
solid nova
Yeah but if you're simming R2 at 5 stacks
Might as well put a 455 cannonball runner in there as well
solemn meadow
maybe you have 4 other ppl with r3 
tall narwhal
@solemn meadow well from what i read in the guide
its only worth to upgrade belt boots
and wrists
solid nova
Gloves have a case too but the healing portion on it i dont think is accurate on sims
- pin word limit
shy axle
so everyone setteling for Blood major + lucid minor until raid r3?
solemn meadow
since these are the best essences you can have till then yes
summer marten
for me gloves dealt more damage than bracers in raid according to logs
scarlet hinge
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
rotund mural
blood of the enemy good for m+?
gleaming prism
I don't get it man. I can't get bote major + lucid minor to sim higher than lucid major + worldvein minor for me. I really want to know why it sims so high for other people 😄 I took some sims that got posted here and changed their essences from bote major / lucid minor to lucid major / worldvein major and it indeed sims lower for them. I tried adjusting trinkets / traits but I lose around 1 -2k sim dps when switching to bote major / lucid minor from lucid major / worldvein major
winter gale
For me also Lucid major/worldvein minor sims better
nimble tartan
Do u have crit boots
winter gale
Should I simm Worldvein with maybe less than 5 allies? Try with 2 since I mostly have 2,3 stacks of it max
faint harness
well yea, you're getting double the value if you sim it with 5 and have 2-3
nimble tartan
World vein 😡
faint harness
we're not even using 5 melees and there are few fights where ranged actually stack in melee
sullen pagoda
@gleaming prism is ur Bote lvl 3? its big difference
gleaming prism
ok this is what I'm talking about : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6CT7AuSntYjaUytwMenb3u This is Omr with bote / lucid
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/XzxW6NzhxfMGZMn3Uqj16 omr with lucid / worldvein
me with lucid / worldvein
me with bote / lucid
slim socket
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
gleaming prism
sorry for the spam
sullen pagoda
i wouldnt be suprised its cuz sims azshara trinket usage is garbage @gleaming prism
cuz sims dont support prepull
gleaming prism
we both have the same trinkets tho
sullen pagoda
idk then hmm
gleaming prism
and he loses like 1k dps when switching to lucid / worldvein while I gain 1k
there has to be a reason for this
sullen pagoda
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/i7zENc7vATmhWkXLcHa5G7 bote isnt good for me until i get lvl 3 atleast
hopefully soon 
gleaming prism
I simmed both with rank 3 and 5 worldvein allies
summer marten
your stats seem to be very different
normal quail
Hmm, my sim is telling me to go DD instead of TtK for M+ 🙄
sullen pagoda
i wouldn't sim m+ 🤷
normal quail
But ye, the Dungeon Slice is in BETA so idk if I an trust it
solemn meadow
and once I get coral Azshara + Coral is better again?
summer marten
he has barely any crit, so crit from bote is more valuable to him, i would guess
solemn meadow
why dis makes sense
faint harness
got some upgrades yesterday 🙂
gleaming prism
I think it's the custom potion
sullen pagoda
dont hide ur name there 
solemn meadow
You sim so high Push
gleaming prism
do stats really matter that much since they're all pretty close in statweights
solemn meadow
but I sadly dont have any sockets in my rings
I love how 415 + socket > 445
blizzard really did a good job
solemn meadow
well if the 415
has shit stats sure
but anything with major haste and socket outsims any other 445
midnight ledge
faint harness
midnight ledge
Baam
sullen pagoda
my 410 socket ring with shit stats barely sims lower than 440 better stats
faint harness
DH tho
solemn meadow
Dh's don't know how to use discord
normal quail
atm I got 3TtK, 1SS, 1EB and one Scent of Blood, wanna switch out the Scent for Blood to a SS. Good idea? (cant sim it cause I dont have a item like that)
solemn meadow
midnight ledge
Stack coral with vendetta
faint harness
it says in it
430
but the sim is with pre-channel font of power command
i normally sim 41.5k
solemn meadow
theres a command for it?
faint harness
bfa.font_of_power_precombat_channel=4
solemn meadow
still 41.5k is pretty high for 430
faint harness
put it in the APL-part of raidbots
faint harness
got 6 sockets
faint harness
bit more than 200
midnight ledge
U guys are stacking coral with font atm?
faint harness
i dont have coral 
faint harness
solemn meadow
hmm
broken meteor
is the cyclotronic blast trinket really as good as sims say? o.O
sullen pagoda
our warrior equipped coral he was supposed to give to me
faint harness
stund: yes
broken meteor
damn
sullen pagoda
he didnt know u need to wait for masterloot with tradeable items
faint harness
its consistently about 5% of your dmg + the stats
broken meteor
i got normal coral trinket just now and im using 415 lrukers and cyclonic trinket haha
Coral is 75 dps minus 😦
sullen pagoda
ye but lurkers on prog is kinda oof
faint harness
there are some bosses in there that i wouldnt use lurkers on
sullen pagoda
im using cyclonic thats 100 dps loss over lurker just cuz i cba with troll trinket
faint harness
mythic first boss, mythic ashvane are 2 at the top of my head
sullen pagoda
behemoth too i feel like
broken meteor
I might just use corals regardless >_<
faint harness
orogozoa another one
sullen pagoda
that dot he randomly puts on u hurts af
faint harness
ye true
broken meteor
how many stacks do ytou use corals on?
solemn meadow
coral is not really useful atm in mythic tho
since the ppl in my raid said that you can remove other ppls dots
so if you have multiple corals
you fuck each other
sullen pagoda
pretty sure they fixed that
solemn meadow
It did that yesterday
faint harness
sounds like a bug tho
faint harness
true
broken meteor
With corals do you juse use it with vendetta on pull then use it again 2mins later with vedetta regardless of stacks?
midnight ledge
Yeah cd on debuff on boss stays for 2min only too
signal summit
how many reliquaries do we get each week from the raid?
onyx hedge
hmm tihs chest peice is simming hgiher for some reason confuses the shit out of me lmao
I was running a 420 chest with NP and DD
:IIIII
solid nova
OP
onyx hedge
trying to get MA simming higher
dropping mast for crit and haste
looking into stuff everyone says run high amst and crit and low haste
but was watching method rogue run 28 crit 22 haste 32 mast
oak flower
Whats best lvl 100 talent for m+
onyx hedge
Just sick posion bomb and run aoe traits
oak flower
ok ty
main mirage
My sims are telling me to use 2 on use trinkets. Pocket-sized computation with the cyclotronic blast and a first mate's spyglass. How would you guys do your openers with these? I use the spyglass in the opener, and then cyclo when its ready.
cerulean depot
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
main mirage
It just seems so late to use the 2nd
autumn slate
What else are you gonna do?
main mirage
That is litterally my question? lol
autumn slate
Delay spyglass to use Cyclotronic when you can use spyglass with your opener?
Try to look at the sample sequence list in the HTML report
main mirage
Not sure where that is tbh, but i'll take a look
signal summit
@solemn meadow can u see if the raid essence r3 sims higher than bote for u ?
autumn slate
Its under the Action Priority list @main mirage
reef axle
do we just leave coral? or do we use it?
leave debuff on boss to stack up or use it on low stacks
autumn slate
Pair it with vendetta
obv not the first one because you wont have any stacks at the start
signal summit
ye do plz
onyx hedge
Lacroux what stats are you running???
real bay
what does it matter, run what sims best
onyx hedge
becuase im the long run MA will sim bettr than subt
onyx hedge
rlly?
scenic saffron
Anybody tried queen azshara trinket + lady ashvane trinket together ?
onyx hedge
everyone telling me differnet things *cry
onyx hedge
Im running 27% crit 17% haste 41% mast 4% vers thats wrong stats for MA im guessing?
and i need to get bettr traits for MA
scenic saffron
Just use azshara one before pull and coral when its ready yeah ?
sturdy dust
It depends on your essence
sturdy dust
Those stats are optimal if you have Lucid Major
onyx hedge
i missed heaps of days
my essneces are like 1-2
but i sim with rank 3 which is what i would have right now if i didnt miss days
not that sim tho
that is with my current level essnecse
reef axle
hmmm
it might be worth using font 20 seconds prior to vend coming off cd
so u can pair coral up with it
golden bobcat
hello can anyone confirm sims are correct for font saying that its worse than cyclotronic
but i cant find what the apl is doing for font
arctic walrus
What's your other trinket
golden bobcat
coral
rigid mango
Two on use trinks that both want to be used w vend sounds bad
golden bobcat
dont really have much options all i have are onuse
solemn meadow
wait what
vanish muti ashvane rupture?
why would you rupture in your vanish window
rigid mango
I nean you don't, you have cyclo too
And afaik it still doesn't interact w trinket cd's
arctic walrus
If I had gotten a 445 coral last night I would've broken 43k 
signal summit
vel whats ur sim?
golden bobcat
anyone have a line to make the trinket be used prepull
golden bobcat
so it might be better than cyclo if it adds that much
signal summit
are u guys gonna change to the raid major essence u think or go bote?
reef axle
rank 3 is the only one worth while, anything lower cannot outperform blood
signal summit
im thinking if its worht pvping like crazy or just wait
obtuse gorge
Hey guys, sorry to interrupt current convo.
Recently returned to assass after being outlaw all bfa as my team needs more single target for pushing keys. Getting confused by different guides saying different things, is triple garrote the best traits to have for M+ pushing?
tawny arch
Noob question: do you clip EP or envenom buff when finishing with envenom?
tropic ocean
and you use lucid essence
nova gorge
What's eb?
lone junco
Clip ep is ideal. But inside the ep so you buff your env hit.
tropic ocean
echoing blades
tawny arch
Thanks. With toxic blade just ignore ep and just fit as many env as possible yea?
obtuse gorge
Awesome, thanks @tropic ocean I'll give it a go!
tropic ocean
good luck mate
@tawny arch for tb u want to pool
have >150 energy and 3-4 cp
so u tb>envenom mut mut envenom mut mut envenom
tawny arch
Okay thanks
tropic ocean
in a multi target scenario on other hand in packs u mostly just build with fok and spam envenoms into tb prio mob
strange python
Which talents do you prefer to use? I am currently simming higher using MA but not sure how I feel about the rotation. Subterfuge felt much smoother
tropic ocean
I use subter on multitarget and ma on pure st
or with adds where its not important to switch too
e.g. radiance
subter with 1 ss that is
tropic ocean
sockets op
arctic walrus
rank 3 + coral = big
sturdy dust
What's the best way to farm honor for BOTE?
arctic walrus
random bgs as ally
twin fiber
Dont queue for epic bgs tho
royal lantern
dont queue for epic bgs in general
twin fiber
Well, yeah
arctic walrus
I think if you wanna afk farm you queue for epics
faint harness
y'all slow
arctic walrus
so you're still working towards something
faint harness
got rank 3 within first 3 days
twin fiber
Got rank4 yesterday 
royal lantern
more done then me=no life
strange python
man you guys are lucky to get the benthic gear with socket drops....cant get them to drop to save my life haha\
umbral scaffold
Wtf, azshara trinket breaks stealth with master assassin but not with subterfuge
lmao
arctic walrus
It do be like that
umbral scaffold
pls fix 😦
umbral scaffold
It shouldn't tho 🤔
arctic walrus
It's not even a big deal though
You macro prepot and stealth and don't notice any difference
royal lantern
what has prepot too do with the trinket and master assassin
arctic walrus
When else would trinket popping you out of stealth matter unless on the prepull
royal lantern
idk, maybe too use shroud too get people close too the boss
or,like, because you tend too use stealth without pre-pots too sometimes
strange python
shroud wouldnt even be necessary for that. Id assume you would use trink at the same time as vendetta though right?
fiery hazel
isn't the heart of the issue is how trinkets and other things interact differently with MA vs Sub?
not how much difficulty that adds to prepulls.
sturdy dust
For those with Blightborne Infusion from Gorak Tul's Mantle - how often does it proc?
faint harness
check the average uptime in your sim logs
tropic ocean
@sturdy dust usually 20~30% uptime
mossy zealot
how many seconds left do I want for snapshots on garrote seems I am refreshin to early n its costin me dps :/
noble verge
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
cobalt gyro
Blightborne is 1ppm or so
mossy zealot
danké
royal lantern
how much worse then the frost dmg wrist is the puffer fish wrist for sin?
cobalt pelican
during no boss movement like 0.1%
during boss movement, a bit more
during aoe, a bit less
(as in, they're better)
solid nova
Its so minor i'd upgrade either one
I got frost damage with socket first, but i'd have taken puffer too
royal lantern
yeha, just got it, and was not sure if it is a big difference and keep rolling, or just upgrade them now
but, well, time too upgrade the wrist then i gues, thx
solid nova
I would if socket
royal lantern
socket ofc
cobalt pelican
ori's always has the lowest % of my damage of my 3 benthic pieces for some reason despite simming as the highest gain
quasi pewter
they do yes
royal lantern
all 3 slots done now 
socket boots writs and belt
cobalt pelican
yeee i meant the 3 that do damage
i'd have to do actual math to find the crit increase
quasi pewter
i need to upgrade vims to 420 then i have all 420 socket 
royal lantern
wrist and belt still 385 sooo.....
severe bough
Oris is the highest gain
Because wrists have shit for stats
So an Equip: effect on a pair of wrists is particularly massive
So as a socket
arctic walrus
What do I have to add to sim abberation belt again
strange python
What is the best opener to use. I just switch from running subterfuger with ss because MA was simming higher.
Ive tried it a couple of different ways
cobalt pelican
an affixed item has the same value regardless of where the affix is
assuming all of the prior pieces are of similar quality
oris gains the most dps per ilvl even against itself in sim despite gaining the least stats like the proc scales better but it doesn't really match what i've seen so far but anecdotal shit << sim for now
bronze vine
are azshara gloves simming correctly?
gleaming viper
any advices on when cast cyclo ? during vendetta/bloodlust/blightborne infusion ? on cd ?
distant lava
If you simmed top gear
You can see three dots next to every combination , click them and select quick sim, then you can see it there
(Opener and spell usage)
simple meteor
40-45 into fight under 80 energy with bleeds up
pearl pagoda
i got the best gloves socketed and then found out the gloves arent even that useful compared to wrists...which i dont have
royal lantern
just bench every single melee except yourself, so that nobody can block the glove effect
ez
vernal robin
i only have the boots 
pearl pagoda
wait the glove effect can be blocked?!
gleaming viper
works too with quick sim 😃 @distant lava
strange python
Whats the best opener/rotation when running MA without SS? just want to see what everyone is is doing and what works for them\
sturdy dust
Mutilate -> Rupture -> Mutilate -> Garrote -> Vendetta -> Vanish -> Toxic Blade then Envenom and Mutilate.
it's in the pin but figured I'd let you know
supple monolith
Hey guys do you know if you can sim Punch cards?
willow mason
you can
supple monolith
how?
torpid sluice
Gear compare, add the trinket name.
In there you'll get drop down menus for red and yellow
willow mason
supple monolith
Thx a lot ❤
pearl pagoda
so i use ashvanes trinket on opener, and then every vendetta window yeah?
astral tangle
The correct way to use ashvane's is
stray zodiac
why does it tell me to replace the garrote azerite trait?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/j5G6Kmuyskh1xZpZnNcGb6
astral tangle
In the opener, during second vend, then again as soon as it comes off cool down (to build stacks again). Then 3rd vend
sick cradle
Is the verdict in on using both Ashvane and Azshara trinket?
hollow gyro
Feel like I'm having a hard time getting maximum value out of Ashvane on Azshara
pearl pagoda
ashvanes trinket wont do too well on that fight i think
hollow gyro
Feels bad... 445 socket 😦
pearl pagoda
better to use something like azhara trinket or something more ST focused
rigid mango
Both trinks combined are bad
astral tangle
It does fine on azshara
rigid mango
Since both want to be used during vend
astral tangle
You can get both during 2nd vend
rigid mango
Does the reuse not count as a use for coral?
Cuz sims I've seen don't like the two together
That much
astral tangle
Mine love it together
rigid mango
astral tangle
It's actually pretty easy, I think you get some during opener as well
Sims are using Font wrong imo
Been talking it over with other rogues
astral tangle
I cast font 6 seconds into prepull
astral tangle
That works too
rigid mango
That 1 sec 
Inkpod is also giga insane if it crits
So if you're running blood and or coral that shit fucking SLAPS
frank sentinel
yea, fury warriors and dh's getting 1.6m crits on ashvane 
pearl pagoda
that sounds like it could be really strong on ashvane
rigid mango
It is
astral tangle
Very
rigid mango
Pretty sure it's BiS on that
frank sentinel
absolutely
astral tangle
I think font and Coral are still 2nd best
rigid mango
Ye for sure, if they work together
pearl pagoda
font coral fight eachother though
astral tangle
Lines up perfectly with caraprace
astral tangle
I had font/coral buff uptime together all night last night
rigid mango
You can still get 10 sec of coral
astral tangle
^
astral tangle
For example
rigid mango
Nah it for sure is
strange python
Outlaw here, game is giving me 24/7 items with mastery, so gotta change to sin probably ^ ^, I wanna ask what is best combination of azerite traits for M+ if pugging?
strange python
and BIS? cheking io of top 10, and there are like 3 variations
frank sentinel
yes
astral tangle
If you cast font the moment she begins casting cara, cast vend when there is 20 seconds left on font buff, then use coral as soon as it comes up, van, and tb
arctic walrus
@rigid mango Does sim know what it's doing with font/coral, or should I just go without the double on use
rigid mango
Bis atm is 3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss or 2/2/2 imo
astral tangle
Youll get full coral duration with vend and font
rigid mango
@arctic walrus unsure
rigid mango
You got both?
arctic walrus
I don't, just thinking for the future
rigid mango
Like
astral tangle
We're literally talking about that right now.. Hah
rigid mango
Check the apl with them both?
astral tangle
Just scroll up
arctic walrus
Yeah ik i've been reading
I just don't have a coral to look at ability log or anything
astral tangle
They're really strong together
frank sentinel
who else is still slowly killing themselves with a trinket? 
astral tangle
I wish I was
Lurkers 455 
Looking forward to next week where I don't have to think about essences anymore
cosmic prism
why?
astral tangle
Everyone will use r3 raid essence
rigid mango
R3 life force
frank sentinel
dwayne will carry
rigid mango
Just giga bis
frank sentinel
the ROCK
rigid mango
It's nutty 4 sure
past marten
@arctic walrus What custom APL are you using?
astral tangle
Pretty sure most will run Major LF, and minor Lucid & Iris (or Flame)
Worldvane is just handicapped by movement
frank sentinel
yea we hate worldvein
rigid mango
Interested in 65 one tho
astral tangle
Yeah
rigid mango
But loses value when u swap
astral tangle
But blood is good too
arctic stone
So I am used to bloodmallet. When looking at hero damage Azerite traits it list the same traits twice. Once with a tiny icon. What is that for?
astral tangle
Vers weighs more than haste if you're using lucid
rigid mango
I'm interested in if we just go
Life M lucid m iris m and drop haste
Go stack other shit
astral tangle
More than likely
rigid mango
Would be 
dry copper
FYI, for Za'qul, leech poison is absurd for staying in delirium realm.
arctic walrus
So
astral tangle
But it is common
arctic walrus
It looks like coral gets used on cd after the 2nd vendetta??
pearl pagoda
yeah
astral tangle
Yup
pearl pagoda
its used at start and then every vendetta window
cobalt pelican
it's literally not possible for haste to be a negative stat weight
pearl pagoda
(unless youre running inkpod in which case it might change idk)
cobalt pelican
and coral with double on use definitely is not implemented in a planned way
astral tangle
Coral in opener, coral for second veng, then coral on cooldoan to build again
cobalt pelican
i think it's probably pretty bonkers if you're using lust for 3minute losers
astral tangle
@cobalt pelican it is possible.. Haha
cobalt pelican
you can just fit it in there and let it sit the rest of the time
having 1 point of haste will never give you negative damage
idk what planet you're living on if you think that
astral tangle
I guess Sims are lying?
rigid mango
Sims are scuffed.
astral tangle
Just scroll up over the past week.
rigid mango
They fixed it a while back tho
Yeah
it was a font issue tho
it wasn't actual sims
cobalt pelican
there was 1 day where there was a bug interaction which cause a 2k dropoff
rigid mango
we went through this if you look at our convos
astral tangle
Alright alright
cobalt pelican
apply some common sense
even if you gain no energy
and no dot haste
you auto a tiny bit faster
rigid mango
p sure it was me, fairy and vel going through this shit
cobalt pelican
0.001 haste weight pog
rigid mango
maybe some1 else too
astral tangle
My bad
I can't be in here all the time, just have to absorb what I can when I can.
arctic walrus
Friendship ended with a 10 haste stat weight, now -3 weight is my best friend
cobalt pelican
if you're lusting in line with 2mins i don't even know what you'd do with coral
tb sounds the most logical but
most logical isn't always best
night vale
haste is my highest weight 😒
cobalt pelican
and maybe letting it sit till tb at <30 is correct
and literally not pressing it ever else
arctic walrus
So do you coral 20s after vendetta window and hold until next one?
or use in between
rigid mango
Using font at 10 sec before vend and getting 10 sec of vend + coral + font
sounds pretty good
rigid mango
It just
astral tangle
That's very wrong
rigid mango
cobalt pelican
so it goes for 1x vendetta with both trinkets up
and then just
fuck it smash button on cd
cobalt pelican
given that the usage for other specs is basically
astral tangle
We've covered the best way to use coral, just ignore your Sims. Haha
cobalt pelican
apply it once and wait till it's big stacked and use it in line with a smaller cd (ar for outlaw, symbols for sub)
i'd imagine if you can't force line it with vendetta because of font
a similar strat would be the best for us too
it's just awkward cause
tb isn't really comparable to symbols i guess
arctic walrus
let me see without font, if it would do the same
cobalt pelican
nah it's implemented fully without font now i think
so it should just apply once and use in line with 2nd and 3rd
rigid mango
I mean it's not ignoring sims
if sims do this
there might be a logical, dps reasoning as to why
pearl pagoda
im so fucking bad at sims i have no idea how to look at the APL lol
astral tangle
I'd be really interested to see why a sim would use coral on cd
rigid mango
I'm not saying it's correct
astral tangle
Practice makes perfect
rigid mango
I'm just saying if sims are doing it, it might be correct
cobalt pelican
the way trinkets are usually implemented by default is just to press them on cd, rightly or wrongly
astral tangle
That's the first sim I've ever seen doing that
cobalt pelican
the first week coral was doing so regardless of 2onuse
then the conditions that
coral would be in line with vendetta for us, ar at <30% for outlaw, and symbols at <30% for sub were implemented
but afaik there has not been any other conditions added
which means if you have another trinket that takes priority (slot 1) for vendetta
then it will use that trinket with vendetta, so slot1 font uses it with vend
and then coral just has no usage conditions
so it defaults to on cd
if you swap coral to slot1 and font to slot 2 in theory
coral should go back to taking vendetta priority
and what it does with font, i don't know, but i'd imagine it presses it on cd after vendetta
not sure whether coral slot1 or font slot1 would s im the best really, i'd imagine font given it's like 3k mainstat
crisp steppe
font but you have to imagine fora lot of progress you'll have access to a 445 coral vs 430 font
cobalt pelican
how you actually use the second on use is something i don't think is 100% ironed out
it might be worth something weird like font vendt1, apply coral, font vend2, coral vend3, font outside vend towards fight end
so you get 1 thiqy vend with 100% crit
crisp steppe
computation device is huge too tho. im not too worried about using both of em
cobalt pelican
but these are all things that need to be checked with actual sims
and i'm too idiot to add apl conditions without breaking things
waxen valve
Why no Vims belt in pinned message of benthic gear? It is better overall, isnt it?
cobalt pelican
it's pinned in the benthic post in wowgen
strange python
man i cant get benthic gear to drop with sockets to save my life. If i get the right gear with desired effects, is it better to level them up all the way then try to farm the slotted gear at a later point? i just feel like its a lot of wasted pearls
cobalt pelican
not sure why the one here wasn't updated
with all of the pieces
it just has the 'better than everything except socketed mythic forged' tier pieces
rather than the 'better than everything now' pieces (poens/vims)
it really depends how many alts you have and what you're trying to accomplish dryst to be honest
if you want dps NOW and your pearl income is limited you can upgrade unsocketed pieces but it's super short term gain
strange python
yea sadly i dont have any alt. Do to my job i really only have time to focus on one toon
cobalt pelican
and those pearls will eventually have been wasted anyway when you have to either reupgrade a socket vers or get a mythic piece that is better so
astral tangle
To be honest, even if you get a 445 coral, you'll still use font if I remember correctly
It's just so good for mut
strange python
have blizzard done something, my weakauras look weird now
cobalt pelican
the default profile uses both, which is why the discussion of potentially using both is happening
astral tangle
I use both right now
fiery hazel
You also said haste is a negative stat, so ill wait for further theory crafting. 😃
astral tangle
Good one
To be fair, I said haste is a negative stat for some.
Because it was shown to be for a little due to bug
But, you're right.
arctic walrus
I don't think order matters @cobalt pelican
Or at least gear compare doesn't show it
fiery hazel
There are so many things in the air and then saying definitive things like "this will be better than that" when we don't know is silly.
cobalt pelican
it's possible that there's something that forces font to take priority already maybe
astral tangle
Maybe I've done Sims myself on all 445 and 430 trinkets and am making decisions based off of my Sims?
Isn't that what they're for?
Figuring out priority pieces, for loot drops and progression.. 🤔
fiery hazel
well then your statement should be "For me, this has been the better way but your mileage may vary."
arctic walrus
no real difference
cobalt pelican
is this with the precombat apl line?
severe bough
How much dps would i gain if i ever replace my 410 m+ trinkets with coral and inkpod, or coral and font?
arctic walrus
oooh yeah could be that
marble elm
The real crime here is focused resolve still being the default potion
marble elm
Nope
astral tangle
It is good on some fights
severe bough
Pepehands
marble elm
Like what
astral tangle
First boss?
cobalt pelican
they both seem to do roughly the same though which is just basically applying coral once and leaving it till close to fight end in line with your last lucid
marble elm
It got hard nerfed
cobalt pelican
which i guess makes a ton of sense i forgot lucid falls outside vend
i kinda just default brain to playing blood
arctic walrus
You want unbridled fury on ashvane because her down phase lasts 1 minute
inner wedge
Guys, what are you using for multi-dot tracking? Should I poison knife far away target?
pearl pagoda
okay i have a sim done on my character and i have the apl open how the shit do i read the cd useage
astral tangle
It's still good
marble elm
Yea I’m not sure about that
severe bough
astral tangle
Sim yourself
cobalt pelican
open the full html report on the right -> action priority list -> scroll down -> sample sequence table
harsh anchor
I’ve used unbridled fury as default. Was a dps increase in most situations and it simmed higher than other pots
astral tangle
Wheres the guy who was just on me for not being specific.. Haha, just because the pot simmed better for you, doesn't mean it isn't good for other people.
pearl pagoda
TY @cobalt pelican
arctic walrus
So it looks like even without the precombat font channel, coral gets used on cd after 2nd vendetta
candid sedge
hi, Im fairly new to assasination and am a bit lost cause in the pinned messages it says double 2ndary wep enchants and the online guide says Force Multi and 2ndary on offhand,
Which one is correct? o:
arctic walrus
Nightr did you kill her
astral tangle
Yeah @arctic walrus
faint harness
Its quite a big difference for me actually
astral tangle
That’s a bold statement, on which bosses?
marble elm
On any boss
arctic walrus
near coyote
I don't get do I only 5 cp enevenom and rupture if I'm lucky with cps say I get 4 off two mutilates do I spend or wait for 5
marble elm
Crit pot is bad
cobalt pelican
that's not what shows for me on the sim you linked vel
faint harness
Like 400 dps difference between crit pot and unbridled
marble elm
It’s just not good
dire spoke
cobalt pelican
ashvane slot1 for example
astral tangle
Coral in opener, coral with 2nd vend, coral on cooldown, then coral on 3rd vend (or if the boss is about to die.
cobalt pelican
it gets applied at 16s (as early as it can)
harsh anchor
cobalt pelican
then the ONLY time it's procced for crit
faint harness
The crit pot might be better for ppl with low crit/no BotE in opener etc. But as someone who has 31% crit and BotE its kinda terrible.
cobalt pelican
is at 4:20 with lucid after 3rd vend
marble elm
You get 1% per stack
faint harness
ya its big sad
prisma carbon
i sim higher with unbridled fury, but for some reason it always runs focused resolve if i let simc decide
cobalt pelican
cause the default hasn't been updated in like 2 weeks
near coyote
@prisma carbon where did u Sim
real bay
crit pot giga poop
prisma carbon
@near coyote top gear on raidbots
faint harness
I checked some BotE CD-usage logs, and by god that is ajust a big mess atm. It might be like a gradual gain, but imagine piecing that sequence together.
arctic walrus
Big dk plays
near coyote
I don't get cp usage, do I only 5 cp enevenom and rupture if I'm lucky with cps say I get 4 off two mutilates do I spend or wait for 5
astral tangle
Do mut over 4 cp's
marble elm
If our feral had inkpod it would do like consistently 1.5-2mil
arctic walrus
At least i'm 6th out of 6 rogues on ashvane now 
legit my worst pull is the one it dies
astral tangle
We had some 10% wipes on her last night, hoping to get her down Sunday
cobalt pelican
cause of her fucking absorb shiled
marble elm
I’m popping off on that fight
cobalt pelican
coksucker
marble elm
Doing 17k some pulls
arctic walrus
We had a 3 mil wipe too 2nd pull of the night
marble elm
Before death
arctic walrus
took 2 hours to kill though
real bay
ded on monday maybe
worn crag
Why the hell do some people still play outlaw in m+? 🤔
astral tangle
It's not bad?
arctic walrus
At least on ashvane you can stay in stealth on pull
prisma carbon
it's still the best spec for m+
real bay
they are pirates
crisp steppe
@prisma carbon yeah its a LOT better right now than assa. assa doesn't have traits yet
arctic walrus
I'm not sure how many corals we had but I think we had at least 3 pods
crisp steppe
pod is just 1 big hit right? or do the stacks each have a chance individually to crit
prisma carbon
hmmm
marble elm
Yea that’s wack
crisp steppe
yeah thats lame
marble elm
We could have killed it a couple pulls if we had more but what can ya do
lone sorrel
Is there a ressource to check punchcards sim for the mechagon trinket?
crisp steppe
when you have multiple people use it on say ashvane. getting all crits vs no crits is the difference in kill vs wipe
marble elm
And healers getting bubbled during ramp
arctic walrus
You guys lust at 6 min?
marble elm
Not sure exactly I’m always dead
After the first wave I wanna say but I can’t remember
arctic walrus
Oh so towards the beginning?
inner wedge
Guys, what do you use for multi-dot tracking?
marble elm
After the first wave in the 3rd shield
astral tangle
Boss frames and unit frames @inner wedge
marble elm
Yeah looks like 6 minutes
past marten
Is it actually worth it to de-sync BotE from Vendetta in order to use it for the Pod proc?
If you cannot align Vendetta when you hit 30%, that is
marble elm
Probably
arctic walrus
I don't think you're gonna be hitting over 1 mil during vendetta so yeah worth maybe
ripe nimbus
Punk
cosmic wren
Personally I think the big dick play is to go for it ever time and intentionally wipe the raid if it doesnt crit
Make SURE you get that parse
past marten
coral + bote is the play then
80% crit chance, no crit, kms
order of events basically
nimble tartan
coral 2 hard to use, next trinket please
timber meadow
would love some help throwin this M+ sim together. Never really done M+ as assa so just tryna see what I can do with it
marble elm
Soul capacitor please
prisma dagger
Where is the soft cap on crit? should i go for 30% crit and then go for more haste and mastery or should i go for more crit? currently i got 36% crit 15% haste and 29% mastery. stats weight when simming says haste gives 3,88 and crit still 3,98
nimble tartan
I broke up with bbi
tropic ocean
@prisma dagger theres no cap afaik
do you use lucid essence? since your mastery seems really low considering u have that much crit already
prisma dagger
ive been using iris as major and lucid as minor. it simms higher for me
worn crag
@prisma carbon idk in what outlaw should perform better in m+
tropic ocean
are you sure you're simming correctly?
hollow junco
after countless pearls, got pufferfish bracers with socket at 385. trying to decide if it's worth to continue rolling for frost dmg bracers or to just start upgrading the pufferfish.
worn crag
Sin is amazing so
past marten
the play is actually Vanish at 30.2%
tropic ocean
iris major shouldn't really sim higher than lucid
past marten
Why
marble elm
Master assassin only affects rogue abilities
past marten
friendship ended with MA
marble elm
There a whitelist
past marten
subterfuge is now my best friend
prisma dagger
well i think so @tropic ocean i can sim again and link it
prisma dagger
ye you are right, ive been using r3 lucid as major all the time for ST except yesterday cuz it simmed higher with iris, i guess i had dungeonslice on or something 😛
now it shows lucid is better. but im still not sure if i should go for more haste or crit
marble elm
i always gem haste because it makes my spec feel better 
tropic ocean
we'll your traits are really suboptimal so
probably the reason mastery has such a low value for you
prisma dagger
i just started to play again in 8.2 after 8 months break. so i dont got any better pieces. not sure what traits to go for for ST and even for aoe in m+ 😛
deft nymph
so is blood major lucid minor the go-to?
nimble tartan
I forgot I had a 3rd 120....gotta get some pearlies...
deft nymph
seems that's what all the wf boys are running
tropic ocean
after reset they will run raid essence
so wouldn't bother with blood
blood was good until you can get raid essence cuz u could just grind it straight to r3
marble elm
Can’t wait for the clf nerf
prisma dagger
what trits are you guys going for for st? is it not nothing personal and double dose anymore?
tropic ocean
3 dd 1 np 1 bbi 1 ttk with current azerite pieces
broken meteor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gvSNKTuQ6tSnagHurS3kHD
Anyone let me know how i can imrpove this or what to go for next 😃
arctic walrus
Better azerite
prisma dagger
thanks ❤
broken meteor
So just buy a random mythic pieace next week ya think?
for the 47k or w/e it costs
cobalt pelican
get benthic gear get better traits add force multiplier to your sim
tropic ocean
I bought 2 hc pieces this week
guess it depends if you raid or not
I wanted to be as strong as possible for progress
broken meteor
I raid once to twice a week haha
broken meteor
6/8 heroic so far
cobalt pelican
you're just gonna hit an ashvane wall till either a change or like
at least a few weeks gear
tropic ocean
yea
broken meteor
Yeah
cobalt pelican
just gonna rock goggles+loyal to the end shoulders+residuumed chest
tropic ocean
but then its even more worth having the 430pieces
broken meteor
So try to sime force multiplier yeah? and just aim for benthic boots and belt with sockets?
broken meteor
In the end you'll want 3xDD instead of 3x NP?
tropic ocean
dd gets more value from stacking than np yeah
cobalt pelican
the gain from first point np is way lower than it was
tropic ocean
but a 2nd np isnt bad, just theres better options
cobalt pelican
bbi for example replaces the 1np from goraks for a lot of people with the current energy income
broken meteor
I only have 1 DD since i have no azerite with it on sadly lol
Besides the hlemt x.x
bbi?
broken meteor
AH
So pretty much cross my finger that i get a good azerite mythic piece next week? other then that benthic gear spam lol
narrow orchid
dno which one it is
past marten
It's still up in the air how to combine Ashvane and Azshara though if I understood it correctly
vestal wren
🔎 i need discord detectives!
fallow estuary
Epic BG's or normal ones for more honor gain towards bote?
past marten
What for @vestal wren
Also: Are people actually following the APL's opener? It starts with double Mut
tropic ocean
I open with mut rup mut
vestal wren
Method is sending 3 rogues down, whats the reason for that?
tropic ocean
cuz rogue IS PUMPING
past marten
They survive the Insanity stacks
harsh anchor
Big boi damage ofc
vestal wren
from stream it assumes to be that they can use cos (and stay down longer) and iirc the casters mentioned they would line up blood with cd's down there
past marten
and the Vendetta pump is good
distant cypress
quick question - do we use new wep enchants like force multiplier now or still the old ones ?
vestal wren
so, mystler brought up a good point
tropic ocean
I assume with gcd lock due to massive haste
they can giga stack ink pod on boss too
vestal wren
if these rogues go down for burst, why do they not play exsang?
jaunty arrow
What we use for m+ now? Iris + lucid and tb + bp or ct insted of Pb?
vestal wren
exsang offers a ~10% higher burst and benefits even more from haste
tropic ocean
think they just wanna stack trinket
past marten
why wouldn't they send Reeves then for the trinket?
tropic ocean
idk can he survive long enough?
I can just imagine stacking a lot of inkpod on it then put it in puddle with dps buff
and when he hits 30%
boom
vestal wren
well still, wouldnt exsang be better there?
past marten
they also play MA for the uber-crits with BotE
deft nymph
talkin about cyclotron?
vestal wren
incpot iirc