ma is slightly stronger on st tho
#assassination
woven summit
Yeah I know but lack traits for MA so I sim a bit lower
floral loom
i'm having trouble finding a ST rotation for focusing iris, can someone direct me to where i can find it?
is it important to use it in vendetta but after the standard opener?
or does it not get buffed 30%?
woven summit
Not sure whether Iris lines up with Vendetta 🤔
floral loom
more for the opener
i imagine afterwards it's not going to line up until the 3rd vendetta
wait, that's not correct
woven summit
I mean does it benefit from Vendetta?
floral loom
that's the question
woven summit
I think it doesn't just like flame
but not sure
never used it for ST only for keys
floral loom
and you don't use it on bosses?
woven summit
I use it
But I thought it doesn't benefit from Vendetta
So I just used it after the opener sequence ended
vapid scarab
???
summer marten
might be at the time public was going up, i went from 100 to 1000 in queue, so was probably infinity
sweet flame
not like this 
steel wagon
shout outs to getting gear in the benthic slot
devout gazelle
guys is it worth to spend 100 mp for the final upgrade crit boots with socket or just gamble on another piece?
polar cape
Having an other piece 420 is better imo
woven summit
I spent all on the wrist with socket lol
But I dont have another piece with socket to upgrade atm
sweet flame
I've only got belt with socket so far 
I've lost count of how many socketed non-crit boots I've got
vestal wren
boots are one of the hardest slots to gamble for slot
junior flume
Wrists are kicking my ass
simple meteor
same 
junior flume
Is the frost version far superior to puffer and splash physical?
strange python
I got a socketed fish and settled
junior flume
I'm considering it
Just not sure of how big a difference it is between the two
Sims will tell 😄
woven summit
I got 600 damage increase from the wrist
Had the 415 wrist from BoD before with socket
tropic ocean
rookie numbers
arctic walrus
I got Poen's last night guys 
misty tusk
if its 87 dps i might settle aswell 😮
runic basin
which essenc do you guys farm?
woven summit
I wanted to farm it before the raid came out but couldn't play then
I'll farm it slowly. For the time being I don't need it urgently.
Got 25K honor left to farm
celest drift
Can someone tell me why many of big guild rogue's ar gemming crit instead of haste? i'm missing something?
sweet flame
haste is pretty bad depending on your gear/traits
fleet whale
what's the new weapon enchant called?
sweet flame
force multiplier
celest drift
@sweet flame guess the awnser is "sim yourself" as usual then?
sweet flame
yes
celest drift
ahah, alright then, thanks 😃
sweet flame
like my current weights
celest drift
versa? :<
woven summit
is that outlaw sim?
fresh ginkgo
Using lucid probably
bleak spoke
Kinda weird that you sim verse over mastery though
Though I guess verse affecting double dose is rather large
sturdy dust
My two highest simming stats right now are Mastery and Vers
sturdy dust
30 crit / 14 Haste / 41 Mastery / 4 Vers and it still has Mastery and Vers at the top
hollow gyro
Fury pot the GOAT now?
scenic saffron
Is pocket-sized still good ? Pocket sized and azshara trinket sims highest for me. How do I use them both since they are both on use trinkets ?
glass seal
@strange python using lucid dream minor, 14% haste seems fine
strange python
I'm Cruc major lucid minor with 26% haste
sturdy dust
@strange python That's what I thought too, but it has Haste simming the lowest for me. I have Lucid Major which plays a part in that.
strange python
Ah you are major that's why
glass seal
I'm using it in minor slot and haste also dropped a lot in my sims in favour of mastery
marble elm
fervent jasper
Anyone else having this issue? I've played outlaw for the last few days but logged out last night as assassination. When I go to raidbots to sim it still shows me as outlaw with all my outlaw gear on. I've refreshed, rescanned my character, etc. It just doesnt seem to want to recognize me as sin right now. Anyone know how to make it update? Usually it instantly updates me as whatever I logged out as
empty scarab
hey guys, got a short question. In Warcraftlogs I realized that many Sin Rogues use Blood of the Enemy as major trait instead of Lucid Dreams, but use LD as minor. So far so good. Why to use BotE as major? LD in major sims for aprox. 2k dps more
dense axle
my highest stats are haste, crit, and mastery, but theyre all 1.5, 1.47, and 1.43 so theyre pretty much worth the same
fervent jasper
@empty scarab not everyone sims the same way. If you sim 2k higher with a different major essence I'd run it
wide delta
dense axle
@empty scarab depends on the rank of BOTE you have. If you have Rank 3 it might sim higher. My best set is Rank 3 Lucid with Rank 2 Worldvein minor
fervent jasper
@wide delta a 15 will get you rank 3 iris next week guaranteed
empty scarab
@dense axle Same here. my best sim is Lucid Rank 2 in major + Worldvein 2 minor.. was just wondering since round 90% of the sin rogues in HC logs run BOTE in major
daring basalt
What enhant should I use on my main weapon? And what gem?
warped shoal
@daring basalt sim it for yourself at raidbots
mild pilot
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
fickle gale
can some one help me with the perfect Opener ?? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rmR86oJZ3PyDDHjVEHm4ZT
fervent jasper
Garrote, mutilate, rupture, vendetta, lucid, toxic blade, mutilate to 5 combo points, vanish, envenom, mutilate, envenom @fickle gale
fickle gale
thx mate
cobalt pelican
hwat
fickle gale
though its bit like overcapping energy
serene basin
dont agree with the lucid :/
fickle gale
so plz tell me 😃
fervent jasper
Was just guessing on the lucid tbh
dense axle
@cobalt pelican where on the sim do you see opener sequence?
I can never find it on the full reports
cobalt pelican
either in the full report under action priority list -> show sample sequence
or it's in the quick sim raidbots gui thing now
as show sample ability log
cobalt pelican
then scroll down and sample sequence table
fervent jasper
Wouldn't open with garrote?
cobalt pelican
negative
dense axle
yeah Ive heard with MA you dont want to open with garrote
cobalt pelican
you can still use the gar mut rupt opener if you'd like as it was before as the difference is minor but the sim opener listed is the 'ideal' if you're really searching for an ideal
fervent jasper
When did that change out of cutiosity?
cobalt pelican
a week or so ago?
fervent jasper
I just copy and pasted Dratnos' master assassin opener from his video
cobalt pelican
it's been 'better' for longer than that but that's when it was added to the apl
fervent jasper
Ah that's why
mighty elm
thats if you use blood of the enemy only im pretty sure
or thats what #tc-updates say
fervent jasper
What if hes unlucky and his 1st mutilate doesn't get any crits?
balmy stump
anyone know how to open with the ashvane trinket?
woven summit
I think it's common knowledge to use lucid when under 50 energy right?
not together with vendetta
dense axle
huh, my sim is telling me to mut, mut, rupt, garrote, vendetta, vanish, TB, mut, env, mut
cobalt pelican
it's applied to all essences afaik, vanish usage obviously changes from vanish tb as per bod to vanish env mut env
dense axle
and then to Lucid Dream when I run outta energy
fervent jasper
If running BOTE, do you use it after vendetta to ensure crits during your vanish/master assassin window?
dense axle
cobalt pelican
with blood you basically just move the vanish from before the tb
to after the tb (and then blood)
and env mut env in the window
serene basin
I usually say trust the sims, but that looks fundamentally wrong @dense axle idk
cobalt pelican
what is wrong about it
dense axle
what looks wrong about it?
dense axle
yeah, I just throw that in with Vendetta
marble elm
what's wrong with that berserking
dense axle
I dont care to have berserking on a different keybind from my vendetta
cobalt pelican
lose one hasted np tick for it to be inside tb
like i say it's probably still better
vocal lion
Mastery in the new priority? why?
cobalt pelican
the way it's listed
dense axle
!stats @vocal lion
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > vers => mastery > haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
woven summit
mastery the new priority I guess because you got too much energy regen with lucid and also you got haste with iris minor and haste blood minor
vocal lion
ooh i see
serene basin
is that cast sequence assuming you don't crit the first mut @dense axle ?
serene basin
i see
dense axle
I guess that makes sense
woven summit
where do you see the opener on the sim?
dense axle
so really it's 4+ CP -> Rupt -> Garrote
I wonder why you dont just do 4+ CP into Garrote then Rupture
extra CP from Garrote
fervent jasper
So with MA you do mut, rup, gar, vendetta, tb, mut, blood, vanish, envenom, mut, envenom?
dense axle
so Mut, garrote, rupt
cobalt pelican
you're missing a mutilate in the first 3 globals dem
but besides that more or less, yes
acoustic atlas
ez 40k patchwork sim
dense axle
@fervent jasper mut, mut, rupt, garrote, vendetta, vanish, TB, mut, env, mut is wha tmy sim said. There's a pic of it up above
cobalt pelican
that's without blood
dense axle
@woven summit Someone explained how to see that to me just above my post
cobalt pelican
with blood it changes slightly
fervent jasper
@cobalt pelican I was assuming I got lucky and got 4 combo points off of my 1st mutilate from stealth
cobalt pelican
even if you get 4 on the first one and rupture 2nd global
you still mutilate
on the 3rd global
or there's no gain from doing this
and it's better to garrote mur rupt as per old opener
valid spoke
Do you use Potion of Focused Resolve even if you don't have R3 blood?
woven summit
@dense axle found it, thanks!
cobalt pelican
you do not use focused resolve probably ever right now
dense axle
probably overcaps our Crit with MA
@serene basin you arent sposed to do the second if it crits
fervent jasper
It has to crit to get 4 CPs
dense axle
thats why you do 2 if it doesnt crit
serene basin
thats not what i'm saying
dense axle
you basically want a rupture that will last your whole vendetta it looks like
valid spoke
Focused resolve has ramp up time, which means the MA window is irrelevant
cobalt pelican
you will end up overcapping slightly if you crit literally everything
serene basin
i'm saying you mut to 4, rupture, then mut to 4 again
cobalt pelican
ie
serene basin
your forced to envenom before your first vendetta
valid spoke
You want it for the rest of the opener
cobalt pelican
mut to 4, rupt, mut 4 gar (5) you would flex and vend tb blood vanish env mut env
fervent jasper
Nameless says do 2 mutilated even if you get 4 combo points from the 1st one
cobalt pelican
after rupture, that is
fervent jasper
Ah ok
cobalt pelican
the goal is just to fit 2 mutilates into your 3 ma globals
how you do so depends on your cp gain
fervent jasper
Mutilate rupture mutilate
cobalt pelican
obviously
fervent jasper
Garrote
dense axle
cause of DD? @cobalt pelican
sturdy dust
Because of MA
cobalt pelican
dd contributes to it i'd imagine, but it's just an overall gain to delay garrote to outside the window it seems
sturdy dust
You want both Mutilates to crit
fervent jasper
@dense axle 's sim tells him to follow his master assassin window with things other than envenom, mutilate envenom
dense axle
mine says Mut Env Mut, not that much different
cobalt pelican
if you do not have blood you will still vanish tb mut env
which is the same as last tier
sturdy dust
Why does every sim have the rotation going Vanish - > Toxic Blade instead of the other way around?
dense axle
first one is TB Mut Env
fervent jasper
@dense axle it is different though, youd rather get 2 crits on envenom in that window than 2 on mutilate and 1 envenom
cobalt pelican
because none of these sims have blood, it's only been shown that it's a gain to go for 2 big envenoms in ma when you have blood due to the likelihood of hitting the 4cp mut being much greater
dense axle
@sturdy dust so TB can crit. It does quite a bit of dmg on it's own
cobalt pelican
if you do not have blood it's still better on average to have a tb, a mut, and an envenom, or 2 muts and an envenom in that window at a push
because at lower crit ratings if you go for 2 envs
and hit
vanish env 2cp mut env
you do nothing
sturdy dust
Okay, understood. I've been doing Vendetta TB Vanish Envenom Mutilate Envenom
fervent jasper
@sturdy dust me too
dense axle
thats what nameless is saying
fervent jasper
But I have blood
dense axle
thats good if you have BOTE
cobalt pelican
with blood and ma we're pushing close to 100% crit now which is why if you have that essence you can go for the 2 fat envenoms
dense axle
I didnt wanna farm that honor, so my BOTE is rank 1
cobalt pelican
actually probably above 100% in some peoples case, i'd think
sturdy dust
That's helpful, thank you.
valid spoke
Even without blood it's not bad since DD hits like a truck
Vanish -> Tb is just a safer overall bet
fervent jasper
So with Blood. Mut, rup, mut, gar, vendetta, TB, mut, blood, vanish, envenom, mut, envenom
?
dense axle
that seems to work at least, dunno if it's best
cobalt pelican
yes that is correct
fervent jasper
Looks like a potential waste of TBs combo point
cobalt pelican
it will flex ever so slightly
if you crit every mut in your life
you WILL overcap in a best case scenario
that's unavoidable
but if you crit every mut you obviously wouldn't be putting a mut after tb
fervent jasper
So even at 5 CPs still pop TB there?
dense axle
you nee3d the buff more than the CP
dense axle
30% dmg on your Envs
atomic saddle
how do you use Guardian of Azeroth Essence? It desyncs with vendetta, I wonder its the best still
dense axle
on CD I imagine. During opener probably early because of the dmg boost
atomic saddle
and then at 3 min without anything and with 4th vendetta again... makes sense
cobalt pelican
it's not buffed by vendetta
so it's not really all that important to line up with anything specifically
atomic saddle
but the essence gives haste and dm gincrease to the target
dense axle
anyone know the essence ID for Condensed life force?
wowhead says 55, but raidbots says thats invalid
cobalt pelican
wowhead says 14
so
probably 14
and i guess that's correct re the stacking haste at rank 3
dense axle
huh, lookin in wrong spot then
cobalt pelican
but you're never going to hold it
dense axle
rank 3 gives that 5% dmg boost though, youll want that in vendetta
cobalt pelican
eh actually maybe, given you likely only get 2 casts on a lot of bosses
probably the kind of thing that depends a lot on fight length
ie <6min use with 1st and 3rd vendettas
and >6min on cd
cobalt pelican
seems right, it'll always be a prevendetta global
dense axle
and then just on CD or with TB later in the fight
cause it wont line up with Vendetta again until 6 minutes
cobalt pelican
will almost 100% depend on fight length
dense axle
and other mechanics like ashvane's shield
cobalt pelican
like on a 5min sim it's almost guaranteed to be better to use prevend on the opener and prevend on the 3rd vend at 4mins
but whether it's just implemented to press on cd
i'm not sure
dense axle
that sim says at 3 min to use it again on CD
dunno if thats best, but thats what it says
cobalt pelican
the best way to do it
arctic walrus
Why do I sim so low
cobalt pelican
assuming you don't know fight length
dense axle
but yeah, saving for 1 min if you arent goign to get 3 in the fight seems like a good move
cobalt pelican
cause you're fugin weak vel
woven summit
38k is not bad lol
vocal lion
Bis Escences for Raid?
vocal lion
ty
bronze topaz
is ruptering a dying target while the energy bar is empty to get energy through venomous wounds a prio target dmg increase?
dense axle
I feel like that's REALLY hard to quantify Wanntan
so probably best to just Env it or Rupt another target
cobalt flint
depends on what time frame 'dying' is really. Also remember you need both poison and bleed, so just tab rupturing might not always cut it. You can do a low CP rup for this I suppose but yeah if it will die in 3 seconds, no
dense axle
youre still wasting the energy to apply the Rupt, even if you get some back
cobalt flint
if the add dies in 8 seconds for example
1-2 cp rupture will prob be worth it
since we dont have any timeframe whatsoever, hard to say
cobalt pelican
i think it's a little low too vel
since i have similar gear to you but no crucible legs etc
but i guess i have a better dagger
bronze topaz
thanks guys, looks like i do 'what feels best'
thought there could be a spreadsheet for this
dense axle
even if there was, it would be annoying to follow it during a chaotic add fest
cobalt pelican
and you have 430 font too
fervent jasper
dense axle
just Rupt everything at high health and Env everything else or your priority target
cobalt flint
can you move while channeling Font?
cobalt pelican
n
fervent jasper
I have 1 overwhelming power, rank 2 lucid, and 17% haste and haste is still my highest simmed ST stat?
cobalt flint
I don't understand this trend of forcing melee to use channeling shit
I find it very annoying :/
cobalt pelican
i think they just want trinkets to have high upsides and annoying downsides like lurkers (but lurkers wasnt annoying)
fervent jasper
And with only 22% crit too
cobalt flint
well even the mechagon one is annoying
dense axle
lurkers was annoying for world questing lol
cobalt flint
even though you can move
cobalt pelican
i kinda like the mechagon trinket after playing with it for a few days
cobalt pelican
it fills a nice hole
that's usually empty
i can imagine as a war rior or some other gcd capped class it's actual rage though
rough agate
Im confused why ive lost 1k dps
dense blaze
the trinket is perfect right at the end of vendetta
cobalt flint
does it get boosted by vendetta btw?
dense blaze
iris nerf
dense axle
nope, I tested it yesterday
cobalt flint
i have the coral trinket, which is by far my best according to sims, not sure how reliable
dense axle
tail end of vendetta is just a dead period with no energy
cobalt flint
but it makes using the other trinket really difficult
due to every time getting the buff and reapplying you get the 20s cd
I play with lucid dreams so that doesn't happen to me either
I end up delaying it way too long, then it coincides with TB
it's just a nightmare 😛
tho i should unlock level 55 soon then I guess bote will overtake and i can breathe again
vocal lion
why everyone use mechagon trinket?
cobalt flint
because it's just so fun
dense axle
@cobalt flint only if you have rank 3 bote I think
dense axle
I have Rank 3 Lucid in my major, Rank 2 worldvein and it sims higher than bote rank 1
dunno about rank 2
cobalt flint
I just assumed it would be better seeing as almost everyone uses it on logs
they all have rank 3?
well my lucid is also rank 1 so there's that lol
should be 2 soon as well though
I';ve been slacking a bit :>
vocal lion
@cobalt flint how?
cobalt flint
how what?
gray citrus
inkpog doing more than lurkers
vocal lion
@cobalt flint the tricket do a lot of damage?
cobalt flint
just look at the sim linked a bit above
3 cast 600k damage
I would call that a lot
vel's sim
cobalt pelican
somehow i went from 1k below vel
to like
1k above vel
in 1 day
my power grows
vocal lion
oooh Cyclotronic Blast
cobalt flint
What I mean by the way is the 'punch card' which
yeah sorry
i didnt realize you didnt get that part
lol
vocal lion
ye ty xD
arctic walrus
Dude I swear I'm not seeing something
cosmic pier
no
arctic walrus
It should be higher
dense axle
they chagned the trinkets and azerite to be white list for what affects them
royal torrent
that sim has murloc 385 cloak on lol
arctic walrus
dense axle
so they dont interact with specs much anymore
rustic fox
From my understanding the red punchcard is still BiS unless it’s TF or WF with similar stats. As far as the iris goes, I don’t enjoy it with channeling either. Feels in-rogue like.
rigid mango
What, cyclo's BiS compared to other trinks or just other red punchcards?
strange python
Why would Subterfuge sim better than Master Assassin for pure ST fights even tho i cannot take advantage of multi Garrote? i always assumed MA was meant for 1 Target while Subt was meant for 2 unstackeable targets, could anyone explain to me ?
cobalt flint
when is it better without garrote?
charred moat
rigid mango
yes
arctic walrus
@cobalt pelican how's the power growing going
cobalt flint
I saw everyone using the superior agi pots on the logs I checked
but i didnt check too many i suppose
cobalt pelican
arctic walrus
cobalt pelican
not gonna play my 415 font on any fucking fight ever for like
100 simdps
i'd rather my lurkers kill me
gray citrus
@arctic walrus how are u simming so high?
fringe lily
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
dense axle
@gray citrus lol, they're agonizing over simming so low right now
rigid mango
look at his gear
It's not like he magically got an extra X dps
Just look at the gear and understand why he sims so high
rustic fox
@cobalt flint I thought using the 20% crit was nice with the essence(can’t remember name) that does 300% increase damage if critted.
dense axle
good traits, high ilvl, loooots of sockets
cobalt flint
mm, I'm not even aware of that one 😛
gray citrus
idk i just dont get stat weights rn. i sim higher crit, but in top gear it puts all my gems/chants haste even with the checkbox clicked
saying to replace existing
cobalt pelican
stat weights suk and rainbow gems also suk
just use some common sense based on top gear
if there are a few variations that are all just
5 haste g ems
and 1 crit
just gem haste
dense blaze
Just go full crit
cobalt pelican
like you're not gonna die with having 1 gem wrong nor is it why you're simming low
cobalt pelican
ilvl is irrelevant
gray citrus
is it the sockets then?
fringe lily
nothing personal or double dose for m+ ?
cobalt pelican
you can have as many fat 455 unsocketed pieces as you want and do nothing
cobalt flint
if you imagine what the software is trying to do to determine the dps of each stat when they are all so interrelated, you appreciate how difficult it is to get it accurate and hence why most of the time it's really not accurate
rigid mango
@fringe lily neither, but NP is better
fringe lily
just the gear i have if i want to run with 2xSS and 2xEB
gray citrus
yeah i sort of get it. its all kinda new to me so apologies for the noobyness
cobalt flint
no worries ^^
gray citrus
ill go with what my stat weights say and try to get some better shit
cobalt flint
it's still good as a guideline at the start
gray citrus
yeah
marble elm
triple ttk best single target setup 
cobalt flint
because simming for every little thing all the time might probably not be so fun, but it gives you an idea kinda
if it's a possible upgrade
rough agate
did anyone notic a pretty signifcant dps loss today in sims
dense axle
I re-sim my stat weights every 5-10 ilvl
rough agate
I lost about 800
dense axle
other than that I just forget about it
rigid mango
Stat weights are overrated
cobalt pelican
there was a bug yesterday re font and haste values
which was fixed
if you lost a significant amount chances are you fell into that category
rough agate
yeah i have font
rigid mango
That'll be why
rough agate
So I was simming for more than i should?
cobalt pelican
yes
rigid mango
Yep
rough agate
damn lol
cobalt pelican
koji ruined christmas
dense axle
I mean at the EOD you still do the same DPS in game
cobalt pelican
peehands
rigid mango
People peaking past 41k 
cobalt flint
well it's good if you think about it, now you will be less disappointed when you can't reach the sim 😛
rough agate
true
dense axle
lol @cobalt flint
cunning blaze
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
tacit plinth
seems odd that everyones simming lucid higher but BotE is outperforming it
well maybe odd isn't the right word but still
ember rover
New sims show blood of the enemy super close to condensed life force
rigid mango
Sayiong everyone sims lucid higher is mad.
cobalt flint
mine sim significantly higher, but I'm hoping that is due to having no minor essence at all
bote seems much more fun than lucid to use
cobalt pelican
both are pretty nice to be honest
at least compared to guardian
i'd rather smash my buttons harder for more damage than it just appear
rigid mango
^
cobalt flint
yeah lucid is OK, i kinda liked it when i first got it, but crit is more fun imo
and the opener dilemma is nto there with bote
well vanish one rather not opener
pine grove
BotE feels better to use as you don't risk wasting energy, but eff farming 50k honor to get rank 3. Life-Force is dull, but at least it's less grindy to acquire.
woven summit
Guys I make one stat weight, it says my rings are better, then i do another and pawn says to put back the other rings on
cobalt flint
and it doesn't count arena, that's my biggest irritation with that
woven summit
and in a loop like that
cobalt flint
you have to do bgs ies what not
woven summit
yeah pawn is shit
cobalt flint
when you gain/lose a stat other stats are affected by this storms
woven summit
yeah true
cobalt pelican
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eoatj9gCw5XxGPxukWVUjh this is what my essences have looked like more or less consistently all week, minus iris being fucked when haste was
rigid mango
Stat weights doesn't think what you lose from gaining
woven summit
but it's confusing at times, you don't know what to d
rigid mango
If that makes sense
pine grove
Yeah. I mean, I hate arena even more than BGs but it's not fair that there's that arbitrary exclusion.
woven summit
yeah i'll just compare the rings on top gear
rigid mango
Top gear takes into account what you'll lose when equipping
cobalt flint
is it possible to sim for essences you haven't obtained yet?
aha nevermind, there's an advanced control there
scratch that
cobalt flint
so if you do it via the advanced controls for essences it doesn't do that automatically?
cobalt pelican
there's just a string at the top of your simc input
that has all the essences you have
add/remove/modify as you please
gray citrus
im actually simming higher with r3 lucid than r3 blood for some reason
hardy mural
is this benthic boots w/o socket is better than 445 still
can't seem to find socketed ones 😦
cobalt flint
non-upgraded you mean?
hardy mural
yea
rigid mango
Don't upgrade if not socketed
hardy mural
the crit ones without the socket
cobalt flint
prob not, upgraded probably yes, is it worth spending pearls on it, doubtful
dense axle
I bet we were seeing so much Bote in the logs because rank 3 lucid was sorta time gated and bote rank 3 was farmable
rigid mango
But Bote r3 is arguably better
hardy mural
lmao
rigid mango
cobalt flint
ouch :F
lone junco
big lesson here. If results are weird, they might be weird. @civic palm
rigid mango
depends on person it seems
lone junco
I really enjoy that graph btw.
rigid mango
Same 
cobalt flint
how do you guys sim a fight with bunch of adds coming in
is hectic addcleave close to a resemblance?
whenever i tried it it had a post note saying too many errors in this sim or something like that
lone junco
@cobalt flint you doing boss with cleave or m+?
cobalt flint
boss with cleave
pine grove
Oh dang. 425 Vim's belt w/ socket blows regular 430 Azshara out of the water. I mean, when I think about it it makes sense but I didn't expect it initially.
cobalt flint
before azshara
rigid mango
Zaqul?
cobalt flint
ya
rigid mango
You ignore adds there too
pine grove
Yeah. You don't really bring sin for the cleave.
rigid mango
cobalt flint
that hectic add cleave sim just doesnt work i guess or im doing something wrong
rigid mango
Problem pressing blade flurry?
cobalt flint
nah with the sim
rigid mango
Why are you simming hecticaddcleave anyways
cobalt flint
curiosity i suppose
faint harness
I dont understand how ppl have issues with zaqul adds
faint harness
Well you're not the first one to talk about zaqul adds
hollow junco
for my guild it was just derping for a few pulls until people realized how much pad value the adds provide
cobalt flint
i guess its not the adds being up but not properly threat managed
hollow junco
then they started to fall over near instantly
cobalt flint
😄
rigid mango
Frost dmhg
gray citrus
ahh okay
marble elm
ancient onyx
guys do u think we'll keep using Bote instead of rank 3 worldvein?
crisp steppe
the major from worldvein is trash
ancient onyx
minor ofc, and main lucid
crisp steppe
thats not an ofc situation. for minor theres a couple options depending on the fight and what essence u have available
just sim and use some critical thinking. lots of fights might not be good for worldvein. especially if theres not too many ppl running it
bleak spoke
If you don’t want to think critically just check Warcraft logs
For boss dmg if you want to prog and overall if you want to parse
tacit plinth
I wonder if TTK is going to outscale DD?
or has it already I dont know honestly. I thought DD was still simming higher
rigid mango
I doubt ttk outscales dd with how stupidly good dd is
crisp steppe
https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-levels/1t-t24-assassination @tacit plinth thats the default t24 setup with either benthic gear or 445 mythic
its very solid but its not quite DD
tacit plinth
is that 3 SS accurate?
cobalt pelican
yes
but just consider the context of the bar
you have to drop tb for exsang (a net loss in most cases), play subterfuge (a current net loss)
the bar literally just says, if you have subt and exsang ss scales the best with item level
which is more or less common sense
tacit plinth
I might just temporarily make that switch , i just picked my rogue back up and I'm super behind so I dont have ideal AZ pieces but i do have 3SS 2DD atm
cobalt pelican
it does not mean you should be aiming to play subterfuge exsang
if your gear makes it so go for it
crisp steppe
@cobalt pelican yo lmao. why does echoing blades add any dmg on a 1t boss fight 🤔
cobalt pelican
i imagine it's something along the lines of
cobalt pelican
so it gains damage per point after 2 because the apl actually presses the button
cobalt pelican
instead of not
crisp steppe
but I imagine thats still a dps loss
cobalt pelican
yes, it most definitely is
crisp steppe
whatever anyway
cobalt pelican
it'll be some weird minor thing that should never be considered either way
i really don't like charts like these cause they're more or less useless besides giving a very brief at a glance visual of what pieces 'might' be good
it's kinda weird that herodamage defaults to by ilvl rather than by stack now too
crisp steppe
I like using them for alts, for getting some insight into whats trash
cobalt pelican
cause i doubt anyone cares what the gain is of a trait by ilvl
oh yeah they let you know what the full rightoff traits are
and roughly what the maybe good ones are
which is fine, i guess
but that's about the extent of it
crisp steppe
also enjoyable for showing people that don't understand simming at all whether something might be good
oh look at this bar its big
dark crag
Look at my bar, it's huuuuuge
slender urchin
How are we s upposed to use Coral with Font of Power? The pins say to stack and use with vendetta, but that disables us from using font of power for 20 seconds
If I'm going by raidbots APL and sample sequence, it only uses it once at 23 seconds in a 4:24 fight
kindred cedar
What traits do i want as an assa rogue in M+ ?
3x SS and 1x EB ?
cobalt pelican
i don't think anyone has specifically done testing (at least not publicly, maybe the tc guys have done some) for font+coral vice so you're basically going to have to wing it for now
rigid mango
Atleast one ss and one eb
cobalt pelican
one would assume font takes prio on your vend window
sturdy dust
3x TTK, 2 SS 1 EB.
rigid mango
Any mix of eb/ttk/ss
cobalt pelican
and coral has to fit elsewhere
spitballing it'd probably be alternating tbs or something
but i don't think there's anything conclusive on it
crisp steppe
@cobalt pelican maybe something nice can be done with condensed life force since that one is on 3 min yeah
cobalt pelican
maybe, yeah
slender urchin
Thanks @cobalt pelican. I've been fonting with vendetta and coralling on CD beyond that...but its very awkward. I just got a 440 Tiny Electromental which is 100 dps worse than 415 Font, but I may use it anyway because it's just so much harder to optimize
cobalt pelican
for the mean time i'd definitely take a 100 st dps loss for a trinket that has aoe value and makes the rotation smoother
i'm sure some actual usage will be tested as more people get their hands on them
crisp steppe
I imagine font has more value from the on use than coral though yeah
so some fights u might prefer doing more burst
seems good otherwise
slender urchin
Currently raidbots APL sims it this way:
Font every 2 minutes pre-vendetta/vanish
Apply razor coral at :23 and forget about it
cobalt pelican
and use 20sec before expected time to kill?
slender urchin
Sorry, it also applies it at 4:26 here
cobalt pelican
426 sounds about right
basically using it as late in the fight as you can
after the last vend window
slender urchin
Wouldn't it fall off at 2:23 though?
The debuff is only 2 minutes
Or does it refresh on application of a stack?
slender urchin
Got it
slender urchin
So I guess you use it as a glorified proc for 9000 physical damage
slender urchin
And then you just consume it end-of-fight for 100% crit
lone junco
looks like CLF came down about 4%
slender urchin
when I run my 440 electromental and 430 coral I had 26 stacks to eat for vendetta...almost 80% crit
lone junco
patent topaz
wiping on azshara normal all night, feels bad man
scarlet sequoia
vafan is that dps
cobalt pelican
powerful gamers
patent topaz
I dont even know
cobalt pelican
powerfully gaming
scarlet sequoia
i swear u do 20k dps just auto attacking and having your trinkets etc proc
patent topaz
its a raid from a bunch of raid teams from the guild
pine ore
what is the optimal potion for assa st? the crit one or fire dmg
drifting cloud
fire dmg
last mortar
does anyone know what punchcards to use in the trinket?
scarlet sequoia
yeah
stark oxide
cyclotronic from rep, and sim yourself to determine yellow card, since you get to choose stat.
craggy notch
Is this benthic piece a BIS?
cobalt pelican
n they are like
3rd best bracers you can get
and quite a bit worse than the other 2 above
buoyant kraken
Which essences are bis atm?
daring basalt
check pins
marble elm
@lavish river triple ttk or what https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bze9nfnJPgnikPY6sfM97g
marble elm
hmm?
arctic walrus
Imagine getting gear 
marble elm
in your offhand?
arctic walrus
Ya
marble elm
offhand weapon dps isnt very valuable
if your offhand has a socket
its probably better lower
cobalt pelican
having triple ttk as your highest simming set is the good shit
you get to be efficient AND see big numbers
arctic walrus
wtb rank 3 blood
jovial tulip
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
magic briar
Hello peeps. I'm fairly new to Rogue, and I was wondering if there were some Benthic pieces that's "required" to get. Thanks for any answers.
echo cargo
When the other rogue in your guild gets a dagger from chest, runs two keys, 445 dice.
😢
red plaza
I don't know if I'm up to grind keys again for the same trinket 3 times in a row
urban junco
I feel you
stark oxide
I got a 440 galecallers, not sure how I feel
echo cargo
Idk i'm tilted at the existence of benthic
sand granite
What minor ess do you guys like
rough agate
whichever one is simming best for me
opaque tree
Will you guys be saving your titan residuum for pieces like gorak tul's mantle 445 ilvl or going for 430 at the moment???
scarlet sequoia
yeah
rough agate
im saving but not for specific
rigid mango
Just RNG 445
rough agate
yep
rigid mango
Ah
gray citrus
if i sim higher with lucid r3 major do i just do that
rough agate
saying the item is pretty specific 😛
rigid mango
Why wouldn't you @gray citrus
rough agate
yeah i would Anodyne
rigid mango
They're both very close.
gray citrus
ohh
rigid mango
If something sims better it's better, no?
severe bough
i sim higher with blood rank 3
rigid mango
Seems like some sort of fallacy there
gray citrus
yeah i guess so
rough agate
I used to be bote and lucid and now ive gotten some more gear and am lucid and worldvein
gray citrus
my logic is, just do what the best players do and copy them, but it seems like these sims really are different for everybody
shrewd night
@rigid mango Font is big boi trinket btw jesus h christ 
rigid mango
Honestly, I'm not sure yet
patent topaz
we did it boys, we killed azshara normal. Only beat 2nd place by 4k
rough agate
font is still not able to be used prepull in sims right, thats why its being used 3 globals in
shrewd night
Dw, Ill get 455 dagger tomorrow 
arctic walrus
If I did it, you guys can too
rigid mango
I jsut want a weap + a coral
marble elm
i coined 1st boss
rigid mango
and then I'm fucking good
rough agate
Im using a 395 notorious ring cus it has a socket AMA
nimble tartan
in 3 weeks i still have 415 dagger i feel it bro
arctic walrus
I coined first boss too, how I got the dagger
marble elm
i got azerite
rough agate
what are you at
marble elm
and 450 bracers that i cant wear
rigid mango
My m+ spam will get me there
Dude I have no clue waht I sim
Low, is the answer
I don't even have r3 lucid yet
rough agate
idk exactly how r3 worldvein is acquired but im doing the mission for it i think
rigid mango
weekly missions iirc
gusty ice
chest gave me 450 spyglass with a socket. Could be worse I guess.
rigid mango
Meh, gonna be using life force + lucid soon enough
arctic walrus
You have a quest at 2/3 in your log right now
rigid mango
👀
arctic walrus
that's what rewards it
stark oxide
When you do your third island weekly you get a treasure map for it. On top of the old treasure map
rough agate
nah i did it and it gives you another table mission
arctic walrus
Well, I'm pretty sure it'll unlock more missions
stark oxide
So basically you'll have two treasure maps and you have to pray you use the right map.
I'm locked into 5k gold for a couple days before I can start the worldvein mission
arctic walrus
If you read it, it'll probably have flavor text related
How trusting are we with loyal to the end sims
arctic walrus
It's only good if your group participates
fiery hazel
its only good if your group participates and are close to you.
minor thicket
Needs some help guys. I don’t u swear and the essence stuff
These are the essences I have what would be best for raiding / m+
sullen sphinx
would this change if i had r3 BotE?
fiery hazel
first off. Did you take picture of your screen, or is that an awkward SS?
rigid mango
Picture.
minor thicket
Took a pic of my screen
rigid mango
fiery hazel
quick answer to the first question is for raiding use lucic major, and iris minor. Swap them for M+
Blood you would have to sim
shrewd night
@rigid mango Imagine not having font nor coral 
rigid mango
@shrewd night imagine not having jaina mount 
silver musk
yo guys how to use razor coral in the most beneficial way?When i must pop crit stacks
shrewd night
Low blow dude 
arctic walrus
"not a setup im seeing much of on the logs"
That's litereally bis set up for a lot of rogues atm
arctic walrus
Do sims assume other people have it up?
rigid mango
@shrewd night 
arctic walrus
Oh i see it
nimble tartan
like one of my pieces sims like 40 more at 4 people
so ima just wear my other shit since idk whos wearin it
arctic walrus
The mythic pieces are a considerable upgrade over my 420s so idk
marble elm
@nimble tartan im using loyal
atomic saddle
Is the "Undulating Tides" sim done without ever dropping below 50% health btw?
nimble tartan
it's assuming you are never dropping
warm sable
I didnt play MA so stupid question when you using trinkets like Lurker and Poket ?
atomic saddle
And is 1 ttk alwys mandatory? I wonder why everone uses one
lusty narwhal
Because its good
summer marten
why do you regret that one
outer hatch
Is Conflict and Strife just a gag essence or am I missing something?
nimble tartan
cause im anti benthic bro
summer marten
ah, cant disagree with that... even after ive spent at least 300 manapearls trying to get that thing
stark oxide
C and S is a pvp essence at heart, and for our class it has little benefit in pve
patent topaz
is it just honor from bgs and islands for ranks of blood of the enemy?
warm sable
when do we use Pocket Sized trinket ????
stark oxide
once you get rank 1, yes
patent topaz
I have to do a pvp island still
summer marten
and brawl
stark oxide
you use pocket size trinket when you are low on energy and won't cap. This usually will be after your burst window, about 45 seconds into the fight, and every 2 minutes after
placid dawn
Do you guys use pocket trinket on add fights? like on azshara i find myself with no oportunities to use the trinket until like 2 minutes in
woven summit
do you use any punch cards for raiding?
stark oxide
@warm sable I don't know exactly when, I know it's used with Vendetta. Do a quick sim on raidbots, scroll down to the ability samnple sequence, and copy that opener.
placid dawn
i just macro lurkers with vendetta
stark oxide
how can there be no opportunities until 2 minutes in? You use it when low on energy. There are definitely moments you are low long before then. Especialy since you don't lust on pull
Especially with lots of movement in that fight, its a nice trinket to have. Not saying its best, but it definitely has value.
placid dawn
not really man, i dot both lovers and im pretty much never out of energy
i guess im not playing optimally somehow
stark oxide
I mean you have more energy on two targets, but two targets isn't enough to give you infinite energy
stable pine
Smash more buttons boo
patent topaz
when you run to kill the first crusher thing in p1 works out well
stark oxide
You can also use it when you swap to the hulk, or get targetted by spears
placid dawn
its not the infite thing, its that because of mechanics i find myself just moving and getting energy from just walking
stark oxide
So use it while you're walking. It's a ranged trinket
patent topaz
you can use it while walking
placid dawn
cant move while using it though right?
stark oxide
you can.
patent topaz
used to be able to cast abilities during channel as well I think? Definitely not now
stark oxide
yeah thats gone
stark oxide
the effect of puffer and frost is about twice as strong as Neris
placid dawn
i have 405 frost wrists and they are better than 430 socket wrists
rotund pier
oh wow
stark oxide
So if we say the effect of frost is worth ~20 ilvl, Neri is worth ~10
rotund pier
i finally got boots with socket, looted a crit/vese 450 wrist out of my box today.. sigh rng
stark oxide
I mean you can sim if youre 425 socketed Neri beats the 450 wrists
I'm betting it does
rotund pier
yea it prob does
stark oxide
They are still very good, just not bis
placid dawn
i used 400+ pearls on boots and nothing
stark oxide
I stopped counting
placid dawn
i got wrists from wq and what do you know, socket frost damage
stark oxide
I'm funneling pearls from 3 alts plus my rogues pearls and my only benthic socket was the Mrrl cloak
rotund pier
I wonder if the aoe belt is Overall better than the aberation belt, since its only on 2 bosses
thoughts
stark oxide
Yes, overall it's better
summer marten
got gloves from 1 token and boots from like 10, and no bracers from 70+ or so
stark oxide
On aberration fights the abby belt is just slightly better, not much at all
rotund pier
sweet
cinder relic
for mythic+ whats the ass rogue spec and azerite traits
cinder relic
@arctic walrus does that addon tell u what ones to use
arctic walrus
No just tool tips
stark oxide
3 ttk, 2 EB, 1 SS, or any combination of those if you can't do that. Second best stuff would be our single target traits, DD NP.
Usually run deeper strategem since energy isnt an issue on trash, and it gets you bigger envenoms and more frequent poison bombs
cobalt pelican
did you just have enough spare besides mythic piece next week to roll a 430 or wat
strange python
what mayor and minor essence is siming highest for us in raid?
stark oxide
thats a personal question, sim yourself.
arctic walrus
Yeah I had 38k
stark oxide
varies for everyone
arctic walrus
next week if I do a big key I'll have enough for a mythic anyway
cobalt pelican
i was gonna do the same but buying a 430 feels like a gamble i can only lose
and be depressed
atomic saddle
Can anyone clarify why we take Double Dose over Blightborne Infusion and why most rogues use 1x TTK? https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-levels/1t-t24-assassination
cobalt pelican
1ttk is because of overwhelming power, bbi isn't an accessible trait
realistically you only get bbi on goraks which doesn't share with dd anyway
polar forge
lol ik
stark oxide
Aberration belt isn't being calculated
cobalt pelican
most people will be using vim's on any fight that's not orgozoa/zaqul
arctic walrus
@marble elm Do you not have a coral or does font/cyclo sim better
stark oxide
Aberration is going to be like 400-500 dps gain over your 455 on abby fights
marble elm
i dont have coral
cobalt pelican
kinda wish i took into account how wonky the coral implementation was last week
i don't wanna go back and pug it to coin
kindred cedar
Is it 435 ilvl gear that drops end of dungeon if you complete a 10 key ?