what battle pots are we using for st now?
#assassination
drowsy totem
dense cedar
I really like how in BfA a lot of the rng power of legion stuff is now somewaht garenteed
empty tide
unbridled fury for heavy ST
dense cedar
like certain gear pieces having specific powers and the like
its a bit similar to trait drops rng but not as bad tbh
empty tide
i mean, its good now that you can buy it
dense cedar
ye
empty tide
if you played uldir, you might wanna kys
empty tide
if you spec didnt have your bis traits on raid, good luck getting them on chest
dense cedar
50 outlaw weapon drops and 0 daggers
empty tide
really hope raid essence gets nerfed, everyone using the same essence seems like archive from uldir all over again
raven locust
You dont like getting free stats for your guildie dying?
worn crag
Assa feels amazing in M? Right now 👌 first boss of Tol Dagor when adds spawn and you spread your AOE 💪
dense cedar
What's ur fav M+ dungeon to play as Assassin?
worn crag
I'm playing 3 x SS / 1 x TTK / 2 x EB
My biggest problem is that the Azerite pieces also best ones for ST so I need to reforge again for Raid -.-
Stupid that it costs gold
I like Sots and tol Dagor because you get instant invite 😂
dense cedar
I think I prefer Atal'Dazar overall
sharp lily
Anyone else have raidbots showing Azshara's trinket being trash now?
austere ruin
worn crag
No I don't but don't know how others play
faint harness
how come raid essence is so much better with MA?
cold rampart
whats the difference between rank 2 and 3 in lucid dreams?
only leech or is there something else
reef axle
Vers from minor
reef axle
major slot comes with minor.
cold rampart
huh?
reef axle
By 65, you have 1 major and 3 minors, the major slot is also a minor slot.
tropic ocean
@dense cedar freehold/atal
nimble tartan
#NERFBENTHIC
warm lintel
What are the best enchants on weps to use for assa atm?
tropic ocean
Force multi + your best simming one
vapid scarab
@cold rampart "that's it", the vers is quite strong btw
has like 80% uptime or some shit
junior hawk
Hi folks! New to the server. May I just ask how long you've played as rogue?
Its just been 1/2 myself . Went from being a fulltime healer, to become melee dmg 😃
1/2 year*
dusky moon
since 2005 on and off lol
steady grotto
just tried some sin in m+ felt pretty good
not sure what my prios for when to cast fok are though
i'm running two eb two ttk
fok from 2+?
dense cedar
from healer to rogue? sounds like me at Deathwing
vapid scarab
3 @steady grotto
steady grotto
okay cool
vapid scarab
2 only for 3 EB
steady grotto
should i be running 3 eb?
vapid scarab
and even then, you still mut if you need CPs
no
not really
even 1 is probably decent now
vapid scarab
you can't sim m+ as sin
steady grotto
yeah just posting it so you can see my setup more than anything
only one eb you reckon? and more ss?
vapid scarab
I mean
what you have is fine
2eb, 1 eb
really minor stuff that will change every dungeon
steady grotto
fair
steady grotto
does blightborne lose value in m+?
vapid scarab
don't think so
vapid scarab
well maybe slightly, because with EB you gen more CPs
so crit is slightly less desirable
vapid scarab
so crit is slightly less desirable
the more targets you have, the less you need to crit
tropic ocean
Just that a buff proc is not the best as you dont have constant dps uptime
vapid scarab
BB loses some value in m+ because there are more targets
vapid scarab
idk if crucible boots are the best choice for m+ either
or kimbuls
also get your neck up
slacker
signal summit
how good is the benethic gear for rogues? boots and bracers?
tropic ocean
Very good
steady grotto
oh yeah i was gonna ask too whether it's worth upgrading crit boots without a socket?
meager nebula
you can do a gear compare to see how a non socketed version holds up against other boots
tropic ocean
sim them against your alternative and you‘ll see
vapid scarab
personally I wouldn't want to waste pearls on something that isn't going to be best in slot
if I'm gonna spend that much upgrading then it better be the best
viscid shale
How much crit are we supposed to aim for now? Last patch you only wanted the base ammount on your neck right?
vapid scarab
the amount that you have from the gear your top gear sim tells you to have
floral shoal
(heroic only raider) now that I have socketed crit boots at 425, do I work on getting next ranks of essences or frost bracers?
stable oxide
Does Vendetta effect Focussing Azerite Beam and Pocket-sized computation device?
vapid scarab
No vendetta/MA/TB only affect rogue abilities
stable oxide
Cool thanks
pale knot
what essence are we running in m+ ? blood + lucid or ?
spice cloak
any reason to not be doing m+ as assassination?
vapid scarab
you like outlaw more
spice cloak
i dont like outlaw at all heh
glass matrix
This outlaw just has that edge in m+ with the simplicity and aoe
strange python
Anyone else have raidbots tell them to use Iris Major for single target?
opal viper
anyone knows the fastest way to get rank 3 BotE?
reef axle
bgs and weekly epic bg quests.
floral shoal
both cost manapearls, which first?
tropic ocean
essence doesn't cost mana pearls
solid nova
R3 lucid does
vapid scarab
I mean
lucid is one time purchase
bracers are repeated rerolls
I would make sure I have everything that is guaranteed to give me a dps increase before playing slot machine
floral shoal
Yeah I guess I'll upgrade Lucid dreams, probably more pearl efficient even with Alts providing some chances on bracers. Thanks
reef axle
With font, do we cast pre pull?
fast nacelle
does this fire potion sim properly? it sims 300 dps higher for me
bronze kelp
For this week? Lucid major/iris minor seems to be fine for kr
bronze kelp
Im running 3 TTK 2eb 1ss cause I lack more ss
strange python
so how is rog at 8.2
strange python
assa way to go i guess
bronze kelp
Outlaw and assa are top specs, don't know about sub
strange python
thats what i saw at warcraftlogs
silver musk
cool thanks
bronze kelp
Outlaw is a bit better atm, and is easier to equip at the start, but I guess with higher gear and the right azerite pieces, assa will pull ahead a bit
But that's just my 2 cents
strange python
never played outlaw 😦 xD
bronze kelp
For raid, sure assa is top atm
But m+ outlaw and assa are pretty even, with one spec a bit over the other
But lets wait for mythic progression and hotfixes after mythic opening
peak badger
outlaw performs better in mythic + imo
jagged yoke
whats assassination like in aoe atm?
shy axle
if you use 2 or 3 EB very good
I´d say it comes down to the azerite you have. Getting Assa azerite for myth is quite harder than getting 1x wits
jagged yoke
EB?
peak badger
echoing blade
jagged yoke
ahhh i see
keen spruce
outlaw got a pretty good buff with the wits change
jagged yoke
im guessing u need to drop the single target ones for that though?
keen spruce
since you're doing smaller pulls on average
pretty big 2 and 3 target dmg buff
if you run 3ss and as many echoing blades as you can grab you'll be fine with assa
also with the smaller pulls EB loses some value
twist the knife will do better on some weeks in some dungeons
jagged yoke
yeh iv been playing outlaw but sooo over it now
keen spruce
I'm doing fine as assa right now, keeping up with any group i run with
outlaw probably still has an edge but it's a little more balanced
jagged yoke
nice...im guessing assassination is better in single target?
keen spruce
yeah assa is probably top dog for ST
spice cloak
for sure
jagged yoke
also in the new raid whats the most single target and aoe fights? to check logs
urban plover
Does it make any sense that I sim highest with subterfuge and 0 ss?
keen spruce
I would think that master assassin should perform better
but who knows
also sims are for font of power are kind of borked
strange python
double dose the way to go ?
keen spruce
ST double dose is very strong
double dose and nothing personal
are kind of the go-to
strange python
arena too i guess
urban plover
lose 800 dps switching to ma
keen spruce
it might be because of lucid dreams?
idk
energy capping or something
what do your sims look like if you swap in rank 3 blood of the enemy major and lucid dreams minor?
jagged yoke
do u still do that thing where u dont envenom till the last moment of elaborate planning falling off like in legion?
keen spruce
yeah as long as you're not going to energy cap
jagged yoke
hmm might have to get a weakaura then
rigid mango
It's very minmax
keen spruce
it's less impactful than it was in legion because you're not quite as energy starved
jagged yoke
ah nice
rigid mango
And the amount of dps u gain is minimal
keen spruce
but it's worth doing if you've got nothing better to do lol
rigid mango
You should focus more on getting all your mutis inside env window
If you're running DD
jagged yoke
lol yeh i remember was pretty annoying sometimes
rigid mango
Tbh both windows come naturally most times
But for st with dd's, env is more impactful, for m+ you don't have dd and only play around EP
Regardless the damage you gain is neglegable and most of the time you'll get shit within your windows anyways
jagged yoke
yeah true, hopefully my azerite armor has some good traits from outlaw
rigid mango
jagged yoke
when i swap it lol
jagged yoke
also is there an easy way to get daggers? my top ones are so low...only have sword
jagged yoke
nice ty
cosmic pier
cap conquest for a 410
rigid mango
There're two bosses in EP that drop daggers, both super easy
jagged yoke
awesome
twin kite
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
jagged yoke
what azerite traits were the ones to stack?
rigid mango
For st? DD and NP
You can look at the logs over at WCL to see what people are genereally running
jagged yoke
ah yeh i see
wise whale
can someone tell me the flask food and potions that are best atm ? I cant find it in the guide
jagged yoke
im guessing only 1 ss
rigid mango
That's from the guide my man
Although pot is slightly incorrect, generally use unbridled fury on ST and agi on other
@jagged yoke SS is better on cleave
wise whale
great thx
rigid mango
If you can consistantly get off 2-3 garrotes per vanish cycle, ss becomes better
glad horizon
When is most optimal time to squeeze cyclotronic blast into the opener?
wise whale
sim yourself and look in the actions the sim does
rigid mango
I think what the sim does atm is using it when nothing's up and sub 80 energy
smoky crypt
Does anybody know if the buff to the crafted Mechagon trinket is live yet?
rigid mango
Wdym buff
cobalt pelican
like, live on live? it is
rigid mango
I don't think it's anything special
smoky crypt
prolly still not that great right
rigid mango
Sub par
glad horizon
Why does ability log when you sim yourself not use vanish at any point on raidbots
cobalt pelican
but it do
rigid mango
It do
tall narwhal
guys, regarding m+ - how do you handle tanks chain pulling mid combat
when i cant reset combat and get a restealth
my dps flops so hard
worn crag
Just get out of combat works fine for me
rigid mango
Either you prepare for it
aka set up more bleeds
or yuou tell your tank to pull correctly
worn crag
This week he shouldn't pull chain because of Affixe you'll loose time
wooden flax
is 3 stacks of EB still mandatory for M+?
worn crag
I had a random tank in TD I released all mobs at 2nd boss and he pulled boss. Boss got 3 stacks what an idiot
wooden flax
not the best damage, but I want to start doing M+ with Sin, and was wondering what traits to target
worn crag
2 x EB / 2x SS / 2x TTK
rigid mango
3 Eb is not mandatory
probably even sub par now
You don't pull as big anymore
DD should never be used in m+, ever
wooden flax
I don't have another headpiece yet
wooden flax
so that's what I am trying to gear for
Can I get away with 1 EB and 2 SS, and maybe 1 SoB?
shrewd plover
Someone made a BIS list for rogue assa with the bentic item ??
wooden flax
wowhead has them separate
tiny arrow
@shrewd plover 
shrewd plover
Thanks
tall narwhal
isnt DD useful on Tyrannical keys though ?
reef axle
Subterfuge the way to go for raid now?
stuck knoll
You basically never press mut in a dungeon
If you were looking for a ST trait to run on tyr I’d say NP is better
placid dawn
Guys, if we would use subterfuge without any SS traits just for the garrote damage, wouldnt it make more sense to use nightstalker for more rupture damage?
rigid mango
If you want tyr dmg, take an NP and more SS
sullen hollow
If you play Blood major essence how does the rotation go
rigid mango
@placid dawn yes, Sub is far better
shy axle
@reef axle not for St under normal conditions
placid dawn
i meant without SS
garrote with subterfuge is less damage than rupture with nightstalker
placid dawn
Im talking about the future when we won't run MA anymore cause we have so much crit
vestal wren
iirc the default t24 profile runs sub without ss
tribal marlin
I did a sim yesterday xD MA and SS was equal without SS for my profile Oo
vestal wren
so sub can be close to ma, but in general ma might be the better pick
placid dawn
sub is easier to play though
vestal wren
idk, i feel both are fairly easy to play out
placid dawn
and with ma theres a chance to get fucked by bad luck
wooden flax
i have 3 DD with MA in raid. Good damage ^
rigid mango
sub n ss are so close anyways
sooner or later we swap to that for ST
It looks like
cobalt pelican
what sub looks like currently on my character (equipped already)
i really should just buy raidbots bigboy edition
rigid mango
cobalt pelican
i guess you don't have to hold vendetta for vanish playing no ss subterfuge probably
so it and ma probably play more or less the exact same
wooden flax
I play MA. I vanish after TB to cast a 5 point env from stealth
it usually, if not always crits.
sullen hollow
you should vanish first with 3 combo points
then eb envenom
and pump another envenom
but im led to believe you do a different rotation if you play Blood for st
wooden flax
MA's buff is only 3 seconds tho?
wooden flax
eb + env from stealth, and MA is already gone...
lols, not with the GCD
or maybe my fingers are just bad
tribal marlin
I think MA sim equal to Sub for me because I have Razor Coral
Mostly I have 80% crit during BotE + Coral so
cobalt pelican
maybe, yeah
tribal marlin
Should try Nightstalker 😮
wooden flax
if you have razor coral buff up, maybe NS could be worth a shot?
sullen hollow
you should be able to make it
tribal marlin
I need to change a bit things in apl to make it use evenom insteed of Rupt xD
royal lantern
would be funny if nightstalker would be the good talent this tier
royal lantern
different talent for each raid on the same tier lel
wooden flax
I don't have 21% haste...maybe that is the problem
sullen hollow
well as there is no breakpoint for haste
cobalt pelican
even without coral though it's like
if i sim lucid major worldvein minor subterfuge is ahead by a bit
and isn't anywhere close playing blood/lucid
sullen hollow
different ranks?
cobalt pelican
no
sullen hollow
hm
cobalt pelican
sullen hollow
i currently play lucid major blood minor
because i dont know how to fill in the blood as major
cobalt pelican
what do you mean
sullen hollow
Or well I have an idea
cobalt pelican
gar mut rupt vend tb mut (blood) vanish env mut env
continue
and then if there's aoe alternatives to use blood on during the fight, like radiance it's potentially worth dropping it there though that's a lot less set in stone
sullen hollow
you wanna use vanish or blood before tb
cobalt pelican
no
sullen hollow
and why not
cobalt pelican
because math
sullen hollow
i dont see how that would add up
cobalt pelican
why not
cobalt pelican
i don't understand what you're asking
sullen hollow
he even combines them
ember saddle
So it seems Iris gets buffed by Nightstalker when cast from stealth, wouldnt have thought it. EDIT: cant reproduce, seemed to have been a odd fluke where the cast totaled 520k vs 220ish first time I tried it with NS.
rigid mango
Maybe he's not done the maths
cobalt pelican
do you want what is the best found option for your abilities
or to just press your buttons
sullen hollow
I want the opener with blood
cobalt pelican
you have been given the opener with blood
if you think there is a better alternative
feel free to modify the apl and post your findings in #tc-research
sullen hollow
idk, trying to find out if there is
cobalt pelican
looking at logs isn't going to lead you very far
rigid mango
You not trusting the maths and looking for other people who do the same thing as you
cobalt pelican
on thurs i was opening without stealth half of the time because of unbridled and still getting top10 on most fights
rigid mango
is the definition of confirmation bias
cobalt pelican
not sure it's THE PLAY though
cobalt pelican
may the big tbs bless you
sullen hollow
maybe they wont
cobalt pelican
subterfuge value goes up with font of power which makes sense i guess
i imagine it would go up further with precombat
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uNgL16nzEqi3eSn1VsW8Vc kinda cleaner since i actually reforged my gear
narrow lagoon
so which punchcards should I be going for
cobalt pelican
pretty much just cyclotronic and the fattest yellow you can find
knotty kindle
So guys, I know almost all top logs use the Lurkers trinket but I recently dropped an Ashvane trinket and it sims higher, any advices what to do here?
cobalt pelican
use it
it big
most people don't have it yet or undervalued it based on it not being implemented first week of clears
so i doubt many people even coined the boss or cared much
knotty kindle
It sims big as well, about 1k higher than lurkers lol
cobalt pelican
it does now yeah
waxen valve
@cobalt pelican i couldnt get your opener' math. Why waste 3 sec of tb window and not to put all into bote window?
crystal comet
Should I farm honor to level up Blood, or is rank 1 enough? BGs give me headache
faint harness
you kinda need rank 3
knotty kindle
It really isnt, r3 is the big one
knotty kindle
And if you check my sim that I just posted, lucid 3 and worldvein sims higher as well
sharp viper
lucid, memebeam
rigid mango
Blood is BiS until r3 life force
crystal comet
Sigh. How long does it take to gather the honor needed? I just never pvp so assume worst case scenario
shy axle
youll be fine with lucid/veine too if you really dont want to do it
sharp viper
you can get like 1k honor for the first win of the day in a bg, same with epic bg, you need 50k honor for rank 3 so that might take some time unless you want grind out bgs
also rated battlegrounds works as well so getting a first win of the day there is also a nice honor boost
royal lantern
queue as alliance/be alliance is a 50%honor boost too
royal lantern
cobalt pelican
@waxen valve i am not the person who did the math/sims to decide it but some basic common sense reasons might be: blood3 crit damage window is only 5 seconds, which limits the amount of globals that can fit into it, getting tb on cooldown as soon as possible etc
wooden flax
I realise I never understood how FoK and EB work together... so FoK hit once per target? And EB triggers on the first 5 crits... so would that mean I need at have at least 5 targets for EB to trigger?
wooden flax
got it. thx for explaining
nocturne jetty
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
lone mirage
Hi guys,
With little change u told me yesterday im now around 27k overall in m+ ( 7-9 key)
This is always low for 414ilvl but this is far better,
My stats are : cs: 32
Hast : 15
mast: 25
Guess mastery is too low ?
strange python
Anyone know the chance for the benthic waist to socket?>
twin kite
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
tawny shell
So what caused SS to start simming better on ST? More secondary stats?
hollow stone
@strange python same chance as anything to socket but there's only 2 belts in the benthic pool to pull from making it statistically the easiest one to get
I dont think ss is "bad" on st, but its not your go-to. The trait on bloodmallet shows with xsng but xs is still shit so idk
cobalt pelican
probably just something along the lines of like
uldir had reorigination array which insanely inflated how much haste we had relative to the tier
and now we're hitting pretty comfy haste levels naturally
so exsang might actually be in the playable tier again (one can hope)
molten mirage
iv been using Azshara's font of power on 6 or 7 sec on pull timer and rockin it hard
allows for golden plumage for 2nd toxic blade too
neon sedge
Opener/energy question with subfuge : on large pack I’m opening up with garrote on 3 rupture on 2 targets then going into fan of knifes with envenom. Is this right? Trying to keep energy up to fan
Echo traits
bleak spoke
if you have more than 11% haste you only need 3 g 1 r
molten mirage
i do 3 empowered garrotes and 1 normal on the fourth mob keep ruputre up on all of them and spam fan of kives into envenoms on big health targets
but on m+ i use crimson tempest too
the aoe execute bleed triggering elaborate planning is to clutch
neon sedge
I hear poison bomb is the go to
molten mirage
not imo
i do more dps in high m+ with crimson tempest than poison bomb
by a large margin
give it a shot see how ya like it
neon sedge
Sure will, how do u use crimson? On cd?
bleak spoke
crimson tempest is lower dpet than just spamming fok
molten mirage
refresh at 3-6 sec
arctic walrus
CT is pad
bleak spoke
with like 2 fok traits
arctic walrus
Worthless on boss fights too
molten mirage
again were talkin about m+
arctic walrus
yeah, so am I
bleak spoke
i feel like i should change my name to Hi 3500 io here
bleak spoke
so ppl don't argue with me kappa
bleak spoke
no one argues with seli :^)
but he's also always right 😃
really though
ct does less damage than spamming fok
rigid mango
^
bleak spoke
like look at the sims
molten mirage
you move in m+ do you not?
rigid mango
It's just flat out worse
bleak spoke
you do move in m+ but that makes ct worse
molten mirage
not at all
bleak spoke
and mob gathering makes ct worse
neon sedge
I was surprised with his traits last stream. I thought he would be using 3 EB this week
molten mirage
CT is a bleed
bleak spoke
cuz your first four globals is g g g ct
rigid mango
it doesn't give energy
bleak spoke
so if your tank hasn't gathered by the 4th global
molten mirage
poison bomb is focused on one spot
bleak spoke
you're kinda cooked
bleak spoke
it's ct vs more casts of fok
rigid mango
CT does less
CT is litearlly just losing dps on a gcd
when you can press fok
Why would you ever flat downgrade dps 
molten mirage
your missing the point
arctic walrus
bUt iT's a BleEd dOoD
molten mirage
how can it do less dps when its just a bleed adding to yourr dps while you spam FON?
hello?
bleak spoke
using fank of knives
bleak spoke
you can't fok when you press ct
the highest damage button there is fok
so you lose damage
rigid mango
I bet 3.5k m+ player
bleak spoke
L0L
molten mirage
how can adding a bleed to your FON spam lower your dps?
bleak spoke
because you HAVE TO USE A GLOBAL TO APPLY IT
rigid mango
^
arctic walrus
Do you not understand
stuck knoll
Because the simple use of the gcd to reapply is a loss
rigid mango
bleak spoke
the same way it's a loss to vendetta
rigid mango
APGJAKILshjgoliagsa
bleak spoke
but you DON"T
stuck knoll
No you don’t
rigid mango
HAHAHAAH
arctic walrus
this is so good lmao
bleak spoke
holy moly
balmy cradle
Lol what is happening
stuck knoll
Because the total damage CT does is less than 1 fok
balmy cradle
He cant be real
arctic walrus
All of CT, in its entire duration, does less damage than a SINGLE FOK
neon sedge
Wait vendetta is bad for mass cleave?
rigid mango
It's good for prio
bleak spoke
bUt iTS a BlEEd
neon sedge
Lol
rigid mango
Idk if he thinks it gives energy back
arctic walrus
o sHit iT iS Ur OnTo SomEthIng
bleak spoke
yeah vendetta is a loss on 8t
neon sedge
K
neon sedge
Right, chunky monkeys
bleak spoke
on the other hand exsang is pretty good if you're running with super low haste
neon sedge
Got it
peak surge
Where did the CT guy, bring him back.
bleak spoke
cuz it gives you an extra "2 bleeds" worth of e regen over 7 or 8 seconds for you to do your stuff
molten mirage
im here
fresh abyss
just hit HoA 55
what major/minor setup should i go for?
i saw the overview but isn't there like a definitive go-to?
undone pasture
The one that gives u most dmg imo
bleak spoke
as of the moment lucid major in raids and focusing iris major in keys is the go to
peak surge
Sims are a great thing
bleak spoke
but for minor simming yourself is important
bleak spoke
unless many people run worldvein in your raid
peak surge
Alright, back to CT. Lul
strange python
So how many EB do you need for it to beat CT and does it apply to all target counts?
stuck knoll
Just leave it the discussion is done people have said their piece
undone pasture
I dont understand all the hate to the CT guy, he is doing the logical thing. Its just a shame logic sucks in wow
rigid mango
He's not using logic tho
molten mirage
except i am
rigid mango
obv not
undone pasture
Aoe finisher doing more damage than aoe generator is perfect logic imo.
molten mirage
oh wow you convinced me zine your so right
neon sedge
He’s going more damage so something is off
molten mirage
great logical explanation
strange python
Guys i'm kinda confused about one talent that i see on warcraft logs. I only see rogue using master assassin instead of subterfuge. It's because they use blood of the enemy as major essence ? Cause i use subterfuge and i don't have blood rank 3 for now so i use lucid rank 3 and Lifeblood as minor for raid
arctic walrus
I mean we've given you enough evidence you're just being stubborn at this point
royal lantern
allright people, right now you are more or less just dicks too him, and im sure most here didnt knew that CT doesnt count for ven wounds too at the start sooo.....
bleak spoke
i mean everyone knows that
molten mirage
and i have countered your explanation 1000 times
bleak spoke
because you don't get energy back
faint harness
No point going ham on someone for having an opinion, civilized discussion should be promoted
bleak spoke
okay we're saying the global that you use to press ct does less damage than the global that you press fok with
undone pasture
Yea i’m not saying it does more damage. I’m just saying that if you play a rogue without simming and reading guides you would assume a finisher will do more damage than a builder.
arctic walrus
You can't counter a factual explanation with your feelings
faint harness
"but you're wrong", do you scream ur opinion in peoples faces when they disagree with you IRL too
bleak spoke
that's not an opinion
faint harness
Dude there are people that think the earth is flat
bleak spoke
that's not an opinion either
molten mirage
you have a 12 sec dot being applied to how many ever targets wastiong 1 global to do it thats legit 1 second out of 12 that dot will be ticking i dont see how adding that to your dps will some how lowwer your overall output
it legit makes no sence to me
bleak spoke
you have a 12 second dot that adds up to x damage to all those targets
twin fiber
then play CT
bleak spoke
you press fok
stuck knoll
It’s because the total dot does less than 1 fok
faint harness
Its a belief/opinion, wahtever. Just drop it and move on 🙂
molten mirage
troll all you want but that seems pretty loogical to me and trollikng wont convince me im wrong
bleak spoke
the damage done to those targets is more than x damage
fringe lily
why does SS show so low on bloodmallet and herodmg, but all the top sin m+ are running 2 of them still?
bleak spoke
thus it's not worth it to push the button
rigid mango
if you wanna do less dmg
strange python
Help 😭
bleak spoke
over fok
rigid mango
Go for it.
arctic walrus
@strange python MA with x3 DD is better dmg than sub in raid
molten mirage
zine you should work on your people skills homie
bleak spoke
@fringe lily gear availability
stuck knoll
@strange python people generally only run sub with SS that seems to be changing now with Blood though yes
arctic walrus
You gotta work on your critical thinking
cobalt pelican
what herodamage chart are you even looking at
bleak spoke
and also SS doesn't sim low on 2t and 3t
rigid mango
sure bud
faint harness
So many ppl having shit sundays i see, condescending all over
royal lantern
@fringe lily because those sims are ST raid fights, and ss is good for m+
fringe lily
isnt the hecticaddcleave as good as possible for m+ ?
cobalt pelican
hecticaddcleave is still a boss sim
molten mirage
im out guys have a good sunday and thanks to those who actually tried to engage in a civilized discussion about aoe dps in m+
bleak spoke
do dungeon slice if you're not doing a custom sim
cobalt pelican
meaning you don't restealth ever
stuck knoll
Alright if it’s not gonna be a discussion anymore and just childish insults we’re gonna stop it now
faint harness
There are plenty of other ways to get ur point across without being sarcastic and snide
cobalt pelican
meaning you never get shrouded outside of your regular stuff
fringe lily
what's the best method to sim m+ ?
stuck knoll
Or I can start warning and muting people
undone pasture
And @molten mirage go to the aoe dummies in zuldazar and see for ur self which does more dmg. 1 fok or 1 ct
royal lantern
there is dungeon slice, but its not really that great tbh
bleak spoke
for aoe you try to get stat weights from 6t40s and 6t60s for tyr and fortified
strange python
@stuck knoll Ok cause i got only two dd and blood rank 2 so i don't know if it's enough
arctic walrus
What other traits you got Sif
bleak spoke
cuz council fight is yikes
stuck knoll
@strange python you can check with raidbots sub might be enough idk off hand though
strange python
Does anyone know how many EB do you need to beat CT on, say, 5 targets?
royal lantern
probably 1? CT is not really that great anymore
polar forge
Lol for real dawg
arctic walrus
Assume always, because PB will always pull ahead if you have a single target available
rigid mango
ttk?
twin fiber
yeah, if you have twist the knife you dont want to waste cps on CT
cobalt pelican
0 ttk 1 eb 3 sob 2 blood rite is the esports build
strange python
@arctic walrus I have two dd two thing who gives u stats above 50% dunno how u say it in english and one twist knife one suffocation
arctic walrus
I haven't wasted points on CT since cata
cobalt pelican
ct was p good season 1 m+
royal lantern
so you didnt play in s1?
cobalt pelican
and pretty enjoyable to play with too
arctic walrus
Outlaw gang
cobalt pelican
it's kinda weird i remember so little of 1 trait per piece of gear
royal lantern
pretty bad when you try too play smart, when CT was good for a while 🤷
strange python
Undulating tides for prog yay or nay? Absorb seems pretty high even if it comes at the cost of losing dmg for a while.
royal lantern
i say nay imo
twin fiber
ct was good for a while because people had only 3 traits
royal lantern
progression wipes are mostly cus mechanics did go wrong, and the shield will not change that
crisp steppe
🤔 nice discussion
royal lantern
and if you need the shield too stay alive, something is wrong anway
crisp steppe
maybe theres a fight in there where that trait makes sense
polar forge
I’d say nay too
crisp steppe
you either never go below 50 or it saves you if you do
majority of times it won't do anything for you since you're expected to go below 50
royal lantern
the problem is simply that most raidfights either drop the entire raid anyway and forces a healing cd, or 1-2 people drop low hp and need too be healed if you dont do stuff wrong
arctic walrus
45s is huge too
strange python
does focused azerite beam damage do increased damage to enemies with vendetta?
arctic walrus
No
strange python
Ok thanks thought so
royal lantern
and if a mechanics drops the entire raid too like 40%hp, thats a pretty big dps lost there if many people use the trait,for something that just happens in the fight
polar forge
Did any of you get that new coral trinket?
arctic walrus
Imagine being lucky 
polar forge
Any insight how to use it proper?
crisp steppe
with vendetta I heard
polar forge
Hey I got it on normal
arctic walrus
#tc-updates post
crisp steppe
^
polar forge
Asking specifically for sin but I’ll check over there
woeful minnow
what does "stack with vendetta" mean exactly for your opener tho
the activation time comes after your first vendetta
crisp steppe
so don't
polar forge
Yeah kinda sucks to not have the crit buff for first vend
arctic walrus
It's unlikely you'll have stacked anything meaningful to delay vendetta
You basically spend 2 minutes after opener pooling stacks, THEN you stack with vendetta
polar forge
Right
I saw someone else say in here to just use at 7 stacks
So basically I’m askin should we just b using throughout the fight or just let it stack for vendettas only?
woeful minnow
from what @arctic walrus is saying you pop it once then let it stack until your second vendetta
quaint sequoia
its still only +10 for weekly right?
crisp steppe
yeah I think so @quaint sequoia nothing that indicates otherwise
quaint sequoia
okok great 😃
faint harness
+15 if you want rank 3 iris essence in 2 chests
polar forge
Replacing a 410 lurker and 415 dice with 415 coral and 415 cyclotronic blast trinket got me like 1500 dps on my sim I just don’t see how
lusty narwhal
Why not
real bay
polar forge
Feel like lurkers is really strong with vend and ttk
cobalt pelican
luckily dps isn't fueled by feelings
coral is a pretty decent amount of crit during vendetta
polar forge
Touché
cobalt pelican
and cyclotronic just actually blasts
knotty kindle
try 200 to 300
knotty kindle
it says 2 casts at the righthand side
polar forge
So use that after opener and lucid dream with dots up and low energy?
hearty pewter
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
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https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
arctic walrus
Yes that's when you use it
frank pollen
Kind of a stupid question. Do you need to have daggers in both hands or just your main hand?
rigid mango
Yes
polar forge
Both
rigid mango
Both
rigid mango
sin double dagger, outlaw non dagger main hand anything offhand, sub dagger mainhand anything offhand
solid nova
You can't mutilate with out two daggers
rigid mango
^
frank pollen
cool, thx that is good to know about the different specs
oblique jackal
is everyone going with subterfuge or MA>
polar forge
Go MA
oblique jackal
with what traits
red plaza
DD/NP/TTK
arctic walrus
anything but SS
oblique jackal
are you serious?
polar forge
Yes...
oblique jackal
oh wow
arctic walrus
x3 DD 1 NP/BBI/TTK
oblique jackal
its been the best trait for awhile so i feel like you're messing with me
arctic walrus
SS?
oblique jackal
yeah SS
polar forge
I made the switch a few weeks ago haven’t looked back. Way more dmg with MA and right traits
arctic walrus
Well it's only good cuz of sub and if you're considering going MA it's worthless
oblique jackal
should have one at least one SS for the 2 extra combo poiints
polar forge
No
arctic walrus
I can't believe people haven't been playing MA since the start of BoD?
oblique jackal
i haven't
polar forge
Didn’t have traits
red plaza
you play ss/sub to pad parses in BoD fights 😛
rigid mango
Ss is premiere cleave
But for st oriented fights like last 3 in bod ma is better
Also, ss might log real well
But running the ma setup normally grants more boss damage, which is generally appreciated for prog etc
tribal marlin
with high amount of critical strike (like using Coral trinket + Bote*) it seems like it give Subter more value
rigid mango
Although sub is seemingly taking over, maybe
tribal marlin
I have MA and Subt simming exactly the same since I have Coral trinket
polar forge
Thought bleeds don’t crit?
tribal marlin
they do crit
but actually with BotE + Coral I have 80% critical chance
so MA is quite overcapping crit a lot, i still remain equal to subter tho
rigid mango
I think when we swap bote for life force MA will take the crown again?
tribal marlin
yes 100%
rotund mural
anybody use dribbling inkpod trinket?
polar forge
Been playing too much vanilla lol
faint harness
@rigid mango whats the synergy between MA and life force? Can the guardian benefit from the crit or just the 5% added dmg taken?
rigid mango
It's not synergy between them
arctic walrus
Dropping blood brings MA back up
rigid mango
It's the getting rid of bote + ma
faint harness
Ahhh
rigid mango
Since it's that combo making sub better
stuck knoll
MA is a white list so only rogue abilities work
rigid mango
Since you overcap crit too much
faint harness
yea i know, just wondered why the sudden spike
rigid mango
With that gone, should be back to standard stuff
tribal marlin
well it's also Coral trinket
rigid mango
Yeah
tribal marlin
without coral trinket MA is ahead
it's 20% crit during vendetta quite insane trinket btw
rigid mango
I assume bote will have the same sorta effect
tribal marlin
ye well I meant it's bote + coral
cobalt pelican
there are definitely other things contributing to subterfuge longer term in the tier
rigid mango
Yeah
tribal marlin
but 1 whitout the other don't make overcapping crit
arctic walrus
Dropping bote probably brings your crit closer to 100% without going over too much
Including coral etc
rigid mango
yeh
should make MA a bit better than sub again
I'm not sure how big the diff is between MA and sub is anyways, what is it for you mikihisa?
young jewel
Is potion of focused resolve still the choice for ST after the nerf to it?
arctic walrus
Unbridled fury
young jewel
Thanks
fair stag
Hello team... is everyone going crit now? My sims keep prioritizing Mastery over everything... seems sketch tho
rigid mango
Everyone isn't
Depends on your stats etc
Follow what it says, all stats are very close
arctic walrus
My sub is less than 100 dmg behind MA and I don't even have coral/bote
fair stag
Ok appreciate the response
marble hemlock
if you have font of power, MA sims quite worse now due to how the trinket is being used
rigid mango
ah
arctic walrus
BIG channel
marble hemlock
since it wastes the entire vanish window 😉
marble hemlock
probably by tomorrow, ye
arctic walrus
So is font/coral replacing blast/lurker
rigid mango
idd
timber meadow
Oh weird that sim logic can’t be right - why would you channel it after vanish like that?
cobalt pelican
it's a known bug t hat's fixed in the nightly
timber meadow
Ohh okay makes sense
cobalt pelican
just dropping my current trinkets into the t24 profile shows like https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cykqfnCEZwALiMBfpLeqoD
arctic walrus
Roll tonight for font or save for mythic 🤔
cobalt pelican
fonts a pain in the ass but i'd probably roll on azshara heroic if you haven't spent like 10 already
prisma dagger
what azerite traits should i go for when doing m+ for more aoe on trash? right now im using single target traits. double dose, nothing personal and twist the knife
arctic walrus
Sub out DD/NP for EB/SS
lone mirage
Hi guys just do a 10 shrine do my fuckin best all along , 26 k dps at the end
cobalt pelican
ma still ahead by a decent margin with just coral/cyclotronic so eh
lone mirage
Im Really depressed xD
arctic walrus
hey it's better than yesterday!
prisma dagger
so i should not use subterfuge anymore for neither ST or AOE? and go MA insteadd?
polar forge
Play outlaw then
cobalt pelican
qat
polar forge
Outlaw still meta
naive pier
Guys what do u think the best way to open on two targets using MA,
cobalt pelican
play subterfuge (with ss) in any case where there are two or more targets of equal priority, probably
prisma dagger
i dont have any gear for outlaw yet. havent played for 8 months. but for m+ assa i should go ST traits?
cobalt pelican
n o
polar forge
I mean it’s fortified week why would u go all st?
Assa depends heavily on affix in keys
cobalt pelican
two conversations overlapped and i think there was some confusion
in dungeons you basically exclusively play subterfuge with eb/ss/ttk
rigid mango
You never go full ST.
prisma dagger
ye but im not sure what traits to go for for m+ as assa for aoe.
prisma dagger
ty<3
rigid mango
You NEED atleast one SS, and I'd say you need an EB too
Rest are down to affix/comp/pref
polar forge
Yep
arctic walrus
What's an example of changing traits depending on affix
polar forge
Or just play outlol
tall narwhal
Can u remibd me what does ttk stand for
rigid mango
Sims can't do pre pull
arctic walrus
twist the knife
rigid mango
twist the knife
cobalt pelican
on the previous build it would just garrote font, seems like there was just a minor messup when updating opener stuff
bleak spoke
Yet despite that it still sims so good
arctic walrus
So next nightly should have font being channeled prepull?
cobalt pelican
not prepull no
it should revert to garrote font, probably
i don't think simc itself actually supports it as precombat so it wouldn't be down to the apl wizards here
whether they can ghetto rig something in idk
arctic walrus
"yet despite that it still sims so good"
idk about that one
So when would be ideal channel time
cobalt pelican
precombat
arctic walrus
then pre vend?
cobalt pelican
yeah
that's not simming that badly considering
it literally
vanishes
tbs
then trinkets
and stands still
cobalt pelican
resim your character with subterfuge on the exact same sim and it should show simming pretty well
lone mirage
Just one more question 😏 now im going for m+ stats, can i keep the same for raids ?
cobalt pelican
and that's without precombat
yes, font and coral interact kinda wonkily
what the priority is i don't kn ow yet
arctic walrus
20s cd on the other right?
arctic walrus
Yikes
cobalt pelican
font way before vendetta and get overlap
or font gets prio on v endetta
and coral would be used on alternating tbs
or something
idk
arctic walrus
at least with lurkers/pocket sized you didn't need to trinket until later on
cobalt pelican
that's something for the math guys to figure out
it might just straight up not be worth it to play both who knows
fresh ginkgo
For font if you channel for 4 sec you get full 30 sec of agi buff right?
Is that how it works?
cobalt pelican
yes
naive pier
Guys what do u think the best way to open on two targets using MA? cant find a good one
fresh ginkgo
So do you channel pre pull?
arctic walrus
Rupture both then cds on main target
polar forge
I just do my opener normal then dot everything
naive pier
thats very simple 😛
i need the detailssssss boys
open with a garrot + mutilate + rapture go to second target,doesnt fit well
cobalt pelican
warm cave
how final do we think the last hero damage update is for azerite traits? Or is that skewed since Font of Power isn't simming right
cobalt pelican
exact same but with subterfuge which is closer to it's real value playing ma
polar forge
Do ur opener as normal then go rupture and garrote shit
cobalt pelican
it'll be higher in reality with precombat channeling and playing ma but ye
solid nova
@warm cave mythic tuning hasn't happened yet
cobalt pelican
and that's 430 unsocketed
warm cave
True, Thanks Richard
fresh ginkgo
Pre channel at 5?
arctic walrus
Pog
fresh ginkgo
And restealth at 1?
Unless it doesnt take you out of stealth
I don't have the trink
cobalt pelican
it doesn't break stealth anymore
they hotfixed it yesterday
you used to have to precast then stealth open
now you just sit in stealth
and channel at 5 or whatever to lave room for no pot mishaps
arctic walrus
Just prepot at 4
stuck knoll
@naive pier I wouldn’t run MA on 2T
cobalt pelican
if you end up playing ma on 2target for some reason i imagine you'd just do your normal opener st
and then move into 2t bleeding
stuck knoll
Yeah just ST opener on 1 then dot
naive pier
how would u start it