it unstealths u inr aid
#assassination
spice surge
Thats unlucky then
tropic ocean
I will try it again
it changes the tooltip as well
lets see if the dmg gets higher in log
cobalt pelican
it works fine
wispy iron
hey guys, which combo would you take to first 3 bosses in BoD ? I guess the marked one is the best in my situation, or is the 3 SS overated ? https://imgur.com/a/2APmMnP , just sceptical because of ttk trait in chest, so maybe meqatorque would be better
cobalt pelican
for the first 3 i'd probably just play ss np helm ss np shoulder and dd ttk chest
blightborne is probably marginally better on grong but i wouldn't hearth to reforge because i'm lazy
wispy iron
yeah I was thinking to switch that 3rd garrote ... I guess I will give it a try with dd ttk chest
cobalt pelican
the 3rd ss isn't really worth using blood siphon or whatever that shit is called
marble hemlock
nice ping
civic palm
Just be a team player and use Ruby 👌
cobalt pelican
emerald suk
knotty falcon
You’ll lose emerald stacks if you get any mechanic
bleak spoke
Yikes
vestal wren
gz
marble hemlock
assa rising
civic palm
"Good weapon".
tropic ocean
np seli
spice sorrel
Those set names lmao
quasi pewter
👀
strange python
Do you ever use Poisoned Knife for any particular situation?
rigid mango
If you're overcapping and can't be in range
tropic ocean
e.g. when you have no cd and shark boss spins
strange python
i see thanks
chilly marsh
@marble hemlock no leach trash weapon :p
balmy cradle
Sorry if it is asked frequently but what azeritr traits do you guys recommend for this week eu with fortified bolstering? Planning on doing all keys on 15 before season ends
ocean sparrow
I'm probably running 2 EB, 2 try, 2 ss
Debating dropping something for a NP to prioritize a mob heavily if I have to
Not sure though
Or 2 eb, 3 ttk, 1 ss if I have the pieces...that would give more consistent priority dps
rigid mango
3 ttk week, for sure
balmy cradle
thanks alot
woven axle
Hey you guys! I am a player that quit wow in the last third of legion and started recently again! like a month ago - since i have my base gear together now including one shrouded suffocation trait ill wanted to ask what the ideal opener should look like
i imagine that we could go like
garrote
garrote
rupture
vendetta
toxic blade
mutilate
envenom
Mut/env/mut/env...
but i would love to have some critique or suggestions or just someone who actually knows better! 😄
royal lantern
the openers with and without SS are in the pins if you check
vast kelp
is there anything on the new azerite essences for 8.2?
ik there used to be a spreadsheet but i cant find it
knotty falcon
marble hemlock
hmm
spare dust
id be happy with someone telling me which ones are best for raiding too xD
marble hemlock
dont think anyone has a definitiv answer to that y et
spare dust
ah hm
marble hemlock
most of the data and info is still preliminary until we get to play around with it a bit more on live and have proper sims accounting for every essence
vapid scarab
Think pretty much every class is looking at the same few
CD proc, pvp talent, crit dmg
meager nebula
pvp talent one is useless for pve for rogues
meager nebula
he said pvp talent
which is a different essence entirely
conflict and strife allows you to have a pre determined 4th pvp talent for your spec, and use it outside of pvp
vapid scarab
Right, I said most specs are looking at the same 3 tho. Obviously some are not that good for certain specs
But it’s still the same 3 that pop up in each discord
spice surge
Pvp talent one is utter completely garbage for rogues, unless they change it
vapid scarab
Also smoke bomb in m+ could definitely see uses to force mechanics on certain people
vapid scarab
Oh, it changed?
spice surge
y
vapid scarab
Well that sucks, but I don’t think they necessarily are supposed to be good for pve in the first place.
vapid scarab
They’re all “mandatory” honor talents that open up pvpers to take a different talent while still being able to keep the mandatory ones
Every rogue I see is taking freedom with sprint, idk what you mean it’s awful
spice surge
The other options you would open up in your honor talents by taking that essence
Is nowhere near the powerlevel of having a proper essence
vapid scarab
Okay, I’m not arguing that
That’s not the essences fault, that’s all the other honor talents fault
But that is the primary purpose of the essence, to provide an otherwise “mandatory” option to open up other possibilities. If the other talents specifically for rogue are not worth having over a proper essence then that’s a different thing entirely
spice surge
I just dont see they point in adding something that will literally never be used in pve and almost never used in pvp 🤷
vapid scarab
For rogues
What talent would they change it to for it to see use in pvp
Because you said all the other options are garbage anyway
spice surge
They're not gargabe, but they're far worse than having the +crit damage one
vapid scarab
Hence the essence not even being the problem and just the tuning of rogue honor talents in general
meager nebula
the issue is that rather than picking a different talent based on the spec
they just chose the middle ground and selected the neutral ones
which are horrible
spice surge
If the essence gave system shock
It would be a lot more interesting because that could be useful in pve
royal lantern
smoke bomb would break so many dungeons
like, really, if it would be smoke bomb, i allready see shit like''you use smoke bomb, all run in and then get teleported too a enemy'' or something like that happen
gaunt rune
Anyone have any idea if titan risidium will be used in the next patch
or am i stacking for now reason
no*
glacial jasper
You are stacking for nearly no reason, because of inflation
gaunt rune
TR inflation? wouldn't you want to stack as much as possible so you could buy new pieces in the next season?
vapid scarab
yes
prisma carbon
yes, but a new random piece is going to be 45k iirc
vapid scarab
depending how much you get now you can save about a week or so when patch hits
vapid scarab
exactly
gaunt rune
currently outlaw, but plan on going assassination next patch
so was wondering if it was worth it or not to buy a new helmet now since the traits suck for assassination
prisma carbon
if you're still doing progress in BoD/CoS, then its not a bad idea to buy a piece if you think it'll help. you'll only be a week ahead of people at most by saving it up.
gaunt rune
true
also, if my haste is sitting at 19% and crit 31%, should I re-enchant my rings with haste, rather than crit (as crit benefits outlaw in most scenarios)
vapid scarab
gear at the start of a tier is a lot more relevant than gear at the very end
and you won't be a week ahead, you'll be about a week behind if you aren't saving anything
because that's what most people are doing
gaunt rune
thoughts on haste vs crit?
prisma carbon
sim yourself
gaunt rune
ah true
supple compass
Does mastery increase np and dd dmg
vapid scarab
yeah
strange python
Hey, trying to learn sin for m+ exclusively, got 3x SS, 1x NP, 1x TC and 1 EB, running standard talents with subterfuge and toxic blade. The guides seem a bit complicated referring to multiple talent choices and a little dated so not entirely sure what the basic idea of the spec is.
Do I just need to keep garrote, rupture and poison up on up to 4 enemies and dump all other CP into Envenoms on the primary target?
Also which target count should you start using FoK as a point builder instead of mutilate
thorn edge
Speaking of Azerite purchases (1) is achieving full 420 prior to patch worth it? And (2) what are people’s views on random vs specific pieces? I’ve always been hesitant to test my luck with RNG
strange python
I have a question about BoD Mythic(9/9), For a ST Build. What are your thoughts on Taking:
3x DD/2xNP/1xBBI
3xDD/1xNP/1xBBI/1xTTK
2xDD/2xNP/1xBBI/1xTTK
Want your Opinion independently from what sims says
crude chasm
!help
spice surge
There are 3 rings of azerite traits
Which is why the middle of of those is probably the one simming the highest, because it has 3x overwhelming power valé
and for pure ST i would trust the sims
strange python
for pure ST for me it will aways say: 3xNP 3xDD which is consistent, but I recognized that my Evenom Crits are quite low. Bringing BBI will bring in some lucky crits. Whats your thought on TTK Trait from own experience?
fleet whale
I have two ttk in my setup atm and it's pretty good
midnight flower
I switched my chest and now run x3 np/dd and dropped my one ttk.
@thorn edge I saved for my last bis slot but the last few weeks I been gambling and have been lucky with the rng.
It’s worth the gamble
Was a long reddit thread with the math but I don’t have it as why gambling is worth it as well if you can dig it up
thorn edge
Yeah. I’ve been pushing higher and higher keys and thought the dmg boost would be nice.... I did the math and calculated my odds
visual quartz
@strange python 3xgarrote open but dont need more than that as non empowered isnt worth it. Keeping up 5 bleeds give unlimited energy. think its 5+ targets is just FoK spam. NP in M+ is pretty bad other than KR some weeks.
strange python
Which Chest actually has Overwhelming Power
I am pretty confident that I almost have all usefull Pieces and none of mine has OP
visual quartz
Celophide chest has OP
fleet whale
and it has DD and TTK with it
spice surge
raid helm/gorak/ceph
fleet whale
i know it's still early but does anyone have any clue what the best essence will be?
strange python
ty @visual quartz, guessing Blightborne Infusion is a better choice then? Do you mean 5 ruptures? And after my 3x garrote open its not even worth refreshing it?
visual quartz
the enery cost, dmg isnt worth compared to a rupture. blight works. usualy everyone likes a combo of SS/TTK/EB for M+
midnight flower
x2 ss x2 ttk x2 eb is what i use
@strange python i use mekka chest cause i have a shit load of mastery
and with my lukers trinket it gets even more wild
strange python
Atm I use Mekka Chest As well with CoS Trinket
midnight flower
word have you sim yourself in cephalohide chest?
thats the only other* one you would use
strange python
Ok cool, just having to work with the azerite I've got unfortunately. By 5+ targets FoK spam do you mean that's when it becomes a better point builder than mutilate, or thats the break point where I literally just mash FoK/rupture
midnight flower
5 ruptures out and your energy regen is going to be pumping
midnight flower
so you keep the ruptures up and just spam fok/envenom
vapid scarab
after the garrotes wear off instead of refreshing you would do 3 more ruptures to keep 5 bleeds
midnight flower
some people waste time with landing full point ruptures
just spread the bleeds and pump
vapid scarab
you can also rupture snipe stuff about to die to get a big burst of energy
for short lived adds that's what i would do
rather than waste time putting out 5 bleeds then going into fok
just rupture snipe if you run out of energy
strange python
Ok cool. When is FoK>Mutilate then? Sorry for the spam questions lol
midnight flower
4-5 targets
vapid scarab
no
fleet whale
i would say three
vapid scarab
4-5 is when you stop finishing
it depends how many EB traits you have but 2-3 is when you would build with FoK over mut
strange python
Only got 1 EB
vapid scarab
3 would probably be safe bet unless you have 3x EB
leaden garden
Been playing outlaw today, to try it out, and damn it's annoying with that rng...so, guys, why do you prefer asa? Trying to pick a specc and would love some opinions. Both for m+ and raids.
midnight flower
2-3 targets in m+ lol
vapid scarab
assa has a lot more to think about and look forward to than outlaw imo
outlaw is very spammy and mindless but assa you plan what you're going to do 15s in advance sometimes
stuff like rupture sniping and funneling FoK->env into high prio targets also adds a lot of depth imo
midnight flower
i play both. i run outlaw in m+ and sin in raid.
use to only play Sin* when m+ season started cause outlaw boi's all over and showing them up with the sin build was fun
now sin is becoming the bandwagon so i stopped and switch to outlaw
vapid scarab
it's a lot harder to be good at sin than it is to be good at outlaw
midnight flower
i dont find either hard
leaden garden
Thanks for your replies. I like both, but rerolling dice 7 times in a row makes me wanna rip my hair out
midnight flower
its a video game thats pretty scripited
vapid scarab
something doesn't have to be hard in and of itself for it to be harder than an alternative
leaden garden
Whats the hardest aspect of asa? Good TB windows?
vapid scarab
good TB windows and knowing how best to shave time off packs
midnight flower
rerolling isnt that bad people just panic when they dont have the pinned rolls
or maybe since i enjoyed legion outlaw this form of rolling is roookie
vapid scarab
your goal with assa shouldn't be just spamming overall damage like outlaw it should be looking at how to end each pack as quickly as possible
midnight flower
legion you would pull your hair out lol
sin in m+ is knowing how to manage your CD's for sure
vapid scarab
sometimes ending the pack as quick as possible does mean just doing as much dmg as possible while other times it means nuking a higher hp mob while you FoK everything else to funnel into it
vapid scarab
rupture sniping the smaller stuff as it dies to funnel more into the big mob
midnight flower
its like holding ar till a boss fight
vapid scarab
it's kind of like sub in s1
but you also do a lot of AoE instead of just nuking single targets
leaden garden
It's just that people decline me for m+ as asa...but as outlaw, np. I only do low keys though, and pug mentality
vapid scarab
outlaw is probably better for low keys anyway
fleet whale
except assassin is still really good in M+
vapid scarab
assa does have some limitations, if you don't get restealths it can really fuck you
leaden garden
Yeah, well, id like to play the same specc for m+ and raids, ofc with dif sets of gear obv
vapid scarab
whereas outlaw doesn't really care about that
fleet whale
i pretty much only run in guild groups so re-stealths are no problem
stable pine
Reroll NE and have extra restealth - problem solved
leaden garden
If one were to play one specc, would it be outlaw or asa? for raids and m+ (10-15 keys)
vapid scarab
outlaw also gets to use vanish as a defensive/utility CD rather than an offensive one like assa
fleet whale
both are fine
vapid scarab
i don't understand why you can't just play rogue and why you have to limit yourself to a single spec
seems very boring
fleet whale
i've been playing strictly assassin for the most part since MoP
leaden garden
Because of azerite prices and pieces. Rogue is my 5th alt. dont have access to all them pieces, and gold
leaden garden
ofc
vapid scarab
what's the difference between that and having a set for outlaw and a set for assa
leaden garden
2 sets, if i play 2 speccs, id need 4 sets
stable pine
Well that’s your opinion @vapid scarab but some would find rerolling constant and pressing brain dead bladefurry as exciting
leaden garden
aha
fleet whale
some people don't like outlaw, and some people don't like assassin
meager nebula
also thanks to the stigma of mdi, people only think that outlaw is viable
whereas all of the people who do anything close to high keys, know that sin is perfectly viable
fleet whale
Any spec is viable 15 and below, hell maybe even higher than that
meager nebula
well yes we all know that
but the people who think only mdi specs are viable don't
which causes these issues
fleet whale
not all pugs do though, especially 10 pugs but i don't pug M+
fleet whale
which is why i would strongly recommend doing M+ with your guild on friends
vapid scarab
also @leaden garden one of the biggest +'s to bringing assa over outlaw is the silences
fleet whale
and damage reduction
vapid scarab
you can lock down 3 casters for 12s each
small aurora
^^
I always switch to sin for shrine just because of the early control
was also thinking of doing it in ML becasue my group doesn't have good AoE lockdown
zenith gust
depends on what your goals are as a player,
if you want to push high keys and your raiderio pugging, you will probably have to go outlaw
if you're doing 10s or 15s with friends/guildies, you can play whatever you like
vapid scarab
the thing with assa is a lot of it's usefulness doesn't show in a damage meter
small aurora
yeah, but the next time the group does that key without you something will be missing and that is the best feeling for me
vapid scarab
agree, just hard if starting with pugs
strange python
Idk I'm new to both sin and outlaw but not having gouge is absolutely huge
zenith gust
i dont think they'll miss much tbh
you get almost infinite stuns if necessary with gouge and bte
strange python
I play other classes a lot more, you really cant complain about not finding groups for low keys as sin lol
zenith gust
of course, in low keys you can play whatever class/spec
small aurora
yeah Rogue is a golden ticket atm
vapid scarab
i mean you also perma stun DR the most dangerous mobs as outlaw
small aurora
yeah
small aurora
and sin's silences allow you to lure mobs and deathball them easier
vapid scarab
unless you are pushing cutting edge world record keys difference will be negligible
strange python
I think sin is gonna be better for new affix, thats pmuch the only reason I'm learning it
small aurora
also frees up other party members to go full unga cause you are soloing the mechanics
zenith gust
mobs you can stun usually dont live that long
plus the are other 2 dps kicking and stuning
even CCs can be used to interrupt
you dont really lack on that to justify the silence as a NEEDED resource
which oc is nice to have
vapid scarab
depending on your group you do
zenith gust
but not like.... needed
strange python
Btw, thanks for the advice earlier, aoe felt a LOT smoother doing what you guys said.
vapid scarab
i mean, by the same argument neither is gouge or BtE
none of it is needed in a perfect world with a perfect group where you all have permanent kicks and CC
strange python
for dungeons like atal/underrot where you're pulling multiple mobs that need to be interrupted simultaneously, I don't think any spec in the game beats outlaw
vapid scarab
um
small aurora
uh
vapid scarab
outlaw can't lock down 3 targets for 12+s
small aurora
think he meant Sin
strange python
Nope. I'm not talking purely about interrupts, shit like bulwark in atal, and the maggot breath in underrot
fresh abyss
can someone help me pick pvp traits for sin pls?
strange python
If its purely interrupts prot pala>>>
zenith gust
assassins in motherlode..
vapid scarab
havoc comes pretty close to outlaw in terms of raw CC
zenith gust
i mean the mob, not the spec
vapid scarab
gouge is shorter CD yeah but they have aoe stun
bleak spoke
it's the shorter cd on gouge that gives outlaw the best control
strange python
^
bleak spoke
nothing else compares
small aurora
and it doesn't cost CP
bleak spoke
you get cp
small aurora
yeah
vapid scarab
btw do people take dirty tricks or prey on the weak for m+
strange python
always prey unless you're a chart whore
bleak spoke
you barely ever cheapshot except in emergencies
sap in pve is to set up pulls so you always have e
small aurora
yeah and when you go to do it, the mob has full DR 
bleak spoke
and the real cost of gouge is the global, not the energy
i gotchu https://wago.io/xMjZe4tZ-/1
vapid scarab
it makes sense, i was using dirty tricks for leveling but wondering what was best at cap
bleak spoke
this shows a little green dot on the mob's hp if it's 1/2 dr, a yellow if it's 1/4, red if it's not stunnable
strange python
blinding powder is p nice though if you don't need the prio damage
bleak spoke
what you always need the prio damage
small aurora
@bleak spoke love you
white basalt
ive been using agi this whole time
bleak spoke
@white basalt not for sin no
vapid scarab
does that WA show on multiple nameplates simultaneously?
bleak spoke
also this is the sin channel
white basalt
so agi for sin st?
bleak spoke
yeah always agi for sin
bleak spoke
really really helpful when you play with a group with aoe stuns 😃
strange python
bolstering week in a dungeon like freehold I'd take blinding powder tbh
bleak spoke
blind doesn't stop mobs from bolstering
small aurora
yeah ill get that installed asap once I am home
bleak spoke
you need to set up a sap on mobs like that before the pull if you're going to do that
otherwise you kill even
as a rogue of any sort you have the most control over the sort of dam a mob is taking
vapid scarab
sap prevents stuff from bolstering always? or it has to not be in combat?
bleak spoke
like, whether outlaw (the least), sin (more than most specs) or sub (the most), you can control the relative hp of mobs
sapping a linked mob and killing the pack around it will make it so sapped mob doesn't bolster
vapid scarab
even if you kill pretty much on top of the sapped mob?
strange python
Think you've misunderstood. Would only be taking short blind cd to use it as an interrupt on blind rage etc so you can pull bigger. 10% extra damage on 1 target is just gonna unbalance the mobs hp and make 1 die before others
bleak spoke
well no you make sure you move it at least several yds away so you don't break the sap :^)
vapid scarab
ofc
bleak spoke
but yeh you can be in bolstering range
vapid scarab
but i've had issues with stuff getting in combat while sapped if i fight stuff next to it
bleak spoke
@strange python incorrect, on even hp mobs you hit different ones with every bte on outlaw
you can tab target to even hp
by the nature of flurry you do 2x dmg to main target anyway
Yeah Sasquatch when the sap breaks it’ll get in combat
If you have issues with finishing the pull before it breaks you should knock it away and blind it probably
vapid scarab
well no it gets in combat while sapped
vapid scarab
i can record an example in a second
meager nebula
if the mob is part of the pack, when the rest of the pack is pulled it will be placed in combat
white basalt
so would BB be better at low ilvl? since the damage is flat? and agi scales with other stats? other rogue in guild is saying ravenholdt site said BB>Agi even for ST sin
meager nebula
to avoid the bolster you just move it outside of the bolster range
vapid scarab
it happens with non leashed stuff
bleak spoke
Yeah it’ll be in combat but it won’t bolster though
vapid scarab
the sapped mob will be in combat
bleak spoke
Idk how it works in open world but even in linked packs in dungeons it doesn’t bolster
vapid scarab
if i fight stuff on top of it
@white basalt you can sim the 2 pots very easily for yourself on raidbots
that's going to be more accurate anyway than anything someone tells you
bleak spoke
@white basalt no you never bursting blood as sin cuz you don’t have enough filled globals
Like the proc is based off your abilities used
vapid scarab
white basalt
thanks, dumb rogue guildy was stuck on outlaw guide
stiff crag
looking at top parses on Mythic Mekkatorque..why are they vanishing like 5 seconds in?
they aren't even casting garrote after it...doesnt subterfuge snapshot your initial garrote so you let the first one completely roll through all it's duration
sour wraith
They might be running master assassin
strange python
are they subt or MA?
visual quartz
MA build is better last 3 anyway
still idol
Hi I'm a noob at WA & TMW, I'm trying to set up one of them to glow when garrote has 5 seconds left and when rupture has 7 seconds left, does anyone have something for this?
civic palm
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
faint sleet
Which is better for m+ 3SS 1EB or 2/2
civic palm
2 EB is more AoE damage, 3SS is more 3 target/opener damage > _>
faint sleet
Thx
night summit
is SS good without both sub and exsang?
or should i say do i need exsang to make SS a good trait to have with subterfuge
civic palm
EX is not required.
and SS requires a format in which it can shine, Single Target not being that format.
night summit
so SS is better when i can cleave? So not good for jaina
small aurora
Can pad on ele
vapid scarab
nobody leaves ele up with jaina anymore
small aurora
yeah
night summit
So i should get rid of SS and get twist the knife for jaina? I know its not the best but all i have to work with
pastel wasp
TTK is good
vapid scarab
sim 8min patchwerk and see what it says
keep in mind you can vanish garrote ballistas and barrels in p2 so if they sim really close SS probably has the edge
pastel wasp
Pad god lol
vapid scarab
i mean, not really padding, it's damage that has to be done, and you're just dotting it
it's efficiency
small aurora
- the more dots you have out will increase your prio damage
night summit
Thanks for the help @pastel wasp @small aurora @vapid scarab
misty edge
hey guys quick question all i do is m+ 15-18's over whelming power blood siphon or unstable flames?
im thinking unstable flames but just wondering on other opinions of people smarter then me
small aurora
Think the consensus is that OP is op
But you could just Sim dslice and it will give you a value for each
flint jetty
Well its nice esp if you stack crit mastery so that you get some haste procs on ST
amber quail
As another one just said: OP is op. but mind the afflix. If you there are constantly unavoidable dmg become littorio bit difficult to stack.
rigid mango
But what, it's only really good on st, and most unavoidable damage that do dmg often that only once are trash related (bursting) if anything it's a bit worse during grev
I don't really think it matters that much
rigid mango
Idd
But grev is the only one that could tick you often on a boss fight
None of the others should really do that, OP is OP
tropic ocean
@misty edge you usually just use mastery/crit gear and have very low haste in m+ so you want as much op as possible and quick navigation to carry your st on boss
exotic rose
Hey guys, on adderis aspix fight, can we garrote aspix in the opener or he starts the fight reflecting damage?
I was thinking that the optimal opener would be garrote rupture aspix then shadowstep garrote adderis
Am I right?
tropic ocean
You can dot him before shield is up and wont get the damage but idk if he insta shields out of my mind
bronze kelp
no it does not
u have 3 secs as far as I remember
sometimes with bad luck you only have bleed dmg on the caster and no energy reg, cause poison did not proc 😦
shy axle
With 3 EB, how would you engage a pack like the fearing pterodaxes and the little raptors in atal dazar? 3x G -> R and spamm it or trying to snipe the little ones?
rigid mango
I don't normally garrote small
rigid mango
Just pump env into big ones
bronze kelp
spam and maybe rupture snap a little one
tropic ocean
Fok smallies
rigid mango
Ye just rup snipe small ones possibly
tropic ocean
Rupture 2nd bird
bronze kelp
otherwise -> env into screamers
tropic ocean
Outlul/dh take care of smalls i take care of bird
shy axle
ok thanks
shy axle
a long living pack of 5 mobs, all fairly equal hp. 3xG-> rup-2x fok-Rup is what i am doing mostly, at the end i am trying to keep 4 ruptures active. But I am not sure if I should dumb env`s at that "low" target count or if fok spamming at 5 t would net into more damage already
modest tendon
question on exsanguinate, at what point do you refresh the dots? is it still in the pandemic window or is it after they have completely worn off?
bronze kelp
if you run ttk, you should use env
there was once a spreadsheet calculating when to just spam fok or use fok -> env
u rupture only to have constant energy reg
shy axle
Okay, thanks. Ye sure for the ruptures, was just thinking about the env usage. Good to know tough
bronze kelp
when u got enough bleeds runnig u usually use env below 10 target count when running ttk traits
tropic ocean
^ no
bronze kelp
but 10 targets is a rough number, depends on how many EB and how many ttk traits u have
tropic ocean
With given affixes theres mostly something that needs to be envenomed
bronze kelp
assumed there is no prio target on a 5 count trash pack, i would use, what deals more dmg
but you are right, there is nearly always a prio target
tropic ocean
If theres no prio target that needs to be trimmed in current setup
You will fok> envenom
Cuz pumping st into a mob over fok is bad
bronze kelp
is that fok -> envom or fok > (greater) env ?
tropic ocean
Cuz u will bolster everything around it
bronze kelp
u can envenom different targets if no prio
so u even it out your self
i for my part just focus the highest health mob until its even
shy axle
@tropic ocean would you say even at that hypothetical 5 target count group? Can`t remember the treshhold where just spamming fok nets in more dmg
bronze kelp
your scenario is to much of a construct that never happens 😉
shy axle
ye sure, you have to include the focus dmg you can do to make it more efficient
bronze kelp
grogg boss is the 2nd ?
tropic ocean
While with envenom you can sabotage yourself as well in bolstering
shy axle
out of interrest
tropic ocean
You use it mailny to trim mobs to equal hp
Or to trim down a higher hp mob out of a pack
E.g. Crusher in fh
bronze kelp
@shy axle u such a hypthetical pull u can also envenom always another mob to do "equal" dmg to every mob. but as said, thats not a scenario that happens often
u mentioned underrot, where almost every pull has a prio target
after that, try to bring all mobs to the same hp level, cause the worst is to have a single mob up with 50% hp, that slows down the pull a lot
pls guys correct me if im talking bullshit 😉
rustic onyx
i think he just ask what does more dmg, without relation to this week affix
bronze kelp
that has to be calculated, and is also simable
shy axle
Yes you are right, thats what i am doing atm. Was just unsure about the transition between spam fok from a pure dmg standpoint, focus-things that would be better aside. Just to know, I know it is/would be better to even the grupus hp out
grouzps
groups
tropic ocean
What does more dmg is still not the main choice to be made
rustic onyx
yes but that his question
tropic ocean
If you want to play goof
Good*
And he has been given the right answers to the wrong question
😉
rustic onyx
exactly so he keep asking his question again
i think the threshold in term of pure dps was 5 target when fok is better correct me if wrong
bronze kelp
depends
rustic onyx
with 3 eb
bronze kelp
given were 3 EB, on that base fok is strong on very low target count
but maybe beside of 3EB he has 3 TTK
tropic ocean
Depends on talents too
bronze kelp
that changes the situation a lot
shy axle
ye sure. Thanks all
shy axle
i do from time to time, helps with descision making
Is Seli using his Env (on ST) regardless of Env uptime/EP and Energie? Feels like he is just pumping them out when available but i do not know if i see it right on the screen, so just to clarfiy
tropic ocean
This is at the very toplevel of play so decisions might not br as accurate as in a 18 eg
bronze kelp
to be sure, just ask seli directly, he is always trying to help if you have questions
tropic ocean
On st i guess he is doing the same everyone is doinh
Or should be doinh cant spot a big difference
shy axle
@bronze kelp good to know, thanks
violet yew
Lurk
strange python
I recently had a discussion with some people about blockade mythic as a Rogue
in P2 when Sirens spawn on both sides, Melees should usually do the Right Siren. We are two Rogues and we are most likely to be bottom two damage wise on the siren like 150-300k, since one of two things happens:
Either Siren dies in a blink of an eye or We are just kind of Energy Starved
Ofc People who havent ever played any rogue, tell us to pool and cap energy to do more damage on the Sirens, but that feels so incredibly weird
What are your experiences in that case?
rigid mango
Melees should normally not do sirens at all
That's a ranged job, our ranged kill them w no issues apart from late if it has bad overlaps with adds
Either way, assa are horrible at killing them, 3 cp rup and one env is like all I do when I have to kill them
modest tendon
In raiding is it ever worth dotting a target just to get a bit more energy? For example the frozen ballistas in Jaina p1 the tank sometimes moves jaina next to them to aim the ice beam at the fire o. The floor
It’s usually a range problem
stuck knoll
If you were to dot the ballista it would be for more damage
But like it's not an issue to do it afaik
- the energy regen is nice so there's no reason not to I think
quasi pewter
If they live long enough its worth to do for sure
Even if theyre not directly next to boss
modest tendon
In that situation is it worth garrotting them as well knowing they probably won’t last the duration of the dot?
quasi pewter
You can step ballista, rupt garrote and be back at boss in 1-2 seconds from step movespeed
Depends how long they last but if you rupt, garrote should be worth too
modest tendon
Might experiment more with it then, I could probably do a lot more multidotting than I currently am, I’m spending most of my time mastering my rotation though
quasi pewter
Yea you have to get a feel for it, i usually know when the ballistas live longer because raidlead calls when they need to die insta, so when no call comes i just dot
Basically doing reverse of what raidlead says 👌
quasi pewter
More worth? No
stuck knoll
You only really need to burn them down if it's on the same side as the boat
quasi pewter
More worth for boss dps only maybe, but logs>all
You need to do dps stop anyway most of the time
stuck knoll
Sniping no but just dotting them and have them tick out
spice surge
Yeah you do it for the damage, if they die too fast so you dont get value out of the damage its not worth
cobalt gyro
Pretty much just dot them and leave them, if i swap at all
They don't live long enough to be worth your time
stuck knoll
For us at least we never really rush to burn them down ranged just dot them and forget
quasi pewter
Yea its ranges job anyway, but if they live a while dotting is worth
bleak spoke
If they really really need to die ie if they have the person slowing the add mc’d you should sink envenoms into them imo
crisp shard
Anyone knows how the dmg on Visage from Beyond is accounted for in logs/details? Does it count it fully even when it technically doesn’t have any hp to subtract?
On restless cabal
quasi pewter
Yea i think it counts
tropic ocean
@strange python never do siren at all in p2
hollow stone
Or just swap sirens if theyre not dying fast enough. Even 1 env is helpful
Which im assuming is the case since they are asking you to pool before sirens
Yea, sin is not the best for swapping to em. But every little bit counts and losing personal dps > wiping due to sirens
tropic ocean
flame rdps
hollow stone
Oh yea. Def flame rdps
But also just suck it up and do sirens if thats what your group needs
tropic ocean
switching to siren as sin cuz rdps trolling
hollow stone
Lazy bastards
dense falcon
So I just got the lurker trinket from CoS heroic. Anyone tell me if its best to pop it in my opener and like when? Because my opener goes..... stealth/garrote/rupture/garrote/vendetta/toxic blade/envenom i'm just not sure where I should put it
cobalt pelican
it's honestly fine anywhere in the opener
tropic ocean
ijust macro it with vendetta
cobalt pelican
the apl has it cast on the same cast as vanish after vendetta
but most people just macro it like he said
dense falcon
oh dope its not on the GCD then? i like it
didnt realize
So i've read most of the guides but I feel like in M+ im doing this wrong. after i pop out of stealth I can get 3 garrotes out that are empowered is that bad? sitting at full cp?
idk if you have enough time to rupture something and still get 3 garrotes out
dark crag
No
dense falcon
no what lol
dense falcon
ok so thats good then?
cobalt pelican
yes
sharp viper
3x garrote, 1 rupture, 1 non empowered garrote is usually my first 5 gcds in m+, followed by fan into more ruptures and some envenoms, depending on the key and fortified or not
nocturne gate
i currently run 3xeb and 3xttk with 37% crit 11% haste 28%mastery 5% versa should i try ti dumb a bit crit ?
tropic ocean
you should remove 1 ttk or eb and get 1 ss
and no, you should get more mastery and a little more crit is fine too
im at 36/8/41
crit/haste/mastery
nocturne gate
the problem is i have so much socket items with haste on it^^
high ruin
hey guys sorry for the noob question. i'm brand new. it seems like the guide on ravenholdt has a lot of info for openers, but what would be the best resource for the basic rotation past the opener? icyveins? i'm confused on like what I should be doing after vanish and stuff like that. pve
vestal wren
wowhead
tropic ocean
tl:dr : keep dots up, use toxic blade on cd, fit 2x 4cp+ envenom during toxic blade
high ruin
wowhead > iv?
tropic ocean
when vendetta/vanish are off cd, repeat opener
sharp viper
maintain your bleeds, don't overwrite empowered garrotes/ruptures, try to maximize damage for toxic blade/exsa, otherwise build cp for your CDs and fill in envenoms outside of cds if you are 'capped' on cp and energy
noxxic > rest 
high ruin
thank you
visual quartz
But his boss dmg will be amazing 😛
subtle anchor
Does anyone know how the Vision of perfection essence works with Nothing Personal?
vestal wren
thats the vendetta proc? iirc it does
sharp viper
is it the same effect as for a full vendetta tho or scaled down to 6s?
nocturne gate
did u run crit/mastery oder crit/haste weapin ench ?
visual quartz
haste is not good for M+, alot of ppl are sub 5%. raiding is a different story
cobalt pelican
deadly/quick for m+ is pretty common
nocturne gate
wasnt sure at all i dont run that much m+ and chill somewhere on 1,7k rio ^^
sharp viper
isn't that a pain in the ass on non-fortified weeks?
high ruin
2 questions if anybody has time to answer:
why is it worth pooling to 80 energy for envenom?
the 5.4 second window for garrote, does it need to be at 5.4 seconds or can it be at .1 -> 5.4 seconds remaining?
odd hatch
high ruin
ah makes sense
distant lava
@sharp viper the point is you gain more time in the key by going for aoe stats and doing a bit less ST, then by going ST stats and doing low aoe
royal lantern
its not really elobarte planning btw
stuck knoll
The garrote window is simply the time in which you can regarrote and not lose any uptime
royal lantern
its more about the envenom buff, and you want too use mulitate during it cus of DD n stuff
you can more or less ignore EP and it doesnt really make a difference
high ruin
I see
hollow stone
Ideally, you still want to refresh dots as little as possible (meaning closest to 0s remaining). Not a huge diff since we're not a gcd locked spec. But still
The window is to give you some flexibility. Esp when planning for your next tb window
royal lantern
always remember for sin rogue: if your bleeds are up and TB is on cd, you dont lose dps by waiting unless you cap energy
tropic ocean
@nocturne gate im using haste/crit enchants for m+
so I get enough haste to not completely suck on boss
cuz i have 36cirt/42 mastery unbuffed
rigid mango
What aus said, top tier shit
tropic ocean
and at least 2 overwhelming power
would use 3 but I don't have a helmet with eb,ss op so only 2 for now
mint kindle
Hey guys, does anyone know if there is a particular reason this rogue with Noawh is playing Assassination on a +24 please?
https://www.twitch.tv/naowh
Or do you think it's just for the fun of it?
mint kindle
Is The Echoing Blades build better than Outlaw in some cases? And if it is, which ones?
Or is it just the Bolstering, and the fact you can't aggro more than 3-4 mobs at once?
tropic ocean
you can pull pretty big
assa is good for downing high hp health targets with prio dmg
so u can pull big with bolster
mint kindle
So is it better than Outlaw this week?
mint kindle
Doesn't answer my question, which is WHY?
cobalt pelican
why do you play outlaw
hollow stone
Its competitive with outlaw and clearly he enjoys it more
With the right traits, sin and outlaw are extremely close
mint kindle
What would be the traits? 3 x SS & 3 EB?
cobalt pelican
cobalt pelican
if you have questions specifically for him just ask in his stream or here and he normally responds, but the general answer is 'it good'
mint kindle
Do you know his Twitch please? @cobalt pelican
distant lava
Outkaw is better , but sin is very fine, since seli likes sin more he plays it
Incarnated
cobalt pelican
it's on his rio which is linked above
distant lava
You cansee it in rogue streamers channel above @mint kindle
hollow stone
I dont agree with the blanket statement of "outlaw is better". Generally speaking, sure
mint kindle
Thanks for the answer guys!
Just a small question @hollow stone
What does TTK stand for again?
distant lava
Twist the knife
hollow stone
Twist the knife
distant lava
Azerite
cobalt pelican
it's pr etty clear the difference is minor if it even is a difference given he does keys with sebek pretty frequently and the damage numbers are very like.. whatever
mint kindle
Ok thanks 😃
distant lava
Equal skill equally good gear outlaw is better for keys right now
Except maybe for KR
Thats just how it is, sure sin is very close and probably better than most melees
cobalt pelican
i mean if you see an outlaw and assasination rogue in the same key performing similarly well
outlaw has more util, sure, i guess
hollow stone
In a vacuum with the right comp, tank, blah blah blah, sure. I still dont think OL is better by enough of a margin for it to matter. Thats my opinion
distant lava
They have similar dmg outlaw has more utility
hollow stone
Different utility
tropic ocean
dps wise
the higher the key, the more assa > outlaw
just gouge and the bte stuns has very high value
supple compass
When you guys switch to triple ss for parsing in BoD, do you find a way to match your normal st sims or is it natural to sin lower
Sim*
tropic ocean
you switch to triple ss for add fights
or very fast champion kills
in longer fights dd>ss (unless theres adds)
real bay
triple/ double NP 3ss for ezparses
cobalt pelican
ss champs/jadefire/grong/rastakhan/questionably opulence
cobalt pelican
it kinda sucks unless you're the designated parser for the fight
and you don't get allstar points anyway so it's kinda just whatever
hollow stone
Thats cause youre not an allstar. Oooooo. Gotem
cobalt pelican
you just get points based on your best parses
and fights like opulence where you can hardcheese are removed
it's a weenie measuring tool
hollow stone
Dont forget to account for the yaw
signal summit
Out of curiousity how much do the most of u guys sim ?=
signal summit
and what is the highest u guys have seen in here
have just been playing for 3 weeks and i think i have been quite lucky so wanna se what u guys sim
cobalt pelican
like 29.5 i think
is the peak
my character is like 28.5 or something if i have stormglides on
hollow stone
Highest ive seen here recently was just over 29k. Im 28k n a bit at like 418
foggy mist
Sorry for the noobish question, but I'm moving over to rogue from hunter...where WQs/Elites are easy-mode...but on Assassin, for some of the WQ elites, especially on the invasions, the mobs can't be stunned. Am I just out of luck? Or is there a piece to the kit I'm missing?
Thanks in advance
opaque tree
Honestly, just have to avoid any mechanics you can, as well as use leeching poison.
Use evasion when your crimson vile is on cd as well as cloak of shadows.
The more you maximize your damage, the more healing you’ll do to yourself.
There are some azerite traits that help with soloing a little, but honestly once you get enough gear you’ll just kill things before they kill you. Leeching is best way to go
foggy mist
gotcha...Assassin is wayyyy more complicated than BM hunter, which is part of why I want to switch...it was just a reality check to be spending so much time with Bwomsandi
thanks!
cobalt pelican
press evasion cloak feint healthstone macro
there's not really anything to do at lower gear some of the mobs are a pain in the ass actually
opaque tree
You’ll get the hang of it.
foggy mist
Here’s to hoping!
summer parcel
is there any bis list for azerites in m+?
devout temple
looking at videos of the new affix seems like Sin will be easily the choice
no questions
cinder sparrow
hello. Did u guys play with crimson tempest on mm+ ? or TB ?
rigid mango
Uhh
granite beacon
PB is always used over CT
cinder sparrow
y sorry waana say PB or CT
rigid mango
Yes
cinder sparrow
kk ty
vapid scarab
Does CT count as a bleed for venomous wounds?
vapid scarab
Really? That seems odd
civic palm
Does it? Sure it's a bleed, but it would be so hideously unfun that the damage would have to be nerfed into the ground, or the return rate would have to be nerfed to the point where PBomb would still win.
summer parcel
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
vapid scarab
So it does or it doesn’t
Idk it would be kinda cool if it did so we could instantly apply 5 bleeds to maintain fok spam
civic palm
So even more braindead than it might already be.
No thanks.
Would be cool to use it though, and not just PBOMB >_ >
vapid scarab
I mean it opens up the talent
rigid mango
It would be BROKEN
vapid scarab
Now it would actually have a niche
civic palm
I believe the imaging part is the problem here.
vapid scarab
Would be super powerful for funneling as well
vapid scarab
That’s pretty big
civic palm
and we're not playing MfD so the opener is almost just as slow.
distant lava
real fuckbois go HB
civic palm
It's not actually any more damage, just the same damage done sooner.
distant lava
civic palm
_>
and that sounds great, but just leads to you not managing Ruptures and just managing CT.
Which is worse gameplay.
civic palm
IF it were a thing then yeah MfD would be the choice as we wouldn't need the NRG regen from Vigor.
Sure.
civic palm
Even more boring gameplay. No thanks. ❌
We've already the issue of taking SUBs place.
civic palm
brb playing Sin;
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRShift+RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
rigid mango
Sounds good 2 me
vapid scarab
The same damage just done sooner is what burst means
3 extra foks at the very beginning of a pack is a lot of extra burst, especially for short stuff like reaping
civic palm
Bursting also infers that the majority of your damage is done in BURSTS, which isn't what SIN is anywhere.
civic palm
I just vocally corrected myself and didn't type it out because it's not worth it.
The point here is that ;
none of this matters because it isn't a thing.
and doing more burst matters in +5's
vapid scarab
Could even potentially let us run MA in keys since that crit would be applied to 3 foks+echoing blades
I mean is discussion not allowed then?
civic palm
About things that doesn't matter? Doesn't seem worth the time.
You can do it however much you want though, no one stopping you.
vapid scarab
Then don’t reply to it
civic palm
Bingo.
rigid mango
Yes, it would be cool
But I'm just annoying miz
It's smth that'll never happen, CT sucks
hard pagoda
How much are ppl simming ST these days?
civic palm
@ what item level? o _O
rigid mango
Like
hard pagoda
Say around 415-420
rigid mango
27k+
civic palm
30 billion
civic palm
30k, get more sockets.
rigid mango
@harsh sphinx link plis
civic palm
harsh sphinx
it's going, see if im there
solar fable
Newish to rogue, started out outlaw because I mostly like doing m+, but sin is better for higher keys?
time to cry
solar fable
Thank you!
rigid mango
Sin has higher dmg ceilinf, outlaw has fuckton of utility
Unless ur into pure minmax giga keys
Both will work really well, just play w/ever u pref
solar fable
I was in legion, I'd like to get back to that level
solar fable
Thanks though for answering my questions though!
harsh sphinx
marble hemlock
not even 29k
harsh sphinx
lemme borrow your dagger
harsh sphinx
gotta be 29.5 or something, think he's on uunat right now
rigid mango
Ye he is
marble hemlock
harsh sphinx
doesn't even need zulduzar for 29k
civic palm
rigid mango
rigid mango
Off hand really don't matter huh
harsh sphinx
heavy forum
Hello guys. anyone know about a good m+ ingame community for alliance EU?
bleak spoke
Jesus Christ seli 29.4??
rigid mango
What're you at?
vast forum
@marble hemlock no cos boots? slacker
marble hemlock
didnt get them yet 😦
winter moss
harsh sphinx
tforge legend
harsh sphinx
stuck knoll
Wait what rav
Am I missing something
How is TC -> NP 1 gem and swapping enchant hands 600 dps
Like 
flint jetty
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n3u7PnZYpp1xwpRrc4wz2V Might as well join in on the fun
bleak spoke
Am I the only rogue in the world without a lurker’s
Questions that keep me salty at night
harsh sphinx
420 daggers can't complain about lurkers
steep obsidian
opaque tree
I rolled a 420.... haha
celest mirage
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
gaunt rune
What macros do you guys use for issuing multiple bleeds in mythic +
and obviously garrote is a 3 target max coming out of stealth, but what about rupture?
Any best practice on maintaining rupture so you aren't losing dps by running around trying to rupture everything
neon thunder
Macro? Not sure if you can macro it. Just tab garrote X 3. Rupture at least 4 targets, that will keep you never energy starved and just fok. Fok. And maintain envenom buff and more ruptures if feeling energy starved
modest violet
Is there a guide that goes a little deeper in to sin? e.g. someone said you should try and fit in 2x envenom per toxic blade
visual quartz
2 per TB is the base min, if you plan and pool properly you can fit 3
sick verge
Hey guys, I can't find why wowanalyzer is tellin me that I "fail to take full advantage of Master Assassin": https://wowanalyzer.com/report/ZBWQdrVxNK3FATkj/7-Heroic+Grong+-+Kill+(3:26)/Fredsyladam/overview
sick verge
Okay, I will try not to during my next pulls. I guess i'll cast toxic blade just before vanish
cobalt gyro
ideally ya you wanna already have it up when you vanish for MA
ember dagger
is the guide on the website still updated for current?
sick verge
This is the opener from the guide so I'm not sure rn ^^
ember dagger
never played assa rogue but guild is requesting i do so
dont know where to start tbh
midnight flower
How do people not know how to play all 3 specs
ember dagger
not saying i dont know how
midnight flower
I mean I fk around with sub in PvP
modest violet
I don't think I've ever even been in sub spec
fringe epoch
assa is easy to pick up , first decision is if u play MA or not
midnight flower
Sin has been a beast for a longtime
modest violet
There’s a guide in the pins
ember dagger
someone said it was outdated earlier
fringe epoch
what do you want to know though, the openers havent changed since march
sullen pagoda
just go thru rh guide and logs for boss specific things 🤷
ember dagger
alright then cheers
shy dust
So for our 2nd Vendetta with MA we want to use toxic blade before we vanish? So that we can get Env Mut Env in that 3 second window?
warm harbor
why would the opener be different?
shy dust
since i saw earlier someone was saying that idealy
rigid mango
It's the same thing.
rigid mango
warm harbor
Personally I agree with TB before vanish as its more dmg if you get the crits
shy dust
Yeah I was reading Earlier and @cobalt gyro was saying i think for your other vanishes you want to toxic blade before you vanish
so that you can go envenom mut envenom i assume?
civic palm
DD iz good, Mut in MA.
warm harbor
thats correct, but only do the second envenom if the mut crits
warm harbor
So the difference to TB'ing before and after vanish is this, TB'ing before vanish will buff your 2 envenoms within the MA window resulting in a damage increase but you only get the 2 envenoms if your mut crits (if it doesnt crit you suck it up and do a second mut), but if you TB'ing after vanish you ALWAYS go Vanish -> TB -> Mut -> envenom (assuming you enter your vanish with 0 CP's), which is more reliable dmg but overall is less than the other rotation
but even TB'ing after vanish isn't exactly reliable damage (which is just how the MA build is) and TB'ing after vanish results in your NP losing quite a few ticks not being buffed by TB (hence I always make sure my next GCD after ven is TB). In the end with the MA build you are just assuming you get the crits you need during the MA window meaning that you should play the TB before vanish rotation
rigid mango
I mean I'm pretty sure going vend -> vanish -> tb out of vanish -> build spend is the most reliable and highest simming way, no?
Which'll end up with most dps on average
quasi pewter
apl doesnt give a shit about vanish/tb usage outside of opener
literally uses everything on cd and vanish muting aswell
warm harbor
you can use TB on cd and still line it up with vanish?
vapid scarab
yeah
vapid scarab
vanish is a 2min cd, waiting 10 or 5s for it to line up with TB is not going to lose a cast of vanish
civic palm
Depends on boss and kill speed.
warm harbor
you hold vanish for when TB is up**
quasi pewter
if you know you wont lose a cast of vanish vendetta you can hold obviously
vapid scarab
it will be very rare for you to lose a cast of vanish