if u don't have opal
#assassination
pearl bear
im always ruby lol
rigid mango
Same
distant lava
the RH opener for MA is correct ? seems weird that you would TB and not ENV after that
rigid mango
I normally put a muti in before popping vanish
bec I'm greedy
and if it crits, you get 
drifting bramble
assa worth it in M+?
noble tinsel
Yes
civic palm
Yeah sure.
noble tinsel
Read the guide, and you’ll pump damage with right traits
drifting bramble
guide as in ravenholds guide?
rigid mango
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rigid mango
Yes, that one
There's a lot that is unanswered in it
and those questions are fine to ask here
drifting bramble
coolio
knotty falcon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
drifting bramble
any1 recommends WA? i used to have Infexious ones loved those but cant get the mback?
any1 go tnice WA? if so would appreciate the link
civic palm
O _O
rigid mango
limber gust
)
thin patio
!ess
rigid mango
Doesn't work anymore
thin patio
Oh ok sorry
knotty falcon
@civic palm Hey, you there?
rigid mango
He probably is
civic palm
👋
civic palm
Nope took it from from CN dood.
knotty falcon
F
civic palm
There's a lot of ways to do it poorly but he seems to have done it as right as I've seen.
knotty falcon
Yeah
I figured
Spent all evening trying to find some good one that i can change into what i want
And the one i thought would be perfect broke whenever garrote was longer than base duration
civic palm
lol
mighty elm
can they fix Nothing personal on PTR 😦
odd rampart
is wowanalyzer accurate when it comes to assessing dps? it keeps telling me im using my vanish wrong with MA. I usually vanish --> TB into mutilates and envenom and its telling me that I'm wasting MA.
odd rampart
kk
rigid mango
not properly anyways
If you want log review, popping it here'd be a bette ralternative
rigid mango
Well, it's probably true
But at the same time, wrong
Since you should be wasting cp with tb, if the situation calls for it
odd rampart
yeah it is true but it doesnt matter so the fact it flagged that kind of made me wonder if this site was correct
rigid mango
Yeah, it's bad
It's good for checking VERY basic stuff
like overcapping CP/energy (ofc not in this case)
and uptime of bleeds
apart from that, no use
odd rampart
yeah thats what i kind of figured
pastel hatch
Evening. THinking about picking up my rogue again for Season 3 (assa). I was wondering how in AoE situations how many adds do you Garrote (assuming you have Shrouded Suffocation and Echoing Blades). Do you use rupture as finisher or envenom as well?
rigid mango
You garrote x3
Then rupture, then build again and rupture again
at that point, 5 bleeds out, you have inf energy reg until they drop off
Then you choose to spam fok if you're at 5+ targets, or pump envenoms
Depends on the situation and the pack, but that's generally it
pastel hatch
Cool. So the max amount of mobs you keep garrote up on is 3 and rupture is 2?
rigid mango
No
after the first 3 garrotes, in aoe you don't re-garrote
but you'd re apply rupture
in sustained heavy aoe, say big fort pack etc
You'd want to be reappplying bleeds, aka rupture, before garrote starts falling off enitrely
to keep the inf energy gain up
pastel hatch
Ahh didnt get the not reapplying garrote. But you still stick to a maximum of 2 ruptures out on the pack (which you re-apply).
pastel hatch
On every mob in the pack?
rigid mango
Depending on the size of the packs too
pastel hatch
Youre not reapplying garrote since non shrouded ones are not worth the globals?
rigid mango
Exactly.
pastel hatch
Cool. So using vanish to reapply them is not a thing?
pastel hatch
Makes sense
rigid mango
Certain packs are better to vanish
like casters by 2nd boss in fh
Casters before 2nd boss td
pastel hatch
Cool. Got it. Now just to get some good traits
pastel hatch
thx
supple compass
Will ss sim properly agains the usual st traits
Like does the apl use vanish properly
arctic socket
rich wren
yes, it's just dispellable so not as good .
rancid blaze
Is it worth it to use rupture on the reaping mobs considering they die so fast or just fan and enevenom?
nimble oracle
Well I run 3 ss 3 eb and when reaping is up I just fok, night rupture a few for energy bursts but just fok fok fok
rigid mango
You want to use a couple ruptures
You normally go garrote 3x
and then fok spam
rupture snipe the low hp targets for energy back
and just keep fok spamming
rancid blaze
ok thanks
leaden garden
I just got kicked before my td+9 started bcs i wasnt outlaw:(
vapid scarab
[]
strange python
so i've seen, was running eb/ss 3x before that, and just had little boss dmg so i think ttk will help that
rigid mango
Tbh, ss does more boss dmg than ttk
So not really?
It's very smooth to play though
Jack of all traits
fading ocean
wouldn’t it depend on how many vanishes u get to decide if ss>ttk?
that would come down to specific boss and or tyrannical week
longer fight = ttk?
rigid mango
I mean sure, but ss is better
fading ocean
idk i dont play sin
rigid mango
Technically
fading ocean
i was genuinly curious
fading ocean
that makes sense tho, ss is the safer trait
it depends on the key and affixes imo
ttk dmg is hardly comparable to ss since instant dmg vs dot
fading ocean
priority dmg vs a dot
on non fort weeks i could see ttk pulling ahead in value
maybe not necessarily pure damage output
rigid mango
Yes, obviously
they have diff strengths
but on raw st, ss is more dmg
He said boss damage, so
One is even better at cleave, the other gets better if you have prio targets
Not just dps output, but value of the dps
quiet abyss
Am new to wow and stuff i started to play outlaw and some my friends said to try assasin aswell but i see no cleave skills on him or am missing something out ? Is assasin just singel target burst?
rigid mango
It's quite single target focused, yes
But it's based on your traits, your aoe comes from fan of knives
there's a trait that amplifies it even more, and that one makes it quite insane
quiet abyss
Oh ok so its just that skills okay,and i need proper azerite traits
rigid mango
Yep
quiet abyss
Thank you
golden relic
giga azerites on babypig in the mdi lulw
elfin valley
anyone know how sin is looking in 8.2?
shy axle
good so far
modest tendon
So I have 3xEB, 2xTTK and 1xSS as my standard build, I just got a 400 piece which will enable me to go for 2xEB, 2xTTK and 2xSS which I’ll use for KR and ToS, is downgrading to a 400 piece worth it for more optimal builds on those dungeons?
merry zinc
what are u guys using on ML this week? 3eb 2ttk 1ss?
rotund mural
3x eb good for atal 16?
young meteor
@modest tendon ive wondered the same thing. The dungeonslice beta on raidbots seems unreliable.
fringe narwhal
So in the rogue discord they tend to trust Dungeon Slice more than most. It is a good tool but you do have to keep in mind it is mainly focused on ST and small cleave with a bit of small aoe. So it doesn't consider the aoe on larger pulls even tho for many that is the majority of pulls.
leaden garden
Hey guys. If one were to only play one rogue specc for m+ (lvl10-15) and raids (HC mainly, with a few mythic bosses) , would asa or outlaw be the better pick?
dusky tinsel
For that level of content its whatever you enjoy, as any class/spec can do those levels np
In 8.2 the meta will likely shift towards assassination for M+, so if you like to plan ahead, that might give you more longevity
leaden garden
Thanks man. Good info. I guess it's too early to speculate about wich specc will perform best in the upcoming raid
proud wren
I feel like switching to horde
spice surge
Dungeon slice is generally trusted among outlaws
Because their rotation doesnt vary depending on targets as much
It is definitely not reliable så assa though
mossy zealot
what're the pref'd Assassination PvP talents? I got an idea but wana confirm.
vapid scarab
why do i sometimes get put in combat with sapped mobs if I'm fighting something else next to them? they aren't tethered packs, I just mean in open world
dark crag
They sense you hurting their friends
It makes no sense, but making sapped mobs never aggro will break m+ stuff for sure
dark crag
Mobs in groups aggro when you fight the others
Normaly in openworld mobs are not grouped but i think the same mobtype work like groups, but it is very random
I did the naga elite wq a few hours ago. I sapped a mob and fought another it aggroed. I did the same near another, like 2m away, but it didn't aggro
bleak spoke
Can someone explain the blood rite build
flint jetty
Isn't blood rite a haste p[roc though?
rigid mango
Ye
modest tendon
so Iv seen a rogue doing an ML19 using a build using 2xDD, 2xSS, 1xNP, 1xEB - The rest of the dps an Unholy and a DH were balls deep into aoe damage, have you guys ever heard of this kind of build before? how do you rate it?
rigid mango
Yeah I've seens tuf flike this, but I'd still say it's really bad
Having 1 or maybe 2 Np can be ok in a situation like that
modest tendon
i get it, I dont think i like it, hes a better player than me though so what can I say haha
rigid mango
but even then, sheesh
esp in ml, where it's all trash
Bar third boss, that's a pain
modest tendon
Hmmm so you'd recommend going NP if you really want to go single target
rigid mango
Yeah, 1 np could be good in high KR/ToS keys
But evne then, just going another SS is more or less equal
On boss, a bit worse, but i the end of the dungeon? huge diff
stuck knoll
Just cuz someone is high ranked or doing big keys doesn't mean everything they're doing is perfect/correct
Even good/great players make mistakes
bleak spoke
If you want to have ST sin stuff for big ml keys you can hearth with your tank to the hozen throne outside when they swap for never surrender
polar dagger
question. iv'e been messing around with the last talent between CT and PB. idk which one really is the btter choice.
bleak spoke
CT is too slow now
bleak spoke
At 5+ mobs with just 2 echoes fok is highe dpet
So it’s not even worth it to press ct
modest tendon
CT takes away from your priority target damage as well, HB is better if you want padding
bleak spoke
I think seli worked out that hb actually doesn’t even pad better than pb
polar dagger
hmmmm
bleak spoke
On overall
bleak spoke
Yeah even w/3 echo
bleak spoke
He plays good tho
bleak spoke
Yeah
rigid mango
Since he's actually playing correctly
it seems like those are the numbers to look at
not rando plebs
rigid mango
Yeah, idk
It's braindead to do it simple
but to do it properly like he does, shit hard
nutty player
modest tendon
I can barely do the single target rotation perfectly in raids never mind m+ when loads of things are going on
Such a steep learning curve
bleak spoke
Yeah if you play it degen like put out bleeds and put a weight on your fok key while leaning back
bleak spoke
It’s super easy and does better damage than like most specs in m+
rigid mango
idk, using right ability at right time
bleak spoke
If you can actually play for saving time on packs it’s very hard
But the damage kit is super strong for it
vapid scarab
what is the "proper" way then
bleak spoke
Depends from comp to comp
bleak spoke
But you want to output abilities that will make it so the pack dies faster in general right
Reaping is best example
There’s a lost soul with 2m hp and all smallies have like 400k
vapid scarab
right, so the way anyone "should" be playing
rigid mango
Like, you have to realise
bleak spoke
You should sit on the lost soul with tb and snipe ruptures to get energy back to sink more envenoms into the lost soul
rigid mango
that you shouldn't be playing for fucking
end of dung dps
Sin is so good at doing "valuable dps"
bleak spoke
Because that makes the time spent on the pack less than if you shat out foks
rigid mango
instead of just braindead padding
bleak spoke
Your overall is less but the dungeon went faster
bleak spoke
When timer becomes very tight like in wf keys or bleeding edge keys you make the timer with seconds to spare and lots of those dps decisions to consciously not pad make the difference
@rigid mango have you seen seli’s motherlode
bleak spoke
Yeah idk if it’s still the best ml anymore but the wf one
bleak spoke
It is big good I recommend watching it
modest tendon
Only just heard of seliathan, is he around about the best sin rogue in the world?
rigid mango
yeah
bleak spoke
I’d say he’s the best I’ve seen
rigid mango
m+ wise, definetly
He's the highest ranking, and probably the best
And he's semi active in here
pops in and out, always answers questions
modest tendon
Haha, he uses all of the builds you guys recommend, now I know where you get it from
bleak spoke
Nah he came up with ttk
rigid mango
I mean yeah, he uses the best builds
And he's yeah
the first avid user of ttk
the preacher of ttk
bleak spoke
We use the stuff he recommends*
modest tendon
Ttk is so good though
bleak spoke
Yeh but hard to play
dark crag
How can it be hard?
bleak spoke
Cuz while the playstyle is similar to subtlety, the energy regen, tb window and crit rng make it so there’s multiple decision trees when you set up for a pull
And all of this assumes you have the dungeon knowledge to know where to put your damage which was why sub was hard
modest tendon
I think a sign your getting better is realising how hard the spec is to play well, that’s what Iv notist anyway haha
bleak spoke
What if there’s more than 1
dark crag
Then you press tab and kill the one it first selected
bleak spoke
Question is harder than with sub
Cuz you can’t just Tb the other one too like you can with nightblade
Idk when I push very often I want to play sin but most of time I have to accept that realistically I can’t play it well enough to actually shave off time
dark crag
You can't save a high key alone
bleak spoke
You can
With iron wire
In shrine at least
At least 1 of my failed 23 shrines would have been timed with sin over outlaw
If I played it to the standard I play outlaw
modest tendon
What specifically did you fail on?
bleak spoke
like the exact moment we lost those keys sin would have fixed
dark crag
Casters probably
bleak spoke
running out of kicks for 2 tempests and 1 water blast
before second boss in the pull to the right
that's a vanish 3 garrote
modest tendon
Outlaw has stuns for days though?
bleak spoke
and then we live
2 gouges gone on wash away to extend the timer on water blast wipe, 1 stun lost to ironhull stop from bte, other bte stun lost to a water blast that was offtimer from the attempt to double spell reflect a set of water blasts
cuz if you gouge wash away it recasts it's almost always accurate to do that
dark crag
Wasn't wash away a ground based thing?
bleak spoke
in that particular scenario tank zandalari wouldn't have been interrupted by water blast and he would have lived etc
also w/iron wire silence you stop water blasts for 6 seconds right but the damage reduction is actually 8 seconds so even if the castgoes out after if it was a low overkill like it was it would have been lived with the 15%
modest tendon
In really high keys does everything need to be interrupted or it’s wipe?
visual quartz
important things, and higher keys, more spells become more important to interupt
bleak spoke
like there's resources to when stuff goes off - defensives, purges, dispels etc
but at some point you run out of those
like sin opener on a pack with vanish is a cumulative 36 seconds of silence
that is actually nuts
dark crag
I looked up wash away and it is that cast that makes a swirl on the ground.
modest tendon
Does your group take the time to decide specifically what spells are interrupted with what ability? That’s pretty in depth if it does
dark crag
Step out of it?
bleak spoke
and every moment it's casting wash away it's not casting water blast
well yeah exactly
you can expect everyone in the group to dodge those so that literally makes them not dangerous
which is why you want to gouge it to force it to recast it
visual quartz
hes talking about forcing the mob to recast the non dangerous cast
bleak spoke
because that's a dead zone in the damage they're doing
dark crag
Ah ok thats good
bleak spoke
like the upper limit of time you can stop an attendant w/outlaw is if you gouge blind and then stun the cast right
but you only stop one of them for ~8 seconds like that
compared to silencing 3 for 6 seconds each
whcih is why shrine you get a lot of control out of sin
with crippling poison + stop on casters tank actually gets to kite
without needing to be able to line the casters
one of the big weaknesses in control w/2 outlaw rogues is that it DRs all the dangerous mobs too much for stuns because you need to focus damage into them so you have to bte them basically
but with assassination you actually make it so mobs are dr'd less so the other rogue is more effective in his stops to begin with
dark crag
Double outlaw is a mdi thing
bleak spoke
nah
msot of my high keys are done with double outlaw
cuz they're mostly friends list pugs
so you don't need super super coordination
you just need to assign someone a marker
dark crag
You achieve the same with assa+outlaw
bleak spoke
not in the same way
like say in shrine again, with two outlaw rogues, the pack before the elemental on the bridge, each of them gets 1 of the tempest kicks and each of them gets one of the whirling slams with stun/gouge
and tank can sit on the aoe fear for when they run out of stops etc
but without gouge then you start running into situations of different stun drs etc
yeah you can play around it
but it's always easier to not have to play around something
so when we pull that pack no matter which rogue friend i'm playing with, which tank or which healer, it's easy as saying "I'm responsible for these two markers, he's responsible for those other two"
dark crag
And then the caster group you mentioned gets you in trouble
bleak spoke
yep
cuz suddnely we're saying stuff like "TYPHOON PLEASE NOW"
or "RING RING RING RING RING"
or calling for shit like vanish cheaps
and it's sooo messy l0l
dark crag
Ring ring ring and monk is like "hello, monk here. Who's there?"
bleak spoke
lol basically
young socket
CT ever worth the global (or even speccing) with 3x EB?
sinful badger
Always PB? I have 3x SS
Is 3x SS still a thing or no. I’m coming back from 8 month break lol
rigid mango
Yeah
vapid scarab
quick question, does cloak only remove things with the "magic" tag, or will it dispel anything that does magical damage, ie. poisons, curses, etc. and not just "magic"
civic palm
It will remove magical effects, unless they've been flagged otherwise.
civic palm
and like curses and stuff.
vapid scarab
oh, but it doesn't remove poisons?
rigid mango
ye
civic palm
and diseases.
rigid mango
wdym
vapid scarab
it says it does remove poisons and diseases
rigid mango
Yeah, like we said
sour wraith
vapid scarab
oh, I was confused because i said "but it doesn't remove poisons?" and you said yeah
plush remnant
I have Raiment(chest), slithering loa(helm), and tentacle-laced(shoulder) for azerite gear. Would that be viable for m+?
rigid mango
Tell me the traits
plush remnant
1x echoing, 1x shroud, 2x DD, and either 1x SoB 1x NP or 2x SoB
rigid mango
It's horrible
plush remnant
That's what I thought lol
plush remnant
I'll probably wait for 8.2. Saving azerite to get a head start
civic palm
yeee
plush remnant
Gears good for outlaw but I like assassination more for pve
civic palm
?
rigid mango
@marble hemlock
civic palm
Traits saved by run or just taken from Archive?
modest tendon
hopefully are saved by run
civic palm
:3
modest tendon
Ah, that makes more sense haha
marble hemlock
yeah, was 3eb/2ttk/1eb
but trash dies so fast, there was no reason to play it
so if i were to do another one, id play 2eb/3ttk/1ss again
modest tendon
Why the extra ttk?
civic palm
If the trash dies too fast you want to pump into prio. target to get things moving.
modest tendon
Ah so the high health mob dies at the same time everything else does for instance
civic palm
👍
marble hemlock
you dont really pull high health mobs anyway
its jnust that theres no real sustained aoe pulls
trash isnt threatening in FH since you can just kite it
modest tendon
Is it for extra boss damage you take it?
marble hemlock
prio/st ye
modest tendon
One last question, is there ever a reason to take CT or HB or should you take PB pretty much every dungeon?
marble hemlock
PB pretty much everywhere
modest tendon
Ty 😃
spice frost
question about sims. I have a 400 galecallers, 410 azerokks, and 415 lurkers. Lurkers and gale seem like the best combo but in sims lurkers and azerokks is best, gale and azerokk 2nd, lurker and gale last. Difference of about 700 between each pair. So lose ~1.4k sim dps equipping both on uses. Is this correct due to lineups/not being able to use both or is the api just not capable of accounting for it?
i would think lurkers on pull, gale on 2nd and 4 tb, lurkers w vend again should be the correct way to handle both trinkets. any input?
spice frost
ok, i guess i need to keep farming fh/sob then ><
tropic ocean
yep 😄
flint jetty
did a FH a little while ago got myself a 420 dice lmao
rigid mango
gz
split sapphire
Hello mates, i have a head 400 with doble douse and garrote trait and head ingenieri who is best? in Raidboots is best ingenieri head
Its for Blokade MM and JainaMM
rotund mural
Hello, is it worth taking 1 NP for tyrannical weeks?
rotund mural
thanks
vapid turtle
I could not find it in the pins. Is there a guide on what essences are going to be good in 8.2 and how to farm them?
rigid mango
No.
not yet, when the patch gets nearer there'll be a guide
When we know what builds people will be running etc
vapid turtle
Thanks!
fringe narwhal
how is sin mplus ramp up time compared to outlaw
shy axle
3x garrote -> Rup -> FoK spam while holding 4/5 bleeds up. I would say longer but not that bad
rigid mango
You need your bleeds up
So it takes 3 g -> rup -> fok -> rup -> fok spam
Which is ways longer than bf and ss
gusty sorrel
@fringe narwhal go back to ele 
bleak spoke
@rigid mango you mean way longer*?
leaden garden
Whats the correct st opener with MA again?
stuck knoll
Check the guide in the pins it has it
rigid mango
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
elder gulch
Any assa rogues try out the new affix? thoughts on it from an assa perspective?
rigid mango
It's good for assa
We'll end up becoming sub rogues probably
ttk's, maybe even an NP
elder gulch
so just big prio mdg?
rigid mango
Yep,
elder gulch
nice
rigid mango
Seemingly good for prio classes
Yet to see everything fleshed out etc
still time for a lot of changes
elder gulch
poor sub rogue lol. two seasons where they woulda been monsters pre-nerf
elder gulch
I hope so. having 3 specs being used regularly is the good shit
dark crag
To the gutter with it
elder gulch
I don't see outlaw being bad. Their utility is pretty busted
rigid mango
solemn meadow
He wants me to spec elusiveness instead of cheat death
distant lava
feint is broken on that fight
rigid mango
Not with elusiveness though
distant lava
in the sense as most shit doesn't count as aoe
serene basin
anyone have a simple "vendetta" active WA?
rigid mango
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
bleak spoke
@solemn meadow cheat is meh on that fight cuz it doesn’t let you live a debuff
bleak spoke
I think elu means you can soak the crushing doubt without too much help
Cuz feint doesn’t work with fall off dam
solemn meadow
and since our healers randomly dispell anyway
bleak spoke
Idk I haven’t pulled cabal but I watched dratnos do a bunch of it
azure matrix
Yo asuming both targets have poisons on them. Does rupturing one and garrote on the other generate as much energy as garrote and rupture on the same target?
leaden garden
If one is at 3/4 cp and TB is off cd, whats a good amount of energy to pool till before TB?
dark crag
As much as possible without ever capping energy
300 iq play would be 169 energy when pressing tb inbetween bleed ticks
But the risk is too high
visual quartz
rupture generates more engery than garrote I believe
dark crag
They have different tick rates before haste?
I thought it was every 2 secs for both
Wowhead says both tick every 2 secs
spice surge
Both ticks at every 2/1+haste seconds
tropic ocean
@spice surge not sure on details my rupture always has 1 tick more than garrote
(on same duration)
dark crag
Wierd, garrote is the first spell ma/supter use
Ma uses rupture as third and supter as second in st
civic palm
_>
dark crag
(°?°)
solid nova
solid nova
Not sure what you're trying to say but it doesn't make sense
solid nova
Unless you're comparing identical fights, just stats alone isn't that useful
buoyant coyote
Its just my personal experience on Jaina M atm
strange python
🤔
solid nova
You're progressing?
So ofc your dps will fluctuate based on the wipe %
Because other than that there's no factual context in which your comment is correct
strange python
^^
sullen hollow
does anyone here use the tidesage legs from 1st boss in cos?
how good are they
are they worth it
lost horizon
wipe %, different mechanics, strict rng... lots of factors
@sullen hollow they're good
dark crag
i wanted a eb piece and i got goraks, i'll never win
civic palm
lol
dark crag
what do i do with 2 of them?
rigid mango
Realise that rolling is bad and you wasted your residuum
distant lava
@rigid mango not really worth saving tho
at best I'll have 10k without counting the scrap of the items I have at the start of next season
rigid mango
Better than wasting it on a dps gain that doesn't matter
strange python
yup
u'll have to do atleast +15 weekly key 2 weeks in a row
and you'll have enough for mythic piece
btw, are they changing m+ difficulty level ?
so current +15 is like 8.2 +10
cobalt gyro
LOL
marsh fjord
is 8.2 reducing our downtime with the new essences system. i heard something of a friend with 6 seconds vendetta or something could someone enlight me
vapid scarab
why would vendetta uptime do anything to downtime
dry thicket
because it generates energy
marsh fjord
^^
cobalt gyro
you'll more likely ot have less downtime because of having more energy with the energy refund essence
vapid scarab
does the essence vendetta trigger NP when it procs?
cobalt gyro
yes
visual quartz
Id say first week itll be great, then they'll nerf it cause its gonna be too strong 😛
royal lantern
im actually suprised when assassination is one of the top5 specs that can abuse that essence, cus there are other classes where a free cd proc does way more
strange python
should i make feral or assa rogue for 8.2?
nimble tartan
u ever wipe 1% on uunat pepehands
kindred chasm
hmm, dicking on PTR and noticed that sometimes Vendetta doesn't apply NP
it seems like if you queue up another cast immediately after Vendetta, NP fails
yeah, consistently, if you have another spell queued NP fails
edit: disregard, this shit is just broken outright
fleet whale
Are the pants from Crucible good?
civic palm
But yeah sure they gud.
wanton swan
I used them for 1 day and then went back to my 410 socketed pants. The proc gave between .8% and about 2.5% single target dps.
nimble tartan
i ilke em a lot seem real good on long bosses usually around 2-2.5%
tacit knoll
any1 else noticed reduced uptime on wandering soul?
cobalt pelican
reduced as in less than 1ppm from logs or
tacit knoll
i am doing mekka progress about 2,5 weeks ago i had 20% uptime
last 2 weeks(still most of tries dont involve intermission) i have 14-16%
tropic ocean
@tacit knoll how is it compared to your overall boss uptime
leaden garden
Asa with right aoe traits can be as good as outlaw in m+? Got 3eb 2ss 1ttk, but unsure if i should just rather play outlaw
upbeat hazel
How viable is assa in m+ compared to outlaw? When should i use it please?
leaden garden
Tbh i never tried outlaw, not since legion. But i like asa, might just stick with it
tacit knoll
@tropic ocean rougly same uptime on EP around 50% i notice a a significant drop on wandering soul uptime close to 4%
tropic ocean
50% ep uptime is low as well
heres my uptimes from last mekka
my bbi uptime is usually somewhere around 20~25%
sometimes lower sometimes higher
if you get to play a lot of stuff in mekka bots/bomb obviously lower
leaden garden
When you guys plan for your TB windows, do you get to 3/4 cp before? And then pool like to 60 energy before using TB? More than 60?
cobalt gyro
Pretty much you only cast anything outside of burst windows to avoid capping energy
No tb? Sit on energy, mutilate only to prevent you from overcapping
quasi pewter
well and to chain EP
dark crag
No
cobalt gyro
ep matters more inside those burst windows. Making sure you have enough energy to have EP up for most of your cooldown is more important than chaining EP outside of cooldowns
tropic ocean
you don't chain ep it naturally has about 70%ish uptime on non heavy movement fights
by just planning and pooling properly
quasi pewter
you still want to clip envenom into EP outside of tb
dark crag
You pool, spend on finisher, build while ep/env are up and pool again outside cds
leaden garden
Ok gottcha! So when i pool, its ok if i dobt use tb on cooldown like the guide says? Better to get 3/4 cp and good energy before?
quasi pewter
use tb on cd
u have to plan ahead
even if you have no energy, use it on cd, low cd makes it not worth to hold in case you miss a cast over duration of the fight
leaden garden
If i happen to have 2cp and tb comes off cd, due to bad planning, do i mutil before tb?
quasi pewter
no
leaden garden
Ok. So then i might only get 1 env in that tb window, if planned poorly..
quasi pewter
usually shouldnt be a problem to get atleast 2 in every time
knotty falcon
Even if you start at 0 cp you should be able to get at least 2 env
Except if you pooled like no energy
rigid mango
Yeah just uninstall
cobalt gyro
2 is mandatory, 3 in tb is a luxury
rigid mango
4 
cobalt gyro
That's just being very lucky
cobalt gyro
Just always crit 
rigid mango
Ez 100 log 
rigid mango
Yeah, it's what it is
knotty falcon
AKA assas 5 buff 
lone junco
if only you could control 5b by using a crit trinket.
exotic rose
Hey guys, what is the ideal traits for tyrannical weeks? Is EB still worth to use on 15+ keys?
rigid mango
Yes
exotic rose
Couldn’t find on the guides.
exotic rose
Ok. Why ttk? Couldn’t find that on guides too.
rigid mango
Because prio damage is good
rigid mango
TC is worse.
exotic rose
Oki
rigid mango
Getting ttk means you get the prio focused dmg into one target
exotic rose
So 3 EB in any dungeon affix combination? (15+ keys)
vestal wren
*priorizing env in aoe means...
exotic rose
Gotcha. So just 3 ruptures?
rigid mango
I mean not really
3 eb isn't always good, it's simple
and since you're asking that question, you don't need anything more
more aoe dmg will be good for you
vestal wren
TC is not a bad trait, you just probably dont want to not use it on higher keys due to the downsides
rigid mango
Literally take any combination of ttk/eb/ss and you'll be set
exotic rose
👍
rigid mango
Don't worry about changing shit until you hit higher keys
vestal wren
TC is also fine unless you go into very high ones
rigid mango
Worse than a mix of those 3 though 😄
vestal wren
not sure about that
rigid mango
Unless there's an ilv diff, 100%
if you just want more dmg tc is better
but if you want actually valuable damage
Those are way better.
tropic ocean
theres also not such good pieces that have good combinations of tc+x+x
its basically just the champions helm with ss/tc/op
shoulders are bad cuz eb is in same row as tc and other trait is np/dd
mekka chest bad too for m+
bleak spoke
Even with it being on favorable pieces it seems it goes against how you want to do you damage
waxen valve
Very basic question: for ma build, vanish before vendetta then tb in ma window or vendetta-vanish-tb? (Nothing personal can be snapshotted?)
I saw different uses in high logs.
dark crag
When people use vanish before vendetta you delete them from this planet
Also it shows again that you can be garbage and get a high log
Blizz should remove this snapshot stuff
hidden plinth
can someone help me i will reroll back to assa for 8.2 and atm we tried to reclear bod, but my dps is irregular (i know our raidwide dps is for some trys pretty low) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/PgCZF6nyH2D7Wkj3#fight=7.9.11.15.17.18.20&type=damage-done can someone give me some suggestions
dark crag
And soon the sub buffs happen 
I looked at try 6 and why did you use vend so late? Was it on cd?
hidden plinth
we got some pretty shit ship timing we need 2 mins to 2.15 mins for the ship and don't want to waste vendetta for the ship
we already needed to do dmg stops
hidden plinth
oh i failed the opener in the first try a bit ... and yeah i played the right ship
dark crag
Where is your outlaw friend?
hidden plinth
rightside too
dark crag
Ok slap your raidlead and go left ship
dark crag
You are an ma rogue, left has more hp
dark crag
Brother joseph?
rigid mango
You don't deal with mechanics either way i guess
doesn't matter
he ports at 50%
to the other ship
and you need to deal with woman
dark crag
They do on hc too
rigid mango
yeah so always right
not on normal, then it's left
the dude is way easier for ranged to deal with
than melee
standing on edges dropping shit is so easy for ranged
dark crag
Every pug i played on hc melees went to kathleen
rigid mango
idk 🤷
on mythic it's much easier to be on the side brother isn't
and on mythic you hyper blast early
they port to other side
and you only have to deal with kathleen
and she's easy for melee
brother is aids as you need to move and drop, your raid lead is correct, luhmi is wrong
Either way you should be letting her cast and not deal with mechanics so
hidden plinth
is there any major rotation problems ? some opener i reach nearly 60k dps and other i can barly reach 40k ...
dark crag
We sorted by dmg, kathleen gets the burst people, brother the sustained or late people like outlaw when they finally get good rolls
hidden plinth
i was in every pull i just marked the pulls there we reach p2
rigid mango
You should be using rup and then vanish + vendetta + tb
you're doing it wrong order
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rigid mango
Check the MA opener there
you low up time on both dots
atleast lower than you should have
dark crag
You are the second who wants to vanish into vendetta
rigid mango
both should aim to be at 95%+
dark crag
Whats happening?
rigid mango
You missed 2x TB casts through out the fight which isquite big
not sure if you're holding
for something, or what you're doing, but 2x tb casts are quite big
I think yout triple DD'd once
Muti*
Other than that, fine
cobalt pelican
I find brother significantly easier as melee
rigid mango
You should be saving 2nd pot to hero
cobalt pelican
but I think it depends a lot on the other players in the group
rigid mango
I believe it's more value to pot during hero than your burst
iirc
since you're not heroing during your burst
wdym fiary
like, in general or starting on that side
hidden plinth
think the problem with holding TB was that we did every try 1 to 2 dmg stops because the left side slacked
rigid mango
Yeah then if you know that, no issue
cobalt pelican
starting
dark crag
I also think brother is easy
rigid mango
Starting brother is easy
hidden plinth
ok thx guys we will see how it go on we will start with jaina on wednesday hopefully i will not slack as much with the opener
rigid mango
you burst it, then you get kathleen and u afk
nothing to do but hit her and hit the siren
dark crag
I burst kathleen as ma assa and then just afk brother
hidden plinth
Does someone already did the theocrafting for 8.2?
rotund mural
Feels good
vapid scarab
what would you say is the biggest thing that makes or breaks your dps as assa? other than something super basic like "keep bleeds up." TB windows?
modest tendon
tb is the difference between a good rogue and a mediocre rogue
trying to keep dots up while focussing on a priority target is a struggle for me
also my rotation can get fucked up when mechanics come into play but i guess thats natural
vapid scarab
I feel like I often come across the situation where im at 5cp and TB just came off CD, is that just a case of planning better?
modest tendon
you loose a cb though
distant lava
@rigid mango am I right ?
vapid scarab
okay, that's good to know
modest tendon
i dont doubt that you dont loose much damage but you still loose a bit of damage
vapid scarab
but ideally you don't do that right
spice surge
well
modest tendon
in those situations i would tb at 5 cbs but its still inneficaint
spice surge
You cant control if your previous mutilate crit or not
If you're at 3 cp with tb 1 second left and you mutilate to 5 then yeah thats a mistake
But if you're at 2 and you get 5 then its w/e
Also, you'd rather have a 30% buffed envenom than 1cp, since 1cp is essentially 20% of an envenom (slightly less because of energy costs ofc, but still)
rigid mango
ye @distant lava
vapid scarab
well couldn't you have the 1 cp and the 30% buffed envenom?
spice surge
Sometimes yes, most of the time no
If you garrote to 1 cp, then mutilate and get 4cp from that mutilate
Theres no planning you couldve done to prevent that overcap
because of rng crits
vapid scarab
how bad is it to have to use a 4cp env in TB
spice surge
?
vapid scarab
well ideally you would want to use only 5cp envenoms right, but sometimes crits don't let you
vapid scarab
just wondering how much rng affects your overall dps in TB windows
spice surge
a lot
vapid scarab
so basically just play the best that you can while bearing in mind that sometimes crit rng can force you to do something that in a perfect world you wouldn't have to
is that the correct way to think about it?
hollow lynx
I found for me creating a weak aura that tracks the cooldown of Toxic blade with a sound prompt when its about to come back off Cooldown has given me better TB usage.
so might be worth doing that if you're struggling to maximize the usage on TB to make mini burst windows for PB Procs
rigid mango
Yes, crit rng makes a huge diff
when u can double cp income
obv crit has huge diff
vapid scarab
but there's nothing you can really do about it sometimes so you just have to learn the best ways to deal with it
rigid mango
how is this not obvious
Yes, there's nothing you can do about crits
and rng
yuou are corect.
correct*
vapid scarab
a lot of the time TB also comes up right as I need to refresh rupture or something, how do you best deal with that
hollow lynx
Bleed Management on your primary target is huge, as well as combo point management
tracking cooldowns
little things in personal play
maximizing your positioning so you don't have to move as much
vapid scarab
yeah, honestly this spec has a lot more planning than WW
you plan like 10+ seconds in advance sometimes
hollow lynx
Difference between doing 25k on Grong/Blockade and 28k
vapid scarab
i really like it tho, i always thought assa was a really basic spec, basically just "keep up bleeds", but there's a lot of nuance to it that i really like
hollow lynx
Energy management can be pretty big, so using a WA Energy bar can be helpful as well.
vapid scarab
rigid mango
like, the biggest skill check with assa is tb
and how to use it properly
You just need to get the feel for it, and then when you do it becomes much more smooth
I never used any of the wa's or anything like that
just go hit a fucking dummy and learn to use what when
fading ocean
WAs shouldn’t be for learning anyway, should be for easier access of information when you’re midpull
rigid mango
Wa's can defo be for learning
if it helps you, sure
But I think just hitting a dummy is more efficient than just tossing yourself into a real situation instantly without doing shit properly
lost horizon
I always found making your own WAs helps figure shit out
Cause you need to figure out what you wanna track, and then you know exactly where that info is cause you made it yourself
Even if it's just basic icons and progress bar stuff
wary ice
vapid scarab
Do you ever use TB in an aoe scenario? I assume just when funneling into a prio target
rigid mango
yes
vapid scarab
but if you're not funneling, then it's not worth, correct?
rigid mango
Yeah
lost horizon
I mean even if you're not hard funneling it's worth once you have bleeds out
Cause you'll still envenom to refresh EP
Just not exactly a game changer
rigid mango
I mean, on heavy aoe you don't env to refresh EP
lost horizon
Though I guess that requires at least something in the pack to have high enough health to be worth
There's no point in rupturing if you're fine on energy
vapid scarab
what's the max amount of targets it's worth env just to keep up EP
lost horizon
Not sure about that one tbh
lost horizon
@marble hemlock you spam FoK exclusively or envenom to refresh EP on AoE? (Assuming enough bleeds out to sustain energy)
shy axle
even at 3 or 4 t or where do you set the breakpoint from "okay, gonna use the env" and only foking because its best?
spice surge
But if you're gonna continue to aoe for a bit then its worth to space out your ruptures to utilize EP
But if they're dying soon dont bother
marble hemlock
exactly, yeah
ideally you get both
but if you have to choose, then fok for AoE, finishing for prio is the way to go
lost horizon
Finishing to refresh EP even in AoE must not be crazy far behind then, but good to know
Imma have to adjust
spice surge
Depends on how many EBs you're running
marble hemlock
so every 3 foks, instead of casting a 4th fok, you do something that only boosts the damage of 3 foks
napkin-math would dictate that thats 25% damage by not finishing, vs 10% damage by finishing
vapid scarab
so it's basically 30% of a FoK + envenom vs 100% of a FoK
marble hemlock
yup
lost horizon
You end up with more simply from PB proc chance but definitely doesn't seem worth
Don't you fit 4 FoKs in though or am I misremembering EP length?
marble hemlock
pb is barely worth anything on aoe tho
but yeah, as eleem said, the more EB you run, the more value the additional fok has
vapid scarab
so right around 4ish targets is where you wouldn't env for EP anymore
spice surge
envenom buff is also like a 6-7% buff to fok dmg (with 3x eb, higher with less)
marble hemlock
4-5 id say
vapid scarab
and you would just get bleeds out and spam fok
on reaping do you even put bleeds out or is your base 170 energy enough to last till they die
bleak spoke
rupture refunds 8D
spice surge
depends on their health (so what key level you're running)
marble hemlock
depends on the composition of the reaping
sometimes multidotting on high-hp lostsouls is worth it for sustain
spice surge
#NeverSimpleAnswers
marble hemlock
other times you just spam fok and snipe mobs that are about to die with ruptures to get refunds
vapid scarab
okay, so if there's a high hp soul you do bleeds, if there isn't then you just rupture snipe
spice surge
How long it takes for them to die is the most crucial metric (which is tied to their health, but also depends on your group)
vapid scarab
right i understand that as well
like if the mobs are going to die by the time you spend 170 energy, no point doing any bleeds
unless there's 1 or 2 high hp souls that you can funnel down
spice surge
Yeah, but its also sometimes worth to use your last global on a pull on a rupture so you dont start the next pack with 25 energy
vapid scarab
yeah that makes sense to
assa is so cool
so much decision making
so much to minmax
granite beacon
brazen halo
May I ask how far behind Sin is compared to Outlaw in M+? I played Rogue a lot in Legion and am getting back into the game, but I do have a special relationship with Sin so if it isn't super far behind I might focus on it rather than swap between.
tropic ocean
what makes you come to the conclusion that sin is behind outlaw in m+?
brazen halo
I suppose I don't know for sure, mainly due to looking at spec prevalence and my own very limited experience running M+ in BfA (did maybe 6-7 dungeons) and seeing all Rogues so far playing Outlaw
I would be happy to have been wrong 😛
hollow stone
Its definitely competitive once you have the right traits
Outlaw's just easier to gear for and people assume its better because its played more
brazen halo
I guess I fell into that trap too
hollow stone
A lot of the high sin rogues will beat OL rogues
hollow stone
Yea. Gouge and more kidneys cant be ignored
tropic ocean
which is probably true for the higher players but for the majority they just dont make any use of it
for shrine i really like assa for the silences
think it has higher value than outlaw
hollow stone
I too like the silences. Idk if they outweigh the gouges, more kidneys, and being able to use vanish as a defensive (if needed for whatever reason). But to the op, both are very good and definitely viable at all levels of keys
hollow stone
Im with you. I pref sin too
tropic ocean
the main reason I take outlaw over sin when I tank at ~1,7k rio is that most sins just dont know how to make their class useful
while outlaw is just pretty easy
they hold vendetta for boss, don't use vanish as a resilence thing or to cheese boss mechanics etc etc
untold stream
Hey, I'm starting progress on the Cabal in mythic, and I'm not sure what azerite to take (I don't have a lot of choice available), could you help me choose between those please ?
I'm usually playing MA with 3NP/3DD, but I've seen that SS is pretty good here, and not sure if I should be playing 3 SS or mix it up
spice surge
Depends on how much uptime you'll have on the debuff
rigid mango
3MA 
spice surge
Generally though i'd suggest stacking SS and NP, because having the debuff up for your vendetta doesnt require much externals
But if you get help so you can have it up constantly then just standard azerites are good
untold stream
If I'm playing my standard, I'd have to take at least 1 SS then, or the talent will be useless