assassination

[tropic ocean]

the dmg is irrelevant but the utility comes in handy

[strange python]

arena PVP and raiding PVE are my main content

with some interest in M+

I feel as tho blood elf will be the ideal race

[tropic ocean]

for m+ belf isgood

i guess for pvp too

dunno if u can use engineer jump in pvp

err

goblin jump

[flat wadi]

How many targets can you garrote before sub ends? 3 ?

[tropic ocean]

3

[woven summit]

yeah 3 and the fourth is a regular garrote

[flint star]

Is it worth to keep EP uptime on reaping waves?

[marble hemlock]

nope

[spice surge]

Spending globals on abilities that arent FOK in aoe

[rigid mango]

When garrotes start to fall off

[spice surge]

Reaping dont usually last until your garrotes fall off though 😄

[rigid mango]

not pulling other stuff with reaping?

Atleast in some dungeons, but aye

[spice surge]

Well, if you're chainpulling you're not getting garrotes anyway

But yeah 😉

[rigid mango]

I mean

You can pull a pack whilst reaping spawns

I guess most prominent is FH

[spice surge]

well you're right, but shh

😄

[rigid mango]

Yah but it's not that foten

often*

I realised

so

you're still also correct 😄

[flint star]

Not letting me go into Stealth between pulls

[rigid mango]

That's the one

People who don't kill shit evenly so I can restealth for reap

[tropic ocean]

what a glorious day

improved my jaina log from 32 to 80

and got mount

wouldn't have made it as outlaw arrrr

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

Gotta love being goblin on mekka ❤

[rigid mango]

That's very assassination of you

[strange python]

Indeed it was

[sterile marten]

!trinkets

!sims

[prisma monolith]

BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[crisp hollow]

you think a severe lack of mastery will neuter my sin output until I get more ideal rings? my best case scenario is to play sin/outlaw almost equally but so far i’m almost entirely haste/crit

[rigid mango]

Depends, how low is your mastery

[crisp hollow]

at the moment the only mast i get is from my azerite neck, so like 300

[rigid mango]

yeah, that'll hurt a bit ngl

[crisp hollow]

on the plus side I guess in early 8.2 everything will be an upgrade technically

whether my guild allows me to be such a whore about loot is a different story

[proud wren]

What’s a good overall stat priority to follow for sin

[real bay]

crystal ball says haste for raids

[proud wren]

Rn mine is haste Crit mast vers

Haste and Crit are neck and neck almost and mast is around 780 so far vers is around 360

[rigid mango]

dude I'd still love to see what you're running to get those numbers Grizz

[proud wren]

For outlaw?

I’ll link a sim later when I get home

I mean it’s not all the time like I said just when theirs no mechanics it gets that high just not very very often

[rigid mango]

Yeah I still doubt you can do 28k ST as 391

[proud wren]

And that’s if I get perfect rotation

28k is high end

[rigid mango]

I still doubt that

I can't even sim 28k with my current gear, that is over 20 ilvls higher and well statted

[proud wren]

It’s happened a few times but it doesn’t stay 28k whole fight dips off about 22-24k ish toward 50%

[rigid mango]

So you're sayiong you PEAK 28k?

[proud wren]

I guess, I stay at it for almost 35-45 specs

[rigid mango]

This guy

he said he does 28k ST as 391

[proud wren]

Easy it’s not constant 28k

[rigid mango]

And I found that quite amazing

[proud wren]

I said between 22k and 28k with almost no mechanics

With mechanics it’s around 16-20k ish around that area

[rigid mango]

🤷

[cobalt gyro]

you must have two sockets in every slot

[shy dust]

Isn’t even a 22k sim pretty high for 391 ilvl?

[rigid mango]

It is insanely so

[cobalt gyro]

because i'm +20 ilevels on you and i don't do 25k on every fight

[rigid mango]

^

It sounds like you're talking out of your ass, that's all

[warm canopy]

it depends entirely on fight length..

[rigid mango]

yeah

I'd love to see your sims and gear man, do link

[proud wren]

I’ll link when I get home

Ign is Grizz tho

[warm canopy]

if hes 391 I doubt the keys are high, bosses will melt so ofc dps will be high.

[proud wren]

The highest key I’ve done is a 8 I believe and I was around 15-17k ish on most boss fights

[stuck knoll]

If anything that's worse for outlaw though

[proud wren]

Yea

[stable pine]

Lul 28k st @391

[proud wren]

Yessum

[stable pine]

Whatttttttttttt

[proud wren]

Jesus your guys are acting like I said 28k CONSTANT single target no matter what

28k is like a peak like we talked about above

[rigid mango]

http://prntscr.com/nto0gv

[warm canopy]

I think it's plausible.

[proud wren]

That’s sin right now

I’ve been working on sin past week

[cobalt gyro]

@rigid mango i don't see the problem https://i.imgur.com/BRqlVI4.png

[rigid mango]

And sin'll sim higher ST most of the times, if the trait disparity isn't shuge

[stable pine]

Hahahahaha

[rigid mango]

fuck man outsimming me too

[stable pine]

Lol

[rigid mango]

Shit

[proud wren]

Jesus

[warm canopy]

take it that 18k sim is a 1min fight timer yeah?

[rigid mango]

5 min

like any other sim

[warm canopy]

and the bosses last 5mins in a dungeon?

in +8?

[rigid mango]

Dude I just cba

gl with your 28k damage

[shy dust]

Maybe a peak of 28k for like 7 seconds

[rigid mango]

28k peak with hero

[cobalt gyro]

i mean i was bursting 40k in uldir with exsang so that's a

[rigid mango]

exsand

[crisp steppe]

🤔

[cobalt gyro]

i just threw sand at them ya

[rigid mango]

They can't see

ez stabby

[meager nebula]

chill with the trolling

[warm canopy]

Just checked some old uldir logs, 25k dps after 1min on a ST boss, 387 and single traits

seems legit

[rigid mango]

What?

Dude he said a blanket bullshit statement the other day about his damage

[crisp steppe]

did 25k dps on fetid period 🤔

[warm canopy]

vectic

*vectis..

[rigid mango]

There's not much more to it

[warm canopy]

dno, first log I looked at in some of our old kils

[stuck knoll]

I mean as Outlaw it's definitely possible to peak at 28k with a 5 buff

So idk why this conversation is still happening

He said it was a peak not sustained so we can move on

[proud wren]

I could have said I hit 30k 1 time for 2 seconds and they’d act like I said that’s the lowest I’ve ever pulled

And I did say above that’s IF everything is perfect

Perfect rotation and good rtb

[rigid mango]

you said and I quote, "my outlaw does about 24-27-28k dps single with little mechanics"

[proud wren]

Yes

[rigid mango]

I wont further anything, but that's not the same as saying in short bursts

[proud wren]

Normally around the 24k mark

[rigid mango]

ok dude.

[proud wren]

I’ll run some mythics+tonight and send some proof your way bud

[rigid mango]

http://prntscr.com/nto46b this was a +16 that I did

[cobalt gyro]

lilly's trollin it looks like

[vernal adder]

ok lilly

[rigid mango]

the 2nd rogue there is well geared, and sure maybe unlucky

yeah, 1st dps alt he ever had

but around 20k is what I normally see when i'm doing those type of keys

So i don't know if you always roll 5 buffs or something, but jesus man

It just sounds like astronomical numbers

[solid nova]

Let it go already

[rigid mango]

yes, ok

[cobalt gyro]

18-23k is about right, 30k if you fiver

@ 41x

[hazy iron]

Did someone say 28k? :X https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jp7TuPwrLinek3bc2XSqhT

[rigid mango]

I'm done

[small aurora]

Is 20k good on a Tyr boss fight?

[rigid mango]

not particularly

It's average

Nah, it's bad

[small aurora]

What are you aiming for to be average then? Like 22-23?

[rigid mango]

22 is a good number to aim at

[small aurora]

Cheers, I thought my ST was ass but i guess it's not too bad

[tropic ocean]

Zine gets hard trolled

its not hard to do 24k in a +8

[rigid mango]

Don't

aus pls

[tropic ocean]

Boss is dead before bloodlust ends 😂

[rigid mango]

give it up

Just give it up, it's not worth it.

[proud wren]

Lmfao

[visual quartz]

I mean bursting kinda make overall tank when you have to turn off so ya dont 4-8 stack it

I legit hate bursting weeks, do my 10 and stop

But yeah zine I just read that back...I could say I do 90k dps when I peak 10seconds into the fight 😛

[rigid mango]

Don't

Start this conversation, again.

please.

[zenith gust]

lul zine those daggers, i hate u.... i'm still rocking my 405+400....

[rigid mango]

U looked me up

[crisp steppe]

[zenith gust]

ur making me feel like a stalker lul

[rigid mango]

Dude I do the same, dw

I just got my 420 dagger on wednesday

I even forgot to roll on opu

[zenith gust]

unfortunatly i have to raid with my frost mage... cuz there are non in my raid :/ so no MM gear for me

[rigid mango]

Ouchie

[zenith gust]

yeah sucks

i did HC with my assa and was loving it

[rigid mango]

Yeh, my gear is aight atm, big things are better trinks and rings

maybe more sockets

I still don't sim that high

[stuck knoll]

better rings
Has 425 socket crit vers

[rigid mango]

crit vers not good for ST

[stuck knoll]

Play Outlaw

[zenith gust]

still nice tho

[rigid mango]

I have 2x 425 crit vers rings

1 is socketed one not

I wanna try outlaw again, but that means swapping azerite and I cba

Also wnat to keep my soul intact

[zenith gust]

outlul is great in m+... spec just doesnt feel challenging at all

just press the aoe button

[rigid mango]

Maybe not challenging, but rewarding for sure

It's super fun to play imo

[zenith gust]

yeah, rewarding for sure

[meager nebula]

sin isn't really much harder

put up ruptures and fok spam

[rigid mango]

That too

It's not like sin in m+ is hard

[small aurora]

The utility makes the spec so fun

[meager nebula]

both specs are dumb in aoe

[rigid mango]

I love playing 3 eb

[zenith gust]

at least you play different depending on the number of mobs

[rigid mango]

for that exact reason

Outlaw feels very nice to play

Fast and reactionary playstyle

Also when it pops, it pops.

[zenith gust]

you dont play the same ST, 2 targets 3-4 targets, 5+ targets

[rigid mango]

yeah, that's true

I mean I'd say sin is one of the hardest for that reason

in m+, since you have like 4 different stages you're in

It's like driving 4 gears

You need to know when to change

[woven summit]

I feel like sub is the hardest but that's just me.

[atomic willow]

yea man HARDly any dmg

[civic palm]

eh o _O

[rigid mango]

🤔

[bleak spoke]

Sub is harder on planning cds in a dungeon can kinda just wing it on assa cuz you only need to have vendetta up at specific points

3 minutes on shadowblades is a long time

[brave geyser]

@junior pond stop

[junior pond]

[vague portal]

anyone here willing to take a look at my logs? i would like to know what to improve

[tall basalt]

is there any situation in m+ or raiding that i would need kidney shot for?

[bleak spoke]

It’s your only on demand stun so yeah?

I wouldn’t say you kidney on cd in dungeons but at least once every minute or two

[civic palm]

Would probably save it for when you know there is going to be a lot of things to interrupt.

[tall basalt]

does kidney interrupt spells that can't be kicked?

[civic palm]

Yes.

[sand basin]

If the target can be stunned yes

Won't work on mini bosses obv

[tall basalt]

so i can interrupt overseer korgus's crossfire?

[sand basin]

Nope

Korgus can't be stunned like every boss (excluding via boaa mechanics)

And therefore you can't interupt boss greys

[midnight flower]

😆

[sand basin]

Some stun immune enemies can have their greys interrupted by displacement like death grip but the engineering belt upgrade is the only way rogues can do that

[tall basalt]

okay, i see now

im running tol dagor atm so im actually experimenting with kidney shot uses

[civic palm]

or blind > _>

[sand basin]

Blind won't work on anything stun immune unless they got immunity through dr's. Unless there's some exception I can't remember

[cobalt gyro]

never heard of that being a thing

[sand basin]

Yeah some stun immune enemies can be displaced for seemingly no reason while others can't but otherwise they're just universally immune

I feel like it's just there to make blood dk's and balance druids have more relevant cc

[visual quartz]

pretty sure blind works on everyone but bosses and mini bosses

I can blind guys that kidney shot dont stun

[civic palm]

are there different DR tables for stuns and incaps?

[visual quartz]

isnt blind cateragized as a loss of control instead of stun, like stun and fear both have different DR

[meager nebula]

blind is classified as a disorient

[civic palm]

disorient

[meager nebula]

there are 3? types of cc, stun, incapacitate and disorient

[civic palm]

6 DR tables

typing O _O

knockback, stun, disorient, incap, root, silence

[visual quartz]

yeah disorient

[meager nebula]

oh right.

i forgot the obvious ones

[civic palm]

lol

[meager nebula]

they don't matter since i can't do them.

[cobalt gyro]

ah, same reason people don't bother with mechanics

[civic palm]

:3

[tough lantern]

is sin on top for M+? i'm consistently top on meters for overal in 10+

[tall pelican]

To stay Outlaw or go Assassin for mythic 15 plus and onwards ?

[lost horizon]

It's very competitive

Both specs can shine

[tall pelican]

Echoing blades x3

[lost horizon]

Sin offers a couple things outlaw doesn't

Like garrote silence, crippling poison

Priority dmg w/TTK build

Outlaw lets you vanish mechanics freely without losing dmg, gouge is extremely strong, extended melee range can be very nice, and is chain-pull friendly

There's a few more differences but both have their pros and cons, so there's value in both for different situations

[noble tinsel]

Ran TD 13 times this weekend (M+6 - M+13) and AD seven times, not a single dagger drop. This game is fucking broken if the RNG is that bad. QQ, I know, but getting decent weapons this tier has been a nightmare

[lost horizon]

Just try to run with another rogue I guess, up your chances

[bleak spoke]

Make sure loot spec is set right

I’ve had some unlucky surprises

[noble tinsel]

Triple checked the loot spec. Just v unlucky. I’ll see what weekly chest has in it then keep trying if neede

[plush remnant]

@sand basin what all does the belt enchant silence that would be worth getting it? If it works on the AoE lightning mob in KR it’d be pretty good there

[sand basin]

There's a knockback belt, a shield belt and a fear belt in bfa. The knockback one would cancel the lightning mob but the cd is something insane like 6-10 mins and it shares cd with pots
Idk how the old ones work

I take it as an emergency knockback if we don't have any

[dark crag]

I think all belt enchants share a cd with pot

[lament dove]

the shield doesn't

[bronze kelp]

@sand basin it triggers the pot cd, but better waste a pot, than have all dds to stop dmg for the whole lightning duration

u dont get 10 mins cd on pot afaik

[sand basin]

Shield and fear belt don't have "Shares cd with potions" on them

could be a wrong tooltip, but fear belt doesn't say it fears

[spice surge]

Idk about the fear

But shield does 100% not share cd with pots

[bronze kelp]

Ill test it today, but i dont remember having a cd at all at pots after using knockback belt

[sand basin]

it does have a 10m cd

just tried it

[bronze kelp]

the belt has, but not pot, right ?

[sand basin]

I think it does but it shares cd with utility pots and not combat pots

my battle pots arn't on cd

but like, swift pots or invis pots might be on cd if I had any

[bronze kelp]

yeah okay, but thats meaningless in most situations

[vague portal]

can someone help me with my logs? i need guidance

PM me if u can help . ty

[vast forum]

probably best to just post them here and have people scavenge them like ravens

[vague portal]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VYmP1pyCqGZ7zH3f

feed my children

lol

never raided on rogue, i mainly tank but 2nd raid needed dps

[scarlet sequoia]

your elaborate planning uptime is low

pool energy before toxic blade

make sure you dont refresh rupture during toxic blade

try to have it up before you toxic blade

use finishers when elaborate planning is at as close to 0.1 as possible i guess

[winter moss]

first time raiding w rogue?

[vague portal]

im having a lot of trouble understanding the rotation since theres like 3 of them

[solid nova]

Guide has correct openers

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[vague portal]

thats what has me confused so many openers

[vast forum]

your rotation depends on your traits

[solid nova]

You didnt vendetta until 42 seconds in on Grong too

And vanish window was same as your opener, which isnt correct

Can macro spyglass into vendetta too, instead of using them singularly

You've got a view triple mutilates too

[winter moss]

so lets sum it up:

1. get the correct opener for your set of traits/talents
2. read the guide again very carefully
3. do some macros
4. bleed uptime isnt too bad, if really first time rog
5. fix your tb windows

[vague portal]

im main a monk tank

[winter moss]

6. finisher w/ 4 or 5 cps, ty not to overcap

[solid nova]

99% of what i can see is covered by the guide

[vague portal]

i was gonna tank for this group on warrior but not anymore since they got a tank with company so i gave the spot to fit both ppl in so im rogue now but im super confused since i dont know how to improve because i dont know until now what i was doing wrong

anything else u guys think , azerite ?

[winter moss]

nothing you can do wrong there

azerite in bod are decent

helm from first boss, shoulder from second, mekka chest

[cobalt pelican]

your gear is fine besides tidal surge but like

gear optimizations should always be after learning how to press your buttons

[solid nova]

^

[vague portal]

should i change tidal?

[winter moss]

is tidal on the chest?

according to wowhead there should be a NP trait on it too

[vague portal]

i dont see tidal on my chest

and am i doing it correct using azerite weights from bloodmallet?

[solid nova]

Top gear sim it

[winter moss]

herodamage.com or bloodmallet.com only are a guideline to give you an idea what traits may be good, they will not tell you if it's perfect for your char

[solid nova]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear

[winter moss]

well the traits on the azerite shoulders are pretty wack

but they are subject to change anyway in the near future if you want to main rogue

[tropic ocean]

shouldn't worry about traits

[winter moss]

as richard said before 99% is topic of the guide

[tropic ocean]

when rotation cd cp energy usage needs to be fixed

i n grong kill overbuffed garrote multiple times

<90% buff uptime

lots of cp wasted

50% dps downtime

3 missed tb casts

[vague portal]

so looking at the guide this should be my rotation: One or more Shrouded Suffocation powers for Toxic Blade

Garrote
Rupture
Garrote
Vendetta
Toxic Blade
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Vanish when Garrote runs out
Garrote twice

[tropic ocean]

exactly

[solid nova]

yup

[winter moss]

yes

[tropic ocean]

but your opener was garrote trinket garrote garrote rupture mutilate mutilate envenom

where it should've been garrote rupture garrote vendetta trinket tb

like u opened without using tb or vendetta

[winter moss]

^

[tropic ocean]

when you used tb you had no energy and put 2 mutilate 1 envenom inside tb window

[winter moss]

macro your trinket to vendetta aswell

[tropic ocean]

but you want to use at least 2 envenom inside tb, best is 3 if u pool properly

[winter moss]

due to 2min cd you have one button less to care about

[tropic ocean]

tl:dr try to keep ur dots up as much as you can use vendetta mainly on cd with trinket and vanish fit 2 envenom into tb buff

and you're good to go

[vague portal]

should i put trinket first or vendetta?

[tropic ocean]

oh and never overbuff subterfuge garrote, let it tick out

[vague portal]

/use trinket
/ cast vendetta

or oother way around

[tropic ocean]

/use 13

if it 1st trinket slot

/use 14 if its 2nd

[vague portal]

does it matter if is top or bottom

[tropic ocean]

yes

top is 13

bottom is 14

[vague portal]

sorry i meant in the macro

[tropic ocean]

for the macro /use 13
/cast Vendetta is fine

[vague portal]

ok

[winter moss]

#showtooltip Vendetta /use 13 /use 14 /cast Vendetta

if you are not using mekka trinket you just can copy pasta

[tropic ocean]

https://prnt.sc/ntxjeg

this is your opener, you need to change it to this

https://prnt.sc/ntxkju

(except that you probably want to use garrote rupture garrote, i personally don't bcuz I want to push out more envenom during bl w/o having to refresh rup)

[winter moss]

@tropic ocean fancy, what site?

[tropic ocean]

wowanalyzer

[winter moss]

they really stepped up their game

[tropic ocean]

i like their timeline feature way better than the one in wcl

[solid nova]

It's always had that feature?

[tropic ocean]

and to fast check logs its really good little clicking needed to see major flaws

[winter moss]

well dickie im old school, i checked cast by cast on wcl and havent payed wowanalyzer a visit in the last 6 months

[solid nova]

Afaik Wowanalyzer still isnt optimised for rogue

But for quick glance stuff its fine

[winter moss]

and there is the reason why

[tropic ocean]

the usual stuff you'll see is buff uptime, overcapping and a fast glance at the rotation

[vague portal]

ty guys for the help, off to change some stuff

[tropic ocean]

for indepth not so good, but meh most ppl that need indepth analysis dont need to ask here anyway

[winter moss]

tru

[fallow estuary]

Do i wanna macro lurkers into vendetta?

[winter moss]

can do

but take care with lurkers

dont kill yourself (seriously)

[solid nova]

Just include your macro to turn it off

[lament dove]

include into the same macro: /cancelaura insidious gift

[solid nova]

/cancelaura Insidious Gift
/use Lurker's Insidious Gift```

[fallow estuary]

is that dangerous? :O

Damn

[solid nova]

Just dont spam it

[fallow estuary]

Spam? I'll use it on CD i thought

Or do you mean the macro?

[solid nova]

The macro

[fallow estuary]

Ahh

ye ofc

[winter moss]

and to the dangerous shit

213k dmg in the last 10 seconds

average raider health 220k

if you expect a large hit you better turn it off

[stable oxide]

Hmmm, you open with double garrote?

I always do Garrote, rupture, Garrote

[pearl meteor]

G r g is better

[tropic ocean]

I opened with g g r due to bloodlust

so I don't have to refresh rupture early

[pearl meteor]

G r g still optimal in lust

[fallow estuary]

do i use fok Singletarget with 3x EB?

[winter moss]

why would you use 3 fok st

or are you speaking of m+

[fallow estuary]

ye

[winter moss]

no

[tropic ocean]

unless you are using hidden blades

no

[winter moss]

remember that meme build during antorus? fok as ST builder

[fallow estuary]

Yea

was nice

but its gotta be close i guess

my fok does 4.4k+ for 35 energy

mut is at 5.7k for 50

and thats without EB procs

[pearl meteor]

Dont do it

[fallow estuary]

dw i won't

just wonder how high the difference is

[pearl meteor]

Its more of a cp thing

[winter moss]

lets math it out gang

[pearl meteor]

Lets not

[winter moss]

why not

[pearl meteor]

[winter moss]

2 mut + env are 12k + 45k in 3 cds

[pearl meteor]

Was kidding go for it

[winter moss]

4 fok + env are 17,6k + 45k in 5 cds

*gcds

2mut+env=19kdps
4fok+env=12,52kdps

[atomic willow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uopTA277jz5vvo2zDP64SY

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/k9ezcMJ7udhT75x8J66Y24

are these sims decent for my ilvl?

[rigid mango]

not the ST one

You're a good 1-1.5k damage behind

[winter moss]

switch to ma and get 2kdps for free

[rigid mango]

Mostly thanks to your daggers and trinkets

[atomic willow]

whatcha think is the problem?

[rigid mango]

Oh you're not running MA.

Swap to MA

[pearl meteor]

On use trinket

MA

[rigid mango]

Dude just swap to MA

You'll increase a shit ton

and then you'll be on the verge, with only your trinkets more or less holding you back

[atomic willow]

thnx

[winter moss]

laughs in mythic raider with 405 dice

[blissful crown]

Should we use MA over Subterfuge?

[rigid mango]

Only if you don't have any SS traits

yes.

[winter moss]

with 3 DD yes

[blissful crown]

For raids only or m+?

[rigid mango]

Nah, not bec of 3 DD

[winter moss]

PURE single target

[rigid mango]

you can run 3 DD and go SS

with sub

MA is only good on pure ST

[winter moss]

yea

[rigid mango]

not m+ at all

It outperforms on last 3 bosses

[winter moss]

but if there is any chance to cleave subt is pulling ahead with SS

[rigid mango]

And in general is less pad build

[winter moss]

or even without ss

[rigid mango]

normally SS + Sub is better to parse

on first 6

but in a lot of cases it's pad damage more than relevant damage

[blissful crown]

Atm i have 3 dd 2 nothing and 1 other thats not SS.

[rigid mango]

Yeah, MA

for raid.

[blissful crown]

And thats my raiding gear

Alright

Thanks

[rigid mango]

Yes, defo

no ss = ma

any ss = sub

[winter moss]

^

[vague portal]

Any WA u guys might recommend?

[winter moss]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[winter moss]

personally i tend to afenars group, but i reworked alot of it for myself

[rigid mango]

Any of the above

I know Mizerok is often in the server too

So if you take his, he's most likely going to be able to help

[winter moss]

mize is around everyday so yes

[rigid mango]

I don't know about the other ones tbh

I just know he's around everyday

[winter moss]

a group that's also not bad: https://wago.io/VkcUyO8t-

[blissful crown]

What about m+ there i run 3 eb 3 ss and hidden blades, works good with reaping

[atomic willow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v35PvevPoS5yu3mwS1qTab

[vague portal]

Cool ty

[rigid mango]

pad build

I'm not a fan of that set up myself

[winter moss]

dont take hidden blades in m+

[rigid mango]

but if it works for you, do it

[winter moss]

just trying to provide options

[atomic willow]

ok that MA helped witht he sim......i run MA in raid just didn't notice mt M+ talents were still active https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v35PvevPoS5yu3mwS1qTab

[rigid mango]

HB can do more damage at the end somtimes, but I'd recommend PB this week

Yah, that's fine

now all you need to do is get better dagger and an on use trinket

that's good

plumage/GCB/lurkers

The latter will increase your sim by most

If you run that build @blissful crown you might aswell swap to outlaw, imo

[atomic willow]

the plumage is simming bettwer then my GCB prolly cuz the socket......the lurkers has been avoiding me every week even with a bonus roll

[rigid mango]

Yeah, sockets are worth a lot

You'll be simming low until you get many

[atomic willow]

welp thnx eryone

[onyx rock]

I have 8 :)))

[rigid mango]

Only got 6

and no lurkers, can't sim well

also no cepha

[onyx rock]

Oh well... 7 not 8 my bad

[winter moss]

got 2

3 with a 410 gcb

[blissful crown]

How come @rigid mango? I just see my dps alot higher when HB cause i can control it

PB is so rng

[rigid mango]

You're pouring everything into aoe

whilst fucking up your ST

you might aswell go outlaw, do similar aoe and then have 5 ST traits

sin isn't made for going full pad imo, 3 EB I can get behind

[winter moss]

padding the meters doesnt help your group at all if you have 6 min boss fights bc everyone ist at 18k st dmg

[rigid mango]

but adding 3 SS + HB is just obnoxious overkill, imo

Aye, more or less that

It can be a valid strat if you're running with 2 classes that are high ST blasters

but even then I'd value going TTK's and PB much higher

For the alround versatility of assa in m+ atm.

[winter moss]

if you intended to run HB for aoe dmg you should consider playing outlaw instead

[rigid mango]

If you run 3 eb 3 ss you should consider going outlaw.

HB is just the cherry on top

[winter moss]

well 3eb + 3 ss is easy to come by

[rigid mango]

But also a worse version of outlaw

[tropic ocean]

@vague portal i used afenar for a long time then switched to mizerok, really enjoy the minimalistic style

[winter moss]

basically yes

[blissful crown]

Might do so or switch to PB again 😂

[rigid mango]

Yeah, and your ss' too, atleast try it

[blissful crown]

I can see what u mean with the ST dmg

[rigid mango]

🤷

[vague portal]

@tropic ocean cool, ty ill check them both and see

[blissful crown]

So PB and no SS and then MA for higher dps on st bosses in m+ cause yeah i usually run with a ele sham and DH/mage

[rigid mango]

nono

Atleast 1 SS

Always, but not 3

Try replacing 2 with TTK's

And running a bit more prio focused

[real bay]

MA in m+

[blissful crown]

Alright 😃

[rigid mango]

What erttu said

[blissful crown]

Aye

[proud wren]

How many NP?

[rigid mango]

How many NP?

wdym

[winter moss]

@blissful crown

[proud wren]

nothing personal

[rigid mango]

yes

what about them

[winter moss]

seliathans setup for m+

[proud wren]

Or any

[rigid mango]

for what

?

Yah, I'd recommend that set up arizon

also what I'm running

He normally swaps ttk for eb next week

just bec he hates outlaws

and 3 eb is fun 😄

[blissful crown]

Yeah

[rigid mango]

still confused @proud wren wdym how many NP

[tropic ocean]

0np

[rigid mango]

I'm not sure if you're asking for m

[proud wren]

Gotcha

[rigid mango]

m+*

which in that case, 0 NP

[real bay]

0 most likely

[blissful crown]

Np is only for raiding i guess then

[rigid mango]

but in raid, atleast 1

[proud wren]

Okay gotcha

[rigid mango]

Yes, exactly

[proud wren]

I gotta reforge

Lmfao

So for m+ go for 3ttk?

[tropic ocean]

any combination

[rigid mango]

During tyr weeks, yes it's good

[tropic ocean]

eb/ttk/ss

[rigid mango]

same for fort weeks

[tropic ocean]

can do 3 eb 3 ss too

[rigid mango]

no

[tropic ocean]

its up to your personal preference

[rigid mango]

if u want 3 eb ss just go outlaw

[winter moss]

ill post i agane

[tropic ocean]

if you want to go outlaw, go outlaw

[winter moss]

for tyr weeks

[tropic ocean]

just use the traits you feel comfortable with

theres no "BEST TRAIT SETUP"

[winter moss]

for fort weeks: you can go a second SS or 3 EB

oor you play outlaw

[rigid mango]

There's no best, but I'd still say 3 EB SS is just over the top aoe

and Outlaw will just outperfrom

[winter moss]

3DS+1Wits+1Blitz+1Whatever

[rigid mango]

5 ST traits and still outperfroming on aoe

[winter moss]

complex class btw

[rigid mango]

Dude I'm so close to going outlaw again for the memes

Already found out that I have literal bis azerite (I think)

[blissful crown]

Have to check my azerite gear when home from work

[winter moss]

not that hard

[blissful crown]

And then farm 1 mh

[rigid mango]

True

[winter moss]

i just play outlaw for keys

[rigid mango]

I still play assa

but I could go outlaw

like I did before

[winter moss]

trust me takes away all the fun

[rigid mango]

But reforging a bunch is so expensive

I know, but it's also braindead and works so well

[winter moss]

just frm 15 azerite pieces

[rigid mango]

doesn't matter since ally is daed for m+ anyways

[winter moss]

who are you telling that

[rigid mango]

[winter moss]

got ditched from group bc low online times

cause works

ded 2,5k

[rigid mango]

I took a 1.5 month break for school n shit

so just gotten back into pushing now, last ditch effort to get my score up b4 s3

[winter moss]

well

gotta go fast

[rigid mango]

[winter moss]

if s3 isnt rolling around the next few weeks

[pearl meteor]

@winter moss whos trait setup is that for the ss u posted

[rigid mango]

I think it'll be out late june

Seliathan

[winter moss]

seliathan

[pearl meteor]

Ah

[rigid mango]

Aka incarnated

on twitch

r1 assa rogue for m+

atm

[winter moss]

and r1 rogue of hearts

[rigid mango]

can also be seen on the right side under CF

And that

[tropic ocean]

r1 twitch preview picture

[rigid mango]

^

[winter moss]

and yes it's actually his cat, nova, on the pfp

[pallid solar]

I asked the other night about addons to assist with rotation, but couldn't find the reply. I currently use Hekili, but curious if they're are better rotation addons out there. Any suggestions?

[tropic ocean]

herorotation, rotationhelper, tellmewhen

[rigid mango]

Herorotation

Afaik it's the one that's recommended by most around ehre

[pallid solar]

Ok thanks a lot!!

[spring iron]

Why PB over crim?

my numbers after going hard into crit are kinda sucking....

[rigid mango]

Crim is just worse atm

EB makes fok do more damage

than Crim per GCD

[spring iron]

fair enough

[rigid mango]

And PB is just pretty consistant damage

[spring iron]

overall I'm only doing 13k in SoB

(dead atm)

so I'm typing to you guys

[strange python]

Sin or Sub for pvp?

[spring iron]

so.... to open I'm doing Garx4 Env Tab Target, FoK spam spread env....

[rigid mango]

#pvp @strange python

not 4 @spring iron

only 3

into rup rup

[spring iron]

so.. the stealth Rup then a reg rup?

[rigid mango]

what?

[strange python]

recommended traits for KR this week?

[rigid mango]

3x ss garrotes

into 2 ruptures

[spring iron]

right

[rigid mango]

g g g rup fok fok rup

fok fok fok fok

[spring iron]

you can cast Rup from stealth

[rigid mango]

but you dont want to

that's for garrotes

[real bay]

fok fok fok now look 40k dps all dead

[rigid mango]

[spring iron]

going to a dummy to try...

[crisp steppe]

On your current set of talents does rupture from stealth make sense at all

[spring iron]

I have subterfuge

so yes?

wait...

it's still a spender....

how TF do you get 2 spenders in a row?

unless I'm missing something

[rigid mango]

gimme

10 mins

to ifnish key

and ill help

[spring iron]

k

[crisp steppe]

Read subterfuge again

You misunderstood

[spring iron]

while I wait for Zine, I'll continue trying to improve

I heard zine say 3x Gar then Double Rup

am I building with FoK between the 2?

[crisp steppe]

Yes

[rigid mango]

Yes

[spring iron]

ok

why only 3 Gar?

oh...

[rigid mango]

outisde of sub

not worth

[spring iron]

mhmm

[crisp steppe]

In aoe you use bleeds for energy regen. Not necessarily for the damage they do. Especially in large scale aoe

[strange python]

Where do you guys get macros from

For assassination

[spring iron]

macros?

[crisp steppe]

What macros

[strange python]

Like arena macros

[spring iron]

I'm doing 40k on dummies.... WTF!!!!! why wasn't I doing this in dungeon?

[rigid mango]

pvp

pls

channel for it

[solid nova]

What level is the dummy you're hitting

[crisp steppe]

Just figure out what macros you want @strange python

[strange python]

Just wanted to be specific and ask the assassination guys @rigid mango my bad

[crisp steppe]

Google wow pvp macros guide

[solid nova]

Wowhead has macro's listed for pvp

[crisp steppe]

You'll find examples of the specific things you could do in pvp

[spring iron]

120 training dummy in DAZ

[rigid mango]

ye that's fine @strange python just that nearly all here are pve'r

ok I'm done

@spring iron yous tart off with 3 empowerd garrotes

into a rupture

then you build into 2nd rupture

[spring iron]

yea

[rigid mango]

at that point your energy reg is enough to sustain spam

[spring iron]

are we spending on anyting or just keep spamming?

[rigid mango]

idk what az you're runnig either

Depends on the situation and your azerite

[spring iron]

2EB 1SoB 1SS

it's the best i have atm

[rigid mango]

Only 4?

[spring iron]

no

I have current az pieces

EB, Cata, Ele, Bulw, on head

SOB, Secrets, ELE, Bulw, on chest

shoulders I mean

SS, EB, GR, and Vamp seed on chest

[rigid mango]

Aight so generally with better azerite

think of playing sin in m+ like driving a car, with 4 gears

first gear: 1 Target. you do standard 1 target rotaion (with exceptions if you're running HB)

second gear: 2 Target. say 2nd boss fh, your rotation changes a bit, you keep both dotted and you build differently

you muti first, 2 cp? muti again, 3 cp? fok, 4-5 cp? finish

This is if you're running 2+ eb

Third gear: 3-4 target, here you spread 5 bleeds and build and spend like regular, fok fok into env

Forth gear: 5+ Targets, here you spread 5 bleeds and fok like a madman, ignoring all spending until you need to reapply your bleeds with ruptures

[spring iron]

hmm

[rigid mango]

Standard opener is g g g -> rup -> fok fok -> 4/5cp rup

That's generally how you play assa in m+

with exceptions when one target needs to die way faster, etc

You'll learn to apply it properly

[spring iron]

ok

[rigid mango]

With better az, you might come about seeing TTK's in your gear

that means envenoming becomes that much better

[spring iron]

just luck tho

[rigid mango]

and you'll focus more on envenoming higher prio targets

wdym luck, az pieces?

[spring iron]

yea

[rigid mango]

yeah, I mean raiding really helps

since there are 3 diff pieces tehre that are good for m+

in 3 diff slots

Being opu helm, rasta shoulders and conc chest

[spring iron]

mhmm

worth doing heroic or only Mythic?

[rigid mango]

Hc is obv worth

if your gear is worse

which I assume it is

[spring iron]

I'm 410

[rigid mango]

ah

Then you must've just been giga unlucky w pieces huh

[spring iron]

yeeeeeep

[rigid mango]

Do you not raid at all?

[spring iron]

we got kicked hard by the attendence boss

and I don't play at ideal times....

[rigid mango]

Conc?

[spring iron]

no, people weren't showing up

[rigid mango]

honestly, assa is way harder to gear for than outlaw

[spring iron]

lol

[rigid mango]

And without raiding, it's that much harder

Outlaw uses the same set for raid as they do for m+

And they never swap more than 1 trait, pretty much

[spring iron]

damn

[rigid mango]

Having lack luster azerite is quite detrimental to assa

[spring iron]

I'm time invested tho

played Sin through most of legion

always wanted to lear

now through a patch and a half of BFA

[shy axle]

what azerit combination are you using for the first 3 bosses in BoD? A few days ago i read here standart + 1 SS instead of DD on Gorak (test 2x DD, 1 Np, 1 BB)

but i`d say its personal pref (?)

[rigid mango]

Check warcraftlogs

most are really just there to pad

heavy SS is really good on first two

DD NP and MA build is better on grong probs

[rocky ruin]

how many stacks we should stack with lurker?

[rigid mango]

As many as the healer can take

If it's sketchy, cancel after vend

[rocky ruin]

Lurker only in the MA window and after cancel or through the whole vendetta window?

[rigid mango]

"cancel after vend"

[rocky ruin]

someone got the macro for cancel?

[smoky sundial]

Noob question for y’all that I can’t find anywhere cause too basic but how long does bleeds last and before I will have to reapply bleeds? The approx length of the rupture cd?

[rigid mango]

What?

Are you asking about pandemic?

This is shit you literally see on the ability.

What you seem to be asking

[onyx rock]

Pandemic is 7.2 for Rupture and 5.4 for Garotte.

Wait what.. you mean the generell duration ? 🤔 Like Zine said you will find this in the Tooltip

[smoky sundial]

Yes, the duration for the bleeds (gerrote and rupture). I’m new so would there be a way to see a “timer” before I reapply bleeds.

Or if I apply bleeds to two targets, is there a way to look at the duration of the bleeding before applying to each target

[spice surge]

I dont understand what you're asking, you can look at the tooltips ingame and it will tell you how long the bleeds will last

[smoky sundial]

Ok thanks

[onyx rock]

@smoky sundial download this: https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/weakauras-2

[spice surge]

Or are you refering to after you've applied them?

[onyx rock]

and then take one of these:

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[smoky sundial]

I think so. Thanks!

I think so. Thanks!

Yes after I applied them. Looking for a timer, countdown addon for them. I think that’s the one I’m looking for. Thanks for your help

[strange python]

how do i sim for Shrouded suff build,

[rigid mango]

You put it on and sim it?

[strange python]

it dosnt sim good for me on patchwork is all

[rigid mango]

Wow, a cleave build doesn't sim well on patchwerk?

[crisp steppe]

you can do dungeon slice lightz

it drops combat to simulate a dungeon scenario

and it will restealth

[strange python]

meant more like the first 4 bosses in BoD, theyre using SS build

[crisp steppe]

the average mob count is probably gonna be lower than the average m+ dungeon tho so it'll overrate it a bit

[rigid mango]

Yeah

You can add boss numbers etc

Or just know that it's better

and not sim it

[crisp steppe]

@strange python https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/21#boss=2266&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination&combatantinfo=Azerite&dataset=95

[strange python]

i see. i saw that haste is the worst on aoe for assa, is that the case with a SS build?

i will sim it tho ofc

i wont be taking assa to dungeons, outlaw to strong. but wanna raid with assa maybe

[crisp steppe]

once you have 5 bleeds up you have basicly infinite energy so haste does nothing for energy regen at that point. I think its just autoattacks then

[strange python]

ah ofc

[tropic ocean]

In raid u still want

[crisp steppe]

so just figure out what the fight looks like

[tropic ocean]

Haste

[crisp steppe]

haste might still be valuable, like on jadefire it certainly would be

[tropic ocean]

Just usw ur normal stat weights for st

[strange python]

alright ty

[tropic ocean]

and switch ss in for rasta jade champions grobg

Enough to log 95+

Highest influence is killtime and how you handle your mechanics/uptime

Eg stormwall i used subter forgot to switch in ss and log 97 just by cleaving adds

Most important thing to up your logs is yourself not the traits

[strange python]

yea i bet

am i meant to use kidney shot on cd with prey on the weak?

for the 10percent increased damage

[rigid mango]

just use IB instead

[spice surge]

Bosses cannot be stunned, and for dungeon adds internal bleeding does more damage

[strange python]

oh right i missed the disabled part

[valid cipher]

Quick question about mythic Jaina. I saw multiples top logs with 3xNP. My sims are saying that 1TC 2NP is better than 3NP. On our trys i never proced TC before wipe. Is there some reason to not take TC and go 3NP instead? More burst on Vendetta windows?

[rigid mango]

p3 burst with NP

[valid cipher]

Ok ty

Do you Vendetta the wall, now we're killing elem?

[rigid mango]

I was just going to say

I actually don't know how much better 3 np is now

That the strat isn't just burst

[valid cipher]

Gonna try tonight and see how it's working

[spice surge]

Vendetta:ing wall is definitely the play if you're killing the ele

Which also means you need enough ranged so that you can get a full vendetta of on the wall so that it doesnt die like 12s after you vendetta

You have like 22-24s before the freezing stuff reaches the wall

[tropic ocean]

@valid cipher it heavily depends on your raid dps as well

if you have enough dps to push p1 fast go for it

if have as low dps that you don't need to dps stop, go for it as well

if you're in between don't go for it

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Z28zrFfdXQmLgP3D#fight=last&type=auras&target=7&ability=289467

heres my vendetta usage from last kill, our dps is pretty bad for vendetta usage since we have 2 low dps too push, but too much to not dps stop

with ele tactic and correct dps I guess 4 vendettas are the play

[pearl meteor]

U mean stop b4 wall or

[tropic ocean]

no

[pearl meteor]

When r u stopping dps

[tropic ocean]

in p1 you either have enough dps too push here before blizzard

or u need to stop

[pearl meteor]

O we just go in during blizzard half the time

[tropic ocean]

or you have as low dps that it doesnt matter anyway and u'll get 2nd vendetta off nevertheless

or at least we do stop maybe its not needed

[pearl meteor]

U can clear mid blizzard and u go into phase with like 2 stacks

[spice surge]

Imo you never need to stop dps with current gear, having 1 or 2 extra stacks during intermission isnt a big deal

[tropic ocean]

we tried few times to just keep dpsing but it turned out pretty sabotag

[pearl meteor]

Kinda w.e

[spice surge]

You can just bring out the barrel slightly earlier

Imo you never need to stop dps with current gear, having 1 or 2 extra stacks during intermission isnt a big deal

[tropic ocean]

we tried few times to just keep dpsing but it turned out pretty sabotag

[pearl meteor]

Ah

[tropic ocean]

well if everyone can play properly yeah

sadly in my raid they can't

[pearl meteor]

Did u hold ur vendetta

Till after intermission

Ur 2nd one

[tropic ocean]

yeah

cuz else I'd lose half of it or smth

pretty sad cuz i see in top logs ppl using 4 vendettas

:[

[pearl meteor]

Shldnt lose half of it if u use it on cd

Just cloak during the ring

[tropic ocean]

i cloak 1st ring

cant cloak 2nd due to needing it to premove and kick image in intermission

and after 2nd ring we dps stop so

i could pop 2nd vendetta but that'd mean ignoring raidcall

[pearl meteor]

Ah

That seems weird 2 me but i guess

[tropic ocean]

and/or pushing boss to intermission while vendetta isnt over

cuz our dps is in a very weird spot

we sometimes managed to push earlier

[pearl meteor]

Why stop dps at 2nd ring tho

[tropic ocean]

but our boss dps is very inconsistent (high ballistas)

we don't stop at 2nd ring

at 2nd ring our boss mostly has somewhat 66-68%

we then stop at to let blizzadr go

blizzard*

[pearl meteor]

Oh u mean the blizzard like 30s after it

[tropic ocean]

yeah

[pearl meteor]

I see

[tropic ocean]

think we did manage 1 or 2 times before it but cant consistently push to it because ppl prefer padding

(which is dumb because without dmg stop you'd had better log than padding ballista)

[pearl meteor]

Which imagine r u kicking in intermission

[tropic ocean]

2nd, sometimes 3rd when pala fails

[pearl meteor]

Cloak just for safety i take it

[tropic ocean]

i dont need cloak in intermission but we have pala dk and me premoving soaking and kicking because

else its iceblock fiesta

[pearl meteor]

Unlucky

[tropic ocean]

if ppl could move I could use cloak for smth else 😄

[pearl meteor]

Yea

[tropic ocean]

or just need that relic from legion that reduces cloak cd

[pearl meteor]

I wld still 2min after 2nd ring even if u dont cloak it 🤷

Shld finish b4 stop call or ull push b4 it

[tropic ocean]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Z28zrFfdXQmLgP3D#fight=last&type=auras

sadly not

heres the log you can see it 😄

[pearl meteor]

Eh im on my phone 2 hard

Ill jus take ur word for it unforch

[tropic ocean]

im already trying to convince my rl to stop ppl from pad and just go full ham on boss

i guess if everyone just focus on st boss we can push before without dps stop

[pearl meteor]

Wld b ideal

[tropic ocean]

which should result in a overall better log than having to dps stop with pad

will see nxt id

[valid cipher]

we often need to stop dps in p1 cause of blizz. I use 2 vendetta in p1, one in p2 and wall. We didn't pass the wall atm but i think by killing elem it will be back for p3

[pearl meteor]

Ye it shld b

Depends on your dps

[tropic ocean]

could be up if you use it on wall

[spice surge]

Its definitely up for jaina if you use on wall and then kill ele

[valid cipher]

so to sum up, on my case, better to take 3NP or 1TC 2NP? i precise i have 2DD 1TTK

[rigid mango]

If you go 3NP and vend the wall

You might have smoother run

I'd go 3NP for simplicity's sake

[pearl meteor]

Also depends if your ever dropping tc throughout fight

And for how long

[rigid mango]

It normally has about 95% up time ish

[pearl meteor]

Mhm

[valid cipher]

yeah i didn't proced it

[rigid mango]

I'd just go 3 NP

[valid cipher]

but it seems safer to go 3NP as well

[rigid mango]

the extra damage on wall could be helpful

• the diff should be menial either way

[pearl meteor]

I play triple np

As well

[rigid mango]

I play 2, and get a BBI instead

[pearl meteor]

Wish i had shoulders 🙃

Rolled 3 this week

[rigid mango]

Why roll

I'm just saving

[pearl meteor]

Meh

Not super worried about it

Will get it from feed if need b

[valid cipher]

just see the 3NP build is 37 dps loss for me

[rigid mango]

yeh

37dps

[valid cipher]

gonna go for it ^^

[rigid mango]

wont be anything in game