makes you think you need more
#assassination
cobalt gyro
strange python
I do usually do top damage though. 35-40 k overall every dungeon
cobalt gyro
bosses are, even on tyrannical, a small amount of the time spent in a dungeon
strange python
Feels so bad, but maybe I’ll try it out
nocturne gate
seli runs only krit/mastery in m+
cobalt gyro
if you don't have a lot of TTK traits, you could try exsang
rigid mango
without 3 ss that's surely not worth?
cobalt gyro
does give you a bunch more energy to play with
rigid mango
hm fair, but it'll surely end up less valuable than tb?
cobalt gyro
depends, i mean i run it on KR for 3rd boss burst
3 ss would be ideal but even with 1 it's fine unless you have heavy ttk, in which case you'll want TB
rigid mango
but that's surely with more than 1 ss no?
cobalt gyro
haven't tried with less than 2
strange python
What do you guys usually average?
cobalt gyro
depends a lot on pulls
if you're gigapulling constantly you're gonna get high overalls
rigid mango
if your tank knows his limts
your damage will be way higher than a better players damage
strange python
Sucks that there’s no real thought leader with assassination
rigid mango
with a worse tank
cobalt gyro
I did a 22 FH where both rogues were 45k+ average
and another 22 FH where everyone was about 35k
difference was the higher DPS run was literally back to back reapings and chainpulls
strange python
Yea
bleak spoke
What do you mean, 1ttk is great
The extend on envenom smoothed our your st so much when you play with low haste and high crit
Smooths*
@cobalt gyro agree, pulls literally change dps so damn much
Also when everyone has giga dps everyone’s dps is lower than their potential imo
fringe parcel
when your 2nd vendetta/vanish is coming up and youre playing SS, do you wait for vanish to come off cd?
rigid mango
They're not 1 big cd like they are when running MA
you use them seperatly when they're off cd
dry thicket
is that true tho
civic palm
Depends on whether you are in M+ or not.
If you are SUB | SS in Raid you probably wanna make better use of spreading Garrotes than MAKING SURE your MT is under Vendetta WITH empowered Garrote.
fringe parcel
okay, so does my rotation change on the 2nd vanish? 1st vanish im garrote > rupture > garrote > vend > TB
civic palm
or Vendetta before for the NRG if it's up/etc.
thin ingot
should i run poison bomb or CT in M+?
rigid mango
PB
rigid mango
No clue
civic palm
Banned.
rigid mango
thin ingot
crimson condor
Should I pop lurkers before or after garrotes on multi target opener? Does it matter?
still forge
Whats best for raid atm? stacked DD and NP, or Stacked SS and NP?
lost horizon
DD is your best bet for ST
@crimson condor haven't looked at APL or anything but i'd do before garrotes if the targets will die fairly quick
after if you can get a full vanish on 3
fluid pagoda
Really liking assassination, very fun. Love it's stabbing gut animation.
steep obsidian
I got a 420 socketed crucible trinket gonna pop constantly and see if healers whine about it
it sims so well 😐
errant viper
Guyd
Guys
Can you Cloak of Shadows if carrying the orb on Grong?
Without dropping the orb?
Like to avoid the damage?
cobalt gyro
nop
errant viper
Will it drop the orb?
cobalt gyro
it'll delete the orb
visual quartz
yeah best bet is when you use it cloak the tantrum in your healers are struggling keeping you up with just the orb dmg
bleak spoke
Parsed 71 on jaina but it’s down
Feels5healedman
48k dps on the wall for 14% of it’s hp
harsh sphinx
grats 
weary arrow
for KR this week or in general, would it be better to run 3xEB, 2x SS, 1x TtK or 2xEB, 3xSS, 1x Treach/NP
i guess what i am really asking is having 3x SS or 3x EB more important for sin rogue overall damage in KR (and all other dungeons). I primarily running law in M+
winter moss
depends on gear
depends on tank
depends on affixes
there is no simple answer to this, basically you could also play 1xss 2~3x eb and 2 ttk traits and blast 45k overall
BUT
this comes from utilization, class knowledge and stuff like this
want my absolute generalistic opinion? play 3xSS 3xEB
you will suck balls on bossfights
want easy answer? play outlaw
weary arrow
I can run 1 ss 3 eb and 2 ttk, I can understand how that would be extremely strong
and im running + 19/20 typically I just want to optimize KR, I have a great understanding of sin. I raid with it exclusively except for op
visual mesa
For overall dmg probably 3x eb, depends on comp tho. Personally id say just run 1x eb in KR, due to it not having big impact dmg. Bosses in that instance last way too long on tyra
Ss has very high value until the long corridor
On tyra it will still have good value in the corridor due to mobs not livibg forever
winter moss
as stated above there really is no simple answer to this, but to generally say: 1xeb 1x ss rest st oriented traits due to immense boss fights
would do the trick for every pug group so 
winter moss
rest st oriented traits
shit applies to ss aswell
since you are forced to play subterfuge anyway
tropic ocean
I‘d not take more than 1 eb in kr rather 3 ttk 2ss
rocky ruin
i run 2xSS, 2x EB and 2 TTK
small aurora
Is it a dps increase to spam FoK once you have enough energy regen to sustain using it every gcd? or is it still worth using the combo points.
for this scenario lets say is is 4+ targets with 3xEB
crisp steppe
its hard to say it'll depend on a lot of things like your crit chance, stacks of TTK etc
if you're not too sure and theres no focus target you could just attempt to play around elaborate planning
that should be a decent middleground
small aurora
2 x TKK 34% crit, I just tested it on dummies and it looks like it is worth keeping EV up
crisp steppe
yeah if in practice it turns out that way definitely do that
small aurora
3k increase over just FoK spamming and sitting on 5 CP
crisp steppe
yeah seems good. + usually theres a target that has higher health than others or something thats more dangerous
rigid mango
At 5+ targets you fok spam without caring about CP
Before that, you still env
Esp with 2 ttk
old summit
rigid mango
Bbi is very good, more op traits
knotty falcon
Hey, i've seen in a guide that you need to pull about 80% energy before envenom, but i can't find an in depth thing about pooling energy anywhere, any info on that?
tropic ocean
i can just tell u my personal experience for 1 target
you want to preplan before your tb comes up so you want to have garrote and rupture refreshed ( so you dont need to refresh during tb) and prepool energy so you can get 3 envenom into tb
which is usually 140-150ish energy
median veldt
hey everyone , i been playing subtlety for a long time ,but now people are saying that subtlety is the worse spec to play in bfa , so im thinking of changing to assassination !
any tips or advice to take in mind ?
tropic ocean
play what you enjoy
woven summit
If you are not competing on a very high level than play whatever you want.
inner pond
what do you guys think about Hero Rotation addon ? Any good ?
visual quartz
Personal opinion, seems ok for someone learning tha class
tropic ocean
for most of my chars I used them as a starter until I had muscle memory
visual quartz
yeah, but relying on it later seems detrimental
inner pond
is doing dps with those addons comparable with a rotation that has a more human deduction in it ?
inner pond
did you noticed any increase in dps when you switched to manual ? 😄
cobalt pelican
the difference in button pressing will likely be very minor if they're apl based and you're playing based on the apl too, but it lets you focus on other aspects of the game that will be gains overall anyway
tropic ocean
@inner pond ofc
since it just gives u the patchwerk/dummy rotation
but in specific encounters you'll gain dps by holding skills/cds
due to movement or cleave etc (or phases of increased damage)
inner pond
@tropic ocean alles klar herr kommissar
dark crag
Bruder muss los
latent tendon
!ess
prisma monolithBOT
First research 8.2 Sin Essence notes Thank you Tisumi: https://tinyurl.com/y6ouut2o
robust cloak
hey guys, is there a particular reason SS/sub is more common in raids? is it just an easier playstyle? i've always used SS/sub even though MA/dd/np sims much higher for me, so i'm just a bit curious
drifting cloud
its not.
lost horizon
BoD has a lot of good pad for SS
drifting cloud
it just has a lot of good bosses to pad on
lost horizon
Pure ST MA does better
robust cloak
ah that makes a lot of sense haha
lost horizon
Champs jfm grong all have insane pad
drifting cloud
last 3 bosses 90% of top parses are MA
lost horizon
Well jfm is 2 bosses anyway
Rasta is nutty pad as well, but yeah exactly as ryler said
Mekka you won't see anyone running SS unless they just straight up didn't have better pieces
Or they made a bad choice lmao
tropic ocean
for rasta ss is good for st too
lost horizon
No I meant grong
robust cloak
is BBI good for m+ as well?
lost horizon
Not ideal
Generally you wanna mix EB/SS/TTK
Though bbi would probably be just behind those options
drifting cloud
bbi is the next best thing
robust cloak
yeah that's what i'm running, 3x eb, 2x ss, 1x ttk
just got my first BBI piece so doing a little updated research
lost horizon
The proc w/EB is nice
rigid mango
Those two together would've been ideal, but you can't so 
robust cloak
i'm guessing 1x bbi, 1x ttk, 2x eb and 2x ss would be quite ssolid on tyrannical weeks in low density dungeons?
lost horizon
Seems fine? You kinda have to adjust around the instance and how you intend to pull
That + the difficult in directly comparing output in dungeons makes it so there's no easy answer for trait combos
gloomy slate
Out of those 3, I would use the deadeye spyglass and plumage
rigid mango
Arguably best combo there is, apart from lurk + spyglass
but lurk isn't good in certain weeks where the damage can actually mean alot, like grev
charred lantern
yo guys, is there a WA profile which also indicates SS(Subterfuge) Garrote? or what WA prfile do you use
rigid mango
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rigid mango
There might be some ther
I don't eprsonally have one, but I've seen people talk about it several times and would be shocked if none of the above don't include atleast 1 of what you're looking for
charred lantern
alright ill check thank you!
civic palm
PIMP MY SHIT!! 
charred lantern
lol
rigid mango
miz, does yours include it?
civic palm
Yer
charred lantern
great
proud wren
What do I need to know about sin? I mean I’ve been using it in bgs but not pvp
Pve***
civic palm
The guide is short enough, check the pins as well, not much complexity to it atm to perform well.
woven summit
Just learn the basic rotation from the guide and you'll get the hang of it quickly.
It's really not a hard spec in order to be decent
proud wren
What about aoe
I ran a mythic + with it just to see how I’d do, aoe wasn’t good unless there was a lot of trash so I could spread gorrotes around after breaking stealth and ruptured and using FON
Single target was about 18-22k (386ilvl)
But then again my daggers are only 360
pastel vault
You're gonna need echoing blades and or shrouded suffocation traits if you want any aoe dmg
proud wren
I have shrouded but not echoing blades, suppose I need to reforge some peices and get pick it
What stacks? Does echoing blades stack? And if so do I need to stack it?
pastel vault
Yeah , I mean 3x EB is just 3x the damage
proud wren
Ahhh so what are the good pve traits?
pastel vault
For m+? 3x eb, 3x shrouded
proud wren
Anything else or I’m free for whatever
And also, how is sin against outlaw in high mythics+ and raids which one is on top? Or is it kind of even, I was maining outlaw (391) ilvl atm and decided to try sin for pvp and started to love it so I want to have 2 specs to switch between to give me some variety
pastel vault
Blight borne is good
pastel vault
Ehh
Outlaw wins in m+, they're close in underrot I think.
Raid is asa
But they're both good at both
proud wren
Much of a diff between outlaw and asa in raid? Or just a slight pull ahead from sin
woven summit
I do pretty solid aoe in keys with 3 echoing blades, and two shrouded suffocation
proud wren
I’ve been grinding mythics all week for daggers and I’ve had literally 0 luck
woven summit
I can't remember being beaten by an outlaw rogue when it comes to single target tbh
proud wren
It’s like they are trying to keep them away from me
proud wren
My outlaw does about 24-27-28k dps single with little mechanics but a lot of mechanics it’s about 18-22k
Yea I’ve ran ALOT of Tol Dagor and atal dazar
When I DO get loots it’s crap I don’t need
woven summit
you'll get one in weekly chest 😄
proud wren
Even bought some of those tokens from the guy in the transmog place for a bonus roll
Gave me pants EVERY TIME
small aurora
Wait are you saying you do 24-28k ST at 391?
strange python
wtf, if u do 24-28k single at 391 give me tips LOL
sick cradle
3EB2SS or 2EB3SS in m+?
strange python
id prob run 2nd one this week
proud wren
thats outlaw @strange python
and i said that on a boss with almost no mechanics
with mechanics its around somewhere around 16-22k ish
rigid mango
Still, I'd be amazed if you simmed even near to that @proud wren , I'd love to see what you're rocking tbh
rotund pivot
i actually need to get the assassination artifact weapon to get hidden appearence?
civic palm
Need?
sour wraith
Don't need to have it on you but once you loot it you need it equipped to learn it
strange python
even with outlaw, 24-28k single at 391 ilvl?
rotund pivot
it doesn't take long does it?
strange python
that's a little unrealistic tbh
rotund pivot
to get the hidden appearence drop that is
strange python
🤷
sour wraith
It's an rng drop, idk if Blizz changed the drop chances or not @rotund pivot
rotund pivot
hmm just did the first part where i had to kill guy for coded message but questline stopped there and didnt give me what to do next
visual quartz
yeah I cant imagine that without some kinda adds with his ilvl @rigid mango. maybe hes doing orb on Grong with recount 😛
rigid mango
idk sounds like absolutely insane numbrs
visual quartz
I did roll with an outlaw last M BoD, he was keeping up with me on some ST fights, beat my ass on jadefire and I was ruby bitch so he erased me on oppu
rigid mango
Sup
errant viper
Was wondering if someone could review and critique my logs on my last Raid
rotund pivot
got hidden appearence on 2nd kill so its def easy
errant viper
Kind of new to Raiding and starting to care about my DPS
wondering where I can improve
civic palm
or you got lucky.
rigid mango
Link your logs and someone will help
errant viper
desert night
Is there some suggestion guide for certain M+'s and trait selection?
rigid mango
Wdym? Specific set ups for specific dungeons or?
desert night
Ah, yeah, like this week for example: Tyrannical. Does that dictate some Trait selections over others? Does Echoing Blades lose value to try and focus more Single Target for certain M+'s?
rigid mango
There isn't any general list afaik
Checking in here/assa streamers are your safest bets I'd think
And yes, during tyr weeks I wouldn't recommend going more than 2 eb
Meanwhile it's defo good in fort weeks
Tyr weeks favour ttk and ss, so if you have builds more in that area it'll generally be quite good
desert night
that's great! thank you for the tip.
edgy pawn
Has anyone tested the new customizable rings on the ptr? The combination of dealing roughly 45k nature damage everytime im dealing nature damage seems kinda broken, if i am not misunderstandimg something completely
echo cargo
@edgy pawn what you talking about? O_o
cobalt gyro
nope, it probably doesn't have one ATM on purpose.
versed mica
Why is it that I sim so high with MA, but with subterfuge I sim way lower even with SS traits, and yet the highest dps sin rogues on warcraftlogs use both of those?
spice surge
Because youre simming singletarget. For ST fights (such as jaina) you see MA, but for fights with adds you can pad on SS looks way better on logs
royal roost
what talents yall run in KR for a tyran week, jw
tropic ocean
elusiveness
empty rivet
Is masterassasin intended to feel that bad to play ? I mean when I vanish at 4 or 5 CP I use envenom and multilate after what could give me 4 CP to feel good and to use envenom in the last global, but sometimes you just get 3 CP because one weapon does not crit ? Plays like the bug in legion when shoulders were new
tropic ocean
u dont have 100% crit chance so
yes it can happen
safecall use is: vanish > tb > mutilate > envenom
empty rivet
Thanks I didnt know the safecall yet
small aurora
Thoughts on going full ST this week in TD?
ill give it a go as it's a super low key, DDx2 NPx1 SSx1 and 2xTTK
so not full ST but defs no aoe padding
real bay
if its low doesnt matter much what you pick
small aurora
yeah I wanted to see if anyone was doing it on higher end keys
hidden plinth
what is the best m+ trait setting?
woven summit
I guess 3 echoing blades and 3 shrouded suffocation
I think if you have that you are gucci tbh
marble hemlock
depends on many factors, like what dungeon it is, what the group composition looks like, which affixes etc.
generally speaking, a combination of EB, SS and TTK traits is going to give you the best results. how many of each depends on the aforementioned factors
woven summit
Seliathan that's true, but you are talking about competitive gameplay
If you are only doing like +10-+13s you don't need to think that much imo
I think the obvious shrouded suffocations and echoing blades will do everyone good for a semi-casual gameplay
marble hemlock
well, he wouldnt be asking for the "best" m+ setup if he didnt care and just wanted to play whatever 😃
woven summit
yeah that's true 😄
So Zorni what's your goal in the game?
But yeah Seliathan I agree if you are doing 15s and over you need to plan
What do you think about scent though?
marble hemlock
its kind of inbetween ttk and eb, but worse than either one
has a much higher rampup to provide sustained aoe than EB does, and the prio capabilities potentially are better than ttk, but its the same issue and also much worse on ST
woven summit
yeah true, guess it won't hurt if you lack some of the better traits but that's about it
mossy adder
Would it be a boss damage increase to be rupturing and garroting one undying guardian add on Uu'nat?
Or is that just padding for the sake of padding (mythic)
pallid solar
Any good addons to assist with rotation for this alt? Using hekili atm, but curious if they're better ones out there
rigid mango
Iirc hero rotation is decent
cobalt gyro
From my understanding hero rotation uses the APL
So whatever it's telling you to do is what the sim would do
marble hemlock
@mossy adder getting dots up on the guardians right before TB is a minor dps increase on the boss, yes
in p3 you wanna multidot on them because you actually need to dps them regularly
mossy adder
Hmm i see, so if aiming to just pump the boss damage then i technically should
I had been making sure i always had one extra rupture out all the way through the fight but didnt feel it gave me any extra damage
marble hemlock
its very minor
flat wadi
How many CP ruptures do you apply to secodnary targets in 3-4+ targets (m+)
forest acorn
for subterfuge, would you cast vanish immediately when off cd or wait til garrote is in pandemic?
rigid mango
And then depending on the amount of targets, you either fok spam or just keep on doing fok -> env
wide stone
Whats the best traits for m+ along with 3x EB?
modest tendon
A question on how to maximise effectiveness of toxic blade, should you be popping it as soon as it’s up or should you wait for 4 combo points to get an envenom off as soon as possible, wow analyszer suggests I’m not using it nearly as much as I should be but I’m specifically trying to make sure my poisons are up to date and I have 4 combo points
rigid mango
Wow analyzer isn't supported for assa, so that's a first
you want to read 2+ envenoms in the window of TB
modest tendon
Iv heard that, sometimes Iv let rupture/garrotte fall off for a second or two to get the extra envenom off is that really terrible?
rigid mango
You don't want that to happen either
modest tendon
It’s just a matter of holding on to it until you can set it up then?
rigid mango
Unless you know you'll be able to reapply RIGHT after
and not miss a lot of uptime
No, you don't want to hold it either
You want to use it on cd, whilst being able to get 2 envenoms in the window whilst also not losing bleed uptime
Welcome to the minigame that is the skill ceiling of assa
modest tendon
I should be anticipating it’s cooldown so I can use it as soon as it’s up
That adds a whole dimension of skill that has never occurred to me before
rigid mango
Yep
You need to play around TB way more than you think
There's a lot of intricacies with it
wide stone
Wait so what do you usually run for m+ ?
modest tendon
Do you run that for every week?
rigid mango
I don't, I ran 3 Eb last week
I wouldn't put 3 traits into AOE blast when it's tyr though
When my keys are normally decided by the dps and hps of 1 boss
wide stone
Why 3x TTK?
rigid mango
Because it's really good
rigid mango
You focus on prio damage
You pump hard envenom damage into 1 target
It's great on bosses
and still super good on your day to day pack
wide stone
And for raid?
rigid mango
unless there are 5+ targets, then u mongo fok
wide stone
Is that still 3x DD?
rigid mango
Depends on the boss really
3 DD and MA is great on the last 3 bosses
but some SS can be good on the first 6 if you're looking for parses
but are normally just padding, tbh
wide stone
Gotcha
rigid mango
sub+ss is really good for most raid encounters
and not far off on the last 3
Just that the last 3 you don't really have proper situation to get more than 1 empowered garrote off
modest tendon
On really big pulls and reapings you spam crimson tempest after you have a few ruptures up right? Would you be wasting your ttk by using crimson tempest as your combo point dump, like does ttk and crimson tempest not work well together in big air situations?
rigid mango
You don't use CT
modest tendon
I use poison bomb, I just experimented with it and found it a bit shit
Was just confirming 😛
wide stone
Oh yeah, HB or PoiBomb
modest tendon
Is HB viable?
spice surge
With 3x EB fok and ct does basicly the same damage
wide stone
I dunno if it is @modest tendon
spice surge
Depends on how you define viable, its not too bad no. But it requries you to have 3x eb and even then in most dungeons its at best the same as pb
flat wadi
Should you reapply rupture after vanish or just let it sit normally?
spice surge
But its more the fact that even though it might give you roughly the same overall dps, its still mostly pad damage with the stacking effect sniping damage on low hp adds
modest tendon
It seems to contradict how eb works, like you need to spam it to get the effects of eb, but hb wants you to save it for the big 20 stack crit
real bay
hb does not buff eb
marble hemlock
its best to just consider HB as a passive damage increase to your fok damage (which gets increased by EB)
spice surge
20% two times is the same as 40% one time (barring on-use effects)
marble hemlock
dont forget that EB significantly increases fok damage, in addition to having the echo-proc on crit
@real bay
modest tendon
Really feeling like pb is better in almost every scenario
marble hemlock
it is
spice surge
But tbh, its not that far behind
marble hemlock
3EB is fine. it may not be optimal for a tyrannical week for example, but its not like youre missing out on thousands of DPS on bosses by having 1 more than you need
modest tendon
Well maybe a teeming motherlode fortified week, hb would be better, better question is why would you do motherlode on a fortified teeming week
real bay
@marble hemlock true I always forget it buffs fok
marble hemlock
in any case, fok damage in a good trash-heavy key is somewhere between 15-18%
even with a generous assumption of HB increasing that number by ~15%, you're looking at 2.5-3% more overall if you run HB
compared to the 3-5% PB does
flat wadi
During vendetta should you try to push out as much envenom damage as you can?
modest tendon
Isn’t that obviously yes?
flat wadi
Well i ma very new ucnertain and bad rogue palyer so jsut want every knowledge i can get
modest tendon
So am I haha, but you want to use it in situations where you can make full use of it, like a boss fight or a big add where you get that focus
A question to more experienced players than myself would be can you use it in big aoe situations where you dump all of your envenoms into it as a focus?
spice surge
It feels good as assa and you do very good prio damage
Even though if you played sub those finishers would do basicly double that damage 😄
marble hemlock
dont mock my 120k envenom crits 😦
spice surge
With almost 0 dmg to other targets ofc
strange python
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
First research 8.2 Sin Essence notes Thank you Tisumi: https://tinyurl.com/y6ouut2o
bold haven
So im trying to switch from outlaw to assassination. the 3x ss and 3x eb mythic+ build. Haste /crit were priority then- now mastery/crit...How much of dps loss do you see if you dont stack mastery or at first anyways
rigid mango
I don't know exact numbers, but you'll see better boss damage but lower overall
Since haste is a null stat when you get 5 bleeds out
Some people like to keep their haste at around 10% for comforts sake, but I chunk it as low as possible
bold haven
so when it comes to assassination, you would drop ilvl for mastery/crit gear
just to drop the haste
rigid mango
Yes, I guess so
Mastery and crit are a much higher prio than anything else
You want crit at around 35% and mast as high as possible
I've got 5% haste atm
And 5% versa
bold haven
so this is my mastery stacking, best i can do https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator#us/area 52/scarlletnite
bold haven
its simming now and taking forever. Lets assume, that they are the same for now. Running 25%crit with 18%haste and 22mastery. i yeild the same sims as 27% crit, 10% haste and 38% mastery
almost identical to askmrrobot
bold haven
i ran both
rigid mango
no one runs patchwerk sim for m+
It doesn't show anything
You're running the full pad build on assa
cobalt gyro
if we do it's a very specific patchwerk sim
visual quartz
GCB should be your first thing to replace, not great for M+
wooden path
Hi guys if I'm looking at gearing rogue for raiding is a. Assassin the stronger choice? And b. Who would you point me towards to look for videos or resources on the current stats/azerite I need to aim towards?
zinc willow
Other then having someone heal me, no good way to do dummy dps to test lurker's insidious gift right?
wooden path
Like I know there is a few bits on here already but just wanted to know if it's up to date?
rigid mango
It is aye
And yes, assa is generally a really good chocie
Both it and outlaw are in equally good spots, in different ways, you'll find success with either
zinc willow
ill give it a shot
solar rose
Sims aren’t accurate for assa aoe especially the 3ss 3eb build, it’s not spamming fan of knives enough. Your best stats for that setup are going to be crit vers not crit mastery
marble hemlock
❤ @solar rose
solar rose
@marble hemlock ❤
civic palm
❤ @civic palm ❤
solar rose
@civic palm ❤
crimson condor
decisions - 3x eb, 2x ss, 1x ttk or 3x eb, 1x ss, 2x ttk
rigid mango
2nd
but neither this week
3 EB during tyr weeks is just toomuch of a waste
You're playing without 3 of your traits on a vast majority of bosses
During fort bosses, that's fine, during tyr bosses, not so much
rigid mango
Np is never good
crimson condor
tc?
rigid mango
2/2/2 is better
Aye, tc'd be better
Generally, higher ttk is beter during tyr
and higher eb better during fort
zenith gust
@rigid mango always helping ❤
rigid mango
I'm still nothing compared to the man typing atm
and he stops typing so it looks weird
civic palm
O _O
rigid mango
THERE WE GO
solar rose
3eb isn't bad even on tyrannical weeks, majority of dungeons are comprised of trash, you're trading off a few thousand dps off bosses to have significantly worse AoE. That also varies on the dungeon if the boss matters, on a KR or temple or first boss in freehold on tyrannical, yeah, don't take 3 eb.
civic palm
awkward
rigid mango
There
see
Told ya
I just think 3 EB is a bit over kill
I don't feel like playing with such lack luster ST is worth it, for me atleast
esp when I normally run with 2 aoe blasters and I can focus more on prio ttk dmg
civic palm
Was going to say, if there are no ST focuses,
¯_(ツ)_/¯
But if you've other AoE people in the comp. then you might be better off refocusing.
rigid mango
Yeah, I mean I nearly always run with atleast 1 outlaw
and normally something similar
solar rose
I don't really think that's how dungeons work, if you run with 2 aoe gigga blasters, adding 1 more just means you get through the dungeon faster???? It's not like adding 3eb you go from doing 24k to 17k, you're talking about a few thousand dps. TTK isn't that strong on single target compared to when you're funneling with it.
rigid mango
I mean I just feel some bosses you wipe bec of the lack of dps
But that might just be anecdotal to me
solar rose
That's kinda why I said it depends on if the boss matters, if you're going into a decently high kings rest or temple, you probably don't want to run 3, but generally it's ok to run 3 even on tyrannical weeks.
rigid mango
I see your reasoning, but I also follow seli and more or less just play w/ever he plays
solar rose
Seli likes the prio damage, I like the gigga blast aoe overall build 
rigid mango
I just feel like
If I wanna go 3 eb during tyr
might aswell go outlaw
since that's just 3 EB deluxe
solar rose
With appropriate stats and azerite, I think EB literally does the same damage or very similar damage as outlaw, at least from my experience playing with other outlaws when I'm playing assa. It really depends on what you're going for.
rigid mango
yeah, during fort weeks I run 3 EB and blast
but during tyr, just goign 5 ST traits and still blasting aoe like a madman just feels like a better option
solar rose
when the outlaws run out of BF charges and you're still blasting
solar rose
I think that varies on key level, on lower levels yeah
rigid mango
- Just noticed I've got pretty much BiS azerite for outlaw so might give it a try
but don't tell seli
solar rose
oooo when he reads that you're done for
rigid mango
I'm giga dead gg
tbh I didn't even know I had half of my pieces
but assa is so much more fun anyways
solar rose
agreed, and I tend to find myself debating on what azerite I want to run depending on what we need
rigid mango
What, when going outlaw or assa?
solar rose
assa
rigid mango
ah ye
It sorta sucks to pug as assa ngl
Diff groups diff azerite
Must be nice you competent players with competent groups
Have you played assa at all in higher WF keys and such?
solar rose
Not as of lately, but did world first 24 temple as assa
rigid mango
Ah neat, are your plans to head back to the light side once 8.2 hits?
I bet I'm not the first to ask that, huh
crisp steppe
balance 😃
solar rose
Gonna play what I think is best for the key, mby I play more assa
rigid mango
Hope so 
crisp steppe
I can see blood of the enemy favoring assa because it means fok spam is gonna reach the point where its nuts on smaller pulls quicker
ornate aspen
!Azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
crisp steppe
crit chance + crit dmg
rigid mango
Ye
It's like fucking vin diesel in Fast n furiouys
NITRO: ON
FOK FOK FOK FOK FOK FOK FOK FOK
crisp steppe
obviously favors sin for st too but ultimately it comes down to balancing
crisp steppe
maybe exsg is lit with blood
rigid mango
Why?
rigid mango
Sure, but I don't see the reasoning that crit makes exsang better
crisp steppe
I think each use of exsg is more dmg than toxic blade
crisp steppe
so being able to damage amp exsg
crisp steppe
is better than damage amping toxic blade
crisp steppe
I definitely think if blood is the best essence thats in exsg favor
still might not be enough
rigid mango
I still don't see how it makes it that much better
Just because it aligns with it?
but poorly so
rigid mango
It sounds straight up bad
crisp steppe
yes its double the cd
but you get to fit more dmg into ur blood of the enemy window
zenith gust
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
First research 8.2 Sin Essence notes Thank you Tisumi: https://tinyurl.com/y6ouut2o
rigid mango
Yah but the thing is, after 1st it wont alignt
align*
And it means that you either have to use one or the other suboptimally
Until 6 minutes
crisp steppe
going to depend on fight I suppose
rigid mango
Meanwhile with tb, each usage of blood should be with vend + tb
crisp steppe
exsg was good in most of uldir
civic palm
and before DD scaling/etc.
crisp steppe
yeah DD is the main culprit I suppose
on a lot of fights exsg is jsut weaker mechanically as well
rigid mango
The fact that DD and MA got so much better
crisp steppe
unless u really need the burst
rigid mango
I doubt exsang will be better lest it has some specific sync
crisp steppe
its nice to run away from mechanic and ur dots is just chilling still
I put faith in the exsg 😃
rigid mango
I mean we're soon at the "DS is soon maybe viable" stage
crisp steppe
being able to play triple ss might also be nice on some fights
really not looked into things at all
crisp steppe
I wonder if ds is already better for ppl that dont pool properly anyway
rigid mango
Doubt it
crisp steppe
as long as ur playing MA it seems fine
rigid mango
Vigor is literally just a rotation saver
doesn't matter if you fuck it up
If your energy is backa lready, you'll barely feel it
wise bear
do ppl actually use exsg now?
wise bear
oh so u guys talking about 8.2
crisp steppe
yeah
wise bear
cool cool
crisp steppe
hoping with some push from essences
rigid mango
EXS
NG
crisp steppe
exsg is so fat on fortified bosses too when it lives like a minute or so
feels good
wise bear
i never play assasin in dungs tho
crisp steppe
idk yeah im not doing high keys anway
so shit dies qu ick
exsg with hero is something else
rigid mango
That fucking raptor
wise bear
this week sin is actually better if u have outlaw in ur group
crisp steppe
yeah thats nice
rigid mango
yeah
crisp steppe
I suspect outlaw is better this week brraak
wise bear
true
rigid mango
they just cleave everything
wise bear
yeah i like sin now i understand it more and more
crisp steppe
depends on grp
rigid mango
you're doing big enough pulls
crisp steppe
if ur still pulling big assa is still gonna be good
wise bear
only 1 thing i miss tho
wise bear
i can't do 200k+ on reaping xd
crisp steppe
?
crisp steppe
yeah they need to be close
wise bear
only got 1 atm 😦
crisp steppe
dps goes low when ur in combat forever
wise bear
true
rigid mango
if u can rush
crisp steppe
like those freehold reaping around 2nd boss area
rigid mango
g g g -> rup rup
crisp steppe
is usually big aoe
crisp steppe
since u kill them so close to eachother
yeah same
even bigger
if u get the maggot dmg in
rigid mango
Yep
I mean during fort weeks
w 3 eb
and pulling huge + reap
I've done over 200k ez
wise bear
but i mean
if u have like
outlaw and and frost mage
and they are doing srs damage
there is not enough time xD
crisp steppe
yeah
wise bear
but yeah on bosses i like it alot better than outlaw
crisp steppe
im not convinced assa is a lot better than outlaw on bosses
depends on boss of course and duration of fight
but as assa you give up traits completely
like you're playing with 3 traits that help in ST
nimble tartan
mm
tall basalt
@crisp steppe idk, i usually outdps outlaws on bosses
the only time i don't is if theyre like 40+ ilvl above me
errant viper
What talents are you guys running for M+? Tried the one's recommended in Ravenholdt, but they really toned down my single target DPS, not sure if I'm comfortable with that...
errant viper
3 nothing personal, 3 double dose 3 gutripper
errant viper
I've only got one set of gear so far, haven't been able to get ahold of a second one yet
rigid mango
That's like
horrible
Your ST shouldn't be that good
as with those traits
None of those are any good, at all in m+
This si why gearing for sin is way harder tahn outlaw
small aurora
@crisp steppe Yeah I switched to sin to help on ST but my Outlaw does more damage. This is with full pad 3xeb also i'm a shit sin rogue.
rigid mango
Yes
You shouldn't even worry about St
NONE of those traits should EVER be run in m+
Your m+ set up should be a mix of SS/EB/TTK
errant viper
Just to be sure, they are the optimal raiding traits, right?
rigid mango
Yes, not the best
but for sure good in some situatiosn
There are better set ups for some situations that will yield more output, but mostly pad.
small aurora
like SS on rasta?
rigid mango
^
small aurora
EB on jadefire worth thinking about?
rigid mango
No
errant viper
Okay so I oughta run a second set of azerite gear for M+
errant viper
And just ignore ST completely, solely focus on MT?
rigid mango
Sup
You run acouple EB for aoe
without it, your aoe is super lackluster
And then fill out rest with the rest of the traits
SS is a MUST, atleast 1
And TTK is super good for m+
errant viper
What would the ideal set of traits be? 3 EBs, 1 SS, 2 TTKs?
civic palm
Pulls are not large enough, don't live long enough.
errant viper
In M+, how well does assassin do once we've got the traits you mentioned?
civic palm
Very.
errant viper
I've heard outlaw tends to do better, but I refuse to roll the bones...
errant viper
Oh.
civic palm
You will be declined for being SIN and those people are idiots.
rigid mango
It really depends on the tank
errant viper
I see
civic palm
OTL is also much easier to play.
rigid mango
and the allround pulls and luck
errant viper
And with those traits, we'd still be able to do decent ST as you said, right?
Something I suppose outlaw will have more of a problem with
rigid mango
yeah
It won't be awesome
also you chunk your haste
real low
and it'll feel bad to play
but your damage is really good
if you hate it, keep your haste at around 10% for a smoother experience
errant viper
Would you say go for a complete different set of gear for M+ vs Raids?
Or is that taking it too far?
rigid mango
yeah
errant viper
I mean, besides having a different set of azerite pieces
zenith gust
Au need haste for raids
glacial jasper
Only thing that sucks at playing sin over outlaw for me is the truely huge lose of no grappling hook
Miss it every time I play sin
rigid mango
Cool
anyways
yeah
No haste, you want it all into crit and mast if you're running ttk's
vers > mast if you have no ttks
errant viper
For my regular raiding set, if I've got very high mast and very low haste, I'm kinda fucked right?
Like should just work as much as I can on getting haste?
rigid mango
A bit so
Just sim it
Sims'll probably tell you crit and haste
and then after a while, haste becomes mastery
rigid mango
Doubt it
civic palm
will remember this
errant viper
I was told by a video guide on Assassin raiding that the best traits were 3x Double Dose 2x Nothing Personal 1x Treacherous Covenant....
rigid mango
That's wrong
best is
3 dd 1 np 1 bbi 1 ttk 3 op
If you want to be truly minmaxxing about it
civic palm
Best isn't that either.
There's no SS in there and even if you're progging it's better on 6/9 fights.
zenith gust
Depends on boss fight i guess
rigid mango
ok yes
I assumed last 3
my bad, with MA and last 3 bosses in mind
that's the best set up
for the rest, 1 or more SS are gonna give you better damage, probably
but like prev stated, a lot of it can be pad
civic palm
Other than the OP, which is almost useless on one of those bosses :3
and isn't 66% better than 2 other BiS options :3
civic palm
Now to find something that's wrong with Wall.
rigid mango
It sims the highest, in practice, it isn't perfect
civic palm
hmmm
civic palm
There's not, thankfully?
civic palm
NP tends to make mastery better, for sure.
rigid mango
And crit with bbi
and mast with ttk
etc
You'll get a feel for it sooner or later
zenith gust
Bbi makes crit more valuable?
By the way, never got gorak tuls... should i keep gambling or just save residuum for 8.2?
drifting cloud
thats on you, but the increase to next season is going to be way bigger
so if you have like under 5k residuum its not really worth anything
zenith gust
Yeah...and blizz usually trolls me so i think i will ssve it
zenith gust
Any idea on how much will highest pieces cost in 8.2?
zenith gust
??
crisp steppe
25 times as much as now
zenith gust
U trolling
onyx rock
more like x13
crisp steppe
No
drifting cloud
it will be more than x13 for sure
onyx rock
season 1 - 2 was x13.. but i dont know... just assuming
crisp steppe
It was 10
drifting cloud
tr came ingame months after uldir
and they didnt like how people did azerite runs, so theyre just gonna make it bigger
thats why I said stockpiling under 5k tr isnt going to do anything if the weekly is going to give you like 15k 😄
zenith gust
I dont understand, 25 times what?
crisp steppe
1725*25
visual quartz
you asked the question and dont understand the anwser lol
honest needle
im new to pvp AS assaination whats best way to beat a ret paly
[11:52 PM] day: I over gear him n he still wins
[11:52 PM] day: the bubble pisses me off
civic palm
mmm
fading ocean
dalla dalla @civic palm
civic palm
#off-topic 👈 ❤
ruby idol
rose perch
bleak spoke
@solar rose
last zephyr
And now check the boss damage 
lusty gale
^ delusional
rose perch
specs sadly not viable anymore guys we gotta all go home
lusty gale
point proven kap
bleak spoke
Kapp
cobalt gyro
mfw dratnos is a bad sin
steep obsidian
id win that meter ez
even hav a 420 insidious gift trinket to help
its a damage taken meter /nod
rose perch
thats an enemy damage taken meter!
steep obsidian
i know
rose perch
sadly i have to hang up my daggers and retire after this embarassment it has been fun
steep obsidian
time to reroll from rogue
pastel vault
double down and go sub
I tried that sabod and now my dungeon slice sim is 2k lower than my st sim 😄
blizz should probably fix afflic aoe
steep obsidian
what is the affix next season anyway
meager nebula
all we know is that new mobs are added throughout the dungeon
so its a teeming type affix
strange python
Are there any special daggers for assassination?
Like the bile stained crawg tusks for outlaw?
errant viper
Azerite Globules vs Heed My Call?
glacial vault
Heed
solar rose
what traits were u running wut
rose perch
It was a scuffo deplete run with multiple boss pulls, conscript dmg in, etc
but i was 3SS1NP1Blightborne1Twist
deaths on bosses too
solar rose
its not season 1 dratnos.... wheres the eb...
solar rose
noooo man
marble hemlock
i usually run 2ss 2ttk 1eb 1bbi in temple
tall basalt
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
limpid topaz
HEy guys- can you help me with my trinkets? bloodmallet says + ~300 dps and raidbot sim says -400 dps. what is correct? 😃 (galcaller(400)+plumage (400+socket)vs plumage(400+Socket) + dead eye spyglass (410 + socket) (assasination)
meager nebula
sims are more reliable as bloodmallet uses a specific set of gear
the only trinket to keep in mind is the galecallers, as you'd have to get the full 10 seconds out of each usage to make it worth as much as it is in the sims
as sims are strictly patchwerk
limpid topaz
ok - so i keep it in my inventory and sim again if my stats changes? 😃
meager nebula
if its close enough to your other trinkets yeah
tropic ocean
its ok @rose perch you can shine in classic
quiet elbow
master assassin is simming more on single target for me, the guide doesn't say exactly how to use it though
just pop vanish and continue as normal every time i can?
Master Assassin talented
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Vanish
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
ah, found it ^
rigid mango
Yeah, vend and vanish become 1 major cd
strange python
Hi can any1 tell me what i do wrong at that bosses? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/39570524?zone=21&mode=detailed#difficulty=4
Why not rupture boss on pull, instead of 3 adds?
Fok > Fok > TB > Fok > Fok > Rup > Fok > Garr
that rotation is just plain awful. Should read the pinned guide about rotation and how to play around our CD's
you mean on the first?
yepp
crimson condor
Zine - thanks for all the tips the other day for my gear. Topping the charts and went from 1200 to 1700 io in just a few days 👌
uneven summit
So personal favourites, assa or outlaw in m+?
rigid mango
Assa
uneven summit
3x echo, 3x ss :D?
rigid mango
no
not this week even more so
3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss this week
3 eb 2 ttk 1 ss next week
maybe 2 ss instead of ttk,
neat beacon
What's the best stat to focus with the foods?
crisp steppe
@fading ocean focus dmg
fading ocean
stat weights
crisp steppe
getting 5 cps per fok
marble hemlock
Running high crit to get good value out of Echoing blades, will also lead to high CP generation on AoE due to Seal Fate
Dumping those CPs via Envenoms buffed by TTK gives us good prio damage
fading ocean
ic ic
lethal heart
@marble hemlock 
marble hemlock
❤
smoky sundial
Hi everyone! I’m a new assassin here and wondering what’s the best opener for 1v1. 😀
smoky sundial
Thanks
wide stone
is there a list/specific trait stack that is best for each boss in BoD?
wide stone
i see
tropic ocean
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
!help
nimble tartan
Good morning beautifuls
strange python
Heya. What would be the best race to play assassination as ?
Perhaps zandalari trolls with the 4 % crit?
tropic ocean
depends on what content you are interested in doing