it works as such
#assassination
rigid mango
any SS traits at all = sub
if you have none = ma
for raiding
for m+ you always want to have atelast 1 ss trait
last parrot
i would still elaborate, subterfuge, vigor, cheat death, iron wire, tb, XXX for m+
tall basalt
does SS apply to garrotes that happen out of stealth but during subterfuge?
last parrot
dont know in last row--back then i used CT
rigid mango
yes @tall basalt
You get 3x off
that are all empowered by both
hence why you want the two paired
visual quartz
CT feels fun on large packs if your other 2 dps are dead 😛
last parrot
what do you use in m+ last row? bomb?
rigid mango
ye
last parrot
woah do I have to do those quests? XD
some new "story" - qs
rocky ruin
are we using now Poison Bomb instead of CT in M+?
civic palm
yes
crisp steppe
yes
dark crag
Yes
civic palm
Reason: More DMG.
dark crag
Your aoe dmg is fok now
rocky ruin
okay then im still okay with 2xSS,2xEB and 2xTTK and Poison Bomb?
dark crag
Yes
rocky ruin
so the overall dmg from Fok and PB make it up for CT?
civic palm
and ENV, etc.
dark crag
There is a point there 1 ct is less dmg than 1 fok and env is always worth for prio mobs and env buff
crisp steppe
CT is just a weak option for improving your AoE. or rather doesnt improve ur aoe at all.
if you want more AoE go 3x EB instead
dark crag
I implied that as common knowledge
civic palm
It's good without dmg amp being considered.
and if you literally cannot live through the damage...
_>
empty tide
ye, just dropped one, gonna try it today
flint star
Can someone explain how EB works? Tooltip is vague.
dark crag
It foks when you crit fok
rocky ruin
Does stats priority change too somehow or it is still Crit/haste Raid and Crit/Mastery M+?
dark crag
rigid mango
yes
That exactly
but after a while haste<mastery for raiding
you aim for about 35% crit
and then pour rest into mast
if ur running 2 ttk like I am atleast
rocky ruin
your running 2 ttk only for m+ or raid too?
rocky ruin
Cepah Chest its the only piece i know that good DD and TTK for raid so
rocky ruin
i got 31.82% Crit in my M+ Gear Setup
rigid mango
and dd ttk op is better than dd np ele whirl
if there was a dd np op chest piece
it'd be better than ceph
rocky ruin
how often does harlan dice proc?
rigid mango
Enough to be good
last zephyr
has anyone used the crit boots on uunat and can share the experience?
rigid mango
They're good
but only if the boss allows it
if it gets rid of the stacks, it's bad, if you can semei consistantly have it up
civic palm
Which is basically all of them.
last zephyr
"but only if the boss allows it" thats why im asking if any1 has experience with the boots on uunat mythic <:
civic palm
Don't get hit by things you cannot not get hit by and you will be fine.
dark crag
Even if they drop, the stacks are so fast up again
Except when they perma drop like at jaina
hazy skiff
anybody know if there has been any news about titan residuum in 8.2?
rigid mango
wdym
hazy skiff
like how much prices are going up by? or if we should start saving now
rigid mango
if you're happy with your pieces
Yeah, save
I'll be saving even though I don't have technical BiS
crisp steppe
rumor is *25 from ppl at some dev summit or smthing @hazy skiff
hazy skiff
thanks for the info guys
dark crag
1,7k × 25?
crisp steppe
yes
crimson condor
Trinket question - 410 Galecaller or lurker's gift for m+?
crimson condor
Sweet ty
glacial jasper
i wouldnt say haste is garbage but yea lurkers is super strong
rigid mango
No
haste is literally
HOT garbge
for m+
Genuinly, horrible.
@glacial jasper why is it not garbage?
crisp steppe
singletarget
dark crag
In boss fights it has some use
crisp steppe
thats it
rigid mango
ofc
crisp steppe
its trash tho
rigid mango
but that's not gneeral m+ is it
crisp steppe
ur correct
glacial jasper
its useful on tyranical weeks
glacial jasper
especially with exang
rigid mango
exsang 
civic palm
Yes.
drifting cloud
yeah better stack haste for a pointless talent
so you can do 500 more dps on bosses
but 3k less overall
crisp steppe
maybe theres some dungeon out there were time does not matter and the only thing you cared about is boss dmg but I don't know what that dungeon is
when you push time is an issue
not the 500dps on the boss
drifting cloud
yeah but then you might aswell take 1 less eb
glacial jasper
i would hope you would be smart enough to spread dots with SS but i have no interest in this anymore
crisp steppe
ss is minor dmg in m+ trash
crisp steppe
yes
rigid mango
atleast garrote
crisp steppe
idk
rigid mango
haste is bad
bec on every pack
u get enough energy reg from bleeds
that haste is literally
worth 0
drifting cloud
clearly for bosses!
because haste having a value close to 0 like you say for 80% of the dungeon
outweighs where its like 1.3x better than other stats on st
oh wait, it doesnt
civic palm
That's why you have between 8 - 10% haste usually.
Because having none is fucking awful.
drifting cloud
you cant have none becaues of neck so yeah
rigid mango
I'm running 6.5%
crisp steppe
its hard to not have haste at all
rigid mango
Wish I had less
juist go as many OP traits
and 1 weap ench
to amke up for it
on bosses
civic palm
That sweet sweet 15 second window.
rigid mango
There's no reason to take any more haste outsideof that
I mean
why take a stat that's literally dead
every trash pull
with 3 targets
drifting cloud
pretty much, you just have dead stats equipped but it might be too hard of a concept for some people
crisp steppe
because my group sucks at bosses but are actually really good at the game when theyre doing trash 😃 the 500 dps is killing the bosses
crisp steppe
meming
drifting cloud
hes memeing im pretty sure
crisp steppe
this doesn't actually exist
civic palm
So bad it's better than everything else (other than Crit) even with 20% haste, grate.
rigid mango
wdym
rigid mango
yeah
it sims way too much on boss/low target fights
so haste isn't as bad as it actually is
civic palm
I am willing to bet that it's on average with how most people expect to play though.
Considering that's where the numbers for the APL came from, though that was pre-reaping, though that doesn't change muuuuch.
rigid mango
I mean
the fact that as soon as u get 5 bleeds out
haste is null
makes it so bad
civic palm
o _o
bleak spoke
4 with 11
bleak spoke
So st doesn’t feel strange
civic palm
_>
bleak spoke
What take crit mastery each
rigid mango
idk
Playing with this low haste does suck for ST
but It's so nice everywhere else
soi
drifting cloud
you can legit sim your aoe setup for st, then add some haste if you want
and youll see you gain way less dps than some people seem to think
civic palm
Yeah but the SIM does not/might not reflect your average pull.
Making it near useless.
civic palm
Just get more Crit.
crisp steppe
u gonna b ok
civic palm
No just more.
civic palm
Then go Vers. fuck Mastery
civic palm
Become padlord extreme.
crisp steppe
real
s in here
civic palm
Someone's gotta spin.
crisp steppe
ur a padder m8
rigid mango
until I seli was breaching it
crisp steppe
stop it
rigid mango
🤢
drifting cloud
dungeon slice for assa seems pretty inaccurate
rigid mango
idk 3 Eb actually feels so good
civic palm
IF I COULD MAKE THAT MORE WOOSHY I WOULD
drifting cloud
compared to outlaw atleast
rigid mango
woosh
rigid mango
I mean
civic palm
and that minor management requirement fucks things up royally.
drifting cloud
does it even do the full mongo fok only?
drifting cloud
or does it properly spend cps and stuff
crisp steppe
imagine casting finishers
crisp steppe
only thing I elaborately plan is my energy regen so I can spam more foks
civic palm
rigid mango
:/
crisp steppe
idk how many targets dungeon slice has
civic palm
fan fan fan fan fan
crisp steppe
maybe its actually playin proper
rigid mango
I mean lke
civic palm
It varies.
crisp steppe
idk 5 target im fokin
rigid mango
not press anything
civic palm
It spawns different sets and sizes of adds.
civic palm
I think the differences are so minor that they don't matter.
crisp steppe
env is aight if u want to equalize hps or need focus dmg
civic palm
But given that it still seem to value Haste very highly.
rigid mango
ye obv
ik that
I should just watch seli play more
ig
yeah
dungeonlice thinks haste is actually good
civic palm
It doesn't think.
rigid mango
but idk if it realise how many times it's worth -
civic palm
It knows that it is given the variables it works through.
civic palm
I do kinda wish we got a longer term large pull APL.
drifting cloud
yeah assa playstyle is so mongo that dungeon slice apl is probably way off
rigid mango
w no cd's
civic palm
The fact of the matter is...
drifting cloud
because outlaw plays pretty much the same on any number of targets
civic palm
get more Crit.
drifting cloud
so way easier to predict
civic palm
You probably don't have enough.
civic palm
Nah just fucking mongo to 120%
drifting cloud
15% of the time it works all the time
rigid mango
civic palm
1SS you fucking lunatic.
civic palm
Yeppers.
rigid mango
sucks
civic palm
"Sucks"
civic palm
oof
crisp steppe
Lol
rigid mango
It's too late for my head
civic palm
,<
bleak spoke
Imo if you play 3eb you mongo fok, if you play 2 you extend envenom in aoe and if you play one you extend ep with finishers
But in practice with 2 eb you rupture enough in between your ep uptimes probably like 70-80% on aoe anyway
rigid mango
Myeh fair, atm i just mongo fok so
lone junco
in AoE Env buff is irrelvant cause DP is such a shitter for damage and it applies anyway?
I didnt know EP in mongo cleave was something people worry about.
rigid mango
It isn't really, but I'm not sure. It might just be worth keeping ep up during mongo spam, just spreading ruptures if shit's gonna last
strange python
Should I gem for it
raiding spec
Meaning I have a set of gear for both including outlaw
I think I have too much for raiding?
That's why I'm curious what's a good number to hover near?
visual python
My rogue has around 20% crit/haste and 33% mast. I do just fine but im also less geared than you. But sim it?
slow finch
Question:
does garrote + poison give x energy bonus regen
IN ADDITION to
if you also have rupture + poision on give y energy bonus regen
meaning if you have both gar + rup + pooision you get = x + y bonus regen to energy?
Or is it the same bonus energy regen for ETIHER gar OR rup by it self?
visual python
Every time poison ticks as long as target is bleeding isnt it
sturdy python
Garrote and rupture give energy each time they tick when the target is poisoned
Both give energy at the same time
Internal bleeding also
slow finch
@sturdy python seperatly meaning there is ADDITIONAL benefit to having BOTH gar + rupt on same targ
sturdy python
Yes
Energy regeneration for each tick of garrote and energy regeneration for each tick of rupture
slow finch
ok ty vm! much appreciated
stable plinth
Anyone doing Uu'nut prog?
pearl widget
drifting cloud
he means mythic 😄
civic palm
If only.
drifting cloud
hopefully atleast
stable plinth
Yeah I meant Mythic lol
Was just gonna ask how much time you guys are investing into dotting up the guardians in last phase
strange python
trying to make sure i understand the gameplay properly; keep up dots, try and get off 3x envs during tb, dont cap cp/energy when possible, pool before tb?
flint jetty
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
worldly iron
pretty much. also pool a little before finishers to fit in 1-2 mutilates in the elaborate planning window @strange python
1-2 depending on if you crit or not
strange python
sweet good to know
fluid pagoda
I find assasination much more fulfilling then outlaw.
rotation is a lot more fun, outlaw feels silly in comparison
fringe parcel
is it a troll to use stormglide steps in m+?
meager nebula
Only during grievous weeks
fringe parcel
ok ty
torpid cradle
In reapings should i envenom or rapture
marble hemlock
depends on what your goal is
night vale
you wanna put about 4/5 bleeds out Garotte/ruptures
So then you have good energy regen
Then depending on traits you either just spam FOK or FOK>Env
marble hemlock
first prio is always to sustain energy throughout the pull. you can do that by either rupturing 4 targets, or garrote 3, rupture 1-2 targets
night vale
like Seli says, depends on your goal
marble hemlock
or by sniping low-hp targets that are about to die wiht a rupture to get a big energy refund
once your energy is taken care off, you wanna think about whats most helpful. if its pure aoe, then just overcap CP and keep spamming fok. if theres a big-hp lost or tormented soul in there, it makes sense to spam envenoms into that to shorten the overall pulltime
so its very dependant on the situation, and thats part of what makes assa so fun but also a bit more complex to play
since we can swap our priorities on the fly
and change gameplay accordingly
vestal wren
still wounder if mfd could be compatitive esp. in dungeons where you can snipe a lot of adds
marble hemlock
for assa? nah
finishers just dont deal enough damage
echoing blades is grossly overpowered
vestal wren
for assa/outlaw both have it simming quite compatitive in dungeon slice
marble hemlock
thats probably due to smaller packsizes and the bossfight as well
vestal wren
the main concern for me is, that the effort is just not worth it
marble hemlock
mfd doesnt do much in a 15mob reaping pull for example
vestal wren
bc. even tho you probably could win damage with it, you need a lot more effort for it
marble hemlock
20-30k envenom vs a fok that deals 100k per GCD
vestal wren
but the new season wont have reaping and the whole dungeon is not reaping 😉
marble hemlock
but thats a good thing imo, it allows for good scaling
this just isnt okay
a trait shouldnt be that good
and thats just the echo, gotta keep in mind that it also greatly increases fok basedamage
vestal wren
it just means ppl will jump to sin once outlaw changes come live
marble hemlock
so ~35% of my damage in that key were from 3 traits
vestal wren
bc. sin falls under the radar atm with the low amount of ppl playing it
marble hemlock
for sure.
i do think awareness is starting to spread a bit more again though
id just really like for them to combine EB/Scent
lusty narwhal
Everyone just opting for blightborne over 2nd NP now?
vestal wren
bb is a nice alternative
marble hemlock
Fan of Knives damage is increased by X. For each ruptured target it hits, it will fire a second spray of knives at that location, dealing Y damage to enemies within 8 yards.
this would be so much better imo :/
could nerf the damage to not be as broken as it currently is on large-scale aoe
while also giving you more consistency on 2-4target pulls
vast forum
Just cap it at 3 bonus sprays
vestal wren
i assume they will sooner or later nerf it
vestal wren
but blizz is not caring about balance a lot lately so they might not
marble hemlock
its still gonna be great, just because the fok-base damage increase is already pretty significant
latent tendon
How is rogue looking for the next raid tier?
rigid mango
Good
Depends on how essences shake out
but they look good, sin is a really safe bet for raid
latent tendon
That was my initial impression too.
From what I see in the journal there are a lot of cleave fights
latent tendon
True
How are essences looking atm? I don't think sin has much benefit from vision of Perfection which is the main game changer for a lot of specs
solid nova
!ess
prisma monolithBOT
First research 8.2 Sin Essence notes Thank you Tisumi: https://tinyurl.com/y6ouut2o
marble hemlock
<
latent tendon
Neat! Thanks
marble hemlock
vestal wren
!essences
prisma monolithBOT
First research 8.2 Sin Essence notes Thank you Tisumi: https://tinyurl.com/y6ouut2o
strange python
Hi guys is 1x SS enough for parsing in BoD? on the Champions, Jadefire, Opu, Conclave and Rastakan?
I have to reforge my DD and NP traits to get 2-3x SS
tropic ocean
Yes
simple meteor
is the new affix mini bosses cause if that's the case assa will be strong af next patch
tropic ocean
For opulence its not the ss that makes you parse
But what gem you can take
And aoe to adds
You can also just go full dd np on opulence and go ham when ruby stacks are high preferably with topaz up
For champions I got 99 with 2 dd 1 np 1 bbi 1 ss 1 ttk garrote 3 adds fok vanish garrote rupture garrote the boss vendetta and just ham
@strange python
strange python
thank u 😃
frail quiver
anyone got a cool macro for poison applying? cba having 2 keys bound for that
lament dove
I use this so I don't have to use more buttons:
/castsequence reset=10 crippling poison, deadly poison, wound poison
pastel canyon
Hello lads, learnt a lot here, but it was case u want to go 1 SS over a 3 NP + 3 DD setup ?
night vale
If we are just talking about raiding I like to play SS for multi target encounters and 3xDD 3xNP for predominantly single target fights like the last 3 in BoD
dark crag
/castsequence [nomod] crippling, deadly
/cast [mod:crtl] wound
/cast [mod:shift] leeching
strange python
@marble hemlock are you still using 2 SS, 2EB, & 2 twist the knife? How do you use this compared to using 3 EB
marble hemlock
currently running 3eb/2ttk/1ss
so basically full aoe
wanna outpad the outlaw padders
strange python
Yes 😱
rigid mango
Outpadding the padders feels awesome btw
marble hemlock
but yeah, its basically just regular energy-sustain on opener, and whenever thats safe i just spam the shit out of fok
strange python
What do you do with ttk I don’t know how to use it really well yet. Still trying to get the az pieces for it
marble hemlock
usually 3garrotes into 2 rupture, and then maintaining 4-5 ruptures once the garrotes ran out
its just whenever theres a prio target, instead of spamming fok i actually use the CP to funnel envenoms into that
strange python
Ohhh ok so not that much different
rigid mango
esp if you have tb and or vend too
marble hemlock
some pulls have mobs with higher hp where its worth, others are just same-ish hp so you can go ham on the fok-spam
yup
rigid mango
Take for example the packs in the 1st boss room in KR
The casters have more hp and are higher prio than the smaller dudes
so you just funnel env damage into them and they die ASAP
marble hemlock
but yeah, theres stuff like minibosses, or threatening casters that you might wanna get rid off first, so ramping up via 3garrote+2ruptures and then popping CDs on them makes the pull easier
strange python
Ok this is amazing. I was trying so hard last night to figure out how it would be different and over thought it
marble hemlock
basically gotta try to identify whats in the best interest of the group, maximizing dps, or singling out priority targets
strange python
I don’t have the pieces for your setup is it worth it to give up a EB for a ttk? That would give me only 2 eb but 3ss and one ttk. (Got the opulence crown)
marble hemlock
since that can change any moment, i.e. when a heal went through in underrot/temple, or when you accidentally pull something you werent supposed to, we can just change gameplay on the fly
id say if you wanna play around the envenom spam a bit more, youd want atleast 2ttk
it still works with 1 of course, but you're really going to start to feel the difference once you have 2 or 3
strange python
Ok I’ll hold on to it for now. This is great thank you so much I didn’t expect you to be on rn lol
marble hemlock
wdym, its 5:30pm 😄
strange python
I’ve always loved assin gameplay so much more consistent and control for a control freak like me. XD
marble hemlock
certainly more interesting that those filthy outlaws :X
strange python
Flavor of the month boys
Anyways thanks! I creep on you all the time. Appreciate the advise!
marble hemlock
no thanks necessary, although the stalking bit is a bit worrisome
strange python
😂
fading wigeon
@marble hemlock I have the option to run your build, but the dungeon slice is telling me to run 3 EB 3 SS. Is that just a how the sims are designed? I'm very intrigued by your build.
Here is my sim
marble hemlock
the dungeon slice sim includes a 2min bossfight, as well as some longer duration (30-40sec) fights with small pack-sizes (2-3targets)
fading wigeon
Ah gotcha
marble hemlock
the setup im running is heavily specialized for big aoe, so the sim results and my personal results are gonna be quite a bit different
3ss/3eb is a solid setup, i just prefer the prio-capabilities that TTK gives me
simple meteor
how you sim for stat weights for m plus? cause dungeon slice gives me haste ...
simple meteor
i see ty
marble hemlock
stack crit, go for mastery 2nd if you want more boss/prio damage, go for vers 2nd if you want more aoe
fading wigeon
@marble hemlock thanks for the detailed explanation.
simple meteor
i see thank you
marble hemlock
since stacking more ST traits or stats isnt going to give us thousands of DPS, its usually worth sacrificing a bit of singletarget to have much stronger and more consistent AoE
you lose maybe 1 or 2k dps by running 3EB and low-haste
fading wigeon
I was having a hard time keeping up with an arcane mage last night
marble hemlock
but gain way more than that on aoe
fading wigeon
I know I was doing something wrong
Just on aoe
Boss I was destroying him
Yeah it was indane
marble hemlock
havent played with an arcane mage in forever, so i cant really say how they deal their damage
marble hemlock
getting beaten on burst aoe is nothing to be sad about tho
we're the kings of sustained aoe
had a 2min trashpull in freehold the other day, was sitting at a comfy 130k dps after it was over while the others dropped down to ~60-70k sustained
supple compass
Does anyone think sin will pull ahead next season when reaping goes away?
Or at least pull up with ol
robust cloak
Hey guys when's the most optimal time to pop lurkers?
prisma carbon
with vendetta/vanish
robust cloak
I always popped plumage with vendetta for the overlapping burst window, am I better off casting lurkers 10 seconds prior to the vendetta window so that the mastery is peaking during vendetta?
prisma carbon
The mastery doesn't ramp up. Only thing that ramps is the damage you take.
robust cloak
Ignore me I'm fucking trash
stuck knoll
@supple compass as of right now assa is close to equal with outlaw so likelihood is that assa will be the best m+ spec again
lone junco
Maybe Ill finally get my 3rd EB before the end of expac
crisp steppe
just play a 405 piece?
lone junco
I could have 3Eb 2dd. lol
Its all wonk
prob not that bad. I did get something recently
distant lava
that's the full pepega setup
thin ingot
guys is crimson tempest worth taking?
crisp steppe
no , play poison bomb.
thin ingot
so, no?
crisp steppe
not worth
lone junco
@supple compass i dont like scent either but its still ok. better than my NP and DD options.
def my 4th choice
tropic ocean
@thin ingot answer isnt as simple it depends on what azerite traits you are using
visual quartz
Still find it weird so many ppl think Asn is sheet compared to OL, I consistently beat OL rogues all day, and im trash 😛
stuck knoll
It's just dumb community perception
visual quartz
MDI ruining ppl perception I guess
stuck knoll
Something's good in a niche "MUST BE OUTLAW FOR +11 KR"
In reality outlaw is strong but sin is close too
quartz depot
3 targets with 1 dd, should i fok or muti?
spice surge
muti
quartz depot
ty
turbid zealot
is there a crown cancel aura macro for unnat
stuck knoll
You mean the relic?
ruby oxide
I'm going to be trying assassin for the first time in a LONG time in M+. I managed to roll 3xEB and SS, but I'm a little at a loss where to prioritize stats. If anyone has a chance to offer some insight on https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ppJF1p2zGHT2HSBD5YStTy
turbid zealot
ye the relic
ruby oxide
Gear is mish-moshed from my M+ outlaw and raid set, but I'm open to any commentary
rigid mango
@ruby oxide Generally any haste is bad
GCB included
If you can, drop any haste for crit + mastery
charred crag
quick question for you guys, im trying to use an addon to get used to the rotation. im using MaxDPS, for some reason its telling me to use Tricks in my rotation. Is that just during pooling energy periods or is there some benefit to using it
vestal wren
use herorotation
charred crag
mmk ill give it a shot, thanks
supple compass
is ct still the play in m+
crisp steppe
No. Play poison bomb
marble hemlock
3eb 2ttk 1ss
supple compass
ty, and why isnt ct good anymore
crisp steppe
because eb is stupid
supple compass
do they have negative synergy?
crisp steppe
its just that a fan of knives cast will be doing as much if not more than a crimson tempest cast would
supple compass
how long does it take for eb to refresh though, isnt it only for the first 5 crits
supple compass
oh but it can happen every cast
crisp steppe
yes
supple compass
i misinterpreted it
crisp steppe
your goal in AoE will be to get enough energy regen to sustain spamming fan of knives
5 bleeds should be enough
u open with 3x garrote -> rupture to kickstar ur energy regen. fan of knives for to get cp for another bleed. after that you want to use ruptures for bleeds. garrotes cost more energy, last shorter than rupture
ur goal is still to spam fan of knives. only apply as many bleeds as u require for energy
charred crag
@vestal wren HeroRotation is great, thanks for the recommendation
noble tinsel
@crisp steppe thanks that’s helpful. FoK spam at 5 bleeds, even with only one EB trait?
crisp steppe
its going to depend on the amount of targets that ur fighting. unsure on how many targets spamming FoK will be worth with only 1 EB
stable pine
@marble hemlock im I missing something that I always find ttsk to be so underwhelming...?
marble hemlock
idk
what did you expect? 😄
i can see how you expected more than you got, but its certainly impactful in your opener as well as for prio on AoE
since the difference between 2ttk envenoms and 0ttk envenoms, even without TB/Vendetta up, is ~15-20k damage per envenom
and in the opener in particular, its quite noticeable
civic palm
Yeah all of a sudden they are creeping closer and closer to 100k > _>
marble hemlock
with everything up, you go from ~60-65k envenoms to 100k with just 2 TTK
rigid mango
when mongo fok'ing, do you focus at all on ep uptime seli?
marble hemlock
nope
rigid mango
hm
civic palm
You're GCD locked > _>
marble hemlock
i try to space out rupture re-applications
lone junco
:nod:
marble hemlock
so i get decent EP uptime while sustaining properly
rigid mango
aight then I'm doing it correctly
marble hemlock
but once a pack is closer to dying, i literally just spam fok 10times and snipe low-hp mobs instead of maintaining multiple ruptures
very degenerate gameplay
young socket
you put out a 5 cp rupture on a low hp target before the next pack for energy regen?
rigid mango
Well ye, it's the EB way
marble hemlock
ye
last mob i usually rupture before it dies to make sure i start with capped energy on next pull
civic palm
Yeah hard to Garrote Garrote Garrote with no NRG.
marble hemlock
nothing worse than having to start a pull with 120energy
last parrot
hey boys do you stack SS for m+, or you just take one?
civic palm
SS + EB works in general
last parrot
dont know if 2 SS or 1 SS 1 Double Dose
marble hemlock
depends on how dungeons usually play out for you
rigid mango
never DD
last parrot
thats my choice ^1^
marble hemlock
for higher keys, ss loses a bit of value
in lower keys or when the tank in general pulls small and lets you restealth regularly, SS is very good
civic palm
Ye
young socket
would you always take 1 SS for the cp gen
marble hemlock
ye
rigid mango
in m+, yes
last parrot
yeah but the helmet is better (new azerite stuff vs old) so gotta take it..choice is SS or DD .. shoulders I have only SS 😄
rigid mango
not for raids tho
marble hemlock
was thinking about dropping it entirely, but didnt get to try it out so far
rigid mango
it's decent for cleave fights in raids
You gonna go MA or what seli
fok spam deluxe
crisp steppe
ma gonna hurt ur fok spam
marble hemlock
even with 0SS
crisp steppe
yeah
marble hemlock
the 3G opener just facilitates a much faster ramp
rigid mango
but but, 80+% crit fok spam
marble hemlock
🤷
marble hemlock
those 3 GCDs dont matter in a pull that has 20 more foks
crisp steppe
feel free to try it out and report ur findings 😃
last parrot
would you take treacherois cov or a 2nd nothing personal? :p
rigid mango
I'd never drop sub for ss
marble hemlock
and opening with triple fok in MA will make you starve
well, it might
depends on your cp gen post-MA
tropic ocean
and I want to be a billionaire
tropic ocean
😄
marble hemlock
i prefer the utility vanish with triple silence
supple compass
on 2 target with 3b, do you mut or fok
rigid mango
fok
supple compass
3 eb*
rigid mango
with eb u fok at 2+
rigid mango
fok fok fok
supple compass
oh ok ty
marble hemlock
fok has higher damage/energy in itself, but muti has higher cp/energy
so if you wanna prio with ttk traits, getting the higher cp gen is usually worth
i usually muti first, and then follow with a fok if im at 3cp, or 2nd muti if im at 2
that way i always get the 4+ finishers, but play a bit more energy efficient with the fok at 3
ruby oxide
@rigid mango Thanks for the input. I have some crit/verse gear from my outlaw set, is there a base minimum haste? I know outlaw feels PRETTY bad below 10% haste.
rigid mango
Assa feels pretty bad with low haste too
but only on ST
When you get 5 bleeds out in multi target fights, you have enough energy reg that haste doesn't matter
Some people stick with a bare minimum of around 10%, I'm opting into chunking it all and taking 1 weap ench + as many OP traits as possible to make up the haste during ST
ruby oxide
I'll swap the 410 GCB for 410 harlans, swap quick nav to deadly?
ruby oxide
Yeah, run them on my outlaw set. I had GCB on there just cause I was building off a base of my assassin raid set.
I miss assassin in M+, kind of play outlaw out of meta-slave necessity. And it does have some ridiculous output. But I'd like to return to the reliable steadiness ass has to offer
rigid mango
yeah well tbh just going 3 eb and spamming fok is so braindead
but it's very rewarding, dmg wise
visual quartz
puh keys for a couple days with 3EB 3SS, my hand was turning into a claw mashing FoK so much
crisp steppe
ur supposed to make sound effects urself for every FoK too @visual quartz
visual quartz
thats why I always have push-to-talk on
visual quartz
Yeah ran with my OL buddy in a group, the tank was making fun/asking me why I was asn...3 pulls in he was pretty quiet
harsh sphinx
"WHY SIN!?!"
eager haven
Had a mage tell me I sucked for playing sin in an “outlaw meta”. Had a good chuckle
rigid mango
tbh eulus seemed to 
when he saw I was sin
civic palm
WHY SIN?!?!
fokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfokfok
O _O
also Iron Wire is very underrated by people still.
meager nebula
it really goes to show how uninformed a majority of players are
rigid mango
spice surge
Hes a sinner
lethal heart
@gusty kestrel because https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444184252373008394/580080636799483926/unknown.png
lethal heart
1
civic palm
lol
lethal heart
at the end of mchimba
cobalt gyro
how'd you pull that one
marble hemlock
seb would still be sitting ontop of thorns without my help 😦
lethal heart
when your monk
presses fists of fury
when boss casts soul thorn
instead of holding rsk for that
what can you do
no counterplay
its kings rest
civic palm
lol
lethal heart
rofl
lethal heart
im monk main
marble hemlock
tisu, eleem, seb and me in one raid
lethal heart
cobalt gyro
what level was that kr
cobalt gyro
we just missed a 21 but idk how high we could've done it
marble hemlock
although you lose like 2k dps just on the blob pull if you dont go gigaham on that one
cobalt gyro
not sure how else to pull it
lethal heart
can go 40k
if we played lik it was supposed to paly
but
since its live key
you play safe
marble hemlock
i dont remember the last time i had a clean KR
lethal heart
we played fucking
marble hemlock
its always fiesta at some point
lethal heart
1 berserker
at a time
because we had galaxy time
if we could replay that
it was 24 in time
without playing 1 berserker at a time
but i had god tier rng
that wont ever happen again
cobalt gyro
like idk what other pulls we could do
marble hemlock
dont think you can really do that tho
lethal heart
you can
cobalt gyro
2x double pull 1st boss? idk
marble hemlock
sure, but its so much more risk
lethal heart
23 you can do in
39:30/40 minutes
24 pr obably in 42 +/- 20 seconds
but yea super hard
and so many rng layers
room after 1st boss is huge rng already
then 3rd boss
zul is rng a bit aswell tbh
cobalt gyro
in terms of?
lethal heart
just tank living on the edge literally xd
and getting weird aoe/soak thing when he runs away
can cuck you quite a bit
idk is that baited on players actually
or just around players or near boss
idk actually
marble hemlock
around players
afaik
in any case, you can have it spawn in a way that everyone only takes damage from it once
or multiple times, at which point youre screwed
marble hemlock
wouldnt have died if i was there 😦
marble hemlock
but youre not playing with me anymore
lethal heart
lethal heart
and then soak circle spawned after the add spawning debuff
marble hemlock
but i get to play tomorrow ❤
not sure what other dps is joining tho, only know zmok/naowh/me are gonna play ❤
so 6-7hrs of assassination goodness
lethal heart
Ill be there 
ruby oxide
With 3xEB, what's the breakpoint of number of targets to Fan vs. Mutilate?
rigid mango
2
well
if u need cp's u use muti
if u want dmg u use fok at 2
like seli explained earlier, he goes muti and then uses another muti/fok depending on how many cp's
if only 2 cp from muti, muti again, if you got 3 cp, you fok
if u got 4, you use a finisher
noble tinsel
Shower thought- we’re assassination rogues, so aren’t we all ‘fans of knives’?
FoK FoK FoK
I’ll show myself out
rose sky
what race would be best for sin rogue PvE both raiding and m+
rigid mango
What faction are you intending on playing?
rose sky
alliance
rigid mango
Nelf is probably the best bet
Nelf/Di dwarf
nvm
I was wrong
that being said, this isn't including nelf with SS traits, so
rigid mango
The difference is so menial it truly doesn't matter enough, just pick w/ever you want
tbh
or go velf for the ability
and lose entire 12 dps
rose sky
well went human and was gonna do arenas and then arena partner quit a week into season
and human is pretty basic and boring
rose sky
ok ty
nimble karma
anyone been having problems with lurkers gift trinket being too much damage for healers to handle
re: stormwall prog mostly
rigid mango
It really shouldn't be that big of an issue
it only does damage in the low 10k's at the end
if you have issue with damage, only have it up during vend
and use a cancel macro after
nimble karma
thats a good idea
drifting cloud
stormwall p1? I can see it being annoying there astleast
nimble karma
yes p1
nimble karma
i'll look into a cancel macro
drifting cloud
but yeah youre not really doing much dmg in the last 8s of it, so canceling it isnt really much of a dps loss
nimble karma
thx lads
fading wigeon
What's the proper way to pool energy? And does it make a difference in DPS?
rigid mango
you stop using abilities
You want to utilise windows of damage
TB as the best example
You pool energy so at the button press of tb, you can go as ham as possible
and get as many env's in the window as possible
fading wigeon
Gotcha. Thank you so much.
rigid mango
If you do it a good amount of times, you'll notice
strange python
is exsang still viable? if so, when
uncut maple
I haven't really played in a while, should I just delete this huge stockpile of 340-355 gear that's in my inventory? lol
strange python
yes
uncut maple
or salvage or w/e
strange python
id use it for ilvls to get 370s from wqs
uncut maple
yea, so just equip my highest possible ilvl stuff and then salvage/vendor the rest?
strange python
correct
esp at low gs, ilvl > all
once ur higher u can worry about simming for stats ect
uncut maple
yea
exactly, that's what i figured
and are professions important these days?
like, they used to give you added stat bonuses if you had the profession yourself
strange python
i personally use alch/ench on my main and gathers on my alts
i had lw/skin on my rogue till i got 415 boots/legs from raids, then switched to skin/herby
alch is always solid on mains and alts though just because of bonuses from pots/flasks
proud wren
How hard is assasination?
Working toward gear and everything right now to use it in pvp
civic palm
Not.
thorny shore
u spam fok with envenom (fok+env,fok+env...) or only fok? on high aoe
strange python
are you asking a question?
bleak spoke
Depends on your traits
tall basalt
if i get an azerite piece thats a higher ilvl than my current piece but doesn't have the talents i want, should i upgrade or stay with what i have
civic palm
It might be an upgrade, you can use something like this to check and be sure of it;
tall basalt
kk thanks
midnight flower
I do on sin on outlaw no
If you have spyglass sim that with lurkers and compare it with your lurkers/dice combo
bleak spoke
Lurkers is strong enough that even on really hard healing weeks and dungeons with lots of random damage it’s usually worth
vast forum
My healer just uses a void stone on me at ~20 stacks
glacial jasper
Those new trinkets in raid look sooooo juicy
Dps spikes are crazy now wait till you got that agility trinket window with the execute trinket
uncut maple
is there a list of the top trinkets for sin? I just got that Idol of Indiscriminate Consumption from Crucible and it looks lolworthy
marble hemlock
thats not really a dps trinket, every spec in the game can get it
https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
might have some answers for you though 😃
uncut maple
yea, meh, wasted a roll on it too, oh well
the +agi alone might be better than my 355 Construct Overcharger though, will have to sim I guess
cobalt gyro
depends on the item level of the idol
coral sparrow
Hey guys, can someone tell me if the boot at cruisible of Storm are viable in raid. It seems to be overrated on sim
tropic ocean
yes they are
maybe not as good on jaina but decent on others and raelly good on conclave/champion
coral sparrow
yh on jaina it's sure.. I've calculate and it seems to take 5sec around to stack at 10 (4-6s on 10try)
limber dew
quick question, been gone since Uldir, are quick and deadly navigation still the best enchants?
or is there a stronger version now?
charred lantern
how can i sim m+?
worldly iron
there are no upgraded version of those enchants yet, no
rigid mango
It values haste more than it should because it sims quite a fair bit of low target fights + boss fights
etc etc
charred lantern
do i go 2xTtK 2xSS and 2xEB?
rigid mango
or?