thanks =3
#assassination
tropic ocean
Depends on your group and goal
rigid mango
go for 1 more eb
you want more prio dmg? go for 1 more ttk
if you want more 3 target cleave dmg (esp if you're a nelf) get another ss
tropic ocean
3ss 3 eb is fine too if you want to just blast so pick your goal
cinder shuttle
Tell you the truth I never use SS. Seen a lot of Assa rogues use it too.
tropic ocean
You NEED to use ss in m+
tropic ocean
Its one if not the top tier trait
tropic ocean
On every trash pack you can put out 3 buffed garrotes and have full cp for the first rupture
cinder shuttle
Yeah, I run 2EP, 1 NP, 2 DD and Tidal Unlucky Azza roles
tropic ocean
Those traits are bad for m+
rigid mango
DD NP and Tidal all need to go
rigid mango
Like
cinder shuttle
really? Wow
tropic ocean
Ss is just super good for m+/3target+
rigid mango
^
cobalt gyro
And DD entirely means you never want to fok
tropic ocean
Super dmg and fast cp generation to set up fok
rigid mango
dd means you want to fok at 5+ targets
cobalt gyro
So it'll be way worse in cleave
cinder shuttle
Yer I know that part, DD mainly for the singles but gear wise im really unlucky xD
tropic ocean
What options are in your gear
Sim yourself (6 boss 40 sec patchwerk) but i guess if you replace a dd np 415 with even 385 ss youll highly increase ur dps
cinder shuttle
I can get an extra 2 SS and drop DD and Tidal
tropic ocean
I mean in the dd np piece what options you have
cinder shuttle
^
cinder shuttle
Think ill explain myself better cos im crap at it, thanks for your patience Ausg, So here goes
head - EB and SS
Chest - EB picked or NP 1st ring, Incite and DD 2nd ring
shoulders - SS and NP (Also Blightborne infusion)
tropic ocean
Use blightborne+ ss
And for chest u need to sim but i guess incite will outperform dd in m+
cinder shuttle
yeah defo, having something weak as a pose to a skill never hardly used will give dps +
Thanks!
tropic ocean
Gl mate
slender abyss
hey guys , how i can get old combo points like this ? any addons
old knot
/run SetCVar("comboPointLocation",1)
/reload
if you want to make a macro
slender abyss
hm thanks so much 😉
visual quartz
Classic with combo points on target shudder
forest acorn
hi, quick question from a returning sin player - if tb is coming up soon but rupture wont be in pandemic until the middle of the tb window, should I refresh rupture early or use rupture during tb, or wait til after tb?
meager nebula
refresh before tb
forest acorn
ok, thank you!
strange python
What do guys think about Versatility for Assa
i wouldnt stack for me, but it feels different if I dont have any on me
for example: 33%mastery 8%vers feels more powerful to me than 39% mastery 2% Vers
cobalt pelican
but why
rigid mango
But isn't iot way harder to gain 6% vers than mast?
Thought they were dynamic in the increase % wise per stat
strange python
I think you should sim yourself
k
sure u can always sim yourself, but sometimes it determines the feeling somehow
if i have to go after sim, it suggest to put everything in Haste/Mastery, but checking some other Assassination Rogues, they prefer Crit instead of Haste more. So i just wanted to know your own opinion instead of going 100% for sims only
crisp steppe
@strange python maybe they play m+ assa too where crit is king
rigid mango
@strange python What are your traits for m+?
strange python
Sorry i shouldve made it clear that i am talking about BoD mythic 😄
i play outlaw only in M+
rigid mango
oh
Yeah sure, raiding then
What traits you running in that case
generally crit and haste are the best, but after a while it'll end up mastery being better than haste
Sorta depends on what fight you're doing etc
rigid mango
That's fine
Generally, crit haste will be the best in the beginning
But mastery si really good and afte ra while, is the best
strange python
whats your opinion on Versatility?
I feel like its doesnt have high priority but like a certain value should be reached like maybe 5%-8%?
i feel like 2-3% feels so weak
rigid mango
You shouldn't focus
strange python
i mean its still 5% overall dmg
rigid mango
Vers
It's aight
But it's not worth focusing on at all
the other stats give you more
eager haven
In raids I run with literally zero versatility, except from lustrous golden plumage and it feels great honestly. It’s not a priority
strange python
ok ^^
so about stat priority
it feels like the more u Multidot with Rupture and Garrote + SS Trait the better mastery is
Mastery feels so weak in ST
crisp steppe
just follow the sims m8 u gonna be aight
strange python
what are your stats atm? Mine are: 28% crit 16%haste 39% mastery 2% Vers
rigid mango
Generally
You just go crit haste
And when sims tell you mastery, mastery is better
Haste is worse if you can get more than 2 bleeds up
perma
strange python
Do u mind telling me your Stat Spread on your characters?
spice surge
Stats doesnt matter nearly as much as you think
Especially for assa where every stat is good
languid ore
spice surge
As long as you're not only stacking vers and literally nothing else you're probably fine
And even then, for ST you're just gonna be simming and having fairly exact comparisons between items anyway, so your stats dont matter much
rigid mango
Honestly
It's as simple as just going with w/ever sims say
Everything works, nothing is bad
strange python
correct me if i am wrong i have those weird vibes that as Assa i need to run different sets of Traits on different types of encounters, do I?
strange python
is there 1set of traits that is capable of worth playing 9/9?
spice surge
Technically yes, because the fights where you'd want other traits dont matter
rigid mango
first 6 anre diff to last 3
strange python
to sum it up, id say mastery is less worth it on ST encounters like Mekka
spice surge
no
cobalt pelican
what makes you say that
spice surge
Why do you think mastery is bad for ST? Whenever you have good ST traits (dd/np) mastery is the best stat
cobalt pelican
like, do you have any basis on it?
strange python
so in my head it looks like: Cleave Add encounters go 2-3 SS with mastery and multidot
ST go something like TTK and BBI and go more on crit
spice surge
No
spice surge
For fights where you can meaningfully use vanish-garrotes on more than one target ss is good (grong, jadefire, rasta)
Otherwise you just want NP and DD (with as much overwhelming power as possible)
cobalt pelican
as much as sim yourself is a largely unhelpful response for something as straightforward as flat damage increase vs flat damage increase single target, it will be 100% correct
eager haven
When you have 3 stacks of DD, and you have high mastery your double dose crits are going to be huge.
strange python
anyone of you having close to 38-40% mastery?
or is that too much and i should drop some for more crit/haste, yes i know i should sim yourself, but i am checking some high logs assass they barely have 40% mastery
eager haven
Yes I have like 42%
strange python
ok thanks
spice surge
Exact % values do not matter
eager haven
This is why you need to sim
spice surge
In anyway shape or form
eager haven
Care to explain that exactly? Like are you referring that it’s meaningless to compare since everyone is different?
spice surge
Because having a 425 vers+crit legs is better than having 410 haste+mastery legs
So even though haste+mastery is technically better and would give you "better stats", its not gonna be more damage
cobalt pelican
stats interact differently dependant on traits/even minor stuff like racials anyway
humans are too idiot for math
eager haven
Yeah generally a huge ilvl increase like that is better but I don’t think that’s what he was asking
spice surge
Well thats why exact stat percentages are useless to look at, because people dont choose which gear they titanforge
strange python
i really try to minmax for 95-99% logs, i think its important to ask for opinions of other players instead of only simming everything
simming is just 1 source, having different opinions from 5 different players are other sources as well
spice surge
Playing well matters far more than having 20 mastery instead of 20 vers
strange python
touché
cobalt pelican
the actual value of single points of stats isn't something that you really discuss with other people
like mathematical models will always be better at that
cooldown timings, trait choices, playstyle whatever sure
strange python
i think the right composition of traits matters a lot in dps
whether like eleem said 20mastery or 20vers dont matter much
if i run 3ss vs dd traits on mekka for example, i would say it would matter a lot
eager haven
Well yeah because you’re going to hit a lot more double dose procs than having empowered garrotes up
In pure st, DD wins
frigid sleet
implying you have a good uptime on the boss aka not getting targetd by every mechanics
strange python
asking about pure ST encouters, would you go: 3DD 3NP or would you recommend something else like "maybe" TTK, BBI, 3x DD, 1x Np? if cant afford BBI 1x TTK, 2x NP, 3x DD? or 2x DD 3x NP
civic palm
w/e SIMS best for you given the pieces might be different item levels.
light kestrel
So is MA opener still G > M > R>
hardy mulch
if u have 4+ cp yes
thick narwhal
wut bout subterfuge opener?
civic palm
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
scenic saffron
who is the highest simming rogue and how much is he simming does anyone know ?
civic palm
Check wowprog or something, think they care about that.
Can check item level/all-star points on WCL
harsh sphinx
someone with a huge lurkers
scenic saffron
yeah saw someone simming 29.1 with a 425 lurker
nimble tartan
did they fix stepping over both beams or am i big tart
nimble tartan
nvm it works it feels like sometimes it randomly gives me 1 stackie
hollow stone
Just the tip
strange python
Hi is the 3x SS or 1-2 Setup for parsing needed in BoD? or is better 3x DD and 3x NP?
vast forum
For parsing, use 3xSS for 1st 3 bosses and rastakhan
strange python
@vast forum is also possible to parse with only 1-2 SS?
strange python
i dont want to be #1 or on the first site 😄
vast forum
99% kinda requires some cheese on those fights tho
strange python
i can reforge my gear ofc but every time for parsing to do that i think its better to get 3 other pieces 😄
vast forum
I don't recommend reforging to parse
I personally have 2 completely separate sets of azerite for 3xSS and 3xDD
strange python
i was in break so i dont have so much sets i have 1: outlaw m+ 2: 3x DD with 3x NP
visual quartz
probably shouldnt worry about parsing then
tropic ocean
on first boss i just garrote the 3 adds + fok go to bosd vanish garrote vendetta pump and got 99%
Not sure you need 3 ss i used 1x ss
And with outlaw its pretty easy to parse first boss just tell tank to tank adds with boss
i just switch out helmet i have dd np stormwall helm and for multitarget i use ss np champion helm
@strange python
real bay
not doing farm clears feelsbadman, no cheese parsing 
tropic ocean
I got 95% grong just playing the encounter normally
real bay
yeah for 99 you mostly need
tropic ocean
My guildmate yesterday did rank 1 log in cos 😂
real bay
managed top10 on cabal, maximum buff cheese but some premature dispels occurred
tropic ocean
On uunat
How to get rank 1 uunat: everyone in your raid ignores adds cuz rl calls it
Heroic leap into adds
Bladestorm
Done
tropic ocean
Its just crazy how easy it is to parse on some classes
real bay
- get warbreaker traits 2. get bladestorm traits 3 cheese
tropic ocean
Cuz barely any conpetition
I need to work on my jaina log rekilled and still only green ><
Time to use ss and subter
earnest bridge
Hey guys ;)
I play assassination rogue for about two months and I really like it and I really try to improve myself
I would want to know : what makes the difference between an average assassination rogue (that I am) and a really good one ? Is there some tips, some subtle distinction in the gameplay, etc ?
Thanks for the answers and sorry for my english
tropic ocean
Playing mechanics good
Pooling properly
Make good decisions to maximize uptime whilr not hurting raid
And most important: simming himself
earnest bridge
Hmm, I'm afraid that pooling is not something I do :/ I should try to do it but it feels strange to me to just ... do nothing and just let my energy recovers ^^
worldly iron
you generally want to fit two mutilates into every elaborate planning window
for some nice damage increase
tropic ocean
It will improve your dps if you do it properly
tropic ocean
If you pool properly you can put 3 envenom into tb which is great
earnest bridge
I'm playing with 3 Nothing Personal, 2 Double Dose and 1 Shrouded Suffocation ^^
worldly iron
then you'll really want to utilize EP windows
earnest bridge
and i'm afraid that I use TB like an idiot... on cd ^^' without trying to maximize it
tropic ocean
On cd is pretty much the go to
You need to prepare
So you have refreshed dots, high energy and at least 4cp when it comes off cd
So when it comes off cd with proper preparation tb env mut mut env mut mut env
Sometimes only 1 mut when lucky with crits
worldly iron
and if you have TB running, it's better to refresh dots if they're about to fall off than to squeeze in another envenom
usually you can prevent that from happening with proper planning
but it's bound to happen sometimes
earnest bridge
ok ok ok, I understand... Well ! I'll try all that ! Thanks a lot for the answers guys, it's really nice ;)
worldly iron
anytime
shy axle
Lets say, you got ~ 15 mobs to fight, or even 20. Setup 2TK/2EB/2SS - would you, after putting up 4 bleeds for energie-sustain, just spamm FoK due to the EB trait (lets say * 10 globals only fok) or do some Rup/Env into after ~4 to secure the 15% EP dmg is up? whats more effective? 1x more Fok with Eb or the 15% buff to your dmg?
lament dove
I don't have the math, but in my experience it's better to spam FoK, probably due to EB procs
and you can hunt low HP mobs with rupture to get energy bumps
rigid mango
at 5+ targets
with 2/3 eb
You're normally better off just spamming fok
if you don't need the prio dmg from env
vast forum
There are rarely that many mobs without a priotarget tho
rigid mango
Reaping?
vast forum
Reaping normally has a lost soul
vast forum
It's not about scary or not scary
vast forum
It's more dps efficient to prio the high hp one
Than to spam aoe, then when small mobs are dead end up single targeting a big one for 20 sec
rigid mango
Idk, prio dmg is ncie for sure nad I love it
but fok spoam
is just so much more dmg
vast forum
Fok spam might net you more personal dmg
But group dps will be higher if the high hp dies at the same time as the resy
vast forum
Or you can pull it into the next pack, that also works
But if you just have a pack of mobs that you want to kill before pulling the next grp, priotargeting the high hp one is deffo worth time-wise
rigid mango
I do agree
but since I've seen seli playing 3 eb instead of low eb count like he did before
and tried it myself
It's just really good
shy axle
you playin 3Eb/3SS atm?
shy axle
ok
shy axle
ye I´d imagine
i like 3 EB/3SS but sure it may be good to invest in those ttk, so I go the compromise-way
rigid mango
dont like 0 ttk
That build just feels like your boss dmg etc is just so weak
I'm a big fan of ttk, and with this build you still use ttk at lower target
but 5+ your 3eb take over
worldly iron
I've been going 2 EB/TTK/SS for a while now, so it's still nice
I just wish I could do that other build
rigid mango
It's super good
but having a bit more choice is so nice
I normally run 3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss or 3 eb 2ttk 1 ss
or 2 ttk 2 ss 1 bbi 1 eb
worldly iron
yeah of course, I'm still happy with these pieces
shy axle
would love to try the bbi one, still gambling for those shoulders tough
worldly iron
I bought gorak last reset, finally had enough residuum
worldly iron
I had enough of sanguine shoulders
3 of them 
gambled for a chest recently since I'm sick and tired of grongpelt, got a decent upgrade for ST with NP and TTK
rigid mango
^
rigid mango
think I'm at like exactly 27k
but I've not raided for like a month
yet to even get a chance at lurkers
worldly iron
jaina prog 
rigid mango
Yeah I mean, I did that
worldly iron
39.9% best attempt so far
worldly iron
shy axle
@worldly iron jinxed it, just got the sanguines as well 
shy axle
well, maybe it is some toher classes bis 😄
worldly iron
let me rephrase it, why does it suck so bad for every rogue spec
unkempt wedge
3xDD 1xTC 1xNP 1xBBI, at what target amount do I swap out DDs+MA for SSs+Subterfuge?
Progressing M Blockade, and contemplating whether to go a couple SS traits or to just use my warlock
worldly iron
ST should be fine for stormwall unless you really need more add damage
we had range dealing with that and sometimes the melee helped out if it got too close
which wasn't a problem for us
vast forum
You don't go ss for later bosses in bod
unkempt wedge
Kk thanks
vast forum
You should, however, run ss for restless cabal
worldly iron
I mean, if it sims higher 
vast forum
Ss is always gonna be better than dd on 2 targets
Or just run both if you have the option
worldly iron
tbf I just had some scuffed traits in the beginning where ss was still pretty much viable for ST in my case
unkempt wedge
You’ll take that triple DD and like it
worldly iron
I do like that though, for ST
but I want giga setups for like, rasty
or other cheese fights
unkempt wedge
It’s good yes but it does nothing for gameplay
worldly iron
that's true
worldly iron
yeah I really enjoyed SS with the extra combo points and stuff
and super impactful multidotting
juicy garrotes are cool
strange python
Sometimes I dont have time to garrote empowered 3 times on 2 targets, feels bad man
dark crag
Is your rank the patreon one or what is it?
worldly iron
oh, yeah
strange python
@dark crag idk really coz I do: garrote>rupture>garrote>garrote. One of the last 2 garrote on 2nd target
strange python
@worldly iron how I can solve it? With the dash on one mob?
dark crag
Thats why it is dangerous
dark crag
He said he doesn't get 3 g at 2 targets
tropic ocean
ofc u dont get 3 when u put a rupture in between
tropic ocean
3
tropic ocean
4 if u have low dps
worldly iron
you just do g g g, no?
dark crag
Every 2 min
low junco
dude
dark crag
Yes
tropic ocean
then u will probably use 3
tropic ocean
cuz u dps stop on boat
low junco
really weird
tropic ocean
and cant get 2nd vendettain
strange python
I use Rupture to upgrade the next Garrote empowered to 24sec
low junco
and 4 healing aswell
tropic ocean
@strange python dont
low junco
top1 horde guild on speed
dark crag
What?
low junco
top3 world
solid nova
@strange python You're trying to use 4 gcds where you can only get 3
Thats why
You cant get all 4 of those into subt
dark crag
Empower rupture with garrote?
tropic ocean
so hold vendetta until after intermission
and then again on p3
or wall and wait the full 60s cast but no point if u kill that fast
low junco
i use vendetta / cos trinket on pull
p2 and p3
p2 like
super early
before popping first barrel
solid nova
And rupture doesnt upgrade your garrote, idk what you mean by that
low junco
:D
tropic ocean
if I get avalanche after opener
i just tell my raid to move cuz ill standon bos
boss*
low junco
dude
early jaina progression i got tilted by avalanches 2 many times
1st and 3rd time
when i popped my 2 min cds
both times
tropic ocean
i only got tilted by ranges that walk like clowns so u try to run to portal and already everythign is bombed
low junco
++
low junco
tbh
i am probably the biggest clown in the guild when it comes to wipes
i actually wiped the raid once cuz shadowstepped on last 3 avalanches
dark crag
I got no avalanches this week as assa, switched to sub, get them nonstop and we kill it that try
low junco
there are actually sub logs but on some random reclears
dark crag
Sub or start fight with 1:20 vend cd
low junco
people doing it for 100 logs
dark crag
Timings are much better as sub, when you just force through the phases
tropic ocean
mh?
drowsy meteor
I'm new to assasination rouge and new to WoW in general. I've watched a couple videos and have a basic knowledge but also wondering the rotations you guys might use on trash mobs? Raids? Etc.
worldly iron
pretty broad question
dark crag
The priority is to keep bleeds up, pool energy for ep/env/tb windows
drowsy meteor
Just looking to get a idea and thank you @dark crag
dark crag
Learn the opener from guides like wowhead
strange python
I have not explained well. I don't use 4 gcds, I use 3. The rotation in 2 mobs I do is:
garrote (12sec) -> rupture -> garrote on the same mob (now it's 24sec) -> garrote with the other mob (12sec)
This is wrong? I read above to do 3 continue garrotes, that way we would be losing 1 combo point and ... would we have an empowered 24sec garrote on one mob?
smoky glen
I started playing assa coz of req of raids, watched dratnos guides
feels like u need to remember 5-10 different rotations for any situation
worldly iron
garrote enemy 1 > garrote enemy 2 > garrote enemy 1
strange python
I writed: garrote, ruptura, garrote, garrote
dark crag
You do 3 garrotes back to back, one mob has 24 sec the other 18, but both are empowered
strange python
I have to do this?
g 1st mob
g 2nd mob
g 1st mob
r 1st mob
But we would be losing 1 combo point, right?
strange python
You do that rotation fast to not lose subterfuge?
solid nova
You're locked to GCD time
tropic ocean
why do you garrote mob 1 garrote mob 2 garrote mob 1
and not garrote garrote 1 and then garrote 2
o.O?
strange python
Yes, I know, that was I said... sometimes happened to me
tropic ocean
i usually just gg on my main target then g on other target
dark crag
G 1 g2 g1 gives 1 second longer g on mob 1
tropic ocean
cuz i dont wanna target switch 2x inside subter
strange python
How does it work then to increase the time of Garrote empowered? I thought it was because of Rupture
dark crag
Rupture has nothing to do with garrote
strange python
Would it be better to put 3 g empowered on 3 mobs or put 2 g empowered on 1 mob and 1 g empowered on 2nd mob? For example in the case of Grong + robots
dark crag
3
tropic ocean
When you refresh Rupture before it expires, the duration that was left is added to the new Rupture DoT, up to a maximum of 30% of the original duration
same with garrote
thats why you can garrote 1 mob 2x with subterfuge to increase its duration
strange python
I made 21k dps (of 22.7k sim of raidbots) in mythical Grong doing it wrong ... lol
tropic ocean
in grong you will hold vanish for adds
vanish > garrote grong > step garrote add 1, garrote add 2
violet yew
Did you just say "garrote 1"
tropic ocean
or if you are not confident you can also just
vanish garrote add 1 garrote add 2 garrote add 1
its less dps than 3 garrote with shadowtep, obviously
strange python
I will use step, since in these cases I used Sprint. And I'll need sprint it in case Grong target me
Every day you learn something
tropic ocean
u just wait until the adds spawned and u see where they are then u can vanish garrote grong step to add and garrote both
its a little tight time-wise but you'll get the hang once you done it a few times
strange python
@tropic ocean Yes, that rotation I've been doing these last weeks. Focusing only adds but I will change it
When they are close to Grong I will do one rotation and when they are away I will do the other
Need to practice
tropic ocean
Good luck
vast forum
what you wanna do is garrote 1, garrote 2, garrote 3, rupture 4, vendetta...
paper bough
Is the garrote spam spec I used to play overshadowed by outlaw in m+ now? When I quit assa was great with the garrote Azerite trait. Is that still a thing?
dark crag
You mix ss eb and ttk now
pale saffron
Question about opener and rotation. So if you vanish and redot immediately after your empowered garrote falls off, that would fall outside the vendetta window right? And since they're both on a 2m CD it would desynch them. Do you just hold your next vanish and keep popping vendetta on CD to realign them?
pale saffron
That's what I thought I should do initially, but I also make poor choices for CD's. Thanks!
worldly iron
no worries!
woven summit
Hello. Any announced spec changes for assassination as far as 8.2 is concerned?
vestal wren
no
woven summit
And how hard do you think it will be to gather the bis essences for your spec?
vestal wren
depends on the lvl, if you want them in the cosmetic rank you probably need to farm a lot
bronze topaz
is there a chest with np, dd and op?
cobalt pelican
n o
bronze topaz
thanks
cobalt pelican
closest thing is mekka has dd np unstable, atal chest has dd np elewhirl
spring iron
Are we developing thoughts on essences for 8.2 yet? Is there a priority list yet?
spice surge
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
First research 8.2 Sin Essence notes Thank you Tisumi: https://tinyurl.com/y6ouut2o
north star
what is the safe opener for MA?
onyx rock
torpid cradle
is orc good race for assa rogue?
dark crag
Race doesn't matter
shy axle
if you have to ask, just play what appeals to you the most from a "looks"-standpoint. You can`t do anything wrong, dps-differences are tiny
rose sky
Wait vanish on toxic blade and not an envenom?
rose sky
How big of a difference in dps?
lone junco
average is higher with the one listed.
Crit Luck on the other one depends on Crit
if you like to FEEEL super edgy do the tb vanish env mut mut(env)
if you like to play conservatively well do the vanish tb mut env.
rose sky
Oh ty
strange python
if i have 1 dagger 410, 1 dagger 405, 1 sword 425 what I should pick for mh and oh?
stuck knoll
Highest ilvl dagger mh and you can't equip swords as sin
strange python
sorry, i want to say fist weapon not sword
strange python
Thanks
limber dagger
Can someone recommend me a good assa weakaura?
flint jetty
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
cold meteor
Why not Mut TB Vanish Env Mut Env ?
pallid solar
Is sin viable with 15 keys? Don't plan on doing anything really higher as I don't have a group and pug most dungeons
pallid solar
Awesome, glad because I hate playing outlaw
balmy cradle
Do you run crimson tempest in +10 and higher keys? Read the ravenholdt guide and it said how to use ist but as a multi target build recommend poison bomb anyway
hollow vine
Can anyone help me with azerite traits for M+? i currently have 2x SS - 2xEB - BBI - TTK
But when i sim it tells me to lose TTK and EB for SS and SOB..
so its telling me that more SS is better than more EB
dark crag
The sims don't have reaping in
dark crag
Dungeone slice is more like a few trash + boss fights
spice surge
I wouldnt say dungeonslice is very accurate as assa
dark crag
For more prio dmg you need more but your setup is ok for all kind of keys
Do you run world first keys?
You have a good setup, keep it and have fun
balmy cradle
Do you use ct or pb in m+?
spice surge
pb generally
You could use CT if you play it really well and you're pulling big, but its a lot harder to play and basicly does the same overall, so not really worth
balmy cradle
Thank you :)
thick narwhal
PB is th eonly single target option, true? but CT is a controllable ability
crisp steppe
ct won't massively increase your aoe dmg even on things like reaping
you just end up spamming fan of knives on AoE which will be the majority of ur dmg
if you cast CT as your first gcd its going to take longer untill you have enough regen for spamming fan of knives. if you cast it as a later gcd its also more likely to lose value
in the case you do want to focus something ST pb will be a lot better. can be quite often
night vale
im running 2 twist the knife for m+ now... do i just spam Fok in AOE? at which point do i envenom?
crisp steppe
depends on number of echoing blades traits you run
night vale
im running 3
crisp steppe
I'd suspect 5-6 targets with decent crit
so once you have your energy regen set up you can choose to spam FoK for overall dmg but it will often be worth it to single target some mobs
because of higher health etc
strange python
is running 3eb/ss still a meme? or are people starting to take ttk more often?
marble hemlock
its still around, and serves its purpose well
marble hemlock
well, depends on what key/affix/grp comp we're talking about ^^
but its very solid
strange python
right, of course.
strange python
looks like ill be running 3eb 2ss 1ttk
we'll see how that works out for me for the time being
marble hemlock
nah
gonna stick with 3EB
for pad
until assa reclaims its rightful spot as a t1 m+ spec
marble hemlock
no
strange python
It sucks?
rigid mango
Yeah I mean sure
civic palm
It also means you're not Envenoming.
hot urchin
General basic question, to play sin optimally I know pooling energy is required, do we want to pool to around 70% before mutilating, envenom and toxic blade? Obviously mutilate to keep from energy capping too
strange python
i usually just try and tb around 85ish, that way i can get 2-3 envs in that tb window
like, mut to 4, pool, tb, env mut mut env mut mut env
hot urchin
I see some video guide saying to pool to around 70 before envenom, I sure why
Unsure*
I know you don’t wanna spam mut for obvious reasons
strange python
yeah that makes sense as to why
you just wanna make sure to fit as many envs in that tb window
however you do that without capping energy/cp
hot urchin
So I guess only worry about pooling for TB and the rest just to keep you from capping energy to keep it simple
rigid mango
You want to pool to keep env up as much as possible for raiding
since the more env is up
strange python
you pool as much as possible
rigid mango
the more chance you have DD to proc each muti
strange python
^
hot urchin
Is that the row 15 talent
strange python
yup
rigid mango
EP is yeah
hot urchin
Gotcha that makes sense now
rigid mango
DD is ur best ST trait, pretty much
for m+ you don't really care about env
since you're not running DD
strange python
^
rigid mango
but EP is nice
You don't need to focus on it
but it's decently good, and gives you a possible dps increase but it'll mostly be minimal since you normally have quite high uptime on it naturally anyways
hot urchin
Yeah I was gonna make a tracker for the buff but that’s probably over doing it, I’m 395 and I compete with people 15 ilvls higher so I’m doing things right I suppose
Or maybe they just suck
rigid mango
Probably a bit of both tbh
Generally, there are a lot more things to focus on before those pooling things
Using TB correctly accounts to way more dmg than pooling env/ep stuff
etc
hot urchin
And all that is is pooling and getting at least 2 env in the window
rigid mango
Yeah, pretty much
hot urchin
Which I always do, close to 3
rigid mango
Yeah, the thing is just that you want to press it on cd each time
but at the same time
don't want to be re-applying bleeds during the window
etc
hot urchin
Damn that’s pro
rigid mango
like
hot urchin
I don’t sit on it for more than 2-3 s
hot urchin
Yeah adds up
hot urchin
👍🏻
rigid mango
It's quite nice
I prefer it to outlaw for sure
Feels like you have more versatility with the class
hot urchin
I like it over outlaw too
hot urchin
Kinda fun spreading bleeds
formal pasture
overall dps is pretty much on par with outlaw
baring i pug with losers and i get all the reaping for myself on outlaw
hot urchin
And for tyran weeks you’re useful
rigid mango
I mean
It's got higher dps ceiling
than outlaw does
outlaw is just so good because of the utlity it brings
formal pasture
thing is with outlaw is you are not really "speccing" for aoe and still do disgusting deeps
rigid mango
having so many stuns
having vanish as a utlity cd
having gouge
shit like that
is worth so much
formal pasture
ive been casually enjoying 8.1 since i quit back on release and most classes feels like Legion-Lite still
how did they manage to fuck this game up so hard
rigid mango
yeah that's pretty much it
strange python
i figured
rigid mango
when you look at the % dps increase
strange python
its not much tbh
rigid mango
not a big diff
strange python
but pb is overall better; sim wise
formal pasture
hb can be fun on reaping but that requires u to save the FoK
civic palm
unless you have 3xEB and HB becomes competitive. PBomb is just a very safe bet.
rigid mango
hb would've done less
strange python
ye i'm running 3eb atm
formal pasture
u kinda have to play around HB
strange python
but im playing pb
formal pasture
for it to be better than pb
strange python
makes sense
rigid mango
Yah, but even when running 3 eb and doing high keys with majority eb/fok dmg
formal pasture
if ur pugging pb most likely is better
lost horizon
PB forces you to use finishers, HB lets you spam FoK
lost horizon
they're both usable
formal pasture
with HB u have to not use FoK to have the real funs
lost horizon
yeah once in a while
formal pasture
if ur spamming FoK do u even get anything out of HB ?
strange python
not rly
rigid mango
minor dps
formal pasture
it stacks every 2 secs
strange python
rather get fat pb procs tbh
lost horizon
PB is just yikes when you gotta kite
civic palm
The wonders of it being a tiny duration.
crisp steppe
u can mess around with hb if u like it. for most keys its not likely to matter
rigid mango
but
crisp steppe
some ppl like big numbers
rigid mango
more dmg?
bleak spoke
HB has more thoroughput than pb on aoe
rigid mango
but pb has more dmg overall
marble hemlock
yes
bleak spoke
It’s just not useful damage
civic palm
PB is more consistent across ALL dungeons combined, sure. But HB has a niche and that is PADDING.
bleak spoke
Yeah that
civic palm
Which is pointless.
marble hemlock
it is still less overall
civic palm
👍
marble hemlock
than PB
rigid mango
Padding 
crisp steppe
it aint padding if it has to die 🤔
bleak spoke
Is it really seli?
crisp steppe
my motto
marble hemlock
assuming HB increases our FoK damage output by 15%, which is very generous
we go from 16.2% FoK damage to 18.6%
but lose 4.7% PB in return
crisp steppe
hb is gonna pull ahead with those slow tanks where u get =40 stack on every pack 🤔
marble hemlock
and HB increases FoK overall by less than 15%, more like 12%
civic palm
Which is about average PBomb damage.
marble hemlock
how is 2.4% about the same as 4.7% miz?
bleak spoke
Or maybe mobs aren’t too grouped for me
civic palm
huh?
marble hemlock
"which is about average PB damage" what was that referring to?
civic palm
Yessir.
civic palm
PB is kinda whack sometimes, for sure.
marble hemlock
so wed have to assume an actual 20% damage increase to fok from HB to actually measure up to PB in the overall department
and that is still disregarding the fact that HB extra-damage on the beginning of a pull is mostly pad that doesnt help in any way whatsoever to kill packs faster
crisp steppe
its not always gonna be useless but PB definitely seem a lot better considering you have it for bosses
just more useful damage
marble hemlock
PB is more overall, and its more efficient due to having value on bosses
civic palm
You can still FoK @ near max stacks for a decent GCD on ST, but PBOMB is better.
rigid mango
Seems like in a lot fo situations it deals straight up more
and it's nearly always useful dmg
compared to hb, so 🤷
civic palm
The thing with PBOMB is that it's never BAD.
marble hemlock
that single max-stack FoK isnt gonna make the difference on a pull where you fok 25 times anyway
bleak spoke
Yeh hb is wack on st
marble hemlock
with how often we cast fok in any given dungeon, its best to look at HB as a flat %dmg increase to FoK
which usually comes out at 12-13%
(that is, 12-13% damage increase over the course of a dungeon to your fok basedamage)
civic palm
It's a linear scale anyway, so you're not getting more damage in some places and less in others; even if you did you have to talk about averages and not just the spikey bits.
marble hemlock
ye exactly
the 4 or 5 times you get highstack fok openers arent pushing the average much higher
simply due to them being just 4 ot 5 instances of extra-damage compared to ~200-400 regular fok casts that are either 0stack or 1stack FoKs
unless there are some more% multipliers involved somehow that make HB scale differently, its just not worth playing
strange python
god damn on the leveling phase assa rogue are very bad in aoe <,<
marble hemlock
im just sad i didnt get to live the 50k dream in freehold earlier due to a wipe 😦
cobalt gyro
so i'm kinda embarrased about my jaina log but it's hard to look through and see what i couldve done better - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4TktAJHFBzQPa6cv#fight=22&type=damage-done&source=21 log with myself selected, is there anything big sticking out here that i should work on?
prisma carbon
Are the crit boots from crucible good on mythic blockade?
lost horizon
you can't just compare using that meter though @marble hemlock cause HB let's you not worry about using finishers
i agree though that PB is better overall
but i think your comparison undervalues HB
like you use for EP uptime that's it
so you end up with far more FoKs
marble hemlock
seeing how the only finishers i use this week on aoe are ruptures that i need for sustain
prisma carbon
do the stacks drop if i have to take an orb @rigid mango ?
marble hemlock
or envenoms that i need for prio
the gameplay would not change at all if i swapped talents?
marble hemlock
its not like we suddenly use more finishers on purpose just to proc more pbombs, the talent is inconsequential to our rotation
lost horizon
if you're already just spamming that's fine, but i think in that situation HB can still pull ahead in some instances
lost horizon
if you end up with downtime the impact from a high stack can be pretty nice
marble hemlock
not really, no
lost horizon
though looking at it if that meter is just spamming FoK and finishing for EP that's fine
crisp steppe
@cobalt gyro last phase u can check ur sequencing of pot/trinket and MA seems a bit odd
marble hemlock
if im casting 500foks in a dungeon, half of which are boosted by 1stack, with like 10 of them being 5stack or higher
the average still doesnt come out massively higher just because i got a few 20stacks in there
whether i start a 40sec trashpull that has me casting fok 25times starts with a 20stack fok or a 0stack fok
lost horizon
the impact from each is weighted by target count too though
marble hemlock
is a dps difference of less than 5%
lost horizon
i get what you mean though i had an incorrect assumption at first
marble hemlock
well yeah, obviously the math isnt as black and white as i described
which is why i gave HB a generous 15% average increase to fok
even though its much lower in reality
and even by being that generous, it still doesnt match PB value except in a few ultra-trash heavy dungeons like freehold
lost horizon
it's tough to properly evaluate but i honestly think i agree with you after looking at it
i was thinking about for something like ML
marble hemlock
the problem right now is that we completely ignore everything and just spam fok
and only ever finish to sustain energy
like
lost horizon
the only thing that's nice is you don't have to worry as much about grouping with HB
crisp steppe
@cobalt gyro didnt really bother looking through entire log. damage is good considering how u do the fight
crisp steppe
yeah not a good look for sure
marble hemlock
@lost horizon well, we dont play or worry about anythign when playing PB or HB, its basically just a passive that we dont play around in any major way
you could argue that PB would be better if mobs are more stacked/not kited
rigid mango
Press X to doubt
lost horizon
i mean if i'm gonna hit a target w/env i'm gonna go for one in a bigger pack
rigid mango
X
lost horizon
but you're right it's just kinda there
spice surge
@marble hemlock Imagine if they go through with the pvp talent stuff and you can pick the fok talent 🤔
marble hemlock
the only good option, CT
is unplayable
doubt thatll ever see the light of day
10sub rogues
spice surge
Same
lost horizon
what was your suggestion for EB?
lost horizon
oo
marble hemlock
i.e. when casting fok
lost horizon
interesting
marble hemlock
get 1 echo on each target that has a rupture on it
lost horizon
still wouldn't be able to take CT though LOL
marble hemlock
yeah 😦
but itd make echo less reliant on crit
more consistent on small scale aoe
lost horizon
true that'd be nice
marble hemlock
and thered be some interesting theorycrafting in terms of when to fok instead of multirupturing based on the amount of mobs
lost horizon
more multidotting which is what we should be anyway
marble hemlock
i.e. something like 10mobs = 6ruptures, then overcap, 15mobs = 5ruptures then overcap etc.
would be kinda cool
marble hemlock
😄
marble hemlock
yeah
spice surge
FOk
rigid mango
FOKKKKKKKKKKKK
spice surge
What a fokker
rigid mango
I'd love to see ur fok dmg after that
cobalt gyro
"outlaw blasts, please nerf"
harsh sphinx
is that in motherload
cobalt gyro
he said FH
marble hemlock
its the one in the picture i posted earlier
lost horizon
my best ML https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/491121263344091136/561362980403675136/unknown.png
was using HB though
harsh sphinx
o sry, beast
marble hemlock
POG
harsh sphinx
😮
lost horizon
and ML is pad city
cobalt gyro
haven't done the BIG pulls to get 50k overall
lost horizon
it was only on +20 so wasn't like crazy high but
marble hemlock
we had a full wipe tho, and a monkaS pull where we accidentally pulled triple-pack in FH with BL
lost horizon
was my best ML at the time
marble hemlock
and i was sitting at like 130k dps after a 2min fight 😄
its just degenerate gameplay
i hope they nerf EB or just remove it alltogether
and buff up scent of blood a bit to replace echo on aoe
crisp steppe
I wouldn't expect them to nerf EB and give compensation for it
marble hemlock
scent+CT was very cool
lost horizon
the problem is CT is still weird
crisp steppe
I can see them nerfing EB
marble hemlock
i ran 2sob/1ss in s1 and it was giga
crisp steppe
idk we'll have to see
marble hemlock
but echo just replaced it, its slightly more aoe for much less effort
crisp steppe
assa was good s1 without EB too
rigid mango
wasn't SS way better in S1 tho?
cobalt gyro
early s1 SS was crazy
marble hemlock
not on sustained aoe
crisp steppe
early on yeah
cobalt gyro
but after the nerfs ya scent got better
marble hemlock
scent was sutained aoe king, but obviously you rarely had situations where you could really utilize the big aoe dps after a fairly long ramp
torpid cradle
is heticadd cleave reliable?