But in general yes hold first vendetta to line up with vanish
#assassination
sturdy python
tiny finch
will test now, please standby
indeed
boosted the DMG a lot
and the cds
thanks my man!
im saving energy on like 5 seconds on toxic blade to try and put 2 envenons on its Buff
sturdy python
Tb on cd is also preferred. Holding it 5s every time means even over less than a 3 min fight you lose a cast
Of course actual fights have mechanics and things to consider but just in general it’s better to have bleeds up and hit the button immediately
Or as close as reasonable
tiny finch
i see
this was another situation
at 3rd burst
should i hold the TB or just do it on Cd
civic palm
You wanna wait over 50% of the CD of an ability to use it? > _>
civic palm
I am know for my sass.
tiny finch
hahah :P
civic palm
Don't hold it unless you are going to miss the majority of the uptime.
tiny finch
thanks my man!
ive been bursting wrong all this time
2nd bursting at least, wich cucks the whole timers on the fight
nimble tartan
civic palm
No but I've some sharp boots.
civic palm
ye
sonic iris
does the tooltip not update damage increases from talents? in and out of stealth garrote is showing the same damage
flint star
Is CT even worth taking on Fortified week?
sand gust
yo assassination is used for raiding also in pvp right outlaw is just for mythic plus or naw
pulsar goblet
sand gust
kk
bronze kelp
assa is also very good in m+
@flint star CT has no value on boss fights, on trash sure, but its only pad dmg, does nothing for prio target or something else. and on giga pulls (which you maybe dont have this week) you are just spamming FoK. so i would not recommend to take it. Poison Bomb would be a better alternative
golden flicker
tiny finch
how good is galecalers boom for ass?
compared to a dice
playstyle i mean
im still simming
compared to a plume****
sorry!
solid nova
Both good but Gale use will need to be better thought out as you'll restrict your movement with the on use
tiny finch
plume is basically 10% more dmg on every vendetta
solid nova
If they sim close id take plume just for the sake of ease
tiny finch
Thanks my man!
Golden Plumage
Gallecaller's
i believe thats because of my statweights atm
sand basin
Going to raid in a bit
just want to make sure my memory is right
from stealth, garotte then toxic blade, Rupture and then vendetta and just mutilate/envenom spam (at 4 or 5 CP) refreshing garotte when it runs out the first time
and then at pandemic after
pandemic rupture preferably at 5
cp
sand basin
3XDD, 1xTTK, 1XSS 1xNP
EP,sub,vigor, toxic blade and poision bomb
poision boms seems a little weak imo
bomb*
but the alternatives don't seem great either
solid nova
Don't think theres any combination of traits or talents where you'd open garrote - TB
sand basin
I'll check opener again, I was just going to TB for combo points since it has a cd and mutilate doesn't
solid nova
You'd end up scuffing your envenoms during the tb window using it that early
Generic opener is in
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
solid nova
But for fight specifics, WCL is useful as well
sand basin
WCL?
stable oxide
Do you have subterfuge?
stable oxide
with SS and subterfuge I do Garote > Rupture > Garote > Vendetta > Toxic Blade > Envenom
solid nova
Garrote > Rupture > Garrote
sand basin
Sweet, got opener sorted now
With energy/combo points just a quick one, do we want to overlap envenoms?
stable oxide
Garrote > Rupture > Garrote > Vendetta > Toxic Blade > Envenom > Mutilate (till 4cp+) > Envenom > Mutilate (till 4cp+) > Rupture > Mutilate > (pool energy) > Vanish > Garrote > Envenom > Garrote > Toxic blade > Envenom > Mutilate (till 4cp+) > Envenom > Mutilate > (till 4cp+) > Envenom :P
Is what I do most of the times
sand basin
Like build to 4/5 then wait for energy to pool and envenom then quickly build back up and cast it just before the last one times out?
real bay
don't cap energy, is far worse than overlapping env buff
stable oxide
I would only pool energy for toxic blade
sand basin
Yep but I mean letting energy get to like 100 instead of hovering it at like 50
real bay
yes that's good
stable oxide
I mean
Keep in mind eleborate plannign
You preferably want to do your next envenom in your eleborate planning window
but you won't have enough energy regen for that
cobalt gyro
ehhh, EP isn't really super worth to try to maintain outside of tb windows
sand basin
So I want to try and have 3-4 CP, then TB and envenom?
or rupture if it's in pandemic
stable oxide
So that you can preferably get 3 eleborate planning buffed envenoms withing your toxic blade timer
sand basin
also with double dose and NP should i be taking EP or MP?
I heard EP was generally better but with triple DD it seems like MP might be better
stable oxide
EP
real bay
EP always
sand basin
kk
What about TB vs exsang?
exsang seems harder to use so I was avoiding it but if it will work out better I could try
sand basin
Double passive trinkets
stable oxide
Big oof
sand basin
I've got claw and dice
sand basin
Could drop one for a dread glad medalion
stable oxide
depends on the ilvl though
sand basin
405 on dice and claw 400 on DGM
stable oxide
and your glad medalion?
rigid mango
Just sim it
stable oxide
cause I would perhaps switch out claw for medalion
claw is not that good for assassination
sand basin
yep
stable oxide
Yeah then go medallion
sand basin
Bind it to vendetta
rigid mango
Yep
sand basin
with a macro
stable oxide
Yes
rigid mango
And it's super good, just extra dps during ur vend windows
Sims don't calculate optimal usage
stable oxide
Thats why its better to look at warcraftlogs
rigid mango
Just like sims think you'll always stand in every full usage of GCB even though that's really not realistic
stable oxide
thats actual proof on what people use on specific bosses
rigid mango
Every rogue will run
Dice/spyglass + plumage/medallion/lurkers
Maybe some exceptions
Like a couple GCB's or smth, but those are the truly safe bets
stable oxide
I woudn't go for GCB personally
rigid mango
Neither would I, it's defo good but lurk/on use vers is better
I've just got the luck that i got a ttf'd socketed gcb and nothing of the others, so I'm using it 
stable oxide
oof :P
stable oxide
I got a 410 Dice with socket and a 400 Plumage
rigid mango
I've got like 50+ runs of fh now
stable oxide
thats cute
rigid mango
Yet to see anything better than 400 blank one drop
For me
Mind you I stopped activly grinding a month or so ago
stable oxide
I did 150 FH befor I got my 410 Dice :P
I lost all my hair though
but I got my 410 dice
rigid mango
That's some 
shit
stable oxide
and then I see a few alts in my guild get a 420+ with sockets in their first +10 run :')
But overall I can't complain about my gear :P
distant lava
150 FH are you kidding me
don't tell me i have to do as many boralus for a good spyglass
stable oxide
I wouldn't go for spyglass
Personally
But I did not do that shit for king's rest xD
I wanna keep my plumage xD
and I tried a few King's rests after I got my 410 plumage
and I was like.... nope.... not gonna do that shit
FH is ez free loot
distant lava
yeah but i'm a yatzee pirate not a dirty sin boi 
stable oxide
🤢
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/twisting-nether/Syllidon can't complain about my gear though
416 ilvl and 8 sockets is nice xD
Got another rogue in my guild who is 419 ilvl though 🤔
real bay
ilvl doesn't tell a lot these days tbh , just get sockets and lurkers
big wep
like my 420 socketed TD dagger 
stable oxide
I wish I had 420 daggers :<
Not sure if a 415 with socket mainhand is better than a 420 without socket mainhand
spice surge
Mainhand is all ilvl
stable oxide
Cause when you have a 420 mainhand dagger with versatility
vs a 415 dagger with crit/haste/mastery with a socket
I think it will be a very close call
cloud sandal
heavy skiff
shy axle
still a little bit torn regarding the playstyle. I am trying to "part" in in "cycles", eg. Use Env as often as possible to clip Env. If it is no longer possible i pool ~ 100e+ (and for TB) and start again until i can no longer support it. How are you guys doing it? Just waiting until 100e for every finisher? or same as me?
ripe kelp
Hey, according to sims my 400 harlan + 425 lurker is better than 425 galecaller +425 lurker should i trust sims with this one actually?
spice surge
Using a trinket puts other on-use trinkets on a 20s cd
So you cant have both up for your cooldowns, which means using two of them is nearly asways awful
ripe kelp
well it's possible to overlap them for 10s
spice surge
Its not worth
distant lava
but not with vendetta
ripe kelp
ok, tnx for help
faint onyx
I'm a rogue nananananananana
GARROTE, mutilate, mutilate, rupture, mutilate, mutilate envenom > repeat
vast forum
At least you aren't a demonhunter
real bay
at least not a w a r l o c k
vast forum
If instead of that pic you showed a full list of 100% logs, i'd consider your statement valid
sand gust
hey is spyrmasters chest good for assas
415
wondering if i spent 1700 for a good reason
solid nova
Depends what you replaced
Top gear will be definitive for you
Can compare the two chests
sand gust
kk
hollow edge
Hi pps,new to the channel.Today was a weird day.I got Boon 425 with a socket on my DH,and hunter traded me Lurker from Unnat.XD.Was wondering,since theres alot to scroll,any tips on Lurker usage apart from beeing sensible with inc dmg from bosses?
solid nova
Probably a good idea to have a macro with cancel aura in it so you can turn it off if need be
One sec, I've seen one before that'll be of use
/cancelaura Insidious Gift
/use Lurker's Insidious Gift```awesome,thanks m89
solid nova
Just make sure you don't double click it and insta turn it off 😄
stable oxide
whats the cooldown on lurker?
solid nova
2mins irrc
rigid mango
2 min?
stable oxide
Don't you want to put /use Vendetta in the macro aswell then :P?
solid nova
Can add it in as an extra line sure
hollow edge
great,works perfectlly
sand gust
@spice surge you there hi
sand gust
hey does any one push decent keys like 15 in assass spec or do the majority go outlaw to push 15 and higher any one know
sand gust
ok i didnt know thank you richard
sand gust
ok
im guna watch him i was wondering if they can aoe good i know boss will die fast with assassination spec but i was worried about aoe thats all
solid nova
AoE is solid as well
Seli is a good choice for M+ content
Chill stream, good content
sand gust
kk going on him now ty richard
rigid mango
Fucking gold
marble hemlock
solid nova
F
marble hemlock
ye
rigid mango
ur rly just tryna prove tha point huh
marble hemlock
ye
rigid mango
Just gather up screnshots
marble hemlock
most people know at this point that assa has higher dps potential
and outlaw has better disrupts
rigid mango
sin -> outlaw remember?
ye imean
Since I swapped over to sin again for m+
I've never felt liek I missed gouge so much
in my life
It's such an insanly good ability
marble hemlock
looking at the numbers, HB does not look worth at all tho
4.5% PB damage, 17.2% FoK damage
would be ~2-2.5% increase overall to FoK with HB
rigid mango
but 3 eb?
marble hemlock
but losing the PB damage
so would be an overall loss
since HB is, at most, a ~12-13% increase to FoK damage
in terms of overall damage increases
marble hemlock
boring as fuck
hope they dumpster EB and bring scent back as our aoe trait
should just combine echo and scent
and make echo happen on every target with rupture
and less reliant on crits
marble hemlock
would also make it better in small-scale aoe
rigid mango
if sob get sbuffed
marble hemlock
idk
was just an idea i was having a few months ago to make echo more interesting
and not just "ramp your energy sustain, then spam fok 10 gcds in a row"
spice surge
The fact that fok does more damage than any of your finishers
Is just silly
Crismon tempest should be doing more damage than a fok :/ It does if you count the full dot, but only barrely
sand gust
hey @spice surge can u help me again
spice surge
Hello, with what?
spice surge
Just do it in small batches, you dont need to sim every different enchant on the rings
rigid mango
What other traits were you runnign @marble hemlock ?
marble hemlock
3eb 2ttk 1ss
rigid mango
think I fall 1 ttk short
marble hemlock
doubt it matters unless its for prio
on the big aoe dungeons im sitting at like 9-11% envenom overall
so if you ahve SS instead, youre not gonna see a difference on bosses anyway
marble hemlock
yeah
rigid mango
Just need to find the motivation to actually do keys ig
marble hemlock
idk, im starting to lose hope to find a good grp
im pretty much only subbing for people who are working or w/e but once theyre home, im out
rigid mango
same but I'm 1k under u
marble hemlock
at the end of the day, if they still prefer to not bring me, thats cause my performance wasnt good enough to justify bringing me for the rough keys over someone else
so once i hit the point where i feel that theres nothing more i can do to perform even better
theres really no point to keep trying
rigid mango
yeah I mean I'm struggeling to find people to do keys with
since Idk where to look tbh
people just come and go, a lot of the peeps I did keys w stopped playing
Havn't actually increased my score in like a month or smth
even higher score seems even more saturated of plaers so
marble hemlock
for rogues? yeah
i mean, in the top200 players, including tanks/heals, theres ~50 rogues
flint star
Dungeon slice sim keeps telling me that Haste is my best stat... I don't really understand why.
marble hemlock
when youre just taking dps, you got ~40 rogues in the top100 dps spots
because dungeonslice sim has low-mobcount fights with 2-3 targets as well as a 2min boss fight
which leads to a higher haste value for the entire slice
rigid mango
hm so it's not even worth while trying to get there huh
I mean
Do you think double rogue'll still be decent come 8.2?
marble hemlock
sure
if the rogues are good
so out of those 50 rogues, maybe 10 will remain
@solar rose this beautiful flower for example
marble hemlock
idk
rigid mango
I'd love to atelast try it, but it's just so bad to pug
and honestly, no fucking clue if I'm even nearly good enough
🤷
tribal marlin
I'm testing lucid dream essence right now for assa
Blood + Lucid give pretty nice results (around 30k unbuff in 5 mn)
solid nova
!ess
prisma monolithBOT
First research 8.2 Sin Essence notes Thank you Tisumi: https://tinyurl.com/y6ouut2o
shy axle
How are you pooling during a fight? Atm i am trying to chain EP until it is not sustainable anymore. Then pool and repeat - or are you pooling to ~ 100e before doing any finisher nevertheless
onyx rock
After Envenom i pool to ca. 100 Energy so both multilate are insinde the Envenom Buff.
lone junco
try hardest
sand gust
any one know if sometimes blood mallet isnt correct your top gear sims go with that instead?
lone junco
blood mallet has fixed traits talents.
use herodamage for rogue stuff.
and use Raidbots for Your stuff.
sand gust
kk
short jacinth
Best daggers out of mythic + where to find them?
shy axle
TD
short jacinth
Ty
buoyant coyote
any good theorycrafter for 8.2 for rogue
shy axle
I´d say there will be quite a few %changes due to the essence influende between classes
so lets wait and see
tribal marlin
essence are being tested actually but its not yet implemented in simc so all we have are only dummies tests.
!ess
prisma monolithBOT
First research 8.2 Sin Essence notes Thank you Tisumi: https://tinyurl.com/y6ouut2o
tribal marlin
And some of theim need hard tuning
shrewd night
bleak spoke
Shiennar is typing...
strange python
Can you dodge both beams on Uu'nat with shadowstep?
sturdy python
If you have something to step to in a spot no beam is going yes
solar rose
People are getting https://www.wowhead.com/item=89223/racing-flag to shadowstep... Reliable way to avoid beam damage
cobalt gyro
will have to go pick one up
vestal wren
subtlety has 2 shadowsteps and a vanish teleportation 😉
arctic ledge
when you guys are in m+ what does your opener on a trash pack look like
3x garrote into ruptures?
cobalt gyro
g > g > g > (ct if talented) r
vestal wren
i think tanking decides if you are able to step over both beams, if noone is in the "save zone" you wont be able to
polar cape
That flag tips is pretty sick thx
rose sky
On mekka would it be better to run 3x DD 2x NP and 1x TC or 1xSS?
solar rose
if I had to guess 1tc, but you should honestly sim it
strange python
fml im not revered with cloud serpent
cobalt gyro
revered is pretty quick
solar rose
if you have timewalking badges, I went from no rep to revered very fast, I think the tokens are bind on account so you can send them to your rogue
cobalt gyro
i pretty much went all the way to exalted from tokens
strange python
Don't you need mop timewalking to be up?
arctic ledge
do you guys ever kidney shot in dungeons?
tropic ocean
yes
whenever something non interruptable needs to be stopped and the aoe stuns are gone
hasty brook
Do any of you rogues get 'You are wasting combo points generated by Toxic Blade' in your wowanalyzer? Seems to always be there for me. I make sure I don't pop it when I have 4-5 combo points to avoid wasting.
It's like the only thing I see in there most of the time.
cobalt gyro
Totally fine to cast it at 4 or 5 combo points though
hasty brook
Alrighty. So that is my issue?
shy axle
it`s not an issue, just use on cd even if you waste the cp
halcyon tulip
https://www.wowhead.com/news=291734/possible-rise-of-azshara-essence-unlock-pvp-talent-in-pve-content?webhook/possible-rise-of-azshara-essence-unlock-pvp-talent-in-pve-content this is interesting
modest tendon
is the unstable catalyst any good for m+? it sims ok but I have a feeling I would make better use of double dose (which is from the same ring)
shy axle
dont use DD für M+ if you have the choice
bleak spoke
Oh my god my dream of playing smoke bomb in m+ is real life
hasty brook
Ah okay. Ty @shy axle
bleak spoke
@halcyon tulip
bleak spoke
Can you imagine the plays
bleak spoke
Spit gold comes out 4 people in bomb to cancel the cast and tank spell reflects it
Shrine reaping? Bomb your team and all the casters funnel into a single spot
cobalt gyro
Really though we'd just take honor among thieves
cobalt gyro
I'm guessing g pyro would ne disabled
bleak spoke
Why
cobalt gyro
35% of max hp?
bleak spoke
Doesn’t do that to elites already
cobalt gyro
Ok lemme just hit uunat for 60mil
bleak spoke
Like a gpy doesn’t hit big world quest mobs for all their hp why would it hit dungeon mobs like that.
Same way conflagrate talent doesn’t pop 5% of the hp off a huge mob when you’re playing destro in world content
Hey wouldn’t sub get dfa back in this case
That would be hawt
Honestly though in m+ you probably just take the fok talent for thoroughput @cobalt gyro
tropic ocean
how on earth are these assas doing 28k 29k on stormwall
do you let adds move to melee and cleave
o.O?
bleak spoke
Roll ruptures on elemental that are close
And when you have 3 cp on goood timing fok to refresh poisons
bleak spoke
You tunnel the boss hard
Also just crit envenom 50% of the time and you’ll have 31.2k
True story :^)
FeelsWipedMan on my rank 1 
Also uh, don’t get mc’d
tropic ocean
i already save cloak to cheese stuff 😄
bleak spoke
If you get mc’d scream for havoc on siren and tell them you’re in vendetta even if you’re not
tropic ocean
on all other boss i managed to pull 80-90
bleak spoke
Keep in mind that uptime on that boss is giga easy cuz you can hit it from marina
Narnia
If you have to run back for a weird siren chances are you can get the boss with fok to refresh poison even if it’s a pretty inconvenient siren
There’s no way to get your energy back if your dots drop so you really want to just find windows where you can dump and then refresh then after that you can do mechanics
Are you left boat or right
hasty brook
All speculation right? OR is it confirmed that you will be able to unlock pvp talents for pve?
balmy condor
hasty brook
That could cause some broken gameplay. Sounds cool though.
hasty brook
Gratz man
tropic ocean
still a long way to go but at least not blue anymore
hasty brook
Everyone knows gray is the new orange.
tropic ocean
I improve all my logs now
from green blue to all orange purple
except opulence but im ruby slave
hasty brook
Opulence I need to figure out. Maybe I am being told to pick up wrong ruby idk
tropic ocean
now we kill jaina and its the last log to improve
but with these new nerfs and the ele cleave I guess
i can improve a lot
hasty brook
Nerfs coming for us or other classes?
Sorry I am totally out of it when it comes to recent updates.
meager nebula
A few buffs for other classes
stuck knoll
We'll know more closer to 8.2
hasty brook
Good to know. Didn't know they were still tweeking her
unkempt shoal
Hey guys , can someone help me with my logs? I feel like im doing ok , yet i would really like to know if there's any improvement i can do.
hasty brook
use wowanalyzer yet to give you a basic run down?
That is also not meant to be a "Shoo go away". I used it to help me on things I was slacking on.
bleak spoke
Just link them and we’ll look fam
meager nebula
You can post your logs and someone will go through them
unkempt shoal
Okay 😄 I'l do that when i get some recent logs, thank you 😄
flat wadi
Returning asassination player and im wondering how they are right now, for both BoD and m+?
meager nebula
Good in both
cobalt pelican
big
bleak spoke
Incredibly strong in m+, arguably strongest melee in raid?
real bay
very good yes sir
flat wadi
was checiking m+ leaderboards and saw a whole lot of outlaw, dont really enjoy the playstyle so wanted to check in 😄
hasty brook
I feel pretty strong in raid currently.
bleak spoke
I’d say only outlaw is stronger in m+ but more for control than damage
meager nebula
Outlaw is better in m+ but not by a lot
hasty brook
Outlaw for the aoe phases but seem to fall behind on single target
bleak spoke
Cuz honestly assa has better thoroughput if played right
Assuming you have the traits
meager nebula
Well it's more to do with how long the mobs stay alive
bleak spoke
Yeah
meager nebula
And if the outlaw runs out of charges
real bay
outlaw has better burst for reaping which is quite irrelevant,overall you can beat an outlaw
meager nebula
Since sin has infinite aoe potential
bleak spoke
Higher the key goes the better assa gets on aoe
meager nebula
Yep
bleak spoke
There’s a really sweet spot for outlaw between 35 and a minute of aoe
But every 10-15 seconds past that assa catches up and gets better
Kinda the opposite on bosses though
meager nebula
The only thing to take note of is that it's a lot harder to get a good trait setup for m+ as sin
Than it is for outlaw
bleak spoke
Until you get second vendetta you start to fall very behind
flat wadi
Im not that hardcore m+ tho, around 13-17
meager nebula
Yeah keys that level it doesn't really matter
Mobs should fall over regardless of what you play
bleak spoke
At that level sin will keep your tank alive if you play vanish gud
In heavy cast dungeons
Cuz usually tanks doing 13-17s haven’t quite gotten a handle on what’s necessarily dangerous yet I’d say
jolly fable
hey has anyone got a macro for the lurkers trinket? thanks
strange python
I have 2 Questions:
- Do i have any mistakes in my opener for ST?: Garrote > Mutilate > Rupture >> (Use Trinket), Toxic Blade, Vendetta.........Literally Spam as much Evenom as u can
nvm just answered 2nd one myself
tropic ocean
wheres the vanish
strange python
Depends on Encounter
Vanish Asap after garrote runs out
or use it for multidot
can I clip Empowered Garrote or wait until old garrote runs out?
civic palm
Wait
dark crag
If you use ss your opener is wrong
With ss you want to g r g vend tb into env and muti spam. Use vanish when the emp g dropped and double g, like g finisher g
vast forum
also, vendetta before TB
flat wadi
How does m+ talents differ from raid/ST?
hasty brook
I usually do garrote,rupture,garrote, mutt, TB ,EV
hmm seems like I should not be doing the opener like that. Seeing :
Garrote
Rupture
Garrote
Vendetta
Mutilate
Rupture
Usually I do
Garrote
Rupture
Garrote
Mutilate
Vendetta
TB
Mutilatex (depends on combo points)
Rupture
hasty brook
Oh, damn. Okay ty.
New rotation is, Garrote, Rupture, Garrote, Vend, TB. Got it
broken quest
Little confused by simming my assa rogue. Been playing it purely as Outlul for M+ but re-rolling for raids and will likely play assa. Looking at logs the azerite builds are a little all over the place, lots of variation etc, but my sim has put the following as my best - 2x DD, 2x TC, 1x TtK, 1x NP
drifting cloud
traits are close, so 3rd row is quite important aswell
broken quest
makes sense - only have 4 pieces to play with atm, just expected DD/NP to be better seeing as bloodmallet lists NP as the best stacking trait?
idk, used to play DH so used to there being a definitive bis
just seems odd when i could run 3x NP yet raidbots is ignoring that completely and only taking the 1
drifting cloud
yeah the bloodmallet lists arent 100% accurate, always trust raidbots
keep in mind you might not have 100% uptime on TC, so youre better off simming it with 90%
broken quest
yeah put it at 80% and it still simmed by far the highest
desert night
How much would my traits inform my spec? I don't have access to a lot of 420Azerite pieces yet, but these are my available traits:
Outer - Inner - Center, respectively:
3SS/2EB/2TTK/1DD - 1NP/1Rezan/1EB/1TTK/1TradeWind/1SS - 1OP/3GR/1HMC
Starting from square 1 and I'd like a general direction to go in/get an opinion before I start simming.
next tendon
frigid sleet
combination of SS ttk eb, as always
warm ibex
what’s the ideal trait setup and stat weighting? i know it’s unique but an idea would be awesome
drifting cloud
if you wanna take some cookie cutter go 3 ss 2 eb and 1 ttk
but it depends more on which dungeon, which level, which affixes
warm ibex
of course it’s all relative but a good baseline to work with is always good to build from
any idea on stats? mastery/crit still superior
drifting cloud
vers is fine aswell
youre mostly swapping rings unless you actually have that much gear to choose from
thats why theres no 1 correct asnwer, maybe checking vod from seli and flawless can give you more insight
warm ibex
perfect cheers
peak saffron
stormglide steps usable on mythic cabal or nah?
civic palm
Ye
sudden ocean
Does NP energy regen stack or not?
civic palm
no
sudden ocean
thank
bleak spoke
err, to cast vendetta i mean
civic palm
sync vendetta | vanish, the MA crits are still beefy.
and the bonus garrote damage from SUB is covered by the entire vendetta
civic palm
You still get the other really nice things from stealth, so stackem when you can.
strange python
does fan of knives benefit from Vers?
civic palm
Everything other than trinkets does.
strange python
best stats for x3 fan of knives?
civic palm
Crit
civic palm
Vers is for just EB spam
strange python
what else is there
civic palm
most of your damage is coming from FoK and EB so mastery does nothing and haste is devalued due to you dotting enough to maintain FoK spam.
onyx falcon
i mean... not when we finally get PK abck right? 😄 right...? =[
civic palm
I'd take EB over gigaNerfed PK all day.
lost horizon
You should aim for better rings (sockets are extremely high value for rings) and to replace azerokk trinket
But aside from that 25k seems fine for that ilvl? I doubt anyone will be able to give you a concrete answer on that
civic palm
Yeah that's always a weird question to answer, parses being easier to use to figure that answer out.
lost horizon
^
End of the day you can easily outperform someone who sims higher by playing better
(or sometimes by cheesing harder)
sand gust
kk
maiden siren
get the boss to 0 health before he gets you to 0 health
steady grotto
Cloak the fireball insta is all ive come up with so far
tropic ocean
@lost horizon or having better rng by not getting targetted by mechanics that make you lose uptime
fallow otter
@steady grotto stack ranged and use the doors as a wall on dead side, shaman apt and tremor super handy
tropic ocean
@steady grotto redot before his cast where you need to run away
steady grotto
@fallow otter time to bench myself?
tropic ocean
you need 10 ranges
well you dont need em but it makes the death realm phase trivial
so if you are just starting to progress the fight I highly recommend playing the door tactic
steady grotto
Yeah we might have to do a reshuffle we had 7 on our conclave kill yday
Had a lot of roster issues over the last 2 months which has been mega frustrating
Lots of people quitting
Op reclear took same amount of pulls as first clear lol
past marten
I am going to risk being the 199th person asking this: Did they change the sim results in Raidbots? What used to be a > 28k sim on there (with SimCraft always being 500 dps lower), is now < 28k. It's in line with my SimCraft programme, but less than it was yesterday evening.
past marten
nevermind, I am an idiot - I must have fatfingered mystic touch yesterday night before I went to bed 😄
steady moon
guys i'm having a problem with bartender where it will take 2-3 seconds after opening in stealth to change the bar back. Any ideas, never had this problem in Legion?
visual quartz
lol
solid nova
Are you running Subterfuge
steady moon
yeah
steady moon
LOL
solid nova
Due to talent
past marten
@solid nova When I sim the exact same input (SimCraft export directly out of WoW) with the standard settings in Raidbots and in SimCraft, I get different results
Are the standard settings different then?
shrewd night
I meeeean.. There will be variation in the results from sim to sim. How big of a difference are we talking?
vestal wren
are you sure that you use the latest simc version?
solid nova
Both of the above and raidbots and simulationcraft are exactly the same
Raidbots is just the cloud version
So i'd check your version
vestal wren
you can make sure to use the same settings by copying from this dropdown
past marten
I tried both the most up to date nightly build and the 8.1.5, release 1
solid nova
If we're talking tiny differences, thats just sim averages fluctuating
If we're talking big differences, Ill wager your simc is wrong
past marten
I sim 28.112 on Raidbots and 27.781 on SimCraft
solid nova
Can you post the Raidbots sim?
And if that looks fine, its going to be your SimCraft
As Raidbots is literally cloud SimCraft
vestal wren
get the latest version of simc from:
http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D
copy from the mentioned field to simc
latest version is from 11th, tho there should be no change to sin
vast forum
Do you have the zuldazar setbonus active in raidbots, but off in simcraft?
The difference seems to be on that level
vestal wren
the simc settings should be included in the simc imput field
past marten
set_bonus=gift_of_the_loa_2pc=1 shows in Profile in SimCraft
vestal wren
it would help if you post your report (from raidbots)
vestal wren
Pianø : 28115 dps (28,107 DPS on raidbots)
the 8 dps diffrence are within margin of error
past marten
Yeah, I was talking about the 400-500 dps difference
Eleem referred to the bfa.zuldazar=1
Is there a way to have that permanently?
Or do I have to always copy that into SimCraft?
vestal wren
just adding bfa.zuldazar=1 should be fine
unless you want to configure your sim diffrent
raidbots just allowes you to do that with a easier to use interface
tiny agate
Hello guys, what is the best talent (level100) in m+ content ? 15+
tropic ocean
depends on your traits
but just use poison bomb it will serve you will without thinking
modest tendon
I have the cephalohide jacket, should I use twist the knife or dagger in the back for m+?
modest tendon
ty
Can I ask why that is? like why would it be better than any other single target trait?
rigid mango
Because it's always good
DD counters EB so DD is hot garbage for M+
You don't always get full NP damage
So there you are, TTK
and it's really good for pumping env damage into 1 target
which is super valuable during sang weeks, since you ahve more control ove when things die
tropic ocean
dagger in the back would be good if eb procced it on multiple targets
rigid mango
^
tropic ocean
but sadly it doesnt and for st ttk>>>> ditb
modest tendon
was a bit confused becuase it sims higher on hectic cleave on bloodmallet
rigid mango
all in all one of the best traits
rigid mango
highly recommend it for all m+ weeks pretty much
modest tendon
what would the perfect build be then? or would it depend on the affixes/dungeon? like im guessing 3ebs and at least 1 ss?
tropic ocean
which is not even close to m+
rigid mango
My name is pretty decent
for this week it's super good to go 3 TTK imo
since you can keep shit dying at same speed
tropic ocean
nah u just lose so much dps
tropic ocean
removing 1 eb is like 4-5k less dps
tropic ocean
well it still is about dmg since u can pull big
tropic ocean
so u can just 3eb 1 ss 2 ttk and will have good prio and blastaoe
rigid mango
but still, picking and choosing whenever anything should or shouldn't die
is so good
esp in pugs
I'm just rocking 3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss
tropic ocean
and with current setups its not hardly needed to counter sanguine
and ofc if tank is not stupid
tropic ocean
with necrotic tank should naturally kite so mobs should be some spread
modest tendon
I think Iv been going about this wrong haha
rigid mango
ig it's down ot personal pref
I just rly love the fact that shit dies when i press env, and shit doesn't if I don't
It's handy to have that control since I mostly run w aoe blasters anyways
tropic ocean
i guess the gain between 2 ttk and 3 ttk over 2 eb and 3 eb is very little I did a 15? fh i think earlier with seli using 2 eb only and was 8k or 9k behind overall
eb just super hard this week
tropic ocean
since you spend so much time fighting trash
rigid mango
yeah I mean
ofc it's dung related
wouldn't go 3 eb in a kr, but I can see it being good in fh
tropic ocean
and for bolstering imo 2-3ttk is pretty much nobrain and everyone will love you for doing it (if not stupid)
rigid mango
Yah I just think
bolst/sang are similar enough
to the point where I just love running 3 ttk
modest tendon
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/nagrand/bragi can I ask what people think I should try to change? what azerite piece should I try to roll for or whatever, ty
tropic ocean
for m+ or raid?
tropic ocean
what traits
rigid mango
tbh
stable oxide
UC isn't that bad. depends on how much you need to move
modest tendon
ss and blightborne
tropic ocean
probably not worth changing
opulence helm is decent for m+
other than that u just need to be lucky to get right helm
rigid mango
^
modest tendon
just got into a raid team so I might be able to farm for that, otherwise I guess ill just reroll until I get a better one
thanks for the help though
tropic ocean
your azerite isnt awful for m+ its decent, if you are unsatisfied with it, you can check the outlaw traits on it, can play outlaw if you have better traits until you get a more satisfying helm
modest tendon
im playing assination for practice because Iv just got into raiding, spent the first half of the tier in outlaw, it is pretty fun
past marten
Less of a question, but more of a poll (as it can be quite subjective): if you could choose between a 3x DD 3x NP (with 1 Flames, 1 Gutripper, 1 OP tert) and a 3x DD 2x NP 1x TTK (with 2 OP, 1 Gutripper tert), what would you take
because, while the 2nd one sims higher, I feel like the 1st one is more reliable as the NP damage gets applied no matter what + the OP has a high upside but feels like it's sometimes wasted during unlucky downtime procs
rigid mango
You sound like you're asking about Ceph
And ceph, is the best chest piece in the game
tropic ocean
@past marten im not sure this is an opinion base decision, and highly dependant on the encounter you are fighting
past marten
I have both Ceph and Mekka, it only feels like Mekka outperforms Ceph in "real life conditions"
past marten
it's my 3rd :^)
tropic ocean
then ceph>mekka
anyways it depends on the encounter
if you need on demand burst stacking 3 np is good
e.g. jaina p3
past marten
Doing Mythic Blockade rn
tropic ocean
for stormwall idk, if u struggle with dps on 1 side of boat, maybe
should sim it, but I guess even tc is > 2nd or 3rd np
tropic ocean
no, simming just tells you what is your optimal setu
past marten
the Sea Swell stacking kind of ruins the Overwhelming Power stacks
tropic ocean
ofc if you have a bad boss uptime np will be superior to other traits
rigid mango
That's just p1 tho
tropic ocean
I think in my latest kill I even used the cos crit boots cuz they are so good in p2 :>
they suck in boat phase but in 2nd phase you don't really take dmg
so they have a good uptime
same with overwhelming power
past marten
Yeah, true for 2nd phase
past marten
I noticed, feelsbadman
rigid mango
coral meadow
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/kiljaeden/kmero#zone=21 how do parse on Jaina
tropic ocean
Pad ele
Pad barrels
Pad image if possible
Cheese first ring of frost with cloak
Pad first 2 adds on ship p1
chilly hedge
Hey guys, do we have any Haste/Mastery/Crit Cap as assassination rogue please ? :p
solid nova
Nope, none
tropic ocean
You‘re capped at 425 socketed 😅
mighty elm
@coral meadow just dot barrel, ballista and elemental for resources , don’t really need anything else
chilly hedge
Okay thx :p
past marten
did you also tick the "+" at the side to show how many stacks you had?
past marten
Sorry, should have been clearer - I meant the boots
sometimes the uptime can be a bit misleading, due to one stack also counting as uptime
stuck knoll
They follow the same rules
tropic ocean
once u go off the ship its pretty good
as melee basically constant up and only drop when orb pops?
past marten
true, the probably lose approx. 40% of their value compared to sim
if you check for the average stacks vs. 10 permanent stacks during simulation
tropic ocean
maybe not the best choice for pushing log
but in the phase where you need the dmg you'll have 10 stacks
past marten
true
tropic ocean
e.g. ignoring add wave and tunneling boss
for boats it wont matter we dps stop anyways
past marten
I simmed Mekka vs Ceph and the difference is 90dps, when I change the Unstable Flames of Mekka to Overwhelming Power (to check trait values), Mekka would sim 160 dps higher
250 dps delta coming from OP apparently
tropic ocean
for mekka i guess op is fine
since its a very rng fight
you'll want the highest possible setup when you're actually dpsing the boss
and not running with bombs, flying in the air or dodgin flames
tropic ocean
i guess y
past marten
I've just verified it for myself, Weapon Enchants and Tertiaries can all proc from dots
dawn raptor
how do i parse blockade mytic
past marten
Which kind of makes Mekka feel bad, getting OP while you are running with a bomb 😄
Dotting up Elementals while clapping the boss, I'd say
dark crag
You hit the boss and hit the adds with stacks
spice surge
All proccs for assa are rppm, so dotting more targets doesnt mean you get procs more often
It proc X times per minute, regardless
past marten
regardless if you actually attack the boss also?
so basically being in combat is enough?
spice surge
Well you need to do one attack
Thats why you have guaranteed blightborne and overwhelming when mekka lands
past marten
Which makes it useful for the lust burn directly after landing, got you. Wouldn't that make it worse during P1 though? Getting an unlucky proc right as you run off the boss with bomb would completely negate the upside of that one OP proc?
Or do I understand that wrong?
spice surge
Yes, but getting the bomb itself is unlucky to begin with if youre looking to parse
But like, theres nothing to play around
Not dotting up the boss is worse than it proccing when you run out
past marten
Fully understand that
It's just me wondering whether a 90 dps upside (which comes from OP, not TTK) could actually become a downside with downtime during a bossfight, in like losing melee range for a couple of seconds/hiding for bombs etc.
Doesn't make or break a parse obviously, it's just me thinking of the "most reliable" set-up
strange python
what's the item called that you can place and shadowstep to on Uu'nat
tribal marlin
pseudo sage
curious, as sims show stacking 3x NP and 3x DD as best dps, while the ravenholdt guide shows NP as only good to have 1 point in because the energy regeneration doesn't stack anyone able to offer any clarification?
royal lantern
you want good secondary traits too
pseudo sage
right but just simply looking at the 1st and 2nd rings, is it better to stack 3 NP and DD, or better to go 3 DD 2 NP 1 SS/TTK
just trying to understand why sims show NP to be bis with nothing else comming close, while guides say differently
and ofc trying to get my dps up
hollow stone
3 np only LOOKS to be best because of how much value the first one gives
Look at the increase from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 vs the increase of 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 for dd
Youll see what i mean
vast forum
also, Overwhelming power is called "OP" for a reason
cephalohide (DD/TTK/OP) is your best ST choice for a chest slot
just because of the OP
tacit plover
Best traits for assasi?
royal lantern
the pins
hollow stone
And for what?
IF gear existed w 3x dd 3x np 3x op, yes, it would probably be best. But that doesnt exist @pseudo sage
pseudo sage
I see, so OP is what you need to base gear around, at least to some extent
lost horizon
I wouldn't think of it that way
pseudo sage
Ty to everyone for the assistance, been a loooong time since i played rogue and I dont like being bad xD
lost horizon
Just OP makes ceph/Gorak tul's mantle ideal
End of the day you just sim what you've got to see what's best
If you save residuum for specific piece even then you can just sim each option to make your choice
pseudo sage
true, thats what iv been doing(simming to see whats best) just havent understood why NP was valued so high with guides showing it to not be great to have multiple stacks
cobalt gyro
It adds a lot of damage through the actual damage it gives and the energy regen
But the regen doesn't stack, so the 2nd trait will have less value than that first one
harsh sphinx
If you could run any azerite setup you wanted on jaina would you roll with 3xNP?
tropic ocean
i'd roll the one that gave me highest dps
cobalt gyro
I mean last phase burst is important, 3 NP would probably give you more of that
tropic ocean
it was important*
pseudo sage
Ty for the info/advice everyone!
strange python
hi guys, the jewelry ring it's worth to pick up and upgrade it?
spice surge
They are very expensive, but if you have bad rings and gold isnt an issue then the ring is very good
strange python
I think I will pick up and I will be upgrading it too with the 8.2
spice surge
You dont need to have done the 8.1 rings to craft the 8.2 rings
strange python
I don't need to upgrade the 415 ring to 430 and later to 445?
spice surge
You will have to craft the 415 8.2 ring to get the 430 recipe yes
But you dont need to craft the 8.1 ring (which uses breath of bwonsamdi)
visual quartz
was same with pieces with sanguinated, didnt need to make them to make the bod ones.
spice surge
8.2 will have a new set of recipes yes
With the first one being 415, and it will require mats from aszhara
strange python
I just saw wowhead, you're right. ty
bleak spoke
@cobalt gyro if only playing without ttk didn’t just feel like garbage now
tropic ocean
qq: do you vendetta when u hit 9 stacks?
or straight up when u take the buff?
@cos
tribal marlin
vendetta when you hit 9 stacks
tribal marlin
it's fun for sin yes
I usually pop vanish at 8 stacks, put my garrote then vend
when we reach voidstone phase I vendetta on Fa'thuul also, Zaxasj drop really fast and unless you don't listen to the switch call you will loose some vendetta time
tropic ocean
we haven't gone that far yet we just started
but so far it looks really nice for sin
outer venture
so my zocalo stabber 405 with socket sims better than my 415 rastakhan weapon... didnt blizzard say they wanted to fix that?
drifting cloud
think its from wqs
outer venture
exactly
tropic ocean
theres no way 405 in mainhand will outsim 415
outer venture
offhand
drifting cloud
he didnt say it was mainhand
outer venture
its offhand.
spice surge
Sockets is often far more impactful than ilvl
tropic ocean
well of hand socket > ilvl
spice surge
The only exception is mainhand
tropic ocean
like in any other piece
spice surge
How many ilvl a socket is worth depends on the slot, but offhand sockets are worth like 25ilvls
outer venture
holy sht
tribal marlin
off hand, when I simmed my offhand 410 was same than my 405 socket (same dagger)
outer venture
well my 405 with socket does like 140 dps more than the rastakhan 415
maybe because it also has haste and mastery
tropic ocean
+40stat from socket
spice surge
No way a 410 dagger is the same as a 405 with socket (in offhand)
Not even remotely close
outer venture
such a shame.. blizzard wanted to fix the "I feel bad for a +10 ilvl upgrade because I cant use it" sht
and still here we are
spice surge
9 agi, 3 secondaries and 10 ohwdps VS 40 secondary stats
tribal marlin
well sims tells it
spice surge
My point being that you've almost certainly simmed it incorrectly
tribal marlin
it's a sim I did like months ago
I can't redo it I deletes the 410 dagger since I got 415now
solid nova
There is no scenario where those would be the same, you've definitely made a mistake in your sim.
Not even close to the same*
tribal marlin
maybe then
rigid mango
Xd
tribal marlin
I didn't make any statement, I said "when I simmed it, my 410 no socket was same than my 405 socket"
and the only conclusion you can make with my message is "sim your self"
rigid mango
tribal marlin
I redid the sim just now it give 405 socket quite ahead but I have 20 more ilvl now
lol you sim at 27k man
rigid mango
man
tribal marlin
do the sim with 385 ilvl you might have different result
And I told you I can't since I did it month ago can we move on ?
only good thing that comes from that discuss is "sim your self > all answer"
rigid mango
I mean you did just put a blanket statement of what your sim said
and then had no proof to back it up, it's hard to have an argument that way
tribal marlin
ok bye
rigid mango
Ouch
rigid mango
big oofers
golden relic
strange python
Hi should i go 3x DD & 3x NP for raid or instead of 1-2 DD to 1-2 SS
strange python
parses in BoD 😄
rigid mango
Then you'd rather aim for 3 dd 3 np for the last 3
and probably some ss related builds for the first 6
If you look at WCL you'll see what people are running each boss
strange python
and with 3x NP 3x DD i should play Master assasin?
tropic ocean
random info without any backup waaaaait
rigid mango
Yes
tropic ocean
Are we still in ravenholdt
rigid mango
no ss = MA, any amount of ss = sub
once again, on WCL you'll see what people are running and you can just try to mimic that
solar bramble
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
cinder shuttle
rigid mango
same?
cinder shuttle
whats ttk?
rigid mango
Twist the knife
tropic ocean
Fuck i cant type fast on phone