It nearly always increases dps by a good amount of 100's
#assassination
rigid mango
spice surge
Link the sim is the easiest way
spice surge
Otherwise we're just speculating
thorny shore
is it worth to use 1 NP on this tyranical week?
mint kindle
Sure, sec.
rigid mango
if super high tyr KR or ToS maybe
spice surge
If you ran it locally you probably didnt edit it to actually use the trinket
mint kindle
@rigid mango Can I PM you? 280 people in Q
spice surge
You can pm me
thorny shore
damm, im using 2SS 2EB but dont know the other ones
mint kindle
@spice surge You're right. How do I do that?
rigid mango
Yeah pm eleem he's better at it
exotic widget
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fUVndAPCH23EghQgDU5M2e would you guys change anything?
rigid mango
better at rogue*
spice surge
You can run 3x too, but its just a case of what you want to accomplish
solemn meadow
1 shrouded maybe?
rigid mango
always
shrouded
it's super good
every week
@exotic widget probably swap ur head to DD NP
sturdy python
@exotic widget helm to DD instead if SS for pure st and MA if so. Other than that no
And NP*
exotic widget
yeh kno that one but i mean w/o respec azerite
spice surge
Wdym? If you respecc your azerite you get a lot more damage
Isnt that what you want?
rigid mango
I mean it's the only thing that would increase ur dps if ur already simming @exotic widget
hollow stone
You ask if they change anything. They respond. Then you ask other than az. What response are you looking for? "Get more ilvl and sockets"?
solemn meadow
rigid mango
Sim will say what your best pieces are, swap ur azerite on your helm and you're gonna get higher dps
🤷
sturdy python
Probably side grades or weird interacting trinkets but you have none of that
solemn meadow
and what do you guysusually sim around?
hollow stone
Cloak first ring if you need to soak during transition. Then cloak siege in p2. Then cloak siege in p3 @solemn meadow
hollow stone
If you dont need to soak in trans, cloak on 2nd ring lets you stay in and thats right when 2nd vend is up
exotic widget
i meant the gear not the azrerite sorry*
solemn meadow
I rerolled from warrior so its all new having all this utility
shy axle
opulenz myth as assa, are you just unneling the boss completely ignoring the adds or are you funneling the FoK cps into the boss?
exotic widget
dont like respeccing i like 1 ss for bda
exotic widget
2nd np not simming as high
hollow stone
@shy axle depends on your gear and if you have topaz buff or not. And what gem you took
spice surge
Yet you dont want to do the things we say will improve your st dps?
hollow stone
Just get more gear with higher ilvl, better stats, and more sockets @exotic widget
exotic widget
i can do it of course but i mean the gear, would you change trinket or bracers
hollow stone
Ez
solemn meadow
well you dont sim with subterfuge
rigid mango
but
solemn meadow
if you dont have shrouded
rigid mango
like
sims will say
what is best
Why are u asking here when it litearlly does it for you
solemn meadow
afai 1 shrouded makes Subterfuge better but without shrouded you use ma or not?
so that should sim higher
with MA
spice surge
Yes, generally for ST
solemn meadow
but I get what you mean by having atleast 1 shrouded
Makes the opener better for me?
idk how to tell it
rigid mango
Yes
SS = you take sub
no SS = you take MA
For more ST fights like last 3 in BoD MA with full ST will sim better and be better
probably.
but for the first 6, SS can be better since most have some sort of cleave
exotic widget
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7vwpCo23LPFgaJFn3eA2C8 very small difference
solemn meadow
my highest was 94k so far
with my crappo gear
small?
oh
you mean TC
still 450 dps
rigid mango
but it's aan increase
solemn meadow
he means
rigid mango
idk
solemn meadow
TC vs NP
rigid mango
are u simming
tribal marlin
No way TC vs 2nd NP = 450 dps diff
hollow stone
If theyre close, np > tc
sturdy python
Probably so you’d actually have a small dps increase with NP in most real situations
Plus the burst potential
spice surge
Its mostly because his chest already has NP so he has 2 of them already
solemn meadow
well TC isnt that good on jaina
tribal marlin
ok ok sorry
solemn meadow
or it shouldnt be
rigid mango
When i sim with 90% uptime it gives me a 103 dps diff
hollow stone
Plus the potential downside of tc
spice surge
The downside of tc almost never exists
I doubt you can find a log where tc made the difference that kill somebody
Its hard to even find a log where somebody takes a damage event under 20%
hollow stone
Yea. But if youre 6 dps difference... you might as well use the one that has less potential to fuck you up. I understand the arg about timing of boss n cd usage
But i stand by what i said
hollow stone
By downside i mean under 50% since thats when you lose the agi
exotic widget
tc dmg outside of cds only thing
hollow stone
I covered that too
hollow stone
Thats 5 whole gold tho
torpid cradle
what traits should i aim for m+
solemn meadow
but I heard in 8.2 assa gonna be better in mythic +?
since they want to nerf outlaw or smth
torpid cradle
i start playng assa scuz i think ahead
hollow stone
Need to know next seasonal affix and how big the wits nerf actually is for aoe
rigid mango
dunno the strength of the essences
solemn meadow
target cap on outlaw aoe
spice surge
They've already posted their outlaw nerf
rigid mango
If outlaw get a bonkers essence, they can still be better
spice surge
And its really minor
spice surge
Outlaw nerf has mostly to due with reaping not being in the game anymore
rigid mango
Wits stacks slower on higher targets but faster on low
spice surge
Assa is also among the best specs for m+ atm
rigid mango
Unless outlaw gets something that's much stronger than assa gets, then assa will be better
I run 3ttk 2ss/eb 1ss/eb or 2 ttk 2 ss 1 bbi 1 eb
or 2/2/2
those are generally quite well rounded builds
mossy ferry
what makes TTK so good for m+?
rigid mango
You get prio dmg
You pump ST damage into a mob that needs to die faster
than others
or you can regulate when things should die, say during bolst weeks like this one or stuff like sang too
You can pretty much choose when things should die
mossy ferry
are you running PB or CT?
real bay
never saw ttk as anything special but then again no gear for 2/3
real bay
its pumping pretty hard even without to prio mobs
rigid mango
Yeah I mean it's not bad as 1 of
but having 2/3 makes it sorta the playstyle of just pumping into 1 mob
1 target*
just like 3 EB makes it more worth just spamming FoK instead of actually using env
solemn meadow
with 4 combo points and rupture nearly going down
do you just 4 point rupture
or mutilate
solemn meadow
ok
rigid mango
unless you're running DS
solemn meadow
thought maybe over the full duration
rigid mango
then it's 5+
solemn meadow
DS?
rigid mango
Deeper strat
rigid mango
no
solemn meadow
I am new to this class so I appreciate the help
rigid mango
very unworth to do so
autumn stag
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
past marten
I've seen in guides that it's recommended to use TB on CD in ST situations. At the same time, I see a lot of high-ranked raiders hold it for some seconds. Is there anything that changes the "on cd"-playstyle? Do you need to pool energy for it?
spice surge
On a pure patchwerk fight delaying isnt worth it, since you ideally want to have saved up resources beforehand
But for example on jaina, i know i only get X amount of TB's before the ice ring forces me to move away
So it doesnt really matter if i delay it since it wont lose me a cast
cobalt gyro
If it's being delayed a few seconds it's likely they know a mechanic is coming up that will force a disconnect, which means holding it would be better in most cases
spice surge
But if you're fighting a damage dummy then on CD is always the play
late plinth
what traits do people recommend this week for m+? 18 and higher
spice surge
The same trait we run every week tbh. A mix of twist/shrouded/echoing
near pilot
Guys notice if you quick sim on raidbots it’ll give you the spell order like logs do? Mine either held TB until it could env after every time or it lined up better for them more than it ever does for me
Also had it gambling in the opener with vanish then TB, I’m a wuss and TB before vanish
spice surge
It doesnt hold tb though?
near pilot
I’d have to go back in and look at the time stamp im not home at the moment
spice surge
Its the same thing as you've always been able to see if you pressed "Full html report" on the right side
Just in a clearer and more neatly organized way
near pilot
Would explain some pulls I open at 60k and others 35k 😂
visual quartz
I just love the gamble, that 5 seconds of shame if it doesnt work is worth for when it does
dapper wraith
Am I missing something? Why is it a gamble? logically it makes more sense to TB -> Vanish -> Env -> Mut -> Env ? 2 high crit chance env?
or am I thinkin about this wrong
tropic ocean
because
if your mutilate doesnt crit u r fked
while with tb u have safely 4 cp
the tb- vanish- envenom-mutilate-envenom can go way higher
tb inside vanish ist he more safe/reliable opener
drowsy crag
What do y'all think about TB vs exang in pvp situations?
spice surge
Tb
drowsy crag
Sorry, yeah, wrong chat. My bad.
tropic ocean
not meant offensively but probably due to notification settings youll get a better answer by actual pvpers
minor scarab
Guys Elaborate Planning vs Master Poisoner in M+ situations, what are you guys running?
spice surge
Master poisoner is never better than EP in pve
minor scarab
thx<3
solemn meadow
how do I open on jaina
in p3?
Vanish Garrote Rupture Garrote Vendetta TB?
I have 1 Shrouded
spice surge
Ideally you probably should vanish right before wall
So you can garrote her right before she tps and then also garrote wall
low junco
real bay
TC isn't bad, just boring
rigid mango
TC 🤢
rigid mango
I think the actual up time is about 95%, which means you take between the two values ig
buoyant coyote
Stormwall mythic is aids as melee
near pilot
just had a 410 w/ socket plumage, alrdy have the 410 lurker with socket, thoughts on having 2 on use trinks?
past marten
Concerning the TB before or after Vanish, wouldn't it also be an option to TB before Vanish and do Env -> Mut -> Env, even if you only get 3cp on the Mut?
You get a 30s cooldown on your on-use, so it's probably only worth it if your other options are considerably worse
royal lantern
stormwall mythic is pretty chill tbh
past marten
Sim it, my guess is that the spyglass sims better
royal lantern
unless you are the 1 poor guy that needs too run around with the debuff too clear stuff
rigid mango
stormwall mythic is super nice
past p1 it's just so eas
as a melee that is, you barely do anything
You just smack the boss and move
thorny shore
tb or exs for this week?
rigid mango
unless you have 3x SS
and possibly even need to be nelf
and GCB really helps
you wont be using exsang
And GCB is quite bad for M+
near pilot
yeah
rigid mango
Together
rigid mango
Yeah obv they're gonna be worse
minor thicket
Question if I already have one nothing personal trait does it benefit me to have a second
cobalt gyro
ya it's ok
crystal barn
so i am just starting to play with master assassin talented and i am practicing the new rotation - i dont understand why i would vanish with 0 cp and break stealth with toxic blade, but i trust the guide at ravenholdt website - that being said, when my vanish comes off cooldown, should i use it in roughly the same way?
solemn meadow
well because you will always crit with toxic blade
or atleast
very often
and you are not guaranteed to get 3 cp with mutilate
since you have to crit with both
past marten
Wait, if you crit with both you get 4 cp
crystal barn
ok so when vanish is ready again after 2 mins, i am thinking i get 4 cp, vanish, tb, envenom, mut, mut?
civic palm
Yep
crystal barn
is that reasonable? or is there something more optimal?
civic palm
Nope that's it. A possible wasted CP from TB isn't that important in that scenario.
crystal barn
ok time to practice it on a dummy - i need to reset my muscle memory lol
thank you everyone
zinc gust
any rogues know how to AOE Reaping?
civic palm
Make sure you have 35 energy per second. Press FoK forever.
civic palm
Who said that? o_O
zinc gust
because FOK is crap for reaping, and gets about 40-50k dps if lucky at 400
civic palm
and are you having issues clearing Reaping?
zinc gust
everry one of my alts pushes 80-100k at 400
civic palm
waowgreat
meager nebula
are you using EB?
zinc gust
just wondred why assass cant push
zinc gust
and i prefer over outlaw
cobalt gyro
seli is over 3k score and he only plays sin.
meager nebula
sin is only a tiny bit behind outlaw in terms of aoe damage
civic palm
OTL is just braindead when it comes to AoE.
zinc gust
so need the traits then?
meager nebula
imagine fok having charges
zinc gust
for FOK
meager nebula
cobalt gyro
ofc
civic palm
👍
meager nebula
you want a healthy balance of traits
civic palm
Yeah any combo.
cobalt gyro
1 ttk, 2 ss, 3 eb, doesn't matter really
minor scarab
how should i actually handle mega aoe (reaping) as assas rogue? is it just praying poison bomb will trigger?
oh nvm just noticed you just had a conversation about it, my bad
spice surge
Press fok
civic palm
👍
minor scarab
should i go for x2 EB and give up a DD or 1 DD 1 EB, for m+?
nimble tartan
Anyone else playing ma on cabal 🕴
solar rose
@nimble tartan stop
nimble tartan
I can’t bro
solar rose
civic palm
So broke he can't afford a Tome.
civic palm
Nope.
crystal barn
what is the garrote pandemic? < 4s?
civic palm
5.4 seconds
solid nova
7.2
crystal barn
thank you guys - this discord is amazing btw - you guys are awesome
its like a 24hr rogue helpline - never gotta wait for answers lol
cobalt gyro
nice
tropic ocean
@minor scarab if you dont want the rng playstyle of pb u can use hidden blades as well
golden relic
what was the giga spec with vision of perfection on PTR
dark crag
I hate it when raid plays progress tactics on farm bosses
sacred vale
whats the best talent setup for assass st for raid
trim forge
So if you take PB on reaping is the game just to fan spam and dump CP on ruptures? Or do you get a few ruptures out and eviscerate?
dark crag
You can't eviscerate as assassin. You need 4 bleeds to be energy neutral
And then you either keep foking the reaping wave or focus down a prio target
trim forge
Yeah, I meant envenom just typed evis. So it sounds like you are saying fan and keep ruptures up unless a priority target enters into the reaping stage? So you arent spending CP hoping for a PB?
meager nebula
your damage output is higher by just spamming fok
you'll only spend cp to reapply bleeds if they are going to drop
trim forge
@meager nebula thanks
peak saffron
can anyone share the cancelaura macro for Insidious Gift?
peak saffron
yeah. just not good with wording macros most of the time 😃
civic palm
This probably works.
#showtooltip Lurker's Insidious Gift
/cancelaura Insidious Gift
/use Lurker's Insidious Gift
thank you very much
civic palm
Check for me real fast?
peak saffron
kind of middle of raid, but i will. just got the trinket, starting Crucible mythic prog now
civic palm
mmk GL
peak saffron
#showtooltip Vendetta
/cast Vendetta
/cancelaura Insidious Gift
/use Lurker's Insidious Gift
/use 13
will this work okay so that I can use the same macro still with other trinkets, matched with vendetta?
civic palm
You might have to mash it, I am not 100% sure on how Blizzard is restricting macro use anymore.
The cancelaura might be funky, but it SHOULD work with 1 press.
lost horizon
What I ended up doing for it was just a shift mod for cancel aura
Then nomod for actually using the trinket
I think I also did a line for alt as well to use trinket as usual (since that's my PTT key)
If you don't add something like that you won't be able to use trinket if holding alt or another modifier
white basalt
ive got 420 vers/crit boots. also 420 lurker's. just got the 420 crit boots from crucible. are these a big upgrade? considering my trinket would clear the crit buff....
civic palm
Would it?
civic palm
Not all damage does, check and find out.
white basalt
oh the boots also have +100 vers which is nice
well i dont want to equip it if its not a big upgrade and i can give to guildy
white basalt
hm, +375 dps so i guess its worth it
still not sure if my trinket damage cancels it though, and if the sim accounts for that
sturdy python
The lurker trinket?
white basalt
yea
sturdy python
Dont think it does
white basalt
well then thats dope
sturdy python
People definitley would have noted it by now
white basalt
got a 420 lurkers then 420 boots....nice
Can confirm. Lurker's damage does not cancel the Stormglide Steps buff.
visual quartz
the trinket says any dmg, but theres like 90% of dmg things in raids/dungeons that dont actually cancel it, definitely worded wrong
civic palm
It's mostly impossible to word because they made a trinket that would be useless otherwise.
fringe parcel
are we talking about trinket or boots?
i have boots and was under the impression they get cancelled by a ton of shit so thought they were fairly useless
sturdy python
THey mean boots
And most unavoidable damage does not cancel them, theyre quite good
Jaina being the exception
civic palm
Yep.
civic palm
Dodge == Extremely Good
fringe parcel
so youd use them in both m+ and raid in most situations?
white basalt
Best gem to grab on opulence just for padding?
sturdy python
Opal
Unless you kill him exceptionally fast then maybe emerald has use? Cant remember
white basalt
went with emerald, prob should have gone opal i guess. just doing a heroic smash run so shit is dying super quick
midnight flower
@fringe parcel yup I always use them. Check the uptimes it’s worth
What you think would cancel it doesn’t
fringe parcel
okay, thanks
prisma carbon
emerald is definitely better on heroic unless your dps is awful and you get more than 2 add phases
fleet whale
i'm usually on ruby duty these days lol
untold current
Do bosses take dmg from bolstered spotter? Or just adds
bronze kelp
endboss does
cobalt gyro
All tentacles do
untold current
lol for real?
bronze kelp
yep, but makes the fight a bit harder, cause u have to dodge additional stuff
honest iris
what lvl 100 talent do u take with 3x echoing blades in m+?
strange python
If I have 2 TTK I may "spam" Envenom? Or do I have to renew it every X time?
bronze kelp
cause it makes u a little sub rogue
solemn meadow
u mean by spamming fok into evenom?
bronze kelp
if you play prio target build with 2 to 3 ttks you build around envenom when it comes to needed prio target dmg
so you build up your bleeds, and then fok to 5 CP and envenom your prio target
strange python
Nope Lacroux, I am talking about ST on raid
solemn meadow
I meant fahw
because he said like sub rogue
and didnt sub rogue spam shuriken storm into finisher?
in bolstering
solemn meadow
can I show u my azerite and would you mind helping me what the best setup for mythic + this week would be?
bronze kelp
okay maybe a bit less, depening on your gear
have u already simmed you top gear ?
ah okay
nvm
solemn meadow
I think so
bronze kelp
you cant really sim it exactly 😉
solemn meadow
I sadly dont have any luck on azerite since rerolling
yee simming mythic + seems not that accurate
solemn meadow
ye in queue
bronze kelp
😉
solemn meadow
no patreon
strange python
When you finish talking about Lacroux's doubt, could you help me with mine? I dont know if going 2 TTK I have to spam Mutilate + Envenom when I can
bronze kelp
i just can recommend to pay for raidbots. first of all to support the awesome work, and second to get skip the line, higher iterations and all that stuff
solemn meadow
I did
but then I wanted to stop with wow
then I rerolled and now I have to sim again
bronze kelp
im sorry @strange python you are talking of raid i guess, and im not raiding. only one time clear for curve 😉
but i would say, if you have TTK traits, you want to spent as much CP into envenom as possible
solemn meadow
I cleared yesterday but tbh I sadly dont really have any how to corretly play assa
probably have green logs everywhere
bronze kelp
that would be the most logic thing for me
assa is not that hard to learn. sure there are some small rotation things that can maybe push you a bit, but thats most of the time depending on RNG
solemn meadow
of course the try I fuck up my opener
is the kill
I completely wasted my vanish and my garrote
strange python
RNG with..? Bleeds?
solemn meadow
because I accidentaly hit garrote after subterfuge stopped
bronze kelp
nope with crits
strange python
Oh yeah
solemn meadow
and I tried the tip what one guy told me yesterday
with vanshing before wallphase
to garrote jaina and wall
but didnt get the timing right
here u go
this guy is like 1 week old
but I like rogue overall or assa
because it feels like you get rewarded for smart play
not like my old main
peak saffron
so you guys are using the Stormglide Steps even in m+? the uptime is that good?
solemn meadow
are those the crucible shoes?
peak saffron
yup
bronze kelp
dont have them, so can say much about it
so this @solemn meadow could be a good way to go for m+ this week https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9DwP4ibmmwHY68agNT9TaF
solemn meadow
only one echo?
bronze kelp
you dont have that much to choose from
you really have not enough pieces with good traits
since when do you play your rogue? dont you have more azerite to buy for residuum?
this one could also be not bad
bronze kelp
okay didnt read that
maybe you got better with 3SS 1EB 1TC 1BBI
but then you need a tank that allows you to restealth after each pull
otherwise the SS traits are wasted
oh but i see you are very low on crit and very high on haste
thats not optimal for m+
solemn meadow
I sure hate the azerite system
since we progress today I dont think I can really reset my azerite
and its so expensive
would be a waste of gold for 1 day
bronze kelp
i know what you mean. as long as you have to hope for good pieces its crap. only if you got enough to choose from it is good
solemn meadow
guess Ill just play outlul till I get some more azerite pieces
worldly iron
yeah I'd switch between assassination and outlaw if I had two sets 
strange python
+1
bronze kelp
if outlaw was fun to me, i maybe would have done that too
worldly iron
I much prefer assassination in m+ over outlaw
solemn meadow
I mean outlaw is alright but only fun because it does that much aoe dmg
if it didnt have that ez mode aoe I wouldnt play it
bronze kelp
outlaw is incredible for m+ for skips and other things
assa is only a little bit harder on aoe
worldly iron
been playing assassination the whole of bfa, except for a few weeks early uldir since I just wouldn't get any daggers, and it's way more enjoyable for me
in m+ specifically
bronze kelp
but the output of assa is still great
as outlaw you are faster geared for m+, do faster high aoe dmg and can play skips that contain sight mobs
solemn meadow
wdym by that
grizzled jay
I like outlaw rotation. Feels fun big BTE into big pistol shot is fun. Gouge is amazing, faster vanish for even more CC or cheesiness mechanics
bronze kelp
and of course have a high dmg output
but the playstyle is not mine
hated combat on former addons too
bronze kelp
have tried it couple of times, but only did the same amount of dmg like on assa
grizzled jay
I mean maybe your not yet good at jt🤔
bronze kelp
no, im just awesome as assa rogue 😉
worldly iron
I've been playing outlaw for a few weeks now, in both raids and m+ and I must say I enjoy outlaw more currently in raids but it's not nearly as fun for me in m+
I like the bleeds and FoK has always been my favorite ability
grizzled jay
3 silence open is surely amazing
worldly iron
feels nice man
worldly iron
for sure
still wish I could go 3x EB for giga pad
I only run like, 18-19 keys at tops so it's not that important
I usually play with aoe bois so it's not necessary for me to go 3 EB
bronze kelp
im playing also with aoe bois, but im doin better as assa XD
grizzled jay
The idea with that is. If you're gonna pad so much and brick your ST cause of 3eb might as well go outlaw
bronze kelp
still trying to "form" this group as they are meant to play their roles 😉
bronze kelp
same here
worldly iron
I'm not pushing 3k rio
bronze kelp
- as outlaw you are doomed to orb duty 😉
worldly iron
I'm sitting at like.. 1.9k-ish, probably going for 2k and I'll be happy with that
bronze kelp
my aim for this season is 2,5k and thats easily doable as assa
worldly iron
I just do some chill 18s with guildies whenever they go for some m+
bronze kelp
and on giga pulls im also able to go to do 200k aoe
icy ember
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mJ82gq2gur555EL612bYd8 so for the shoes, people have said dont use it on jaina... does that mean that falling off w/the debuff is bad?
meager nebula
You won't build above 2 stacks on jaina since the dot removes them
icy ember
ah true.. what about lurkers debuff, does that remove stacks?
meager nebula
No
icy ember
and what about the shield i have from spymasters, does that "buff" the stack?
meager nebula
Uh, which shield is that?
icy ember
ye
so i guess i'm trying to see what it would be like with no stacks of the buff
cuz verse is bad AF
meager nebula
The boots are bad if you can't generate/hold high stacks
So you'd be better off with normal boots
icy ember
ye, you are right, and i am terrible at not taking damage 
meager nebula
On most fights there isn't a lot of damage that removes stacks
Jaina is the one fights that has constant removal
uncut cave
can anyone recommend a 415 azerite piece to buy for assa in head/shoulders
real bay
Gorak
strange python
What Traits do u guys recommend for BFA as Assa, I dont have any Azerit piece with TTK yet, i can mainly decide how much i stack SS, DD and NP
bronze kelp
@uncut cave for what purpose? M+ or Raid?
swift timber
What's peoples opinion on BBI for raiding, too rng or better than NP?
bronze kelp
BBI sims better -> BBI is good ^^
strange python
Raid
worldly iron
you can pretty much always do well with the pure st build
bronze kelp
yep
worldly iron
you might not get as high logs on cleave fights, but your damage will still suffice
bronze kelp
if you play for logs -> look at the top parses and see what they used and how they played it
swift timber
and then cry when they have 425 + sockets in every slot
bronze kelp
^^
hoary wedge
once you get the holy insidious gift from uunat, what do you guys like running in your other trinket slot? I have 395 dice and a 400 spyglass I'm trying to pick between
worldly iron
sim
swift timber
If I had to guess I would say that just comes down to dice rng
hoary wedge
is it ever right to take two on use trinkets?
hoary wedge
looks like sims want me to take 400 gift and 405 pvp medallion, I guess just save medallion for second TB in opener since gift should always be paired with vendetta. thanks for the input.
vast forum
Yea, you'll have a few globals of both lurker and medallion
Cuz lurker is 30 sec duration, but only induces a 20 sec cd on other on-use trinkets
so close yet so far
swift timber
bleak spoke
@cobalt gyro blightborne or set bonus off 28 for me 😦
Though I think cruciboots or lurkers would do it too
cobalt gyro
a trinket upgrade or more sockets might for me
bleak spoke
Ceph jacket too
real bay
single socket is over 120dps
cobalt gyro
well yeah but azerite is a bit more hard to get
bleak spoke
True
cobalt gyro
ceph would be nice
bleak spoke
Trinkets are pretty rare too
cobalt gyro
maybe a better ring
bleak spoke
I’d trade my ceph for blightborne shoulders any day though
cobalt gyro
that crit proc is insane dude
bleak spoke
It’s such a versatile piece
real bay
ceph is like 200dps upgrade, don't feel like it worth even trying for anymore
bleak spoke
Dungeon assa with shrouded blightborne, raid assa bis, outlaw with your choice of deadshot or ace and also fills brigands if you don’t have
bleak spoke
I’m still running jadefire shoulders
bleak spoke
They have gutripper but trech makes me ree
I think next week is first in two months I can’t roll
Unless I cut up one of my pistoleer’s
But not having to reforge for dungeon assa is pleasant
strange python
For cleave on raid I am okey going DD/TTK/NP ? For the 3rd boss of BoD
You think its better to go SS or TTK on raid? The sim says TTK for me but I can switch x2 TTK for x2 SS
real bay
SS better for any cleave "cheese" logging , TTK pure st
overall you will do more with SS on Grong if you manage to get garrotes properly on adds, but do what your raid needs
assumed you're ally but same works for jade
strange python
The extra 80% SS dmg will apply if i am not in stealth?
vast forum
No, but if you time vanish for 1st set of adds, it lines up with every set
If you're talking about grong that is
real bay
may as well go 3x for beefy g's, up to you
strange python
what do u think about 3x NP?
it leads to crazy dps spikes but also to high dps drop offs, but at least u can feel like a destruction warlock 😄
bleak spoke
just crit all your envenoms then you'll feel like a destruction warlock
cobalt gyro
just always crit 4head
strange python
is there any good trait setup u can run overall BoD? I mean i can understand that every encounter is better for ST or Cleave, but I cant go reforge after every boss
I try to analyze logs, most people run 3x DD other do 3 SS and others do 3 NP
it also depends on the tactic that the raid is playing, but is there anyway to be safe?
cobalt gyro
I run 3 dd 2 np 1 BB for every boss
azure basalt
same
strange python
maybe 2x SS 2x NP 2x DD?
azure basalt
while I do love how ss plays I just stick to what odowla says from not wanting to reforge for a couple bosses
and bbi feels really good during vendetta
strange python
sorry to ask, what is bbi?
strange python
how strong is TTK actually
ive seen rogues going legendary logs with Spamming Mutilate+Evenom only without actually maintaining Garrote or Rupture
If i go on sites like Bloodmallet or Herodamage
azure basalt
I have heard a single np, 3x dd, ttk and bbi sims the best for ST
but i havent looked myself
strange python
TTK is pretty average
The TTK is from the chest with DD and OP. Most likely
And I highly doubt people do legendary logs without maintaining Garrote or Rupture
azure basalt
ceph jacket right?
cobalt gyro
yeah i mean you're gonna have to prove a claim like that
cobalt gyro
1:35 kill where he dropped garrote for 6 seconds
vast forum
Champion logs 
bleak spoke
https://i.imgur.com/qmw7rCS.png looks like a rotational error
cobalt gyro
ya
spice surge
He also casted fok and delayed tb enough so that he essentially missed a cast
Far from perfect play, and far from top ranked log
bleak spoke
that's very bad
strange python
besides from analyzing the logs, can u guys recommend what traits u can run without ttk+bbi
i can run every possibility of NP,SS and DD only
bleak spoke
3 DD 3 NP
for raid
otherwise you take what you can get
jadefire shoulders with dd trech? they're in if you don't have np on shoulders or blightborne
have to run an SS cuz the only helm you can get is from opulence?
looks like you're playing subterfuge
for more accurate results and less bitching consult www.raidbots.com
strange python
raidbots tells me to play 2x SS 3x NP 1x DD
bleak spoke
then do it
if that's your highest ST sim then play it
assuming you're ST
if there's something you don't like about SS and you want to play MA, then don't do it
idk
strange python
well thats why i ask u guys for an advice if i can play another set of traits for all bod encounters, since Bod is not pure ST and i cant afford to reforge after every single boss
bleak spoke
SS with subterfuge is valid on all encounters
cobalt gyro
ya, or dd np traits
solemn meadow
subterfuge on jaina so you can garrote jaina and the barrels 
bleak spoke
oh my god real talk though, been playing 1 SS subt on jaina
and it's smoothed it out so much
timings are sooo much less awkward
cobalt gyro
and vanish > g'd her as she's about to jump away
bleak spoke
i'm still on prog too 😦
cobalt gyro
16% best
bleak spoke
we're at second barrel i think 39%? or something
we pushed really fast until people got blocked in narnia and died
strange python
sorry that i ask but whats "MA" for a trait, i tried to google it and look it up but i couldnt find any
bleak spoke
master assassin
strange python
thank you
cobalt gyro
wait what if i run 2x tradewinds
solemn meadow
Well we had to kinda reprogress p3
bleak spoke
16% is like 40 seconds into the burn innit
solemn meadow
since we did the new strat
cobalt gyro
for the M A S T E R Y burst
cobalt gyro
it would've been lower if our tank didn't hit expel harm 3x and get blocked instead of dying
cobalt gyro
i have the helm too
bleak spoke
tehre's a helm?
cobalt gyro
flashpowder
cobalt gyro
"new strat"?
solemn meadow
killing the elemental
cobalt gyro
seems not worth to me/us
bleak spoke
ttk tradewinds yikes
cobalt gyro
also massively increases the overal healing required and it almost has as much HP as jaina has left
vast forum
Kick isn't on global and doesn't cost anything 🤷
bleak spoke
^
bleak spoke
on mythic?
spice surge
Its a reasonable strat yeah
bleak spoke
you just hard burn?
spice surge
you kill ele before you interrupt jaina
solemn meadow
you BL on wall and then use the rest of BL to kill elemental
bleak spoke
oh
cobalt gyro
before the HP nerf it had about as much as she did
spice surge
Yeah but it got nerfed by 35%
cobalt gyro
but if you do it that way you deal with blocks too, no?
solemn meadow
8,7mil
bleak spoke
i play outlaw and gigablast?
solemn meadow
we learned tho that if you do that strat
the dps check gets harder in p3 idk why tho
cobalt gyro
i don't see how it changes much tho
bleak spoke
why does it get harder
spice surge
Because you cant cleave as much on jaina during intermission
bleak spoke
oh
spice surge
But you dont have to deal with heart of frost nor interrupts
solemn meadow
we had alot more wipes because we had her like at 7% when the orb hits
bleak spoke
and i suppose you don't really have a 2t to cleave off for resources
bleak spoke
yeah idk lots of classes get stuff off a second target
solemn meadow
idk where to use my cds correctly yet
bleak spoke
true when you can literally assign kicks by groups
spice surge
Its not the kicks thats the problem
bleak spoke
it's the hearts probs
cobalt gyro
definitely
solemn meadow
instead of ignoring all mechanics and just burning her
cobalt gyro
otherwise why would it split
bleak spoke
well yeah
but everything about this strat just sounds harder
unless people are giga pepega on the hearts
bleak spoke
FULL HELMET l0l
solemn meadow
why does it sound harder tho? you have less mechanics
bleak spoke
it sounds harder cuz you're gimping your dps
solemn meadow
well you probably have less deaths in p3 since nobody has to go outside with heart and recieve less healing
bleak spoke
eh
cobalt gyro
i mean you can't really go too far away
bleak spoke
that's user error innit
cobalt gyro
so if you're not getting heals ^
spice surge
Yes you can stand in the healing zones with heart
solemn meadow
you have a WA that tells u if you get targeted
spice surge
You still need to be close enough that you dont get frozen
solemn meadow
and you should get out once you see it because if you do not you will tick instantly
bleak spoke
how fast does it go off
cobalt gyro
imo it has a higher mechanical requirement with the trade off of requiring less dps
if it was my decision i'd wanna do the mechanical play
bleak spoke
^
solemn meadow
I mean we had some wipes because of interrupts
cobalt gyro
this is a case where you can do it 1 of 2 ways
but not every fight will have that option
solemn meadow
when melees couldnt interrupt because soaking orb or smth
bleak spoke
wiping cause of interrupts is prettty yikes
cobalt gyro
yes we have 1 ranged at least on every kick
cobalt gyro
you should
bleak spoke
in mythic? 
heavy skiff
A hunter hwo had to tank the other boss
Nono hero
But as full mele even hero is shit xD
bleak spoke
fair
solemn meadow
like everything in jaina till p3 is super ez
cobalt gyro
but nah, most kicks are missed because it feels like the ele fakes you out
"you're next" > casts heart, you kcik
lmao
spice surge
No
cobalt gyro
I dot it right as we break nathanos but i don't refresh after
so i get 2 sets of dots to pump into jaina
as in, regen from 2 sets*
bleak spoke
Even if it’s right before vendetta?
solemn meadow
when we did the normal strat we nearly killed the elemental sometimes
idk why we had so much dmg on it
bleak spoke
That’s a comp thing probs
bleak spoke
Isn’t the burn 2 minutes
spice surge
You gain between 75-85 energy from a full rupture
spice surge
So you have to not only spend 5 cp on applying it, you also have to spend on average 4 melee hits to keep up deadly
cobalt gyro
i'm pretty much literally doing
spice surge
If you need damage on them then its fine
If you're only doing it for energy then thats not really worth
cobalt gyro
kill wall > dot nathanos > dot add > kill nathanos > refresh on add > all into jaina
solemn meadow
does anyone know how much % this setbonus does for outlul? I think thats the only spec that can use it right?
bleak spoke
Alright
solemn meadow
bleak spoke
The stats on jaina ring is hawt
solemn meadow
like is it worth getting the set?
bleak spoke
On outlaw st yeah
cobalt gyro
only reason i'm refreshing as well is so i'm not doing nothing as i run back down the ramp
solemn meadow
only st?
bleak spoke
Mhm
cobalt gyro
yeah it doesn't cleave with bf
solemn meadow
ah damn
cobalt gyro
you know what does cleave with bf? black bruise memes
cobalt gyro
black bruise from icc
golden relic
what is good with black bruise, i never got the memo
cobalt gyro
proc on a weapon from icc as an offhand for outlaw in aoe
procs effectively non-stop in large pulls so you're constantly dealing 10% bonus shadow dmg
strange python
Hey guys, where I could see my logs on raid? It is possible to see my logs from yesterday somewhere? Thanks