assassination

[tribal marlin]

in fact it's the same question than "how many energy should I pool before TB"

[cobalt pelican]

yeah, if you expand the scenario past solely the tb window it'll work out basically the same

[tribal marlin]

if you pool 160+ you might have 1 more envenom in TB (at a cost of a emergency refresh of rupture after)

if you pool only 110+ you might not get that 3rd envenom

[spice surge]

The reason there is no clear number on how much to pool before tb is because you shouldnt really be pooling for tb

You should be pooling in general

If you're not overcapping energy or have a shortterm buff that will run out soon there is no need to cast and you lose nothing by waiting

[tribal marlin]

you do actually

because you lost EP/env uptime mean your dots and melee deal less damage

I mean maybe you win somewhere else

but you do loose something not casting

I guess it's just about "how much should I pool"

[spice surge]

Total EP and envenom uptime is almost completely irrelevant

What matters is the uptime when you cast your spells

If envenom is up when you cast mutilate you gain A LOT more damage than envenom being up for 2 extra seconds of melees

[tribal marlin]

I get it I think I just started a debate in a wrong way

the only real question I had is how much energy do I pool before using envenom and/or TB

so you say there is no pooling for TB because you pool for envenom anyway

so the question is, how much energy do I pool before envom

[spice surge]

As much as possible without losing rupture/garrote uptime

[tribal marlin]

APL says [145-energy.regen+poisoned_bleeds * 7%(2*spell_haste)]

but I dont get what this number might be

[spice surge]

Its like 125-150 depending on haste

Basicly a little bit bellow the cap

[cobalt pelican]

seems like it's just a safe number that's 'as high as possible while ensuring you won't ever cap in a globals time'

[spice surge]

^

But that doesnt mean you delay tb to get that much energy, since it has such a short cooldown you basicly never want to delay it

[tribal marlin]

yes ofc

[spice surge]

But you ideally dont want to have to refresh rupture/garrote inside it either

[tribal marlin]

it's just like a situation where you have 150 energy and TB comes in 2 sec.

you might overcap energy waiting 2 more sec no casting

[sullen hollow]

Anyone been on the PTR yet

And which neck powers are the better ones

[tropic ocean]

"it's just like a situation where you have 150 energy and TB comes in 2 sec.
you might overcap energy waiting 2 more sec no casting"

then you need to change your preplanning, and/or delay tb a little bit to put out an extra envenom

never having the situation that I have too much energy literally, only situations I have too much energy is when dealing with mechanics, e.g. getting avalanche
sin is pretty energy starved and has quite some amount of pooling/waiting in its gamepaly

[sullen hollow]

Agreed

alot of it comes to timing

proper pooling and tb timings.

[winter gale]

Is 20.5% alot of haste?

[rigid mango]

It's a good amount

[winter gale]

With 26% crit and 34 % mastery

[sullen hollow]

Yea thats pretty decent

but

Sim it

[winter gale]

I did

They want more haste :D

[rigid mango]

Aslong as top gear tells you it's best

Don

[sullen hollow]

yep

[winter gale]

They do

[rigid mango]

Don't* sim with stat weights

[winter gale]

With top gear I do

[sullen hollow]

^

[rigid mango]

Then ur all good

[winter gale]

And i then wear top gear :D

Thanks :)

27.300 dps

[rigid mango]

idk why u ask then

[sullen hollow]

I always sim top gear first

[rigid mango]

if u already simmed it

[sullen hollow]

then i sim stat weights after

[winter gale]

Cpuse I played with 16.5% haste

[rigid mango]

Stat weights are off

just sim every piece

it's more accurate taht way

[winter gale]

And i lost crit due to that

Lost crit to haste.

Its ok, ill keep it like this

[strange python]

Well I am sitting on only 18% crit. And that is my highest sim so. Just sim and you get your answer.

[rigid mango]

There comes a point where haste normally becomes worse than mastery

And mastery takes over as best stat

[winter gale]

Y

[sullen hollow]

everything also depends on your traits and trinkets

[rigid mango]

I mean

not really for ST

[winter gale]

Trinkets are awfull

[sullen hollow]

lots of things play in

[winter gale]

Gear is bis

[rigid mango]

Stats aren't really affected by trinks atm

[winter gale]

385 dice with socket and 410 lurker

[rigid mango]

Then ur trinks aren't that bad?

[winter gale]

On progress lurker is not that good if u ask me

Its hard

[sullen hollow]

pref dice+plum on jaina

yea

[winter gale]

Im on blockade

[sullen hollow]

play plum on blockade too if you have it

or glad vers trink

[strange python]

It is not that much damage. Just don't take the avoidable damage and you are fine lol

[winter gale]

I do

Well if I trigger it wheb needed and in that monent im not full its bit of a pain 😂

Healers dont like me, hahaha

[sullen hollow]

aha ye

[rigid mango]

I mean

if ur healers can't keep up w lurkers damage

your damage wont solve the issues you have

[sullen hollow]

i forexample dont use

lurker

on jaina

because its progress

and p3 gets hard

if i use lurker

im testing the new neck thingies on ptr atm

[spice surge]

!essence

[prisma monolith]

First research 8.2 Sin Essence notes Thank you Tisumi: https://tinyurl.com/y6ouut2o

[bleak spoke]

Why is lurkers bad on stormwall

[cobalt pelican]

during p3 there's like 200 trillion healer cds rolling if you can't keep 25ish seconds of lurkers up you're ded anyways

and it's likely better at 20 depending on ilvl of them anyways

[bleak spoke]

Just cloak the damage from the stuff going out

You take less damage than everyone else if you do that during the end of vendetta crunch for sure

[rigid mango]

Tbh for most examples if u die thanks to lurkers you'd eb dead anyways

[bleak spoke]

Only places it might be real problems is high m plus

[meager basalt]

ik this assass channel but did sub get pve buff too

or is it only pvp

[rigid mango]

literally

ask it there

LOL

[meager basalt]

lol sry

[rigid mango]

I don't get it

You ask something blatantly knowing this isn't the place

?

[meager basalt]

im scared of fuu

[solid nova]

Right

[meager basalt]

xD

[rigid mango]

It's also just buffs, go check wowhead?

[vestal wren]

subtlety only got buffed in pvp

and there is nothing to be scared off 😛

[meager basalt]

yeah i read it in the sub channel and ik brotha im meme'in

[agile elk]

do rogue poisons benefit from dh magic debuff or monk physical debuff?

[meager basalt]

monky

[rigid mango]

nah

dh

[agile elk]

ty

o

[meager basalt]

fml

[rigid mango]

poison dmg is from dh

[late plinth]

how do you guys handle explosives? or do you just let a better spec handle it?

[zenith gust]

guys, i'm back to raiding after 2 months of only doing m+... what traits should i be wearing? is master assassin like mandatory to do max damage? never played master assasin :/ and is bbi mandatory for MA build?

[steep obsidian]

well like even just auto attacking the explosives can help while you fokking or whatever but sin is never going to be as good at them as outlaw, a dh or even some tanks

[rigid mango]

@zenith gust Depends where you're at

[zenith gust]

blockade

mythic

[rigid mango]

Yah then MA will be better

For MA you want 3 DD and then alteast 1 NP

last 2 traits can be w/ever, patchwerk sims will tell you what's best

Normally more NP's, bbi or ttk are good

(ttk if you've got ceph)

[zenith gust]

so 3xDD + 1 NP + 1 TTK + 1 TC would be fine i guess

[rigid mango]

It's aight

[prisma carbon]

Yep. That’s what I’m running til I get gorak tul shoulders

[rigid mango]

TTK isn't that good

I mean, it's good, but there is better

Idk what ur azerite is so

[zenith gust]

i have no BBi, and cant have more NP if i want ot have 3xDD so... i think that's the best set i can wear right now

[rigid mango]

yah it is

ig

The things that change with MA are in the guide in the pins

[zenith gust]

cool i'll take a look

thx

i'm simming like 26+k on 5min patchwerk fight, is that too shitty?

[rigid mango]

Depends what ur ilvl is

but nah

it's good

[zenith gust]

414

[rigid mango]

yah then it's fine, you just don't ahve the best azerite and not enoughs sockets 😄

[zenith gust]

6 sockets, 7 if i use the 400 socketed harlans dice instead of my 410 unsocketed harlans

havent like simmed with MA tho

[rigid mango]

Would've honestly thought socketed harlands would be better but idk

maybe 10 ilvl is good enough for harlans effect

🤷

[tacit plover]

stat prio for assasi?

[heavy skiff]

I would go with soket one

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

[tacit plover]

yeah just saw pinned sorry mb guys

[rigid mango]

I'd go with the one that sims highest

😃

[zenith gust]

410 was simmming better for outlaw for m+, will simm that later for assa

[heavy skiff]

But a 400 one with soket gets u better logs xD

[sullen pagoda]

what sims the best for ST use that

blockades mythic is basically a ST fight

[inland path]

what is everyone running for mythic cabal? cant decide traits myself. simmed a shit ton of diff variants, but i suspect x3 NP is actually good vs what it is actually simming since perhaps it isnt taking into account when you use vendetta during key moments (start with bl 9 stacks etc)

[spice surge]

SS is probably the best trait for that fight

Scent is also good, but mostly people have just been using their ST setups and subterfuge from what i've seen

Although having 2 or more resounding protection is probably also very good since you can survive the doubts without needing additional attention

[zenith gust]

@rigid mango i think this is the best it gets for me https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dnvHvQKZV4aeUPoM4hGESV

[brave gyro]

So... I did CoS before raid just now

[heavy skiff]

Fuck u xD

[rigid mango]

Yeah think that's pretty good @zenith gust

[brave gyro]

@heavy skiff

[rigid mango]

if you get a goraks shoulders you have BiS azerite, if not you can just hope for dd np shoulders and you'll be fine

[dark crag]

Next season i get goraks for sure

[quasi pewter]

same

first gamble

[real bay]

that was my first but after its been shit

[tribal marlin]

haste > crit/mast > versa

I'll run 2dd 2ss 2np for cabal because guild asked me to take Resounding

😦 could run 3ss

[wide hedge]

the moment 3x double dose does more dmg than mutilate itself

pepega

[royal lantern]

well, the proc is poison dmg, wich is boosted by mastery, mulitate itself is physical

[toxic burrow]

A friend cleared Heroic Restless Cabal with her guild and told our guild that her's did it without having people step into Dark Herald to get Promises of Power. Said that people getting that debuff is not worth it, that we can do so much more DPS without it, and that we have to just do the fight without it. What...

[distant lava]

i mean for heroic mode who cares

you just stomp the boss dmg increase or not

[ionic dome]

Is Tempest the move this week.?

Or still Poison Bomb.?

[rigid mango]

Depends on ur comp

and what key levels

[ionic dome]

DH always with me.

Im jsut still trying to get the AoE rotation down and can’t figure out how to get good AoE on reaping or fat AoE packs.

[toxic burrow]

Eh. We're having difficulties clearing it on heroic, and most our ranged DPS are pulling shit numbers. So it's not a stomp for us.

[rigid mango]

I mean

Idk what ur traits are

[sick cradle]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[woven summit]

Are the legs from CoS worth it?

Has anyone simmed?

[vestal wren]

they are good, but it comes down to itemlvl

[woven summit]

405 ilvl

heroic quality

[vestal wren]

how did they sim compred to the piec you use?

[woven summit]

I use legs with mastery and crit 410 ilvl

haven't simmed yet

the normal ones simmed like slightly lower

got the normal ones

guess the heroic ones are an upgrade

[vestal wren]

i assume they probably are about equal or slightly stronger

sim will tell you

[woven summit]

yeah will sim it

to know whether I should bother PUG that shit

thanks

just a 0.9% upgrade

fuck that shit

the trinket is quite an uprade

but a double edged sword

CoS items suck

[rigid mango]

???

You litearlly said it was bette

r

no?

The trinket is Bis

by a bit

[tawny shell]

so is anyone running the opulance trank trinket for cabal prog?

[woven summit]

it's better by 0.9%

is that worth pugging?

and wiping

[rigid mango]

It's worth the trinket

[woven summit]

and losing brain cells

ah yeah the trinket

[rigid mango]

It's quite the trinket

And the feet, in the right situation

[woven summit]

just give me normal items mna

stats

and that's it

fucking double edged swords

[rigid mango]

I guess

flavour items that are also GOOD

aren't good enough

for some people

[spice surge]

The trinket is barrely a double edge sword if you cancel it after 20s

[woven summit]

yeah read I can make a macro to cancel the aura

nice

I take it back

@rigid mango Sorry for the @ but in what particular situation is the feet useful?

[tropic ocean]

1st boss bod

or any boss where you can avoid dmg

[rigid mango]

litearlly any boss with damage that isn't counted towards removing the stacks

conclave for example 0 things remove it

iirc it's worth about 3 sockets worth of stats

[woven summit]

ah I see, thanks

[rigid mango]

so technically they can be really good, depends on the fight

[woven summit]

yeah It's good to have them

Don't know how useful they will be when 8.2 hits but they sure worth it now

[rigid mango]

None of it'll probs be good past hc prog

so

[gleaming crater]

If you had to use between NP or DD for M+, what is best to pick?

[tropic ocean]

np

[lost horizon]

just one stacks? probably np

[tropic ocean]

i'd take for boss burst

[lost horizon]

since you can technically get some value out of it on trash where DD is just ass

[gleaming crater]

Yeah just 1 stack. Got the schoulders of Jadefire on Mythic for Ecoing Blades

[lost horizon]

doesn't JFM shoulders have TC as well?

or does that overlap with EB?

[gleaming crater]

It does overlap with EB yeah..

[lost horizon]

bummer

[nocturne gate]

outside dd/np inside eb/tc

[lost horizon]

iirc the rasta shoulders are decent, EB+SS i think

[gleaming crater]

All my Assa azerite pieces suck tbh.. Can only play 1x EB

and since I don't want to reforge everytime I have to stuck to outlaw atm..

[tropic ocean]

if you are unlucky with m+

opulence helm conclave chest and rasta shoulder

is ok

for m+

[gleaming crater]

I got opu helm on mythic, and the other 2 already farming for 3 weeks

Was considering buying maybe a 400 piece and hope for some luck

How much ilvl is it worth to go down for perfect traits?

[tropic ocean]

it is very dependant on 3rd trait too

but if you can replace dd np with ss/ttk/eb its probably worth to take 400 over 415

[gleaming crater]

what are good 3rd traits?

[tropic ocean]

overwhelming power

heed my call

(for m+)

[spice surge]

Unstable is for m+

Heed is almost purely ST

Beeecause the aoe is minor

[bright quartz]

it sims better for me to play with seductive power instead of shrouded suffocation

[tropic ocean]

well hmc sims better for me

but i have 36% crit with m+ gear so that might be the issue

[muted jacinth]

dont you always take damage on champions tho

[woven summit]

I simmed the 410 trinket from CoD it does 0.6% more dps for me

expected more but it's alright

Heed is almost purely ST? Glad I read that, I used heed thought it's more aoe lol

[tropic ocean]

it has good uptime on champions

almost 90%

[bleak spoke]

heed probably also sims good cuz it always hits all targets in sims i'm pretty sure

when the aoe's actually fucking tiny

[weak bone]

Why are leggos still in pins?

[meager nebula]

because they are still useful for leveling purposes

[pseudo burrow]

Any assa rogues who theorized best azerite traits for Uunat mythic prog?

[visual quartz]

I rarely take Heed for anything now. over an entire M+ dungeon, tried it on a raid night as well over a full clear and it did like sub 100k dmg out of like 60-100mil

[dark crag]

It comes down to what you have. Generaly you want op

[stable pine]

Thought Heed is op in M+?

[cobalt gyro]

Best azerite traits are rolling a warlock for uunat

[civic palm]

lol

[golden relic]

what is there to theorize

u go full ST blast cuz thats what you prob are there for if you are lucky to be in

[pseudo burrow]

I just mean that with the adds, Idk if scent maybe give you mroe ST output

I tried full ST blast and playing 2x scent and 2x ttk, but maybe someone had some more input

[eager haven]

I went full ST, yielded fairly well results for myself

For heroic >.>

[zinc gust]

Anyone give best aoe rotation for mythic+ reaping ?

Fine 3/4 target

[hollow stone]

Im not working on uunat at all so keep that in mind. But wouldnt ttk and sob be counterintuitive? If youre rupting more for sob, your enving less for ttk

[old knot]

if i don't have ss azerite, what do i do after opener garrote falls off and i vanish? just garrote->mut->finisher off of vanish?

or garrote garrote mut finisher?

oops, i was supposed to use MA

[tribal marlin]

I'm not sure you will be able to substantially win ST damage through SoB on M Uu'nat, they should be tanked away from the boss and you might issue moving toward theim because of shit on the ground/lazer/etc... I'd go full ST

[coarse plank]

Ummmmmmmm

So Sorry if this has been asked

But is Crimson Tempest a wise pick this week? Due to how much AoE there is

[tribal marlin]

For me CT is always a wise pick in m+

gameplay is boring without it :3

[dark crag]

!affix

[prisma monolith]

Affixes: Fortified - Teeming - Explosive - Reaping

[tribal marlin]

xD no seriously Poison Bomb suffer the exact same issue than in Legion where the mobs goes 1y outside of it and you fuck'd

[dark crag]

Explosive the annoying affix

[tribal marlin]

outlaw week :3

shit all weeks are outlaw's week theese day ..

[dark crag]

It's outlow

[rain frigate]

YO

im new to sin only played outlaw pretty high level what weapon in chants do i use for sin ?

i raid in like 5 mins reforging and shit

rn

[harsh sphinx]

deadly/x sim the other

[rain frigate]

prog on mythic mekka

okok

ty lots

[harsh sphinx]

o for raid

id sim all of them, thought you said M+ sry

[rain frigate]

no worries

[dark crag]

Sim a combo of deadly, quick and master

Most likely quick+x

[tribal marlin]

take Quick and the cheapest one

doesn't really matter, I prefer Crit for more 4cp mutilate but mastery/crit sim same for me

[dark crag]

I use crit+haste, because i don't care when mastery+haste sims a itsy bitsy tiny bit better

[coarse plank]

That was my next question lol. I don’t like Outlaw, but is that the move this week for keys

[dark crag]

You lose nothing when you focus orbs this week as outlaw

Sub and assa sacrifice their finisher or aoe dmg if they have to do orbs

[coarse plank]

Hmm. Intriguing. Thank you

[dark crag]

Outlaw flurries from orbs to all other mobs

[woeful carbon]

are there any of the azerite traits in the gemhide, Self reliance etc slot i should always pick?

[lone junco]

I get prydaz first. some people like the sprint trait, but the radius is small.

@Ongbak#2648 gone too soon.

[marble hemlock]

@woeful carbon for raiding, youd usually prefer resounding protection and/or impassive visage

for m+, footpad is nice for some shroudskips, and vampiric speed is lowkey the best defensive trait for anything other than bosses (where resounding protection is just straightup the best)

[cobalt gyro]

Vampiric is nuts with reaping existing

[marble hemlock]

ye

even without reaping

getting a 50k heal after killing 5 shitty low-hp mobs or as youre finishing up a pack

is huge

means youre full hp before the bursting starts ticking

[cobalt gyro]

My main m+ set has 2 of those and a resounding

[marble hemlock]

or just tops of your health to give the healer more room to heal other players

ye

you usually get like

2-4mil heal off of vamp speed

which is pretty great

[lone junco]

I love vamp for M+. in beta/ptr I saw that it could crit, on zone wide kills, for 30% of my hps, I lolled pretty good.

was running back from a death in M+, and group was going on without me. Heal HEal HEAL

[ruby idol]

When your group runs vamp speed, you become the healer in tol dagor cannon section :)

[marble hemlock]

😄

well, depends

on where you aim the cannon at

you can also become the boss that needs to be killed

[ruby idol]

Hahaha

[civic palm]

lol

[ruby idol]

I tried to basically use reaping mobs to heal bursting stacks we got from the real mobs the week we had bursting in tol

Was super fun

[marble hemlock]

ye

id still love if RP wouldnt be as required for some dungeons

well, mostly just freehold

[ruby idol]

Imagine if you could gear swap

Maybe thatll be a new feature in 8.2

Im sure someones thought of that

[lethal heart]

gearswapping

@marble hemlock

[ruby idol]

Assa would be so nuts with it

[lethal heart]

too nuts

but i guess

[ruby idol]

Give me

[lethal heart]

they should just lock your azerite

but being able to change trinkets/secondaries

would already be quite big

[ruby idol]

Man fluidly swapping between dd/np, ttk, and eb/ss sets would be so fun

[marble hemlock]

ye

imagine being able to play

full crit/versa gear for aoe

and then swap haste/mastery for giga ST

with dd/np

would be way too good 😄

[tribal marlin]

going like 15% versa for FH 2nd Boss xD

then switching back to normal gear

[cobalt gyro]

tbh some of the dungeons on high keys feel like they were designed around gear swapping

sky cap'n is absolutely insane if you don't spec for a lot of survivability

[lethal heart]

should be changed

long time agou

base damage is just too high

[marble hemlock]

i also still dont uinderstand why dungeon abilities

have a min-max range

[coarse quartz]

for M jaina is there a kick macro?

like [target=Jaina's....]

[nimble tartan]

/tar jaina's tide elemental
/cast Kick
/targetlasttarget```

[cobalt gyro]

/cast [target=focus, exists, harm, nodead] Kick; Kick

is the one i use, kicks focus target if there is one (so just set elemental to focus when it's out)

[coarse quartz]

ty omr clutch macro

[mental fiber]

you can just @boss2 kick for the ele

doesnt switch your target

[surreal patio]

Is it more important to pool energy for TB window or using energy to keep EP and envenom buff uptime?

[tribal marlin]

Use TB on CD and pool before 120ish energy before using envenom outside of TB

if you do so you'll never had to worrie about energy during TB

[surreal patio]

hmm thanks ill give that a try

[tribal marlin]

basically you do Pool to 120 -> Evenom -> 2xMut -> pool to 120

and during TB/Vandetta you do not pool ofc

[surreal patio]

gotcha thanks ill try that out tonight

[strange python]

What is RP?

[lethal python]

so a lot of ppl from my m+ runs are telling me I should be using ss. Can anyone explain how ss is beneficial when a tank will chain pull pack to pack all the way up to and often including a boss? Even with using vanish on cd you would only benefit from ss once every 2 minutes?

[cold horizon]

I think you are confusing subterfuge with SS, you are still getting a damage buff out of SS when not coming from stealth

[lethal python]

"Garrote cast from Stealth generates 2 addition combo points and deals x additional damage every 2 sec for 18 sec."
the damage component is regardless of stealth?

I think I've misunderstood the toot tip

tool even

[dull compass]

Tell them not to chainpull. From my experience, you normally have a small 1s-2s window to restealth

[lethal python]

I do, but they don't listen. Pugs ..

[dull compass]

Indeed. 🙄

[lethal python]

thanks for your help

I'll give some ss a try

[steep obsidian]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398435340288010/573508144261627904/unknown.png lol what

mmm 2 point finishers gon be fun

[woeful carbon]

wtf

[solid venture]

i think blizz hasn't really thought that one through

imagine playing arcane mage on that fight

LUL

[spice surge]

Just dont play arcane? 🤔

[grizzled jay]

Just don't play basically any class

[spice surge]

Assa can handle it fairly decently

Especially if detection works

[rigid mango]

I mean muti spam will be a decent amount

Gonna hurt tho

[distant lava]

Its like 10k dmg every 3 gcd at worst

Imagine that outlaw can cast 6 SS in a row without finishing

[azure basalt]

imagine resto druid lol

if it applies to healing

[spice surge]

Imagine ww monks... Hold up

[azure basalt]

rerolling

im honestly kind of curious how well that will effect anything

where was that even found?

[spice surge]

Dungeon journal

[azure basalt]

oh

[distant lava]

Wait does it do 10k to her and to you ?

[azure basalt]

I'm assuming only to you

[spice surge]

Yes

[azure basalt]

oh wait

[distant lava]

Yes to me or him ?

[spice surge]

Theres two spells in that screenshot

[azure basalt]

pretty sure to you

[spice surge]

Both

[distant lava]

Arcane mage meta

[spice surge]

I think, but not sure

Otherwise there wouldnt be two spells

[azure basalt]

yeah looks like both

[distant lava]

Play moonkin and just spam moonfire

[azure basalt]

and bounce around the room

just jump and spam

[strange python]

Where I can see my logs on raids?

[modest jasper]

ohm.

When someone logged on the link they probably posted somewhere.

Else you can try to go to warcraftlogs.com and search for your char if you don't have a link.

Maybe someone uploaded logs that you can look into.

[spice surge]

And/or you can log yourself and then upload them (warcraftlogs has a guide on howto)

[strange python]

Thanks @modest jasper

[royal lantern]

@steep obsidian people really overreact a bit too that mechanic, we dont know if it is active the entire fight, and 11k dmg is really nothing, and sin rogue is not that spammy too, you use 2x mulitate but thats it, more then enough time too get ''healed''up (if you even need healing, 11k is so low, normal hp reg and leeching poison alone can sustain it)

yes, some other classes are more affected by that like mage in general, but like i said, idk if it will be active the entire fight(wich i doubt) or if it is more like a normal fight phase/intermission with adds or something

[modest jasper]

tbh I think it will be combined with the other mechanics and an extra action bar.

[royal lantern]

well, yeha ofc, but when i read stuff like ''omg rip class XYZ use 4skills and dead!!!!!111!!!!'' im not sure if people realise how much dmg 11k actually is

and we will have more hp at that point too

[distant lava]

@royal lantern that will never be

only 10k dmg on mythic

[steep obsidian]

i just thought ti was kinda funny yeah

and what that guy just said

[meager nebula]

depending on how long the decrees last for

i don't think it will have a major impact regardless

[real bay]

pointless to draw any conclusions this early

[royal lantern]

the decrees are gonna be random?

[distant lava]

and as we said for all classes it's easy to weave if you really have to to survive

[royal lantern]

if yes, jesus, i dont want yet another fight where you can have a hard time cus of bad luck....

[distant lava]

weave in the FoK / Shurikenstorm / pistol shot

[royal lantern]

nah

feint is finaly usefull again!

[meager nebula]

nah i reckon they'll be a set rotation

[distant lava]

except feint has a 15 second cd

[royal lantern]

lines up perfect with the downtime melee dps will have at that fight 👌

[steep obsidian]

i rmember that trait where you had to use like 3 different ablities to proc it

had it for a bit

and evasion worked to proc it

[true ingot]

Meticulous planning.

[strange python]

Its okey to go Crimson Tempest + single target traits this week?

[marble hemlock]

what do you mean with "single target" traits?

dd/np? then no, you dont want to ever play those

[merry zinc]

is outlaw that much better this week for explosive?

[cosmic pier]

yes

[marble hemlock]

for this week its usually just a question of whether or not youre on explo duty

[rigid mango]

Just play with a dh/outlaw/monk

And ur fine

[marble hemlock]

assa can take of them just fine without dropping that much dps even

but outlaw is obviously better

assa needs help if a ton of orbs spawn early on

[pseudo hamlet]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[cosmic pier]

assa is jus straight up bad at killing orbs, outlaw is the much better choice

also the fact the blade flurry cleaves off orbs means you dont sacrifice much damage either

[old summit]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kYqNYCd35Q1Q523Hxiy84W this trinket sims so good but killing my hp on mythic stormwall blockade should i cancel debuff after opener?

[pseudo hamlet]

Guys, I was wondering... What's the best Azerite traits for both raid/M+(cba changing gear). It's 3xDD, 2xTC and 1xNP?
Because it's seem that in one-target: 3xNP, 3xDD
In AoE: 3xSS and 3xEB?

[cosmic pier]

theres is no good setup for both

if you want that, play outlaw

[pseudo hamlet]

Okay then. What about the things I wrote above? I meant For 1-target: 3xDD and 3xNP, and for AoE: 3xSS + 3xEB.
They're the highest simming traits on the site for one and multiple targets.

[cosmic pier]

yes, but there isnt one azerite build you can play in both

[pseudo hamlet]

Sure thing, thanks. Will try to get some pieces then.

[strange python]

@marble hemlock I dont want to play never NP and DD? Why? I am running SS+NP

[marble hemlock]

because NP is only helpful on bosses, the damage it does on trash is absolutely negligible and you dont need the energy on trash either

so youre basically running a trait that is useless in ~70% of the dungeon, just for an incredibly minor dps gain on bosses

since we dont run high haste in m+ NP isnt as big on singletarget either

so usually you'd be better off running something else instead

gearing for m+ is mostly a tradeoff of singletarget vs cleave vs aoe, and NP/DD are only slight increases for singletarget over traits like ttk or ss, and they come at an opportunity cost in the other departments

i.e. saving 20sec on a boss isnt worth losing 10sec on every trashpack due to not running EB

[spice surge]

If only gearswaps was a thing in m+ again, assa would be busted

PepeHands

[cosmic pier]

dont blue ball me like that

legion gear swapping with leggos was so good

[marble hemlock]

if gearswap was a thing, assa would be absolutely insane

[cosmic pier]

also let you deal with cooked boss with prydaz

can we just scrap bfa and do legion again

kingsbane PepeHands

[marble hemlock]

i mean, kingsbane wasnt really an interesting ability tho 😄

theoretically, yes, but in practicality it was boring

[cosmic pier]

"fuck i didn't proc poison bomb" probably my most said line in legion dungeons

[strange python]

@marble hemlock Understood, sadly my 390-405-405 azerite pieces doesn't have the EB trait

I am running this

[cosmic pier]

got an SoB? sob + CT would be an """ok""" aoe build until you get a EB

[marble hemlock]

so, right now the 3 "t1" traits that are seeing a lot of play in keys are ttk, ss, and eb

[cosmic pier]

or just play outlaw 4Head

[marble hemlock]

eb for the aoe, ttk for prio/st and ss for cleave/st (although its still very nice on aoe if the pulls arent too big)

then theres some others that are decent, like blightborne or swirling sands

tc too

[strange python]

I quit Outlaw 2 days ago LUL @cosmic pier

[marble hemlock]

scent of blood is kinda in between there, its decent for aoe/prio, but it sucks for singletarget

so depending on what azerite traits you have available

you just take whatever part of the dungeon you wanna focus on, and pick your traits accordingly

[cosmic pier]

quitting the most OP spec in m+ OMEGALUL

[strange python]

My cat plays Outlaw better than me.. she does 1-2-3-4 EZ

[cosmic pier]

I’ve tried for so long to make assa work in m+, just gave up and played outlaw

[solid venture]

assuming sin rotation is any different

[real bay]

it works lol

[marble hemlock]

assa is more than viable for m+

[cosmic pier]

At the top end though, I’m doing 22s

Assa is a sandbag because you can chain pull as well

[marble hemlock]

so?

assa gets better the higher the key goes

UR23

dont see assa being a "sandbag"

chainpulls arent as bad for us as you might think at first, as long as they are done properly

since it allows us to already have bleeds up for sustain when we chainpull, we dont have to ramp up at all once the new mobs come in

the only chainpulls that are bad, are the ones where the original pack is basically already dead

but having 2-3mobs at ~50% and chaining more into it, is something we can use to our advantage

[cosmic pier]

What traits you running in the UR, 3 eb 2 ttk 1 ss ?

[marble hemlock]

2eb 2ttk 2ss

the high overall mostly comes from running with DH+ele, which both arent all that great for reaping so i do a lot more reaping damage than is "needed"

so if youre running with another rogue whos outlaw for example

[cosmic pier]

What does your breakdown look like for reaping vs normal trash?

[marble hemlock]

he usually takes most of that

reaping i generally dont multidot much at all

maybe 2 garrotes on tormented/lostsouls, then spam fok and snipe low-hp risen souls with ruptures to refill energy

[cosmic pier]

I mean like how much of that overall is reaping pad?

Because I could fucking bukake reaping as assa pretty easy if it stayed alive

[distant lava]

sounds like

you are making up excuses

🤷

[marble hemlock]

well, it depends on reaping really

[cosmic pier]

I’m just curious to see what works for other people

[marble hemlock]

if its all risen souls, i.e. around cragmaw, you just go full aoe because thats what you need

if its reaping+trash with same hp, its the same

if its reaping+bloodseeker for example, i just fok->env on the bloodseeker at all times

[cosmic pier]

I play outlaw with dh spriest, war and Druid

[marble hemlock]

so every reaping is a bit different. reaping with matron-lostsoul? prio into that lost

[cosmic pier]

So we can all aoe pretty well

[marble hemlock]

well, if youre concerned about assa only looking good due to reaping pad, thats literally what outlaw does every single key

its still strong on the other parts of course, but the only reason its high up on the meters is that it pads better on reaping than most other classes/specs

[bronze kelp]

big plus of assa is that you are not depended on any cooldowns to do sustained high trash dmg

[marble hemlock]

what i like the most, especially with the trait-setup im running, is that at any moment i can go from full aoe-spam into prio damage

[bronze kelp]

yep, thats one thing i learned from your "advices" here in discord

playing with the 2 2 2 trait setup let us be highly flexible

[ember saddle]

What traits?

[bronze kelp]

2 EB 2 SS 2 TTK

[marble hemlock]

gonna switch to 2ttk 2ss 1eb 1bbi now that i finally got goraktuls 😄

[bronze kelp]

i just swapped to 3 eb 2 ss 1 ttk, cause my chest rolled blighted tribe instead of getting a cephalo

for tyrannical keys i go for my 405 cephalo

[marble hemlock]

😄

[bronze kelp]

to much bad luck on rolling gear, 3 times gold spaulders 2 times spymasters 2 times slithering loa ^^

[marble hemlock]

ye, if i wanna go pad i still play 3ss3eb

but thats really only good in freehold i think

and even then, on tyrannical, i prefer ttk

[bronze kelp]

also on underrot i had good pad results with 3 eb 3 ss

[rose violet]

Have you given up on CT?

[bronze kelp]

ct is only good for pad dmg and has no use in ST

on huge pulls u also rather spend your energy on fok then on CT

i guess if CT bleed would count to our energy reg bleeds, that would be funny (but also OP)

[marble hemlock]

as long as i run ttk, im not playing ct

i tried it a bit, and having to juggle between maintaining CT and then still getting good prio with TB burst windows on trash is a nightmare, and id almost get the same result anyway by just playing PB

[bronze kelp]

yeah, the synergies from TTK with TB and PB are very good

[marble hemlock]

PB does ~6% for me overall, theres only a handful of dungeons whered id get >10% on CT, and when comparing those numbers you still gotta keep in mind that its not just a direct talent comparison, but that using CT also means less envenoms/ruptures

so adding one or two % from additional envenoms, theres almost no difference anymore on aoe

[rose violet]

Thought that ct might be good for freehold

[marble hemlock]

and with the scaling on EB, if we'd really want to go full out aoe, we want to overcap CP and just spam FoK anyway

ye, i thought so too

but the reality just doesnt look as enticing anymore

[merry zinc]

i got told assa is very bad for this week and i can somehow understand it with explosive but they told me outlaw would be better in almost every week. thought at high keys with the right trait combs assa is comparable to outlaw or can even be better

[bronze kelp]

assa is not very bad for this week

assa is just not that good for orbs as outlaw is

but you are not the only class that does orb duty

[merry zinc]

yeah we couldnt pull that big cuz orb management was somewhat tricky

[lament dove]

you can abuse orbs with rupture for energy

[tropic ocean]

^thats not an assasination problem but a group problem

[merry zinc]

maybe ppl are just used to rogues being outlaw, i dont know

[bronze kelp]

in my group i got this week a dh and an outlaw + me as assa, so I dont have to care for orbs

[marble hemlock]

@lament dove exactly

if people dont kill explo insta every time

you can actually play around explosive to boost your aoe potential

[merry zinc]

i'm mostly running pugs, so that may be the problem..^^

[tropic ocean]

when i tank i do like 40-60% orb dmg throughout the dungeon

so healer and 3 dps can take care of rest

[marble hemlock]

by running less ruptures on a pack-to-pack basis for sustain, just snipe explos with rupture and use more GCDs on fok instead of rupturing trash

[bronze kelp]

explosive on pugs is always a problem

[rose violet]

@marble hemlock I see you running only 1 SS from time to time is it because it’s not the kind of damage you need or so you can save vanish for utility stuff

[merry zinc]

just thinking about getting outlaw as second spec but not sure its worth the hussle or if i got the right traits for it

[tropic ocean]

outlaw traits are pretty straight forward you can find the recommendations in outlaw channel pins i htink

think*

[marble hemlock]

both really

i like to hold vanish for utility, not as a dps cd, in certain dungeons

[merry zinc]

okay, i gonna take a look. guess its not much harder to play than assa?

[marble hemlock]

and SS requires a decent number of restealths, but i usually run with tanks that chainpull a lot

so i prefer not to run SS at all

[tropic ocean]

@merry zinc i wouldnt say harder, it has more apm tough

though*

so if thats challenging for you, its harder

[marble hemlock]

outlaw is very straight forward

[rose violet]

Yea makes sense

[merry zinc]

i last played outlaw at the start of legion, didnt had that much problems but some things changed i think

[marble hemlock]

@solar rose this guy actually made an amazing outlaw m+ guide, so you should check it out

[merry zinc]

lets see

[bronze kelp]

outlaw is a faster spec then assa, but the rota is not thaaat hard

[merry zinc]

where can i find the guide? is it the ravenholdt pinned one on outlaw channel?

[tropic ocean]

on wowhead

[solid nova]

Its also pinned in the outlaw channel

[merry zinc]

alright, thank you guys!

[rose violet]

Outlaw is much more fun when mfd is a viable option

[vestal wren]

mfd is a viable option

it even sims #1 in dungeon slice

[rose violet]

Not really that viable if you’re a human being

[vestal wren]

outlaw and sin can play it

ofc there is no reason to play it given it is a lot of effort for maybe low benefit

[left abyss]

is the nothing personal trait dmg effected by mastery

[real bay]

yes

take off a mastery piece and see tooltip

[primal gazelle]

You only gain energy off explosives if your poisons are applied btw

So technically you could apply rupture to it, and it dies before any of your poisons proc and you get nothing

[rose violet]

You get energy back if your target dies

[real bay]

yeah dead gives energy regardless

[modest jasper]

so, quick question because it seems I fk that up regularly:
I don't want to refresh Rupture in TB window... but how do I actually play that out?

Like for me every 2nd or 3rd TB window I am basically in the position that I need to refresh rupture.

But if I refresh it before the TB I lose out on Pandemic

[tropic ocean]

afaik you can also refresh rupture with 3 cp

so it should work out that you don't have to refresh during tb

alterantively delay tb a little bit

[modest jasper]

mhm.

like even the apl does not really seem to have any specific handling for that

So I don't know if I am just too dumb that I kinda feel like I am in that position way too often

[tropic ocean]

I don't really encounter this problem besides when I get random walking mechanic

it is not stationary though, so depending on what happens it can happen, and sometimes its also worth to redot even if you are over pandemic when you know that you wont be able to redot in next x seconds

or to hold tb in similar case

[modest jasper]

Mhm.

Fair I guess

Like atm I only refresh at 4+ in pandemic window

Mhm.

I'll try to figure it out 😄

[hollow stone]

If you delay tb, which i dont recommend, dont delay it anymore than (confirmation on this amount of time) 15 sec total over the fight or you miss out on a tb window

Refreshing in tb window is better than letting them fall. Not sure on the dps diff between refreshing earlier than pand range

3cp rupts are ok if you need yo

To

[modest jasper]

I did a bit of dummy now

And I think I kinda found my problem, I was refreshing Rupture in TB window even if it only ran out after the TB window ended.

So basically I now don't refresh rupture if it won't run out until after TB

[hollow stone]

Thats the trick

Use the full pand window and yea, what you said, it will work out

[hasty brook]

Guys have any tricks or tip as a rogue or in general when doing EXPLOSIVE . I can tab to them usually easily but at times it becomes a bit much depending on pull size. I end up barely doing dmg on mobs and just focusing that

[rigid mango]

Get someone else to do it

There are very meta classes that are, frankly better at doing it

[hasty brook]

like who? I figured rogue had the quick melee burst to

[rigid mango]

Outlaw, dh, monk

All are better at doing it

Sin isn't THAT bad, but it's easier to let someone who's got a super easy time doing it instead of you, if you're struggeling

[harsh sphinx]

It's like playing wacka a mole with your cursor tab or click fast

When you have no ruptures out and they are spawning like crazy feelsbad

[rigid mango]

not having ruptures out

[harsh sphinx]

Shit happens

[crude summit]

what trinkets do yall use for m+

[rigid mango]

plume dice

lurkers

mekka trink

Spyglass

[crude summit]

aight thanks

is this guide up to date btw

[rigid mango]

"this"?

The ravenholdt one?

yes

[crude summit]

the sin guide on ravenholdt

okey thanks my dude

[rigid mango]

That, and the one on wowhead

both very good sources for info

[crude summit]

oh good

i learned the bad way that most websites suck and how i've been gearing myself very wrong

icy-veins, noxxic, etc

[raven depot]

I feel ya.

[rigid mango]

Yah but those are very gooid

[crude summit]

i prefer to do mythics and rn all my gear is pretty much about haste and crit, pretty sad

aight thanks

[rigid mango]

az is worth more

[raven depot]

While we're on the topic. It says in the rh guide that MA opener is vanish>tb>mutilate>envenom? However wowanylzer is telling me that I'm not maximizing my MA usage. Any ideas ?

[rigid mango]

Ignore wowanalyzer

not properly supported for assa

Ravenholdt is correct.

[raven depot]

Oh, that sucks. Well, I suppose I'm doing it right then.

[rigid mango]

Wowanalyzer is only good for super basic shit

mostly ignore the stuff it says

[raven depot]

Yeah, I basically only use it to check uptimes etc.

Was mostly confused as for why it said I only got 50% something on my MA usage. Got a little concerned hehe

[rigid mango]

You might still've fucked it up

but the opener on ravenholdt is the best one

Well, arguably so, but it's still the most consistant one

[raven depot]

Ah, I mean. During the MA I did get out the right abilities according to the guide at least. So I guess it would be correct.

[rigid mango]

Then yeah, it should be correct

[tropic ocean]

@hasty brook
https://prnt.sc/nk2mfg

diese gut

[tribal marlin]

tbh I think you don't lose much as long as you do 3 ability during MA buff

some even argue that Mut envenom Mut is ok because it does give crit ton DD procs

[hollow stone]

*if dd procs

[tropic ocean]

personally I wouldn't do 2 mutilate in tb window

cuz i will just tilt if it doesnt crit

[hollow stone]

Agreed

[bright quartz]

so yesterday i got the conclave chest. i did drop a 390 chest for it. sim says i should use twist the knife and seductive power. this would sim higher than TTK and the SS trait on the chest by roughly 2% whith master assassin.

is this kind of true? i was hitting the training dummies for nearly 2 minutes and got only 1 stack ( procc) of seductive power.... could be bad rng but... i dont know if the trait is that much better than SS

[hollow stone]

Dont use seductive power imo. Feelsbad trait

(This is my opinion)

[tropic ocean]

@bright quartz ofc it will be better than the ss trait if you're are not using subterfuge

[turbid zealot]

ss only becomes good with subterfuge

[fringe parcel]

if im playing single target with no ss trait and doing the rng opener of garrote -> Mutilate ->rupture-> mut->3-4 combos vend->Tb->vanish->env->mut->env

if i get say 2 combos from the first mut after rupturing

then the next mut i get 3 so im at 5 already

do i still use tb there and vanish envenom

[civic palm]

Don't MUT another time.

[fringe parcel]

so a 3 combo point envenom > overcapping combos then

[civic palm]

Just MUT while in the MA window, it's better there than outside of TB/MA window due to Double Dose procs.

[fringe parcel]

ok

tyvm

[zinc gust]

anyone give me advice on how to Multi target AOE, like on REAPING i mythic+

[rigid mango]

press FoK

[zinc gust]

ok no other abilities spam one ability

FOK

[rigid mango]

depends on your triats

Normally, set up 4-5 bleeds on poisoned targets

From that point on it depends on what traits you have

if you have 3EB, you just FoK your heart out bud, if you're running ttk's you go FoK -> env -> FoK -> env

[balmy condor]

yeah, with 3eb, you just snipe mobs with rupture for the energy back

[rigid mango]

Don't need to, you just need the energy up from initial bleeds

should

[balmy condor]

things live too long in my keys to rely on the initial bleeds

idk

I just snipe, 90k reapings more than enough

[fluid pecan]

Hey, quick question about Azerite traits! I currently have two shrouded suffocation traits. Should I change one out for the alternative on that ring? Would it be worth it to invest in Echoing Blades or Twisted Knife in stead of the second Shrouded Suffocation?

[vast forum]

for what content?

[keen dome]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[fluid pecan]

PvE: normal raiding & keystones.

[vast forum]

SS is a great overall trait, EB is great at aoe and TTK is good in certain situations, but nothing at normal raiding/low keys

most importantly

[fluid pecan]

I just figured since SS seems sorta wasted with two points in it. The combo points don't stack, only the damage. I'll see what simming does.

[vast forum]

the combo points are less relevant on SS

the damage is the strong part

[fluid pecan]

gotcha!

[vast forum]

having 3xSS and using 3 subterfuge garrotes in m+ is crazy good damage

[cobalt gyro]

try 9 of htem as a night elf

[wind sierra]

stack Nothing Personal or just take one?

i know the energy boost does not stack

[elder gulch]

does mastery increase the dmg of envenom?

[civic palm]

as per: https://www.wowhead.com/spell=76803/mastery-potent-assassin

[elder gulch]

nice

is the envenom tool tip in wrong? it says "nature damage"?

[spice surge]

Tooltips are generally not 100% accurate

[elder gulch]

in game*

okay

[spice surge]

Which is a shame

[civic palm]

Yeah fire whatever machine is in charge of them.

[elder gulch]

so if i'm going for a more priority target build, should I take second EB, or a Tradewinds to do more dmg with envenom?

[balmy condor]

are we talking m+?

[rigid mango]

@elder gulch It depends on what your other traits are, both are quite good but generally EB is top tier (if not the best, would recommend atleast 1 copy, 2 possibly and 3 is a bit overboard for me but is full aoe blast)

[fluid pecan]

i simmed my self! thanks guys

[zinc gust]

best trinkets to go Rogue, Raid and also M+

?

freehold dice?

[ripe bane]

Dice and lurkers from uunat

Boon still good too

[rigid mango]

plume > boon for most purposes

even tho boon might sim higher, you're not guaranteed entire duration and also sim doesn't account for effective usage of plume (aka using it with vendetta, just macro it)

[ripe bane]

plume or plumage?

[rigid mango]

Same thing

Just cba typing plumage

[ripe bane]

plume is world boss trink

fair

[rigid mango]

w/ever plumage then

aye

it's better than gcb for most cases

Esp m+, but also msot times for raiding too

[elder gulch]

@rigid mango i have 1 eb, 1 ss, 1 SoB 1 TtK, 1 Np and the last option would either be second EB or tradewinds

[rigid mango]

I'd go EB

It'll end up w more damage probs tbh

[coarse plank]

I’m relatively new to Rogue.

Is it literally always this hard to get Daggers?

[civic palm]

Yes.

[crisp steppe]

your best shot is from raids or spamming m+ I think. nobody else uses daggers. raid bosses have small drop tables usually

[coarse plank]

Can only use daggers. Meanwhile Outlaw can use One handed Staffs and three fisted wands.

Seems fair

[civic palm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Complain that people only need 1 weapon for some specs if you REALLY wanna complain.

[coarse plank]

KMS

[crisp steppe]

its gonna be ok 😃

should be able to get 395 dagger from emmisary once it pops up for u

[coarse plank]

That’s what I’m waiting for. Hopefully soon. 🙏

[crisp steppe]

🙏

[coarse plank]

Literally still using the crafted 340 daggers. Meanwhile almost everything else is 400+

[crisp steppe]

yeah thats pretty scuffed

[coarse plank]

Like atleast give us like a minor slightly higher chance at getting some. 😭

[cobalt gyro]

dunno why they don't just make only 1 weapoon that is a set of 2

that way everyone only needs to get 1 weapon

[dark crag]

I legit thought they would do that after legion

[cobalt gyro]

FFXIV has done it since.. foreve5r

only one that didn't have it for awhile was paladin where you could get the sword to drop, but no shield. now they always drop together.

[dark crag]

Makes more sense, would also fix double enchant problems that could occur

[civic palm]

At the same time sometimes double enchants can be interesting.

[dark crag]

For dualwield for sure

[cobalt gyro]

i mean, with the ones on PTR, you get the mainstat + navigation one, + something else

[civic palm]

2xDD | 1xNP | 3xTC now O _O 💦 ohboi

[crisp steppe]

the offhand doesn't impact your dps that much to begin with

its not as bad as it might seem

[zenith gust]

doing +20s, still wearing 400 daggers on assa and 400 mace on outlaw . my alters got better weapons 🤦 . forging and loot system in general just sucks. should be based on merit, not on luck but 🤷

[civic palm]

remove all drops

[stone mesa]

is it better to use pot with lust or vend?

[rose perch]

vendetta

[stone mesa]

ty

[cobalt gyro]

ideally both, tho

[stone mesa]

yeah but my guild is lusting at a point where i would have to hold vend for 1 minute and then i would lose a vend

[drifting cloud]

on what fight

[stone mesa]

stormwall

[rose perch]

oh yeah i pot without lust on that fight too

because i'm running an orb during lust

[drifting cloud]

you wouldnt lose vendetta on stormwall unless your raid dps is bad

a 50% speed kill on that fight is slighty above 6min I think

[rancid blaze]

So 3 DD.1 NP. 1 BBI. 1 TTK ok for most fights in BoD? I know it changes with mythic plus. Just strictly speaking for raids

?

[stone mesa]

my guild is looking at a 6:20-6:30 kill

[onyx rock]

I've just been wondering if it makes any difference to pool energy or spam. Outside the TB Window. Is there any benefit to pool for ~100 Energy, 2x Multilate, Envenom ? It feels more smooth to not wait for Energy while spamming multilate but makes it any difference ? In the End both will be 2x Multilate, Envenom while not capping Energy ?!

[visual quartz]

@rancid blaze should always sim yourself to see. I personally just got celophide to replace my DD/NP chest and it simmed 200dps higher

[rancid blaze]

Ok

[hollow stone]

@onyx rock ideally you want every mut in an env buff for the best chance at dd procs so pooling so you m during env is better. But its minimal. Just remember if you arent dropping dots, arent capping energy, and arent over capping cps you arent losing potential dps

[mint sonnet]

Hey i’ve been playing warrior forever and am sorta back from long break, been starting to play rogue more and more so a bit of a bot - does Crimson Tempest still have uses in m+ or do you just go hidden blades for full aoe build?

[meager basalt]

poibomb is my fav

[sullen hedge]

how is assassin in mythic+

i cant stand outlaw onestly

ive given it a try

[spice surge]

Among the best specs

[sullen hedge]

okay thats really nice to hear

holy cow i hate outlaw

[ornate gazelle]

What does Cloak of Shadows do with stacks on Jaina now? Nothing or does it delay the damage for 5 seconds?

[strange python]

pretty sure it prevents u from getting more stacks for the duration

could be mistaken

[drifting cloud]

only thing it does afaik is prevent you from getting blocked if you are on 20 and nothing else

[sour wraith]

it removes stacks in heroic

[ornate gazelle]

on mythic

what's it do?

[sour wraith]

idk about mythic

i'd assume the same but i cant say for sure

[drifting cloud]

it would be beyond broken if it removed stacks

[copper yew]

removes stacks in heroic ez game

[ionic matrix]

anyone have any idea why 415 https://www.wowhead.com/item=159318/hood-of-the-slithering-loa&bonus=4817:1512 is simming better for me than
415 https://www.wowhead.com/item=165519/cowl-of-righteous-resolve

[cobalt gyro]

because it's better

[ionic matrix]

nobody is using swirling sands

so unless everyone is wrong the sims over value it

or my gear is a real outlier

[cobalt gyro]

people probably aren't using it because it sims worse for them

[ionic matrix]

I think its far more likely that simc over values it

if it really was better, everyone would wear it and parse with it, and nobody does.

[meager nebula]

what sims well for one person does not necessarily sim well for another person

[drifting cloud]

link the sim?

[ionic matrix]

how do I link a simulationcraft. I use the desktop app.

[meager nebula]

link the raidbots top gear sim

[ionic matrix]

on it

give me a few minutes to run it boys

[cobalt gyro]

ooor, possibly you have really low crit and thus the on proc crit from swirling is very worthwhile 🤷

[ionic matrix]

could be. I only run 20% crit

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7nMHu6emiNJGAsK5DAjAMP

[drifting cloud]

you are simming cowl with ss

[ionic matrix]

I will put on double dose

pretty sure results are the same

been at this a while the last couple days

[drifting cloud]

with dd and MA it wont be even close

oh you have triple ss

nevermind then, no clue how stuff sims with triple ss

[sullen hedge]

does crimson tempest trigger my energy regen fromb leeds?

ahh nvm

im dumb

[ionic matrix]

and realistically in bfd, triple garrote is always going to be more versatile than double dose when almost every fight offers adds to 2x 3x 4x garrote. Outside of council / mekka garrote is better than double dose.

pretty sure the same could be said for crucible.

[drifting cloud]

ss on Uunat is just pad

on council its definetly better tho

[ionic matrix]

meant conclave*

conclave im sure double dose is better

[drifting cloud]

thing is SS is just a bad trait on pure ST

you dont like MA? thats fine, but theres not alot of reason to run than more than 1 SS

even the logs on jaina and stormwall that play subt usually only run 1

so thats why your helm sims more

if you tried it with an MA build with 0 ss im almost 100% it wouldnt be close

[cobalt gyro]

SS isn't that bad ST

[drifting cloud]

well he sims barely 26k at 414 with 6 sockets

[cobalt gyro]

it's decently competitive

[drifting cloud]

those graphs make it look close than it actually is

[spice surge]

Well no

Because even though the increase is similar

Subt is still a couple 100s behind ma

[cobalt gyro]

the real problem with SS is that even 1 SS means you're running subt

[spice surge]

Although you can do the meme burst opener with 3ss

[cobalt gyro]

3ss exsang bursts way harder, for sure, tho

[spice surge]

Nightstalker > stealth > spec subterfuge > get both applied on your first garrote

[cobalt gyro]

lmao

[drifting cloud]

😄

[cobalt gyro]

does that stay applied if you clip it

[spice surge]

170% increase

Nope

[ionic matrix]

is that a thing... lol

[spice surge]

Only on pull

[cobalt gyro]

as in g > r > g as you would with SS traits

[ionic matrix]

thats how I open, I hadnt considered using talent change tome to do the nightstalker into subterfuge trick though

[spice surge]

Yes that would overwrite it

[cobalt gyro]

sounds like the outlaw loaded dice cheese

lmao

[ionic matrix]

its 1 tick or 2 at 150% damage before you overwrite

worth it boys

[civic palm]

sees OTL rogues 11 item levels higher SIM for 3k less than him... is curious

[cobalt gyro]

its the entire duration of that first garrote

[ionic matrix]

when you pandemic on the third global you probably over write it though

[drifting cloud]

even with subterfuge, when I swap 1 SS for DD its over a 300 dps gain

then going to MA is another 300

[civic palm]

Yep.

That's on ST though ye?

[drifting cloud]

yes

[ionic matrix]

is there a way on raidbots to tell it to change my azerite choices without physically doing it in game. not super excited about 4k to test

[civic palm]

Gear Compare for things you do not have.

Top Gear for things you do have.

[drifting cloud]

yeah lol you just import with addon to top gear

[sullen hedge]

is crimson tempest actually good?

[civic palm]

It's fine when used correctly.