assassination

[modest violet]

today I got 425 mastery pants w/ socket

[cobalt gyro]

415 galecallers from my box

[merry zinc]

for TD with rogue and DH, does it make a difference if I blind/sap the 2 mobs on the stairs or the two before the gate?

on the brig*

[distant lava]

i prefer to sap the one in stairs

cause runing around near gate you could aggro the one you saped again

[merry zinc]

you mean blind? thought sap couldnt aggro or?

[distant lava]

the one you blinded *

[merry zinc]

yes okay

thank you, that makes sense

and should the group wait for me to open the buffs if we want to shroud the 3 mobs after?

or should i shroud em and go back?

[light kestrel]

Got the same ring, 2 weeks in a row, bought chest, was the same chest I bought last time

FEELSGOODMAN

[distant lava]

maybe you just went back a week in time

[hasty brook]

RNG is not kind sometimes

[distant lava]

that's

[light kestrel]

Lol, I got the same shoulders 3 times in a row before I gave up. "Shoulders of the Sanguine Monstrosity"

[cobalt gyro]

@merry zinc depends on your strat and the key difficulty

Sometimes i literally can't shroud them because it's not up for another minute

[merry zinc]

okay thank you. its +18-19 atm, so i think it should be up

[cobalt gyro]

I've had it not be up on 21's

You can get the buffs in under a minute, though, so

[distant lava]

plus not blinding the one at the gate makes the hardest door to solo open easier

[crisp steppe]

perfecto using racing flag on uu'nat ^^

[glossy kestrel]

@obtuse ruin i use dominos and moveanything. really helped my UI. i'm also learning to use Raven, to sort buffs and debuffs more intelligently in addition to moving them

[steel wagon]

call me stupid, but can someone explain to me what 0s, 20s, and full on herodamage for the insidious gift trinket means?

like all i see is the static mastery buff, then the damage we take per second

[marble hemlock]

the damage you take increases per second

so in some situations you might not wanna have it run full duration to save the healers some mana

so if you wanna cancel it after vendetta, i.e. 20secs, the value of the trinket drops a bit

[steel wagon]

ohhh, so that is based on wether or not we are taking it the full 30 sec

pfffttt healers need stuff to do just do the full 30 secs 😛

does the trinket give value to other traits? Currently using 3x DD 3x NP

[tropic ocean]

it gives value to everything that is increased by mastery

[steel wagon]

But would that value be increased OVER dd or np i suppose is the question

[tropic ocean]

you mean if dd or np gets boosted by the trinket mastery?

[steel wagon]

most of the traits are scaled by vers right

i think i answered my own question lol

[tropic ocean]

well dd is poison so I suppose its buffed by mastery trinket

[steel wagon]

for some reason i thought ttk was increased by mastery

[tropic ocean]

np is nature damage, so im not sure if it is buffed by mastery trinket but probably someone else can confirm or deny that

envenom should be increased by mastery, the ttk trait not since it just adds flat dmg to ttk

but from my logic ttk increases envenom dmg and mastery increases the envenom dmg so

it should be good for that as well

depending on how game calculates it

[steel wagon]

3x np 3x dd is probably still best tho it seems

[tropic ocean]

for st?

[steel wagon]

yeah

[tropic ocean]

no

with current gear you want 3x dd 1x np 1x bbi 1x ttk

since that are the pieces with overwhelming power on it

dd np no overwhelming power < dd ttk overwhelming power

[steel wagon]

my helm and shoulders both have Overhwelming power

and are both NP DD

it's just my chest that doesnt have it. good to know though.

[tropic ocean]

well if thats what you have I guess its good enough

[steel wagon]

looks like i have some reforgin' to do 😛

[tropic ocean]

the bis setup atm is 1st boss helm, gorak tul's shoulder, celaphohide jacket chest

[steel wagon]

ya i have 1st boss goraks rn, i can recover celaphohide though

[tropic ocean]

u should

its ur bis jacket

[steel wagon]

so is DD NP Overwhelming better than DD TTK Overwhelming?

[tropic ocean]

should be

but better sim it

[steel wagon]

because on goraks you can have DD NP and overwhelming

[tropic ocean]

on goraks u want

dd bbi op

1x bbi > 2nd np

[fringe parcel]

if you have all 3 of those azerite pieces, what traits do you take on helm? cuz sim is saying DD/TC

instead of DD/NP

[tropic ocean]

do you have np on other piece?

[fringe parcel]

yeah, but no SS on anything if that matters

[steel wagon]

i only have to go through 70 pages on the recovery list to find my chest

[tropic ocean]

usually 1 np is a very high dps upgrade

[steel wagon]

should be fun

[tropic ocean]

so if u have 1stboss helm gorak tul and cephalohide your setup will be

helmet: dd np op, shoulder: dd bbi op, chest: dd ttk op

[rigid mango]

Which is BiS^

[fringe parcel]

i have sinister glad chest with DD/TTK, 1st boss helm, but then tentacle laced spaulders, which have DD/NP

[tropic ocean]

still sim yourself but in 99% cases if its same itemlvl it should be bis by far

i dont know every gear from my mind just do top gear sim from bags

[rigid mango]

The only thing that sims close is spymasters/mekka chest

[tropic ocean]

bbi when it procs is just such masterrace

[rigid mango]

^

[tropic ocean]

when we killed jaina i had it proc 2x after each other

and went from 18k to 20k

[fringe parcel]

i buy shoulders every week... have tentacle laced, pistoleers, and sanguine monstrosity.. >< but my sim is saying to take no SS, and go DD/TC on my helm. just have no idea how my rotation changes with master assassin

ravenholdt is fully up to date right

[wary ice]

ye

[tropic ocean]

yeah

[fringe parcel]

ok

[wary ice]

ur rotation doesnt change

just ur burst window

[tropic ocean]

with ma u just go garrote>mutilate>rupture>vendetta>vanish>tb>mutilate>envenom

[rigid mango]

Yeah just vanish usage

rly

[wary ice]

which is covered in the opener section on that

[rigid mango]

That's the only diff, you just press vanish with vend on cd pretty much

[fringe parcel]

im kinda fucked lol. i have toxic blade as my stealth when OOC

[rigid mango]

as soon as you learn the opener you'll be smooth sailing

[fringe parcel]

so when i vanish to toxic blade

its rip

[tropic ocean]

just change ur macro

[fringe parcel]

not sure what to ability to change it to

same issue occurs with mutilate and envenom

if i do either of those

[tropic ocean]

?

u press vendetta

then you press vanish

toxic blade>mutilate>envenom

thats it

[fringe parcel]

yeah

my toxic blade is the same bind as cheap

[tropic ocean]

so change your keybind?

I mean you basically never use cheap shot in raid anyway

[fringe parcel]

yeah i mainly pvp ><

otherwise itd be a simple fix, i just dont have anything that feels comfortable to change it to

but i clearly have to find something

[tropic ocean]

theres an addon called talent set manager or smth if i remember

where you can save talents/keybinds etc

[fringe parcel]

okay ill take a look at that, thank you

[wary ice]

You could also do env->mut->env

higher top end but super rng dependant and has a lower bottom end

That rotation looks like Vend@~3-4cp ->TB -> vanish ->env->mut->

[tropic ocean]

the "HOLY SHIT" or "mEEEEEEEEH" rotation 😄

[marble hemlock]

@steel wagon regarding the mastery question earlier, it does increase trait value, yes

[fringe parcel]

so its still garrote>mut>rupture, but then im just mutilating once or twice more prior to vend?

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Dm4LH/b0a8d616c0.png

[tropic ocean]

@fringe parcel u have 2 options after the opener

opener is garrote>mutilate>rupture

then you can either do the safe/more avg good results way -> vendetta>vanish>tb>mutilate>envenom
or the "gamble" higher max which is mutilate to 3-4cp >vendetta>tb>vanish>envenom>mutilate>envenom

[wary ice]

@fringe parcel my full opener with that; going off memory so cut me some slack:

garrote -> Mutilate ->rupture-> mut->vend->Tb->vanish->env->mut->env->mut to 4-5 ->env...

[fringe parcel]

okay

i just did it and pulled 65k burst

feelsgood lol

[wary ice]

vend->vanish->t-> mut->env is a lot safer

[fringe parcel]

yeh

the nonsafe option means i dont have to change macros/binds

lol

[wary ice]

In my opner, if you're usper unlucky with that mut and TB (one of the 3 has to crit), you mut again before the vanish)

[fringe parcel]

ok

alright thanks so much for the help, appreciate it

[wary ice]

re: 65k burst

wait till it fucks u and u only pull 30k

feels bad

[tropic ocean]

@wary ice

https://prnt.sc/ngtumn

[wary ice]

:^( why am i @'d

big envenom

[tropic ocean]

the gamble opener sometimes is really good

[wary ice]

honestly if ur gunna go MA I say go for the gmable every time

[tropic ocean]

but then it hurts when it doesnt crit

[wary ice]

MA is such a small window that minimizing variance in it isnt really worth it imo

[tropic ocean]

i usually go for the gamble too yeah

[wary ice]

if u get fucked u get fucked 🤷

[tropic ocean]

just having that moment of regret for a short time when it doesnt work out

[wary ice]

now u "only" have TB+DD damage to carry you for 2 mins

[visual quartz]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r8pxCMYWD2mPWiZMGsVutY

is this telling me both helps are the same?

helms*

[nimble tartan]

no

[visual quartz]

omg im blind haha

Yeah I also always gamble, getting a 2p mut in MA is the worst though.

[peak saffron]

you can't cloak the dot of the uu'nat trinket, right?

don't have the trinket yet to test for mysself

[royal lantern]

nope, you cant

dmg is not really noticable until you reach like 15stacks anyway

[peak saffron]

if you click off the mastery buff, does the dot go away?

[royal lantern]

yep, you can just write a use trinket/cancle aura macro for it

[peak saffron]

nice thank you very much

[royal lantern]

@peak saffron #showtooltip Lurker's Insidious Gift
/cancelaura Insidious Gift
/use Lurker's Insidious Gift

the macro if you need it

[untold stream]

Is using both the Lurker trinket and the boots worth it ? Since the boots buff stops when you take damage

[peak saffron]

appreciate it @royal lantern

[spice surge]

@untold stream they do not

Trinket does not remove the boot buff

Nor does a lot of other damage

[untold stream]

Oh, okay, didn't know that, thanks 😃

Does Jaina debuff cancels it ? Couldn't test it

[spice surge]

Yes

[strange python]

does mekkatorque robot dmg break boots

[thorny shore]

fun week to stack 3EB uh

[vast forum]

@strange python no, only bombs break boots on mekka

[strange python]

TY

[spring quartz]

What's the preferred trait-setup for M+ assa? I am aware it's a matter of character and sims; but which ones are more or less vital and do we strive to stack any trait?

[tropic ocean]

eb/ttk/ss

in any combination

[spring quartz]

Alright

[balmy snow]

When simming, is there any particular settings I should set it to? or leave it at default? (Default 5 mins, patchwerk)

[mint peak]

When you're simming for raid most of the time patchwerk default is fine

[balmy snow]

oh fair enough, thanks 😄

[wary ice]

!gcb

dang

[civic palm]

vomits information

[wary ice]

THat doesnt change w/ MA right?

[civic palm]

Shouldn't.

You really want it aligned with Vendetta as many times as possible without sacrificing a cast.

[steep obsidian]

galecaller too much work on most fights for me

i dont think ive used the one sitting in my bags for months and months

[civic palm]

Yeah I probably would not use it either.

CoS is extreme cancer for it as well.

[simple meteor]

so guys 100% crit on 8.2 ??essences new pot 20% crit the secondary stats will be all over the place

[civic palm]

Will have to wait and see until things get closer to 8.2

[meager nebula]

The current iteration of essences should not be taken as the final version as they are subject to change.

[simple meteor]

idk looking forward to see what will be left broken cause even with ptr always something broken comes to live ;p

[steep obsidian]

are the new mats for the pots on the ptr yet or is it still placeholder?

i guess i can check

[meager nebula]

afaik they are updated with the required mats

the flasks were, don't see why the pots wouldn't be

[dense blaze]

Anyone got a Lurker's weakaura

[steep obsidian]

yeah i just checked

there is a new herb called "zinathid"

[meager nebula]

@dense blaze https://wago.io/fI7p2HZPNo

[steep obsidian]

but the old herbs wont be worthelss

[meager nebula]

they aren't useless thankfully

[dense blaze]

I imported that and it doesn't do anything

[meager nebula]

just not as important

oh?

[simple meteor]

i have the same and it works

[steep obsidian]

looks like stockpiling riverbud will be the go to for agi users

you wont need sirens

[civic palm]

What do you need a Lurker's WA to do?

Trust. In your healers.

:nods:

[simple meteor]

what you mean trust in your healers when it goes 20 stacks i am trempling to press the cancelaura macro

[civic palm]

Go to 30, wut.

Cloak the last 5 seconds, so you're really only going to 25 > _>

[simple meteor]

i do that but on mythic plus so many random spells and most of the times i use cloak on mechanics instead of trinket

[civic palm]

Though considering how dumb things have been, Cloak might not actually work O _O

[meager nebula]

the last time it was tested, cloak didn't work

[civic palm]

YEah.

That's what I was thinking.

[meager nebula]

but im unsure about currently

[simple meteor]

havent payed attention to it but used cloak to it sometimes

[civic palm]

Either way M+ is different entirely, so trying to cancel it somewhere make more sense.

[meager nebula]

I wouldn't even consider that trinket on grievous week.

[civic palm]

No thanks.

[simple meteor]

idd

[civic palm]

So what do you want the WA to do anyway? or did you find something?

[meager nebula]

I imagine they wanted something to track stacks/duration/cd

[civic palm]

Well ima not make something until I get a nice description :3

[meager nebula]

Yeah.

[simple meteor]

i use the one oce linked works fine

[civic palm]

k

[stiff crag]

when is ideal time to use insidious gift trinket?

[civic palm]

During a period by which you would do the most damage.

[stiff crag]

so around vanish/vendettal uses with my traits I'm guessing

[civic palm]

Vendetta ye, lines up and everything, ezpz.

[stiff crag]

thanks

[hasty brook]

Is this trinket [Lurker's Insidious Gift] decent for rogues? It was a 395 drop

[meager nebula]

it is a very good trinket yes

[hasty brook]

over [Azerokk's Resonating Heart] 375 ilevel?

[nimble tartan]

Yes very much so!

[hasty brook]

ty. I have been holdong on to that very old trinket forever because of the random 1k agil

[cobalt gyro]

should i be using vendetta on jaina wall

[inner pecan]

no

[near pilot]

anyone have that cancel aura macro for lurkers? got me a 410 with a socket ❤

[cobalt gyro]

#showtooltip /use 14 /use 13 /cancelaura Insidious Gift

is the one i use

[near pilot]

i alrdy have it macro'd to vendetta, adding the cancel just means i hit it again right?

got it, thanks!

[polar cape]

i would just bind the cancel on an other button tbh

[cobalt gyro]

yes

i just put all my trinkets on the same button

and hit it again to cancel

[lost horizon]

Could also do a shift modifier for the cancel aura

Or another modifier

[near pilot]

makes sense

[fallen bay]

How does crimson tempest change aoe rotation? Using it only once and let it fade and apply again?

If it is worth this week or no

[tropic ocean]

it can be worth yes

you basically 3x garrote on trash then 1x ct

and start spreading your ruptures

once its <2s u reapply it (if mobs will live through the duration, or at least a big part of it)

no point in reapplying when mobs have 200k hp and will die after 3sec

in packs + reaping I also tried to use it as the elaborate planning finisher to spend combo points which is a good amount of pad dmg, but then found killing a priority with envenom to keep eb up more worth

[fallen bay]

But for higher keys this week it might be worth right?

[grizzled jay]

If you're going for AoE might as well play outlaw. I'd play sin more like the well known pseudo-sub build atm. Or 3xSS builds for temple /KR

[fallen bay]

What do you mean by pseudo sub, heated that for first time now

Heard

[distant lava]

you go with some TTK traits and toxic blade

[manic heart]

is there a layer of brainpower to apply for elaborate planning uptime or do I just press buttons and roll with it?

[distant lava]

and you just envenom a prio target to death

[fallen bay]

Is dungeon slice Sim rankings accurate for sub or is it trash as hell?

😂

[lost tree]

why are there so many people playing with 3 SS and so many people plaing 3 DD and 2 or 3 Nothing Personal

[exotic widget]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/k9xmz2EnL9HsfpRCvUeRyu would you guys use dice over spyglass?

[distant lava]

3 SS is the pad life

[exotic widget]

150/100 sim dps less subterfuge/ma

[lost tree]

what life? 😄

should i aim for it when i can or not? sims says its about 500 dps worse to my current gear

[distant lava]

you should not if sims say it's worse

[lost tree]

okay, but on what does it depend that so many people play with it oO

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/icFF6AjGA6V9BPNJgTTRyE

[distant lava]

basically 3SS is huge "additional dmg" when they are other targets, it's padding cause you do "useless" dmg to increase your logs

[lost tree]

ah so i could possibly build 2 Gear Sets for Cleave fights and pure SIngletarget

thanks so much 😃

[fallen bay]

Are there at least one azerite for each slot from vendor with ss +eb combination?

[vague patrol]

there's definitely a helm and shoulders, not sure about chest

from vendor

most people prob get the chest from conclave

[ornate osprey]

yup there is a chest.raiment of blighted tribe. waycrest chest

[flint jetty]

What are opinions on using Elusiveness on Jaina?

[spice surge]

Makes feint worth actually using

Most of the time you don't die from oneshots anyway (besides screwing up avalanche in p1) so its pretty good

[flint jetty]

Seems like there aren't too many areas where cheat has been huge that's where i was wondering

[spice surge]

All 3 are fine for jaina

[royal lantern]

wath do you think about leeching poison for jaina?

[humble igloo]

cheat death all the way

[royal lantern]

it has no real use on jaina tbh

never had it proc too save me,only too delay the wipe call by 2-3 sec

[short stratus]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[tropic ocean]

@royal lantern

leeching is win

cuz

https://prnt.sc/nj2glp

https://prnt.sc/nj2gzj

only took 1 talent change to down jaina

[rose perch]

leeching was the glue

tbh i always pick something off-meta on that row

[vestal wren]

why not leeching then

[rose perch]

my screenshot is from cabal not jaina

leeching would be a big 🤔 on cabal

[vestal wren]

but it would be off meta 🤓

[rose perch]

elusive is already off meta i'm the only one to do it!

😡

[vestal wren]

another off meta player is also in there

[rose perch]

the enrage got stealth nerfed to 9:30

[vestal wren]

13 sec spare

easy game

[rose perch]

there's like a 9:35 kill or something up there

blood legion's

[tropic ocean]

oh gz on mythic kill

[rose perch]

ty ❤

you too!

[tropic ocean]

I guess we wil take some time

not sure if we even go in yet since ppl are not really motivated after they saw other guilds progress it

[simple meteor]

yeah but the 400+ pulls was before the nerfs

oh you talking for first boss mybad

[tropic ocean]

yeah

I think my guild wont kill it even after the nerf

[vestal wren]

new raid is not super interessting for the majority (on mythic)

[tropic ocean]

just don't have this dps

probably wont even have the dps I saw from 1st boss kill logs

but since we killed jaina world 450

by the time it gets to that ranks it will be probably tuned so we can try it

[royal lantern]

@rose perch i play leeching from now too get those #1 healing logs

cant get normal dps logs? #1 sin rogue heal incomming!

vial on cd!

[simple meteor]

get those healing legs aswell

and gloves

[distant lava]

triple resounding

[fallen bay]

should i run 2EB/2TTK/SS or 3EB/1TTK/SS ?

for this week

[rigid mango]

2nd one is only 5 traits

2/2/2 always works

[royal lantern]

im sure visage will bring more hps then resounding in fights like jaina

gonna minmax that

[fallen bay]

the last one trait is blood rite over SoB for me

that's why i am asking 😄

[rigid mango]

Then yeah, 2/2/2

Imo 2/2/2 or 3 ttk 2ss/eb 1ss/eb or 3 ttk 1 ss eb bbi

Are the best set ups atm

[fallen bay]

i have only one SS

[rigid mango]

But you said 2eb/ttk/ss?

[stuck knoll]

No he didn't both were only 5

[fallen bay]

3EB/ttk,SS and blood rite or 2EB/2TTK/SS/Blood Rite

[rigid mango]

h

Ah* nvm

I'd go 2nd

1 ttk isn't worth playing around

[fallen bay]

is CT worth for Shrine ?

[rigid mango]

I think CT is just hard to get consistanf value from

Pb is just always value, CT is only good if the trash always survives for a long amount of time

[fallen bay]

well what about 18+ Shrine ?

that shouldnt be dead in 20 secs 😄

[rigid mango]

Myeh possibly, I normally just run with aoe blast classes and justs pump ttk damage instead

But it would probs be goos

[near pilot]

Fort teeming week CT might be useful

[tropic ocean]

Or just take hidden blades

[simple meteor]

cba wasting cps on CT

HB all the way

[unkempt wedge]

always Mutilate at 0-3 CP?

ST

[royal lantern]

yes

[cobalt gyro]

ya, you don't care about overcapping CP generated by seal fate, generally

[viscid crown]

is there a way to sim lurker's gift for only 20 seconds, like if i need to cancel it

[night vale]

it has 2/3 of the effect, just look at the difference between lurkers and another trinket on raidbots and then times the difference by 2/3

thats what i would so anyway

probably not strictly true

cause masterys effect on dps differs throughout a fight i suppose

i dont know, ignore me

[viscid crown]

seems like a decent idea, cheers

[lost horizon]

The problem with that is that 2thirds of it are in vendetta

Last third is not

Hence the first 20sec have higher value than the last 10sec (assuming you use it with vendetta)

[onyx rock]

Finally

[lost horizon]

Grats

[karmic ingot]

Self Reliance though 🤢

[marble hemlock]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nGKYYoxoy6nbmtbkLaBJX1

finally goraktuls

POG

[karmic ingot]

👍

[marble hemlock]

7k residue tho 😦

[onyx rock]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/safsfoLyQAZYV5yNDCuSDe

[karmic ingot]

Ouch.

[golden relic]

gratzz

[distant lava]

seli

[onyx rock]

@marble hemlock your sockets dude 😄

[marble hemlock]

ye, should replace the crit gems with haste for raiding, but cba swapping everytime 😦

[slim socket]

do you guys play with cepha or mekka chest?

[fresh turret]

Can somebody please tell me whether the wounding poison works on Uu’nat in CoS?

[marble hemlock]

DONT YOU RAT ME ELEEM

you were ahead of me for months!

not my fault youre slacking :<

[onyx rock]

cepha @slim socket

[spice surge]

Tbf im not really that far behind you 😄

I just need lurker and prob another socket

[marble hemlock]

mhye

only real bigboi upgrade at this stage would be MH weapon

[fringe parcel]

if I have 420 EB/NP helm, 420 EB/SS shoulders, and can choose btwn 420 DD/TTK chest or 405 EB/SS chest, which would be better for m+ overall

[slim socket]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wzWRA188x1YLhkPxeBDiqt
i wonder about cepha and mekka chest it sims slightly better but mekka feel to be more consistent

[marble hemlock]

the 420 dd/ttk one for singletarget/prio damage, the 405 one for aoe/higher overall

[steep obsidian]

Just be a jc and get the thing where you can take gems outta yer gear

[golden relic]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8MbwHk6imFhbeeXmwzyqTz ye I got a good MH and it rly carries dps , budget lurkers though

[onyx rock]

wtf

xD

[karmic ingot]

6 holes and 425 MH is pretty sick.

[marble hemlock]

to make matters worse, the 2 replacement items for the dazarlor set items both dont have a socket 😦

[spice surge]

oof 😦

[marble hemlock]

well, its 420 jaina ring and 425 haste/mastery cloak, but still, no sockets 😦

[karmic ingot]

Both of my alts are simming higher than my rogue right now because my rogue has been stuck on Jaina lockouts.

[prisma carbon]

I give up on gambling. Just gonna save for the gorak tul shoulders.

[fresh turret]

Anyone?

[sturdy python]

Doubt it’s been tested

[karmic ingot]

It worked on Fetid.

You’re better off letting a monk or BM hunter handle it though.

Wounding isn’t worth the DPS loss for a mechanic that is avoidable anyway.

[vocal lion]

Has>Crit or Crit>Has ?

[marble hemlock]

wound poison works, ye

[karmic ingot]

Sim > haste/crit

[vocal lion]

24 %cel and 23% crit its ok?

haste*

[karmic ingot]

Is it your highest sim?

[strange python]

Seliathan you have a disgusting amount of gems

[vocal lion]

yep

[karmic ingot]

Then it’s ok.

[vocal lion]

ok ty

[marble hemlock]

no i dont

still missing 2

[distant lava]

[spice surge]

Tbf seli has probably done 10x the m+ most of us others have this season 😄

[marble hemlock]

nah

i havent played all that much honestly

in s1, sure, but not in s2

[primal gazelle]

get jc to replace your 400 socket ring 😛

[nimble tartan]

I legit haven’t done bod in so long

I used to be thicc gear pepehands

[quasi pewter]

I havent gotten a real upgrade in 2 months+ now

Until uunat trinket earlier but i alread had 420 spyglass 415 dice

[grizzled jay]

Poor you

Jelly btw

[quasi pewter]

I have neither gorak tul nor cephalo and like 2 sockets

Poor me indeed

But gorak tul inc in 3 weeks

[stoic spruce]

.

[fringe parcel]

holy fuck the rng opener for MA is so insane if it goes well lol

didnt realize you could burst 115k unbuffed

[quasi pewter]

115?

[dusky jolt]

is it worth using the variable intensity trinket, or is it better to just let it keep going?

[spice surge]

Use it at 6 stacks

[tropic ocean]

115k :^)

[hasty brook]

MA over planning?

wtf

[spice surge]

Master assassin and elaborate planning are not on the same tier

You're probably thinking of MP, master poisoner

[quartz depot]

any boss worth using the crucible boots on in bod?

[dark crag]

No gorak, no cephalo, only 2 sockets club

[spice surge]

Most of them liethe

[quasi pewter]

propably all but jaina?

[spice surge]

Just not jaina

[quasi pewter]

but i wouldnt know i dont have gear like that

[quartz depot]

guess i'll just use them on all but jaina and see what the uptime is

[spice surge]

A lot of the fight its 100%

Like conclave and rastakhan

[quartz depot]

does it not get removed by aoe damage or what?

[quasi pewter]

not by all

afaik

only some damage breaks it

tooltip is not really quite correct

[quartz depot]

i see

[tropic ocean]

410 lurkers > 415 plume with socket

😮

[spice surge]

Well yeah? Lurker is 30s of a good stat whereas plume is 20s with a mediocre stat

Looking at herodamage you see a 395 lurker being roughly as good as a ~420 plumage

[tawny shell]

Got a 420 lurker last night PogU

[dark crag]

Imagine you get carried through cos hc with your fresh 120 char and get a 410 lurker that does more dmg in the 30sec than your max hp

[tawny shell]

Sounds like current wow

[dark crag]

Stand in og press the trinket and die

[tropic ocean]

@spice surge yeah I just didnt think it also outweights the gemslot

[crystal vessel]

how are the boots/pants?

[tropic ocean]

i have the pants 415

did 2,3% dmg at champion in 1.55min

so < than poison bomb

[stuck knoll]

Do you often expect your pants to do more damage than a talent?

Like that's pretty good for 1 piece of gear

[tropic ocean]

the question is if its worth to lose a lot of secondary stat

sim says no for my char

[stuck knoll]

It says yes for a lot of people

So the correct answer is for them to sim themself

[nimble tartan]

Boots are pretty nice on 1st boss mythic as well looking at like 7 minute pulls i had usually 86-89% uptime

This was 8 min pull

There were some pulls where it dipped low low like 68% but I probably just got crushing a lot

[buoyant coyote]

I really wanna go with MA but all my sims subf higher

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qwx5xhtTsxDPH11K4nMVUw

[spice surge]

Shrouded suffocation is garbage without subterfuge

Thats why

[buoyant coyote]

tradewinds is the other 😒

[spice surge]

Almost certain tradewinds+ma sims higher

Tradewinds isnt bad

[willow cypress]

When you switch traits to SS and forget to change to Subt talent before the pull

[buoyant coyote]

shoulder=",id=159299,bonus_id=5448/1587/4786/5421,context=35,azerite_powers=136/408/459/14"

what do i change on this to get winds on it?

[spice surge]

Topgear

[buoyant coyote]

oh right i can sim with talents there aswell

idk how my dmg would change overall though

Just to be able to wanna be part of "heavy burst bois"

[nocturne jetty]

so i just got a 30ilvl upgrade azerite piece but i then have no shrouded suffocation. how badly will that effect me in m+?

[buoyant coyote]

Uh....play outlaw

thats what i do on m+ and watch netflix on other monitor

@nocturne jetty another way to check it is simming with dung slice i think

[spice surge]

@buoyant coyote http://piclair.com/data/hq6p8.jpg

[nocturne jetty]

dung slice?

i haven't played or checked here ina while im not sure what you mean

[buoyant coyote]

@spice surge https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/unax7s7NKhfFCZt862eQ5o during heavy movment

200 dps increase

[spice surge]

Dont use heavy movement

[buoyant coyote]

I find it a better way to simulate a mythic boss

[spice surge]

Its not

[buoyant coyote]

like rastakan etc

oh which one is best then ,I find patchwerk abit scuffy myself

[cobalt gyro]

you can't realistically simulate a boss

[buoyant coyote]

From what i understand that it sim if u stand still for 5 min and nuke

[spice surge]

There is no way to simulate bosses perfectly. Patchwerk and then applying cricial thinking is the best approach

[buoyant coyote]

okay so with MA i know the opener but when cd's up again I just do same as opener i guess ?
Vanish-Toxic->

[rigid mango]

Yeah

[buoyant coyote]

also ignore my trinket im ashamed of it

[spice surge]

Movement options in simc just means you randomly stop attacking for a bit, whereas in an actual fight you can plan for that downtime

And dont use TB/vendetta 1s before 15s of downtime

[buoyant coyote]

@nocturne jetty https://gyazo.com/279fe8e85214f4cf375668793e0f8238

sorry for late response

fair enough eleem

[nocturne jetty]

oh its another option on raidbots ?

[buoyant coyote]

yea

[rigid mango]

Just sim 5 min patchwerk and then go from there

[buoyant coyote]

@spice surge so garrote isnt the same with ma at all then ?

[rigid mango]

It's the baseline ST

[spice surge]

? Garrote wont do as much damage no

[buoyant coyote]

no extra dmg on it

fair enogh

[rigid mango]

garrote is only there for dmg and energy reg

it doesn't matter as much as it does with ss/sub

[buoyant coyote]

I need advice then , should i start playing with MA during progg or use subf during progg

[rigid mango]

Depends what your traits are

and fight, for that matter

[buoyant coyote]

We are on mekka atm

[spice surge]

If its mekka+ then no, if your on rasta and below then keep SS

Mekka, stormwall and jaina are all basicly full ST as melees

[rigid mango]

^

And MA is really good there

I'd argue MA is better for rasta too but

[buoyant coyote]

Sorry i dont understand 100% , should I play with ma during mekka and up xD?

[rigid mango]

yeah

mekka, stormwall and jaina

[buoyant coyote]

And only thing that changes gameplay is cd' usage?

[rigid mango]

What, between MA/subterfuge?

[spice surge]

And the opener, yes

[rigid mango]

it's the diff between what u use vanish for

One uses it for empowered garrotes

Ma uses it for a huge burst window with tb and vend

[buoyant coyote]

I would lineup Vanish ,Vendetta,TB

[rigid mango]

yeah

[buoyant coyote]

i might be a

but i know to line em up 😄

[rigid mango]

Aye

[buoyant coyote]

but thats mostly the change to it

[nocturne jetty]

thanks @buoyant coyote c:

[rigid mango]

just think that if you've got like

[buoyant coyote]

and Garrote isnt as much with subf

[rigid mango]

20 sec before vend comes off cd

and tb just came off cd

use tb and wait with vend/vanish

[buoyant coyote]

yea i would use Tb and wait those extra seconds

[rigid mango]

since it most likely wont give you another vanish/vend but those 5 sec or more

might give another tb during fight

ofc depends on fight timer

[buoyant coyote]

yea ofc

but i would allways line it up with vanish and tb , if its 20-15 sec i would use it and wait for next one

consdering the cd isnt that long

[rigid mango]

Yah

but if using vend 5-10 sec later

[buoyant coyote]

played with ss and subf for such a long time

[rigid mango]

might result in not getting another vend

it's nto worth delaying it

[buoyant coyote]

yea vendetta last 20 sec so

[rigid mango]

yah

but you if possible align it with vanish for simplicity's sake

[buoyant coyote]

We are gonna do opu atm, guess im sticking to subf etc

cuz im to lazy to get stuff for outlaw

[rigid mango]

🤷

both work

in the end boss damage is the diff

so MA is pretty ok if ur just there to 1 shot and learn how to use

might aswell

[buoyant coyote]

Hmm yea, its a re-clear week so

i dont wanna be lowest just cuz learning so i get memed

[rigid mango]

Aye I mean if opu is easy-ish like 1 shot territory ur dmg wont matter that much

[viscid crown]

can we still pre cloak p3's chilling touch and immune all dmg?

[rigid mango]

Just learn MA and pump scrubs during last 3 bosses

[buoyant coyote]

fair enough thanks

[spice surge]

@viscid crown No

[viscid crown]

kk ty

[buoyant coyote]

kinda gets boring to use same talent for soon a year stright XD

[rigid mango]

I used to love Sub, now I love MA

still love sub for m+ tho

[marble hemlock]

be happy @buoyant coyote

you didnt change talents even once during the entirety of MoP

not a single time

that was "fun"

[strange python]

On ravenholdt it says that a single Nothing Personal trait is enough but when I go to warcraftlogs almost all top parses are using multiple NP traits..how come?

[hasty brook]

Yeah I am not sure myself. At one point I had NPx3 but used topgear to sim it and found one SS and two of NP to be best.

My burst went through the roof with NPx3 though

[spice surge]

The first point of NP is worth a lot more than the second

But that doesnt mean the second one is bad

[strange python]

if the energy regen doesnt stack so what does?

[spice surge]

Damage/stats/healing always stack

[hasty brook]

the dot dmg

[spice surge]

Never anything else

[hasty brook]

I do not pool much..I tend to get impatient.

[strange python]

even raidbots told me to stack NP..guess am gona go with it

[buoyant coyote]

OMFGhttps://gyazo.com/14374f282620b86519da453c5cd5f382

what?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[harsh sphinx]

fkkk gratz, trying to get one of those today as well

[polar cape]

Big gratz

[buoyant coyote]

only took a few months

[harsh sphinx]

first reclear today in months it seems like,hyped to try out some assa tactics

[sullen pagoda]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/frBtgVxpJcF4gSGoGk8LLE almost 28k 😢

[spark temple]

think 2ss/2eb/1ttk/1tc are decent enough azerite traits to warrant getting practice in m+ rather than going braindead outlaw?

[hasty brook]

Outlaw seems to have a lot more to it rotation wise no? I tried it for a couple of days. Didn't like the playstle but felt likeI had more spells.

[buoyant coyote]

@spice surge https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xLDCc3kN1WJry2GF#fight=2&type=damage-done this is the result of new talent

I like it

gave me more burst and stuff

did more on Conclave aswell

[strange python]

Which talents? @buoyant coyote

[buoyant coyote]

ma

I used to play Subf

[rigid mango]

@spark temple It's not bad, but 1ttk isn't normally worth playing around and tc could be better (another ss/eb/ttk/bbi)

[spark temple]

Yeah, I'm trying to avoid reforge costs by maintaining two sets (currently m+ outlaw & raid st assassination). Guess if I want to run assassination with my current gear I can't really get around reforging stuff 😦

[lone junco]

@sullen pagoda did you try getting a 420 wep like HonKHoNK

[nocturne gate]

shall i trust dungeonslice simc for m+ and go full crit?https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kqG79CE5mBPVCh3EpP9dMs

[spice surge]

For aoe situations crit is the best stat yes

[dark crag]

@sullen pagoda or another socket

[lone junco]

^ yes. extra sockets on extremely high ilvl gear tends to help

[dark crag]

Or a cephalo jacket

And i got neither of the 2 but a 420 dagger

[sullen pagoda]

i got 6th time now SS ruinous bolt chest now

its actually depressing

[misty edge]

Hey I got that one yesterday

[lone junco]

I have like 4 EB/DD hats.

[misty edge]

Does having 3 echoing blades change when we use FoK at all or just still at 4 targets?!

[lone junco]

4 seems high unless you are like 3dd

guide will prob have your answer

[misty edge]

I was just going off the guide I only have one DD

[lone junco]

in M+ you want 0 DD

[misty edge]

Hmm I’ll have to look at what else is on that row now

[lone junco]

i dont know the exacts with 2-3EB but its prob 2x target

[misty edge]

Ok cool thanks man!

[spice surge]

2 with EB
3 without anything
4 with dds

[lone junco]

I have medium crit levels and 2t is pretty shitty. but I do it anyway

[vast forum]

thing is, EB increases fok dmg even if you don't crit

[lone junco]

sure

which is nice

[vast forum]

but i agree

feels shit

[lone junco]

im like 33-36 crit maybe a bit higher with dice and ench at the same time

I dont see the 55% numbers

[warm sable]

3xEB 2xTtK 1xSS or maybe to put 2xEB 2xTTK 2xSS ??? for m_

[spice surge]

either works fine

[nimble tartan]

These guys don’t sim 30k st yet 😂

[dark crag]

Who?

[fresh robin]

dps outlaw is pretty spammy and braindead but man.. the CDR on kidney/gouge - you really feel the difference

so many interrupts, i hate playing it but it just feels so much stronger than sin

[nimble tartan]

Outlaw the hardest rogue spec prove me wrong

[dark crag]

The core is not hard but you have some delicate moments from time to time

And it gets very fast sometimes, almost too fast

5 buff with ar and lust, gcd capped

[weary lagoon]

!Azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[lost grotto]

So Hi guys im not sur about Master Assassine or Subterfuge its sims only 300dmg diff so what do you guys think about it i got 3x Nothing Personal and 3x Double Dose

[civic palm]

Do what you like the best if you think the difference in damage isn't large enough to influence your choice.

[lone junco]

@lost grotto personally I use 1ss 3dd 2np. and use subterfuge cause I like the opener better. not critting during ma makes me cringe.

but ultimately you should probably pick the one you perform with better. if you perceive the 300dmg irrelevant.

[dark crag]

I mean your supter opener can be as good as ma, all you need to do is crit

[tropic ocean]

Wat

[quasi pewter]

night stalker would be best if you just critted 4head

[cobalt pelican]

you don't really have the globals playing subterfuge to say if you just crit it's the same

[dark crag]

The difference between ma and supter is just the vanish use. Ma vanish to crit, supter vanish later to get empowered garrotes. But when supter crits after tb with env mut env, you gained more

You have the same globals, energy gains use

[quasi pewter]

i mean ma does not get you best potential openers it just makes you get decent openers more often

if you take subter and ur envenoms crit in vendetta its >>>>>>> any ma opener

[dark crag]

Ma litterally just adds 3 sec +50% crit everytime you vendetta vanish

[quasi pewter]

ma in itself isnt strong but subter is only good with shrouded and dd is really strong so you take ma

[dark crag]

Supter can use dd too, like 3dd 1ss 1 np 1bbi or whatever combi

[quasi pewter]

ofc

but you dont play subter with 0 ss usually

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4WVd226RTW5ThQjRZFA1AN

[dark crag]

Thats correct

[quasi pewter]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nM4eJSfLqLBTxbvvJGjCMV

look at this

subter for ss is way more gain than ma for normal build

[dark crag]

What many don't see is that ma can be super unlucky at times

[cobalt pelican]

the variance is shown on the sims..

[tropic ocean]

ss is suboptimal with 3dd traits

[cobalt pelican]

yeah, one out of a few pulls you'll get unlucky

[tropic ocean]

You will lose 1 op

[cobalt pelican]

that doesn't just apply to ma

that applies to the entire game

[spice surge]

Yeah you sometimes get unlucky with MA

but speccing subt makes that unluckyness guaranteed 😄

[hollow stone]

Less lucky

[dark crag]

Take a coin toss as an example. After millions of tosses it will be like 50.00001% and 49.00009%. Will you get the same in like 20 tosses?

[quasi pewter]

wow nightstalker actually doesnt sim that bad

400 dps below ma

[tropic ocean]

using subter over ma for pure st w/o lots of downtimes is not really an option due to itemization sadly

[dark crag]

How many of you tossed a coin now? Be true

[cobalt pelican]

i don't have coins i'm too poor

[fathom echo]

hey guys is SS + EB still the best traits for M+

[dark crag]

A mix and match of eb ss ttk bbi for different affixes and dungeons, yes

[azure basalt]

MA vs sub literally is just do you want to go for the theoretical highest sim or do you want a consistent opener

I'd rather just gamble for the lucky MA crits

"lucky"

[dark crag]

Caution before you start the "best ma use" discussion

[azure basalt]

arguing against math is like saying the earth is flat

[dark crag]

Env mut env? Tb env mut? Mut env mut? Start now

[fathom echo]

also for multi target stuff how many targets do you rupture usually for energy regen and should i also be garroting once my subterfuge runs out

[cobalt pelican]

in a real world though you'd have to run like

5million iterations of a sim before sub has the highest

[dark crag]

Around 4 is the number of bleeds you need to be energy neutral

[cobalt pelican]

in a normal iteration count the max is usually roughly the same above the mean as with ma

for example in my current gear ma is 27857 mean, 32368 max and subterfuge is 27120 mean 31286 max

[dark crag]

Subter with 1 ss?

[cobalt pelican]

the only real reason to take subterfuge on fights you can't benefit from multi target is comfort, which is fine

yeah, 1 ss, the simmed gear if you're curious: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uYCULqBWy7qqL91SPKjgHp

[tropic ocean]

@cobalt pelican wow

pvp chest is actually better than pve chest for pve

[cobalt pelican]

i think it's the same as cephalohide no?

[tropic ocean]

no

it has shield trait

[cobalt pelican]

does cephalohide not

[tropic ocean]

nope

[cobalt pelican]

i only got it cause i was so sick of rolling

so i saved a warlords trophy for like 10 years

[tropic ocean]

cephalohide has vampiric speed or gemhide

[dark crag]

Current raid lacks rp a lot

[tropic ocean]

the problem with subter vs ma for stjust is that with current gear

[fathom echo]

also rotation question if have 2cp and TB is up is it worth using to hope for a 2-3 CP crit or just mut again and hope i dont get 3 cp and use it next envenom

[tropic ocean]

u cant take subter+ss without sacrificing on other trait

like u want 3 dd 1 np

and 3op

[cobalt pelican]

just use it and try to be better prepared for your next tb, probably

[tropic ocean]

just cant take ss without dropping one of the others

[quasi pewter]

imagine having 3 op

[dark crag]

You use tb at 2 cp, if at 3 after you just mut

[cobalt pelican]

even with ideal gear i don't think it'd probably be close for non-nelfs right now

not sure on that though

[dark crag]

Use tb on cd, finish at 4+

Plan ahead

[hardy mulch]

pool a bit before tb is off cd

if u need it

[fathom echo]

and you only use galecallers for garrote right?

[civic palm]

Nope.

[dark crag]

Use on cd

[quasi pewter]

with exsang before exsang otherwise on cd

[trim forge]

The pvp vs pve trait comment above makes me want to be a fly on the wall whenever Blizz talks over how they assign traits to gear

[quasi pewter]

and in exsang case also on cd actually

[dark crag]

Don't forget that sims are sims and fights are fights

[tropic ocean]

@trim forge you do not enjoy to get better stuff from pvp for pve?

[civic palm]

You use PVE stuff in PVP all the same.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Unless the two are completely removed from one another it's fair game.

[dark crag]

Like gw2 pvp

[civic palm]

Ye.

[hardy mulch]

i actually didnt mind gw2 gear

everyone was the same

[dark crag]

Panic strike shadowarts vampiric rune thief, good times

I forgot the exact build and name

But it was fun

[tropic ocean]

@civic palm except I guess its easier to get pve stuff than it is to actually get that chest

[civic palm]

@tropic ocean There's at least more of it, but I do think that the ratio is probably fair considering the numbers playing each mode.

[tropic ocean]

idk what rating you need to unlock that chest

but theres also really good ring from pvp with haste/mastery

[cobalt pelican]

it's a weekly reward item from the chest above 2.1 rating in anything i think

the ring can titanforge its way to glory though

[tropic ocean]

the main issue I see is

theres literally no chest in raid or m+ that has dd ttk op

and resounding protection

[peak compass]

Is this opener in the assassin guide correct? Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Vanish
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom

I thought you were supposed to vendetta then TB then vanish on a 4-5 cp envenom

[tropic ocean]

yes

[civic palm]

It is correct.

[tropic ocean]

you have this opener which is the more steady dmg one

or you gamble with building cp and tb before vanish

then vanish>envenom>mutilate>envenom

if all 3 crit its good

if not its meh

[peak compass]

is that just for opener or just every vanish?

[tropic ocean]

as you choose

when you use vanish again with vendetta u can decide again to vanish>tb>mutilate>envenom or build cp tb>vanish>envenom>mutilate>envenom

[peak compass]

But is that opener worth doing if you have 3 double doses? ur doing mutilates in ur TB without the envenom buff which means double dose wont probably proc

[tropic ocean]

u do mutilates in your tb window anyhow

to build cp

[ashen zenith]

@cobalt pelican How come no BBI on your Gorak Tul's?

[cobalt pelican]

i just didn't add it to the sim, it's currently on np for jaina

which is a questionable decision probably anyway

but i think it's better on a ~1min30 p3 phase which is all i really care about right now

[tropic ocean]

its def less rng dependant

[cobalt pelican]

yeah

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ngDM7FbrXwHfZ9QB#fight=18&type=auras&ability=280204

we had this pull and the other rogue in the guild got 0 procs in p3 on our closest attempt

[ashen zenith]

Yeah for sure. I was just wondering, as it often sims better but never seems to live up to it.

[cobalt pelican]

on a fight like mekka i'd use it, i think for my current gear it's like a ~150 dps difference on a 5min patchwerk fight

[tropic ocean]

but then there are pulls in p3 where it procs 2x after each other

and you're like

niecsu

[cobalt pelican]

yeah, he has pulls where it's managed to proc 3 times somehow

it's just too frequent it procs on the ele or nathanos or something

or just decides it doesn't wanna game t oday

i'm playing spymasters right now too cause i think 3x np berserking potted vendetta dot is probably the best setup i have

[ashen zenith]

I've never really considered swapping it for NP, still early days on Jaina though not seen past intermission. PepeHands. Jelly of your chest though.

[cobalt pelican]

something like https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wW3yQm2dxDQL5ThkkCMZt6 and just general comparing pull to pull seems like it's probably a reasonable choice

[ashen zenith]

Hmm. Okay will give that a go then. Thanks. 😃

[tribal marlin]

NP is what you want for jaina

same for Cabal tho

You surely want to minimise the RNG on the Jaina encounter. You will have tons of good pulls wrecked because of icefall so that you really want to maximise the burst you can provide during the first 30sec of the phase 3.

It's same idea on M Cabal : You surely might found some crazy setup with EB or what ever that sim noticeably ahead.
But in fact you just want to make sure you pull enough damage during your 9stack vendetta window so it's better to play like 3ss 3np or 3ss 2np 1dd (for Cabal)

[ashen zenith]

I really hadn't thought of it that way. But I definitely agree it seems like the better choice that considered. Will have to look at what pieces I have.

[tribal marlin]

Well imagine you have a bad day on Jaina, stuck on p1, you do a few p3 but you get wrecked by icefall and that 1 pull everything goes fine but you wipe because half your dps didn't get their procs

quite a sad story isn't it 😄

[ashen zenith]

Getting to P3 would be a good day for us. But I get you. 😛

[tribal marlin]

good luck for Jaina it's still a difficult fight

we killed it 7 time now, today we literrally 3shoted her but last week we spent 2 night and didn't make it ....

[rocky ruin]

guys what is better ask mr robot or simc?

[modest jasper]

simc.

By about 20 miles.

[strange python]

Guys! 19,6k dps ST with 398ilvl it's fine?

[modest jasper]

Taken out of any context that number is rather void.

What fight? What group? etc.

If you have logs I can give them a look.

[strange python]

Thats what Simc said, no log

Coz I switched from Outlaw to Sin

[modest jasper]

Well, the simc number is... just a number. Is 19.6k good? Can't tell. It's not as much as others sim but at 398 that is also not to be expected.

Take it as an upper limit to what you will normally be able to do on a pure ST fight without movement.

But a sim will never be "good" or bad as it does not reflect you actually playing.

A sim is there to make decisions on gear upgrades in a perfect void.

[strange python]

Yeah, you are right

[modest jasper]

Well and to measure your epeen I guess :' )

[strange python]

Thanks

[rigid mango]

Sims only matter for what is best gear wise etc, you shouldn't care about your dps until you come to minmaxing @strange python

@rocky ruin just use raidbots.com, it's super simple and super good

[rocky ruin]

nah im using simc but a member of mine said that she using ask mr robot and it is better than simc

[modest jasper]

Well. Tell them they are kinda... 3 expacs behind with that opinion.

It has been rather... not so good for a while.

[solid nova]

AMR is not more optimal than Raidbots/SimC.

It's just as simple as that

There's a reason we promote one and not the other 😄

[fair hill]

So I have a bit of a dilemma. Got 3 NP 3DD, sim ST is about 24.6K, but on most raid fights like CoS im doing 18K 😦 I have an uptime of about 99.6% on the boss but there is clearly something I am doing wrong

[placid dawn]

Maybe you are not doing your rotation correctly

[tropic ocean]

do you have a log?

[fair hill]

I'm doing the openere and the rotation as good as I can, also using Gale's on CD

sec

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dnkYaWpTB72N9xzf/#fight=last&type=summary&source=10

[tropic ocean]

your garrote and ruptures have <90% uptime

you overbuffed your subterfuge empowered garrote

you only used 50% of the possible vanish usages

[solid nova]

Surprised you dont sim more with MA > Subt

Opener is off as well

[tropic ocean]

you are overcapping combopoints a lot with garrote

[solid nova]

Triple mutilate

[tropic ocean]

so tl:dr keep dots up >90%, let garrote from vanish run out, try to not overcap combopoints as much

[fair hill]

@tropic ocean thank you

Should I take MA vs Subt with my traits? : /

[solid nova]

Sim it

[tropic ocean]

your opener looks a little weird as well

if you use subterfuge you dont do garrote rupture garrote toxic blade

[fair hill]

damn, I think I got hang up on the tri SS trait opener 😦

Haven't played in a while

[tropic ocean]

instead you will do garrote mutilate to 4 cp rupture

then vendetta mutilate toxic blade

like with your opener you waste complete toxic blade window

https://prnt.sc/njf3iv

you refresh rupture in toxic blade window( dont do that) your first envenom hits when theres already almost the completely tb buff gone

[fair hill]

So I basically f-ed up my rotation 😄

I sim higher with MA than Subt...go figure

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pSvqcRBaJMVA4tnXnkVvH2

[tropic ocean]

the standard opener will somewhat look like this (without shrouded traits, and no master assasin) garrote>mutilate to 4cp>rupture>vendetta>mutilate>toxicblade>mutilate to 4+ cp>envenom>mutilate to 4cp >envenom vanish after garrote runs out and apply it again

so yeah you lost a lot of dps due to wrong tb and vendetta usage

[fair hill]

@tropic ocean Thank you for the help, will improve

[tropic ocean]

np gl

[cold meteor]

@tropic ocean is your screenshot from WCL ?

[tropic ocean]

no

from wowanalyzer

[cold meteor]

Thanks :)

[tropic ocean]

less clicks to see opener

[fair hill]

does the opener differ grealty with MA instead of Subt?

greatly

[solid nova]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[solid nova]

Yes

[fair hill]

ty

[rain pewter]

wew

long time no read rog discord

[nimble tartan]

is there a way in plater to have debuffs show in specific orders always

on enemies like our bleeds and stuff

[fallen bay]

Don't think so

But there are scripts that will glow on pandemic

Think you can only set apply time or total duration not what strict prio

Maybe you will find something on wago

But wouldn't count on it

[nimble tartan]

ye prob not its fine

i dont use any pandemic was i just look at the time pepehands

[bright quartz]

guys, i have a question:

let´s assume i have 5 cps:
vendetta (and tb) are both up for 2 more seconds and rupture has 1-2s uptime left,

do i cast evenom or rupture? i would say evenom, but i am not sure if vendetta snapshots for the whole duration of the rupture 😦

[dark crag]

If ruptures uptime is less than the pandemic range, you misplayed

Bleeds are first priority

When you are low on energy, you get 1 extra env in tb window, but run the risk to drop rupture and need too much time to refresh it

[spice surge]

Vendetta does not snapshot

The only thing that snapshots are subterfuge/nightstalkers damage increase

[bright quartz]

elaborate planning doesnt snapshot as well?

[spice surge]

Nop

Nor does your stats, the only thing that snapshots are subt/ns

[bright quartz]

[rose violet]

It’s been like this for a while

[cobalt pelican]

depends how much energy you have, if you have enough energy for a mut global immediately after, i'd envenom, if not then rupture, probably

[bronze kelp]

exsang also snapshots

[spice surge]

Yes it snapshots haste, but that is rarely relevant

[tribal marlin]

Do you guys enevenom after or before TB ?

I mean I have 4-5cp waiting, TB comes up in 2sec, I can envenom Mutilate TB envenom

or wait more and do TB envenom mutilate

[spice surge]

TB buffs envenom by 30%, so even overcapping 1cp with tb is worth it

[tribal marlin]

but then both TB and 1st envenom are not in EP window

[spice surge]

30% is a lot more than 10%

EP isnt very important to monitor at all

[tribal marlin]

I'm not sure you can compare like this

I mean in both situation I will do 2-3 envenom inside TB window

[spice surge]

You're not gonna fit 3 envenoms in tb if you tb at 0cp

Unless you get lucky with crits

[tribal marlin]

so you advice to always enter TB with 4-5cp ?

Well I always try to anyway but I was just wondering If it was worth doing Env Mut TB and start with like 110 energy or wait, start with 150+ but then I waste some globals for some energy that may not even give me 1 more global in the TB windows

[royal lantern]

3cp is fine too cus tb will set you too 4/5cp then

[spice surge]

You're not wasting globals if its before tb

[rigid mango]

I mean do u normally aim for 2 or 3 env in each tb eleem?

[spice surge]

As long as you're not overcapping energy (or missing dmg increase windows) you dont lose dps by not casting

[tribal shuttle]

should i go with 3x DD and 3x NP trait as a assa rogue with MA talent?

[spice surge]

Your first options means you get your TB and mutilate buffed by EP, doing it the other way means you get envenom and mutilate buffed by TB

[fair hill]

@tribal shuttle it sims highest for me, if only I'd do my rotation right

[spice surge]

And since TB and mutilate do roughly the same damage but envenom does a lot more

[tribal marlin]

I mean I still enter TB with 3cp+ since I'm doing Env -> Mut -> TB -> Envom, it's juste that I enter with 110 energy insteed of 150+

[tribal shuttle]

whats the opener sequence for assa rogues for MA talent with 3xDD and 3x NP

[spice surge]

Yes, and doing those envenoms and mutilates inside tb is more damage since they would be buffed

@tribal shuttle The guide in the pins has openers for every setup

[tribal marlin]

it's the same, I still do the same spell in the tb

[spice surge]

So as long as you dont cap energy there is no point using them outside tb

When they could be used inside instead

Env > Mut > TB is not the same as TB > Env > mut?

[tribal marlin]

Env>mut>Tb>env>mut is

[spice surge]

No?

Because you'll have less energy and cant cast as many spells inside tb?

[tribal shuttle]

i am actually curious why

• Vendetta
• Vanish
• Toxic Blade

instead of 5cp >vanish>envenom > mut> envenom etc...

[spice surge]

Because the mut isnt 100% crit

But it doesnt really matter, they're essentially equally as good

@rigid mango Yes you can get between 2-3 envenoms every tb

[rigid mango]

Yah

but what is your aim

I can normally pool to get 3, but is it worth to try to pool for 3 or just consistantly get 2 but 3 with crits?

[tribal marlin]

I think you miss-understand the context of what I was talking about nvm

I mean not you just me doesn't give you all the context

[cobalt pelican]

as long as you can guarantee that you aren't energy depleted enough that you'll miss a global in tb there's no downside really

whether you will or not is likely haste dependant

if you're doing it the exact same way every time

[spice surge]

But theres no upside really either

Because if you have energy leftover you can cast after tb aswell and its the same as casting it before

[tribal marlin]

well I don't know

[spice surge]

But if you miss casts in tb its worse