well then the choice is obvious ๐
#assassination
tropic ocean
strange python
haha ๐
spice surge
And/or ttk
wide hedge
if i go master assassin (3x double dose as well, no suffication), with what spell do i start the fight?
spice surge
The guide in the pins has openers for all talent combinations ๐
brazen prairie
fam does DD and NP scale with mastery?
royal lantern
well, its poison dmg, so yes
spice surge
Yes they scale with mastery
tropic ocean
np is nature dmg tho
brazen prairie
tys
cobalt gyro
damn
strange python
lurker trinket op
real bay
40k garrote crits with it
golden relic
what traits u playing for cabal amigos
spice surge
http://piclair.com/data/dz8ox.jpg
Is what seli is running and i'd recommend something similar
Scent is really good, SS is good depending on how vanish lines up with debuffs, eb and ttk are fine
strange python
Hey guys, I'm runn assa for temple this week with my team. Was just curious how you guys felt about triple ss for Temple?
spice surge
If you get constant restealths then ss is definitely fine
rigid mango
I'm just more worried about 1st and 3rd boss dmg
It's also down to what lvl key and what your group is
strange python
Yeah I have 2ttk and 2 ss 1bbi as of now. Considering the boss fights I think its felt the best this week.
rigid mango
And 1 eb?
rigid mango
Then yeah
That'd be the set up I'd run
Tbh forgot that 1st boss got giga nerfed
it's all down to 3rd boss
I'd take elusiveness if it's a push key
strange python
Interesting, I'll have to go through the pins and find some more information regarding that
thanks man
rigid mango
Doubt pins'll have specific info on it? I think elusiveness is a need for any difficult tyr kr/tos week
strange python
I've been trying to find a straight guide on where it can be useful and where cheat death is a better option. I think it will just come with time and knowing when and where its applicable I assume
rigid mango
yah
But for those 2 specifically
1st boss tyr KR
and galv in ToS on tyr
The dmg reduc is really good
strange python
I just went though MDT on those bosses you mentioned. I think I understand it quite a bit better now.
rigid mango
Just use
strange python
I assume most rogue with practice run it over cheat death
rigid mango
Feint every time you get gold spit
and every time on galv you need to tank the beams
It's a lot of damage you're getting off your healer's back, it'd be highly appreciated
Do you play w peeps on voice coms when you do your runs?
strange python
I don't have a solid five team so it is off and on. I'm 1.3k IO as of now so I'm just learning how to min/max all my specs for dungeons then hopefully find a more professional team
I've practiced and know all my roles etc as of all I feel like.
untold stream
Is the new trinket useful on progress Jaina ? The damage taken won't be too much ?
untold stream
Okay thanks
tame sun
Which one is correct executed? Left or right?
patent leaf
urban tulip
I usually go with the left opener on Jaina to make sure to fit in the full duration of the 3rd TB before the first ring of ice.
civic palm
Anyway, the right one is correct as there's no reason to hold TB for half a second other than being slow.
Yeeeee
He also has more CP going into the right one.
tame sun
right one is 2x envenom +1x mutilate, left is 1x TB, 1x Env, 1x Muti
tropic ocean
either build cp tb>vanish>envenom>mutilate>envenom (gamble) or vanish tb mutilate envenom
1st one can be way higher but also way less if unlucky with crits
civic palm
MA is 3 seconds, not fucking w/e that is.
wispy iron
anyone in crucible hc at the moment ? ๐ just need the bonus roll for trinket ๐
turbid zealot
how would the master assin opener go?
wispy iron
check pins --> ravenhold guide ; -)
civic palm
turbid zealot
ty
civic palm
though it might be worth it to ENV @ 3 in MA but don't take my word for it.
turbid zealot
then just go to the normal of reapply dots at their specific times?
and pool for tb
?
stark ingot
do i need to use lurkers before i apply bleeds in opener or is ok to hit it with np/tb
civic palm
bleeds are dynamic
stark ingot
so only snap shotting rog has atm is garrote fro mstealth?
civic palm
Talents basically yeah.
Subterfuge and Nightstalker.
and they only apply for the initial duration.
stark ingot
oh really, i thought you could pandemic garrote with 2x garrote fro mstealth
civic palm
Yeah, because Subterfuge has a duration.
turbid zealot
so when ivanish with ss i want 2 use garrote twice?
civic palm
If you need to yeah.
stark ingot
i try to dump cp and have enoguh energy for 2 garrot yea
when vanish and vend are up
civic palm
can either
Vanish + Garrote - Garrote - ENV/Rupture
or
Vanish + Garrote - ENV/Rupture - Garrote
The second one gives you another second of empowered Garrote > _> but really you're not gonna notice it.
placid dawn
if you space out the garrotes even the first one gives you extra garrote uptime
stark ingot
is 3x eb only worth it in high keys, i went on wcl and most ppl are running 3eb 3ss but here people talk about dropping down to 1
wispy iron
well I do play 2eb, 2xttk, 1bbi, 1xss
stark ingot
im just doing around 15 and my boss dmg is rly bad with 3eb 2ttk 1 ss
wispy iron
i guess its worh to drop one eb for bbi if you have it ...
wispy iron
yea sure, it does, and it depends on your group as well ... I would say if they need full aoe I guess its better to go OT
stark ingot
i run with ret pal and frost mage
gleaming crater
Not sure if its the right topic here, but is it worth taking Engineering as rogue?
wispy iron
@stark ingot so I guess assa is ok ๐ just focus bit more for ST ... @gleaming crater I think helm is OK ... if u dont have other azerite, beside that combat ress ... but I have jwc for ring so : ) all proffs are ok
gleaming crater
For now I only got alchemy just for the 2 hours flask
strange python
MB belt is a really nice thing to have as an Engineer, along with battle rez for death skips in m+/emergencies.
hushed crane
Does anyone here know if the new Mastery trinket from Uunat cancels the untouchable crit buff?
rigid mango
I was talking to omr when he was testing it
he tested it earlier that day and it removed, but later it didn't
think it turned out that it infact didn't remove stacks
So they are usable in conjunction
hushed crane
very nice
already got the boots, trinket would be almost 500 dps increase
so stupid that you can loot the other one for tanks
as a dps
rigid mango
Trinket is insane
For anyone pretty much
Feet are good
But a piece with correct stats at a 5-10 ilvl higher is a bit better iirc
hushed crane
I had 415 crafted ones and the feet were a 200 dps increase, but they also have a socket
muted jacinth
only snapshotting is exsang. subterfuge garrotes damage is still dyanmic with buffs. exsang however snapshots your current haste once you cast it so the full duration of bleeds will keep that same amount of haste (if lust falls off during bleeds that have been exsang they will keep the lust haste)
rancid blaze
Normal build on Conclave or any specific azerite gear that would be good that this fight?
spice surge
Just full ST
dark crag
Spec internal bleeding, kidney 1 add with full hp and no cc immune
rancid blaze
ok thanks
elder gulch
does the toy that turns you into a boss affect you in any way? (slower attack speed, animations etc..)
meager nebula
no
it only alters your appearance and attack animations, it does not affect your actual performance
round harbor
do yall popo vendetta on the wall or hold for like a minute and use on jaina?
strange python
I never popped it on wall
always saved it on p3
any damage before p3 doesnt really matter
marble hemlock
depends on your guild. if youre just getting to the wall, theres no reason not to pop vendetta on it to make sure you get into p3 and get some progress there
you should never ever wipe to not having enough wall-dps and waste a good try
once youre getting a bit more comfortable in p3 and are getting closer to a kill, hold vendetta (ideally after talking things over with the raid so they know wall damage will be lower now)
round harbor
if you hold it and pop at insta on jaina p3 will you get two vendettas in p3?
on average killtime *
drifting cloud
no
even if you use it on wall you wont get it back
or you might for like 5seconds or something
drifting cloud
theyll do 0 dmg in last phase
round harbor
and im running 3dd/3np for gigga burst
strange python
wall damage will most likely not be a problem
you dont get a vendetta in p3 if you use it on wall
or you might but it'll be shortened
round harbor
strange python
so just use on Jaina
round harbor
thats our second time killing the wall
marble hemlock
sure, but any try where you couldve gotten into p3 and get some good progress going, but didnt cause wall didnt die, is just pissing away the try
drifting cloud
yeah but as a rogue you almost for sure wont be using it on wall ever
round harbor
wait you wont get another vendetta if u use on wall?
drifting cloud
unless you have some giga stacked ranged comp
strange python
yes rawr
round harbor
thought the intermission was like ~30
marble hemlock
for an actual kill you will most likely have to get some efficient dps-spread during wall between the wall and the boss
but its better to get into p3 consistently even if you know you wont have the damage, and then adjust wall-dps, than the other way around
drifting cloud
I mean if ranged doesnt hit jaina youll never fail killing wall
marble hemlock
once everyone knows how to play p3, adjusting wall-dps is a minor thing. if you wipe a couple of times to wall not dying because too many ranged blasted boss, you will reach p3 with no experience and less frequently too
drifting cloud
kinda silly for you to go giga on it and then when you switch cds around youll do less than half and you suddenly have problems
better off swapping ranged off it
marble hemlock
ye
round harbor
our ranged are killing jaina during the intermission
marble hemlock
we had affli/demo and 2 mages on jaina, destro was havocing her too, rest was on wall
drifting cloud
like I said the only time ive seen rogues actually vendetta wall is when they have super stacked ranged comps
so ranged is super blasting on jaina meanwhile
drifting cloud
because without cds as a rogue youre gonna be competing with tanks in last phase
round harbor
ya so for now im just gonna continue vendettaing the wall
and get to p3 just to see it
and then if i get another vendetta at the end the good if not then w/e
strange python
drifting cloud
fight has a static duration, you wont get another one
or like I said at best youll get 3-5s of it
strange python
yeah after that the second wind orb explodes and you're pretty much dead
marble hemlock
thats basically the enrage, ye
2nd orb doesnt get soaked
so once it explodes, which is 20secs after cast, ~1:40 into p3
either the boss is dead, or you are
strange python
I think it'd be better if you talked to your officers
"look, me and the ww shouldnt be using cds on the wall, we should better assign damage to it"
wall damage gets fixed
you dont do tank dps on p3
and you kill the boss
yay
marble hemlock
tbf, it doesnt matter if he does tankdamage to the boss in p3
strange python
then obviously on pulls where someone dies or there's a fuck up, you use vendetta on wall
marble hemlock
if what he loses is made up for by a ranged or two blasting boss with BL in the meantime
marble hemlock
but i doubt it is, since vendetta/assa burst is one of the strongest bursts in the game right now
marble hemlock
i mean, if they carry on the wall and that means 3 more ranged DPS can smack the boss, it might be worth it, idk
hard to say without knowing the raid
strange python
ye dunno
can always try to pool for wall
your damage on wall can be very significative with properl pooling
marble hemlock
its just hard to see from the log-screecap you linked
strange python
that's my raid
marble hemlock
who is actually on the wall
marble hemlock
nah, i mean ryler
strange python
ah fair
drifting cloud
yeah but if you wanna practice p3 just focus wall with ranged
or pot on it or whatever
marble hemlock
ye
marble hemlock
like, if you continuously struggle to actually kill the wall
marble hemlock
you should really suggest to your RL to just have more ranged swap over and pop some more CDs to make sure you get to see P3 more often
marble hemlock
because you will need some more experience in that phase
you can always readjust dps and cd assignments at a later stage once people are more comfortable
also, your healers should DPS the wall more :x
marble hemlock
theres really nothing to heal in that phase
marble hemlock
unless you have a super late transition
in any case @round harbor you definitely seem to lack some of the better classes for the wall (marksman, mainly)
during our progress, hunters carried on the wall, together with DH
so you should definitely assign atleast 2 more ranged to it to dps it fulltime
drifting cloud
yeah and hunter is like so beast there because they sacrifice nothing
marble hemlock
or ryler
drifting cloud
they get another trueshot in last phase
marble hemlock
not sure who asked the question initially ๐
strange python
was rarw
strange python
wall?
strange python
show p3 jaina dps
I wanna see if I beat you
on my first kill
oh nvm your gear was really bad when you killed it
i forgot
feels bad
strange python
why
round harbor
since it takes too long for pets to go from jaina to wall
strange python
wait what
round harbor
he cant swap effectively
marble hemlock
@strange python
strange python
are you not phasing right next to the wall
round harbor
we are
strange python
therefore the pet is already next to the wall?
strange python
the pet then has to run all the way to the middle
round harbor
like when range swap backj
strange python
jaina teleports
round harbor
ya
strange python
then
the pet runs to jaina
from the wall
why would he not hit wall
the pet is at point A. Jaina and wall are also at point A. Jaina teleports to point B. Instead of attacking wall he moves pet to point B, losing valuable seconds of dps
why
civic palm
Pet's roll around like semi-sentient potatoes now.
round harbor
one sec in pull
marble hemlock
in any case, BM does shit dps to the wall
strange python
not really
second hunter and third hunter are bm
they're doing about same as me (first rogue)
marble hemlock
spruced up by everybody else slacking
marble hemlock
but ye idk
round harbor
ok so basically our strat atm is range dps jaina, melee on wall. when the ice thing gets close the range come back in and hit wall to finish it out
strange python
lowest I have is 649
yeah mate that's everyone's strat
but the pet is AT the wall
when you start the phase
strange python
mate
round harbor
i agree
strange python
but why is the PET
AT JAINA
TO BEGIN WITH
pet is at the wall
jaina teleports mid
round harbor
cause he is hold to hit jaina in the intermission
round harbor
strange python
when the pet has to move middle
round harbor
just saying whats happening
strange python
why is your guild making him do that
that's
the r word
I'm genuinely annoyed at your hunter
marble hemlock
thats not a trial problem tho
round harbor
so he is being pasive and not telling RL whats best maybe
strange python
I hope every single hot pocket he ever eats is too hot on the outside but still semi frozen on the inside
round harbor
oh idc
marble hemlock
but the wall should not be the responsibility of 2-3 people
round harbor
we are world irrelevant
marble hemlock
which as it seems right now, it is
round harbor
no secret there lol
strange python
I mean
it's a massive dps loss
valuable dps loss
for the hunter to be on jaina
that's what's bothering me
the rl is shooting himself in the foot
round harbor
ok so ill tell him bm hunter stay on wall. and seli hunter doesnt play mm
ive asked
marble hemlock
so yeah, id just suggest to talk to your officers/rl after the raid, maybe on a day thats not a mainraid day, and suggest bringing more people to the wall and saving valuable cooldowns for p3 itself instead
strange python
C L O U T
marble hemlock
you shouldnt have to vendetta the wall, WW shouldnt have to karma/ToD it
healers should try to DPS more in that phase, since you get a stack reset anyway and people arent gonna die even if they drop down to 10%. let ground-healing effects and hots do the work instead
swap over 2 ranged to be full focus on wall and just dot jaina, instead of the other way around. that shoudl allow you/the ww to hold CDs which will be more valuable in P3 when you pot it
mages should pot during the wallphase since they will do shit damage in p3 anyway, but its actually better for them to pot intermission where they drop a big combustion with BL
you can probably still kill the boss even with what youre doing right now, just means that in p3 the ranged have to carry more weight, which is a bad idea since they are subject to heart of frost, melee are not
marble hemlock
well, if you dont struggle with wall, keep doing what youre doing, and if you feel like you might run into dps issues later down the line, you can always switch things up a bit
hollow stone
Just dont vend on wall until they go "guess we'll put another dps wall". Those are the magic words
round harbor
yeah but i dont wanna waste p3 exp
round harbor
wince weve killed the wall 3 times, but never gotten jaina kicked
drifting cloud
I dont get your stance, if you want p3 exp
just everyone ignore jaina and hits wall
you can also interrupt her with lock pets
like it makes sense, but its also kinda silly to do things in a way you almost surely wont do on the actual kill
round harbor
he wants it kinda close to what it will be on real pull
that way we dont have to relearn how much dmg we need on wall vs jaina
drifting cloud
its also kinda obvious when ranged has to swap to the wall
round harbor
like we are gonna lean more into wall now, but not everyone
drifting cloud
because the ice gets close enough so jaina goes out of range anyways
round harbor
yeah
drifting cloud
and if you see youre struggling they can just swap 3s earlier
but like Seli said that part of the fight is super comp dependant
round harbor
which changes nightly
brittle sparrow
so at 5 cp dots don't need refresh and TB up
do you evenom TB?
or just evenom and shoot for a 3-4 to TB evenom?
not sure if TB bonus to evenom is worth holding for longer or not
marble hemlock
overcap CP with TB and just envenom
brittle sparrow
ok
wasn't sure if overcap was worth it or not :\
been playing 3 NP 3 DD with MA really enjoying that
just wish exsang was stronger ๐ฆ
marble hemlock
well, itll allow you to get 3envenoms per TB fairly consistently, whereas envenoming at 5cp while TB is up consumes your CP, as well as consuming all the pooled energy by having to mutilate 2 more GCDs, so then youd either get TB with low energy meaning no 3 envenoms per TB, or pool again which leads to having to refresh bleeds again and/or delaying TB too much
brittle sparrow
yeah that makes sense
marble hemlock
just overcapping a single CP solves all those problems, plays a lot smoother and the ingame results are much better (atleast for me, and every assa rogue i know who does the same)
brittle sparrow
How much do you typically pool for a TB window?
ionic dome
I just hit 120 a couple hours ago. I'm currently 365 still using the Hierloom Daggers. Where's the best place to get some Dags fast.?
brittle sparrow
I have been shooting for 100+
no WQ daggers I take it?
I would just look at whatever dungeon drops haste/crit or haste/mast daggers and farm that
meager nebula
if you don't care about dropping a bit of gold you can just buy some 340 crafted daggers temporarily
meager nebula
us alliance emissaries are terrible
ionic dome
Thank you guys
marble hemlock
tol dagor or underrot would be crit/haste and crit/mastery respectively
finite yarrow
we able to cloak the dmg from crucible trinket?
meager nebula
no
marble hemlock
you can immune-cloak a single tick
round harbor
im canceling at 22 seconds
seems it really ramps after taht
only in p2/p3
though
p1 i just full yeet it
steep obsidian
i dont have one so i don't have that decision to make yet
maybe thats a good thing
frigid swallow
what was the rule of thumb for offhand nondaggers again?
still sitting on a 355 and no luck in raids so far
but there are some 360+swords/fists in wq's rn
frigid swallow
so i can take a fist/sword if its a statupgrade?
tropic ocean
you should use raidbots
if off hand weapon dps > stats i dont know it from my mind
for main hand weapon dps is pretty much > all
unique monolith
Hey Guys , which talent do you suggest for m+ ? poison bomb or crimson tempest?
tropic ocean
poison bomb is pretty braindead so can always be chosen
unique monolith
i dont want to play brain dead
tropic ocean
crimson tempest is good if trash lives long enough for it to tick out but is more complex to use compared to poison bomb
cobalt gyro
you need mobs ot last quite a long time to be worth
unique monolith
How is it more complex , i mean i have to use it in specific time ?
tropic ocean
u basically use it 1x at the begin after u spread ur 3 garrotes
but its only worth if mobs live for a long duration
unique monolith
so its not good for this week which we have tyran affix instead of fort , right ?
cobalt gyro
depends
unique monolith
the other question is , im new as rogue which pvp talents do you suggest for world pvp and world quest?
unique monolith
ok sry
strange python
anyone ever play around w/ 3 ttk/2eb/1ss?
if so, how do you like it? considering running it in m+ for the time being
currently using 3eb/2ss/ttk
real bay
using 1eb 3ss 1bbi 1ttk , decent enough for bosses as well
dark crag
When in doubt go 222
vast forum
trait choice depends on dungeon
solar bramble
๐ฆ what's the likelihood we can convince blizz to let us use non daggers in our offhand (transmog sword onto daggers is probably too far knowing them). it's such a pain to need 2 400+ daggers for sin but only 1 400+ for outlaw/sub .. . . . . it's our only spec that's so heavily weapon locked
spice surge
You need two daggers for sub too
dark crag
Sub wants 2 daggers too
spice surge
Or well, you dont "need", but its a lot better
solar bramble
off hand attacks that valuable for them? for the attack speed + passive combo points i'm guessing
just a quick check. tis a sub question afterall
spice surge
Yes, sub gets a cp every 4:th or 5:th auto, so attacking faster is better
dark crag
Sht wants fast aas
solar bramble
now just to buff subs ST without needing a funnel lol. not a fan of being soo far behind sin to such a point it feels unviable. then i'd be more comfortable with rogue (since i despise roll the bones, and the alternative has been nerfed into ground so much it's not good . . . . . still higher ST than sub though lol)
i like to be able to play at least 2/3
spring iron
So how is sin performing in pvp atm?
fickle grail
solar bramble
When you have a 400 dagger and 2 400 swords but only a 370 for 2nd dagger. . . I have a 2nd 400 dagger now though. . .only at 402 atm. Just passed 400 this week due to obsurdly easy m+ affix spamming
unique monolith
Hello there , is there any critc and cap for assassination ?
solid nova
Nope
ionic dome
Whatโs the best place to farm for Daggers.? Just anywhere where they drop, or is there a certain exact two I should aim for.?
solar bramble
I like to savor daggers (crit haste) but they're droprate for me has been abyssmal
hollow stone
Ilvl for daggs is much more important than them having the right stats (for mh at least). Oh is more about the stacks and ideally aocket
solar bramble
Tol dagor*
ionic dome
Okay nice. So iLev>Stats for MH. I assume for the Agil
hollow stone
For the weapon dmg
solar bramble
Mh dls
solar bramble
Dps
ionic dome
Which are what BTW.? Main stat prio
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
hollow stone
Emphasis on the note
ionic dome
Dope. Thanks man.
hollow stone
So basically always have your highest ilvl dagg in mh
ionic dome
I just hit 120 last night. But my mains guilds ran me through a decent amount of keys and all my stuff is is 385+ from one night. But I still have the god damn Heirloom Daggers on lol. Cannot find any
Got a million swords. But I hate Outlaw.
hollow stone
Rekt
dark crag
Set lootspec to assa
ionic dome
It is set to Sin lol. Iโm not new to the game. Just new to Rogue lol
I main Spriest. This is my first alt ever and itโs literally the most fun Iโve ever had.
Outlaw was lame to me. Hope for good rolls. or was boring.
dark crag
You can't imagine like how many "ohhhh"s i got
hollow stone
Lol. So true
ionic dome
I secretly wish Sub was really good.
Hmm, now you have me second guessing myself on the loot spec.
dark crag
๐
ionic dome
98% positive it is. Just strange that I havenโt got one dagger
dark crag
Hope for emissary weapon cache
ionic dome
๐๐ฝ
ionic dome
So I watched the Dratnos guides. Theyโre from three months ago, so the AZ stuff was obviously older. Iโm looking for another good guide to watch thatโs current.
How is Marcelianonline or Dvalin or Dalaran.?
Iโm only asking because I know some people make guides that are not correct. Just want to make sure I have the correct info
spice surge
When youre looking for specific info and rankings i'd recommend writen guides, such as the one in the pins here and/or the wowhead guide
Since they are more easily updated to reflect changes
Also herodamage.com
ionic dome
Yeah okay. I just like seeing videos as well. I take a look.! Thank you
raw cobalt
What traits do you guys use for m+?
rigid mango
TTK/SS/EB and a BBI if you have goraks
Any mix of the 3 is fine
I'd recommend 3 ttk 2 ss/eb 1 ss/eb
ionic dome
How come Iโm seeing people garrote twice.? Is it stacking due to SS.?
strange python
2nd row talent sub. 3sec extra "stealth" and doesn't put Garrote on CD
spice surge
Also
-Pandemic this term relates to reapplying buffs/debuffs. When a debuff (like garrote) is refreshed, its remaining time (up to a cap of 30% max duration, so 18x0.3=5.4s for garrote) will be added to the new buff. Primarily used to give leeway to reapply bleeds, however can also be used to make bleeds last longer.
From the pins
ionic dome
Yeah I know Pandemic. But the pandemic range is the last like 6 seconds or so. I just wasnโt sure what the point of double Garrote in the opener was.
spice surge
However can also be used to make bleeds last longer
That is the main point of using it twice with SS+subt
marble hemlock
garroting once gives you 18seconds of an empowered garrote. doing it twice, makes it 23.4seconds
ionic dome
Okay.
marble hemlock
and is worth more damage than the next-best GCD you couldve used during your opener
ionic dome
Say on a trash pack, I would Garrote three different targets. But I saw that people were Garrote two. (Double Garrote one/ single the other.
Which is the proper way
ionic dome
I really don't know. I'm not trolling. I'm just trying to get this down
rigid mango
I mean
solar bramble
also an extra 3 cp from ss is nice for the opener. . . . . though it's more than 18 + 5.4. since you have the gcd in between as well (neuances, but it matters)
rigid mango
if the last target
will die
within 5.4 sec
then obv getting that extra is worth on a target that wiull live longer
ionic dome
I spread to three targets, but other Sins have been tellign me to open on one, garrote a second target and then go back and garrote the first target again
rigid mango
wat
ionic dome
Yeah, that's what I thought. I was just checking.
solar bramble
i garrote 3 targets in AoE for the FoK poison application to also improve my energy regen
rigid mango
Like
if it isn't 1/2 high hp targets and 1 really low that will die super soon
then there's never a reason to just waste that much of those garrotes
ionic dome
Okay. Thanks. ๐
ionic dome
And on trash packs, assuming they'll last the duration, would I vanish to reapply Garrotes.?
Like on ST
rigid mango
Yeah, vanish is a valuable dps cd
ionic dome
Or save the vanish for boss/ ohh shit moments
rigid mango
for sin
solar bramble
if they last, and boss isn't close
ionic dome
Okay nice.
rigid mango
I mean
If you're pushing and dps is ur issue
use it for that
but I wouldn't worry too much about it too much during m+
solar bramble
if you don't think you'll need or use vanish within that 2 minutes then theirs 0 reason not to (unless mob is gonna die in 2-3 seconds ofc)
solar bramble
i've used vanish > garrote just to apply silences to multiple targets in a pull. but that's not about the damage
rigid mango
you'd want it for bosses
solar bramble
if i'm lusting on a boss i'll do all i can to keep vanish lol.
solar bramble
3x ss + vanish garrote + lust just adds a lot
rigid mango
if it's not, depending on the dungeon/situation
I might not
If we're for example doing invis shit with 2nd boss AD
solar bramble
it depends on the danger of the boss. if you need vanish . . . . . . do a cost/benefit analysis. if you get more benefit fromt he cost
rigid mango
and we shroud in I just vanish pull out
Then I'll save vanish for that
Yeah I mean you should have it for every boss on tyr
100%
and try to during fort too
but still
There are A LOT of bosses that are ridiculously easy during fort
And you'd rather just use them during hard trash etc
subtle tundra
Im trying crit + mastery for m+(only played for haste until now) and im struggeling with energy. I did a 15 and it was ok but it wasnt really worth it imo
subtle tundra
7% haste makes me cry
solar bramble
7% haste sounds utterly painful
rigid mango
For comfort I still sit at 9% ish haste
It's quite handy during harder tyr bosses too so
subtle tundra
ill switch some sockets to haste then maybe it will be better
rigid mango
I wouldn't
Since that's just wasting dps
You only really notice the difference on bosses
on most packs the diff isn't noticable
spice surge
The majority of m+ is (regardless of tyrannical) trash mobs. And on trash you should be gcd-locked if you play correctly
solar bramble
Maybe go up some on tyrannical weeks? And low on fort?
subtle tundra
the dps is fine on bosses but again, it feels bad
solar bramble
Lol when feelycraft trumps theorycraft. . Story of my life
real bay
doing worse dps on trash feels even more bad..
rigid mango
^
on any trash you won't feel the diff
between 7 and 20
only that ur dmg will be lower
real bay
what you feel is a lot less crit
rigid mango
Aye
and master
y
and damage
I just stay at 9% because comfort and cba regemming a lot of my shit between days
so
solar bramble
If your with a group that pulls no more than 4-5 mobs on any bolstering or explosive (regardless of if it's bad practice) would a little more haste be fine due to high ss uptime and less FoK targets?
rigid mango
4-5 mobs
is still enough
to gcd lock
aslong as you put bleeds out your energy reg is enough to gcd lock you
real bay
rup snipe low hp mobs for energy
solar bramble
In which case haste is very minimal to FoK crit bonus
rigid mango
In which case haste does like
nothing
compared to the value of both crit n mastery
solar bramble
I already rupture snipe. Especially on reaping when it's stupid easy to do some
Only if I'm not altered capping too fast
rigid mango
I run 3/2 ttks most time so doubt it's worth rup sniping when instead could be pumping env
solar bramble
Then envenom
real bay
quite situational
solar bramble
Agreed. Tis all situational
real bay
wtb a few sockets and ceph to break 28k
spice surge
Just get the trinket from crucible ๐
rigid mango
need a few more of those and lurkers to get 27k :/
real bay
i have lurker, 27.5k now
spice surge
Typically sockets are like 130-150 dps
rigid mango
Yikes
Stupid question, but how do you guys sim sockets?
When I do it in top gear it just assumes that it's the 1 already socketed, doesn't change them out
spice surge
@rigid mango Check the box that says "replace gems and enchants"
Otherwise it wont change :p
rigid mango
Ah
There you go
Told you it was a stupid question
Thanks anyways eleem
Also does raidbots premium let you sim inf iterations?
spice surge
No, "only" 11M iterations
fresh kernel
You'd be surprised how fast you can reach that when evaluating pieces.
gleaming viper
hi there, do u know why dice trinket 405 simc (patchwerk) better than golden plumage trinket 400 ? following herodamage i would equip plumage
spice surge
If you have 2 on-use trinket they trigger a 30s cd on the other one when you use one
So if your other trinket is also on-use then adding a second one is most likely not gonna be optimal
rigid mango
Sims also don't take into account effective usage of plumage w vend iirc
spice surge
wat
trim forge
Do people always use poison bomb or do they swap out for M+?
tropic ocean
you can use what gives the best results/feels best for you
all 3 talents in last row are good for m+
trim forge
Gotcha ... not using poison bomb def feels better for reaping
tropic ocean
hidden blades crimson is nice as well if u need the aoe
mint peak
Sometimes use HB for the memes but it isn't bad, gives you something to look at instead of just passive PB procs
trim forge
Yeah, crimson feels really solid to me ... stack some ruptures and go to town. I normally play outlaw but I am trying to get better at sin.
tropic ocean
crimson is nice on demand aoe and if it can tick out brings good numbers
gets essentially better the higher the key is due to mob hp
trim forge
To your point I found it more staisfying for reaping ... everything else seems yo die quick or I an busy enough FoK and rupture spam.
rigid mango
That's one of the worse parts where I'd use it atleast
tropic ocean
tribal marlin
Ok I get it
But If it is not considered as AoE ability, does this mean the Elusivness part of feint apply to crushing doubt ?
tribal marlin
Blizzard trolled us I guess xD
so with the talent it's 35k+35k to handle right
still pretty high damage :/
rose perch
engineering belt shield is a must-have
and then get a tracker for PW:S and you can know if you have to cloak or not
tribal marlin
One last question : Is cheat death maximum absorbtion (which is 2x Rogue's life I guess) is calculated over -90% debuff, mean if I take for than 3x27k damage it does not proc ?
I might save cloak for clearing water ball :/
elder gulch
are there any m+ communities people can join in WoW?
elder gulch
I'm in the discord, but how do I get in one in WoW? I have 1850io
gleaming viper
@spice surge ty ! the other trinket is galecaller ๐
gleaming viper
hum but one is 1min cd and the other is 2min :/
spice surge
Generally dont use two on-uses
If you had a dice use that and the one of your two on-use that sim the highest
modest violet
- higher itemlevel, 2. your stat weights will vary depending on your gear, herodamage uses a "standard" set of gear which will almost certainly be a little different from yours
wispy iron
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nMCgungjKzVU8Qa6bW9mQv .... finally 5 bonus rolls for stupid trinket ๐
frigid swallow
does any1 have some videos for m+ shroud skips?
frigid sleet
anyone tried to log some m+ with untouchable boots to see whats up with uptime ?
tranquil silo
Just looking at details it was like 80-90% my last run
frigid sleet
sounds quite good
gleaming viper
@spice surge @steep obsidian ty guys
civic palm
I know... me
spring iron
Is 8% haste bad?
civic palm
Yep
civic palm
10% for M+, infinite for Raids
spring iron
Why only 10 for m?
civic palm
Haste isn't very good for AoE settings as Venomous Wounds makes up for it faster than any amount of Haste would. But you still want some Haste for ST and building to the point where you have no energy issues.
spring iron
I do have energy issues...
I just got my m10 galecallers today!!
Does gear have better stats at m19?
civic palm
Yeah everything scales up to 425 at the moment.
midnight flower
@tropic ocean yo thatโs what I have the aoe/st pumps
visual quartz
higher keys dont give you over 400 no
I think higher keys should give bonus chances at forged gear though
tall pelican
if you were to be 400 item level would you go outlaw or assasin in mythic plus
outlaw better for trash?
as trash in 80 percent of the instances kill taht quicker you get to bosses
late plinth
full flame
having just gotten to the point where master assassin is better, can someone explain the opener? specifically when to use TB? I've seen before vanish and after.
quasi pewter
pretty sure its in the guide
you can also just look at sample sequence in ur sim for openers
or just check logs of good players although thats not always accurate
rancid blaze
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Vanish
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
civic palm
@surreal torrent @fleet anchor
I might have failed to find it but;
Has there been any testing into finishing during Vendetta / Vendetta + Toxic Blades @ 3+ CP and not 4+ CP?
With or without Master Assassin.
visual quartz
I do it always before and pray for rng, more fun that way
round harbor
@rancid blaze why would you vanish without having at least 3 cp?
At 3 cp you vanish the envm mut
civic palm
Should probably be a MUT before or after the Vendetta.
civic palm
:3
round harbor
I find my opner change like every pull
Depending on crits
Like vanish tb envm mut it consistent as hell
But vend tb vanish envm mut envm is the dream
civic palm
I am willing to finish on 3 after Vanish, V - TB and getting like 4 fucking ENVs in is nice.
Very rarely is there a 2 and it feels baaaaaaaaaaaad.
round harbor
I mean yeah math
But at 3 cp a vanish tb is gonna be +2cp ya?
Or at least it feels like a 100% chance
civic palm
4-5 yeah.
Only way you get a 3CP after the first Vanish is if you MUT before/after Vendetta and get 2 out of it, then 1 out of TB
Also regardless of the crit rate I am willing to sac the 1CP from TB maybe critting and getting the 5CP ENV after Vanish.
stable pine
Whatโs everyone boss dmg in key? I feel like im pulling pretty low
bleak spoke
been doing g m r v m tb vanish e m etc
i used to do the mutilate before vendetta but kinda figured that if i don't cap when i vendetta it's whatever
sand gust
hey can assass spec do as much aoe as outlaw
or no
the problem i have is i can do 70k aoe but single target around 16k to a boss
i mean in outlaw
stuck knoll
Sin is also able to blast aoe with the right azerite but if they spec into that they lose a chunk of ST
tropic ocean
@stable pine just timed 20 atal boss dmg: rezan: 21,6k, volkaal: 20,3k priest: 22,7k yazma: 20.9k tol dagor 21: sand queen: 31,7k jes howlis: 26,2k valyria 27,3k(with bownsamdi) overseer korgus: 28k (with bownsamdi)
if that helps you
2eb/2ss/2ttk
wispy iron
is it worth 2ss or drop one for bbi ๐ ?
tropic ocean
ss>bbi in key in my opinion
theres better options than gorak tul's anyways for m+ so never came to the situation to decide to take bbi or not bbi
wispy iron
yeah gold tasseled for ss/eb, and conclave vest with ttk/eb along iwth flashpowder with ttk/eb
I guess I had some luck for all those pieces ๐
tropic ocean
rn im using
cephalohide chest with eb/ttk
opulence helm ss/ttk
and gold tasseled with eb/ss
2/2/2 rn feels way better for me than 3 eb
if I could I'd probably only use 1 eb and use another ttk
sand gust
yo quick question noob here do rogues have 2 specs like such as when they raid they play assassination then in mythic plus they play outlaw or naw?
rose perch
yeah that's pretty much what I do currently although i've played all 3 in both M+ and raid this expac
stuck knoll
A lot of people follow that but there are people who solely play assa or outlaw
royal lantern
can confirm, really dont like outlaw gameplay and only play sin atm
tropic ocean
or sub
vague portal
what u recommend for a new rogue assassin or outlaw?
stuck knoll
They're super close play what you like if you still can't decide assa is always a safe bet
peak quarry
Are all weapon enchants valid or I shouldn't look at some ?
vague portal
yeah im assassin at the momment but so many ppl saying outlaw and stuff but never played outlaw , fairly new to rogue since i havent played since vanilla on this guy
ashen zenith
Quick, Deadly or Masterful depending on your weights.
peak quarry
thanks
spice surge
Just sim all of them, including gale-force
Its suprisingly not bad for ST (usually on par with the others), but obviously a lot worse whenever you add another target
rigid mango
Would gale-force potentially be better with the boots if damage is frequent enough to get rid of stacks relativly often? @spice surge
trim forge
a
obtuse ruin
is doubledose and NP best traits for ST if I do the Exsang build?
obtuse ruin
ty
golden relic
https://gyazo.com/a04fec16942a5726a27ed7f70eeef1d8 man this is the SPICE
tropic ocean
no ttk no win
golden relic
had ttk gear for ages now, gotten bored so had to spice it up
sturdy python
strange python
๐
tropic ocean
tables have fucking turned
they're not asking if i'm outlaw now they askin if i'm assa
lets go
hearty oriole
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sick cradle
Does Raidbots take into consideration whether to use primary or secondary stat food?
strange python
Do ass rogs EVER run crimson tempest?
rigid mango
It's good if the trash lives the entire duration
so during high fort weeks it could be worth it
trim forge
Why do a a sang build?
civic palm
Why would you or what? What exactly is it that you are asking?
trim forge
What makes you decide that build is the way to go ... is there a math or gear factor or just choice
civic palm
mmm, mathematically no. It's very unpopular to take EX atm but the burst of NRG you get might have applications somewhere.
Toxic Blade is better ST even with multiple Shrouded Suffocations due to SS being worse for Single Target than other traits, so EX is getting beat from a few different avenues.
Venom Rush being on that tier does nothing, as it's just not interesting and/or doesn't interact with other things we're doing atm.
So if Toxic Blade is better in ST simply because of what it does for your poison damage, and because Shrouded Suffocation is beat so badly by other traits, where could EX/SS come out on top?
Fights with Cleave that can make good use out of Vanish + SS + EX; Grong is a decent candidate for this. But even looking at the WCL results for that, EX is nowhere to be found;
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/21#boss=2263&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination
This is mostly due to the add dying too quickly (even with EX it dies with Garrote/Rupture still on it), or too slowly (you have to reapply and get off Grong).
tropic ocean
Currently ttk with tb just performs better in m+
And for raid exsang is not worth it
civic palm
This isn't to say [even in the case of Grong] that EX is bad, as there's a chance that people just bandwagon what they know but I doubt that's the case here. As most of the fight is still single target.
and in M+ there are just better options for traits. You don't need the burst in NRG from EX, so you lose a lot of its' value.
trim forge
Thanks for the detail! I outlaw but realized I needed to get better at the other specs vice play alts><
civic palm
Better being dealing more damage, or having more of the trait be useful to the user.
trim forge
Never could figure out why people did sang.
civic palm
It was very good at certain points in Legion, even with our energy regen being better there.
tropic ocean
It was good in s1 too
civic palm
For example, you didn't EX in Nighthold because we had AP clipping, the tier set, and TB buffing ENV.
I can see EX being used in PVP maybe? But I do not have much information on that.
tropic ocean
But with 2 t1 traits you just have better options
In s1 you basically used 3x ss si exsang was pretty good
Now with eb ttk and ss theres no point for exsang since eb and ss will solve your aoe
And ttk/tb your st/prio
trim forge
Ahhh gotcha
pastel vault
@ionic dome yea decent amount you have question?
rigid mango
if it's about pvp, go to the pvp channel
near pilot
i can see this being pretty dope on our vendetta target
wow that came out small *thats what she said
rigid mango
Depends how long it's for and how fast it stacks
if you're gonna reach decent stacks post-vendetta, possibly not
near pilot
assuming it lasts for as long as a potion does, the stack part is true
stable pine
I just feelsbad on numbers when running 3xttk
tropic ocean
do u still run eb?
with 2eb 2 ttk 2 ss im currently doing 30-40k depending no dungeon which is fine
signal salmon
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
signal salmon
What is ttk?
tropic ocean
twist the knife trait
signal salmon
Ty
bleak spoke
@marble hemlock can i have yoru racing flag shadowstep macro
finally unlocked it haha
median roost
@tropic ocean which azerite pieces do you use for that?
worn violet
wouldnt you want to run exsang on a 3SS 3EB build?
tropic ocean
@median roost cephalohidejacket, gold tasseled epaulet and crown from opulence
marble hemlock
@bleak spoke ```/cleartarget
/tar Race Flag
/cast [@target,exists]Shadowstep
/targetlasttarget
/startattack
/cast [@focus,exists] Shadowstep
/cast [@focus,exists] Kick
steps to raceflag if there is one, otherwise its just a regular focus step+kick macro
if you have both, itll prio the flag tho
can just move the focus lines ahead of the raceflag ones if you want the focus kick to take prio over raceflag step
hot urchin
Sorry for a question that probably gets asked often, but is Subterfuge or MA better for pure ST or all around?
I ask because I know rotation and openers are affected by these 2
marble hemlock
depends on azerite/gear setup, so you gotta sim yourself and compare both talents directly
hot urchin
As well as traits
marble hemlock
MA usually pulls ahead with multiple DD/NP pieces, subterfuge can still sim higher if you run multiple SS tho
hard to say without a sim
hot urchin
Thank you!
And the play style only differs between the two by letting those empowered garrotes tick and fall off? Or do you want to pandemic refresh with a non empowered garrote?
civic palm
Always let Empowered Garrotes fall off.
marble hemlock
oh and @bleak spoke it obviously requires you to have a seperate hotkey for the flag itself ๐
hot urchin
So on pull for single target do you dish 3 out in a row? I think I saw this in a video
And I guess this applies to coming out of vanish too
bleak spoke
@marble hemlock damn you can't do cast @racing flag then can you haha
marble hemlock
not as far as im aware, no
since its neither a hostile target nor a unit youre in a grp with
but you can get around that by forcing a cleartarget, targeting the flag, and then stepping to it if it exists, so if it doesnt, all of that goes moot
but whenever i tried to do a direct @race flag sequencing it never worked, this one does
bleak spoke
ah okay
subtle anchor
does anyone know if our bleeds snapshot damage reductions on bosses, for example if I apply rupture and garrote to Uu'nat when the crown is going out and you deal 50% less damage, does that 50% reduction stay the entire duration of the bleeds or do they ramp back up to normal after the debuff ends
rigid mango
Bleeds don't snapshot
Apart from sub/ss stuff for obv reasons
Our bleeds don't work like ferals'
marble hemlock
and even then, they still update dynamically with all teh factors that are just dynamic damage modifiers
i.e. mekka flying in the air means you still wont deal damage to him, even if you apply the dots before he flies up
marble hemlock
theres a few mechanics that "snapshot" a specific stat (haste with exsanguinate) or damage modifiers (subterfuge on garrote, nightstalker on whatever dot you use it on) while all the others are still dynamic modifiers
civic palm
It's basically only talents that snapshot for us now.
but something like Toxic Blade isn't going to snapshot Deadly Poison applications.
Probably.
ionic dome
Can someone PLEASE tell me what traits I should aim for for keys.? Iโve literally got so many different answers and confused AF.
pulsar ledge
with 2x EB, 2xSS and 2x TTK would you take TB or Exsang for keys?
cobalt gyro
if you have TTK you want TB
pulsar ledge
Gotcha. Thank you
brazen sail
so I got 2xEB, 2xSS, no ttk though on the extra pieces I got. is that enough to make it worth for keys over the ST/MA build? also, we take Exsang over TB if no TTK?
nimble tartan
am i high or did they remove the ability to cancel your lurker's debuff
nimble tartan
really
civic palm
or did they remove your ability to remove the aura?
nimble tartan
i couldve sworn i was cancelling it last week
yeah i cant cancel the aura but i was just poppin it not in combat trying to cancel
civic palm
I believe you might be.
indigo cove
Does applying garrote to a 4th target after subterfuge still revert the damage bonus on the other 3 applications?
civic palm
Nope.
indigo cove
Noice.
dusky jolt
Anyway to view the rotation used by raidbots? Which trinket should I actually be using? I know I should have an active one + passive however, both of these always simmed higher (the passive ones I had were meh and had no socket I guess).
Based on weights, the mastery one I guess?
civic palm
@dusky jolt Run a smaller sim and there is an HTML link here
@ionic dome Gets better with Hate but you will be starved sooner or later depending on the number of targets you have.
dusky jolt
Gotcha, tyvm (:
minor garden
Aoe traits in m+ as assassin?
Or do ST/cleave as they are good at?
Im thinking assa for tyrannical and outlaw for fortified
lost horizon
There's a bunch of options
EB is extremely strong aoe, but no value ST
SS strong cause of restealths
tropic ocean
in doubt 2eb 2 ss 2 ttk
lost horizon
TTK for priority dmg too
minor garden
But i i take eb i habe pretty much the same ST as outlaw but worse aoe and the whole point of taking assa is hone
Gone
If i take eb*
lost horizon
If you pull enough trash back to back that outlaw would starve on blade flurry, EB pulls ahead