assassination

[bronze kelp]

lol ^^ sorry

[solar bramble]

so, curious. how does three Envenom in a TB window work. I always seem to only fit 2 outside of vendetta. more than 2 is generally really close and comes at a cost of potentially not maintaining rupture . . . (unless i 3 cp refresh it as it falls off, to then 4-5 cp pandemic refresh shortly after)

doesn't seem to line up well enough with rupture for the full 3

unless i delay tb

[solid nova]

You're not guaranteed 3, thats why the recommended is 2+

[hazy iron]

Only aim for 2, 2 is a sure thing given you TB at 3CP, and TB with enough energy (I normally pool to about 120 or so)

[solid nova]

And its not worth clipping for 3cp

[strange python]

3 mostly only happens when you get lucky with CP's from mut

[solar bramble]

i never go under 2, . . . i'll generally energy pool after tb sometimes just to make sure the envenoms are both under tb and elaborate planning

i sim 14.1 and pull about 13.6 - 13.8 on a dummy in the same duration. (using the dummy sim). so trying to figure out which aspect i'm not executing properly on

wasn't sure if the 3 tb happened to be one of them

[solid nova]

It wont be, you can see in the APL in your sim how TB windows are actioned

Sim DPS/Target dummy dps wont equate to raid dps either

[solar bramble]

how do i look at that?

oh ik it doesn't

i'm testing it against my dummy dps

for the more realistic comparison

i always pull substantially higher in raids. . . . raid buffs, pre pot, etc.

[solid nova]

On the right handside you'll see "Full HTML Report"

[strange python]

Well, the margain between 14.1 and 13.8 aint big. And you're always gonna have different numbers, due to the nature of the game and its RNG

Crit/procs/etc etc etc

[solar bramble]

my other toons i generally do higher than i sim. so doing lower to me feels like a bigger difference. unless rogues sim is just much closer than the others

[solid nova]

Cant really see what errors you have unless theres logs

[solar bramble]

ya atm i'm just using a dummy for comparison. i'm not good enough in raids currently, i know i'm making a lot of mistakes there. but most of them are positioining and such. till i have those down a little better

it's not like ffxiv where the savage raids are far more direct in yoru dmg output and reading. these have a fair bit more rng to them.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9fVnGWi6Ef7bhL5SRjHw6r where in here is the full html report?

[solid nova]

If you're simming for raid, Im not sure why you'd remove all buffs/modify the default settings

[vivid bone]

fight style: 'target dummy'

[solar bramble]

i'm simming to see how my dmg on the sim to a dummy compares to how i actually do on a dummy. just wanted a realistic comparison of what i'm currently testing to see the difference there

i'm not simming for raid atm. more to see where i am with my general knowledge of my rotation and execution

[waxen cobalt]

Is there a max amount of Echoing Blades you'd want to have? Just returning and got a few pieces that can give me SS or EB and NP or EB and not sure if it's worth stacking EB

[solid nova]

SS and EB are both decent

[solar bramble]

i like having 2. . . . 2 eb, 1 np, 3 ss (for m+ that is)

[solid nova]

NP in M+ is no beuno

[solar bramble]

i like having 1 for tyrannical

[solid nova]

Rather BBI or TTK

Has value outside of bosses as well

[solar bramble]

blood born infusion . . . what is TTK?

[solid nova]

twist the knife

[solar bramble]

oh oh, so the envenom one

do you actually use envenom often in AoE? to add poison damage to FoK/poison bomb? (if your runing poison bomb over CT)

i tend to have CT so it's difficult to fit many envenom in AoE

speaking of TTK, would it be useful to have at least 1 of them if your using double dose traits and focusing on a TB/poison build?

for ST

[solid nova]

For raiding or M+?

Because if you're talking M+ id value DD less than NP

Both are

[solar bramble]

raiding

my m+ setup atm is 3x ss, 1np, 1 eb, 1 blood rite (simmed the best, my other options are pretty abyssmal atm)

the blood rite piece, was that or Scent of Blood

it looks like i hit almost exactly what i sim % wise. except my envenom was 16% instead of 13%. . . . behind about 300 dps. but if you count the last 10 seconds i'm in combat being just poison (takes time for the dummy to have pooison fade and no longer consider me in combat). then it's almost exactly what i should be at.

i'll switch out my helm from ss + np. to the raid drop i got yesterday which would be ss + treacherous covenant

and from heed > overwhelming

[honest bluff]

Hi ! im outlaw rogue planing to reroll to asa to practice incase the nerf is too big i cant find any pins for M+ traits someone could help me a bit? thanks

[solid nova]

eb/ss/ttk/bbi/tradewinds can work too

[tidal rapids]

Hi! Toxic blade for raid and exanguinate for mythic +? It’s correct?

Or in mythic+ with crimson tempest I can use also toxic blade?

[sleek iron]

any of the new raid loot tables worth caring about

[bronze kelp]

@tidal rapids you can use TB or exsang, or also PB or HB or CT in any combination for m+

[spice surge]

@sleek iron Trinket from second boss is good

[thick galleon]

Where can I find the assa trinket ranking? St and aoe

[stuck knoll]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[stuck knoll]

You'll get a more accurate answer from a personal sim

[thick galleon]

Lol how stupid I was last night. Gave a 400 lustrous golden whatever to a druid

Could you pin the trinket list message

[spice surge]

It is pinned

[thick galleon]

Oh, didn't see that.

[tawdry rune]

Can I switch out elaborate planning for potent poisons and get comparable results or not)

[wary ice]

[strange python]

are there any daggers from old content excluding legion artifact that sits on your back?

[solid nova]

#transmog Probably have you covered

[strange python]

ok ill ask there

[golden relic]

hypothetically with the new trinket from crucible, how much higher could this be https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pQHEvD5Px3KJvWrhwR81sx do you think

im guessing abit but not as extreme as some discussions about it

[tropic ocean]

i give the new trinket a 5/7 rating

[devout marten]

Perfect score!

[tropic ocean]

why is noone talking about the pants tho :'^

:^)

or the feet

[devout marten]

[languid ore]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=167866/lurkers-insidious-gift

🤔

Good luck healers

Those last 10 seconds I'm going to need a personal healer

[spice surge]

It doesnt do all that much damage

http://piclair.com/data/n9uj3.jpg

Assuming ingame tooltips are correct

Or well yeah, the last 5 seconds do a lot, but 15s or 20s isnt a massive amount

And as assa the damage gain is lower after 20s anywa

[languid ore]

Yes but I wonder how many in raid gonna be using trinket

With raid dmg going on

Seems like a lot

[bleak spoke]

I’m willing to int to make my second tb bigger

[golden relic]

you can just cancel the aura at 25 sec i assume then or

[languid ore]

Cancel Aura to minimize inc damage and ruin my DMG meters??????

[strange python]

Gonna have to macro a /yell TRINKET POPPED! HEAL ME! into the trinket usage.

[languid ore]

[bleak spoke]

It’s like the sliver one except more obnoxious probably

[spice surge]

Or you can go full meme and go leeching poison

[bleak spoke]

I like it

[golden relic]

dnt need cheat death if u are a perfect specimen anyway

:^)

[cobalt pelican]

if you're not proccing cheat death on cd you're not using your abilities most optimally

please reevaluate your gameplay thank

[smoky zinc]

So I just started raiding on my rogue alt in a 5/9M guild. I'm struggling with understanding exactly when I should be "pooling" my energy

Is it just to prolong envenom's uptime?

[bleak spoke]

Before toxic blade so your Tb isn’t limp

[smoky zinc]

And by limp you mean I'll get multiple envenom's out of TB's uptime?

So generally what's a good amount of energy to have going into TB?

[spice surge]

Its more a question of when shouldnt you pool, rather than when should you pool

[granite rampart]

yeah before toxic blade, and you can also pool to about 50 energy prior to using envemon to try to get another envenom off during elaborate planning window

[spice surge]

Unless you cap energy or combo points, you dont lose anything by waiting

Sometimes you want to use abilities earlier (because a temporary buff is about to end, such as tb)

[bleak spoke]

It’s also not necessarily bad to Tb at 5 cp

[spice surge]

If you dont have a reason to cast the spell now, then its probably better to wait and cast it later

[smoky zinc]

Oh really? I haven't been using TB at 5cp

[bleak spoke]

And it’s almost always better to order envenom after Tb than before

[smoky zinc]

That makes sense

I just find myself constantly trying to keep envenom's buff up if I don't have it

But I think that ultimately leads to me not getting as many envenoms into my TB window as I could

[bleak spoke]

The biggest impact from envenom uptime is double dose

[smoky zinc]

Yeah, and I have two of it

[bleak spoke]

You can drop envenom buff and not lose any double dose procs

[tepid ridge]

got 2 setup choices for M+ push as sin (20+) can't figure out

3ss/2eb/1ttk or 3ss/2eb/1tc

[bleak spoke]

I’m not 100% sure if this is accurate but I think you should mutilate immediately following envenoms in the ep window and hold at high cp if you’re going to pool or clip ep if you’re not, absent stuff like lust/vendetta’s start

[smoky zinc]

So what I'm taking from this is that the EP window is the one I should be focused on keeping up as high as possible

Not necessarily the envenom one

[bleak spoke]

Nah you can’t keep high uptime on either ep or envenom like you can on bleeds

I’d say you want your windows to be as impactful as possible instead

[smoky zinc]

How do I maximize those 4 seconds of EP ?

[bleak spoke]

No bleed refreshes in Tb windows with the most casts of envenom, as many mutilates in the ep window as you can manage

As many mutilates in the envenom window as you can manage

[dull compass]

Sorry, havent played in like 4 months, is Opal still the go to stone in the Opulance fight ? How do I activate the bonus, by just FoKing all mobs when they spawn ?

[bleak spoke]

Use fok yeh

[hollow stone]

For "min maxing" you pool constantly like eleem said. If you dont cap cp or energy, and dont let bleeds fall, you dont lose potential dps. Ideally you have high energy and 4-5 cp going into (or after using) tb. Then you dump in tb window. The same logic applies outside of tb windows tho because of env buff and dd interaction

[dull compass]

tyty

[hollow stone]

So if you are looking for absolute minmaxing, you spend A LOT of time pooling

[languid ore]

Going opulence as sin? Wow. Brave

[bleak spoke]

Yeh so you should almost always cast your mutilates immediately following your envenoms

[smoky zinc]

Gotcha

[dull compass]

yeah, got bad gear, glad I found a decent enough guild after 2 days of playing again

[granite rampart]

opulence as sin you’re just a ruby slave

[smoky zinc]

so basically

[hollow stone]

Dont worry about ep. The only time ep matters is when your in a cd window. And then you want your env to clip ep at the last possible moment

[spice surge]

Its not like sin is bad on opulence lol

[smoky zinc]

I want to do my bleed maintenance before TB comes up

So that I can go into TB with bleeds that won't fall off, enough combo points to envenom right after, and enough energy to not get gimped in the middle of that buff

[dull compass]

but it does hurt kind of bad after having 986 gear in Uldir and having atleast 8/9 and now I have a hard time getting invited to a pug normal BoF. Q.Q Shouldn't have quit, learn from dire fate

[bleak spoke]

Usually every envenom I mutilate and then there’s a question at 4 cp can I mutilate immediately following another envenom, or should I clip ep to buy more energy - at 2 or 3 cp usually I’ll mutilate again almost immediately and the question usually becomes whether I can clip ep and get a mutilate after envenom or if I should drop ep so I can get potentially 2 after the next envenom

The pressure comes from toxic blade - “how long must I wait to get three in the window exactly” vs “can I get a final DD after 3rd with this amount of energy” usually

[smoky zinc]

What do you mean by "clip"? Like refresh it too early and thus lose part of the buff time of the original?

[bleak spoke]

Refresh it right before it falls of

So your envenom is buffed by the last moment of ep

[smoky zinc]

gotcha

[hollow stone]

Yea. The only time you should be ooe is after a burn window (tb or vend)

Otherwise you hover

[bleak spoke]

Ngl after a log is up the first thing I do is divide my mutilates cast in envenom by my total mutilates

If it’s over 80% it’s usually a stellar log

[smoky zinc]

Yeah I definitely plan to bring my logs here once there's a bigger sample size in mythic and I have a better grasp of the basic fundamentals

In my experience this is easily the most helpful class discord

[hollow stone]

For now. Focus on 95%+ uptime on g and r. And focus on using tb on cd

[smoky zinc]

Yeah I'm pretty good about both of those

[hollow stone]

Once you got those down, then start learning how to pool

Perfect

[umbral fiber]

we might be 3rd biggest edgelord class but we are helpful

😊

[bleak spoke]

Yeh I’d say if you have good uptime on g and r then focus on never casting them in tb

[smoky zinc]

But knowing that TB is okay to use at 5 CP is a change for me

[hollow stone]

Its not ideal. But its ok if that situation happens

You wanna try to avoid it tho

[smoky zinc]

I'm parsing around 60-70 for my item level so it's just about learning intricacies to min/max a little harder

[bleak spoke]

Yeh, but for the purposes of minmaxing it always feels like a huge loss

[smoky zinc]

Yeah I usually only have the dilemma of TB at 5cp after an unexpected crit

LIke a 4 cp mutilate out of nowhere or something

[spice surge]

Ilvl parses are generally meaningless and shouldnt really be looked at

[bleak spoke]

Honestly just making sure you never miss a tb usually nets an 80+

[smoky zinc]

hmm okay

[spice surge]

Since sockets/azerite/weapon ilvl/trinkets have massive impact on ilvl

Like i could get +6 ilvls, but its better for me to have all my 8 sockets

[smoky zinc]

Sure, but that probably effects the top end much more than the bottom end

[bleak spoke]

8

[spice surge]

And there is such a small amount of people in each bracket

[smoky zinc]

Either way my focus now is to never miss TB on cooldown and do a better job of maximizing its effectiveness. And hopefully get some more gear

[bleak spoke]

M+

[smoky zinc]

Yeah I have 400+ in every slot atm. Like 403 overall or something

Quite a few sockets too

Need some mythic or wf weapons

[bleak spoke]

I’d say that’s enough gear that your parse will start to give you a good idea of your performance 🤷

[bleak spoke]

@spice surge a question I’ve been meaning to ask, say there’s like 3-4 seconds left of rupture and like 1-2 seconds left of TB, if I gamble and envenom, mutilate and then end up with 2 cp and rupture drops off, do I give a 2 cp rupture or just mutilate again and wait in misery?

(I’m making the assumption it’s fine to cast a 3 cp rupture in this scenario, which if I’m wrong about, big yikes)

[spice surge]

Idk dependson how much energy you have

And i havent really simmed it, but i think its better to 3 cp rupture,, because if you do a 5cp rupture you have to refresh it during your next tb, which means you lose an envenom later anyway

[bleak spoke]

Yeh the 3 cp rupture feels fine in that situation to me

[spice surge]

Generally its the 4cp ruptures that screw with the timings

[bleak spoke]

Cuz the next rupture rides through next Tb

[spice surge]

Also, the difference between always using on 3+cp and always using on 4+cp is miniscule (like 0.3%)

[marble hemlock]

envenom in tb and 2cp rupture

youre gonna refresh that rupture before next TB

and still got good rupture/tb sync

not ideal, but no risk no fun

[bleak spoke]

8D

[shy kestrel]

new motto

[bold hearth]

Looks like pants from crucible are pretty good

[bleak spoke]

i wonder if the nature damage hit from it will be buffed by TB

cuz yulon's isn't

it's missing like 200 secondary stats

unless it procs frequently i can't see it being good

[bold hearth]

Just going off of sims, the 410 version was a 200 dps increase from my 415 haste/mastery legs

[bleak spoke]

oh are the sims out?

[bold hearth]

Also while it's missing 200 secondary stats, it has mastery which is pretty high up on weights

yea raidbots is implemented

[bleak spoke]

alrighty

[bold hearth]

trinket is a 600 dps increase over my 380 galecallers lol

[bleak spoke]

huh only 600

[bold hearth]

Boots were a dps increase too but those might not be worth

[tropic ocean]

well I guess it depends on the encounter

how much non avoidable dmg there is

otherwise just happy feet pewpewpewp

[bold hearth]

If it slowly decreased as you took damage it would probably be a whole lot better

but you lose all stacks

[tropic ocean]

if it was like eye of command it would be best

loved that trinket

[bleak spoke]

just don't take damage

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gWisnNbTSyESsUXgmntUUN

that trinket slaps

even the heroic version dunks my equal ilevel plumage

and beats the 400 galecallers w/socket

not sure about legs or boots because if i'm low health and legs proc i'm assumign it wastes the dps component of it

which could happen when i'm not actually in danger

boots seem to work very poorly on a few fights - champions, grong, jadefire, opulence, conclave, rastakhan, mekkatorque, stormwall and jaina to name some of them

[spice surge]

Assuming boots dont work with trinket too

Which makes them pretty bad

[ripe nimbus]

The new items are kinda pointless. Maybe if u havent cleared BoD yet but they arnt good enough to be better then gear with stats and ilvl in 8.2 except maybe the trinket but have fun trying to get TF when 8.2 comes out and ur guilds proggin.

[bleak spoke]

nah they come base 425 from mythic crit

the trinket that is

though i guess then it just becomes a socket hunt :^)

[ripe nimbus]

Yes but u will be replacing all ur 425 pretty fast in 8.2

The gear will be used for like a week or two.

[bleak spoke]

yeh, but will probably be fun for parse stuff if you get lucky enough to get it and healers aren't depleted ig

[languid ore]

8.2 is that close?

[ripe nimbus]

If thats ur thing i guess they have a use but like for me. Were done BoD. No one really cares about parses at this point. The gear from cruicble will have little use for us and even less in 8.2

[bleak spoke]

yeh, it's not like the trinket's gonna be used in m+, that's scary af

[ripe nimbus]

Like im glad i will have 2 bosses to prog on till 8.2 but really from what ion said the bosses are gonna be pretty hard first boss around mekka difficulty and last boss jaina difficulty they prob should of made them easy so people who are still proggin in BoD could use it to get gear to help them kill jaina and stuff.

Gonna move this discussion over to wow general tho

[spice surge]

I mean, 425 is basicly new hc levels

[bright smelt]

what's people pref macros for tricks, mouseover or on focus?

[cobalt pelican]

named target usually

i have a mouseover seperate but i rarely need to use it

[bright smelt]

assume you don't pug overly much then (?) or changing in the macro all the time?

[cobalt pelican]

i don't really pug too much yeah, i'd probably use party# for m+ if i did and focus for raid and just live without the focus frame

[bright smelt]

just asking since I've been stuck with the focus frame for a while and figured there must be some more effective way to do it

[lost horizon]

I've just been using @party1

And have my party frames set so that's always tank 🤷

[bright smelt]

I'm so confused though

always have mine set as me>tanks>healers>dps

still changes tanks to diff party # every dungeon

[distant lava]

if tank is party leader

@party1 will always go on him

[vast forum]

@ripe nimbus new raid and increased ilvls aren't coming for at least a few months, getting CoS gear will still be very useful

[bright smelt]

ah I see

@distant lava cheers

[ripe nimbus]

@vast forum wow general

[visual quartz]

Does anyone else use a mouseover for Step. I like it but large hitbox bosses/enemies mess with it sometimes.

[ripe nimbus]

That seems un.....optimal

[golden relic]

Have a regular target step, mouseover step, focus step

[ripe nimbus]

That seems un.....necessary

[strong needle]

You seem un...open to talk about ss macro 😉

[ripe nimbus]

Possibly i just dont see why u would need all that

[golden relic]

All their own

i find it nessacary

some would disagree

[peak walrus]

cookie cutter talents/traits for m+ atm? was a sub main but spec fucking sucks and outlaw is boring as hell, so trying assa out and i mainly play m+

[strong needle]

I don't use any, but if it makes your life better then who am I to judge

[marble hemlock]

any combination of ttk/ss/eb, atleast 1ss/eb each. 2212221 as a static build, if youre running multiple SS go exsang over TB, if you want more aoe go CT over PB

[prime quail]

whats more worth in raid with 3 NP and 2 SS

exsang or TB

[sturdy python]

TB usually, sim will give you a better idea

[marble hemlock]

depends a lot on gear, but TB/MA oftentimes still pull ahead even with multiple SS pieces

only way to know "for sure" is to sim and compare different gear-/talentsets

[spice surge]

Getting 2cp from MA mutilate with bbi up

[royal lantern]

me everytime

[simple meteor]

oh thats me too

[mighty elm]

anyone know off of their dome, is any item an upgrade from next raid for us?

[royal lantern]

probably the trinket

[mighty elm]

are we able to sim the items yet?

[spice surge]

Yes

[mighty elm]

ah 👏

[royal lantern]

the legs could be good too? idk the proc rate, and if its worth it the lose of secondarys

[golden relic]

whats the "low chance" on the bolt

[royal lantern]

thats wath i mean

is it like once every 1min? once every 2min? 30sec?

[sturdy python]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=295812/storm-nimbus

1ppm+haste

[spice surge]

That just seems bad

[golden relic]

yikers

[spice surge]

Quick napkin math has it doing roughly 400 dps (with my ingame tooltip)

Whereas its missing like 160 stats, which is worth far more

[warm parcel]

Espec aoe

[sturdy python]

Yeah Harlan’s is 1 ppm without haste

But a massive stat difference

[spice surge]

The boots seem decent if you can have em up reliably, but it (probably) has anti-synergy with the trinket

Which is actually good, so we're just gonna use that instead

[golden relic]

looking foward to the trinket

cant wait to die then blame it on healers

[bleak spoke]

@marble hemlock do you have a macro that sets my target as my focus target

for mouseover if there is one, etc, for m+ kicks

[golden relic]

/focus mouseover

[bleak spoke]

err what if i want it to focus my target if i don't have a mouseover

[golden relic]

/focus

idk if it works to put both in a macro

perhaps

[bleak spoke]

o, found it online somewhere

[marble hemlock]

theres a button in the hotkey settings ingame

[bleak spoke]

wait really

[marble hemlock]

ye 😄

http://puu.sh/DfdvM/01c8e78815.jpg

[bleak spoke]

o i ended up using this: /focus [@mouseover,nodead,exists]; [@target,exists]

is there a downside to mouseover focus target

[zenith gust]

does crimson tempest also regenerate your energy? or only rupture and garrote do?

[civic palm]

no

yes

[zenith gust]

thx

[light kestrel]

So, I sim better, with 2 SS 1DD 1NP 1BB when I use TB instead of Exsang. What gives.

[civic palm]

anyways EX isn't great unless you are using for a specific mechanic.

TB synergizes too well with DD, NP, poisons, ENV, etc.

[light kestrel]

What's odd is I sim worse if I swap out one of the SS with another DD, I could have 2xDD, 2xNP 1xSS 1xBBI but it'd be a dps loss to use TB with it

[shy dust]

Are you using subterfuge or master assassin

[light kestrel]

I simmed with SS and MA as options

Subterfuge/MA*

[rigid mango]

exsang is neiceh

nieche*

[civic palm]

niche*

[rigid mango]

w/ever

[civic palm]

w/e*

[light kestrel]

Think I'm just going to stay where i'm at, I enjoy Exsang playstyle more

[rigid mango]

I pref dealing dmg

Exsang can be better if you're running 3x SS with sub

but only then, I believe

[bleak spoke]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6omLyrMTbk4crDyYVDqrKV the conditions required to make exsang a thing

that's a high tyrannical ST sim

[rigid mango]

Eb on ST 🤢

That harlans tho

[cobalt gyro]

its a tyrannical sim tho

so you'd want eb

[rigid mango]

yah

doesn't mean it looks nasty on a ST sim

[livid tide]

I made some Plater scripts for our dots in panemic range. Maybe they are usefull for someone 😃 https://wago.io/yDvTFlahj

[lost mist]

Vanish>TB>Mut>Envenom
or
TB>Vanish>Envenom>Mut>Envenom?

what do u think, and why?

[civic palm]

TB after Vanish is more consistent, damage between the two is very similar.

[broken obsidian]

Is there a guide specifically for assassination in m+? or should i just look at the ravenholdt guide and pay more attention to multi target things

[cerulean walrus]

It should be in there

[rigid mango]

if you have questions that you don't see answered, just ask away

[spice surge]

The wowhead guide is also a good place to look for information

[hasty brook]

Feels like I have high burst for a bit (averaging 35k plus ) but then I drop off. Do I have the right traits on?

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/proudmoore/Crotchanator

[near pilot]

NP is going to give you burst

since it buffs vendetta

[hasty brook]

I saw it picked the most. Should I go another route or keep the 3xNP stack? I know this can be subjective.

[near pilot]

but yeah your traits are fine

[hasty brook]

ty!

[near pilot]

just how it plays out

35k burst at 396 is pretty good

[hasty brook]

yeah I get pretty luck I feel like with crits. Then a spriest passes me..

[near pilot]

sounds about right

[hasty brook]

Thanks again for taking a look at it.

[midnight flower]

I find for m+ I run st build and use full aoe gear and it evens out with outlaw in total dmg done

By the end of the dungeon

You blow up bosses makes up for the lower dps with trash

[tropic ocean]

?

if you mean using dd/np traits, that will be far behind from using aoe traits

by using st traits theres no way you will keep up with outlaw rogue by the end of the dungeon, unless he is significantly lower skilled than you or undergeared

[strange python]

Does "nothing personal" stack enery regen?

or just the damage?

only damage

Thx

[spiral beacon]

in m+ would 415 mekka trinket be better than 410 galecallers? maybe galecallers for tyrannical and mekka for fort?

[arctic harness]

I would prefer vigor, since you dont have to stand in it, if its close in dps

[tidal spindle]

I have 1 DD, 1SS, and 2 EB.. Do I go with Toxic Blade or Exsanguinate? New to rogue so lookin for some pointers

[vast forum]

For m+?

Depends what your grp needs but tb is pulling ahead lately

And you wanna replace that dd

[tidal spindle]

Yes for M+

Sorry I didnt specify

[little forge]

I can get 3SS 2EB or 3EB 2SS for m+. I presume the 3EB setup is usually better?

[rose perch]

I think it's fair to say usually better but honestly it's probably close to 50/50 - in Kings' Rest and Temple I'd go with the SS setup pretty much every week, and on weeks like this one we're just ending now (Bolstering/Explosive) I'd also prefer 3SS to 3EB.

[little forge]

That makes sense. Thanks

[distant lava]

Why woud you prefer more SS , for priority dmg ? Cause i feel like SS makes it harder to kill same hp mobs at the same time, which isn't very good for bolster

[strange python]

For more garrote damage on prio targets

[thick galleon]

Oh Dratnos it's an honor to meet you here. Great high m+ guides.

[rose perch]

@distant lava eh I think SS still counts as priority damage - like yes if you're pulling 5 enemies with the same health it's not great, but if you're pulling enemies with different amounts of health you just put garrotes into the higher HP ones - and your vanish becomes a powerful tool to pump damage into specific targets that are high on HP

[distant lava]

Ok makes sense , ty for the answer ^^

[vast forum]

Also, if u have 5 mobs with same hp

Garrote 3

Spam envenoms into the other 2

[lusty saddle]

Are any of the new loot in crucible good?

[royal lantern]

trinket probably yes

idk about the legs

[lusty saddle]

Thinking about boots mostly

[spice surge]

Boots are very good if you dont take damage

Not very good if you do, and you probably are gonna take damage since the trinket is soo good

And since the damage you take from the trinket scales up over time, just having it up for vendetta (so 20s) means you dont take that much damage

[lusty saddle]

i asume you mean Lurker's Insidious Gift?

[spice surge]

Yes

[solar bramble]

is there a reason a sin would open up champion of the light (mythic) with a tripple garrote > rupture > garrote > 4x FoK?
outside padding

[spice surge]

Its only padding

[rigid mango]

That's just going for a high parse

[solar bramble]

figured. since the boss heals them anyway

[spice surge]

Doing anything besides hitting the boss (well, except the add phase if your dps is low that is) is pad

As assa

[solar bramble]

energy regen too technically ya

but idk if it's enough to justify it . . . hard to tell

[spice surge]

Its not worth it

[solar bramble]

the add phase is why i save vanish

if i'm not burning

[real bay]

tfw your guild doesn't just zerg the boss

killing the adds at this point

[spice surge]

Yeah, you could even zerg it week one

[bronze kelp]

tfw a group promoted as "zerg" does not zerg it XD

[lost sentinel]

my guild kills 1st adds, but w/e, a kill is a kill

[distant lava]

yeah we kill first adds on mythic aswell

cause sometimes zerg fails and it just bums everyone out

[nocturne gate]

is there a way to see in logs how many 4 and 5 cp env i casted ?

[spice surge]

Not directly no

[real bay]

we kill adds and stop dps on boss till the aura changes. Afk fun

[sleek iron]

if my sim says that two non-activatable trinkets are a dps upgrade should i believe it

instead of a plumage trinket

[rigid mango]

If sims says something is better

it's probably better

[lone junco]

i mean.

[rigid mango]

Just because a trinket is good doesn't mean any other trinket can't be better given the right circumstance

ttf's etc

[lone junco]

use trinkets have rarely simmed properly.

on cd is not aligned with vendetta/vanish.

[rigid mango]

So it sims worse than it should?

[lone junco]

I dont know what hes even talking about. but historically. a /use on open is probably not as good as a vendetta/use vanish . . whatvver

so yeah. things that take nuance, sim worse than they should.

but it really depends on fight durations as to whether you can align it again at the next vanish .

1.5min trinkets for example are gonna be stupid.

[rigid mango]

I mean I just think he's confused about that a passive trink is better than plumage

even though that's entirely possible

[lone junco]

check some high ST logs with plumage use.

I bet they hold the one at 2min + to line with the vanish.

MA is easier though, cause you dont have that gross long delay on vendetta like we did with exang ss.

[rigid mango]

I mean yeah if you're running ma

it's super ez

[stable oxide]

Perhaps the guy is talking about trinkets with different ilvls :P

[rigid mango]

Yah that's what I assume

[livid tide]

@vague kernel Sry, it just works for plater

[rigid mango]

because not a lot of trinks outsim plumage

[lone junco]

my comment is just at this blanket statement is all.

sims are wonky is all.

[marble hemlock]

well, he did say "probably"

[rigid mango]

Hence

probably

If i was entirely sure I would've said so

but we can't be, like you said

[lone junco]

@marble hemlock hi.

[marble hemlock]

no

[rigid mango]

:)

[marble hemlock]

[rigid mango]

Seli what are you running for m+ runs atm?

[marble hemlock]

always the same

3ttk 2eb 1ss

[rigid mango]

no goraks yet?

[stable oxide]

Personally I would choose plumage over GCB and the Siege trinket

[marble hemlock]

saving up for hood of slithering loa atm

[rigid mango]

so fuck goraks?

[marble hemlock]

that'll come after, probably

[rigid mango]

aight

[marble hemlock]

but rn id prefer

hood

for ttk+swirling

instead of ss+bbi

[rigid mango]

hm swirling that good?

[marble hemlock]

i mean, its bbi light

with longer duration

[rigid mango]

Fair enough

not sure what I wanna reroll to tomorrow

[marble hemlock]

both have OP as well

and with hood id have 3OP

[rigid mango]

or if I should save up

🤔

[marble hemlock]

gonna be 2 more weeks anyway before i can buy

sitting on 4k rn 😦

[stable oxide]

Isn't it better to save up Residium?

[rigid mango]

"better"

[stable oxide]

or do you think they will reset it at 8.2

[rigid mango]

Entirely depends on your situaiton

[marble hemlock]

it wont reset

but new pieces will be giga expensive

[stable oxide]

Perhaps

[marble hemlock]

and we dont know yet whether we will have to rebuy pieces

[lone junco]

we getting a new ring?

[marble hemlock]

nah, it would just be higher ilvl

[rigid mango]

3 SS 3 TTK 3 EB

[marble hemlock]

so maybe theyll add an item that lets you +30 ilvl a piece you already have for residuum

[rigid mango]

Yeah that'd be nice

[marble hemlock]

that would be neat

[rigid mango]

"neat"

[lone junco]

rather 3bbi / sand combo over the 3rd ss

Im pleb mode with only 1 or 2 eb.

perfect outlaw kit, janky gimp sin stuff.

[marble hemlock]

well, id love to drop 1eb and go 3ttk 2ss 1eb rn

but dont have the pieces for it 😦

[primal gazelle]

How do you feel about the two assa rogues in the MDI running 3 eb 3 ss with hidden blades

[lone junco]

pretty sure i can dig up 2ss 2ttk 1eb 1tc.

[marble hemlock]

🤷

speed-key meta isnt something im too interested in

[lone junco]

is that just giga pulls and a fat Fok.

or just pumping each white fok by 20% on top of the 3eb bonus to white

[marble hemlock]

HB provides a decent and consistent aoe boost every 2 GCDs to the very high base-damage you get on fok thanks to the 3EB

[lone junco]

right

better than the scent agi meta.

[marble hemlock]

just not something id feel is worth, when you could also just play outlaw

[lone junco]

gouge is nice

and the acro range is fun

[rigid mango]

hm currently running 3ss 1ttk bbi eb

Wish I had more ttk tbh

Think I'd pref going 2 EB atm

[lone junco]

makes me lol. but I could have 3EB 3DD

which I have no desire to play

[rigid mango]

The best build wdym

[solar bramble]

i'd use at least one ss...... just for comfort

[rigid mango]

well te

for m+

ye*

[desert vault]

heh, finally get Gorak's today and still have to run one SS cause my chest options suck

hmm 3x SS, 2x EB, 1x BB will be fun for some m+ weeks though

[short wasp]

Just a quick but honest question. It seems outlaw is the best dps spec on M+. I personally love Assassination. I was in a +15 TD yesterday and this outlaw was doing 34-40k constant dps. Why would I even continue assassination of Outlaw is that crazy? He was only 2 ilvl higher than me and I was doing 30ish k constant.

[primal gazelle]

well with outlaw rip next patch, i predict alot of 3 ss 3 eb hb meta season 3

[rigid mango]

^

[copper kestrel]

Is the OL BF trait nerf enough to let perfect trait Sin be my M+ go to?
(And is that live yet?)

[primal gazelle]

unless theres new traits thats better for aoe

[rigid mango]

Honestly that could become really strong

[solar bramble]

outlaw isn't dead next patch by a long shot tbh

[rigid mango]

and yes @copper kestrel outlaw will probs not be the best spec

[primal gazelle]

its not dead, but wont be better than assa

[rigid mango]

and sin will probs be

[solar bramble]

it's acutally a buff to 3-4 targets it looks like but a nerf to like 8-10

[rigid mango]

nah

[solar bramble]

it'll still out AoE dps us

[rigid mango]

it's a buff

to 1-3

but nerf 4+

afaik

[marble hemlock]

Its almost impossible to say at this stage how things will look once 8.2 is released. We dont know anything about the new affix yet that will replace reaping, and reaping leaving the pool is definitely gonna hurt outlaw

[solar bramble]

it's all instances of damage. so it depends what blizz does with that. since now finishers and such should also count towards the stack. and at 5 per

[marble hemlock]

There will also be plenty of other class-changes, trait-changes, new neck etc.

[solar bramble]

all casts i should say not instances

[rigid mango]

Yeah

[primal gazelle]

they also mentioned they might favor an affix thats more single targetted (not set on it yet)

[rigid mango]

I understand the changes

[solar bramble]

ya the new traits can possibly make or break things

i'm honestly ok with the blade flurry change. but we'll see how it pans out

[rigid mango]

but it's a nerf to 4+ targets and buff lower than that

so outlaw for raids might be better

but for m+ in general should be worse

[desert vault]

Guess it is back to the 3x EB/SS build this week

[rigid mango]

seeing how most packs are 4+ targets

[primal gazelle]

if you pull less than 4 targets you should prob kys

[marble hemlock]

Theres already situations where Assa is the better choice over outlaw

[solar bramble]

m+ it's a buff for low to mid keys. and a nerf to high keys

[rigid mango]

?

[marble hemlock]

So you can definitely stick with Assa if you dont enjoy playing Outlaw

[solar bramble]

low keys tanks always do individual pulls and it's a buff there. but high keys they mass pull more

[rigid mango]

So you mean

[primal gazelle]

dude imagine pulling each key 1 pack at a time

[lone junco]

the only reason i play outlaw over sin right now, is cause of the restealth. I have gotten lazy and enjoy chain pulls.

[primal gazelle]

id leave immediately

[lone junco]

well that and bad traits

[marble hemlock]

Not necessarily, since doing smaller pulls also means doing more pulls, which leads to BF uptime issues. You will have more damage during BF; but since you have it up less often for trash, that will still be an overall loss

[solar bramble]

likely ya. and ss excells on 3 targets

[lone junco]

i dont mind being a ggg champ with small pack pulls.

just sucks for timer.

[primal gazelle]

SS traits will outpump wits on 3-4 mob pulls anyways

[solar bramble]

exactly

and i have 3 of them

[primal gazelle]

i hope the next affix is priority damage based so i have a reason to play sub again

without making it as aids as infested was

[marble hemlock]

In lower keys (10-15s) 3SS is most likely going to be the best azerite setup, and then just stack it up with however many EB/TTK you can get in combination with those 3 SS

Once you move into higher Keys, TTK starts becoming more attractive

[sleek iron]

my dice 425 and spyglass 415 sims better than dice 425 and plumage 405

should i trust that

[primal gazelle]

maybe a mini boss pops up every 20%, and you can chain it into the next pack

[sleek iron]

or use the plumage with ma/vanish/vendetta

[lone junco]

I just hope the new +10 affix isnt heal centric. as i have said before.

Make the team adjust,

but ST prio burst would be nice.

[solar bramble]

i currently run (with the trait availablitily i have) 3ss 1tc 1eb 1blood rite (simmed best)

[marble hemlock]

Wouldn't be surprised if we see a seasonal affix thats linked to bosses this time around

[lone junco]

would be tough to balance that with fort/tyr.

[primal gazelle]

reaping now spawns during every boss 😮

[lone junco]

it was cleave day, let the next be st pump.

[marble hemlock]

In any case, it won't be as aoe.-centric as Reaping, and that makes things very different to the current meta

[lone junco]

but a Fort uber vs a Tyr uber would be harsh.

[solar bramble]

i'd be ok with a boss focused one . . . but they need to be careful with it. . . . some bosses can get really obnoxious if you add much more . . . like the 3rd boss in td

[marble hemlock]

Reaping is pretty much a nonfactor really

[sleek iron]

my dice 425 and spyglass 415 sims better than dice 425 and plumage 405, are the sims accurate in this case? I'm running a MA build

[marble hemlock]

Kinda felt like overflowing

Yes, sims are accurate for what theyre set out to do. If its a pure ST sim, just trust the sim

[primal gazelle]

omg i forgot that was a thing

[lone junco]

reaping is only a non factor with classes that have un capped target abilities.

[sleek iron]

but someone was saying that the sim doesnt pop my plumage with vendetta/ma combo

[solar bramble]

spyglass and plumage should be pretty close aren't they? if so a 15 ilvl difference would easily make one better

[lone junco]

anyone that caps at a target limit is rip

[marble hemlock]

You can easily check if it does

[primal gazelle]

EB has a 5 proc limit 😛 does that count

[marble hemlock]

I'd expect the difference between Plumage and Spyglass to be fairly small, so you can still run with Plumage for more consistent burst during Vendetta

[sleek iron]

yeah its about 30 dps

[solar bramble]

a full ST focused boss . . . . hmm . . . . . so 3 SS 1 eb 2 dd assass lol

ST affix*

[marble hemlock]

You're not gonna notice a 30dps difference anyway, so just stick with whatever you feel more comfortable with

30dps is way within the margin of error

[sleek iron]

thanks @marble hemlock

[marble hemlock]

Youll never play DD in m+

[solar bramble]

i was suggesting it it was a ST affix and you ended with alot of st. . . . so probably ttk

[desert vault]

3x SS, 1x EB, 2x TTK would be far ahead

[marble hemlock]

Judging (and we dont even have close to the full picture yet) from what we've seen so far, EB is gonna be pretty good simply due to the new neck-trait that grants 35% critdamage

[primal gazelle]

really hope they fix sub

[marble hemlock]

Since echoes always crit

[primal gazelle]

oh yea that

fucking OP

[solar bramble]

how often do you guys use envenom in AoE? i tend not to use it a ton with CT

[primal gazelle]

good for DHs too since eyebeam always crit

[lone junco]

fok env fok env.

pewpewpew

[marble hemlock]

I also expect at least one Assa trait to be removed completely, similar to how they removed Poisoned Wire last time

[solar bramble]

ya the crit trait immediately made me think of assass when i looked at it

[marble hemlock]

Probably Scent of Blood

[solar bramble]

plz for the love of god remove that cancerous trait

[marble hemlock]

Well, DH eyebeam would like to have a word with you 😉

[solar bramble]

and fit to burst for brewmaster

[primal gazelle]

give EB to sub

🤔

[lone junco]

add eb to sub. dont give

[marble hemlock]

Scent of blood is one of the most interesting traits we have right now tho

[solar bramble]

actually eb on sub sounds pretty deadly lol

[lone junco]

I enjoy scent.

more than EB for sure.

[primal gazelle]

i played sub in a 14 UR the other day

fucking 23k overall

embarrassing

[solar bramble]

scent just doesn't do enough . . .. . make the agility much higher and sure

[lone junco]

or turn it to like 500verse

[marble hemlock]

Ye, scent is just not balanced properly numbers-wise

But its not a bad trait at all

[solar bramble]

have scent give agility and haste

[marble hemlock]

Certainly one of the more interesting ones

[lone junco]

verse as a defensive stack would make it cool as well.

[marble hemlock]

Scent would already be fine if it just gave something other than Agi

[primal gazelle]

or make it stack faster

[lone junco]

meh.

[primal gazelle]

give agi each tick of rupture

instead of target

[marble hemlock]

Just give it 50crit/mastery/haste/versa per stack or smth

[lone junco]

crit would make me happy

i could play eb without any gear

[solar bramble]

50 of all stats per stack would be pretty solid . . . . but i'd want more crit or haste/vers

[primal gazelle]

"All of your bleeds now give X amount of Agi each time it deals damage"

[lone junco]

fok fok r fok fok r fok r fok r fok r

[marble hemlock]

Well, its just an idea to make it scale better with our current damage sources, which is largely base-damage increases that do not scale with agility at all

Numbers-tuning needs to be done internally anyway

[solar bramble]

the issue i see with scent, is how rapidly agility is growying to offset the value of substats. since they want ilvl to be king. . . it quickly overshadowed the level of agility scent provides to even be useful

if it remained agility the numbers would need to be rather high

[lone junco]

right Agi is my bottom stat rn. havent run weights in a cleave sim in a while but raw crit and mastery are high.

[solar bramble]

ya, i have pieces that are 10 ilvls lower jsut because of how high the substats are worth. and the higher ilvl has vers

[marble hemlock]

Thats mostly due to ~20-35% of our damage not scaling through agility

Both on singletarget and AoE

[solar bramble]

it's similar for my outlaw where agility is middle of the pack isntead of high

[lone junco]

I wouldnt mind vers if the numbers tuned well, cause having that damage reduction would be sweet in mongo cleaves.

[marble hemlock]

DD, NP, potentially SS, none of which scale with agi

[lone junco]

I enjoy not being dead.

most of the time.

[marble hemlock]

In any case, I'd rather they dont remove Scent

I wouldnt mind seeing DD go

Such a boring trait

[lone junco]

if they remove SS ill just pack it up. R I P bb

[solar bramble]

but ya. substats are always going to be highly valuable. the more agility you have the more the substats are worth. . . add in non scaling traits, it's even more exponential . . . to keep ilvl as king they need to have agility scale so obscene it's not even funny . . . . if that doesn't occur you'll end up with 10-15 ilvl discrepencies at higher dmg output, and trats giving flat main stat as worthless

[lone junco]

turn scent to bota. k thx.

i keed.

but I did like bota

[marble hemlock]

This may just be my interpretation, but I don't think Blizzard really wants to have ilvl always be an improvement. While they did state something like that, I think its more that they want someone who doesnt use sims or similar TC approaches, to still be able to equip a higher ilvl item and either gain dps, or not lose a huge chunk that he will notice

[lone junco]

so if they werent micro tuned to begin with, they can just put on ilvl and be relatively better

noted.

[marble hemlock]

That way people still have stat-optimizations for specific situations, but people who don't care for simming themselves can still somewhat reliable equip a higher ilvl item and feel stronger

[solar bramble]

my interpretation is their catering to the overly casual part of the playerbase that's so focused on ilvl . . . and if you don't have illv you can't do soemthing. and if you have it you can . . . so making ilvl king those casual players don't need to think that their equipment is actually worse even if the lvl is higher

[lone junco]

we have quite a few raiders like that.

oy

[solar bramble]

if i went to my highest ilvl gear i gain like 6 or 7 ilvls overall, would have to look . . . . and take a substantial dps loss

[lone junco]

i mean. sockets

[solar bramble]

i have 2 azerite pieces that are 15 lvls under on their own and worth . . . 4 socketed pieces

[marble hemlock]

I mean, they've stated the "higher ilvl = higher output" as their design philosophy for a few expansions now, yet the gameplay mechanics we find in the actual game dont support that philosophy

[desert vault]

takes so long to sim gem sets ...

[marble hemlock]

With sockets being as good as they are for example

And secondary stats will almost never be on equal level, same as agi

And I'm happy thats the case

[solar bramble]

i don't sim gem sets. i sim stat weights and if it's a dramatic difference i'll swap gems . . . . . . to lazy to do any; further than that for a very minor gain at best

[lone junco]

i go crit.

[solar bramble]

i go crit or haste

[desert vault]

I'm almost over 26k, so trying to sneak over 😃

[solar bramble]

i don't even use an agi gem anymore lol

[marble hemlock]

They're close enough to each other that we can gear for crit because we want better CP gen on AoE for example, without completely gimping our DPS on ST

[lone junco]

Crit is cheaper and i like it for aoe

but yeah, the differences were very very small.

and it works for outlaw

having the socket though, is huge.

[marble hemlock]

Vers is kind of an outlier, but then Vers has a defensive purpose as well so I don't mind it being a bit behind

[desert vault]

If I change to all haste gems I think both crit and mastery out weigh haste in my stat weights

[solar bramble]

so long as i have about 900 haste. i'm ok with going full crit after that even ST. . . i like that haste level for regen purposes and feelygoodcrafting

[marble hemlock]

But having stats be between 2.8-2.4 weightings is still somewhat in line with their philosophy

[lone junco]

my st haste is almost 3.

prob cause of gear.

[desert vault]

my raid gear is at 1651 haste ... little on the high side 😃

[lone junco]

def cause of the 1ss

[solar bramble]

noobe has high crit lol

[lone junco]

neg.

I had high crit in legion

was like 80% mut crit.

[solar bramble]

i mean relative to current expansion

blizz nerfed overall substats into oblivion

[lone junco]

32 prob

[solar bramble]

i'd love an 80% mutilate crit

ya 32 lol . . i'm at 22

haste is higher. mastery is decent . . i need to lose some versatility

[marble hemlock]

Well, if we would scale better with higher CP generation, crits value would be higher as well

[desert vault]

I'm 23/24/37/1 at the moment

[marble hemlock]

But right now its all about the DD procs

[solar bramble]

crits value is insane . . . if i could hit 50% crit i'd be a very very hapy assass

[marble hemlock]

And crit barely impacts that. Our finishers just arent as impactful as they used to be

[desert vault]

I wish I had a better chest piece cause it is holding me back from going to MA which with Blight I think is the key

[lone junco]

DP is limp.

[solar bramble]

AoE would then demand deeper stratagem lol

[lone junco]

so Env uptime is limp

so Crit is limp

grats for white melee being on the chart

[solar bramble]

envenom uptime i have at maybe 70%

[lone junco]

Pro tip "Stay in melee contact"

[marble hemlock]

Env uptime barely matters as long as you cast almost every Mutilate within Envenom Uptime for DD, and you dont need highcrit for that

[desert vault]

so new raid is basically the feet and mastery trinket from last boss yeah?

[solar bramble]

i don't even cast envenom unless i can mut x 2 > envenom during the elaborate planning window. . . . generally under TB if i can

[lone junco]

big meh.

[solar bramble]

just too bad ensang couldn't be buffed slightly and moved to a 1 minute cd . . . . or just x5 speed 2 minute cd lol

[marble hemlock]

Exsang would be fine

If we had an azerite trait that buffes garrote and/or rupture damage outside of what we currently have with SS

[lone junco]

Exang glory was legion sync.

and overlapping stuff on a bota/trinket

right if a vanish SS (24s) was exanged into 12s. over a 10s trinket + a 8-10sec 100% bleed buff. then it is dmg

current iteration is just a little more limp garrote and small energy tick gains.

[marble hemlock]

Exsang isnt too far behind TB, so it just needs a little boost, for example in the form of SoB also increasing rupture damage similar to what TTK does

And we'd be good

Coincidentally, that would also make SoB a better AoE trait 😉

[lone junco]

Exsang doesnt even need to be the tick times.

[solar bramble]

i'd be ok if esang just said double bleed + poison damage and bleeds twice as fast on a 2 minute cd . . . just so it aligned well with vendetta

[lone junco]

Could be a manual bota.

[marble hemlock]

Though I'd love them to get rid of the base-damage increases entirely, or at least tone them down

[solar bramble]

and had relatively the same damage

[marble hemlock]

Would kinda defeat the purpose of Assa being the "sustained" DPS spec though

Having all that DPS locked behind CD usage

[solar bramble]

our burst is already locked behind vendetta . . . . . we have some sustained outside that but it's very much including vendetta

[lone junco]

i dont feel like it needs or was intended to be sustained dps. as much as a pure ST.

sustain during mechanics is something i woulnt want to lose either

[marble hemlock]

Oh yeah, I definitely agree that most of our damage right now already happens within Vendetta

[solar bramble]

for it to be sustained dps. the bleeds would need to do more. melee dps do less. mut do less . vendetta be slightly adjusted

[lone junco]

I loved peak jousting. without losing uptime.

[solar bramble]

melee dps = auto attacks . . .

[marble hemlock]

But we still hold a solid ~20k without Vendetta

[solar bramble]

i'd be ok with aboutr 70% of my dmg coming from garrote, rupture, poison

punished very heavily for letting anything drop. but extremely good at 2-3 targets when you can maintain. but fall off heavily past that

[lone junco]

I loved this kind of peak timing.

[solar bramble]

every 45 seconds or so is a peak timing i can agree with

[lone junco]

I guess Nibren is doing work on his alt.

rupture under melee is really weird to me.

[solar bramble]

almost 80k ST in 2 spots . . . i'd epxect that during lust at the opener if well geared. but also at the 2nd vendetta timing? . . . . almost makes me think he's running ensang . . but envenoms damage is also high

but no other 45 second increase

spikes about every 30 seconds or so and massive spikes on 2 minutes . . . . so a TB build

just trying to figure out how he hit that 2nd 80k lol

[marble hemlock]

vanish on 2nd add wave

[solar bramble]

aaah, tripple garrote

double*

how many adds in mythic?

i've only done heroic which has one

it's a waste of my time to even go to the add most of the time. my range have it down 1/3 before i can reach it lol

[lone junco]

yeah. he probably nailed the vanish gg tab g

@solar bramble 45sec peaks plus that bracer execute ramp 👌

[solar bramble]

have a link for it. curious what his skill execution is

pft when garrote on 2 targets with a 415 scent is less agility than one tc at 400 lol

something doesn't feel right about that

rupture*

[lone junco]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KjQcz6HkPb3yGVnX#fight=17&type=damage-done

[solar bramble]

he almost got matched by feral . . . kind of surprised . . . . really good fearal (100% log for a reason)

pft aliance . . . . shadowmeld > garrote

[harsh sphinx]

when i try it the adds spawn far away from eachother in the back of the room

[solar bramble]

hmm . . . he uses 2 ruptures on the same death spectre within 5 seconds of the initial cast. . . . a very early override into a forced pandemic . . but ya he's using vanish to tripple garrote the boss + spectrue at 2 minutes. and pops 2nd pot + plumage + vendetta + double garrote/double ruptures going giving him a high energy refresh at that point to get more mut/envenom inside the vendetta window. . . . including tripple envenom under all of the above + tb

his seem to be close . . . can they be gripped?

[simple meteor]

no but they can spawn next to boss pretty rng

[solar bramble]

ya only one set looked to spawn by the boss for him. the others he had to shadowstep back to the boss

[proud compass]

Any information on loot in crucible of storms? Any good for us?

[simple meteor]

2nd boss trinket

[proud compass]

Ok thx 😚

[solar bramble]

i think he's got really high haste . . . . . his energy regen looks nuts, going off how close some of his gcd's are with the amount of mutilates chained back to back in quick succession

[simple meteor]

he might snipe raptures on adds before they die

[cobalt pelican]

the horde room for grong is so much comfier

seeing the ads spawn as alliance 200 trillion miles away is depressing

[solar bramble]

hoow many adds? i see him drop rupture on one add. then a rupture on an add a few seconds later. . . . initially thought it was just pandemic since he was leavcing and heading to the boss

could just be 2 different adds

it has the same name though so i thought pandemic

[cobalt pelican]

it'll be the 2 ads

not 100% sure can't see the log from here but in some logs the ads aren't numbered correctly

and it looks like you're hitting the same one

[solar bramble]

this one says 2 ruptures witin 5 seconds of each other on the same add name which seemed exxtremely odd to me unless it takes a long time to die and he went back to the boss . . . if it's 2 adds that makes much more sense

as does his tripple rupture

but ya, can they be gripped to the boss or are they immune?

[cobalt pelican]

they stay where they spawn

[solar bramble]

k

[lost horizon]

You can't kill them next to boss or he'll gain Giga energy

[solar bramble]

so you'd need a lot of luck to get them within tripple garrote range

[cobalt pelican]

as alliance yes as horde no

[lost horizon]

Luck or you garrote->shadowstep->sprint

[simple meteor]

yeap gotta go fast

[lost horizon]

Can make pretty far ones if you pop it all

[solar bramble]

you have 4 seconds to land 3 empowere garrotes. if you cast one, step 2, the 3rd would need to be really quick and close

[lost horizon]

The adds spawn close to each other

In random spots

[simple meteor]

yeap

[lost horizon]

The 2 are always next to each other, so getting from add 1->2 is easy

[solar bramble]

if that's the case. you could dbm the timer, or just sprint as they spawn . . . vanish garrote + mouseover + shadowstep + garrote > run > garote

would take practice

[lost horizon]

It's not hard, just wait for when they spawn

Boss turns to face where they'll land

Just sucks cause as alliance sometimes they spawn hella far away

[solar bramble]

but a mouseover shadowstep would probably make it much quicker than trying to tab target garrote step garotte. . . .or a mouseover garrote and just target the one your porting to. garrote > step > garrote garrote

[simple meteor]

mouse over garrote aswell

[solar bramble]

ya

the mouseover garrote would almsot be requried for that pacing

unless your hands move extremely fast

[lost horizon]

Just target them there's literally 3 dudes

[solar bramble]

mouseover garrote feels like it'd be much faster and more reliable than tab targetting or click targetting

[lost horizon]

You're on boss, first tab gets you to the closest add

[cobalt pelican]

getting the garrotes out isn't hard, closing the distance is what requires a bit of planning

and that's.. fairly easy

[lost horizon]

You dont have to be bigbrain at all

[simple meteor]

[lost horizon]

If you have mouse over macros already and are comfortable using them

Go for it

[solar bramble]

i don't tab and hit my shift + 1 fastt enough. mouseover garrote or shadowstep is far quicker for me

[lost horizon]

But don't make them thinking you need to use it to optimize this fight

Seems like you've just got garrote on an inneficient keybind tbh

[solar bramble]

more like my shadowstep on an inneficient key

[lost horizon]

That's actually worse imo

[simple meteor]

how broken is that major power blood of the enemy hope they not gonna nerf it to the ground

[lost horizon]

Since shadowstep should be really reactionary

[lone junco]

my Step is E.

big brain therre

[lost horizon]

I'd generally recommend having it on a very convenient key

[solar bramble]

i react to it very quickly in a defensive manner with where it's at. and by all my other defensives which is quickly responded to. but using it + my garrote and tab all back to back in a second or so is just slightly faster with mouseovers

to remove the tab aspect

[lone junco]

gotta be able to step/sap a mob with stealth sight.

[solar bramble]

got that on a macro

[lone junco]

so that your M+ mate bumps into it and fucks it all up anyway/

[cobalt pelican]

only heathens don't use qwe to move

[solar bramble]

right lol

[lone junco]

heathen I am then.

[solar bramble]

but ya my more specific usages are macro'd. like step + sap

step + kick

[lone junco]

we have a guy that plays with numpad

best reactionary player ive ever played with.

[lost horizon]

Honestly the garrote window for subterfuge is longer than you think

[cobalt pelican]

it's very close to 4 globals

you have plenty of room

[lost horizon]

You really don't need to gigabrain it

[lone junco]

yeah. I sprint out. vanish g. tab grong step gg. and all is well.

[solar bramble]

4 globals i could fit it in without issue. 3 globals i consider it to be would be a little tight if i used tab targetting

[lost horizon]

🤷 it's not like tab's on gcd

Imo set something up for yourself that'll work

[solar bramble]

it's not. but the way i respond with tab targeting isn't very effecient

[lost horizon]

But if you need to go out of your way to sort out something to work for grong

You may wanna reconsider your current set up

[solar bramble]

i wouldn't just be using it for that though. many usages of garrote x2 on distanced targets

x3*

multiple silences and such. i already use 2x garrote out of stealth to silence casters in m+ all the time

[lone junco]

I manually click targets

tab is for mongo ruptures tbh.

[lost horizon]

3x garrote almost every time in M+

[lone junco]

ye

[lost horizon]

Should be used to it by now

[cobalt pelican]

the only thing that super puts me off nameplate clicking is my moues in wow is like 700x as fast as anywhere else when turning my character

so when i stop turning my character my mouse suddenly feels lkie molasses

shits weird

[lone junco]

my tab target bind is also space bar.

[lost horizon]

Even if teo target, still 3 garrotes

[solar bramble]

i 3x garrote . . but if 2 casters are distanced apart like the 2 shield guys in tol dagor. i prioritize silencing them

[lone junco]

cause lol tab. what a dumb bind.

[solar bramble]

i hit all 3

the 2 and the guy in the middle

but make sure i hit the silences

[lost horizon]

Yeah even better

Hitting specific targets in large packs

Takes more brainpower than grong

[solar bramble]

mayhaps i'm overestimating the distances in mythic grong

[lone junco]

https://tenor.com/view/billy-madison-adam-sandler-smartest-man-alive-gif-4492349

[lost horizon]

If you're alliance then distance can be far enough that you'll only get 2

Without lock gate

But at that point you're just shit outta luck

[solar bramble]

right lol

[astral tangle]

Are people playing mut or outlaw for this new raid? First boss seems like a good outlaw boss

[jolly fable]

sin or outlaw for crucible?

[mortal gyro]

raidbots sim told me to break up my azerite traits so i don't run 3x stacked nothing personal, despite bloodmallet saying its the best trait. who do i trust?

[wide bolt]

The sim

[distant lava]

Sim

[wide bolt]

Bloodmallet/HD are just generic recommendations on a profile the sim is actually for your character and gear

[mortal gyro]

okidoki. thanks boys

[lone junco]

lol

yeah. use the sim. 6 dps Trait combos + ilvl + talents + trinkets are too complex for a single This or That chart.

and check out herodamage over bloodmallet. it at least has talent combinations.

https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/1t-t23-assassination

[mortal gyro]

will do

[distant lava]

bloodmallet has some too, but yeah herodmg is better

[lone junco]

that being said, we see SS with DS, does that mean the profile caps E at some point and DS > vig? nevar.

[wispy iron]

what is the better opener for MA talented the one on ravenhold, as I seen the another nice one in top logs -Mutilate,Rupture,Mutilate,Vendetta,Garrote,Toxic Blade,Vanish,Envenom ....

[rigid mango]

The one in ravenholdt

Do you think it's there to dissuade every rogue to a worse opener?

[vestal wren]

wowhead has the most in detail guide

also varying cooldowns in opener doesn't rly impact output iirc

[heavy skiff]

I find g mut rup vend tb vanish mut env mut to be the best option

But it.doesnt rly matter as fuu said as long as u dont do some stupid things xD

[rigid mango]

Yah it's down to whether you use tb before or after vanish

After is more consistant, before has higher highs

[heavy skiff]

And if u want to go full rng do vend tb mut vanish env mut env

But if ur mut does not crit then u fuckd up

Never gonna forget my 70k crit env then 4cp crit mut with 40k dd crit and then a 60k crit env

[red zealot]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nDzf9x28paTvxM9kpZtMod

T_T

Would think SS would sim higher than Tradewinds >.<

My otl set and my sin set

[wispy iron]

well I am running tradewinds instead of SS so I can avoid subtefuge talent

[red zealot]

only 10 dps apart T_T

Wish I could break 25k

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rFnAPvxaVFHJXe3AAanhMX

RIP

[wispy iron]

garrote + sub is -400 dps according the sim ... https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2Rv2VsSEL5YnWxrv25p8Ee

[red zealot]

dafuq

Sucks I feel if I run outlaw I can do shit with dps VERY often have to do all mechanics in raid but then running as sin I feel like I am behind

I like both specs for different reasons but damn lol

[real bay]

ass loses much less dps running around

[red zealot]

yeah i get that guess was meaning to say the dps is basically the same regardless of what I play

[near pilot]

ugh so close to that 27k club!

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gBKUrwv76jtvRddgr4YCU6

[strange python]

wa

!WA

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

with MA

if I TB after vanish

I better get a crit on that envenom

or else big yikes

[harsh sphinx]

getting no crits on your MA opener when you vanish after TB for big env

[lone junco]

bigger brain. Play 1ss subterfuge and never be dissapointed.

[wary ice]

Why would u Mut Env Mut for your MA window?

Fuck thats old 😠

tb->env -> mut is just better

[civic palm]

MUT MUT MUT MUT MUT MUT MUT MUT MUT

[wary ice]

Ahh; a man of culture

[civic palm]

DD too strong fuck enders

MUT MUT MUT

[wary ice]

u get more DD with ENV first though

[civic palm]

ENV VANISH MUT MUT MUT

:3

[wary ice]

:^)

[civic palm]

ENV TB VANISH MUT MUT MUT

:333

[wary ice]

post that in #tc-updates we've done it boys

[civic palm]

Not this time.

[thick narwhal]

So blizz just gave me a Haste/Mastery Dagger as an upgrade, obviously they don't want me to be sub....

so...how to sin?

I usually only play it for pvp

[rigid mango]

sub

Sin's good, for anything pve

not sure about pvp since I don't play it

[thick narwhal]

I've been a diehard Sub, even got Rezan's dagger, but this is a 10 ilvl upgrade dagger...

[rigid mango]

I mostly see peekaboo playing sub 🤷 so idk, how bad's the dagger anyways?

[arctic socket]

Sub is incredible for pvp with the amount of Cc it offers.

[cobalt pelican]

april fools

[neon ice]

hi, i'm testing play like rogue. i lvl as assassination. have not tested the others. will it be difficult for me to get into myth + lvl120

I read all the time that it is not a good class to play like.

[distant lava]

it's the best

just objectively the best

sin is pretty close to outlaw already for m+

it's a bit more gear dependant but you'll be doing fine on sin ^^

[neon ice]

ok