im seeing some ass doing great work on m+
#assassination
unborn gate
An Assa with right traits and build is better 😉
tiny finch
outlaw is basically fury but 30% harder
grand fossil
I only really run 10-12 for weekly, but maybe it would be fun to run a SS EB comp
tiny finch
oh and the sounds and animations
so good
on ass they are meeeh...
looks like you are poking the target
ahahhahahaha
unborn gate
You mostly just spin and throw daggers as assass
tiny finch
Rupture is nice
unborn gate
Using the occasional CT and rupture
tiny finch
im completely lost on AOE, ill try to focus it on the next days
on ass
trying to get my ST to a decent point
and get used to the rotation
musc memory
and trying to really understand my buffs
hahahah
unborn gate
Fok till you crit for 5 cp, rupture, fok till you crit for 5 cp, rupture
When you have enough energy gain you can fok endlessly replace rupture with envenom
keep CT up if you have it talented
tiny finch
ill save that
unborn gate
That's pretty much it xD
unborn gate
Och and start with empowered garotte ofc
Maybe even vanish and garotte again
3x empowered garotte, build some energy, vanish 3x empowered garotte again
So you have 6x empowered garotte running
tiny finch
what traits should i get for m+
grand fossil
For short fights - like zerg champs etc, do you think 3ss would be a better idea? You could get two full empowereds out and then fight is more than halfway done.
I felt a little weak last week running DD, but probably because other guildies have filthy burst.
unborn gate
SS EB if you want the short version
unborn gate
There are alot of different builds :p
ST always prio DD Al
Unless you sim higher with SS ofc :p
tiny finch
thanks for the tips tarogg
spice surge
SS is a cleave trait, it is not very strong for ST
grand fossil
Is the only real cleave fight Jadefire then? You wouldn't call Rastakhan a cleave fight? And everyone zergs champs. So you may aswell just take DD the whole raid?
round harbor
Getting into pad semantics
Zzz
You can run 3dd and a combo of other traits in bod and be fine
grand fossil
thanks for the enlightenment
nimble tartan
mmm
tiny finch
For the 2nd vendetta should i hold it for TB or just press it?
im always trying to use Vendetta + TB on all times
but i dont know if this is the play
spice surge
The general method you use to figure out if its worth to delay cds (to pair with others or just in general) is to ask Will i lose out on a cast in this fight by delaying?
If the answer is no, then its better to delay, if its yes then dont
For example, if the fight is exactly 2:20 long, delaying vendetta for 5 seconds means you lose those 5 seconds
On the other hand if the fight is 3:40, its doesnt matter if you delayed vendetta by 5 seconds
bleak spoke
feels worst kill timer ever https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yZW7RAvKJzVbGnjg#fight=4&type=summary&source=45
woven summit
yo, anyone rolling assassination in keys? I know it's like significantly weaker than Outlaw but i guess it's viable enough.
cursive dune
running ss/ttk/eb in dungeons do we still use CT?
spice surge
It is not significantly weaker than outlaw
Its a lot harder and unintuitive to play as well as requiring a good set of azerite traits. Whereas outlaw just uses their raid set
Generally no @cursive dune if you're using ttk you're going for priority damage with tb, which means that you want to spend your combo points on envenom, not ct
spice surge
Yea
cursive dune
hidden blades doesnt seem worth while
woven summit
yeah guess you need 3x echoing blades and 3x SS to be decent in keys
you go crimson tempest or hidden blades?
cursive dune
read the comments between yours
witk ttk go pb
else ct
unless i misunderstood eleem
ember remnant
twist the knife
tiny finch
Ive seen some people saying to use envenons with 3 Combo Points in TB debuff time. Should i consider that or naah?
since ive seen on the main guide it tell us to use +4s
spice surge
Not really, it was discussed and simmed earlier today and the conclusion in general is that it doesnt matter much
tiny finch
so either 3 or 4?
spice surge
Yes
tiny finch
thanks!
sorry for the absurd amount of questions, im really trying to ask the minimum possible
woven summit
you still go with 3x echoing blades when you use cp right?
tiny finch
hahahaha
woven summit
and 3x SS
spice surge
wat
When doing m+ you can use a mix of ss, echoing and twist. Depending on what you want to do
spice surge
Well no, depending on what you want to do
woven summit
well aoe
spice surge
Well sustained aoe, burst aoe, priority damage and cleave are all different things
And assa can do all of these things well if you're using the proper traits/talents
woven summit
outlaw rogue is mainly good for cleaving right?
go on single target and benefit on everything else it hits
that's cleaving
guess pb is better for cleaving right?
and cp is pure aoe
guess pure aoe is better for keys or i'm missing something
i don't know i'm lost lol
spice surge
Well, its mostly about traits, you generally dont want to deviate from pb unless you're doing heavy aoe
Either sustained (CT) or bursty (Hidden blade, but with 2-3 echoing)
SS = Cleave (2-3 targets)
Echoing = Aoe
Twist = Priority damage
woven summit
You pointed out so many variables for assassination in keys. Wasn't aware about all this
However, I wish they would buff hidden blades a bit, it would make things so much simpler 😄
finite yarrow
crucible drop anything worth while?
civic palm
Yeah, everything.
primal gazelle
use hidden blades for maximum aoe pad damage
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
spring iron
We like nothing personal better than treacherous covenant?
hasty brook
season 2 out tomorrow?
mighty elm
hasty brook
my bad?
mighty elm
steep reef
@marble elm is dark card cost effective still
steep reef
ty
eternal cedar
on 2nd Vanish, do we:
Vendetta-Vanish-Garrote-Rupture-Garrote-TB
or
Vanish -Garrote-Rupture-Garrote-Vendetta-TB??
sharp fulcrum
civic palm
o _o
civic palm
Depends on what you have up at the time.
stone crescent
Do the nature damage ticks from NP get empowered by toxic blade? So we should always have TB at the start of the vendetta?
If we're stacking TB
I mean np
eternal cedar
Just wasnt sure if we would want the dmg increase put into shrouded/subterfuge window aswell as TB.
Vendetta lasts 20secs, TB window is 9 secs, so they both would fit in
stone crescent
Oh actually double checked NP. Didnt see that the dot is actually 20sec so you won't miss any ticks of it with tb basically
Mkay thank you
sharp fulcrum
G to know. Alright sleep well strangers I'm off to bed.
fossil slate
Sorry for what is probably a dumb question, just clarifying off the ravenholdt guide. FoK is used in aoe situations only at 4+ targets unless you need to spread poisons in which case its 3+ so once everything is poisoned in 3 mobs we just ST one and keep dots up on 3?
high siren
yes
fossil slate
Thanks 😃
vast forum
Depends on the number of dd and eb traits you have
rigid mango
If you have eb traits, you use FoK at 2 targets +, if you have DD traits you use it at 4-5+
Hence why the two don't mix well and why DD isn't prevalent in m+ @fossil slate
fossil slate
Ah fair enough that makes sense
And I take it with builds its really just a case of simming the traits and gear you've got against tb/pb and exsang/ct to see which is better for you
rigid mango
Nah, tb pb will nearly always be better
fossil slate
Oh that's fair enough. Not a fan of exsang/ct anyway haha
rigid mango
I woudln't use CT ever if you're not super comfortable, and without SS stacking +- nelf tb is normally better than exsang
arctic harness
You can use PB with exsanguinate
Advantage of Exsan is you dont have to stick to the target
And it can sim better depending on the amount of SS traits
fossil slate
Just having the joys of simming all my gear now without prem raidbots - feels bad D:
arctic harness
lone junco
Premium raidbots refunds the prorated month. So you could sub. Sim cancel.
Or don't be a bitch and just pay
fossil slate
Oh I'm gonna pay, it's just waiting for paycheck to come trhough after having been out of work for a while ^^
ornate gazelle
slim socket
Yes
stable oxide
Why do I see alot of people with MA specc on jaina?
Isn't sub alot more versatile
especially when you have one SS
rigid mango
MA is just flat damage with dd/np build
stable oxide
yeah true
sonic bridge
Still not 100%
rigid mango
Meaning if you're not unlucky as shit, MA is really good
Since it's a dps check it's just down to as much damage on jaina as possible
royal lantern
30%crit
stable oxide
dps check in the last phase I assume?
royal lantern
im at 21%without any enchant buffs/trinket buffs ._.
crystal vault
in a perfect world, which traits would you want for ST, 3xdd 2xNP 1xttk ?
royal lantern
3xdd 1xnp 1xblightborn 1xtc i gues
stable oxide
I have 3DD, 2NP, 1 SS atm with Sub instead of MA
royal lantern
but not possible, so 3xdd 1xnp 1xblightborn 1xttk is the ''best''setup for st right now that is actually avaible
rigid mango
You don't often get 3 target snapshotted garrotes
And does ttk rly outdamage 2nd np?
stable oxide
And is ss only better in that situation :P?
rigid mango
Would've though otherwise
stable oxide
I hardly doupt it
stable oxide
is SS/sub only better then MA when you can do 3 garrotes?
I think SS/sub is already ahead with only 2 garrotes
rigid mango
MA will be much higher damage
Depends on how many ss traits
You want 3 dd
You want atleast 1 np, I see most running 2
And the last spot will be for a bbi/ttk i guess
Sub/ss isn't worth it afaik
mint peak
Swapping from MA to sub is like a 0.5% DPS decrease for me with 0 SS traits. Not "much higher damage"
rigid mango
@royal lantern does ttk outdamage 2nd np for you?
rigid mango
Yah
royal lantern
and it has ttk
rigid mango
Bur not that
royal lantern
and yeha, it does for me
royal lantern
derp, i mean the chest, sorry
rigid mango
I'm running 3 dd 2 np 1 bbi
royal lantern
3xOP is also extremly high value
rigid mango
Yah
Defo
No mekka chest 
I mean if you prefer playing sub n ss do so
But in general i think ma is better
mint peak
In pure ST circumstances
sonic bridge
Yes
rigid mango
If you can run 3dd np bbi ttk or smth similar
sonic bridge
But not in general
rigid mango
It's not worth while swapping out stuff for ss
crystal vault
i know the answer will be "simm yourself" i do, but why are most god parses rogues have less mastery more crit? i am sitting at 1k mastery and its still better than crit
stable oxide
Simming is not the answer
simming is only the answer on patchwork fights
which doesn't really exist anymore
therefor looking at warcraftlogs gives you a way better representation
crystal vault
i mean blockade is like a patchwork ^^ as a melee
stable oxide
I don't know, you can multidot the adds there :P?
rigid mango
Mastery normally takes over at higher ilvls
stable oxide
I used to go 3DD- 1NP - 2TC on jaina
cause it simmed the highest
but in reality I do way more with 3DD-2NP-1SS
marble elm
No
stable oxide
some say yes, some say no
sonic bridge
Top sin uses 1 tc on Jaina
rigid mango
Seeing as how you go under 90% often?
crystal vault
rigid mango
Ah mb
mint peak
TC uptime isn't that bad on Jaina. Obviously if during p3 you're under 50% a lot its bad but that shouldn't be the case
blissful saddle
Lol I interpreted that you're always low as a personal blow
strange python
Legendary Heroe reporting in! o/
rigid mango
Legendary hero 
strange python
You forgot the E, gotta use the E 😦
rigid mango
No >:(
strange python
ok, my bad 😭
royal lantern
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9VrmbAyiL9p8dyvsgNi5Ym @rigid mango simmed again for you, the mekka chest wich would give me 2xnp still simms abit lower
rigid mango
Isn't just because u lose op?
royal lantern
is there a chest with dd np AND op?
crystal vault
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4bhoaRh3aMCeompJHgrN8A thats like 37%mastery, once i had 44% and stat weights was the same. so would you say going more crit is better? ♿
rigid mango
Just sim w top gear instead, simming stat weights can be off
crystal vault
i did, more mastery was better. just wondering why a lot dont go for mastery. like i watched flawless last clear run and he only had 27% when i was at 44% ^^
royal lantern
for m+ or raids?
crystal vault
raid
royal lantern
in raids haste simply pulls over everything else
and crit is better then mastery until you reach a pretty high crit rating with like 25%where mastery and crit slowly start too get the same value
mint peak
I think he knows Haste is still his best stat he's saying how come some people don't go for Mastery next and the answer is they just don't. It's not based on math or analysis, they just prefer having the crit because getting fewer 2CP Mutilates feels better. They're not doing some behind the scenes magic math
simple gulch
is Lustrous Golden Plumage one of the best sin trinkets?
vestal wren
its good
rigid mango
It's one of the better for both m+ and raiding
simple gulch
is engi good for rogues?
rigid mango
@vestal wren do you know how good conc trink is compared to the other dungeon trinks?
I've yet to get it so havn't been able to check it and see for myself
royal lantern
if you dont have a mythic head piece with good traits, yeha engineering is good
rigid mango
Yeah, i imagine it's good on stuff like blockade
Would love to get it/mekka trink and try them out
royal lantern
i really dont like how the mekka trinkets is building/losing stacks ALL the time
crystal vault
i got it from heroic and dont like it either
rigid mango
Idk, it seems interesting, and pretty good for m+ atleadt
royal lantern
sucks that wath feels like every 2nd pull you are at 2stacks going down, wich means you have basicly no trinket on pull after some seconds
rigid mango
For m+?
I think it's up there atleast
Not sure how it compares yet since I've yet to get it
crystal vault
for m+ mekka trinket is good. with reaping and EB it can be crazy
rigid mango
Would assume it's good with several eb's
Aye
I'm currently not running more than 1 eb though
So not sure how good it'd be
crystal vault
i saw like 300- even till 500k spikes on reaping with 3x EB and trinket
simple gulch
EB?
crystal vault
echoing
simple gulch
oh ok
crystal vault
spikes, yes.
simple gulch
i assume outlaw can do more? right?
spice surge
Not necessarily, outlaw isnt strictly better in m+ than assa
rigid mango
I've only ever seen udk's grt in that range
spice surge
Its just a lot easier to play and gear for (outlaw that is)
simple gulch
I prefer assa
crystal vault
gearing sin for m+ is hard. and even when you have 3xSS 3xEB, i dont like it for bosses though
vestal wren
i think the main attention point for outlaw is that it shines in lower keys where sin falls short
rigid mango
I don't think that build is that good
rigid mango
If you're running that build
You might aswell go outlaw
You're doing what outlaw does, but chunking your st damage like no other
Sin is wat better at going prio damage build imo, if you want to go full aoe spam like
Outlaw just presses 1 button and is still near you
Sounds good
strange python
in my opinion theres not that much of a difference between assa and outlaw
if both geared well
rigid mango
Yeah obv
strange python
assa is just much more fun to play for me
rigid mango
But imo assa is better at going a more st/cleave/prio build
And really shining at that
strange python
yeah the 3x ttk build is nice
rigid mango
Or 3 ss
strange python
y
rigid mango
Stacking ss eb means you just do such low st dmg
And it's so sad :(
Lacking haste and no st traits
strange python
the st isnt that bad with exsang its okay
arctic socket
Will someone help me learn/teach me the opener for master Assassin?
strange python
and in case u run 3xeb 3xss i guess in most team comps u have other classes for the st
arctic socket
MA openers is listed? Didn’t see it there my bad
coarse quartz
Is there a place for rogue specific tips for mythic encounters?
rigid mango
But when I bring my friend who's an outlaw I'll go assa since I'm geared for it
Aye
It's appreciated for shit like kr/tos
Best of both worlds
@coarse quartz i know flawless is writing an outlaw guide, there should be an assa guide kicking around
Probs s1 but tips are mostly the same
Should be on wowhead
strange python
watch dratnos videos
rigid mango
^
strange python
he has rogue perspectives for all 9 bosses
coarse quartz
I'm more looking for bfd mythic
strange python
dratnos
lament dove
Infexious probably has some assa guide/tip videos
arctic socket
So curious question my haste has hit 24% but I’m kinda on the lower side for crit do you guys think MA would Play better?
coarse quartz
Ravenholdt one is like for heroic and outdated though
arctic socket
3 Dd 1tc 1np 2 op
arctic socket
Sim says it would do more damage but I was worried about if it’s a better play style
rigid mango
Well then you're at personal pref
lament dove
many of us don't like MA
stable oxide
But for example
MA will always sim better
but there are so many fights where you can use SS/subt beneficial
royal lantern
eh, think different
arctic socket
Hmm alright.. newer to rogue so trying to ask around
royal lantern
in how many of those fights would you need too actually hold vanish for a longer time too get value out of ss/subt
rigid mango
Yeah but then you're simming patchwerk to see stuff that's not patchwerk no?
stable oxide
I think only mekkatorque is the pure singletarget fight
verbal cedar
Does the Azerite Trait Resounding Protection stack?
stable oxide
Blockade you have adds right?
royal lantern
you are hitting adds as melee on blockade?
rigid mango
Yeah but melee shouldn't hit
coarse quartz
On mythic melee tunnel boss pretty much
Maybe help out here and there on sirens if needed
stable oxide
well, you can vanish, and spread your garrotes
stable oxide
why not?
royal lantern
MA gives you better burst btw
stable oxide
not 100% of the time
royal lantern
wich is better for some fights
stable oxide
you can stack during seaswell
rigid mango
To have less of a mess, you should
stable oxide
then you shadowstep
coarse quartz
I mean I can see it being beneficial to garrote with ss on adds but like
You risk a lot to mess up the mechanics
rigid mango
Yeah
stable oxide
you know exactly when shit is coming :p
stable oxide
with a shadowstep and sprint
royal lantern
bruh, the 100% argument for MA is weird cus thats like saying poisonbomb is bad because it cant proc for a long time, hidden blades gives you more dmg cus its guranteed
rigid mango
Still losing dps
stable oxide
you gain energy regen
stable oxide
and when an add dies when rupture is still up
rigid mango
On mythic atleast
stable oxide
it is almost the same as pooling energy
stable oxide
which is very benefitial for envenoms during toxicblade and stuff
royal lantern
wich i doubt it does, everyone and their mom plays a druid and afflock is fotm in raids for ages now
coarse quartz
If you get a 2 spawn and vanish step 3x garrote then spring back into melee that'll be huge
On mythic
But I mean
Overall MA does so good with so little effort on mythic blockade lol
royal lantern
not like subterfuge is much effort
stable oxide
On jaina I shadowstep the frozen balista's and garrote/rupture them :P
royal lantern
its stronger dot vs stronger burst
coarse quartz
Yeah if you can pull it off can be huge
stable oxide
I'm doing more jaina damage then the MA rogue
royal lantern
i can gurantee thats not because he plays MA pal
coarse quartz
Can be a lot of things unless we see logs
royal lantern
low crits while vendetta/tb is up, getting hit by many mechanics, gear not that good, not playing perfect/sometimes doing mistakes....
coarse quartz
Some pulls I get godly rng and burst to 70k fpd and some pulls I only burst to 35k
stable oxide
So the thing is, when I garrote and rupture the balista's I already have more energy regen for at least 12 seconds. when the balista dies I get energy back, at that point im in a luxury position with energy. wich is extreemly benefitial for my Elaborate plannign
royal lantern
the difference bettwen MA and subterfuge is so small, its not wath makes his dps lower then yours except MAYBE on some pulls cus he is REALLY frking unlucky
stable oxide
Most of the time when the balista is dying my toxic blade gets off cooldown aswell, so then I get into toxic blade with alot of energy
coarse quartz
Just hit the boss until it's dead DUH NERDS
wary ice
its also better 🤷
stable oxide
dont know man
wary ice
Spreading bleeds is for extra energy regen is not worth the energy spent / boss downtime
with the intention of increasing your single target*
marble hemlock
multidotting ballista prior to TB coming up is worth on jaina
since you can generally line it up with having to run away from ring of frost
and dot them while youre standing in shit
coarse quartz
If you CNA pull it off and it leads to higher damage done I don't see why not
marble hemlock
like
i hold vanish for 2nd ballista, run to ballista, full cp rupture, vanish garrote ballista, step jaina 2xgarrote jaina, pop TB and blast
stable oxide
ugh brb work is calling! lets put this discussion on hold guys! xD
Yeah thats what I do aswell
marble hemlock
problem on jaina is
you cant really parse well on a proper rekill
cause you need to hold dps in p2 😦
at least we need to
stable oxide
Depends on how good your dps is :P
marble hemlock
ye we need to hold or we'd phase right as gathering storm drops
royal lantern
we still get a 3 ring on the boat :c
marble hemlock
dont even get 2nd vendetta off anymore in p1
marble hemlock
so im sitting on vendetta for like a minute and a half
stable oxide
anyways brb!
rigid mango
Do you keep on dots up on the elly in p3m
marble hemlock
nah
rigid mango
?*
marble hemlock
not worth
rupture definitely isnt worth
you could garrote, but then y ou still gotta keep up poison on the ele
rigid mango
Yeah fair enough
marble hemlock
😄
marble hemlock
i also used to get 2 vanishes on jaina basically
one perfore wall, where i just vanish doublegarrote on jaina/wall
and then vanish gets ready again at 8%
now she dies too quickly 😦
rigid mango
Make a guide :(
marble hemlock
so no subterfuge value anymore
royal lantern
well, we are still progressing and cant reach p2 without deaths
sooo....i just used cd's when avaible
we survived the intermission 2x with 6 people alive!
marble hemlock
😄
royal lantern
eh, like 80pulls or something, i dont expect more
royal lantern
the fight or getting into p2 without problems :?
marble hemlock
the kill
reef hornet
It's Tuesday!
fickle viper
When you did the vanish as she transitions into wall phase, do you vendetta wall as well or hold for start p3
marble hemlock
we had 150k hp wipe on pull 260 or smth, then we needed another 3 raids to finally kill her
royal lantern
i allready accepted it that we will need like 400 too 600 max
marble hemlock
only vanish/galecallers/tb
fickle viper
I mean back prenerf or w/e cause now its RIP to vendetta wall then jaina at like 6-7% im assuming
yeah kk
marble hemlock
then do nathanos/ele, get back to her, do one regular TB, 2nd TB in P3 with all CDs
basically gets more damage on jaina in p2 still
and you still get another vanish on jaina anyway
fickle viper
do you have vanish for that 2nd TB arleady
fickle viper
id imagine its only up later
marble hemlock
could theoretically delay vendetta even more
but then it comes up during beam and uptime during that stage is incredibly questionable
fickle viper
rather, why not vendetta the first TB when u get back to her with pot
royal lantern
just never use vendetta at this point lul
marble hemlock
no galecallers ready
marble hemlock
nah
well, kinda
buzt you still get full uptime during it
its only once the image beam is finishing where she sometimes decides to afk in the icepatch for like 20seconds
but TB is done by then
fickle viper
but vendetta might not be if ur using it with that TB? just wonderin
meager basalt
will my main get a daggy above 405 ilvl this week... while my alts have 410 socketed weps
marble hemlock
lemme crop that better
meager basalt
nothin personal?
marble hemlock
so if she idles in shit
i lose like
3sec of autoattacks on her at the end
while vendetta is up
but i get full GC uptime during TB
so thats worth
stable oxide
@marble hemlock You use GCB :O?
Isn't that annoying?
like, can you use it everytime it gets of cooldown without moving?
royal lantern
just dont move and let healers heal more
stable oxide
xD
wanton swan
It probably depends on the ilvl of your GCB vs plumage. I have a 415 socketed GCB and it is still better than the 400 plumage if I only stand in the buff 50% of the time.
marble hemlock
movement on jaina is very predictable
stable oxide
but this is one of the tries, and this is my damage on jaina while im also dotting the balista's and stuff
meager basalt
@wanton swan so would a 405 dice with a socket be bttr than a 415 dice
stable oxide
no
Dice effect is very strong
I simmed, and a 400 dice with a socket sims worse than a 405 without a socket
but thats for me, if you really want to know, you should sim it with your own character
meager basalt
damn my 405 socket sims higher
stable oxide
really 0.o
stable oxide
hmmm
latent gazelle
Probably depends on your ilvl and stat values.
royal lantern
well, socket on dice is...complicated i gues
wanton swan
My warlock has a 400 balefire branch with a socket and it is better than the 410 balefire branch I also have.
latent gazelle
Specially if they are scewed more toward one stat
royal lantern
sockets are op cus secondarys are so good, but dice allready gives a good bunch of ALL secondarys....
stable oxide
for me the 400 socketed was slightly worse than a 405
wanton swan
So it's not unusual.
meager basalt
ill sim again and send it in
stable oxide
perhaps it depends indeed on your statweight, traits and specc
latent gazelle
^^
stable oxide
im spamming freehold like crazy for a titanforge dice
latent gazelle
Me too lol. And the word..
meager basalt
sameeee
latent gazelle
I’ve gotten 4 400 ilvl dice. The one time I miss the run with my group a 415 drops
latent gazelle
I cried inside
I figure I’ll get a dice above 400 ilvl when 8.2 drops and the baseline M+ ilvl goes up
stable oxide
xD
Yeah most likely
Its shitty though
I try to do 2 to 4 freeholds a day, and then I see random guys getting a 425 with socket in the first try xD
primal gazelle
did a charity 14 siege last night with like a 400 ilvl rogue
415 socket spyglass drops for him
😦
latent gazelle
Yeah I’ve always had shitty luck with loot. Can’t get a a dagger above 405 ilvl so I switched to outlaw because both DH and the monk I run with all have 410 or higher wraps so they can trade me stuff 😁
primal gazelle
fair game btw
meager basalt
xD
rigid mango
I can't get any of the dungeon trinks to forge for the life of me
meager basalt
prot war monkas
primal gazelle
my max is 405 dice/spyglass 😦
night vale
My friend got a 425 socketed conch last night from shrine 😮
primal gazelle
i have a 420 of that
meager basalt
lmfao meme
night vale
Feels bad!
primal gazelle
and a 425 cannon
rigid mango
tbf did get 425 socketed WM ring
primal gazelle
fucking epic
meager basalt
epic mate
latent gazelle
I’ve gotten 425 bracers *3 times.
meager basalt
dont let ur memes be dreams
primal gazelle
im getting less rng loot than i did in s1 😦 around 2 months into last tier i had like 4 425s thats equippable
right now im at 1 425, but its not usable
rigid mango
425 in s1? 
latent gazelle
One of our DH is playing his rogue a bit. Done a few TDs. I told him to unlock gates and get buffs.
primal gazelle
well i have a 425 socketed belt, which i bought from the AH so i dont count that
primal gazelle
it was like 800 or 900k idr
rigid mango
I'm eu so no 😠
meager basalt
NY
primal gazelle
rolling for the helm today for the 6th time
latent gazelle
I need to find someone to blow on my dice for better rng on loot rolls
rigid mango
Also, every week is a fuckign disapointment
primal gazelle
WILL I GET IT? STAY TUNE
meager basalt
what helm
primal gazelle
eb/ss helm
meager basalt
who drops tht
rigid mango
Fluid mach 
primal gazelle
shrine
rigid mango
It's SoTS helm
meager basalt
oooooooo
latent gazelle
That’s the one with overwhelming power?
primal gazelle
i wouldnt know, i cant get it 😦
rigid mango
Nah
latent gazelle
Lol
rigid mango
it's got Heed
stable oxide
Just imagine getting a titanforge 425 golden hands with socket :P
not that
I'll throw my pc out of the window
latent gazelle
Ah. Thought the helm with OP was bis
rigid mango
The ML?
stable oxide
yeah
latent gazelle
Azerokks?
rigid mango
And ariannos, it's for m+
stable oxide
yeah that one
latent gazelle
Ah gotcha
latent gazelle
Azerokks would prolly be decent with a MA build with TtK traits
latent gazelle
Sims higher then the other pieces I have
latent gazelle
Yeah
latent gazelle
Yeah that’s pretty much what I use. My chest has DD/TtK. Shoulders DD/BbI. Helm DD/NP
latent gazelle
Ah yeah
hollow stone
Thats bis
primal gazelle
Looking at wcl top100 dmg runs of each dungeon, there are more people running HB than there is ppl using 2 or more traits of TTK. My disease is spreading 
rigid mango
What is apple?
hollow stone
Ariannos' st set up
latent gazelle
Yeah all 3 with OP
latent gazelle
Not a fan of MA tho
rigid mango
I prefer it now tbh, loved sub+ss before
rigid mango
yah, ttk + op is better than 2nd np + elemental whirl
hollow stone
Yup
rigid mango
But not by far, so I'm not too fussed
hollow stone
No. Tiny bit
latent gazelle
Usually our balance Druid and me fighting for top spot in dps. He usually edges me out because he can multi dot n stuff
Cheater
rigid mango
I get shafted by our elly shamans
hollow stone
Balance also sims higher than sin last i checked (in full bis for both specs)
So its just better
rigid mango
Yah for raiding
latent gazelle
Yeah it’s in a good spot for raiding
rigid mango
They're up there atleast
I think shadow is still the top afaik
I still want new trinks
I've tried and tried and tried to get a single trink forge
latent gazelle
We have a spriest but he tends to focus on his alts and tbh just doesn’t play it enough to do good
rigid mango
but I just never get a single one, but random shit from AD/ML for sure
We have two spriest, one is horrendous since it's his alt and he's only playing it because jaina
latent gazelle
I’ve got a 410 plumage and 410 Mekka trinket. Everything else is 400
rigid mango
and 2nd one swaps between heal n dps so
latent gazelle
Yeap. Same with ours
He’s also into his own theory crafting. Thinks bear druids are the best M+ tanks
latent gazelle
His reasoning is their utility is good
mint peak
Tell him to play a bear druid for 5 mins and he'll see why they're not popular in M+
rigid mango
I mean
they have no passive slow afaik
They only have typhoon
no aoe stun
less dmg
latent gazelle
He does lol. He lvld one for ztroll. Plays it a lot
rigid mango
than a warr
primal gazelle
do they still have like a 20 yd aoe swipe
latent gazelle
Nope
primal gazelle
oh rip
latent gazelle
That was a leggo equip
rigid mango
dunno, I just know my old RL who mained bear since tbc
stopped playing it now
so it must be horrendous
hollow stone
Bear for utility 🤔
rigid mango
^
primal gazelle
ya i just remember my bear tank in legion had a huge swipe radius and just aggro everything as he runs by
hollow stone
Roar is really good for getting your group to that next pull
latent gazelle
Our guilds MT is bear. And we have another that tanks 10-15s. Not horribly but our MW is insanely good
hollow stone
I get it now
rigid mango
monks have a better typhoon (imo) and an aoe stun
hollow stone
Yup
hollow stone
Dks have more utility. Grip mass grip. Better cds. Also has brez
latent gazelle
Well if they use wearbear skin that automatically makes them big dick
Yeah and war has loads of CDs and massive dmg
hollow stone
Bear is fine. But yikes if the reasoning is for utility
latent gazelle
It’s okay if you not pushing 20s or so (which we aren’t)
rigid mango
well there you go
latent gazelle
Lol
rigid mango
nothing matters with classes
Until you get to like
17+ maybe?
idk
I just love people in like +11's not accepting anything but MDI meta
empty badge
Lmao that happens a lot in higher keys too
latent gazelle
If we could get a set group we could push higher then 15s. But we all like to play slots n stuff
rigid mango
I mean I wouldn't be surprised if that happened
latent gazelle
Lol I did a +14 TD. Zoned in and they said wtf why are you sin? Can you go OL?
rigid mango
hence playing outlaw whilst pugging, and assa whenever I have a prem outlaw
and the comp/dungeon calls for it
latent gazelle
Yeap
Sin still pumps just as good as outlaw for the most part. As I told them. And proceeded to put overall dmg them by a fairly wide margin
rigid mango
idk outlaw is so eas
latent gazelle
Lol troll the hell out of them
bleak spoke
Imagine kicking a sin rogue in a high key wtf
latent gazelle
If only sub was still the mid legion sub. DfA was so good
bleak spoke
Eh I like outlaw on sand queen cuz more control over bursting the critters
heavy skiff
They said can u swich to ol?
latent gazelle
Yeah lol
latent gazelle
FoK with EB in sandqueen is sick..
latent gazelle
Lol
rigid mango
Outlaw is comfortable mind numbing to play
latent gazelle
Until you only get SS and Regen rolls on boss fights
heavy skiff
Sub with scombo ond sandqueen was sick
latent gazelle
I just like having to keep track of stuff as sin. Makes me miss my feral
bleak spoke
I miss sub in Tol
primal gazelle
or play sub on 1st boss, zone out after
latent gazelle
^^
bleak spoke
It’s still decent tbh probably
Just I don’t have azerite that’s not depleted laying around
heavy skiff
Basicly 25% less dps to boss
bleak spoke
You can aggro the watery domes
With tricks
When tank is on doorway
They go through boss then pull him
stuck knoll
You can pull the boss with a frost mage too
primal gazelle
is that reliable? like does it sometimes pull the whole room
cos i saw method na wipe doing it on the mdi stream
cos they pulled too much or w/e
boss sat on sanguine and it was rip
bleak spoke
Block warden can go wrong way and pull everything
harsh goblet
whats the rules for exang outside of opener/cds
All I see in the pins is info on using it in tandem wit galecallers
and the sin page doesn't mention it outside of opener and usefulness with garrote traits
heavy skiff
Just use it on cd outside of opener
If u are nelf the use sm before ur second exang i guess
And remember refreshing dots before using exang every time
Try to make that line up as good as possible
harsh goblet
ok
heavy skiff
Like u dont want to refresh a 15 sec rup to exang but u have to
Try to get tobthe spot that when u get to exang ur rup is just refreshed or at pandemic
Easy to say i know but its what u have to fo
@near pilot thats not bad at all
Its the perfect pad build too
Cheese logs 4 the win
short wasp
Need some input for M+. Which out of the 3 trinks should I be using? Im sure one would be GCB.
near pilot
haha im so used to the MA opener now though
near pilot
ouch 415 GCB, tough to say no
latent gazelle
shy dust
heavy skiff
Whats ur azerite traits?
idle vigil
Hey does anyone have any tips
On dodging the living current
Before 1st boss of sots
short wasp
3x SS, x2 EB, x1 NP
idle vigil
I can never seem to not pull it without shroud
latent gazelle
I’d say dice and spyglass
heavy skiff
U can go gb with exang and it would be rly strong tbh
latent gazelle
GCB can be a major pain to use properly
heavy skiff
But idk. If u dont like exang then dice and spyglass would be best
short wasp
But i do love GCB
near pilot
exg takes a snapshot of your haste right?
near pilot
i hate GCB with a passion lol but yeah exang with it would be nuts
latent gazelle
If your not able to get atleast 70 to 80% uptime in GCB ( math is off the top of my head and could be 100% wrong) then it’s a waste
rose perch
it is for most things
near pilot
m+ is more friendlt to a ward than raiding is you can stay in the circle
rose perch
exsanguinate is an exception
latent gazelle
For some things
spice surge
It only snapshots the haste value
idle vigil
Oh perfect @rose perch I’m having a hard time doing the skip on the living current before 1st boss of sots
spice surge
Not anything else
idle vigil
Your route just says hug south but every time I do it we pull
I’ve just had to use a shroud or invis pot on it
heavy skiff
Hey dratnos when are u doing more high lvl m+ videos?
short wasp
Thx guys, I'll try dice and glass. just got glass in my weekly chest
rose perch
@idle vigil there's a little brazier/cup thing that you want to jump over, at the top of the stairs
@heavy skiff very soon but not as sin 😄
latent gazelle
Outlaw is too good for the reaping padfest. It’s easier to bring classes with good single target/some cleave for bosses and let outlaw pad
Sin with 3EB and HB would be good to tho
bleak spoke
Sin fills almost any role you want it to if you have the azerite though
stuck knoll
And pretending sin isn't viable is dumb
Especially here whatever the current perception is
haughty lily
2eb, 2ttk, and 2ss is still standard for m+ right
bleak spoke
It’s only weakness is that if you want to index heavily into one role you sacrifice a bit of other stuff
Yeh 222 builds are excellent at everything I’d say
Not stellar at anything other than maybe controlling and bursting packs with more than 1 prio target though
Your ST will be competitive with basically every class, you’ll outhit most classes on big packs and reaps and your prio damage while not being insane every single Tb window is super good with vendetta
dapper dock
Is double dose and nothing personal on same circle. Choose double dose? Making sure cuz nothing personal trait has higher sims
If***
bleak spoke
Sim yourself
sturdy python
Would need to sim to be sure, most likely NP if you can’t get it on any other piece.
bleak spoke
Idk dd still sims higher without any np for me
haughty lily
what do you guys think for a standard raid set? i feel like i should be running at least 1ss and subturfuge for earlier mythic fights but then halfway thru the raid i feel guilty for not having 3dd and 3 np and running MA
bleak spoke
SS is good on first three
dapper dock
I am going off bloodmallet sims. Shows there nothing personal sims highest
haughty lily
so am i just supposed to be like BRB gotta reforge all my azerite after 3 fights? haha
bleak spoke
@dapper dock not as accurate as simming yourself cuz those sims are done with standardized gear
@haughty lily eh I have different pieces but if you don’t you should go with what you’re more comfortable with
haughty lily
really i have 2 sets, one for raid and one for sin m+
so im starting my third azerite set for outlaw
dapper dock
You could just re roll to poor man's rogue and play havoc
bleak spoke
Dh zzzzz
dapper dock
Lol
haughty lily
so like would i reroll 2dd, 1 ss, 3np for multi target?
bleak spoke
No anything with DD and NP is an st build
latent gazelle
3 NP seems a bit much
bleak spoke
What does that even mean
latent gazelle
If anything I’d go 3DD 2 NP 1 SS
bleak spoke
Just sim it
haughty lily
i have simmed it
bleak spoke
But yeah if I had the choice and wanted to play ss build in st I’d play 3DD 1NP 1SS and 1ttk probs
Something like champs helm fh shoulders and ceph jacket
But that would require not getting shoulder dupes every week zzzz
haughty lily
ive gotten every piece of azerite ive ever wanted from this game
no dupes any week hah
bleak spoke
You should want more if it’s working :^)
haughty lily
yeah thats why im optimizing for outlaw now 😃
dapper dock
In 8.2 we won't have to worry about switching traits right?
bleak spoke
My wishlist has SS EB helm and conclave chest for m+ pad builds, kr chest and ace DS helm for outlaw and blightborne shoulders
Not asking too much I know :^)
Yeh I’m 8.2 we’ll just pick our traits, bless up
I’m excited to play some janky ass builds in mid range keys
haughty lily
you can do that now!
dapper dock
Go 3 EB and only cast fan of knives and see ur dps. That's plenty janky
haughty lily
hahah i was so excited to do that when i had 3 eb traits i made an outlaw rogue run with me so i can see the difference in dps
sin starts stronger
bleak spoke
Idk my azerite’s pretty lucky tbh. 3DD NP Trech TTK for raid with choice of SS, 3TTK 2EB 1SS for m+ with the choice of playing 222 via reforging etc
Also good outlaw stuff
haughty lily
i hate reforging, i do everything i can to avoid it
i mean they could of at least made azerite easier to get if they wanted us to have multiple sets
bleak spoke
I hate playing content with stuff that’s suboptimal when it’s right there in my bags
haughty lily
like every 2 weeks it takes me or reclearing mythic to get a new piece
bleak spoke
I get like 2 every 3 weeks or so