assassination

[fallen bay]

i mean from DPS perspective

[stuck knoll]

Well does spending 20 quid on around +/- 50 dps sound worth

You can check the actual race differences on herodamage

But tbh just change if you think the utility sounds worth

And you like how they look

[fallen bay]

i know sims says something else, but real experience i ment like if that 4% crit procs do better or bleeds than 1 % perma crit

[stuck knoll]

It's completely unnoticeable

You're not gonna see the difference outside of sims

[fallen bay]

so let's say in dungeon in Overall dmg i wont see big diff i see

[stuck knoll]

Not at all

Utility > looks > dps is how to look at is a race worth

[vestal wren]

i think the majority decides on looks > rest

[stuck knoll]

I agree but I know a couple like Utility a lot as well

I play my race based on looks 🤷

[strange python]

Utility > all

[visual quartz]

Troll zerking, when I turn ally in Bod my 20sec open order is messed up when I lose it

[strange python]

the sweet rocketjump ❤

[agile oar]

hey guys

i need help on what i should be doin

[strange python]

go to bed

[agile oar]

but its morning

well my main question is

what is overall better 3 SS or DD

I only have one set gear and resetting traits is getting expensive

doing mythic prog and i want to know what is best in all situations

[warm parcel]

Well in the raid your job is boss dps

So DD is far superior

[agile oar]

ok can you also look at my mythic logs and see what i can improve on?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nNKRFxmZhdHc1LWa/#fight=1

[spice surge]

My'das talisman is atrociously bad

Do a wq and get a better trinket

[warm parcel]

You pressed tb at 15 s

And the next time at 144s

It has a 25s cd

You also randomly forgot vendetta

You cast tb just before a mechanic caused you to be off target

You fok on 2 targets

[spice surge]

Fok is at 5 targets with 3 dd

Not 2

[warm parcel]

Your dot uptimes are really low

[spice surge]

Its 3 without any traits and 2 with echoing blade traits

[agile oar]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/23638215 this is my new gear since that last raid

i'm plannin on changing ss to dd

[warm parcel]

Thats not your issue

You should go to a dummy and just practice getting used to assa for an hour or two

[spice surge]

^ Dot uptimes should be 98%+, preferably 99%+. Only having 85-90% means you lose out on A LOT of energy and damage

And on most fights you are missing anywhere between 25-40% of the tb casts available because you delay it so much

[warm parcel]

On jadefire I used as the example log 99% isnt really achievable. But Yours were 68% and 35% something

Those are just not acceptable

[agile oar]

so vandetta and tb on cool down even if its rotation from boss?

[spice surge]

What do you mean? You dont pop vendetta on a target you're not about to hit

Neither tb, that is one of the things you've been doing that is really bad

[warm parcel]

Yeah, there is no reason to delay unless a mechanic comes up

Which does happen a lot on jadefire

So getting used to the boss itself helps

[agile oar]

ok i see what you are sayin

this might sound dumb but i know you just said to not hold the abilities what if the raid lead says we are poppin hero in like 1 min

but vandetta is up

i know tb will be back up

[warm parcel]

Does the boss die before you can use it again?

[agile oar]

no

[warm parcel]

Cause 2 vendettas > One good vendetta

Then you hold

[spice surge]

Also, you're supposed to know beforehand when you're gonna pop BL

And plan ahead before the fight even starts. If the fight is 6 mins you're only gonna get 3 vendettas of regardless

So saving it so it lines up with hero at 3 min is good in that case

The key being planning ahead

[agile oar]

ok i see

thanks for the help guys

[wooden fog]

Is 1-2 SS good on mythic stormwall for the extra adds on p2 or just run MA for boss dmg? Any recommendations?

[royal lantern]

idk your team comp, but i gues you dont really need too hit the adds as melee and can just go full st boss dmg

[peak quarry]

Soo, I assume one shouldn't spam envenom as soon as they get the combo points for it right?

[royal lantern]

deepens on your energy

you should use envenom when all bleeds are up and not close too the pandemic timers, and then another envenom too hold the envenom buff up

[peak quarry]

hmm sounds good

[zinc willow]

Envenom benefits from pandemic right?

[peak quarry]

since I run out of the energy few envenoms after

also is Exangunaite viable pvp or pve ?

[royal lantern]

exception is when tb is up, then you should try too get asmany out as possible

exsang was always bad for pvp in bfa, and right now TB is simply better for pretty much everything in pve too

[peak quarry]

thought so

Would be fun if rogues spec had some variety in talents. But oh well, one thing is most of the time the best

also what's the Pandemic ?

[royal lantern]

check the pins, in in there

[peak quarry]

oh wow

so that's what it is

hmm, I should do some Assa play. Gotta get good dagger. I already have 415 galecaller in my inventory

[royal lantern]

and we actually have some variety, but mostly on utility tiers

[peak quarry]

yeah, utillity is most of the time customizable

Thanks

[slow vessel]

would wound poison reduce the healing effect of sanguine on mobs?

[fleet whale]

i don't see why it wouldn't but it wouldn't be worth the loss of dps imo

[timber swan]

Guys what's a good aoe and st opener with MA.

[plush oasis]

Interested in that as well. Noticed the ST opener guide in the pins just puts what looks like toxic blade, one mutilate and one envenom in the crit window which seems wrong.

[timber swan]

Exactly what I was thinking

[bronze kelp]

Why should it be wrong?

Tb does good dmg and amplifies your poison dmg. So why not?

[plush oasis]

I was thinking a second tb buffed envenom would be worth more.

[bronze kelp]

Yep

The opener is not a fixed prio

But u can get unlucky with crits and only get 2 cp from mutilate

That's the part where you have to think 😉

[plush oasis]

Thanks @gusty kestrel , that's kinda the one I was wanting to do.

Of course, I have terrible luck so I anticipate cussing over 2pt muts.

[bronze kelp]

You just have to adapt to the situation

[plush oasis]

Which wouldn't be the worst thing really.

I have three DDs now I think anyway.

[outer ruin]

Does anyone know what % slow Cripple goes to with MP? is it 70%? or 60%?

[primal gazelle]

60%

[civic palm]

updates on tooltip to 60%, least it should

[heavy skiff]

is OP good in M+? i mean idk if i can trust dungeon slice...

aoe sim tells me to go crit one and st says op

they are close on dungeon slice but idk lul

[civic palm]

Overwhelming Power is overvalue'd still IIRC as it has unnatural uptimes in the SIM, the normal procs are much more reliable.

[lethal heart]

dont worry about tier 3 traits

unless its azerite globules

pretty much anything works

[civic palm]

Yeah.

[heavy skiff]

then im gonna go crit one

just cuz i like the high crit lul

[lethal heart]

crit is good stat for m+ in general

its not bad choice

[heavy skiff]

ye i know

get up to 40% crit with mekka trinket

[lethal heart]

no idea how much crit people run as assa nowadays

[heavy skiff]

and idk how much i can get when bbi procs and this shit procs

[lethal heart]

havent been playing much assa myself

because i dont have that great azerite

so i cba

and i mostly pass offspec/m+ azerite from raid for other people

coz im playing outlaw anyway in dungeons

[heavy skiff]

i play assa cuz my 300ms fuck up my outlul

[lethal heart]

i mean assa is gcd locked in aoe aswell

kind of

unless its like 3 targetsd

but 4+ targets you're gcd locked aswell

[heavy skiff]

ye but its always the same spell

fok fok fok fok

so spellque solves the issue

[lethal heart]

i guess

[heavy skiff]

but as outlaw i have to actualy do a rotation

and then im at 4cp

wanna press a finisher

but spell que throws out another ss

[lethal heart]

couldnt you solve that issue a bit

with spell queing ingame thing?

i dont know how taht works exactly

but there is some sort of lag tolerance or sth

that you can adjust

with some macros

[heavy skiff]

iw i put it lower then i cant use a spell every global

and cant burn my energy in adrenaline

[civic palm]

Spell Queue would work for smoothing that out yeah.

[heavy skiff]

if i put it too high this happens

[cinder delta]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[heavy skiff]

so i just play assa lul

assa is still fine in M+ as loong as trash lives long

[lethal heart]

y assa is ok in m+

[civic palm]

and for ST as SIN people are getting to ~25% and crit drops below haste/mastery, in M+ you get as much Crit as you can.

[heavy skiff]

and in +18 /19 it does 4 our group so...

[lethal heart]

in m+ you go for crit because its a stat that is useful for both st and aoe

whereas haste is useless for aoe

[civic palm]

Yeah you want 5CP every FoK if possible.

[lethal heart]

yea

high crit brings consistency to your aoe

[civic palm]

There's a mathematical breakpoint under 50% crit but w/e.

It varies a little with average target count but just get as much as you can.

[heavy skiff]

i saw my crit jump to 72%

when everything procd

[lethal heart]

ye blightborne is a good trait

and then idk maybe spyglass

[heavy skiff]

i would prefere another eb tbh

[lethal heart]

and unstable flames

[civic palm]

Blight is waaaaaaaaaay too much crit > _>"

[heavy skiff]

but i dont have a 415 one

[strange python]

I run spell queue 0

[heavy skiff]

how much ping do u have?

[strange python]

like 20ms

[heavy skiff]

well 20 vsa 300

xD

[civic palm]

Spell queue 0 is a no-no IMO.

[strange python]

my spell queue should be like 150

I ran 0 for the meme and forgot to replace it

[civic palm]

heh

and yeah 50-100 + your average ping

Find something that feels right.

[strange python]

not like it's a big deal on sin in st

but I'm aoe or on outlaw yeah

though I actually miss more casts on sin due to 0 queue than I do outlaw

[inland stump]

sorry to interrupt, looked at the guide but still wonder, is EB on the same ring as DD and SS?

if so, how many EB should I get instead cuz atm Im mostly focused on m+ but should still have 2 different sets for m+ and raiding?

is one EB enough or more needed or does it depend on dungeon?

[lone junco]

1eb is nothing.

[desert vault]

is 27+ in King's Rest decent for overall DPS?

I don't run it often, so not really sure what I should be expecting

er, 27k

[meager basalt]

27k overall is good if 340 ilvl

lol jk brother thats good in my eyes

[desert vault]

Right, I know it is not bad. I beat the DH and Mage by a large margin. Neither of them managed to break 20k overall, which is really low even in KR I'd assume

[meager basalt]

yikesssssss

20k is bare minimum in m+

[inland stump]

also depends on ur ilvl and encounter

sometimes also u can have trash runs and sometimes you have good runs and also with good players helps u dps so so much, and the other way around when you have bad player in your team

but how many EBs should be picked in m+?

[meager basalt]

1-2

i use 1 and do great

[desert vault]

I almost never run less than 2

but I have a very friendly 415 gear with EB

hard to not use it with my gear choices

[inland stump]

cuz I have only the rupture agility buff(forgot to theme)

i dont ahve pieces with EBs either and overall lately been focusing on raiding build since I was recently in a raid trial

[desert vault]

I don't run SoB much at all, pretty much a constant mix of TtK, EB, and SS

[inland stump]

i will try to get a piece with EB

well its either that or a trash trait

so have to

[desert vault]

and almost always Blight if you have Gorak shoulders

[inland stump]

my chest piece is very very meh

i have those 😄

its so awesome

i get around 50% crit with it

plus the harlan trinket and weap enchant

got gorek tulle 415 shoulders on my first TR buy

but at the very least 1 EB then?

[desert vault]

I've yet to get them, shoulders

yeah for sure at least one EB

at least

[inland stump]

well I just wanted better shoulders and got BIS on first try xD

alright thanks 😃

cuz otherwise I have 2 DD, 1 SS 1 NP and the blight trait, rest are random good stuff

[primal gazelle]

Asia MDI Team D Assa rog running 3x EB 3x SS with HIDDEN BLADES

im so proud

the meme lives on

[desert orchid]

is there a way to see the specs and gear of the rogues in the end mdis?

[cold saffron]

hey there! was just wondering if my stats are looking ok and if not what i should be at for single target?http://prntscr.com/n8iv7l

[inland stump]

hey @cold saffron there is a pinned post answering just that and also you should do a stat weights at raidbots.com

Stats:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[quasi pewter]

stats "looking ok" is irrelevant, do top gear sim and just take the best gear you have. @cold saffron

[desert orchid]

how is sin holding up to outlaw in m+?

[inland stump]

yea exactly @quasi pewter 😃

i personally go for mastery, crit, haste and it works good for me 😃 its different for player to player since you can do several different builds

[cold saffron]

alright cool, thanks all!

[inland stump]

assassin works very good for me in m+ but my aoe is not that good because I haven't got any EB traits yet and according to MDI, Outlaw seems to be a lot better since thats the only Rogue spec and even dps spec they use almost

but then again, they use specific strategies and playstyles

yw @cold saffron 😃

[strange python]

outlaw is easier to gear and has a higher top end in aoe

sin is competitive 100%

[steep obsidian]

sin is only ok if you can restealth

[strange python]

and you can be cutting edge in m+ with sin

[steep obsidian]

otherwise its pretty garbo

a lot of tanks want to be chain pulling and pull reapings onto trash and shit

and you only go ooc to reset pot timer at the top end

[strange python]

chain pulling with a sin rogue in your group straight up makes you a bad tank

in fact chain pulling at all is generally a bad sign outside of predetermined strats

pull big or pull small, but finish your pull

[steep obsidian]

i know

but of course

you cater strats round your comp

and the strats for top teams arent catered around reliable resetealths

did see one or 2 sin rogues for some reason in this weeks tourney

i think it was kings rest though so that prolly makes sense

do any of you guys use the "bequiet" mod which takes away the talking heads from world quests and dungeons and stuff?

I think its lagging me out

[primal gazelle]

there was a sin rogue used for shrine

[bronze kelp]

If you run 3ss than your tank can't chain pull. But if you only play 1ss, he can und you still end up competitive. @steep obsidian and @strange python

Also pull big and end your pull is not right. In ML for example u chain pull a lot. Finish of the dangerous mobs and continue. That's Important if you wanna time high keys

[lost horizon]

You need to get resets for pots anyways

Chaining can be good but it's not like you wanna spend the whole dungeon in combat

[tropic ocean]

@steep obsidian using mdi to see if something is viable or not for m+ is not the best data to base that on

99% of players won't see any pulls close to what happens there

[tawdry rune]

Hello fellow assassins!

[unborn barn]

Hello fellow

[fallen bay]

is bursting blood worth on trash fights or is it still more worthy to pop agility one ?

[rose perch]

Agility is better in all cases but especially on AoE - bursting blood's damage splits among all targets so it doesn't increase with extra targets, but Agi does!

[strange python]

would you run CT this week for dungeons?

subterfuge with ss is a given but fort makes me think CT

though, in a 10, I hardly believe it matters.

i'm gonna do it

TB CT meta

[shy axle]

how are you engaging reaping as Assa with 3x Eb/3xSS? Read something about just spamming fok, or still getting rup/env out and doing normal fok spamm for the cp`s?

[tropic ocean]

@strange python not worth in a 10

[strange python]

yeah i can tell LOL

19k dps on trash pull be like

[tropic ocean]

@shy axle depends on pull if dropping combat 3x ss spam fok put some ruptures if not dropping combat put some ruptures spam fok

[shy axle]

not using cps then or how do you mean it?

[strange python]

if you aren't in combat when reap starts

[tropic ocean]

Yes using cp for 3-4 rupture

[strange python]

put out 3 SSes

and use CP for rupture

after that spam FoK

[tropic ocean]

Then envenom high hp mob

[strange python]

^

[shy axle]

ok thanks guys

[strange python]

3-4 ruptures should be fine

[tropic ocean]

• spam fok

[strange python]

I need to make a focus macro

for like focus garrote, rup, envenom

lol

[umbral fiber]

can also snipe lowhp mobs with rupture for extra energy regen if needed

[strange python]

tru fax

mouseover rupture be like

[rigid mango]

What haste values are you guys at for your raid setups?

[umbral fiber]

22

[rigid mango]

I feel as if though my haste is too low and I'm getting cucked

hm

[rigid mango]

Mine's at just under 16 but other shit is simming higher 🤔

[rigid mango]

hmm ur crit is way lower than mine hm

[strange python]

your haste changes like

nothing.

removal of 76 haste is like

.2 energy regen

[rigid mango]

yy but still

I feel like I'm HARD struggeling to get 3x TB'd env

[strange python]

..do u have deadly poison up? 🤔

[rigid mango]

Yah

Like

[strange python]

I made that mistake LOL

[rigid mango]

I can fit 2, but nearly never 3

[strange python]

pool beforehand really

[solid nova]

Thats why its 2+, not 3+

[rigid mango]

yeah man, killed first 2 bosses w out deadly poison on

🤔

[strange python]

if you're in AoE have ruptures out before your TB

3 is rare

[solid nova]

Because the 3rd isnt always possible

[strange python]

I normally get 2

[rigid mango]

Ah ok

Like

I feel like my dps

is so low

[umbral fiber]

3rd one is almost RNG based

[strange python]

with a lot of bleeds or exceptional pooling I can get 3

[rigid mango]

and I've got no clue why

[umbral fiber]

cause of DD crits

[strange python]

but it matters when your bleeds tick as well

[rigid mango]

hm yeah

[strange python]

so it's not as much RNG on that as it is just rainman math

[rigid mango]

I'm still sorta geared into m+ shit so my haste isn't as high as I want it to be

@solid nova would you mind checking a log of mine?

[strange python]

if u post it someone will check it

[rigid mango]

this is like my first week back to raiding after like a 2 month hiatus

[solid nova]

Ye can do.

[rigid mango]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1gTfZdH8CKtnRyFc#fight=15&type=damage-done&source=100

[strange python]

u drop garrote more times than the boss switches

[rigid mango]

mind you I just got my spymaster's after raid so I've now got a bit better az

[solid nova]

Wheres the garrote on the opener?

[rigid mango]

Did i seriously miss that?

yikers

Yeah I know it's supposed to be there

[strange python]

ma tb so

garr mut rup vendetta vanish tb (mut 4+) env (mut 4+) env

iirc

[rigid mango]

idk I know I played that entire raid horrendously since I've solely played outlaw m+ for the last like 2-3 weeks ish

yeah

[strange python]

haha yeah idk

[rigid mango]

I know the opener, I must've just fucked it up

[strange python]

garrote is

reaaaally big to miss

[rigid mango]

aye

Agreed

[strange python]

you start with mut then rupture

mut rup vanish vendetta tb mut env mut env

is your opener

add a garrote to the intro, swap vanish and vendetta

and ur fine

[rigid mango]

yeah ik

I'm still relativly new to all these fights

[solid nova]

Your tb windows are fine, idk where you got the info on 3+

[strange python]

3 is exceedingly rare

[rigid mango]

aight fair enough

[strange python]

you're probably not going to get 3 by planning for it

[rigid mango]

I jsut felt like I never really properly got the power off of tb from it

seeing as how I feel my dps is severely lacking

[strange python]

if TB were 1s longer 3s would be more common fwiw, but it's not 1s longer, so don't feel bad

[umbral fiber]

Be happy with 2, consider yourself lucky with 3

x)

[solid nova]

You didnt 2nd pot either

[rigid mango]

That's just because RL said "we didn't need to"

during those bosses

[strange python]

do it anyway

[rigid mango]

and also I'm a cheap ass

so

[strange python]

your pots, your money

[solid nova]

I mean if youre wanting to parse

It counts lol

[rigid mango]

I mean yeah

[strange python]

i don't prepot or 2nd pot bc i can't afford them

so it's whatever

[rigid mango]

idm parses

[ruby oxide]

You should be double potting LFR to flex on normies. It's a good habit to have

[solid nova]

Idk i think if youre raiding you should be making the effort to afford them

[rigid mango]

Yeah

i can

and I do

[umbral fiber]

Make sure to also post dps meter after LFR encounter

[solid nova]

Especially if its mythic

[rigid mango]

but if RL says i don't need to, I wont

ik it's a dickish attitude or whatnot

[solid nova]

Well looking at the log only a select few people are listening to that

Even your tank 2nd potted 😄

[rigid mango]

Well for them it's mostly parsing time

I'm still learning fight

s

[solid nova]

Thats fair, i think its a good habit to get into regardless

[rigid mango]

yeah defo

ig it's just using it at 2nd vend?

[strange python]

yeah if you're not poor

[rigid mango]

I'm not poor, just, cheap

[strange python]

i'm both ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rigid mango]

But are there any like, proper rotational faults?

[strange python]

yes

your opener

[rigid mango]

well yeah

but apart from that

[strange python]

also

you held TB for a very long time

near the end of the fiht

1 minute 1 second

[rigid mango]

I held it for that long?

[strange python]

that's over 2 casts

tb sin relies on those burst windows

[rigid mango]

yeah I get that

Should I be focusing more on utilising EP/Env uptimes?

[umbral fiber]

just start pooling energy 5secs before it comes off CD

[rigid mango]

Yeah I know how pooling works etc

I'm just insanely rusty and feel like I can defo improve atm

[solid nova]

Yeah you did hold it for 1minute

Not sure why

[pastel crow]

How is assasination doing in m+?

[solid nova]

248-311

And its doing great

[rigid mango]

hm

[pastel crow]

Good at raid aswell?

[solid nova]

Yup

[rigid mango]

It's good at raiding good at m+

[pastel crow]

What trait for m+?

[rigid mango]

SS/EB/TTK

But stats wise

is 16%~ haste a bit low for raiding?

[solid nova]

Not at all

[rigid mango]

hm

I might just be used to outlaw in that case

because it feels as if though I've fucked something up

[solid nova]

Feel though

[royal lantern]

sin is slow

[rigid mango]

Yeah

well

I look at my parses

and I feel^

[solid nova]

Yeah but the overall raid performance isnt great

Thats a factor

[rigid mango]

Wdym mine or the raid team in general?

[solid nova]

Team in general

[rigid mango]

ah yeah conc was a shitshow

[strange python]

your ele sham pumps tho

xeera

[rigid mango]

Yeah

He's insane

He's a living parse machine

and a good raider at that

[solid nova]

When people get more comfortable itll show as well

[rigid mango]

I just need to beat that other rogue

[strange python]

you did beat that other rogue

[rigid mango]

Yeah

well she died

so

[strange python]

by like 3k dps

[rigid mango]

Aye but she's beating me on other fights

[solid nova]

If he didnt die in that log, I dont want to look into it 😂

[rigid mango]

I mean

I died

[strange python]

their best conc is 18.3k

you did 18.4k

[lethal mauve]

How looking ma opener mut rap mut gar vendetta tb mut(4-5) vanish env mut (if 4 env if <4 mut) env

[strange python]

wrong*

garr mut rup vendetta vanish tb mut4 env mut4 env

[rigid mango]

but last seconds

[strange python]

you can experiment with moving specific things in other places

like TB before vanish

but

that's going to feel terrible if you don't crit

[rigid mango]

how much do you guys focus on EP/Env uptime?

[strange python]

don't

if you have the energy to spare, keep it rolling

otherwise focus more on bleeds and TB windows

don't starve yourself trying to get EP/env uptime

[rigid mango]

kk

http://prntscr.com/n8nmi2

[strange python]

plume 🤢

[rigid mango]

wdym

[strange python]

hate on-use trinkets

[rigid mango]

everyone does

but atleast it's just like

another button to press whilst ur doing vend rotation etc

and nothing more

I'm just amazed to see ML trink out simming dice, might be because it's 20 ilvls higher up

🤷

[golden relic]

how can u hate plume

just macro it to vendetta

[brisk forge]

So true XD

Gale is another story tho

[umbral fiber]

i liked it for uldir/season 1

but now it feels pretty meh ngl

[brisk forge]

It was bettet fight for it there, to much movement in Bod

[cloud iris]

39% crit unbuffed with 406 ilvl hmmmm

[ruby oxide]

That's a fuck ton for assassination. Haste or mastery is suffering somewhere. I remember having mastery overtake crit for stat priority at around 25% crit for me. to be 39% you must have crit on about every piece of gear.

[cloud iris]

hell yea dude

only doing m+ tho

3x twist and 2x echoing blades + 39% crit and spyglass+harlans g motherfckin g

[ruby oxide]

Oh, that's a totally different story, I was focused on single target, not thinking about M+

39% is still nutty

[real bay]

35% crit 40% mast

[wanton pond]

for raid if im not running shrouded whats the opener look like ?

[tropic ocean]

garrote mutilate rupture vendetta vanish toxic blade mutilate to 4+ envenom

[bleak spoke]

I still think even if you’re doing Tb in vendetta that’s inaccurate

If you have double dose

Like why not g m r v m vanish Tb env m

You’re e neutral except you’ve given yourself a higher dd proc chance in this scenario

[arctic harness]

Got the +15 dungeon achievement, switched back to sin, FeelsGoodMan

Shrine was complete AIDS to get this week

[rigid mango]

It's always bad.

[arctic harness]

That dungeon can never go smooth

Something always goes wrong

[rigid mango]

I mean all you need to do is skip all mini bosses/do death runs

then it's easy.

"easy"

Easier

[arctic harness]

Yeah but then someone ninja pulls, especially with sanguine and little space

[rigid mango]

And that's explaining most dungeons with sanguine

welcome to sanguine

[arctic harness]

True, but Shrine has so many skips

[rigid mango]

I mean

It shouldn't have too many that fuck you over

pull wise

[arctic harness]

Yeah, that dungeon compared to FH or TD is such a world of difference in terms of balancing

[rigid mango]

I mean

Kr

SoTS and Siege

Siege on tyr

same for ToS on tyr, atleast old ToS pre-8.1.5 nerfs

[arctic harness]

Siege with bolstering

[rigid mango]

Is insane compared to shit like AD/TD/FH

Meh

siege with bolstering is aids, but every other week

the last boss is a like 6-7+ min fight

Where on higher keys if you don't have a 2nd dispell your healer is fucked.

[arctic harness]

Yeah, and then add a guardian druid on top as a tank

And imagine the struggles i had

[rigid mango]

Imagine running with a guardian druid

You could still leave.

I would, If I saw a guardian druid for a push key I was doing

[arctic harness]

Charrrrrrrrrge

[royal lantern]

well, gotta FotM reroll

[strange python]

zandalari troll with paku buff or belf for assa?

[vestal wren]

!sims both sites have race sims, else you can just sim it on raidbots

[prisma monolith]

BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[strange python]

ive seen the sims but i was wondering if people prefer ztroll over belf just because of the buff versatility

[royal lantern]

most people play the races they think looks better cus race differences are pretty much only in sims anyway

atleast the %stat / dps difference

[tropic ocean]

belf racial is mvp

[stuck knoll]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[civic forge]

is it ok to toxic blade even on 5 cp if it comes off cooldown at that time?

or do you finish first -> toxic blade

[spice surge]

Think of it this way

1 CP is essentially 20% of an envenom

TB buffs envenom by 30%

30%>20%, therefore you tb and waste cp then envenom.

[civic forge]

is it that easy though? i mean tb could crit and i'm wasting 2 at that point

i guess the avg dmg is still lower than 30%

ill just use on cd

[hasty brook]

Is assassin still worth it now in endgame? Keep seeing top rogues as outlaw

[royal lantern]

sin is the better spec for raids

[hasty brook]

But outlaw playstyle is too RNG for my taste

[royal lantern]

actually look at the logs pal

the top log outlaws use aoe talents too pad dps

[hasty brook]

Ah

[royal lantern]

not doing actuall boss dmg

for raids sin>outlaw, for m+ right now outlaw>sin, both works for both content 100%fine

[hasty brook]

That's a relief. I figured for aoe they were the bees knees because of all their talents being about it.

[stuck knoll]

At this stage all top logs are all about abusing the fight which outlaw is better at than sin but sin is the better raid spec

[visual quartz]

cant think about TB crit being a waste as the same way that you Mut at 3cp but if it crit youd lose 1-2cps

[robust light]

can i cloak or evasion or something to cheese the in the air phase on jadefire mythic?

[civic forge]

yeah it's called doing the mechanic correctly

[ember remnant]

why would you want to cheese it? you get 25% dmg bonus

[civic forge]

cause you want the 25% dmg buff it gives

[hasty brook]

Was about to say, ain't that avoidable?

[robust light]

didnt know it did that :p

[ember remnant]

and you should be using cloak on traps

[robust light]

yeah ofc i cn just dop it, i just figured if i can cheese it why not, but didnt know about the buff

[rigid mango]

Is it worth saving vend+vanish an extra min on stormwall for it to align with hero?

[stuck knoll]

Are you gonna miss a vend vanish if you do

If no then yes wait

If yes then no

[rigid mango]

hm

Killed it at 6.20 last time

So probably not?

[stuck knoll]

If you killed in 6.20 you are gonna get 3 full vends in if you pop them as they come up

So in that case waiting would make you miss one

[rigid mango]

Aye

[stuck knoll]

And that's not worth

[bleak spoke]

You mean 4 right :^)

Also 6:20 is a really pretty kill time for our cds

[stuck knoll]

Yeah 4 sorry

[rigid mango]

It's perfect

[strange python]

for king rasta mythic can you cloak the soak ability

that siegebreaker does

[royal lantern]

is it magical dmg

[stuck knoll]

Apparently you can

It's nature damage

[strange python]

k

it's just monkaS trying it

[leaden garden]

Hey guys. I am trying out master assasin talent for the first time, and am wondering about the rotation. I get dots up, then vendetta-->vanish-->toxic blade?

[rigid mango]

Would it be better to use 2nd pot during MA etc or during hero w out any MA?

[civic palm]

During BL/Hero is usually a good choice.

[rigid mango]

Yeah but is it worth more than using it during MA burst window?

[civic palm]

Yeah.

[royal lantern]

if heroism is like 10sec away you should hold cd's anyway

[rigid mango]

Nah it's an entire minute away

It's bang in the middle betwee both 2nd and 3rd vend

[obtuse cedar]

Hey, I sometimes read that gcb on Jaina wasn't that good bcs she often changes spell order. Shall I use plumage even if it is 10 item level lower ? I can't really tell

It's a no brainer but gcb feels rather nice with tb

[royal lantern]

the dps difference bettwen plumage and gcb is not that big

but its really easy too fuck up gcb, while plumage is almost impossible too fuck up, you just use it togheter with vendetta

i would take plumage, for gcb too be better you need too use it on cd and stand in for 100%of the time for the entire fight

[obtuse cedar]

Alright, thank you very much !

[empty badge]

Since im using 3 EB, is Hidden Blades good for M+?

[tropic ocean]

Its decent

[shell briar]

Rogue can somehow soak coin shower on mythic difficulty? #opulence

[stable pine]

No

It’s psychical dmg

[shell briar]

faint + cheap death would be enough?

[spice surge]

No

You cant solo coin shower as a rogue without bop

Cheat death only saves up to 2x your max hp

And coin shower does like 3.5M

[rigid mango]

http://prntscr.com/n8tw0u

[signal stream]

what spec is everyone playing on alliance

i really dont wanna be a gnome but hero damage has rogue as top 😦

[lusty narwhal]

Races are a negligible difference

Play what you want

[lost horizon]

Nelf has pretty big benefits in m+

[lost sentinel]

I am thinking about trying blood rite instead of SOB in M+, think it's good?

[ionic dome]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[lost sentinel]

my build is a 3eb, 2xss + 1 SOB, thinking about swapping SOB for blood rite

I know haste isn't like... super good in M+ MT scenarios but it seems like it could have a lot of uptime

[rigid mango]

I'd swap your initial az set up if I were you

If you're playing the heavy EB/SS you might aswell go Outlaw

@signal stream Nelf has a substantial increase in damage if you run an SS focused build

[lost sentinel]

not really interested in swapping specs, just curious about blood rite 😛

[tidal gyro]

hello , can sin use sword as off hand ?

[spice surge]

You cant use mutilate if you dont have two daggers, so no

[tidal gyro]

thanks

[lone halo]

haven't played sin in m+ in a while. are people still using crimson tempest or just relying on EB and using PB?

or use PB on tyrannical and CT during fortified?

[grim canopy]

Best m+ traits 3eb 3ss?

[tough lantern]

@grim canopy https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/ds-t23-assassination

[grim canopy]

thx

[last egret]

hi any have auras for all trinkets ?

[arctic harness]

Generally you use PB and rely on EB damage for aoe. Use 2SS, 2EB and 2 TTK. I use 1 TTK and 1 BBI

[leaden garden]

Master asasin for st and subterfuge for aoe, is that the general idea?

[distant lava]

not really, pretty sure it depends on your traits

[lone junco]

subterfuge goes with SS trait.

which does 1,2,3 t well

[leaden garden]

If no ss traits, i go MA even for m+?

[lone junco]

get 1 ss trait for M+

[night vale]

anyone who' s simming around 27k ST can you link me your sim? im trying to figure out why i can barely get 25k

[slim socket]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pfQ98JyW2oGUdhju8LjNeL

Almost there

[night vale]

thanks 😄 see im same ilvl as you but 2k behind on sims.... think its due to not having overhwhelming power.... ive got 3xDD and 3xNP

[mighty elm]

what are these sims

https://tenor.com/view/smh-kanyewest-gif-5027619

[rough yarrow]

sec wrong gear on

[mighty elm]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dWPoMN1FiLZQR5Y8vGfaJK

[rough yarrow]

ill redo it

[mighty elm]

almost there

[jovial adder]

Lmao 419

[slim socket]

419 🤔

[heavy trail]

Sitting here happy to be in 26k club: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8QPnqtCm3fdDFcWH57BjwW

[rough yarrow]

we have a dh with 421

420.91 if i recall

[slim socket]

Guess we gonna have 28k club soon

[rough yarrow]

some ppl......

[mighty elm]

if i gem mastery i should hit 28 k

[jovial adder]

Almost wanna race change to break that 27k

[night vale]

okay, i really need help.... can someone take a look and see if you can spot anything obviously wrong with my gear? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uVk9crK5poK41K3s2izcrw

[mighty elm]

why simmin patchwerk with EB

[high siren]

still 415 azerite

[rough yarrow]

u have x3 eb

thats for dungeon

[heavy trail]

@night vale no OP, no BB, thats whats making the high differences 😄

[night vale]

i simmed with my raid gear... i just logged out in m+ gear

@heavy trail ty, i thought so

need to get that gorak tuls

[rough yarrow]

my bb from 3rd np is like 70 dps

[heavy trail]

i do have goraks, now cephalo xD

[slim socket]

Tbh BB is not big upgrade on sim comparing to NP

[rough yarrow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pkzy72BmJdQrtB2U3n7Z32

its minor upgrade

not even worth changing. play whatever

[slim socket]

GCB yikes

[rough yarrow]

if i change those useless trinkets i could go to 28k at least

yea i know

if it didnt have socket i would have delete it

[slim socket]

Hate that trinket on melee

[rough yarrow]

tell me about it

i have 400 harlan

its loss

i use it only on jaina

[slim socket]

I have unstable catalyst on my chest

[rough yarrow]

im so lucky in all other gear exept trinkets

trinkets just refuse to drop

i have runned over 150 freeholds

[high siren]

those are rookie numbers

[rough yarrow]

for someone that doewnt run dungeons is a lot

doesnt*

lets hope ill be lucky with new raids mastery trinket

even in normal it would be upgrade

[mighty elm]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hyWDyDMnJCYLvLWvrHD9HN

28k dream

[high siren]

the titanforging master

[vast forum]

419 ilvl wtf is that? That's illegal

[rough yarrow]

25% to cap neck. no more wqs. i can only log again in new raid

if u think 419 is illegal ppl with 421 need to be charged with death penalty

[mighty elm]

all i want is a better harlan, then im set till next tier

[rough yarrow]

amen

but.........

yea

i wish i had your trinkets

[mighty elm]

i run a 400 harlan usually, but mekka 415 sims 15 dmg higher had to put it on to break 28k sim

[rough yarrow]

id like to reach 420 illv for the memes but needs 2 tf

lul

[vast forum]

You guys are funny

I'd love to reach 415 1st

400 socket gcb and 410 spyglass

400 socket bracet, 405 socket cloak

Sockets are cool i guess

[rough yarrow]

i trade 410 with 10 sockets over 420 all day

[vast forum]

I still don't sim 28k tho

[rough yarrow]

and it matters why?

[vast forum]

Even with 6 sockets

[rough yarrow]

if u r close to 25k u r more than fine till june for new raid

[bleak spoke]

ah shit, finally part of the 27k club https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xoEVtLY8RapicUdvviVCzV

[lament dove]

raising your ilevel is not much fun when you change your socketed items to non-socketed ones...

at least your hp goes up and you stay alive for longer

[bleak spoke]

i mean if it sims better it sims better

[vast forum]

Some people care about ilvl parses

"i ranked green but my 402 ilvl parse with 8 sockets was purple so i'm good"

[nimble tartan]

dude i hate sockets so much

like i feel like a beta wweearing 2 400 rings with sockets

im tryna slap on this 415

like a CHAD

[vast forum]

400 bracer, 405 cloak, 400trinket and 400 ring with sockets

[solar rose]

#1 ilevel parser is a sick feat to have !!!

[nimble tartan]

flawless kiss me

[vast forum]

Parsing in bod

[nimble tartan]

as a staunch anti-parser

i have not used subterfuge once in bod

see ya

[strange python]

i feel you, im 409 because 8 sockets

[vast forum]

All fights are literally pad fiesta or mechanic rng

[solar rose]

@nimble tartan

[lament dove]

it's not about parses, it's about the sense of advancement (which is kind of a basic element in RPG-like games), or rather the lack of it

[royal lantern]

if you want good logs, ofc its a pad party

[lament dove]

finally something drops and then it's not even an upgrade sometimes because of lack of socket

[royal lantern]

wich is 1 of the reason why i dont REALLY care about parses, they are too luck based on most fights imo

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7X25V5cJA5b4BtxKpdbo2r

soon 27k, soon.....

just gimme 2 sockets and im fine :c

[cobalt pelican]

rank one parses might be luck based but general parse% is pretty accurate in most cases

the only cases it's not really are like, mekka and i guess rastakhan if for some god forsaken reason you're downstairs

[royal lantern]

1st kill=i had almost all mechanics on me for that pull

.....that maybe explains why the kill happend i gues?

[vast forum]

Tbh, 1st boss parse depends on your grp more than you

[covert crag]

[vast forum]

Opulence doesn't even count

[dark crag]

Up to this day, there are groups who play adds

[spring yoke]

Usually people who parse really bad think that it's pure luck based 🙃

[vestal wren]

Mekka parses are pure luck

[spring yoke]

Agree on that

[rough yarrow]

yea cause stromwalls are pure skill or grong

[solar rose]

I don’t think jaina is luck either

[rough yarrow]

it is

[solar rose]

It’s not

[rough yarrow]

get x3 broad sides

[royal lantern]

lucky me that my logs are decent

[vestal wren]

The majority of other fights are killtime strategy group constellation....

[rough yarrow]

cause reasons

[royal lantern]

if you ignore mekka and blockade

[rough yarrow]

and grong and jaina

[solar rose]

Broadsides don’t need to move to narnia

What

[rough yarrow]

its still 3 sec no dps

[mighty elm]

3 sec of no melee atks

[rough yarrow]

in 3 secs u lose 200-400 dps

[solar rose]

3s of no dps isn’t going to deter a rank 1 areyou ok

[mighty elm]

nani

[spring yoke]

It's not like you can't recover from that lol

[rough yarrow]

from one no. but if u get them all its big loss

like getting 4 bombs on mecca

[vast forum]

Not really

[solar rose]

not all the same

LOL

[vast forum]

Assa doesn't lose much dps if no energy is overcapped while moving out for mechanics

Like, some aa and deadly poison dps

Really small amounts

[mighty elm]

getting a bot on mekka during intermission or not is a pretty big diff

[vast forum]

Getting all the bombs and bots on mekka

[dark crag]

And the outlaw gets 0 and has a 5buff, but you are just a bit behind

[solar rose]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HKz8pjBw32yFhXnV#fight=45&type=auras&source=15&spells=debuffs got 1 broadside, it killed my damage

[royal lantern]

that log is weird

1xweakened soul?

did the priest never gave you atoment?

[vast forum]

Mend and radiance apply atonement

Without weakened soul

[lethal heart]

jaina logs

[vast forum]

Also if you use the cloak bug

[royal lantern]

when do you shadowmend a non-tank unless they REALLY fucked something up lol

[vast forum]

You don't really need healing

[drifting cloud]

cloak bug hasnt been a thing for like 3 resets

[royal lantern]

^

[vast forum]

Smend is better for applying atonement if u can stand still

[nimble tartan]

ele damage pog

[vast forum]

Idk when that log is from i'm on phone and cba to check

[royal lantern]

the problem is that smend is draining your mana faster then BC dungeon adds that use mana drain

[nimble tartan]

were u streamin this 1 flawless i wanna see some hot pov

[solar rose]

Nah I wasn’t that week unfortunately

[stable pine]

How come you don’t stream as much anymore flawless?

[solar rose]

Writing outlaw m+ guide for wowhead, literally has been eating up my days. Almost done tho

I stream again soon

[royal lantern]

just delete everything

and write ''just roll good 4head''

yes, ik that rolls dont matter for m+ etc etc........

[solar rose]

I wish it was that easy I wouldn’t of wrote 70 pages on my google doc

[lethal heart]

70 pages

did you write how to play every pack in every dungeon

[solar rose]

Yes

[nimble tartan]

Here u blade flurry

[tropic ocean]

well and theres people that even with that will fail

you know ;P

[cloud iris]

@solar rose is that google doc pined somewhere? Would be interesting to read

[marble hemlock]

@solar rose slacker 😦

betraying assa for outlaw 😦

[solar rose]

You can read it when it goes public on the site, need to finish formatting and I’ll probably end up doing assas one too dunno yet

Assas is still my true love

[marble hemlock]

yet youre sleeping around with outlaw

[thorn ore]

And sub?

[solar rose]

Sub in 2019 😂

[distant lava]

ouch

[marble hemlock]

assa is the new sub

[solar rose]

^

[marble hemlock]

hmu when you wanna re-approach the initial assa-guide

[lethal heart]

sub

[marble hemlock]

i think i still have most of the old docs i wrote for that, and i also did some stuff for MDI in that regard

[solar rose]

Ok 👍

[marble hemlock]

and if i see you playing outlaw again, ill have to report the heresy to the ass-inquisition

[solar rose]

[marble hemlock]

god

i cant type

[distant lava]

don't worry man you have backup

[marble hemlock]

doesnt matter

i can multidot

[distant lava]

i have a gun tho

[marble hemlock]

steps behind you

nothing personal

[distant lava]

yep but i can grapling away

keep your wits about you

[marble hemlock]

literal assassination skills

[solar rose]

Role play

[distant lava]

and i have an ace up my sleeve

[marble hemlock]

anyway

the problem with mapping out dungeons is usually that everyones pulls are a bit differently

[solar rose]

Ok I’m max degenerate and it’s 8am and I’m still up I go sleep now

[marble hemlock]

go do that 😉

[solar rose]

I’m not telling people what to press assuming it’s one route, explaining trash abilities and what you can do to help your team also succeed

[marble hemlock]

ah ye

[solar rose]

Like not using kick on fiery enchant instead using it elsewhere and using blind or gouge on it, and it stopping the cast as you’ve kicked it

[marble hemlock]

that makes sense

anyway, go to bed

[solar rose]

Stuff like that

[lethal heart]

it's kind of advanced

to minmax your kicks like that

but its not bad to have it somewhere

i guess

[solar rose]

Mhmm it’s not a basic guide

[lethal heart]

makes sense then y

[marble hemlock]

theres a lot of stuff that people dont know. think most of the people are still surprised whenever i explain how i multidot without autoattack due to angling my character correctly 😄

[lethal heart]

knowing what abilities you must kick because mob spam recasts versus what abilities you can BTE/gouge/whatever other random disrupt is valuable

[marble hemlock]

ye

[lethal heart]

and even then

sometimes you can disrupt the recastable shit for long enough

till he prios other spell

its kind of

fucked up

[marble hemlock]

kinda lika jaina in that sense

[lethal heart]

like spiritualists in shrine

[marble hemlock]

where the nova doesnt get cast at all

[lethal heart]

they do heal

you can disrupt it like

5 times

and then they prio anchor

to then cast heal again

[bleak spoke]

happens with wicked frenzy too, when you hit it three times with blind/gouge/stuns it'll try to cast raise dead again

[lethal heart]

y

[bleak spoke]

big weird

cuz it feels random but also consistent

[lethal heart]

its not random

mob just prios other cast over another

[bleak spoke]

random as in there's really no info about it at all i guess

[lethal heart]

ye

thats true

was same in legion

somewhat

i mean

every expansion it was same probably

you just needed to find it

because ye

rng

[bleak spoke]

i'm kinda okay with them not explaining literally everything though

cuz part of what makes it fun i guess

just kinda annoying when stupid stuff happens that probably wasn't intended but is really punishing

[lethal heart]

its just

look at stuff like earthquake

and how much it can punish you

because randomness

[bleak spoke]

[bleak spoke]

@marble hemlock Any helms with eb sob?

Cuz I have those scent eb shoulders from underrot and the grong chest with ss scent so almost there :^)

[marble hemlock]

arena helmet

is the only one

[bleak spoke]

I’d check myself but mobile rn

Wait real

How about scent ss

[marble hemlock]

opu helmet

has scent+ss

[bleak spoke]

Oh shit I have that

Wait I can actually field 3 sob 2 ss 1 eb at 415

That’s kinda troll

[marble hemlock]

how many op/uf with that setup?

[bleak spoke]

Uh I know that the opu helm has elemental whirl as the best

I think the shoulders from underrot have unstable flames?

And I think grong vest does as well

But yeah the generic stats rings are vaguely depleted iirc

What would you even play with this setup is the question though

Like some exsang ct kinda deal?

[marble hemlock]

definitely CT

since its the best way for you to scale your aoe

through the extra agi from multidotting

CT scales very well

which entirely defeats the purpose of a prio build

[bleak spoke]

Yeah pbomb seems kinda depleted without toxic blade

[marble hemlock]

well, PB also scales entirely through agi, so its still an option

[bleak spoke]

But then you kinda run out of buttons to press innit

[marble hemlock]

the prio build would probably be tb+pb regardless

set up 6-7 ruptures for stats

then pop TB, blast envenoms for prio

and start dotting up again

[bleak spoke]

That’s soooo many globals

That’s like 15 globals if you get lucky

Behwmsvwuvdiaka

[marble hemlock]

well, prio doesnt have to come instantly unless its about bursting one mob quickly

if its just to even out mob health

it doesnt really matter when the prio burst comes in

if its 5sec into the pull or 15sec, if the mob lives 25sec regardless

[bleak spoke]

It really feels like this build occupies the space between giga aoe assa and idk like affliction warlock or something

Where you take 15-20 seconds of setup to blast on one mob exactly

It just seems really depleted

Cuz strength of sub prio is that it’s fast right

Shadowstrike out of stealth, put a nightblade on, storm, and then your next global is 120k

[marble hemlock]

same for ttk. 3g+1r setup, so 4gcds, and then its just fok, vendetta, tb and blast

after the TB you still have enough time to multi-rupture to not starve

[bleak spoke]

And while ttk prio is slower is 4 globals fok got points vendetta Tb and then you sink 110k env

Yeah

[spice surge]

I mean, nobody is arguing that assa has better prio than sub

[bleak spoke]

With vendetta sometimes it’s overly generous on energy innit

[spice surge]

Its just that assa does actual aoe damage while doing decent prio

[bleak spoke]

No we’re talking about how it seems like this scent of blood setup might have good prio

As in good damage to the focus target, but I’m saying there’s no way it’s fast enough

By the time you start envenoms the outlaw rogues done an entire full flurry

[vestal wren]

BBl could also potentially outdo ttk

[bleak spoke]

I believe it

That trait is so overtuned

[mint peak]

I don't think it's overtuned at all

[bleak spoke]

And also it has the knock on effect of adding certainty to this prio when it procs

Like cuz the setup is Tb and hopefully 4 envenoms right

With nice crit (somewhere between like 40-50% with procs, trinkets etc) in a medium sized pack

It’s like you’re not likely to get it every time right

Or even that often

But 415 bbi is 1.4k crit

That’s like a hilarious amount of crit

[lament dove]

almost 20%

[spice surge]

But its not ontop of herodamage so it cant be overtuned