do you hold vendetta for 4th exsang always
#assassination
solar rose
It also feeds into your energy at the start of packs so you can get bleeds out faster
solar rose
Depends if the boss will die or not.
bleak spoke
cuz i'm not playing high enough keys where the boss fights all last super long (like in 18s/19s they're still dying at that really awkward spot)
so basically always just make sure i vendetta twice?
solar rose
in the 18/19 tyrannical range you should be reliably getting 2 sets of vendettas yeah.
bleak spoke
ty ❤
round tree
When is the optimal time to use vanish on opener using MA build
worldly iron
if you want consistency
I prefer to cast TB before vanish and hope for mutilate crits to fit 2 envenoms in the MA window
round tree
Thanks!
On 2 boss fights is it a dps gain to keep dots up on both bosses or just tunneling one target
willow chasm
both
sharp gazelle
Hey, I have a question - just started assassin and am really enjoying it, just wondering how you are all keeping track of the bleeds and who has them/who hasnt, are you using default interfaces, elvui, some weakauras etc
But don't they clutter up the screen If you're fighting against a huge pack of mobs? That's why I always have them disabled
worldly iron
nameplates makes everything easier to keep track of, including enemies during big pulls
yeah, I have them stack
but you can find stacking cluttering as well, depending on how you feel
but to me it feels really clear when I can see everything exactly
sharp gazelle
Ohhh okay, it's an addon called nameplates?
sharp gazelle
Okay then I'll try fiddling around with the elvui nameplates when I get home, thank you guys!
round tree
Is it optimal to refresh dots before using 2nd vendetta?
bronze kelp
i use plater nameplates
highly customizable, but also bit hard if you are new to this topic
cause it has a lot of settings u can adjust
but has one advantage: scripts via comunnity
you can for example add a different color for every mob class (e.g. casters, high HP mobs, must-interrupt mobs)
i got a color for hard low hp mobs, so that I'm not rupturing them
sharp gazelle
Nice, thanks! And last stupid question - do you switch between targets with tab and just rupture them etc and then tab back to the main target?
bronze kelp
also nameplate answer 😉
i try to rupture mid hp mobs for energy reg, and then switch to the most important target back
tabbing is an option, both as tab targeting is not 100% perfect you can end up with being stuck on tabbing
nameplates let you simple choose and if you got the adjusted to your needs they are the most important thing for you
night vale
yeah my reaping goes like this; G > G > G > Ruptre > Fok > Rupture > Fok > Rupture > Fok * infinity
bronze kelp
why fok after triple garrote ?
night vale
yeah mb rupture!
bronze kelp
^^
worldly iron
@round tree more or less. don't think I'm the best person to answer that, but you pretty much want as many envenoms as possible during TB in your vendetta
bronze kelp
yes you want that
sharp gazelle
Thank you @bronze kelp , @hollow wraith and @worldly iron
bronze kelp
no problem 😃
worldly iron
refreshing bleeds is ok during TB but you really don't want that most of the time, especially not in your vendetta TBs
bronze kelp
you need to plan your TB window a bit
worldly iron
and you don't want to delay TB enough to lose a cast during any fight
if avoidable, of course
bronze kelp
you want to refresh bleeds before, and got ideally have 4 CP before vendetta
worldly iron
yeah
bronze kelp
then start vendetta window with TB and after that spend and build with envenom and mutilate only
worldly iron
vendetta -> tb -> vanish -> envenom is something I would do
bronze kelp
in raid environment yes
vendetta -> vanish -> tb is also okay, cause tb does good dmg too
round tree
Thanks for the advice, it’s just that I kinda know that it is how it’s suppose to play but watching top rogue videos and streams they rarely go above 50 energy
worldly iron
yeah, it's totally fine to tb in the MA window, I posted the consistent way earlier
bronze kelp
yeah cause usually you never delay TB
worldly iron
I just like to go for those juicy double envenom crits
bronze kelp
the delay is worse cause you maybe lose a full tb duration or two over the whole encounter
thats why i like the m+ ttk build with high crit 😃
worldly iron
my biggest envenom crit in a raid encounter was 98k on an opener when I had 2x TTK
bad luck with azerite pieces so I went with SS and TTK for a long time 
not MA, though, just a regular crit
round tree
Have to say I’m impressed with the rogue discord, probably the best class one. Y’all are awesome
stuck saddle
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
past spruce
I put my priority at mastery>haste>crit i am normaly at 36 % mastery 17% haste 23%crit this because i am still a noob and i may be wrong but it makes sence since a lot of the fights have disconnects and so i spec in to master poisoner for more sustained dmg...
But like i said 3 months playing 2h a day at most equals to total casual noobie trash so wht do ik right?
worldly iron
always sim yourself, and you'd have to have a nuts amount of mastery in order for master poisoner to be good
elaborate planning is just generally better
past spruce
In a perfect cenario yea absolutly i cant really say nothing about high raiding m+ because i aint getting a chance to do any
Game aint noob friendly...or better the comunity
heavy skiff
I would go ep too
worldly iron
pretty much no one goes MP since it's straight up worse than EP
past spruce
Game is ez enough ppl dont wanna have noobs in the group anywas yea ep better if you can keep the buff up 100 % the time but i mostly pvp when i do group content and there is a diffrent ball game at least from my point of view
worldly iron
no you don't even need to keep it up 100%, that's impossible
MP is good for pvp as far as I'm aware
you just want to pool and use mutilate during the EP window
and envenom in TB window with EP if possible
tropic ocean
100% ep the dream
heavy skiff
Only way is aoe
worldly iron
m+ feels nice when you've got EP rolling all the time 
worldly iron
imagine the parse if every single popsicle would bleed all the time 
golden relic
https://gyazo.com/b2d4dca2a76267837f7120e9361442b0 , what the ppm on this
night vale
Doesn’t say on wowhead but apparently commenters say quite high
Let me see if anyone is using one on warcraftlogs
golden relic
Tried it over 2 min on 3 targets and the uptime was 58% to dead-eye spyglasses 38%
seems to be able to proc back to back
marble hemlock
if thats the equivalent to the razor leaf trinket only for alliance
the uptime can be anywhere from 70 to 20%
i looked up razorleaf procrate back when the boss first came around, and it seemed to have a decently high procrate, but there was still plenty of logs with very bad uptime on it
marble hemlock
ah okay
lament dove
razorleaf is a 16 sec proc
severe current
The thing is, yes, with good play EP will be a lot better, but there is no easy way to evaluate things like 'not pooling right' so i can relate to the MP decision
worldly iron
but MP is just bad
lament dove
don't forget that MP only gives dmg to deadly poison, while EP is for everything
worldly iron
^
night vale
75%ish uptime on EP is probably about right yeah?
marble hemlock
ye
worldly iron
pretty much
used our last grong kill as an example since it's pretty straight forward and I had 74%
severe current
Iirc sim told me i loose 1.5% if i'd go MP... maybe it's my gear, but loosing less than 1.5% (since EP not perfectly played) for ease of use i can see some people getting better results with MP
cobalt gyro
@golden relic get advanced tooltips, shows a lot of procrates right on your tooltips
worldly iron
I mean you don't need to play perfectly for EP to still be better
and all you really need to do is fit two mutilates in most of the EPs
at least with DD
if you lose 1.5% according to a sim, you'll probably lose a lot more in a real fight without the EP buffing all of your damage sources
golden relic
@cobalt gyro ty didnt kno about that , pretty nice
worldly iron
but don't quote me on that, I'm no wizard 
willow chasm
What's ep stand for?
worldly iron
elaborate planning
empty badge
So guys, I have a 406 ilvl and average about 27-30k dps in a m+. I am trying to find a way to push higher than a +17 but everytime I try an 18 we barely fail. I am wondering if I am fucking up somewhere maybe azerite. Does anyone average higher than this in high keys? Maybe I can look at their armory and see where I am going wrong.
severe current
That's what i'm interested in. I can't really believe, that these 1.5% (for me at least) hold that much against 'not caring about ep'
heavy skiff
@empty badge on high keys its not that much of overall dps
Its bout efficient dps
If u hit masive aoe and ur dh does the same.thing
U can kill everything but high hp adds still alive
Or bosses take way to long to die
empty badge
Yeah my problem is single target I am fairly confident.
Am I not meant for good single target? just like average single target?
Its not bad its just, average
cosmic prism
whats the fastest way to get good daggers? im having no luck
heavy skiff
M+
vestal wren
pvp maybe
bronze kelp
Farm m+
vague patrol
if good means 400 then definitely m+
cosmic prism
yeah im doing m+ now but the chance to get a dagger is pretty low
heavy skiff
Do higher m+ so u get more gear of it xD
bronze kelp
I got on one day on 5 runs 4 daggers, so it's just rng
heavy skiff
I have like 7 daggers
cosmic prism
what + do u start getting more loot? just got back into the game so only 385 ilvl
empty badge
@heavy skiff I am running 3 SS.
heavy skiff
I use a 410 and a 400 soket
empty badge
Maybe I just need higher ilvl.
heavy skiff
If u are 385 just try to run +10 back to back
empty badge
@cosmic prism If you cant, just run 7's, then 9's, then 10's
heavy skiff
@empty badge pulling reaping into vosses aldo helps 4 the timer
worldly iron
sure assassination wields daggers, but that doesn't make it spec talk
forest jetty
hey guys, I got a trinket question. I got a 400 plumage, a 410 spyglass with socket and a 400 harlans with socket. which combination eould you suggest for m+? simminggave me different combinations for every parameter I changed, but I got no clue what would overall pull ahead
empty badge
Plumage and harlans
forest jetty
even if I have plumage ready for every reaping wave?
marble hemlock
reaping damage is the least important damage in the run
empty badge
Plumage will give higher DPS on trash if youre looking at it that way haha
1 Active is better for controlled burst
marble hemlock
you shouldnt hold cooldowns just for reaping, unless thats something your group really struggles with (and i doubt any group does)
worldly iron
and sockets on dice+spyglass is juicy
empty badge
Holding plumage for reaping isnt a bad idea as long as you arent holding it for more than 30 seconds
heavy skiff
410 soket spyglass... Fuck u man lul
marble hemlock
youre not gonna pop vendetta on reaping, at which point you would desync your plumage+vendetta#
cobalt gyro
reaping damage makes you look good in the meters
marble hemlock
thats pretty much all it does, ye
cobalt gyro
But it's "fake" damage because it doesn't help you complete the key on it's own
empty badge
Lol
marble hemlock
if you wanna pad on reaping, go ahead, but its not the most efficient way to play a key
empty badge
Killing reaping faster helps you complete the key yes
cobalt gyro
Yes and no
If you're killing reaping on its own you're literally wasting time killing mobs that give 0 count
marble hemlock
the amount of time you gain by killing a wave of risen souls slightly faster vs the amount of time you gain by using your CDs on mobs that actually live more than 5seconds
worldly iron
reaping dies super quick even without coolies, it's pretty free
cobalt gyro
I've had the reaping still be alive after the trash pack we pulled with it is dead.
Depends om the wave
worldly iron
generally speaking, of course
marble hemlock
most reaping waves consist of a dozen or so risen souls, and a handful of tormented/lost souls. how quickly you finish up reaping isnt as much about how quickly you kill all the small shit (which is where most of your dps goes when you just blast AoE without any prio-damage) but about how quickly you kill the big ones
empty badge
We all pull 50-100k on reaping and it lives 10-20 seconds I think thats worth the CD's to keep things consistent
But I do agree pulling something with it normally is what we do
In which case you arent just using plumage on reaping
marble hemlock
ye, ideally you pull reaping into the next pack/boss at which point your CD usage is changed based on that
empty badge
Also ; Do you always try and keep your ven/plumage synced?
cobalt gyro
Yes
marble hemlock
in any case, if you have a 410+socket spyglass, use it. its the best m+ trinket
well, 2nd best. best one would be the agi-proc pvp trinket 😄
forest jetty
ok, ty guys. good to see that there was no "easy" answer 😃
winged remnant
so is it normal for my damage to fall off super hard after vendetta all the way til a new 1 to ramp it up again in some form
worldly iron
I feel like reaping waves are baby waves compared to some packs on like, certain fortified weeks
empty badge
There isnt anything easy about answering m+ questions ahha
marble hemlock
assa isnt as straight forward when it comes to m+, you always have options to focus on either singletarget, aoe, or prio. most setups that are being discussed focus on one or the other, and its hard to give any recommendations due to every group, comp, and dungeon requiring a slightly different focus
thats why i said earlier that plumage would give you more boss-damage, while spyglass would be better for trash. you yourself know best what your group needs, so you gotta decide what you want to focus on 😃
its a curse and a blessing, having this flexibility
but its why assa is much more fun than other specs, atleast in my opinion ^^
worldly iron
assassination
forest jetty
so if you say that reaping isnt that important, you play poison bomb this week over crimson tempest?
marble hemlock
i personally play a setup that heavily focuses on priority target/singletarget damage, so i use 3TTK traits, run TB and poisonbomb since i dont want to spend CP on CT instead of the buffed envenoms
if you want to go full AoE because your group is lacking AoE, or because youre doing something like a freehold or motherlode and pull pretty big, CT is the better choice for those kind of situations
winged remnant
which trait is ttk again? mutilate 1? vendetta 1? envenom 1?
marble hemlock
envenom
winged remnant
what lvl keys r u doing this week on tyrannical
cobalt gyro
I haven't been able to pull in a way a ttk build is worth yet
empty badge
Yeah, I dont have the traits yet but Ideally I would run 3 SS, 2 EB, and 1 TTK for generic keys
3 SS is jsut too gooood
and being a night elf it has a lot of upside
forest jetty
never tried ttk, is it worth to go 2 ss + 1ttk instead of 3 ss?
i could also drop 1 of my 2 EB for 1 ttk
marble hemlock
not really doing many keys recently, we usually just do a weekly 22 or 23 and call it a day, pushing on live is kinda boring rn
and most people are busy with MDI
i run 3ttk 2eb 1ss
winged remnant
on live i notice in ur highest keys u were doing 2 ss 2 ttk 2 eb
marble hemlock
focusing on prio, with the aoe potential thanks to 2eb, and not focusing too much on SS openers to allow the tank to chainpull as much as he pleases without me dropping a lot of dps
thats just r.io bugging out my set up
in the ML i ran 3ttk
not sure about the underrot
marble hemlock
could check in the vod, but im pretty sure i ran 1ss only cause i knew that UR/ML are both dungeons where you want to chainpull a lot
ye
3ttk 2eb 1ss
winged remnant
so is 1 ss for the combo points more than anything at that point?
empty badge
When is the next season?
winged remnant
also what trinkets are u going for in this build style? @marble hemlock
marble hemlock
pretty much, have the SS for a decent opener, and then just focus on the aoe vs prio options with 3ttk/2eb respectively
spyglass+dice
winged remnant
so ive played outlaw in m+ a decent amount. recerntly switched to trying assass in keys and shit (rogues basically just for keys) and
theres 1 thing im pretty concerned with
my damage falls off super fucking hard after vendetta is over on bosses, is that normal?
like...
massive differences
marble hemlock
and then we have downtimes where were sustaining like 13-15k dps outside of tb/exsang
winged remnant
it feels really low outside of the opener
as an overall
with opener included
yeah like..
marble hemlock
well, that heavily depends on what setup youre running
marble hemlock
you can do insane singletarget if youre running 3SS and exsang
marble hemlock
id drop the NP if possible
winged remnant
treacherous
marble hemlock
it scales well with haste, and we dont want haste for m+ 😄
winged remnant
1 treach
strange python
I am thinking of running 3xSS, 2xEB 1xBBi with Exsang as Nelf tonight
winged remnant
also, im running crimson tempest exsang
strange python
2xOP aswell
marble hemlock
ye, ive basically ran that build in s1
you can get a lot more singletarget out of it by running bomb and maybe even galecallers as a 2nd trinket
empty badge
Seli you would never recommend scented blood would you
queen pawn
guys if a question: If i garrote with SS 2 targets so garrote gets buffed, if i run out of subterfuge window and i apply my third garrote on a third target does the buffed garrotes gets unbuffed?
marble hemlock
or any other on-use trinket you can pop with your first big exsang
empty badge
Yes @queen pawn
marble hemlock
smuchz, i'd love to, but in its current state scent is just a worse version of EB
no
smuchz
uncut trout
what are the good m+ chests for single target assassin
marble hemlock
that bug was fixed months ago
uncut trout
im gunna roll all my residuum away
marble hemlock
used to be that way, but they fixed it quite some time ago. you can freely garrote after subterfuge runs out without losing any of the bonus damage
strange python
3xSS, 2xEB, 1xBBI, 2xOP. Nelf with Spyglass, Dice and Heavy crit. Feel that would be insane dmg both AoE and ST?
marble hemlock
ironmongrel, cepha chest is pretty good
winged remnant
so am i losing a ton of boss damage by running triple SS instead of just 1? cuz basicallly what im saying is my tyrannical boss damage feels really bad. the opener dps is cool but it settles very low...
uncut trout
i have the head and shoulders off the first bosses in bod
idk if there's any traits i need to have 1x of
im an outlawl player
marble hemlock
the good chest from raid would be mekkatorque
uncut trout
we're on him r/n
marble hemlock
from m+, cepha chest has ttk, dd and op, which sims slightly higher than the mekka one due to mekka not having OP
depends on what you would gain in return, rom
marble hemlock
well, its gonna give you more aoe, and slightly less singletarget
short pivot
Just hurts me to lose 700 straight agi
marble hemlock
agility isnt that important of a stat for aoe
marble hemlock
😄
winged remnant
seriously though, is triple SS bad for a pure ST tyrannical fight?
marble hemlock
a lot of our damage comes from sources that do not scale through agi, i.e. all the bonusdamage from traits for fok, the echo, or shrouded suffocation do not scale with agility
winged remnant
im new to assass my by tyrannical st damage feels like..ass.
overall.
by like end of a fight
marble hemlock
nah, ss is your best option for pure singletarget without compromising AoE too much
uncut trout
ok what are the good shoulders
marble hemlock
goraktuls
uncut trout
is pistoleer terrible
marble hemlock
for raid? ye
strange python
Is 3xSS 3xEB bad?
marble hemlock
braxoo, its just very heavy on aoe, but its still a good setup especially for pugs
worldly iron
DD is in m+
short pivot
Is that combo horrible? Can use crown but i lose 15 ilvl
strange python
Well I am not in a pug right now. And I am still struggling to find a combo that fits me and my team.
marble hemlock
3ss helps on both st and aoe, so thats always a good jack-of-all-trades option
it does require you to get regular restealths, which might limit the pulls your group can be doing a bit
but especially for nightelves, 3ss is very solid
and for anyone who mostly does pugs where tanks are pulling a bit more timid and timing the keys isnt as essential, 3SS is the best choice
its only at the higher levels where you might want to opt for a more specialized azerite/talent setup, and thats where ttk starts shining more and more
winged remnant
okay so i think what im by far most confused on right now with assass
is how do i do a 2nd opener mid fight basically?
like when vendetta and vanish are coming back up
marble hemlock
nelf/3ss/exsang?
forest jetty
but you would suggest 2 eb 2 ss 2 ttk over 3 ss 2 ttk 1 np?
marble hemlock
hold your vanish until your exsang is back up
then just do another double garrote vanish, refresh your rupture, and then pop the 2nd exsang
winged remnant
id have to hold my vendetta not my vanish though?
or
what is the proper way to handle the 2nd vendetta mid fight i guess?
marble hemlock
hard to say, i dont think tb is worth if youre just running 1ttk
well, depends on whether you get a 2nd vendetta or not 😄
winged remnant
my fights definitely are lasting longer than 2mins
marble hemlock
theres different ways to playing m+ bosses, depending on how long the boss will live
winged remnant
2nd vendetta no 3rd, but i mean i assume id play a 3rd the exact same as a 2nd
marble hemlock
anything that lasts less than 2m30s, use vanish at 45-60sec into the fight with your 2nd exsanguinate
winged remnant
why that period instead of using it during vendetta since only 1 use anyways?
marble hemlock
anything that lasts between 2m30s and ~3m, use vanish after your first garrotes run out, and then delay vendetta until vanish is back up
winged remnant
so delay vendettas til vanish is back up
marble hemlock
anything >3m, delay vanish for 2nd exsanguinate, delay vendetta until vanish is back up,, pop everything at once
winged remnant
how do i handle the vendetta in the situation of delaying vanish for it?
marble hemlock
what do you mean? you just delay it 😄
winged remnant
do i like, vanish garrote garrote rupture vendetta?
like whats the best priority with working with vendetta mid fight is where im confused i guess?
marble hemlock
make sure you have a rupture up that lasts 10sec or longer before you vanish
double garrote, vendetta exsanguinate
can use vendetta before vanish if you want, its not gonna make a difference (unless youre starved for energy, at which point use vendetta before vanish)
its not about vendetta, its about exsanguinate
vendetta just is a flat damage increase, thats pretty simple
for the exsanguinate however, you want the maximum duration of your bleeds
thats why you double garrote in vanish, to apply the first one, and then the second one for maximum pandemic, while also trying to get a 32second rupture out
worldly iron
is it not worth to vanish -> garrote -> envenom -> garrote -> mutilate -> rupture before the exsang? I wasn't following the conversations so maybe I'm completely off
I don't even play exsang so I kinda know jack diddly, only applying some things I've picked up from vidyas
marble hemlock
can do that aswell, it wont make any significant difference
worldly iron
at least I'm not off
marble hemlock
its basically 1more sec of EP
forest jetty
@marble hemlock you playing MP with 3 ttk?
marble hemlock
no, EP all the way
forest jetty
ok
forest jetty
ah my bad I meant MA
winged remnant
so question on something u said there earlier, are u saying the proper way to play a fight over 3 minutes is roughly:
opener; garrote garrote rupture vendetta mutilate rupture exsang-then w.e, then like 45seconds in, vanish garrote garrote rupture exsang, then hold vendetta for an entire 45seconds the second round to vanish vendetta and exsang all together?
marble hemlock
theres not a single situation where you dont want to run subter+vigor for m+ sadly
forest jetty
ok
marble hemlock
for the general openers, just check out the guide in the pins
winged remnant
also what is EP ? dont know most shit by acronyms yet :<
bronze kelp
EP = elaborated planing
winged remnant
if youre talking to me my question was about the whole thing not the opener
marble hemlock
well, the opener you mentioned isnt the best one, thats why i linked the guide 😉
winged remnant
wait
thats exactly what the guide says tho?
unless im stupid, let me recheck
i guess
forest jetty
you said that we don´t want haste, but sim says that my sec stats are crit>haste/mastery all of em almost equal
marble hemlock
G R G V M R E
marble hemlock
is the opener for exsang+ss
winged remnant
i put it backwards
marble hemlock
😄
winged remnant
my thing was about the stuff after that tho just wanted to add it in for clarity
worldly iron
Juventaz, in m+ haste isn't desirable
unless tyrannical, then you might want a tiny bit
forest jetty
I could have 19% or 11%, guess 11% will be enough then
marble hemlock
any fight where you dont get a 2nd vendetta, you hold vanish for 2nd exsang
any fight where you do get 2nd vendetta but not 5 exsanguinates, vanish after opener then hold vendetta for vanish CD again
any fight where you do get 2nd vendetta and 5 exsanguinates, delay vanish for 2nd exsanguinate, delay vendetta /exsanguinate for 2nd vanish
which roughly translates to: a sub 2m30s, sub 3m, >3m fight duration respectively
golden relic
What was the math on the x3EB HB , how much difference was the 3rd compared to 2, sorry to being totally off topic to your conversation lol
marble hemlock
no idea about HB, i never play it cause i think its awful and only good for padding :X
as far as haste is concerned, the dungeon-slice sim will still give you fairly high values for haste and versa, due to how the sim is set up (2min bossfight, then a handful of 2-3target fights weaved in with 5-6target fights for the remainder of the sim)
the boss-part of that pushes the haste value fairly high up
in general you try to itemize for aoe however, not singletarget, which is why you will get low haste-values when doing a 6-8target 40-60second patchwerk sim
the loss in singletarget damage by not having high haste, is made up for over the course of the dungeon by having higher aoe dps
forest jetty
ok
winged remnant
so to clarify something, with so much info some small parts get lost
marble hemlock
its the best way we have right now to emulate a pure aoe fight
well, its more accurate if you only care about aoe weights
strange python
Is 3xEB this week in higher keys is bad since you lose too much ST? Or okey since you kill mobs faster?
empty badge
Would you guys use 385 if it had better traits than you 400?
marble hemlock
its still far from perfect, since it still prioritizes using vendetta/tb/exsang on cooldown etc.
winged remnant
in option #2, would the 2nd vendetta vanish be like: vanish garrote rupture garrote vendetta mutilate rupture exsang? or...?
marble hemlock
you just prepare your 2nd burst by having a ~10-15sec rupture on the mob, and then just vanish, garrote, rupture, garrote, exsanguinate, with vendetta either before the vanish or before the exsanguinate
winged remnant
it doesnt matter if u use ur dots before vendetta or after basically right? no snapshotting then i take it?
marble hemlock
braxoo, if you need the aoe, go EB ye
no, vendetta just dynamically increases all damage by 30% while it is active
snapshotting is a relic of the past, and only very few abilities still do it
demolocks snapshot their tyrant, we snapshot exsanguinate, and feral still has snapshotting dots as well as far as im aware
the reason you want to set up your exsanguiante as flawlessly as possible, is that you do not refresh your exsanguinated bleeds until they ran out
winged remnant
so i know this is asking a weird question of you because i KNOW its varied, but in this week specifically, what type of trait setup do u think id be running in 18-19s or so? i said my current were 1 echoing triple SS 1 treacherous 1 nothing and u said to drop a nothing personal, my other option for the nothing personal is blightborne (the crit buff trait), is that alot better? thats just off top of my head havent been on in hours
marble hemlock
usually you just refresh whenever inside the pandemic window, but exsang dots you want to refresh the second they ran out, otherwise you lose some of the sped-up ticks
get blightborne
winged remnant
i think ive been refreshing in the 2-4second zone
marble hemlock
also, i hate you for having goraktuls
winged remnant
during exs
empty badge
Is PB or exstanguish better?
winged remnant
which piece is goraktuls xD my rogues an alt and i just started taking it a bit more serious and trying more than outlaw
empty badge
Ive always ran PB
marble hemlock
exsanguinated ruptures tick every ~0.8-1second, so by refreshing that one when it has 4sec left, youre losing out on 4 ticks
strange python
So Gorak is good for M+? SS BBI then gueess
marble hemlock
thats the shoulders with blightborne you mentioned
winged remnant
PB and exsan are on dif tiers?:
marble hemlock
blightborne is gigabis
winged remnant
blightborne is amazing? someone i spoke to said just use NP cuz its probly worse then my treacherous
empty badge
i was thinking poison blade lu,l
marble hemlock
tb if you run ttk and focus on prio damage, exsang if you run multiple ss and want more st
strange python
So the build I talked about before. 3xSS 1xBBI 2xEB should work Well? On ST I have 2xOP then aswell
marble hemlock
yes, blightborne is amazing for both raid and m+
winged remnant
whats BBl ? idk acronyms yet reee
marble hemlock
blightborne infusion
winged remnant
ohh
marble hemlock
on a sidenote, and dont take this personally, but since youve just started out as assa in m+, dont over-prepare
assa is fairly complex in keys, and i always advise people to just play it and get a feel for the spec before delving further into the gearing options and minor improvements that can be made
winged remnant
i mean i know what im doing in m+ just not assass, and i have people to push higher with all over my list so like, i kind of need to learn pretty major issues first like this
empty badge
Exstanguish is confusing me
winged remnant
like the overall i havent asked about much because it is so all over the place
marble hemlock
gameplay comes first, theorycrafting comes after
empty badge
I have always use TB because its more simple lol
marble hemlock
assa in keys is not easy, if you want to play it well
winged remnant
thats what the base of all my questions have been
marble hemlock
ye
well, the singletarget on bosses is the same as in raids
so for that, the guide should answer most questions
winged remnant
i dont raid on my rogue
but i mean
in all honesty
the guide felt very over simplified to me
winged remnant
i feel like theres too much it didnt answer that was fairly prevalent like, a 2nd set of cooldowns as we just went over
marble hemlock
keep dots up, use cooldowns on cd, stack up specific cooldowns, and how to open
well
winged remnant
or i was really tired and somehow both times ive looked at it im missing shit ?
marble hemlock
its not really something that needs to be explaiend in detail, since it already mentions that you want to pandemic your bleeds as much as possible
empty badge
Seli, would you take the 385 with SS/EB or the 400 with SS/SB?
winged remnant
i guess but a lot of the helpful info youve said in this very conversation feels very helpful and isnt mentioned in the guide in anyway
marble hemlock
well obviously me answering your questions directly is going to be more helpful than a guide thats written for everyone 😄
winged remnant
scent of blood = sb?
empty badge
yeah
winged remnant
ofcourse thats true but like some of this feels pretty overall encompasing towards many people and fairly important in a number of situations is i guess what i was poking at there
marble hemlock
hard to say, id probably play the 385 one
winged remnant
my understanding is dont
tbh
(@ valuing it too high)
@marble hemlock so, is ur 3x ttk, 1x ss, 2x, eb ur favorite overall set for high keys? are u still running that on a fortified week?
marble hemlock
well, agi isnt as important as secondaries, but then again azerite pieces have a metric shitton of primaries on them
i run that basically every key, ye
only deviation is for temple/kingsrest
where i run 2/2/2 instead
winged remnant
2x ss?
marble hemlock
2ss 2eb 2ttk
winged remnant
why do u deviate to that on those?
marble hemlock
kingrest has smaller pulls that are well suited for SS since most packs are 2-4mobs, temple has a 2boss-fight which is great for SS and similar "small" pulls
winged remnant
honestly, atleast off the top of my head, i dont think a single 1 of my pieces has ttk, maybe not really even the mutilate trait either? all my pieces had like NP a neutral and SS
marble hemlock
ttk starts shining when you have bigger pulls, since its really only worth picking up if you have a consistent CP-generation on trash, and that requires more than 3-4mobs at a time
winged remnant
wait temples 2boss fight with destroy u if u ss it though? am i missingg something here?
i mean were def doing big pulls, atleast this week. not sure what "big" is to you tho
marble hemlock
neither garrote nor rupture have an initial hit, so you can multidot without getting damaged by the lightning shield if you do it properly
only risk is getting meleed, but thats what evasion is for 😃
or just multidot while hes casting, since mobs dont melee during a cast
but again, thats fairly advanced stuff and shouldnt be a concern when youre still struggling with more pressing matters 😃
winged remnant
wait are u saying they can have the lightning shield on already, and u can just walk up and ggarrote and rupture?? lol? without getting struck back? wtf lol.
idle vigil
How do u stop the melle
marble hemlock
evasion, or go in as he casts
idle vigil
I mean your own melle
winged remnant
i mean id like to think i learn fast and most of my issues are knowledge based thats why im trying to figure out shit
marble hemlock
you can also position yourself in a way that you can still style the mob, but dont autoattack
idle vigil
Just trying to think what binds I have open now for a mouse over lol
winged remnant
style it? is this some slang ive never seen b4 xd?
marble hemlock
you can only autoattack in a 120° arc in front of you, while you can use abilities in a 180° arc in front of you, so if you shift the camera to have the mob within that 30° deadzone on your left or right side, you can use rupture/garrote on it without autoattacking
marble hemlock
not sure if "style" is still used these days, basically just means "using an ability"
winged remnant
i take it u cant rupture the 2nd ? not that u'd want to but now im curious more than anything else
marble hemlock
yes you can
but its not worth doing unless you can also apply a poison, rupture alone as a multidot ability isnt worth it
the value of multidotting comes from the extra energy, and that requires a poison to be on the mob
and theres no way to apply a poison without hitting the mob
marble hemlock
no
not on rupture. its worth for a SS+subterfuge garrote
and you can use cloak+evasion for your first vanish to apply dots to both without getting any retaliatory damage
after the first switch you can just multidot with mouseover/utilizing the angles, and throw a poisoned knife. since theres no group damage during the 2nd phase that one can just be healed up
then its back to p1, where you just make sure to refresh bleeds/poison before the switch happens, p2 again where you do the same, and in the 3rd p1 you have evasion/cloak back up
winged remnant
do u have to feint b4 the PK ever lol
marble hemlock
depending on how close the boss is to dying, dont use your 2nd vendetta tho, its better used on the rider that comes immediately after the boss. but we're delving into too much detail here i think 😄
nah, feint doesnt reduce the damage of the shield unless youre specced into elusiveness
forest jetty
are you using mouseover for every multidot scenario? trash etc?
marble hemlock
(which is a viable choice for temple/kr if you can handle not having cheat death)
winged remnant
does it not 1 shot u on higher keys? ive hit into the shield on like a 19 tyr and man did that shit truck
marble hemlock
lots of people are, i personally dont
nah
i mean, ive taken like 90% hp hits on a 22
but again, theres 0 damage going out in p2
so thats just healed up
forest jetty
I would be afraid to dot a target twice by moving the mouse a bit to far
marble hemlock
i prefer tabbing/clicking nameplates to swap targets
forest jetty
yeah m2
marble hemlock
although the recent nameplate/tab changes with 8.1.5 have mad that a pain in the ass....
winged remnant
ive never noticed cuz ive never been low during it really, does the dust that blows out do damage? if so couldnt that fuck u at 10%?
what do u mean? i dont really remember noticing a dif since 8.1.5, but if u mean all the weird elvui things i havent updated past that on purpose
marble hemlock
nah, its just a knockback
forest jetty
I use plater and customized it to show every nameplate in green which got my posin and my rupturwe
marble hemlock
not gonna delve into the nameplate-issues again
ive discussed it at length before :p
forest jetty
well, thank you for your effort mate, helped a lot
marble hemlock
happy to help ❤
winged remnant
the only real issue i have with assassin with my plates
marble hemlock
youre gonna play around nameplates a lot as assa, so having clean ones that only show whats necessary helps a lot
winged remnant
Is idk how to customize the debuffs/poisons style of options much.
like my max debuffs on main target frame is like 3
haventmessed with options like that
in literally like 7months
empty badge
Sel, in m+ what do would your ideal crit/haste/mastery be?
Vers im assuming would ideally be 0
marble hemlock
~35% crit, ~40% mastery, ~8% haste (cant really go lower due to neck/weapons)
forest jetty
@marble hemlock do you use quick navigation? or really NO haste at all? and go for deadly and masterfull?
marble hemlock
youre not gonna feel a difference by having 3 or 4% more haste
on ST
and you will feel missing 5% mastery or crit
bronze kelp
hm... ill try and test this. always went with about 5-8% more haste and therefore less mastery and a bit less crit
opaque relic
@Juventaz you basically don't need haste on trash mobs in m+ since all the energy you need is generated by rupture and Garrote energy regen. So only time you need haste is during boss fight.
And generally you spend like 8 mins fighting bosses and 22mins fighting mobs (on fortified week).
strange python
So as low Haste as possible then Deadly-Quick. I thought deadly-masterful was better. Hmm also the thing with haste %. I can have 6 % haste. Is that too low? :S
spark oyster
I was playing with 6% on tournament realm and I was blasting even on bosses
And I went deadly+masterful
strange python
Traits?
winged remnant
so
for stats
is it mast>crit>hast>vers or mast>crit>vers>haste?
is haste so useless u just go vers if u have to pick 1 of the not 2
wary ice
winged remnant
talking m+
not really simmable
especially the specific mechanic im referring to in realistic scenarios
bronze kelp
in most cases its crit > mastery> versa > haste
bronze kelp
crit -> good for EB and ttk
plain thistle
yeah
winged remnant
i thought it was crit>mast but then i assumed 35% cr 40%m and assumed for the second off top of head cuz not in game dont know the ratios on %s to amounts
plain thistle
and it makes you feel good, mastery is just more damage 
winged remnant
xd
also thoughts on treacherous for assassin in m+? dont have a lot of trait options yet
bronze kelp
not bad and not good 😉
winged remnant
i was told dunggeonslice is definitely bad for assass m_
ye sal said something along the lines of
it prioritizes cds and such wrongly and the boss in a short timer like thatweights it too far that way
i have eb but only 1
also i dont think i have a single ttk trait, or maybe even dd trait
my trait options were more for outlaw
no
xd
marble hemlock
opu helmet, conclave chest, rasta shoulders are all good for m+
marble hemlock
unluck
winged remnant
if it was my main id prob just go outlaw for my team since mid term id probably perform better
but my main is a mage so eh?
suddenly the discord shudders and removes me from their memory
silence ensues
cosmic prism
how good is harlans loaded dice?
empty badge
Extremely
wary ice
p
heavy skiff
Is 23% uptime 4 bbi normal?
empty badge
That seems pretty good.
spice surge
23% is exactly the average expected result
Without any haste, so a few % higher (like ~26) should be the "real" average
heavy skiff
Ok so i have normal luck xD
cosmic pier
FeelsOkMan
idle vigil
What’s the order for best 3rd ring Azerite for m+
sturdy python
Shield then speed normally
sturdy python
Not sure, maybe check herodamage. Those are the three I see most
Gut ripper too I suppose
visual quartz
I have a Heed my call, after a night of raiding its only done like 50-100k dmg in 3 hours, Ive changed it to anything else as it seems useless O.o
1trait
spice surge
Heed is not very good for m+
Since the aoe is exceptionally small and will a lot of the time only hit your main target
The stat traits (such as overwhelming power or unstable flames) are generally much better
primal gazelle
What bout heed vs azerites globes
marble hemlock
heed is better for singletarget than aoe, surprisingly 😄
theyre both garbage for aoe
cosmic pier
yes
idle vigil
Still trying to figure out al the shit you can evasion
Seems like half the bladestorms you can
Half you can’t
tall pond
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
@idle vigil Make sure the bladestorm is full frontal, evasion only works in a frontal cone.
marble hemlock
keep in mind that when you are charged, the damage comes at the end of the charge
so if you move towards the original charge-location, youll get hit in the back and still die
since dodge only works from the front 😉
everyone that helps soak gets hit as the mob travels through you, but the original target gets hit as the boss finishes the charge
empty badge
So if you evasion, and dont move you wont get hit by barrel through?
BEcause that is fucking OP.
marble hemlock
yes
marble hemlock
thats how DH solo-soaks it, since bladedance gives them 100% dodge
you generally want to hold evasion for the butcher tho
empty badge
Why is that
marble hemlock
if youre the target of the severing axe DoT
you can dodge that one if you use evasion before she finishes the cast
healing the charge usually isnt an issue
the dot on the other hand hurts like hell
empty badge
Thats even mroe op lol
marble hemlock
its a 1.5sec cast, at the beginning of the cast she turns towards the player she casts it on, and during the last 0.5sec of the cast she also targets the player directly
empty badge
So it works like the boss in TD
marble hemlock
so you can either try to evasion reactively during those last 0.5secs, which is kinda hard to do
or just position yourself in a way where its obvious that she turns towards you if youre actually her target
you can also stand in the whirling axes as long as you have evasion up, so thats another benefit 😄
so basically evade one of the severing axes, and evasion lasts long enough to just stay in melee for the next cast of whirling axes as well
empty badge
Cant you cloak as well?
vast forum
no, it's not magic
full pagoda
Hey guys, can somebody help me decide which trinkets are bis to use for M+ this week? I have 400 dice with socket, 410 socket dead-eye spyglass, using them atm, but I also got 410 socket boon which always simms better but as you know it's very dependant, also 415 azerokk's resonating heart which is more or less always behind
I can't really sim it tbh
full pagoda
Ya, sadly, it is
Ok, thanks, just felt needing a confirmation xD
@golden relic Do you think azerokk's heart can replace dice (I doubt) or deadeye for Mythic progress Jaina as there's a lot of movement and boon is absolutely not ok for there?
golden relic
Uh idk, maybe .. id aim to get a plumage if i was you, i Think @marble hemlock used galrcallers on jaina (not sure?) . Maybe he can give some insight on that matter
ripe nimbus
There is plenty of time to use galecallers in jaina
Ur cooldowns always come up when the group isnt moving anyway
golden relic
Guess planning ahead with it is easy after a pull or two and u kno when and where shit happens. I used galecallers on like everything up to rastakhan
But i didnt like it at all
lost sentinel
I tried plummage for a bit, went back to gcb, it's not that difficult to utilize imo
golden relic
That trinket has been the fattest bait, farmed it and when i got it i wanted to trash it
full pagoda
lol
I was using 380 boon for like forever, been the most unlucky on trinkets this expansion and got dice, dead eye and azerokk 415 for literally 2 weeks.
I couldn't even appreciate it
So more or less I have gotten used to boon but still felt like asking for Jaina. Well, I guess i'll get used to it on her. I used it for Blockade and it was amazing. Thanks for all the help guys!
thick galleon
is elaborate planning better then master poisoner currently?
spice surge
yes
thick galleon
even for pvp?
spice surge
Depends, generally mp is good as the increased slow/healing reduction is useful in pvp
But for pure dmg ep is better. Deadly poison is such a minor part of our damage
Whereas EP applies to all damage
full pagoda
it's better to sim sub or MA but generally sub is better with SS trait, while MA is better with DD trait. It's general said tho.
What traits are you using?
tired drift
is there a mimimum on how many % haste you should have
full pagoda
@tired drift Raids or M+?
tired drift
Raids
full pagoda
Not sure about raids, it's really best to sim yourself. Some items can literally switch everything for you. That happened with me with not long ago.
@ionic hill Yeah, I needed time to get used to both rotations but still SS is always bis for M+. DD is not enough good as you switch too many targets.
mental fiber
@tired drift short answer is no
outer kernel
hey got a question trolls are still the best race for assa rogue right?
hollow stone
If youre going by bloodmallet sims, maghar is best then troll
But its so negligible that it really doesnt matter
I dont like troll personally because troll cd doesnt line w vend every time
outer kernel
okay thank u 😃
hollow stone
Horde??
empty badge
You just shouldnt be horde
hollow stone
The diff between top horde and bottom horde is about 150dps. Which is nothing
Shouldnt be horde. Thats a good joke. Thanks for making me laugh this fine friday
sonic bridge
why be horde when you can be a human female rogue 
hollow stone
(Also, apparently gnome sims higher for st than NE) 😎
Yup. If i was alli, human female for sure. No question
bleak spoke
If I were alliance I’d shadowmeld all the things
ripe nimbus
If i was alliance id uninstall the game
prisma wind
hasty brook
Does higher ilevel weapon still go on main hand?
hasty brook
I've been playing gimped this whole time. Thanks
civic palm
_>
harsh sphinx
ouch
valid kayak
just got a gcb and wondering when is best to pop it during my opener?
round harbor
anyone around to look at a log for me?
vital haven
hmm yes
round harbor
idk, felt like i played the fight perfect and still only a ~80
round harbor
only 7 in raid gear
civic palm
Missing like 4 sockets LAMER.
civic palm
Normal killtime?
round harbor
that was our first kill
of stormwall
so i tihnk the only thing i shouldve done is held vendetta for lust. but i didnt think we were gonna kill it sub 6 minutes
round harbor
yeah it was like super fast kil
rustic ether
do you guys ever end up using cheap shot
vital haven
and the lust timer is awkard as well
rustic ether
in m_
vital haven
you can hold on hold on vendetta for lust but then you dont get anoither one
civic palm
Your Rupture uptime is @ 90% and I don't think that the transition accounts for that much time.
round harbor
yeah
vital haven
@rustic ether you mean in raid?
i didnt get a good parse either
75 on our first kill
but i know what i need to do
let me watch the replay
round harbor
yeha i tihnk the rupture never dropped
off luminara and the adds
atleast i dont see it
civic palm
Does look like the higher logs have ~4% higher Rupture uptime.
Garrote being the same.
round harbor
think its because our other side of boat took longer
so i had to afk for a few seconds in the first dip and the boat to boss on the second
or maybe it dropped during tempting sirne
not sure
round harbor
ight
then maybe u think other people are muti dotting the adds more?
like i treied not to go too far out of my way to get off boss
when we have like god comp for ranged dps
vital haven
ya im watching the replay right now
civic palm
Lemme check the add phase.
round harbor
still was 4th place on siren tho
vital haven
you gotta switch to the big adds more
civic palm
Rupture damage
round harbor
so they must be running back and doouble dotting the storms
vital haven
phase is all about multidotting shit
when they close enough to step
step garrote rupture go back to the boss
vital haven
thank laminaria hitbox is huge lmao
civic palm
But just enough to get Rupture and Garrote
Step, Garrote, generate, Rupture, back to boss.
vital haven
i lowkey think that SS is pretyt good in that fight
round harbor
yeah i went 3dd3np just for the giga burst
vital haven
especially at the end when if you get a vanish wiuth the 2 adds and luminaria
civic palm
vital haven
i mean the parse is really good a prog parse
round harbor
HMM OK
so it looks like they are doing more boss dps cause the multi dotting aswell
even in last phase
civic palm
Yeah, energy gen is important.
vital haven
im sure most RL want the melee to just stick on the boss on the first kill and dont move
round harbor
but our killtime is faster so as as group we did more efficiently on adds vs boss
yeah
civic palm
So they're on big adds for garrote and rupture, Lam. the rest of the time.
round harbor
yup
round harbor
yeah i see that noe
they barely touched them
unless they were like already in tab target range it seems
civic palm
Rupturing them is fine.
The Temptresses.
Garrote is expensive and has a CD.
and you can just mouseover them.
Some MUTs on them as well.
round harbor
their adds also lived alot more
civic palm
I imagine when they cannot generate on Lam.
round harbor
we only did 9m to the energized storm, they did 19m
so we mustve skipped a few that they had to deal with
since they lusted on pull
civic palm
Yeah BL is gonna move that around.
round harbor
ok so just gotta lust on pull then have more storms to pad on
then i get good parse
after jaina im ready for it
we locking out until then though
civic palm
Could look at some other parses, but it seems like that atm.
round harbor
his EP uptime was a little higher aswell, but thats probly form the same thing.... more energy from the adds
civic palm
Yarrr
vital haven
btw your guys kill was the 3rd fastest kill
round harbor
ya
for a first kill
our mekka was i think rank 10 or soemthing
this guild is so weird, like we take long to kill bosses but when the one pull comes together its a gigga pull
vital haven
same thing happened with us
round harbor
just need everyone to focus for like 6 minutes straight sometimes
vital haven
i think we got a super quick stormwall kill as well
hollow cloak
does raidbots atm buggin?
Top Gear requires at least two combinations. Make sure to select some additional items, enhancements, or talents
iget that if i have 24 combi
hollow cloak
yes
vital haven
ok nvm its actually happening to me too
lmao what is this
they have a discord @hollow cloak
hollow cloak
what was called
vital haven
round harbor
ight well thanks for the help figuring that stuff out
hollow cloak
@vital haven okay there is bug atm, fixing asap
open raptor
What traits should i aim for in raids?
regal carbon
Does evasion work on Rezan's devour
icy girder
sterile ocean
Whats the best race for rogue right now Mag'har orc or reg orc?
civic palm
Night Elf :3
civic palm
Probably Troll or Maghar then.
sterile ocean
ah k
civic palm
Everyone is within 1% so it's w/e
sterile ocean
was thinking cause Mag'har's is rng on the stat and Reg orc its straight up damage
civic palm
unless it's dungeons, then NE are broken
sterile ocean
true
civic palm
Whatever you think looks the best, really, things are pretty normalized atm.
sterile ocean
yeah true
unkempt belfry
go home, @sterile ocean you're drunk, lol. I thought you gave up on Rogue anyway.
unkempt belfry
How could you betray the Blood Elf master race by even considering being an orc? 😮
sterile ocean
cause they look badass Lol
unkempt belfry
do they though?
civic palm
More badass than a girl or maybe/probably a girl.
supple hearth
If Im going to buy a random relinquished azerite piece. Are my odds better going helm, shoulder, or chest
civic palm
Same odds are getting something you want unless you are specific on how many pieces you COULD get with each slot that interest you >_ >
rustic ether
@supple hearth depends what youre aiming for
if youre going for a M+ 3SS 3EB build, then shoulders have two possible EB SS
after shoulder i would prolly roll for helms as you can get an EB SS chest piece form BOD
strange python
anyone have an issue not being able to choose MA as a talent? keep trying to sim it but it's disabling it for some reason
icy ember
no
rustic ether
nah
rustic ether
do you mean that it wont let you choose both MA and sub to sim?
because sme of the sims on raidbots doesnt let you sim talent options in one talent box
strange python
yeah; which is weird cuz i use to do that all the time
unless they just changed it
i.e; comparing both talents
civic palm
Yeah sure.
strange python
that's not really like
an encouraging response :x
I don't know if anyone actually uses hidden blades ever
civic palm
:3 HD is fine, SIM it.
civic palm
HB sorry typing over something
crisp kayak
Just go outlaw for dungeons tbh 🙄
lost horizon
strange python
Sin is also really good, just Outlaw seems "easier" to gear/play.
tropic ocean
i guess outlaw is as hard/easy to gear as sin 😄
tropic ocean
by your thinking or by any accessible data?
strange python
by the thinking of anyone with a brain
strange python
every trait good on mt is good on st as outlaw
do you stack triple dose and eb on mekka too?
worldly iron
it's not qq 
how did you interpret it that way
strange python
what fights are pure st and gain no benefit from wits
there's like 2 of 9
as well as the fact that ss bonus damage is up 100%
the 2 most important bosses in the raid benefit a lot from wits
which bosses benefit heavily from eb again?
in what mt situation is np good?
tropic ocean
the most important?
worldly iron
you need like, one wits and you're basically set as outlaw. sin needs to stack EB and get both SS and TTK in many scenarios
worldly iron
that's why assassination is harder to gear
you switch around traits a lot as assassination, depending on keys and weeks
you don't do that with outlaw
strange python
don't even switch talents as outlaw
only real exception is cheat death and the feint talent
tropic ocean
@worldly iron then you need infact to take into consideration what sources you get the bis pieces from
you want deadshots and ace up your sleeves as outlaw + 1 wits
tropic ocean
"they're very common traits" - checks raid loot table, no
strange python
I run 2x ds 1x ace 2x tc 1x wits
2 of my pieces are from raid
the one that isn't is ace/wits
bis outlaw are from m+ just like sin
strange python
ya but do you stack 3 eb