dk/warrior tank
#assassination
rigid mango
And then elly/fmage or dh?
marble hemlock
depends on whos available, but i havent been pushing in a month
rigid mango
Ah rip
marble hemlock
weve mostly focused on MDI, so thats a pepeHands
vast forum
Joshdruid 
marble hemlock
but MDI comp was warr/bdk, assa, outlaw, ww, rdruid/rsham
2rogue+ww is the strongest dps comp rn imo
vast forum
Rsham?
heavy trail
marble hemlock
rsham dps is insane on bosses
rigid mango
Not uhdk?
marble hemlock
outlaw does the same that UH does
rigid mango
What's the cd?
marble hemlock
build 30festermight stacks, pop CDs, blast
rigid mango
Ah ok
marble hemlock
unholy frenzy is like 1m15s?
rigid mango
Makes sense, I normally run w dh + smth else
Should rly try playing double rogue more often
marble hemlock
unholy is strong when you run 2 of them and then just do gigapulls whenever they have CDs
but its overrated
2rogue is the way to go rn imo
rigid mango
Yeah fair enough
rigid mango
Idk, I'm playing outlaw atm since I'm lazy
marble hemlock
where you can run some silly traits
rigid mango
But I just wanna play the ttk version of assa and try that out
marble hemlock
ye, ttk is fun
its not the highest overall in the world
but you can still pop off
motherlode you can usually hit ~40k overall
same in freehold
and its more targeted and efficient dps than outlaw
atomic saddle
ttk build is basically the bfa version of sub in legion right? Like converting on priority adds
rigid mango
Idk az is so easy for outlaw
Sin has so much more specific traits meanwhile outlaw gets one wits and most work
marble hemlock
ye wckdx
its similar in playstyle for sure
with the choice to, at any point, swap between aoe or prio
strange python
Hmm. I feel so conflicted now ;)
I have been so lucky with azerite I have way too much to pick from....
marble hemlock
well, wits is the only reason outlaw is on the map right now
atomic saddle
I like that... its so less cheesy and so much benefit for the grp
marble hemlock
assa has the flexibility to choose and tailor traits/talents to the dungeon/comp
outlaw doesnt
strange python
True. But for me, even tho it is a luxury to be able to pick. I never feel I dont know what to pick
Feels like I am loosing out
marble hemlock
thats not a bad thing, just means that once you have more azerite to choose from, that flexibility is very helpful
strange python
which is also why the azerite system sucks
Well I do have like all the pieces you want to have as Assa. I just don't know how to combine it
As I said. Lucky
rigid mango
Are any raid pieces rly good?
marble hemlock
well, i see it akin to the legendary system
strange python
which also sucked ;p
marble hemlock
just swap depending on what you need
well, legendaries were fine once you had all of them
strange python
acquisition is the key issue to both systems
marble hemlock
until you did, it was bad though, i agree
shouldve just combined azerite system with the old glyph system, where acquiring azerite unlocks the traits as glyphs that you can swap out whenever you want
strange python
HARD agree
empty badge
So guys, if I was to trait stack 2 traits this week for m+ what would you recomments? I was thinking 3 double dose and 3 SS
marble hemlock
you dont want DD for m+
empty badge
Even on tyra?
marble hemlock
yes
strange python
2 ttk 2 eb 2 ss
atomic saddle
If you play higher keys go 3xSS and some ttk or EB. If your grp likes to pull trashgrps with reaping go 3xEB. On tyrannical weeks use 3xSS and some NP, DD or ttk. Thats what I'd, correct me if im wrong.
marble hemlock
any combination of eb/ttk/ss or getting a blightborne/tradewinds works
dd/np are bad m+ traits
since the benefit they provide are incredibly limited
empty badge
I am doing anything from 16's to 19's usually, I just started playing rogue on monday though so I am still learning traights
marble hemlock
you dont use mutilate at all on aoe, so you only get use out of DD on bosses, thats simply not worth
empty badge
tradewinds? really? I always thought that was subpar
marble hemlock
its not ideal, but its not bad either
strange python
blightborne is broken
marble hemlock
but yeah, any combination of ttk/eb/ss is usually being played right now
empty badge
And yeah I thought 3 SS was kind of necessary
strange python
So I should drop my phantom with EB TTK OP for Gorak?
marble hemlock
run blightborne if you have the shoulders
strange python
Hmm
marble hemlock
you want atleast 1ss, and 1eb
and then you just look at what you need for the key/comp specifically
marble hemlock
need more aoe? get more EB
need more st/cleave on 3-5targets? get more SS
need more st/priority damage? get more TTK
as a nelf id suggest 3ss at almost all times, ye
so i.e. 3ss, 1eb, 2ttk works well
empty badge
isnt NP good?
marble hemlock
no
same issue as DD
its only singletarget, and you spend most of your time on aoe
empty badge
Ah ok
rigid mango
Worth taking np during tyr tos?
marble hemlock
i mean
empty badge
That was my reasoning
marble hemlock
if you struggle with bosses, then do what you can to improve ST
rigid mango
Since it's more or less down to galv
empty badge
I mean boss fights can take up to 4 min
rigid mango
Feels like, atleast
marble hemlock
but unless you run a set that has some decent haste, NP isnt worth just for some additional DPS on bosses
atomic saddle
btw from how many targets do you use FoK with 1, 2 and 3 EB traits?
marble hemlock
youre better off with 3SS on 1st boss since its a cleave fight, 2nd boss is free anyway, and galvazzt is, well, an issue if the healer cant keep up
empty badge
I use FoK starting at 2 targets
rigid mango
If u have eb ye
marble hemlock
but getting ~150dps on galvazzt isnt gonna make or break the fight, thats the way i see it
strange python
Hmm I guess I'll have to go check after work today what all the different build do. This week tho. Teeming Tyranical I feel it hard to pick what to go
rigid mango
Any raid pieces that are good for m+
marble hemlock
mutilate once, if its 3cp mut follow with a fok
empty badge
At what % haste should I start going for crit? 16?
spark oyster
opulence head, conclave chest, rasta shoulders @rigid mango
marble hemlock
for m+? you dont run haste at all
rigid mango
Cool
empty badge
Like 0% hate pref?
strange python
I have.
Flashpowder
Opulence
Gorak
Phantom
Conclave
Ceph
marble hemlock
but haste is lowest prio for m+, since it barely does anything for aoe
strange python
All except conclave 415
strange python
So ye... way to many comboa
marble hemlock
opu helmet, goraktuls, ceph chest
ss+ttk in helmet, ss+blightborne in shoulders, eb+ttk in chest
strange python
I am nelf aswell
empty badge
blightborne is really that good?
marble hemlock
yes
strange python
Only 1 EB tho with Teeming? I guess I'll do the ST
marble hemlock
1EB is enough
empty badge
What is EB
marble hemlock
echoing blades
empty badge
ah ok ok
marble hemlock
i mean, i dont know what comp youre running
you can get EB on the helmet if youre struggling with aoe
strange python
I guess I have too much crit for that build tho. 1900
empty badge
There is never too much crit in m+
marble hemlock
but usually theres 2 other dps around that can do AoE as well, that dont have the flexibility to do prio like we do
strange python
Mage DH
empty badge
I was running outlaw rogue/myself ( sin rogue) and DH last night
marble hemlock
ye, youre gonna be alright
empty badge
Super OP
strange python
MAGE DH pwar and rdruid
idle vigil
If ur nelf and running 3x as as suggested
Should I be building more mastery into my build?
marble hemlock
not necessarily
empty badge
I like 30-40% mastery
marble hemlock
i run ~35-37% crit and ~40% mastery
ive been running a very ST heavy build on MDI servers as nelf
idle vigil
How much is 40% from rating?
marble hemlock
which was very nice, and incredibly strong ST
idle vigil
Like the rating #
idle vigil
Welp I’ve got a 425 gale caller on live haha
marble hemlock
nelf works very well with galecallers since you can get another fully empowered garrote+exsanguinate after 1min with 2nd pot thanks to meld
spark oyster
well it's not empowered by subt is it
idle vigil
?
marble hemlock
sure is
idle vigil
Yes it is
It’s empowered without subt with just meld too
When you can’t even stealth like on boss fights
strange python
You said Opu head, Gorak, Ceph tho. I am nelf. Should I not go Opu, Gorak, Conclave then?
marble hemlock
you just dont get a full restealth with meld during bossfights
conclave has ss+eb?
strange python
Yes
spark oyster
idk I saw a bunch of people saying that meld garrotes are only empowered by ss not subt
that was a while ago
during boss fights that is
marble hemlock
mh ye, i recall something like that as well
in any case
just meld after vendetta then, and vanish for the 2nd GC exsang
was still some stupid singletarget
popped ~28-30k on 1st boss in KR with lust
basically doing restoshaman dps
strange python
28k-30k what level?
marble hemlock
18
spark oyster
18 on tournament realm
strange python
Oh. Did see that. Sorry
idle vigil
Can rsham really pump out that much boss damage
marble hemlock
strange python
Is it worth simming Patchwork with M+ gear to see what is best for this week with Tyranical?
I'll have to try build on some of our 20s and 19s and see how it feels. I am scared to lose sop kuch AoE for teeming speccing into ST or the other way around. Loosing ST chasing AoE
merry zinc
What would you guys prefere this week for 16+ M+? I can choose between 2eb 3ss 1tc with a 405 chest or 2eb 2ss 1tc 1tkk with 415 chest. I think 2eb 2ss 1tc 1ttk should be better but i didnt play without 3ss for a long time
And how do you value tc in M+? Thinking about rolling for a new azerite head next
lone junco
agi doesnt buff EB procs. it does buff bleeds.
I dont like dying. so personally I put it below scent. which is below EB/SS/TTK
BBI crit and the orange 2ndary crit are also very nice. if that helps choose.
grizzled jay
Just got flash powderhood and now I can play 3TTK 2EB 1SS💪 👌 🤘
merry zinc
i could swap the ss/tc head for ttk/swirling sands as well. but other than that i only have 405 heads and i'm not sure if that is worth swapping
prisma monolithBOT
Affixes: Tyrannical - Teeming - Volcanic - Reaping
merry zinc
mhh i guess i'll try with 2eb 2ss 1ttk 1tc
dungeonslice is the most accurate sim for m+ yes?
lone junco
it doesnt include reaping waves.
it is currently the simplest way to do M+ sims.
can do it a few ways.
follow general wisdoms. EB SS TTK.
latent gazelle
I’ve been rolling with 1eb/2ss/1bbi/1ttk/1tc. Single target is pretty good and low target trash mobs isn’t to bad but reaping is pretty rough. I know it’s a jumble of traits but it’s my raiding azerite with traits changed
lone junco
if you must sim. could try 10t40 to pick cleave traits, then feed that solution +/- into the slice to get rings.
1eb is very smol.
most do 2 or 3.
merry zinc
the thing is obviously my 3ss will always sim higher in dungeonslice but i'm not sure on how much dps i can value ttk with doing prio dps
lone junco
3ss requries stealth.
merry zinc
but i'd think 2nd one is the better set with less overall dps
lone junco
if you are not getting restealth every pull, you are wasting 2 slots.
merry zinc
hmm right thats true
lone junco
that 2nd isnt horrible
2ss 2eb 1ttk 1tc
gl getting a EB hat and youll be golden.
eb ttk. eb ss.
merry zinc
yeah a new head would be great.. need to have luck though as i dont raid
lone junco
the TTK theory is pretty simple. when you pull big, you can fok env into the prio mob. and pump.
SS requires restealth. or burning vanish for dps.
when they drag mobs. or reaping adds during the pull. SS is garbo
lament dove
got eb+ttk helm last week from residuum, I must say even 1 ttk seems awesome
lone junco
when you have the big crit and can fok TB env fok env fok env . you DUMP dps into something ST.
mid trash pull.
and TB is quick. you use it lots.
and last thing about ss vs ttk.
if you have 3 ss. and open g g g . the REST OF THE PACK still lives. meaning you may be burning 3. or 6. or 1 specific mob, but heavy pressure on 3 doesnt really speed up the pack timer.
slice sims are weird for sure. so look to the people doing big keys. they have scripted out some good meta.
except that HB memer. 👋
lone junco
I dabble in outlaw cause my azerite kit is way better, but my MH is 🥕
maybe ill get sebek luck and get 420 mh from a box.
lost sentinel
I'd be happy with a 410 weapon... still haven't gotten one...
will be up to mythic opulence soon at least
night vale
I got a 420 dagger from opulence last week! So good luck 😃
cobalt pelican
it's nice that the majority of my assasination raid gear has reasonable outlaw m+ traits, i ended up scrapping all my spare stuff (including eb pieces) for residuum rolls for progress
that proved to be.. not the smartest choice
lone junco
I dont scrap. total hoarder.
cobalt pelican
i'd have been better off hoarding to be honest but eh, hindsight 20/20 etc
lone junco
I always felt that way about azerite. It isnt easy to farm, so I keep anything in the proper ilvl range.
distant lava
same
cobalt pelican
i just rely on the item restorator a little too much but it means i have till the 5th of april with basically just my jaina set and my pvp set and nothing else
lost sentinel
I keep most things, scrap when I am close enough to actually buy a piece
hoary apex
For M+ should I go 1ss 3eb or 3ss 1eb? Other traits are always 1 TC and 1 NP
robust cloak
bleak spoke
Haste is kinda shit for assa in m+
I mean you don’t lose much st off low haste
It’s not ideal on pure st but the moment you add a second target mastery surges ahead
cinder sparrow
hey guys this week my group dsnt need more aoe so i came to sin but long time i ddnt played the spec in mm+... Its Exsang or TB mandatory ? i running with 2x EB 2x TTK and 2x SS its good ?
cinder sparrow
ok ty @hollow wraith what the ideal azerite setup ?
cinder sparrow
k i see. Im just wondering for trinket. loaded dice ok but in second i can plumage 410 or favor 400 i don,t know
cinder sparrow
favor i mean, SOTS trinket haste
wide bolt
Galecaller's Boon?
empty badge
I have dice, spyglass, boon, and plumage
cinder sparrow
yes sorry$
empty badge
for some reason dice and plumage sim highest
cinder sparrow
i have spyglass 405 to
idle vigil
Use spyglass and dice
cinder sparrow
spyglazss 405 better thazn plumage 410 socket ?
empty badge
hell no
idle vigil
Crit>all
empty badge
A socket = +10-15 ilvls
It has a socket though
There is no way that spyglass is better
bleak spoke
That’s not very high
ripe nimbus
There is actual managment involved in spyglass u cant just mong that trinket
bleak spoke
Yeh that
ripe nimbus
U have to attack the target it procs on
bleak spoke
Fok counts though doesn’t it
Or am I actually dumb
All @ripe nimbus is the lord of spam mail change my mind
Also*
ripe nimbus
Did u enjoy ur 9001 gold
bleak spoke
I did I love you
ripe nimbus
Lol
cinder sparrow
oki ty
pine ore
is blightborne infusion that good for st considering crit is kinda worst stat?
wide bolt
Crit is one of our strongest stats though?
For ST it gets outclassed by haste but not by much
heavy skiff
Bbi is op
I love it
Got it from vendor yesterday
And tested it in raid
It just feels so good when it procs and lines upnwithbur tb
idle vigil
Sorry I don’t have spyglass what do u mean you have to attack target it procs on
You only get bonus crit to that target?
empty badge
is scent of blood still good?
Like scent of blood vs seductive power for keystones, what would you pick?
You cant sim for m+ lol
sturdy python
You can with combinations of dungeonslice and multi target patchwerk, would just need to use some logic since there’s so many factors. I’m pretty sure seductive power is pretty bad for assassin though
empty badge
Thats what I figured but I also thought scent of blood was
marble hemlock
scent is okay-ish, its just that for what it does, EB does the same only better
strange python
SoB is fine if you dont have any better trait for that slot
marble hemlock
only good on aoe, better the more mobs there are
outer ruin
Sorry that I keep asking the same question, and maybe I should ask it in r/competitivewow, but if my raid doesn't have a Frost mage, is MP on a sin rogue the next best option for add-control? or nearly the next best option?
sturdy python
Crippling poison is a strong slow. I’m not sure where in raid that’s a noticeable benefit though
Conclave maybe? Opulence.
outer ruin
Stormwall sorry. I should've said that
hollow stone
If you have a dk tank, the talent that makes dnd slow is a good alternative too
strange python
does it matter which "hand" deadly or quick nav is on?
hollow gyro
nope
strange python
thanks
steep bluff
So I’m wanting to mainly focus on boss damage and sustain dps. Should I go 3 DD and 3 NP and run master Assassin? It’s very vague what the optimal build is atm
lone junco
For raid st. 3dd 3np ma tb is very good.
Might swap one of the np for an Bbi. Depending on what you have available.
But from there you'll have to sim.
lost horizon
TC is also fine
Ttk is alright as well
For pure ST though it's easy, sim yourself
And keep in mind TC default is 100% uptime, which you likely won't get
lone junco
It's nice to know the meta so you can have a target.
lost horizon
Absolutely, which is why I threw out that ttk and TC are also decent
lone junco
👌
lost horizon
Though I will say for most bosses you'll parse better with SS
lone junco
I keep 1ss myself. Cause the ma window gives me rage when it doesn't crit.
ripe nimbus
👌
lost horizon
I'm full MA for mekka but
SS pad on everything before that is too juicy
Now that I finally have a usable 3SS set
Despite scuffing my rekills yesterday
ripe nimbus
I mean 3 SS is a bit excessive in BoD
ripe nimbus
The only one id argue that it has value is grong. The other ones not so much
lone junco
You ggg the adds and vanish gg the boss?
cobalt pelican
depends what you mean in terms of value
lost horizon
Yeah
ripe nimbus
Thats fine. Do wat u wan u a strong independent rogue who dont need no man
lone junco
That's SS prime.
lost horizon
On farm it's just pad anyways
ripe nimbus
On prog its pad
lone junco
I don't really care about adds on open. But I do like gg on jade bros.
lost horizon
SS on Rasta even on prog is still good
cobalt pelican
i play 3ss (as ne) up for 6/9 and then ther est 3dd3np
lost horizon
Grong too
Yeah exactly
Mekka is where you drop that shit
I prefer MA on conclave too tbh
But I don't like reforging back and forth for Rasta after
lost horizon
I gotta reforge for M+ anyway
But had kept mine below 1k too
I just reforge Tuesday for raid
Then Thursday after raid back to m+
ripe nimbus
I mean that is entirely comp dependant if u dont have locks spriest boomies then maybe ur gettin actual value on rasta. As long as the adds die when they need to die with out ur dps on them id consider that padding. Ur dps wasnt needed on them and could instead be put into the boss
stable oxide
On Jaina Mythic, which traits are the best?
spice surge
Gutripper
stable oxide
Do you recommend more NP for more burst for specific phases?
ripe nimbus
Gutripper xD
spice surge
And standard ST traits
lost horizon
I mean my best Rasta kill I was 3k ahead overall, and 5k ahead on just Rasta DPS
lost horizon
Just make sure you hit Rasta with SS too ez
stable oxide
I have 3 DD, 1 NP and 2 TC
ripe nimbus
TC is pretty meh for jaina
lost horizon
@ripe nimbus I'm actually ranked higher for boss dmg than overall
stable oxide
But I assume TC might not be good on Jaina cause you might die faster and shit
ripe nimbus
Id swap TCs
spice surge
Your not gonna die from TC
stable oxide
My alternative would than be 3 DD, 1SS and 2 NP
spice surge
TC is definitely fine on jaina
You're not dropping low that often in p3 with healing cds up
ripe nimbus
Its not about it killing u. Its the fact its healing intensive fight and u often dip below 50% HP
stable oxide
So im thinking of either 3DD, 1 SS , 2 NP <-----> 3DD, 2 TC, 1NP
ripe nimbus
Okay tell that to all the guilds progging with mediocre healers
stable oxide
What Critizin says makes sense, thats what I was wondering aswell
stable oxide
hmmmm okay
ripe nimbus
I run 3 DD 1NP, 1BI and 1 SS
strange python
Dont like MA? :p
ripe nimbus
Nope
bleak spoke
SS rotation feels really smooth but i kinda hate delaying second vendetta
cobalt pelican
TC is fine if it is much better than your alternatives at 90 percent uptime
mint peak
The MA rotation is smoother it just sucks when you don't crit and you have a talent that did nothing
lone junco
In the scale of a 6:22 fight and a 6:46 fight. It probably doesn't matter.
ma crits your bleeds and poisons and melee and dd and env and tb.
cobalt pelican
depends how clean your phase one is as to how much uptime you'll have
lone junco
But that 2cp mut feeels bad
soft island
guyz anyone know how to setup the simulationcraft addon ? since it sims 2K dps less than mr robot I smell smoething fishy
pale agate
i wouldn't compare to mr. robot, i would compare to raidbots
if your own sims match up with raidbots that is probably good enough
royal lantern
FINALY
soft island
gz
covert crag
gz
spice surge
Because raidbots is updated, your local one most likely isnt
soft island
I found some setup and set it according to it, w8ting for raidbots to compare
plain thistle
are you sure you are using simc with the last nightly version?
swift moss
Do you guys do vendetta with on use - vanish - Tb - envenom - mut - envenom with ma or do you vendetta with on use - Tb - vanish - envenom - mut - envenom?
lone junco
Raidbots is superior in a few ways. Gear sets and smart sim being one of them.
Top gear selection of azerite traits is a real value
vestal wren
raidbots is nothing more then a web interface ontop of simc
it manages the workers/etc. its equally powerfull
nightly gets updated to the latest simc version every morning (iirc 8 cest)
elder gulch
what do you guys think would be better in m+: 3x NP or 2xNP 1x Treacherous?
lone junco
Nothing more than a gear set management tool. And that makes it worth a lot. Lots of programs are just UI improvements to a cumbersome base model.
wary ice
@elder gulch both those options are super sub par.
swift moss
Does ma snapshot the buff to gar and rup in the opener?
shy axle
no
swift moss
Thanks
wooden fog
Hey guys, does increasing your mastery affect your evenom's damage? My mastery stat weight is almost as high as haste atm and I have a TTK trait. Thanks
spice surge
Yes
wooden fog
Thanks!
woven fjord
I have a Assination question
vestal wren
its inconvinient
lost horizon
It's not ideal
But if the combo sim highest for what you've got then use em
And maybe sim some passive trinkets that you don't have to see if you should maybe go farm dice or spyglass or something
woven fjord
have boon plumage dice and dead eye all 400 which two are better in your opinion hate the dual use trinkets
unborn root
I thought you weren't supposed to stack Nothing Personal, but all the top logs have players that are running 2/3 NP pieces? What's the deal with that?
lost horizon
You gotta sim it
woven fjord
ty
lost horizon
GCB is strong but you may also wanna consider avoiding it sometimes due to the positioning requirement
@unborn root are you looking at heroic?
Or mythic?
unborn root
Mythic
lost horizon
Honestly not sure, some cases could be result of short fight length increasing the value
unborn root
Ive gone through the entire tier running 3x covenant
spice surge
Its not that the 2nd and 3rd NPs are bad
Its that the first one is better by a fair bit
shy axle
since the sim was fixed (NP benefiting from haste) 3x NP is a very solid option. Can`t go wrong with either DD+ 3x NP or TC
strange python
Hey guys, i use the Affenar WA. Do you know if theres a way to add to the Rupture WA a number that shows the number of combo points spend on the bleeding?
idle vigil
Why would that ever matter
Pandemic refresh is based on the new rupture
Not the old one
vestal wren
rupture is cp independent, so 🤷
strange python
Im really new to the rogue so i don't follow you guys, sorry
idle vigil
Rupture is ticking down
If you have 5 cp u can refresh rupture at 7.2 s
If you only are doing a 4 cp rupture
U can refresh at like 5. Something I forget
But the last rupture’s cp is irrelevant
U understand pandemic windows yes?
strange python
okey, thanks^^
hollow stone
@woven fjord if you want opinion, i would run plumage and dice for raid if all are equal ilvl. But whoever said sim it is more correct
pale agate
for maximizing EP, it's more about the mutilates than the envenoms right? like, if I can squeeze in a envenom right before EP falls off, but that woudl leave me energy-starved for the next EP, I shouldn't do that?
have 2 TTK if that makes a diff
hollow stone
You want env to be during ep buff if possible
So you would aim to env at 0.01 on ep
spare dust
does mastery increase envenom damage?
hollow stone
Because ep doesnt pandemic, you want it as close to the end of the buff as possible so you dont clip your buff too early
Yea. Mast is poison dmg, env is poison dmg
spare dust
thank you
pale agate
thanks @hollow stone
topaz crow
Just a quck question for anybody that else that does 18+ Mythics. This week feeling extremely clsoe on time?
lofty gate
Does someone have a BiSlot from the raid please?
shy axle
icyveines has
lofty gate
thanks
heavy skiff
do i need to aa the target with spyglas? or does fok work?
spice surge
Yes
vestal wren
but exsang snapshotting
fleet whale
lurker's insidious gift, well not like it's hard to use, but you could kill yourself if you're not careful 😛
vestal wren
and vendetta haste scaling
heavy skiff
and make sure tank doesnt moove
vestal wren
so much variables 😖
heavy skiff
i solved that by macroing it to a whisp to the tank
telling him not to move
he did
but then i changed it to /say
and he removed the ignore
he did it 4 the raid
fleet whale
when was the last time a trinket was "hard" to use?
fleet whale
that is just about positioning, like galecaller's
fleet whale
that isn't much different than any other on-use trinket
it's either you react to a proc, or line things up with your cds 90% of the time
also, i wonder if blizz will bring back pure stat stick trinks in bfa, or if they thought that they were a failure in Legion
civic palm
Yeah I doubt we're getting AGI + MASTERY as a trinket this expansion.
rigid mango
I didn't play rogue back in leg, was the urn really insane for rogue too?
civic palm
Just or not, it was very good.
marble elm
bis for dragons of nightmare
heavy skiff
im running 3xSS 2XEB and 1 BBi
boralus trinket proc + bbi proc
75% CRIT
si fucking good
left storm
for this weeks affixes, should i be running crimson tempest or poison bomb
candid jasper
I can't decide what to play this week, outlaw or sin with echoing blades, but it's a weird one as it's tyrannical, so I imagine it would be useful to bring some single target damage too
slow mortar
I was thinking, is/could there be a crit% where deep stratagem and ttk traits get really bonkers? Very niche scenario
inland stump
wow, the person who did that pinned post guide on openers and so on is a genius
civic palm
o _O
inland stump
I saw my dps improve so much while using agility pot, doing the right opener and also after the opener having all cds aligned to use them at the same time
cuz before I didn't open the right way, didn't use a pot aswell as augment rune, and then my cds didn't align together
civic palm
I dunno about genius though > _>"
inland stump
well a very good player*
😃
just need some better traits, prob 1 more SS, NP and DD and better trinkets
harsh sphinx
Was under the impression a robot figures it out but there's a person behind the bot. Could be very wrong thoigh
inland stump
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fd1BnCgArX48VFKN/#type=damage-done&boss=-2&difficulty=0 if anyone doesn't mind looking at the logs from todays HC raid, would u say I performed good/decent for my ilvl? Im ofc still improving and just recently managed to practise on my opener
civic palm
Well first, figuring out what is the right way of doing things isn't difficult, it just takes iteration on a baseline.
harsh sphinx
just looked at the blockade kill
inland stump
yea? 😃
harsh sphinx
on your opener you envenom before TB
tidal jetty
thats a random potion 😮
civic palm
The truth of the matter is that there are small, marginal gains to acquire so long you are not doing something very poorly.
inland stump
woops
harsh sphinx
you really want to get minimum 2 off in the TB window 3 ideally
and the prepot def wanna use that before the pull
civic palm
If you follow the logic rules in the guide and follow them, you will know whether you are doing things right or wrong.
If you are more interested look at logs that have similar kill times to yours and scrub through their timeline.
inland stump
not right as u start?
harsh sphinx
if you use it before the pull you can use another one later in the fight
with lust or your next vendetta lets say
inland stump
ahh alright, thats why I wasn't able to use
yea will keep it in mind 😃
the opener is work in progress atm but other than that, how did i perform`?
tidal jetty
about as good as 77% of rogues your ilvl¨
civic palm
So long your bleeds are up 98%+ of the game, you are using Toxic Blade on cooldown (so long you are using the entire duration), and getting 2-3 ENV every TB, you're fine.
stuck leaf
Hello! New rogue player here, kinda confused about the AOE. So at how many mobs should I only spam Fan of Knives + Envenom? Or should you just always garrote on CD, regardless of how many mobs there are? Sorry if stupid question
solar rose
Non empowered garrotes on AoE are bad and usually not worth the global unless you desperately need the energy. You should also be applying ruptures to every target if they'll live the full duration or near the full duration.
candid jasper
Interesting, 3x NP + 3x DD are simming less than 3x DD and 1x NP + 1x trech + 1x blight
harsh sphinx
3dd2np1tc sims highest for me. no blight yet 
candid jasper
It's interesting because bloodmallet is showing NP + DD being way higher than tretch and blightborne
solar rose
I don't think blight is that great compared to NP or TC.
civic palm
Because SIMs take place in a specifically designated magical christmas land.
mossy adder
Nps are decent to stack but blightborbe isnt great imo
candid jasper
Would people say that 3x SS is still the goto for M+ or is it better to hit the echoing blades build?
solar rose
3ss 3echoing is great if you have that available to you
candid jasper
I get really good results from SS in m+ as I play with meld
maybe, let me see
I can do 3x EB 2x SS with a dagger in the back or a twist the knife
TTK might work for pumping envenoms into something
solar rose
There's good alternatives, TTK or even TC. In our world first 24 temple I used 3ss 2eb 1TC
yeah TTK is good
strange python
how i handle it currently with weapons. what counts most. ilvl, socket or stats? for ST/MT
strange python
stats over socket for second hand?
candid jasper
Yeah, I could do 3x SS 2x EB again with 1x TTK
3 SS + 2 EB vs 3 EB + 2 SS hmm 😄
interesting
Since I play meld, I could probably go for the 3x SS
harsh sphinx
i can never decide between TTK builds guess it depends on dungeon and affixes mainly but 3ttk/2eb/1ss or 2/2/2 seems standard
strange python
2 ss 2 eb 2 ttk
🤔
i have to choose between 410 haste/vers, 405 crit/vers socket & 405 cirt/haste for offhand
solar rose
if I had t o guess it would be the socket, but I would sim it.
autumn sonnet
@strange python sim it
candid jasper
I really hate these azerite respec costs 😦
solar rose
Running TTK over SS and EB definitely varies on affixes and dungeons. I think they're all good and have their uses
candid jasper
@solar rose were you playing with poison bomb on your 24?
solar rose
yeah I only really play poison bomb in temple and kings rest or if I'm running toxic blade w/ TTK
in my SS/echoing build I usually play exsang with CT
candid jasper
Ah interesting
On teeming, 3x EB, 2x SS + 1x TTK might be really nice
Or maybe even 3x EB, 1x SS + 2x TTK -- those envenoms would be spicy --- fok envenom fok envenom
civic palm
Too much ENV > _>
candid jasper
oh?
harsh sphinx
that's what sims highest for me atm but idk what to run this week any input appreciated https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/obKyh8ATmzVfvX2bTCHp5W
strange python
envenom is the worst spell
candid jasper
Ah, on reaping? would you be doing ruptures then?
civic palm
EBx3 does extreme damage.
candid jasper
Rightio, I'll have a play in some lower keys to see
solar rose
I usually run with the highest amount of SS and EB then fill with TTK or TC depending on my group composition
If you want prio damage go with a higher TTK build w/ toxic blade
if you want gigga aoe go SS + echoing
candid jasper
I think I'll try 3xEB this week with 2x SS and 1 TTK then
civic palm
Prio. requires 2 AoE DPSers if you are pushing your keys, most of the time.
Which is just about everyone.
candid jasper
Prio?
harsh sphinx
looking to time a big ML this week, was thinking 3ttk/2eb/1ss will be prime for that
civic palm
Yeah.
solar rose
There's a lot of mobs in there that are very lethal for melee as well as peacekeepers having a billion health. TTK is very good in there
harsh sphinx
ya seems like with chain pulling the dungeon before the first boss the value of SS and me not being nelf will go down a lot
civic palm
no
solar rose
I prefer CT especially on this week but PB is honestly fine
desert vault
3x eb this week? that feels like a lot for this week
rustic ether
3EB 1SS 2TTK
desert vault
i'm doing 2x eb/ss/ttk and could do 2x eb, 3x ss, 1x ttk but just going the 2x route i think
rustic ether
this week is all about chain pulling
so getting restealths for SS is pretty difficult
desert vault
i can't run more than 2x ttk really
could do 3x eb, 2x ss, 1x ttk but feel like 1x ttk would suck pretty hard on bosses
strange python
whats your guys opinion on how much haste running for aoe gear? i talked to some rogues some say 6% enough, other says 12% is a good breakpoint, whats your experience with it
desert vault
i run 12 just cause that is about as best as i can get
solar rose
Go with highest item level. The difference between 6%-> 12% haste is not that big. If you're running echoing blades. You'll have better results running crit/vers. If you're running TTK crit/mastery will be better. It's not worth sacrificing that much ilevel for "perfect" stats cause of wf/tf/ sockets being the game
strange python
mh crit/vers for eb sounds interesting, i reach 30 crit/8% vers
eager barn
multiple NP is not so great?
solar rose
It scales well, multiple of them is good/fine
eager barn
ok, i am just setting up an assn spec as i finally have a decentish 2nd set of gear
and was reading in the assn guide that its a good one point wonder
which makes it sound like stacking it isn't so great
rustic ether
it is a great one point wonder for sure
however stacking them only loses the energy boost bit
so its not a huge loss with stacking
3DD 3NP is honeslty what some rogues run and it works fantastic
eager barn
ahhh ok, so 2x NP, 2x DD, is still as sim shows, better than 1x NP, 3x DD
solar rose
The difference between 0-1 NP is HUGE. Going from 1-2 isn't as massive as 0-1 but it's still good
rustic ether
i believe if you can go 3dd 1np its SLIGHTLY better
like if 1DD is 100 dps and 3 DD is 300dps
but np is 105 dps and 3 np would be 295
its still very good to stack both but dd takes slight prio
trail juniper
So kinda new to assassination. can someone explain to me the key to energy pooling?
harsh sphinx
@meager nebula i lost a socket https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bK96eXz9D2jUm6hcHyaPer
elder merlin
3x eb in ml 18 got a 41k overall.. EB confirmed not a meme
civic palm
Just make sure you have enough energy to get 2 - 3 Envenoms off during every Toxic Blade. @trail juniper
full parcel
what is "ttk"?
elder merlin
twist the knife
desert vault
@elder merlin what other traits you running?
desert vault
huh, that is an interesting setup
i was having fun with my 3x eb/ss all 415 setup last week, not really much for this week
I wonder if a 400 spyglass is better than a 400 razorleaf with a socket ... hrmm
elder merlin
i can get 2ss with 3x eb but 1 piece will be 405
desert vault
I can do 3x eb, 2x ss, 1x ttk this week but feel like 2x ttk is a bit better for bosses at least
hrmm maybe i'll try a 3x eb, 2x ss, 1x np actually cause I can do that all 415 as well, might be interesting
meager nebula
@harsh sphinx unfortunate
desert vault
right, i know its pretty bad, just trying to think of how to get 3x eb, but prolly not much i can do really without giving up too much st
tribal obsidian
can traits bug for assassination?
white basalt
whats that weak aura that pulls timers from DBM and displays them vertically? please and thank you
found it for anyone curious https://wago.io/B1pfxTOtb/11
tribal obsidian
I dont get it
spice surge
what do you mean
tribal obsidian
i dont know how nothing personal and envenom are so low on the second one
sturdy python
Could be a ton of factors. Kill times, your play, mechanics
cobalt gyro
NP literally did half as much so it sounds like kill time
tribal obsidian
actually i just realized it was not the right link my bad
desert vault
what's the general order for conclave? gonk, kimbal, paku?
civic palm
Depends on the number of dispels you have IIRC.
desert vault
i'm just helping some friends, they are struggling a lot, trying to give some advice
weak garnet
At the end of, say, freehold, how much damage percentage wise should crimson tempest be doing?
solar rose
10-12% ish
weak garnet
k, gotta work on things then.. I'm in the 7% range
solar rose
but also really depends on how your group is pulling
cobalt gyro
smaller pulls where you can't use it = CT will end up dealing less
lost horizon
lightning side volatile charges?
opal meadow
How do i get like 27k dps?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2wXUv31g5Kdp7WLU8VZhTk
scenic nacelle
Drop it in a corner and keep dpsing
civic palm
@opal meadow Get 11 sockets and 425 weapons > _>
primal gazelle
imagine doing almost 70k overall dps by pressing 1 button for 70% of my damage LUL
primal gazelle
hey man my rotation is extremely complex
robust lake
i feel like i do no single target when i have eb like at all
cobalt gyro
what dungeon is that
round harbor
BuT sIn DoEs GoOd St DmG
primal gazelle
freehold
round harbor
mean while it does 500 more st dps than outlaw lol
and gets crushed most everywhere else
robust lake
idk imaybe i just suck at outlaw but i do aton more st as sin
stable pine
what traits are eveveryone running for Tyrannical?
primal gazelle
tfw i sim higher ST with outlaw than sin w/ 3 eb
primal gazelle
if i had 3 eb/3ss, the ST sim would be about the same
have 1 ttk atm and it gives a little less ST than ss
stable pine
@primal gazelle what are you running for this week?
cobalt gyro
lmao that must be some big fuckin pulls
robust lake
i guess i raid mostly but my raid gear is 3 DD 1 NP 1 blightborn infusion and then im rocking the engi helm so one weird one
round harbor
i mean
robust lake
so im killin it single target
robust lake
u should tell my tanks that 😭
they pull 3 mobs then pull another 3 while the last ones still up so i can never stealth
unless i vanish
primal gazelle
@stable pine i swap around between outlaw/sin depending on dungeon
outlaw for "real" keys unfortunately 😦
robust lake
i think he meant traits
primal gazelle
oh im always 3 eb 2 ss 1 ttk
robust lake
poison bomb?
primal gazelle
im a hidden blades memer
robust lake
are you really lol
primal gazelle
yessir
primal gazelle
grats
primal gazelle
how many pulls
smoky fiber
we wiped at 5.51% earlier tonight too
primal gazelle
ya fok at 20
smoky fiber
i think the guild had like 310 or something? i had 133 pulls on her
robust lake
with hidden blades do you spam fok still or do you want to let them stack up or something weird
primal gazelle
did u not see my screenshot
cobalt gyro
ofc you fok spam still
robust lake
idk ive literally never run it
primal gazelle
very complicated
cobalt gyro
you just get to pull agro REAL hard once every 20s (:
round harbor
nah
robust lake
tricks loser
civic palm
heh
round harbor
it just makes ur average fok hit harder
civic palm
checks TotT CD
round harbor
the 20 stacks isnt like 400k burst or anything
civic palm
checks 20 seconds
robust lake
when ur good at tricksing no one will notice but if ur bad everyones always like smh arent u a rogue
robust lake
i was in a dungeon and the tank was like dh how are u keeping ur threat so low
and im like 😦 im giving u mine tank on cd
hollow stone
And you can troll easier too
robust lake
lol guildy put on the neural silencer or whatever and then tanked a dungeon
me and the hunter were like searching the forums for bugs
why no tricks?? i can tricks everyone ELSE?
we had him relog
idiot forgot he put it on
cobalt gyro
it says on the tooltip that threat abilities won't work
also works if YOU have the silencer
robust lake
you cant tricks anyone
???
i miss when tricks gave damage so you tricksed a hunter then theyd md
round harbor
its really fun when u die half a second tricks ends cause u arnt running with a warrior
and no other tank and even remotely hold aggro
strange python
what is this place
stray ivy
so to compete with outlaw AOE i need 3x eb and 3x ss ?
cobalt gyro
if you're trying to compete with outlaw aoe, just play outlaw
stray ivy
damn how the hell would i get 55Crit
harsh sphinx
deadly nav + spyglass is pretty good
round harbor
is that ur buffed crit
sleek iron
When you run blightborne and you fit in 4 envenoms during Tb it blows your dps on the charts
harsh sphinx
dick on the table
sleek iron
Beautiful to see
bleak spoke
@harsh sphinx those are pretty beautiful stats
i wonder at what crit% you get diminishing returns from getting more crit
like probably relative from dungeon to dungeon but probably still fun to work out a number like x% chance to crit with y enemies
err, to get 5 cp*
or 4 would be more realistic
cuz the difference going from 25 to 30 and then to 35 were enormous feeling
harsh sphinx
thanks, i guess i could drop some haste for more crit or mastery but it feels good to me atm
harsh sphinx
didn't know that lol just felt good
bleak spoke
yee
shoutouts to @spice surge for figuring that out ;o
https://i.imgur.com/HRn6TuK.png feels bad man
feels 2 haste gems and 2 crit gems
i need a fh ring with a socket i think
harsh sphinx
ended up going with the motherload crit/haste socket over it
bit more crit
or was it siege
think siege is crit/haste
ya trippin its siege
bleak spoke
Ayyy ran an alt KR with some of my push people and got an extra like 100 crit and a socket on glove slot
Still no plumage but it’s gonna be less abysmal dropping crit to get to the magic number
For haste D:
rustic ether
idk how people have the crit like that
i have quite a bit of vers that i can drop i guess but 600 crit isnt enough for 10% crit lol
rustic ether
i guess ill be rerolling on mekka tomorrow then
hope i get a 415 trink
still no clue how to use it tho lul
strange python
So people, can i go for 11% haste and then crit? Cause i have the gear for it. Talking about raid environments
rustic ether
oof
youre mixing up the stat chocie of aoe m+ and St Raid
you cannot be raiding with 11% haste lol
i run with 19.6% and i still need more
rustic ether
should i just focus on using the trinket on trash?
worldly iron
oh you mean like that?
alright, gotcha
I don't really know when it's best to use trinkets on trash, I'm guessing you want as many casts as possible in the entire run
rustic ether
you just made me reocgnize that i never use my trinket outside of vendetta
ive always just connected it to vendetta keybind
so like
holy shit
bronze kelp
which trinket ?
covert crag
Mekkatorque
rustic ether
well no my trinket
i have a plume
connected to my vendetta
that would be kinda fucking useful on big trash pulls for 20 god damn seconds of massive EB dmg
rustic ether
i had one ML 20 but my tank went blood thirsty and chain pulled like a god damned maniac and no one other than me tried to call interupts
lost horizon
rip
harsh sphinx
think a few of the waycrest reaps are just awesome
rustic ether
what dungeons do people start using evasiveness?
elusiveness?
the defensive talent
i know freehold you prolly want to run it
grizzled jay
Temple/KR
glacial comet
Ye
bronze kelp
every dungeon where have unavoidable st dmg incoming
atomic saddle
Outlaw is meta but am I the only one feeling like assa performs better this week?
rough yarrow
Tbh with x3 eb and x3 ss and good crit i dont find bif diffs between them
Problem is to get that gear
grizzled jay
Very hard to get 3x415 SS EB sadly
rough yarrow
Yea got it last night
night vale
I only needed the chest... killed mythic conclave last night... no chest, random azerite vendor and got the EB, SS chest
rough yarrow
With trinket procs and food i reach iirc close to 40% crit which is nice
grizzled jay
That last EB is the playmaker
night vale
Best case, erm like 42k, but really dependant in group and pull sizes
rough yarrow
Depends but 35k at least. I have seen 40k plus
night vale
Yeah did 17 waycrest last night... finished at 38 but trash died waaaay too quick for garotte
strange python
Don't you guys think 3xEB is way overkill this week with Tyranical tho?
rough yarrow
Ill spam the fuck out of freehold this week in hope for tf dice. Galecallers is cancer in many fights to stay in
night vale
Depends what your group needs. If you need aoe damage then play EB I guess 😃
strange python
Yes ofc. But one of the strongest points why you wanna play Sin is the ST. Specially for tyranical
night vale
Idk, I tend to do the most overall dps in my group and top 2 boss dmg dependant on fight length for vendetta, with 3xEB and 3xSS
I don’t feel the need to drop my aoe to do more ST, I do like 22-25 on a high key tyrannical boss usually (pure st)
But that’s just me with my group
rough yarrow
Yea depends on your overall gear. Im 417 and 25k in st with x3eb is doable. I dont think u need more than that. Plus u probably gonna have some lock to pump 40k dps.
mortal gyro
Question about SS from returning player:
Does the buff still disapear if you apply another Garrote after the third one on your opening on adds. I remember in 8.0 that if i applied a 4th garrote, either the Subterfuge talent buff or the SS azerite buff would disapear. Makes me unsure if I should apply Garrotes as soon as its off CD or wait for the initial 3 to run out before applying additional Garrotes?
night vale
^ yep, you do fine ST dmg with the EB traits, garotte does a ton of dmg
rough yarrow
Fixed
mortal gyro
so its safe to spam garrote immediately as it goes off CD?
night vale
Yeah 😃
shell zealot
Yeah
rough yarrow
Yep
vast forum
I mean, it's safe but you don't really want to cast non-empowered garrotes on aoe
worldly iron
spam garrote with 6s cd 
mortal gyro
its more on bosses with adds
i know spam is probably not the right word, but i usually always hit the buttons repeatedly until it procs.
worldly iron
I know whatcha meant, I'm just kidding 
mortal gyro
the worst feeling was applying 2 buffed garrotes and then input lag makes the 3rd one put garrote on cooldown outside of subterfuge, always thought i just fucked all damage up
spiral escarp
@vague kernel
Last night from ML18 45k overall :D
Tank was pretty nuts too 34k overall 😄
Poor boomie there 😃
strange python
What traits did you run in that ML? TB or Exsang?
night vale
I’d appreciate some tips for the 2nd boss in ML.... I always get giga fixated at the start and have to run around doing no damage? Any tips
golden relic
its RNG
night vale
Yeah, but any tips for dealing with it when you do get fixated, any tricks I can do, don’t think evasion works?
golden relic
ucan evasion and claok but thats like what , 3-4 sec of taking no dmg
or even just cloak iirc
cobalt gyro
Kite them
golden relic
but idk, usually we just round them up playing with a monk, kite them into a ring and thats enough time to cleave em down
tired drift
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
tired drift
the waiting game for energy is real
bronze kelp
ML 2nd boss? just dot everything whilst being in evasion, after that, kite and foc on max range @night vale
not sure if you can drop fixate with vanish
bronze kelp
but if you got fixated bye 2 or even 3 mobs, the rest of the group has to focus kill those mobs
primal quest
is there any instance where its good to use 2 equip trinkets instead of 1 use /1 equp effect
strange python
How does 3xSS, 2xEB, 1xBBI. 37% Crit, 38% Mastery and 10% Haste as Nelf sound for this week. I guess i have to go back to Exang with 3xSS :( so used to TB with 3xTTK now
bronze kelp
why dont you stay on 3 ttk ?
strange python
I got Gorak and I wanna use BBI SS.
bronze kelp
the go 2 ttk 2eb 1bbi 1 ss ?
or does this not work due to trait combination ?
but sure, if you run 3 ss exsang is a good thing for prio target burst
heavy skiff
I run 3xss 2xeb 1xbbi
Its so fucking good
Bbi + boralus trinket
75% crit
Cant wait to get mekka trinket
And see how.much crit.i can get
100% is real
spiral escarp
@vague kernel I run 3 SS, 2 EB, 1 TC
Always CT, unless King's Rest.
You can check my char for more info: https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/ravencrest/Rohnja
heavy skiff
ct? HB meme is the way to go xD
heavy skiff
Remove that ct
bronze kelp
ct for overall dmg is funny ^^
heavy skiff
Only spam fok