my group for keys has mage/dh/rogue
#assassination
cobalt gyro
fair blaze
but i'm dotting really often
fair blaze
due to energy starving
inland stump
cuz ur haste is low :/
atomic saddle
Well I wouldn't trust those stat weights at all.
fair blaze
on Reaping pulls
inland stump
wow, u have 5 ilvl higher than me
fair blaze
to not starve
inland stump
and almost do 10k dps more
cobalt gyro
again, dslice has a lot more single target
inland stump
trinkets op i guess...
cobalt gyro
so it makes sense for haste to be weighted such
fair blaze
And azerite gear
inland stump
I will send my sim
fair blaze
😛
inland stump
look at my trinkets...
cobalt gyro
trinkets don't add 10k dps
atomic saddle
Well I wonder how it gets 30k dps with AoE built rogues if it is that much single target
inland stump
I have 1 of each of the good ones
atomic saddle
cant be "that" much u know
inland stump
cuz u have several dots
cobalt gyro
dslice is a good estimate but it's not going to meet perfect conditions
atomic saddle
I think we just need to figure out ourselves in the end
atomic saddle
ye next week im going to stack haste and ST traits
inland stump
do u guys use EP or MP on first row?
fair blaze
Pulls all oozes and then reaping comes
atomic saddle
EP
inland stump
(talents)
fair blaze
it's so awful to play with PB and haste
atomic saddle
PB feels pretty good tbh
atomic saddle
you shouldnt play CT with 3x EB at all
inland stump
hahah nice one xD
is it right to spam mutilates and envenoms?
especially during TB
cobalt gyro
you want EP up during important damage windows
atomic saddle
Also, the sound of PB proccing is kind of satisfying
fair blaze
the main thing you should do
cobalt gyro
that's really when it matters
inland stump
example given?
fair blaze
is casting as many env as can
inland stump
except TB
fair blaze
Vendetta
inland stump
yea its 2-3
inland stump
well its hard to get vendetta to combo with tb except in the start
fair blaze
During empowerred gaarrote
inland stump
clip every EP?
cobalt gyro
*without capping energy
fair blaze
Yes
cobalt gyro
use it sooner if you will cap
fair blaze
During BL for example
cobalt gyro
because energy > EP
inland stump
yea, I do that as good as possible and have 95%+ efficienct most of the time
inland stump
i have a genreal idea
I just need to know what to prio
finishers should always be 4-5?
inland stump
except rupture which can be extended but still refresh at 4-5
inland stump
i can only manage 1 maybe 2 envenoms per EP
fair blaze
Yeah
inland stump
I use rupture at 4-5 pts all the time except if I am very lw on energy or have to move due to mechanic
inland stump
then just extend that one later
cobalt gyro
envenom refreshes ep so that's fine
fair blaze
hit stronger
inland stump
but basically, after managing my dots
what should I do? spam muti and envenom?
and use cds whenever they are up
fair blaze
On boss or on trash?
cobalt gyro
use mutilate to avoid capping energy
inland stump
both but mostly boss
cobalt gyro
spend on env to avoid capping CP
inland stump
so I shouldn't spam them?
inland stump
yea
fair blaze
plan ahead
cobalt gyro
you can spam if you want to, but you want to have at least 100 energy for TB
inland stump
and get at the very least 2 envenoms
cobalt gyro
also re: dslice weights https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sEpz8JxZV9K7bqzGrzP3zs
mine also has haste weighted heavily
inland stump
but most of our dmg, regardless of build is from dots right?
cobalt gyro
it's fine 🤷
inland stump
atomic saddle
"Rapture" is the priest spell btw. Our finisher is "Rupture". Stop proccing my OCD plx :<
inland stump
my trinkets suck
even 380 versions of hairlines dice and gale callers boom are better
like cmon
cobalt gyro
your trinkets are fine
inland stump
then why are 380 trinkets upgrade on 400?
fair blaze
Because they are better
inland stump
as I thought
cobalt gyro
doesn't mean they're the reason your damage is low 🤷
fair blaze
Yeah
inland stump
true
inland stump
ow sorry if i came out rude btw
cobalt gyro
it's more traits ya
inland stump
I don't have the traits i want thats true
atomic saddle
Im peacing it, thx for the conversation cya round guys.
inland stump
i have one of each of the ones i want
fair blaze
Good night man
atomic saddle
gn8
inland stump
SS, DD and the vendetta thingy
inland stump
good night 😃
inland stump
sorry, but SoB, ST?
fair blaze
Incite the Pack
Scent of Blood
Single Target
getting back
Incite the Pack
also isn't the greates trait you can get
😄
cobalt gyro
scent is.. not great, yeah
inland stump
I know the best traits, even on logs are double dose, shorted suffocation(autocorrect yay)and nothing personal
fair blaze
If you know them, just aim for them 😄
inland stump
how can I get better stats? specific dungeons or raid? or just luck?
fair blaze
Better items provides better stats
cobalt gyro
bit of luck
fair blaze
And you must handle it
inland stump
and also, how does stacks SS work? does the dmg buff stack? like 3 SS is 240% garrote buff and how about combo pts?
yea
cobalt gyro
you'll get more damage per SS stack
inland stump
so I can have 240% garrote
cobalt gyro
but only ever get 3 cp from it
inland stump
u kidding??
inland stump
alright
inland stump
but how does the stacking work
fair blaze
You can see at herodamage or bloodmallet
how they works
They don't add
I would say they multiplie
But not sure
cobalt gyro
if you have 3 SS traits, and each trait gives you, say, 1,100 damage
you will be dealing 3,300 per tick extra
inland stump
wow 😮
inland stump
both m+ and raids
fair blaze
So probably a good azerite traits
would be SS+DD
combo
they will work on m+ and raids
It's good start
Longer in game you would use 2 sets
One for raid
and one for m+
fair blaze
Dmg
inland stump
does the energy regen stack
inland stump
so I can't get 100+ energy extra from vendetta? xD
fair blaze
Nope
inland stump
ahh alright
a rogue friend of mine said so aswell
similar
how can I make my dmg more consistent?
cuz I can reach and stay at 20k, was one fight at HC Jadefire where I reached and stayed at 20k
but it was that fight and that encounter tho
civic palm
Play more consistently, our damage delta isn't large.
inland stump
play more consistently? do more runs?
inland stump
which are? overcap? fail to dot refresh?
civic palm
Everything, literally.
fair blaze
Overcapping energy, wasting CP, refreshing outside pandemic window, letting Rupture and nonempowerred garrote fall of
civic palm
Without knowing where issues are, you have to try and do everything better.
inland stump
Im trying thats why I ask A LOT of questions
refreshing outside pandemic windows means before 1-5 secs of each dot?
and as late as possible on buffed garrote
fair blaze
It means
inland stump
?
fair blaze
Do you have any logs which can we check?
civic palm
Just having them isn't solving the problem, as refreshing them at the pandemic window isn't always the right choice.
inland stump
when looking at wowanalyzer it seems that my dot refresh is the issue still but its hard if u are away from the boss for quite a while example given Gelbin
Yes I do actually
why not?
(i get u those logs, give me sec)
fair blaze
For example you don't want to refresh your empowerred garrote
civic palm
Encounter Mechanics and Movement mostly.
inland stump
I am indeed sloppy on that, I do refresh 3-4 sec too early cuz I see my WA flash and i auto refresh
alright great, whats better?
hit me 😃
fair blaze
You play with Subterfuge
inland stump
yes
civic palm
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
inland stump
I can extend it during the sub window?
like using it at the very start of sub and then at the end u mean?
ahh so thats why the guy used it twice on the vid
civic palm
Read the guide and Pins > _> come back with questions.
fair blaze
inland stump
I am and have, I just ask more detailed questions
fair blaze
Well
refreshing dots during TB window is better than not
but you want to refresh them before
pressing TB
inland stump
yea
civic palm
Multiple questions are answered elsewhere > _>"
inland stump
well its still just u minding me asking them?
if this person didn't want to help, he/she could told me to get lost
inland stump
so I can get in 2 maybe even 3 garrottes during sub?
cuz so i understood correct, thats the ONLY ability thats benefitting stealth?
fair blaze
No
unborn gate
Garotte Rupture Garotte is the opener
civic palm
With Subterfuge.
fair blaze
Do what Tarogg said
fair blaze
Read
unborn gate
You get 3 points from the rupture
fair blaze
Yeah
unborn gate
From the garotte*
civic palm
With Shrouded Suffocation.
inland stump
I don't actually, i get 2
fair blaze
He has one
inland stump
but
unborn gate
You get 3 :p
civic palm
Not possible.
inland stump
I can remove one Nothing Personal and get 2 SS?
fair blaze
Sim it
inland stump
will do
fair blaze
The other thing
Why did you cast
4 vendettas
and only 2 vanishes
Even if you don't sync them together
you probably
miss one cast of vanish
fair blaze
I can't understand
why
EP
isn't listed
on buff list
Ah
okay
you were playing with MP
civic palm
_>"
fair blaze
Well we figured it out that you should change that
inland stump
sim told me to get this
inland stump
should I get x2 haste?
civic palm
Read pins.
inland stump
alright
fair blaze
You don't use 2 same enchants
On blockade
Only one envenom
During TB window
One thing also to figure out
When you pool
for TB
?
inland stump
yea happens that I sometimes manage just 1 sadly
I have to improve my pooling for it
inland stump
just AA's
inland stump
and wait
fair blaze
Before TB
inland stump
yes
inland stump
both
fair blaze
Then
inland stump
i think both but try to before
fair blaze
eliminate that second part
Because you press TB on CD
except boss mechanic can't let you do that
inland stump
but I feel kinda ''stressed'' to use TB as soon as its off cd and thus don't pool enough and not doing 2+ envenoms
yea sometimes :/
fair blaze
Well
of course you will do less dps without 2+ envenoms
But think
how many dps you will lose
missing one cast of TB
because you didn't click TB on CFD
CD*
inland stump
Idk
fair blaze
More than pressing just one envenom 😄
inland stump
it sounds confusing what u just wrote I'm sry
so i rather wait with TB for 2 envenoms
than using it right off cd
?
fair blaze
No
civic palm
Nope.
inland stump
and when I have enough time on dots?
fair blaze
You are planning ahead to have 100 energy to press TB on CD
if you can't do that
just press TB
civic palm
or like 70 or so.
fair blaze
and press one envenom
inland stump
so 100 energy is the optimal amount for tb?
magic thorn
Why does Blightborne sim so high and higher then NP ? on goraks tul
inland stump
by WA isn't tho showing the amount of energy in numbers on the bar sadly
civic palm
Crit == Good
inland stump
I am aware of that but my trinkets is messing it up a bit
but this one should do that apparently, but it doesnt
fair blaze
@magic thorn it gives a lot of crit, and have a pretty good proc rate
inland stump
cuz a friend gave the same she uses and hers has numbers, mine doesnt
i gues i should just ask her later
fair blaze
Assuming
Read guide and pins
Correct your opener and TB usage
Change talents
and get better gear
Also don't stick to one build
Because with better gear MA can simm better for you
inland stump
yea sure 😃
fair blaze
And a lot of players can't get off playing with 3CP garrotes 😄
inland stump
i should sim my traits later today to see if its worth to sacrifice one double dose to get one SS
but I can still use garrote, rupture, garrote and then buff it up with a 4-5 pt rupture?
inland stump
oki, thanks 😃
will look into those more, just wanted to see if I could get some questions answered which is easier to get info from
fair blaze
Well good luck in your game, just don't get scared because sin rogue is a more planning class than others
inland stump
Im not, there are def harder specs out there and thanks for your help, sorry if I seemed stupid and asked stupid questions
rustic ether
what weakauras to track dungeon mechanics do most people use
i need something to let me know brutal backhand is happening
that shit gets me all the time and in 20+ thats one shotting lmfao
fair blaze
Also practice on dummy
It’s a good way to learn your opener and have it in your muscle memory
@rustic ether The top one on wago.io doesn’t have that?
rustic ether
whats the top one
i installed one but it just sets up a list that goes on for ten fucking miles and i dont know weakauras to be able to squish it
i tired for like 30 minutes
@civic palm
youre the only one i know who even touches weakauras
fair blaze
I assume
You tried these one?
It’s dynamic group
That’s means
That you won’t see all of them
They will show in order if they will be more than one
But i’m not sure if backhand is in there
rustic ether
thank you
inland stump
@fair blaze thanks 😃
fair blaze
Your welcome
@inland stump You can watch streamers like Seli(Incarnated on Twitch) or Flawless to learn some mechanics
rustic ether
jesus trying to edit this weakaura fucking crashes my game for 30 seconds lmao
fair blaze
Yeah because it have weakauras for all dungeons xd
rustic ether
how do i make them a lil bit bigged
i feel like it should just have a small adjustment in the corner T.T
fair blaze
Here is only for freehold
At the edges of bar
It should change color to yellow
Then you can click it
And drag to resize them
Other way is to go to display
inland stump
will follow them @fair blaze thanks!
fair blaze
Then change the value of “Size”
inland stump
I read up on the guide, I will try the rotation out later today but it says vanish paired with vendetta, the don't have to be used at the same time right? I can use vendetta if its like 5-6sec left on vanish and still get the buffed garrote a bit extra dmg from vendetta?, thats what it means right?
cuz it says pop vanish in the start of the opener and use vanish when garrote runs out which will be 20 or so sec after so they won't get off cd at the same time rly
rustic ether
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rustic ether
weakauras are actually so annoying jesus christ
i installed that weakaura and now afenars WA isnt loading
and neither is the bfa one
onyx rock
Solution: Create yourself
fair blaze
@inland stump you press them together
Because you will through whole vendetta
Empowerred garrote
rustic ether
@onyx rock yes ill just simply learn how to make complex weakauras like this
onyx rock
Usually it's not as hard as you think. When you understand the basics, everything else comes naturally.
But yes it takes some time.
inland stump
so since I use vendetta around 20 sec earlier than vanish means I have to wait for vanish to pop off cd to use it with vendetta?
since they both have 2min cd?
onyx rock
wich weakaure are you talking ablout @rustic ether ?
rustic ether
nevermind found it
APPARENTLY IT WAS ONLY LOADING IN VEHICLE
BY DEFAULT
i fucking hate weakauras lol
onyx rock
^^
fair blaze
@inland stump Yes
You can pop them separately but only if you know that fight won’t take long enough to pair them
onyx rock
Weakauras are like women. If you think you have it under control there is suddenly some problem and you do not know why. @rustic ether
rustic ether
its honestly so much easier than coding
and yet it has every aspect of coding
thats what makes me even more toxic
like i should know how to do this
inland stump
So if I am in a boss fight, I should wait those 20 or so sec for them to pair
cuz in the long run as u said, its more dps?
those are some awesome traits @round harbor I would hope for another SS so I can get 3 pts from garrote
@fair blaze
inland stump
I have to switch a double dose for another SS and it sims wrong for me
so guess not
but it seems to be worth it still cuz I get that 1 extra combo pt due to having 2
One or more Shrouded Suffocation powers for Toxic Blade
Garrote
Rupture
Garrote
Vendetta
Toxic Blade
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Vanish when Garrote runs out
Garrote twice
visual quartz
yes after opener for your second Vend you should hold it until vanish then they will both line up for the rest of the fight
inland stump
Most optimal with 2 or more
alright, thanks
I will hopefully see some more stable dps later
having my last day or trial for raids in my guild a bit nervous, haven't performed so consistent but not too bad either
I should probably get some agility pots aswell
even tho sim tells me its a downgrade but with a small amount, should I still change my double dose into a 2nd SS or keep double dose?
hero damage says SS does more dps than double dose but sim is a bit different for me
modest badge
inland stump
its funny that u can do so much aoe dmg, even while messing up by pressing 3 buttons
fan of knives, rupture and garrote
well u can still try both and see which feels more comfortable and which is better 😃
rustic ether
get rekt nerd
rustic ether
they saw you outperforming the guild
they had to keep you from performing too well or youd leave the guild for better
cobalt gyro
it's BEYOND tilting
lost sentinel
did you use your defensive? 😃
cobalt gyro
it was already on cd
hollow gyro
lost sentinel
evasion has like 15s heheh, oh well, shit happens
cobalt gyro
you can't evasion death knell
cobalt gyro
I shouldn't need to use feint to survive a death knell with no healers dead on farm
lost sentinel
ah right, feint
yeah, prob, I use it anyway, watch everyone else's health bars drop lol
inland stump
guys, even if sim tells me to use double dose instead of a second shrouded suffocation, should I still stick with that or change into a 2nd shrouded suffocation, the dps diff isn't that huge either
I can send a sim if u want to have a look
flat ocean
@cobalt gyro Did you healthpot and healthstone?
inland stump
and @cobalt gyro someone the game just doesn't like you, Grong obv got annoyed by u stabbing him that much, after all, Horde already killed him once, after harassing him and his species earlier in the quest line
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eWGJnQYACYSyUpn6fFeXnB I simmed the trait I have double dose on, and compared it with the same item where I switched the double dose for a 2nd shrouded suffocation, I guess its not worth the change in a longer fight right? so try my luck on better pieces then?
frail quiver
Can i get an F in the chat for buying 4 chest pieces so far, 3 of them being the same and bad and 4th one being the worst? Ayyy feelsamazingman
lost horizon
oof
i got 2 sanguine monstrosity shoulders in a row and felt pretty shit, but managed a decent piece today..
rustic ether
grats
frail quiver
Yeah my last 4 415 pieces from the vendor were; shit, same shit again, same shit again, even worse shit.
And was hyped to join the master assassin clan but oh well
cobalt gyro
i got a 415 crown from my opulence bonus roll
which is nice, i guess
wish i was a dagger
rustic ether
im jumping in for opulence and rastakhan next week
i kinda want more ttk possibility
cobalt gyro
ya, lots of ttk would be nice
frail quiver
I got both opulence head and rasta shoulders, both are shit xD
inland stump
that sucks @frail quiver 😦
frail quiver
Oh well. Better luck in 8 days i guess
inland stump
I will get my first +10 week reward
exited to see what it is cuz its definite upgrade
atleast hopefully since the highest ilvl a piece has for me(excluding HoA)is 405
frail quiver
Tomorrow is our last reclear on mythic before extending, last chance to get jadefire shoulders. Either that or PepeHands
inland stump
ahh your guild is mythic progressing?
frail quiver
Ya, at mekka atm
frail quiver
F
inland stump
ahh that gnome was a huge mess
ugh
I am also on dps trial in my guild for 3 raid nights, 2/3 done and last one today, done average so far, but read up on the rotation from that pinned guide and will try it and also to combine vendetta and vanish
so far my parses in the range of my ilvl 397, has been varying from grey to purple
anyway gl with your raid, good night 😃
round harbor
shit i cannot figure out how to get a high parse on jadefire
killtimes for our group are so wonky
harsh sphinx
Gotta get 5 buffs every time
cobalt gyro
wait until first multisided
round harbor
REEE
cobalt gyro
pop everything
round harbor
we lust on pull
cobalt gyro
round harbor
worth still?
lost horizon
i just pop on pull
round harbor
lust + potion feels maybe more than the buff
lost horizon
with hero on pull
round harbor
i saved vanish for after
so i could triple garrote
with the buff
and they phase at like 29 seconds ish
lost horizon
vanish the wall e z
round harbor
yeah i was gonna vanish vendetta the wall
but idk i didnt think id get full value
next time im gonna do that
lost horizon
i'm actually a baddie, i finally got good shoulders and pseudo scuffed the first 3 bosses
round harbor
still got an 87 with massive scuffing vendetta, but yeah aint high enough for me
lost horizon
somehow managed to parse well despite it
didn't 2nd pot champs, completely wasted my first vanish on jadefire, and didn't 2nd pot the right time on grong
still all 95+ somefuckinghow
round harbor
niceu
strange python
Anyone know how often kimbul trink procs?
lost horizon
really wish i hadn't fucked them up though, probably could've ranked on champ/grong at least
lost horizon
GCB too strong
lost horizon
really? shit's strong af
cold horizon
I too like to make objectively poorer decisions in my gearing.
round harbor
eh its not a poor decision
if you doont get full uiptime its not better than other
its also currently worse/in the margin of error of my current plume
white basalt
I find my dps is better with glad medallion tbh
round harbor
its the same thing as plume
bleak spoke
I need to get a plumage
I’ve loved galecallers for so long but I don’t think it’s a tenable situation I keep losing casts to dumb shit
pastel vault
ya the sockets on those trinkets are too strong
bleak spoke
set bonus to 27k i think
pastel vault
in M+ that crit is really nice tho
bleak spoke
but that would require MY GUILD NOT HAVING 15 WIPES ON GRONG RECLEAR AND A KILL WITH ME EVASION TANKING
WTF
civic palm
_>"
pastel vault
Ive been trained to press evasion when my cheat death randomly procs
so many times random aggro lul
happened today too on jadefire
humble crane
my gcb sims like 130 higher than my plumage, I use plumage (currently on M Jaina prog) just cause its not better if you have to step out for even half a second XD
- its just fire and forget
sims vs reality, amirite
echo cargo
no loot 5 weeks of reclear 🤔
lament dove
got a socketed ring from weekly chest, 50 dps upgrade to my socketed 385 ring GG
I think I just put crit gem in it and use it for m+
lament dove
seriously, this is a new level of incredible, I got an upgrade and I wish it was rather a vendor item...
lost horizon
@strange python try simming with MA
strange python
@lost horizon planned but didn't have enough iterations
strange python
ty
umbral fiber
2 SS over 2 DD in Myth+ ?
real bay
lost horizon
Tbf you have like DD and NP in there @strange python
lost horizon
Gotchya
strange python
slice is for outlaw imo
lost horizon
If that's what you're gonna be playing for M+ yeah
strange python
don't have enough azerite to play both
lost horizon
Reforge cost is more reasonable than it was in uldir at least
lost horizon
That... Seems off
strange python
yeah.
strange python
yep
simple rivet
hi all. I pretty much play outlaw exclusively, but was wondering if there was a general consensus for best azerite pieces for sin?
strange python
worldly iron
almost 23k 
simple rivet
raid
lost horizon
Pure ST is pretty straightforward for raid
worldly iron
you pretty much want DD, NP or TC for single target (or one TTK with cephalohide jacket)
lost horizon
But in reality SS gets you higher parses on most bosses
spark oyster
@strange python why SoB on chest ? There's catalyst on that piece iirc
and gutripper on shoulders
strange python
gutripper is better ye
spark oyster
so is catalyst
simple rivet
I want to play sin more, but my outlaw gear is so much more optimized. I'm simming almost 27k single target in outlaw
still canopy
nub question: Swords for assa ? i have a 405 dagger and a 410 & 405 swords for outlaw - how could i make it work?
midnight creek
what is the best trait setup for assa m+??
lost horizon
In practice you'll generally see better numbers on pure ST as sin @simple rivet
still canopy
@strange python i thought swords were a legit option for offhand?
strange python
no
still canopy
well shit ^^ ty thou
simple rivet
We're locking out on m mekka next week. I think if there's anytime to go sin its gotta be this fight
lost horizon
I'd recommend it there yeah
Outlaw is punished far more by downtime
Andmekka has a lot of downtime
simple rivet
Yea
midnight creek
what is the best trait setup for assa m+??
lost horizon
You can ease up on eb for like KR/ToS tbh
vast forum
More ss or ttk depends on key lvl, affixes, grp comp etc
golden relic
https://gyazo.com/2a81901666c679ea8a51e46bf4117428 actual upgrade in chest
bleak spoke
Speed pog
strange python
What would you guys think this week about Traits? It is teaming so you want EBs but it is Tyranical you want ST. I was thinking either just go 3xEB and blast mobs in big pulls and have time.on bosses. Or go 3xTTK and blast bosses. Hmm
bronze kelp
as its tyrannical @midnight creek you might wanna got 2EB 2TTK 2SS or even 3TTK 2EB 1SS, if you got all those pieces
strange python
teeming tyran means everything is gonna die really fast
vast forum
Teeming tyra
strange python
that's what I meant
vast forum
I would go outlaw this week 
bronze kelp
ttk build is a classical pseudo sub build
worldly iron
imma roll some more 2 EB, 2 SS and 2 TTK this week 
strange python
Ye that is not happening ;)
lost horizon
Nelf makes SS a lot more appealing
bronze kelp
playing without ttk would result in terrible st dmg
but nearly nobody plays alliance ^^ so nelf racial is not that important to look at XD
vast forum
Not really
lost horizon
You can do fine on ST without ttk
bronze kelp
you can, but with ttk you can do even better
lost horizon
Also, meld is busted
bronze kelp
depends on key level
on a 3 30 fight is less i guess
i would drop off all SS traits
but goin 3EB 3SS is not optimal I would say
vast forum
Ss used to be overvalued but now it's as if it's being undervalued
bronze kelp
so with a 2EB 2TTK 2SS build you should be really fine
lost horizon
Yeah fr
bronze kelp
so you got the best out of both worlds
vast forum
It still provides strong dps on both st and aoe
lost horizon
3eb 3ss is fine
bronze kelp
sure its fine
vast forum
Ss is technically also a prio target trait
bronze kelp
and you will do tons of dmg with 3eb 3ss
vast forum
Just garrote the important targets
bronze kelp
but depends always on the key level you run
strange python
I'll just go 2x2x2 then. That is what I was thinking anyway
bronze kelp
the higher they key, the longer the mobs live, the less value SS has
vast forum
Even on high keys
lost horizon
Meld makes it skyrocket
bronze kelp
i never said SS is weak
vast forum
Trash doesn't last much longer than garrote
bronze kelp
i only said, that there is a better option than a 3SS build
bronze kelp
you will always get higher overall dmg with 3eb 3ss on the dungeon thats for sure. but dmg != speed of key
vast forum
Depends on your group
bronze kelp
and the question is, what your group needs
lost horizon
It's not like SS doesn't provide good priority dmg too
bronze kelp
if you got 2 blast AoE classes, you dont need another one
the prio dmg of SS only combines with exsang an a lot of haste
lost horizon
Sin's AoE value is not having to spend CDs for it
Yeah, just play exsang
Haste doesn't have to be insane for it to do well
bronze kelp
no
vast forum
Mastery scaling with ss is insane on multitarget
bronze kelp
but, if you have a prio target list, your stuck with SS
vast forum
Just garrote the priotarget
bronze kelp
on a ttk build you can easily switch targets if nessecary
lost horizon
Yeah I don't really understand
vast forum
It's a ton of dmg
bronze kelp
if you need to even out mobs hp, you got a way better value out of ttk
lost horizon
Garrote the high health
bronze kelp
if you garrote 3 targets the prio target value of SS shrinks, cause you cant extend empowered garrote anymore on you first prio target
you see the limits of ss? thats why im not the biggest fan anymore
but im still playin with sometimes 2x2x2 build, cause you got the best value out of two worlds
lost horizon
You've made one point
I don't see it tbh
Just build based around what you need
SS is good, ttk is also good
Just in different contexts
If you're playing a Nelf though, you should probably go with SS more
bronze kelp
you can triple garrote prio targets, then rupture for energy reg, and always switch easily targets without being depended on stealthed garrote availability
sure maybe nelf gains way more value due to melt, but thats not the point exactly
lost horizon
It's not like you have to be glued to a target if you have SS?
bronze kelp
im talking of the general point
lost horizon
Just swap
bronze kelp
no, you are not tied to that target, but your prio target dmg is tied to the target, you cant switch if something else get higher prio
lost horizon
So bolstering
bronze kelp
for example
bronze kelp
or you got a prio target list cause of raging
lost horizon
That's a good context to play ttk, where it may prove more useful
You're still not convincing me that ttk >> SS overall
warm drift
The higher the key the more value gains ttk i think
lost horizon
They both have their strength
bronze kelp
sure, they have
and both are really good
im only saying that the combination 2ttk 2ss is the best optiion in my opinion
lost horizon
Okay
bronze kelp
maybe 3 ttk on bosltering weeks
surreal cosmos
What is the go to Talent in the last Row iwth 2 SS - 2 TTK - 2EB's ?
bronze kelp
with that build you go TB and PB
patent topaz
my team has officially stopped raiding mythic RIP, maybe I can play good games now
onyx rock
Vampire Bloodlines 2 Hype
strange python
#off-topic for sure
onyx rock
apply as a moderator willow
strange python
you first
strange python
Nice one! :)
shell zealot
What is the highest simming patchwerk rogue dps out there?
strange python
All I know is that Døg Sims very high. I sim 27,278 So that is also very high I guess 🤔 👌
lament dove
today I went from 408 to 410 and gained 50 dps
slowly but surely
fair blaze
Slowly to the top ; )
onyx rock
brisk forge
415 and ”only 26k” must optimize your gear norr 😉
royal lantern
i mean
getting higher then 26k is just getting sockets on everything
gotta sacrifice more childs too rngesus for that
brisk forge
Nah, only got 2 sockets as 413 and sim almost 27k zD
strange python
I don't have sockets on almost anything. I mean I have 4 sockets and still sim +27k
Lol 2 sockets. I though 4 was bad :P
brisk forge
Yeah the rng isnt on my side
strange python
Trinkets and OP 3rd ring trait ;)
night vale
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4gdjWKoAid6N33w6LFrGkn
Feelsbadman.... i can only dream of 27k
shell zealot
I score 25.6k at 408, not bad i guess, still using 400 trinkets and 400, ring, cloak and belt
night vale
idk why im simming so low... i guess my azerite traits are not the best
worldly iron
25.5k is pretty fine though 
I sim around the same with 410 equipped, loot hasn't been very nice to me
worldly iron
that one took forever for me as well 
only got it because a DH guildie, who rolled higher than me, passed it to me instead
night vale
like ive killed it 10 times... bonus rolled it every time.... got every leather wearer in the guild who would trade me it if they could and still no head
slender citrus
umbral fiber
NP is pretty good if u stack it
glossy shoal
When you're doing Jaina prog with 400 daggers :^)
bronze kelp
at least not a bad day 😉
bronze kelp
good for sub AoE XDDD
vestal wren
Socket >425
bronze kelp
thats for sure
plain thistle
ring without socket 🤢
bronze kelp
still maintaining 7 sockets on my gear 😃
sullen pagoda
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pSG92iWegesnjTP3ePDnqj yeah my 405 ring with basically same stats sims more
10/10 game design
bronze kelp
wait until they introduce WF/TF sockets
sullen pagoda
they are perfect for dungeon slice but m+ sin until outlaw gets nerfed is yikes
bronze kelp
m+ assa is still not bad
bronze kelp
sure, outlaw has the better stand, but if you dont enjoy outlaw you still can do very high dungeons with assa
but blizz is not interested in balancing m+ atm
sullen pagoda
only spec id put ahead of sin from melee is WW monk and maybe DH
and even then u always want atleast one rogue so i guess sin is ahead of those too xd
bronze kelp
maybe after MDI we get so adjustments
sullen pagoda
MDI is cutting edge, they will play the best class even if its better by 0.5% so not the best statistic to go by
I bet they end up nerfing unholy even tho their usage on actual live keys is very limited
bronze kelp
but its the point where m+ gets public and everyone has a look at it
sullen pagoda
but they look good when top m+ players slam "low keys" aka 18s
coarse quartz
If you watch Morningwind play assassination in m+ he does really good numbers on trash and bosses. It's definitely viable in higher keys.
strange python
I mean they are
marble hemlock
just because it has high numbers, doesnt make it op
strange python
they just aren't broken to the point where other classes suck
that's the real misconception
marble hemlock
people just look at the details and think "wow, 200k on a pull, thats broken!"
timid cloud
They all have different strengths & weaknesses.
marble hemlock
dps isnt all that matters. for highkeys its actually one of the least important metrics
assa is more than viable for keys, both on the low and high-end
and for a handful of keys its better than outlaw
rigid mango
For this week what'd your optimal az set up be @marble hemlock ? I know it's a super general question but I'd love to see how close I could get
marble hemlock
i run 3ttk 2eb 1ss rn
would prefer to swap out 1 EB for 1SS
or get ss+blightborne on shoulders
but goraktul eludes me 😦
rigid mango
Goraktul 
Aight well ty
What keys'd you place sin higher than outlaw, esp with that set up?
vast forum
You would go down to 1eb?
marble hemlock
kingsrest, temple, motherlode are assa favoured
vast forum
Siege too i assume
rigid mango
So ST shit
vast forum
For priotarget dmg
marble hemlock
or prio
rigid mango
Ah ok
marble hemlock
its less about where assa is better, cause assa is good everywhere
its more about where outlaw is bad
kr/temple dont have the packsize to make outlaw shine
rigid mango
Ye, I'm just scared of galv
marble hemlock
and motherlode is too much trash back to back, so you run out of BF charges
marble hemlock
siege has historically been a terrible assa dungeon
rigid mango
vast forum
Why?
marble hemlock
because its mostly spotter shenanigans
and the bosses suck for assa
we dont have long-lasting CDs, so on first boss only 2 bomb-debuffs will be covered by vendetta, and only 1 for exsanguinate/TB
vast forum
I would assume the priotarget on the commanders would favor it over outlaw
Guess not...
marble hemlock
2nd boss jumps away all the time
assa is still fine, but its the worst assa dungeon for sure
outlaw has prio as well
vast forum
True
strange python
So Gorak is good for M+? I use Phantom with EB TTK and Op