assassination

[covert crag]

Wait holy shit internal bleeding works with venomous wounds

[hexed sail]

do you rather min max around evenom buff or elaborate planing ?

[dusky moon]

Anyone got a good working WA for the shroud of concealment?

[vestal wren]

https://wago.io/S17rjKruX

that wago webhook is so big O.o

[dusky moon]

does not work

okay, i guess I need to mess with it

does announce last 5 seconds

[vestal wren]

yes

[civic palm]

and yeah the preview embeds from WAGO are GIANT now O _O

[vital haven]

grappling hook drive by sapping mobs is cooler than anything in sin #CMV

[idle vigil]

@hexed sail EP

[bleak spoke]

IB kidney is your strongest finisher outside of Tb window @covert crag

[atomic saddle]

Should I rather aim for 3x SS and 2x EB or 3x EB and 2x SS?

[potent dew]

depends entirely on the dungeon and even the mob count in the pulls you're doing

if you're doing big dick pulls like 5 or more mobs then 3x EB

but like 4 or less mobs per pull 3x ss and then EB

[lyric galleon]

Master Poisoner or Elaborate Planning for M+?

[civic palm]

EP

[atomic saddle]

alright thx @potent dew

[lyric galleon]

@civic palm why is it better?

[civic palm]

Because Master Poisoner is only Deadly Poison damage, and EP is a global modifier.

[lyric galleon]

That means Master Poisoner is never good for any bracket.

[civic palm]

Correct.

[lyric galleon]

Raiding and pvp I always do EP

[civic palm]

Until we get something that modifies the damage that DP does, or adds DP DMG to something, it will be in a pretty close second.

[atomic saddle]

With 3x SS and Reaping, I garrote 3 times and then rupture up to how many targets until I start spamming FoK?

[cobalt gyro]

If MP worked on the NP trait I'd imagine it'd be quite good tbh

[civic palm]

MP is already pretty close.

If it worked with Poison Bomb it might win as well > _>

for M+

[cobalt gyro]

Weird it says "poisons" but doesn't actually affect all poisons

[civic palm]

Doesn't it state something like "weapon poisons"?

[cobalt gyro]

Possibly

[civic palm]

It does make crippling better, but... ye.

[hollow stone]

And leeching!

[atomic saddle]

Is it worth to delay Toxic Blade to first refresh rupture and pool energy so you get the maximum number of envenoms into toxic blade?

so it delays like 7-8 sec but you dont have to refresh rupture during TB and get 100% EB uptime+maximum number of envenoms

[golden relic]

No

Just refresh like normal

Tb on cd

U can pool for envenoms in tb but not delay it

[atomic saddle]

Is it worth to refresh rupture before pandemic when you see TB coming up in 8 sec and then pool energy for maximum EB uptime and Envenom dumps?

[golden relic]

No

Just refresh in the tb window

[atomic saddle]

I see... pve is not allowing smart plays anymore. Just use everything on cd #enjoybfa

thanks bro

[golden relic]

Np

[atomic saddle]

With MA talented, ravenholdt.net says Garrote -> Mutilate -> Rupture -> Vendetta -> Vanish -> Toxic Blade -> Mutilate till 4+ CP -> Envenom -> Mutilate till 4+ CP -> Envenom...
Would'nt it be better to delay the Vanish until you have 4+ CP and then Vanish -> Envenom -> Mutilate (what will most likely crit) -> Envenom (still with MA up)? So that you get 2x Envenom into TB+MA buffs?

[fierce sinew]

how does sin perform compared to outlaw in mythic raiding?

I know outlaw rogues are in higher damage percentiles but idk how much of that is padding

[zenith gust]

guys, does anyone play the echoing blades / hidden blades build for m+? do you use FoK for ST at all?

[fierce sinew]

I tried one point of echoing blade, it accounted for roughly 10% of my aoe damage.

in M+

[zenith gust]

i just did this WM but was using CT instead of HB, 3xEB

2. EB and 3. FoK

but i dont know how to play it with hidden blades talent

[fierce sinew]

so you had 3 eb?

[zenith gust]

y

[fierce sinew]

would you say it was worth it?

[zenith gust]

idk, havent played my assa for like 2 months

went to outlaw

and i hate it, so i'm back to assa

more fun

i remember i used to play only 1 EB

and probably 3 SS

now i was playing 3 EB and 1 SS

cuz thats the best i can get out of my 4 415 pieces

[formal sable]

is 3xNP really better than 3xDD in single target?

[lone junco]

just use them both

[carmine moth]

so is poision bomb basically back to its old rng ways but if ur lucky ur a god

[lone junco]

big packs. stacked tightly dumping cps. = pbomb

CT is better aoe though

[outer ruin]

If my guild doesn't have a frost mage for H Stormwall, should I go MP for add slows?

[lone junco]

I wouldnt. there are other classes with a slow

[violet sonnet]

neither

[inland stump]

Hey guys, I have looked up quite a few trinkets and which I should pursue, I have narrowed it down to 2, mind giving me feedback on my choice? Its Galecallers Boon and Harlans Dice, I have simmed both of them and compared to Kimbuls Claw and Lustrous Golden Plumage.

[steep obsidian]

boon is kind of annoying as hell to use in a real situation

in fact almost unuseable on some fights

[eager haven]

I’d go with plume and dice

[steep obsidian]

^

[inland stump]

ow rly?

[eager haven]

^ boon is annoying af

[steep obsidian]

boon is over budget because you have to stand in the small circle for its duration tog et its buff

[unborn gate]

I love boon, but Plume is alot more practical

[steep obsidian]

which you cannot do a lot of the time

[inland stump]

I kinda dislike Kings Rest thats the problem but thing is, both my trinkets are 400 and even the 380 version of all the trinkets I just mentioned are upgrades

[eager haven]

Boon is great if your target is a tree

[unborn gate]

You can't pop Boon on CD, you have to wait untill you know you won't be moving for a while.

[inland stump]

thats true

[unborn gate]

It works on bosses like Blockade and Grong

[inland stump]

also, I recently looked up some logs and which talents various top dps had in my ilvl range, around 397, almost all of them hade elaborate planning on the first row. I used Master Poisoner before, also simmed the talents and EP is better according to that, do u guys agree aswell?

[unborn gate]

Yes, EP is better-

[inland stump]

Cuz atleast for me, after getting to my dps peak 20-22k or so with cds(still practising), it drops off

and EP seems to help getting it ''frozen''

so I can still IF I get Galecallers, have it in my bag for bosses with low movement

or just plan to use it but again as someone mentioned u can't pop it off cd and other trinkets could be better

[eager haven]

Yes

[inland stump]

alright thanks

I have looked up the rotations, talents and traits, and when looking at logs and wow analyzer, I can get quite high parses but some encounters are quite bad, and its MOSTLY due to dot refresh failure, any way I can improve on that? I have compared to before refreshed the dot, regardless of the duration if I had to move away for a longer time, example given Grong robots, Conclave Raptors

Any more tips?

other than refreshing dots, I keep spamming envenoms in combination with toxic blade since I use that build

and popping vendetta and vanish off cd(i use subterfuge with shrouded suffocation)

[unborn gate]

Just keep in mind to keep your dots up

Even during TB

Always let the empowered Garotte run out before refreshing it

If you know adds are coming on Grong for example, refresh dots right before adds land

[inland stump]

Yea I sometimes have prio squeezing in envenoms during toxic blade but it has been leading to dps decrease

yea I have WA's for dots, cds so I do that as good as possible

yea I am doing that aswell, but still my dots can have like 70-80% uptime, guess it may be due to envenom greed during TB

I also read u can extend ur current rupture, doesn't matter with how many pts it is so thats something to keep in mind and then extend that rupture later on with a 5pt rupture

[unborn gate]

5PT rupture is 7 sec, 4 is 5sec I think

[inland stump]

what what do u mean with that now sorry

[unborn gate]

You can safely extend a 5 pt rupture at 7 sec remaining

[midnight flower]

The more ruptures you have up. The more energy you regen. Always dot up what you can

[inland stump]

ahh yea, the WAs is flashing

[midnight flower]

In m+ you just spread rupture around and blast with fan

[inland stump]

ahh got that too, its so fun to get 30k dps with 2 buttons xD

[midnight flower]

Haha

[unborn gate]

fokfokfokfokfokfokfok

[midnight flower]

Outlaw rogues trip out in m+ when you hit them with the flex

[inland stump]

but would u say its worth to use rupture for example it has 10 sec left, and I know I will be gone for longer to just use a rupture regardless of pts to just have the rupture on for longer even if it drops off cuz I can't hit boss?

[unborn gate]

If you know you will leave the boss then you need to refresh the dot yes

[inland stump]

I haven't tried the 2 other specs because I like Assassin and also because I still have quite a bit to learn from the spec, its also so forgiving while doing mistakes

alright

all the stuff u have told me(which I appreciated 110%)I know already, seems that then just my trinkets suck and that Im a bit messy with my reapplying

[unborn gate]

Practice makes perfect!

[inland stump]

also if u wonder my stats, I have just over 30% master, between 25-30 crit due to the gelbin trinket, 17 haste I think and around 5-7 vesatility

ow Idd Tarogg

also on the pin, up in the top right corner, its says general info and mentions weap enchants, can someone explain that a bit better for me? The enchants I have on my weaps atm are simmed.

[unborn gate]

One haste ench and one crit enchant

Or if you're rich af you can switch enchants depending on which secondary stat benefits you the most at that moment :p

If you sim your statweights

[inland stump]

I think I have haste and then mastery or crit

when I simmed stat weights, its all pretty balanced between 2-3

but seems stuff that gives me haste are always upgrades since thats the top stats i ''need''

[unborn gate]

Yeah, I'd just use Haste and Crit enchants.

[inland stump]

I will have a look at that when I get ingame again, or also, I can just sim my weapons now with crit, haste and mastery enchants

ty for explaining it 😃

[unborn gate]

No worries, just don't use two of the same enchant

[inland stump]

alright, ty for that tip aswell 😃

since I use subterfuge with shrouded suffocation I should pop both vanish off cd whenever(regardless of a garrote being active at that time(not buffed)and then vendetta aswell?

[unborn gate]

Yup!

Well in the opener I'd wait to pop vanish until the first Empowered Garotte has run out :p

[inland stump]

alright, cuz I have waited for the not buffed garrote to drop cuz it felt like a ''waste'' but then I thought if I use vanish and pop a buffed garrote I would still do more dmg during that time and then use it earlier than if I would have waited, plus it gives me a pt and doesn't take too much enerngy

ofc 😛

I have to time it better, to refresh when its 1-2 sec left

i have been doing that around 5 or so

I have the WAs for dots and cooldowns, can't find one for vanish tho

[unborn gate]

Always let the empowered garotte run out before refreshing!

[inland stump]

Got it 😃

[unborn gate]

No matter what your WA tells you 😉

Mine lies to me

[inland stump]

oki, well it doesn't account the buffed garrote

I guess

if its regular, doesn't matter I guess?

then rupture isn't a waste since its extended

[unborn gate]

Nah regular you can refresh

[inland stump]

yea thats why the WA is flashing cuz it doesn't take buffed garrote into account

[unborn gate]

It's that a normal garotte overrides the empowered one

[inland stump]

yea

and thus less dps

but atm, when I do rotation on dummy, ofc not to take into super consideration, my dps goes to peak at 22k I think dps and after a while, 3min, drops to 16-17k with 397 i Lvl and meh trinkets, how would u say it is? especially the minimum

I know its different on different encounters, but want a general idea

[unborn gate]

Should be pretty standard, try to keep EP up as much as possible

[inland stump]

ahh with envenom spam definitely

alright thanks

if for example in in TB phase, and have EP up swell, but at that time have 2 combo pts, is it still worth using envenom?

[unborn gate]

You'd be better off using Mutilate

[inland stump]

alright, so I shouldn't be greedy then cuz I heard 2-3 envenom is optimal

[unborn gate]

Well I could be wrong, I'm no expert or theorycrafter but personally I don't use Envenom below 4 CP

[inland stump]

alright 😃 regardless of wrong or not, u are def more experienced than me

I can also try, cuz I have tried different rotations

for example being greedy with envenoms

we have covered pretty much the most important stuff, anything else I should keep in mind? I also play B Elf, and getting told on WoWanalyzer that I should use my racial more, cuz I barely use it in boss fights or ever at all, is it then for the 15 energy u get? cuz sometimes Im just off with energy for that last 4-5 pts envenom

[unborn gate]

Yeah use the racial, would be a waste not to

Other than that, learn the fights and adapt

[inland stump]

yea cuz its free anyways xD

alright, thanks buddy 😃

[unborn gate]

Don't waste energy and pool when you need to

[inland stump]

yes, I am quite decent at that

90+ efficiency most of the time

[unborn gate]

TB coming up? Pool some energy

[inland stump]

yea, doing that too 😄

[unborn gate]

I'm bad at that ;D

[inland stump]

can be good to combo with vendetta

[unborn gate]

Always use TB on CD

[inland stump]

but the cds doesn't align well sadly 😦

yea ofc, but still its easier to get dmg in during vendetta but u can't all the time sadly

before I go, anything else you wanna add?

[unborn gate]

Nothing I can think of! 😄

[inland stump]

alright, thank you 😃 have a good night/day 😃 iff you are on EU, add TheR7(battle tag is #2498)

if u don't mind ofc

[stone crescent]

Should we be incorporating envenom/elaborate planning as part of our rotation? Like not letting envenom fall off or something?

Or just follow the whole use tb on cd, keep bleeds up, etc

[mint peak]

You should be pooling energy so that as many of your mutilates as possible are done during Envenom and EP buff.

[robust lake]

!weakauras

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[tired thistle]

Is it better to stack More than one Echoing Blades for M+ or jsut get one and call it good?

[grim sable]

all of them

stack 'em all

[prisma beacon]

depends on the dungeon / pulls / and your grp

[worldly iron]

and affixes

[shell zealot]

Stack 3 eb with 3 ss, wit CT=> beat outlaw on reapinh and any pack with more then 3 adds

But this is pretty much for 15+ wear adds stay up a bit longer, oh and after having bleeds, ep, envenom buff, spam FoK(over capping) until u need to apply finishers, and for any pack with over 5 adds just constantly reapply 5-6cp CT

Oh, been thinking of going Deeper strategem, in M+ anyone have exp with it in higher keys? like how much Haste would i need to compatative with Vigor? (i would be going a heavey bleed build with CT, and traits would be 3eb,3ss)

i havent tried that either

for now HB is simming lowest

like 2k lower on dungeon slice

PB is still simming best for me, though this week FH, ML and a few more wear cheese with CT(130k on reaping packs)

im more interested in over all for M+

though i dont slack at st either

THis is my favorite Build for M+ this week, works for most: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ux7swFZ2jDoGJCBJN5tnZE

same for msot cases xD

in my case most openers on packs look like: 3xgarrote, Rupture, FoK, rupture, fok rupture, FoK, envenom and spammFOk and envenoms

i need better helm xD(400)

im such a scrub

i still dont sim using taelent comperison or top gear

i jsut run 30 sims at a time.. fml..

i gotta learn to use the talent comparioson tool too..

ill say! 😄

also feel bad for running so many sims..

xD

it is still highest use for AOE and ST

but if u a high mastery build it might not work

im still 18% haste 41% mast 25% crit on st and still GCB simms highest

yes that move restircition makes u have to wiat on it or loose the buff

or become a cybernetic organism, living tissue over a metla endoskeleton..

[bronze kelp]

@shell zealot your suggested build with 3 eb 3 ss + ct is a bit weird, especially on high keys. SS loses so much value on long living mobs + you got no real prio target dmg. Consindering a TTK setup would be of more use in most groups.

also no one is playing CT anymore

[shell zealot]

i have done it on anything over 17

[bronze kelp]

sure u get high overall dps

[shell zealot]

so im not that pro, to know what works at that lvl

[bronze kelp]

but thats not a guaranteed better timed key

[shell zealot]

oh yeah ur st ends up being trash to if the fight is long and ur not ceribral in rotation

[bronze kelp]

u only apply SS out of stealth, so after 18 secs SS trait is useless on AoE

[blazing kayak]

I wanna start raiding as sin, is there certain % I want for certain stats? I was told haste crit is best but when I summed myself I had like 45% mastery and low haste/crit

[bronze kelp]

TTK has an overall good value and outvalues SS at a point

[blazing kayak]

Also is outlaw good in raid

Or only opulence

[bronze kelp]

assa is the go to in raid in most cases

but not with high crit

you need a lot of haste for ST

most top players in raid play with about 22-25% crit

[shell zealot]

this is my highest ST sim: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ccsaqEaaSDWVLcY9jffCX3

25%crit, 18% haste, 41% mast

[bleak spoke]

Actually crit haste and mastery end up being somewhat equal with mastery edging out usually

[shell zealot]

if ur going for MA use mastery

if ur subterfuge go haste

basically

for me, thats what asks for different wieghts

if i spec MA, my mastery is 3.15

[blazing kayak]

In what cases would I go subter or master, if I’m running triple shroud go subter? What traits would I want for master assassin? DD, TC, NP?

[shell zealot]

if igo subterfuge, my haste gois to 3.25

[bleak spoke]

If you run any SS you go subt

Otherwise it’s a dead trait

[shell zealot]

yeah

dont touch anything else but Subterfuge even if u have 1 ss

which means, u main haste

if ur a DD+NPer

u wanna go for more mastery

since both dd and np benefit great from it

[bleak spoke]

I think you should just sim it tbh

[shell zealot]

that too

^

[bleak spoke]

If any of the three stats drop under a certain point that’s not determinate any can rise over the others

Completely relative to gear trinkets azerite etc

In short

[shell zealot]

agreed i learned that the hard way xD

[blazing kayak]

Well tbh still have prty shitty stats, I just wasn’t sure which would be best for raid. Alotta sin rogues run different stuff

[bleak spoke]

Like I never gem anything but crit cuz multispec but that’s like 50 dps behind for me in st so literally whatever

[shell zealot]

for me master>haste atm

[bleak spoke]

If I’m gonna hit 27k it’s cuz I’ll pick up set bonus or gorak tul’s

[shell zealot]

but if i change a talent and 1 trait it changes so simming will be the best

[bleak spoke]

Otherwise no matter what I do I’ll be mid 26

Just the way the turntables turn

[shell zealot]

if anyone got a sec and wanna check my simc, and see if u can suggest an improvement(other then changing the chest xD) would be lovely and much appriciated! 😃

itjsut a few rows higher, dont wanna link and spam again 😛

[bleak spoke]

Sim with mastery ench

And see if that nets you some gains

I play crit mastery ench in dungeon and haste mastery in raid

[shell zealot]

i simmed both mast gems and hast and mast better

[bleak spoke]

Not gems

Weapon enchants

[shell zealot]

aaaahhh

instead of haste?

[bleak spoke]

It’s got crit on

[shell zealot]

or both master on both weapons

[bleak spoke]

All three

[shell zealot]

aaaahhhh

even the ring enchants?>??

[bleak spoke]

No

Masterful navigation and quick navigation

[shell zealot]

can i do that with out havent to actually enchant again?(like can raidbots changeit?)

[bleak spoke]

Yeh

Top gear

Let’s you pick

For both daggers

[shell zealot]

kk gonna check it now

[worldly iron]

check the box for it, pretty sure you have to do that

[strange python]

I have started to miss alot of my abilities. This might be something that has allways happened but the more I play and learn the more I notice it. Is this something that can be avoided?

[high siren]

get your hit cap

[vast forum]

What do you mean miss?

Abilities can't miss

Except, like, clouds in temple of sethrallis

[cobalt gyro]

if you're seeing "miss" it's most likely auto attacks unless it's something like ^

[vast forum]

Abilities can be parried though, and you can outplay that by standing behind the target

[strange python]

I have 5 CP I press Envenom. I heard the "Parry" metal clink sound. And I since I pooled I am pressing mutilate before I realize I am overcapping CP since the Envenom got parried

Exaclty

Sorry I should have written parry from the start. I mean parry not hit

[vast forum]

So don't stand in front of raid bosses

[cobalt gyro]

parry is pretty much only on raid bosses

[vast forum]

Also, don't spam

Press your envenom and wait for the global

[strange python]

Well I have to. Worldlagg.

[vast forum]

Unless you're in a lust/gcb/vendetta situation, you're not overcapping energy

[strange python]

And I am not standing infront of the bosses. That is why I was confused from the start. Side or the back allways

[vast forum]

Side can still be the front if it's <90°

[strange python]

Backside then. You know what I mean.

Not in the front 180°

[vast forum]

Well, either you are not where you think you are, or the game is lying to you

Choose one

And choose carefully

[cobalt gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/VrXp9kJ.png

past the red line can parry

give or take 🤷

[vast forum]

Pro paint skills

[cobalt gyro]

sharex

xd

[vast forum]

Almost as pro as the outlaw channel

[strange python]

Well neither. Since I still have 5 CP and I know I am behind. So... that is the whole point why I was confused... if I was standing to the side I would have been fine with it. Or if My UI was lying I would be fine with it aswell. But that is not the case and that it why I asked if anyone els had experienced it and if I could fix it

[golden relic]

I think the tol dagor paint yday was close to greatness

[vast forum]

Maybe boss turned to cast something

I didn't see the td yday, now i'm sad

[golden relic]

The how to open cells without getting aggro

[vast forum]

Can someone post it?

[solid nova]

I mean can you not post the log and we can see if anything funny happened on your parried TB?

Theres only a finite number of reasons

[vast forum]

There's 2

He stood in front of boss

Or he was behind but boss turned

[cobalt gyro]

i missed that paint

what was it

[solid nova]

Side or the back always

I'm gonna assume you werent as sideways as you thought

[cobalt gyro]

refer to image

[solid nova]

Exactly

[vast forum]

Also, richard, when do i get my green color for all the insight i provide while bored at work?

[solid nova]

202X

[vast forum]

Hmm

That's at most 10 years and 9 months

[vast forum]

I'll take it

[golden relic]

XD

[solid nova]

I mean

It definitely cleared up the positioning

So is a pass

[vast forum]

Pin it

[solid nova]

Low pin standards smh.

[vast forum]

People don't read the pins anyway

Might as well meme them a bit

[solid nova]

@strange python Have you got the log?

[strange python]

Unfortunately I don't at the moment. I'll try to get them. It was just very annoying and during the run I tried to place myself different but nothing worked. During our break I restarted Wow and then I did not have the issue anymore. I am 100% with you that it most likely was just me who fucked up. But since I have never seen it before and that it stopped after a restart. It felt like a Bugg where my characters location was not properly received by the wow servers. I have had this in M+ aswell with line of sight while I am in meelee. But ye. I'll try to get it up, just thought it was a rogue thing. Thanks

[tropic ocean]

maybe you were standing too much inside the boss?

[vague oyster]

As an outlaw that wants to try assassination, how does one learn the pacing? Outlaw is rather fast paced while Assassination is alot slower, but how do I know when to wait and when to use a skill?

But I feel like I go too fast through the rotation?

[worldly iron]

you wanna mutilate in the elaborate planning window, start by keeping that in mind I guess

[frigid briar]

Lyrion just spend energy when your going to overcap or when you have trinket procs, else stay 70% energy majority of the time

[worldly iron]

^ sounds p good

[frigid briar]

Try to get 3 envenoms during toxic blade

4 if lucky

2 mandatory

[vague oyster]

ok

Thanks

[frigid briar]

You could get an energy bar with sound ques to help but I find that harder to take the training wheels off

[valid kayak]

just watched your video about pooling yesterday @frigid briar and it helped me so much!

before i was just spamming mutilates

now i feel i was braindead lol

[frigid briar]

I mean theres more to it but its a good way to think about energy

After a little while the pacing just comes like muscle memory

If you have damage buffs. Spend energy. If not dont. Seems simple. Harder to put into practice to begin with especially for people whos been spamming keys for years

Most other games promote spamming keys

[vague oyster]

Yeah, thats the trouble I have aswell, outlaw works with spamming keys Assassination doesn't

[frigid briar]

Its an advantage though. Gives you some time to look at the situation around you more

[tropic ocean]

what helped me when starting out with new classes was these tell me when addon profiles

not the best but a very good start

[frigid briar]

I didnt even know that addon had profiles... I used to use it year ago before swapping to WA

[tropic ocean]

theres a maintained site that uses data from top logs iirc

[frigid briar]

Really?

[tropic ocean]

it was way more than sufficient to do 10s and clearing hc

yeah

basically used it whenever I started a new char till I had the muscle memory then switched to wa

[frigid briar]

I mean in that case you could also just use aethys rotation helper if thats the type of thing people learn new classes with

Not really checked any of them myself

[tropic ocean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thd0_FARreo

if you're interested

[vivid bone]

aethys rotation helper is called hero-rotation now

fyi

[modest jasper]

Ye, if you want to use sth. like that at least use HeroRotation. It's maintained by Aethys who turns out to be the APL maintainer, too, so he definitely knows his stuff.

It's quite frightenly good on Patchwerk tbh.

[vivid bone]

Yep, exactly that

[ionic arrow]

anyone else having problems with new elvui nameplates (especially the tab targeting)? I garrote one and when I try to tab target the next one in te grp trash I sometimes target a mob that is some meters away that I cant even hit and I loose the chance of my hitting my garrote

[mint peak]

I've had problems with their changes trying to see what I even have highlighted. Not even really sure what it is, they made them less obvious but also sometimes the thing I have targeted displays like it isn't targeted

[marble hemlock]

yes recanati. im having the same issue with tidyplates, friend of mine has KUI etc.

tab targeting is weird now, even in a pack of 3, you target mob1, tab and get mob2, tab again and get mob1 again

dont recall that ever happening before the patch

[vast forum]

Blizzard best company

[marble hemlock]

nameplates also move around way more often, theyre not as close as possible to their anchors anymore, and you can shuffle them around by moving your camera, instead of the stack-order being based on how close to the player the mobs are

ive tried basically everything and did not manage to fix it

[ionic arrow]

"tab targeting is weird now, even in a pack of 3, you target mob1, tab and get mob2, tab again and get mob1 again" yeah thats another issue that I have aswell

[marble hemlock]

but hey

you can do fun stuff like this

biggest offender for me is the fact that once the nameplates have stacked, they still keep swapping positions. that never happened prior to the patch

[frigid briar]

There was also reports of nameplates from elvui plummeting peoples FPS. Not me personally but I did have to remove the combo points and make changes after recent patch

[sharp gazelle]

i have a question - am i doing something wrong or is it normal that assassination feels a little slower than the other two specs?

[stuck knoll]

That's normal

[marble hemlock]

yeah, there seems to be a general behaviour towards nameplates overlapping, even with stacking enabled

so the moment they are a tiny bit too far away from another, they try to overlap again, which they are not allowed to, so they just reshuffle or some shit like that

its incredibly infuriating

and its not addon related, it still happens with standardUI nameplates

[lone junco]

"fix"

[marble hemlock]

just something we gotta get used to i guess, cause they cant help themselves but introduce new shitty useless cvars that screw shit over

had so many openers

where i only get 2 garrotes out

cause i tab and tab to the only mob thats not in melee, out of like 10 mobs

or i just tab back to the initial mob and get pandemic garrote on that, instead of 3 different targets

tabbing also prioritized mobs with a spotlight, so mobs that were casting were much easier to tab to than others

thats gone as well

just completely random which target you get

[lament dove]

so that's why opener garrotes felt weird lately...

sometimes I thought something got me out of stealth before first one or something

[vague oyster]

@marble hemlock How about skull targeting, If I use tab it usually picks the skull? Or is that just random good luck?

[marble hemlock]

there definitely was some internal prioritization when it came to tabbing

either marked targets, or mobs with a spotlight

well

tab used to generally prio targets that were closest to the player

[frigid briar]

Just create a mouse over garrotte macro for your opener if it helps (some people hate mouseover stuff)

[marble hemlock]

now it seems to choose a nameplate thats closest to the center between the character and the top of the screen

which generally is one thats not in melee

[frigid briar]

Might help with the tab issue

[bronze kelp]

mouseover stuff is terrible to get used to, but helpful anyway

[marble hemlock]

not really, since youre still playing around nameplates, and theres no logic to how nameplates stack anymore

[frigid briar]

Its a good idea for rupture. I agree but its like anything in WoW. Do it enough and it will come natural I guess

[marble hemlock]

used to be mob closest to you = nameplate closest to the player in a stack of nameplates

now you can just shuffle them around by moving camera a bit, or when a mob moves a little bit its nameplate suddenly moves to a different position and pushes all the other nameplates up/down

and theres no cvar to force the nameplate to stick closer to its anchor

this shouldnt be happening, basically

[frigid briar]

Isnt there a setting for spacing?

[marble hemlock]

not that im aware of

[frigid briar]

If you reduced it, might be better I dunno

[marble hemlock]

well, the problem is that the placement of other nameplates takes priority

[frigid briar]

Im not home to check currently

[marble hemlock]

so even if you enforce a spacing between nameplate/anchor, if theres another nameplate in between there, itll adjust the spacing

the moment you move that "blocking" nameplate to the side by shifting the camera

the other nameplate moves back closer to its anchor

so if i shifted camera in the pic above a bit

so the yellow mob would be further to the left

its nameplate wouldnt "cut off" the other 2 and they would move closer to their respective mob

and due to the skull/star nameplate constantly "trying" to move closer to their mobs, the moment they get the opportunity to do so they will, leading to a shuffling of nameplates

and its all caused by the new animation they introduced for nameplates that are moving, which is smoother than the previous one

basically this

[wary ice]

I use ElvUI and havent noticed any of the nameplate problems people have been mentioning since 815

Iunno if its me being oblivious elvui addressing that issue, or not using mouseovers

[marble hemlock]

well, its either only a handful of people noticing it who used nameplates extensively

or theres some setup or cvar-combination people used previously that just clashes with some of the new nameplate behaviour and then leads to the issues we see

seeing how I still need to re-adjust the motionspeed everytime i login, despite forcing it through multiple addons and enforcing cvars themselves via AIO

im just clueless at this point

[wary ice]

yikes

[marble hemlock]

why cvars arent being saved between sessions

[wary ice]

did you set them in Wow's equivlent of a config.ini?

[marble hemlock]

yes

[wary ice]

super weird

[marble hemlock]

ive added the console command to multiple addons

that are being loaded

it still defaults to 1

friends of mine have other cvars that they have to set every login cause they just default

i actually dont know a single game that resets cvars/graphical options with every major patch, except wow, and its infuriating

[cobalt gyro]

Gfx settings make sense to an extent but cvars is fucking annoying

[marble hemlock]

why does it make sense to overwrite the local config?

[cobalt gyro]

Graphics being reset makes sense if they make changes to whatever options are available, but definitely not with every patch

[marble hemlock]

yeah

and its annoying that some cvars are being kept, and others are being reset, so we dont even know which one are back to default and which ones were kept

unless you meticulously managed that before every patch

[dark crag]

Add in the pruning of options. Without some addons you can't even see the values that easy

[marble hemlock]

ye

in general i feel the UI badly needs an overhaul

[cobalt gyro]

Why do that when someone else already made an addon for it

[vestal wren]

i think blizz is fine with letting ui things be 3rd party

[elfin fossil]

Obviously

Otherwise they would've done something with it

[marble hemlock]

can they atleast not fuck with it every patch then?

i remember them letting addon-creators know in advance when changes to the api happened or when certain cvars were removed/no longer customizable

[vestal wren]

iirc their api/etc would need a lot of work but they dont have the time or dont want to put in effort to rework/fix it

[marble hemlock]

well

[dark crag]

Good thing is, i use most stuff at default values

[marble hemlock]

least they could do is not change things without mentioning it prior, or just resetting peoples setting all the time

[vestal wren]

you could potentially exploit the current api still, but it takes quite a effort for sth they might just break/forbit fast

[dark crag]

I learned a long time ago that fiddling with too many cvars only backfires

If i remember correctly i only changed stuff the default ui and the addon advancedinterface let me

[ripe nimbus]

My nameplates seem to act the same as before

[worldly iron]

assassination btw

[dark barn]

I see a lot of people play Blood elf for race for mythic plus...Reason why?

[mint peak]

AoE dispel is great and its a DPS gain when you don't have anything to purge

[marble hemlock]

1% crit is also nice

[lament dove]

how do you know they play BE for m+? maybe most just play because belf chicks

[marble hemlock]

most people play belf because the aoe silence in legion was by far the best and most important racial you could have for m+

the change to belf racial in BfA didnt really change much, theres still some dungeons where the dispel is nice, and theres no other racial that you "need" to have so most people just stuck with their belf and never switched to another horde race

[primal gazelle]

all other horde races are ugly

[dark barn]

Because i watch streams

[dawn root]

Other than TD, where does the racial help in m+?

[distant lava]

KR

on minions of zul

and you can use it to take off the cm in the miniboss rooms

boralus

the bostlering shout

temple

shrine

[worldly iron]

temple, shrine, general chat

[distant lava]

pretty much everywhere except atal

[primal gazelle]

waycrest

[worldly iron]

[distant lava]

yeah my bad i thought it was gonna be a short list

[primal gazelle]

BE master race

[worldly iron]

that wasn't specifically for you, I just meant this whole convo in general

[distant lava]

fite me

[golden relic]

thinking about going belf male

[worldly iron]

this is my turf, I play assassination

[wheat zealot]

Belf male stealth animations tho

[worldly iron]

wow-general

[sonic bridge]

You don't have to repeat uself 500 times 😃 @worldly iron

[strange python]

at how many targets do you spam FoK w/ 2x echoing blades?

[worldly iron]

clearly I do

[visual quartz]

male troll stealth, hes already crouching all the time

[wary ice]

@strange python do u mean "at how many targets do i fok > mut" or "at how many targets do i fok > finish"

[woeful wraith]

not sure if I have some settings wrong, trying to sim 6 bosses w/ 3ss 3eb set but continuing to say haste is best gem?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9pNHUnz8WV83UGahUpSdFw

[sour nymph]

outlaw or assassin this weeks affix

[plain thistle]

@woeful wraith I think you didnt selected other gems/enchants, every combination is with ring enchanted with haste 🤔

[stray pumice]

Treacherous Covenant stacks?

[woeful wraith]

ah, missed a checkbox lol

[plain thistle]

yes, every trait stacks, usually the damage/buff part, and not the proc % part 😃 @stray pumice

[stray pumice]

Was just checking cause sim says i should use 2 out of 3 i can have, Thanks 😄

[copper kestrel]

For M+, any advice on choosing between 3 EB/SS and adding TTK?

[lost horizon]

Ttk if your group needs priority dmg

[copper kestrel]

Which do I sac, EB?

[marble hemlock]

ye

[lost horizon]

SS gives priority dmg too so probably wanna keep that around

Esp if Nelf

[safe hedge]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

[heavy skiff]

😃

finaly

[lone junco]

that first tier have a Fok option?

Eb/Bbi?

[heavy skiff]

ss

dd/ss and Bbi /NP

[honest iris]

is dagger in the back actually good or just good in sims?

[fleet whale]

today was a lucky day, 410 haste mastery ring with a socket from the chest, and a 415 cephalohide from a chest roll

[fleet whale]

so those two replacements alone increased my sim by like 800 dps

[rapid token]

what cool mog weapons does everyone use?

[lost horizon]

Check out #transmog might find better answers

[rapid token]

i looked through and usually not very good imo

[muted jacinth]

trackers blade

[candid jasper]

What are people doing as sin at reaping time?

If I'm on my outlaw then great, I can compete, but I typically tend to just be lower than the damn tank!

Granted, our M+ team last night was a prot warrior

[marble hemlock]

garrote 2-3 high-hp lost/tormented souls, spam fok, when youre about to starve energy just rupture a mob thats about to die for a big energy refund

repeat

[candid jasper]

Right, but what kind of damage are you doing? I mean I can do about 50k dps, sure

[marble hemlock]

if you play ttk, you can help make sure that the lost/tormented souls die about at the same time as risen ones, or atleast much faster

depends on the size of the reaping wave

[candid jasper]

but like, our ret and ele were doing about 150k dps each

[marble hemlock]

if the reaping is big enough, you can do that as assa

[candid jasper]

Now I appreciate as sin, you can't typically do that?

oh?

[marble hemlock]

but its not really necessary

esp since some classes actually have to use cooldowns for those numbers, and you shouldnt really use major cooldowns for reaping

the reaping mobs arent scary or lethal, they just eat up time, and how long youre busy with reaping isnt based on how quickly you aoe-blast the risen souls, but how long the lost/tormented ones will survive. so even if youre just 50k dps, if that 50k dps is mostly on the mobs that survive the longest, you did more to make the key go faster than some 150k padlord

[mint peak]

Ret Pally saves his wings to do those numbers and then does pretty shit damage for 2 mins after. You can do similar DPS without popping anything assuming you have 3xEB

[candid jasper]

I can go EB, but I figured that if I were to come as sin and spec for AoE, why not go as outlaw?

[marble hemlock]

exactly

[candid jasper]

So I typically go sin for weeks where I need to do damage on a single target

[marble hemlock]

you should play 1, maybe 2, to be able to keep up on aoe, but assas purpose in keys isnt to AoE

it fills some other important roles

like prio damage, control through silences etc.

[candid jasper]

Typically I run 3x SS and 1x EB

[mint peak]

Well you have 6 trait slots. I don't see the point of playing Assass outside of KR or ToS without multiple EB traits right now if you care about optimization.

[candid jasper]

RNGLords determine our fate here though!

[pulsar fossil]

Is it worth stacking 3x NP traits if able to?

For raiding*

[topaz axle]

all the top logs have 3xNP 3xDD

[pulsar fossil]

Aight f it then, gonna run 3 tonight and see how it feels

[candid jasper]

Jack, is that with master assassin?

[topaz axle]

yea

[candid jasper]

I basically need gorak tul's mantle!!

I really hate this RNG lol

[lyric galleon]

@pulsar fossil I have NPx3 and DDx2 and burst in raids around 43k at 402 ilvl

[pulsar fossil]

I've just switched to NPx3, DDx2 and 1xSS, already bursting higher

[lyric galleon]

Awesome!

[pulsar fossil]

Sims said ttk was better than SS but it feels clunky to play

[pale agate]

I'm surprised, SS always sims higher than TTK for me

[copper kestrel]

I actually really like MA (and sims higher) but I feel like there's so much multi-target in BoD fights SS/Sub ends up out-performing

[pulsar fossil]

SS feels a lot better to play during the opener and vanish imo

[lyric galleon]

SS is better in M+ as a whole.

[pulsar fossil]

Yeah I went dungeon slice and it's real nice to play

Stupidly stayed ST for a lot of M+ previously, was still alright but not as smooth

[lyric galleon]

But I raid with another sass rogue that only plays M+ build and I destroy him on bosses.

[empty badge]

Whats the perfect time to reapply Garrote, and Rupture?

I know for like warlock agony has to be reset at 3.4 seconds

[lyric galleon]

Without Subterfuge reapply first time around 5 seconds with a Vanish.

Subterfuge will get you full points out of stealth by itself. I suppose you can do it the same way, but Master Assassin sims higher for single target.

[fair blaze]

7.2 for Rupture 5,4 for Garrote

These are pandemic range

[lyric galleon]

I usually find myself reapplying Rupture around 5-7

[empty badge]

Ok this makes sense

[fair blaze]

And also remember if playing with subterfuge not to reapply during your empowered garrote!

[empty badge]

So do you guys like the Garrote > Rupture > Garrote opener or Garrote > Garrote > Rupture

[fair blaze]

Depends

[empty badge]

yeah it over writes empowered with a bad one

[lyric galleon]

But it depends on the fight. If you are talking about straight up tank/spank then it will be smoother of course.

[empty badge]

I like to think of everything as tank/spank and then adjust accordingly usually

[fair blaze]

With exsanguinate you want to Garrote>Rapture>Garrote>Mut>Rapture>Exsanguinate

Tbh

Doesn't matter what do you play

you want to rapture at 3

[empty badge]

Yeah I dont play exsanguinate I dont like it

Ok that is the way I like

So Garrote > Rup > Garrote > Mut > Rupture >> Proceed

[sturdy python]

You open like that anytime you are using subterfuge and ss

[fair blaze]

If you dont play with exsa

You play Gar>Rap>Gar>TB

If i remember correctly

Because i don't play with Sub anymore 😄

[empty badge]

Do you use master sin in keys as well?

[lyric galleon]

WIth Sub I always get 5 point off Garrotex2 out of stealth into Rupture.

[fair blaze]

Oh of course not 😄

[empty badge]

I was going to say lol

[fair blaze]

But in keys i play with exs

Because with my team comp it's better

[empty badge]

Most of my single target openers are in keys as I dont do high end content anymore, just keys

Ah I like PB a lot

[fair blaze]

Well you can play PB with a Exs 😄

I have MM hunter and second rogue specced into more ST dmg, so i'm playing with Exs and CT to deal with packs and reaping

But if you are playing with TB

Your opener should be Gar>Rapt>Gar>Vendetta>TB>Env>normal rotation

[empty badge]

Oh I meant TB not PB

[fair blaze]

Yeah I figured it out 😄

[empty badge]

Oh vendetta before Tb

I always do gar>rap>gar>tb>env>vendetta

[fair blaze]

You are missing a lot of ticks

from your empowered garrote

and one cast of Envenom

without Vendetta before TB

[empty badge]

I will try it, I guess I didnt think about that

[fair blaze]

It's not big dps loss but min maxing is something we like as a assasination rogues 😛

[lyric galleon]

Always Vendetta before TB.

[fair blaze]

The only exception is when you can pair Vendetta with Vanish

And TB is on CD

[hoary crown]

Is it worth saving Vendetta and vanish on Opulence untill the second pack of adds has gone out ? for the dmg buff ?

[fair blaze]

Not sure how about Subt

but with MA it is worth

[hoary crown]

ahh great! Thx for the answer ! ^^

[sturdy python]

Probably depends how fast you kill it also

[fair blaze]

Because you have crit+dmg buff

[sturdy python]

If you’re not going to lose a cast then for sure it’s worth

But I don’t think any groups take that long anymore

[hoary crown]

Yeah we will prolly get it down in under 2 minutes, I guess :S

[fair blaze]

And it can be a big Envenom

[lyric galleon]

I was #1 in damage on H Opulence and I have Vendetta up after using it to finish off the mini boss. It coincides with his adds pretty nicely.

[fair blaze]

Were you playing with MA?

[lyric galleon]

I only play MA in raids, yes.

[hoary crown]

Yeah I am using MA mate 😃

Ahh you meant mis

[fair blaze]

Well i need to try

Because i have been going as an outlaw

on Opu

But mostly raid in Assa so it can be funny experience

[lyric galleon]

It doesn't look like there is a difference, but when you notice it, it actually does more than Subterfuge.

[fair blaze]

Yeah i'm also play with MA

on all bosses right now 😄

[lyric galleon]

M+ always Subterfuge though.

[fair blaze]

+1

Playing with MA must feel really clunky on M+s

[lyric galleon]

You do a bit better on bosses, but that is it.

[fair blaze]

And do almost nothing on thrashes

probably not worth 😄

[lyric galleon]

Yeah you get way behind on trash.

You still won't be DH's though. I was running TD 15 with two and they were hitting 75-100k on trash.

[fair blaze]

The only moment when i can hit 100k is on big reaping pull

But when you are only pressing Fok into CT

is like playing DH

[pale agate]

so, maybe it changes at >20 keys but I think doing good damage on reaping is worth basically nothing

[fair blaze]

Of course it not worth

[pale agate]

it's just a competition between you and the other aoe pumpers in the group to see who can land the most casts/most efficiently

[fair blaze]

But my epenis

is getting bigger along with bigger numbers

; )

[pale agate]

that's the only reason to care about reaping dmg imo

it's totally legit though, having big numbers and big epenis is super fun

[fair blaze]

+1

You can banter your friends

after that

and laughing inside

[lyric galleon]

I wish I could like Outlaw. I miss Combat.

[fair blaze]

Tbh on Aoe it's pretty fun because you don't care about rolles

But it's not #outlaw channel and i don't wanna be warned by Richard 😄

[lyric galleon]

You get wrecked on rng rolls a lot?

[fair blaze]

On ST yes

[lost horizon]

@lyric galleon if you wanna shred DHs regularly, go outlaw for sure

Sin can compete though tbh w/AoE set up

Or in ST heavy dungeons like temple/kr

[fair blaze]

On Aoe you keep almost everything except additional SS

Yeah with my 3 SS and 3 EB i can compete with almost every class on AoE

[lost horizon]

Sometimes if you're pulling big one after another outlaw gets bf charge starved and plummets

That's where sin beats it

[lyric galleon]

@lost horizon I am happy beating them on bosses every time and still being close to them on trash. 😛

[fair blaze]

Inb4 chain pulling LUL

[lost horizon]

That's when you play Nelf

[pale agate]

so, I realize it's just a single data point but I wasn't able to break through the 1600 io mark until I switched from outlaw to sin. I had too many runs where I was doing like 6k more damage than the other DPS, we didn't wipe much or at all, but still missed timer

[lost horizon]

@lyric galleon the boss dmg is another place sin overtakes

@pale agate that's likely more a reflection of the group than yourself

[fair blaze]

Tbh chainpulling is the most hurting thing that can happen to sin

[pale agate]

@lost horizon why do you say that? just bad luck with bad dps?

[lyric galleon]

Makes sense. Those players that go +20 and higher are literally pulling the whole instance.

[lost horizon]

You do have to pull big, but there is a limit

[marble hemlock]

you can just not play that many SS

and then restealthing isnt as important anymore

[lost horizon]

As nelf though it's hard to give up

[fair blaze]

That's a point Seli

[marble hemlock]

chainpulling when 2-3mobs still have bleeds up is actually pretty nice, since you dont have any energy-sustain issues when the new pack comes around

[pale agate]

TTK build ❤

[marble hemlock]

not having to ramp-up by chainpulling makes up for not running 3SS

[fair blaze]

Luckily i don't have that problem because my tank always check if i'm in stealth ❤

[lost horizon]

Chaining is pretty important sometimes though

[lyric galleon]

Must be actually tricksing him. >.>

[lost horizon]

Like with reaping, chaining it into another pack/boss really helps shave time

Which is where it's nice to have the freedom from stealth

As outlaw or by dropping some SS

[fair blaze]

Nowadays

Chaining with outlaw is pretty required

To get these juicy wits stacks ;d

[lost horizon]

Like FH? Outlaw is ridiculous

But sin's def got its place

[fair blaze]

Yeah i recently have watched jdot time trial

[lost horizon]

And even in dungeons where outlaw goes nuts, your group may benefit more from sin

[fair blaze]

on Underrot

And nerf pulled all reaping mob to 1st boss to abuse Yoda's dmg 😄

[lost horizon]

That's the play, especially on non tyrannical

FH for example, pull the 3 packs at the start w/hero, shroud to boss, pull the enforcers to spawn boss and reaping

Pull boss w/reaping

[fair blaze]

I'm just curious

how would it works

with old sub rogue

[lost horizon]

You'd do exactly that, pull reaping into each boss

Except the boss would die twice as fast

[fair blaze]

Probably

[lost horizon]

Just run around with reaping mobs the whole dungeon even to give sub rogues prio dmg

[fair blaze]

And one

RNG

crash

destroy run

[lost horizon]

If you wipe,meh, just pick up the reaping mobs again and start it back up

Triple sub rogue would be wild

[fair blaze]

And how funny to watch!

2 spells through whole dungeon

[lost horizon]

Triple sub you wouldn't have to worry much about accidentally killing shit either

[lyric galleon]

That was the hilarity of myself and double DH is we just destroyed everything and pulled big in TD.

[lost horizon]

I beat my personal record in a FH last week as outlaw playing with double DH

It's pretty mongo

[hoary crown]

Hmmm is it worth going with echoing blades on Opulence and sacrifice some single target dmg ?

[plain thistle]

lol no

if you want to pad on adds, sure. but thats really not necessary

[lyric galleon]

You would fall way too far behind on mini boss.

[plain thistle]

you can always ask your guild to stop dps on adds while you pad a little 🤷

😂

[rapid token]

whats our typical talent tree when levelling 1-120?

[hollow stone]

Just run w/e when leveling. I recommend subterfuge and leeching poison but even those dont really matter

[rapid token]

okay

[hollow stone]

Marked for death is also nice for leveling. If you remember to use it lol

[copper kestrel]

How does the PvP trinket sim lower for assassin in AoE than ST. Like raw DPS number

https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/trinkets/ds-t23-assassination

1474 v 1384 for 385 Dread Gladiator's Badge

[lost sentinel]

still no weapon from m+ cache... but I got a questionable seal ring with a gemslot... so that is pretty great

[rancid bobcat]

Which trinket are you looking at

[shy dust]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[golden relic]

I hope u all get haste mastery or crit mastery gear from your m+ chests tommorow EU amigos : , )

[fleet whale]

410 underrot ring for me today with socket

[orchid fox]

/stats

[waxen vine]

For sub + shrouded, do you wait the 20 secs for vanish to come off cd for the 2nd vendetta?

[strange python]

I'm pretty sure it is Vanish on CD

and Vendetta on CD

[copper kestrel]

@rancid bobcat 385 Dread Gladiator's Badge

[strange python]

memeing 10s as outlaw is fun as fuck lmao

[bleak spoke]

@marble hemlock for dungeons, what would you take out of the tertiary azerite. i'm thinking other than when a piece has overwhelming power, i take unstable flames if possible? (playing 3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss)

[sour nymph]

are yall rocking st azerite traits or echo for this week m+

[blazing kayak]

New to this whole simming thing, i simmed like twice equipped best gear to see my patchwork dps

then i did it a third time and put on my galecallers

now its saying put mastery gems on and replacing my haste gear with mastery

im down to like 13 haste and pushing 40 mastery

doesnt seem rght

[lone junco]

@blazing kayak click the relative % button.

and anything less than like 0.2% or so is colored blue. meaning sidegrades

statistically indifferent

[marble hemlock]

i usually take OP ye

or unstable

[desert vault]

@marble hemlock what are you running this week? 2/3x ttk and ss/eb?

[marble hemlock]

i always play same stuff (mostly cause i dont have better pieces than the ones im using rn)

3ttk 2eb 1ss

would like to run more ss this week since pulls arnet as big

wtb goraktuls 😦

[lone junco]

was gonna lol when I could get 3EB 3DD.

[desert vault]

I have crap for ttk peices sadly. I'm going to try for 2x eb ss ttk prolly

[lone junco]

rip my sin combos

[desert vault]

I had 3x eb ss all 415 last week. Was so silly.

I somehow did 39k on one freehold and another freehold ran with a 1800 I outlaw that was 410 and beat him too. I'm 407 and like 1300 io

[strange python]

@wary ice do u mean "at how many targets do i fok > mut" or "at how many targets do i fok > finish"

Yes that is what I mean.

anybody have the answer to that?

[crystal vessel]

anyone have a weak aura for MA?

[mossy adder]

sure gimme 1 sec to upload it

https://wago.io/6eni67Z3P

[crystal vessel]

thank you

[tight meteor]

galecallers worth using in raid?

[left storm]

so i've been loooking around and failed to find anything solid

which traits stack?

[supple hearth]

All damage stacks

Utility doesn't always stack

I.e SS will only give 2 combo points regardless of how much you stack. But the garrote damage increases

[left storm]

so nothing personal stacks damage

but doesn't stack energy?

[umbral fiber]

Correct

[cobalt gyro]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/e3ukTVeQRQ5kCzSpFMCiqN

26k club

[vestal wren]

gz

[cobalt gyro]

gorak's mantle is a god tier shoulder

[visual python]

@strange python if no one has answered your question about fok/mut multi target lmk i can pm you the resource i used for deciding what to do

[dark crag]

Dd blight and op on 1 item, godlike

I use budget pieces for assa. No luck with tr gamble. Either i get sub stuff or ss/eb stufg

[blazing kayak]

Is vers a dead stat for sin? If I have 0-3% vers as sin in raid should I be worried?

[hollow stone]

@cobalt gyro now for the 27k club. Its never enough

[harsh sphinx]

he's collecting those sockets

[cobalt gyro]

@dark crag it also has NP

[hollow stone]

Its not dead but its going to be your lowest stat so low vers is not a problem

[dark crag]

Also np on goraks? More than a god

[burnt cargo]

Probably gonna ask the same question everyone else does, but exsanguinate is better than TB if you have at least one SS correct? And what should I do after the exsanguinate expires for pull? Vanish and garrote rupture garrote?

[dark crag]

Not always,

[desert vault]

hrmm wonder if 3x TtK, 2x SS, 1x EB would be anything decent this week ...

or if the old safe bet of 2x eb, ss, ttk is prolly the right choice

guess it is teeming

[burnt cargo]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3NykJyoDBzDWaCvYf5D26J

It's just I get like 32k burst DPS then I fall down to about 18k

[bleak spoke]

should climb a bit after you vendetta again

and settle

also if you're not doing your initial burst with bloodlust will be v. hard to hit sim numbers

on st

[dark crag]

2ss 2eb 2ttk is allrounder, switch the 3 around to focus more on aoe, cleave or focus dmg

[harsh sphinx]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9UBM4w8SchvhN7Afp4MCGN last socket coming tonight lads. then i will be complete.

[stable pine]

Any NE here can help with a macro for meld --> stealth?

[plush light]

Has MA opener changed?

or is it still G/M/ R

[sturdy python]

G>M>R>Vend>Van>TB is the usual one now yeah

[desert vault]

you can't distract a pat that has sight right?

[fleet whale]

you can

as long as you keep your distance

however some mobs are immune to distrace

distract*

[outer ruin]

If my group doesn't have a Frost mage for H Stormwall, should I go Master Poisoner? Are there better options than a 70% slow for adds outside of frost mages?

or is MP only bumping the 50% slow on Cripple upto 60%?

[rancid bobcat]

oh no

i had cephalohide jacket all this time

but on outlaw

i dont want to respec azerite

[modest badge]

whats echo blade meta? 2 or 3

[fiery cradle]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[wild stone]

Guys, whats the addon that puts in chat deaths?? I have fatality but its doing nothing .

[civic palm]

There's a lot of really annoying addons that will do that for you.

[atomic saddle]

Trying to figure out when 3xEB is better than 3xSS and when not for days now. Seems like no one really knows because it depends so much on pulls in m+. Also, how reliable is the Dungeon Slice sim? When I sim Stat Weights with Dungeon Slice, Haste is still second highest. I thought crit+mastery are way above haste since it becomes pretty irrelevant when you have a few bleedings rolling... can anyone clarify?

[fair blaze]

Dungeon Slice consider boss fights also

3xEB is pretty good for reaping chainpull when you can't restealth

[atomic saddle]

Restealthing is not an issue for me, I am just looking for numbers from how many targets 3xEB becomes better than 3xSS when mobs live around 30 sec

I think its something like 5-6 when EB pulls ahead but not sure

[fair blaze]

If you can put 6 garrotes with vanish then SS is better

at higher number of targets EB will become better and better

Of course mobs should live at least half of garrotes' duration

[atomic saddle]

ye thats what I think too but there are no real numbers to work with. Also, why does the stat weights sim value Haste second highest?

[muted jacinth]

@burnt cargo why master poisoner? or even exsang with triple NP?

[fair blaze]

What traits do you use on M+?

Probably with Exsanguinate haste value higher

than other stats

[atomic saddle]

3xSS, 1xEB, 1xTC, 1xSoB

[fair blaze]

I'm not sure how APL works with SoB trait

[atomic saddle]

and im playing PB

[fair blaze]

PB or TB?

[atomic saddle]

what is TB?

[fair blaze]

Toxic Blade

[atomic saddle]

oh thought you meant the PB talentrow

Im playing TB and PB

[fair blaze]

So they can be 2 options 1) Slice consider boss fights more than normally 6T 40s 2) SoB trait change APL to putting more dots into fight instead of using Envenom

[atomic saddle]

yea maybe, it also depends on how the APL handles the 1x EB trait since rupturing more targets gives more energy to keep spamming FoK

I usually put 3x Garrote with SS on high HP targets (for example in reaping) and then apply like 3-4 Ruptures and spam FoK and every 3rd or 4th global one Envenom to keep EP up (not sure if its worth tho)

[fair blaze]

Can't confirm cause i'm playing with CT 😄

Tbh rapture also gives you EP

But probably it's dps loss to put another Rapture with 3-4 rolling

[atomic saddle]

Yea 3 is definitely enough as long as the 3 garrotes are rolling

after that I usually use 4 Ruptures until targets start to die

[fair blaze]

Another Rapture is always a bit of Agility 😄

[atomic saddle]

yea

What traits do u use?

[fair blaze]

3 SS 3 EB

[atomic saddle]

Awesome

[fair blaze]

because my teammates are more ST oriented

[atomic saddle]

What dps does your Dungeon Slice sim show and whats your usualy average?

[fair blaze]

I'm loggin into game and check

But can't tell exactly average dps

[atomic saddle]

Also, you might wanna switch to PB because applying 3-4 ruptures might proc a PB and you dont waste your FoK global on CT

[fair blaze]

Yeah

[atomic saddle]

With 3xEB one FoK should be stronger than CT

[whole cradle]

does nothing personal snapshot haste

[fair blaze]

NP is dynamic

Yeah but on reaping

i'm going into FoK>CT rotation

[atomic saddle]

snapshotting in bfa

[fair blaze]

No LUL emote ;D

[atomic saddle]

yea sadly

[fair blaze]

[atomic saddle]

Im still confused simcraft values haste second highest... sure on bossfights it pulls ahead but Sim is aiming for the highest possible dps and boss fights are kind of a small part of your overall dps in M+ (depending on affixes but usually).

[inland stump]

well all encounters are different and whats best in which encounter

one encounter u can drop 20-25k dps

and another 10-15 and still be at the top

I am jumping between 16-25 or so K mostly

and idk how I can make it more stable but after cds have dropped and BL, my dps is 16-17k(397ilvl)

how would u say that is and sorry if I interrupted in the middle of something

[atomic saddle]

If you are looking for mistakes just sim yourself on patchwork fights and compare the dps to what you are doing.

you can vary fight lenght.

[cobalt gyro]

dslice has a lot of ST in it

[fair blaze]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fJm9hrpYW3wNVb2Xj56YsU

These trinkets PEPEGA

I'm generating weights now

[inland stump]

I use wowanalyzer for that and it seems mostly due to my uptime

but idk

[cobalt gyro]

well what does your sim say your dps is

[atomic saddle]

mh didnt expect lot of ST in Dungeon Slice since 30k dps with AoE traits is what I usually see in pug keys

[inland stump]

20k

20-21k

[fair blaze]

I'm not sure that Dungeon Slice considers Reaping mobs

[cobalt gyro]

your sim plays perfectly, you most likely will not

so being a bit lower than your sim is reasonable

and no, it does not

[atomic saddle]

oh

[fair blaze]

So your overall dmg can be a little higher

In my example

[cobalt gyro]

it's a good estimate of what would be good in keys

[inland stump]

ow I know that but watching raidlogs and my parses there is varying from grey to purple

(raiding with my guild)

[atomic saddle]

I still think Haste should be way below Crit and Mastery and not second highest :x Makes no sense since haste is pretty irrelevant after a few ruptures.

[cobalt gyro]

so stack more crit and mastery if you feel that way

stat weights aren't perfect

[inland stump]

well haste helps with energy regen and also makes u being able to spam more mutilaes and ruptures, especially if u use TB

[fair blaze]

Tbh it's depends on what role you have in team

[inland stump]

I have 31% master, 26-31% crit(due to trinket)and 17% haste

[fair blaze]

I am a AoE guy so i stack mastery and crit

[atomic saddle]

Yea but I'm trying to replace my "feel that way" with actual science, kind of if you know what I mean ;D

[cobalt gyro]

sure, but sims aren't entirely realistic for dungeons

so if you're thinking haste is worse to stack than crit mastery, stack those

[inland stump]

yea I have tried that

[fair blaze]

If you play with more crit, your rotation can be smoother due to seal fate

[atomic saddle]

yea

[cobalt gyro]

low crit feels really awful in dungeons

[inland stump]

but then having no haste is not gonna help either

[fair blaze]

Yeah 6 mobs and only 1 CP from FoK

[inland stump]

my stat weights are all around 2,5

[cobalt gyro]

especially with EB traits

[inland stump]

so pretty balanced out

[cobalt gyro]

fok fok fok for 2 eb procs

[atomic saddle]

I think the optimal build for bfa s2 m+ might be 3xSS 3xEB with Crit > Mastery >> Haste > Versa

[fair blaze]

On these gear setup

i have like

7% haste

so

you know man

XD

[inland stump]

well everyone has their play style i guess

[cobalt gyro]

i have 33% crit, 12% haste and 29 mast on my dungeon set

[fair blaze]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6buLMmatDGt6qyYUdHA7Nn

Look at these man ;D

[inland stump]

u also apply stats according to ur build?

[fair blaze]

Well

[cobalt gyro]

i run different things depending on what we need

[fair blaze]

I should have more vers

due to EB traits

[inland stump]

ow man i want those trinkets