assassination

[bleak spoke]

Yeh outlaw rng is more pistol shot procs than rolls so that makes sense

[dark crag]

I currently progress jaina mythic and i am consistently about 22k to 25k dps p1. Other rogue is outlaw and swings like crazy

[bleak spoke]

Is he loading the dice on pull

[dark crag]

My lowest p1 dps was 19k, double avalanche and no cds in opener

[wary ice]

I'm still unsure how to use vendetta in that fight on H

we started prog yesterday

[bleak spoke]

Just vendetta on cd

Unless she’s gonna phase

Don’t vendetta the wall tho

[dark crag]

You can cloak the icering

[wary ice]

I knew the cloak thing actually

surprised to hear dont vend wall though

is that cause we're trying to vend her in p3

[bleak spoke]

You don’t get a full vendetta on the wall

[dark crag]

I am unsure how tough the wall on mythic will be

[solid nova]

@bleak spoke

[spice surge]

Less than you think

[wary ice]

Is it a viable idea to just zerg down jaina and ignore images if the damage is there for it in p3?

[bleak spoke]

@solid nova that message wasn’t even bad

[solid nova]

[wary ice]

I personally think we super out gear this fight and are suffering from trying too hard to be honest with it

[dark crag]

In good pugs image are done by ranges

[bleak spoke]

^

[spice surge]

@dark crag Killing the wall in time isnt very hard, whats hard is trying to do as much damage to jaina as possible and still kill the wall in time

[dark crag]

Melees focus boss

[wary ice]

Our raid has 2 melee dps

should we designate some ranged to tunnel as well?

[dark crag]

Probably

[bleak spoke]

Some range can do both

Tunnel the boss and kill images I mean

[spare shore]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[worn kayak]

Hi all. Every time I'm in a toxic blade window, I find myself needing to refresh both garrote and rupture during this window. Should I always wait to refresh first, and then use toxic blade afterwards or is that normal?

[bleak spoke]

Always use Tb on cd and play bleeds around that

[idle vigil]

It’s about figuring out your timings

For example your opener

Plan how many combo points ruptures you want before you go into tb window

For me doing garrote rupture garrote into tb rotation has rupture drop right as tb ends for me to refresh

Idk why I said for me it’s for anyone but that’s

Yeah*

[bleak spoke]

For second tb it always comes after vanish garrote rupture garrote yeh

Part of what makes subterfuge with an ss less annoying than ma for me

[worn kayak]

I'm playing with master assassin as I don't even have an SS trait, but i get the point; always use tb on CD regardless, alright ty 😃

[wary ice]

for me the big eye opener was realizing u dont have to refresh at 5.6/7.2

treating my pandemics as a buffer rather than as gospel made timings work a lot clearner for me

[worn kayak]

yeah i was also thinking about that. maybe those extra couple seconds could be spent on envenoms instead

[heavy skiff]

U just have to refresh it between 0 and pandemic

Thats all

Btw is there a way to make ur wa track pandemic depending on cp spend?

I mean all wa i have seen just put it at 7.2

[wary ice]

Pandemic is based off your next ruptre not the one u placed

[heavy skiff]

But if i used rup at less then 5cpnthen its not 7.2

Isnt it based on ur original rup?

[wary ice]

nope

[heavy skiff]

Like new rup +30% of old one?

[wary ice]

If i apply a 2cp rupture

and refresh it with a 5cp rupture at 7.2

i will get 100% of the 30% pandemic avalaible toa 5cp rupture

[heavy skiff]

Oh ok

[wary ice]

That said; my personal rupture wa changes colors at 7.2, 6, and 4.8

which are the break points for pandemics at 5,4,3 cps

[heavy skiff]

5 4 and 3 cp?

K perfect

K gonna add thet to my wa as well

[scenic raptor]

Is 3x ss still meta?

[royal lantern]

for what?

raiding no, get DD/NP

for m+ SS is still good, but EB is better too stack

[scenic raptor]

Yea for m+

[lost sentinel]

I like SS still for M+, but EB is unquestionably better at least for 10+ due to reaping

[wary ice]

Seli was saying 3x ttk 1 ss 2 eb is a goal for M+

[lost sentinel]

not sure about that exact breakdown, but prob good

[wary ice]

I dont remember if thatw as keys in general or this week specifically

But the idea is essentially that our prio damage helps maintain equal health on mobs during bursting

TB/PB with it obvs

[scenic raptor]

Yea im always running 10-15 j
Keys and ss have been good for damage in the opener

[lost sentinel]

I still don't have a 410 dagger, feelsbadman... how many weeks into M+ chests... and not a single

[wary ice]

I ran a temple 15 last night

out damaged everyone, directed orb room over text, handled every shroud, triple soaked on galv

we missed timer by 2 mins

everyone else in the key got 420 weapons

i got tidal core

[lost sentinel]

you can't get 420 weapons from M+ end of chest, only 410... unless they changed something?

[wary ice]

fat fingered

410*

[lost sentinel]

ah kk

but damn

I should have been there!

[unborn leaf]

Can someone explain what azerite traits people are using for the Sin M+ ttk build?

[royal lantern]

weeell

TTK and EB

1x SS is good too

[unborn leaf]

How mant EB do you want?

[royal lantern]

i use 3xTTK 2xEB 1xSS

[unborn leaf]

You use TB over Exsang for that build?

Thx.

[wary ice]

re: that build

thoughts on BBI > 2nd eb?

[silver horizon]

Afternoon Ladies & Gents - Is there anyone out here whom can "coach" in a way my performance(s) on 3/9M from last night? I have the gear and what I believe to be pretty strong Azerite traits. My weapons being my lowest ilvl hurts my DPS a bit but I really want someone to be critical to help me improve. I know assassination isn't wonderful for Jadefire and our kills weren't the cleanest but really hoping to start getting my parse for my ilvl up as well as my overall.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8pNKa2vLMG3gmyd4
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/38083371

[heavy skiff]

If u have 2 ss traits u could start with ggg

Instead of grg

So that u have tho long duration on 1 boss

Pref monk)

[silver horizon]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

[pastel roost]

Hey guys currently progressing on jaina, trying to squeeze as much dps as i can. I see some rogues going full crit/mastery on the fight, and i guess that's because there are some times on the boss when we are not in melee. Can someone develop this point of view and explain to me if it's worth ?

[spice surge]

@silver horizon Theres a couple of things i seen on your grong log.

1. You vendetta'd the boss and then started hitting the adds after about half the vendetta, which isnt optimal.
2. You're not lining up vanish with vendetta (nor with your potion/BL)
3. Overall uptime of bleeds are sub-par, should be 95%+
4. Overall usage of TB isnt optimal, if you would've used it right as it came up you would've gotten 2 additional ones

[blissful tide]

I’m not on Jaina prog yet but my first thought would be for more aoe damage in order to break blocks? @pastel roost

[spice surge]

You dont get any blocks on mythic

[blissful tide]

You don’t

[spice surge]

@pastel roost The only thing in that fight that matters in that fight is damage to the wall+p3 jaina

[blissful tide]

Wtf

[spice surge]

Literally everything else is irrelevant (damage wise)

so its basicly full ST with execute for 90s

[muted jacinth]

top sin has 1400 haste 1000 crit 900 mastery and like 450 vers

[pastel roost]

We're wiping just after wall, so i guess jaina should go down soon. And yes p1 is irrelevant, we even have to stop dps sometimes

[spice surge]

But no, i see no reason why you would alter your stats for anything

[pastel roost]

Just was curious to see rogues in MA/poison bomb with 3 DD et NP going masterful navigation for that fight

and some crit gems

[muted jacinth]

are you using your cds on wall?

[pastel roost]

No

[muted jacinth]

usually it just sims higher is why they do it

[pastel roost]

At least, not the plan

[thin patio]

Maybe he enchanted and gemmed for m+

[muted jacinth]

I know mastery for me is a really high stat weight

[spice surge]

Stats are basicly irrelevant anyway

Just pick what sims the highest

[muted jacinth]

but once you have nav of that stat the stat weight drops

are you blowing 3rd vendetta on jaina before the wall then?

[spice surge]

No

you hold vendetta

[pastel roost]

Mm ok , myabe quirky things only related to character and not strat as a whole

[spice surge]

For p3

[muted jacinth]

I mean you get one vendetta in p3 regardless

[pastel roost]

Not using any cd on the wall beyond Toxic blade and maybe Galercaller

[spice surge]

There is no point using another vendetta in p2 anyway

Since you have to stop dps anyway

[muted jacinth]

if you link your wipes I'm sure theres someone that can find min maxing. but it still heavily relies on not getting mechanics

[pastel roost]

NVm that, was just curious about my initial question

about master/crit

[muted jacinth]

I've seen master and haste but never just crit mastery

probably just sims higher

[pastel roost]

i'll try to sim it, just to see

[spice surge]

Damage to water elemental should be excluded in warcraftlogs

[muted jacinth]

for sure

[pastel roost]

+1

Unless the goal is to rank higher by hitting a lot more water elementals 😄

[muted jacinth]

could also sim 2m to try to sim around p3 as well

cant really double pot tho

[turbid zealot]

evening could anyone tell me what im doing wrong with my rogue

heres some logs

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bwCLyZmv264FGV1j/

char name wildiopantio

[pastel roost]

Well beyond any kind of strat analysis i would put the 400 weapon in the Main hand and the 385 in off hand

[plain thistle]

opener is 3 garrote, vanish as well. the fourth one is outside of SS+ subterfuge window and a waste

and toxic blade on CD

not sure why you casted the first one at 10s and the second one at 139s 🤔

too much combo point wasted, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bwCLyZmv264FGV1j/#fight=3&type=resources&source=12&spell=104, finish at 4+ combo point, you did a couple mutilate > mutilate > mutilate

[turbid zealot]

so its ok for me 2 vanish for the 4th garrote 2 be in ss instead of saving it after dots garrote falls off ?

[grim canopy]

when reaping goes away you think Sin will be top dog again?

[stuck knoll]

Perfect trait sin is actually probably better than Outlaw

[spice surge]

They're atleast on par, but assa has a stricter gear requirement (azerites) and is significantly harder to play

In m+ that is

[strange python]

What is perfect trait?

what are the perfect traits*

[grim canopy]

How is Sin harder to play in m+?

I used to play it in legion isn't all you do put on garrote/rupture on everyone and spam fok

[golden relic]

well outlaw u just turn bladeflurry on

xd

[grim canopy]

lol

[golden relic]

checkmate

[grim canopy]

touche

what are these supposed "perfect traits"

[plain thistle]

@turbid zealot no, you use garrote 3 times > rupture > normal rotation > vanish > 3 garrotes again

[grim canopy]

i enjoy that, but when some outlaw doing way more in reapong

[turbid zealot]

ok ty

[strange python]

Is ttk ever actually better than 3x ss 3x eb exsang in 15+ or do people just like the varietyb

[spice surge]

Well, what you do depends heavily on how long the targets will live

[grim canopy]

what is the trait setup that lets Sin beat outlaw inm+

[idle vigil]

There’s no perfect traits

It depends what you want to do

There’s pure aoe, theres pure st, there’s funnel aoe cp into st like old sub

[hollow stone]

Imo, sin beats outlaw because of the variety. Idk if 3ss 3eb is going to out dps outlaw (but itd be damn close if it doesnt).

[idle vigil]

Lotta different ways to go about it depending on your company

[hollow stone]

Basically what colleo is saying lol

[idle vigil]

Most people running m+ as Assas on super high keys are doing a mix of eb/ttk with a ss for Cp

For aoe into st prio and decent boss damage

[hollow stone]

Yea. But youre unlikely to beat overall meter dps of outlaw running eb ttk

[strange python]

I ran 3eb 2ss 1 envenom trait and did 37k overall in 18 freehold yesterday. Was good single target too

[hollow stone]

Even tho run is likely smoother and more often quicker

[idle vigil]

Overall dps is a trap imo

[hollow stone]

Yup. Thats why i mentioned it

[cunning blaze]

Question: when should i vanish if i don't have SS traits?

[hollow stone]

In what situation @cunning blaze

[cunning blaze]

Just standard 1 target raid boss

[plain thistle]

and which talent

[hollow stone]

Are you running ma?

[cunning blaze]

yeah

[hollow stone]

On cd w vend and tb window

[plain thistle]

😃

[hollow stone]

Yea

If you want more specifics,

[cunning blaze]

ok, thx 😃

[strange python]

If your group isn’t constantly dying, overall dps is def the best representation of how well you’re performing

[hollow stone]

Agree to disagree

[strange python]

Well, maybe state why you disagree

[hollow stone]

Imo, only thing that matters is: did you make it within the time? Yea? Ok, youre fine

[spice surge]

Overall group dps is the metric that matters

[strange python]

But you’re not going to make it in time if you’re dps isn’t good enough?

That wasn’t an argument

[spice surge]

Because if you "snipe" all the lost souls on a reaping because you've specced say, fel barrage

And then it takes 5 seconds longer to kill the smashers because you specced full aoe

Then you're not saving time compared to having those lost souls living 2 seconds longer and killing the smasher faster

[hollow stone]

And you wont make it in time if youre dps just burns forever and stacks up bolstering 20 times. But your dps will look better 👍

[grim canopy]

do many people still do sin in M+?

or all went outlaw

[hollow stone]

While i agree it is an indicator, its by no means confirmation of "we did good cause my dmg was high"

[primal gazelle]

method NA practicing double UDK + outlaw for mdi 🤔

[rustic isle]

double udk + assass

[primal gazelle]

oo ya yodar is assa

interesting memes

[grim canopy]

Cool thanks. I mained sin in legion was looking of returning back. but saw outlaw toping all the ladders

[visual quartz]

asn in M+ is fun, I'd rather have fun than go outlaw just for pure dmg

But thats individual taste

[lilac dirge]

i definitely feel as though my damage is more impactful playing sin. I feel a little more paddish playing OL

[bleak spoke]

me irl

[heavy skiff]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KDWp3wXtTJqhdjgH#fight=9&type=summary

how can i get that last 10% log?

or is it just rng at that point?

im Xârr

[rancid bobcat]

Faster kill maybe

Lots of parses are carried by fast kill times

[lilac dirge]

only time for two vendettas probs doesn't help your parse

[heavy skiff]

the best case would be 2:20 sec or something like that r?

so that u get just 2 vendettas off

[spice surge]

You could have more uptime on rupture as well

But also, better gear and azerites+faster kill time

[heavy skiff]

yep i need to get rid of that 400 chest somehow

sometimes i sacrifice 2 or 3 sec of rup tu get one last env inside tb window

is that ok or should i just refresh rup at that point?

[rancid bobcat]

Refresh rupture before

If it's down for 2-3 seconds that means you probably could've refreshed without losing panfemic

Err

[visual quartz]

yeah rup refresh is more important

[rancid bobcat]

Well you'd lose a few seconds of pandemic

[heavy skiff]

yea i mean i get into tb i already fuckd up before my rup is gonna fall of 1 sec after tb finishes

so i get that last env inside tb then mut rup

or mut mut rup

and lost 1 or 2 sec of rup

is it better that way or do i refresh rup at that last global inside tb

[rancid bobcat]

Spec is quite predictable in that you know how long your bleeds will last so try to plan 10-15 seconds in the future

[smoky fiber]

Thoughts on Blightborne? I'm running 1 over 3x DD and 3x NP, they sim almost the exact same, but I've felt a bit weaker this past week while running blightborne overall - am I just imagining things?

[spice surge]

Blightborne is exceptionally strong

[heavy skiff]

i usualy do that but this is a scenario when i already fuckd up xD

[rancid bobcat]

So just don't fuck up next time :P

[heavy skiff]

i try my best 😦

[rancid bobcat]

Easy to say I know

[spice surge]

Could just be bad rng, its not nearly as good when it doesnt proc in the opener unfortunately

[rancid bobcat]

Do you just "feel" weaker or have you actually compared your performance

[nimble elk]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[magic thorn]

Hey Guys i have a SS/DD+NP Head, SS+EB Shoulder, SS+DD Shoulder, and a DD+TWK Chest. What Azerite Piece should i aim to Roll considering i only Clear 4/9 Mythic

[smoky fiber]

Hard to say. I was in a different guild clearing, up to Mecha - Felt pretty strong and was logging well. Hadn't raided in 2 weeks, am on Jaina prog now first time running blightborne - just feels like I'm averaging lower overall (around 18-20k in phase 2).

[spice surge]

For raid clearly shoulders

As you already have the best in slot chest and helm for ST

[magic thorn]

Is DD+TWK a Bis chest ?

i thought a DD/NP would be bis

[heavy skiff]

it has OP as a 3rd trait

so yes xD

[magic thorn]

oh yeah 😄

[spice surge]

Overwhelming power+twist is better than another trait+np

[rancid bobcat]

What's twk

[smoky fiber]

twist the knife

[rancid bobcat]

Twist whe knife

Got it

[bleak spoke]

twisty knife

[tribal obsidian]

Is there no need to pool energy and hold off envenoms to maximize elaborate planning buff anymore?

didn't see it mentioned in the guide

[lost horizon]

It's more important to pool around TB

[bleak spoke]

community figures!

[spice surge]

Do the shadow curse apply to community figures too i wonder? 🤔

[marble hemlock]

@tribal obsidian itll always be a gain to pool to maximize envenom/ep uptime or get 3 envenoms into tb

[tribal obsidian]

ok thx I kinda thought that would be the case was just wondering if there was a reason not to do it 👌🏼

[marble hemlock]

ye, oftentimes other stuff takes priority

but when you can do it, its a minor gain at all times

[lost horizon]

Just don't fall into the trap of maximizing uptime and missing a potential env in TB because of it

[strange python]

how much do you get for scrapping 415?

[lost horizon]

365

[strange python]

ty

[wary ice]

@marble hemlock when im simming w/ the TTK build for m+ will Dungeon slice provide a more accurate sim for what i want in my damage or should i still do a bunch of targets ~40s?

[marble hemlock]

personally i still do patchwerk for aoe

[lilac dirge]

TB or exang for m+?

[wary ice]

Aight thanks

[marble hemlock]

if youre running the ttk build, tb. if youre running multiple SS pieces and no ttk, exsang

[lilac dirge]

makes sense thanks

[idle vigil]

If ur running 2ss/2ttk/2eb what would u suggest taking

Tb still?

[latent gazelle]

I’ve got 3 ss/1eb/1TtK/1 tc n sims usually show tb being better then exang

For M+

Can switch to a different helm n go 3ss/1Eb/2TtK

[cold spoke]

green ranks What is this

trusted rank is back

[desert vault]

is there a common place to shroud in Atal?

[sturdy python]

The large pack before the giant boss

[desert vault]

before the dino?

[sturdy python]

and sometimes some packs before that depending on how youre pulling it

No, the 2nd boss on the right

totem dude

[desert vault]

oh the totem guy?

[sturdy python]

ye

[desert vault]

do you have to sap/distract or just run past?

[civic palm]

I assume you pack skip to Troll then die to the skipped pack

[sturdy python]

Just run past, on teeming there are skeletons there but they do not get true sight until they are aggroed

[civic palm]

after boss is deaaaaaaaaad.

[sturdy python]

We just shroud there, I pull out and vanish

But thats as outlaw of course

[desert vault]

then how do you get past after boss? just pull, die, and go back from start?

[sturdy python]

second shroud, tank death runs, hunter/NE/vanish

Some classes can leap over the wall

Not most though

[desert vault]

will shroud be off CD though?

[sturdy python]

No

I just mean 2nd rogue soryr

[desert vault]

oh, ok

[sturdy python]

Worst case scenario your tank pulls out and you guys run by

Making sure theres no hots and to not run close enough to aggro

[idle vigil]

Don’t even need to death run

Just as the rogue Aggro them and sprint away

When your team walked past vanish

And they reset

[sturdy python]

Yeah, thats assuming you have vanish of course

[idle vigil]

I mean it’s 100% worth saving if you don’t have someone to meld

[sonic bridge]

not really

vanish is part of rotation for sin

[sturdy python]

Tank dying you lose about 10s or so

[sonic bridge]

yeah

[sturdy python]

so depends if that vanish damage makes up 10s

[idle vigil]

Are you telling me vanish makes up for 10s of people dpsing?

That’s just no way true

[sturdy python]

I didnt say it was, just presenting the points

[sonic bridge]

vanish is huge with ss

so possibly

🤷

[idle vigil]

10s of your entire group dpsing

No way

Not even close

[sturdy python]

Why does your group matter?

Im confused

[idle vigil]

? Because your entire group is waiting 10s

Because you have to res the tank

You can’t pull without the tank

[sturdy python]

Your group isnt waiting 10s

5s for the death

[idle vigil]

How is it not

[sturdy python]

shouldnt be more than a few to rez since it can be pre cast anyway

[idle vigil]

5s isn’t even a res cast

They have to run thru

Tank has to die

They have to res

If anything it’s more than 10 seconds

[sturdy python]

Okay w/e point is you can use those methods to skip

[sonic bridge]

Probably same shit

cuz ud have to pull mobs, move away quite a bit, vanish and go back to group

[idle vigil]

No res, group can pull once they’ve run thru

Don’t lose time to death on timer

Significantly more efficient I promise you

[strong needle]

Keep doing it then 😉 And if others think it's not let them keep doing what they prefer no?

[prime bison]

hello everyone, i need a piece of advice for myth rasta
is the build listed below better then MA 3xDD 3xNP? I did about 20 tries today with the second one and i want to know if this build can improve my dps/utility dmg
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rZfY23yMk9YzsDA4fKoybF

[drifting cloud]

fuck gcb on rasta

[prime bison]

i can replace with KR trinket

[lone junco]

run all over the place gl with gcb

[red plaza]

I think at most run with 1 SS and subterfuge. Main part of the fight is getting Rasta down and if you're on downstairs duty def stick with 3 dd 3 np

And ya KR trinket all the way

[prime bison]

got it thanks

[slow mortar]

Is there a way to see how many cp's were used on envenom for a fight?

[civic palm]

Gonna have to check WCL for that IIRC.

[slow mortar]

Probably easier to do while not on a phone

[civic palm]

ye

[winter gale]

Anyone here knows anything about spell queue window? Pls help me. As a rogue, usual world ms : 45-60. Just got new, better internet but I got some spell delay wich makes my spells delay a bit.

[spice surge]

Depends on how much you spam your buttons. I think baseline is 400 which is often considered too high

[winter gale]

Y, 400 is fucked up.

Now its 0

[spice surge]

Around 150-200 is usually what I hear people talking about

0 is also bad

[winter gale]

I disabled 😄

[spice surge]

I'd recommend like 50-100

[civic palm]

0 is extremely bad.

[winter gale]

60 feels nice when I tried.

[civic palm]

average ping + (100 to 150)

[sturdy python]

So 0 would let you queue stuff before the last ability even goes off?

[winter gale]

Sharp and precise but a minor micro stutter before applying ability.

[solid nova]

I get anywhere from single digit pings to 20 ish, set mine to 50 and it was great.

Id just mess around and find whats comfortable

[winter gale]

@civic palm so if my ms is 45-55 i should put it arround 100?

[solid nova]

Yeah id say thats a decent ballpark

[winter gale]

Thank you. Ill find best one

[civic palm]

You just want it where your abilities go off "when they should".

[fresh robin]

when you refresh a rupture for pandemic, how many seconds is it at 4 and 5 cps

i find myself having to refresh at 4 quite a bit

and is there a base blizzard ui thing to put the timer on the dots? or what addons do u guys use

[sturdy python]

~8s for 5 CP

omnicc puts times on stuff

WA's help too

[civic palm]

up to 7.2 seconds from the prior, added to whatever the max duration is for the new Rupture.

[fresh robin]

ive been using classic ui since like vanilla, stuck in my ways, hate updating addons when they get discontinued etc

ah yeah i totally forgot about WA

is there a good one everyone uses or should i just make my own

[sturdy python]

Me too, WA are super easy though at least

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[fresh robin]

cheers

does that auto work for when you have to rupture at 4cp vs 5?

[sturdy python]

The one I have lights up when its in pandemic, doesnt specify between 4 or 5 though

Cant remember which I use though, Im sure most do

[fresh robin]

id really like just timers on my dots, is that in the base ui somewhere? rofl like the seconds remaining because how do WAs that trigger work for cleaving

[sturdy python]

Like timers on your unit frames?

like that?

[fresh robin]

yes

[sturdy python]

Dont believe its in base UI

OmniCC just does it for me, no setup needed

[fresh robin]

hmm maybe ill check that out, i used to use i t

ty

[sturdy python]

NP, Mizerok here is the WA guru though if you need anything specific

[civic palm]

O _O 💦

[sturdy python]

Glad to volunteer ya 😄

[fresh robin]

lol

so you said 7.2 for rupture and what is it for garotte?

i mean i have a relative idea based on the "fade" on the basic ui, but just wondering what the exact numbers were

[civic palm]

5.4 seconds

[fresh robin]

ty, knew it was around 5 just wasnt sure of the exact

[rustic ether]

so when i use raidbots where do i find the rotation it used?

because im running one SS with MA so idk if ravenholdt guide is for me

[harsh sphinx]

MA sims higher for you with SS?

[grim canopy]

so 3EB = legit m+?

[rustic ether]

maybe not so much in dungeons like KR

[scenic saffron]

What is the optimal trinkets for sin in raids? I am simming best with 400 galecaller with socket and 415 kimbul. But people say that kimbul isn't as good as it seems in sims. Should i go for base 400 harlan+400 KR trinket even though they dont sim that high ?

[grim canopy]

who streams as Sin in M+ often

[solid nova]

Seliathan

[grim canopy]

nice thx

[rapid compass]

wat do yall do on opener ?

for ST

[civic palm]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[safe flame]

Sup gang, I'm having a serious AOE problem right now...Should I swap out a NP for 1 EB in M+? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c5qWT1njkTJf9mjaMxrEp4

[marble hemlock]

yes

EB = more AoE. NP on the other hand is a pure singletarget trait

same as EB is a pure AoE trait, so if you want more AoE, you should definitely swap traits 😉

[safe flame]

I figured as much, I just hate losing 2% dps because of 1 trait :/

[civic palm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[humble crane]

imagine being brought in for Jaina prog when you were away for 5 weeks for work missing mekka/stormwall prog and kills cause you have shit raiders -.-. Jaina feels so easy too for us.

straight off the bench bois!

[grim canopy]

Does sin still do decent ST in m+ with 3 EB?

[rigid mango]

Not particularly

You sacrifice atleast 3 trait slots for pure AoE

This is why outlaw is pretty strong, since they can get 1 trait for aoe, and the rest 5 slots for pure ST and whenever aoe comes around they press blade flurry

[warm harbor]

how many ruptures y'all keeping up this week for m+, 3 or 4?

[rigid mango]

4-5 Is when you hit perma energy for FoK spam afaik

So, around there I'd say

[warm harbor]

ty

[tough lantern]

how long do you have to beable to stand in Gale callers for it to be worth it?

[wintry wadi]

PB or CT for M+ AoE? Guides say PB, but you'd think that the consistency of CT would work better than the sporadic PB.

[humble crane]

the whole duration doki

thats why you cant just pop it on CD willy nilly

[rigid mango]

@wintry wadi PB is better in general

People stopped running CT

EB is sorta the filler for it

I'd only ever warrant playing CT during teeming weeks

and even then that's quite debatable

[wintry wadi]

Gotcha, and Thanks DSM. I prefer PB b/c at least it's useable on boss fights, where CT is pretty much useless

[rigid mango]

Aye, that's also a big thing

CT is nearly a trap when EB is a thing, you might aswell just spread ruptures and then spam FoK

[wintry wadi]

That's what I do. Spec into Sub, Garrot everything then rupture and FoK

[rigid mango]

Sub's good if you have SS

[wintry wadi]

Yup

[rigid mango]

which is also very good for m+

4-5 ruptures out and spam fok after that

EB'll take care of you 😃

[wintry wadi]

LOL! Thanks!

[round harbor]

ok how do i get green name

[lone junco]

Red name. Who dis

[strange python]

need some help,i do very low dps with my char can any help?

[round harbor]

link a log

[civic palm]

new sneaky

[strange python]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/outland/Shotokan

[round harbor]

you have no 8.1.5 logs

u want me to look at 8.1 for u?

[strange python]

sure

[round harbor]

it looking at champs heroic from 8.1 ur runnign 2 echoing blades for some reason

idk why

83% rupture uptime

crimson tempest on champions is wrong

[strange python]

should i change my Azerite Powers

[round harbor]

cast vanish only once during a 2:40 fight

i mean i would never run eb/ct on champions

what current options do you have

[copper kestrel]

For M+: I have 3EB/SS (option for TTK)
Should I consider HB/CT ever over PB? Are there affixes where that becomes a bigger deal?

[round harbor]

PB/HB are very close when you have 3 eb

i personally prefer HB because it has a little value on st, and no matter if the tank is standing still or kiting it will do its damage. vs pb if your kiting or moving it can get wasted

[lime oxide]

I have a question how should i open with assa on single like grong

[rancid bobcat]

no you cant ask it

[bleak spoke]

when you pop off every pull but it doesn't matter https://i.imgur.com/1yq7x7O.png

huh i'm playing assa

but it thinks i'm outlaw cuz i played that for trash monkaS

conclave M is miserable

[lost horizon]

Really? I didn't find conclave bad

[primal gazelle]

my highest dps in UR was when i accidentally forgot to swap out of PB 🤔

[lost horizon]

@lime oxide openers are in pinned guides! Check em out

[sturdy python]

Yes

Well I’m assuming you mean from the stairs, past the big witch and then down into the boss room?

[slow mortar]

o ya, just did it BUT the dumb tank pulled the whole boss area

[sturdy python]

Yeah, people tend to walk into mobs there

[slow mortar]

o no, he did it thorughout the dungeon. good times

raid boss captain with 5m hp

[bleak spoke]

@lost horizon my shamans and mages

can'

t

asdjfoajsodfjoiasjd

AHHHHHHHHHHH

every single pull we'd push gonk in first winds, kimbuls in second and then after akunda comes out we drop like flies to the curse

meanwhile https://i.imgur.com/idxGoKC.png https://i.imgur.com/FSsqti7.png

also there were 3 pulls where i got all the crits out of like 30 i want to die

[lost horizon]

How many curse dispells?

[bleak spoke]

the healing shaman had like 200-something, the dps one had like 70

in 30+ pulls

[lost horizon]

Like in raid

And is it prog?

[bleak spoke]

yeah it's prog

fuck knows why everyone's overgeared to shit

[lost horizon]

How many pulls total? And how many shammies/mages/druids in raid?

[bleak spoke]

like 40-50 pulls now i just don't get it

[cobalt gyro]

Not getting decursed has killed many a rogue

[bleak spoke]

i'm baiting the frogs btw

like

why me

why

[lost horizon]

Frog bait is super inconsistent anyway tbh

[bleak spoke]

yeah but you'd think ice block is better

me and the poor hunter

[lost horizon]

How many curse dispells do you have? If not enough you might run into trouble

[bleak spoke]

many

like 7

[lost horizon]

Hunter is a good option

[bleak spoke]

or 8

[lost horizon]

Yeah that's a big yikes

That's way more than enough

[bleak spoke]

it's like 3 is cutting it close i'd say

but liek 5+ is very

there's not that many curses going out

there's no way

[lost horizon]

People are probably mongo decursing

When the target has full health

Which is useless

[bleak spoke]

but legit on comms it's like "this guy needs a dispell" "this guy" "this guy" "this guy is dead..."

[lost horizon]

Have you gotten to just Paku left?

[bleak spoke]

yeh

[lost horizon]

Assuming you're killing Paku last

[bleak spoke]

but at that point it was all over basically

[lost horizon]

W/how many alive?

Ah

[bleak spoke]

like there was a pull where the last of my dots ticked out akunda

and there were like 4 dps alive

and 2 healers

[lost horizon]

Do people die during bird?

[bleak spoke]

to frog

sometimes :^)

[lost horizon]

Are your kill timings good? Do raptors get to bird?

[bleak spoke]

no

we have 3 rop

[lost horizon]

Do you kill gonk between 1:00-1:10?

[bleak spoke]

we push gonk on first winds, kimbul on second

and then none of the ekeltricksies hit during 3rd or 4th

it's legit the curses rinsing us

[lost horizon]

Are people mongoing and getting hit by frog in bird?

[bleak spoke]

once in a while

[prime bison]

1:00 for gonk and ~2:30 for kimbul are good timings

[lost horizon]

If it's actually just the curses, rip...

[bleak spoke]

there were some wipes to that

[prime bison]

we killed them in this way

[bleak spoke]

but it was like maybe 3 or 4

[lost horizon]

1minfor gonk is iffy cause if you're under 1min it gets hairy

Before 1:10 is good

[bleak spoke]

yeh we wait if the birdy hasn't landed

[lost horizon]

Kimbul in bird is about 2:30 so that's good timing

You should kill gonk before bird lands

[bleak spoke]

legit there's like 4-5 people slamming gonk/kimbul so fkn hard and then it's like the same people who aren't are the ones missing the decurses later

[lost horizon]

But for real with that many shammies and druids... Curses should be a joke

[bleak spoke]

3 shamans 3 druids and a mage yeh

🔫

[lost horizon]

And a bunch of those are healers yeah?

[bleak spoke]

2 healing shaman the rest dps

[lost horizon]

No rdruid?

[bleak spoke]

nah

[lost horizon]

2 healers is still plenty to be taking the majority at least up til akunda

Having 5 more is insanely good

[bleak spoke]

yeh it's lke everything's clockwork till akunda then people

people's brains just drip out of their ears

or something

on the bright side after 40+ pulls i'm really confident with MA rotation like 3 vendettas deep now :^)

[lost horizon]

Nice thing with MA is it lines up anyway

[bleak spoke]

yeh it's so nice

you get to blast every spawn

[civic palm]

WHAT AM I MEANT TO DO WHEN I GET THE LIGHTNING SHIT AND BIRD IS DOWN OH GOD PLEASE HELP MY FEET DON'T WORK.

[lost horizon]

Idk what to tell you though man

[cobalt gyro]

Sounds about right miz

[lost horizon]

I think I had 12 pulls for conclave and like

[bleak spoke]

i played subt, subt/ss and even a pull on exsang but they all felt terrible compared to ma on conclave

[lost horizon]

My raid is fairly laidback

[bleak spoke]

yeh idk i'd blame the trials but they're literally not the ones fucking up

i think... we might just be bad :^)

[lost horizon]

We struggled a touch on rekill cause we had dropped to 5 decurses

But it was still like 4/5 pulls figuring it out

[bleak spoke]

yeh but like 7 is excessive innit

[lost horizon]

But yeah man really got get people with decurses to figure it out

Did your raid struggle on opulence at all?

[bleak spoke]

feels when the people wonder why i don't run higher keys with them :x

ys

same people

same spin deaths

[lost horizon]

Yeah cause I was about to say

Opulence is harder LOL

[bleak spoke]

same excuses

meanwhile we out here reading books about gracefully accepting death to coin shower

[lost horizon]

Rasta is straight forward at least,so can look forward to that

[bleak spoke]

while doing golems

[lost horizon]

Though they made some annoying ass changes

[bleak spoke]

i'm dreading mekka

i pulled mekka and stormwall on my lock wth a friend's guild

and holy fuck just seeing what we have in our raid

i'm like

pre-traumatized

[lost horizon]

Mekka p1 is a breeze at least

So initially its not bad

[civic palm]

lol

Pre Traumatic Stress Syndrome 👌

[lost horizon]

Lmao

[bleak spoke]

l0l

lowkey i let myself get hit by buster cannon until i noticed the haste debuff

then i never got hit again :^)

[lost horizon]

Yikes

[bleak spoke]

but release week seems like ages ago

and that was hc anyway D:

[lost horizon]

If your raid leadership is good hopefully they'll address it

It's hard to kick people into gear but that's the job

[bleak spoke]

yeh

it is

but the problem is ppl just don't seem to listen well

or they say they are and they improve for a pull then go back to whatever

[wooden fog]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[frosty oak]

jeeeesus

playing on tournament realm made a rogue for the keys and wow assassination is so good with perfect traits/gear

[civic palm]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[thick galleon]

How to dodge brawlers rank 7 last boss Hudsons jump

[civic palm]

Fuckin... pray.

50k 50k 50k 50k 50k 50k 50k 50k 50k 50k 50k

thanks

Ass.

[night vale]

@frosty oak what traits were you running?

[bronze kelp]

@frosty oak what is the prefect gear for you ? 😉

[night vale]

These are my perfect traits for m+ :p

i run in a group with no AOE so is my job to smash the reaping usually

[vestal wren]

haha thats a dream team setup

living the pad dream with EB/SS/aoe

[night vale]

literally! like 200k on reaping waves (provided they are stacked and not staggered)

boss dmg is also fine usually, cause garotte SS carries me.... 😄 but we got people for MONSTER boss dmg

just need the mythic chest from conclave... but i got the head and shoulders at 415 from the azerite vendor

[cobalt gyro]

I'm running a similar set up with 2x SS 3x EB and 1 blightborne

it's

[night vale]

yeah its pretty fun, i used to run 3xTTK and do mad prio dmg, but our DH left us.... and i got lucky with sin azerite gear... so i just wanted to try it.

[lament dove]

are you using PB?

got my 3rd EB at last, from residuum, a helm with EB+TTK:)

[ionic arrow]

is there a guide for classed in m+? there is one on wowhead but its like just the import things; like 3 things. cloak here, or shroud there. would be great if someone know a little more detailed guide

so I can improve myself

[pliant nest]

So 3x EB is good this week?

Was thinkin of going 3ss 3eb exsang

[marble hemlock]

for aoe it definitely is, since its bolstering it might be too much aoe tho

so you might have to hold back a bit on packs with uneven health

[night vale]

Yeah i just find in dungeons like SoB the 3xEB is tricky

but if i just Toxic blade the prio target in between EB spam then it helps somewhat

as opposed to just spamming FoK with every GCD

[royal lantern]

instructions unclear

spammed FoK like an idiot and created a raidboss with bolstering

[night vale]

yeah for sure, depends on group comp though, if you have big blaster AOE people already then sure! 😄

[vestal wren]

if having aoe is an issue just consider subtlety 😛

i like the concept of using env to improve st damage (ttk is not necessarily needed for that)

[wooden crown]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[desert vault]

I did a 16 freehold and only did 27.5k overall running 3x eb, 2x as, 1x ttk. Feel like I'm doing something wrong. I beat the DH but shaman did like 29.5k.

[heavy skiff]

If u all were at that dps then maybe its tanks fault

[marble hemlock]

idk, doesnt sound that bad if the pulls were somewhat tame

cant really go big this week due to bolstering, so if its a pack at a time, that dps isnt too shabby, especially since your dps is more efficient than that of a shaman who just aoes mindlessly

[desert vault]

Pulls were small yeah. I'm like 406 equipped.

I didn't think it was awful but I always hear people saying sin rogues do 30k overall and I felt that was quite high.nit impossible but people would make it seem like that was the baseline for sin

[spice surge]

As seli said, overall depends heavily on how you pull

This week with bolstering overall numbers are generally going to be a lot lower

If you're always fighting 10 mobs then your overall dps is gonna be significantly higher than if you're always fighting 3 mobs

[marble hemlock]

for 406 and small pulls, 28k is perfectly fine

[jaunty arrow]

Its worth use Master poisoner with 3x DD + 1 np?

[desert vault]

Ok that makes me feel better about my m+ at least

[night vale]

yeah im running 3xEB and 3xSS... my outlaw rogue friend challenged me to an overall dps competition in freehold 16 (btw im mrgenpasmum... dont ask details nickname)

[heavy skiff]

Lul

[night vale]

he kept telling me to play outlaw :p i would but i dont have a decent 1 hander

[heavy skiff]

23 ms that must be nice...

I play at 200 xD

[night vale]

yikes! 200! fuck

[heavy skiff]

Welcome to latamerica

[night vale]

yeah im from UK so im fairly close to servers (think theyre still in paris)

[honest onyx]

Sup everyone, Zandalari or Orc 😄

[heavy skiff]

Its not that much of a diff tho

[solid nova]

Whatever you prefer

[heavy skiff]

Its just a great excuse when we need it

[honest onyx]

i like orc anim more, but regeneratin gor mage/rogue 2s seems OP 😄

[heavy skiff]

But spell que solves ms problem

[night vale]

oh really, i played around with spell queue delay but didnt really get how it works!

Do you just set it to like 200?

[heavy skiff]

Idk what my number is now

[lament dove]

orc animations are just so much better, I was looking forward to zandalari, but don't like how it moves:( so staying mag'har

[heavy skiff]

But i dont miss gcd that way

[night vale]

oh cool, well thats good then 😄

[heavy skiff]

It fucks me up if i want to play outlaw tbh

Cause its rly fast paced

And adrenaline rush reduces gcs

And then im at 5 cp wanna press a finisher but woops another ss

So embrace sins 30 apm lul

[dawn root]

Do the ideal traits change much between tyrannical and fort weeks? Like the amount of EB?

Say on tyrannical you could get by with 1 but on fort it's better to have 2?

[night vale]

i just run 3 regardless of affixes, its even better than mutilate on 2 targets so i get pretty good value out of it... obviously its insane on teeming, fortified weeks

[lament dove]

you're going with PB?

@night vale

[night vale]

yeah, nice ST boost when im running 3xEB 😃 and EB carries Aoe dmg anyway so i dont find i need CT

[spice surge]

@jaunty arrow Master poisoner doesn't increase double dose damage

So no

[dawn root]

By running 3x EB does that not hurt ST dmg

Or it's not that big of an issue?

[rancid bobcat]

It does

[desert vault]

37k overall ... yeah I should quit the game cause clearly I don't know how to play m+

[night vale]

nah yeah it hurts ST for sure,

[spice surge]

They likely pulled way bigger than you did

But there's probably also room for improvement

[night vale]

like tank had almost 17k as a blood dk, so yeah pull sizes probably helped

[spice surge]

Assa is a very hard spec to play perfectly in m+ with

[dawn root]

My only Eb shoulders have DD or NP on them. Neither are ideal for m+?

[strange python]

What even is considered good overall these days? Let's say a FH. This week's affixes. What is normal and what is good?

[dawn root]

That depends on so many things. How big pulls are, overall group comp

[night vale]

no idea, depends on pull size

yeah

[spice surge]

If you play with worse dps you'll get higher numbers too

Its way to variable to judge on

[wary ice]

I'd say any FH finished in time is p good

[night vale]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/twisting-nether/snimo

Thats my current m+ gear.... i just need to get the mythic version of the chest and im good to go for m+

[wary ice]

Using dps meters as a metric for something that is timable seems like a good way to get inconstent results across different metrics

[night vale]

yeah yeah, im not saying 37k was good or bad, im just saying i was having a competition with the outlaw rogue in my guild :p

there's not really any good way to tell if you're doing good dps in m+ as it depends on so many variables.

You can just look at how you do on individual keys compared to the other DPS i suppose

[desert vault]

37k is pretty nuts I'd say. I don't constantly spam fok like I should. I spend some time doing some st on priorities and stuff cause I'm in a pug.

I am running one ttk this week but could switch to 3x ss so maybe I will try that and see

I was keeping a ttk this week for bolstering target

[lone junco]

Green names everywhere.

[night vale]

like when i get home i can show dmg breakdown.

Usually garotte is like 25%, Echoing Blades is 20% and Fok is 15%

usually

[strange python]

Hmm well I wanna know if my Overall is good or bad. I want something to "aim" for

I time keys but you know what I mean ;) haha

[wary ice]

I'm saying i dont think your aim should be to have a certain overall

[desert vault]

I tried to figure out how to see dps numbers for m+ in warcraft logs but couldn't see numbers just score and stuff

[night vale]

Yeah I think it logs every run now on Warcraft logs but will only show you the report and damage numbers if someone in the group actually logs it

So it takes your key level and time and uploads that

But unless someone logs it you’re out of luck

[strange python]

I am aiming to time high keys. But it is still nice to see how you perform compared to other. And sins alot of people focus their attention on damage it would be nice to know what people normally do.

[chilly moth]

Is there list of mobs that were changed in 8.1.5, that no longer gives bolster/sang/bursting on death?

[rancid bobcat]

Nothing official

There was a thread on /r/competitivewow

[marble hemlock]

kingsrest minions still burst, so theres that

[chilly moth]

thanks

[wary ice]

I believe its non-elites

[primal gazelle]

did 40k in an atal last night 😮 not really sure how since its usually one of my lower overall dps dungeons

lost to the outlaw by 50 dps 😠

[idle vigil]

Anyone get banned

For xp pots

[royal lantern]

@primal gazelle did you pull different then ussual?

or tried another way

[primal gazelle]

i dont pay that much attention to routes tbh, i let the tank handle it and i just dps stuff lol

must be doing something right tho if im pumping significantly harder than everybody else that logged 😃

[vestal wren]

maybe your group is doing pulls more efficiently

[wary ice]

Ima say the hidden blade meme is real

[vestal wren]

i assume duration > dps

but times look good

[primal gazelle]

geez the highest outlaw log for atal is 40k logs, 48k while "active"

thats nuts

[vestal wren]

padding is real

[west cove]

i need some help please guys, here is my sim, i dont understand why 2 SS is better then 2 EB
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rHWqm5Y33WAcmoCmPGe5NM

[primal gazelle]

because dungeonslice is focused on 2-4 target cleaves and boss time

doesnt factor in reaping or big pulls

[west cove]

is hecticaddcleave better?

[primal gazelle]

not really, thats even less cleave

[west cove]

ah ok, so when i go into spam of knives, do i still dump it on rupture finishers, and still only 3 max 4?

[real bay]

envenom when you have enough bleeds for energy

[west cove]

ok so basically just 3 bleeds and dump into envenom

[real bay]

Just spamming fok will give higher dps but big mobs die slower then instead of envenoming them.. yeah

[west cove]

ah ok so spamming fok on reaping not so bad but bolster/fortified adds a bit worse?

[real bay]

just depends on your group setup

[west cove]

yesterday it was pally dps dh dps and me on ass rogue

[desert vault]

@primal gazelle how many bleeds are you putting up? Open with 3c garrote and 1x rupture then fok spam?

[round harbor]

https://gyazo.com/e1bbb93b5cc6bf87534769f71e7045e4 dayvanie its lonely at the top

but i actually dont know how thats rank 1

30.6k in siege seemslow

[sonic bridge]

who cares about that tho

[lost sentinel]

I didn't think logging was that prevalent in M+, I think I've been logged a grand total of maybe 2 times

[gusty plinth]

m+ logs lul

[vestal wren]

more logs = better for statistics

[distant lava]

cause in siege

you can never resteath from the point where you get last spotter

and it's just a constant fight where the spotter does all the dmg

so you can't even pad on all the mobs you do with him

[primal gazelle]

i kinda ignore siege/tol logs since the spotter/cannons skew most of the data

temple as well due to the padding in the orb room

@round harbor dps ranks starts with Highest Key --> Highest dps in that key

for example if i did a 25 siege but only did 5k dps, itll still be rank 1 compared to a 24 siege with 50k dps

[idle ember]

Likely simple question that's pestering me the more I think about it. If you have enough combos to get a 3 point envenom during TB but another second will net you a 4-5 outside the window. What do you do? At what point is it not worth it? 2 points?

[royal lantern]

never use envenom at 3cp

you waste too much energy for not enough dmg

[idle ember]

Alright thank you.

[lone junco]

@round harbor I've been running shrine m0 for that eb/SS hat. No luck yet. 2weeks

No eb on my 415 either.

One day

(Right before nerf prob)

[primal gazelle]

nerf outlaw first 😃

[sand canyon]

@lone junco still living the sin dream? ☹️

[lone junco]

Trying. But hpal main now.

[primal gazelle]

@sand canyon any bans on your team? 😛

[wary ice]

@idle ember you should always be able to get 2 envenoms into the TB window if u set it up correctly; so you wouldnt treat that situation any different than if you didnt have tb up in the first place

but the napkin math would roughly be: 3cp env w/ TB ~= 62% AP; 5cp Env w/o TB = 80%

so def not worth

[sand canyon]

@lone junco FeelsBadMan

@primal gazelle nah and don’t go mdi anyway

[scenic birch]

@sand canyon why not?

[sand canyon]

Not worth for me

[hardy mulch]

with ma/tb without ss do u van tb or env?

[buoyant coyote]

with MA do you use Vendetta->Vanish->TB when cd's up again?

trying it out atm

[wary ice]

I personally vendetta -> TB-> [mut to 4-5 if necessary]->vanish->env->mut -> env

I tihnk the more consistent option is vend->vanish ->TB env mut

but ifur playing MA, go for the fat burst, imo

[buoyant coyote]

Im just trying it out

[wary ice]

ur actively choosing the high rolling option, not going for high rolls seems dumb imo

[buoyant coyote]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5exZSLo4bmRcMUF6BmpkFj even tho subf sims higher

[wary ice]

yeah cause u have a SS trait

a lot of the afk regulars here will tell you subss is better; since very few of the raid fights are actually ST

I qualify that statement only because I have no personal experience with it either way and am just echoing the sentiments of better rogues

[plain thistle]

actually the oposite, the only fights that matter are single target

especially for melee dps

[wary ice]

for parsing, excuse me

[desert vault]

Any point is 3x EB, 2x SS, 1x TtK this week or just say screw it and go with 3x EB, 3x SS?

[wary ice]

seliathan has suggested 3xttk 2x eb 1x ss earlier this week

citing that the extra prio damage helps keep fat mobs inline with the lower health ones

I'm personally of the opinion that 3eb 3ss == just play outlaw

But i think the general concensus is any combination of ttk ss and eb will get you there this week

[desert vault]

heh, yeah 3x eb/ss is just poor man's outlaw 😃

[wary ice]

sel's advice may have been for high(19+) keys

[desert vault]

I can run 3x eb/ss with all 415s though which is nice

[wary ice]

😄 I wish i could assassin in M+ tbh

I'm rocking 3dd 3 NP; very few other options xd

I've done it w/ ma in keys before

really shitty until boss fights

then ur just ~20k opener ahead of everyone ~5k sustatined

I think i managed to pulla super fucking sick 30k in a reaping once

[desert vault]

I run small keys 12-15s is all for now. I might swap to 3x EB/SS for now

[outer ruin]

does my opener change with MA if I can get 4 gcds (just barely) within MA window? Usually only with lust easily, but I can also do this if I'm spamming hard with lowish latency. Namely I go garrote-> Mut -> Rupture -> Vanish+TB, but my sausage finger'sing both Vanish and TB at once usually means I miss my MA window. Is it worth hammering my TB as a 4th cd, then Vendetta -> Vanish -> Mut -> Envenom -> Mut -> Envenom?

[wary ice]

IDT u can actually get 4 gcds into MA

could be wrong though

Do you have logs?

[outer ruin]

none where I've tried for the 4th gcd in MA. I can do it in open world regularly though if I'm hammering my gcds

33ms, if that matters

[strange python]

How do you open with ma

When do you vendetta

[wary ice]

🤷 its really possible this is like the legion frost mage thing, where if ur X yds away and wth y spell queue you can fit an extra lance into the shatter window;

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[wary ice]

@strange python openers are covered there

@outer ruin without logs im going to say you probably arent actually getting 4 in 🤷

as a fun thought experiment, if you were to get 4 into a vanish

[outer ruin]

I'll do some raid logs tonight to see if I'm actually getting the MA buff during my 4th gcd, or if there's a latency gap between visual and actual information

[wary ice]

i imagine the ideal rotaiton would be enter vend w/ 3-4cp ->van -> tb -> env->mut ->env

[outer ruin]

hrm. so probably 2 gcds, one being a mut and one a vend between 1st MA and 2nd MA for opener

[wary ice]

on the opener i always vend on 4th gcd

no reason not to 🤷 MA and TB will fit in that window, gets the CD rolling faster

so a theoretical opner would be like garrote mut rup vend mut van [tb env mut env]

[strange python]

The guide says you vendetta into vanish tb with no cp

Is that wrong?

[wary ice]

its the most consistent option

[outer ruin]

Right, makes sense bullfango. Its what I've been doing sofar, and I guess you want vend rolling if you're going to push for an extra MA gcd

and ofc, 1 gcd of cd on vend

[latent gazelle]

Could someone fill me in on why Mag’har is so good for sin compared to Belfs and the rest? Is their ancestor racial that strong?

[wary ice]

they're like .10% higher than belfs iirc

But yeah their racial is + stats and lines up with every vendetta

turns out having more burst during all of our burst windows is P good

also most of the sims that put morc >Belf are ST

again, due to the augmented vendetta

[spice surge]

You can't get 4 gcds in ma

Gcd is always 1s as a Rogue

[wary ice]

That's what I had thought

[spice surge]

Thus it's impossible to get 4 spells in 3 seconds

[marble hemlock]

(technically you can get 4 spells in there, since for some reason vendetta GCD is affected by haste, so it can be lower than 1sec) 😄

[primal gazelle]

but why would you wanna cast vendeltta in a MA window 🤔

[marble hemlock]

exactly

[dark crag]

Vendetta, wait for gcd vanish, fire up

[marble hemlock]

its the same with subterfuge

you could vanish, vendetta, and still get 3 garrotes with the bonus out, but its not like it actually does anything

(and depending on ping you can still get screwed and lose one garrote)

[dark crag]

Yeah but 4 abilities that are 1 sec gcd don't work

[wary ice]

@marble hemlock ty for that mom load routw

[marble hemlock]

❤

not mine tho

fem made it (i think)

[latent gazelle]

Thanks for the info. Herodamage just shows morc being a little stronger(as racials go) then belf. I’m not a big min/maxer but I kinda need a change from belf for awhile after playing one for 7+years or more

[plain thistle]

"facial"

[latent gazelle]

Lol dam iPhone autocorrect

[strange python]

I am simming 400 lower today. what happened 😦

[wide ridge]

silly question, does master poisoner increase double dose's damage?

[wide delta]

hey quick question

been playing OL

switching now to sin in m+

are these traits any good?

http://prntscr.com/n1njr0

[sonic bridge]

herodamage

[vestal wren]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[lone junco]

@wide delta 2 2 2 is good. 3eb for more trash. def a good start.

[pale agate]

im running the same build except replace 1 EB with TC. having only 1 EB doesn't feel that bad even on fort this week, haven't tried >15 yet this week though

[spice surge]

@wide ridge no

[devout glen]

Any troll rogues here want to tell.me how annoying it js to work around 3 min racial? Want to swap from belf cuz im tired of it but want others opinion on how it is

[civic palm]

Press it with Vendetta > _>" ezpz

[devout glen]

Vendetta wont line until 3rd vendetta is it worth to use without vend or just always hold

[civic palm]

Holding something for 50% of the duration of the CD is rarely the right move.

[cobalt gyro]

When i use it in BoD, i just line it up w/galecallers

[devout glen]

Hm yeah thats sounds good was just wondering how much ud lose on just lazy macroing it to vende

[marble hemlock]

you can usually delay one of the beserkings to line up with vendetta, since its unlikely that you will lose out on one extra use because of that

most fights are either sub 6 minutes or 8+

so unless killtimes are ~7min, youre free to delay the 2nd or 3rd berserking. its not a dps loss until you lose out on one extra use

(keep in mind that using pull, 3min, 6min vs. using pull, 4min, 7min is no difference whatsoever, either way youre only getting 2vendettas with racial up - might really only be worth delaying if it leads to better trinket/proc lineups)

[devout glen]

Thanks for the advice, in keys it shouldnt matter too much and ill just look at fight times for raid and go off that

[marble hemlock]

ye, in keys id just hold it for bosses

and use it on big trash sections in between

macroing with vendetta in that case is perfectly fine. not optimal, but fine. 😉

[haughty mulch]

Do I take subterfuge is a have a ss trait?

[marble hemlock]

m+, yes. raid, gotta sim yourself.

[haughty mulch]

What if I have master assassin talented but also have a ss trait?

[marble hemlock]

the answer remains the same. play subterfuge for m+, sim yourself to see if MA or subterfuge is better for your singletarget

results differ based on more than just azerite traits

[haughty mulch]

Of course. But the rotation changes for both master and ss. Does one have a priority?

[marble hemlock]

you can read up on the different openers based on talent/trait setup in the official guide http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

has every combination of subterfuge/ma with ss/no ss

[haughty mulch]

Ahhhh okay! Appreciate it

Is there any combination of traits I should go for? Like 2 of so many ect?

[prime quail]

when not having 3 SS traits Master assasin talent instead of subterfuge ?

[marble hemlock]

[prime quail]

are other traits than SS worth in M+?

[marble hemlock]

Yes

[prime quail]

guess lots of aoe gets lost then

[marble hemlock]

Both EB and TTK are viable alternatives/additions to having multiple SS traits

And traits like tradewinds, blightborne infusion or even treacherous covenant all are decent choices as well

[prime quail]

is bloodmallet still right ?

[verbal mantle]

this kind of build works really well

[prime quail]

or is it mostly ST

[marble hemlock]

Rogue has a lot of traits to choose from and can tailor their azerite setup to whatever the dungeon, comp or affixes require

EB = AoE, SS = cleave and ST, TTK = prio and ST

so whatever you want/need, choose your traits accordingly

[verbal mantle]

and if you can get some OP in addition

[prime quail]

wahts about DD and NP ?

bloodmallet tells they are pretty far ahead

[civic palm]

For M+ they are pretty bad.

[verbal mantle]

for ST

[civic palm]

NP had a chance before EB became a thing.

[prime quail]

EB is ?

sorry :X

[civic palm]

Echoing Blades.

[marble hemlock]

DD/NP are pure singletarget traits, so if thats what you/your group wants, go for it. Overall they are some of the worst traits though since they dont provide any benefit whatsoever on AoE, which is what you spend most of your time on

[languid ore]

Would I fair better this raid tier adding in ss? I have a should that has DD/SS but Sims wants me to go with winds instead and stay MA

But I see a lot of top tier playing with 1 ss

🤔

[shadow agate]

So I purely run M+, clearing 15-16 every week. Been running mainly a SS/EB build, just don't have the TTK traits. Can buy a 415 every three weeks. Worth to buy 400 for traits, since I can upgrade to 405, or wait?

[strange python]

should i spam underrot for the dagger 🤔

I have no daggers

[fickle viper]

@marble hemlock community figure

[shadow agate]

my question as tldr, ilvl vs traits at 400-415

[desert vault]

finally did over 30k in a dungeon, jeez

it is all about the padding with 3x EB/SS, crazy

[brave rampart]

I mean its also trash week so its kinda a beetch for us.

[desert vault]

that 3rd SS makes such a big difference

goes from 30-35k on most small packs to 40-45k it feels like

[brave rampart]

EB is what I notice the most value out of.

Even just a single trait is a massive jump.

[desert vault]

in shrine do you have to sap/distract anything when you shroud the bridge before 3rd boss?

[visual quartz]

Guess its padding but things still gotta die

[latent gazelle]

can feral druids use daggers?

[dusk pond]

Equip? Yes. Optimal? No.

[fallen bridge]

what should I run for wep enchants double quick or deadly/quick

[topaz axle]

never double of anything

[solar bramble]

whatever your 2 main stats are.

i use deadly/quick but if you do pure m+ then quick might not be the best 2nd