I havent had a rogue bud that stays for longer then 2-3 weeks in a while now
#assassination
primal gazelle
@marble hemlock was jaqt toxic
carmine silo
What zandalari loa would you folks recommend?
primal gazelle
or was it saber
marble hemlock
was raiding with saber, ye
mystic charm
I have 4 variations for m+ gear. 2xTTK+2xSS+2xEB - or 2xTTK+1xSS+3xEB - or 1xTTK+2xSS+3xEB - and finally 3xTTK+1xSS+2xEB
@marble hemlock halp
marble hemlock
id play the last one
but thats a highkey build
2/2/2 is fine for most situations
mystic charm
Hmm, I see
primal gazelle
watching Lightee set up his assa rogue for MDI.. and the traits he choose are 3 ss 1 blight, 1 NP 1 TC, High haste/mas Build
guess he missed the memo for ttk/eb
harsh sphinx
could be for KR / temple
primal gazelle
yea probably
mystic charm
mdi keys gonna be low though, compared to live keys i think
marble hemlock
ttk for MDI is not a good idea imo
i run 3ss 2bbi 1eb
weve got outlaw+ele or outlaw+monk for aoe already
primal gazelle
ah he says he'll only play it for KR
sand dirge
how am i supposed to play hidden blades in m+?
marble hemlock
you dont
primal gazelle
you play normally and pretend its not there
dark crag
i looked at the wowhead assa azerites reccomended for dungeons and i have all 3 pieces
3ss 3eb
sand dirge
2ss 3eb or 3ss 2eb this week? 🤔
ruby idol
@marble hemlock i have seen no light i have joined no club im a renegade!
marble hemlock
literal outlaw
ruby idol
Many surprises on their way :)
ruby idol
Assa feels like best rogue spec to me
primal gazelle
double rog comps inc
ruby idol
Ive said too much
marble hemlock
i mean
everyone just gonna copy our strats
of double rogue
😦
but ye, i ran some 2BBI assa last night
felt great on bosses
ruby idol
Yes exactly double rogue is the play no jebait!
marble hemlock
inb4 unholy undad
primal gazelle
a rogues job is to provide utility to tricks and make sure the UDK doesnt die to aggro when they burst for 500k dps
marble hemlock
just have the tank clap
primal gazelle
a DH's job is to buff udks dmg
marble hemlock
2rogue 1ww is the comp
marble hemlock
kegsmash
round harbor
Lightningclap
ruby idol
OK STOP
marble hemlock
friend told me a few months back that only issue with enhance is the wolf rng
if you get the shitty wolves on aoe it kinda sucks
but i guess crash lightning carries hard enough
ruby idol
Oh ya it does 0 aoe dmg always
round harbor
I mean ya I do good boss dmg on my shitty geared enh
golden relic
Can someone just bust out a surv hunter
1 of u
just for the memes
jebait ppl into re rolling
umbral fiber
bring retri or riot
round harbor
That'll be the meta
strange python
Survival has amazing single target.
primal gazelle
are you running 3 ss 3 eb for the mdi
marble hemlock
nah
harsh sphinx
what if the 2 rogues pushes them over the edge to nerf 
marble hemlock
primal gazelle
what are you running then
marble hemlock
3SS 2BBI 1EB
round harbor
CT MY EYES THEY BURN
harsh sphinx
giga crit from azerite instead of the trinkets that sounds nice
harsh sphinx
guess so 1 EB. ah i see
marble hemlock
but that build is pretty nutty on ST
round harbor
Seli have u tested the on equip pvp trinket
marble hemlock
the agi one?
round harbor
That thing is fucking nutty
round harbor
900+ agi on a 40% uptime is slick
round harbor
Nah
marble hemlock
nah, didnt get a chance to test the vers+agiproc one
primal gazelle
when does the mdi start
ruby idol
When they put reaping on the TR
marble hemlock
timetrials start tomorrow 3pm cet
round harbor
My team was like yeah let's practice our routes n shit. I'm like bruh half of the dungeon isn't even there
marble hemlock
you can just do m0
after doing a 15 or w/e
you get +14 key with this weeks affixes
and can change those with the scrolls from vendor
and keep the reaping
marble hemlock
😦
but ye, we just practiced some wonky shit
and not gonna do much until we know the keys/they fix reaping
MDI is already a meme again
glad i dont care about it
round harbor
Are you gonna compete for top end?
marble hemlock
nah
round harbor
Same
marble hemlock
top8 in one of the weeks would be nice
round harbor
Yeah like our group can't commit the time to push for like the next 2 months every weekend
cosmic pier
Have any aussie players that applied for tourney realm gotten an email from blizz yet? really hoping my team gets in
marble hemlock
same
round harbor
And honestly we aren't good enough
marble hemlock
josh is at twitchcon during 2nd cup, so gotta fold for that one
round harbor
Compared to others
marble hemlock
and 3rd one is during first mythic progress week
so if the tier isnt a meme, josh/phil will have to be ready for progress instead
round harbor
Ya I'm in a shitty guild so the mythic prog thing doesn't get in my way too much. We just arjt good enough players and time
Like I'm only 2.2kish but if had the time I feel like could be in the 2.5-7 range honestly
Butfuckit
fierce sluice
Hey guys - is it useful to have atleast 1SS trait for raiding, or should I just go with NP/DD/TC?
umbral fiber
Probaly personal feeling, I kept 1 SS cause I like the rota more and its more enjoyable to play for me
sonic bridge
any1 here from eu silvermoon?
umbral fiber
But I also run 3 DD and 2 NP on top of it
round harbor
@fierce sluicenothing wrong with keeping a ss, but likely that you'll sim higher in a MA build
sick cradle
According to Wowanalyser I shouldn't cast TB during MA, but according to the guide I should? Is wowanalyser just wrong?
fierce sluice
hmm, alright, thanks!
sturdy python
Wow analyzer is not updated for rogues, so probably
round harbor
There is two thoughts on it. Idk which or if they even got confirmed which is better
Vanish tb envm mut or vanish envm mut envm
marble hemlock
if you do vanish env mut env, its better to do env mut mut if the first mut was 2cp
round harbor
With the second you are praying for a mut crit whereas the first you will have somewhat consistent dmg in openers
marble hemlock
cause at that point DD crit will be more valuable than env crit 😃
primal gazelle
@round harbor the difference between 2.2k and 2.5k+ IO is like one key level, 18+ all dungeons to 19+ all dungeons
round harbor
Yeah
primal gazelle
just need good rng to get the right keys
round harbor
And enough mental fortitude to grind out harder dungeons
primal gazelle
my goal for the season is just 21+ all dungeons which is about 2850-2900 IO and ill be happy with that
round harbor
I've been getting into some better pugs recently though so that's encouraging
primal gazelle
maybe touch 3k by end of tier and retire
round harbor
Same
3k is the ultimate goal
But it's gonna come down to what school work I have during push week
Oh and I did a keybwith another sin rogue
HB was better fornsure
primal gazelle
double sin rog? 😮
primal gazelle
nice
round harbor
Was gonna send it to you butninforgot
lucid geyser
Hey guys, quick azerite gear and aoe feelycraft question.
I have 3 very good ST i415 pieces ( double dose and all the shazam )but none of those pieces have echoing blade. I have 3 i400 pieces that all have EB tho.
What kind of balance do you recommend for m+ ? I'm really not sure how many pieces to downgrade equiping for the trait there.
round harbor
The dmf difference was roughly like 1.4m more for hb
primal gazelle
did he play CT or pb
primal gazelle
have u converted to sin now lol, no more outlaw?
round harbor
And I really like outlaw in fh not because the dmg, but because you can stand further away on first boss and hit shark entire time
round harbor
And on Harlan you get CDs every 30% boss hp
spark pike
is it bad to stack nothing personal in single target fight ?
primal gazelle
but outlaw cant evasion powder shot 😛
round harbor
Yeah
primal gazelle
youll have vendetta up for the 30% burn on last boss
lost horizon
Can vanish it though
round harbor
There may be a way to avoid that mechanic all the way tho
We need to test it some more tho
primal gazelle
sin's cleave is also stronger on 2nd boss
lost horizon
That's true
round harbor
Grappling is super nice though
round harbor
I mean, Eb and HB means you fok St
At 19+ stacks I think the number is
So yeah of it's gonna be good on 2
primal gazelle
i think of it as a free aoe envenom every 40 secs
strange python
so talking about fok hb; should that be ignored when pulling?
pulling adds that is
round harbor
What do you mean pulling adds
strange python
sorry; long day at work; during an add pack, fok shouldnt be held at all to accumilate stacks am i correct?
round harbor
Correct
lost horizon
I mean, probably worth if it's like 2 mobs and reaping is going to hit after
round harbor
Only time I hold it is at the end of a pack when the mobs are like sub 10 percent and there is a decent size pull ajead
strange python
right
okay so i'm doing that part properly good.
also swapped from outlaw to sin, and loving sin a lot more atm
3x eb + hb is just too gud
main mirage
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
idle vigil
Does hb actually compete with PB?
primal gazelle
with 3 EB, and on aoe yes
potent oracle
i drop king rest trinket 405 , its good with boralus one ?
how is possible to im better the motherlode one vs boralus
umbral fiber
having 2 actives not really favourable I guess
strange python
hi guys what is the best loa for zandalari ?
sonic bridge
yo is nelf ideal for rogues in m+ on alliance?
primal gazelle
yes
stuck knoll
@strange python Paku
potent oracle
and the best horde race for mythics ?
rigid mango
I can't entirely remember, I think you might get 3x garrotes out
sonic bridge
sonic bridge
it was either troll or maghar for m+ iirc
potent oracle
but dont want damage
rigid mango
Still think Belf is pretty neat for m+
sonic bridge
belf has silence
sturdy python
In m+ you meld so you can restealth. Can’t restealth in boss fights so meld>garrote gives you ss benefit but not subterfuge
sonic bridge
ok well it doesnt give sub buff
hardy spire
how many targets should i be multidotting with garrote and rupture?
atomic saddle
I'm thinking about PB or HB for this week, how is HB performing with 2x EB compared to PB?
primal gazelle
i wouldnt use with 2 EB, minimum 3
mint peak
I tried HB with 3 EB and the time it really shines is when you’re killing shit mobs. It’s definitely viable but I prefer PB because it seems to be more meaningful damage. Feels bad to not only have 3 traits that do little on a boss but also your 110 talent be useless on a boss too. Fortified bosses on high enough keys still need you to pump
idle vigil
@sonic bridge @rigid mango you can get sub on non boss pulls
Just press shadowmeld then stealth
round harbor
Eb and HB ate impactful on bosses
Maybe not as much as you feel pb does, but they aren't useless traits or talent
mint peak
Useless was a bit strong but they’re definitely less impactful. Just felt like I was essentially wracking up massive damage that was mostly the easiest to do in exchange for damage in harder segments
round harbor
Ok
That's from the 18fh with both sin rogues
First boss
I'd hardly say it's less impactful
mint peak
Hmm thanks for sharing. Guess that’s why feelcrafting is dumb. Can you link the log of the whole run?
hollow stone
Yea. Losing 10k boss dmg is nothing. Thats like 1/3 of an envenom. And eb is almost def better on your avg trash pull
Hb
W/e
-the potential dps from having the energy of those 3 foks he did
So lets call it 1.5 envs
golden relic
@primal gazelle im using a 375 head so i can run your meme shit, its acctually pretty fun haha, did a FH 15 just spamming fok is pretty hilarious
got 40% crit
marble hemlock
its the equivalent to the Pepega Barrage DHs
comparing pure dmg of abilities isnt the only part tho. the energy you spend on the fok couldve been spent on an ability that generates more CP
esp with a high crit build
round harbor
At a slight energy discount vs mutilate
I mean I'm not gonna argue that it's better, more that it's fairly close
marble hemlock
(which also deals damage)
round harbor
Yeah
marble hemlock
idk, i ran 3EB/HB once, and then I ran 3EB/CT, and the CT one just felt a lot better and also had better results 🤷
round harbor
It basically just turns fok into a cp generating cheaper finisher
In a single target scenario
marble hemlock
i also thought that PB is kinda of a non-factor in aoe, but with a 3ttk build it actually contributes with 8-10%
so i wouldnt discount PB for AoE scenarios
obv its hard to draw comparisons directly
marble hemlock
but PB sitting at 7-8% overall over the entire dungeon is quite different to what it was during early BfA when we played differently/had lower stats and it was sitting at ~3-4%
primal gazelle
waste of combo points imo when you could spread ruptures instead
marble hemlock
why spread ruptures on reaping tho?
just snipe low-hp mobs for energy
and spam more fok/ct if you specced into it
primal gazelle
well its a waste regardless
fok has a higher DEP than ct
why even cast CT
only benefit is to keep up EP
primal gazelle
reaping will die before CT dot ticks off
spice surge
But its only marginally higher, not like 30% higher
primal gazelle
and reaping comes in waves, youll have to CT multiple times to get dots on all target
spice surge
Its like 5-10% higher DPE
primal gazelle
CT also offers 0 ST value compared to HB
HB maybe minor ST, but at least its not 0
novel rapids
What do u think about my stats for raiding
marble hemlock
sry, raid rn
primal gazelle
the risen souls in reaping dies fairly quickly, even in high keys, CT will lose value vs those
burst dmg > dot dmg
marble hemlock
no one cares about risen soul dmg tho
primal gazelle
pad lords like myself does
marble hemlock
and spending 105energy on 100k damage, instead of 2mutilates which generate more CP
is such a minor ST improvement
marble hemlock
if we bring traits into the discussion, it might actually be a loss tho
its not as black and white
same as "pb does no damage on aoe"
primal gazelle
youre the one that brought up 3 EB + HB, and then 3 EB + CT
lol
thats what im replying to
strange python
At how many targets do you spam FoK @ with 3xEB?
haughty mulch
Any builds that can go off of 21% crit 20% haste and virtually no mastery? Trying to swap from outlaw for raiding.
bleak spoke
just play what sims tell you to play
stats like mastery impact your meter but not your playstyle etc
haughty mulch
Just wasn’t sure if it could be as simple as swapping Azerite pieces and throwsing in daggers and following the rotation. Not sure what traits to run, looks like I have a lot of simming ahead of me
bleak spoke
try to work your versa heavy outlaw slots into mastery heavy assa slots
it really is taht simple though
storm pilot
if u get displaced at opulence u get the dot from flames of punishment while u have the -100% dmg reduction?
storm pilot
Thats not an answer for my question 😄
bleak spoke
i said you don't
bleak spoke
LOL
storm pilot
:^)
haughty mulch
Which my st with outlaw falls between 17-21k so I don’t know if I would need to switch for mythic raiding.
potent oracle
guys 3 mutilate 3 nothing personal is out bis for raid ?
bleak spoke
17-21 is fine
i'd say it's more like 16-24 for the edge case 5 buff rolls
but
you're gonna get like 21-22 with assa gear of the same level usually
haughty mulch
Oh yeah, 5 rolls and I go insane 😂
bleak spoke
but if your stats are wack outlaw might be better
haughty mulch
Thanks for the input, I’ll probably learn a bit more and try to at least stat it a bit better before swapping
bleak spoke
i'd say the strength of assa is that mechanics affect you less
and some mechanics are beneficial to your dps
like on M opulence for example i'm begging to get swapped
cuz if i just get swapped once i'm top dam for the rest of the fight lol
cuz multidotting
naive cypress
@marble hemlock Are you streaming anymore?
storm pilot
my raid says u get the dot from me flames of punishment
bleak spoke
it's live right now @naive cypress
haughty mulch
I figured that outlaw would be best for opulence
storm pilot
-me
bleak spoke
your raid needs to stop moving
you're actually safe if you get swpaped for 10 seconds
storm pilot
yeah but its only about the dot not the dmg
bleak spoke
i played outlaw for opulence prog cuz we had many pulls and it got a little boring
the dot won't do damage to you if you don't move if it gets applied, which i'm 99% sure it doesn't
also if they make you take red you should play outlaw @haughty mulch
haughty mulch
I usually grab the opal.
bleak spoke
you can funnel a lot of boss damage with opal
haughty mulch
But what I’m gathering is that swapping to Assassin would only be a few thousand dps increase. If I don’t get really good rolls
bleak spoke
you have different roles as assa and outlaw on opp
don't listen to them tisumi
ttk or die
strange python
If I can only go for 1 maybe 2 EB traits, is it even wroth it to try this EB/HB build?
primal gazelle
3 eb or die
bleak spoke
i wouldn't play it without 3 D:
strange python
without drastically lowering my ilvl
primal gazelle
or ultimate meme 3 eb 3 ttk MA yolo build
primal gazelle
combine both memes into 1 ultimate meme
bleak spoke
has theorycrafting gone too far?
primal gazelle
LOL
marble hemlock
might aswell go triple tradewinds triple incite the pack and buff your group
gonna be more grp damage
than playing that build
primal gazelle
LOL
bleak spoke
LOL
dude play nightstalker
so you can blow your load
on one huge hidden blade fok
buoyant coyote
On Conclave mythic is it better focus the main target or multi bleed for extra energy ?
spice surge
Only go ST
strange python
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cTo86MVKSNNr3ba6HWkDyD
is this even worth it?
spice surge
Multidotting is not worth
bleak spoke
IB kidney on raptors 
spice surge
Well, multidotting boss isnt worth
strange python
i only ever multi dot in pakus tbh
bleak spoke
yeh that boss is an ST fight pretending to be a multitarget fight innit
spice surge
Even if things are standing next to each other
Its still not really worth to multidot
strange python
yeah, i mean. thats the only time id ever do it
bleak spoke
not much E regen unless it's a dying raptor right
spice surge
Assuming damage to the second target isnt relevant
Its not worth to snipe a raptor for energy
Since 5 cp is worth more than 80 energy
strange python
even if theyre near boss? just building 5 on boss then rupturing raptor?
strange python
oh, yeah i gotcha
usually before they spawn, ill build and hold 5, rupture a raptor then dps it, when that next 5 is up, if another raptor is close ill dot that also
like, im not gonna waste a SS on a raptor just to dot it tbh
bleak spoke
oh okay
lone junco
did you try subtornado?
strange python
tempted to see how 3DD/NP sims against DD/TC
round harbor
Neither
strange python
dont have tc yet. which is why i said im tempted
last i simmed, tc was miles higher than np but idk if that changes per traits acquired
near wigeon
Hey Guys , it is Worth to Drop one DD Trait + Filthy Trans for a Second NP and Treacherous Covenant ?
what do you think
ripe nimbus
On conclave multidot question it is benefical to multidot both bosses if the one ur focusing is going to die u just leave it and go to the other one to pre apply ur bleeds. I usually head over at like 5%
Technically thats pushin the term "multidot" tho
And yah i ignore the raptors besides hittin the closest one with a 4+ CP kidney internal bleeding
wary ice
why would it be beneficial to multi dot both bosses before one dies and the other is healed to full?
I'm not sure i understand
is it just to have bleeds ticking when you swap?
ripe nimbus
So ur not wasting GCDs to apply bleeds and they are already tickin
pulsar goblet
But u are wasting gcds that could be put into doing damage on the low boss
ripe nimbus
What damage at 5% most ur gonna get out is 1 or 2 more muts then ur going to get a shit ton of energy from that target dying with rupture and most likely going to energy cap if u wait till its dead to swap
Basically i time it so i have garrote and rupture tickin on the next boss basically when the "focus" one dies which visually is usually around 5% for my group
primal gazelle
@marble hemlock would you mind logging one of your runs doing 3 EB + CT, id like to collect some data 
marble hemlock
i dont play CT anymore
primal gazelle
im sure youll run a pleb key here from time to time
ripe nimbus
All keys are pleb keys if u believe hard enough
civic palm
and FoK hard.
ripe nimbus
It isnt really if u wait till one is dead before swapping u have downtime on garrote and rupture
civic palm
Applying DoTs in circle transition to both bosses is completely fine when once of the bosses is nearing death.
wary ice
k i get it now
civic palm
or if your raid keeps them just outside their buff range, as it's pretty small.
golden relic
but
its still overthinking talking about GCds n stuff
like it wont make a huge difference
civic palm
More importantly, you should be on the next boss the literal moment the prior dies, having even 50% duration bleeds is better than having to build to them.
That's actually quite a bit of lost DPS.
royal lantern
holy shit
1st time 3xDD, didnt thought that it will do such a huge part of your dps
proven wasp
im jealous
civic palm
It's not buggy like this - https://i.imgur.com/OWMJO9s.png
royal lantern
and that are 40sec->wipe cus we just started on stormwall lol
ripe nimbus
Kingsbane my heart 
civic palm
TB2.0hNo
golden relic
im not saying you should have rupture downtime etc, I mean u swapping to the boss before the other early on to put dots on is pointless unless the the 1 is basically dead and even then you could have CPs off the one that dies, step and apply them on the next
ripe nimbus
Yes and that "is about to die" is around 5% for my group i have time to step hit garrote and apply 5 CP rupture right when the focus one dies
Im not understandin what ur trying to argue
golden relic
Im not argueing, you think this is an arguement? Someone asked about multidotting, i doubt they meant swapping is what I mean
if its worth to rupture the other boss
while dpsing
pulsar goblet
The damage difference whichever way you do it is probably irrelevant so just do it however you want to lol
ripe nimbus
Type less triggered please.
golden relic
I dont think im the one who seems triggered my friend
ripe nimbus
Okay bye
civic palm
Both of you chill out > _>
The damage difference will be larger when you are in BL/Hero and applying DoTs.
pulsar goblet
Couldn't you just build combo points on the boss taking damage and then step and instantly apply dots like he proposed
Just get those extra mutilates off for combo points seems fine no?
civic palm
and be done 70NRG?
Sorry 80.
and then also have to wait the 1.6 or so seconds for VM regen?
Just apply them in the circle when you are transitioning bosses.
sand canyon
Garrote 123
civic palm
1 2 3 4
Musclebruh
lone junco
I mean are we really talking about pre rupturing an aspect before it heals to full, so you lose no downtime without rupture ticks after the transition. INSTEAD of using ENV on the dmg target while you are damaging it?
saving the 3 rupture ticks before you step to the next target and get a rupture up.
😐
civic palm
Yep, apply during circle boss transition if the prior is close.
You're probably standing between the two of them anyway.
civic palm
Yarrr.
IIRC this boss is something like a 7y empower.
So they can be fucking hugging.
upper lintel
How should I think with regarding buying azerite gear for Titanium? Is it smarter to get a random 415 or a specific 400?
stuck knoll
You can't buy a specific 400
upper lintel
Oh, now I feel bad xD
I have 2.5k and running with 2 slots with 385 in, is it smarter to save or buy random?
rapid compass
wats a good envenom uptime for a boss like grong where theres basicly no movement
spice surge
You shouldnt focus on envenom uptime
As good envenom uptime will come with good play automatically, its a bi-product of playing overall well
civic palm
Yeah, but there's still an average that people tend to reach through normal play.
and having under that average, given mostly uptime can be a symptom with a few causes.
Though even if you never intend to clip I doubt you lose much of that uptime.
storm pumice
I had 71% envenom uptime on a decent grong parse, I've never given a single thought to maintaining it, listen to the boys here, it comes naturally with a good rotation anyway
storm pumice
and traits... and.. and....
civic palm
Like I said, causes.
atomic saddle
Still trying to figure out how well HB performs with 2xEB on Fortified when grinding +10 keys compared to PB. What you guys think? And with 2xEB from how many targets do I start FoK instead of Mutilate?
primal gazelle
dont use hb with 2 eb
atomic saddle
FoK+EB makes 13.7% and 10.6% of my damage (e.g for the last SoB run). PB was 4.4% (1.87 million) overall. I imagine HB still being stronger because you FoK so much and the downtime between pulls is basically a dps gain or is HB not as strong as it feels in theory?
marble elm
slim socket
Is this real life or its just fantasy?
latent gazelle
On Jes Howlis in TD. is it Evasion or cloak that works on his flying daggers?
neat pecan
Hey guys, do you also have this bug, which is not being able to use shadowstep while using shroud of conealment ? It says that the target I try to shadowstep to is "invalid target"
@latent gazelle evasion
latent gazelle
ah sweet ty!
idle vigil
You can’t step to an invis target
neat pecan
i could do it before, weird
latent gazelle
i havent had that problem yet. it usually works for me
they arent technically invisbale to you tho so you should be able to
slim socket
They changed it in latest patch i believe
neat pecan
Did they change it recently ? Cause i could do it before, for instance,while skipping to 1st boss on Freehold
latent gazelle
^^
neat pecan
aaa, okay
latent gazelle
well that sucks
slim socket
Imo its blizzard way to encourage ppl to exploit op outlaw because u can still use hook in shroud 
neat pecan
@slim socket daamn, time to reroll to Outlaw i guess
neat pecan
Hopefully 😛
dark crag
Can someone confirm this?
atomic saddle
From how many targets do we use FoK instead of Mutilate when we have 2xEB and 3xEB?
crisp dove
Sup guys...just recently switched from running SS and went to MA...the rotation seems clunky during the vanish, what's the perfect rotation? Is it the same as on the site?
rapid compass
i run MA and its easy to get used to, i usually pop vendetta and mut to 4+ cps, vanish envenom , mut, envenom/mut
u only get like 2-4 abilities in the window and u want them spent only on envenoms and muts
crisp dove
So it's better to load up on CP before hitting vansh
rapid compass
yes
if i fuck timings up and vanish comes off cd like 5 secs b4 rupt falls off i wont refresh it actually, better to go 1 or 2 secs without it than to refresh during the window
warm harbor
anyone been using the TTK build mcuh in m+? any good?
rapid compass
the wat?
languid ore
If I have 3 cps I vanish+tb which usually gives me 5 then envenom mut env on 4
I think that's right
Usually all falls into critical window
rapid compass
wow analyzer suggests otherwise so i just kinda go with it lol probly small dps change if at all
languid ore
I don't know if wow analyzer is any good
But you can check thru raidbots
When you Sim it on bottom right it will have an html
Click that and find your opener
warm harbor
the twist the knife build, basically 2x SS 2x EB 2x TTK and pump envenoms into prio traget
gilded trellis
Why 2 ss?
round harbor
Cause ss owns?
harsh sphinx
for the boys, who needs EB anyways? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GNafJTmXB3dPkD7n/#fight=last&type=damage-done
primal egret
when do i use bursting blood over agi pot?
crisp dove
Treacherous Covenant or NP...?
crisp dove
rgr
spice surge
@primal egret Never as assa
mossy adder
Why is double dose and tc simming higher for me than multiple np?
primal egret
thanks eelm
round harbor
Multiple NP is good if you need huge burst windows
mossy adder
Good im not going crazy
round harbor
Like on jaina I'm gonna run triple NP triple DD I think
primal egret
thats what im doing it pumps
mossy adder
For what reason? Veen running triple dd 1tc 1np and eng helm and its doing c well
On jaina
spice surge
Idk on jaina you should just run 3 gutripper if possible
primal egret
i dont want tc
mossy adder
And cloaking 2nd ring to pop vendetta on cd 🤠
primal egret
dont wanna take extra dmg
spice surge
That extra damage part
Is essentially never active
In raids you are extremly rarely below 20%
round harbor
And if you are, your probly fucked either way
mossy adder
Yee haha
mossy adder
I see a lot of outlaw parses for m jaina is there a particular advantage to playing it over assa?
spice surge
For wits stacks
spice surge
Its a massive ST gain
mossy adder
Didnt think of that
coarse quartz
any tips for stormwall blockade
mossy adder
Just thought for energy
spice surge
From multidotting if damage to the second target isnt relevant
round harbor
Don't stand in seaswell
spice surge
Its not worth spending 5cp and multiple melee swings to get 80 energy
coarse quartz
we're doing a strat on the boat that you drop the swell on the your unique spot
constantly
to save space
mossy adder
Tups for the boat is dont drop the patches near where the adds will spawn
That can be annoying for melee
dark crag
Green, it was green
mossy adder
Csnt touch the add due to stuff on ground
coarse quartz
on pull like 4 of m stormwall i think we're running into that issue
civic forge
do sims have a good apl for the triple eb/ss build setup?
in multi target sims i mean
bronze kelp
leaden seal
With 3x 415 double dose is Subterfuge or Master Assassin better?
opaque relic
How do u sim for m+ during fortified/tyrannical? Same for both? And what fight style? (Dungslice, 5x patchwerk for 40 sec)
rose perch
Generally master assassin will be better on pure single target, as long as you don't have any shrouded suffocation traits along with those DD traits
leaden seal
That's what I thought but I'm still pushing 19.1k on Mythic Mekka, with subterfuge and only 18.2 with Master Assassin. with 3x double dose. Comparing 5 pulls for each talent where there was no downtime with bots.
@rose perch a reply from the legend himself.
rose perch
interesting! yeah definitely not surprised to see MA simming higher - maybe you're more used to the subterfuge rotation though and executing it better which is what's making it appear better? I don't think there's anything that should have it underperforming its sim in the real world on fights like mekka
leaden seal
Which makes it frustrating to be stuck at 90% parse
Hmmm, guess it's just user error then. r i p
@rose perch Thanks tho, and appreciate all the routes lol
crisp shard
Mekka itself is also a very bad comparison for consistent dmg, as parsing on that fight is 90% down to which mechanics you get @leaden seal
leaden seal
Agreed. But I'm specifically trying to minmax for mekka atm, so thats why I compared 5 pulls for each talents, and only pulls where I didn't get in a bot.
atomic saddle
Can anyone confirm that it is still Haste > Crit > Mastery > Versa? Most high end geared rogues that i generate stat weights with (patchwerk 5 min) have Mastery as their highest stat followed bei either haste or crit.
civic palm
Recent traits mangled the weights a little, make sure you compare Top Gear whenever you get what might be an upgrade.
atomic saddle
Ye sure, I'm far from top geared right now cuz its my second rogue I am gearing but I want to make a BiS list for M+ and I need weights that count when I'm done, not whie I'm gearing up.
worldly iron
well that's gonna be impossible
covert crag
Just sim gear compare with every possible combination of m+ gear 
atomic saddle
LUL
vivid bone
Well, he's not wrong
atomic saddle
The thing is I am 399 right now and I'm going to craft my profession stuff today so I need an idea of what combination of stats I aim for. For M+ haste is pretty bad compared to crit / mastery and appearently Haste is not even the best on ST in every circumstance so maybe I should just aim for mastery / crit?
atomic saddle
Both tbh
atomic saddle
But mastery even pulls ahead on Patchwerk fights from what I've simmed so far with fully geared rogues that pass the 25k dps mark and have ST traits
covert crag
Probably cus they have alot of haste cus they are optimized
I dont have my DD traits on rn but I sim 25.6k and haste is biggest prio for me still
I have around1k haste and 1.2k mastery, 3xdd 1xttk 1xNP 1x blightborne
vivid bone
and crit?
covert crag
Also around 1k
vivid bone
pretty nice stats you got there
vivid bone
200iq move
civic palm
Armory doesn't show stats right, never has.
covert crag
Dont have my st gear on either
covert crag
Did probably round my stats up a bit tho
civic palm
WCL should yeah.
There's something about not counting enchants or w/e on the armory, it's just fucked.
vivid bone
warcraftlogs seems to be the same as armory for me.
civic palm
Whelp
patent topaz
couldnt get 20 for a raid yesterday, a lot of good people quit after uldir
rip this tier
covert crag
atomic saddle
might be the best bet for me to just craft all the stuff and take whatever has no versa on it...
strange python
So even and nice.... top gear aswell. Not something I aimed for lol
vivid bone
OCD satisfied
covert crag
atomic saddle
looks so good
covert crag
And then vers is at 3.43
strange python
Also have 5 vers. But 4% avoidance.... ruins eveything
covert crag
Haste is fun imo
royal lantern
haste does pretty much everything for us, so i dont see it going down by much
devout jolt
Haste is #2 for me and I only have 18%...
covert crag
Could you link your sim for me please? just curious
strange python
Haste is nr1 for me aswell. I wish I had more or that I get Ceph soon... 3xOP would be so... so damn nice
covert crag
Not having BiS 415 azerite 
echo cargo
Still using a 400 helm here. Thanks 900 weeks of mythic champions 
covert crag
I got mine on the first kill 
royal lantern
all 3 BiS raid pieces
covert crag
Cephalohide + gorak tuls + champions helm 
royal lantern
champions + jadefire + mekka chest
pastel crow
worldly iron
you overwrote your empowered garrote on your opener, I'm pretty sure
umbral fiber
Panda rogue Pog
worldly iron
my reaction to his rogue
I know this doesn't really belong here, but it's just a one time reaction to his panda 
oh yikes, definitely not doing that again. sorry
covert crag
royal lantern
im used too it, dont worry lol
the race just makes it better when you gank xXxsKiLLidÄnxXx trust me ;P
strange python
I am simming very good but I parse "bad". And looking at logs. I think we do very strange tactics for some of the bosses. Or just slow kills. Does that affect the rogue parse more due to how the MA+Vandetta window works?
royal lantern
hard too say without looking at your logs
but always rember that ''good''parse is pretty much luck based on most fights except when you just try too pad for dps(wich is not a good thing)
violet yew
Padding is life
royal lantern
never got shrunk on mekka, 2x big and 0 bombs on you? high chance your logs are really good without yourself doing anything special
3 bombs, 4x shrunk and died at 20 % cus you didnt got the polymorph dispell? enjoy your 11 parse (i hate my healers btw)
thin patio
Ask your priest to always mass dispel 😄
royal lantern
eh, was the first kill and the last phase is REALLY stressfull for healers
boss is down and i honestly dont care about my parses
heavy skiff
I want to send a log here but its priv... My rl doesnt want it to be public... Is there a way to copy a logs so i can send it here?
worldly iron
private logs 
royal lantern
why does he now want them too be puplic...?
civic helm
if hes not in a top 50 guild
its probably so his players dont leave lol
or have trouble finding a new guild
heavy skiff
Its always been priv 4 us but since im a padder all de way to hell he doesnt want to do me the favor xD
civic helm
the other excuse is so people dont focus on parsing
lament dove
so here's a log:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BWr8d6gLPmZ74T3D#fight=2&type=damage-done
I mean I know I'm not any good, and do a lot of mistakes, but I did purple and golden logs in Antorus like this, and in this exp I'm shit as it appears (dps-wise), and not sure why
royal lantern
waths your azerite traits?
heavy skiff
So is there a way to copy a log?
lament dove
2DD 2TC 1NP 1SS
covert crag
Not that I know of XeoX
heavy skiff
:( k ty
sullen pagoda
Yr guild dps is really low
covert crag
When you went to the bots id vanish, emp garrote on grong > ss to bot and 2 garrote on him
so you get 2 emp garrotes out instead of just 1
maybe 2g on grong and 1 on bot actually
lament dove
I did that I think
and cant read them correctly
solar bramble
so curious about the 2 minute usage of vanish + vendetta + ensang (SS traits). What's the best way to use those outside the opener? the assassination guide only shows the opener
lament dove
but would that get me to orange from 34%?:)
I mean I don't get this exp, I made just as many mistakes in previous expansions
covert crag
No but itd make it a bit better
solar bramble
on the mid fight vanish + vendetta. do you wait to line up vendetta + vanish to get the most out of SS + ensang under venetta? My guess and idk if this is correct. Is you refresh rupture about 10 seconds before vendetta regardless of where they are. then vendetta at roughly 1/2 energy and 2 cp (so you don't overcap energy). followed by vanish > garrote > rupture > garrote > ensang > mut > envenom > mut x2 > envenom.
lost horizon
That's extremely specific
Just hold 2nd vendetta for 2nd vanish and then exsang as usual if that's the talent you're using
lone junco
@solar bramble At 2:15 ish vendetta gcb vanish ggr exsang. Then everything on cd after that.
The exsang desyncs. Unless there is a fight delay.
But gcb. And vendetta cansh ggr. Will be clockwork.
solar bramble
ya the vendetta vanish garrote is how i assumed it would be. can you use vendetta a gcd or two before vanish? since you're using ensang anyway the dots will get the full duration under the vendetta
just so you aren't trying to double gcd
ogcd*
atm i have my trinkets macro'd to my vendetta (namely galecallers)
will probably switch that to have them attached to ensang
lone junco
Vendetta needs to overlap the full exang duration.
solar bramble
yep, which is about what 13 seconds. and has a 20 second duration. so you have a gcd or two of room
spice surge
Well, its 16 seconds of rupture
solar bramble
so you can use vendetta a gcd or two early but more than that and you'll sacrifice duration of ensang rupture
potentially
lone junco
Most play 3dd tb.
solar bramble
2 gcd's gives you a little room. 4 is just pushing it too much and doesn't consider lagg or such
i don't have a ton of time to play, so the traits i'll be using unless i get the right drops will be a split setup of both m+ and raiding. . . not doing mythic raiding so it's not as detrimental
lone junco
Just keep the vendetta close to the vanish.
After exang desyyncs. You will want the vendetta vanish gg as tight as possible.
solar bramble
but vendetta doesn't snapshot the damage onto the 2nd garrote i thought? so at most you'd get one tick of boosted garrote right?
which i don't think outdoes a mutilate + envenom
solar bramble
exactly just boosts the dmg currently going
well with ensang it's 12.
well 11, since you're not using it till after the rupture
spice surge
yes?
solar bramble
my curiosity is if using vendetta a gcd or two earlier, and using it with a mutilate or envenom (maybe both) before going into the more bursty rotation (outside opener) is viable. since the extra energy generation i've noticed i can cap if i don't spend a fair bit before
lone junco
Listen up. Later in the fight you won't have exang with the vanish. You will want vendetta. Vanish gg. To cover the most of the SS.
spice surge
Most of the power of exsang comes from speeding up rupture
lone junco
And from snapping the gcb for the duration.
solar bramble
assuming it's not worth sacrificing ensang to be a 1 minute cd instead of 2 just to have them line up? since your loosing out a fair bit
spice surge
Speeding up a SS:ed garrote doesnt really matter, except it makes 4 of those 24 seconds empowered by vendetta during your cds
No its not worth
solar bramble
so if you assume the disconnected ensang. you just want vendetta + vanish to line up directly for the debuff. if that's the case you could even vanish just before vendetta (without ensang up) so your guaranteed the 100% duration under vendetta
?
solar bramble
ya, that much i've been doing. since you just waste a fair bit of vendetta otherwise
lone junco
And (as of Uldir) you delay them both to line up with the 3rd exang.
distant lava
wait you don't keep exsang for scond vendetta ?
solar bramble
you do
that's what holding for 3rd ensang means
first is on opener, 2nd 45 seconds later, 3rd on the 2nd vendetta
strange python
I have a question about pooling. This might sound like overkill but I feel it happens way to often for me.
I am at 3 CP and I have close to no Energy and around 4-5 sec left on TB. Do i:
1: Mutilate again get 5 CP the Pool, then TB and so on.
2: "prepool" Then TB to get 4 or 5 CP then Env.
I know doing TB at 5 CP is not a super big deal but since it happens all the time for me I think it will make an impact. But what is the best way to Pool? Or should I simple wait like 50% or a GCD between Mutilates and "naturally pool"?
solar bramble
pretty sure that's what he meant
royal lantern
about pooling
royal lantern
you need too remember that you not really lose dps when all dots are out unless you cap energy
solar bramble
meh i'll eventually transition. but atm i'm still in uldir gear as i'm relatively returning. and i'll have SS since i'll be doing more m+ than raiding. . . but if i get the drops then sure
distant lava
tbh i saw ss was simming high and i cba the double dose tb build
royal lantern
if you use 1 skill wait 2 sec and then use another skill or wait 2sec and use 2 skills in a row doesnt REALLY make a difference, but in your case i would wait and pool energy so you can go TB->envenom with 4 cp(or 5 if lucky crit)
strange python
But with 3xDD don't I want as many Mutilates as possible? But at the same time effectively Pool?
solar bramble
shrouded suffocation on add fights if you hold onto vanish for a short time, can allow a little more out of SS on add phases. but pure ST idk.
royal lantern
you want many mulitates during TB with DD
solar bramble
ya multiate and DD help a lot with appying poison. TB amplifies that poison.
strange python
So less DDs with pooling > More DDs without pooling
cobalt gyro
You'll basically want to spend energy to avoid capping and dump into TB
solar bramble
i haven't played the TB build in awhile. but when i did, i tried to fit 3 mutilates and 2 envenoms within the TB window (sometimes i only managed 1 envenom) depending on energy.
i pooled energy knowing TB was soon off of cd
spice surge
@strange python DD really only effective when you have envenom up
solar bramble
idk if it's the right way but it's how i played it
spice surge
It has a 25% chance to proc without envenom, and 64% with envenom
royal lantern
just remind yourself all the time when you play assassination: when all dots are out you are not losing dmg by waiting 4-5 sec, you just delay the dmg
solar bramble
tb > envenom > mut x 2 > envenom > mut. if your energy can hold it?
was how i tended to do it
even if envenom was on 3 cp. sicne it made sure my 2 dmg boost buffs were up for the muts and envenom
solar bramble
i generally wont if i can avoid it. but if it's my option when TB is coming up then i'd rather do that. it depends on where my energy is. but 4+ is definately better
cobalt gyro
Ideally TB to get to 4 or 5 CP
royal lantern
too much energy wasted for not enough dmg
strange python
So Ceph chest is good for OP, DD and for the 1sec extra Envenom buff for DD? I GCD is "safer" then I guess
royal lantern
when you use envenom at 3cp
atomic saddle
For M+, is Crit usually better or Mastery with 3x EB?
cobalt gyro
Crit
solar bramble
ya it wasn't for the damage of envenom. it was so the mutilates had high double application under toxic blade
spice surge
The extra envenom duration isnt relevant at all
solar bramble
ya crit
spice surge
Its like 1-2% higher uptime overall, very negligable
strange python
So it is only the DD OP and the small boost to Envenom?
solar bramble
it didn't occur often as the chances of a mutilate not giving me 3 wasn't very high
royal lantern
ceph is good cus it has good traits and is avaible from the vendor
the mekka chest is....weell...kill mekka on mythic for 415 and pray
spice surge
Its not a small boost, but yeah
cobalt gyro
TTK works sooo well with DD
strange python
Hmm I see! Thank you. Will have to try this out
solar bramble
i'd generally refresh garrote > mut > hold energy > tb > envenom > mut x 2 > envenom. but sometimes things dont aline and you don't get the crit. if that happened i was ok with a 3 cp envenom just to not delay TB and desynch anything
strange python
I have 2x. And when that +BBI goes of at the same time. Yummy
solar bramble
speaking of m+. how does shrouded match up with EB. i'd assume EB and the bonus agility from rupture would potentially be better in AoE with 10+ keys. but SS might be better on tyrannical so you aren't saccing to much ST dmg?
cobalt gyro
SS is top tier in n+
Scent of blood is very hard to get big value out of because you need lots of big pulls
solar bramble
ya that's why i was considering it for 10+ and not under. for the reeaping affix
solar bramble
nothign lives long enough?
cobalt gyro
Yeah you don't really get to benefit from it
solar bramble
do you go 2 eb, 2 shrouded, 1 NP, + 1?
spice surge
Scent is good at like 4-6 targets, anything over that you dont really spread more ruptures
cobalt gyro
You want burst aoe for reaping
solar bramble
EB just seems really good for the reaping part
spice surge
And its bad at ST, so not really recommended
cobalt gyro
Which scent is not
spice surge
Optimizing around reaping is fairly silly
Since its not the difficult part of the dungeon, at all
But you take EB for aoe damage in general
cobalt gyro
A big issue with scent is that you give up other traits for it
solar bramble
ya tyrannical i'd be mostly SS, and i'll never drop at least 1 NP. but EB just seems really useful there
cobalt gyro
i run 2ss / 3 EB
solar bramble
ya i'm looking for mostly haste + crit gear since it's used for both m+ and raiding. if others drop and let me optimize crit or haste differently in places sure. but having relatively equal crit/haste is probably the way i'll go
optimal for every situa;tion? no not at all. but relatively decent for either
dark crag
Mix of crit/haste gear and crit heavy haste/mastery rings for raid/m+
lone junco
@solar bramble Crit is for the cp gen in FOK cleave. And for EB. But haste is a dead stat in cleave.
That's why for tyrannical you might try a haste trinket. But dice are great.
Tldr Crit mastery.
latent gazelle
Anyone know if they nerfed dice uptime?
My guild is working in roic stormwall. N I went back n look at the logs and it only showed a 17% uptime.
Over a 6? Minute fight. Not sure of the fight length but the boss was 30% or sub 30
cobalt gyro
It's a 1 rppm proc
latent gazelle
Okay. I just wasn’t sure if I just had bad luck with procs or if that was decent uptime. Not really great at tracking that sort of thing
hushed maple
Double Dose feels weird....
I did a 4min 30second fight at the good ol' dummy
DD did only 10% of my dmg.....
lone junco
There are 2 arts in the log.
hushed maple
Well as I played 3x SS on ST I did most of my dmg with garrote. About 30% of my overall dmg. which is 20% more, than it is now
lone junco
Np does a lot as well.
hushed maple
so for me SS does 10% mredmg
lone junco
Then play 1ss 3dd 2np.
Dd tb is about timing. It's always ready.
Vanish gg. Is 2 min intervals.
strange python
So does SS lol
lone junco
Sim the diff. Or don't.
lost horizon
SS adds damage to garrote, DD is its own dmg
You can't just look at garrote dmg to DD dmg
hushed maple
well dummy should actually benefit more from DD? You dont have to leave the dummy so you dont lose gcd for Mutilate
which would procc DD
cobalt gyro
You're almost guaranteed to have more benefit from DD on a fight than SS
Especially because SS only does anything with vanish
lone junco
And you can run both.
I have 1ss 3tb. Run subterfuge tb.
It's a small loss from MA. But I like the opener/vanish better.
Exang is shit.
(As the number 1 legion bleed fan even)
lone junco
It was bota.
And alignment.
But it is just a small energy feed now. And rupture is so low on the profile.
lost horizon
Exsang was good in uldir
hushed maple
thats why I dont play exhang
lost horizon
Just not the play anymore
hushed maple
I kinda like exhang
worldly iron
where does the "h" come from
distant lava
exsanguinate
lone junco
strange python
How do you guys deal with TB cd when swapping target. On several bosses, just ONE example on Conclave. I cannot use my 2nd TB due to changing to Raptors. Do I then TB a raptor just to get a use for it or do I save it for when I eventually get to The boss again? Purely to optimize parsing 🤔
lone junco
If the mob lasts for the duration of tb. Hammer away.
hollow stone
Dont use it if you wont get the tb window. Just like vend but shorter
lone junco
Honestly. If you tb mut mut env. And it died. That's probably fine imo. And better than delaying for 10 sec until you swap back.
There aren't any hard rules for that.
Vanish g tab gg is diff.
I delay my vanish for the robot to be up on grong and def sprint out. Vanish g tab back to boss. gg
It's not a huge delay or anything. Just plan for that part.
strange python
Hmm I guess ye. It just feels so bad swapping in the middle of CDs and/or TB window. I feel and I have seen I lose a lot of dps on that.
distant helm
anyones else having troubles with tricks saying "invalid target"?
strange python
I don't do that. But ye. I get it. I'll have to try it out. I am just so underperforming my Sims. Still parse good but based on the gear I have I should be doing way better....
lone junco
To keep annoying rogues from tricking people to try and kill them in raid prob.
strange python
Ty for answers!
lone junco
Tb is short. I tend to use it. And then stay till it's done.
But mechanics make you move.
That's also why tb is nice. It's always ready for a good time.
Can hit a raptor or robot. Exang is wasted on small shit.
strange python
That is very true.
brisk frost
Outlaw or sin for blockade? which is overall better? all the top logs are made with outlaw, but ik its littlebit about dice rng factory
vague oyster
Just play what you want to play, outlaw or sin doesn't matter that much
royal lantern
outlaw has better logs on blockade cus you can flurry the sirens/elementals all the time(boss hitbox is gigantic)
spice surge
For every boss this tier you can play both outlaw and assa and do well
The only exception is mekka where i think assa is better
Otherwise just play what you prefer
dark crag
Assa is the safe choice, outlaw is hit or miss
spice surge
Not really if you're good at outlaw
bleak spoke
Outlaw is giga consistent
dark crag
You can be god, but even god can't overcome the 19 crossbones in a row
dark crag
17k dps is high?
bleak spoke
No but it’s workable
spice surge
Its not like assa is consistent either anyway 😄