Barrely joking btw
#assassination
spice surge
warm harbor
yeah that was mentioned before
lots of live keys that are high have been OL/OL or sin/OL
rigid mango
Yeah
Jb was running with double rogue a bunch
The outlaw is in their mdi team, dunno about the other dude don't think he's playing
Afaik they're running protwarr rdruid otlrogue dh unholy
warm harbor
yeah lighteeeeeeeeee (FNA darkee)
rigid mango
His dk's called darkee still tho
inner pecan
they're not running any comp in particular lol
they will play whatever they feel is strongest on TR
MDI is all about multi-classing, atleast as a DPS
primal gazelle
Havoc/udk and sin rog with 3 ttk to pump priority damage into boss
Outlaw kinda unnecessary with udk around
Pull reaping into every boss yolo style
spice surge
@gusty kestrel Shhh i havent even leaked the new sub build
signal bear
what azerite traits do we want this week ?
hollow stone
Same traits we do every night, pinky
chilly yew
if you play tripple echoing for some aoe memeings and you happen to fight a 2 target boss
do you just fan instead of mut assuming you are not capping energy?
simcraft apl does that but im not sure if really better?
cobalt gyro
ya echoing does a shitload of dmg
small plinth
Hi, i was just wondering if there was testing done with the ZT new racial for assin? if this was already answered, I apologize.
devout glen
is hidden blades the move if u have 3x eb
rustic ether
3EB, high vers, and youre in a dungeon like FH or Ml
lethal mauve
FoK generate combo points whithout target for MA is good?open whith evi?
open parcel
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
visual quartz
That was hotfixed Roofie, they wouldnt let that go for long
lethal mauve
Thanks
marble elm
never lucky
echo anchor
In m+ do I want 1 EB or should I just go for TC (only 1 EB available on my Azerite gear)
frail quiver
You want as many as possible. If u only have one, go for the one
desert jungle
Without ed do I only use fok to spreed poison? I also have 3 dd
small aurora
Fairly sure DD changes your FoK targets to 5 unless spreading poison
strange python
I would never go DD for m+. Not even TD where bosses are the only important thing
grizzled jay
DD in M+ is shite don't use it
real bay
.
desert jungle
It’s for the adds before Rastakhan
robust cloak
hey guys, am i better off taking 400 shoulders with EB or a 415 piece with SoB for m+? my other traits are SS x 2, TC and EB x 1
cloud iris
robust cloak
ttk on the 400, DD on the 415
robust cloak
aight i'll go with the 400 - thanks guys 😄
verbal mantle
best compromise I think
vestal wren
anyone simmed ma/ss diffrence with the apl changes that are now in?
regal tundra
I can look at it with my character
Mystler had some improvements with Garrote and Subterfuge ( #tc-updates for details)
nimble tartan
quick question is it possible to do custom fight length on simc or is it always just in those minute intervals
verbal mantle
./summon @vestal wren
strange python
Noooo please don't tell me I need to get a SS now after almost to having perfect setup... omg. RIP Azerite is the devil
strange python
Should we use 3xSS subs now? Is that the best? Rip DD build I have filled for
vestal wren
its on 2 targets
i dont know if azerite power shifts thats why i asked if somone simmed already
strange python
Nightly sim then? I'll have to do that once I get back home.
thorn tartan
vestal wren
500 seems brutal O.o
verbal mantle
thats pretty huge
regal tundra
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hx1vnCG9ekX16cUukKBnY4
With my char, Sub no SS is -0.7% and Sub with 1 or 2 SS is -1.8% (roughly 400 less dps)
golden relic
why even look at patchwerk though
if you are gna sim SS
i mean if you are debating to use it over DD in some scenarios
regal tundra
Because of the APL changes fuu wanted to see the differences between MA/Sub
vestal wren
so it wont change anything in the end, good to know
shell zealot
Get rid off poison master imo
brisk forge
Yup, but MP dosent sim that much lower for me tho. Sim 26.5k and like 25.9 with MP
silver talon
What should my ST be ilvl 399
elder hornet
vestal wren
i think it comes down to your azerite, so its hard to give a itemlvl number
silver talon
400 cown of righteous, mara boneblade and spymasters wrap
vestal wren
its probably easier to just post the sim
but yes, if thats the best gear/trait combination for you its normal
winter gale
Is it more optimal to play with subterfuge and 1 SS andor to play MA with 3xDD?
winter gale
Im simming much better with MA and 3xDD, like 2.9%
I meant for ST
But didnt saw that many ppl playing MA
So came here for help 😂
verbal mantle
Some ppl are more used to play with Subterfuge I guess
for comfort
But MA isnt bad for raid
winter gale
Tbh since I got few drops last few days im loaded with questions 😂
Played with MA legendary in Legion but since bfa came out I played with atleast one SS for the opener and add dotting. But simming myself gave me 2.9% dps increase when I play MA and 3xDD / 1xNP / 1xTC / 1xTTK.
I think 2.9% is alot and I need to stick to that
winter gale
Y, I just need to refresh it
verbal mantle
I learned both too
winter gale
Its also great when u open with those huge envenoms. Im critting like 85-90k
verbal mantle
Yeh it has an insane burst
winter gale
Will rerun hc and normal
winter gale
I played it in Legion with those leggos
Ill get it within no time
@verbal mantle thank you for ur time
verbal mantle
Np mate
strange python
I got the same traits @winter gale Gotta try out MA this weekend
winter gale
Someone told me its bis setup
3xdd 1xTc and 1xNP
Dunno is ttk good with those
Same as mine
80-90k
Do u play with ma?
35.7%
But very low on Haste
405ilvl
winter gale
I have only one crit haste item equipped. Rest is sockets only
verbal mantle
verbal mantle
now hes silent haha
verbal mantle
dont answer that 😅
golden relic
Philips monitor MonkaYikes
verbal mantle
I think we should talk about the Sin spec here 😄
winter gale
😂
winter gale
Touch screen
solid nova
!warn @winter gale Keep the spec channels on topic, you can share pictures of your pc setups in off topic.
winter gale
Sorry, got ambushed by other rogues
safe flame
I need some help here... My ilvl is 411, yet I'm simming much lower than other rogues I see in here...what's the issue? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nMUDB6zRFHvX1UBTt9Jvza
That's with the Azerite powers changed though
Are the pieces not good?
Even if I do one it seems to sim low...it's very weird
safe flame
Yeah, these traits are killing me... I can buy a new chest next week. Hoping that makes a difference. I thought SS was the strongest right now, is MA better if you can run DD + NP?
winter gale
Should i change something?
topaz crow
MA is better if you dont have a single SS which for ST you really shouldnt. If you have to run SS then u run subterfuge
Ohandza it looks pretty good, theres a few things i would change based upon preference but overall looks fine.
winter gale
@topaz crow any tip is more than welcome. I feel like I miss a bit haste
strange python
I have 21% haste and Haste still Sims highest stat 🤔 🤔 seriously at some point the loss in crit and the lower damage due to mastery must hurt my Haste? No?? 🤔 🤔 outside of simming ofc
royal lantern
haste does a shitton of stuff for us
i dont see a reason why it should start too sim low at some point except when there is a soft/hard cap
i mean, you attack faster(melee attacks are a pretty big part of melee dps dmg in bfa), gain energy a bit faster back, your dots tick more often(wich is a huge dps boost) and because your bleeds tick more often you get more energy too use more skills
haste right now does so much stuff for assassination
topaz crow
@winter gale whats your haste %?
verbal mantle
He has 14% iirc
winter gale
14.5%
I think 17% is nice
Only one item crit haste
Rest is sockets and uldir ring 😂
topaz crow
I mean 14% is a bit low but ur galecallers (long as ur able to stand in it) is kinda carrying you through that I'd pry try and drop a bit of crit to gain some haste or vers if your able. Personally i just dont like TC for prog content and galecallers can be rng based upon mechanics which i dont prefer in my builds rather have a plumage or something just activated and on me.
winter gale
I agree. I cant get any good drop. Im wearing what simms told me its best and, tbh, I dont have anything better in my bags. Ill just wait for a better drops and carry on. Thank you for ur help guys
verbal mantle
Hf with your new ST build
topaz crow
Yep thats about all you can do looks like ur doing the best you can with what you got so ur good
winter gale
Im not such a good crafter so I ask alot, hahhaa
shy axle
chill with that "Ahhh 1x SS is so trash", it ain`t. DD/NP/TC sim better, but it is like 100 dps
SO TRASH
verbal mantle
take a chill pill
worldly iron
people do say "ss is trash for st" which is an exaggeration
it works
not optimal, of course, but it's not that bad
golden relic
xd SS
the funny part is the triggered people that want to use SS no matter what but wont accept that something is better 😄
vast forum
Ss is the most versatile trait tho
It provides more burst than dd, works with multiple targets and only falls behing in sustained single target
Dd only really takes over because there is no significant cleave on any of the relevant bosses in bod
spice surge
But it provides less burst than NP, less aoe than EB
So its really a jack of all trades, master of none
pastel vault
Well its master of 3 target :p
golden relic
i swear if garrote gave 2 CPs by default , ppl wouldnt use SS
spice surge
depends on fight length
vast forum
Aye
golden relic
thats it
spice surge
EB is still better if the fight isnt like 30s
vast forum
Ss isn't about cp
idle ember
If you had the ability to run outlaw within 1k dps of your ss spec. Would you switch to MA if you have the traits to support it?
So far ive only ran outlaw on opu but I'm considering playing with it on jadefire and champs. I have almost no EB traits.
vast forum
Ss is about the insane amount of garrote dmg on multiple targets
golden relic
also ye obvsly about the raid and how boss encounters are but , in general any boss in BOD atm you run SS on, u can run DD on and still do same dps if not better progress wise, pad wise , different story probably
vast forum
Ss has 0 rng
golden relic
I just said its a lulw situation when ppl refuse to acknowledge smth else is potentially better, alot of ppl keep SS for the feel of it by the talk of this discord
worldly iron
oi I'm aiming to get enough azerite pieces to be able to play MA
I just don't see the point in bashing SS so hard
it's decent
vast forum
3xSS simmed higher for me than 3xDD until i got cephalohide
winter gale
I prefer it
spice surge
I mean, yeah its decent. But people are praising it really highly
worldly iron
I prefer the gameplay of SS, but I want to play MA for certain fights
golden relic
im not bashing SS lmao, read
spice surge
And i dont see people praising stuff like filthy transfusion or twist, even though those are better
golden relic
I use SS on some bosses
worldly iron
not saying that you are, but some people are
winter gale
But got 3rd DD and I simm better. Gameplaywise im sad its like that 😂
golden relic
litterally change 1 thing thats what i dont get
u use vanish with MA and not for garroting stuff
big oof
spice surge
Yes @gusty kestrel
golden relic
I mean what do u wanna talk about, overwhelming power or just dont speak about them, its not like any other trait is remotely interesting enough
blood siphon buff pls
strange python
People don't realize how OP OP is 😂
I "only" have 2 and I love it
Cannot wait for my 3rd
Ah ye. Like Ceph. People say "It has DD and TTK"... and then stop. It also has OP. The forgotten azeritering
spark oyster
Im stuck with the NP + catalyst chest because it has OP lul
hollow stone
Same @spark oyster. Its pretty good tho. Catalyst is quite forgiving and pops often
And that gives me 2np so my opener is big boiz
:p
spark oyster
I only have 1 NP 😧 I still have the engi goggles after 6 M champions kills
meager basalt
I just got a 425 My'das Talisman but equipped already i have 415 Dice & 400 boon, switch boon for my'das for the agility?
94 agility upgrade
candid thorn
Running LFR on my twink, dude rolls on the caster dagger from first boss and immediately equips it. Does 4k ST dps and flames me for pointing it out to him
😦
strange python
SIM yourself. But I very very highly doudt that the 94 agility and the proc will be better than a Boon
golden relic
@gusty kestrel Ye i can agree on that , or more that people dont trust sims when they sim themselves over a trait chart
winter gale
Wich talents to use on m+?
Im playing with 3xSS, 2xSoB, 1xEB. Playing Exsang and Poison Bomb. Should I go maybe for that FoK talent or CT?
meager basalt
If assass u will not do nearly as much dmg, espec. w/ reaping, without ATLEAST 1 Echoing Blade trait
everything else just check affixes and adjust stats accordingly, gg
verbal mantle
EB stacking is good, I mostly do M+ so I have 2 SS + 3 EB + 1TTK (and 3 Heed My Call)
meager basalt
^
verbal mantle
and your Crit should be very high
winter gale
Do u play exsanguinate and hidden blades? Or poison bomb?
meager basalt
ty @verbal mantle
meager basalt
@verbal mantle when u sim urself does it say u would gain the most from a mastery increase
grats on socketed 420 main hand btwe
btw*
verbal mantle
Mastery comes in second
Crit is still first
thx haha, got it after 3 Cloaks in 3 weeks
lul
in weekly chest
meager basalt
thts nutty dude
meager basalt
also, how do u do on tyran weeks, like this week
verbal mantle
pretty good, completed my first +15 last night
but I think I will try out Exsangu for Tyr week
meager basalt
i find the higher keys i do on assass the more dmg we do because of the dots maybe idk
meager basalt
GG
yeah
EB is literal god
when im on my BDK and inv a rogue to keys i check to make sure he has atlease 1
atleast*
xD
anyways ima get back to no life'n wow, take care
molten ether
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4sM9auTLWg7VyoTA45D498 why am I simming 150less dps than yesterday did they change something?
molten ether
ty
north star
guys in opulence with the ruby gem does FoK apply the debuff to the boss aswell or is it just direct attacks?
on the same vein, do dots apply the debuff?
jovial aurora
What embrace of the loa passive is the best for assassination?
jovial aurora
Thanks
hollow stone
@north star fok applies it. Not 100% sure if you need to be targeting him for fok to apply it but if youre ruby you should be sitting boss full time in that phase anyway to ensure ruby stacks dont fall. Ruby stacks fall, you wipe
Ruby debuff is applied when offensive actions are pushed
Auto attacks dont proc it. Just buttons pushed
So the dot part of rupt (the tick) wouldnt apply, but casting rupt does. For example
north star
alright so it should be fine if i sit on boss but spam FoK during add phase right?
hollow stone
Yea
And dont forget to toss knife when you have to run with gold. Keep dem stacks
Dps loss for you but dps gain for raid
north star
alright thanks 😃
ripe nimbus
hollow stone
Nice. There ya go
north star
cool
waxen carbon
im a new rogue i have question toxic blade or exsanguinate ?
sturdy python
TB usually, exsang has its uses
Id read the wowhead guide for assassination if I were you
hollow stone
Id highly recommend tb for new rogues and to just use it on cd. Its not optimal but while learning its effective. Once you get better w the basics, sim yourself to see what's better. Assuming tb is still better, thats when youll want to look into optimizing tb usage @waxen carbon. This is a recommendation and i made some assumptions so tweak this response for your comfort level
strange python
like 99% of the time you use it on cd though, you optimize around it usually with your other spells
hollow stone
Dont worry about optimizing when learning. Basics first
strange python
Agreed
hollow stone
Pooling will come into play, synch windows (vend, trinkets, ep, blah blah)
unkempt shoal
Which traits should i try to get for M+ ?
proud spruce
north star
is there any way to not make kui nameplates overlap? I hate elvui nameplates and i'm liking KUI plates but i can't keep track of stuff when mobs are together cause all nameplates in the same place
or any other plate addon that doens't look like trash and doens't overlap?
plain thistle
you just enable stacking nameplates, every name plate have that option
north star
yes but nameplates stack on health bar and not debuff bar, meaning that things are on top of each other
unless theres some option im not seeing
oh i got it
need to update a cvar
ty anyway
rough thunder
Hello ! I was wondring, why my simc says that having a weap vers + crit and hast + mastery is better than having the two Howl's from TD ?
sweet ice
hey guys! got a question about azerite traits for raiding, got the headpiece and shoulders from the first and third boss, would i go with 2 np or 2dd on those. as the other trait is going to be TC
visual quartz
Sims know best
hard estuary
lustrous plumage + galecaller is good?
simple ocean
No
true fulcrum
Is it worth it to rupture adds on opulence? Maybe just 2-3 for energy?
hollow stone
@rough thunder probably because the one with "off stats" is a higher ilvl. For mh weap especially, ilvl is the most important thing, stats are a bonus
rough thunder
those are all same ilvl and same enchants
hollow stone
Seems odd then but maybe youre severely lacking crit vers making them more valuable. Trust the sim. But it does sound oss
Odd
Link your sim
rough thunder
well I don't have much vers and mastery
hollow stone
Thats probably why. If you link sim we can confirm for you
opaque crystal
which loa buff works better pa'ku or kimbul?
hollow stone
Need the actual link, to see everything. And you didnt mention you were simming for m+. That changes the math. But that's it, with your weights, it is slightly better from what i can see
rough thunder
yea i'm doing m+
rough thunder
echoing blade isn't that good in raid
scarlet sequoia
@rough thunder thats not single target is it
pastel crow
thank u
😃
I just sim like 21k at my pally exact same ilvl
so wondered where i was doing wrong
rough thunder
his sim is single target
scarlet sequoia
i meant yours
scarlet sequoia
yeah dungeon slice
rough thunder
dungeon slice
scarlet sequoia
🤣
rough thunder
i'm dumb
scarlet sequoia
29.4k st with 403 would be very nice
rough thunder
i bet lol, especially with 2 EB and 3 SS
scarlet sequoia
mhm
spice surge
@pastel crow You are using 1 EB (which is useless on ST), and scent which is also very bad for ST.
Also your missing enchants, youre missing a third ring trait, youre using exsang and subterfuge instead of ma/tb and you also have very bad trinkets
Soooo, theres a lot of reasons why youre not simming very highly
honest vessel
what makes ttk so good in keys?
strange python
do you wanna cast rupture with 5 cps allways or is 4 fine ?
honest vessel
4 is fine
strange python
aight
how do you deal with rastakhan trash.
garrote them up and rupture all of em ? and normal rotation ?
or just garrote them and go main target ?
fok spamming i mean
honest vessel
with shrouded you garrote them, rupture as many as you need for energy gain, toxic one and main target it
alternatively, just shroud 3 then do toxic blade
and then rupture for energy
after the tb falls off
copper kestrel
Are there any good M+ comps for ass+ret? I feel like we really need a MW or DH for the AoE stun. (I'm the Ass, might make my ret buddy tank or heal)
honest vessel
for top top stuff probably not, dh rogue and ranged is basically the comp
but tanks can have aoe stuns and stuff
so if ur not pushing crazy stuff do what you want
lone junco
@honest vessel ttk is a way to pump ST prio dmg on baddies when you are in full fok cleave. works well with TB. and since we stack crit, it is nice for bosses.
dull osprey
is the bleed racial better than crit for sin?
lone junco
Prio dmg Vendetta Tb. fok env fok env fok env can pump out 100k envs.
dull osprey
or is it based on how much crit I need?
copper kestrel
Probably have a warrior tank and holy priest. So ass+ret+ele might be okay?
Keys wont be too insane, but looking for 15+
lone junco
The assumption is that you have 3eb so you dont need help with aoe.
so you pump st as well.
honest vessel
i was looking at stuff and it seemed the the third eb was really only teeming and fort weeks
but that's a separate, super top end issue anyway
thx for ur help
torpid crown
any tips regarding rotation for ass rogue as far as big aoe pulls go? (like at least 7+, for example reaping)
honest vessel
fok-finisher, in tb stick to that target, rupture a few things outside of tb
if you have shrouded open with garrotes
if not, dont garrote
simple ocean
#tc-updates mentions something about that
woeful wraith
ah nice thx
copper kestrel
On Waycrest sisters. Should I multidot/FoK?
harsh sphinx
@hollow wraith briefly looked through it since your playing MA here is your opener
real bay
with EB im quite sure you just dot them up and fok for cp's
harsh sphinx
strive for something like this you wanna use Vanish for big envenom instead of garrote since your not running subterfuge
dapper forge
strange python
I am too noobs to find what changed. People are sying look in tc-research but I don't know what I am looking for. What changed? Anyone care to explain? 😒 I also sim lower today so
strange python
Ye but people, myslef in.c lost aounrd 150 sim dps without changing gear
round harbor
@hollow wraith below 90% on garrotes ruptures on boss
'your mid fight vanish is wrong aswell
not sure if you know how MA works but maybe have a look
oops its said above its muscle memory,
and you held your vendetaas
your third one you only got 12 seconds of use out of
rustic ether
is herodamage still legit? im seeing 3NP 3SS being the best traits
round harbor
and casting feint at seemingly random points
i personally wouldnt ever feint during vendetta unless i was absolutely sure i was going to die from the dmg
fleet whale
@strange python my sim dps is the same today as it was yesterday
round harbor
also you can cloak the tantrum damage early and late
so i cloak the first tantrum just to get it on cd and then one of the later ones where healers might be behind
fleet whale
bloodmallet
fleet whale
also, i think hero-damage is showing SS being so high because it's using both exsang and subt
rustic ether
wierd
civic palm
Not too weird.
fleet whale
those two talents pushes it's value by a ton, but that doesn't necessarily means that it will sim higher than the MA DD build
civic palm
The chart only shows expected DPS values of those traits, there are other factors when it comes to the DPS of your character.
near pilot
Sims over hero damage correct?
Cause I miss SS I still aim quite higher with DD
Sim*
civic palm
yeah that's right
strange python
so for st opener i'm doing g m r vend mut (mut) tb vanish env mut (mut) env. does that sound about right?
running MA currently
doing that, if i crit those initial muts, i can get off 4 envenoms in that tb window
honest needle
where do u get azerite helm from raid
where u get bis from
also is it worth rolling helm from 415 vendor ?
fleet whale
champion helm is really good, stormwall helm is slightly better
latent gazelle
thought Champ head was BiS
fleet whale
they both have the same outers but i think stormwall has OP
golden relic
both have OP
honest needle
is it worth rolling helm
golden relic
stormwall has resounding protection
honest needle
is it worth rolling helm from 415 vendor or should i keep going chest untill i get bis
civic palm
Bingo
honest needle
this is the gear i have right now https://gyazo.com/5dfae6e09a6fe33cbe41b992968a685c should i keep rolling chest or go for helm. right now i have outlaw traits but i wanna go for assasin traits
so should i keep rolling chest or go helm
or shoulders
honest needle
ok so i linked my gear
u guys think i should go for chest or shoulders
from 415 vendor
spice surge
Idk chest for st and chest for outlaw m+
strange python
im about to roll for a chest myself, due to having 400 cowl & 400 gorak tuls
still stuck with a 385 celaph 😢
honest needle
wait i thought outlaw ususes same gear for m+ and raid
dont i already have bis traits for outlaw
strange python
the only thing i swap out for m+ as outlaw is wits for deadshot
honest needle
is wits good for raid as well ?
strange python
on cleave sure
honest needle
the gear i linked do i alrdy have bis tazerite for outlaw
im trying to figure out what i should roll for for assasination
strange python
yeah those are good for ST, i'd double check in #outlaw
you could roll chest for dd/np if youd like
honest needle
is gorak tul shoulders bis for assaination
are the shoulders 415 i alrdy good for assasination
honest needle
ok so my only option is chest or helm then right
strange python
i wouldnt roll for helm tbh
visual quartz
residuum helms are all kinda bad
strange python
^
honest needle
are those gorak tul shoulders also good for mythic plus assasination since they also have ss
strange python
residuum is spent either on chest or shoulders if you dont have gorak tuls
visual quartz
champs helm is easier to get
visual quartz
I like gold tassled for M+
honest needle
but are the ones i have decent
strange python
as many as you can get
strange python
depends
honest needle
so from the gear i linked since my 415 shoulders can work for raid and m+ my best bet is ches t then correct https://gyazo.com/5dfae6e09a6fe33cbe41b992968a685c
strange python
thats a good chest for outlaw if you don't have 415 crown, m+ that is
honest needle
ya the chest i have is bis for outlaw ya
strange python
but for assassin, you could either roll for one, or get mekka jacket
honest needle
but i need for assasination
strange python
for m+ or raids
honest needle
i do both
strange python
theyre 2 different chests
honest needle
thats y i cant decide what to do
i mean from the gear i linked i alrdy have bis azerite for outlaw right
besides the helm opnly being 400ilvl
the chest and shoulders i have are bis for outlaw i think
strange python
like i and others have said, dont waste time with using residuum for helm
honest needle
i didint mention helm again
strange python
you just did lol
honest needle
i cant decide if i should go shoulderrs or chest
strange python
chest then
honest needle
im asking if the gear i have right now for outlaw is bis
so i can stop focusing on outlaw set
and switch to sin
strange python
yes its fine
strange python
if it had dd/np its probably good.
strange python
sim it
honest needle
this isnt the 1 i wanted tho correct this 1 looks horrible
fleet whale
it doesn't look that bad tbh
civic palm
For M+ maybe > _>
strange python
its not that bad
civic palm
But not really.
strange python
yeah for m+ lol
honest needle
whats it have good
fleet whale
for raids it's pretty good
strange python
^
honest needle
thats good for raids ?
strange python
not really
honest needle
ss/NP is good for m+ right
strange python
its not the best, but itll do
honest needle
so now that piece i got seems to look good for outttlaw but is it better mthan the venture co chest for outlaw
rustic ether
NP isnt great for m+
civic palm
Depends on what you are doing.
strange python
like i said man, you'll probably get a lot more answers by simming ur gear in whatever specs
honest needle
i do both raid n mythic plus just as much
strange python
itll tell you exactly what u have is best
civic palm
Not that the SIMs are right most of the time, but sure.
strange python
sims arent right most of the time..? um
fleet whale
i can tell it's better than your current chest for ST at least
strange python
lmfaooo ayyy
fleet whale
wth
rustic ether
shadowmeld?
civic palm
Very Shadowmeld.
fleet whale
i'm a nelf but what shot it up so high, does meld really push it up that high
strange python
what is it, meld > stealth?
visual quartz
and ally complain about horde racials😂
civic palm
The problem is that is just DPS in M+.
It's just as good as everyone else everywhere else.
rustic ether
tbf thats more over for pvp
fleet whale
so is SS actually meta again, or only if you are a nelf
civic palm
Neither, SIMs don't do the TtK | EB meta well IIRC.
or even TtK | EB | SS
I doubt you would Meld during trash where it's most powerful to reapply Garrotes.
strange python
hmm so i just need a helm now; current eb/ss on shoulders/chest and ss/ttk on helmie
ttk is fine for m+
especially in tyrannical ids
oh, good to know.
lost sentinel
I thought TTK was weak single target
strange python
as an option between that and SoB, for me TtK sims higher
rough thunder
Hello, what should i take for a ring enchant https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2xsYfEockZmXuKz65wbevg
I never understood the stats weight :c
plz
rough thunder
alright !
strange python
TTK is not weak at all even single target
it gets heavily outperformed by traits like double dose and NP though
however these are useless in mythic+ except in very niche cases
inner pecan
1 SS, 2-3 TTK, 2-3 EB
is the meta build
3 TTK for more prio/ST dmg, 3 EB for more AoE - depending on what your group needs
strange python
so it's no longer worth it to stack SS @inner pecan ?
inner pecan
You can still play the 3SS build, it has it's own strengths
Mostly 2 and 3 target insane burst
But most high-end rogues have been going to Assassination for it's priority damage, playing it almost like how people used to use sub rogues in the past
strange python
oh that makes sense
civic palm
Yeah it's old SUB rogue without yelling at everyone else for attacking.
strange python
is there a standard stat prio to follow? or should i just gear compare @ dungeon slice
strange python
awesome, as stated before, with current gear, i'll be running 3SS/2EB/1TtK
that will change as more gear is accumilated
inner pecan
you probably want to look into playing Exsg with that build then
And maybe CT if you want even more AoE
The usual 3TTK build uses TB/PB
but with triple SS it's different
rigid mango
for what, m+?
strange python
yeah
inner pecan
naw
inner pecan
Run your 3SS setup
strange python
ight
strange python
i've only got 2x eb atm
strange python
ight yeah i'll play around with that setup then
rigid mango
Since most packs you still want to FoK for cp
Regardless of Eb or not
3 SS 2 EB 1 TTK is near optimal for shit like temple/kr
strange python
so iirc, CT is taken always except KR and another one ye?
rigid mango
no?
inner pecan
Most TTK builds are running Poison Bomb exclusively
rigid mango
I never take CT, I'd only ever take it on teeming week MAYBE
strange python
good to know
i appreciate the info, i'm making the swap from outlul to sin in m+ heh
opaque tree
TTK?
inner pecan
A lot of top rogues are playing sin now
strange python
it was mainly due to ilvl upgrades on sin gear
opaque tree
oh, didnt know ttk was near the top now?
strange python
and the fact that i got 2x 400+ daggers and were stuck w/ 385 weps as outlaw
opaque tree
got it
rigid mango
It's really good if that's what you need for your comp
I still pref EB, but TTK builds are pretty good
strange python
so with my gear atm, sitting at 25% crit/35% mastery
gonna give it a sim and see how im looking
inner pecan
yeah and the things that 3EB shines at, Outlaw does better
rigid mango
spamming fok is more valuable in a lot of cases than envenoming
inner pecan
Not reason to play full AoE pad sin imo
rigid mango
making TTk worse
inner pecan
If you're doing spam FoK spam just respec to Outlaw lmao
rigid mango
I mean I don't really see the issue
It's outlaw's strength yeah, but it doesn't disqualify 3EB sin as a worse spec all around
dark crag
It does
civic palm
Also FoK>ENV isn't about the AoE even though it's a lot of it.
dark crag
Eb means you sit with -3 traits at a boss
inner pecan
You will never be bottlenecked by AoE in m+
strange python
ight so with simming; should i be simming 6 targets 40 secs? or dungeon slice is well enough
dark crag
What matters is your dungeon comp, affixes, type of dungeon
inner pecan
The problem with simming is it will tell you what will do the most overall dmg
And that's not always what you want
dark crag
Outlaw is universal, assa can build for different things but shifts its strengths around
strange python
that makes a lot of sense actually
inner pecan
I'd just run with your 3SS/2EB/TTK combo, focus on Crit/Mastery/Vers but don't sacrifice huge huge ilvl for it
And you'll do well
Play Exsg if it sims higher on ST for you with that setup, you can play around with CT if you feel like it but PB is fine too
strange python
will do, appreciate all the help guys
and women
if applicable
looks like TB sims a tad higher than Exsang atm
inner pecan
Just play TB, that also makes PB a tad stronger
strange python
yup
inner pecan
So I'd just default to TB/PB
dark crag
In m+?
strange python
yes
dark crag
Did you sim dungeonslice?
inner pecan
CT is obviously going to sim overall more dps
But it takes away from what you want to be doing as a sin rogue in m+
hazy geyser
so long story short the 8.1.5 patch fucked my wow up and i lost all my addon settings is there a place where i could get weakauras UI templates etc... because it will take A LONG TIME to get all my stuff back
inner pecan
You can scroll through wago.io and see if you like anything
Lots of weakaura packages for every class
hazy geyser
any recommendations?
dark crag
Save your wtf and interface folder from time to time
hazy geyser
yeah i learned that the hard way
civic palm
or in my case, upload everything to wago :3
and upload your WTF/cache to your google drive every time the game closes O _O"
sonic rapids
hey guys, my guild loves to bl bosses at 3minute mark, do vendetta on cd or do I delay into bl?
hazy geyser
Wtf what boss r u on
sonic rapids
grong and council that is mainly
hazy geyser
Thats a weird bloodlust time
ruby oxide
3m for lust on grong is mentioned in a lot of guides and lines up with 3m/1.5m cds. But definitely feels bad for a lot of classes. On pull feels a little better, even if you have to break for adds 10-15s in
Guilds should use guides as a baseline to formulate strategy, but then identify their own strengths and weaknesses. Example: Hard time killing second wave of adds fast enough on grong to ensure a 50 energy Tantrum 3? lust there.
nimble tartan
@sonic rapids depends on the average kill time of bosses you're doing
you can delay your vendetta if you won't miss out on a cast regardless and it would be better to line it up with bloodlust
proven wasp
someone just told me to take emerald on opulence to parse better? is that legit?
civic palm
for Normal maybe?
fleet whale
emerald is booty
proven wasp
they said it for heroic lol so i dont know
dark crag
If you get more than 1 or 2 add waves take opal, else emerald
If you want to parse you need to do the oneside strat or be specced into maximum pad
fleet whale
or you can just volunteer for ruby duty since assassin is pretty good to hold the ruby
if you don't care for parsing
civic palm
Eh you can do pretty well with Ruby
fleet whale
well yeah, you can still parse well, just don't expect to get 99 with ruby
fleet whale
random but i kind of miss having a green name 😦
lost horizon
opulence isn't even valid for all star points isn't it?
sturdy python
Nope
chrome coyote
are sims working correctly for shrouded suffocation?
sturdy python
Should be
sacred vine
Guys, any can teach mee with my low dps https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/66i7Vhv2jYhcez2PLeaCa5
elfin valley
@sacred vine can u sim then link ur char using topgear
sacred vine
Ok w8
tame granite
is there any downside to just waiting for like 150 energy outside of vendetta?
as long as keeping up dots
strange python
Quick question, is Hidden Blades ever worth taking if you have 2+ Echoing blades. Didnt see anything in pins
for M+ specifically
spiral beacon
is there a reason to stack double dose vs stacking nothing personal
sacred vine
strange python
yeah im absolutely loving sin in m+
sims telling me dice/razorleaf, yet i have a 410 kimbuls/yulons in bag, but idk how those are in m+ scenarios
topaz crow
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eG4YyYzq6FTvV8k4z8mxrV
gettin close to that 25k mark
honest needle
is vest of rev adortion good for assasination at all
it has twk and NP
or ss and np
i cant decide if i wanna do that or use it for outlaw
real bay
I guess it's decent but no overwhelming power
honest needle
so should i use twk and np or ss and np
real bay
for m+ SS and ttk
crisp shard
Would probably use Reverent Adoration for outlaw gear as its one of the best outlaw chests and pretty bad/middlepack for assa raid
golden relic
RIP our sweet free CP from FoK 
royal lantern
didnt do shit anyway
burnt dome
Hm, what did i miss regarding fok?
round harbor
It have free cp from stealth, it don't be that way anymore.
spare shore
In AoE with SS is it better to Garrote 3-4 targets or should you weave Garrote and Rupture?
cobalt gyro
Opening, garrote 3x
spare shore
Thanks
grizzled jay
Man I'm trying to like outlaw but every time I reroll a little part of me dies. I like Sin too much
royal lantern
well, rolls are less punishing that they where in legion for sure
but still sucks too get the wrong stuff 6x in a row
strange python
Anyone els other than me experience an issue in M+ that I cannot get healed from time to time?
merry zinc
hey guys, got a question for the m+ people. i'm trying to do some "higher" keys and i'm wondering where i should start to look for an upgrade in my gear. i'm running 3x ss/ 2x eb / 1x tc or 2x ss / 1x eb /1x tc /1x ttk / 1x catalyst on some tyranical duns. i think i should aim for more ttk and less ss?
my azerite chest is only 405, too, and i wont kill conclave mythic anytime soon
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kyyNZZW8MRWW2Usf1NcKGD is my dungeonslice atm
warm drift
not realy. but sometimes i cant shadowstep the entire m+ run @strange python
on party members
strange python
There are many bosses I cannot shadowstep on. Like 1st boss SoB. But ye me and another friend of mine (also rogue) get dodge on heals
Or parry
warm drift
weird
strange python
It sucks. I have reported it but wanted to know if more rogues have noticed it
Started happening after 8.1.5
spice surge
Going out and in again fixed it when it happened to me
strange python
The healing thing?
strange python
Hmm. That Sucks I hope they fix it soon!
cosmic pier
Yeah I get the shadowstep thing, especially when shrouding. Not being able to step to mounted party members sucks hard, first time it happened fucked us hard
distant halo
I’m getting the “invalid target” glitch when trying to shadow step to people on mounts in keys
distant halo
Fuckin oath
cosmic pier
some Druid forms as well
distant halo
^
@merry zinc I run 3 SS, 1 TC, 1 blightborn and 1 EB. Your current setup of 3 ss, 1 tc and 2 eb is very good for overall speed. You could swap out one Eb for something like a NP (depending on haste values) or a ttk for higher boss damage. Higher keys depends on your groups composition and what they need you to specifically do. But your current build is great for all around purposes
merry zinc
allright thank you very much! then i just keep rolling for a better chest with my residuum i guess
i've only done +16 so far and tried some +17 and only playing with pugs atm. so i guess haveing some different options depending on the groups wouldnt hurt
crystal vessel
If we play MA, then SS isn’t necessary?
spice surge
SS is far from necessary for ST
Its a midtier trait for single target, decent for burst but NP just does the burst better
scenic saffron
is 18% crit is too low to use MA or it doesnt matter ?
fallow estuary
How to sim execute Jaina as properly as possible? Like fighttime / execute% and starting out of Stealth
spice surge
Your stat levels doesnt matter for ma VS subt at all. For ST if you dont have an SS trait you use MA and if you do you use subterfuge
ember violet
Is assa in m+ this week better than outlaw or does it not matter?
inner pecan
Depends on your composition, both are viable
karmic ingot
Why are people so obsessed with sim DPS?
brisk forge
Means optimalt gear for optimal dps output
hollow stone
Because its a quick idea of how big your weiner is
karmic ingot
Optimal gear is useful to know. The sim DPS number produced by that gear is not.
hollow stone
Disagree. Simming to find upgrades is hella important. And how do you know its an upgrade? Because it sims a higher DPS number
brisk forge
The sim dps is a result from that
hollow stone
That being said, 5m patchwerk so you gotta use your brain to apply it to actual in game scenarios
A lot of people skip that 2nd step lol
karmic ingot
Again, knowing that something is an upgrade is useful information. Knowing the theoretical DPS that a bit could do to a target dummy with that upgrade is not useful. Getting better gear and performing better are useful goals. Getting higher sim DPS is not.
hollow stone
Better gear is higher sim tho..
So same same
And i think logs are better to dick flex with. But that takes too long
Sim is just a quick "look how good i MIGHT be" and people like flexing
🤷♂️
brisk forge
Wow is all about longest penis, guild ranks, highest ilvl, best logs etc
hollow stone
Dont forget girth. And yaw. We need to calculate adjusted penis size, not just lengths
Brb after my mute
brisk forge
XD
scenic saffron
should i use my second vanish before tb or envenom when MA is talented ?
hollow stone
It doesnt actually matter much. Tb before vanish allows for env m env which has the highest potential in the ma tb vend window. But tb after vanish: tb env m, is more consistent. If in the first one the m doesnt crit twice then you m again (and thats where the rng can come in).
Tldr; do what you like more but if you wanna aim for highest possible peak, tb van env m env is better (but could be worse if unlucky)
scenic saffron
assuming i am unlucky, why is tb+vanish+env+mut+mut is worse than vanish+tb+env+mut
hollow stone
Does less dmg unless you get lucky w dd procs on both those m's
scenic saffron
oh got it, thanks
hollow stone
Its minimal tho
So its not a huge deal
Personally, i always tb before van. Fishin for that luck
royal lantern
@karmic ingot i like too show off pal, thats all
hollow stone
He's just tryan to make a name for himself, thats all
brisk forge
But gotta step up his game i mean i sim 26.5k with 413 😳
hollow stone
He'll keep tryan
hollow stone
Sockets n titforges
royal lantern
sockets sockets socketrs and more sockets
sleek iron
your definition of shit is shit
shy radish
okay wait man
royal lantern
@shy radish no reason too be a dick man
shy radish
just wait i link
sleek iron
dont worry he blocked already
he doesnt understand what shit means
he is elitist
i bet his sims are dogshit
strange python
"My sims are bigger than yours"!
spice surge
@scenic saffron Mostly people just have more sockets and/or higher ilvl, but also better azerites
sleek iron
yeah the traits are bomb
spice surge
Your azerites are good but they're not perfect, and that would prob be like 1-2%
And then getting 420 azerites as well
spice surge
There are 3 different rings for dps traits
spice surge
Overwhelming power is so much stronger than any other trait in that row that it often outweights slightly subpar "main ring" traits and make the piece better
So you want raid helm (either champ or blockade, they're identical except defensives), gorak tuls shoulders and then cepha/pvp chest (also identical except defensives)
for a perfect ST setup
scenic saffron
thanks for the answers
primal gazelle
Y’all slacking I sim 26k at 408 ilvl 🤓
golden relic
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a6ZZbG427tcatx3g9r9hCp doubt 28k is possible but who knows with some luck monkas
real bay
just get 2x 425 socketed daggers 4head
golden relic
👌 
primal gazelle
let’s trade rogues
spice surge
28k is definitely possible, you get roughly 200 dps per +5 ilvl on your azerites
strange python
lone junco
that neck deeps
spice surge
He didnt change neck ilvl though, so its like +50 dps more
strange python
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
changing neck level is hard on mobile @spice surge
it takes like
2 buttons
I also don't know what heart level +5 unlocks at
rough yarrow
46/47/48
tulip kindle
Does Zen Troll Bleed passive benefit from our mastery?
rotund stone
twist knife or SS for single target?
twist knife sims better, shit alot of stuff sims better on ST for SS
lone junco
DD and TTK work well together.
desert jungle
SS does not sim well for st for me too. Even tradewinds sims higher on st for me
spice surge
SS is a cleave/burst trait, not a sustained ST trait
It is outsimmed by a lot of things on ST
civic forge
on mythic pastakan. were supposed to garrote/rup all 3 adds right, in the beginning?
assuming subterfuge/SS
plain thistle
yes
vestal wren
as sin rogue without cheating (setting itemlvls/stats unreasonable high)?
pastel vault
425 socket everything?
hybrid granite
So probably a dumb question but when watching pikaboo he said something about using back to back envenoms, does he literally mean using 2 in a row? And if so how do you do that?
carmine solstice
supple hearth
@hybrid granite envenom mfd envenom
hybrid granite
@supple hearth Oh..... I've been going Cheap shot, garrote, Rupture, MFD, Kidney, Im guessing that is not optimal lol
supple hearth
Not if you're using kidney right after cheap shot on the same person.
hybrid granite
I have been
crisp shore
hey, quick question for mythic plus. For trash is it more important to make use of subterfuge or to not overcap combo points? Should I start with 3x buffed garrote, rupture, then onto normal garrote, or 2x buffed garrote, rupture, normal garrote?
real bay
better off using fok after rupture. Normal garrote is quite weak and doesn't refund energy if mob dies early
especially if big pull
lost horizon
Big pulls you don't really fuck with normal garrote at all
bleak spoke
Garrote is giga cost energy wise
shadow agate
- question. Running 3xSS, 2xEB. Seeing some rogues running Hidden Blades over Tempest. Did I miss this switch or is it something newer?
slim socket
usually if the run HB they have 3 EB
guess it may work but imo its not something you would really want to go unless u just want to go fucking alpha and pad on trash packs
heavy skiff
I normaly go HB on fort
shadow agate
Haha but big pull trash DMG is kind of the name of the game in + isn't it. Granted I'm running the 13-15 range ATM.
heavy skiff
With 3xEB
round harbor
I wouldn't ever run tempest tbh
HB with 3eb and if not 3eb then just pb always
Energy spent on CT isn't energy spent on fok/eb dmg
heavy skiff
I go 3xeb 2xss 1xttk on fort and 1xeb 2xss and 3xttk on tyr
heavy skiff
15 to 17
slim socket
tbh if you want to go full aoe setup you'd better go outlaw ;d
round harbor
Nah
Sin has it's place in aoe
I mean I can go over 100k on every reaping, and bring all of the utility of sin over outlaw aswell
shadow agate
I prefer sin. Just more active. Multi dot melee is way more enjoyable to me.
Same. Good resets I've popped off as high as 145k with 3xss 2xeb and CT. I find PB DMG underwhelming personally, I can tell a difference in my aoe numbers.
round harbor
Highest in sin (with limited testing) burst is 200k but on that same pack could do 400k burst as outlaw
heavy skiff
I got 200k on a wm reaping last week
round harbor
Yeah wm is the largest
round harbor
I really want to onetrick sin like seli and morning but it's hard to justify it in places like wc where the bosses are tailored to outlaw
heavy skiff
I dont like outlaw at all
slim socket
but you lose ST dmg playing triple EB while playing outlaw u dont really have to choose between aoe or ST. If you spec aoe as sin you will do less on ST than outlaw and slighty more or equal aoe which means its not really worth at least that how i see it
heavy skiff
Thats why i dont play it
round harbor
My azerite is still my limiting factor. I can have bis sin OR bis outlaw but not both without switching every dungeon
heavy skiff
Im a sub main who is forced out of the spec :(
heady loom
im looking for a snapshotted garrote WA. anyone know where I can find one?
round harbor
You'd think, but not really
Sin with eb is the same thing as always
With a good kill time two vendettas will rape two ARs
Potentially even 3 vendettas
On a fight like siege last boss
round harbor
Both DPS increasing main cd's
Vendetta is more straight forward but ar is DPS increase in other ways
slim socket
but as outlaw you dont rely on rush as much as you do on vend as sin
hollow stone
AR is hot garbage compared to vend. Vend (imo) is one of the best cds in the game. But of course it has its downsides which are very clear
mint peak
Vendetta is the perfect cd tbh. Makes you very powerful but you have to time it well.
dark crag
Shb could be the perfect cd, but blizz said no
cobalt gyro
i like shb because unlike other rogue cds it actually makes you deal damage to all targets
dark crag
It lets you do that but the overall impact is small
cobalt gyro
well ya
dark crag
Fuu tried a few things like reduced cd etc and the conclusion was, shb is lackluster
jolly spoke
what should a good ass rogue pull dps wise heroic/mythic raid?