And you want to push really high, stick to outlaw
#assassination
rigid mango
opaque pagoda
I like all 3 specs while they are playable xD
rigid mango
It's the best spec in the game atm for keys, change my mind
opaque pagoda
Ty mate
coarse quartz
What's really interesting is morningwind who competes on a world scale plays exclusively assassination
I believe he's at 3k io
winter gale
1st 1000players are outlaw
spice surge
Assa isnt bad, its just harder to play and a lot harder to gear for
spice surge
But assa becomes better and better every week, as outlaw scaling is atrocious
Outlaw basicly only scales with weapon ilvl and azerite ilvl
winter gale
Will, at one moment, assa become better then?
In this season?
If it will ill stay assa
coarse quartz
Ooooooh shit morningwind is outlaw now
spice surge
If you like assa, play assa
winter gale
Morningwood 😂
spice surge
Unless you're pushing +23s, it doesnt matter since theyre both really good
coarse quartz
They're both strong but outlaw really shines in the current meta of high keys
Especially with reaping
dark crag
Outlaw has one tremendous advantage over sin, you don't have to multidot
coarse quartz
I'd argue as soon as you get to 10+ outlaw is extremely strong and doesn't require an extensive skill cap
strange python
all outlaw requires is a good roll and wits trait change my mind
dark crag
No restealths required and vanish becomes an utility skill
coarse quartz
I agree
royal lantern
you dont need rolls for m+ trash pal
royal lantern
activate bladeflurry and go ham, thats its
coarse quartz
If you can get it rolling before pull it helps a lot but yeee
lethal mauve
When bladefury ends outlaw smoke
royal lantern
bad/no roll at all doesnt make your aoe much weaker
coarse quartz
I have to say though
I'm glad that you can play all 3 specs in current content and do decently
lethal mauve
2ss 2ttk 2eb good for this week?
coarse quartz
That makes me happy as a forever rogue player
coarse quartz
TRU
spice surge
Checkmate outlosers
lethal mauve
Shadow play is a high skill
spice surge
Tbf sub isnt even THAT bad, its just not fun and there is no reason to play it
royal lantern
no fun and no reason too play pretty much means dead imo
lethal mauve
Shadow spec wait blizzard up as lock demonology
vast forum
Tbh a good sub rogue will outdo a mediocre assa
royal lantern
a good X will pretty much always outdo a medicore Y
spice surge
Yeah definitely, its defintive playable
royal lantern
except X is overtuned
vast forum
Not true
spice surge
Its just that, if you get one mechanic when you're supposed to symbols+dance
Then you're screwed for the next minute
Because things no longer sync up properly
rigid mango
I mean undaddy is assa still afaik
And he's the highest rated rogue m+ score wise iirc
elder hornet
undaddy is outlaw
rigid mango
Has he swapped now?
royal lantern
you know that you can actually play multiple specs right?
rigid mango
He was playing assa the other day
yeah but he was also commenting on how he didn't like otl
So I just assumed that he was still assa
royal lantern
i mean,i dont like bfa sub and still played it on zul/ghuun
sometimes you need too leave your comfort zone
manic veldt
I have a question for mekatorque mythic . When i have the BIG shunk on me . Do shadowstep on boss trigger on other player or not cause im not "moving" ?!
golden relic
ripe nimbus
Yah and also just tank the blasting off when ur big or u will kill people
Just hit feint and stand still
manic veldt
Thx
last egret
zandalari or blood elf for assa?
last egret
@spice surge ty
warped gate
rigid mango
No kidding
primal gazelle
looking forward to the clips
primal gazelle
they will
rigid mango
Is there any class that even gets close to unholy's aoe potential?
rigid mango
So why don't you see enough dk's around
is it just because of the lack of those types of pulls?
rigid mango
neat
primal gazelle
unholy dk dont offer any utility, and their aoe trait, festering might requires massive pulls to be worth it since it scales exponentially
like imagine echo blades without the 5 proc cap
rigid mango
So EB on steroids
primal gazelle
their plan is to probably always pull reaping into another pack, or into boss
and have the udk slam it down
rigid mango
They are running burst aoe galore tbf
Arguably the 3 best classes at burst aoe like that
crystal vessel
Does the zandalari bleed get affected by mastery?
wary ice
No
gentle hornet
Consensus on 3eb/2ttk/1ss vs 2eb/3ttk/1ss? Can go either. Been enjoying 3eb with hb though lol.
rigid mango
HB is not a need for 3 EB
more TTK > EB gives more prio damage but less general aoe damage on bigger packs/reap
gentle hornet
I don’t like CT. And my tank doesn’t leave stuff in the poison bomb pools :[ almost feel like he purposely moves them to fuck with me
strange python
any thoughts on kimbul trinket? it sims more than it does in a encounter for me
gentle hornet
True
crystal vessel
Crazy how Dk buffs undead damage, but sin mastery doesn’t buff zandalari bleed.
rigid mango
I wouldn't run HB tbh
And I prefer 3 EB over TTK, it's down to comp and personal pref
Also dungeon, for that matter
Don't run 3 EB on KR/Temple, not enough use of it there
Esp on tyr weeks where the bosses are all that's hard
gentle hornet
Do you usually do PB ?
strange python
whats the best way to practive with vanish beside raids and dungs
rigid mango
I always use PB
gentle hornet
Kk
And do you sim with dungeon slice? Or like a hectic 6 40sec (seen that mentioned a few times)
rigid mango
Uhh, idk, both seem sorta weird
gentle hornet
My outlaw sims like 4K higher on dungeon slice. Not a fan of outlaw but wondering if I’m doing my group a disservice
rigid mango
I use my set up and don't question shit too much for m+
Depends on what you're running with, what keys and what dungeons
scenic birch
3x EB + 3XSS or 2xttk 2xEB 2xSS
rigid mango
I'd go with first
It gives nuts aoe, if you can pull big it's insane
If you already have that, TTK's don't hurt you either
scenic birch
y same feeling
gentle hornet
Usually Paly tank, dh or Hunter (he’s been liking dh more lately). And we pug the third dps. Holy paly healer or pug
If tank doesn’t feel like tanking he’ll go on mage
copper remnant
Hey guys noob question :ttk = ?
solid nova
Twist the knife
copper remnant
Thx
gentle hornet
And we just push whatever keys we can. But not to the point we’re changing traits to min/max
I more change traits from raid to m+
rigid mango
Yeah but like what level
gentle hornet
15/16s
Not on that 20+ level :[
I think seli was saying the other day or 2 that lower keys outlaw is better? It’s higher keys where trash outlives the initial blade furrys that assassin can outperform it?
topaz crow
Kinda depends on the affixes and dungeon really. This would def be an assass week just by the tyranical bring in 2 minor cleave classes and ur gucci i ran with a bm hunter and ret palidan trash was a joke lol
pastel crow
Hello!
im considiring rerolling pala retri to assass rogue
good or bad move? both equal fun. but i dont feel pala shrine so bright atm
royal lantern
if you want too play only dps rogue is probably better cus you have more options
primal gazelle
tfw i sim higher on ST w/ outlaw than sin due to 3 eb traits 😦
pastel crow
Thank you tryan, how does assass perform compared to outaw/sublety
rigid mango
It's close to otulaw
royal lantern
sub is...in not a good spot right now
in m+ its close too outlaw, in raids its better
member the howl ''we dont want you too play demonlock'' thing in wod? feels like sub is in that spot right now, they dont know wath too do with it and pretty much gutted the spec
topaz crow
In the arguement of pala vs rogue kinda depends on ur group and the key. I run with a ret paly often shes damn good and the utility they bring in heals bop loh etc is nice
primal gazelle
simming single target for tyrannical bosses in M+ duh
river zinc
Does crimson tempest provide energy when it ticks on a poisoned target ?
ruby idol
Definitely not TD
Maybe shrine but i dont think im sold on more than 2 in there yet
Ct does not give energy no
river zinc
Then I don’t understand. Why would dratnos say on 3+ targets to garrotex3 then CT before a single rupture. That sounds like energy starved to me
slim socket
Garrote gives you energy
river zinc
Ok thank you. Sorry I’m a noob. I was under the impression it didn’t
slim socket
Doing CT before rupture gives you chance to do dmg before DH blast all mobs
ripe nimbus
Doing CT at all xD
primal gazelle
@ruby idol what are your thoughts on outlaw vs sin now that you have 3 echo blades?
ruby idol
I cant tell yet
Theyre both good
I think i prefer sin in kr temple ML and shrine
ML im actually back on the fence about
idle vigil
Are there any where outlaw is way ahead?
topaz crow
Basicly any fortified week+heavy trash xD
Eh should say that Look at Dad's comment those dungeons are light on trash therefore sin would pry be about even with fortified
ruby idol
Dungeons in particular? @idle vigil I think atal and wc are very clear outlaw dungeons
primal gazelle
siege too imo
ruby idol
But assa is def good in all of those
topaz crow
People also need to keep an eye on their group makeups as well, if your running 2 other high aoe dps classes, boomchicken or DH something like that well trash is gonna melt usually i go assass in those situations and focus on downing bosses as fast as i can let them worry about the trash for the most part
ruby idol
Siege im on the fence
primal gazelle
spotters keep sin rogues in combat which sucks
ruby idol
Siege def a 3 ttk dungeon
spark oyster
Maggot part in Wc is giga aids as sin as well
spark oyster
Well might as well go outlaw then
ruby idol
Getting ripped out of stealth early im sure he means
spark oyster
^
topaz crow
eh they both have their niches and it should be swapped out depending on the week and affixes
strange python
reaps aren't large
ruby idol
Id argue for outlaw in UR solely because of having sprint hook every tantrum on second boss
That alone is enough for me
strange python
hard agree
ruby idol
Cause theyre giga close in performance in that dungeon
topaz crow
^^^^if the boss lives that long
strange python
of course it will
dude has lots of health x.x
I personally still want to run sin in UR cuz sin is fun and I never get to play it
topaz crow
not on non tyrincall health ig maybe if your pushing 15's 20's we did a 13 and ripped through him and it died halfway through tantrum 1? lots of burst
sturdy python
It’s from Dads perspective, so 20+
strange python
I kinda
primal gazelle
sin for the garrote silences duh
strange python
don't believe in being picky below 15
ruby idol
Ya most things i say have to be taken in context
strange python
you can play whatever you want and time a 13 as long as you're good at what you play
ruby idol
Your keys are gonna play out differently
sturdy python
For me, sprint hook was enough for UR 17
topaz crow
my bad didnt realize the context
sturdy python
He lived for forever
ruby idol
often you choose which utility you prefer too. like if its a key that if you just dont wipe you'll probably time
gouge vs. garrote. different things shine in different dungeons
strange python
gouge is nice in ur
and tol dagor
feel like a hero every time I gouge bile and riot shield
garrote seems nicer for 2nd boss trash in UR with subterfuge to me though
ruby idol
ya exactly, whereas garrote is nutty in shrine
strange python
garroting apprentices seems 💝😍😍
I don't have a sin set so I play outlaw in shrine qq
outlaw in shrine is underrated on 2nd boss :')
tricks hook interrupt
mint peak
Boomkin high AoE lol
strange python
if i play sin in m+ is EBx3 required?
mint peak
With reaping I don't think it's worth playing unless you have at least 2 EB over Outlaw.
strange python
I've tried both specs. outlaw does more aoe dmg for sure but i hate playing outlaw on tyrannical boss fight. sin does a lot more dmg, unless outlaw gets a lucky roll.
outlaw on bosses without a really good roll feels absolutely pepega
mint peak
Not really, Outlaw can do more ST if the fight is, for example 3.5 mins long. Depends on the Assa Vendetta usage. If you don't get another Vendetta and the fight is long outlaw is equal and perhaps even higher
But for example last boss Shrine, most groups lust when you come back from 1st add phase. Having your Vendetta and trinket up for that is much more reliable than hoping you get a good roll going into that phase in addition to lust being way better for Assassination anyways. So the chances are you're doing much better in the meaningful part of the fight as Assassination and can perhaps push the boss without an extra phase, or two extra phases on a high key
fleet whale
assassination also does better when there is downtime away from the boss
fading wigeon
I just heard you can vanish at 20 stacks on jaina and not get ice blocked. How does this work?
spice surge
Alledgedly if you have the vanish buff active when you get blocked it will break instantly
IE the 3 second one
topaz crow
Vanish has a mechanic built into it that makes u immune to everything for like the first 1s after u cast it to stop from getting knocked out instantly. But gotta hit it absolutely perfect else its a waste. I don't believe its the 3s buff
mint peak
Vanish immuning is back boys
mint peak
There weren't really many raid mechanics since...maybe Cata or WotLK that were worth it though
vague oyster
Vanish doesn't work while being targeted by the Siren
mint peak
Or that I can remember at least
fading wigeon
wow crazy i will have to try it
topaz crow
Again u need to have the timing perfect else u wasted vanish which is a cardinal sin for assassin xP
vague oyster
I could have missed by 1 second yeah, but I did feel I was dead on :p
spice surge
Well, getting unethical hc kills is whatever
strange python
oh it's heroic
spice surge
It works on mythic too obv
spice surge
But you're not gonna get blocked on mythic
strange python
so I have ignored heroic everything haha, and to be honest, I've forgotten it existed
spice surge
Unless something has gone horribly wrong
strange python
agreed
mossy adder
im always finding i have to refresh my rupture in my TB so it doesnt fall off, is there a way around this? I see all the top players basically never refresh it during tb
heavy skiff
Refresh it befor.etb xD
mossy adder
is it a loss to refresh it before pandemic or to just wait and refresh during pandemic inside TB though is what i mean?
topaz crow
Yeah refresh it early or late lol or dont worry about it pry wont lose out on THAT much damage
ripe nimbus
Dont refresh early lol
mossy adder
eg looking at notflawless log of mythic mekka, and he never once refreshes rupture inside TB
and i always find myself doing it so it doesnt fall off
mossy adder
im playing TB^^
strange python
well I just figured it was slightly relevant to bring up
it seems like common sense to clip the ticks right as they're ending because you want uptime
heavy skiff
I mean how do.u get that problem tho?
strange python
but really it's just a dps loss
heavy skiff
I mean full cp rup is 24 sec
strange python
when you're using TB your goal is to set up for TB windows
mossy adder
I find that always my rupture is at like 3s mid TB so i always just refresh the rupture
heavy skiff
If u g mut rup vend tb
mossy adder
to not have it fall completely
heavy skiff
Then u have 2 globals there
strange python
He only refreshes it with 3 cp for example sometimes so he can get better timings
ripe nimbus
Ur goal is to use on cooldown.. not set up windows
strange python
have enough energy to envenom spam
strange python
🤔
you can still put in 3-5 seconds of effort to make sure your TB windows (that will exist solely because you pressed the button) are stronger
mossy adder
see some people say just TB on cooldown and dont worry about it but none of the top players are actually refreshing rup during TB
strange python
(this doesn't mean delaying TB by 3-5 seconds)
mossy adder
from what i see anyway
dapper moat
i know its more of dungeon setup but what azerite talents u run on high m+s this week still 3x EC and 2-3x SS?
if u go out as a sin i mean 😄
sturdy python
Well yeah, because they’re keeping dogs up in a way you don’t have to refresh during Tb
sturdy python
Dots*
heavy skiff
If u have to u are doing things wrong
strange python
its tyrannical so I run more twist the knives
heavy skiff
Preplan
sturdy python
If you are in that situation then refresh but the proper play is to not be in it
dapper moat
any reason why not DD, i mean why twist?
heavy skiff
The goal is to get as many env inside tb
strange python
because DD does nothing for you aoe
dapper moat
ah and twist does duh k ty
mossy adder
il give it a try, like eg a common situation is i am pooling for tb, and tb is coming off cd in like 2s and ruprure has like 8s on it
strange python
You see
mossy adder
i cant link logs cos private but i think you guys already know what i mean
strange python
"Oh tb comes up in 15 secs"
Let me refresh rupture with 3 cp only
then you can pool energy the next 15 seconds
should have another 3 cp for a short rupture refresh
then you can tb with almost full energy
and get at lest 2 envenoms in every time
(example situation)
mossy adder
Yeah i see what you mean, i saw someone post in here a while back say just use it on CD and dont worry about if you have to refresh dots during it and its actually made me play worse
hahaha
sturdy python
A big reason people always have to refresh during it is because they play too soammy
Spammy
strange python
what he does in exchange is because he refreshes rupture more often he uses more energy on that
sturdy python
And will hit a 4 cp finishers at low energy when Tb is a few seconds out
And it just throws everything off
strange python
so he gets less envenoms overall but more envenoms into the tb window
ripe nimbus
Its the smallest dps increase to pool and use 3 cp ruptures to try and maximize TB windows... u actually lose more dps then u gain if u screw it up. Unless ur 100% confident u can do it. Its not worth
strange python
How do you know its actually an increase in most cases?
mossy adder
I still parsed well but im unhappy with the way im playing overall around TB
strange python
Did you change the apl and sim it?
OMG! You know sometimes when you have that feeling.... That you did something stupid once..... And then weeks later, your noob ass remembers, Scrolls over 100 pages of item REstore and find it...... GOOORAK! 😄 YES! HAHA
Sorry if Offtopic ❤
because APL sometimes refreshes during toxic blade too
it doesnt care about low cp refreshes
idle vigil
Refreshers toxic blade?
dapper moat
during
ripe nimbus
I can tell u that pooling and all that stuff to maximize TB isnt gonna make u go from 98 to 100 it probably wouldnt even get u 99
idle vigil
Probably correct
lone junco
I mean, you can play using Hekili as well. or at least try to play smart.
mossy adder
For example now i am playing by pooling for TB, but still refreshing rupture inside it and compared to the top parsers i am nowhere near
strange python
mossy adder
and im never refreshing rupture with less than 4
lone junco
the APL isnt a bible
strange python
but then again, it could be suboptimal too
ripe nimbus
^
strange python
since apl only does what its told to and plays that optimally
mossy adder
is it better to treat tb windows like symbols windows for sub? like refresh dots early so you can just mut env during the window
ripe nimbus
Also dont compare ur self to top parses most times its because of kill time and cheesing they have top parse
sturdy python
You don’t want to refresh too early no
ripe nimbus
Dont refresh early
strange python
Also mekkatorque is a boss on its own on mythic
only way you really parse is if you dont get abilities
and just get to tunnel
also if you get big guy buff and can hit
sturdy python
What i would suggest buckie is, outside of your gcd capped windows like lust and vendetta, to build to 4+cp and wait a moment
Look at your timers on bleeds and cds
strange python
Aiming for 100 parse, and Only play to get that seems dumb. Play to do your best and kill bosses, and youre fine.
sturdy python
It helped me see how things line up and how to deal with it
topaz crow
Honestly this is a case of pick ur battles. Do u want to deal with absolutely maximizing tb but the risk is fucking up u do worse then if u just hit it on cd can u play with having to watch min max on the fly and perform ur mechanics?
strange python
If you play properly all the time 100 parses will come occassionally
but there is almost nobody that gets consisten 100 parses without cheese or some other situation
sturdy python
You definitely need to be hitting Tb as close to on cd as possible
sturdy python
If@you wait 5s often then you’re wasting Tb uses
strange python
Or alot of RNG :)
topaz crow
Hitting a 85-90 parse u played perfectly 90-95 u got lucky with rng 95-100 ur group played oerfectly and u got lucky with rng
strange python
the thing is if you are early on progress getting stuff like average 98 is very hard
85-90 should be a good number to aim for on parses
if there are only 30 people logging and you are third its already not that
ripe nimbus
85 to 90 isnt playing perfect smh
topaz crow
Ok i didnt mean perfect perfect jesus
mossy adder
Im not asking becuase i want to parse whore im asking because i want to improve at the spec, and im not early prog we are on jaina, but on the reclear i was disappointewd with how i played
strange python
@ripe nimbus No, but its a good average goal to have.
95+ average is definitely something you can aim for without very much rng and just good play
rain remnant
ttk
mossy adder
only really been playing assa for this tier so i know there is a lot i can improve on still
ripe nimbus
Do u know the meaning of the word perfect?
strange python
You wont have perfect play
Perfect execution would be playing like apl, but then again it could be apl not being perfect either due to some factors not accounted for in the apl
@mossy adder Its good to always wanna improve, but best advice you could get is probably to plan ahead.
topaz crow
Again high parses arent just your own doing it relies on u, ur group, and rng. So if u have a bad healer and ur hitting crimson on cd ur not parsing well. Improving is great but sounds to me ur picking the wrong battle
mossy adder
the waiting at say 4cp is something i can do definitely, im always trying to maximise my elaborate planning uptime so i tend to not just wait very much
strange python
Focus on having solid play overall then you can optimize
mossy adder
but i guess this is such a tiny increase that i just shouldnt worry about it
EP i mean
topaz crow
Wat sin said
strange python
Focus more on envenom uptime rather than EP
ripe nimbus
Ep and tp are both small increases to optimize
strange python
And EP will come naturally
topaz crow
Man i need to get out of here yall makin me not pay attention in class xD
strange python
why do some of my auto attack miss ?
lone junco
it has a innate miss rate
topaz crow
Ur not hit capped
lone junco
isnt it like 5%?
topaz crow
Ohhh the good ol days xD
strange python
Do like Method rogues did back in the day, gem 12% hit 😄
can i get hit capped ?
No
ic i just gotta deal with it
sturdy python
Your auto attacks miss, can’t do much
strange python
You can only avoid being parried by not standing in front of the boss
topaz crow
Omg no it was a joke aa's just naturally miss
strange python
You can't avoid it.
spice surge
Some bosses your autos wont miss
Such as the p2 of blockades, laminaria or w/e its called
strange python
Most stationary bosses also dont have a parry "clause"
whats the most thing ppl fail on assa in st ?
Not actually using tb on cd
If you delay even 2 seconds it can add up to a lost tb in the fight
is the there any downside if my bleed runs out like been have to run away from boss ?
topaz crow
Ur not doing damage+no energy regen
strange python
so i should refresh them if there like 10 sec or so and i gotta run away from boss fight like mekka example ?
You should always have them up
ic
On mekka you can time it almost all the time to have them up
except for intermission ofc
yeah thats true
topaz crow
Its something u gotta do and feel in a fight and figure out on the fly if ur gonna be back in time to refresh or not.
strange python
yeah
On mekka the only time it can really drop is
If you have to go inside a mech
vital haven
game should auto change you to another spec whenever any of your bleeds fall off
strange python
But then again that shit messes with your parses hard anyways
vital haven
its the most egregious thing you can do as sin
crystal vessel
Do you guys trust raidbots stat priority?
strange python
I mean the stat priority is accurate
but you shouldnt use it to determine upgrades
dark crag
I never trust the machines
crystal vessel
Equip, rerun, get new pawn string
strange python
every time you change the stats, the weights change so even if you have an item that has 2 best stats it COULD be that it is a downgrade over another item with different stats
crystal vessel
Rinse and repeat?
vital haven
raidbots itself tells you to trust topgear, gear compare and other stuff
vital haven
statweights are not that accurate compared to the other modes in raidbots
strange python
They are very accurate they are just not supposed to be used for that purpose
vital haven
^
crystal vessel
Refresh bleeds sub 5 seconds?
dark crag
Statweights are just for a quick look if it could be an upgrade
strange python
they are different for garotte and rupture
vital haven
Rupture, refresh with 7.2 seconds remaining at 5 combo points, or 6 seconds remaining at 4 combo points
strange python
Even then they can be deceiving
vital haven
Garrote when your current Garrote is below 5.4 or there is an additional target.
dark crag
5% is worth to sim
vital haven
i actually i would hate unstable catalyst
because i have ptsd from GCB
but its actually awesome
it procs all the time
strange python
5% is huge
storm pilot
Wat are bis traits for kings rest this week?
limpid rose
i just got the latest version of elv ui, and now im getting a combo points bar above my target fram which ends up behind bleeds etc. anyone know how to disable that bar?
rigid mango
@storm pilot I run 3 SS 2 EB 1 NP, I'd say something similar is really good
humble crane
Zandalari so bad for us. Sad 🐼. Was gonna swapwhen I got back from this month of field work.
strange python
So how does opener/vanish work with MA
strange python
thanks
primal gazelle
does dots break regeneratin channel?
river zinc
Seductive power is simming pretty high for me on M+ dungeon slice. How is it simming for others?
crystal vessel
@primal gazelle any damage breaks the regeneratin channel
Casting stealth breaks it also
patent sparrow
@subtle kiln Plater has been working just fine since patch. None of my settings changed even. (Sorry, late response)
valid orchid
finite acorn
does avalance target you if u have cloak on ?
strange python
Yes it just does no damage
finite acorn
even precloacking ? ok
strange python
its not a dot its a targeted ability
naive cypress
Avalanche is not a debuff
rancid blaze
is there a way to show combo points on the nameplates? On plater that is.
blazing kayak
what should my stat priority be looking like for patch work raid
blazing kayak
rlly
hollow stone
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
blazing kayak
alotta these assassin rogues im lookin at have like 40% mastery
sturdy python
Its different for everyone
hollow stone
Emphasis on the simming part
blazing kayak
can someone recom a good assassin rogue
sturdy python
Couldnt even tell you if 40 is a lot
hollow stone
40% mast is quite a lot
blazing kayak
that raids
brisk frost
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2GA2ZpcHV2HtXr8VwcEfk
Did they buff Filthy Transfusion trait, or is it actually possible it outdamages SS that hard? i mean i literally haven't heard about that trait be4, and it's not on any logs. what do you guys say, should i run filthy+MA over SS+subt?
brisk frost
is it worth using? since almost every boss is mainly single, except jadefire, rasta and grong (if we're skipping like champions add-padding with ss)
spice surge
id say so yes
brisk frost
300 single dps is quite much afterall
vital haven
use ss on jadefire, rasta, grong and champions
pure st traits on the rest of them
as eleem said SS by itself is pretty poor in terms of ST damage
its only decent if you have multiple of them and you have a really high GCB and you go exang
vital haven
hey man dont hate on exsang
feral shore
Yo, has anyone encountered this bug where you can use FoK out of stealth and it generates combo points without actually hitting anything? https://media.giphy.com/media/wJ64BA6DpNjguihTHX/giphy.gif sorry for shit quality
spice surge
Yes prokmi
Thats how it works after the patch
Although you get reset down to 2cp when engaging a boss
So its not overly impactful
feral shore
Oh wow, didn't read anything about it in the patch notes, cool shit, thanks!
vital haven
its a bug
rustic ether
hey guys how do i get the free healthstones
how do i get to proving grounds as a rogue
vital haven
use your garrison hearthstone
talk to the main guy on the table in front of you
next to voljin
rustic ether
okay dont shame me
vital haven
queue for proving grounds
spice surge
Do the garrison questline, otherwise you can just talk to any class trainer
Or rather, any rogue class trainer
naive cypress
During TB window we are aiming to get 2-3 envs. Is it better to get the 3rd envenom and waste some rupture uptime, or to hold the CP after 2 envenoms to use Rupture?
sturdy python
Dont let rupture fall off
I mean like, if itll fall off for 0.5s it might be worth
But in general its bad
2+ is your goal in TB
naive cypress
Ye, I get that, I am only talking in the scenario with TB
So Rupture > Env then? Unless its like 0.5 - 1s?
vital haven
Env>Rup yes
naive cypress
Alright, thanks man!
sturdy python
No clue what length of time would be okay, better to just not
Uh, no
Bleeds falling off is bad
civic palm
No time, as even if you refresh the bleed before the next tick it's reset to the full timer so you lose the energy.
sturdy python
The question wasnt about pandemic
vital haven
but 3 envenoms 😦
sturdy python
Still not worth rupture falling off
Play it so rupture is in no danger to fall off then get 3 env
naive cypress
Alright, so basically just better prep for TB window
Coming from Antorus 4 set to this. Man im just starved
sturdy python
Just keep in mind that if you arent overcapping you arent losing DPS
warm harbor
dont focus on getting 3 env's in the TB window, you're energy pool isn't really big enough to do it without a stupid amount of downtime, there isnt enough globals in the window to reliably get 3 env's (that are 4-5 CPs) without lucky crits, aiming for 2 is ideal and go for a 3rd if you get lucky crits
sturdy python
So you can sit and think about stuff a bit
pseudo hamlet
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
civic palm
3 during Vendetta, or when the Gods have dictated that you are the one.
naive cypress
How long can you hold TB for if vendetta is coming. Same as legion 5 ish seconds?
near pilot
Pinned stuff says use TB on cooldown, no questions asked but in that scenario we should hold TB to refrestt Gar and Rup no? To ensure we don't need to refresh it during the TB window
sturdy python
You should do your best to have them refreshed before TB is off CD
It happens, I suck at doing it
But thats the proper way
near pilot
yeah all this with mechanics its for sure going to happen lol
vital haven
people focus too much on the envenom dmg during TB
like ti buffs all of your nature damage for 9 secs
thats why its better to use it off cd
sturdy python
DD is massive now if you have 3
near pilot
yeah i always pool energy b4 TB to get a quick 2 mut in rocking 3xDD
vital haven
sometimes you will need to refresh dots during it
sturdy python
@naive cypress You should be able to even hit vendetta when TB is <12s off CD
Because vendetta will still be up when the 8s of TB is on the target
naive cypress
I dont run Master Assassintho
near pilot
vanish + TB with MA is pure ❤
sturdy python
Oh, nvm then
naive cypress
Dont have the crit for it
strange python
If anything MA makes you want less crit
civic palm
To a point for sure.
warm harbor
not really, you still want a lot of crit even with MA
visual quartz
not sure I understand that statement
sturdy python
Its the same thing as stat weights
Youre essentially getting more crit, if only for a window
warm harbor
still the correct answer to all this is simply sim yourself
sturdy python
So it will affect how much or little of a stat you want
Yeah, of course
Even then, MA isnt that much bigger than Subt on sims
strange python
It will influence how much of a stat you want for a certain period during a fight
If you have no crit at all on your gear, you will still want crit and it might be your most valuable stat
but if you have a average amount of crit haste mastery lets say, then ma MIGHT cause you to favor mastery and haste over crit
visual quartz
guess I was thinking MA like frost mage shatter, the perfect crit % for 100%
havnt fooled with MA subt just feels so nice
lone junco
@unkempt shoal gear matters. thanks.
unkempt shoal
?
lone junco
thought you were saying that player skill was 99%. rest was gear
unkempt shoal
Nah
lone junco
quickly was lke @strange python carried by 440 main hand wep tbh.
unkempt shoal
Gear matters as much as player skill , maybe even more
A pro with 280 ilvl cant do much
royal lantern
gear matters yeha, but 280.....weeell.....
crystal vessel
As a melee with 405 weapons, you shouldn’t put dps another rogue with semi less gear and 420 daggers.
So MA>Sub?
strange python
depends
crystal vessel
ST.
I have 3xDD 1xNP 1xTTK and 1 X SS.
405 weapons and a subpar rotation are probably the reason I can only pull 20-23k dps On fights in BoD. Even though I can hit 413 ilvl.
fading wigeon
@crystal vessel send me your logs
river zinc
@vital haven what is GCB
vital haven
galecallers boon
river zinc
so when using that..do you use GCB before the vendetta?
crystal vessel
@fading wigeon sent
peak saffron
so Zandy trolls sim bad for rogue?
civic palm
But are they bad?
peak saffron
and if so, does anyone know how to sim the Loa buffs against each other?
is Paku's best or does Kimbul's scale with ap like I've been hearing?
civic palm
It's like 200dps maybe.
spice surge
They are available on herodamage
Or if you have some previous know-how of how simc works you can go into #tc-research and find the strings
peak saffron
appreciate it
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
void gulch
Did they just hotfix the Fan of Knives CP bug?
spice surge
ye they did
wintry stone
Is it more important to get Double Dose Mutilates in Envenom windows, or Envenoms just inside EP windows?
warm harbor
generally both those sort things should be treated as passives
its tough to play around EP (and not that beneficial) and theres no point pooling energy to get quick mut's after an env
wintry stone
So then should I just be going to zero energy as much a possible and just pool going into TB?
latent gazelle
did they hot fix the cp from foking in stealth?
fleet whale
yup
fok no longer gets combo points when hitting air now
an expected change, and not really a big deal
latent gazelle
gotcha. was about to start raid n was like nooooooooo
warm harbor
@wintry stone yeah TB is really the only thing you want to pool for
strange python
Does shadowmeld proc SS? :O
warm harbor
@strange python it procs the 2 CP's yes, but it does not proc sub
strange python
@warm harbor what about the damage multiplier?
warm harbor
The SS dmg is a passive so thats always happening stealthed or not, the sub dmg multipler is not procced by meld
so basically the benefit you will get from a melf->garrote is just generating an extra CP
strange python
Ahh gotcha, thanks for clearing that up :)
civic palm
Any proof that SS increases Garrote DMG at all times and not just from stealth?
warm harbor
well the tool tip for one
civic palm
Infers bonuses from Stealth.
EB infers a passive damage increase.
Note the obvious first line.
strange python
So meld does increase ss damage for full garrote duration?
spice surge
Yes, but it only applies SS bonus damage, not subterfuge
So is not boosted by 80% like the regular ones are
So its not overly impactful, but it is better than not using it
(SS damage increase is also boosted by 80% when using regular stealth, incase you didnt know)
civic palm
Meld gives you the CP and the DMG yeah, SS gives no added damage outside of Stealth.
strange python
Right thats what i thought, thanks guys.
stable pine
If you have 3XEB - whats the target number before you stop using finishers and just spam FOK?
civic palm
Garrotes before the melee, SSx0, Garrotes after melee, SSx1
warm harbor
yep my mistake, just went over my logs then and can confirm
civic palm
👍
red zealot
Feels really bad playing with SS then going to having 0 SS
supple hearth
I'm intentionally not using certain combinations because id lose ss
red zealot
managed to finally get 3 DP 1 NP and TTK and Treach but lose SS may have to take the dps loss cause that shit sucks on opener T_T
safe flame
Here is a question, am I too haste heavy? I'm specced for M+ but when I'm specced for ST I'm simming at 23,500...Which seems low at 411 ilvl...
safe flame
Really? 18% 1221
fleet whale
also, what are the traits you run for ST, or are you stuck with EB
safe flame
For ST I run SS + DD + NP
safe flame
Hmmmm
strange python
i have 1480 and its still my highest as well
icy ember
round harbor
1900ish haste and it was still top for me
lusty narwhal
I have bis traits and haste still sims highest for me lol
rigid mango
@stable pine 3 Targets is when I start FoK spamming, 2 target normally has a prio target (say 2nd boss fh where you want 1 dead before the 2nd) 2-3+ in general
flat ocean
But i have Gorak tuls
icy ember
25.79 crit
flat ocean
Yeah started to drop off for me around 25% crit
By bis traits u mean 3xDD 1xBlightborn 1x NP 1x TTK
?
icy ember
im not sure about that
idk about blightborn/ttk 
mainly because i dont have those traits
rigid mango
Blight seems really good
spice surge
Its not that ttk is bis
spice surge
Its that the best piece that has DD and overwhelming power on it
Has TTK on it as well
icy ember
which piece is that? @spice surge
flat ocean
Cephalohide
rigid mango
Realistically how good is OP anyways, ofc it depends on the encounter etc
flat ocean
Its broken good
spice surge
Its roughly as good as everything else
flat ocean
Should be nerfed imo
icy ember
well i have spymaster's wrap, which is basically the same thing w/1dd, 1np.. but it has the elemental whirl 
rigid mango
As good as everything else, you mean the other inner rings?
rigid mango
Surely that can't be true
I get that it's nuts, but surely it can't compared to the BiS outer
flat ocean
Gaining 2000 haste is no joke
rigid mango
yeah but in that case surely the sims over at hero/blood would show it being that strong
fleet whale
it's like your own hero
rigid mango
Scoring 390 compared to 1k isn't "almost as good"
flat ocean
at 1 trait?
rigid mango
Yeah
flat ocean
thats the absolute worst for OP
At 3x its about half the value of 3xDD
Which is insane for a inner ring trait
rigid mango
Yeah not arguing that, just saying it's not "almost as good"
It does, indeed, look insane
flat ocean
Yeah like i said a bit of an exaggeration on my part xD
Can't wait for the suicidal mastery trinkeyt
That shit will be dope
Yelling at my healers all the time
rigid mango
Can't wait to trigger healers
flat ocean
sounds great
fleet whale
yeah, im rolling for that every week
i guess i could sim myself with it now, since it's techically in-game
rigid mango
Is gorak tul's the only leather piece with BI that you can roll for?
rigid mango
Rasta
fleet whale
i got pretty good shoulders from my roll, DD, NP, and Ele whirl
rigid mango
shoulders
fleet whale
whirl is meh but the rest is good
rigid mango
have OP
I'm just gonna be rolling for a new chest tbh
I'm gonna stick to desperatly trying to get jadefire shoulders and RNG'ing a new chest
Or just roll for m+, dunno yet
flat ocean
You can get EB+SS chest from rasta
rigid mango
Since I have a full set of BiS shit for otl
fleet whale
i'm a die-hard sin player so i just play sin all the time
flat ocean
Not rasta
rigid mango
The Eb ss is from conc
rigid mango
yeah
Betting on that one too
I've got it on hc
running eb/ss chest and shoulders
flat ocean
Yeah id roll something else if you want M+ gear then
Chest is only easily available one
flat ocean
Personally im holding my Residuum now for nerfs
rigid mango
nerfs?
flat ocean
Any nerfs in the future to traits
Like when the new raid releases
etc
They might gut DD/NP/OP
rigid mango
Press X to doubt
I don't think sin is a good enough place where they'll feel like nerfing core traits yet
flat ocean
I kinda feel the same
rigid mango
I wouldn't be shocked if we see outlaw tuning, wits cough cough
flat ocean
But blizz has been nerfing traits a lot
rigid mango
They've been nerfing the ones that were out of hand
flat ocean
When theyre op
rigid mango
Explosive potential cough
warm harbor
@rigid mango you cant say that they won't nerf a mid-tier spec when you look what they did you sub at the start of 8.1 (sub is a third rogue spec a lot of ppl dotn know about)
flat ocean
^
rigid mango
Yeah I know
warm harbor
not just rekt, gutted stomped that poor motherfucker into another dimension
rigid mango
ruined m+ forever pretty much
but I can see how they can never design any fight like zul again
opu
for example
warm harbor
sub wasnt even op in m+ prior to the nerf
rigid mango
They weren't, but they were top tier
I'm not saying that was why they got nerfed
just sad to see that happen
flat ocean
Opu isnt even close to the zul cheese sub could do tho
like you would still get the 2 sets of adds all the same
rigid mango
Of course not
flat ocean
you arent skipping it
rigid mango
but without a nerf
fleet whale
sub has been nerfed so blizz can kill the spec until hardly anyone plays it
flat ocean
so it doesnt change the fight at all
rigid mango
You would've seen
fleet whale
then they can focus on re-vamping it
warm harbor
its possible to just be creative around fight design rather than kill a spec
flat ocean
Same amount of mechs=not changing the fight
warm harbor
it could be as simple as the adds arent cc'able and move fast, thus you cant keep them alive
rigid mango
Well
It's not fun if 1 spec is so strong thanks to a type of fight
that you can't design such encounters
because people'll be using that spec like madmen
warm harbor
so make raid encounter designers earn their dollar?
rather than making a spec useless to make your job easier
rigid mango
oooooooooooooooor not have one insanely polarising spec
that ruins that type of fight
fleet whale
also note that while assassination is decently strong, there isn't anything broken or gimmicky atm about the spec
blizz tends to nerf gimmicky things
rigid mango
^
Exactly my point
Gimmicky or downright broken
Sub on stuff like zul, or explosive potential just now
fleet whale
potential was nerfed, though demo is still good
rigid mango
Yeah, but pre nerf they were next level
spice surge
If zul was a fight this tier (after the nerf) you would still do the sub cheese
Since subs prio damage is still miles ahead of all other classes
rigid mango
tbh I don't really feel there's anything that directly needs nerfing in the game
Just classes that need buffs
Maybe spriests scaling, idk enough about the spec/class though
warm harbor
the issue is is that the nerfs came because of encounter design not of the power of the class (in the case of the sub nerf), and its just lazy. Its the equivlent of taking lock gates away from warlocks on pre-nerf ghuun
rigid mango
Well yes and no
If a class can be so insanely strong on an entire "genre" of encounter, it's counterproductive towards the game
warm harbor
encounter designers job is too look at the potiental tool-kit of a raid and be creative to make 'non-cheeseable' mechanics
warm harbor
but you can make a very similiar encounter without it being completely cheeseable?
rigid mango
but highly abusable by 1 specific spec isn't healthy, now I wished sub was nerfed in some way SOLELY for that boss
But balancing in wow doesn't work that way if not pvp/pve balancing
Sub weren't broken for anything but zul, and it sucks that a core part of the spec feels like it was ripped out from within
warm harbor
lets not forget suriken combo was a thing for legion and wasnt broken at all
rigid mango
but limiting the design of the game thanks to 1 spec isn't fun for me
^didn't play rogue in legion so no clue rly
warm harbor
but the game design is limited by a whole range of class tool-kits
rigid mango
but atleast all I know is I never heard the type of shit in legion that i did around zul
warm harbor
because fight designers most likely took it into account when designing encounters
take zul for example, a simple-ish fix would be to make the adds explode after a time of being alive
give them enough health so that they can be alive for a little bit but do need decent dps to kill
rigid mango
ooooor just make the fight as is and take away the 1 thing hard abusing it?
warm harbor
but that 1 hard thing is an entire spec?
rigid mango
Yeah
warm harbor
entire spec used for all types of gameplay > badly designed boss
rigid mango
<
Well designed boss that was weak to 1 spec
There's nothing that hinders blizz from buffing sub at this point
if they're not designing a similar encounter for 8.2
warm harbor
but nerfing specs based on encounters is just stupid
rigid mango
It was a band-aid fix
fleet whale
blizz does not like gimmicky aspects of any spec. Despite how much people liked DFA, at the end of the day it was still gimmicky, hence why blizz nerfed it
rigid mango
Quite obviously
fleet whale
they arguably should have removed combo in beta
then they could have had more time to sort other things out about sub
rigid mango
idk
I think that with there not being a zul
around
atm
that it'd be weird for blizz not to buff sub, but probs in some other way
Idk what's happening for aze traits in 8.2 etc, so that might be when they get to shine again
I just think the nerf was justifiable, but implies that rebalancing of the spec is needed elsewhere
fleet whale
remember sub was pretty strong before the zul nonsense at the start of bfa
rigid mango
Wasn't it the best, raid wise?
warm harbor
yep, so before some trait nerfs it was ahead in ST by quite a bit
rigid mango
And i also saw people bringing it to mdi etc
fleet whale
it was hyped a crap ton by method when they released their M+ preview
rigid mango
Hyped for havoc + outlaw mdi
warm harbor
its the mdi of the triple melee, cant wait
plus telling all the DK tanks to get fucked will be a nice change
rigid mango
Unholy dk
fleet whale
it's not like sin is bad for M+ though
warm harbor
yeah but if your team doesnt have a slow it can be more valuable
outlaw/sin/havoc might pop its head up
fleet whale
crippling poison is great for necrotic
warm harbor
or outlaw/sin/ww
rigid mango
Feela like
Rogue + havoc is near mandatory
Not entirely, but insane
And warr tanks + resto seems nuts, not shocking
warm harbor
that ww monk buffing not only the rogues dmg but the warriors is crazy powerful though
and with the 8.1.5 buffs to it (well bug fixes*) it'll compete on dmg
rigid mango
Yeah idk, i think if you're gonna bring a 3rd melee
Why not just go unholy
And pull insane shit
warm harbor
no ultility besides a grip
rigid mango
But 370k dps
warm harbor
i suppose if they are only +14s and +15s though
cobalt gyro
if you're taking a UH dk you don't really need anymore AoE
you can pull huge in 13's so it'd be getting value all the time
warm harbor
just take a DH and WW to buff its dmg
warm harbor
oh yeah and shroud, silly me
spice surge
Just play double rogue 4Head