assassination

[marble hemlock]

@primal gazelle @fleet anchor just from a few short tests, no statprocs no nothing, im looking at the follow scaling from 1 trait, pieces are 415:
1 scent trait but no ruptures - envenom 11877 damage
1 scent trait, 4 ruptures - envenom 12936 damage
1 ttk trait - envenom 14635 damage

ive played scent for a long time since i really like the basic idea of the trait, but i dont know where this is coming from

[strange python]

How the hell can you that much azerite gear

[warm geode]

for the EB sim we get : AoE 10 targets/40sec no lust -> https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3hU5miFYSWmTMFnLwj4xko
ST -> https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mX4vsdMd2n4DrVRt2b4Q67

@strange python got the string from wowhead

[strange python]

OH rip

[warm geode]

idk if is apl priority list, but , overall dps SoB>TtK BUT priority target damage TtK > SoB

[marble hemlock]

so you would get the same envenom damage from scent agi with 11 scent stacks, disregarding for a second that thats pretty much impossible to achieve anyway, and you would still have to keep in mind that casting 11 ruptures vs casting 4 and then 7 envenoms would still be less envenom damage on the priority target(s)

rupture scaling on singletarget through SoB is peanuts

or priotarget, for that matter

[cobalt gyro]

You'd never realistically get a chance to put up 11 ruptures, and even if you did, very rarely would anything live long enough to benefit a worthwhile amount, no?

[marble hemlock]

yes

ive played 2sob 1ss for a long time in s1 until EB came out

in a freehold or ML gigapull, i would usually be able to get 8 ruptures up, with weaving CT in between and stuff

[cosmic pier]

but if you're gige pulling, spamming fok with eb is higher damage

*giga

[marble hemlock]

well yeah, EB is kinda of a stupid trait in that sense

[quick ice]

for 11 ruptures you'd have to start recasting on them straight away assuming you cast them every 2nd GCD?

[cobalt gyro]

Ya, that's about what I get on those dungeons, but I find it more worthwhile to keep 4-6 ruptures and dump with envenoms

[marble hemlock]

i preferred the old sob days where multidotting on 6+ targets was the way to reach somewhat similar aoe numbers

with eb its just much simpler, and more burst as well since it doesnt require any rampup

[cobalt gyro]

I haven't run CT since I got more than 1 EB trait, tho

Feels weird on huge pulls

[marble hemlock]

anyway, 4scents on prio would be a ~200damage increase to rupture ticks

[warm geode]

following the simms , this is only using Eb + ( SoB/TtK/SS/ Unstable Catalyst )

AoE ( 10targets/40seg/no lust) : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tkuUvtMp9BNqkmnBFm4BGB
ST : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cZ6qFVw5VvvdPiXfAEvTzM

[marble hemlock]

you can do way more

since the sim still uses vendetta, tb/exsang etc.

[cobalt gyro]

I'm assuming you're running tb, seli?

[marble hemlock]

which you wouldnt do on a big pull

ye

tb/pb

the envenom spam actually makes PB a fairlly strong contender even for CT

esp in dungeons with lower trashcount

averaging about 5-7% in something like an underrot

where id usually pull like 8-9% CT damage

PB used to be closer to 3-4% in a dungeon like that

id love to see scent of blood become a better trait

[cobalt gyro]

It's a build I'd like to try when I get access to more traits (as in more azerite pieces), because it seems like it does hella damage to prio targets which my main group lacks

[marble hemlock]

ttk? ye

i mean, i run 3ttk 2eb 1ss currently

[quick ice]

scent of blood feels like one of those azerite traits where its a good idea that is beaten by numbers tuning on other traits?

[marble hemlock]

still did 40.6k in the ML23, compared to the 45k the demo did

SoB was a great trait, until they introduced EB

[warm geode]

@marble hemlock thoughts on hidden blades ?

[marble hemlock]

which is just a better SoB

tried it once on a dare, it sucked

[cobalt gyro]

I'm not sure how to get to those numbers, is it in how big you pull?

[marble hemlock]

if you want AoE, CT is better

[cobalt gyro]

Best I've had on sin is about 35k

[marble hemlock]

definitely

the bigger the pull, the higher the dps

[spice surge]

I could see kojis argument about 1 NP being decent , since it would let you forego one rupture on a prio pack with vendetta

But overall prob not worth

[cobalt gyro]

Ah, I suppose we just do very conservative pulls then

[marble hemlock]

the problem i have with NP is that we dont run any haste in m+ gear

[lone junco]

dont you need haste for np

ye

[spice surge]

Not really

Mastery empowers it way more

[marble hemlock]

and we also dont have anything to spend that energy on on ST

if we pool properly

we s till get 3envenoms into TB

[lone junco]

prob. mastery always pumped exang even though it worked with haste.

ive liked subterfuge tb pb

[marble hemlock]

the main issue with NP however, is that using vendetta isnt as straightforward

sometimes you just sit on it for a minute or two because theres no good target to use it on

the idea about TTK is that it provides you the flexibility to swap between aoe and prio damage in any given moment

want prio? use envenom at 4+. want aoe? overcap CP; and just maintain EP

need to swap prio? just envenom earlier instead

if mob1 has 20% more hp than the others, you envenom it 2-3 times, suddenly mob3 is higher? just swap targets, do the same, even out HP again

thats what makes it so good (imo)

no set up required

[cobalt gyro]

Would you say it's worth losing item level to get a TTK set?

[quick ice]

the EZ-Bake oven of builds!

[marble hemlock]

doubt its worth that much, maybe 15

i wouldnt chase TTK unless youre pushing super high

[spice surge]

There are good TTK pieces from the raid

[cobalt gyro]

The only keys I need now are 19+

[spice surge]

Shoulders from rasta and head from opu are both good

[marble hemlock]

the lower the key, the smaller and safer the pulls, meaning no reaping with bosses/trash, no chainpulls, less concern about prio and more concern about overall

all of which favor SS over TTK

[smoky comet]

I play assassination for raids and outlaw for M+, I currently have a 415 cephalohide Jacket, and Gorak Tuls Mantle, Should I gamble for a helmet next?

[marble hemlock]

theres a few dungeons, like ML or UR, where you just chainpull a lot, and running more than 1 SS sucks ass

[spice surge]

@smoky comet I mean, you already have the best pieces, just try to kill the first boss on mythic for a helm and you're set

[cobalt gyro]

I have a 3x EB 2SS set up that I like, I just think I habe too much aoe and lose on boss damage

[marble hemlock]

we wouldnt have timed the ML if we had to stop cause i wanted a restealth. only running 1SS allows me to tell the tank that i dont give a fuck about restealth and that he should chainpull as much as he wants

its usually better for other DPS as well, you only want to drop combat for another prepot

[cobalt gyro]

I suppose swapping to night elf could make that stronger too, hmm

[smoky comet]

@spice surge Ok I’m going to start working on that this next reset, thanks.

[bronze kelp]

depends on the content you want to do

^^

i would gamble for head

dont like TC as trait

[strange python]

@hollow wraith plz fix that dagger mog

colors dont match at all

[quick ice]

christmastree style

[strange python]

@marble hemlock I currently have Opulence, Conclave, Rasta. 415 all with 2xEB 2xTTK 2xSS. I see your point of chainpulling. With not many options. Would to swap the head from Opulence (SS TTK. ) foe engineering.(TTK bombs)?

I also then get 2x OP that might be good? 🤔

[marble hemlock]

yeah

id swap

i kinda dislike the bombs, the few runs i did with it, the damage seemed incredibly underwhelming

[strange python]

Well atleast you are not stuck with 2xSS and need restealth

So That would nice I suppose

Could go the Haste on the head but feel too much haste with 1xhaste traits + 2 OP. If OP is even good to start with

[marble hemlock]

its kinda funny, cause with 3ttk i usually get restealth between trash/reaping cause i myself make sure mobs die evenly

when i run 3ss/3eb for example, i always struggle with getting the restealth off

[bold lintel]

hey, which is currently stronger toxic blade or exsanguinate?

[patent elk]

@sacred pier do you think it's better to run 1x SS 2xTTK 3x EB & Toxic blade rather than 2x SS , 1x TTK , 3x EB with exsang ?

[real bay]

why run ttk with exsang tho

[patent elk]

Have been running with exsang cos got 2x ss on that setup

Don't really have other good combinations.

[fallow estuary]

19 M+ - 2x EB/3xSS or 3xEB/2xSS?

i'd say depends on traits - EB stronger in teeming/fort and SS in Tyran/NonTeeming | But i might be wrong thats why i'm askin

[marble hemlock]

i prefer TB for prio

id say that tb gives you a bit more prio on trash, exsang with ss gives you more damage on bosses

since boss-killtimes usually get you a second vendetta+vanish combo

if they dont, id say TB is better

for us most bosses are >2m30

[fleet anchor]

@marble hemlock Hey, yeah I clarified that later. Was less specifically about just Envenom damage but priority target damage in general. (Poisons, Melee, Rupture, etc.)

Since obviously SoB buffs everything including Envenom

[spice surge]

SoB doesnt buff echoing though

[fleet anchor]

Think I was seeing that average Envenom hit for around 1.5k more damage but overall priority target Damage was 500 dps less.

Well neither does TtK so I don’t think that matters in this case?

[spice surge]

Well no, i was mostly refering to "buffs everything"

[fleet anchor]

As mentioned later in the discussion I actually think Blightborne Infusion might be the best play as a single trait filler. Works better with EB as well.

[royal lantern]

@spice surge do i need too understand why SoB doesnt buff EB? or im stupid right now....?

[spice surge]

EB is a flat number, doesnt scale with Agi

[royal lantern]

or you mean the proc

......derp, your right

[fleet anchor]

Well it buffs FoK and poison damage also which is a large part of the global. But seems like semantics. 😛

[royal lantern]

its ilvl, not stat scaling

[lone junco]

@marble hemlock get restealth when you dont need it. cry for restealth when you run 3ss. makes sense.

such is my pugs.

[fallow estuary]

https://prnt.sc/mwbptj

Gamble for +44 dmg increase for jaina

OR

for EB/SS helmet for M+?

🤔

Allrdy have SS/TC helmet tho for M+ which is nice aswell

[spice surge]

I assume thats an execute sim, but gorak is worse in practice than that

Because overwhelming is pretty equal to every other trait there on jaina, because of the chilling touch

[fallow estuary]

It's 300Seconds normal boss

[marble hemlock]

@fleet anchor how many targets did you use in that comparison? since id argue that the more targets you have, the more valuable envenom becomes for prio due to higher CP gen

[fallow estuary]

But i should sim important dmg checks ye

nice point

[spice surge]

Blightborne/dd/op for gorak? Should be way more than 44 dps

[fleet anchor]

That was at 3T but I don’t really think the Envenom damage could keep up with a 4th Rupture if that’s available. Hard to say though.

[marble hemlock]

and i fully agree with blightborne flying under the radar currently, both for m+ and singletarget

[fallow estuary]

i used NP - lemme resim with blightborne

[fleet anchor]

I was going to specifically put together a prio target APL tweak today to look into this some more.

[marble hemlock]

well, that would be the most interesting case though, since the main reason why a lot of us are running multiple TTKs is that with 8+ mob pulls, you can fairly reliably get 4+ CP from a single fok and then pummel a specific target

[fleet anchor]

Personally I’m not a huge fan of SoB so not specifically pushing it. But I think it could be good in these types of situations.

[marble hemlock]

on lower mob-counts id say SS beats everything else, SoB will probably have a sweet spot somewhere at 4-6targets, and on bigger pulls i fully expect TTK+EB to pick up steam

[fleet anchor]

On a pull like that. Say 6-8 mobs. How many Ruptures are you keeping up for energy gen/damage on average?

[marble hemlock]

4

[spice surge]

4 bleeds, not necessarily ruptures, since you have garrotes out from subterfuge

[marble hemlock]

4 with 12% haste is enough for ~30 consecutive 35energy gcds i think

[fleet anchor]

Ok. I’ll make something somewhat based on that today and look into it a little bit.

[marble hemlock]

and by that time you weave in a few 25energy ones to refresh those ruptures

but i do agree, for pure prio on a pre-defined target, np and potentially even SoB might outscale ttk

[fallow estuary]

@spice surge you're right, with blightborne it's suddendly a difference of 400 DPS - i'm very confused tho, i thought the 2nd stack of NP was still stronger then Blightborne (according to HeroDamage) - never knew Blightborne was that strong

Atleast not 360DPS stronger 🤔

[marble hemlock]

SoB will fall behind on bosses, especially when running a high-crit/mastery gear with proper energy-pooling, and once you get into the nitty-gritty of having 10mobs with the same hp, and constantly switching targets to keep them all at the same level, ttk is just the most flexible

[spice surge]

Because herodamage only sims 1/2/3 traits VS 0 traits. Blightborne is incredibly potent when you have 3 dd

To get more cp for higher envenom uptime

(and the fact that critting with DD is a lot of damage)

[marble hemlock]

blightborne at 415 is like what, 15% crit?

[fallow estuary]

i see - so it would make sense to go for gorak's even tho OP performs worse on jaina

Since i need Blightborne

thanks m8 :)

[winter gale]

3xSS 1xEB or 2xSS 2xEB ? For m+

[cobalt gyro]

How much crit rating is it at 415

[spice surge]

1319

1 crit % is like 70-75 rating right? So its like 18%~

[marble hemlock]

ye

its pretty nutty

[cobalt gyro]

20% or so ya

Hard to get on a piece with good traits

[fleet anchor]

Gorak is a nice piece. 🙏 for RNG

[marble hemlock]

same for scent, actually

[spice surge]

I mean, i only exists on gorak

[marble hemlock]

getting scent on a good piece is actually quite hard

TTK is pretty easy to get just from raid, esp since most leather classes do not want opu helmet/rasta shoulders 😄

[fleet anchor]

Yeah

I was running 2x even in raid for a while because of the pieces I had. Was sad about that though. lol

[spice surge]

Its odd how much worse swirling sands is compared to blightborne

[cobalt gyro]

I have a helm w/ blightbourne

[spice surge]

Swirling is 989 crit for 18s, whereas blightborne is 1319 for 14s

[fleet anchor]

Swirling Sands isn’t bad though

[marble hemlock]

procs more often tho

id assume

swirling is probably preferable in m+, where you want consistency over RNG

atleast i do

[fleet anchor]

It’s slightly worse but probably the next best trait.

[cobalt gyro]

blight has ~24% uptime or so

[spice surge]

Both have 1 rppm seli

[fleet anchor]

But there are no good Swirling pieces at all

[marble hemlock]

oh

nvm then

[fleet anchor]

Every single Swirling piece has TtK on the outer ring

[marble hemlock]

so its like the razorleaf, where the low amount of crit and duration make you think its gotta have high uptime, but then it doesnt 😄

[spice surge]

If wowheads data is correct, but i assume it is

[marble hemlock]

what happened to having rppm/icds in the trinket tooltip 😦

[fleet anchor]

And then Swirling competes with like SS or NP on the inner ring. lol

[cobalt gyro]

if it's the same as it is for alliance, bc of how those traits work

horde might have easier access to swirling than alliance

[fleet anchor]

Swirling Sands has the buff duration extend mechanic though which is fairly easy to hit

[spice surge]

Well yeah, what i wrote included the max duration from that

Otherwise its just 12s, 18s is max

[fleet anchor]

But yeah it’s definitely worth simming generics

They can be pretty strong sometimes

[spice surge]

But yeah, overall average crit is like 296 with swirl and 307 with blightborne, assuming 0% haste

Which is quite significant

[sleek iron]

if u have 2x double dose, is it still worth to fok at 3+ targets

[spice surge]

No, 5+

or 4/3 to maintaing poisons iirc

[golden relic]

what affects if NP sims higher then BB, cuz it was in the past for me ( like a week ago) , now its vice versa

my own crit i assume

but its not gone down at all barely

[old escarp]

Could be dependent on what other traits/stat changes you made in the last week.

[winter gale]

Guys

Whats the best way to deal with reaping?

Garrote/rupture 3 or 4 and then FOK non stop?

Or use finishers?

[golden relic]

thats the point, my gear has swapped one piece , and the change was some agility cuz of a 15 ilvl gain , and roughly 40 crit lost for 50 haste, feels like its too small of a change for a trait to be all of a sudden better, but idk maybe not

[idle vigil]

@winter gale depends on your build

3 empowered garrotes and 3 ruptures will energy cap you

Outside of that spam fok and CT just to refresh bleed

Can also vanish garrote for 3 more empowered garrotes, does more damage then 3 ruptures and the energy regen starts immediately

[old escarp]

If you’re running multiple EB (I’m assuming or you wouldn’t be skipping finishers) it might be best to keep spamming fok as long as you have bleeds rolling. Or dump envenoms into the high HP target

[winter gale]

I play with 3xss 2xsob 1xeb @idle vigil PS. without CT

[spice surge]

It depends on what type of reaping it is

If its low hp mobs you just fok and rupture one of those that will die early (to "snipe" the energy refund)

If its low hp mobs+1 big mob then you do that but instead of overcapping cp with fok you envenom the big dude

If its decently high hp ones then you try to put bleeds on multiple ones

This isnt really reaping specific, but also in general for assa in m+

Low hp and high hp in this case doesnt necessarily refer to how much hp they have, but rather how long they will live. Things that have a lot of hp can die fast if your party uses their cooldowns and vice versa

[winter gale]

I average between 25 and 28 total dmg. I feel like I need to pull out more

[idle vigil]

Run more EB

[winter gale]

And alot of times reaping get me while in combat . Should I use Vanish?

[idle vigil]

If you want raw damage, teeming/fortified weeks gonna be a shit ton of aoe

[spice surge]

Probably more gameplay related rather than setup related

As is the case 99% of the time

[unkempt shoal]

Noob question , does having a enchant on the main hand or on the off hand changes anything ?

[idle vigil]

Vanish on CD for empowered garrotes

[spice surge]

No junko

[winter gale]

I started to use Vanish before reaps to get those SS

Since i play with 3 if I dont use it Im doing nothing

[spice surge]

If youre putting garrotes on the low hp reapings its not gonna be worth it

Gotta target the big dudes

[winter gale]

No no, i try to put it on bigger adds

Y

When I check herodmg site SS sims best, better than EB

But maybe one more EB will make my life easier

[idle vigil]

Don’t trust blindly

Look at the sim conditions

How many targets

Length of fight

[heavy skiff]

I have a q

Is it worth to use 6 garrotes on 6 targets?

I have 3eb and 2 ss

It just feels wrong to not spam eb 4 that long

Is that the way to go or do i just ggg r then go into fok spam

And later when it goes off i vanish ggg again

?

[old escarp]

For this current (teeming/fort) I’ve been a filthy padder wit 3x EB, 1 SS, 2 TtK. Or just outright playing outlaw. Think this week is definitely more of an exception as i tend to play more SS/priority role. It’s all team comp dependent for most people. This week I’ve been playing aoe pad + pump envenoms into high HP and it’s worked decently well. I do lack consistent ST dps but team comp makes up for it

[spice surge]

Why would you have not have consistent ST? You're gonna be running 2/3 eb regardless of weeks

And unless the fight is abnormally short twist is better for ST than SS is

[old escarp]

@heavy skiff honestly a tough question. Everything is top scenario dependent. If you’re in a fort/teeming triple pull in ML with hero then yes go 6x garrote. If it’s a reaping not pull maybe get ggg r then fok spam.

My ST is on the low side with the above stated traits. Typically on tyrannical weeks I run 1 EB 3 SS 1 TtK and 1 BB letting my teammates handle aoe. I think inconsistent dps was a poor word choice

[spice surge]

If they live long enough for the garrotes to do close to its full damage then its worth, otherwise its not Xeox

[primal gazelle]

@rose perch if you need a guild, apply to spk 😃

[fallow estuary]

Is there an easy way to target high hp mobs in reaping 🤔

Like do they typically have a different name?

[spice surge]

Yes, risen souls are the low hp ones

Tormented/lost souls have more hp

[heavy skiff]

Ok ty

[hardy mulch]

why is it worth to cast garrote twice with ss in opener but not without ss but with subterfuge? u get either empowered garrote

[blissful tide]

Because the amount of cps you generate with a SS garrote is higher than a garrote with just subterfuge

3x2 compared to 2

[heavy skiff]

It has cd

Ss removes garrote cd when used from stelth

[sick cradle]

On Opulence, does ruby work with autos or just abilities?

[strange python]

Less cps and less damage.

Abilities

[hardy mulch]

subt removes cd not ss

[heavy skiff]

Oh my bad

[hardy mulch]

couldnt u just go garr->mut->garr for 4-5 cps + full time empowerd garr ?

[spice surge]

Yes you could

But that energy is spent more efficiently by not using the second garrote

[heavy skiff]

Why would u play subt without ss tho?

Just play ma

[hardy mulch]

so it becomes more efficient with the added dmg from ss

[spice surge]

Moreso because of the extra cp

[hardy mulch]

ok

still weird :x

[cobalt pelican]

it's not really weird, if your garrote does less damage and gives 1/3 of the combo opints the value of an extra global+energy cost for the pandemic addition goes down significantly

45 energy for 5.4 seconds of garrotes ticking at 1k per and 1 cp vs 45 energy for 5.4 seconds of garrotes ticking at 5k per and 3 cps, one is worth more than a mut one is not

[elfin valley]

yall got any tips for mythic jadefire? Just increasing dmg output or cheesing mechanics

[idle vigil]

Keep your double dot uptime high

Clear traps with cloak sprint

Save step to interupt monks whirling shit immediately

Fok during first transition with cats up is correct (5 targets)

[cobalt pelican]

general cd usage i found best was, vendetta opener hold vanish till after first multistrike, hold everything till first multistrike after barrier for second cds + pot

depends heavily on kill length and how fast your gruop pushes though

i think it's possible to get 3 vendettas for a lot of groups but the only way to do it is get one super scuffed one before the 60 energy transition

[elfin valley]

also on logs it shows outlaw over sin for mythci but vise versa on heroic

any thoughts on one vs the other

[cobalt pelican]

both are fine for prog, depends on how fast the tigers die for you really

[elfin valley]

i assume longer the tigers up the better outlaw is?

[cobalt pelican]

if the tigers/barrier are dying fine i'd just play assasination

[charred oak]

What's the best skill to bind on-use trinkets, such as Lustrous Golden Plumage to?

I'm thinking maybe vendetta?

[fleet whale]

plumage and vendetta macro would work wonderfully

[charred oak]

Cool, thanks

[elfin valley]

@cobalt pelican thank toy btw

[lean helm]

Is there anyone streaming assassination mythic+?

[lone junco]

Lots. Check the stream channel

[sturdy python]

Watch #rogue-streamers for pop ups

[lone junco]

Seli has recorded runs as well.

[lean helm]

Sweet thanks

[lone junco]

@lean helm https://www.twitch.tv/incarnated

check out some of his saved runs. should be plenty

[icy ember]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/49bjCCWF2Zp4QYY3tq4waz is there any difference for NP/TC? it doesn't seem to matter

[copper kestrel]

What're the best races for assassin rogue? And how much does it really matter? I've got a 406 human starting mythic raiding. I don't need the rep boost anymore

[strange python]

Night Elf sims 4% ahead of the rest, because of shadowmeld garrote with SS

For mythic plus I believe tho

Racials doesnt matter that much, play what you want. Since if you're starting mythic now you aint minmaxing.

Just have fun 😃

[royal lantern]

''best'' race does 1,5%more dmg, ''worst''0,5%

that means when you do like 25000 dps as the ''worst''race

you will do 25250 as the ''best'' when everything happens 100% same, same amount of crits, procs, etc.......

the difference is so small, you are way way WAY more likely too do more dmg by actually playing good/better then change your race

[primal gazelle]

oo its necrotic raging week

bring them sin rogus 😄

[wary ice]

What makes sin good?

[primal gazelle]

snares

for kiting

[wary ice]

Oh yeah

[primal gazelle]

and boomy for dispel raging

[wary ice]

I forgot about crip poison because I'm a bleed member u kno?

[cobalt pelican]

2% is pretty significant

[wary ice]

Ty for setting up my bad joke

[primal gazelle]

swap to BE for that 1% crit

1% more EB procs 😮

[wary ice]

:o

[brave gyro]

Any tips for mythic rasta?

[strange python]

Finally got sockets crit heavy hands. 1803 crit without food, mmmmmmm the EBs 😮 😮

[royal lantern]

@brave gyro get 2 shamans, kill totems fast, dont get hit by the watermelons

[brave gyro]

😂

thanks

i'll be watermelon-free

[scenic birch]

statweights for m+? i play 3x SS 3x EB

[primal gazelle]

for those particular traits for max aoe dmg, prob crit>vers>maste>haste

[scenic birch]

tyvm

[royal lantern]

got the rasthakhan shoulders now

2xttk 2xeb feels good

[real bay]

1901 crit rating but that drops my ilvl liek 7

[gloomy dew]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[copper kestrel]

Re:Race only being a 2-4% dmg increase. Yeah, it's small, but so are azerite traits, talents, trinkets. These things all stack. I'm already parsing well / not making mistakes. Why not get an extra squeeze on damage. Especially if it gives me another vanish 😄 (instead of EMFM which puts pvp trinket on CD now 😦 )

[royal lantern]

in wich world is azerite/trinkets only a small increase

and racials are litearly the lowest dps difference

[copper kestrel]

Non-shitty azerite trait/talent/trinket combinations regularly sim <1% different for me 🤷

And I still change my gear for it

[nimble tartan]

🤤

[primal gazelle]

https://www.twitch.tv/lightee7/clip/CleverDelightfulCattleDBstyle?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

imagine doing reaping, and by the time you just get your 4th rupture off, the dk already did 8m damage 10 seconds into the pull

[golden relic]

hate when that happens

[storm pilot]

is there a way to sim fights like rastakhan mythic?

[spice surge]

Well, the only part that matters is basicly just ST

[primal gazelle]

holy fuck darkee finished at 52k dungeon dps in that 17 fh

with yodarr last at 40k dps

[visual quartz]

yeah and most rogues ( not speaking for all guilds) go down below for more st dmg

[golden relic]

being sent down to bwomsamdi as a rogue, feelsbadman

[quasi pewter]

do not all guild play only range down with the doors at entrance?

🤔

[royal lantern]

need 1 dh for debuff

[spice surge]

Just poke him before he goes down

Dont need to send the dh down

[royal lantern]

i used MA and got 4cp mulitate>envenom crit>4cp mulitate

it happend

it actually happend

[strange python]

What haste % is ideal

[spice surge]

There are no hastecaps

[strange python]

I’m asking what should I aim for

[spice surge]

High ilvl gear that doesnt have vers

[strange python]

I’m at 13% and mastery sims higher

[royal lantern]

w8, what?

are you simming ST?

[strange python]

Yh

[visual quartz]

that seems wrong : \

[drifting cloud]

if he has triple dd and almost no mastery

and they probably still sim barely identical

[spice surge]

Stat weights are fairly irrelevant anyway. They're just a very broad approximation, but with how easy simming is with raidbots they are redundant in most cases

[lone junco]

@strange python post the raidbot.

[strange python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ncxYjatmDTUwznRWMmZyQz

[chrome karma]

so is zandalri troll looking good for sin?

[strange python]

I got a new ring and it changed a bit I guess

It used to be 2.6 mast 2.3 haste

[lone junco]

whats wrong with that sim. my rogue is 391 at 21k

[visual quartz]

dagger needs deadly

[sturdy python]

Mastery most likely

Sim too gear enchants

[lone junco]

thats not enough

scent is low

[spice surge]

Enchants, missing azerite traits etc

[sturdy python]

It will likely tell you to put masterful on off hand then have haste as your top stat again

[lone junco]

prob

[sturdy python]

The question wasn’t why was he simming low

Was why haste wasn’t top

Doesn’t really matter though what’s top

[lone junco]

when the gear is in a odd arangement, it results in odd weights

[sturdy python]

Sure that’s true

[strange python]

My I just got new gear so I haven’t enchanted yet

[lone junco]

and for the record 2.77 and 2.72 are irrelvantly close

[strange python]

Ik it used to be 2.6 2.3 before

[lone junco]

if you get that 3rd DD and go to MA it will pop.

[strange python]

I think my sim is low because I have bad trinkets

[lone junco]

honestly was checking for long sim times. it is set to weekly

it looked low enough to be funny

i use that bijou

(400)

but you have 10 ilvl on wep on me.

[strange python]

Mine are 385

[lone junco]

its all good. keep at it.

[strange python]

Master assassin and 3 dd?

I’m kinda new only 2 months so I’m new to wow in general

[candid dragon]

outlaw or assassination?

[visual quartz]

curious if Mekka negates nature damage from heed my call trait. 2hour night of progression and I have zero heed my call dmg done?

[cold horizon]

Traits bug out sometimes, take your gear off and put it back on should be okay, I did a night of prog and had 0 nothing personal damage

[jovial aurora]

has anyone simed on ptr which is the best loa buff from embrace of the loa on a zandalari Assassination rogue

[ripe nimbus]

Prob the crit one

[potent oracle]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[primal gazelle]

Players who select the Vigor talent now resurrect with full Energy.

rogue buffs!

[civic palm]

woo

[primal gazelle]

Kings' Rest & Shrine
Mythic Keystone time limit increased by 3 minutes.

THIS IS BIG

😮

[civic palm]

woo

[ripe nimbus]

That vigor change seems so pointless lol

[civic palm]

Entirely, I've never seen this be an issue quite literally ever I believe.

QoL though so, that's nice.

I suppose.

[ripe nimbus]

How bout make our cheat death reset on death like it was for the entirety of the games life until they decided to make a pointless change

[civic palm]

Also, any reasons 2min CDs don't reset on death?

/boss reset?

[ripe nimbus]

Something something abuse

[civic palm]

no more abuse than a 5min CD I imagine... Blizzurd

[stable pine]

3xEB is so fuckin LUL on reaping

[sudden gale]

is it better to go with crimson tempest than poison bomb this week in m+? A friend of mine is saying the pro-rogues still have poison bomb but he cant remember why.

[buoyant coyote]

on opu do you just say fuck pandemic during Charge side on mythic if its less then 12 sec left?

[fleet anchor]

@marble hemlock @primal gazelle So I have some more scientific observations for these types of prio rotation approaches for Assassination. Will post the results tonight when I get home.

[proven wasp]

So, worth switching to zandalari trolls?

[fleet anchor]

Basically the short version is that SoB is indeed quite strong for prio Damage even limited to 4 targets. Blightborne is really beastly as well. TtK is good but slightly behind, but likely close enough it doesn’t matter too much.

Really the biggest observation is the rotation change itself, regardless of any traits at all.

Shifting to use Envenom when TB is up as long as Rupture is ticking on the main target (avoiding early refreshing during pandemic) is a rather large prio gain and mostly dps neutral overall. (Very slight loss, not worth worrying about.)

Obviously making an AoE vs Prio trade there but the math checks out on it.

That change alone along with capping Ruptures at 4 is the biggest prio gain, even with zero TtK traits.

[lone junco]

any rotational changes due to 3Eb itself?

like overcapping during EB or Env

[fleet anchor]

Wasn’t really looking at AoE damage at all so was excluding that for the time being. Will look at more big picture combo stuff later.

[marble hemlock]

feel free to ping when youre home so i can have a look at it myself, and thanks for putting in the time/effort to do this 😉

[lone junco]

I wont feel so bad about 1 scent. but still limp on the EB front.

[fleet anchor]

But for example on a 6 enemy pull prio Envenom and capping Ruptures brings the prio Damage from 14.7k to 17.6k

With zero traits

So the rotation change itself is rather significant as long as you have enough Targets to get CP quickly.

At 3T it makes no real difference since there are fewer opportunities

Blightborne is really strong though lol

[lone junco]

once we can have 9 dps traits, ill make sure to add it in

/jokes

[fleet anchor]

So anyway from zero traits to rotation change to change plus 2x TtK

Goes from

14.7 to 17.6 to 18.7

So the rotation change itself is really the most impactful thing

[lone junco]

use Envenom when TB is up as long as Rupture is ticking on the main target and capping Ruptures at 4

[fleet anchor]

With 4 Rupture cap 2x SoB is 19.9 fwiw

BBI is 19.6

But can’t really get 2x anyway

There may be some more refined APL logic also

That’s basically just what I threw together to test and had some obvious gains

[sturdy python]

These numbers are the DPS on the priority target?

[fleet anchor]

Yes

[sturdy python]

K ty

[fleet anchor]

Outlaw with 1x Keep and 1x Deadshot is 21k prio Damage though 🤣

[sturdy python]

Wow

[fleet anchor]

Fully stacked Keep really pumps on the main target

[marble hemlock]

we dont discuss this "spec" in here tho

[desert jungle]

I’m sorry but what was the change again? I looked at wowhead and don’t see anything besides the vigor change

[fleet anchor]

Hah. Was just for a benchmark.

[lone junco]

keep is the RTB trait?

[fleet anchor]

Also Sub Prio Damage with 6T is hilarious

[sturdy python]

Blade flurry

[fleet anchor]

It’s like 40k

lol

[marble hemlock]

how does it look on bigger pulls, i.e. 8-10 mobs?

[lone junco]

pump it up

[fleet anchor]

Sub Prio target is still fairly insane

[lone junco]

(sub caps juice at 6cps right)

does sub even have a raw AoE.

[marble hemlock]

is that with NS or SF?

[fleet anchor]

Anyway I will send over the full results tonight. On mobile atm.

SF I believe

[sturdy python]

Sub has secret technique noobe, not much of an aoe

Consistent aoe*

[marble hemlock]

sub multidots NB same as we do rupture

between SHD charges

[sturdy python]

I read raw as an actual aoe ability

But if an assumption, oops

[surreal torrent]

Sub does not multidot for prio damage

[sturdy python]

Right, seli was replying to “raw aoe”

[fleet anchor]

Mystler has built in a prio rotation flag

I may do something similar for Assassination based on this logic above

[lone junco]

outside of zul, i havent used tornado successfully.

[fleet anchor]

If I can refine it a little bit

[fading harness]

hey everyone, have a quick question on energy pooling and toxic blade. So there are some rogues from method that will toxic blade even at 5cp just to get their next two envenoms buffed. However, that generates wasted cp and I was wondering if it's reasonable to do it or not. The same thing applies with energy pooling. I see rogues that pool energy which is i think the right thing to do, but then there are other rogues who don't and nut out way more damage. So is energy pooling bad or is burning all your energy as soon as possible just better?

[vestal wren]

prio rotation for sub is not exclusive to tornado

[strange python]

2v2 as mage rogue against healers, wound or deadly?

[sturdy python]

#pvp best bet

[golden relic]

pool energy and its ok to TB at 5 CP

short answer

[fading harness]

hmm. thanks for the response!

probably will test it out later as well

[small crypt]

Bloodmallet's secondary distirbution says. that mastery has a higher prio than crit. Does that mean the current stat prio is haste>mastery>crit, ?

[fleet whale]

stat prio depends on what gear you have, so you have to sim yourself

[eternal salmon]

kimbul vs paku loa for zandalari troll for best dps?

[vestal wren]

will know once we have sims

[gray saddle]

You boys run crimson tempest in m+?

Doing decent size pulls in +9-11 keys

Using 3EB and 1Ss

[pulsar goblet]

Most people are taking poison bomb

[gray saddle]

Mmmk sim says CT better on paper. But pb probably easier in practice to not messs up

[pulsar goblet]

I think overall CT will do more damage but I'm guessing people are taking bomb since CT is worthless on bosses

[autumn sonnet]

I just read a discussion on MMO-Champion and they said that you should go Vendetta > TB > Mut > Env > Mut in opener with MA and 3xDD. Makes sense to me, since Mut does a ton more damage than TB with 3xDD. Is there any merit to this?

[dark crag]

I read all kind of different things.
Vend vanish tb mut env
Vend tb mut vanish env mut env
And now yours

[autumn sonnet]

I read "Vend tb mut vanish env mut env" as well. Problem with that one is you might get unlucky and sit at 3 CP and have to use one mroe Mut

[dark crag]

Exactly, but then it is something like you mentioned

Dd procs are not crit dependant

[autumn sonnet]

yeah

[heavy skiff]

I think it depends on tb

If ur tb crits and u have 2 cp

Then i go mut vanish env mut env

If i only get 1 cp from tb i go vanish mut env mut

[onyx rock]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rMQQkcB3D554TANLU1oCo7

[autumn sonnet]

so you never use TB after vanish? Makes sense. Just kinda confused about the pinned guide

[onyx rock]

monkaS

[heavy skiff]

Yea i never use tb after vanish

3xdd mut just does more damage like u said

[plush light]

any clue what SS is looking like with changes?

[dark crag]

What changes?

[plush light]

Oof, I'm dumb. I saw the other day that SS had a tweak. Guess they removed it.

[sturdy python]

I think there was another tooltip change on it that got removed again

No real balance changes for rogue

[plush light]

Yeah, it said that was deling extra damage every X second, something like that.

[dark crag]

What does the assa apl do with vend vanish and tb?

[plush light]

Was hoping it'd be worthwhile for ST again.

[sturdy python]

Believe in the opener it Vend>Vanish>TB

After that it changes though, would have to look at it again

[dark crag]

I do vend tb vanish env mut env when i am high on crit

Mekka trinket and such

Else i go with the safe version of vanish tb env mut

[autumn sonnet]

how is that "safe"?

why not vanish mut env mut

mut with 3x DD is way more damage than TB

[sturdy python]

vanish>tb was just found to be more consistent

but mut without envenom buff is limp

This all likely depends on traits and stats too though

[autumn sonnet]

it really isn't with 3xDD

[sturdy python]

It is because the chances of you proccing DD without envenom buff is super iffy

[dark crag]

Dd is extra layer of rng, it procs or doesn't proc

[hollow stone]

I think you need to reread dd, krytos

Tawney is 100% correct

[rocky ruin]

isnt it more safer Garrote-Multi-RP-Multi-Vendetta-Vanish-TB-Envenom-Multi-Envenom

[hollow stone]

Yes

[dark crag]

Thats the all in opener

[hollow stone]

But tb before vanish CAN net the most

[rocky ruin]

well Opener dont have a Multi after Rupture

[sturdy python]

The wowhead opener doesnt, youre correct

[dark crag]

Vendetta is 20 sec

[sturdy python]

RH does, probably small differences

[hollow stone]

G m r m vend tb van env m env is the highest potential burst

[lone junco]

@autumn sonnet an mut without Env up is a dirty gamble when you are leaning on DD.

[hollow stone]

Van tb env m is safer

[autumn sonnet]

I guess best case scenario would be vendetta > TB (crit) > muti > vanish > envenom > mut > envenom

[sturdy python]

Most people mut before vend but wowhead has g>mut>rup>vend>vanish>tb

[autumn sonnet]

why would you use mutilate first?

[rocky ruin]

you going in vanish-tb-envenom-multi-envenom but you can mostly only get 1 envenom in the tb window

[autumn sonnet]

you loose out on the damage buff from vendetta

[hollow stone]

But you gain a gcd in vend later

[dark crag]

You mean ma

[autumn sonnet]

how do you gain a GCD? vendetta is always 20 sec. It does not matter if you cast Mut before vendetta or after

[potent stone]

How good is the Engi Helm for assa?

[dark crag]

It's ok

[rocky ruin]

Well you cast it before you get after Mut-Vendetta-Vanish-TB-Envenom (4-5CP)- Mut-Envenom

you get always 2 Envenom in the tb window

if you dont get a lucky crit with TB

[dark crag]

2 env in tb is minimum

[rocky ruin]

yea but TB crit is not always given

[hollow stone]

alrighty, lemme break it down for you: G (1cp), m (3-5cp), r, m (2-4cp), VEND, tb (3-5 cp; if 3, M again) VANISH env (at 4-5cp), m (2-4cp), env OR m (env if 4cp, m if <4cp), then normal rotation. If you vend 1 gcd sooner in the opener, your vend ends 1 gcd sooner as well so the only way that this ends up being worse is if you lose 1sec on your last vend at the end of the fight (negligible and who cares, that means it's dead)

[opal stream]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[rocky ruin]

Mut gives always 2-4

and not 3-5 @hollow stone

[autumn sonnet]

@hollow stone I mean, that's what I'm saying. You don't gain a GCD unless the fight will only laste for 19 sec of the 20 sec Vendetta window if you cast Vendetta one GCD later

[dark crag]

It's 2, 3 or 4

[visual quartz]

3-5 is cause he ahs one from garrtoe already

[hollow stone]

that's 3-5 after you have the g (worth 1 already on there)

yeah, you shift the gcd 1 sec

which means nothing

[autumn sonnet]

exactly

[sturdy python]

vend>mut or mut>vend is literally swapping 2 gcd

it menas nothing

[drifting cloud]

mmochamp theorycrafters know best

[sturdy python]

and youll get that mut inside vendetta at the end of vend anyway

[autumn sonnet]

@hollow stone ohhh I get it now. I misunderstood you. Did not take note of that emote 😄

@sturdy python that's what we're saying

[bleak spoke]

Honestly I think high cp to start vend might be a bit better cuz if you finish env you’ll clip ep and then have higher dd chances in that set of mutilates

[dark crag]

Is there even another spec that can do the same in these kind of different manners?

[bleak spoke]

But it’s so negligible

[sturdy python]

frost opener hardly matters in order as long as you get CDs out

[bleak spoke]

Barely worth thinking about

The other thing I’ve considered playing ma is waiting till you’ve built 5 cp by random chance before the vanish

[lone junco]

carrying in Env is real

env mut env

[bleak spoke]

So vanishing on any of the first three being valid

[lone junco]

that way your DD will hit

[bleak spoke]

Yeh I think env mutis env has to be more accurate

[dark crag]

Will probably hit

[bleak spoke]

Than the Tb

[autumn sonnet]

but then you need to get a TB crit?

or do you mutilate 2x after TB

if mut does not crit

[bleak spoke]

No

Like muti after rupture

If literally no crits then fuck you I guess

[hollow stone]

I put that example in there

[lone junco]

env tb mut . bleh

[hollow stone]

if neither TB nor m crits

[autumn sonnet]

ahh

[dark crag]

Now i am even more confused what i will do

[lone junco]

carrying in cps is unpredictable, but i would do it in legion all the time with shoulders

but that was for the bombs anyway

[rocky ruin]

@hollow stone shouldnt you example G,M,RP,M,VEN,VA,TB,ENV,M,ENV go like this but yours is G,M,RP,M,VEN,TB,M,VA,TB,ENV,M,ENV

[hollow stone]

the one you put, is the safer choice but the one I put CAN net the most dmg

with a bit of luck

and higher crit

the difference is not much in the grand scheme of things so if you want the more consistent opener, do the one you said

[opal minnow]

pick one that feels better for you imo. the damage difference won't be significant over a large number of pulls

or if you're having a hard time figuring it out, just play subt.

[lone junco]

if you track your crit, and have a bbi or crit proc that puts you over 75% crit vanish env mut env

cause thats the big brain play

[autumn sonnet]

G,M,RP,VEN,M,TB,M,VA,TB,ENV,M,ENV is basically the same though, no? But your DPS spike should be higher, since the second mut is in VD window

[rocky ruin]

Does anyone just test the 2 openers?

[hollow stone]

using vend then, idk if you will energy cap @autumn sonnet

[autumn sonnet]

ahh yes, could be a problem

[dark crag]

It comes down to your crit and the risk you want to take

[scenic nacelle]

any info on how Zand troll racials compare to other horde races?

[dark crag]

Assa needs someone like fuu that is active here and can alter the apl

[hollow stone]

yeah, people test them @rocky ruin and if you have suggestions, post them in #tc-research

fuu's always active in here

I'm actually pretty sure the big brains are talking about implementing zand racials as we speak

[rocky ruin]

i was just overflying there and yes its not implemented but i think tomorrow or so

[round harbor]

@hollow stone I'm talking to myself

[ancient path]

anyone know if raidbots apl is broken for mekkatorque trinket? it doesnt use the trinket at all in my sim, is it better then sim tells me?

[civic palm]

I imagine the SIM assumes a specific uptime for the trinket without having to "use" the trinket.

eg.

[ancient path]

ah makes sense

[cobalt gyro]

Vigor: Engaged

[safe flame]

Question, do you think this SIM makes sense considering my trinket options? I keep seeing (Bloodmallet) that Plumage + Galecaller are the two BIS trinkets, however it's saying a 395 Dead-eye sims higher?

[civic palm]

vigor_engaged_6

[safe flame]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7gS9YFAwSwoBB8GUcoCayY

[civic palm]

Considering raid encounters are sparsely ever represented well by a simulation, some simple experimentation on your part should be able to give you an accurate answer.

Especially considering you're playing Assassination and should be getting near the same DPS every pull unless you get screwed by mechanics.

[cobalt gyro]

not making an apl script for each encounter you want to sim

[warm harbor]

@civic palm with the MA build becoming more popular each day the dmg from pull to pull varies hugely now

[safe flame]

I figured as much, but didn't know if the raw agility on the 415 Kul Tirans Cannonball made it far superior

[civic palm]

Huge isn't what I would call that.

[rustic ether]

well @civic palm, size doesnt matter, its huge to me ❤

[civic palm]

:3

[bitter jackal]

Does a 415 Doom's howl exist? If not why even list it on BM

[civic palm]

It can TF like anything else.

[bitter jackal]

I thought Azerite couldn't titanforge?

[rustic ether]

i cant tell if thats a joke or not

[civic palm]

Doom's Howl?

o _O

[bitter jackal]

The vest

Sorry

SHould have been more clear.

[rustic ether]

wait

then what is your original question LOL

[civic palm]

Then no it cannot, of course.

and what is on the list for simming doesn't really matter as they are using an item for the traits and that trait combination works regardless of what item is actually used as they can be forced to be w/e the simmer wants.

[coral tartan]

!opulence

!gem

erm, what gem should I take as sin? Opal?

[civic palm]

Opal if you do not need a Ruby carrier.

[ornate herald]

does anyone know how the zandalari racial compares to the other races?

like is it huge?

[rustic ether]

why would it be huge

theyre arent THAT bad at balancing

[civic palm]

atm no race is worth changing to

[rustic ether]

as it should be

i honestly think they should remove racials all together 😒

and thats coming form a nelf rogue lol

[ornate herald]

i mean 4% crit sounds pretty huge

but it depends on how often its up

[rustic ether]

it has a 1 minute rpm i believe which isnt worth much

[ornate herald]

ah ok

[civic palm]

@ a 25% uptime it's just as good as NE passive.

[rustic ether]

the real question is how strong the kul tiran ability will be

you can yeet a motherfucker like 15 yards

i wonder if youd be able to use that for ML jockey manipulations

[wooden fog]

when is the best place to us cloak in mythic king?

[dapper forge]

To clear frog pools before the spread

With sprint

[warm harbor]

nah be a real dps and pop it just before flame circles come out, fuck helping the range players

[fleet whale]

so assassination is a slow paced spec... yet when i check logs on our M champions kill, i'm like third in total casts?

oh now i see, mutilate counts as two casts

[cobalt gyro]

literally just made a full crit/vers set on PTR to try ttk

this build is fun

[woven prairie]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/krvVaTzbyjDNd8Mq/ I think my biggest issue is misusing TB and my opener might be off

[jaunty crystal]

yea in that mythic champion kill you miss out on multiple TBs

also since you're running SS + subterfuge, in that fight you want to open with three garrotes

garrote two adds then the boss

[strange python]

depends on if you are damaging the adds or not

but even pure singletarget you want to not only do one

[jaunty crystal]

Yea. If you want some help with openers Kerbs there's a bunch here with different talent/trait options http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[thick galleon]

I can't find any post about changes for assa rogue in 8.1.5 or aren't we getting anything?

I Should let the first garotte after steath to run out on target right?

[strange python]

Depends on if you play subterfuge or not

If you play master assassin it doesnt matter, if you play subterfuge you want to refresh right as it runs out

to have maximum subterfuge uptime

(with shrouded suffocation)

[real bay]

SS doesn't change how it plays, just punishes you more if you overwrite it early

always let emp garrote drop unless you are gonna vanish and refresh it , below 5.4s

[strange python]

Kinda what I meant but didn't word properly

[worldly iron]

don't you wanna let it drop off even if you're gonna vanish? since you'll garrote twice

[woven prairie]

how do i setup tb? and do i save spending combo points for tb window?

[strange python]

You dont want to cap energy and stuff just to save for it

but if you have like 3 cp you can save them and wait for example

[woven prairie]

also oyu never want to use tb or refresh garr with 4 or more cps yea?

[quasi pewter]

why not?

[worldly iron]

garrote only gives one cp, so that's fine if you're at 4. you can even use tb at 5 cp

[strange python]

Garotte refresh doesnt do to much since it always gives 1 cp

but tb can crit and give 2

[woven prairie]

o garr doesnt give 2 if crit?

[strange python]

garotte cant crit

[woven prairie]

i guess theres no dmg right away

[strange python]

it only applies the dot

doesnt do initial dmg

[worldly iron]

I've heard about tb being fine even at 5 from people like Dratnos

[strange python]

It is fine, but you can avoid it most of the time

[worldly iron]

of course, but if you crit with mutilate at 2cp into 5cp

you can just go ahead and tb

[strange python]

You can also just toxic blade and then see if you are at 3 or 4

at 4 you can just finish

at 3 you can use another mutilate

which is totally fine if you have double dose

which most people have

[quasi pewter]

you press tb when it comes off cd no matter what

if ur at 5 cp

press tb

[worldly iron]

if you're about to cap energy at 2cp while tb is about to come off cd, you do end up with 5cp sometimes

sure, you can always work around most things, but it happens

[strange python]

Yeah, you can play around it but its no big deal if you have to tb at 5

[woven prairie]

also you always let empowered garrote fall unless you reset with vanish right?

[strange python]

doesnt change much

You dont reset it with vanish

You use the vanish right when it runs out to put a new full duration one on

with subterfuge

[woven prairie]

o does it not carry over the remaining durration? i kinda assumed thats why you reapply at certain times

[strange python]

You have a 5.4 second window where it carries over

but you only have a set duration with subterfuge

for example

[woven prairie]

ohhhhh i see

[strange python]

If you open you use garotte -> rupture -> garotte

You have 18 seconds then with the second garotte it gets refreshed to 23.4 seconds

so you have about 25 seconds overall duration of garotte

with subterfuge

now if you vanish at lets say 4 seconds left, then you have another 25 seconds if you play it the same

but you lose the 4 seconds from before

so its only about 46 seconds total

but if you do the same right when it falls off

you have 50 seconds

because of the way pandemic works

It only lets you refresh to duration + 30% of the total duration

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[woven prairie]

so with vanish would you do the same opener? garr rup garr

[worldly iron]

I usually do garrote > envenom > garrote, since I usually already have a rupture ticking and you don't want to refresh it too early with 3cp

[real bay]

yeah a good way imo is vanish at 2 cps so you env between g's

depends where your rup is at

[round harbor]

Also if your energy starved you can just garrote pause garrote

Not as ideal but sometimes it be that way

[real bay]

yep

[worldly iron]

deffo

[vast forum]

No difference

Just never overwrite empowered bleeds

[quick ice]

yes

[strange python]

I didn't get to try it out last night, but cloak can soak frog slimes on rastakhan?

Touching on a previous comment

[quick ice]

yes

[worldly iron]

the first puddles will remain

[quick ice]

to do all 5 I think you have to sprint? but I just use it in case

[strange python]

Does it clear em from the field?

[worldly iron]

yeah

[quick ice]

1st puddle stays, but you can stop extras from spawning

[strange python]

Ok cool. So first 5 stay but the ones after can be cleared

[worldly iron]

the other puddles won't appear if you soak toadies

[quick ice]

its not so much clearing as "you hit the toad and they stop jumping"

[strange python]

Oh snap so you can soak the frogs themselves huh?

[mystic charm]

How much of a detriment is TC for jaina prog? Not sure if I wanna run 2xTC+1NP, or just be safe and play 3xNP+3xDD.

The former simming the highest for me

[quick ice]

how close?

[mystic charm]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qamPyrLGkfy6UGSYTdJJi7

However that sim is with 100% uptime on TC

this sim i put uptime to 80%

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vuspC9ikPst89sGt73vQUq

[quick ice]

I don't think there's a setup without at least 1x TC in these?

[mystic charm]

Y just noticed, let me redo one with 3x np

[sand whale]

you'll spend a lot of time in p1 and p2 for prog, play whatever you want, assess dmg but I removed TC since it does actually make it a bit hairy

[mystic charm]

Hmm, i see

[sand whale]

if you guys want to see more p2, play the higher DPS build little things help, we've had pretty shit time with healers lately so you really notice the rot sub 20% at high stacks during intermission and generally when we're on high stacks

[strange python]

@hollow wraith Subterfuge snapshots, its one of the only few spells that still do that

so you want to let that run out because it gets overwritten

[mystic charm]

Aight, thanks dude.

[strange python]

other than hat, it is new duration + old duration left up to 30% yes.

e.g if you refresh garotte with 2 seconds left it will last 20 seconds

on the other hand, if you refresh garotte with 8 seconds left it will still only last 23.4 seconds

[pseudo shore]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[cobalt gyro]

finished a shrine 15 at 37k :(

[covert crag]

[cobalt gyro]

was holding 40k for most of it

[strange python]

do you wanna use ur vanish with vendetta or does it matter ?

for st

[spice surge]

yes you use it with vendetta

[real bay]

you want your buffed garrote to line up with vendetta and with MA also

[cobalt gyro]

if they're not aligned because of, say, your opener on the boss

just hold vend so they line up

[slate sedge]

Hey friends. Can anyone look at my guild's logs (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TcwPz1DyXpMmk2f8#fight=7) And see what I am doing wrong (Xilit) compared to the other rogues in my guild?

[strange python]

aight cheers

[crystal barn]

hey i know i'm a little late to the party on this one but - does feint reduce quaking damage?

[spark oyster]

No it doesn't

[real bay]

quite sure it doesn't

only with elusiveness

[spark oyster]

^

[heavy skiff]

But it reduces damage from another person right?

[copper kestrel]

Are there any fights I should consider not playing Assassination?

[cosmic pier]

oppulence to pad on adds

[worldly iron]

and be stuck with ruby

[crystal barn]

ty guys ❤

[austere mauve]

@copper kestrel as u can see here https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/21/#class=Rogue
Outlaw does better on almost 7 bosses

everytime u can bladef

it makes it better

[ripe nimbus]

Better is relative

They are better at padding

[austere mauve]

i know, but a boss fight isnt only killing 1 target

[tiny arrow]

You mean cheesing the fuck out of adds that don't need that much focus?

[austere mauve]

@tiny arrow indeed

[arctic harness]

Whats the opinion on the Mekkatorque trinket for M+? Got a 415 one with a socket. Other trinkets are 410 dice and plumage

[dark crag]

Outside the annoying beeps and boops, the mekka trinket is solid crit

[worldly iron]

playing with sound

[ripe nimbus]

Playing at all

[copper kestrel]

I don't know much about outlaw, but isn't it pretty RNG? Which would make it have some of the top (and some of the worst) parses. Maybe I over-estimate the RNG over the course of a 4-8min fight

(Padding aside)

[real bay]

there's always someone who gets 5 rolls

[strange python]

RTB rng barely affects u

[ripe nimbus]

It has RNG yes. Its not very good at short fights unless u get super lucky on ur first couple rolls. But it evens out over a long fight so its not so bad.. tho this is the sin channel so ill stop talkin bout outlaw before richard spanks me

[azure bridge]

are there any zandalari troll sims yet?

[strange python]

i think they will be available only after the patch goes live

[vivid bone]

https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination?data_view=races

you can check yourself

[sterile ocean]

Dosent even show em yet

[solid nova]

Herodamage will have them as soon as its available

Assume #tc-updates will post when that's the case

[copper kestrel]

Huh, gnomes are on top. Is that new?
I thought Night Elves were yesterday when I asked

[vivid bone]

shows how irrelevant it is

just pick your favorite race

[austere mauve]

+1

[worldly iron]

brb rerolling gnome

gnomes are the best assassins anyways, they don't even need stealth to not be seen

[verbal mantle]

they're also ugly af

[worldly iron]

cute little 60 year old men

[lament dove]

so nobody looks at them, the perfect camouflage

[vast forum]

Nelf too valuable to reroll from

[worldly iron]

I'd love to play a nelf for assassination but I just like humans too much

[river zinc]

This has probably been answered, but is there definitive sims for the Zandalari yet?

[river zinc]

Thank you!

[verbal mantle]

😄

[bronze kelp]

its always crit 😃

on EB and TTk mix even more on crit

[brisk forge]

Depends on weeks, more haste on tyr and lower haste on fort 😏

[real bay]

haste is last for m+ you rly don't need

[bronze kelp]

and versa is also not a bad stat

[real bay]

yeah tyr

but mostly useless for trash

[brisk forge]

But haste isnt top

[chrome current]

for 3rb/3ss pure aoe i would say crit>>mastery>versa>haste

[bronze kelp]

if you play a 3 ttk build crit is top, haste 2nd

[hollow stone]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

[bronze kelp]

im running on tyra weeks 1700 crit and 1100 haste

about 500 mastery and 250 versa atm

[brisk forge]

Ofc

[bronze kelp]

on fort less haste, but im still around 8% on fort weeks

[real bay]

haste literally useless for trash you have unlimited energy or nearly

[bronze kelp]

got very much haste/crit gear so cant go under 8% ^^

[real bay]

that's about as low as I can get with 33% crit

[sturdy python]

Haste still does increase damage of dots, it’s not worthless

Will find more benefit in places like kr of course

[real bay]

so does crit and versa

and mast

[sturdy python]

Obviously, saying haste is worthless isn’t true though

[chrome current]

haste is for st

[brisk forge]

On fort its bascisally shit stat XD

[chrome current]

is worth using ct when you have x 3 eb?

[lament dove]

try HB with 3xEB

I'm running HB with 2xEB, it's better than the 1,5% dmg of PB...

[haughty verge]

with 20 stacks, are you using it on st?

[lament dove]

yes

if I don't forget^^

it usually does more dmg than PB on ST as well

[lofty jackal]

Hi guys, what is the best trait combination at the moment in 8.1? Im currently 2x Shrouded 2x Nothing Personal 1 Scent of blood and 1 Treacherous covenant

[ripe nimbus]

The ones that sim the highest for you

[haughty lily]

trait combination for what type of encounter? raid, M+. pvp?

[lofty jackal]

Raiding generally

[heavy skiff]

The best setup now is 3x dd and atleast 1 Np

MA talented

But u can also play with ss and subt

Its not a big dps dif

[verbal mantle]

Best traits stacking for ST (Master Assassin) https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination?data_view=azerite_traits&type=trait_stacking&tier=3

[heavy skiff]

So play what u prefere

[desert vault]

Is today the patch for the new raid or something?

[dark crag]

No

[ripe nimbus]

No

[desert vault]

Oh, just the class changes and stuff?

[dark crag]

Yes

[vestal wren]

it is the patch for the new raid

the raid is just not released with the patch

[red plaza]

also new allied races

[vestal wren]

well, still no zandalari sims :/

[placid egret]

://

[twin kite]

was looking for the same 😦

[sage ice]

what settings are you using for raidbots m+?

[night vale]

Dungeonslice

It’s one of the presets in the drop down

[sage ice]

thank you

[lament adder]

Is there a best way to SIM for say something specific like Sin spec doing Shrine ?

[warm geode]

get ur m+ group, analise how is the pool the u do, put them on sim and use 😃

mass pull, high downtime between pulls, one by one etc.... and sim for dat

[pearl widget]

Sim bots say I should sustain 17k but I can only sustain 15k w/ reapply bleeds should I focus more on my timer up on EP? I burst 32k but bust fall over time of course...

[warm geode]

u should correct what sim bots say, "sim bots says if i play perfect i should be doing on avg 17k"

and this is full tunel dps without movement

[pearl widget]

So your saying is I need to replace my arms with robotic arms and try to be more like Cyborg! @warm geode genius! I would have never thought of that...

[warm geode]

saying the this is the optimal sim, and u should be proud if dont make alot mistakes compared to apl

[pearl widget]

Nah I want to be more like my idol cyborg the ultimate gamer

[warm geode]

uk kill timer and mecanics is a big factor for dps at the end? so, if uk u r doing things right u r g2g

dont be to hard on yourself

[pearl widget]

UK?

[warm geode]

you know

[pearl widget]

Aye

[warm geode]

im dare to say, 90% is what guide says 5% boss kill time /mecanics and 5% lucky for parse

[dark crag]

You can do multiple short sims for different stuff, like trashpull with/without cds, 2 to 3 min boss pulls.
In the end you make a median out of all results

It requires work or you just use dungeonslice

[bold hearth]

anyone done any feelycraft on the zandalari racials since the sims probably won't be ready for raid

[lapis lantern]

Hey guys, i just came back from a long pause - is outlaw top tier for m+ or is assa viable too?

[spice surge]

Both are very good, assa is harder to play properly though

[sage ice]

whats better in m+? 3x EB 2x SS 1x SoB or 3x SS 2x EB 1x TTK

[spice surge]

The first one will do more aoe damage, the second one will do more specific target damage 🤷

[warm geode]

@sage ice ppl r saying 3eb 1ss 2ttk

im not sure but, around 35%crit 40% mast rest dump on vers

[halcyon tulip]

i want to run 3 eb 3 ss

[ripe nimbus]

I wonder if the zandalari racial bleed loa will scale with our mastery i assume not but maybe i think undead racial scales with unholy dk so maybe

[halcyon tulip]

but not lucky with azerite

[crude plinth]

I was thinking about that too, for the racial bleed

I think it should scale, cause the mastery say OUR bleed

[spice surge]

99% sure it wont

[warm geode]

@halcyon tulip im can run 3ss 2eb 1tk, is pretty decent, i want the 3eb 2ttk and 1ss

but, azerite chest lucky is not on my side

[spice surge]

Because most things nowadays are whitelisted, ie only work with the things they are intended to work with

since no other trinket/effect scales of our mastery, i doubt this will

[crude plinth]

pretty sure too

[halcyon tulip]

3 eb is a must imo, esp for reaping

[ripe nimbus]

Im almost certain undead racial scales with unholy dk mastery

So not sure why this would be different

[crude plinth]

It'll be too strong, we'll get a free third dot

[warm geode]

3 eb 3ttk MA for meme pogs

[mint gust]

Question about Assassination Rogue....overall...is vendetta something we hit when it's up or do i try to line it up with Exangiuate? Sorry to be so noobish....thanks for any insight.

[winter moss]

does this seem normal

[vestal wren]

i assume its same as zandalari

😉

[winter moss]

actually idk, was messing around with races

wasnt even pointing to kultiran, more to VE