imagine
#assassination
civic palm
Outside of this season though, who knows.
bleak spoke
ugh
i hate that tho
sub is prio damage in my head
i wouldnt' want EB
i'd want TTK except for evis
bleak spoke
yeah run replicating and sometimes you get a CP refund sometimes everything you're fighting somehow has a dot on it and sometimes nothing happens
fk yeah bud
i've absorbed too much of angry scath
i consider myself an assa rogue nowadays anyway tbh
full harbor
is it worth losing the combo points from Toxic Blade to get out envenmon after rather than wasting it before
candid jasper
Running 20% haste right now but it feels awful, sims are still saying mastery is roughly the same as haste atm
what are people typically sitting at?
bleak spoke
Just under 20 in raid
cinder ridge
I’m sitting at 30 Crit, 22 haste and 24 mastery. Now my sims are saying mastery > Crit> haste
hollow stone
civic palm
lol
cobalt gyro
busted trait
tepid ridge
strange python
so about to try and sim this 2ss/2ttk/eb setup, should i be doing dungeon slice?
naive cypress
Sim it?
short token
how do you sim m+?
i didn't know there was an option tbh thought i could only sim bosses
naive cypress
Dungeon Slice
Go to Simulation Options on Raidbots and change from Patchwerk to Dungeon Slice
Its a pretty ok indicator
bold trail
mmmm is the small 15 seconds of add time worth the trait?
cobalt gyro
it was my top damage lmao
naive cypress
Im guessing BloodMallets sims for Hectic add cleave cant really be used very representative for m+ ?
bold trail
You might use 1 EB for opulence. But you'll get more from using a ST focus build. CT being the only aoe thing you focus on.
Took a quick look at the logs. EB doesnt really show up.
Theres one triple eb appearance at like 40k. Triple DD topping at 80k. But that sounds like a pad run
naive cypress
Is it possible to get a 415 Azerite piece with the garrote trait?
I can't seem to find any
cobalt gyro
i have one
naive cypress
What is it called?
naive cypress
All of them rly
short token
is it? i was just told in here TO use it
cobalt gyro
it's better than nothing
idle vigil
Really isn’t
Shows you pulling mobs of 3 and then on bosses for other 50%
Only thing it would a accurately show would be a KR on tyrannical week
naive cypress
Thanks @short token I was using sims as trait source, stupid
grave elk
so does master assassin build just go really high in burst and u just get dps burst when CDs come back up? cuz it feels so energy starved and whatever dps till i get 2nd round of burst
sturdy python
Assassination is always energy starved in single target, MA or not
cobalt gyro
ya you need to pool for TB windows regardless
grave elk
MA feels like 30x worse then running SS and subter
flint jetty
You wouldn't be getting any more or less energy with MA vs Subt SS or not. The only thing that could help is a NP trait but that only effects Vendetta windows
prisma wind
2 ttk, 2 ss, 2 eb
huzzah?
Forgoing scent for blood is kinda sad to me, I sort of liked spamming ruptures
lethal python
I recently switched to master assassin and I saw in the guide that you toxic blade from vanish, will that be from every vanish or just during the opener?
real bay
that is the more consistent way for MA
naive cypress
!Azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
cobalt gyro
what traits u runnin
rapid onyx
OOF
pulsar goblet
triple eb triple ss
cobalt gyro
interestin
naive cypress
How much energy ish do you tend do pool before toxic blade?
random dragon
130
cosmic pier
@pulsar goblet what lvl100 talent?
pulsar goblet
pb
bleak spoke
Triple eb triple ss should do more overall than the ttk build yeh
I’m willing to bet anything though if you pull 35k with toxic funnel that the dungeons goes faster tho
But not underrot
I think with over 4 targets in a pack that have equal hp SS exsang comes out better
warm geode
since we r on the subject
too much or good enought?
for the build
2min
holding this with PB
hiddeon blades prob more like 65k
cobalt gyro
i don't know if HB would add 20k to that lmao
sacred venture
Hi Guys, quick question regarding vanish and vendetta
do you usually wait for your second vanish to line up with vendetta? meaning, do you postpone your second vendetta ca. 20 sec until vanish is ready again?
mental fiber
yes
mental fiber
nope
thick galleon
does raidbots sim take in account traits selected on an azerite gear?
vestal wren
yes
if you use topgear you can select multiple traits too (so it sims trait combinations)
thick galleon
aha i have the shield on all 3
decided to put liying and wait on one
it still says shield is better
dark crag
Does it even consider defensive traits?
Shield is the top def trait, but liw is nice for movement
bleak spoke
@warm geode would probably consider more vers over mastery if playing hb
Also completely stacked enemies is feelsgoodman for pb
scarlet wing
master assasin with 3dd and 3 np feels so good. holy shit
hoary crown
Is the engineering goggles good for ass a ?
rustic onyx
hello i was looking at the trait of some of the top assa rogue in m+ and noticed a lot of them stacked twisted knife with some eb and sf . any particular reason why ?
is it to blast a mob in aoe maybe like sub used to
hoary crown
And how about the goggles ;PP??
rustic onyx
i think galecaller only sim good with exs ?
safe flame
exs?
rustic onyx
exsanguinate
warm geode
@bleak spoke yeah, was doing with dat mindset
the thing now is how much is worth to drop mastery for bosses over versa for aoe
ML 12 with some what decent group for testing, still need the third EB
full pagoda
I've asked this but I forgot, what is the So-so good % of keeping elaborate's planning uptime?
Also, one more question, how can I see in a log which gem a person has taken on Opulence?
sturdy python
Should be able to see gems on the debuff panel
safe flame
Is simming the be all and end all? How does a 395 Dead-Eye Spyglass sim better than a 410 Galecallers Boon? According to multiple websites it's far superior..
full pagoda
@sturdy python Thanks, any idea about the EP uptime? xD
safe flame
My three tinket choices are 410 Galecaller, 410 Plumage + 395 Dead-Eye Spy glass. Simming says Spyglass and Plumage are 1% better...
eager haven
2 on use trinkets isn’t ideal, that’s why
safe flame
Even if the agility is much higher on the on use?
eager haven
Yeah
sturdy python
Don’t think anyone really has a good number. Just don’t cap energy, use finishers properly and don’t spam and it should turn out fine with EP
Could look at some higher parses for an idea maybe
full pagoda
Don't spam it? What's considered spamming? Except on opener to not energy cap I should try to magimise the 5 seconds before I use it a finisher again?
sonic bridge
Spamming is
using finisher asap
you should always clip
Use finisher ideally .1 sec before EP falls of
sturdy python
Opener you usually need to spam because of energy
Same with Tb windows
Outside of that, as long as you’re not capping energy, you aren’t losing dps by not hitting a button
full pagoda
yeah I was gonna ask about TB windows as well cos it's supposed to go as many envenoms as possible
sturdy python
Yeah that’s different
full pagoda
Yeah xD
sonic bridge
and I think u can hold the last envenom for a bit before tb falls off
sturdy python
I think the new wowhead guide has something on allowing yourself to sit at 80% energy often
sonic bridge
so u pool a little bit of energy
sturdy python
So you can take advantage of Tb as it comes up
sonic bridge
aren't there like already 34234324 guides on how to play assassination
ruby idol
The idea is a global you were going to spend anyway is more valuable inside EP than outside
full pagoda
I know I've got told those are ''minor dps loses'' but when here and there minor shit combines, it's not so minor, so I wanna clear it out
ruby idol
Which has a lot more varience to it than just sitting at a certain energy level or not spamming. Its resource management
full pagoda
I don't need a guide as I am not a beginner, that's the sad thing, I just have been doing some shit more or less, which is not supposed to happen on players who are not starting the game I guess
Thanks guys, you helped a lot ❤
sonic bridge
Well you don't seem like someone experienced either
full pagoda
I'm sure that there are some other people like me who have been doing some content, still doing some very basic/stupid things which they aren't supposed to
It's another thing if they will try to find them and fix them
full pagoda
I wonder if Hidden blades is better with 3 EB or not really?
short pivot
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
hearty junco
What opener is recommended with master assasin? got No SS
pastel crystal
nice!
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
ionic arrow
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
strange python
if i have 5 cps and i got TB up is it a big deal if i waste that 1 cp from TB to get 5cp enevom right after TB ?
solid nova
TB at 5 is fine
strange python
aight ty
dapper moat
About spamming envenom question?
I mean if u dont spam envenom, then in long fights u end up using it less?
red creek
That’s not how that works
If you never energy cap then you are going to use the same amount of moves you would use whether you spam or not since energy is the limiting resource in this conversation
By not spamming you are allowed the time to make the best decisions for the use of that energy each time you use it and allocate larger chunks of energy for Windows that you need to be using it in
strange python
do you wanna hold ur TB for Vendetta ?
and otherway around if it close like 10 sec or so
solid nova
No, TB on CD as stated in the guide
Its not worth losing a cast over a duration of a fight.
strange python
ic
primal gazelle
Not perfect until you get 3 deadshot 2 ace 1 wits
bleak spoke
@primal gazelle did you end up getting those azerite pieces from the raid that you wanted
primal gazelle
not yet
strange python
any tips on opulence or pretty straight forward?
red creek
Assassination opp?
strange python
ye
red creek
I think the correct Azerite traits are most important. For parsing the entire fight comes down to how you handle two waves of adds with the second wave being more important than the first
Unless you meant mechanics
red creek
Luls
visual quartz
our feral gets ruby now, Opal life is fun
visual quartz
pretty sure its on CD at all times
finite acorn
kk ty
dense delta
those stats are kinda okay for m+ right?
finite acorn
Tempo 🤔
solid nova
Haste
rigid mango
I've been getting rid of all my haste for m+, yet when I got stat weights just now haste is simming highest, I was under the general consensus of getting rid of as much haste as possible and stack crit/mastery
primal gazelle
That’ll only happen if you’re using dungeonslice as a sim, which I don’t think is reliable
Overvalue boss fights and small 2-3 add fights
true ingot
Having to take Ruby is a hard feelsbadman
round harbor
nah you kill the boss
cobalt gyro
^
strange python
but shiny parse on hard boss is gud no?
green vapor
any point whatsoever keeping multiple ruptures up on mythic council?
except a bit of faster energy regen
vestal stump
Only of they relatively near each other. Generally not worth at all if you are gonna be running a mile to reapply a rupture here and there. Boss uptime will net you more than a little bit of extra energy gen.
strange python
Why do we have no AOE? Fan of knives is a joke
vestal stump
??? Have you tried EB?
civic palm
We've plenty what's the issue?
strange python
I will research more then I am almost 120 and all I have is fan of knives so far
civic palm
Correct.
indigo cove
@strange python FoK for combo points, apply rupture to multiple targets, envenom when your energy starts balancing out
I repeatedly out-dps classes i shouldn't on trash fights in raid
I've gone over 100k dps multiple times with Crimson Tempest just for funsies
FoK isnt your main AoE, Rupture is. FoK is just the way you build points.
cobalt gyro
it is with multiple EB traits
indigo cove
I guess. Lol.
civic palm
No guessing.
cobalt gyro
with multiple EB traits you're gonna do more damage once you've spread ruptures by basically keeping up envenom and spamming fok
indigo cove
In what situation are you stacking EB?
cobalt gyro
what m+ s ituation are you not
indigo cove
I was discussing raid, this is the first time m+ was mentioned
Curb your condescension
cobalt gyro
ah, i saw main aoe so i assumed we're talking m+ since there's very little aoe in the currentl raid
indigo cove
I do keep one EB during raid though because my team likes to pretty much afk during it :\
Thats also because its an awful azerite piece but it was a 385-415 upgrade
civic palm
There's no AoE in raid outside of AoE burst in Opulence so people tend to not think about it.
cobalt gyro
pretty much
indigo cove
Is there an argument between EB and Shrouded Suffocation for m+?
Or is it just SSx3 > if you dont have the traits
cobalt gyro
you take SS because you get really easy re-stealths so obviously, big value
but SS isn't really an aoe trait
civic palm
It's cleave if anything, mostly single target.
strange python
Hey guys, with MA do you multidot alot at Jadefire or do you focus more on Single Target without multidotting
at mythic*
tall mirage
MA isn't really going to change anything you do outside of your vanish. Keep dots up on the main bosses and pump your vend/ vanish into the priority target.
visual quartz
choosing to ST when you can multi-dot for dmg/energy seems like a bad idea
civic palm
That is unless it's mathematically not worth it.
Though I do multi-dot for Jadefire because they might as well be the same fucking unit.
visual quartz
yeah of course, but jadefire its a straight 2target, 99% ontop of each other. Conclave its a bad idea
civic palm
weapon+trinket?
cobalt gyro
dice + spyglass + blightborne infusion
civic palm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmblightborne
civic palm
Yeah
Trying to remember when Crit craps out in value but I cannot rememberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
fuuuuuuuuck
But the uptime makes it not matter me thinks.
cobalt gyro
basically just means on a big pull you'll always fill combo points on fok
civic palm
Ye
pseudo shore
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
strange python
How come alot of Rogues are stacking "Nothing Personal"? I thought the effect can't stack Oo
civic palm
The DMG always stacked.
strange python
I am wondering because they are picking it over Treacherous Covenant Oo
Which i thought wuold be S-Tier
civic palm
There were changes to some traits going into Mythic week of BoD and some things were moved around a little.
cobalt gyro
i mean, DD/NP/TC all sim very closely together
golden relic
TC :puke:
peak smelt
If there are points in an encounter where vendetta bursts are worth more than sustained damage NP could be more valuable. I was thinking about Mekka earlier. The transition phase you can't dps but your vendetta is coming back off cd making it more valuable.
signal bear
is nothing personal better than treacherous covenant in single target (raid) ?
grave elk
for first vanish with MA you vanish- TB- muti envenom? then next vanish you can (TB-vanish-env or muti- env or as needed ?
lone junco
should be same as first. sim apl is vanish tb mut env.
real ballers tb vanish env mut env.
but not critting the mut makes you want to /wrist
grave elk
yeah and the tb can only crit and give 2 cp right?
sometimes my first muti doesnt crit for my rupture and it throws off my shit
lone junco
if you wanna be super safe vanish at 2cps.
vanish tb mut env.
prob gonna waste though
grave elk
yeah i had one pull where i did tb vanish muti env muti but that was bad
visual quartz
rolling duel SS but TB still sims higher 😦
visual quartz
I do, just like Exang play
strange python
Yeah I've been doing van tb mut env. It's a lot safer than tb van mut env mut. Cuz sometimes you have to tb van mut mut env which is as said before, /wrists
primal gazelle
Interesting comparison in a FH19 i just did with another sin rogue, i ran 3 eb 2ss 1 sob, he used 3 ss 2 eb 1 NP. The 3rd stack of EB is massive 😛
i also died 3 times during reaping cos i suck, he died 0
civic palm
Yes.
strange python
When is it worth to take ct > pb
primal gazelle
all except kr/tos
lone junco
lol what a joke
strange python
Interesting
cobalt gyro
@primal gazelle 3rd stack is crazy
try getting a blightbourne instead of sob too, shit puts you at 80% crit
grave elk
cobalt gyro
its not like it only procs on trash tho
civic palm
Does make EB better at lower target counts though. 👌
civic palm
SS/BB though?
azure jewel
change subterfuge to master assassin @potent oracle try that
primal gazelle
if you use ss/bb then you wont have 3 eb
cobalt gyro
civic palm
primal gazelle
yea i have that but ss/bb means no 3 eb
cobalt gyro
i guess if you have similar at 415 that's probably fine
potent oracle
@azure jewel is better ?
grave elk
Could someone look at my log for grong and give me feedback on if theres a problem in my rotation or not pooling enough energy. Thank you very much. you can dm me for the feedback as well !
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wbmZLq9TntCkAFHc#fight=11&type=casts&source=186&view=timeline
azure jewel
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/w6nGddBMzAx8ogU2MvR967 @potent oracle seems like it 😃
stable pine
Who’s here simming for 29k?
azure jewel
@potent oracle anytime 😃
sturdy python
Probably no one lol, thats a lot
civic palm
Also, simming under what scenario?
Plenty of people hit 29k for Dungeon Slice, but that's a w/e SIM > _>
dense delta
what do u guys sim for m+ ? or just following crit/mast gear and no haste?
civic palm
~10% haste, max crit/mastery
dense delta
got it.
odd hatch
what are you big guys simming at for raiding
grave elk
Do you guys hold TB for vanish and vendetta when they are coming back up if running Master Assassin? i see it would prob be sitting there for like 9 seconds or so while i wait for them all to align
civic palm
Nope.
grave elk
ok so if u dont hold it/dont have it up. Just vendetta vanish muti env muti?
civic palm
Do what you normally do, just don't hold TB for too long.
Remember that TB has a decent duration and you don't need all of vendetta to make use of it.
Holding it for 4-5 seconds ain't the end of the world though.
grave elk
Yeah i just always never find a way to pool before TB comes up. i regularly only fit 2 envenoms in the window. Its like garrote or rupture always need a refresh when i wanna save up
civic palm
2 is what you want, more is better but 2 should be your minimum.
grave elk
oh okay i thought 3 is what you want and 2 is acceptable.
civic palm
In vendetta sure, or if you have a ton of fucking energy.
buoyant flicker
assa confirmed top m+ spec 4Head
cobalt gyro
tol dagor
buoyant flicker
😡 exposed 😡
primal gazelle
you ran with 2 healers?
cobalt gyro
i assumed it was a carry
strange python
pref traits for m+ are prob 3eb/ss yes?
i think the closest i can prob get is 2 eb, 3 ss 1 ttk
somber talon
thats fine ttk is one of the hottest traits for keys if you want to destroy prio targets
strange python
good to know. with my current gear i can only do 3 ss/2 ttk and 1 eb
but iirc running that im lacking in cleave
somber talon
thats like even better , fits my playstyle
strange python
oh?
somber talon
you need atleast 1 EB rest is just what you want, EB is just there to deal actual aoe damage in reaping rest is debatable/dungeonchoice like KR where TTK/SS is ultra strong on the pulls there
strange python
i see, okay
yeah gonna see how dungeon slice sims with that setup atm
sims saying scent > ttk 🤔
that doesnt seem right though
quick ice
TBH, dungeon slice is imperfect.
Some very big question marks as to whether it truly emulates M+.
glossy kestrel
still in beta. very much question marks. really depends on the group comp and affices
strange python
understandable
runic flicker
what is a good stat weight for assassin? im 402 but im only simming like 20k lol
i am super crit heavy
sturdy python
Need to sim stat weights and see
that big of a difference in sims is likely something else besides stats though
Azerite, weapon, sim options
drifting cloud
not sure how you can sim 20k at 402 unless you have wrong talents, no enchants and bad azerite
you should easily be simming 22-23k
unless you have like 3x ss and 2k vers or something
bleak spoke
Oh trust me it’s possible
drifting cloud
how?
bleak spoke
Bad azerite
drifting cloud
im pretty sure I was simmin over 22k in 385 wq azerite
bleak spoke
Bad trinkets
drifting cloud
1st week of raid
bleak spoke
I was simming 21.7 at 406
drifting cloud
with 3 sockets, not like I have 10
drifting cloud
do ahve the set tho
bleak spoke
If you think about it that’s almost 4 agi gems
drifting cloud
but still rocking 405 azerite helm
bleak spoke
And those are good stats for us
drifting cloud
yeah but only reason I use that gear is because of the socket
bleak spoke
I still have a crit heavy crit haste ring
drifting cloud
otherwise I just have something better ilvl that sims worse
bleak spoke
With set bonus I think it’s like 500 more
drifting cloud
the ring has vers so it barely beats 385 with socket no vers
napkin math but you get the point
like you just dont get huge dps gain anywhere outside of azerite and unless you have some erally terrible trinkets
thats why every rogue rogue around 410+- 3 sims 26+- less than 1k
grave elk
does cloak drop stacks of chilling on jaina fight?
strange python
ah, that's what it was
oops didn't know NP/BI sims higher than TC/NP
eh only like a 50 dps difference, cbf reforging too expensive rn
strange python
lmao zzzz
fleet anchor
Regarding the discussion above, no DungeonSlice isn't perfect for emulating M+. Although, if anything, it's too focused on ST which would be an advantage for TTK sims vs. Scent of Blood.
Not quite sure why folks are quite so hot on TtK. It's ok, but I don't really think it's anything more than average. For ST/Prio target, Double Dose is far stronger.
Scent of Blood is, in theory, quite strong if you are rolling multiple Ruptures. The main issue with it is that it's basically only half a trait on ST.
strange python
yeah, i'm almost tempted to try out ST gear w/ eb/ss chest in lowish keys (sub 13)
fleet anchor
So it depends on if you're focusing on AoE vs. ST
Both TtK and SoB are kinda total opposites in that regard
strange python
i can see why; one is focused more on "prio" dmg, while the other is focusing on spamming ruptures on everything
fleet anchor
Although for pure boss/prio damage I'd run 1x NP over anything else pretty easily
sturdy python
The thought is when theres one high health enemy in a group FoK>Envenom into it speeds up the pack more than killing the small health enemies faster
I dont do anything hard enough to say though
civic palm
TtK also allows pack-to-pack priority targeting, which NP cannot.
fleet anchor
Sure but the reality is that TtK is really just not a very strong trait. It's average at best.
Really not much or any stronger than the vast majority of generics
civic palm
I think there might have been a stat shift to facilitate it but I am not 100% on that.
bleak spoke
Okay @cobalt gyro you’re right assa is infinitely safer in shrine
I’m still giga mad that they let the tune take my vanish garrote off by not kicking on the second boss but key was timed unlike any of the outlaw keys
fleet anchor
Like as far as I can see, even with only 3 targets having 3 Ruptures rolling with 1x Scent of Blood will make your Envenom hit like 2k harder than 1x TtK
bleak spoke
I think with the way it’s played you can’t really spread ruptures or it’s too slow
Cuz you lose too many globals to vendetta to Tb etc
civic palm
Sure is a lot of Vers/Crit/Haste going around > _>"
bleak spoke
Cuz opener on prio is like 3 g vendetta rupture fok Tb env
fleet anchor
Even at 2T pretty sure Scent of Blood pulls ahead
bleak spoke
Cuz you need smallies to stay alive
Maybe a place like underrot it makes sense to go scent
fleet anchor
And not putting up at least a few Ruptures is just going to lower your prio damage anyway due having much lower energy regen
civic palm
thismotherfucker
bleak spoke
But the ttk build replaces subtlety’s role innit
fleet anchor
Like I get if you are on some special pack with like 1 biggie and tons of nothing mobs that instantly die like in some Shrine pulls or whatever.. that's a special case, but that doesn't seem broadly applicable
bleak spoke
Yeh but I think it’s only played for those dungeons really
Only seli plays it everywhere I think most ppl favor 3EB to pad or even 3EB 3SS exsang still I think
fleet anchor
But then my argument would be like.. why TtK over DD?
civic palm
crazyperson
bleak spoke
Every time
civic palm
He does run with a WW/Havoc most of the time it seems.
cobalt gyro
@bleak spoke why did you doubt
fleet anchor
I mean, kinda interesting I guess but... seems odd to be using FoK with multiple Echoing Blade traits but then also be concerned that putting up some Ruptures would deal too much cleave damage 😄
bleak spoke
Yeh that’s what ashine said
civic palm
and within the prior week a buncha SIN doing 20+ on average have taken at least 1 TtK to every dungeon.
bleak spoke
But I think there’s a fine line between being prio and being a liability in giga aoe
civic palm
It's about clearing packs as quickly as possible.
You're still running 3xEB but removing 1xSS for the TtK it seems.
and yeah it looks like running 2 larger AoE DPS MW/OTL/Havoc/etc. is being used in tandem with this concept.
or ret, or frost, etc.
even in KR
fleet anchor
I guess I just don't personally see anything to support why TtK would be all that valuable, even in these situations.
civic palm
and note that this has dumped mastery entirely, it's just crit/haste/vers.
Mastery on weapon MAYBE.
at least some of them
OTL converts O _O who knows.
fleet anchor
Like I'd need to dive into the specifics a little more to understand what about it would be better than another SS trait for example
civic palm
I don't think it's about beating traits, and entirely about killing a priority target if it exists. 2xSS and 3xEB with vers. stacks still allows for good AoE.
and if a fatter target exists ENV is dumped into it.
cobalt gyro
EB does pretty much all of your damage in aoe after shrouded garrotes fall off
if there's no prio target you basicially otherwise only spend points to keep up envenom
ttk makes it a bit more valuable to dump into one target
primal gazelle
@marble hemlock thoughts on what koji is saying?
cobalt gyro
also damn, triple vampiric speed
that guy must heal his fucking health bar every reaping wave lmao
fleet anchor
As far as I can tell, unless something is wrong with my sim overrides
Will double check it though
primal gazelle
tag me when you find out
civic palm
Seli is already on the TtK train.
fleet anchor
Checked it and does seem slightly higher yeah
Although at 2T it's very close
like 100 DPS
On prio target damage
civic palm
High crit, haste and vers, ditch mastery grab a TtK
primal gazelle
well seli is the main advocate for ttk, so id like to hear his opinion on the math here
fleet anchor
Right I get the idea behind the damage breakdown, but having high Envenom damage doesn't specifically mean TtK is adding a lot of it 😛
cobalt gyro
how many ttk's
civic palm
that UR18
fleet anchor
Like with that Rupture damage amount there I assume there is more than 1 Rupture going out
cobalt gyro
triple ttk 2 eb
tight meteor
does the build do decent ST as well?
civic palm
Mostly.
tight meteor
as in like no adds to use fok
civic palm
Scroll up there's an overall and dmg breakdown from Details
fleet anchor
Don't get me wrong, not saying TtK is 'bad' and certainly it won't make any major difference one way or another. I'd be surprised if it was a deal breaker either way.
People run what they want to run 😃
TtK even in the breakdown above with Envenom at around 20% damage would be contributing what.. probably around 3% damage? Assuming he has 1 rank in there rather than 2.
sturdy python
If 3 ruptures out with 1 sob trait increases envenom damage more than ttk then it would be nice to know yeah
fleet anchor
Seems pretty neutral with Garrote SS bonus damage on a pack's prio target, but would really need to breakdown logs or something
fleet anchor
I'm not the biggest Scent of Blood fan myself since I don't like how poor it is on ST. But 3x Ruptures is 537 Agility which is... kinda a lot.
civic palm
Yeah.
It is fucking everywhere though, but it's obviously not a blowout anywhere or there would be a larger difference.
fleet anchor
Possible I could tweak the APL to replicate this sort of purely prio-damage focused rotation and figure this out a bit more scientifically
civic palm
Could just try something with literally no timer and dump into ST with a decent group to FoK on.
youWouldObviouslyTimeIt
sturdy python
It was done for sub and zul if I remember right
civic palm
and a ton of crit.
lone junco
remember he uses TTK to pump prio dmg
fleet anchor
Well Noobe, I get the theory there
civic palm
I don't see SS winning, SoB sure.
fleet anchor
Why not SS though?
civic palm
Especially considering you might not get to restealth.
lone junco
ss is bad cause it kills 3 of the 8 early. the rest of the pack still takes time
civic palm
Chain pulling might just be faster.
fleet anchor
Why bother running any SS if TtK is better at prio target then?
sturdy python
I thought if that but they’re running at least 1 ss anyway
lone junco
1 ss is good for the open
sturdy python
But we are talking about prio damage
civic palm
There ARE 3xEB | 3xTtK clears > _> but 2xSS is more popular by far.
fleet anchor
I guess I'm just having a difficult time following the exact environment that would lead to SS not being better for prio damage, Ruptures being impossible to keep up because it would deal too much damage, frequent enough that NP/Vendetta won't be held for it... but SS is good enough to run 2 of. This seems like such a wide set of conditions that it's hard for me to see the convergence I guess.
civic palm
I am not sure of the reason for using 2xSS and not just 1xSS | 2xTtK.
fleet anchor
Not saying it doesn't potentially work out, just trying to figure out the parameters that would allow for it
lone junco
I like the 1ss 2ttk 3eb
you can open well with g g g. but when reaping rolls in you can fok env fok env fok env. without needed the restealth from 3ss.
civic palm
Yeah that's where my mind goes as well, 2xSS seems odd, especially considering like Koji mentioned, why is the added damage important if you want it for the CP and nothing else.
lone junco
its good boss dmg still.
fleet anchor
Right although I would argue if you are to the point where you are focused on prio damage and this particular rotation/setup with EB
And restealthing enough a problem that 3x SS is bad
Why not just run MA?
lone junco
energy after open
civic palm
I don't think the 1 vanish is worth it, and the lack of restealthing is an outlier.
civic palm
I can't imagine a fucked up world where chainpulling is faster with 2xAoE and SIN.
lone junco
if you were MA. you would fokfokfok and go dry
fleet anchor
Right but this all feels slightly circular then lol
lone junco
you trying to find a slice sim that favors TTK over scent?
civic palm
Same reason you maintain SOME haste with the crit/mastery build so you're not garbage on bosses.
and this build is ALL Crit/Haste/Vers.
fleet anchor
Like either SS/Subterfuge is good or it is not good? If it is good, why is it worth dropping over TtK? If it is bad, why not just drop it for MA and go all in on TtK? Seems like a funny compromise to me, but like I said perhaps I don't understand the specific parameters
civic palm
SS/SUB is clearly a ton of damage when repeated like you do in M+.
The problem is that seems like it might be faster to dump into a priority target while your AoE'rs are nuking the pack.
That doesn't however mean that having a strong opener in both damage and NRG is worthless.
As it will take longer to create a scenario in which you can FoK+ENV if you don't have SS/SUB.
primal gazelle
but if SOB > TTK in giving more envenom dmg at 3+ targets, why pick ttk at that point?
civic palm
IF it is.
lone junco
tabbing ruptures, once E capped. ?
civic palm
I imagine it might come back to clear speed and how SUB used to play, just not sacrificing the groups playstyle to facilitate the SUB Rogue.
fleet anchor
Well it's not just about the Evenom damage
It's about all the prio damage on the main target
civic palm
Of course.
fleet anchor
SoB will buff all of it
primal gazelle
ah so the sims includes dots buffed by sob to make it out damage ttk's envenom dmg?
lone junco
agi is agi.
lone junco
but it isnt our best stat iirc
civic palm
I don't know how bad it is in like... a 9 + 1 situation.
lone junco
best ive seen is 8 tabbed ruptures using scent.
civic palm
The thing then is that you are not STing anymore, and are tab rupturing to maintain those ruptures.
and just AoEing like the rest of the group.
lone junco
pray to got its buffing your EB and fok white, cause otherwise, thats a lot of waiting for aoe
right.
i like the fok fok env fok env popping Pbombs on packs.
primal gazelle
i wouldnt rupture past 5-6 anyways, with or without SOB
civic palm
There are SOME cases where massive Ruptures make sense.
But you need like... 20 mobs > _>
lone junco
Plus Exang is balls. when you can TB Env the prio
civic palm
I kinda wanna see what 3xEB | 3xSoB with mongo pulls looks like now.
It was already silly pre-second ring.
With JUST SoB.
primal gazelle
your ST would be absolute shit with 6 aoe traits
lone junco
ct gets in the way of most everything else
civic palm
Though OTL doesn't beat SIN in that situation as the pulls are too long.
civic palm
lol
civic palm
lol
strange python
im still interesting in the 3ss/2ttk/1eb
i just gotta wait 2 days for reforges to go down lul
civic palm
EB is too much damage IMO, that if you have the option to use it at a similar item level and not is self-sabotage.
That's if you have 3 anyway.
strange python
atm, those are what i can run, for this lockout. i'm sure come tuesday i can prob do a normal eb/ss x3
i heard EBs dmg is insane
primal gazelle
jus play outlaw tbh if you only have 1 eb, cos your aoe will be laughable
civic palm
l o l
strange python
yeah i'm playing otl atm
just boring asf
worth pooling resid for 2 more weeks for a 415? or just get 2x 400s for now
strange python
kk
cobalt gyro
i feel like it's REALLY hard to get value with scent
and even then it'd be super worth at 3 scents, but you're either giving up SS or EB'
fleet anchor
Just ignore Scent and TtK and just get Swirling Sands instead 😛
strange python
i like that
fleet anchor
Swirling Sands would be good but on the wrong tiers 😦
cobalt gyro
I don't have access to a good swirling piece
fleet anchor
Shares pieces with both SS and EB on the middle with TtK on the outer ring
Apparently it's required that all Swirling Sands pieces have TtK on the outer ring, since it's on all 3 of them 😄
bleak spoke
If it wasn’t explained 1 SS is played cuz of guaranteed combo points and to get the energy started
I think the reason ppl take 2 SS 2EB 2FOK is cuz helm with EB TTK is hard
But opulence has ss ttk
Like you can build 222 out of opulence rasta conclave
But let’s say sob is actually good then you need shoulders from jaina to play fok sob
fleet anchor
Gorak Tul's Mantle with SS + Blightborne Infusion is pretty strong, think people sleep a bit on Blightborne
civic palm
Yeah BB is making a bit of noise.
fleet anchor
Blightborne actually showing to me as the highest prio damage with that trait setup and the stats funny enough lol
Just straight 3T, nothing special
cobalt gyro
Looks about right
Has a 24% uptime give or take in my m+ runs
Kinda nuts for how big the proc is
fleet anchor
Yeah seems about right according to sims, simming at 23.3%
Gorak Tul's is such a nice piece for so many setups lol
and specs
civic palm
Nice that it's consistent.
cobalt gyro
I am debating whether i should switch my enchants to vers and crit though, from crit haste
civic palm
Just smash Crit O _O
fleet anchor
Haste does seem somewhat poor in a M+ environment
Since Energy is likely not the concern really
And not as much DoT damage, doesn't really help EB damage
patent elk
Well tyrannical weeks haste is good
fleet anchor
Although enchants are so small nowadays lol
cobalt gyro
@civic palm just go double crit enchants, duh 
cobalt gyro
Just in case outlaw meme build becomes a thing again? 
cobalt gyro
I've been running two swords because no set bonus, and it messes with my xmog
Xmog > dps
civic palm
yes
civic palm
STILL CAN'T DO 50/50 SKINS BTW BLIZZ
cobalt gyro
They're a small indie team
civic palm
Yeah with all the layoffs :3
civic palm
There's just clearly more important shit to work on atm.
fleet anchor
Break the system
cobalt gyro
I've ran jaina so many tines trying to get the swore
Sword*
I already have the ring
fleet anchor
Got a 400 last week finally
Anyway, bed for me. If anyone wants to hit me up later about the TtK or whatever, just ping/DM me!
civic palm
No, like this - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/124169701881282560/454514685375676417/unknown.png
fleet anchor
Haha
civic palm
Gimme that back Blizz :3 Meanies.
fleet anchor
If only
The red skin of that weapon is one of my favorites.. if it didn't clip into the ground
civic palm
Yeee
fleet anchor
I'm still waiting for them to let us Mutilate with Swords 😄
fleet anchor
I will head to bed with the knowledge that the Mutilate icon is clearly Gladius-style swords, and the tooltip just says "Attack with both weapons"
cobalt gyro
and sinister strike is clearly a dagger
fleet anchor
And Toxic Blade only says "blade" and doesn't mention Daggers anywhere
And Envenom says "blades"
civic palm
and that Kingsblade literally just states BLADE in the name of the ability.
😦
bane?
fuckmeinmyface
Nothing to see up there.
Keep... going... down.
cobalt gyro
good work
civic palm
To be fair to myself, Kingsblade does say BLADE in the name, it just isn't a thing.
red creek
^
fleet anchor
At the very least we should be able to use fist weapons though
fleet anchor
Rupture's icon is literally a fist weapon, like wtf
cobalt gyro
ok but what about pistol shot
hidden hollow
civic palm
Rename to DISEMBOWEL RIGHT NOW
BLIZZARD
That name really makes no sense with that icon.
fleet anchor
hah
But yeah honestly I don't get any class fantasy reason that Asn couldn't use fist weapons given the style
Not even a backstab spec or anything, seems rather arbitrary
civic palm
Yeah not at all, guess they just want another stabby spec.
Let OTL be swords/maces.
SUB me daggers.
fleet anchor
Daggers are just such a pain to get
civic palm
SIN be Fists
cobalt gyro
i mean tbh i want a ranged spec
civic palm
Just fists, nothing else.
cobalt gyro
considering we can still equip guns/bows etc
civic palm
and get TMOG for them > _>"
civic palm
That's the most confusing thing for me.
Why can I get TMOG for a weapon I cannot use.
But not shields...
cobalt gyro
i mean technically you can equip it (^:
civic palm
Yeah but you can't USE IT COME OOOOOOOOOON.
It is because you can equip it, by WHY can I equip bows?
¯_(ツ)_/¯
cobalt gyro
i mean, a bow does make sense to an extent
civic palm
I haven't tried putting arrows in my inventory and tried right clicking with a box equiped in a while.
WHO KNOWS.
bow*
You cannot equip boxes last I checked.
fleet anchor
You will understand why when WoW classic comes out and you are using Shoot Bow on Baron Geddon 🤣
fleet anchor
I assume primarily just to taunt Hunters with after you get the legendary from KJ
civic palm
mmm, that's what I do anyway.
cobalt gyro
❓
cobalt gyro
ok wish me luck team https://i.imgur.com/8hyeLP4.png
civic palm
O _O
visual quartz
Taeyon is pretty cute though
civic palm
While entirely off-topic... yessheis
visual quartz
I love blowing vendetta/vanish garrots/tb/zerking/lust on mekka torque then getting bomb just to go sit in the corner and sulk
visual quartz
To be honest, I listen to old GG and other k-pop during raid to focus
winter moss
bleak spoke
got the feat of strength @cobalt gyro god bless assa
bleak spoke
15 timed all keys haha
cobalt gyro
nice
bleak spoke
iron wire is so carry
cobalt gyro
ya it's insane
sacred hatch
is there any guide for pvp?
modern bloom
glossy kestrel
@visual quartz isn't that the truth. i kept getting hexed on conclave with vendetta ticking
i'm not a pro or anything, but then i started just holding my opener for 10 seconds until hex went out. you know SOMEONE if going to get hit with giga/hex. raid dps is going to take a hit regardless
just a question of wehtehr CDs get wasted
obtuse sleet
Can you pre cloak it?
obtuse sleet
You don't really need cloak that fight until the last couple winds so it seems fine to do that.
hollow gyro
yup
bleak spoke
If you’re going to delay your opener you should probably open again relative to toxic blade cd tbh
worldly iron
not sure which difficulty you're playing on, but if I were to delay the opener I would potentially miss out on full duration vendetta on Kimbul during BL
we always BL after raptors and by then I have around 7-10 seconds left on vendetta
jovial vault
So what's this new TTK build I hear a few people talk about now for m+
distant helm
If i switch Subft for MA (running 3 DD 1 treach, 2 NP) do i not put up my bleeds on my first MA Window and just mut evenom for the 3s and then put up my bleeds? Havent played a lot with MA and we just got to Mekka so i thought now is the time
worldly iron
bleeds asap
fiery cradle
bleeds first ma window ven/trink vanish tb/mut/env second window
nimble tartan
mmm
distant helm
so i guess ill garrote > mut > rupture > stack 5 combo points > vanish/trinket/vendetta > evenom > tb > mut > evenom?
fiery cradle
without ttk id assume just garrote -> mut > rupture -> ven/trink -> vanish -> tb -> mut -> env would be better
distant helm
well i dont have a single ss trait so garrote into rupture doesnt work right
visual quartz
can only do 3 gcd in your vanish window, that last envenom technically would be outside MA
distant helm
oh alright
distant helm
my bad, early morning
worldly iron
second night of mekka yesterday, still stuck with my SS+TTK
got him to 12.8% at least 
distant helm
so technically its almost impossible to get 2 evenoms into the MA window?
fiery cradle
could be worse u could still be on rastakaahn omegalul
worldly iron
we did extend on rastakhan though 
most people have the loots I want from champions and jadefire, I believe, so hopefully the azerite pieces will be rolled out
fiery cradle
i mean you can if you tb outside of ma window but without ttk tb in ma window is more consistent @distant helm
strange python
heard some people doing mut rupture mut first MA window
any opinions on an opener like this one?
bleak spoke
What would you even do like muti rupture muti garrote vendetta tb vanish?
Seems like a losing proposition given energy regen
solid nova
Cant see how its more beneficial either
harsh sphinx
seen it in a few logs but never tried it out
golden relic
that would be weird
considering if u dont crit with mutilate u will cast another one anyway to rupture and then u have missed out of 3 globals of garrote appling it afterwards
lone junco
They are preying for a cold dd and crit on the first mut. But without env up. Gl.
warm geode
the EB build is better with 3 SS for sure or 1 SS and other 2 randoms?
lone junco
3eb 1ss 2ttk
golden relic
smth like that, but idk why you would solely go for a pure EB build
lone junco
I thought it was crit >>>
golden relic
whats the benefit of it
warm geode
@lone junco `yeah
@golden relic tons of damage
i just spammed fok and got 160k dps on FH
with 2 EB
golden relic
well ye obvsly i get the dmg part of it but why 3
vast forum
strange python
160k? You mean peek at 160k right?
lone junco
It's fairly common.
cobalt gyro
depends on how long the pull lasts
warm geode
everything depends on size, duration, comp
btw i was competing with a good warlockx 😃
strange python
Hmm. Well maybe it is since I play with DH Mage. But I have never gotten 160k after a reapong
warm geode
as outlaw i got there
but doing just pressing one button
as sin, is fun
i can do every mecanics and not lose dps
so, dont need DH for dat
most easier class to play -.-``
lone junco
And if the 3traits for aoe. And 3 for st.
warm geode
@lone junco do u know who scales with versatility better for : TtK SS and DD ?
strange python
What stats do you have to get 160k with 2 EB?
lone junco
Sorry. To be clear 160 k isn't something I've seen. But 3eb.
warm geode
im around 35% crit 8% vers
lone junco
Idk about vers. I would think crit mastery. Did you run stay weights on 10t 40 to see?
warm geode
was running for 1min
lone junco
Trinkets that push to 55% crit are nice.
lone junco
I'd like Mekka trinket
lone junco
O
cobalt gyro
dice + spyglass
heavy skiff
I have been using the 100 energy tea for trash pulls since im poor af and prepots are expensive
cobalt gyro
huh, never thought of that
heavy skiff
But it works realy well
cobalt gyro
LMAO i'll try it actually
lone junco
Isn't that from vendor?
cobalt gyro
thistle teas ya
golden relic
why would u need thistle tea lol
heavy skiff
Yep
lone junco
Neat. I have been using prolonged power.
golden relic
if u open properly u have energy re gen anyway to spam fok
and then u maintain it and keep EB up with rupture anyway
heavy skiff
Iff trash has a lot of health and u cant get rupture reset bdfore.u get starved
lone junco
It's cheap at least.
strange python
Hmmm
warm geode
and i open with 3 garrotes rupture then fok
peak smelt
when is the last time you ran fh as assassin?
strange python
Then what do you do? Spam FoK and spend CPs on?
peak smelt
maybe raider io is wrong
warm geode
was a huge pack and ended fast
peak smelt
it shows your last 6 days ago and as outlaw
peak smelt
ah i clicked on the wrong one
ya i guess if the key is low enough. you start a fresh pack of reaping from stealth. all the mobs are grouped and it all dies really fast you can get really high
warm geode
i didnt say was 160k everypull, just say the i hit 160k on oneripping and ppl go crazy 😃
i mean
i can hit 200k as outlaw
not big deal
is ripping
peak smelt
160k at the end of a pull is still high i guess. Considering most "big" groups pull reaping on top of other mobs
warm geode
lucky, if the other dude used some aoe burst the explode when i was at high
but at ML was getting 140k almost every ripping
lone junco
If he is doing most of the cleave. I could see it.
peak smelt
i'm going to try my fh tonight as assassin. I have 3 eb. Seems to be getting a lot of love
warm geode
even with thoses numbers i prefer outlaw , and i will only recomend sin for doing mecanics, so much more easy position and interrupts
but outlaw can vanish stun without losing much dps, and have gouge, oh i love gouge
peak smelt
i mean outlaw is really easy for mechanics too with the extra range on melee and kicks
freehold sharkboss...
warm geode
but oulaw u need be paying attention to rotation most of the time
strange python
I was just curious. :) i have almost the same setup stat and gear wise. I play with DH Mage + they play a bit toward me ;) KR reaping in first room.... omg I love that pack. Bleeds up. Vendetta boss- FoK-Env-FoK-Env ;)
warm geode
sin i shut down the monitor and still can play
lone junco
Gouge is nice.