Ya it just doesn't seem worth to me
#assassination
pastel vault
full pagoda
well here are very decent players and they seem to know it lol
full pagoda
well besides TTK, I've got scent choice or blightborne infusion but I don't think they are better, maybe scent is
pastel vault
Ss vendetta still does OK ST on tyrannical
Blight borne is good, scent pretty good
Crit best aoe stat
rose perch
crit is unreal good yeah
idk i'm not a TTK hater i'm just not a convert yet
i am a true lover of SS and EB though
sturdy python
Took me a minute, I think this is the reason TtK is being liked.
I suck, so it hardly matters, just think its interesting
All I care about is beating my DH and boomie friend in overall
cobalt gyro
Example: shrine minibosses
Bunch of mobs nearby that have 10 hp and explode, gotta ST down the big guy
visual quartz
yeah when ppl ask whats best for M+, the real anwser is always, which dungeon are you doing.
sturdy python
Even if TtK is good in those scenarios, I would imagine its only beneficial in some dungeons
Or comps
rose perch
yeah those are the reasons sub was good and better than the overall dps would suggest - i just am skeptical that TTK gives you a good deal in terms of how much priority target you gain per how much overall you sacrifice
sturdy python
Yeah makes sense
cobalt gyro
You'd probably want to give up SS and not eb, which would allow you to chain pull at the least
rose perch
yeah I agree that this week in particular EB is unreal good
something like 1-2SS/1-2TTK/3EB might be a reasonable starting point
the thing is, SS is also prio damage
if you don't play TTK and you just play EB and SS you can still prio stuff down with exsanguinate and vendetta/vanish
but i guess your idea is to drop SS entirely and make stealth not an important part of our damage
which is definitely beneficial but at that point you're really duct-taping sin rogue options and ending up with a worse outlaw rogue imo (which may still be a great play if you don't want to play outlaw!)
visual quartz
Running multiple SS and having your tank chain pull not allowing stealth is actually pretty infuriating.
pastel vault
😬
rose perch
yeah it's possible my perception is tainted because i've only ever played with tanks that accommodated my re-stealths, and I haven't played sin in M+ much since infested left so i haven't felt the real pain of not being able to chain pull
full pagoda
Dratnos, don't take me wrong, before I was ''forced'' to take 3 x DD into ST for raids as it's most likely bis for me atm, I still loved and prefered to play with SS anytime. So, it's still freaking amazing for me to play it in M+. Most of the times i dont trust tanks and I try to restealth as fast as possible.
dark crag
2 times
visual quartz
yeah, usualy just ask and most are good about it, its litteraly 1 sec
some are just overeager
I also love SS, 3xEB 2xSS 1xNP because its all I got
pulsar goblet
I have 3 SS/EB at 415 and the damage is pretty nuts,
full pagoda
well right now I can run with 3 EB I can pretty much use only 1 ss and scent or ttk or blightborne, not sure if 1 ss is not good enough?
pastel vault
I'd go 3eb , 1ss 1 bight borne and what else can you go?
missing 1 slot
Scent would be good on packs of 4/5 where you want to multi rupture everything
rose perch
kings' rest this week is a place i think scent is pretty good
pastel vault
But if there's too many targets you just put up minimum bleeds and spam fan
full pagoda
3 EB, 1 SS, 1 Blightborne, 1 Scent or TTK
rustic ether
i can either have 3eb 2ss 1scent or i can have 3ss 2eb 1blighborne infusion and im at a loss of when i use that
pastel vault
Either one is fine @aya I'd go scent if equal ilvl
rose perch
i'd play the blightborne @rustic ether and i think they're both about equal @full pagoda
full pagoda
I honestly love scent as well so I'd prolly go that one, and yes, they are the same ilvl
For first time I will drop off 415 pieces and get doen to 2 x 390 and 1 400, but it should be fine
pastel vault
Ya if it's a pure ST 415 like dd+NP it wouldn't be as good as aoe 400s
quick wren
what is the number of Targets where you Stop to apply garrote/rup to Everything and just go nuts with Fan? talking about the Fan Build with 3 eb And 1 or 2 ss
roughly speaking ofc
harsh sphinx
usually tell my pug tanks to pull like they normally would. been working out so far with 2/2/2 ttk build
round harbor
Why not just go 6eb tbh
verbal nimbus
6
civic palm
preNerf EB was 4x the damage we have now, probably more with better crit focus.
harsh sphinx
i got to use it one zul kill before it got insta nerf Feelsgood
rustic ether
i remember that ML video of a single rogue pulling the first couple packs and one shotting it
rustic ether
they had no idea we would focus crit
rustic ether
can we all appreciate that they got rid of the fok range increase though that was honestly more troublesome than helpful
civic palm
Yeah
rustic ether
like it blows my mind that anyone thought it was a good idea to have that while tol dagor existed lol
pastel vault
@quick wren you always want "min" bleeds to sustain energy to spam fok but iirc it's 7 targets or 9 I'll look it up
civic palm
Much fewer unless you are only Rupturing.
pastel vault
To spam fok without rupturing further I mean
lone junco
wheat crypt
does asa have even minimal chance against outlaw @ big aoe in m+ ?
pastel vault
Oh I mean you don't rupture 7, you try to keep dotting to a minimum on 7+ and only fok
If you have 3 EB maybe
wheat crypt
😃
pastel vault
The mobs need to be within 8yards as well for echo
I think that's the range
Where outlaw cleaves in a large area
quick wren
from my experience, 2.4k as outlaw, once you reach like 19/20, Stuff lives for so long that you dont have permanent bf Uptime so its like a softcap. i can see assa being competitive there especially in weeks like now
but thats more theory than experience since i lacked the azerite for assa as of now
pastel vault
yeah that's a good point
not tied to BF cd as assa you have full damage all the time
lone junco
thats kindof the point. The Cooldowns are for bosses and prio baddies, and can still pump cleave.
ashen ermine
Think I should swap out Haste gems with Mastery ones until my haste/mastery are about even?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mZUUDyY5RuaL2iC6fWYe2V
Or say fk it and leave it how it is
dark crag
Gem crit
ashen ermine
Why crit @dark crag ?
dark crag
Crit is always good and all 3 specs like crit
You waste more dps with thinking 1 sec than with different kind of sockets
Like aoe mastery is king, st haste and crit is good for both
ashen ermine
Word, thanks homie
rustic ether
with 8.1.5 JCs will be able to gem constantly to what theyre doing im so excited 3
blazing tulip
Any word on Zandalari racials being better than the current races?
rustic ether
im pretty sure its in the upper bracket for sure but it will prolly get nerfed
that regeneratin ability seems really strong for m+
and for raid fights that dont have a constant dmg aura like ghuun or jaina
royal lantern
its getting nerfed 100 %
and dps difference bettwen racials too small too make a real difference anyway
the ''best'' race sims for lime 1,5% most of the time, the ''worst''0,5
wich means when you do...idk 25000 as the worst race, you do 25250 if EVERYTHING happens the same way, crits/procs/movment etc........
solar quarry
for mythic BOD are most sin rogues using Subterfuge or Master Assassin for ST boss fights
quasi pewter
most are running whatever sims highest for them for pure st
solar quarry
yah so master assin is more burst im thinking
sims dont really account for burst phases its why im asking
solar quarry
yeah shroud and subt ofc i see
lone junco
dont need shroud to play Subterfuge
scarlet wing
u dont need shroud for subterfuge
solar quarry
just wondering i main outlaw but am swithcing to sin for mythic raiding since its just straight up better in there
quasi pewter
havent seen anyone simming higher with subt than ma without shrouded traits
lone junco
3DD 3NP can still play subterfuge at a small loss, but
quasi pewter
tbh
lone junco
its not that far behind, and you cant really mess it up.
did you vanish into Garrote?
grats
im still for 5sec MA at 50% or 3 sec MA at 100%
the current iteration is limp/lame
tb mut env. wooo
quasi pewter
balance between subt and ma is good atm though
lone junco
agree
solar quarry
mmh yeah well i have 3x DD and 1x Shrouded with 1xNP and engineering thingy so ill stick with subter
quasi pewter
i have like 3 415 azerites for each slot so i can swap in some shrouded for jadefire etc
but later bosses are all pretty much pure st
solar quarry
just wondering and switching things around as im gonna play sin now in mythic progression its just much better then outlaw
real bay
actually 1.5min faster
solar quarry
just sucks i need to regem everything back to haste and enchant the rings
quasi pewter
i caused my guild to private log from now on because i didnt take red gem on opulence yesterday
and in that run i got rank 4 rastakhan and rank 7 jadefire
opulence doesnt even give all star points
i realized afterwards
solar quarry
is it worth still having one +40 agi gem
quasi pewter
no
real bay
caring that much atm to private log 
quasi pewter
agi is worst stat
quasi pewter
for me its also not worth to take feast anymore
70 mastery > 100 agi for me
haste aswell
solar quarry
yeah haste still my highest
forest nacelle
how much haste, is too much haste? or is that answered by "simming"
solar quarry
eh i mean i guess yah when u hit a certain point of haste mastery starts to get on par with it but id still with haste more often than not
velvet geyser
Im runnin 3x EB and 3x SS this week, has anyone tried slipping in some scent in place for an ss or two? Real bored at work here lol
opal minnow
is anyone still using CT these days? or are you just going between PB/HB depending on affix? (assuming you have at least 2x EB traits)
rigid mango
CT is aight for teeming, I still pref PB just because I'm stacking 3 EB's and just fok spam instead
bleak spoke
I think I might play subterfuge instead of ma even without shrouded cuz no crits on that muti is actually infuriating
velvet geyser
Really fucks with ya hey?
robust lake
do u even get a benefit from subterfuge without ss? i guess multitarget fights
rigid mango
If it's patchwerk and you never get over 1 vanish/opener garrote, sure, but if you can get 2+ per vanish I'd stick with sub
Nah, ma is just better
In that case
Crit is worth more than 2 regular garrotes afaik
lone junco
@robust lake you can easily sim MA vs Subterfuge with 3DD and no SS. doubt they are more than 0.3% apart.
real bay
multitarget subt is still better
cobalt gyro
Was 0.1% different for me last night with 2 DD 1 NP
hollow stone
MA can peak higher tho if youre lucky so keep that in mind
And then there's also the night elf effect to be considered if youre NE
fast heart
with subterfuge and toxic blade, do I want to wait with vanish until toxic blade comes up again in my opener? Or should I use vanish earlier on?
lone junco
if you are running subterfuge and TB. the vanish has no interaction with TB
so you would align vanish with vendetta
steel terrace
why on bloodmallet and log i see on use vers buff trinkets? does it work good with burst?
lone junco
use trinkets arent horrible. depends on what you have available.
steel terrace
i mean, why not something that gives crit? on use vers is just for more dmg on burst with TB?
lone junco
and cap your crit at 130% during MA?
verse would work well with the vanish gg. as well as the tb vanish env mut env.
logs are pretty good estimate as a way it could work.
unless they did weird cheese
mint peak
What on use crit trinket is easily available at 400+ ilvl?
steel terrace
he pops trinket on pull?
lone junco
clearly at 4 sec with vendetta
and it is a 2min trinket that aligns with vendetta vanish perfectly
and it isnt GCB bullshit
self buff, so if you did vanish g tab g tab g tab, it would pump.
steel terrace
i'm still trying to understand logs, are those 2 mutilate almost at the same time? so he goes to max cp for rupture
zenith portal
isn't that just mainhand/offhand hit?
steel terrace
oh ok
lone junco
the TB vanish Env mut env is baller
lone junco
correct
and that feather trinket is nice because it is 20sec. and will overlap vendetta duration as well as NP
dark crag
I have 3 dd 2 np 1 tc, am i cool too
lone junco
if it where 10 sec it would be nice with vanish exang rounds.
steel terrace
So subterfuge is worth only if i got some ShroudedSuff azerite?
lone junco
1min cd trinkets would be weaker.
not necessary, but most play 1ss if they are playing subterfuge
steel terrace
cuz without i open with gar mut rup
lone junco
right
dark crag
Without ss you play ma
lone junco
seli was playing 3dd no ss with subterfuge cause he didnt like the whiff on crit during MA
steel terrace
i just blown my mind
lone junco
but yeah most play MA
dark crag
I wanted to play for parses next week but we will extend jaina
steel terrace
but if i pick MA, i should normally refresh gar without vanish and use it instead after pooling with env
right?
dark crag
With ma you refresh it when ever it needs to
Vanish becomes your burst cd with vendetta
steel terrace
ok. cuz with subterfuge i just use it to refresh my first garrotte
anyway, this ma rotation could work properly only with a good amount of haste? because im still struggling with good loot
i just dont wanna test it if my equip cant afford it
lone junco
it works well with 3DD
you should sim the combinations with raidbots top gear.
select a few azerite, with ss and dd and also Subterfuge + MA. and if you have enough sims left, TB + Exang.
bleak spoke
Feels like exsang will never work with ma
Exsang doesn’t even aim better with 3SS and galecallers for me anymore
FeelsBadMan
lone junco
wot.
depending on traits i could see some SS/NP outcomes with Subterfuge /Exang if you dont have the DD>
but not a MA / Exang blend.
strange python
currently running 3x dd/np/tc/ttk and i'm SO glad MA sims higher than subt for me
fleet whale
FoK is still bugged on the PTR. It's giving CPs when you hit nothing
lone junco
as it should. It would have crit. so +2
rose wharf
After a Break: Why to take PB over CT in M+? Did PB got a buff?
fleet whale
You might need more boss damage
rustic ether
hwo has that mythic+ WA that auto makrs certain enemies
oh i didnt notice curse words auto delete messages
lone junco
@rose wharf PB over CT has to do with TTK and crit stacking for EB. when you fok in trash for 5cps fok finish fok fok finish. TTK lests you hammer out ENVs for priodmg and get decent PBS into the reaping. whereas the CT doesnt really scale with much of anything.
honest needle
whats bosses from raid drop bis traits
lone junco
can run the raidbots droptimizer and see what is upgrades for you
honest needle
im in raid dont have time
cant u give me general idea
what bosses
drop bis traits
we just killed jade fire
wasnt sire if its worth rolling
fleet whale
first boss drops a really good helm
mech drops a good chest, and i believe jadefire drops shoulders with NP and TC
hollow stone
Champs jade mekka. Yup
primal gazelle
Why do i do this to myself
lone junco
we had a key in legion that was 2.5hrs over time.
was one of those zones on the argus island that no one liked.
tyrannical. DH said he would tank. turns out he had never specced tank before in a dungeon.
didnt tell us until 2nd boss.
fallen pendant
Hello, does someone have the Weak aura of Mekatorque trinket ?
primal gazelle
feels great when you get targetted by 2 throw rocks
and insta die
or earth shock 3x and instant death unavoidable
lone junco
@fallen pendant https://wago.io/search/Weak+aura+of+Mekatorque+trinket
primal gazelle
ive never died so many times in a m+ in my life
lone junco
did you try hitting feint?
primal gazelle
image this, but happened 4x in a pull on the trash after 1st boss
i literally ran in, instant earth shock 3x and die
lone junco
sounds like one of those multi boxers that hit you with 78 instances of moonfire
royal lantern
just cloak it /s
civic palm
pewpewpew
primal gazelle
vanish didnt even save me here
opaque tree
Deadeye Spyglass ilvl 400 VS Galecallers ilvl 410 - Galecaller's sims 1% higher... but it seems so situational since i won't always get the full 10 seconds
is there an amount where it becomes lower value?
like if you can't get in at least 6 seconds or something?
I almost want to take the Deadeye spyglass
lone junco
I use my 400 bijou over a GC. cause fuck that damn circle
opaque tree
lol
rustic ether
GCB will always sim the perfect conditions
lone junco
I got it first week of BFA and the circle was even smaller.
rustic ether
if you drop even half a second, the sim would drop a bit of dps
opaque tree
I'm just wondering like.. i know it sims perfect conditions
but if it's not like... at least X amount of seconds
rustic ether
i wouldnt use it imo spyglass is awesome
lone junco
GCB is haste, which is pretty much energy return. so unless you stay in it, you arent getting the benefit. and exang is about dead now.
its good, but there are def better
rustic ether
yeah i think the better trinkets now are dice, spyglass, plumage
GCB is still good but so are the others with no conditions
honest needle
is it worth dotting raptors on conclave on heroic i feel its a waste of dps
cause they die pretty fast
potent oracle
guys u can help me here pls
honest needle
especially with no ss traits
honest needle
does any 1 kno
is it worth dotting raptors on conclave on heroic i feel its a waste of dps
civic palm
no
rustic ether
@honest needle dont dot all of them but if youre progging on heroic or mythic you need to help and focus at least one or two of them
make sure to kidney before they become enraged
civic palm
Yeah anything that gets close.
Most fucking healers like to kite them to some other bosses room SOMEHOW.
potent oracle
if anyone can help me with the sim pls i will apreciate it :3
rustic ether
@potent oracle eh mydas trinket isnt a good tirnket
round harbor
@primal gazelle
rustic ether
you have 2 385 azerites
round harbor
Third boss hit so fucjing hard and the overlaps with quaking were lethal
round harbor
Habibal litterally anything but Midas trinket
rose stag
Does dead eye spyglass require you to focus the marked target or will aoe effect tigger the buff?
Trigger"
rustic ether
i too would like confirmation on it seeing as how ive literally had it once during the expansion but it got replaced within an hour so i never used it
potent oracle
perfect
rose stag
Got the answer in another Chanel, cleave trigger it
civic palm
depending on item level mastery might be performing better than Crit.
primal gazelle
LOL
cobalt gyro
i found mastery got really inflated if i was running NP traits
civic palm
Yep
vagrant grotto
guys, what % of stats you suggests ?
lone junco
some of some and lots of others.
M+ is crit mastery. raid is Haste, then crit/mastery.
vagrant grotto
what traits are better for raid 3x Double Dose and 1x Shrouded suff or 2x Double Dose and 2x Shrouded suff..??
rustic ether
@vagrant grotto if theres any hard cleave like second boss
grongg is really good as well
then go for some SS
but anyhting ST like mekka wont be that strong
vagrant grotto
So for more uses is best option 2x DD and 2x SS?
tidal spindle
Hey everyone, new to rogue.. Questions.. Currently level 81 and have been Outlaw.. Could I level as Syn? or is outlaw the way to go
supple hearth
you can level as any of the three
up to you
at 81 you have enough of a tool kit its really just personal preferance
raven mica
How good is the opulence helm for M+? I know it doesnt have EB on it but
vagrant grotto
@rustic ether So for more uses is best option 2x DD and 2x SS?
lone junco
2x dd is Single Target. SS is either single target, 2T, or 3T cleave
vagrant grotto
@lone junco what is 3t or 2T??
lone junco
targets
1 target. grg. vanish gg.
2 targets G tab GG
3 targets G tab G tab G
DD is purely Mutilate based, so a single target trait.
lost horizon
Technically on 2 target it's more effective to g tab g tab g
But it's like the tiniest difference
Basically irrelevant tbh
lone junco
peanuts. if you miss time the 3rd and blow the SS
lost horizon
Don't miss the third time
lone junco
:0
lost horizon
Ez
lost horizon
Miz2fast
red creek
Test
I am currently struggling to maintain damage in mythic BoD as assassination. I have done a fair amount of research between analyzer, warcraftlogs, reading guides on icy veins and wowhead and watching youtube. I was then referred to this discord for further help. I know it is asking a lot but I would greatly appreciate it if someone could take some time and mentor a little. I have logs from my most recent week inside BoD. Conclave was particularly brutal on me
supple hearth
Pins have a guide. can also post ur log here and people will usually throw constructive criticism out. If not many people are analyzing ur log can always try again another time when other people are on
welcome to RH 😉
lone junco
You Melohan?
lone junco
i found a sin log in there.
red creek
The first half are sin
lone junco
1dd 1tc 1ss 1np 1ttk 1gutripper
lost horizon
I mean if it's simming highest for you it's fine
You can only run whatever you've got
red creek
I looked on logs and the traits are normally clumped but every now and then people have weird spreads
lone junco
none of those are trash. just unusual combo
lone junco
from there ,you are running SS and Subterfuge, so the opener for SS /subterfuge/tb is listed in the guide
bleak spoke
Gutripper’s fine just useless on aoe kinda
lost horizon
Gr is good
lost horizon
It's just not on the same tier as the other traits listed
lone junco
the 2min vanish vendetta isnt there
red creek
So the lust is planned at 2min and change
on those pulls
So I wasn't sure where to use vanish
lone junco
here is the majority of the dps loss.
bleak spoke
Yikes
red creek
I feel like I open well and then forget how to rogue
lone junco
yeah, so the grg then vanish at about 18 sec for another gg
bleak spoke
Were you energy starved
lone junco
and you missed your 3rd vendetta at 4min
bleak spoke
That looks like you popped an envenom dump before
lone junco
and just forgot about vanish
lost horizon
These are conclave pulls yeah?
red creek
@lost horizon yes
lost horizon
You're not trying to dot up the other aspect a ton are you?
red creek
I did sometimes
I didn't others
I was using 5 point ruptures on adds sometimes
then 2 point because it felt like a waste for five
lost horizon
If you put a lot into the offtarget it'll fuck your logs up
red creek
The three spikes are vendetta windows
lone junco
then vendetta vanish are tied together at 2:20-2:30 then every 2min after
yes
he probably tagged a few raptors with his vanish tbh.
red creek
That's what I was saving it for and then probably forgot about it due to the amount of mechanics I am dodging
lone junco
thats not as important as the rotation
red creek
oh, I meant to preface this with I am just coming back from WotlK
I have only been playing rogue two weeks
lost horizon
But going from doing well -> high ranks you'll need to pad properly
lone junco
tb goes before the Env
red creek
kk
red creek
I have been trying to pool energy at 3/4CPs if TB is coming off cooldown in the next 4 seconds
It's not precise yet but it's the goal
lone junco
make sure you dont garrote right before the vanish cause you wind up with a cooldown lock after vanish
lost horizon
Make sure you're also not refreshing bleeds during TB
lost horizon
Or rather than you plan it out so you don't have to refresh during TB
lone junco
yeah. the biggest thing to fix is that first vanish
lost horizon
If they drop you should refresh, but you should plan so that they don't drop during TB
red creek
Currently I plan on vanishing to garrote the other aspect with sprint step and rupture and then coming back to kill target for another garrote
lone junco
rustic ether
theres 0 reason to really be doing that though
lone junco
missing that vanish GG at opener is big
lost horizon
Don't garrote other aspect
red creek
kk
lone junco
yeah, aspect damage is completely wasted.
lost horizon
Dmg doesn't appear on logs and is irrelevant for the fight
rustic ether
the aspect that doesnt die gets healed to full
lone junco
primary aspect is important. when it dies, the others heal to full.
lone junco
red creek
kk
red creek
So opener is fine, need to vanish at the end of the first garrote into G>R>G
lone junco
rustic ether
the only time i ever hit the other aspect is when im running around doing raptors and i notice im next to the other aspect
lone junco
opener is not fine
lost horizon
If you're sitting in bird waiting for tank to bring the targetted aspect in and have CP+are coming close to capping energy... Sure rupture the healing aspect
lone junco
all the way through that vanish.
once you slide to 3dd and use MA, will need to learn the other opener.
red creek
MA?
lone junco
red creek
master assassin?
lone junco
you dont use that with ss traits though.
lost horizon
Keep in mind you don't necessarily have to do that
red creek
is taht the goal
lost horizon
If you still sim highest with SS and subt that's fine
Technically there's a lot of fights with good SS pad
lone junco
seriously. if you fix your vendetta/ vanish alignment. you will jump from grey parse to blue probably.
lost horizon
But MA is highest pure ST with the right traits
lone junco
missing the most of your burst dps.
and losing full casts of vendetta
do you have a WA tracker?
red creek
right
I do but since I am just coming back my attention is currently all over the place
lone junco
I use mizerok kit. it is very easy to see.
lost horizon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rustic ether
for sisters in WM do we use fok? i have two EB
lost horizon
I recommend making your own WAs personally, but if you don't have the time or comfort level to do that def check out these groups
red creek
so these are the other fights
lone junco
red creek
I imagine it's the same issue
lone junco
nah. until you fix the vendetta vanish, no need look at anything else.
red creek
kk
lone junco
that is a grong log. with the vanish into boss then double robot.
red creek
oh, so triple garrote
lone junco
if you can read the timeline, just follow that over and over and over.
lone junco
if it is raw ST, vanish GG is plenty.
red creek
just moving properly
kk
I am hopefully going to get some time practice and try this in heroic
Noobe/Squawkk. I really appreciate the help. Last question after I finish fixing my opener
lone junco
the next thing to make sure of, is dont delay TB
look at this timing.
the pink. like clockwork.
red creek
interesting
lone junco
that TB should be ready to go when CD is back around.
if you need E, do it before.
never mut on 4cps btw.
but can TB at 4 or even 5 if necessary
red creek
Ah, I wasn't sure on what to do at 5
civic palm
@lone junco Reminds me, did you get my latest garrote/rupture trackers? They don't do the weird leftover icon thing anymore.
red creek
How important is my gear right now? Or is it purely a rotation fucked thing?
civic palm
No, everything works other than EX. had some weird shit with tracking on one but not the other.
Nightstalker might not be in there but w/e > _>"
lone junco
@red creek if you run a raidbot sim, patchwerk 5min, you should be in the 23k range based on your ilvl. if it is like 19k your gear sucks.
Ill get it again some time. hpal main for a bit though.
civic palm
Word.
red creek
I am currently at 22.7 I think as far as DPS on 5 minute patch with raid buffs
lone junco
so you have other homework. I would run the rotation from open to 3min.
until your vendetta lines up with vanish gg at 2:20
need to set your dps meter to overall data otherwise the vanishes will drop.,
times up. afk
red creek
ty noobe
tough lantern
can you claok mekkatorques bomb so it doesn't detonate?
civic palm
No.
civic palm
Yeep
radiant flax
I imagine you can cloak and immune the dot too
civic palm
Yeah the DoT is removable, but if the BOMB is removed in any way it explodes.
balmy stump
does a fourth garrote with srhouded suffocatoin thats not empowered still reset the other ones?
tough lantern
believe they fixed that bug a long time ago
lost sentinel
Sin has best ST + overall damage?
lone junco
compared to other rogues or other classes? M+ or raid?
lone junco
outlaw can compete for overall easily. and ST some bosses. sub fell off
look at warcraft logs for a specific raid fight and you can see the top 100 healers
coarse quartz
strange python
ugh need a 400 chest to be gud
modest zodiac
nocturne gate
Depends on other trinkets i guess and what sim highest 4u^^
I have all dungeon trinkets with 400 and plume dice eyeglasses are on equal ilvl better for all speccs than leaf
mighty elm
with these statweights, would a feast benefit me more than regular haste food?
warm geode
the simulation already take count food if u didnt change
u need to look the html report to see what food he used
mighty elm
oh
warm geode
prob the agi one
hollow talon
ay bruhs if im running master ass and TB, do i TB on cooldown or save it before vanish if i got vanish coming up soon
strange python
@mighty elm I'm wondering about that too. I would assume haste food would be your best option
241,5 dps with haste food, 223 dps with 100 agi feast
warm geode
Twist the Knife or SoB is better for m+ ?
humble crane
Which variant of zand troll racial will be bis for assass and outlaw? If someone could hook a brother up with an screenshot. I'm overseas and have limited net access. Half the websites like herodamafe are blocked
vestal wren
there are no sims out yet
warm geode
anyone know good assassin rogues at m+ who use the EB build? want to look at starts and traits
neat cairn
This has probably been answered, but for azerite traits I know double dose is the bread and butter and nothing personal is a good one point wonder. but if you had to choose, what would you choose: two double doses, or one double dose and one nothing personal and then just keep going from there? Like is the point to get at least one nothing personal and then gun for double dose and treacherous (for poison build) or if it makes me choose between double dose and one nothing personal, do I pick the one nothing personal?
cobalt gyro
depends which one sims best for me
warm geode
@neat cairn well, the base for ST is simulation
some ppl with one gear can simulate SS/exsg best, others DD/tb other cases is with subterfuge others with MA, sin have alot of good builds
depends on what u have atm
neat cairn
well i hate exsan so i'm just a poison build/working with SS
languid ore
cobalt gyro
If it's that close run the one you prefer then
warm geode
isnt better stack crit ? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ft9Jxmcr2kPMDEdyQLjaKo
other thing, gutripper procs from FoK? ( on every target ) ?
bleak spoke
isn't there a cd on the proc
desert vault
@warm geode it is all about crit for m+ 1500 is a good baseline and always good to run double crit trinkets as well like dice and spyglass
I actually run a blight borne trait too cause it gives so much dang crit when it procs
warm geode
will try this build later
desert vault
I think Seliathan runs 1700 crit or so
I would swap that sob for ttk as well. 3x EB is ideal and sob is alright, but I think ttk is better
I use a 390 piece to get my triple eb traits
warm geode
humm.. will try to farm some crit socket gear best i can do without going to much on versa is this
ty for the tips
marble magnet
Is bleed physical damage
pastel vault
yes , not reduced by armor
marble magnet
Poison is nature?
pastel vault
yea
marble magnet
Pure nature?
pastel vault
yeah you can envenom a target who has bop it'll do full damage
marble magnet
Alright, thansk
summer adder
rose perch
same tbh ❤
warm geode
@desert vault second stats is better mastery or versa?
lone junco
@warm geode ay.
warm geode
?
lone junco
Nvm. Was gonna respond to something that turned out to be 5 hrs ago.
warm geode
but if uk , what is best after crit on the EB/m+ build i would apreciate
lone junco
But 10t40. Is a full cleave condition if you want to look at eb.
warm geode
k
lone junco
Haste is a dead. Pretty sure it's gonna be mastery for the ttk env and pbombs.
warm geode
the second talent of 100 line, is simming ok? saw ppl talking about but saying is not a good implementation days ago
lone junco
I don't like it. Not getting a lot of stacks and lame for st.
If you have to delay the opener cause the trash isn't gripped or stacked. You are wasting time. With 1 SS you just need 3x and go to town. Adds are fine.
HB I would try to play around the stack and delay FOK for reaping. Missing out on a ton
If like to see the damage profile of pb vs HB in a FOK env FOK env clump.
zenith notch
I have a question: Herodamage says Nothing Personal is the best trait and that I should stack 3x of it, as the gain per stack is greater than any other lone trait. Yet, SimC keeps telling me that I'd do more damage if I dump one NP trait for Treacherous Covenant.
So what's the deal with that?
real bay
trust sim not herodmg
vestal wren
sim is more accurate hence it gives you your specific situation
naive cypress
So, On ravenholdt it states that you should use Envenom on CD in the ST rotation.
So I was wondering, should you use it to keep EP uptime as high as possible, or env uptime?
Or should i just spam it on CD like it states in the guide?
devout salmon
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
devout salmon
it's weird raidbots is telling me patchwork switch to mastery main stat
naive cypress
Then you prob have very low mastery compared to the other stats so you would gain the most from upping your mastery a bit
lone junco
@naive cypress guide says to use TB on cd.
devout salmon
I have 792 mast compared to 1,200 haste is that considered low?
naive cypress
Wait, im actually
So dumb
Well, then i guess i could phrase my question in general, do i want to aim for optimal EP uptime or Env?
naive walrus
Yo lads, does Shrouded Suffocation and Nothing Personal stacks ??
naive cypress
@devout salmon If the sims says so it probly is
devout salmon
fair enough 😃 thanks
lone junco
@naive walrus np is damage from vendetta. SS is damage from garrote. You can use both traits. They don't benefit each other.
lyric knoll
Landro's Gift
naive cypress
Sure man
naive walrus
@lone junco OK, got it, but what happens when I have 2x Shrouded Suffocation or 2x Nothing Personal?
lyric knoll
I'm in the wrong chat, my bad. I'll move it.
naive walrus
@lone junco thx bro!
queen heath
@zenith notch whats your uptime option on TC when you sim? it can vary fight from fight. Should keep that in mind as well.
spare dust
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
I run 2x TTK 2x SS 2x EB and it works well
potent oracle
rupture treis is worth for mythics too ?
lone junco
not a first choice.
Fan of knives,
Garrote,
Envenom.
after that probably TC and Rupture.
potent oracle
i have 3 fok , 1 SS and 2 Twist the knife
lone junco
grats
potent oracle
its good ?
potent oracle
lol really ? nice then :3
its low gear 385 helm and 400 chest / shoulders , but i am new rogue
my other option is with full 400 gear but , 2 fok , 2 SS and 2 Twist the knife
lone junco
SS will work well in low counts like 1target to 3targets. EB works well with like 8+ targets. if you are pulling big use 3EB. if you are pulling 1 pack at a time, the ss is stronger.
2/2/2 is fine.
3/1/2 is fine
just aim for 30%+ crit and low haste
with crit trinkets
lone junco
yes
potent oracle
perfect
lone junco
m+ is crit mastery. raid is haste crit/mastery
this stuff is in the guide
SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ FAQ IN PINS-->
civic palm
Mastery pushes higher than Crit with stacks of Nothing Personal, so make sure to get your weights before investing in gems/etc. for raiding
lone junco
it NP poison dmg?
golden relic
Yes
civic palm
Probably best to enchant 1 mastery if it's been a while since you checked
potent oracle
3 dd , 1 np , 1 pact and 1 engienering treit is good for raid ?
naive walrus
does Shiv applys all poisions or only one Im using ?
heavy skiff
All
naive walrus
so if Im correct, not only deadly poison applied to weapons but also wound ?
solar quarry
quick question for sin do you guys use battle potion of agi or bursting blood for mythic BoD
hollow stone
Agi
solar quarry
ty
spring stag
hey guys - i cant decide if assa or outlaw.... :P
are there some affix better for assa and some for outlaw?
pulsar goblet
Sin all day
twilit ledge
outlaw is better for reaping but is random on good damage output or not
sin is more reliable and consistent dmg
pulsar goblet
Sin can do just as much on reaping
spring stag
and sub is not worth for m+ right?
heady loom
Are people running Sin over Outlaw in BoD? I'm in the process of rerolling from feral, currently 115
twilit ledge
i play sin over outlaw yes
heady loom
Seems like people are only going outlaw for 2-3 bosses
twilit ledge
outlaw for opulence but thats about it for me
bleak spoke
Sin better this week for higher keys because you never stop blasting
In dungeons where you don’t need gouge really badly
cobalt gyro
Triple eb and a blightborne fucking pumps so
bleak spoke
Wait gorak tul’s has the choice of eb on the outer ring?
Holllll up
when i get on the tournament realm i'm gonna grab a gear setup with 3 EB 1 SS Blightborne and Swirling Sands with full vers crit gear + oscillator spyglass :^)
and see how giga the giga pad is
cobalt gyro
i was at 80% crit a few times
strange python
im kinda confused on how to pair vend and vanish
rigid mango
Do you use ma or sub?
strange python
MA
strange python
so during the opener i typically g m r then is it vend tb vanish
rigid mango
Vanish before tb iirc
strange python
ah i see
so first 3 globals out of stealth should be tb > mut > env, since all 3 may crit
rigid mango
Yep
strange python
ight awesome ill keep that in mind
rigid mango
Yep, and if tb lines up with the other two your burst is insane
strange python
it was just weird using tb while vanished haha
so id basically vanish > mut > tb > env if i crit
rigid mango
Yeat I get that, but yeah
strange python
i suppose its the same shit tbh
rigid mango
If tb crits you're a happy lad
rigid mango
Well if everything works out you'll be doing mut -> env a decent amount there
strange python
yeah due to energy not being spammed
ive gotten 4 envenoms in a tb window before, it was lovely
rigid mango
With vendetta + tb dmg your burst is just nutty
strange python
true that
rigid mango
One thing I'm interested in is if it's ever worth to hold tb to line up with vanish + vend when running ma or if it's still better using on cd
rigid mango
That's if you've insta pressed it first gcd every time it's off cd
strange python
yeah i usually always get 3 in tb windows if i pool properly
rigid mango
Yeah, just wondering if it's worth to hold tb for like what, 5 sec for it to align with major cd's
honest needle
this is my current gear i need to get a new 415 random piece my last chest i got was awful but what piece do u guys think i should aim for for my new 415 random
any ideas ?
strange python
chest imo
bleak spoke
No I mean @rigid mango
vague patrol
almost definitely shoulders
honest needle
dont i have good traits
the current ones im using for singlt target for raid
and i use 3 ss for m+
bleak spoke
You do but ilevel is important
honest needle
what chest should i use then ?
bleak spoke
The venture co one
vague patrol
the 415
bleak spoke
Not optimal but I’ve had 99s with it
vague patrol
that chest is rly good for outlaw iirc too
honest needle
what pieces do i want from raid
wat bosses
cause i thought rolling for a shoulders would give me a low chance
I thought i was gonna have to go chest again
bleak spoke
Champions jadefire
And mekka has good chest
For m+ if you play toxic funnel it’s opulence conclave rasta
There’s more precise options from vendor but raid azerite is easier to work towards especially if you have a guild to trade you stuff
honest needle
so u think i should def try to roll shoulders ?
bleak spoke
Yes
honest needle
what r my vchanes of getting good ones
bleak spoke
If you’re not raiding mythic you should try to pug champions
Uhh lemme see
5 of the shoulders are good
3 of them for raid 3 for m+
dense delta
you guys have crit/mast enchant on daggers?
bleak spoke
1 of the shoulders is dogshit for literally all uses
strange python
depends on sims
bleak spoke
i enchant haste mastery for raid and crit mastery for m+
strange python
but ye, i'm running haste on mh, mast on oh
near pilot
i don't have the sims to share but i was def simming higher with a 390 proper trait pieces over 415 any trait
bleak spoke
i dont' think i've seen an ST sim that doesn't have quick nav as best option
whether the other ench is crit or mastery depends on gear/traits
strange python
yeah ive got a mix of crit gems and haste/mast enchants
bleak spoke
if i could run 0% haste in m+ i would
dense delta
😄
bleak spoke
well thats' not true sometimes
honest needle
really
bleak spoke
for raid yeh
honest needle
what traits do i want
cobalt gyro
DD/NP for raid is pog
bleak spoke
double dose on outer, ppl like either np or blightborne if they have 2 np already
honest needle
is it good for m+ as well
bleak spoke
but 3 DD 3 NP is incredible burst in vendetta
bleak spoke
yeah you can play SS Blightborne with 2 fok traits on helm and chest
strange python
currently striking out on chest, running a shit 385 one atm
honest needle
is the gorak tul mantle good for m+ as well it has ss
strange python
im running dd/np on mantle personally
bleak spoke
welcome to my world, where reforge costs slowly outpace your sanity
strange python
^
cobalt gyro
blightborne/ss is good
strange python
im up to 10k atm
cobalt gyro
wouldn't say it's bis for m+ but it's definitely a good piece
blightborne has big value
honest needle
its like a top 2 piece for shouldrs for m+
bleak spoke
i'd say if you don't have enough crit on gear nothing beats blightborne
depends on your other azerite
honest needle
i have 21 crit
bleak spoke
that's not enough
i have 30 and that's not enough
i could have 35 and that's still less than ideal tbh
honest needle
this is my new gear im using for raid what should i use for m+ https://gyazo.com/a59c513327291a7308693e8561df9e03
cobalt gyro
@bleak spoke https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nFShKvbxZff4F9t5riaYcJ my traits for m+ are pog
honest needle
ill try it
honest needle
what pieces u think i should use for m+
bleak spoke
worst part is
i believe it
i believe nothing sims better
i hate that
asdoijfoiadsjofjasodifji
cobalt gyro
nothing sims better except a 415 version of it (^:
bleak spoke
can you even get a 415 of that
cobalt gyro
no
strange python
think 3ttk/3ss would be okayish in m+?
cobalt gyro
you'd lack massively in aoe
bleak spoke
i'd play crown with ttk ss, shoulders with blightborne ss and conclave with eb ss with exsang in m+ if i were you @honest needle and try to get a helm with eb
i think you have to play at least 1 EB unless you're playing with unholy outlaw
or unholy frost or something
cobalt gyro
EB gets insane at the 3rd stack tbh
bleak spoke
there's a difference between non really padding on reaps and being a liability on reaps
and the difference is probably at least 1 EB
strange python
so atm, i could only run 3x ss, 2x ttk and eb.
ideal would be swapping those 2x ttk for eb yes?
strange python
oh, is it really?
bleak spoke
i'd swap 1 or more SS for either ttk or eb
strange python
ah fair
bleak spoke
cuz ttk is our prio dmg in aoe and eb is our aoe
strange python
makes sense yeah
honest needle
@bleak spoke do i have decent pieces for m+ or not really ?
cobalt gyro
missing out on SS > missing out on EB
bleak spoke
you need more echoing blades but it's fine
assa in m+ you need certain traits but it's literally all execution beyond that
gray saddle
if im running echo blades and twisted knife in m+ should I swap to Master Assassin?
cobalt gyro
SS and subt are both very strong
bleak spoke
you need to put out the garrotes for energy regen and to bank combo points
gray saddle
1 scent
bleak spoke
yeh was gonna say even without ss i might run ss anyway
just that if i didn't have an ss i would be pretty mad playing assa in m+ as a rule
cobalt gyro
ya
bleak spoke
err, i might run subt* anyway
the MA eb is actually just a huge meme
cuz vanish is on too long a cd
if our vanish had cdr like outlaw maybe
but then that would make ss even stronger
cobalt gyro
SS would probably look like wits on sims if that was the case
bleak spoke
god can you imagine being able to have empowered garrotes on ST based on finisher output
and legit silencebot in aoe
EXCEPT YOUR SILENCE IS A 130K GLOBAL
cobalt gyro
imagine 2 vanishes a trash pack
bleak spoke
alliancescum.jpg
cobalt gyro
it's kinda crazy how much garrote does with subt/ss tbh
civic palm
rerollorparish
bleak spoke
man how does playing nelf in m+ feel tho odowla
bleak spoke
wat
civic palm
Feels6Garrotes
bleak spoke
urrrrr trollllllling
bleak spoke
zoinks scoobs
cobalt gyro
i went Velf for g'huun prog originally
civic palm
makeSense.
bleak spoke
at that point do you honestly just garrote instead of rupture and only use rupture to snipe energy and run higher haste
like as a nelf
civic palm
atm EB is too strong to be fucking around with 120 garrotes.
cobalt gyro
EB is my 2nd highest damage source
civic palm
Yeah just like everyone else.
strange python
never run out of energy
bleak spoke
yeh i guess you don't get EP from garrote anyway
civic palm
EB is much much too powerful.
cobalt gyro
now imagine
bleak spoke
and EP on echoes is too good