the big tall scary ladies
#assassination
rustic ether
drifting cloud
just go in on m0 its really easy to see 😛
desert vault
yeah the giant add with the cleave?
drifting cloud
not sure if its random every time or depends on the week
desert vault
right, well there is one side with just one and other side has two correct?
desert vault
right, just the mask and 2/3 other adds
cobalt gyro
you don't want to pull the pack with the 2 + the mask pack, pretty much ever
that will be a wipe
rustic ether
yeah that side is basically just a depleted key
ripe nimbus
another day of jaina prog, kill me now someone
rustic ether
at least you didnt have to prog on conclave only to not get chest
ripe nimbus
thanks. ur a tru frand
civic palm
np bud I gotcha
warm harbor
Hey anyone here done M Jaina?
bleak spoke
what's best % atm critizin
calm depot
is it worth dotting the other conclave boss thats active for the energy?
warm harbor
@calm depot 99% of the time its too far away from the other boss to be worth it, only time to maybe consider it is during the storms
calm depot
k cool, my numbers are still bad but are definitely better now with your advice from the other day btw, thanks for the help
runic flicker
Hey! is there a graph anywhere showing which traits do better against others?
im curious if traits like incite the pack would ever beat out scent
lost horizon
mystic charm
the 8.1.5 changes to garrote, is it considered a buff or nerf ?
civic palm
Nothing about Garrote is changing.
mystic charm
oh, guess, they just changed the description on shrroud suffocation
cobalt gyro
making it more clear.
civic palm
Yeah new wording.
mystic charm
👌
halcyon tulip
when your envenom doesn't crit during master assassin window https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PdXIHGvMpk
strange python
yall fit 3 globals in MA window? if so, with what haste
drifting cloud
strange python
talking in the opener, maybe its getting buffed and i dont catch it
rustic ether
eh?
strange python
i have a buff tracker, and i think im staring at it too much
rustic ether
yeah dont worry about the buff
when youre in stealth, the first global you use also benefits form it
civic palm
Yeah just don't take 1.5s to cast everything and you will be fine.
strange python
ah okay, yeah i just won't pay attention to it then
im spamming shit otherwise in those 3 seconds hehe
rustic ether
just gotta get in sync with your GCD
civic palm
This is why I track it 👌
rustic ether
tried outlaw again. just doesnt feel fun. just feel confused and worried about my rolls the entire time. still doing good dps though so you know theres a problem lol
royal lantern
Its always a good sing when people dont like the gamaeplay/dont have a clue wath they are doing but do great dps anyway
That truly shows you that a spec is probalby not slightly overtuned right now
humble flare
what's better to go 3 NP or 2 NP/1 TC?
tacit lance
According to herodmg the 3rd NP is worth quite a bit more than the 2nd. 
to get the correct answer though @humble flare
real bay
only way to find out is sim, can't trust herodmg
2nd and 3rd NP are exactly the same
depends what you have
rugged jetty
who all is going zandalari ?
grizzled jay
I'm going Thiccboi
real bay
Thicc human
rugged jetty
yea if i could i would they op il give it to you
real bay
death by snoo snoo
bronze kelp
goin zandalari 😃
winter moss
hit me up if someone got informations on simming new races
lament dove
I probably go zandalari, I was always was into trolls, but don't like the hunchback
winter moss
and other question. what kind of mastery lvls do we need to hit to make MP viable again, or does this belong to #tc-research ?
bronze kelp
meh... I hate the point where you only can get upgrades from TF proccs :/
lament dove
well, I would say brutal levels
if you think about it, MP only gives dmg to weapon poisons, check in dmg meter how much your dmg is DP
bronze kelp
the legion poison build was nice with 220% mastery ^^ but i dont miss it too much
winter moss
brutal levels is no exact answer, compared to legion, stat scaling isnt that fast paced. so im kinda curious
i mean with every new tier and HoA level stat's increase so there could be somewhat asian lvl math if we hit this points
just hate EP tho
lament dove
I don't know:) but EP gives 10% to all dmg, and is up, what, 60% of the time? so if MP gives more damage to your DP than 6% of all of your dmg, than it gets better from there... like never? dunno
mastery change at the beginning of BfA killed MP pretty much imho
winter moss
no way to doubt that. but at the start of legion we had what? 110% mast?
so we arent that far away compared to where we went at the end
i mean 230% mast
lament dove
you have every right to doubt that, I'm not a theorycrafter, I'm just applying my peasant logic:P
bleak spoke
hopefully the gap never closes
winter moss
vestal wren
EP is to dominant so you wont go away from it in t15
winter moss
probably
vestal wren
blindside needs a change/buff to be strong in that tier
winter moss
it would be a huge diffrence if the proccs gave 2cp instead of 1
but then it would be just a freecast mutilate
vestal wren
blindside's big issue is that it does not interact with other talents/azerite well
i think having it as viable talent would make the rotation slightly more engaging on pure st
winter moss
it sure would. but the damage isnt that great and as you said. absolutly no synergy with other things
but i cant come up with something that would make it worth picking
grizzled jay
Less engaging and more dps or less dps and more engaging kappa
winter moss
atleast it should be worthy to press the button outside of proccs
cobalt gyro
Blindside also does less damage than mutilate even in full execute
vestal wren
yes thats why it needs a buff/change to be relevant
winter moss
do the hunter thing
125% buff and ignore armor
incl dot
that bleeds for 5 secs like internal
winter moss
gonna try it for sure
rolled mm on alt but that's something for hunter discord i guess
but wouldnt i make bindside viable if the hit itself ignores armor and puts a bleed on it
with a slight dmg buff
vestal wren
i saw somone saying his profile got ~6% buff only by improving values to ignore armor
winter moss
the mainproblem of BM always will be stat scaling
vestal wren
i mean bm is one of the most popular secs in the game
winter moss
because hati was love
vestal wren
and that while beeing bottom of the wcl statistics
winter moss
well let the patch hit and bm will be middleclass again
vestal wren
(not like subtlety thats just right above it but has essentially 0% players)
winter moss
even tho the spec is on the bottom right now, but it's mobility makes it so incredibly viable
vestal wren
it has low skill celling (this means you do good damage even if you dont know what you do)
and unlimited mobility (dont lose damage for doing mechanics)
winter moss
to be fair most of the specs dont have a high skill requirement to do decent amount of DPS
vestal wren
idk how much of a buff the hunter stuff is, but if its ~5% bm is still not middle of the pack
the majority of specs have a low skill requirement in bfa
vestal wren
some are just very straight forward (anyone dh here?)
winter moss
straight forward isnt always bad
lament dove
the "problem" with closing the MP gap is that even if you get more mastery, it will also influence the dmg of your bleeds as well, also your envenom dmg, which is influenced by EP:) so even if it seems close, it might be farther than it looks
winter moss
but youll hit a wall of i cant get better very soon on DH
which makes it kinda meh to play
vestal wren
DH is brutal
winter moss
in what regards?
vestal wren
they have the lowest dps variance in the game
its a bit of a rant, but they have infinite mobility, insane utility, strong burst, easy gameplay, low variance, high tuning
winter moss
you can achieve that very easily and then there is nothing above
vague patrol
is outlaw #1
vestal wren
havoc is the strongest melee class with a decent amount of players atm
vestal wren
outlaw is good, but outlaw is not that great on st
scarlet wing
No burst jaina
vestal wren
also besides outlaw beeing slightly op in m+ dh is still on ~10% play rate compared to outlaw wich ~6% in m+ (15+)
vague patrol
yeah outlaw has bad burst, overall ST is pretty good tho
vestal wren
i still think outlaw's biggest issue is pure st
vague patrol
on pure ST patchwerk 5 mins i sim the same outlaw vs sin with similar gear
just different dmg patterns and obv higher variance for outlaw
real bay
rework rtb, blizz pls
vestal wren
for balance i would like to see BF beeing tuned down slightly but st beeing buffed to compensate.
But knowing blizz would fuck that up i would say let it like it is
vast forum
Outlaw is in a good spot atm
scarlet wing
Nö rework sub to Legion sub
vast forum
I'd just like an actual dmg cd for outlaw
vestal wren
sin is still the spec with the least issues
vague patrol
the variance for outlaw is a bigger issue than its pure ST dmg imo
scarlet wing
Fuu which anime is that?
vestal wren
good question i have no clue its just a random image i liked
scarlet wing
Oh ok. Nice one
vestal wren
image search engine points towards https://x.lihkg.com as source of it, i assume its a fanart
https://na.cx/i/oezRwJq.jpg is the picture
winter moss
what i kinda hate rn is that you are almost forced to play outloa, even tho sin is on a similar level m+ wise
sullen pagoda
Sin is good in some dungeons but its not outlaw lvl
vestal wren
its quite relateable, ppl see how outlaw peforms in lower keys so them wanting that spec is relevant
you cant blame ppl for doing that hence wow never had a great community to begin with
sullen pagoda
but outlaw is best in high keys too by good margin, even seen Ashine i think it was start playing outlaw in KR too the dungeon that assa was basically made for
just for raw output
vestal wren
outlaw gets insanely high on the seasonal affix mobs
but i would lable them more towards irrelevant
sullen pagoda
I wouldn't call it irrelevant especially if u chain pull it in next pack which any group pushing will do
steep obsidian
im fkn sick of respeccing azurite
i refuse to get it up to thousands and thousands
then again i dont really pug keys or do stupid high ones so sin is fine
lethal heart
assa is most likely go to spec in temple/kings rest/underrot
vestal wren
oh ye, assuming chain pulls outlaw def. has an edge there
lethal heart
especially underrot @marble hemlock is as hig on overall as me meaning assa is better
because he has reliable damage + he can target his damage better than me
vestal wren
i thought we talk about pugs, and i rarely see tanks chain pull there
steep obsidian
kings rest ewww
lethal heart
kings rest assa most likely aswell
only place where outlaw 'shines' is blobs
and thats
mots useless trash xd
steep obsidian
i actually have decent traits for outlaw it actually isnt even taht ar behind my sim for sin but yeah like i said
sullen pagoda
just loot more azerites 4head
lethal heart
and its not like assa will suddenly make you get extra 5 minutes in the dungeon
it's small
steep obsidian
the ww in my guild is trying to get a bis shoulder from token
lethal heart
within the range of your rolls rng tbh
steep obsidian
he got the same shoulder 3 x now
so he could have just saved for the specific one
and go it almost by now
sullen pagoda
saving for specific is bad
lament dove
if you take into consideration offspec and raid/m+ almost all of them are usable
steep obsidian
and there isnt a shoulder with the best traits in raid
lament dove
yeah, I'm talking raiding with a 390 shoulder, lol
steep obsidian
but yeah azurite system just seems to be designed to frustrate and annoy you
its not fun
i mean some of the little perks and buffs are ok espec the ones that change your rotation but the rest is garb
worldly iron
imagine getting locked out of your spec for not getting lucky with azerite drops 
lethal heart
blizzard
winter moss
sebek how many sets you have for m+?
polar tapir
i finally got two pieces that are useful for sin m+, flashpowder hood and rasta shoulders mythic
still need a chest that's better than NP/DD + SS tho
polar tapir
what's your sin setup tho?
lethal heart
idk some combination of eb/ttk/shrouded
lethal heart
then dont use it
vague patrol
i dont
lethal heart
good for you
vague patrol
thanks
winter moss
@lethal heart how many DS traits do you ahve
lethal heart
you mean deadshot? i have 3
vast forum
Not being sold on the obviously amazing prio target dmg choice 
winter moss
vast forum
Overall dmg 
winter moss
overall != timesave
vast forum
I'm pretty sure you don't have to tell that to sebek
steep obsidian
good luck explaining that to most people
lethal heart
^
bronze kelp
yep but also lower overall != timesave
lethal heart
pretty much that
you just need to be smart about checking damage done to specific targets
winter moss
im not saying that to sebek
lethal heart
which is hard sometimes
bronze kelp
sure sure
steep obsidian
what? if i have a 5m hp mob and a bunch of 2m hp mobs the pack ends when the 5m hp mob dies right? dunny why that is hard to graps
winter moss
matron in waycrest 
vast forum
Given that most high m+ grps do reaping with bosses, prio dmg is actually insanely important atm
lethal heart
its exactly the same as any boss add fight though
bronze kelp
but at the moment everyone spreads this high overall != timesave thing! so I had already people playing shitty do no dmg and come with exactly that argument ^^
lethal heart
idk any random boss fight with useless add
steep obsidian
some packs therea re fucked up dangerous mobs and others that do jack too i guess
vague patrol
@steep obsidian if you never chain then sure
lethal heart
people do reaping with bosses/other trash in general because playign reaping alone is time loss
reaping alone usually isnt that dangerous
winter moss
^
lethal heart
there are some exceptions shrine notably
steep obsidian
its the same rationale where people used to play sub although that was extreme
bronze kelp
jep depends on the kind of reaping wave too many casters are terrible
vague patrol
how valuable prio dmg is just depends on comp and how you pull (and obv on dungeon)
steep obsidian
you didnt play sub for amazing aoe you played it for prio damage
lethal heart
thats true
bronze kelp
jep
steep obsidian
ahuh
vague patrol
depends on dungeon
winter moss
since when
vague patrol
in something like freehold or UR where most mobs all have similar hp
not really any such thing as enough aoe
bronze kelp
sebek and casuall ^^
marble hemlock
youre not casual seb 😦
lethal heart
i'm
bronze kelp
not really
winter moss
seb is also giga rogue
sullen pagoda
ye hes quiting raiding
lethal heart
^
marble hemlock
no youre not 
winter moss
^
marble hemlock
become giga poe streamer
winter moss
become a twitch thot
lethal heart
i just copy what other people do in poe 😄
bronze kelp
you are still a very high skilled player
lethal heart
ye i do it soemtimes
winter moss
i noticed but only when you pass by
marble hemlock
only when they actually live long enough
lethal heart
when boss is conveniantly placed
there is one timing
where you can dot balista that is about to die/or will die quickly
marble hemlock
i rupture +vanish garrote 2nd ballista, and step to boss for subter garrote there as well
lethal heart
and i play around that
but tahts my guild thing probably
because i get energy refill just before tb window
marble hemlock
and then i generally see if its worth dotting another one ~5sec before TB comes up
harsh sphinx
been doing 2/2/2 ttk build and it feels great on a lot of dungeons
marble hemlock
dont worry about a thing
you will be given a rope, 1 bullet, and a cyanide capsule free of charge
winter moss
lethal heart
marble hemlock
wdym
my mic wasnt working 2nd half of the raid yday
so no one heard me call for backup interrupt
😦
harsh sphinx
i thought you where just pissed jaina prog in silence lol
marble hemlock
easiest 8% wipe of our life
nah
i was talking all the time
had like 10 questions i answered, but apparently mic wasnt transmitting
harsh sphinx
lol
lethal heart
we had
winter moss
also thought you were like gig mad
marble hemlock
didnt notice
cause whenever i said something, someone replied in raid with something related to what i said
marble hemlock
😦
marble hemlock
just kill it sunday
as i told you yday
dont come and play your best for the people that fuck up
do it for the ones that dont, that are in the same boat as you
winter moss
just bring her life to 5% and keep your life above 5% 
lethal heart
i can keep my life above 99 all the time 
winter moss
rogue life is great
lethal heart
@marble hemlock do i respec azerite to outla wor i play sub today 
project sub failed on jaina
marble hemlock
why did it fail?
lethal heart
tried like 3 pulls
meh
triple dance + symbols with close to 100% uptimeo n wall
and i did
as much damage as i do as assa on average pull anyawy
and outlaw does more anyawy
coz you can get good roll and have ar
marble hemlock
well yeah
lethal heart
was suprised
marble hemlock
if youre an overgeared rat you do
marble hemlock
give me some of that gear
winter moss
winter moss
marble hemlock
245 :<
harsh sphinx
how many sockets with all those tidalcores
lethal heart
8 in outla wgear
marble hemlock
as i said
lethal heart
ye 8 aswell in assa
marble hemlock
i hate you
lethal heart
only 7 as sub 
lethal heart
actually i can afford to play sub/outlaw in m+
cant afford to play assa
for sub/outlaw i need to respec only 1 item xd
harsh sphinx
my m+ assa and raid sets overlap with outlaw feels reforge
warm canopy
There’s a bug on mythic Jaina for rogues using cloak in the last phase. Not sure it’s been mentioned
Take zero damage from chilling touch
marble hemlock
theres a fine line between bug and exploits, and the jaina-thing is way over the line and clearly an exploit, so id suggest not using it
summer adder
true
warm canopy
I tried it last night on our third kill and it’s pretty busted
Seen logs of people running triple rogues and all using it
bronze kelp
be careful with using such things
lethal heart
so i can stop playing this garbage game
bronze kelp
no exploit is worth a ban
warm canopy
Not sure what you mean. I just used cloak so I didn’t die kappa
marble hemlock
id say at this stage a lot of people dont really care about getting banned, and would rather just kill the damn boss
lethal heart
you might get punished
wont even get banned most likely
and kill wont be taken away
anyway
marble hemlock
probably just invalidating the kill
lethal heart
rofl
bronze kelp
maybe
marble hemlock
handing out a few temp bans to the people who did it first
bronze kelp
possible
warm canopy
Doubtful
lethal heart
i mean the na guild that did it first (publicly)
bronze kelp
but on blizz u never know how they react
lethal heart
wasnt even vague about it
they released kill vid with rogue pov
and public lgoged
there were guilds
that did it before them
warm canopy
At least I waited for our third kill
lethal heart
for SURE
warm canopy
Just makes farm easier lol
marble hemlock
well yeah, because blizz is very inconsistent
when it comes to punishing exploits
bronze kelp
blizz loves RNG in every situation
marble hemlock
stop trolling tisu
spice surge
Its mostly due to how much shit reddit/forums stew up
lethal heart
xddd
spice surge
If people are angry about it
marble hemlock
its not even funny 😦
spice surge
Blizz does something
solid nova
lethal heart
average
marble hemlock
its pretty simple really
warm canopy
If you’re wiping chances are it’s nothing to do with exploit. Just playing bad
lethal heart
they're just pepegas
marble hemlock
first time someone abuses an exploit to get themselves an advantage
permban their asses to oblivion
so people wont ask themselves the next time an exploit creeps up, whether its worth "maybe getting a tempban"
you mean using cloak at the moment you are the least likely t o ever actually need it?
lethal heart
i'm guessing how someone found it out
marble hemlock
youre clearly doing it on purpose, to negate a mechanic youre not supposed to negate
lethal heart
accidentaly
because you wanted to kick add
and you werent in grp
so you just panick used cloak
thats how they found it out
probably
and then
just connect dots
marble hemlock
shitty code doesnt excuse you taking advantage of them any less than shitty laws excuse you to take advantage of them
marble hemlock
obviously its pepega code yet again
but i always just ask myself
is it something that might happen on accident
more than once
it clearly isnt
marble hemlock
its like the suramar WQ bug we had in legion
where the WQ rolled again and again for giga AP
do it once? sure
do it twice? well, maybe you thought it just respawned
bronze kelp
this "shitty coded, so im allowed to"-thing is nonsense
marble hemlock
do it 5times? at that point you know its not supposed to work like that, and youre taking advantage of it
spice surge
Thats the trick though, doing it 5-10 times was the sweetspot
Getting AP but no getting banned
marble hemlock
well yeah, thats the problem really
echo cargo
4head people calling cloaking a debuff an exploit
lethal heart
what about island bug
spice surge
Yeah indeed
marble hemlock
blizzard is way too lenient, so people always do it a handful of times and then play dumb
lethal heart
where people got 50k/island
and suddenly
everyone started logging to do islands
😄
noone got punished
for that
marble hemlock
idk, island stuff was quick
same as darkshore worldboss
weird that no bans were handed out for those who abused the shit out of it
spice surge
Island stuff was also fixed within like 30min
minor bay
Seli, does the SS changes in 8.1.5 change anything?
bronze kelp
which change ?
marble hemlock
ss changes?
spice surge
No
minor bay
Shrouded Suffocation Garrote cast from Stealth generates 2 additional Combo Points and deals [210 * (1.27 * (1 + Versatility) * 1.14)] additional damage every 2 sec for 18 sec.
last part
bronze kelp
they just adjusted the tooltip right ?
spice surge
It just makes the tooltip actually reflect what it does
minor bay
aight cool
marble hemlock
tooltip fix
minor bay
got scared
echo cargo
Why would I be trolling
bronze kelp
^^
echo cargo
?
marble hemlock
still not an accurate tooltip btw
says 18sec
pandemic garrote is more than 18 😃
spice surge
Well, cant win em all i guess
marble hemlock
also still doesnt include mastery value
warm canopy
It’s like kicking a frost elemental so it never casts the spell at 100 energy.
Shit code
echo cargo
I just don't see it as an exploit, that's all.
echo cargo
It's one thing if you're specifically looking for ways to avoid game mechanics
but if you're doing something naturally and discover it's broken
marble hemlock
and shit at playing their own game, because everyone knew that the nova wasnt working how it was supposed to on heroic already
its not natural
which is why tisu said youre talking out of your ass
because if you actually knew what you had to do to make that bug work, you knew how unnatural it is to use cloak at that exact time
and why we consider it an exploit
inb4 "just my opinion"
marble hemlock
about as natural as accidentally missing arthas with a saronite bomb in a phase where hes immune to damage to accidentally respawn the outer ring of the platform
fuu is typing an essay
vestal wren
not rly
vague oyster
Well the first one that did it, was probably by accident?
echo cargo
i just feel like the onus is on the developer and not the player in circumstances where debuffs aren't working or pets aren't taking damage, etc
especially in an environment that's competitive
vague oyster
I mean someone needed to miss the saronite bomb first right
Just like someone used the cloak at that time and noticed they didn't take any damage
echo cargo
^ literally that
vestal wren
blizz is not consistant with calling stuff bug/exploit/clever use of game mechanics.
Only obviouse harmfull stuff is usually labled as bannable or exploit, and even there blizz partly says its clever use of game mechanics.
So i guess blaming others for calling it w/e is just beeing ignorant.
besides, if there is a urge need to call each other names move it to #off-topic .
marble hemlock
as i said earlier, the differnece is between using cloak in a moment where it makes sense, and using it in a moment where it makes the least sense to cloak in the entire fight
vast forum
It's the age old argument of "the bank left their vault door open so i walked in and took everything, i shouldn't go to jail"
lethal heart
simple as that
marble hemlock
and fuu definitely is right about blizz never really drawing the line themselves
vestal wren
i personally would also lable it towards exploit, however i dont rly think its a big issue
marble hemlock
not sure if they want the community to do it themselves and then they just act as the justices or smth, idk
idk, not taking 1.3mil damage over a period of less than 2 minutes
is pretty damn big
individually, sure, but if you have 2 or 3 rogues in the raid, youre cutting raid-damage by a huge margin
vast forum
Helps a lot if a disc priest has to put out 3 less atonements
warm canopy
Having 2-3 rogues using it will not decide if you kill Jaina
If you’re wiping to healing your healers are shit
vestal wren
gear lvl's are high enough to make the impact rather low
if it was for the earlier kills i would agree, its rly harmfull
vast forum
I don't think it's about harm done, but the principle of exploiting
warm canopy
So is the elemental lol
vestal wren
blizz had to make a call there
either make ppl play the tactic and make methods effort useless
lethal heart
ITS LIKE mythrax meme spot
vestal wren
or keep it in
spice surge
If method didnt stream, they would've changed it 100%
lethal heart
where do they say
come out and say
'its not how its supposed to be, we fix'
mythrax thing
was feature
for entire tier
😃
even though was clearly unintended
vestal wren
there are tons of "exploits" esp. in the recent raids
but it comes down to what you lable as such
marble hemlock
so at what point do we call a guild exploiting the boss? stacking 5 rogues and abusing the bug? 6? 7?
vestal wren
oh, i did not say its not an exploit
rather discussed about how harmfull it is in the end
marble hemlock
its hypocritical to say "its not that impactful" just because its only a handful of players, when i can tell you right now that the people with that stance will consider it one the moment a guild abuses it by stacking rogues on purpose
thats why i feel the policy should be zero tolerance
not "ahh, its not that impactful, lets let it slide"
vast forum
I agree with zero tolerance
marble hemlock
i tried it 3 times yday, i got it every try, it felt cheap and stupid since its a moment i would never ever use cloak if it werent for abusing the bug, so i stopped doing it
if i were to get banned for doing it those 3 tries, id understand
id be angry, sure, but id get it, cause i did it at my own risk, and its kinda saddening to see how many major bug-abuses and exploits have been handled with almost no punishment
vast forum
If blizz had balls and wasn't a pr machine, they should just make an official stance of "abusing anything obviously unintended is a ban"
marble hemlock
sell boosts for real money? have a permban, oh and you can just buy wow again for 20€ and even keep all your pets and achievements
vestal wren
they have that stance
vast forum
They obviously don't
vestal wren
but they are inconsistent with what they judge as exploit
vast forum
They pretend to have it
echo cargo
Well they say they do lol
marble hemlock
yeah right
vestal wren
as somone mentioned earlier, the magic stone is def. a exploit and none of the guilds using it got a ban
lethal heart
till they fix
marble hemlock
thats why well-known RMT boosters are still competing in tournaments 😃
lethal heart
or were explicitly said
lethal heart
to not do it
vast forum
I think rmt is less of an issue than abusing bugs
marble hemlock
id agree, but my opinion isnt what matters, blizzard "supposed" stance on RMT is
which, supposedly, is zero tolerance 😃
vast forum
Rmt requires a group of competent people to help an incompetent one. Boosting a full pepega in 3s to glad isn't easy
marble hemlock
member when gw2 came out and people abused the vendors to buy shit for tokens and sell it for gold? they hit everyone who did it with a permban, no questions asked, and i feel that thats the right approach to make people really think about whether they want to abuse the next exploit thats around the corner
vast forum
Agreed
marble hemlock
atleast you know what the punishment is
in any case
outlaw drools, assa rules
@ruby idol
what dungeons you feel outlaw is significantly better than assa/sub? feels to me like its really only atal and waycrest
pliant nest
Wasnt sub removed from the game or something?
harsh sphinx
TD mbe? shit's always buggy in there for me though
marble hemlock
idk, td is such a cannon-meme that i feel it hardly matters what you play in there
as long as you have enough aoe for ticks on 1st boss, what does the outlaw really do in TD?
that other specs dont
harsh sphinx
ya that's pretty much it figure DH mage etc would be more than enough
harsh sphinx
when you do shrine with dh/lock if you have does the lock switch to his interrupt pet for the far add then switch back?
night vale
does anyone know at what number of mobs it becomes worth to just spam FoK and not cast any finishers in m+ ? (with 3xEB)
pliant nest
I think you should keep using envenom to keep the buff up (and EB)
EB being elaborate planning
strange python
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
night vale
idk, on reaping packs, i just 3xGarotte and 3xRupture... then just spam FoK without finisher
and do close to 200k
so its deffo worth at some number of targets
i just dont know the number
winter gale
@night vale wich traits u use? I play 3 xss 2xsob and 1xeb. Should I play same way as u do?
night vale
i mean i REALLY like Echoing Blades, doing a lot of overall dps recently with it... like 37k overall on Ataldazr +15 yesterday
which is a lot higher than when i played without it
.
rough thunder
I tried tempest, it isn't better than poison thingy
Or i don't succeed to put it in my rotation
night vale
i also prefer pb for m+
rough thunder
But yea EB is like priority this week lol
marble hemlock
tbf
most groups run 2 aoe classes already
if that affli was a DH instead, you wouldnt have hit 37k, so its a bit deceiving
rough thunder
you can hit 37k easily and even more
real bay
wadu hek
marble hemlock
well yeah, i hit 50k in a shrine during sanguine when the blobs were healing up for like 2minutes straight and the entire run was a meme
marble hemlock
it never was anything but great
rough thunder
it isn't as broken as season 1
marble hemlock
but yeah, EB is definitely a fairly straightforward way to boost your aoe, if thats what you need
idk, only time assa was broken was during the ~12hrs of pre-nerf EB
rough thunder
wasn't playing at this time idk
fickle viper
very early BFA SS felt kind of broken
minor bay
is the all-rounded trait setup 2 twist 2 ss 2 eb ?
marble hemlock
true, but then again we didnt push highkeys properly until after it got nerfed already
marble hemlock
@rough thunder EB was the same as it is now, with the small distinction of the echo dealing 3times the damage it does now
rough thunder
oof
marble hemlock
was nerfed by 75%
night vale
unholy dk actually blasts imo... like motherlode reaping packs yesterday our unholy was hitting half a million dps
rough thunder
I wasn't playing at this time but i still miss it lol
Unholy is so freaking powerful rn, everytime i play with one he's far on dps
night vale
yeah motherlode teeming is perfect for it i think
rough thunder
Last week on AD 12 one was at 60k on the bridge
minor bay
I got 2 eb 2 tk 1 ss 1 cov atm 😦 still do good dmg but still
recvently rolled from ww
altough ww will be broken when patch comes
unique flax
which is more worth to run this week 3 ss/3eb or 2ttk/3eb/1ss?
marble hemlock
theres still many people focusing on overall, when thats not the important metric for keys
unique flax
i do like 2 ttk
marble hemlock
id still run 2ttk, unless your group is desperate for AoE
unique flax
my dream is 2ttk/2ss/2eb which i am still farming
winter moss
2ttk provide impressive priority target damage
which might be needed for certain dungeons
marble hemlock
like, i ran 3ttk/2eb/1ss last week and still hit 40k in a motherlode
rough thunder
I'm farming for a damn trinket uh
marble hemlock
so its not like you need many aoe-traits to do good aoe damage
winter moss
tbf 1eb boosts aoe by alot
marble hemlock
1-2EB usually carry AoE by themselves
rough thunder
I haven't got a single nice drop for weeks although i'm doing maybe 15-20 10+ per weeks
winter moss
m+ isnt supposed to gear you for the end of times
rough thunder
I keep my mastery and versality gears I got in chest :)))))
winter moss
WF/tTF is
strange python
I have 2xeb 2xttk 2xss. And I feel (I play with Frost mage And Dh) that is works perfect. Very good AoE, very good ST and I just Envenom the high health mobs and every pack (almost) allways die at the same time. It is smooth af:)
winter moss
you groupcomp is heavily armed for aoe then
marble hemlock
most groups are
winter moss
ture
marble hemlock
because most classes dont have a choice but to prioritize their AoE
assa has the flexibility to do other things, and focus more on cleave or prio/st
and using that flexibility is key
obviously requires you to have multiple azerite pieces to do so, or deep pockets, which sucks at first
winter moss
try to get that in the minds of puggers
marble hemlock
well
as i said, for most people overall matters the most
but thats how its always been
winter moss
also true
marble hemlock
people looked at boomy/monk in legion
and it looked op as fuck
meanwhile assa was pumping 500k-1mil more DPS on singletarget which was a huge timesave on fights that lasted 4min+ 😄
and its the same now
nocturne gate
Close at kinga xD
marble hemlock
if you have a sub, an assa and and outlaw with the same dps, the sub will be the most valuable, the outlaw the least valuable one
winter moss
as said befor overall != timesave
marble hemlock
i honestly have a heavy dislike for EB
i dont like the idea of a builder being the strongest AoE DPS ability
winter moss
but most of the people dont have the luxury to have 5 mates to grind dungeons so it bacme the only thing for measurement
marble hemlock
still waiting for a proper rupture dps trait
marble hemlock
rogue finishers in general are lacking some good trait options imo
winter moss
if CT would be enhanced by a trait i would also be fine with it
marble hemlock
you dont have one for rupture or dispatch, theres none for NB either, and i wouldnt say that NV is an actual eviscerate trait
winter moss
but that's some sort of synergy you cant bring to wow because most of the people couldnt comprehend the work behind it so just say it's trash
marble hemlock
well, it woukld suck on reaping where we dont multirupture at all 😄
dapper moat
btw are people usually just putting highest simming stat gems on sockets or do u try to balance it too somehow
like for me i got 6 items that have slots and i sim haste as my top
winter moss
yeah but reaping wont be there for the rest of the addon
dapper moat
but haste on m+ is not so much needed
night vale
@winter moss so explaining it to a noob, why does overall dps not make the key quicker? cause id think it would
marble hemlock
i do haste for items i only use in raid, crit for the ones i only use in m+, and mastery on the ones i use for both
winter moss
imagine having 5 700k mops and 1 4mil mop
dapper moat
k then i think ill go with mastery
marble hemlock
in any case, its a bit sad that none of the rogue specs have an aoe finisher baseline
and instead have to spec into it
winter moss
the wave ends when the last mop dies, while some classes have immense aoe dmg sin provides some decent prio target dmg
and while the bigboi dies the aoe classes lose dmg
marble hemlock
give sub sectec, assa CT and outlaw BR baseline, have a trait around it that boosts its aoe capabilities, and stop with the "builders do most damage" shit
90k pistol shots, meanwhile 25k dispatch
SeemsGood
winter moss
90k LUL
150k BtE
i mean bte is somewhat a cd anyway so
@night vale could follow where im going?
night vale
sort of, i think im too stupid to understand this sort of stuff though 😂
marble hemlock
just imagine this scenario
you pull 10 mobs, 9 with 1mil hp, 1 with 5mil hp. you kill the 9 mobs in 10sec, and you gotta singletarget the remaining one for another 40
if you had more prio damage, you would kill the 9 mobs in 15sec, but the big 5mil mob in 30
so the entire pull was done quicker
marble hemlock
the same applies to SS, and why i personally feel its so overrated
if you pull 10 mobs, and it takes your grp 30sec to kill them
what does SS actually do, other than make sure 3 of those 10 die faster than the rest
you dont actually help kill the other mobs faster
winter moss
thx seli for a better visualization of what i meant
marble hemlock
if you run TTK instead, you can just envenom whichever still has the highest hp, and cut down the killtime to maybe 25sec, thus saving your grp 5sec in the process
night vale
good teamwork 😄
marble hemlock
you may have less overall, but the pack died faster
night vale
yeah very good insight, im gonna see if ive got any TTK pieces
marble hemlock
sub rogue used to be the go-to spec for this kind of priority-target damage due to its core mechanics, but one of them got removed
winter moss
item restoration is still free
marble hemlock
but before that removal, sub was by far the strongest spec for m+ simply due to its potential to utilize that priority damage to make runs go faster
night vale
yeah i used to main sub and took it for granted
winter moss
rip sub
night vale
dont make me cry
winter moss
i actually hated that spec
minor bay
hella fun to melt big target
winter moss
for the sole reason named DfA
vast forum
Tbh seli if you garrote 3 mobs with ss, you can put an envenom into the remaining 7 to equalize hp
Thus making ss still valuable
Not as valuable as people make it out to be maybe
night vale
triple silence can be pretty nice tho
vast forum
But i still think ss has great value
marble hemlock
oh yeah, ss is still good, esp for ST
winter moss
silence comes from iron wire
marble hemlock
just saying that i dont get the 3SS hype
esp with how frequently you chainpull nowadays
winter moss
the extended one atleast
vast forum
3ss hype is great for low grps that pull 1 grp at a time
marble hemlock
or have reaping up before boss, wait 5sec to build threat, then pull boss
at which point youre either wasting garrotes on reaping, or sitting idly by for 5secs
SS is the pug-trait, definitely
tanks pull small and slow, usually give the healer time to drink as well, so you get big value
vast forum
Tbh on separated reaping packs (ones whete farthest mobs take a while to reach the grp), sitting in stealth to garrote the farthest mob with ss helps the grp the most
winter moss
yeah you either vanish for that or you wait
and the latter one wont helpt that much
imo
vast forum
Just waiting is good enough if your grp can handle the close mobs without you by the time the far ones reach the group
winter moss
why waiting then in the first place
vast forum
Which is the case for 2nd reaping in shrine at least the way my group pulls
winter moss
if your group can handle the mobs you should be able to position the pack anyway?
and most groups adapted to LoS the casters anyway
strange python
Is Azerite Globules any good with the spamming of FoK-Env?
how do you prepare for toxic blade ? bleeds up and running and as many enevoms with 4-5 cps u can during that 9 sec what about if ur bleeds are running out and u got toxic blade up do you hold it till u get ur bleeds back up ?
bronze kelp
Which fightstyle is the most suitable for prio target dmg sim? hecticaddcleave? or bestlord?
real bay
you dont want to delay TB,if you do multiple times you might lose a cast
strange python
aight
does anyone know where da hell is stealth button in elvui ?
or where i can find the keybind for it since i have it bind to Q and i got no idea where i can change it
strange python
nvm i found it was on stance bar ^^
amber talon
If I’m running 3x EB, do I want to fok once more at 4 CP to get the extra one (with the Risk of overcapping cps) or just use a finisher there ?
spice surge
It depends
If all targets have roughly the same hp (so no miniboss or anything), you already have your 4 bleeds up and youre not low on energy
Then you can fok multiple time and even waste cp if you just want aoe
But then you use a finisher to refresh elaborate planning
ruby idol
@marble hemlock good morning :)
steep obsidian
the 15% mitigation is pretty strong too
ruby idol
I dont think theres a Significant difference anywhere but the dungeons you mentioned. But i do think gouge and stuns in base rotation are overlooked and undervalued which is why i lean the outlaw direction
ruby idol
But ya, anytime anyone asks me about sin vs outlaw i tell them theyre super close
marble hemlock
oh yeah, gouge is nice for smth like underrot if you dont have many classes that can take care of maggots for example
ruby idol
With a slight advantage to outlaw generally
Gogue and bte is why its so tough for me to warrant assa in ML. Its like hard to shake habits when your group knows someone is handling so many different interrupts to all the sudden not having that
marble hemlock
ye
lethal heart
its same
if you play with hunter
and he feign deaths
remember we did that previous season when we played with hunter in ml
marble hemlock
we usually just blast the vendors to smithereens, never pull more than 1, and then we dont have to worry about it too much and just chain a lot
ruby idol
Ya thats 100% the play
Vanish utility is giga undervalued too
I think thats why the comparison is so hard to make, its more about the stuff that isnt dmg that makes the difference
marble hemlock
definitely
having garrote one, garrote two, garrote three ready for silence is pretty big
i rarely use vanish for dps
ruby idol
All 3 specs should have gouge, them not already is the dumbest shit
ruby idol
Take care my dude
ruby idol
Its 9 am here and i just woke up. I fixed it!
lethal heart
imagine
when your schedule is so fucked up
that it looks normal
thats a classic
😄
bold dove
So I'm between Outlaw and Sin, I've always enjoyed sin more even though being a pirate is fun af...but I hate roll the bones and how sometimes it's a waste...but with sin I feel that it's consistent and more enjoyable. What do you guys think? Comparing strengths
bronze kelp
mass aoe -> outlaw
prio target/boss dmg -> sin
thats for me the point. sure outlaw can do st dmg, and sure sin can do aoe, but every specc has its strength
but you can achieve nearly everything mit both specs
bold dove
Right on cool, I'll just stick with sin and have outlaw as my hobby spec lol P: thanks for your input.
bronze kelp
im also play sin more than outlaw, just cause outlaw is not so much fun for me
worldly iron
I could never give up juicy 45k opener bursts for outlaw
and I just generally enjoy assassination's bleeds more
bold dove
It's just so disheartening using all my points on roll the bones and get shit >_<
worldly iron
poison and bleeds are cool
bold dove
^^ yiis
nocturne gate
I dont have that much azerite pieces for both speccs and its tooo expensive to change it every 2 days so just stay outlaw even if my heart goes sin
bold dove
Understandable. I'll try to have two sets of az gear but only so much you can do.
strange python
Mass BURST AoE > Outlaw
Massive perceived AoE sin is still very good. Specially this week with extra mobs and more HP. It is easy to have consistent high damage in a pack.
naive cypress
Does the same Azerite Pieces always have the same traits? Like Shoulders from the same boss on Mythic or HC difficulty?
polar tapir
yes
strange python
Yes, and the "random" piece you can buy is always the same for me 😒
naive cypress
Thats really convenient
Has anyone made a sort of "bis" list for where good azerite pieces drop?
vague oyster
I use https://bloodmallet.com/ but don't know how good their rankings are
worldly iron
simcraft is pretty good
current bis are two vendor pieces though, with the head being from champions
worldly iron
did it sim better than whatever else you had?
uneven summit
Im not asking wether or not it´s better, i´m asking if it´s worth it now, since it has been 1x NP so far, and bloodmallet legit sims NP higher on 2 stacks now, im asking about your opinions on stacking NP
lethal heart
if you compare to something else also think about the fight
how many vendettas do you get in the fight
maybe how fight works you maybe lose one
its tricky
its ok
because now it properly sims with haste scaling
or sth
worldly iron
length of fight and if there's any cleave will affect things, of course
lethal heart
before sim wasnt correct
but some fights you wanna hold vendetta aswell
because something aswell right
uneven summit
Ahh okay, that´s why 😄
lethal heart
maybe just how fight works out
maybe because there is high prio burst or w/e it might be ye
but ye in general
just think about the fight
uneven summit
Allways do, just wanted to hear why it suddenly simmed higher 😛
cobalt pelican
is there a way to copy a gear set output from top gear to a simc string without manually reforging the gear/editing the lines 1 by 1?
amber talon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
latent gazelle
Anyone have a good weakaura/addon to track trinkets. I’m gonna check wago when I get home but was hoping for a point in the right direction
flint star
Spamming FoK with 2-3 EB is better than spamming CT, right?
heavy skiff
Prob yes
Dependa on ur crit
And if u have high crit u can even go with the fok talent instead of ct
flint star
21% is not high I guess.
heavy skiff
Im have 3xeb 2x ss and 1rtk
pulsar goblet
pb all day
heavy skiff
Its low
Im at 34%
If u get high crit u just spam fok and maintain ep buff with env and rup
And rup snipe targets to gain energy
turbid zealot
we always use exsanguinate in m+ yes?
cosmic pier
depends on how many ttk you run and what type of damage you want to be doing
for tyran weeks TB + TTL is pretty juicy
TTK
turbid zealot
whats the command for rogue abbreviations'?
hollow stone
Doesnt exist. Ttk is twist the knife
cosmic pier
Twist the Knife
cosmic pier
whats traits you got at the moment?
turbid zealot
1 shroud, 1 scent of blood, 1 echo, and 1 double dose
havent touched this guy in months
cosmic pier
if youve got a double dose then defs TB. but dd is pretty bad for m+
turbid zealot
best i got >.<
latent gazelle
@minor bay yeah much appreciated
wheat flame
Is HecticAddCleave still the best option to Sim for M+ damage for rogues?
nocturne gate
Dungeonslice
wheat flame
the "BETA" status for that sim is good enough for us? Just wanted to make sure i was careful with its BETA tag
sturdy python
It’s pretty good yeah. It leans toward single target and small pack sizes that don’t last long though
remote birch
I'm trying to pick between Outlaw and Assassination with raiding in mind, mayhaps the odd M+ dungeon once in a while. Which do you recommend? Is either particularly harder to play?
pulsar goblet
Why not both
pastel vault
Outlaw is more spammy with how many buttons you press, they're both good in raid
remote birch
I don't main rogue, so for starters, I think I'mma start with one 😃
What are their rotations like? I main a MM hunter at the moment, if any of you are familiar with the gameplay...
rose perch
Both are great choices - assassination is bursty and has moments where you wait for a while on single target, while outlaw pushes buttons every global pretty much and does consistent damage rather than really bursting, except sometimes when you roll a great combination of buffs
remote birch
My rogue is currently level 110, so I haven't played it at all in BfA, and really literally almost as little in Legion. Do you have any recommendation?
rose perch
I personally find leveling/open world content better as outlaw
remote birch
Yeah? How so? 😃
rose perch
assassination does damage by setting up bleeds and stuff whereas outlaw is faster-paced, also i prefer grappling hook to shadowstep out in the open world
quartz relic
at least for my murder it is better in raid than outlaw, now in m + outlaw it is a bit better. but no doubt some murder is better in raid.
primal gazelle
never heard anyone call the spec "murder" before
open compass
@remote birch I leveled as Sin and it was fine.
Was it the fastest? No.
But I love the play style and wasn’t rushed to get to 120.
I was more focused on enjoying the journey.
sturdy python
Enjoying leveling!? Blasphemy!
hollow stone
I leveled as sin and pretty much 1 shot everything til 116 thx to shoulders + mfd + env
Then it got lame :p
Unlike leveling my mage. That shit was broked. Pulling full quest hubs in one pull and just aoeing everything then looting all the collection quest items. Was getting quest nodes done in like 2-3 mins
sturdy python
I leveled as sin because of sephuz
And SS on helm was pretty nice, wish I swapped to outlaw at 116 though
primal gazelle
i had no legendaries and single targetted as sub my way to 120 🤔
hollow stone
Youre gross
inner pecan
sub was clean for leveling with cloak on bfa launch
you have to remember sub was highest performing spec before it got nerfed week 1 of uldir
jagged sorrel
Does anyone have a link for the list of Boss abilities or raid dmg that can be negated by cloak/feint/etc? I remember seeing compiled testing in the past but I dont remember where it was.
hollow stone
@jagged sorrel idk if that still exists. Cloak doesnt break any mechanics anymore but it still works as mitigation for nearly every magic dmg ability in raid and m+. Gl
You could try reddit competitive wow to see if some rogue lord has posted something like that but idk
jagged sorrel
@hollow stone Specifically I was wondering if it would negate Chilling Touch in P3 of Jaina heroic or if you cloak before the 20th stack you wont get frozen
hollow stone
Nah. So cloaking chilling touch will delay the stacks and dmg but it does not remove them. For example: you get 20 stacks and youre about to go below 80% and become frozen, you cloak. You delay that block from blocking you until the cloak fades
jagged sorrel
I just remember seeing a list before, not this raid tier, of a breakdown of boss abilities and if any rogue mitigation worked
hollow stone
Buys a bit of time but doesnt break the fight
Yea. It def existed in the past on wowhead
somber otter
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
spiral escarp
I must have missed something, can someone give me some info on Twist the knives trait and is it suddenly the bis one for m+ and with what setup?
rustic ether
so sin is kind of wierd right now in that the two best builds, turn you into outlaw or sub
3ss 3eb makes you into an outlaw rogue doing stupid aoe dmg and decent ST. TTK build makes you into a sub rogue being able to dump giant envenoms into one target after spamming fok on the pack giving you great priority dmg
spiral escarp
Thanks!
So it isn’t a better build, just different... so do you need high crit/mastery to be getting nice outcome from trk build?
rustic ether
youd have to ask the people doing that build, i dabbled in it just to figure out what it was doing and where the damage profile was to see if i like dit
i still like the 3eb 3ss build tho :3
spiral escarp
I see, thanks!
random scroll
pulsar goblet
Something something exploit
rustic ether
i think yall died
vestal wren
its a bug, its on reddit frontpage, nothing groundbreaking
full pagoda
Heya guys, I can't decide what's gonna be better for M+ this week, 2 ss 2 EB and 2 TTK or 3 EB + 1-2 SS and w.e. else
Since it's forgitified I think primary/ST target is also important besides aoe ofc
fortified*
or maybe 2 ss 3 EB and 1 TTK?
I mean I can sim myself but I just feel like to hear the balanced set up
rose perch
this is a week where i'd definitely try to live the 3EB lifestyle, what with fortified and teeming active
pastel vault
I'm not convinced that ttk build is good, isn't it 600 dmg per trait on a 15000+ dmg finisher
Ppl call it "sub rogue" but old sub was 40% bonus dmg
sturdy python
Its sub rogue because of the idea behind why you use them
pastel vault
And has more multipliers from dance symbols on top