do you mean if its worth
#assassination
strange python
like saving ur energy that u only get 1cp for evenom
rapid onyx
weakauras? Cool thank you very much. I’m just now trying to get into raiding and I’ve been screaming internally the entire time
dark crag
Try to express what you want with cp
leaden scroll
I think he means is there any situation where using one mutilate and instantly envenom (with 2cp) is worth
silent silo
The only thing with wakauras is that you will have to import a profile to get it to work for you
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
dark crag
It is never worth to finish under 4 cp
And with pandemic there is no chance rupture falls off without heavy mechanic duty
strange python
why ? dont u wanna keep elobarate up ?
You dont have to be a slave to elaborate uptime.
golden relic
not at the cost of finishers
real bay
you shouldn't play around EP
sonic bridge
lolwhat
strange python
so you wanna allways have 4-5 cps for enevom ?
mint peak
You want to do more in your EP window rather than simply have good EP uptime. What does it matter if your EP uptime is high if you're not even Mutilating during it?
dark crag
You pool energy before tb window and that auto makes eb and cp gen smooth
real bay
playing well automatically get a you good EP uptime
real bay
yeah but not staring at it blindly
potent oracle
guys atal dazar trinket is good ?
sonic bridge
you dont after a while
dark crag
Only when tb is up, you run out of steam very quickly finishing every 4.9 secs
mint peak
If you Envenom at 0.1s left in EP but you're at 35 energy, you will do nothing for the majority of your EP buff. So you should just pool letting EP drop, then when you get a new EP and envenom buff you will be pumping Mutilates into it and with good crits will be able to finish again in your EP window with high energy
Doesn't make sense to just use a finisher at low energy just because EP is about to drop off
dark crag
Also dd procs inside ep
bleak spoke
Yeah especially if you play double dose traits but even otherwise it’s stronger to play around envenom windows than ep
dark crag
Sucks that ep and env buff are different secs
bleak spoke
It’s being able to play around both and optimize that separates really good play from perfect play kinda
dark crag
Why can't ep be 1 sec + 1 sec per cp
bleak spoke
6 seconds is a long time
You basically would ignore ep in that case
Cuz at the bottom of envenom window you just play to clip envenom and you never actually mutilate without both by default
Would make it about as interesting as mp
dark crag
Mp assa in legion antorus
bleak spoke
I didn’t play legion 
I hear we had an execute and 100% on ma
Must have been a good time
dark crag
Yes, bracers and shoulders
pastel vault
Pretty good trick huh? @gusty kestrel
dark crag
It was like ma assa now but with more pb proc hopes
strange python
so i allways wanna have 4-5 cps for enevom/rupture and i still get good uptime on EP ? what about low energy do i still continue with 4-5 cps ?
dark crag
Also kingsbane
bleak spoke
You should hard spend in Tb windows
strange python
whats tb ?
solid nova
Toxic Blade
strange python
riight
bleak spoke
My idea on how to play out of Tb windows is you pool to like 110 or so and then you want to end your final ep env buff window with mutilates and sit to pool for next Tb
Cuz then you don’t waste dd proc chances or damage on mutilate repoisons at all
bleak spoke
Jeez
dry thicket
How do i sim for jaina mythic execute phase? 2 min sim assumes i start stealthed
vestal wren
you should try using MA too
bleak spoke
What traits are you playing kamui
Also can you remove the stealth conditional at the start maybe
Like just cut it out of the sim
Somebody halppp @vestal wren
lost horizon
@cosmic pier 3 EB?
lost horizon
I wanna try it but like
bleak spoke
Wait are you playing 3 echoes for jaina
lost horizon
Outlaw pumps too hard to give up lmao
dry thicket
2x DD 1 NP 1 Blightborne 1 TTK 1 SS playing subterfuge..couldnt get mekka chest and am thinking of going MA with grong chest with DD SOB instead of TTK+SS cus it sims 1% better on 5 min sim
bleak spoke
Hmm I think you don’t actually get much of the value of subterfuge on jaina execute cuz you’re not gonna garrote ice blocks that’s ridiculous right
When does vanish come up
Vs vendetta
dry thicket
I mean, it does good burst for the garrote
bleak spoke
Like how do you play wall and elemental
bleak spoke
Then don’t you start vanish
In which case so do you play one Tb window before vendetta
I think you have to
Like garrote muti rupture muti tb without bend
dry thicket
Uh
bleak spoke
Vend
Then you actually get value out of vanish
Idk
Might as well just play ma
In that case lol
Cuz if you end execute at like 2:20 or 2:30 in real time that last vendetta could be the kill
Or not
Depending on how spicy it gets
dry thicket
The phase is like 90 secs long max
bleak spoke
In that case it’s probably a toss up
How much exsang gear do you have if you end on third exsang that’s actually probably more damage :^)
Not even actually trolling right now
Like rupturing blocks for giga uptime on ep and to funnel envenoms
dry thicket
I could equip 3xSS
dry thicket
But what blocks?
dry thicket
I think when ppl ice block its wipe
bleak spoke
Fair
primal gazelle
@cosmic pier embrace the memes 😄
bleak spoke
Yeh in that case I don’t think you want to play exsang cuz without rupture refreshes for energy resets you’re going to end up worse off
ripe nimbus
People who arnt on mythic jaina prog talking bout mythic jaina prog if u get ice blocked its a wipe xD
golden relic
i mean, im dumb, why does it not stack cps before then TB vanish envenom, or vanish tb envenom
bleak spoke
Hey man I’m just trying to help
golden relic
i thought that was the standard thing
bleak spoke
To be fair demo pet does about as much damage as a melee dps
Can see how the confusion happened
:^)
dry thicket
So I can do that advanced sim in top gear option?
pastel vault
It kinda depends when and where you get blocked, a single block can be a wipe but sometimes you can keep going
vestal wren
whats exactly the purpose of opening without stealth?
pastel vault
He just wanted to see what it would do given a fresh target I think
dry thicket
i wanted to sim my best gear/talent choices for jaina execute
hollow stone
Blindside BABY 
pastel vault
Same as a non execute fight except gut ripper is now best
hollow stone
Not actually serious. Dont do it
hollow stone
Well thats something. Last time i simmed it. For ghuun. It was literally a dps loss in execute to use blindside over no talent...
sharp token
i think its still the case if you have 3 DD
pastel vault
Weird maybe I did it wrong? Maybe I'll redo it for jaina, 2 target <28%
hollow stone
Cant wait to start jaina prog. Should have stormwall down next raid night. Then the fun begins
dry thicket
do i also need to delete a line for lust?
dry thicket
does it matter where i add it?
pastel vault
Uh don't think so, I put it near top
If Jaina didn't take dmg during lust, sub would pipe p3
No lust short fight 2nd target for fok between dances 
dry thicket
but then you have to play sub all the other phases too
😄
actually would probably not even matter since we need dps stops in p1 and p2
another question, can i change my race from NE to troll? 😄
hm, the MA profile already sims higher. since SS benefits from being NE, the MA build without SS should surely be better, right?
lethal heart
its not like assa during that downtime does giga damage with dots
its like 200k if you plan your rupture/garrote
dry thicket
what downtime?
lethal heart
when jaina ports away
she still takes damage
so you wanna reapply your dots to max pandemic to do as much damage on her
dry thicket
are you comparing assa to sub?
lethal heart
not really comparing assa to sub just in general specs on jaina are really close
all 3 of them
dry thicket
i mean, i kinda have to play assa anyway since i dont have an adequate weapon for outlaw and i have high haste/mast and low crit/vers
lethal heart
ye thats fair
to play w/e you have best gear for
and most people geared around playing assa right
coz it was safe bet
but even outlaw is very competetive on jaina, can say that from my experience
dry thicket
but isnt it a bit lower on the ST burst?
lethal heart
it is
but thing is
in a window where outlaw gets 3 cds
assa gets 1 cds
and its during wall + p3
lethal heart
- cleave is really beneficial for outlaw because you wanna play wits
you get a lot of cleave value on jaina
you get big combo point influx allowing you to get rolls easier
and you can pre plan your rolls for wall aswell
dry thicket
you mean the elemental cleave?
lethal heart
ye elemental
ordinances
potential iceblocks
becuase people might get frozen
its just nice for you right
even balistas in p1
the additional combo poitns influx from extra ss procs/deadshot procs you get from wits
allow you for more rerolls
dry thicket
balistas / ordinances are almost never in boss range tho
dry thicket
at least in our raid
lethal heart
you'd be suprised
in shrine on 1st boss
you can cleave 2 adds
with wits
with bflurry*
even though it doesnt look like it
because they're so far apart
you can find a spot where you cleave them both
dry thicket
nice 😄
lethal heart
so ye even though it might look
you might be able to
like if you get a 'lucky p1' without a 5 buff
primal gazelle
@cosmic pier i wonder how it feels to be that mage/ww and be 10k less dps under somebody lmao
lethal heart
but with decent spawns of balistas
you do pretty decent
think if you could be able to use cds on wall
cosmic pier
nah they're alts, carrying them
cosmic pier
interested to see how it goes with my main group tomorrow night, usuallyget spanked by our spriest
dry thicket
i was thinking of using SS vanish garrote on jaina and wall, but it probably doesnt even make that big of a difference when timed perfectly
lethal heart
y thats worth
i'm pretty sure it is
because you can get 2x pandemic garrotes
on both jaina and wall
and tahts probably most you can get out of vanish aswell in that fight at this point
dry thicket
you could also use vanish on jaina with vendetta, potion and troll racial
lament dove
@cosmic pier are you going with SS as well, or do you use TTK?
I guess SS since I don't see envenom^^
lethal heart
@dry thicket ofc its hard to measure right coz its very specific
but i think its most overall damage you could get out of vanish
but if you strictly lack pure p3 damage then y holding is smarter becuase its for sure more boss damage
tough call idk
scarlet wing
bleak spoke
Yes
You could probably run that setup any week and be fine
@lethal heart anyone gonna stream your prog? I wanna see the subtlety in action xd
languid ore
You have to change specs on different bosses to get a chance to at weapon right
bleak spoke
Right click your portrait set loot spec
languid ore
Nah I know
Seems dumb for rogues tho
Should just give me both 1 handers and dagger no matter what spec
bleak spoke
Not really cuz it makes other stuff more likely if you don’t have the option to get a weapon you don’t want
languid ore
I guess
bleak spoke
And druids probably
vestal wren
feral is not bad tbh
bleak spoke
Feral seems okay now
vestal wren
its more an issue that you dont want melees in the raid
bleak spoke
And feral’s the last melee you’d want yeh
ripe nimbus
Id take a feral over a sub rogue
languid ore
Do 1 handers and daggers drop as sub?
gleaming crater
Is there a macro when you are like in stealth you have on keybind 'F' Cheap shot, and when you get out of stealth, it chagnes into kidney shot?
bleak spoke
Same one as the shadowstrike backstab macro
languid ore
Wack. Ok ty
vestal wren
you can just use stance:0 as modifier
gleaming crater
I am terrible with macro's , so I have no clue how to make those. I am totally new to rogue ( main warlock dont use a macro) 😛
bleak spoke
You should for pet attack
edgy pawn
i use it on the same hotkey, which is on the bar which changes if i'm in/out of stealth
vestal wren
/cast [modifier] spell; spell2
gleaming crater
@bleak spoke My pet never listen to me anyways...
bleak spoke
Yeh I have ambush and sinister on that as well
Well it would if you had a pet attack macro
Xd
gleaming crater
@edgy pawn I am using elvui 😛
edgy pawn
me too
gleaming crater
Not planning to pvp anyways xD
vestal wren
(out of combat = sap, in combat = kidney)
ripe nimbus
Thats an odd macro
cosmic pier
@lament dove sorry i was in a key, 3 eb 2 ss 1 ttk
bleak spoke
Yeh was gonna say that’s a bit strange to me
vestal wren
i think i used combat as modifier
cosmic pier
the ttk could be a third ss but i think its overkill
vestal wren
but could be stance too
full pagoda
Hello guys, I've got 2 questions and I need answer from people that are 100% sure about it. So, my first one is for whoever plays with TB. It happens to me that during a fight if I have a total of 12-14 TB casts like 4-5 or 6 I have to redot in pandemic while in TB. How can I avoid that? How do you avoid that? Do you focus on redot in pandemic or not really? Also, the talent elaborate planning, besides on opener with cds or blood lust/TW where you need to pull of energy to not cap, do you always try to optimize the usage of it by just trying to use a finisher to synq with elaborate planning (when possible) or not really?
primal gazelle
@vestal wren what if you want to open with a mfd kidney shot from stealth? 😛
ripe nimbus
Short answers. Use TB on cooldown regardless. And Dont worry about EP. Long answers its the smallest gain in dps to optimize those two things so if u care. Im sure theres a bunch of people here that are gonna talk to u about pooling
hollow stone
All you can do is try to plan ahead for tb usage. There will be times where that doesnt happen and dots need to be reapplied. Reapply them even if this means only getting 1 env in your tb window. Tb on cd is more important over the course of the fight. As for eb, you want 100% ep uptime in vend when you have the energy to do so but your goal shouldnt be maintaining ep.
So basically same same as crit said :p
full pagoda
Eh, I need to look elsewhere then, I keep not being able to get orange parses for w.e. reasons I think I fix but I guess I don't. Thanks
hollow stone
If you want help parsing. Just link logs. People will love to tell you what youre doing wrong
primal gazelle
^ LOL
full pagoda
Nah, I've done it and most people tell me things I already know tbh, so it's either I'm missing something very basic or Idk. For real. Every single week is a tilting week on reset for me.
silent silo
Sometimes it's not you it also depends on how fast your group can kill a boss
ripe nimbus
Okay so did u apply the things people are telling u. You did wrong that u "already know"
hollow stone
If people are telling you things you know that means youre not executing properly despite having the knowledge. Sounds like its time to go beat on a dummy for like an hour
full pagoda
Yesterday I even tested out if SS padding on adds matters, nope, I literally got the same parses as with DD traits, so I either keep doing the same mistakes all over again or It's something basic I ignore.
hollow stone
Damn crit. We on the same page today sonnnnn
full pagoda
well I applied them I think xD. Cos I've asked here already a couple of times
hollow stone
Not trying to be a dick, genuinely asking, do you know how to review your own logs?
full pagoda
To some point, I know how to see uptime and resources like energy and CPs, also when I have used a cd. I also know how to see the whole casting rotation. What else is important? Maybe dmg taken but that doesn't concert parses ofc.
ripe nimbus
U can use the compare tool to compare to a higher parsing rogue around ur ilvl to see how different their casts are to yours
Thats a good way to learn
hollow stone
Thats good enough. #1 make sure dots (both dots) have 98% or higher uptime. #2 check to make sure youre not wasting any of your vendetta window due to mechanics (ex. Popping vend on pull for grong when you need to swap adds half way through it). #3 was tb ever on cd for more than 2-3 sec? If yes, check why, if it was you doing a mechanic thats fine but if it wasnt, then you need to tb more. #4 try to review the timings of mechanics on a boss and adjust accordingly. If a mechanic is about to come out that forces a swap, dont tb the main target (for example)
bleak spoke
Playing DD first thing I look at on the long is mutilates cast with envenom buff on
ripe nimbus
If u can use cloak to avoid a mechanic and continue dpsing thats another xD
bleak spoke
And then envenoms cast with Tb buff on
hollow stone
GET OUT OF MY HEAD @ripe nimbus
bleak spoke
And then garrotes/ruptures cast with Tb buff on which is something I want to avoid
I’m not 100% sure if this is accurate but I think you have a bank of about 15 seconds over the course of any fight whatsoever to delay tb
Because that’s the time you have to get full value out of casting every Tb in a fight
full pagoda
@hollow stone I think you've got it. I don't have 98% most of the time, it varies around 94-95%, sometimes might be lower but whenever I feel like I am doing super good and I see the log It feels very annoying, I just don't think I ever will be able to get to a point of 98+%. I sometimes forget to pop TB exactly when it's off cd returned. ;(((((((((((((((((((
strange python
Need god RNG to gold parse mekka
bleak spoke
My m champs is literally on the border of 98 and 99 but the fight was 2:01
brazen prairie
hey, wth, is Double Dose really physical damage and it doesnt scale by mastery?
bleak spoke
Or slower :^)
hollow stone
Our champs this week was like 2:15. It was horrible
brazen prairie
wowhead says school:physical
hollow stone
God damn apes, man
bleak spoke
At this point I hope some dps die so it’s a good 2:25
strange python
DD is another poison
bleak spoke
LuL
hollow stone
Yea. 2:25 would be fine
timber mauve
i mean if its on wowhead, it must be true
hollow stone
Getting half a vend and a slow kill time, not fine
bleak spoke
Almost a full one with MA
And your whole tb window
But honestly I think subterfuge to pad is best
hollow stone
I know. Subt is for sure best
spice surge
@brazen prairie Wowhead says the school is physical, IE its an ability, not a spell
bleak spoke
Cuz I opened 3 g and that was more successful
spice surge
So you can use it while silenced
bleak spoke
Bigly energy regen
strange python
the whole guild pads on champions adds and they die too fast 😦
brazen prairie
@spice surge tyvm. Btw where can I check stuff like this? I mean from what each spell is affected and such
spice surge
Just check logs, average hit of double dose during TB is always significantly higher than outside tb
ripe nimbus
U can also just watch ur own numbers
spice surge
Idk its pretty random what effects what
hollow stone
Id say its probably about 30% higher 🤔
nimble tartan
i hope none of you are exploiting on jaina 🚓
spice surge
Why wouldnt i be
marble elm
🚓
ripe nimbus
Exploiting?
brazen prairie
tys!
full pagoda
@hollow stone do you always get above 98% uptime? Do you use a WA or something to shine bright when TB is back on? I never had this probrem on exsanguinate but Idk why I can't follow TB always for 15 seconds.
spice surge
Just like how every demo lock is exploiting their tyrant bug
timber mauve
is that the los bug?
marble elm
Koopa
ripe nimbus
Whats this jaina exploit u speaketh of
nimble tartan
Koopa
hollow stone
No. Not always but thats due to operator error. I just use basic wa to track bleeds and i have a timer for tb. Works for me but my set up is ancient
Havent really touched my ui since like mop
primal gazelle
anyone have a WA that shows the amount of ruptures you currently have up? I have a WA for scent of blood stacks but it doesnt work when i dont use the trait
nimble tartan
its better not to know so u dont tempt yourself...
spice surge
EZ clap
hollow stone
Ye. Keep it for yourself fo sho
bleak spoke
You’re like actually the personification of Jebaited
hollow stone
Sorry i mean, exploits are against the tos 
willow cypress
Ye definitely keep it to yourself but let me know so I can be sure to keep it to myself
willow cypress
hollow stone
Okok. Ill spill the beans
Get the int oh and use it during transitions thats the exploit. Enjoy
ripe nimbus
Speaking of champ kill times ours was 1 minute 40 seconds this week
Wont happen everyone dies to mallets at the end pepega
We also never underheal stuff which is feels bad
We did have 5th fastest stormwall tho
spice surge
Why reclear when you can wipe on jaina for another night 😄
ripe nimbus
Jaina is such a boring fight imo i hope we never extend
hollow stone
Stahp. Im excited to start prog this week or next. IT WILL BE FUN
spice surge
Its certainly a cooler fight
hollow stone
-_- x3
vestal wren
@primal gazelle why would i do that
marble elm
shes cute
sturdy python
Implying Ghuun wasn’t
primal gazelle
@vestal wren for pvp purposes, kidney healer, cheapshot dps
vestal wren
i like pvp, but not in wow
strange python
for pvp just play League 😄
vestal wren
yes there are a lot of games that focus on pvp out there, if i look into playing pvp i look into those
strange python
what's your second vendetta timings on jadefire
nimble tartan
Just cloak it
ripe nimbus
Pvp in wow 
strange python
cause you get it just before 60 energy
vestal wren
btw. to not cause issues, in no way do i look down on ppl who do pvp in wow.
I think its a part of the game that some enjoy and if they do its great.
ripe nimbus
Wait for them to teleport away. Or vendetta the wall for luls
bleak spoke
So is erp
Though I find myself wishing I were good at pvp more often than wishing I were good at role playing
strange python
so you hold it till after maze @ripe nimbus ?
ripe nimbus
Thats if u vendetta on pull i havent tryed holdin vendetta for after u get sent up and get dmg boost thinking about it now doing that prob lines up vendetta better
strange python
i'll just do it on wall to pad
ez clap
ye maybe
i normally hold my vanish for that
ripe nimbus
Im gonna try holding vendetta next week seems better
Because 2nd vendetta always comes up on wall and they tele away after
So thats annoying
strange python
ye
bleak spoke
When is pad log with 3EB 3SS exsang
Not even kidding
Okay kinda kidding
But maybe not because you get out of wall around 2:35 right
nimble tartan
The real pad log is letting the tigers live and having the healers just focus heal the people and running scent
See u there
bleak spoke
Big brain
vestal wren
the new trinkets from the 2 boss raid will allow quite brutal padding
just hope you got very strong healers
bleak spoke
Many mastery
strange python
guys,is sample sequence table on raidbots accurate, or its just a "sample"?
ripe nimbus
Wall timings can be different depending how fast u get their and how fast u kill it. Maze phase for us is so short lol
bleak spoke
Yeh but it starts at 2 mins ish right
vestal wren
@strange python it takes the 2nd iteration of the sim for the sample sequence
bleak spoke
Wouldn’t the faster the maze phase the better it be
strange python
what's the best way to pad on champion?
vestal wren
a sim has (depending on settings) usually between 5000 and 100000 iterations
strange python
SS 3 mobs and then do it again on vanish?
bleak spoke
Idk I Garrote the one that blinds cuz at least he’ll live through the poison for e regen
And double garrote on boss
strange python
nothing else to do on farm fights lma
nimble tartan
Just become a chad and run ma obnly
strange python
@vestal wren what exactly do you mean by that? :
vestal wren
just join the __MA__sterrace
bleak spoke
Gonna do it next week, got jadefire shoulders now 8D
Maybe I’ll be a blightborne boi one day, gonna start rolling shoulders
nimble tartan
God I love blightborne
vestal wren
@strange python it means it is 1 iteration of 5k-100k so its as accurate as it can get for that
ripe nimbus
No one looks at boss damage 
vestal wren
its not a average or anything it is how it plays in that specific iteration
marble elm
You can parse with MA
strange python
oh,thanks 😃
bleak spoke
Significantly harder if you want to gun for rank 1 tho
bleak spoke
Just crit literally everything 4Head inc
vestal wren
if you find sth off in the sim, you can ask here or in #tc-research
bleak spoke
We’re talking about champions tho
marble elm
Ok yea on champs you’ll have a hard time
bleak spoke
What’s rank 1 right now anyway
vestal wren
do ppl rly put any value in champion parses?
bleak spoke
I like the color orange 😡
pulsar goblet
marble elm
You can get orange without padding on champions
bleak spoke
Also the fights simple so it’s harder for it to expose the fact that I’m dogshit
bleak spoke
2:01 kill this week 
vestal wren
well good groups are at ~1:30
bleak spoke
Yeah was gonna say
vestal wren
😛
hollow stone
Fuu spittin fire today
bleak spoke
We are the picture of mediocrity
vestal wren
my guild has 2:20 best kill or so
vestal wren
oh ye i played it as sub so i want to have it killed asap
hollow stone
Nah. Faster better. The less time in a boss without lust, the better
vestal wren
btw. this boss is the first one with an absurdly low killtime in mythic
it had even a low killtime during first weeks
hollow stone
The problem for us is all the god damn healers still want champs so we run 4-5 healers still
vestal wren
let them go dps
bleak spoke
Don’t they have dps specs
hollow stone
We had a monk go full on dps mw because we didnt need the heals
bleak spoke
Better to have them do like 10k than nothing right
hollow stone
We have 1 that will go balance. Rest as stubborn af
bleak spoke
Even if they have no azerite
bleak spoke
Cuz their healing logs gonna be doodoo with more than 2
hollow stone
Yea. Idk. I havent healed since cata but i dont think being afk half the fight would be fun
Heals are also the weakest part of our raid group
Im sure that doesnt help
hollow stone
We have 1 really good healer. And then 2 pretty good healers. The rest are poop
hollow stone
Lol. Yuge @gusty kestrel
bleak spoke
Yeh
round harbor
you bring the battle shaman for the slt
thats it
litteraly 3 button dps spec
lava burst, flame shock, and ligfhtning bolt
bleak spoke
Igneous Potential omegalul
mint peak
Elemental is great though. It's more complex than any Rogue spec right now as far as rotations go
Assuming you take Icefury and MoE
blissful tide
mint peak
It's objectively better in practice for raid than any Rogue spec, just not for M+
hollow stone
What ranged class isnt better than rogue for raiding? Lol.
strange python
hunter
hollow stone
Til tuesday
nocturne gate
Ele is fun but the lack of mobility sucks so hard
mint peak
I think Mages are kinda meh too. Would much rather play a Rogue
strange python
is sin actually better than outlaw at anything?
strange python
seems like all parse and strong m+ are outlaw
nocturne gate
Guess it depends if they got frozen in the near of jaina or in ruanda
mint peak
Parsing is a lot of cheesing. If you're on M Jaina prog (or even like Mekkatorque) you want to be Assass because the damage is essentially guaranteed in the hard phases
nocturne gate
On progress assa yeah
strange python
makes sense
hollow stone
Outlaw also has high highs and low lows where sin is more consistent. Consistency is very valuable for bosses where timing is important, such as conclave or p1 blockade
In general, sin is the go to raid apec
Spec
bitter nacelle
Would anyone be willing to look at my logs and help me figure out why my parses are garbage? I almost always top charts but I’m always parsing sub-50
hollow stone
Link em. But based on what youre saying so far, sounds like your group overall needs better kill times to help you parse higher
mint peak
Yeah link em. Usually if you're top DPS and its low percentile it means your guild execution and kill time is primary factor
mint peak
YA GOT ME
brave halo
i mean a lot of it is going to be to do with other guilds just killing bosses way faster
mint peak
Looking at your Grong kill, 4 minutes is basically the worst kill timing for Assa since it's when you're about to Vendetta again so you're at a valley for DPS
bitter nacelle
Makes sense, I also don’t usually pot which I imagine would help a bit too, just didn’t think it would make up for 40% of the parse
hollow stone
Potting is big. If you 2 pot a 4 min boss, you nearly have 25% pot uptime. Which is big
brave halo
could play ma for higher st
hollow stone
Its also expensive tho
mint peak
Also not sure about your opener. On Conclave your opener got scuffed too, you hit Vendetta and got hexed, took 7 seconds to get dispelled (lul) so half your first Vendetta was wasted. Which is enough to kill a parse.
hollow stone
Gotta cloak that hex during vend
brave halo
cant you cloak that hex
spice surge
The hex is only like 5 seconds though? 🤔
brave halo
its definitely worth
hollow stone
Run out cloak step
bitter nacelle
I tend to save cloak cause it’s not a boss we have on farm, so I can use cloak later to help heals
Which will be better when it is on farm
mint peak
You won't need cloak again until 2nd winds anyways so you're ok to use it there
hollow stone
You dont need cloak for anything else on that fight except maybe winds and maybe more uptime on akunda
robust cloak
hi guys, considering rolling an ally rogue to play with friends, does shadowmeld give empowered garrotes with SS?
mint peak
It does
robust cloak
thanks!
brave halo
but its more like you'd meld to get back into stealth and triple garrote
hollow stone
Meld gives subt or ss, and not the other. Cant remember which since thats the wrong faction
bitter nacelle
Also should I not double garrote with SS for my opener? I thought the added time to the garrote was preferred
hollow stone
So its not huge
bitter nacelle
So ultimately, fix my opener, start potting (when I want to get my high parses cause why am I gonna waste money) and wait until my guild has these fights more on farm with faster kill times and my parses will go back to being higher like they’ve been in the past
halcyon tulip
a nice bug people in especially warmode can use is, if you use Subterfuge while world questing: you can flight whistle/hearth/mount and not break stealth
robust cloak
when do you use galecallers in that opener apple? just out of curioisty
i pop it between vend/tb personally
cosmic pier
pop with vendetta so it lines up for subsequent vendettas
macro it together with vendatta
frail anvil
How in the flip do I AOE? Do I just keep spamming fan of knives or do i do fan of knives then target one mob and kill them one by one?
sturdy python
Depends on situation and traits
vocal oracle
multi dot
sturdy python
Generally, 4+ targets you open with three garrotes, rupture, fan for cp, spread ruptures envenom when needed
But traits change that a lot
frail anvil
Just general AOE mob killing. I just turned 119 and switched from outlaw to assassination and trying to figure out assassination from 119 to 120 to see if I like it. Single target stuff dies super fast but I keep dying with 3+ mobs super quickly
primal gazelle
how do these rogues achieve such low chilling touch dmg?
solid nova
Its a bug
sturdy python
Assassination has trouble leveling with multiple mobs. Put out garrotes out of stealth with subterfuge. Rupture one or two then spam envenom
solid nova
And will be fixed
primal gazelle
whats the bug
frail anvil
Ah okay, I guess I keep expecting outlaw type AOE. basically spread the venom and then single target stuff?
solid nova
If its ToS, you wont hear it here 😉
sturdy python
Keep ruptures and poisons up for lots of energy and spam envenom yes
You won’t do the aoe like outlaw while leveling
frail anvil
kk, appreciate it, thank you!~ ❤
vestal wren
i mean its clever use of game mechanics am i right? 😛
lone junco
@frail anvil If you have an SS garrote trait that will help a lot. Can g g cheapshot.
solid nova
frail anvil
SS?
primal gazelle
okay i found the ans
solid nova
🙄
primal gazelle
fun detected
solid nova
👋
sturdy python
Shrouded suffocation @frail anvil it’s on the first azerite Helmer you can get from Magni quest. No clue if it’s anywhere else easily
Really strong for leveling
solid nova
Dont play dumb, take it somewhere else
frail anvil
Ah what! I should have it already? I think I may have fucked up cause if its the first azerite helm we get, I'm pretty sure I obliterated it
primal gazelle
i was just tryna make 10$ geez
sturdy python
I mean it’s fine. Once you hit 120 it’s irrelevant
It just would make your life easier until then
frail anvil
ah true true. alright ill just grin and bear it for the moment. thanks!
strange python
If you scrapped it you can use the "Item restoration" from ingame help menu
frail anvil
eh, im already halfway thru 119
full pagoda
I'm using WAs for my bleeds/debuffs but I really wanna make maybe a button with seconds countdown for TB, I really really can't get used to use it when it's off cd, I lose dmg like that and parses
Maybe it sounds weird but I really can't get used to it
is anybody using such?
ripe nimbus
Are u talking a WA to track TB because many people use such
full pagoda
well I don't really have a problem tracking the dmg increase for 9 seconds, but to see when it's off CD
ripe nimbus
Yea many people use a WA to track TB sure someone can get u one
I dont because i have a really good muscle memory xD
full pagoda
sturdy python
Any of the base WA would have it
full pagoda
I am bad at this game
bronze topaz
with how many targets do we use fok when using 3 times dd?
full pagoda
I don't want packages as I am already using WAs for most of my things
ripe nimbus
4+ probably
full pagoda
only TB needed 😄
ripe nimbus
If u type /WA then go new and go to the preset ones for cooldowns im almost certain WA has a built in WA to track TB
full pagoda
I doubt as mine are custom made
ripe nimbus
Yes but WA has built in cooldown trackers for almost everything u just gotta to the new section and its under presets or something
alpine grotto
lone junco
@full pagoda you can make a Tb weakaura that shows up with 5seconds or so on cooldown, then dings when ready.
I used one for outlaw Alacrity. Only show the icon when buff has less than 5 sec remain, so I could roll to extend. Same thing would apply to a Buff almost ready icon.
strange python
on grong
do you guys vendetta/vanish the adds
they die so quick
or do you just save it for boss?
ripe nimbus
I vendetta the boss i vanish SS the adds
strange python
k
real bay
same
potent oracle
guys what guide is better ravenholt or wowhead ?
real bay
else you waste vendetta duration and end up delaying
ripe nimbus
Im pretty sure they are pretty similar @potent oracle dont quote me on that though i havent read a guide in years lol
strange python
i sim .5% lower ST with Subtlety and one SS on a +15 ilvl upgrade., over MA. I prefer the SS opener, will that .5% kill me?
weak socket
Hey, does anyone know, without me having to investigate good logs and actually use my own brain, if it's worth saving Vendetta for after MSS on Mythic Jadefire for the damage buff? I'm assuming the answer will be "How long is the fight / Will you lose a Vendetta cast doing that?"
sturdy python
Haven’t done the fight but if you don’t lose a cast then it only makes sense
Purely output wise anyway
weak socket
I only thought of it because after our farm kill Tuesday, one of our monks shot up insanely after MSS, and was so far ahead of literally everyone else, that when he died 5 seconds into the Barrier phase, a full minute later he was still dead.
Er
A full minute later he was still #1
.>
dense delta
rupture and echo or ttk and echo for standard m+ (10-15 keys) ??
dense delta
yeah, thx mate
dense delta
^^
bleak spoke
which piece is that
bleak spoke
hmmm
sick cradle
anyone know which freehold event it is on EU this week?
rocky ruin
the dog and the key
sullen pagoda
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rZXKhwGTuk8T3TuUZqtzVs mastery popping off 
hollow matrix
brave sand
Hello guys , I have a question . When I have Vendeta about few second ending and I refresh Rupture . Will be Rupture buffed for full duration ? Example - Vendeta ends in 3 sec and I refresh Rupture 😃
quasi pewter
no
sullen pagoda
nope
brave sand
Thanks for answer
pastel vault
feral druids can do things like that but not us 😃
bleak spoke
but then you'd be a furry
rose oyster
Hey guys a few questions. I've watched a few videos trying to squeeze out as much as dps as possible and along the way coming up with questions I don't know the answers to.
- On an Empowered garrotte do you pandemic it or wait for it to fall off before reapplying?
- Does Vendetta effect work on bleeds?
prisma wind
- You want to let empowered garrotes tick down all the way. If you have an empowered garrote ticking don’t overwrite it. 2. Yep
You only really pandemic an empowered garrote with another empowered garrote, in situations like the opener/out of stealth with subterfuge
rose oyster
I thought so. I was just questioning myself as I watched a Rogue POV on most mythic fights to nail down the CD usage and I was second guessing myself as this one guy would let his empowered garrote fall off then vanish garrote again. Which made me think why didnt he refreash empowered with another empowered at 5 secs? His vanish was up at the time.
coarse carbon
Has there been any pretesting of the Zandalari Troll passives and their DPS effectiveness?
civic palm
People tend to wait until there are finalized numbers before testing.
coarse carbon
I was under the impression the latest iteration was "final". Though we are talking about Blizz here...
coarse carbon
Lol, true true
alpine pilot
hey guys, question about the opener with master assassin: why do we do vendetta > vanish > TB > mut > envenom , instead of doing vendetta > mut once or twice for 4-5cp > tb > vanish > envenom> mut > envenom?
basically the first opener is the one on the guide and u get 1 envenom during the MA window, but the second one lets you start the MA window with an envenom, and if the mut crits, u can drop a 2nd one during the MA window as well, wouldnt that be better? o.o
strange python
it's all about the combo points you have... check your own, but for me: 4+ pt envenom > TB > 3 pt envenom > mut ...you only have time for 3 globals inside the MA window, and since your first should ALWAYS be a full 5 pt envenom coming out of vanish, that leaves just 2 abilities left... just use that priority 😃
alpine pilot
yea, but what im saying is, if the mut crits with MA buff inbetween envenoms, you would get a 2nd envenom during the MA window
scenic quail
@alpine pilot dunno where you are seeing vanish into tb in opener with MA
alpine pilot
Master Assassin talented
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Vanish
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
scenic quail
Clear cookies and reload the site
alpine pilot
ok
scenic quail
Think that's old
Same issue happened to other rogue in my guild I think
There was a typo in the first version that came out or something like that
alpine pilot
well what is the correct MA opener then?
vital haven
i refuse to believe that is the correct opener
scenic quail
It's basically the same except vanish moves back 2 places as far as I know
alpine pilot
okay
civic palm
vital haven
ive already simmed myself
vital haven
i wanna from ppl here how good is it iin their exp
strange python
@alpine pilot that's not quite accurate you don't want to "mutilate UNTIL 4+ combo points"... because if it doesn't crit, you still want to envenom within the MA window. You can't TB + mut + 2nd mut + envenom withIN 3 seconds
vital haven
????
its dependant on staying still so i wanna what ppl expereiences are with the trait
is that somehow wrong to ask?
civic palm
There's nothing weird about the trait (eg. Dagger in the Bank and Overwhelming Power), it works the way it works.
scenic quail
Although I have seen a mut / rup / mut / garotte opener in logs of some of the better rogues out there
sturdy python
That is the opener on the wowhead guide
civic palm
Unstable Catalyst is much like Galecaller's, depends in if you can use it or not.
vital haven
how often does it proc?\
sturdy python
strange python
For those wanting to follow some guide or a specific priority list... you have to react to the situation (procs, combo points, etc) and use your head. You can use them for a general guide but no APL should always be followed 100% if you are truly trying to min/max dps
civic palm
UC so good you might as well by using Archive > _>
sturdy python
Except that opener doesn’t change no matter what happens
It’s just weird because people have followed the RH openers for so long and wowhead has it different suddenly. More than likely the differences are negligible
strange python
@sturdy python referring to the 2nd MA window obviously... again, use your head
sturdy python
We are talking about openers
scenic quail
Not sure id ever follow a wowhead or icyveins class guide tbh
sturdy python
So use your head
strange python
that IS part of the opener.... you want to use your vanish (2nd MA window) ASAP... what are you on about??
sturdy python
Wowhead is written by Mystler
civic palm
The Wowhead guide is fine this expansion.
scenic quail
Rather just pick through logs of good players than use those sites
sturdy python
He’s our TCer
civic palm
as it's written and maintained by Mystler.
vital haven
it just makes more sense to me that its have like 3 to 4 CP toxic blade then vanish envenom
because then you get another MA mut and envenom
like i dont get why the opener is like that
on wowhead
civic palm
So here's the problem with looking at "good players" and using their opener...
sturdy python
Sandman you’re arguing stupid stuff. People told him that isn’t how you open. I’m saying that is how wowhead has it now
civic palm
Their opener didn't get them to a high parse.
strange python
@sturdy python you're actually trolling just stop. Giving people bad info cuz you like to hear yourself is not appreciated by anyone
civic palm
and I imagine the opener on Wowhead is the way it is because Double Dose is stupid.
sturdy python
After vanish is irrelevant because the discussion is vend>van>Tb or vend>mut>Tb>van>env
I’m in here every day helping people, what bad info have I given @strange python
vital haven
the second one makes much more sense i mean thats the entire point of MA
to get those big envenom crits
vital haven
ya but does the MA opener assume you have 3xDD?
sturdy python
Could ask Mystler maybe
civic palm
The Vanish ~> TB opener is about consistency, reason it's simming higher and is the opener.
lone junco
vanish env mut (2) (No DD) mut (2) (No DD) ayo
sturdy python
There ya go
lone junco
that limp carrot opener.
civic palm
They're not telling you to do the opener that MIGHT deal the most damage.
Ven - tb - env - vanish - mut mut mut mut mut mut mut mut mut mut mut mut mut mut mut mut mut mut
lone junco
you might roll 2x 5s in a row as well.
rose wharf
How viable is assa in M+ right now? Or in general - i had a long break after it's peak in s1
civic palm
Very.
rose wharf
so no need to reroll to sun or outlaw, i kinda dislike the outlaw gameplay
naive cypress
You dont like spamming 2 buttons?`
hollow stone
So you tb before or after van? 🙃🙂🙃🙂🙃
civic palm
Whichever you like.
sturdy python
civic palm
theCorrectAnswerIsAfterVanishYouFuckingMonsters
But that doesn't FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL right!!
hollow stone
But if youre sposta use tb on cd, youre delaying it by doing it after vanish so you should do it before
civic palm
Openers are special :"3
hollow stone
I cant wait to see this discussion tomorrow
civic palm
This is weird because nothing on the Guide changed > _>
coarse carbon
Why do people get so hung up on debating the opener? Perfect opener =/= 100 parses. Worry more about wasted energy, wasted CP's, and the rest of the fight.
civic palm
Because they feel like they don't want to make any "errors".
hollow stone
At this point, we're just joshin'. But yeah
coarse carbon
I know you and Mizerok are, lol. But some of the others... It's just laughable.
civic palm
We're being shitty about it, but people do genuinely care... for whatever reason.
livid bronze
does someone mind taking a look at my logs and providing some feedback? trying to figure out why my dmg /parse% is low https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pbm9KNJwdaTGYjnz/#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=30
quick ice
I'm sure the precise order of your opener is less significant to your overall parse than your ability to deal with mechanics while stabbing the boss and whether you get forced to move away.
civic palm
@livid bronze If your DoTs are under 98% uptime you owe me a Coke.
quick ice
By several orders of magnitude probably, too.
hollow stone
Ohhhhhh
quick ice
You get .14% of a coke.
quick ice
Oof.
livid bronze
yeah ive been having problems getting azerite gear with decent traits
civic palm
Annoyingly at this stage that is going to dictate quite a bit of Damage.
quick ice
Probably 10-15% dps gain just getting better traits, there.
livid bronze
coarse carbon
Zeleo i'd be surprised if your Deathsnap Jerkin with TtK & SS doesn't sim higher as long as you can unlock the +5 ilvl
Or NP + SS on it
I'm sure both would be higher
scenic quail
@rose wharf I do a lot of m+, and my opinion is both sin and outlaw are viable in m+ and actually ideally you should be able to play both well. Affixes, group comp and what key it is determine what spec you play
livid bronze
my heart is only 37 atm 😃 I just got back into raiding a few weeks ago
civic palm
That's enough to get the things that matter.
scenic quail
Tyran weeks with a dh/frost mage in grp, prolly sin for boss dmg. Motherload fort week, outlaw time etc
rose wharf
@scenic quail True but i have to concentrade at one specc at first to get into it again, i don't want to do much raiding with the rogue though, for that i my priest now
civic palm
Since you're running 3xSS and SUB you wanna let the first Empowered Garrote fall off entirely and then Vanish and get 2 Garrotes in there as well as using your CP.
ruby idol
Id side in favor of assa for fort ML but thats being nitpicky a bit
scenic quail
Outlaw on big trash key fort weeks outperforms sin by ~20-30% for me across the dung
civic palm
You also only got 1 ENV in that TB, try for 2 ENV.
rose wharf
My gear is still 3 traits stuff thts going to be a hassle to get the rogue from 375 to 410+
scenic quail
For context I play both at 15-19 key ranges
ruby idol
Fort ML you starve on BF charges if its a key big enough that youre at all worried about the timer
civic palm
yeThatsTheShit
ruby idol
Which is why i say assa. I woulds played it previous weeks but i didnt have EB pieces until now
coarse carbon
Having to refresh garotte in your TB window is never really ideal. Try to plan ahead and ensure your dots afford you the full 9sec TB buff to pump envenoms
civic palm
It's fine so long you get 2 ENV on average really, just don't do it A LOT.
This is a bit of a mess.
sturdy python
The outlaw dream is coming to an end:(
civic palm
In this case you should delay the TB for SOMEWHERE around Vanish and Vendetta.
ruby idol
Nah theres still very few dungeons i think assa is actually the play if youre min maxing
lost horizon
Outlaw's still hype
ruby idol
But there are a handful
lost horizon
In waycrest ohbby
civic palm
Refresh Rupture before the Vanish, if you use a Finisher before the Vanish then you will have 0cp going into it and can Van - G - G
If you don't you can Van - G - Finisher (refresh RUP or ENV) - G.
Also actually USE Yulons.
livid bronze
CP?
coarse carbon
Combo points = CP
civic palm
You can macro Vendetta and Yulons together if you have issues remembering to use it.
#showtooltip
/cast Vendetta
/use Invocation of Yu'lon
like that
Will show CD of Vendetta on the icon still.
livid bronze
thanks
civic palm
If the first ENV is 4/5CP here, just TB and then ENV.
Other than that look through the guides and make sure you are not making any really awful choices;
https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
Also make sure to in case there are bugs (are none atm) or minor questions that might be answered there (eg. Which Enchants should I use?!)
marble hemlock
@ruby idol stop spreading your propaganda in my town
civic palm
O _O
golden relic
man i was blessed today seli
marble hemlock
coming to assa to praise outlaw 
golden relic
opulence head, rasta shoulders AND mekka trinket
fickle viper
outlaw > assa 🏃
golden relic
i got cyphohide aswell but idk , u running x3 TTK cuz of higher keys
or all the time
marble hemlock
ill ban you next time youre on my stream
marble hemlock
id say assa is preferable in ML, KR, Temple, Underrot, and potentially FH/Siege depending on comp
cobalt gyro
horde siege probably
ally siege you definitely want an outlaw to just chain stun the bombers
bleak spoke
can't you jump down as ally
and play the horde side
or do the mobs change or something
near pilot
quick question, whats more important, maintaining EP or pooling energy? going DDx3 with NPx3 and MA
marble hemlock
if TB is coming up, pooling energy
if you just finished one, pool until you have to refresh rupture as late as possible, and then use the EP from that rupture and try to chain 2 or 3 more, at which point you start pooling again because TB will come up
generally id say however, that you should prioritize not refreshing envenom before it hits pandemic over EP, but thats just my personal opinion
near pilot
okay, 2 or 3 EP cycles then pool inbetween TB's, thanks
drifting cloud
dont forget to whisper your locks theyre getting nerfed next week meanwhile
thats the most important part of rotation imo
marble hemlock
esp with multiple DD traits, i feel that its less important to watch out for EP, and more important to not cast another envenom when your current one is still 3sec left
near pilot
yeah it's been whats killing me honestly i try to hard to keep EP up
Thanks for the input
cobalt gyro
@bleak spoke mobs are different
bleak spoke
yikes haha
coarse quartz
visual quartz
patchwerk and do mechanics I dunno
civic palm
Do the mechanics.
sick cedar
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wTaPsPV8GWRnb3ocNMshRb this sims correct, right? FT isbetter than SS/Sub?
im usually outlaw so im a bit dumb
when itcomes to sin
glass seal
For pure single target, and with full uptime on boss, sure.
solid flint
Hey guys, i have a one bit problem with my dps. im ilvl 392.6 and my average dps is 11-13,5k. On hero with vendetta and trinkets its 22 sometimes 31k
my most dificult problem is energy, i dont know if i hit keys too fast or to slow
sometimes i have to pull it and i loss my dps
i should keep it on specific lvl? like 60-100 energy?
visual quartz
could be gear, yeah haste effects energy
dark crag
He means his actuall dps
lone junco
I get that.
dark crag
It's still low
lone junco
Haven't logged at this ilvl yet. But I would expect 18k on gronk prob.
dark crag
How much versa?
round harbor
@ruby idol what build you going for? Davy eb build or sell/morning ttk
solid flint
7%
cobalt gyro
probably should sim your character to see waht your character is capable of doing
solid flint
with simcraft, i didnt get this addon
is there any instruction how to use for assassinatuion rogue on yt?
lone junco
yeah 385
solid flint
any good i mean
lone junco
got some work to do.
lone junco
my rogue has always been tuned pretty well for low ilvl. but just post a log.
solid flint
i ve got rotationhero for helping me
drifting cloud
if youre doing 12k dps its clearly not
solid flint
i see
lone junco
gotta memorize the priorities, and not rely on a helper.
solid flint
idk if its rotation gear or something else
dark crag
First week hc uldir i did 15k as sub
lone junco
if your helper blows vendetta before a swap, youll get fucked
dark crag
A helper for one of the easiest specs cries for making mistakes
ruby idol
@round harbor both
visual quartz
id say if your think its rotation, go hit a dummy and fiddle with it
cobalt gyro
link a log or a sim or something, we can help a lot more than "i do this much"
lone junco
Raidbots import from armory is close enough to see what you should expect. Run one and post it.
dark crag
First you look at your azerite and choose the right talents, then you go to the dummy
dark crag
No
solid flint
k
dark crag
You copy the text and visit raidbots
solid flint
ok
dark crag
There you choose quick sim and see what your char is capable of
Top gear is the next step
solid flint
ok ty
lone junco
Note. The number will be high. Or should be. But rotation matters a bit and kill times /strats with raid matters as well.
solid flint
i run some simulations on raidbots and my dps should be 17,3k
i tried different talents depending on ravenholds guides
and lowest is 16,8 highest 17,3
round harbor
Link the Sims?
rustic ether
still no conclave chest piece fuck my LIFE
terse hinge
6 mins as well, at that. Lol
round harbor
i mena also, you could do like one round of world quests and islands and get a 33 neck level
382 is absudly lower
drifting cloud
his neck is 37, hes just not revered
solid flint
im working on it i just started to play again 2 weeks ago
rustic ether
FUCK i gambled shoulders and got EB Scent
solid flint
and first time i take the game seriously
rustic ether
okay...3SS 2EB 1BI OR 3EB 2 SS 1Scent
i think 3SS 2EB 1BI would be smartest but idk
solid flint
kk i changed it like @cobalt gyro showed
2min fight on dummy and my average dps is about 16-17k
still lot to work on but ty for your help guys 😃
rustic ether
whats more important to sin rogue SS or EB
desert vault
on Underrot which guy do you have to sap to skip platform? priest or the other guy, don't recall its name
drifting cloud
you just have to go to correct side
rustic ether
yeah
desert vault
oh, i need to run it more then 😃
rustic ether
i mean if youre going the side with two matrons, youre already dead
that pack is probably impossible past 15 without heor and most of your gorups cds
desert vault
can you just shroud and hug the edge or do you have to at least distract?
drifting cloud
one pl,atform has matrons, other one has nothing
so you can just shorud past with 0 problems
desert vault
huh ok