i think he got that from the pins
#assassination
steep obsidian
hard gust
i got it from the ravenholdt.net assassination guide
buoyant coyote
playing without SS 
hard gust
yea its an alt character so it doesnt have the best gear lmao
using 2x timewalking daggers :^)
buoyant coyote
idk i refuse to play without SS xD
steep obsidian
yeah i tested ma in heroic this week and it felt terrible im not gonna even bother with it until i get 3 dd
spice surge
Idk i think the opposite, SS with tb feels awful with the garrote>rupture>garrote opener
hard gust
how does ss change the rotation though
spice surge
SS with exsang is nice, probably the smoothest gameplay wise imo
hard gust
🤔
spice surge
Just 2/4 extra cp in the opener and every vanish
hard gust
it only changes the opener and the vendetta windows doesnt it?
spice surge
So its extremly minor
bronze kelp
@hard gust "or less" means, that you wont override an stealth and SS empowered garrote
you just let it run out -> vanish -> double garrote
so you get the max uptime of the empowered garrote
sullen pagoda
3xdd 3x np actually feels nice with MA
hard gust
:+1:
lone junco
I'm glad to be done with this iteration of exang. The disalignment was gross. Legion bracer boot was bota champ.
summer marten
Would it be broken if it was like resto druid artifact ability?:)
blazing kayak
any good assassin rogues to look at for mythic plus or are they all outlaw
spice surge
Morningwind and seliathan (not pushing that high atm though, mostly 19s) still play assa and preform very well
Raider.io shows what spec people played and has leaderboards for m+ keys
tepid ridge
hey guys
any tools to sim Jaina's P3 like fight? I don't think we can do it with raidbot and I'm not used to simc 😦
not sure about my azerite & MA vs Sub
if I sim a 2 min fight we open with an empowered garot so it over-value the trait etc it's annoying
😦
pastel vault
You can do a
max_time=110
override.bloodlust=0
in advanced, 2 target
and check the html for main target dmg
tepid ridge
if I do this it will garrote the 2nd target no?
pastel vault
Yea
tepid ridge
and I wont to min max so ... D:
it feels meh as raidbot
I'm not good enough to sim perfectly what I need to 😦
basically it would be :
-start the fight without stealth
-sim 2 target but only focus of priotarget dmg (only rupt + poison 2nd one)
-100s fight
-and all this with a top gear or gear compare
bronze kelp
not possible in that way on raidbots without a bit of simcraft knowledge i guess
tepid ridge
yeah D:
winter gale
Guys is outlaw way ahead in m+ or I can stick with assa?
clever niche
There are high rank sin rogues so depending on how high your pushing, what gear you have and what you enjoy should be the basis for your choice.
bronze kelp
outlaw is dominating on +15 or above, but assa is still good, as players like morningwind proof
ruby oxide
From the outside looking in, it seems like Outlaw can do more with less optimization of gear/traits
clever niche
Yeah outlaw weapons and at least 1 wits trait seems to be the entry level for m+ outlaw
bronze kelp
and you only need one outlaw weapon. can carry a high ilvl dagger in offhand without loss
ruby oxide
Yeah, I'm rocking a 400 MH and a 410 OH dagger
spice surge
@tepid ridge Jaina p3 is basicly a ST execute fight so just sim that
bronze kelp
same here, but outlaw is benched atm for me
spice surge
Multidotting the elemental is barrely (if at all) a gain
dapper forge
If youre mid reaping pack (15+ mobs) should I just fan of knives-crimson tempest spam?
spice surge
Overvalueing subterfuge is slightly more difficult if you have no prior exp with simc apl though, but in general the jaina p3 should be fairly consistent with your standard ST setup
bronze kelp
when enemy count gets lower or ruptures are running out, use finisher again
raven mica
dapper forge
@bronze kelp ok ty.
bronze kelp
i dont play ct anymore, but that was the way i used it
dapper forge
I have 1 eb and 3ss
bronze kelp
but maybe you are right @raven mica
than ct could be a thing
but on high crit rating + high enemy count u want a constant high energy reg to fok the shit out of your assa
EB crits just boost your dmg pretty well
tepid ridge
@spice surge fucked up with SS if I sim a ST fight with short duration, really not a gain to dot elem? 🤔
spice surge
Its in incredibly minor gain if anything, but mostly its just a loss since you have to autoattack it to keep poisons up
and since you spend like 5cp to get like 80 energy
bronze kelp
or fok to keep posion up
spice surge
Even worse
bronze kelp
^^
tepid ridge
FoK is a bigger loss
spice surge
Theres a reason you never saw any of the method rogues touching the elemental
desert vault
So on 4-8 packs of trash you still just fok to max CP and envenom for the most part right? On reaping you just constantly FoK and don't really cast finishers until the mobs get like sub 4-5 in total?
spice surge
You can constantly fok or you can envenom a mob that has higher health than the others, depends on what you want to achieve
desert vault
Ok, I was watching MorningBryg, and he seemed to fok x3, then finish this was on reaping packs
spreading a ton of ruptures, 3x garrote and then 3-4x ruptures too
bronze kelp
he is running 3ttk
so his envenom is very powerful, cant say exactly if its a win or loss, but if he does prio target dmg, thats his role
desert vault
I'm swapping back and forth from 2x ttk 3x eb and 3x ttk 2x eb
can't decide which i like better
bronze kelp
fok to 5 CP and envenom on his prio target to get it down fast
more ttk -> more prio targer/boss dmg
more eb -> more aoe
simple as that
depends on your group combo
and on affixes
desert vault
I think my 3x EB is a little better cause its 415 vs 400 that gives the 3x ttk
3x Eb is a sure thing of course
desert vault
I guess I'm always looking at how to better my overall numbers, I hear so many guys at 404-405 saying we should never do less than 27k and it is super rare I can ever do that kind of numbers
I mean I run low keys, 11-14s and don't double pot on bosses, etc
bronze kelp
but overall dmg should not be the target
you should aim for finsih the dungeon as fast as you can
u got a fixed group?
or random?
desert vault
No, just pugs mostly, some guild stuff here and there
bronze kelp
hm... then speak with the group members and decide from run to run
warm canopy
Double Dose's dmg is nature, right?
bronze kelp
i switch my azerite normaly depending on what the group needs more
and even with more st/prio dmg orientation you can reach decent overall dps
desert vault
I always 22k+ unless the tank has no clue what they are doing
I did a little FH the other day and we somehow managed to have reaping on second AND third boss, like during the boss encounter ... it was so special
bronze kelp
dafuq?
you should be more careful when selecting tanks
i pushed my score this id a lot, and almost only with random groups, never had issues
rose perch
it's funny because reaping with bosses is something that happens only with very bad and very good tanks
bronze kelp
^^
desert vault
Yeah, well this was certainly not a planned thing I can assure you 😃
tepid ridge
what should I put in APL to start a fight without stealth?
vestal wren
remove the stealth precombat action from the apl
tepid ridge
how can I do this with a gear compare?
vestal wren
you cant
tepid ridge
need to do an advanced one I guess?
vestal wren
iirc raidbots does not support customizing of pre combat actions in the custom apl (what would allow it in gear compare)
so yes you need advanced sim
devout jolt
So, I have a predicament with GCB usage. I dont find myself getting the full duration out of the buff due to the chaos that is raid night with my guild, tanks dying or not taunting and shit. Simming with dice/GCB gives me 23,200 dps where as with dice /spyglass gives me 23,000. With that I am not getting to most out of gcb, would going dice/spyglass be better or is the chance of getting full durations on gcb still worth using it.
onyx rock
You have already answered your question yourself
ruby oxide
@devout jolt always consider that sims are posting numbers for the character played under ideal conditions. I don't think it's ever wrong to make a judgment call, especially based on not feeling like you are able to maintain 100% uptime/CD of an on-use trinket
polar tapir
GCB sims very well, but the majority of bosses in BfD has way too much movement/mechanics that GCB isn't very good for those fights
river zinc
What would be the deciding factor between exsang or TB?
polar tapir
sims 😛
bleak spoke
also consider the strengths of on use trinkets vs passive trinkets though, because it can go the other way. if you don't have much uptime on the boss an on-use trinket might end up giving you a lot more
river zinc
Yea, but sims is a generalized answer. Do certain traits favor Exsang?
bleak spoke
because the ideal conditions both involve hitting the boss all the time
polar tapir
SS obviously favors exsang
bleak spoke
I like exsang for progress alot
force out your damage, reapply dots, go do important shit etc
but on fights where you get giga uptime, having to dodge shit doesn't necessarily mean TB is bad
let's say you're playing conclave and for whatever reason it's literally on you to kidney a raptor that's about to chew your raid apart
it'll suck a lot less to have exsang'd dot rolling on target
compared to having to kidney it in your tb window
polar tapir
that's a very very specific situation tho
bleak spoke
there's a few like that though
you get a bomb on mekkatorque with 5 seconds left until tb
sucks to suck innit
polar tapir
sure, but it requires your exsang to be off cd too
river zinc
Ok thank you that’s a good answer!
So with exsang SS is great, but is it still ideal to get a bunch of DD traits?
bleak spoke
delaying exsang is less detrimental than delay tb though because you're less likely to lose casts of a longer cd over a fight
(that being said i did play TB on mekka and I'll continue to play tb on mekka because of how nicely the cds line)
hollow stone
Dd np w tb will sim higher and 95% of the time is the better choice in a raid environment
bleak spoke
do also keep in mind that you have to set up exsang
hollow stone
Situationally, i can definitely see value in xsang (with the right traits as well)
river zinc
So in raid I currently run. 3xDD 2xtreach 1xNp and that sims higher than 3xDD and 3xNp
bleak spoke
if you just press it on cd without considering the duration of your dots it'll be garbaj
and a very large part of exsang's strength is actually the energy regen
so you could consider the exsang window to literally be the duration of exsang
river zinc
Idk I just am very confused a lot of #1 parses are running Subt SS
winter moss
on mekka oO
hollow stone
Looking at #1 parses when progressing is just bad info
bleak spoke
on mekka definitely like ss subt tb over MA
like when the boss jumps empowered garrote rolls on
winter moss
ya
bleak spoke
that's a larger percentage of your damage than your efficiency with mutilates cast in envenom windows, and extending ep
not that it's not important to do all those things
but getting fucked out of damage is less impactful running subt ss
hollow stone
Meh. Ran MA for our kill. Worked out well for me. Its a pure st fight
Just dont get mechanics
😬
bleak spoke
well yeah ultimately that's how to parse on mekka
don't get bombs don't get shrunk and don't wipe
hollow stone
Yea. Which is why nobody cares about mekka parses
bleak spoke
i've been using mine to track my DD efficiency :x
hollow stone
Tssk tssk
Obv you can still just gotta keep in mind the mechanics you had to do each pull
bleak spoke
i'm starting to suspect that envenom window uptime for mutilate might actually be more important than EP
hollow stone
It almost definitely is with dd
bleak spoke
makes me wonder if playing 3 DD 2 NP 1 TTK might be best in real scenarios
and replacing an NP for SS if playing subt for reasons
NP just refuses to sim well for me, sat at 17% haste with galecallers
i just don't get it
maybe it's the fact that you're guaranteed to cap E opening with galecallers and lust
spice surge
Why would NP be the one you would replace, NP is basicly the same thing as SS except its bound to a single target and doesnt take up a talent slot
hollow stone
Our bis (due to overwhelming power) ends up being 3dd, 1tc, 1np, 1ttk. If memory serves
spice surge
Its blightborne rather than tc, but yea
spice surge
If there was a piece with DD/NP/overwhelming it would be better though 😉
hollow stone
Fo sho
white anvil
Yo, would you guys constitute a Galecallers as a worthy substitute to Plumage until I can get it if I'm running x3 DD, x2 NP, x1 TTK?
hollow stone
Yes
spice surge
Well yeah galecallers is fine
white anvil
Aight, thx!
hollow stone
I find you can always tell the rogues from last tier based on their reaction to gcb
desert vault
So overwhelming power is just miles beyond everything else right?
like a 415 ttk+unstable+op is going to be way beyond a 400 dd+ss+ gutripper?
bleak spoke
hey someone else has that garbage chestpiece i do too!
sim it but it's probably better
short lark
!Azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
autumn stag
Does EB stack?
autumn stag
sweet
desert jungle
You guys are saying ttk is bis, but my sims are telling me ss is better. Is the right answer to go with my own sims?
cobalt pelican
i don't think anyone said ttk is bis, 1 ttk is a part of the 'bis gear' setup this tier
hollow stone
Yea. Ttk as a trait is not bis
desert jungle
Got it. Thanks
bleak spoke
Other than the mastery trinket that’s gonna kill the shit out of me what else looks good from new raid
hollow stone
Just cloak it
bleak spoke
Wait actually 1 million iq
Nice slowly every assa utility cd will become a damage cd
hollow stone
Im so pumped for all questions about how to cheese it
"Can you evasion storm trinket?"
spice surge
Iirc you couldnt cloak the debuff of on ptr
You can cloak the damage, but not the debuff
hollow stone
But yea. What eleem said seems to make sense. Im not on the ptr.
"Whats the best time to cloak for trinket?"
"It sims best but idk, it feels risky, should i actually use it?"
I think on release we take a couple days off this disc lol
royal lantern
pug groups will be hell with it
i allready see 13 people use it on pull and drain healer mana
hollow stone
Lol
prisma creek
!Azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
worldly iron
the what now?
hollow stone
According to eleem on ptr cloak wont reset the stacks but will immune the dmg during cloak's duration (like vectis). If i understood him correctly
So it would be a dps cd :p
strange python
What trinket are you talkinga bout?
vestal wren
the trinket from the new raid
hollow stone
Its called lurker's gift or something like that
royal lantern
i see dead rogues
vestal wren
odd hatch
Just wait till it chunks you, cloak, get healed with cloak, drop stacks, repeat. Ez 1 billion damage
vestal wren
you can look the trinkets up there
strange python
I guessed that was the trinket you talked about, but how would that make any difference with cloak?
royal lantern
that use cloak as a ''offensive'' cd and not as a deffensive
vestal wren
i already see dead healer 😛
royal lantern
nah,you will just not be able too use it all the time
hollow stone
The healer trinket from the raid is a biiiig shield. They can just shield your trinket w their trinket, itll be fine. Everyone will be fine. Nobody will die
No way
royal lantern
because i gurantee that a shitton of people want them, but healers simply cant mannage the dmg
odd hatch
Just pop Crimson vial and heal yourself. Ez fix
hollow stone
Stacking up to 20k mastery seems good tho
odd hatch
Honestly leech poison isn't gonna be meh anymore as well
hollow stone
XD
strange python
20k? I don't get anything how that works. Maybe I have to watch a video
odd hatch
Obv it'd be better with more scaling, but dodge mechanics and it'd work
strange python
I mean, that is not what it says
vestal wren
i dont think the mastery increase
vestal wren
strange python
Exactly
hollow stone
Yea. Lol
strange python
One buff, One debuff
vestal wren
its 1.1k mastery for 30 secs
odd hatch
Worth
hollow stone
This is what happens when you dont relook stuff up
vestal wren
but 30 secs will cost you ~400k hp
royal lantern
@hollow stone you expect people too look stuff up and not just see big dmg numbers and drolling over it without understanding that it will probably not be ussable in raids?
its the same with the opulence caster trinket
nice and everything
but actually ussules in the raid
cus you need too stack all the time
strange python
I mean where do you see that the mastery is per stack and per sec? @hollow stone
hollow stone
I didnt. I was going off memory and was incorrect
vestal wren
the mastery is not per stack, its flat 1.1k mastery
vestal wren
but 1.1k is still a huge chunk
strange python
it sure is
hollow stone
😎
real bay
just get an extra healer 4head
royal lantern
just for your information
a hpriest serenity(wich is a really big heal) is ~90k on 1min cd
vestal wren
just get 3 hpriest cd's for max padding
royal lantern
yes, cd reduced etc...but they need that stuff for the actuall fight too
AND you need too understand that for all healers heavy spot healing means that they go oom in no time
primal gazelle
does faint wit elusive work on it
royal lantern
cant parse when healers go oom
royal lantern
really, you all should touch a healer for 10seconds lol
primal gazelle
nope never
royal lantern
most raidfights end with healers at 5%or less mana
primal gazelle
in all the years ive played wow, never touch a healer spec 😛
royal lantern
healers are almost always at the same mana% as the boss is at health
odd hatch
Vivify
vestal wren
most healers dont use their cooldowns efficient
tbh
thats bc. they want to push heal logs
viral moat
hi guys quick trait question...currently running with (head) apothecary's covenant, (shoulders) nothing personal and (chest) shrouded suffocation. I just got another shoulder same ilevel which has shrouded suffocation on it. im stuck with the apothecary covenant as its by far my highest ilevel item but would i be better off running 2x ss or remain ss and nothing personal? raidbots says running with nothing personal gives me 100dps extra but icy-veins says stacking ss is better? any help would be appreciated!
royal lantern
you all think too simple imo
vestal wren
(and yes, thats a thing)
odd hatch
I know on my healer I'll dump 30-40% at the end of a fight
royal lantern
but now immagine 5 or 6
you need CD's for that, cus CD's are the heavy aoe healing tools
vestal wren
it could become an issue yes
royal lantern
and in raids healer struggle with mana anyway, healing in raids is pure mana managment
people take avoidable dmg=you waste mana=next mistake will wipe you because stuff is now on cd/mana is slowly going out
royal lantern
(i really dont like the idea of taking dmg too do more dmg as trinkets because it will be hell with dps greedy cunts that have 0 clue about actuall healing)
interesting idea yes
vestal wren
i also think it does not fit well into wow
royal lantern
but the community has no clue how you play around it, most people dont look at the group in group content
vestal wren
but 🤷 i rather have sth like this that screws up logs for the majority then borring trinkets
royal lantern
i can gurantee you now
if you use the trinket all the time on multiple pulls
some healers will just stop healing you so you dont do it anymore
harlans boring dice
6months BiS now 😦
crimson girder
More a statement to how bs warforging and titanforging is
royal lantern
allright, i looked it up
hpriest ilv 410, Holy Word: Serenity heals for 67k baseline on a 1min cd and cost 4%of your mana
the aoe heal is prayer of healing, wich is a 2sec cast too heal 5people for 8400 each
4,5%mana
will be fun when people use it without coordination^^
(for people that really never touched a healer at all, most aoe heals cant heal more then 5 or 6 people at once, only CD's can heal an entire raid)
full pagoda
Hey guys, I'm wondering, is it ok to use x2 EB traits in tyrannical weeks or it's ok just for 15+ keys?
rough thunder
i've done 13 TD 10+ to get that daggor and still nothing, i have thousand trinkets instead ><
primal gazelle
yes its fine to use 2 eb for tryannical
hollow stone
Yea. Eb still good. Lots of trash time even on tyr
royal lantern
@crimson girder has nothing too do with TF tbh, my 400 dice is better then most raid trinkets because all raid trinkets so far in bfa are simply bad
primal gazelle
wasnt legion the same way? theres a trinket from MOS thats exactly same as dice
and it was bis for a while
its probably a good thing they made it this way, trinkets from M+ are farmable and available than raid trinkets
royal lantern
eh, they could atleast make interesting raid trinkets
aoe dmg, a bleed proc, gain and lose crit
vigor is the only trinket that is somewhat cool
but you end up using it just at 6 stacks anyway
crimson girder
Well, mythic plus has definitely has helped make things easier. Imagine a world where the highest dice you could get is base 370. Then you'd find the vigor trinket alot more attractive.
fleet whale
i kind of like the dead-eye spyglass but only because you can keep it up for a really long time
primal gazelle
pretty sure blizz is against bis raid trinkets, they had convergence of fate BIS for alot of classes back in NH, it was so good to the point people kept running NH into the next tier just for lucky TF procs on it, eventually blizz just nerfed the trinket down to shit
crimson girder
Though I get that's not wf or tf
royal lantern
if m+ would drop 400 nobody would do it
why the fuck would it only give 370 anyway
thats lower then the mythic lvl gear from the LAST raid tier
fleet whale
370 is base M0 drops
regal carbon
I think they screwed up with the arcanocrystal worse than the NH trinket
crimson girder
I'm a BC and WotLK guy. Came back late legion. I just remember those days too well. Where upgrades were raiding and that's it.
royal lantern
m0 is not m+
fleet whale
yeah, but there was a time that M+ did not exist. If there was no M+, our pool of trinkets would be much smaller
i think that is what he is trying to say
but idc how my healers are gonna feel, if i get the Lurker's Gift, I'm using the hell out of it
royal lantern
the only cool trinket in this raid is the opulence caster one
and then its not really ussable on the last 2 fights
hollow stone
So, using the trinket (just 1 person) would require an avg of 13,114hps for the full duration. Times that by multiple people and youve got some harsh hps requirements. Most healers are in the 30k hps range over the course of the fight. This will cause problems (like tryan is saying)
royal lantern
i dont say that you cant use it
they gonna be really frking strong
but it needs coordination
hollow stone
Yea. Just backing up what youre saying w numbers
royal lantern
and not just ''lul use it with my cd all the time''
full pagoda
@primal gazelle So, mate, what is the edge between assa good ST and aoe, without going into too much aoe orientation to feel like outlaw? Maybe 2 ss, 2 eb and 1-2 ttk. Give me an example of great set up for tyrannical week.
hollow stone
He's gonna know better. But i ran 2ttk, 2eb, 2ss this week and timed multiple 15-16s. Id recommend a set up like that if your group can deal w reaping well without you pulling crazy reap numbers
primal gazelle
i play with 3 EB 2 SS 1 TTK
tbh ill never drop to 2 EB unless its for TOS/KR or Tol
the difference between 2 eb and 3 eb is massive
strange python
why the fuck does every zt interrupt wa i get
not work
its not on never load either
pissed me right off
cobalt gyro
I pretty much run the same
royal lantern
@hollow stone thats slightly less healing then the guy that has the grong orb
and that guy allready needs too be watched out
hollow stone
Yea. Totally manageable with just 1 person. Starts to get dicey with more than that
I mean, we'll have to see in practice. Maybe you keep it up only 20 sec during vend. That would reduce the hps required by a lot
fresh robin
thoughts on practical overall raiding traits? mutilate is really good pure ST but you just get destroyed on cleave fights without ss. doubt my guild will let me hearth and change traits between bosses to parse rofl
hollow stone
You could just stay a st specialist and not care about parses as long as youre getting the kills
full pagoda
@primal gazelle Kinda surprised you got 3 EB in tyrannical, perhaps you do very high keys?
royal lantern
not letting you hearth and change traits for progress raiding oO?
full pagoda
Anyway thanks for the help
hollow stone
A lot, if not all, of the bosses this tier require prio damage. Just be the prio dmg god
primal gazelle
i run 20-21 keys and i still use 3 eb for tyrannical yes
fresh robin
lol i am the prio dmg god but my parses look pathetic smh
full pagoda
Wow
hollow stone
You should still be able to get purple parses playing st on every boss this tier
fresh robin
i went SS for the first few bosses and got like high 80s/low 90s. but i just wanna be top of the meter every fight
feel me?
lmao
primal gazelle
it would require a significant amount of damage to kill a boss 20-30 sec faster
full pagoda
Well I do 13-15 keys so the adds die slightly faster prolly than +20, so 2 should be ok
hollow stone
Switch your meter to show boss dps. Youll be at the top for the most part :p
fleet whale
if you want to be top of the meter every fight play a demo lock with explosive potential
primal gazelle
meanwhile if you spec for aoe, as long as you clear the rest of the dungeon quickly with aoe, you can enter the last boss with 5-6 mins remaining, which is way more than enough even if you have shit ST
fresh robin
lol just tryna flex out here, hard with all these spriests and locks
royal lantern
@fleet whale its getting nerfed, dont worry
primal gazelle
demo locks getting rekt by 15% in 8 days so rip them lol
fleet whale
or roll spriest when that happens
hollow stone
The diff between mid-high keys is not as much as youd think when you factor in everything. If youre pushing higher keys, you likely have a better comp, group, gear, etc. So packs will still die roughly the same pull durations, i would try to do what dayv is saying. If possible
He pumps
full pagoda
@hollow stone Hmm you've got a point
primal gazelle
i usually lose to my BM/DH in ST dmg by 1-2k dps per boss, but i beat them in overall damage by a significant amount
if i put on some more ST traits i can keep up with them, but i dont think gaining 1-2k dps per boss is worth losing 5-8k overall dungeon damage
fresh robin
traits really depend like what your group comp is like too, when im running with people i dont play with regularly
you can ask if theyre aoe or st
and try to balance around that
go eb if you need the trash clear, st traits if they want the juicy boss deeps
i kinda miss the days where everyone knew what bis was and that was always bis, rather than getting like a new item having to go parse it in 3 different scenarios
full pagoda
I can't deny that it's so so so orgasmic with the insane aoe into reaping
royal lantern
i like min/maxing for different situations
full pagoda
Fucking love it
fresh robin
yeah i mean the min maxing is its own niche
hollow stone
Cant win. People beg for options, they get them, so we complain that there isnt bis. People want bis, we get it, people complain game is boring and there's no choice.
drifting cosmos
Miss when you can gear swap
fresh robin
but i enjoyed when i can crush the meters no matter the scenario
just because i play better
hollow stone
Brb, going to work for blizz. I figured it out
fresh robin
not because i got cucked on rng gear drops
royal lantern
dude
you will be better then somone that was just lucky with gear when you play better
fresh robin
ehhhhhhhhhhhhh
mint peak
I don't miss having 8 sets of gear I had to swap in the middle of runs tbh. With Az traits it would be horrendous
fresh robin
i have a 405 and 400 dagger still
5 bosses down in mythic
2400 mmr in 3s
still no dagger
so these spriests with their 420 box weapons
just crush
royal lantern
loot rng is part of all mmos dude
idk wath you expect lol
or did you get a dagger after killing 5bosses in wotlk with a 100%chance?
you complain about something that was in the game since day1 lol
quiet crescent
Personal loot compounds the problem though.
fresh robin
aye
its frustrating when you put in so much time
down all avenues of the game
and still get cucked cuz theyve turned wow into a huge loot box simulator
been playing on and off since aalpha btw, love the game, just saying
loot crates are killing games
royal lantern
you are just ussing buzzwords now
feels like r/gaming
like, wtf has loot drops too do with lootboxes wtf
fresh robin
well its all compounded by the direction theyve taken the game
royal lantern
i didnt get my shadowfang trinket in antorus 4 months into the raidtier
lone junco
Uses cuck in a sentence.
Expects response
🚪
quiet crescent
Personal loot, plus azerite being rewarded for not trading , makes the loot situation this xpac kinda awk.
idle vigil
@primal gazelle does huge aoe with triple eb compete with combat?
lone junco
Standard bet: within a year they make all loot soulbound (except trash now)
lone junco
@idle vigil eb has infinite sustain. Outlaw has waves.
fresh robin
"back in my day" quags eye was bis throughout all of tbc and dropped in slavepens heroic
primal gazelle
ya they are 1% away from each other imo, literally top #1 and #2 specs in terms of aoe dmg in dungeons
fresh robin
farmed that everyday for like 3 months
quiet crescent
I feel good when I get a juicy tforge I can trade
Would be really annoying to just DC it.
lone junco
Meh. It's your loot. You earned the 52g
fresh robin
its nice when you can put in "work/hours" towards what you want, rather than just doing your m10, high ratings, then waiting for tuesday
is all im trying to infer here
lone junco
(I liked guild master loot)
royal lantern
where is the difference bettwen running a BC dungeons too get a bis trinket
and run a m10 dungeon too get a bis trinket
tell me now lol
fresh robin
content doesnt die, loot aquisition does
go get 2700 in 3s
my dude
or 2k raider io
royal lantern
there we go
lone junco
What's the carrot if there is no additional ilvl.
fresh robin
meters/prowess?
royal lantern
''im 5k 2/3/RBG CUTTING EDGE AND 5K RIO, YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID''
i love that stuff lol
quiet crescent
Bis is not obtainable anymore. Sockets and tforge baby!
primal gazelle
i need 2 more sockets on my trinkets
hollow stone
Unpopular opinion, i know, but i think the loot system (this tier) is just fine. If youre hardcore and wanna grind m+ forever, you can, and you always have that chance of an upgrade. If you dont wanna do that, you dont have to and will still be competitive. I think if people want to grind hard, they should be rewarded. And from a probability perspective this works perfectly. I also really like how TR works. But, come at me w your disagreements
primal gazelle
to complete my socket collection
fresh robin
now you're just putting words in my mouth lol
round harbor
@hollow stone only change to TR I'd make is make 400 and 385 specific pieces available
But yeah
lone junco
^.
mint peak
The only thing that's kinda whack about loot is getting a better item than your main has for doing a Warfront on your alt. But then again it's nice on your alt to get geared up super fast so it's not all that bad, just kind of weird from a rewards vs difficulty standpoint
round harbor
I'd love to spend like 1k ish on a specific 400 god piece for offspec
hollow stone
Thats fair. I havent touched my alt this tier for fear of them making me swap again. Didnt even know you couldnt get specific 400s. That is kinda silly
round harbor
But also, I agree if you want the best gear. You can grind. Im near full bis in 400+ loot
With sockets everywhere
Just cause I farm alot vs people in my raid that raid log have shit gear and shit stats on the decent gear that they do have
quiet crescent
Rawr but a 395 demo lock still sims higher 😘
idle vigil
Loot system is so far from fine
idle vigil
It’s literally rng on top of rng
round harbor
People put too much stock into that shit
royal lantern
if you care about dps so much
reroll every single patch
like really
wath do you expect
marble hemlock
wdym rawrzilla
quiet crescent
When people say they dont believe sims it reminds me of anti-vaxxers
marble hemlock
my goal is to be #1 sim dps
fresh robin
what i was trying to say, is its nice to have a goal to achieve rather than an infinite hamster loop of well i can farm this dungeon 600 more times hopping to get wf/tf/socket, rather than putting that time towards completing m20s across the board
round harbor
@marble hemlock cx
hollow stone
Id rather have rng that lets me keep seeking upgrades than hit bis 2 months into a tier and bench my char. But again, opinion
mint peak
How is a sim garbage. It tells you exactly what it advertises - this is the theoretical DPS of a character build under certain conditions. If you don't know how to interpret that it's not the sim's fault
marble hemlock
once youre #1 sim dps on wowprogress, you won the game
fresh robin
^_^
primal gazelle
my goal is to be #1 wcl sin dps in dungeons 
marble hemlock
only sim dps matters
royal lantern
i want cutting edge, dont care about my dps ._.
hollow stone
See above @fresh robin
blissful tide
I’m still waiting for my helmet from champions feelsbad
primal gazelle
you know that feeling when you pick up your 2nd cowl off champions in a pug, then half the raid whispers you for it
hollow stone
I do like that there is bis azerite tho. Gives you a "bis" feeling and then you fill in the rest with m+ tf n sockets.
Maybe i just like grinding :p
fresh robin
yeah i get that, but at the same time, id rather know my character is the best i can get it "item wise" then compete on an even footing at end game
blissful tide
Oh I don’t give people azerite but I also don’t pug anymore
fresh robin
i guess its more of what we view as the end game
round harbor
Jozz you'll never be on an even foot
fresh robin
yeah i know, not anymore
round harbor
It's a mythical accomplish ment
blissful tide
I pugged h champions because it’s still better than the m opulance helm
hollow stone
Yea. Thats a cool thought too. But then, again, imo, you lose the drive to raid because you already have bis. Then youre just raiding for parses, which i dont find especially enjoyable
round harbor
I mean you could have 100percent bis gear all socketed and tittyforged. If you monk doesn't log in for the raid ur not gonna be even
hollow stone
My favorite part is progression. And i think a lot of people agree. And during prog, you wont have bis ever. Even historically
fresh robin
yeah i get that as well, i pvp and pve, so i use both avenues to do better in the other
hollow stone
Thats true. I barely do arena now and used to grind way more. If i could get bis i would be much more willing to get back into it
round harbor
Apple have u heard of the legend of ericjunior
hollow stone
Oo story time
round harbor
The madlad gets actual bis like every tier first boss kill
fresh robin
i guess my real gripe is just the fact that its so hard to obtain what you want these days and some people can put in less hours by a mile and get what you want you know?
round harbor
God tier trinket for Hunter? Yeah he gonna get Max titanforge first kill, Max ilvl bow? Yeah he got dat
hollow stone
Fricken hunters man
fresh robin
mmos have historically awarded time investment and skill and it seems theyre detering from that
more and more
hollow stone
I bet ericsenior is proud tho
round harbor
Jozz do u do m+
primal gazelle
im not too worried about gear tbh, by end of the tier youll have almost max every slot and all azerites
fresh robin
yeah i mean not hardcore
round harbor
Like 10s is all you need to farm effective
blissful tide
It took me 25 waycrests to get a balefire on my mage last season
blissful tide
First freehold I did on my rogue this season I got my dice
fresh robin
i tend to enjoy pvp more than m+
round harbor
@blissful tide hate to see it. We saw a 415 socketed one last night
round harbor
Balefire that is. I got 405socket Harlan's last night too
blissful tide
Yeah I didn’t even have it drop for me
I begged someone else for it
Lol
The bale
fresh robin
do they still have the added chance in the game for doing high m+ to affect titanforging in boxes?
primal gazelle
ive completed 30 freeholds this season, my highest dice is only 405 no socket 😦
fresh robin
i dont even know lul
fresh robin
its just residue increase right?
fresh robin
so i can further embrace the rnjesus
royal lantern
dont try too get that 425 items from dungeons guys.....
fresh robin
or save for 2 months and get what i want i guess lol
hollow stone
Why..?
royal lantern
like i said before
hollow stone
@royal lantern
royal lantern
if you want too farm it, ye ofc do it, but the chance is so low, why do it
im happy with 400
hollow stone
Yea. Ok. Gotcha, we same page :p
blissful tide
I mean if they enjoy doing freehold then they do what they want, but I wouldn’t expect getting a 425 w/socket any time soon
round harbor
It's not that* low
royal lantern
thats wath i mean
round harbor
On a nightly basis we see multiple 420 and 425s
fresh robin
really?
round harbor
Just getting it on the right pieces of gear and toons
fresh robin
can i get some numbers on that
hollow stone
Yea. I like to think of base mythic gear as "best ilvl" (so 415 in this tier). And then anything over that is just gravy
fresh robin
how many runs what lvl dungeon
royal lantern
dont play too get that 420 socket item, TF is a small bonus, not your main gearing goal imo
fresh robin
do people take ass rogues in 17? or is it mostly memelaw
round harbor
Sure
fresh robin
i mean i check some m+ rogue streams and most the time i see double combat rogue
round harbor
I can do easy 30k in every key as sin
primal gazelle
oo rawr you actually completed more m+ dungeons than me this season 😛
royal lantern
people that think that sin is bad this season have 0 clue lol
fresh robin
doing 130k on reaping
primal gazelle
youre at like 172 ish im 142
round harbor
I'm a no life
hollow stone
Find a group that realizes youre a better rogue than they are and then do your own thing. As long as youre timing keys people wont complain
round harbor
Haven't seen anyone else run it yet
hollow stone
Fh is bae
lone junco
Jesus take the wheel. This is general topics.
honest needle
do u still stack 3ss for m_ and 1 echoe ?
primal gazelle
we almost timed a 21 fh yesterday, entered last boss with 7 minutes to spare but then our dh died 4 times on the shark boss and ripped the key 😦
primal gazelle
he kept getting 1 shot by the charge
round harbor
Jeaus
honest needle
does any 1 kno
round harbor
Yikes
primal gazelle
by standing between the boss and the shark
honest needle
best traits for m+
spice surge
SS/EB/TTK
lone junco
SS/echo/ttk. Gl.
honest needle
how many of each ss and echo
round harbor
I think with our route and a better range dps we could do a 21 fairly easily
honest needle
and whats ttk
lone junco
If you are gonna leech that hard, just sim Dungeon slice.
primal gazelle
yea i was kinda upset since freehold is so easy this week without eudora on tyrannical
and it was my key 😦
honest needle
i wanted to kno if 3 ss and 1 echo is good or do i want more echo and less ss
round harbor
@honest needle just look at logs
primal gazelle
bm hunter
round harbor
Nice bm hunters own
primal gazelle
yea he pumps pretty hard
primal gazelle
im usually top, hes 2nd and the dh 3rd on overall dmg
fresh robin
depends on the mods/how your tank pulls/how your groups setup
lone junco
Sim your pieces. It depends on your kit.
honest needle
i didint even kno there was m+ logs
lone junco
And pulls. And restealth. And group comp.
primal gazelle
i did a 19 tos with barackosham yesterday and hes like 2800 io
i chuckled a bit when he died 3 times on the 1st boss
lone junco
Tell him to feint. People love that.
fresh robin
so outside of simming, which i know is best, is there like a general consesus
of ilvl vs traits
primal gazelle
oh word spell reflect lol
fresh robin
say 385 vs 415
round harbor
Yeah
Spell reflect on a 20 was hitting for 1.1m
So 1.1m times three casts of spell reflect
honest needle
do u log the same for m+ as u do for raid cause when i try to log after raid when i do a m+ my mythic plus never shows up on logs
round harbor
monkaS
fresh robin
say dropping mutilate /ss piece at 415 down to 385 eb/ss for m+?
primal gazelle
loggin raid and m+ is the same way
sick cradle
Is Invocation of Yulon ever good?
lone junco
If you want to use eb. Gotta have the crit for it.
Can't be a high haste limp critter.
fresh robin
makes sense
lone junco
30+ with trinkets.
fresh robin
ill have to mess with that
ive already got like a haste/crit for raiding, mastery/haste for pvp
honest needle
how come when i log for raid it works but when i do m+ nothing shows up
primal gazelle
link me your character
m+ logs is on a diff section in wcl
instead of "Battle of D" you press "Mythic Dungeons"
fresh robin
there any rogues that stream high m+ as sin atm? or have they mostly converted to outlaw
primal gazelle
morningwind and seli does
fresh robin
the couple i used to follow have, smh
round harbor
@primal gazelle if he ever gets his shit together
fresh robin
lul
round harbor
I stream sometimes by request
primal gazelle
LOL
round harbor
I'm not ultra high though
primal gazelle
its too much work 😦
primal gazelle
me and rawr part of the top 1% club but not .1% club 😛
primal gazelle
my stream will be literally me sitting in org afk 50% of the time
round harbor
Me too
Professional student and gold digger
Wife make that $$$ and I get to spend it
Ezclapper
uneven bolt
If im not using any SS, I should go for MA right?
uneven bolt
ah, i went for 2 dd/ 1 np / 1 twist / treacherous instead 1 dd...etc, so yeah D:
not sure atm
round harbor
That sounds fine
fresh robin
yeah i run triple mutilate 1 np 1 tc and 1 sob [not by choice]
and go ma
its super strong for st
desert vault
1350 crit, before dice+spyglass, prolly isn't enough for 3x EB? Need 1500?
uneven bolt
aight ty ❤
fresh robin
ma openers are the most fun thing in the game honestly
seeing your dps spike to like 70k
is a+
round harbor
@desert vaultr u gemming and enchanting into critical?
desert vault
@round harbor Nah, prolly need to though 😦
lone junco
@uneven bolt ma in raid only. No ma in M+
round harbor
Oh no
fresh robin
on pull our other rogue and me are like double everyone for a solid 10 secs or so
lol
round harbor
Ur gonna trigger dvy
uneven bolt
so if i want to do m+s i should just switch from 2 dd, to 1 dd and 1 ss?
primal gazelle
LMAO
uneven bolt
lul
round harbor
Inb4 ma in m+
uneven bolt
yikes
uneven bolt
kek
round harbor
I can see it, but I can also see energy issues
lone junco
It was only good in legion due to yolo pbombs.
fresh robin
brings me back to legion shoulders
lone junco
Afk. Talking that old shit.
uneven bolt
PFF
round harbor
I have a hard time seeing three globals of MA being more DMG than three garrotes
But maybe
round harbor
Also if your first MA for doesn't give full cp it's a ripper
lone junco
If the garrotes live. It's like 35 e out. 9 ticks of 7 in.
primal gazelle
ma will only pull ahead on reaping, and not the rest of the dungeon
desert vault
1420 crit and 800 mastery seems so-so for 3x EB?
round harbor
@desert vault should be fine. I'd run double. Critical trinkets with that thouh
desert vault
I do, dice+spyglass
round harbor
I'm at like 1900 crit with razzashi/deadeye or deadeye/harlans
fresh robin
the only problem with ma is like... its god tier for pure st, but you cant really parse on raid fights with it, too many opportunities to cheese cleave with garottes
in almost every fight
lone junco
@primal gazelle You gonna FOK FOK FOK tab ruptures, then vanish FOK FOK FOK?
primal gazelle
probably throw up more ruptures before vanish again
so the ruptures will also gain from MA
lone junco
Then just stay vanished.
primal gazelle
lool
fresh robin
LOL
lone junco
Wait for E.
fresh robin
"while stealth is active"
hes just discovered the new meta
put bleeds up on everything
vanish afk
round harbor
@fresh robin whatchu mean
fresh robin
master assassin meta dude
round harbor
Tons of top parses use MA
lone junco
I keed. But I did do that in some Timewalk. SS. G g.g Ct vanish. Shoulder Afk.
fresh robin
im just kidding
lone junco
4p. 20 with SS. Big yikes.
fresh robin
why isnt exsang any good with how decent ss is atm? that used to be a thing
lone junco
Would lol to shoulder crit the soul cap.
lone junco
Exang is ok. But it's just energy return. OR designed to overlap the entire SS in a 10 sec buff. Or snapshot haste.
spice surge
Wdym with how strong SS is atm
Its been getting weaker and weaker, since TB scales better with gear
lone junco
Yeah. The desync of exang makes my carrot limp.
lone junco
Anyway. It's ok. Tb is way better with DD
royal lantern
why MA is always only 0,1%
primal gazelle
i feel like im not using vanish effectively as a cd, there isn't always 6 targets in every pull, if i use it midpull after the 1st garrotes drop, theyre almost already dead anyways so itll be a waste, and its definitely a dps loss using it in reaping because they die before it full ticks off, and its alot of energy to cast 3 garrotes. So sometimes I find myself just holding vanish
someone teach me pls
lone junco
@primal gazelle seli talked about tracking teammate outlaw buffs. Cause anytime he goes for the vanish ggg And the outlaw had a good pair, It's completely wasted.
fresh robin
well thats what i meant by ss being strong
ma parses better but in functionality ss/subter usually outshines it
lone junco
SS in a ggg condition doesn't mean much w/r/t exsang.
SS subterfuge works just fine with tb.
spice surge
Well yeah subter is generally more useful
But almost all of the hardest bosses this tier has no use for subter cleave
So MA is better
lone junco
Ending a SS exang ONLY lets you replace it with an extra 9 sec of base garrote.
round harbor
BuT GrOnG aDdS
fresh robin
well you cant just think of it as energy, its also cutting ur bleed duration in half
or by however much, i havent math'd it out
but thats more dps
lone junco
I. Just did.
primal gazelle
if you have 5 secs left of a non-empowered garrote, then you vanish garrote once and it pandemics to 22 secs, is the entire 22 sec empowered?
spice surge
Yes
spice surge
Same if you do the opposite, applying a regular garrote to a subterfuged on that is in pandemic will "waste" the remaining duration of subterfuge
primal gazelle
during vanish
lone junco
Correct. But the cps with SS are valuable.
round harbor
Not technically, but it'd be missing ticks
spice surge
Just once yes, or twice if you had low duration on it (like 2/3)
round harbor
Of the empowered
round harbor
Yeah
lone junco
If you have enough targets to. G tab gg. Do that. Or g tab g tab g tab. But in single you would still. Vanish gg.
primal gazelle
what if i have 10 secs left of garrote and vanish/vendetta came up, do i wait for it to drop to 5 secs before i vanish?
lone junco
Depends if the delayed vanish messes with end of boss timings.
I wouldn't delay for that. The limp garrote prior is worth very little.
If the prior is empowered. You do want to delay the vanish gg.
Open 23s. Then vanish gg for another 23
primal gazelle
oo fuck
lone junco
Any remaining time left on the empowered. When you vanish gg. Is chopped off the end.
primal gazelle
ive been refreshing at 5 secs for my empowered garrotes in the openers
rip my life
thanks
mint peak
Oh no lol
primal gazelle
reevaluating my life decisions rn
primal gazelle
2400 io btw
doesnt know how to use openers correctly
might as well call me musclebrah
lone junco
It's ok. I still use prolonged power.
primal gazelle
thanks to you i will now do .1% more dps
royal lantern
is there something i need too know as assassination for mekka?
bad overlap with cd's etc
spice surge
Second vendetta can be used very liberally
You will not get a third one before intermission anyway
So you can hold vendetta for like 1 min without losing a cast
primal gazelle
i had to actually type out the colors for this guy, he got out and left me in there to die 😦
because mekka drops bis crit trinket for m+ duh
royal lantern
its probably better for yourself too buy a boost then pugging mekka ._.
round harbor
True
tender frost
any of you use deeper strategem when master assassin is talented?
lone junco
No sin I know of is using DS right now.
tender frost
I'm just playing around with stuff. I havent had to use MA very often.
lone junco
@primal gazelle can't you get into guv spk heroic pug?
lone junco
Nice.
primal gazelle
but we do it with another guild, so imagine 2 guilds 30 man raid in 2 separate discords trying to do mekka
lone junco
I ran a few with them In legion. Didn't embarrass myself too bad.
untold stream
If you guys had the choice, would you go 3 Double Dose + Master A or 2 DD + 1 Shroud + sub ? (with the same ilvl)
mint peak
In raid just go MA IMO. Not that many fights where SS is that effective
lone junco
Most of the vanish cleave (robot gonk) gets handled by others.
But one SS or even subterfuge with 3dd no SS is still viable.
Just need to play it properly. All are using TB right now.
hollow stone
Can we just sit in vanish with MA buff during tb and vend w 3np yet?
fresh robin
had this convo earlier its kinda like if u wanna parse ur prolly better off whoring with ss, but i mean if ur there to kill bosses and do effective dps ma 3dd is strong
hollow stone
😬
fresh robin
for example like champion i got a 92 parse running subter, vanishing adds and whatever, but when i run ma i do the most boss damage by a several percent but only parsed a 58%
hollow stone
You gotta hella cheese to get a big champ parse. Sub 2min kill, people holding on adds, run ss (maybe even exsang). And there you go. But like you said, as far as group dmg goes, thats a waste
Which is why i never recommend looking at top parses
lilac lily
I'm using 3x DD with subterfuge, 99/100 parse
fresh robin
any ss?
lilac lily
no
fresh robin
and thats mythic parse?
lilac lily
yes
fresh robin
pretty sexy
lilac lily
3x DD, 2x TC, 1x NP
hollow stone
I think my highest champ is like 92 or 93 w ma build just tunnelling boss
fresh robin
we have 2 arms warriors so basically the only time i get to parse is when they die lul
they bring the deeps
spice surge
And idk, i've gotten a like rank 8 on champions
with MA and just going boss
There isnt even many adds to pad on this tier
fresh robin
lol what ilvls are ur weps aluren
im rocking a fat 405 and 400
white damage is insane this xpan
its like 30% of ur dmg
if u dont have good uptime ur parse is scuffed
lilac lily
410/385
hollow stone
Aluren op (in mtg)
lilac lily
Maaan, I love that card hahaha
real bay
champions parses 🐸
untold stream
I'm actually 3DD+MA, I feel like MA is useless since it crit only sometimes (or I have really bad luck)
lilac lily
If you're talking about traits to use in Champions fight, you want to use what? Opulence?
golden relic
but im sure subterfuge does well without SS anyway, it doesnt sim alot behind MA, ive had a few nights where i tilted and tomed into subterfuge
untold stream
And sub gives a great qol improvment
proven wasp
what's the difference between getting a 99 and 100 parse? just executing everything perfectly and maybe more procs from trinkets?
lilac lily
subt feels a lot smoother to play, imo
real bay
get lucky or better gear
lilac lily
Running MA and getting no crits feelsbadman
real bay
i mean there is a big difference if you have 405ilvl vs 415 with bis azerites
lilac lily
I got no luck getting 415 cowl from champions yet, lul
real bay
my best champions was like 97% but i managed to screw up second vendetta
boss died faster than i thought
literal punching bag
golden relic
I mean a 99 to a 100 can be alot
but sometimes it can be smth rly small
if were talking champions for example , its just pad
real bay
the boss doesnt even matter
proven wasp
hard to pad champions when my tanks keep the adds separated from the boss feelsbadman
fresh robin
my guild has us help kill cats cuz our ranged are too busy doing what sin rogues should be doing
hollow stone
Lol, 2nd vend on champs
fresh robin
what do u guys run on opp?
rigid mango
I just ran ma and regular dd's/Np's
fresh robin
yea same, do u fan when adds come out or just mash mutilate with dds
hollow stone
Just run w/e is best for the prog boss youre working on. Farm/reclear is whatever. Parsing only matters for epeen and if youre looking for a new guild
rigid mango
Honestly
hollow stone
1 fok for stats, then spam mut
rigid mango
Can't remember
fresh robin
for stats?
hollow stone
If youre ruby, just tunnel. Unless your group needs help w aoe