I mean, seli can talk to it better. But ive had a lot of success with it. But it's not a "top meters" build. Its to offset your other dps being lazy
#assassination
hollow stone
And just aoeing
Like, for bursting. With 3 heavy aoe, and not paying attention, youll get a ton of stacks and die. But with a ttk build, you can tunnel one down to get it going and fall off. Blah blah
scarlet wing
i watch seli a bit
scarlet wing
thanks mate
royal lantern
gz
delicate sapphire
I was thinking of taking Crimson Tempest into m+. Poison Bomb doesn't feel consistent enough
desert vault
Is ttk ok with two or does it really need 3 to make it's full impact?
desert vault
Yeah it's pretty popular in raids
strange python
plumage is amazing
raw fox
and i got happy cause i got the galecallers
hollow stone
I run 2ss 2ttk 2eb with ttk build and it seems to function perfectly for what im using it for
strange python
@hollow stone low keys?
hollow stone
Mostly just play chadlaw. But
cobalt gyro
plumage is pretty nice as an alternative to a gcb
hollow stone
13-15s so depends on your def of low keys :p
cobalt gyro
no positional requirement etc
strange python
oh yeah that's pretty high for me hehe
desert vault
@hollow stone Cool I think I can run that as well. I was as running 2x EB, ss, np earlier this week and that was kind of fun
raw fox
Was raiding outlaw too, but now im diversifying into sin fights
strange python
what're your thoughts on blightborne vs NP
sims are telling me BB but NP only sims like 3 dps lower heh
strange python
i mean, i guess it depends on how much blight procs
cobalt gyro
1 rppm or so
strange python
i see
cobalt gyro
ya, 1 rppm, just checked]
strange python
Hey is it alright to post pictures here of stats?
I need a quick check on something, but don't know if I should just equip it or not due to the item level, I prefer my stats but feel like the versality is a must.
good god lemme get my glasses
Sorry, you can just press the picture and get it from there
sim brother
desert vault
Blight sounds good for fok and ttk, it gives crit right? The ttk is all about crit
strange python
yup
desert vault
I think Seli said his crit was ... 1700 or something nuts
desert vault
And he was running spy glass and the merka crit trinket
I'm like a sad 1100 or 1200 I think. Dont go too crazy in m+ though
cobalt gyro
i have 1500 crit for m+, it's fine
desert vault
Yeah 1500 is plenty I'm sure
cobalt gyro
dice/spyglass
desert vault
Yeah I run those as well, I have 415 socket cannonball trinket though and run that on fort a lot of time cause it kind of hits pretty hard
strange python
yeah i think im gonna go with blightborne. that crit is absolutely insane from it
desert vault
It's fun on reaping packs when it procs back to back
strange python
[edit] if
😉
i had it proc 3x on a reaping pack, had a dh stun, then lock stun. was absolutely lovely
Yeah, trying to push all the garrote damage I can in my boss pulls.
I'm trying to get 25% haste though, lol
why so?
Because that's the soft cap of haste I believe for sin rogue and where I can push must of my damage, afterwards I can just focus on critical strike and whatever my third stat was which I forgot.
lone junco
derp
strange python
I do good during the first few minutes and then my damage falls off, I think that's just a me thing though.
So I try to work around that, it's a rotation thing probably
lone junco
haste translates to energy gain. so when you sim gear, haste continues to be very high. because energy lets you do more stuff.
except in cleave when you can bypass mut through fok crits.
strange python
prob best to macro galecallers w/ Tb no?
strange python
but. but. the pins
lone junco
and I wouldnt want GCB macrod anyway. timing the circle drop is important.
lone junco
at one point i had it tied to vendetta. but one /use isnt that hard to control.
a 2nd /use and my brain turns to jelly
wispy apex
Does it matter if i use the vigor trinket at the start of 6 stacks? or should i wait untill it ticks down?
wispy apex
Okay thanks
strange python
Thanks kanye, very cool
obsidian berry
i have looked everywhere for information on soft and hard caps for stats what site does everyone use
solid nova
None, because there are no soft/hard caps
Just what your simmed stat weights tell you
strange python
jesus with top gear sim currently sitting at 1400 haste, 700 crit, 650 mast unbuffed
seems odd
strange python
oh, yeah i suppose. 550 vers
scarlet sequoia
Yeah okay was gonna say that seems like you’re lacking some stats
strange python
i mean, i'm only 397 atm
scarlet sequoia
Ah okay
strange python
so weapon dps is 10.67? what exactly is that
i just made this rogue a few days ago
scarlet sequoia
Just means you want a big weapon in main hand
strange python
https://i.imgur.com/WqrJn1e.png ; current weights. sitting around 20.4k
scarlet sequoia
Don’t bother looking at that, basically just have a high ilvl weapon in main hand
strange python
oh okay, yeah i'm doing it right then i guess
scarlet sequoia
Yeah those stat weights seem fine
scarlet sequoia
Unlucky
strange python
🤷 it happens
finite yarrow
which site is more accurate, Hero Damage or Bloodmallet?
lost horizon
We generally recommend hero damage for rogue
I'm sure both are fine though
Always sim yourself for potential upgrades though
finite yarrow
for sure, thanks
spice surge
In early october yes
lofty juniper
lol dam
solid nova
SS was fixed October 3rd 2018 lol
rigid mango
Just got http://prntscr.com/mrlne3 on our mythic opu 
drifting cloud
opal id assume?
stray pumice
So rn i got 1 shrouded suffocation, do i still need to use it with exsanguinate even tho is only 1 trait?
stray pumice
Yeah i got subterfuge, just wondering if exsanguinate was really necesary for only 1 trait
quiet crescent
!dd
static hedge
during boss rotation, if i 4-5point envenom twice in a row, should i do it during Elaborate planning buff? or wait until end of envenom buff to refresh
quiet crescent
How many mobs before you spam fok with 3dd
cobalt gyro
just tried 3x ttk in a dungeon; https://i.imgur.com/Soco3DG.png does this damage spread seem about right
10 wc
storm pumice
EB trait = FoK on +2 targets
DD trait = Fok on +4 targets
quiet crescent
Love you
storm pumice
None of the traits mentioned means you FoK on 3+ targets
quiet crescent
In just wondering for rasta. I'm running triple dd one ss.
storm pumice
Don't FoK to build CP in that case, but do the occasional FoK to spread poison so you can maintain higher energy gain
limpid dagger
Why is Exsanguinate tied to SS trait? Is there some interaction I'm missing, you aren't gaining any additional dmg from the SS traits by using exsanguinate are you?
charred wedge
On H Mekka, would going into elusiveness help with damage if u have charge?
peak saffron
SS = strong garrote bleed, exsanguinate makes bleed tick for stronger
so it's more "bursty"
peak saffron
but SS doesn't necessarily make exsanguinate better for you. just gotta sim it vs toxic blade
well a stronger bleed ticking more quickly
is gonna be more burst damage
limpid dagger
yea, but you arent gaining any additional uptime o nthe stronger bleed. Just lowering the time till you apply the normal non stealth garrote.
If vendetta didnt last so long maybe. but I dont get it. =/
rigid mango
@charred wedge yeah it should, but I'd still take CD over it any day since it's down to RNG if you even get the bomb on you
charred wedge
yeah...rng is liking me so far lol
rigid mango
Aye, CD is still a consistant thing that will always be there. I wouldn't take elusiveness unless you have some type of guaranteed value for it
crisp dove
Just switched from Outlaw to Sin, currently 404 ilvl. I seem to have an aoe problem. My aoe numbers are pretty shit, especially compared to outlaw. What is the actual rotation/priority? Is it just getting ruptures on targets and spamming fan of lives? (Assuming 3+ mobs)? Should I pick a target after getting bleeds on everything and just focus a normal rotation? Help!
rigid mango
5 ruptures means you get perma energy for FoK spam
Traits for AoE are a big deal, EB (echoing blades) performes an insane amount higher on bigger packs, and it's the by far BiS for any m+ with reaping and or in general
young meteor
@shankor if u had 3 EB with 2 to 3 SS, your aoe numbers would be very good.
rigid mango
As for aoe rotation, it should be in the pins
Generally, you set up bleeds early, and then you spam fok and use envenoms/re apply ruptures with your CP's
solid sundial
what's the spell ID on deadly poison dot ?
rigid mango
If you're running SS (Shrouded suffocation) you'll most likely accompany it with subterfuge, which means your standard aoe trash pack opener is normally: G (garrote) -> G new target -> G new target and then set up ruptures
crisp dove
Those are my current traits, should I rework them?
crisp dove
Yeah
crisp dove
That’s the highest sim for top gear on a single target fight (patchwerk)
rigid mango
yeah, but stick your top gear in there
and screenshot/send the top az pieces
It includes your bags
crisp dove
When should I be envenoming during the aoe?
rigid mango
Whenever you've already set up enough ruptures
Every bleed tick on a target with a poison on = 7 energy
rupture on 5 targets = enough energy to spam FoK
You then spam FoK until 4+ CP and then dump rest CP on either envenoms or ruptures if they're falling off
crisp dove
So basically spam fok, get 5cp, envenom a target, rinse repeat and keep ruptures up?
crisp dove
Makes sense. I’m just really noticing it these days especially reaping. Come from outlaw it’s a rude awakening .
Coming from *
rigid mango
Well
For those type of packs
Sin can't keep up with outlaw unless you're stacking echoing blades
Echoing blades + crit = huge damage on big pulls such as reaping
crisp dove
I figured as much. Single target is much stronger though, much less rng
rigid mango
Not that it's not good damage on regular packs
Yeah, there's no rng apart from your standard crit built into sin
I prefer it for that exact reason
crisp dove
Do I really need 2 SS? Or is it worth moving one into echoing blades?
rigid mango
You don't need anything
If you send me your top azerite pieces I can tell you what's best 😃
crisp dove
Yeah but the damage increase from SS is strong isn’t it?
rigid mango
Once again, it depends
SS is at this point, an acquired taste
Either you like the playstyle or you don't, for ST
For m+, I'd rank it 2nd, but still MILES from EB
And if you get the choice of the two, EB takes the pole position by a mile.
crisp dove
1st being EB?
rigid mango
Very much so
crisp dove
Hmm. What about in a raid environment?
rigid mango
DD/NP rule
crisp dove
I guess on trash yes, but for single target?
rigid mango
Double Dose, Nothing Personal
They're the two best traits for single target, flat out
If you have no SS in your set up, you change from subterfuge to master assassin
crisp dove
Interesting... so if I sub SS for those, how does it change my play style?
rigid mango
People who prefer sub playstyle normally have an SS in their set
What I just said^^
SS = you play with subterfuge
No SS = you play with MA
crisp dove
Interesting
rigid mango
Different openers, different usages of vanish
rigid mango
Sims say NP/DD are the best
rigid mango
Aye, stick that into the top gear thingy
and then it'll spit out all your azerite pieces, screenshot that and I'll give it a look
crisp dove
Roger that. Give me a minute. 👍
safe flame
rigid mango
Those the only pieces you have?
safe flame
Yeah, scrapped the rest :/
rigid mango
So for M+ you've got the BiS helm
EB + SS is the god combo, imo
I'd run EB + SS, EB + TTK and SS + SoB
For m+ that is^
For raiding
Or general ST, I'd run NP + SS, SS + TTK, DD + SoB
safe flame
And stay withSubterfuge right
rigid mango
Yeah
I used to be a huge fan of SS + sub for anything, but now I've grown to love running MA instead for ST/Raiding
Still love SS for m+ as it's absolutely amazing there
safe flame
Will that rape my DPS on single target?
rigid mango
Sub shines at several targets, 3 to be exact
Swapping it out for an EB does lower your ST damage a bit
But it's VERY and I reiterate, VERY worth it for m+
safe flame
I'll definitely try it out. I wonder just how much of a DPS loss it is on ST.
rigid mango
Not enough to outvalue the immense damage that EB brings to the table for any aoe
safe flame
Is getting rid of DD a mistake?
rigid mango
Not for AoE
EB, SS and TC are all the top tier of aoe
BI is supposedly good, but I've never used it. SoB is also very decent
safe flame
Definitely going to have to do some testing with EB the next few days. I'm sure it will make a huge difference. Thanks for the advice!
rigid mango
It's the make or break for sin in m+
steel orbit
rigid mango
NP now stacks pretty equal to DD, if you check bloodmallet.
proven wasp
So I simmed it and the dps is super close, but would it be better to use a 420 Azerokk' Resonating Heart & 400 Galecaller's or just stick with 400 Dead-Eye Spyglass & 400 Galecaller's? I feel it just comes down to the proc chance, the sim is so close
sturdy python
Disregard, I thought it was azerokks vs gale
lethal mauve
Hi guys, assa whith 2-3eb,2-3ss,3ttk better that pirate in m+?
true gyro
Afaik need high crit on top of that as well
primal gazelle
new patch notes for 815 out
demo locks got their bis trait nerfed
and we dodged the bat
😄
patent elk
Source?
thorn tartan
royal lantern
Weeell
Ofc they nerf the lock trait
It was,like what? 37%haste with a 100%uptime?
That trait is broken as hell
visual quartz
wow, bonded souls nerf. I use it cause I like helping in raids but it wasnt even strong whatsoever....weird
drifting cloud
think its for pvp?
nimble tartan
how important is ilvl over proper azerite trait setup in pvp
i have 3 415s but i could swap to some 400s with better traits 😃
thick galleon
I started doing m+, where can i find where to use shroud in dungeons
quick echo
Its going to vary on your groups.
If you have a set group though then my suggestion is watching top streamers.
Also the routes on I beleieve RaiderIO shows you with the "expert" map.
buoyant coyote
@thick galleon just play and u see where they want shroud or ask before i start
bleak spoke
I mean did y’all miss the change to berserking tho
It’s a vendetta lol
We can have an extra 30% dam in a Tb window
Wtf
worldly iron
the what now
worldly iron
o
cobalt gyro
whats that spell from tho
golden relic
What are u on about
cobalt gyro
there is a berserking here but it doesn't say new changes just new spell
cobalt gyro
it'd make troll bis for every spec in the game if it was
golden relic
Its not even the same icon
worldly iron
it's like a minute duration as well, no? sounds like it'd be fair 
strange python
Is not that from the drums in the Open world for Leatherworkers?
bleak spoke
Actually it’s not cuz I can still be a beautiful blood elf owo
polar tapir
think zandalari troll will be better with regeneration tho, at least for raids
cobalt gyro
ya that racial is kinda bs
polar tapir
how often does mekka bomb debuff tick?
can imagine it's like every 3 sec or so, meaning u can get 2-3 ticks of the racial in
inland path
what ever happened to that string thing for m+ simming
prisma monolithBOT
Use the fight style Dungeon Slice (Beta) for a M+ simulation on Raidbots.
cloud iris
With 2SS and 3TTK do u still play exang or u go for TB? (for m+)
slim socket
TB
polar tapir
feels like overkill to run 3eb IMO
amber quail
TTK?
verbal mantle
Twist the Knife
amber quail
Oh ty
covert crag
bronze kelp
TB
with those traits you aim for high crit rating and as your envenom deals more dmg, TB gains more value
but to be sure, do what everyone does: sim it 😉
verbal mantle
Depends on the affixes
with Bursting you don't want to spam FoK, esp when you have one elite mob and 4 non-elite mobs in a pack
one TTK adds some ST to your gameplay, very good for Tyrannical weeks
but in the end just sim yourself
even if the dungeon sim isnt very accurate, it can give you an idea
cloud iris
I dont trust dungeon slice tho guess ill stay with triple ss and exsang
verbal mantle
as you wish
bronze kelp
dungeonslice is a bit tricky
cause it values single target a lot, due to the boss fight in it
so it will always favor haste a lot more
bronze kelp
but the 2ss 2ttk 2eb build is a pretty good alrounder
it fits perfect for me for bursting. especially if you got 1 high HP and 4 low hp mobs 😃
so you sure can FoK them down and as the big one dies, the old stack run already out so everythings fine
but that combination is more into direction prio target/boss dmg instead of high aoe dmg
so it also depends highly what the rest of your setup is made of
buoyant coyote
Run outlaw or EB setup on Sin for opu M ?
bronze kelp
thats a question for other people, as i only play m+ 😉
buoyant coyote
My ST is awfull on outlaw :/
polar tapir
EB isn't very good on Opulence. Majority of the fight is spent on pure single target
buoyant coyote
Can i stay dd ans Ss on opu ?
polar tapir
And if you get more than three add waves you're basically getting overwhelmed anyway
buoyant coyote
Or roll outlaw
polar tapir
I play MA with 3xdd, 2xNP, 1xTC on opu
buoyant coyote
I prefer Subf
polar tapir
would've had great logs if pally didnt have wrong talents
buoyant coyote
I dont like the MA
polar tapir
he spellwarded me, because he had it talented (it replaces BoP), so died to coin shower FML
buoyant coyote
So... play sin as normal ?
polar tapir
yeah I would
polar tapir
Aoe will be fine once you get proper management of gems
buoyant coyote
We have a dps race xD
Would you run HB
I accidently used it on hc and parsed 97%
XD
polar tapir
it's 100% execution fight, not a dps fight, and no i wouldnt
it's all about the boss dmg. add dmg is purely padding on that fight
buoyant coyote
Ima lose to the warlock 
polar tapir
besides, if boss has high stacks, you'll do so much more dmg just FoK'ing to 4-5CP, then finisher on boss
solid nova
Its 1 ability 😂
buoyant coyote
But it hits like a truck xD
solid nova
And no you dont need AoE traits on Opu
solid nova
Just look at the logs
cobalt gyro
Yes by popping blade flurry they get a lot of damage
lament dove
but that's not what kills the boss
solid nova
As you said, you've looked at the logs 😄
polar tapir
obviously it's cool to get good parses, but parses can just sometimes be a combination of luck (ie. not getting targeted by mechanics) and not actually playing the fight properly (padding instead of prio target dmg), which doesn't actually help kill the boss. The latter is, to me, absolutely wrong and selfish behaviour, and not something I would ever want from my raid team
lament dove
if you want more dmg on Opulance, imho go outlaw and pray for good rolls
it can be on par with assa on ST
it's not like you can only play outlaw for aoe
cobalt gyro
I mean if you get lots of 5 rolls it'll out dps anyone
dark crag
And if you roll only true bearing you are dead last reaching opu
winter gale
I asked this last night but would like to check once more. Does it matter wich enchant I put on main and wich on off hand weapon?
solid nova
No
winter gale
Ty 😃
amber talon
I’m currently running 3xSS, 2xEB, 1xNP for m+ content. Do you use fok to build combo points from 2+ targets or only 3+?
onyx rock
With EB you FoK at two Targets
amber talon
Great thanks !
devout jolt
simming for m+, whats the closest to the real thing? 5/6 bosses and 40 seconds/1 minute?
as a base sim
strange python
What’s EB again?I
polar tapir
echoing blades trait
real bay
there is the dungeon slice sim , but nothing is accurate tbh
Can't go wrong with 2 ttk 2 EB 2 SS
warm sable
I wasnt lucky to get that head from Opulence ...so i am doing 2xSS 2x EB 1xTTK 1xTC
But what i want to know beside crit is 2nd stats mastery still better than haste... is there minimum haste requred still like 10-15% ???
For m+ ofc
rose perch
i usually play a little more haste on tyrannical weeks than fortified weeks - like i value it about equally with mastery (unless i have a ton of haste then i avoid it) on tyrannical, whereas i value mastery > haste on fortified
solid nova
I assume Heroic
And not particularly, if you had a log we would see a bit more clearly
arctic harness
Just got around to opening my chest, feelsgoodman
modern forge
Hi Guys, is the trinket Invocation of Yu'Lon any good?
worldly iron
no 
strange python
No it was normal
worldly iron
the one trinket I get is a 415 yu'lon on mythic
modern forge
same as me :S
subtle tundra
Farming kings rest be like
worldly iron
I got a 95 parse on m grong yesterday dropped down to 94 today 
all because I used vendetta on the wrong add once like a dumdum
I was relieved of orb duty and could focus on blasting
strange python
Grong is ez plz when your orb carrier isn’t being a big dumb dumb
worldly iron
we 4 healed yesterday which is pretty intense for mythic
but it worked out in the end
shamans
strange python
I’m only item level 391 and my dps should be at 18K. I think I should learn the rotation of the full garrote build I had
So I can maximize my dps.
warm sable
Ty rng after 100x times ...
strange python
Prt+screen.jpg
plain thistle
windows+shift+s, ctrl+v on discord, easy easy 😃
worldly iron
gyazo 
worldly iron
or gyazo to just capture whatever tiny part of your screen you want 
rose loom
any videos of the EB build in dungeons? Can only find older Assa videos on youtube
young meteor
@rose loom id love to see a clip of someone with 3 EB and a few SS.
high siren
@plain thistle thanks for that tip, seriously
plain thistle
no problem 
brisk forge
Agree thanks for copy hax 😎
ripe nimbus
What does screenshots and copying have to do with sin rogues ur all banned 
polar tapir
what does banning people have to do with sin rogues? ur banned 
ripe nimbus
alpine grotto
anybody know how well the new races will do for sin rogues?
hollow stone
Zandalari master race. I dont even care if they arent "best"
alpine grotto
tbh i was thinking there going to be high up race wise
primal gazelle
Wasn’t there a zandalari buff that increased crit?
Did they remove it? I don’t see it on the list anymore
lament dove
I saw it, it's a proc
carmine silo
Its a chance to proc 5% crit
lament dove
Embrace of Pa'ku - Your abilities have a chance to grant you 4% critical strike for 12 seconds.
copied from wowhead
ripe nimbus
Meh
spice surge
Which averages out to the same as 1% overall (Shocker)
ripe nimbus
spice surge
Prob really good for sub, meh for assa
night vale
Really good is a stretch it’s better than nothing :p
ripe nimbus
Its a racial they havent been really good in like forever
spice surge
In terms of racials yes
ripe nimbus
I think zandalari trolls wear shoes? Correct me if im wrong but thats their best racial
primal gazelle
If it’s only 1% overall I’ll stick to BE 🤔
spice surge
Idk i think i have the bis race for that already
ripe nimbus
Worgen female?
sturdy python
You’re gonna make him post it 😩
spice surge
I slid into his DMs instead 😉
lament dove
where do you get they wear shoes?
spice surge
those look decent though, thats not what im after
real bay
soon I'll be a big thicc human
lament dove
and a zandalari troll in DA:)
outer ruin
I am probably using outdated info. But does feint reduce dmg on dots? namely bleeds on conclave, bursting, grevious? have I been feinting these things for months and wasting energy?
mint peak
If you're spec'd into Elusiveness but otherwise no
lone junco
thx buddy
I use snippy tool a lot. and I mean a lot a lot. but have always used the scissor icon and edit copy.
plain thistle
😄
vestal wren
you can use snipping tool for printscn button in win 10 (ease of use -> keyboard)
desert vault
Got to love ending up with a 99 parse and having no food buff and use 0 pots ... oops
ripe nimbus
Dont worry u probably would of still ended with a 99 parse if u ate food and potted anyway
lone junco
overrated. Still using those prolonged power pots
hollow stone
Ayyy
lone junco
cause our fucking other melee die on pull
hollow stone
I had like god knows how many at end of legion. Did you buy more or is my stash still goin?
lone junco
still going
hollow stone
Woo
strange python
Worth Swapping for Raid?
lone junco
I used some agi pots for progress on ghuun when it mattered
@strange python nothing there matters. means keep the Deadly quick for a better M+ set
hollow stone
Do you mean flopping from mh to oh? If thats what youre asking, no.
lone junco
the quick master. and deadly quick are too close to matter.
dark crag
If gold is no issue,
DEW IT!
lone junco
and 4 dps the mh/oh swap is way way way into the error
that blue text is there for a reason showing that it is an irrelevant difference.
if it makes you feel better, put quick in mainhand.
dark crag
The best dps start in your mind
strange python
Ye i know. ty tho
ripe nimbus
Imagine being 8/9M and still having 400 daggers someone kill me please
415 ilvl still 400 daggers....
hollow stone
Yea. Blue text indicates that its within the margin for error
dark crag
I have 400 offhand
hollow stone
Sry. Thats misleading. Blue text in blue background means that
ripe nimbus
I have 400 both hands and not even like socketed or anything
dark crag
Got weapons every first kill and then nothing
dark crag
Except rasta
hollow stone
Hah. Sucker. You got my terrible dagger luck from last tier. Thanks for the 415 mh week 2 this tier @ripe nimbus
lone junco
The goal here is to indicate sidegrades a bit better as well as reduce the feeling that Top Gear is telling you to constantly spend a ton of gold changing gems and enchants all the time when what you are wearing is already as good as it can statistically be.
dark crag
Real rogues gem/enchant crit
lone junco
If you choose a custom Iterations value other than Smart, the report will use the proper standard error value for that number of iterations which can vary. If the error of the report is 1%, sidegrades are any results that are up to 2% lower than the top result.
vestal wren
subtlety wants crit so i agree
dark crag
ripe nimbus
@hollow stone 
dark crag
I hate it when env or mut don't crit in ma window
ripe nimbus
Dont use MA then
hollow stone
So quiet..
scenic raptor
hello
hollow stone
What do you guys prefer, hook shot for OL or step for sin n sub?
lone junco
depends
scenic raptor
i like step
lone junco
I like hook for M+. and Islands. and LOVED double step for KJ
problem with hook, is that the time to move is close to a sprint.
so if you run out and hook back, sprint may have still been up.
hollow stone
Yea. I wish it was more instantaneous. But its real nice in open world too when you can get to spots you cant w step
I think overall i like step more tho
scenic raptor
yea i do like step more
cobalt gyro
I like hook because it has no requirement for a target like step does. Feels like I have more freedom of movement with it
lone junco
i usually overlap sprint and hook, so I dont use it wisely tbh.
rose perch
they're both really nice it's interesting to think about which i'd pick if i could only have one
i thiiink i'd go hook but idk for sure
mint peak
Hook is more versatile but the delay and occassional pathing issue can screw you up whereas SS is always pretty reliable. If I had to pick I think i'd go hook
rose perch
yeah i feel like step is like slightly more powerful but also more easy to get in trouble with and hook is a lot more convenient in a lot of cases
mint peak
Although without restless blades definitely SS
scenic raptor
ss is amazing
mint peak
It's good but a lower range and target requirement mean there are more scenarios where you could do exactly what SS accomplishes with a hook than vice versa.
strange python
Is 3X Nothing Personal with 2X Doubledose good? If I am going for more garrote damage should I just equip the silent suffocating azeritr pieces I have.
pine ore
Does crimson tempest adds energy per tick?
tame sun
no
mint peak
3xNP is surprisingly good even though intuitively you'd think having more than 1 isn't worthwhile but as usual sim all your trait combos to find out what's better. In multi target scenarios like M+ it's almost always going to be better to go SS than NP.
rancid bobcat
Np damage is pretty crazy
alpine grotto
wish they would make blindside more playable as well
royal lantern
blindside is ussules by desing
they would need too rework the entire talent too make it a choice
right now its worse then trash cus it doesnt work with so much stuff
fleet whale
blindside is just too weak
alpine grotto
use to like that talent when it was dispatch
fleet whale
would need to make it like hfc dispatch to make it worthwhile
mint peak
If the free Blindside proc was baseline you would probably use it but otherwise unless they make an OP azerite trait for it then nah
dark crag
Gloomblade from sub works with the bs traits, wierd that blindside doesn't
fleet whale
it was only added back for fanservice imo
rancid bobcat
Blindside isn't a full replacement for mutilate
Which is why gloom blade probably works for traits
royal lantern
they cant make traits for blindside only
that would be stupid as hell cus its a talent
lone junco
blindside should have been a mod to mutilate. so it worked with VR. it is a substantial fail currently
that would have made it crit heavy with the old garrote trait.
slow mortar
is DD in m+ a trap? like in 12-14 tyrannical keys
golden relic
dd in m+ is puke emoji
slow mortar
scribbles furiously -puke emoji yes yes yes-
spice surge
Thing is, DD is literally useless throughout anything that isnt a boss fight
And boss fights is not where you spend the majority of the time in the dungeon, even on tyrannical
slow mortar
i did a td 11 with 1DD/2SS/2NP/1TTK, DD was 3-4% on bosses
usualy run 3SS/2TTK/1NP
it was a test, i think
was thinking of going for 2-3TTK, 2NP, 1-2SS for tyrannical keys
spice surge
Even on tyrannical the vast majority of the time spent in the dungeon is on trash mobs
and EB is such a massive increase on trash
cosmic pier
for tyran i run 3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss, so that you still do decent trash damage
you can dump a lot of prio damage with 3 ttk while still doing good mass aoe
hollow stone
Make dd proc off poison procs from dispatch. Make dispatch baseline 2cp each cast w 3 on crits. Make dispatch great again.
Dispatch is blindside
slow mortar
would group comp change up traits or just a general trait layout for m+
hollow stone
Btw
Yea. Group comp, key level, dungeon, all factors in determining your best options
cosmic pier
if your group has a lot of front loaded aoe (dh, hunter, etc) eb loses value at lower keys (<15)
since it takes a bit for you to get dots out then start fokking
slow mortar
94% of the time im with a DH and either a frost mage or warrior
cosmic pier
depends on their builds though, my dh takes off fel barrage for most tyran dungeons, since the aoe is just "padding"
outlaw is better for instantaneous aoe, since it only takes a couple of gcds to get going
just gotta feel it out and decide how effective each spec is for your group
slow mortar
i dont like outlaw much
cosmic pier
same but lucky at high key levels the trash lies for a while even on tyran
i run with dh spriest though, so me and the preist get to ramp up
and blood dk so the only heavy burst aoe is the dh
which we communicate when he is going to use, the make the most efficient use of our cooldowns
ie. saurids in atal, on fort weeks, the dh calls if he's gonna fel barrage so we dont waste anything trying to kill them
slow mortar
no SoB's?
cosmic pier
another factor with eb is if you have to chain pull, having eb is really good since you don't get punished too hard by not resetting
i run 1 sob on fort weeks
only because i dont have ss eb head yet
fort week i usually run 3 eb 2 ss 1 sob
hollow stone
Yea. Sob is more of a consolation prize than something you seek out
Still very good for m+
cosmic pier
its decent, but there are better options
hollow stone
Yea
slow mortar
my raid traits are 1TC/1SS/2DD/2NP
just looking over other gear and seeing what i can make of it
cosmic pier
also cant afford to reroll raid pieces to pickup a TC, fucking reforge bullshit
hushed maple
bonus roll saved it
slow mortar
i've been doing teh whole reforge things across 4 toons and was thinking... 2-3k a day times 4 toons is gonna nip my stash
cosmic pier
nothing feels better than chain pulling a pack into repaing with full dots running with 3 eb, holy fuck so nutty
yeah i gave up on reforging
cost is too cooked
just gotta cop that one of my gear sets is slightly sub optimal
which fucking pains me but i'm so fucking poor this expac
slow mortar
get the goblin out
cosmic pier
nah i just cough up for a token every few weeks to buy pots
dont have the time to farm
slow mortar
alot of my gold making will be drastically cut down when i finish all my reserves. but little flip here there, unusual sell there makes a good chunk
tho the weekly contributions going from well weekly to daily was a bad move on Blizz
cosmic pier
everything is just so expensive, 400+ gold a pot is obscene, repair bills, its just so fucked
hollow stone
Just spend all your gold when consumables are cheap and resell higher when next raid launches (apr 16 tentatively)
Become rich again
hushed maple
Hey guys. Whats the Opener for Galecallers?
hollow stone
Gratz on your gcb. But theres no difference in the opener
hollow stone
Same as every on use. With vend. And then just use it on cd so it lines up with vend.
Obv you need to ensure youll be in it for the full duration too
If youre using exsang, you want gcb up before you exsang if they line up
But dont hold to line them up. Dps loss
cunning lagoon
at how many targets minimum do i use ct?
hushed maple
I use it at 4
just as I start using fok
well and on reaping you simply dot a few guys and do fok Ct allday
till everythings dead
^^
cunning lagoon
alright, thanks 😄
hollow stone
I havent used ct once this entire season
I feel like its pretty useless with eb available. But thats probably just feelycraft
desert jungle
I have always simed higher with poison bomb
hushed maple
O.o
well pb is obviously th ebest
so its no surprise
@hollow stone I do 80k on reaping packs with it
desert jungle
Ya I check when I change traits, new gear and so on just to be sure but pb is coming up on top constantly and I am constantly surprised lol
hushed maple
well there is no ST option besides pb
hollow stone
@hushed maple i do over 200k with outlaw
hushed maple
well Outlaw is for plebs
hollow stone
And when ive played sin this season, ive had 2ttk so im running pb as im envenoming more than i isually would
hollow stone
You do with ttk and prio targets
primal gazelle
🍿
hollow stone
If youre playing sin for reaping specifically youre doing it wrong
hushed maple
fok -> ct > fok > ct and so on ^^
spice surge
fok does more damage than ct
hushed maple
no. I have 2x pieces with ST traits. and 1x with fok and SS
otherwise its 2x treat cov and 2x DD
ah nno pardon 2x dd 1x cov and 1x np
primal gazelle
golden relic
🍿
hushed maple
in fortified I go for 3x AoE traits
primal gazelle
im pugging siege and these guys wants me to join discord for a +11
wary ice
😬
primal gazelle
jokes on u cos i am outlaw
lone junco
give up on the fok meme dream?
golden relic
SND memer now?
primal gazelle
only cos siege is too aids for sin
golden relic
primal gazelle
and i need a better eyeglass
primal gazelle
spotter = rip your restealth, and theres alot of mobs in there with low hp and just dies
hushed maple
Outlaw is actually better in most dungeons if not everyone
^^
the only downside to Outlaw is, that it has ups and downs
which is why I dont use it on Tyrannical
hollow stone
Yea. If spottering sin is trash. But i still like it for siege because my group are all apes and dont know how to hold dps on the little guys
primal gazelle
im practicing my pirate rotation anyways
hollow stone
Yarr
hushed maple
there is something to practice?
primal gazelle
not a very good outlaw rogue tbh 😦
golden relic
I mean, u might have to practice aswell if you are fok>CT spamming
primal gazelle
LMAO
hushed maple
well my CT does 700k in reaping packs
primal gazelle
i was like 🤦 reading that
golden relic
hollow stone
Damn. 1.1m dps on reaping
hushed maple
since its tyrannical
hollow stone
And thats just 2 abilities
hollow stone
Seli is a cat too
hushed maple
I mean. sure its not good compared to Outlaw but I am a very very very unlucky person
I roll trash allday in Outlaw
so I play sin
before I go for damn 12k dps on bosses
spice surge
Well if you're using CT and no EB then yeah, outlaw is gonna do far more damage than your assa
primal gazelle
lol
hollow stone
Diggin that hole
hushed maple
well okay not "never" but "never really" I used more than one eb but my CT came better in dmg than my fok
(low crit)
and kind of high mastery
rough thunder
Is mastery useful for mm+ ?
hushed maple
well atleast more than in ST ^^
plain thistle
mastery is useful for everything 🤔
rough thunder
Yea ofc
cobalt gyro
Not to the extent thats crit is. But it's good yes
rough thunder
I use suffocate and echo
I guess it helps at some point
I’m trying to get better with my rogue :))))
heavy skiff
SoB or ttk for M+? i dont realy trust the m+ sim in raidbots...
spice surge
ttk
heavy skiff
k ty
wary ice
Scent of Blood vs Twist the Knife - if that still doesnt help, the Rupture and Envonom azerite traits respectively
hushed maple
damn envenom one is good for M+? O.o
wary ice
dont quote me; but i think the new mode of thought is that if you want o go for AoE you should be rolling Outlaw and as such Most M+ assassination build are accounting for stronger ST options to better kill bosses and problem mobs during tyr/fort respectively
in other words, assassination wont be able to keep up with outlaws AoE padding, so theres not a lot of sense gearing for it when u can just swap specs instead
wait dog no :^(
golden relic
:^)
hushed maple
when using EB
do you wait 2 sec before fok?
with the talent
?
or is it just to get the nice burst when having 20stacks?
primal gazelle
you dont wait
real bay
rancid bobcat
primal gazelle
this rogue in my pug 13 siege
imaging having the bis sin chest for m+ and putting ruinous bolt on it 🤦
hollow stone
Is that one really bis? I though conc w ss eb heed was bis... or is this one same same
Either way... good lord
primal gazelle
its the same
hollow stone
Yea i thought there was a ss eb heed from tr too
Got my conc chest first kill tho so wiped that from my brain
sudden orbit
maybe they forgot to switch it from raid and they're still raiding 3 ss? womp though
dapper forge
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
ruby oxide
Anyone here have experience raid leading from an assassination stand point?
civic palm
o _O
ruby oxide
I'm finding myself having a hard time keeping up this tier. I had a 98.8 parse average for heroic uldir and had a few top 100 parses and a top 10 parse on Mythic Mother, finished Uldir 5/8M. I'm 3/9M now and I feel like I'm watching so many timers and making so many callouts(herding cats) that I'm lucky to green parse. I realize that assassin, as far as DPS class/spec goes is close to ideal since it's more patience based and has relatively low APM, but i'm struggling. Anyone who can help, I'd love some input
rigid mango
You guys think it's worth this week to swap out an EB for ST traits for something like a high temple key?
Just because it's pretty much all down to third boss damage
ruby oxide
I'm looking more for input/advice relevant my particular situation. Mentality, approach, tips/tricks for managing callouts + bleed timers + resources etc. It's more of an outside the game question. If I'm not leading, I play just fine and my numbers are good. The fall off occurs during callout/lead situations, it's not specifically a look at the logs situation, but what have you, in my situation, done to succeed when you have to spread your brain power out more than just pressing your damage buttons.
Like, let's say I have 9 brain power. I need 5 to play assassin and I need 6 to lead. How can I make up for the 2 brain power that I'm missing. If I push 5 points towards my DPS, callouts etc are missed and the encounter falls into the dumpster. If I use all 6 points for leading, my DPS falls, I might drop a bleed, or I'm unable to make snap plays that will increase my dps (like rupture sniping a dying add, getting 3 Sub'd SS off in a chaotic cleave phase etc). Delegate, I guess? I'm just looking to see if anyone has experience in the same shoes. Most leads are tanks from experience, I haven't had someone to talk to about, but seeing as there are 23000 of us here, someone might see this and have a clue.
raven mica
Most raid leads aren’t tanks or melee, they’re ranged.
Almost all of the raid leads I knew played BM hunter.
strange python
maybe your UI's dog
ruby oxide
I have an easier time playing BM sometimes, but feels like dog shit
raven mica
It’s harder to RL as a melee, you can’t get the full scope of what’s going on.
ruby oxide
Yeah, can’t see behind me is a huge issue
Delegation, I guess is a bandaid I can slap on it
raven mica
Most people just accept that the RL’s DPS isn’t gonna be great on prog content
ruby oxide
And timer placement, can probably juggle the UI like funk said
rigid mango
I mean, raid leading takes brainpower, you can't just assume you'll min max on both raid leading and dpsing
ruby oxide
I get that, but it feels shitty to grey or green because I’m trying to keep people alive
raven mica
All of my raid leads notoriously underperformed relative to what they were able to output when not raid leading
rigid mango
Method's RL is normally quite low down, but hsi RL'ing is amazing
strange python
grace us with a picture of your UI
ruby oxide
I’m at work atm, so I can’t pull it up, but I can link something later when I get home. I’m in the process of redoing my WA
raven mica
That’s why they play bonobo specs like BM/havoc or support classes in other games
strange python
Maybe just make ur bleed timers big , closer to timers and glow shiny af when under pandemic
ruby oxide
A lot of my assassin play has been ingrained in me from wrath times. So I can’t really use prepackaged auras, they fuck with my head if they are in a different order than keyboard arrangement etc
Used to survive on Rogue Power Bars
I suspect you’re right about moving bleed timers and bigwigs timers to a spot where i can capture them both in a single scan will help
But, I still hit my pandemics fine and all that. I think where I struggle is min/maxing toxic blade and doing the nuanced stuff.
Doesn’t help that I’ll take on any shit assignments that don’t benefit my parse—-ape cores, Ruby bitch on Opulence etc
dark crag
Use on cd and have a good amount of energy
ruby oxide
Holy shit
strange python
also
the difference between a green parse
and purple parse
isn't min maxing
that's something going horribly wrong somewhere
ruby oxide
I don’t play my rogue for farm, so I can’t even give a heroic log under ideal focus on me conditions
dark crag
If we talk mythic here, many fights are not that melee friendly and most have mechanics that can fuck you over
ruby oxide
I can’t. We’re working on gearing up a resto sham for mythic prog, have to bring hunter
strange python
clearly one of the bis issues is lacking practice
so not practicing on the character you're progressing on
is kinda yikes
frail dome
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
You getting much better at your progression character is going to benefit the guild a billion times more than the chance of some rsham getting another piece of gear
ruby oxide
We have 1 other mail wearer and our group isn't large enough to run any kind of splits or anything like that. What kind of message does it send if I play my rogue to get some good parses if there are people who need mail and we have 7 other leather wearers?
dark crag
And then you get tf that you can't trade
strange python
like i said , you becoming a much more effective player all around , at a quicker pace is going to help more than random chance of random gear
ruby oxide
If I someone else was making all the callouts and all I had to do was damage and not stand in shit, I likely wouldn't be asking for help. One shotting heroic bosses isn't the answer to my problems. I get what you're saying about practice, but when the entire fight riddle is solved and the other 19 people in the raid don't need me for anything, the issues aren't present.
dark crag
The answer is simple: you can't
primal gazelle
i had a raid leader back in legion that had r1 almost every fight
truly a god at this game
dark crag
He had 11 iq points
civic palm
The only times I RL'd was as healer so... dunno.
dark crag
I never encountered melee rls
supple hearth
I've preferred tank/healer raid leads tbh. Too easy to lose DPS watching the raid tbh
lone junco
I was RL as rogue for a while. Hard to yell at ranged.
supple hearth
Imagine being raid led by Noobe...
Gets graphs thrown at me
civic palm
Tip to catch ranged, have camera perpendicular to target, watch BM hunter spam 44444444444444 into Buster Shot.
primal gazelle
im up against this outlaw role for a 20 WM, is he gonna destroy me? take your votes now
civic palm
Just sabotage him.
royal lantern
use tricks on him
and blame him then for ot holding his dmg back
420 spyglass
beat that guy pls
people with that much luck need too be punished
nimble tartan
Yulons smh
If he had proper azerite setup and not yulons I'd be spooked for u...
I played my mage the other day in a key...freezing rain is so hot...
hearty oriole
So during conclave raptors I feel useless. Are u guys running ol for that fight or whats kinda the best strat there?
civic palm
I beat people in raids with 410+ weapons and 410+ trinkets > _>" must feel bad for them.
primal gazelle
hes using 3 ds 1 barrage 1 tc 1 wits
nimble tartan
If the barrage procs on a juicy pac u could be fucked
But
It depends on his SKILL
primal gazelle
hes 2k io so doubt hes bad
civic palm
You'd be shocked, or not, O _O
I've been shocked.
2kIO players standing/running into trivial raid mechanics.
rustic ether
@hearty oriole i run with internal bleeding so that you can actually get a bit of dmg out of wasting a full cp finisher
also just watch the timers for raptors, reapply bleeds on prio and then run to your marked raptor
primal gazelle
rip we died on witch boss, down to a 19 wm lul
cobalt gyro
In my experience there's a decent bit of boosted players going on
ruby oxide
What do you guys use for lust timing on witches? We use first jagged nettles cast on 3rd witch
cobalt gyro
2k io's thrown keys for me before
ruby oxide
Can’t really boost to 2k without account share or buying a toon. You can’t carry someone through 10 high keys
cobalt gyro
Dunno how else you'd explain the people who don't understand half the pulls/mechanics otherwise
civic palm
But that's the point, they're extra bad.
They didn't even get boosted to 2k, someone else played through that.
ruby oxide
Yeah. Ebayers I guess. I don’t refute your point
hearty oriole
@rustic ether thank u
dark crag
Did he smashed you and never called back?
civic palm
RO _OD
dark crag
Not you, the guy who did the +20 against the outlaw
primal gazelle
mid dungeon hes at 41.2k and im at 38.9
civic palm
:3
cobalt gyro
i'd run sin more honestly but i'm losing so much ilevel on my good pieces
round harbor
What was dpsnom triad boss
Bets that he dusted u
That's the good tier fight
God
Max wits stacks throwing all DMG into the one boss with no ramp up on new target
YEET
cobalt gyro
if the tank stacks them well you can FoK for EB procs on your primary target at least 
primal gazelle
well we inted the 20 key on the witch
bc he did 14k dps and we died to the dps check LOL
missed it by literally 2 seconds
he did better on the 19 tho like 20k and i was 17k ish on the witch
said it was bad procs
cobalt gyro
how can you have bad procs when you hit flurry and get procs every gcd
sturdy python
RTB
Depending on whether he went into the boss fight with 2 BF charghes makes a difference too
And MC of course but I assume that wasnt an issue
toxic minnow
so what talents are you guys running this week for keys?
bomb + poison blade or exsang and ct?
languid ore
so i got a 405 azerok resonating heart but ive got a 380 galecallers, its actually like .4 dps less in sims
would you guys keep the on use galecallers or just the set it and forget it trinket
primal gazelle
oof i lost again in a 19 ML by 100 dps
pretty cool comparison, the dotted line is him
tawdry rapids
Can anyone recommend a good WA? I found all the ones on the Wago site, but sifting through them all to find what I'm looking for is killing me here.
I'm kinda looking for something that does more than just a countdown slider bar for my DoTs. Was hoping for something that is a more obvious warning when I need to re-cast Garrotte and Rupture again. My uptimes suck, and I need help improving them.
raven mica
Idk if he has a rogue one but luxthos traditionally makes weakauras that make it obvious when to hit a button
nimble tartan
Afenar has good weakauras for like every spec in the game
raven mica
Like his havoc and fury/arms ones
nimble tartan
Just sort by views or stars on wago and you'll find good ones
civic palm
_>"
cobalt gyro
@primal gazelle what you running in those keys for traits
primal gazelle
3 eb 2 ss 1 ttk
strange python
jesus EB is super strong
primal gazelle
i actually beat him for 3/4 reapings 😄
i died on the 2nd reaping
hence why his spike was higher than mine at 8 mins
primal gazelle
we were pulling double packs pretty much every pull
just fok spam and rupture for energy
civic palm
yeah spam fokaroos
sage prairie
What are the best traits in Battle of Dazar'Alor right now?
primal gazelle
my rotation was literally 2 buttons
strange python
lmao
primal gazelle
ez game
strange python
@sage prairie have u checked pins/guides?
sage prairie
i have looked at guides and such, im just wondering because im hearing a lot of conflicting things over whether double dose, shrouded, or nothing personal is better
as i stacked 3x shrouded 3x nothing personal but now im hearing double dose is nuts
strange python
DD is nice
civic palm
SS is poor for purely ST.
strange python
^
raven mica
primal gazelle
hey look how hard my rotation is
raven mica
And check bloodmallet/herodamage
strange python
LMFAOOO
civic palm
needs more spinning
sage prairie
but a lot of the fights in BoD arent very single target oriented
strange python
looks like a reaping pull to me
primal gazelle
why play outlaw when you can press 1 button and just do 100 overall less dps
ez life
civic palm
Rupture FROM TIME TO TIME.
strange python
whats outlaw, amirite
i cant get away from sin now that i finally got another dagger
primal gazelle
i dont even think its even worth to garrote reaping in ML