Yah
#assassination
elfin fossil
visual quartz
Is blightborne that strong, jesus, Im 402 only simming mid 21k
vestal wren
the pvp trinket is rly nice
low junco
dw man, I am 408 and i sim 23.5k :D
real bay
yes at least on sims . Blightborne gives like 15% crit on proc
vestal wren
👀 no subterfuge
spice surge
He has given in to the power of MA
real bay
wtb that chest and I'll sim 24.5k too 
golden relic
imagine raiding mythic and not getting any loot anyway 
spice surge
Like you all inevitably will
vestal wren
well i see a lot of ppl insisting on playing subterfuge and having at least 1 ss trait
real bay
no pieces yet to swap around
golden relic
pretty sure ppl insisting are doin that becuz of that stream where perfecto said u want 1 , clip has some views , or that , ye, cant swap pieces
real bay
need another champion helm
low junco
feels weird simming less than most of my guild
worldly iron
408 and not even breaking 23k yet been having terrible luck with traits and trinkets
might be able to switch around some gems though, I'll see what I can do this week
real bay
time to pray for weekly chest
spice surge
@low junco https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/51bSVFgSZMi9AuSw2yqZVW
Ez 500 simdps
quick ice
its pretty good
low junco
i will try it on todays raid
quick ice
just remember it works differently 😃
worldly iron
you can reach 23 844 with subterfuge there as well
quick ice
I was playing subt earlier and kept using vanish like I was playing MA by mistake
worldly iron
if you wanna do that
spice surge
Yeah, its mostly about SS being overrated
worldly iron
I just run it solely for the playstyle
low junco
i actually am clueless what to do without SS and Subterfuge :D
worldly iron
me like dot
golden relic
mm
real bay
Just opener is a bit different
real bay
lol
worldly iron
3cp on garrote just feels nice and smooth
low junco
^^
quick ice
env-mut-env feels pretty great when everything crits during MA though 😄
worldly iron
ain't disputing that
grizzled jay
Start not enjoying SS cause Blizz gonna take it out next expac
worldly iron
quick ice
this is probably true 😦
quick ice
whoa we get to keep deadly poison?
watch us, even though we only have 1 poison, still have to cast it every hour
worldly iron
deadly poison minor glyph effect
quick ice
"class fantasy"
real bay
offhand might get pruned away too so we poke around with one hand only
worldly iron
might as well take a sip while we're at it
low junco
ill actually go for no SS tonight
golden relic
can we have old poisen animations then
low junco
will try to top up the metres
real bay
are you saying you don't top 
grizzled jay
Dunno why they removed that
spice surge
If only they were to release a version of the game as it used to be, before many of these updates came to be
🤔
real bay
hmmm
worldly iron
bring back burst of speed
real bay
right one look like a crazy person
grizzled jay
Right one is your ex
real bay
We Disney now
grizzled jay
You could prolly make a meme template with that face
real bay
new ones lack the feel
full pagoda
@gusty kestrel @grizzled jay How do you know what Blizzard will take? Trolling 
?
real bay
watch out you may get pruned too
solid nova
full pagoda
I'm still feeling stupid 
solid nova
That button you just pressed on CD?
grizzled jay
Why not
solid nova
Not exactly a big loss
grizzled jay
😀
grizzled jay
The button felt good which imo is missing a lot in wow
brisk forge
Yay 25k+ sim, i am among the big di*cks now ✌
real bay
what feels good anymore
grizzled jay
Realistically they will put SS in the talent tree
Hopefully in place of smth useless
grizzled jay
Their "engagement" spreadsheets should show them how popular SS has been
sonic tiger
Guess i missed sth, but is NP now the best trait if stacked at least twice? or is sth wrong with the sims
seeing a lot of ppl stacking it 3x
going for pure ST
grizzled jay
Lot of lucky people xD
quick ice
its strong but not the strongest. you do want at least 1 for sure now though on ST
and stacking it is way better than we believed it to be
cobalt gyro
just missed a +18 wc by 20 seconds 
sonic tiger
yeah, got 1x , but i thought its not worth considering the energy reg being unique
grizzled jay
FeelsBadMan
quick ice
it turned out the ticking damage is boosted by haste, which wasn't accounted for in simc originally
and it actually is pretty big damage?
cobalt gyro
3 dd probably
devout jolt
I have NP stacked twice but sim tells me to only use one and Blightborn instead of the second NP
strange python
blightborn is bis
devout jolt
ahhh thats probably why then ha
sonic tiger
i guess i'm lucky cause i could forge to 2x NP and DD on the other Rings :x guess i gotta try
devout jolt
currently in DD x 3 NP x 2 TC x 1
quick ice
I think theoretically ideal is 3DD/2NP/1BB?
devout jolt
but will change 1 NP for a BB
sonic tiger
Thanks guys
sonic tiger
TC imho only if you heals dont suck and keep u up (personal opininon based on my mates)
devout jolt
yeah, I feel I need to replace mine, great on early bosses but becomes an issue later on
sonic tiger
always around 50/60 % at current progress - but we only do hc :/
devout jolt
simming 3 x DD 2 x NP 1 x BB now, fingers crossed
sonic tiger
so for me i'll try to switch it out - guess NP got it xD
undone talon
traits for assa m+?
solid nova
SS, EB
cobalt gyro
@primal gazelle https://i.imgur.com/pDqmEmN.png this look about right for not running HB? +18 waycrest
rose perch
ya S-tier: SS, EB
A-tier: SoB, TTK
devout jolt
sim telling me TC is better but it obviously hasnt met our healers...
solid nova
There's plenty of TC logs with 95%+
And sim assumes 100% so
Unless you change it to what you're actually running from your logs
rose perch
you can sim it with an uptime amount yeah
solid nova
Ya
You could take an average uptime from set of logs and adjust if you wanted to be specific
Or slap your healers a bit
vestal wren
or dont stand in shit 😉
rose perch
just spec leeching poison 
quick ice
bribe your healers to focus you
real bay
Just spam feint
vestal wren
iirc the best pieces for sin are without TC
quick ice
current default profile doesn't have any
3DD/NP/blightborne/TTK
EDIT: not DitB, actually TTK!
devout jolt
can you see i logs the up time of TC?
rose perch
ya overwhelming power being the tiebreaker there
real bay
It's s buff so ye
rose perch
@devout jolt ya go to "buffs"
have yourself selected
and find the buff and it should have an uptime percent
quick ice
fun fact: if you never drop low enough to lose it, it doesn't show up in buffs
rose perch
BONUS: check debuffs to see how often you had the drawback debuff active and factor that into your decision if it's nonzero
devout jolt
cheers guys, found it now, had to go to a boss where i dipped low in order to lose the buff then gain it again
quick ice
dead DPS do 0 DPS 😛
vast forum
Rogues don't die tho
true ingot
Hm. Do I swap my 370 galecallers for a 415 plumage. Sims say it's a 1.5% upgrade but I don't know how it'll feel to lose all that haste during bursts.
vast forum
Definitely swap
solid nova
^
edgy ginkgo
hey guys ... would you play 3 tiomes DD still with subterfuge?
devout jolt
do you have a SS wiht that 3 x DD?
solid nova
I'd play what my top gear sim suggests
vast forum
Blasphemy
devout jolt
lul
solid nova
Top gear op
vast forum
Feelycraft > top gear
solid nova
edgy ginkgo
no :/ but i'm thinking about playing 2 DD and 1 SS instead+
solid nova
Yeah 415 plumage is tasty
devout jolt
use only what Icy veins tells you!
vast forum
You have 6 trait slots
quick ice
when did we lose a feelycraft react, anyway?
solid nova
Yonks ago
vast forum
I take my info from noxxic tyvm
solid nova
@edgy ginkgo https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear
Whack a /simc copy/paste in there and let it run
Can post the results for any clarifications you might need
grizzled jay
Noxxic best site for mythic raiders💪 💪
solid nova
If theres some close calls
vast forum
Only cutting edge mythic raiders will understand
edgy ginkgo
yeah i do... but it is more thanm just dps, sometimes i want to play comfortable.. and 3 CP with SS are soooo comfortable if yopu know what i mean
devout jolt
WF LFR beg to differ
solid nova
Well SS is under valued on a ST sim
So that would be something you'd consider when reading the results
devout jolt
if its comfortable for you, play it man
vestal wren
wait why is ss undervalued
solid nova
Because its not accounting for any 2nd targets unless specified?
vestal wren
yes but its ST, so its not suposed to do that
solid nova
If SS is .1% less on ST, i'd take it because any 2nd targets the value will overtake that
Yes, which is why i said its something that needs to be considered
edgy ginkgo
3 times DD compared to 2x DD and 1X SS are 300 dps in sim, thats a lot ^^
for my sim*
solid nova
I wouldnt blindly follow any ST sim and apply it to a raid without considering any opportunities for 2nd targets
vestal wren
ss is convinient bc. it is strong in any given situation
but ss also requires subterfuge
vast forum
Downtime also favors ss
solid nova
Exactly
Should look at all sims with a bit of noggin knowledge of the raid
Same applies to dungeon slice
vast forum
I will always be a big proponent of ss
shy rover
Yo boys, i just simmed these trinkets patchwerk but they dont seem logical to me since it will sim the yu'lon and the boon as best for me.. but they share cd's.. any thoughts?
edgy ginkgo
i scrapped yulons ;D hate it 😄
shy rover
I hate yulon aswell thats why 😛
low junco
Yu'lon, :/
grizzled jay
Farm FH for dice
thorn tartan
Yulon 
low junco
yeah, you should farm a different trinket @shy rover
shy rover
@grizzled jay and what do you wanna combine it with? the boon i guess or plumage
solid nova
I mean what was the margin as well?
solid nova
Are we talking fat numbers or noodle number differences
edgy ginkgo
on this ilvl boon+dice
shy rover
ill sim again to check marges sec
golden relic
when u do a 10 key quick get 420 boots
devout jolt
got dice this week, such a happy bear
grizzled jay
Gz
bronze kelp
nerf sockets
true gyro
Does yulon perform shittier than it sims? Cause it sims highest for me with a small difference to claw
For st
gusty coral
Got the siege spyglass, but not sold on it yet
hushed maple
Hey since my Raidbots doesnt have enough points, to sim, should I sim my azerite first or my normal gear?
grizzled jay
Spyglass is giga for m+
shy rover
@solid nova Yee diff with boon + yulon, Boon, leaf is 0.1% and since i hate yulon i take that leaf anyday 😛
solid nova
Yeah sounds a good call till you get that dice on the go
gusty coral
Ye but only have 1 eb so far
true gyro
Why you hate yulon?
shy rover
Yup thanks ^^
low junco
have you used it? @true gyro
hushed maple
we h8 cuz bad
true gyro
Ye got 415 :p
low junco
its not good at all
i tried it like
2 pulls
managed to do like 200k dps max
200-300k
thorn tartan
edgy ginkgo
i thought about using it for reaping in m+... but its so bad cuz you dont want to use it on other packs because of the cd xD
true gyro
Ye I pretty much only have options of using yulon + vigor or kimble + vigor
low junco
kimbul?
true gyro
The yulon combo sims bit higher
hushed maple
So do I sim azerite before normal gear or the other way around? My Simpoints are only 1.5Million and thats reached too quick.
solid nova
Have you selected everything?
Because rings/trinkets add a lot
So if you've got some shitty ones you dont want to add it'll reduce it a lot
grizzled jay
Get a baseline of good gear then sim for gems
quick ice
solve gear & azerite before sockets/enchants
solid nova
If you untick gems/enchants does it make it?
Do the gear first and enchants/gems after
solid nova
Spooce2fast4me
edgy ginkgo
any ideas why my NP traits are simming worse than other? bloodmallet says that 3x NP is OPAF but my sims are saying i only should use 1x NP^^
true gyro
Guess ill roll with kimbul+vigor then
grizzled jay
Because your gear is different than the blood mallet template
quick ice
and technically what bloodmallet says is that 3x NP beats 3x of anything else
not that 1x NP 2x something else is worse
solid nova
Yeah you should look at the value of the 1st trait
1st one is giga good
2nd and 3rd are good
edgy ginkgo
makes sense
solid nova
So using bloodmallet quick, the first DD trait is worth more than a second NP
831 against 816 etc
edgy ginkgo
yeah.. i', in the nice situation that i could use 2xDD, 1xSS and 3x NP 😄
solid nova
So 1 NP and 1 DD is worth more than 2 NP etc
edgy ginkgo
but treacherous is better than NP for example
solid nova
But when in doubt sims is your friend
spice surge
Yes, agility is better the worse gear you have
edgy ginkgo
i'm on 407, still better
spice surge
so the default profile which is around 416 doesnt want agility as much as somebody with 405 would
edgy ginkgo
yep
real bay
what I like about NP is just fire and forget as long as you don't miss a vendetta cast , rest can be RNGd a little bit like BB proc during bad time, but that doesn't happen too often i guess
spice surge
Or rather, the value of agility is pretty static. Wheras the value of other things go up the better gear you have
solid nova
Yeah exactly
hushed maple
when is sin actually worth taking in m+?
real bay
when the player is competent it does fine anywhere
hushed maple
well but when would you pick sin over outlaw?
bronze kelp
when you are better with sin, than with outlaw 😉
hushed maple
that is nearly impossible
real bay
or you just don't care to swap
lament dove
when you know you are an unlucky person
polar tapir
when u have no good outlaw weapon 😃
bronze kelp
thats not possible? For my part sin is way easier than outlaw
bronze kelp
why?
real bay
sin requires more management by far
spice surge
Outlaw does its ST rotation but with bf on
hushed maple
and keep on ST xD
real bay
this why you see so many outlaws it's brainless easy
hushed maple
there is just no way to do worse AoE as Outlaw
bronze kelp
sin in m+ -> bleeds everywhere -> aoe -> finisher ->aoe -> do yome interrupt stuff or something -> profit
spice surge
Sin requires proper rupture usage to not be energy starved, which is dependant on what pack you're facing, how long they'll live and a bunch of other things
hushed maple
Outlaw does EASILY 50k DPS in 5packs
spice surge
Which is 4
bronze kelp
but how is that difficult ?
real bay
I prefer to play something that requires thought and not just button spam yolo
hushed maple
well button spam yolo is probably 2 times better ;D
bronze kelp
i think its more difficult to react to rtb rolls and proccs on a gcd locked spec
spice surge
Assa is gcd locked as well?
real bay
no it's not
hushed maple
just get a rtb wa
spice surge
???
bronze kelp
but your rota changes depending on the rolls
hushed maple
no
quartz rune
Not really
bronze kelp
yep, but you favor bte over a reroll and if you got a pistolshot proc its prior to bte. oh you got a 4 cp proc from an other trait, finisher again and all that stuff
hushed maple
well if you crit 2times with mut. you also have to "rethink"
bronze kelp
and with AR running + brigands trait you are smashing and hammering your keys + have to react within 0.75 to 1 sec to procs
quartz rune
How does this affect ur Rotation based on rtb though?
quartz rune
Its traits not rtb
bronze kelp
its not affecting the rota. youre right
worldly iron
when I play outlaw in m+ I just spaghetti everywhere, I don't even enjoy how it feels. sticking to assassination where I can do proper blasting
quartz rune
I mean Ace procs affect ur rota yea
For 1 global but i mean every specc has something similar
Assa muti crits e.g
golden relic
Its called outlul come on
lament dove
I found outlaw a breeze to play in m+ compared to assa
but I just don't like it, I got horrible luck with RtB and the "stacks" of aoe mechanic is cringe-worthy for me
bronze kelp
yeah, but on assa i dont mutilate often on trash packs
solid nova
Back to the original point, they are both more than fine, Theres regulars here pushing keys as sin, Outlaw just shines on reaping with wits/bf and some people find one spec more comfortable than the other.
Rio has good examples
Dayvanie is pushing as sin and is blasting atm
And if you're only doing your weekly clear, it really doesnt matter too much you can play preference
lament dove
I tried hidden blades yesterday with more crit gear and did like 4K more overall dps than usual
it also does more dmg on ST than PB
wtb headpiece with EB
lament dove
yes
bronze kelp
same group of people? same pulls as usual ?
lament dove
well I don't run the same dungeon with same people every time:P
but never did 27K+, used to end up at 23-24K
bronze kelp
which dungeon ? just to have a reference for myself
bronze kelp
hm... okay, ill test that ^^
on a good group i was at 31k with exsang/ct on a 11or 12
lament dove
I only do 10-12s and usually only with guild as far as "same dungeon with same people" go
real bay
never got over 30k overall mobs die too fast
haven't done 15+ or something
no time to blast
bronze kelp
depends on your group
if the other dds to not enough dps on can do more
cause mobs live longer 😉
real bay
yep
bronze kelp
but if you got burst aoe classes with you, you maybe better stick with outlaw cause there you got immediately good aoe dmg
strange python
Or.... if you play with burst AoE classes you let them do top overall and burst and do you priodamage and ST. Like it should be
bronze kelp
also a point 😉
royal lantern
yeha but, i want too be top dps on all trash packs, otherwise my e-pen doesnt feel gud
muh outlaw with a dh/frostmage, need more burst aoe
brazen prairie
Man, is 2xDD 2xNP better than 3xDD 1xNP? I know sims says so but still hard to believe
royal lantern
why would it not be better?
lament dove
I like DD better because it's not tied to a CD
brazen prairie
24k dmg every 2 min vs a constant procc
ye thats what i mean Stray
guess NP scales better with haste?
brazen prairie
doesnt DD samage also scales with mast?
full pagoda
I don't think it's better. There are different boss fights as a duration, depending on guild. There are also bosses with downtime. NP dmg is very dependant imo. Sometimes you can cast less vendettas. DD seems like a more safe pick.
harsh raven
does the DD/NP setup work well on bossfights with cleave, or do you get to tunnel on boss?
magic thorn
Hey guys quick Question. I dont raid Mythic past the first Boss so what Azerite Item should i buy? Shoulders to get more ST Ones, because i already have the SS/EB ones or go for chest and gamble for M+ ones because i already have DD/TdK ones. Im really unsure about this
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3rgmiCSNdxxSx17GwCYSJc
golden relic
so your asking us if u should buy gear for m+ or raid
well thats totally up to you isnt it
bronze kelp
and why do you sim 3 minutes? 😉
real bay
5 is default
solid nova
Standard is 5 yes
bronze kelp
But as dog already said, its up to you for which content you buy your next piece
onyx wind
Guys what is default time on patchwerk sim?
bronze kelp
your ST gear seams pretty good so far
onyx wind
Its 5? Thanks man
bronze kelp
trolling must be fun
magic thorn
ye nice joke btw
unique flax
i was wondering is there a ideal haste point you dont want to go under?
onyx wind
There isnt @unique flax
unique flax
i just sim and use all the gears
bronze kelp
nope, just sim it and take what raidbots tells you 😉
solid nova
No haste points, just follow your stat weights
unique flax
i mainly do m+
bronze kelp
more crit XD
onyx wind
You can go higher on haste for tyran
If you do high keys
Nobody brings assa to clear trash anyway
unique flax
i manage to pug a champion mythic got the 415 head piece
i run 3 ss/2eb/1tc
i might just roll for another head piece hope for ss/eb one
real bay
1 EB minimum
bronze kelp
and assa aoe is still good 😃
bronze kelp
but always depends on the dungeon
real bay
without at least 1 EB your aoe is trash
bronze kelp
i dont run CT for temple and KR
onyx wind
Just go outlaw if your group needs trash clear
real bay
Just go dh
onyx wind
Or just reroll ye 😃
brazen prairie
can someone confirm if DD scales with mastery or not? cant find info on net
unique flax
saying i didnt know non combat spec can do dmg
LOL
i think sin is just abit more trait focus
ss/eb
onyx wind
100%
unique flax
compared to outlaw
spice surge
DD scales with mastery yes
brazen prairie
ty
spice surge
You can just remove a piece of mastery and check if the damage goes down on the tooltip 😉
bronze kelp
lets say you got a DH + frostmage in your group, so trash dmg is absolutely no problem. What traits would one go for more prio target/ boss dmg? TTK?
spice surge
Yes, twist
onyx wind
Depends on your build
bronze kelp
2 or 3? 😃
spice surge
Ideal setup is something like 3x ttk, 2eb and 1ss
onyx wind
Doesnt TTK lose value the higher the key goes?
spice surge
eeeh, EB is still good prio damage regardless
onyx wind
I mean for tyran only
spice surge
SS definitely does though, if things outlive the initial garrote
real bay
EB doesn't SS does due to trash lasting longer
onyx wind
The higher the key goes, the more boss damage you need
strange python
I have 2xEB 2xSS 2xTTK all 415. It works very smooth :)
onyx wind
nice
bronze kelp
is there a point where you should take TB over exsang depending on how many ttk traits you have?
bronze kelp
hm...
cloud iris
@seliathan do u still play exsanguinate with this setup?
pseudo finch
ttk ?
bronze kelp
not bad at all. but as my ss/eb shoulders are 415, it will take a while to go a 3ttk way
desert vault
3 ttk this week huh? I did some little stuff with 2ss, 2eb, 2np which felt strong
marble hemlock
well, i play ttk every week
i just like the prio-potential
others can do the heavy lifting on reaping
and ST feels very nice, since a lot of damage comes from the TB windows, so pooling properly is important and feels impactful
desert vault
You pool to 80 to100?
marble hemlock
~120 usually
desert vault
Oh ok
bronze kelp
so you try to get 5 CP full with TB to start TB window with envenom i guess
marble hemlock
but 80-100 should be good enough even at the low hastelevels we're running for m+ to ensure 3envenoms per TB
marble hemlock
yeah
edgy ginkgo
any thoughts?
marble hemlock
i mean, when im at 5cp i just overcap CP with the TB
bronze kelp
ah okay 😃
solid nova
Why light movement?
edgy ginkgo
what should i use?
solid nova
For?
bronze kelp
patchwork
edgy ginkgo
raids
bronze kelp
for st
marble hemlock
i honestly think that just pretending that TB even generates CP is the way to go right now
marble hemlock
if you play around no CP overcaps with TB, youll either have to delay TB a lot, or refresh garrote/rupture during TB
edgy ginkgo
i thought light movement could be better cause there are some abilities i have to dodge^^
bronze kelp
hm... i might give it a chance. it was long time ago i used TB the last time ^^ always play with 3SS and exsang
solid nova
No
desert vault
What trinkets are you running @marble hemlock
marble hemlock
Mekkadork+Spyglass
bronze kelp
so @marble hemlock you still play CT on heavy trash dungeons?
desert vault
No dice huh? Just cause those others are better ilvl?
bronze kelp
or do you even consider HB or PB?
opaque pagoda
@marble hemlock what were your stats during that key you posted?
real bay
those 2 give much needed crit for EB
marble hemlock
1.7k crit, 1.1k mastery, 500haste, 300vers
nah, i run PB exclusively nowadays
with TB+TTK stacking
bronze kelp
hm... very interessting
marble hemlock
utilizing the high CP generation from the high-crit to play a subrogue-esque style
by just fok -> envenom spamming high hp targets
bronze kelp
but since you are a assa only player (most of your time), ill give it a try
marble hemlock
supplemented by TB for more prio, and PB since we get a decent amount of PB procs and dont really wanna spend CP on CT over envenom with that build
so it all kinda clicks together imo
and it feels nice to play, if you wanna prio you funnel envenoms into the target, if you wanna aoe you just maintain EP and spam fok and let EB carry your dps
very flexible and consistent dps, which is kinda what i play assa for. if i wanted to go giga aoe with like 3eb/3ss+CT, i might aswell play outlaw
and fuck outlaw
royal lantern
your kink man
nah, i just geared up outlaw cus its good for some fights in the current raid
marble hemlock
well, gearing outlaw at this stage is a lot easier, esp. for m+ where you run the same traits every dungeon anyway
assa gains flexibility once we have more azerite pieces and can tailor the trait setup to the dungeon
golden relic
runing same, x3ttk x2eb x1 ss this week. Feels nice
real bay
have better weps for outlawl but still play ass
golden relic
unfortunately not lucky enough to 415 all pieces but u kno, PL life
marble hemlock
😦
got lucky with the chest today
bought chest and got cepha-chest for juicy ttk/eb/unstable combo
golden relic
hopefully might get lucky this week and get opulence head and rasta shoulders
no1 needs them so , praying for the trade from ppl
marble hemlock
gl with that, got both of mine last week since no one really wants those pieces
mighty elm
3x Double dose, 2 nothin personal, 1 treacherous. is there any place to improve ?
only improvement i could find by simming was getting a 3rd nothing personal , which was 8 dps increase
frozen pecan
thats interesting
mighty elm
simmed alot of combinations with subterfuge and master assassin. best combo was this. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ruu2cTe4WmrnBo8DjTNWRP
just not sure what random azerite piece to aim for
spice surge
Gorak tul (shoulders) and cephalohide (chest) is the best
So aim for either of those
So with that setup the greatest increase is prob from shoulders, so hope for gorak tul like everybody else 😄
mighty elm
I actually yoloed and got the shoulders i needed 😛
im 3x Double dose , 3x NP now
not sure if there is anyway to sim higher than that
golden relic
with cyphohide you will
real bay
Blightborne sims higher than NP for me.. it depends
mighty elm
dont think cephalohide sims higher actually
spice surge
It does
mighty elm
with twist the knife?
mighty elm
oh ye true
that wouldve put me above 26k 
o well, overwhelming sims higher than it performs in raid eitherway no?
spice surge
On jaina yes, on other bosses no, not really
real bay
3x overwhelming is like mini BL
mighty elm
o well next week ill snipe that one
quartz rune
Any tips on cooldown timings on Grong Mythic? Subt with 3xSS
spice surge
Cloak tantrum, don't die and interrupt properly
But I mean, I'd you want to vanish on adds go ahead, but its mostly "pad" since they don't have to die asap
I just run standard St setup and use cds on boss
real bay
for us they die so slowly I just vanish adds , with better dps maybe different
quartz rune
So you use Dps Cds after adds or you just blast boss and Ignore adds?
wheat vigil
Depends on your raid strat
If you can hold them until lust without missing another full use, I’d do that
Ymmv
ocean rain
Thoughts on MA with 3dd 3 np?
wheat vigil
Sim it but it’s almost certainly the right choice
old summit
is double dose for raids?
ocean rain
ma is so rng tho
wheat vigil
I’d be tempted to go master poisoner with that but it wouldn’t be optimal. Just fun
spice surge
Mp does only afffect deadly poison
idle vigil
Parsed 98 this week
Suggest triple dotting vendetta opener, you will lose some uptime but it’s worth it
Every addset vanish and go for 3x empowered garrote
Refresh dots on other targets after you so your interior
Interupt*
real bay
do you manage to get emp garrote on both adds and boss?
I feel like there's not enough time
if boss is not taken close
edgy ginkgo
me again, sorry for spamming
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wViACqpHDsoUs3HZkPqXek
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iaR2yeJUddw4ZURj2aVZ61
thoughts? is losing 500 dps patchwerk worth it for higher comfort and chances for better aoe?
hollow stone
No. Thats a lot of dps
You should embrace your actual bis azerite and learn to be as comfortable with MA
elder hornet
For mass aoe where targets dont live very long like reaping, should I be FoKing to 4+ CP and Envenom one target, or just spam FoK on every gcd?
bronze kelp
if you cant place a rupture that ticks long enough for you to get better energy reg, just fok i guess
envenom only on low target count
on 20 targets, fok with EB does more dmg
austere scarab
You should almost definitely put out a Rupture, even if just for the top-off when the thing dies, no?
Else you won't be doing much fanning at all.
copper kestrel
I'm well-geared/traited for raiding and m+. Should I consider picking up outlaw?
elder hornet
alright, thanks a lot for the info! 😃
rose perch
@copper kestrel it's definitely worth trying - you might like it and it's certainly very powerful! but if you don't really want to try it you can absolutely succeed as sin in M+ too, you shouldn't feel pressured to
elder hornet
@rose perch as someone who recently rerolled to rogue, your YT vids have been incredibly helpful, thanks a bunch 😄
idle vigil
@real bay use step you can get it 100% of time
And first add set lines up perfectly to refresh your initial bleeds on boss with them spawning
Right before they spawn refresh rupture on boss
Vanish garrote step garrote both adds
Rupture both adds
real bay
yea will try
austere scarab
sprint / vanish / garrote / step garrote / tab garrote
if you really worry
sprint will be up every time too
kek
real bay
what if the adds spawn 30yd away from each other
does step save you still
you have to sprint from boss
austere scarab
you might be able to sprint / vanish from boss to the first one then step to the last one
but prob not
I think if they're split on the back of the room you're boned, there's an LoS issue
like, entry corner / around the stairs type interaction
idle vigil
Adds never spawn that far apart
They’re always a global away from each other as long as you have a speed increase whether it be sprint or step MS
real bay
once they did yesterday
austere scarab
wat
real bay
they do
idle vigil
Most of the time I can save sprint for getting back to the boss
real bay
most of the time they don't but they can
idle vigil
I mean you have 3 seconds to get off 3 global so you have a little bit of downtime before gcd
You don’t need to press it immediately so there’s more room
lethal mauve
guys if i play whith master assa my open would be gar-muti-rapture-vendetta(plumage)-shadow-TB-muti spam-envenom?
real bay
I mean they are sometimes 10yd apart , that's ez but not consistent
swear we had them spawn in opposite corners, ally has different room
same room as Mekka
dreamy aurora
ally gets much bigger room, you gotta get lucky with spawns to garrote all 3
thorn tartan
Ally
real bay
yep
idle vigil
I play ally idk man
They’ve always spawned quite close together
Never ever opposite sides of room
dreamy aurora
they spawn close together but farm in the corners
tho that stair thing can happen in our room too
idle vigil
Yeah but far doesn’t matter you have sprint step, what matters is how far apart they are
hollow stone
Or just play st MA and not worry about where they spawn 🤷♂️
dreamy aurora
well they can spawn in that one corner that ya cant reach intime to get third garrote off
idle vigil
And have significantly worse dps ://
idle vigil
There’s not a single oj parsing rogue on mythic grong with ma
hollow stone
I hear parsing means youre doing it right, guaranteed
hollow stone
And if you end up missing a garr, is ss subt still better?
rose perch
also if your kill time is like 4:30 and you would have had an extra vendetta/vanish as MA that's a huge amount of damage
hollow stone
Point i wanna make is there's more than one way to approach the fight
austere scarab
I think I dropped a garrote last night and still parsed above 90%
rose perch
also if you look at the fight from the boss dps perspective, you see a huge sea of MA despite the fact that only 15% of parses are using it: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/21#boss=2263&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination&metric=bossdps
austere scarab
This isn't Ghuun p1 tho, add damage matters still in a lot of guilds
real bay
will go MA when our dps stops slacking on adds
austere scarab
and you can do the best add damage with 1 trait
rose perch
yeah if your goal is to kill the boss as reliably as possible you need to evaluate what your add damage situation is like, and if you should be using your vendetta/vanish to help with that
hollow stone
Agreed. Neither of us are telling you what to do. Just pointing out alternatives
rose perch
for many guilds i imagine they'd kill in fewer pulls if people weren't cleave specced as much as they are on progression
but yeah obv if your goal is to get a rank 1 parse you should play subt/3SS and you should have your guild not damage the adds at all lol
in my guild we usually /roll on farm for the rights to be the person who damages adds like that and then everyone else has to ignore them
plush hill
Is it worth it to stack x3 DD and x3 NP or keep 1 Covenant. Do I trust the sims or do I nature dmg the boss to death? 😄
real bay
my guild does not let us have fun like that
austere scarab
we're still in a place where putting the right people on the right jobs is necessary. lol
and somehow I'm stuck rubystacking as outlaw on opulence. 😂
rose perch
@plush hill the sims are likely right although make sure you actually have full TC uptime (you can check it in "Buffs" on logs) and if you don't, you should re-sim with whatever % uptime you do have
hollow stone
Better than being told mid p1 that we need you to get ruby as sin
rose perch
on some fights (like mythic jaina) 100% is not realistic
so on those fights i'd go 3DD3NP
hollow stone
With how close np and tc are, and how cheap i am, id just go 3np and call it a day
austere scarab
yeah I'm starting to really like NP
rose perch
yeah certainly no shame in doing that if you don't mind losing 0.1% dps or w/e
hollow stone
Yea
rose perch
(which the only place where that kind of dps matters is mythic jaina and that's also a place where NP>TC anyway)
edgy ginkgo
with playing MA, how does my opener looks like? Mutilate, garrote, rupture?
rose perch
@edgy ginkgo Garrote, Mutilate, Rupture actually
no rush on getting the mutilate done but you want the garrote ticking ASAP
hollow stone
Its in the pins @edgy ginkgo but most do g m r to get that g tick going
Wow. Fricken dratnos
:p
rose perch
get sniped
edgy ginkgo
😄 thank u
austere scarab
lethal mauve
MA open muti-rapture-muti-gar-vendetta(plum)-envenom-muti-shadow-TB-envenom-muti(4-5)-envenom are better then standart open?
hollow stone
Nope. Those mutis dont have the env buff so low chance for dd. stick with the standard
copper kestrel
Thanks Dratnos. I'm happy with Sin & crushing my guild's meters in raid & M+. And time is limited. So I'm not terribly keen on picking up a new spec. But if Outlaw would help us progress / push keys, I'd do it
primal gazelle
@cobalt gyro usually FOK/EB is 25% of my damage each, im guessing you didnt have 3 EB
@marble hemlock do you have any logs using 3ttk
gray barn
Quick question,
On Bloodmallet Nothing Personal is the top followed by Double Dose and trech cov, When i sim triple DD and Triple NP i sim lower than Trip DD/2 NP/1 TC
why is that?
solid nova
Because the value of the first trait, outweighs that of the 2nd and 3rd
Look at the values the first trait of each gives you
gray barn
Double OP/1 GR
rancid blaze
So I have 2 EB traits. Is it worth running hidden blades talent for M+? Or should i have 3 EB for hidden blades to be worth it?
primal gazelle
id only personally run hb with 3 eb
OP is overvalued though, because you lose stacks in a real encounter due to damage
rose perch
You do on M jaina - OP is about 66% effective
But for other fights you really don't lose many stacks
And even at 66% effectiveness OP is still bis - although I'd take gutripper over it for M jaina because of the value of execute on that fight
hollow stone
I been watching my op stacks like a hawk. They do not lost stacks nearly as often as people imply
In m+, maybe. Havent done much sin m+ this season
Idk if youd even want op over heed or gr for m+ :/
Or even ele whirl
rose perch
I usually avoid heed in m+ since it can break CCs
hollow stone
Fair enough 😅
primal gazelle
what do you need to CC in m+ without infested 🤔
topaz crow
Kinda depends on the week dayvanie but usually try and cc anything that gonna kill ur tank or when u need to buy ur tank n heals some time
pine ore
if master assasin talented, how i should use 2nd vanish? ideally vendetta-vanish-tb -> envenom 4+ but what if i dont have tb up?
primal gazelle
heed has a 3 yard radius... if you have something cc'ed, you shouldnt be within cleave range of it anyways
fleet fossil
Can somebody check my traits and tell me which piece of azerite gear buy fro residuum ?
raven mica
Oh so our 2000 iq rogue was going into galaxy brain mode about the MA opener and why you garrote first instead of mut>rup>mut> garrote to maximize value of MA
I haven’t like touched MA this whole tier because I’ve always had an SS but is that like a bad opener simply cuz ur losing garrote uptime?
Oh he musta been here already
fleet fossil
Which azerite gear change ? (try to luck with residuum ) https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/defias-brotherhood/Mofevonthi
lone junco
Did you try getting 410 ilvl?
fleet fossil
u mean with residuum ?
primal gazelle
probably the chest if youre using a 385 one
lone junco
nah. was a jab at overall ilv.
fleet fossil
i mean luck with 675
well
there is only one shrouded here
so i ask because im not sure
primal gazelle
bis helm you can easily get from champions
your shoulders is good already, so buy chest
lone junco
3dd +np/tc combos. that ss chest is pretty lame
ye
feel the MATB
anyone raiding with crit stack?
fleet fossil
VEnture. Co Plenipotentiary Vest
lone junco
scent is not great.
valid spoke
fleet fossil
i have addon
azerite power weights
and it call me
NP - unstable catalyst - OP - Bulwark
lone junco
if you bought the item, use raidbots and select them all.
primal gazelle
i really like that shield trait
that one where you gain a 20k shield when 4 mobs are surrounding you
so OP for m+
buoyant coyote
hushed maple
When all my gems are crit and I want to sim the difference between crit and haste, do I have to select crit AND haste or just haste, since my items already have crit on them?
strange python
I played assa normal trait setup for Opulence.
hollow stone
Most just play st for opu. But depends if you guys are lacking add dmg
polar tapir
Same, assa normal traits setup for Opu
bold hearth
Finally got my last DD piece for MA, almost 25k pog https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/BkkTJxNkgVuE5JT6JBAaP
dark crag
strange python
is 2x Nothing Personal worth taking? I assume the energy gain doesn't stack but the damage does?
shy axle
Sim it. SInce the buff it may be worth. Warcraftlogs shows a few 3 DD/3 NP
but generally sure, it`s okay
lone junco
@strange python if you dont like the idea of TC damage bonus, then NP can be better. Sim does not take that into account.
fast heart
if I have one SS trait with toxic blade, do I want to wait with using garrote until my first garrote runs out?
strange python
yes, then reapply with vanish > garrote
typically when you go for the next garrote, you wait until the last tick has finished it's damage, then vanish, garrote (global) garrote
i usually get off a vanish garrote env garrote
all in that SS window
it's somewhere in a guide i was reading about reapplying w/ vanish
fast heart
ah thanks man
strange python
so the way i've done it is, if i vanish with 3 combo points, i'm guarenteed 2 from garrote, so i know i can garrote > rupt > garrote
so fellas/ladies, when running 3x EB/SS, is it more worth of taking hidden blades in m+? if we need dmg on adds
is blodmallet bugged?
says this is bis chest, the one from worldboss dooms howl
but it doesnt have double dose and nothing personal but only one of those rings
hollow stone
I suppose if it was 415 it would be bis
arctic harness
So generally for M+ you want helm from Opulence, Rastakhan shoulders and chest from Conclave, right? 2x SS, 2x TtK and 2x EB
hollow stone
If youre only getting az from raid and not tr. sure
strange python
also, is it worth stacking Overwhelming Power over any other 3rd ring?
serene basin
for raid, m+, in general?
strange python
raid, but general really
serene basin
yea pretty sure triple OP sims very high
strange python
weird, didn't know NP sims lower than BI
i don't feel like that should be the case
frank fjord
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
arctic harness
I just got Gorak Tul's Mantle and Blightborne simmed higher for me than the second NP as well
real bay
Blightborne is v good
strange python
3xDD, 2xNP, 1xTC OR
3xDD, 1xNP, 2xTC -50 sim dps
real bay
yep
arctic harness
Not running SS feels weird 2 😦
spice surge
Whenever bloodmallet or herodamage sim traits they compare it to 0 traits. So its the gain of using 3 DD (or whatever trait) over having 0 traits
strange python
ah swapped out some stuff and BI sims lower than NP now good
spice surge
And some traits which benefit greatly from having other traits therefore show up as less strong
strange python
currently running 3x DD, TC SS NP
i'm trying to fuck off with the TC and get either another NP or SS idk yet
strange python
yeah i just did that heh
throwing my shit off with a 375 dagger and a 340 >_>
i've been incredibly unlucky with daggers atm, but trinket luck has been top notch
strange python
oh dude, i've run like.. maybe 12 10+s in the last 2 days
nothing
i did get like 8 cloaks and rings tho 😢
strange python
ive got 2 harlans lmao
primal gazelle
ew shaman
strange python
but yeah, i do need daggers and shoulders from there tbh
strange python
enh is the biggest "press this" spec lmao
primal gazelle
why reroll from master class rogue to sham tho
primal gazelle
tru
round harbor
Enhance is also my favourite spec in the gamd
Got 4.7k in legion with it
When that was actually a decent score
simple meteor
wait nothing personal is best trait now?
strange python
is there a scam with the (free 9+ carry link key)
edgy ginkgo
would you go with GCB (400) or gladitrinket (385)^^?
lone junco
(^.^)
strange python
Glad trinket, then you dont have to respecc from PVP. Can just claim you're PVP main 😃
LOL
primal gazelle
wtf
strange python
such a cunt 😭
royal lantern
gz man
strange python
another rogue. in the group.
royal lantern
weeeeeeeeell
strange python
just got that. i'm committing rn
strange python
i felt bad, he was running a 370 kimbul's
royal lantern
just blackmail him irl or something and then get overit
strange python
Nice upgrade for him then
he didn't realize how much of a HUGE upgrade that was lmfao
full pagoda
GUys, can ya help me with my sims, as I don't really get em
strange python
Provide your issue, and i bet some kind soul will help out
thorny shore
reduze input lag is good or nah?
full pagoda
It's about ST build, I was using off hand 400 dagger, got 410 from weekly chest it shows -0.1% less dmg with the higher ilvl. So, I was thinking to switch some mastery gems back to haste, as I've lost some haste with the new dagger but when I sim stat weight it still shows me I am mastery hungry.
Old dagger sim https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/58YhKbHBVruMnpasnHBxLd
New dagger sim https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gBSmwnkupqioayuRrkKQKG
Stat weights https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pxaeDUncL3NzTnVUV4ibRm
I just don't know should I get some haste gems back or not x.x, why does it still show mastery hunger
lone junco
lol +/- 25dps
lone junco
offhand dagger is irrelevant.
it is a stat stick and a socket there makes a difference
lone junco
all of our stuff is main hand damage except the mut hit.
and that is small
you can see offhand weapon dps weight in the sim.
primal gazelle
tfw when im closer to triple bis 415 azerite set up for outlaw than i am for sin 😦
bleak spoke
meanwhile my ilevel parses are depleted https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qWVCi3UTCfZVtFKpAbnnwN
full pagoda
@lone junco wow.... 1.29, fucking horrible lel, didn't notice it before tbh
lone junco
I had a 350 offhand socket over 375 offhand for a while.
but thats what sims are for.
bleak spoke
yeh offhand sockets are nutty
primal gazelle
not having 10 sockets in 2019 🤔
full pagoda
I still believe if I switch some gems should be better, not -25, still simming
lol
just simmed and I got this out https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v3jgVXMbxbNb1qqU24i6V1
I should get all haste back and put masterful enchant on off hand?! Seems super wierd
lone junco
if you have money to burn just run the combos. and let it speak to you
I like crit ench for M+. and haste for ST.
but im a poory
sturdy python
It’s showing to keep mastery gems and haste ring enchants but scrolling down all haste is the same
sturdy python
Essentially
sturdy python
He’s saying the gems don’t matter whether you pick haste or mastery
Simming the same, assuming you swap to mastery weapon enchant anyway
round harbor
In the end does anything matter
sturdy python
Changing deadly nav to masterful is 0.1% increase according to that
Swapping gems from haste to mastery is equal
Don’t think you dimmed ring enchants
Basically, it’s all very close for you. Can consider haste is less important in m+ if that matters to you at all
mental snow
is general raiding spec sin or outlaw?
full pagoda
@mental snow Sin
@sturdy python well it does as I am using a bit different things for M+, using equipmenet manager but can't waste so much gold for not much of a difference
I will resim and see how it goes + rings
sturdy python
I don’t think it’s big enough to worry about if you’re low on gold
Esp if you run EB in m+ you’d probably want to keep that deadly nav on
full pagoda
Yeah, forgot about that
well in the end I really cannot decide to use the old or new dagger, was happy about the new one, it comes out it doesn't even matter lel
sturdy python
Yeah, socket off hand is strong
golden relic
@marble hemlock how much mastery you running in your m+ set? Feel like im going over the top with crit , but on the other hand, can one go over the top with crit in m+ 
full pagoda
But yeah, now I also simmed the rings and it honestly there's no difference if it's haste or mastery on either gems or enchants, the difference is super low. Just a gold waste
bold hearth
So I'm looking at logs for MA/DD build and the top 3 logs on Mekka (most ST boss) all use a opener that differs from the APL, is this just misinformation?
bleak spoke
seli has mega crit with two crit trinkets
@bold hearth if they're doing vanish tb envenom muti that's pretty standard too
golden relic
ye ik i use the same and i think I have more sockets then him, but he uses mastery gems and i just went full crit, but i lack crit mastery gear, most of mine is crit/vers /crit/haste
golden relic
idk whyd you would mut after vanish
bleak spoke
i do vanish envenom muti envenom
primal gazelle
what azerites are you running dog
bleak spoke
cuz i think it's better idk
bold hearth
I mut after vanishing because thats what the APL says to do
golden relic
x2 ttk x2ss x2eb or same as seli this week x3 TTK x2eb x1 SS
primal gazelle
seli plays with 3 ttk which may be why he gems for mastery
golden relic
i saw u were running x3 EB with HB
primal gazelle
HB > PB 😃
golden relic
Mm, ye i would understand the mastery gemming for x3 TTK but maybe even for x2
curious
primal gazelle
CT is just trash and i hate using it
bleak spoke
and on ST even with just 2 EB it seems to do more dmg than pbomb on ST
golden relic
not tried any HB , gotta give it a go
bleak spoke
i used to love CT but i think without exsang you actually don't have the energy to get started with it soemtimes
and it's straight garbaj on reap
golden relic
when your running HB anyway, do you ever let it stack outside of ST
bleak spoke
no
golden relic
or u just play as normal
primal gazelle
you pretend its not there
bleak spoke
just play normal
primal gazelle
it boost your avg fok damage by 50% over the course of a dungeon
bleak spoke
the worst hb experience is when you try to stack it
while you're supposed to be using it
while you're supposed to be using fok* you do like no dam
golden relic
so on a boss u just wait to 20 and use it
bleak spoke
yeh
golden relic
gna give it a go, how much crit u running with HB
strange python
dagger dry streak is getting old
primal gazelle
lol i have 42% crit with food
bleak spoke
yeah vers affects EB alot i think
primal gazelle
without trinket procs
bleak spoke
you're running spyglass oscillator right?
primal gazelle
but for this tyrannical week i swapped all my gems to haste since im doing 20+ keys now and ST is somewhat important...
strange python
give me ur daggers pls
golden relic
but id lose some haste so idk
primal gazelle
37% crit is pretty good
golden relic
ye, I have mekka trink aswell
strange python
whens exs > tb? is exsang still a thing this tier?
golden relic
makes sense
Was thinking of galecallers for tyranical , since like the lack of haste maybe it would be nice
but plume is nice aswell
golden relic
Ye I know , plume would have more value for trash aswell in that case
I just like the circle
i like standing in circles
idk why most of the time i hope for a galecallers from m+ chest lol
hard coral
i am using harlan / variable intensity gigavolt is it ok ?
primal gazelle
ya thats fine