assassination

[sleek cargo]

for conclave fight is it better to focus the boss your downing or try throw a rupture/garotte on the other boss for energy regen?

like when the tanks swap and they run past each other try bleed the other boss for energy or just focus the primary one

[real bay]

minimal gain at best imo and you have to keep poison on too

[sleek cargo]

yeah

[wild ledge]

Yeah doesn’t seem worth

[strong needle]

For mythic plus, would you guys go
3 EB, 1 SS, 1 BI, 1 SoB
2 SS, 2 EB, 2 SoB
1 EB, 3 SS, 2 SoB?

[earnest pilot]

does it matter which weapon has which enchant

does one proc more than the other

[strong needle]

Nope, doesn't matter

[earnest pilot]

mmk ty

[wild ledge]

@strong needle did you try simming a dungeon slice? I’d imagine the middle option but depends on level of key, affixes etc

But SS and echo by far the biggest value so whatever maximises those traits above the others

[strong needle]

Yeah I tried most combinations but I was not 100% that dungeon slice was accurate, kinda depends on dungeon, level of key etc I guess.

Reaping or not, FH vs ToS etc.

Sims is higher with 3 SS, but I felt like just one EB was not enough. Dunno, just a feeling

You guys know what level of M+ Dungeon slice uses?

[solid nova]

In terms of?

[wild ledge]

I assume he means pack size, mob hp etc

[solid nova]

"Roughly speaking, the enemy sequence being simulated looks something like this:

Boss for just over 2 minutes (lust will be used for this boss)
4–6 mobs for 11–19 seconds
1–3 mobs for 26–34 seconds
4–6 mobs for 11–19seconds
1–3 mobs for 26–34 seconds
Continue alternating between large and small packs until the end of the sim
There will be variable gaps of time between trash pack"

[vestal wren]

you can ignore 0

stdev just means there is a variation on those

[strong needle]

Sorry yeah meant in term of pack size

[vestal wren]

also the fight style is looked into to resamble m+ more accurately

so it will unavoidable change sooner or later

[fleet fossil]

why on dummy my envenom and melle did more dmg than rupture ticks ?

garote on 1st place

[dark crag]

If one rupture tick does more damage than an envenom hit, something is wrong

[crystal vault]

For the MA opener with DD, do i vendetta TB multilate vanish envenom, or vendetta vanish TB... ?

[spice surge]

It doesnt really matter

Tb inside MA makes you unable to be scewed by rng but the average of the both is pretty much the same

[lone junco]

@wide delta I set tank as focus and tricks at focus. but you could (if so inclined) after agro assist a target an trix that. would get into some fun situations where you trix the healer on accident.

[timid cradle]

it Echo/shrouded not meta for m+?

[lone junco]

it can be,

if you had 3ss and 3eb, grats. i guess.

but there are other options.

[timid cradle]

thats what Im running right now

[lone junco]

for echo to work, you need to be running mongo crit.

[strange python]

#showtooltip Tricks of the Trade
/target name
/cast Tricks of the Trade
/targetlasttarget

Easy tricks macro :p

[tawny sable]

Define Mongo crit please

[cloud iris]

35% crit + spyglass works for me

[idle vigil]

Is there a way to target tank always

Like through role or something

[cloud iris]

I do at party1

Tanks usually have lead

[ruby oxide]

/cast [target=mouseover] Tricks of the Trade

Cast it by mousing over their raid/party panel

before every pack, and at the beginning of every pull timer I just click on the tank's health bar with my middle mouse button and throw tricks out

[strange python]

middle mouse is kick 😭

[lone junco]

I set the tank as focus and cast @ focus. have done it effectively for about 3yrs probably. was a small time when it was bugged.

and have a direct tricks if I need to be a peasant.

[ruby oxide]

Every once in a while I get "target invalid" but it's the same if I manually target and try to cast, not sure why it happens

[strange python]

Get that aswell, normally happens after they've been mounted and it doesnt register them as dropping mount

[ruby oxide]

I fucking hate when tanks pull from a mount though

[strange python]

word.

[flat onyx]

Does the Nightstalker buff empower Rupture?

Icy Veins says it does, but i cant see a buff ingame. Am i doing something wrong?

[spice surge]

There is no buff ingame, it just does more damage

[strange python]

Yea, if you apply a rupture and then vanish and sit in vanish Nightstalker buffs RUpture by 50%

or what u on about? 😄

[vestal wren]

i would look at wowhead instead of icy vains, i am not sure about icy vains quality for assassination

[flat onyx]

ah okay, i thought it would work like garrot

[spice surge]

That too ^

[flat onyx]

Thanks 😃

[karmic ingot]

I use this addon for tricks. It frees up my focus target for other stuff like interrupts, shadow step, CC, etc. It adds a minimap icon that lists up to 2 players in your group or raid in a tank spec. You just click on the name and it updates your macro to tricks that person. You can also use it to set your tricks macro to your current target or to a specific name. I like it better than my old focus macro.

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/tricks-trader

[full pagoda]

Can somebody help me to make a good macro for kick aka interrupt between switching targets?

[strange python]

Mouseover kick, focus kick?

[full pagoda]

I am not even sure how to explain it but for example people tag a target with a star or square, how to make a macro that works to be switching between?

I am pretty bad at this

[karmic ingot]

/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead,exists][]Kick

[vestal wren]

you cant dynamically change a target in macros

[strange python]

Set the target you want a macro for as focus, and make a focus kick macro. Or just have a mouseover macro

#showtooltip Kick
/cast [target=focus, harm] Kick; Kick

[vestal wren]

you can have a /target mobname macro with more lines if you want to have a priority thing, sth like that was f.ex. used on archi mythic in hfc

[karmic ingot]

Focus macros work well for M+ interrupt assignments if you’re assigned to interrupt a target that is not the kill priority.

[vestal wren]

else, yes a mouseover or focus macro would work

[full pagoda]

well yeah it's for M+ so

[strange python]

Id go with focus macro then Aya, and you just set the mob sa focus before pull

[full pagoda]

the thing is I usually don't use focus xD

kinda hate it

[strange python]

Well then, either tab kick or mouseover kick

[full pagoda]

whats counted as a mouseover? the target I am attacking or?

or I necessarily have to click with mouse on the target?

[dark crag]

Hover with the cursor over it

[shy axle]

big diffeerence between MA usage #1 Vanish-TB-Mut-Env and 4cp-Van-Env-Mut-Env? Difference between Ravenholdt and dratnos video guide

[lone junco]

@flat onyx nightstaker rupture used to be a thing in legion. would vanish rupture. and it would tick heavy. but thats not a thing right now cause rupture is way lower on the profile than subterfuge SS garrotes.

@shy axle I prefer the 4+ cps. tb vanish env mut (mut) env. cause I dont feel good vanish at 3+ into TB Env Mut.

I could probably 0cp vanish tb mut env. but there are some chances you get 1cp on tb and 2 cps on mut. then you would TB mut mut anyway.

[shy axle]

ye my thoughts, I prefer it also

thanks

[brisk frost]

yo team

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tHHVKoZVBoPuLBg7GUkVM9

blightborne or NP on sholders? blightborne sims harder, but most logs are made with duplicated NP's

[spice surge]

Not everybody has the exact same pieces to choose from

Blightborne definitely seems like the correct choice here

Only the first piece of NP is incredibly strong, subsequent pieces are slightly weaker (but still good). Blightborne is just such a strong procc though, you'd rather have it

[steep basin]

Anyone know how to add Toxic Blade to slice admiral?

[round harbor]

Wtf is slice admiral

[steep basin]

old addon

Basically dynamic group WA that doesnt require you to make them

[round harbor]

So like a worse version of wa

[steep basin]

I dont see how?

[round harbor]

Probly only the creator can add custom lines like that. Whereas wa can be made in 10 seconds by anyone

That's why I say that

[steep basin]

Got it for outlaw rtb originally but yep I might have to switch over anyways

[fleet whale]

that trinket from Crucible of Storms is looking pretty good to me...

[nimble skiff]

What is your opinions on assassination vs outlaw for m+?

[royal lantern]

outlaw is better for lower keys cus sin needs stuff too stay alive for a longer time too gain aoe value

in higher/really high keys assassination slowly gets the upperhand again imo

[cerulean walrus]

Outlaw all the way

[grizzled jay]

Both are just fine to push m+

[nimble skiff]

My current thinking is that outlaw is great if you need that crazy burst aoe, but assassination is much better for smaller packs and bosses

[cerulean walrus]

Depends on your gear. Outlaw does just fine in ST

[nimble skiff]

Hm, okay. I haven't played much of outlaw but once i get the weapons I'll have to test it out

[dark barn]

soo Thoughts on My'das Talisman?

[nimble skiff]

Is there still the thing with garrotes where applying a non-buffed garrote from subterfuge would drop all the damage of the garrotes to the non-buffed one?

[lost horizon]

No that's fixed

[nimble skiff]

Sweet

[hearty oriole]

I've noticed on blootmallet most of the top trinkets are crit or vers. My stat weights say mastery and haste are up top. Is that out of the ordinary. Talking about patchwerk.

[primal gazelle]

@round harbor barely beat this outlaw in 17 WM lol

i definitely tried too hard for this tho lmao

[cerulean walrus]

using 15 pots instead of just embracing your inner pirate

[primal gazelle]

😦

[cerulean walrus]

Imagine what you could have done if you had been Outlaw with 15 pots

Wew lad

[primal gazelle]

wym

i am an outlaw rogue

look at my details

[stable pine]

@primal gazelle but can you burst 2mil?

[cerulean walrus]

🤔

Outlaw with FoK OPOP

[primal gazelle]

i say yes 🤔

[dense delta]

When reaping mobs are up, do i use my 5cp all the time or do i tank them and spam fok as much as i can?

and just here and there sniping a rupture for energy

[real bay]

keep envenom buff up but just spam fok if you have enough energy

which you should have

[elfin fossil]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[eternal sigil]

Outlaw is going to do more flat damage, especially with reaping existing. Sin utility and priority damage balances the group out well.

I thank 3 traits of shrouded suffocation for that haha

[edgy pawn]

quick question: on jadefire mythic, do you vanish before or after the first monk game?

[slow mortar]

@edgy pawn while i've only been getting to maze phaze, (also I run 3ss on the fight) i've been saving vanish for when kitties pop into the group

[edgy pawn]

so the first vanish after the game when the first xuens spawn?

[slow mortar]

yess

[spice surge]

Thats at like 1 min into the fight

[real bay]

i would not wait for xuens, either do it after puzzle or like normally

[spice surge]

Its gonna depend on when you BL

Either you do on pull or after first seven

[edgy pawn]

right now we use bl on the wall

dont ask why 😄

[real bay]

thats a big waste

[strange python]

Hiyas question for a newb. Best talent tree for leveling?

[slow mortar]

my thoughts were priority damage via getting 2 subt+SS garrotes on kitties, 1 on monk and the 4th on firecaster then rupture up everything (3-5 ruptures on kitties)

[real bay]

they die too fast for to be worth imo, at least for us

i just rupture them and stun if needed

[slow mortar]

🤷 thats on me then for not noticing after i dot them up

[real bay]

at least, they should die fast

[slow mortar]

group i run with have a few people that have problems with the dances

[real bay]

we have the same 1-3 people who die

always

[lost sentinel]

woah, my highest damage on this shrine run was echo blades, I don't know if I have seen that before

[slow mortar]

side note, got a tiny electro in a jar (hey tiny oozling!) and while it follows your crit and seemingly stacks faster when fok spamming, it does not get buffed by TB (which i guess is expected)

butttt it hits 3 targets for ~7k each

[lost sentinel]

so many small shits in reapings, and small things along the way, gotta be it

[keen mist]

https://imgflip.com/i/2ud6ek @marble hemlock

[marble hemlock]

😦

toxic speed 😦

[strange python]

@edgy pawn BL on wall seems pretty dumb tbh 😦

[urban tulip]

Is it possible to precloak Avalanche?

[grim cedar]

Hey guys just got a 400 plumage from kr but it's only showing as a tiny upgrade on my 385 spy glass? Thought it would have been a bigger jump going off blood mallet?

[lost sentinel]

You might need more crit than vers overall

[thick galleon]

Hello, i was a hunter for a while but now i switched to rogue

is the /simc import into raidbots and then paste stat prio in pawn working for rogue?

[vast forum]

should work for every spec

but simming top gear should be better than stat weights

[mellow narwhal]

Hey, i can play outlaw and assass, but what is better for mythic+ as thats all ill be doing on it?

[graceful vine]

FoK two target with 3EB?

[sturdy python]

Yes

[real bay]

2 and more

[graceful vine]

Cool, ty

[fallen pendant]

Hello guys, can someone help me with my rogue? i don't know if i do i nice job or bad job in my raid, sometime i got a nice dps and other times he's bad, there's my log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/a1KTQ8AFNvpLmXYw/#fight=12&type=damage-done&source=9 ; Thanks a lot !

[mellow narwhal]

also is there an inbetween for the stat prio for single target and multi? as mythic+ is what i do

[warm canopy]

Maybe I'm stupid, but currently mastery is my highest simming stat by a decent bit. Is that because I already have high haste/crit or is that stat based solely on my azerite?

[sturdy python]

@mellow narwhal In large aoe haste becomes a lot less important because you will be energy capped from Venomous Wounds. When you get EB traits crit becomes more important. Dont ignore haste though because dungeons like KR or temple dont often have large pulls in them.

Usually because you have more haste/crit Gosus

[warm canopy]

Thanks, that's what I was thinking

[hoary crown]

Where can i find the best assasination guide? 😃

[round harbor]

[civic palm]

https://tenor.com/view/up-look-up-above-point-up-gif-8086794

[strange python]

why Level 45: Vigor over Marked for Death? Marked seems so helpful

[cobalt pelican]

why is there so much difference between bloodmallet and herodamage racial sims? / is there a standout best race on alliance?

[civic palm]

@strange python Because it performs better in the simulated setting.
@cobalt pelican Could be a lot of things, from updates to how things are measured, etc.

[strange python]

Thanks miz

[civic palm]

MFD gains a ton of value when there are tons of targets to chain it on, the numbered needed though, I've no idea.

Don't just blindly follow the SIMs though, if you are making better use of MFD than you are making use of Vigor then have at it.

WHO DARES PING MEEEEEEEEE

[strange python]

yeah MFD seems better for M+ where Vigor seems better for raid bosses

[civic palm]

Which isn't always the case, as we need better finishers to make MFD worth it. Envenom is great in ST but not very good in multi-target.

[lyric galleon]

Is there any reason ( even trait wise) to be Nightstalker instead of Subterfuge for raid bosses?

[civic palm]

Nope.

The crit is better for the abilities you want to amplify with Nightstalker, and Garrote is clearly better with Subterfuge than Nightstalker.

Though I am sure that it's close.

[fleet whale]

they would probably need to buff rupture up a bit to make nightstalker more appealing

[lyric galleon]

I had another rogue in guild that thinks Nightstalker is better.

[fleet whale]

it was better, in Legion lol

[civic palm]

baring no other changes it's about 2% difference

[lyric galleon]

I figured the 80% free Garrote was always better and have been Sub without even thinking of changing to Nightstalker at all.

I have been Double Dose x3 this whole time. I could do Nothing Personalx2 atm, but I feel that is a dps loss.

[civic palm]

If you wanna dictate your DPS on feeling alone you might as well just not worry about it.

[lyric galleon]

Haha fair enough. Thank you for the info!

[civic palm]

No problemo.

[modest badge]

can u vanish or evasion a coin shower on opulance?

[sturdy python]

no

[spice surge]

@raven mica

[civic palm]

You can solo Coin Shower...

to your grave.

[round harbor]

Thought about how we could solo

Asked our sham if i died on purpose to the gold on the ground when it's expanded if ankh totem would work. Theorhetically it could

Since the gold wouldnt be :massive: dmg

But too.kuch coordination to work I think

[civic palm]

Coin Shower is something like 4x our current overkill threshold.

[round harbor]

Yeah

So my idea was die to the gold instead

If I got coin shower on me

[civic palm]

Yeah but that's not SOLOing it, relying on the shaman > _>"

[round harbor]

Same

Also he said whatever talent they have to give up probly isn't worth it

IDK rsham things but I trust him

[civic palm]

Yeah 10% is too good to give up.

Just get more paladins > _>"

[round harbor]

Our rsham rerolled from hpally lol

[civic palm]

IIRC no one else can give Vigor atm.

[silver horizon]

Anyone have the opener for Double Dose/ nothing personal 3 and 3 traits?

[civic palm]

Neither of those change the openers that are listed in the guide.

[silver horizon]

assume we rock master assassin then though

[civic palm]

Then follow the guide...

[fringe lily]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[ancient niche]

Hey guys I'm just leveling my rogue from 110 was wondering does the energy regen get better at end game? I don't like the feeling of not being able to use an ability for one or two seconds waiting for energy.

[feral flower]

What are you guys using to sim for multi boss / cleave situations?

Simming 2 bosses or cleave etc keeps coming up with scent as optimal when I have ideal SS pieces.. to add, SS pieces feel much more efficient / productive in actual situations and encounters.

I hate to get all feelycraft but yeah

[sturdy python]

Are you talking Jadefire or M+ trash?

Because simming dungeonslice/40s long sims is much different than 4 mins of 2 bosses

[little sandal]

hello guys anyone has a elviui i can copy

[civic palm]

https://wago.io/elvui

[scarlet wing]

I have 3 eb 3 shrouded now. This is fkn insane. This damage omegalul is higher than combat

[modest badge]

do people run MA with echo blade or can u do sub

[glossy kestrel]

@ancient niche make sure you have poisons on your weapons if you feel erngy starved. that said, Asn is one of the lowest APM specs in the game, so if you don't like waiting between pressing buttons, consider a different spec.

outlaw is much busier

[rustic ether]

@modest badge depends on what youre doing

memeing burst dps

or running the optimal 3SS 3EB

if youre running 3SS 3EB no MA is worthless

if youre just trying to do stupid bullshit and pulling the first twenty mobs in motherlode definitely pick MA

[echo cargo]

when you craft a 415 ring and get low crit high haste first try

fucking pog

[drifting cloud]

whats the price of gems on your realm?

[robust spire]

Is it worth to use yulon 420+soc with 415 kimbul, cause i heard yulon does 3%. I did not tested it yet, but my simc tells me galecaller 490 is better a little about 130dps. What do you think?

[rustic ether]

yeah yulon is pretty shit

[robust spire]

Sorry galecaller 400

[chilly goblet]

alch trinket any good for sin rogues?

[rustic ether]

nope

[chilly goblet]

thanks

[fresh shuttle]

Howdy. I recently got a Galecallers Boon on my Assa. When is the best time to use it in the opener? I play with Shrouded Suffocatoin and Subterfuge, if that helps.

[rustic ether]

before exsanguinate, thatll be $10

[fresh shuttle]

Thanks, that's when I've been popping it, just wanted to confirm if I was doing it right or not, first time I've had that trinket. I'd send you $10 but I'm broke :p

[rustic ether]

yeah you want max haste before exsanguinate, thats when it snapshots the haste

[strange python]

whens bleeds > poison build? is that determined by sims/gear/traits atm?

[hollow stone]

Sims but in current available "bis", never

[strange python]

ah okay, i was confused by the guide since it mentioned running SS, for some reason i thought that was for poison build lol. looks like just 3x DD then

[rustic ether]

@primal gazelle testing out HB and its actually pretty fun, do you EVER use a fully stacked FoK if you know youll still be in boss for another full stack to build up?

[primal gazelle]

yea use it at full stacks on ST

[rustic ether]

used it on a really shitty FH 10 for a guildie and it felt decent

[steep obsidian]

meh

did you have eb traits?

[primal gazelle]

if youre not using eb in m+, what are you even doing?

[rustic ether]

3SS 2Eb 1BI

so not perfect EB but still doing good dmg

[grave elk]

Could someone take a look at my log and give me feedback on something I can improve https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/j1k3nY49tHqD8hd7#fight=4&type=casts&view=timeline&source=15

[small aurora]

so is EB simming correctly?

im new to rogue and that number on bloodmallet seems insane

[bleak spoke]

@grave elk macro that trinket to vendetta >_>

[grave elk]

Does that mean I have to have a different keybind for them both when they don’t align?

[bleak spoke]

they will always align

that's a 2 minute trinket

[grave elk]

Hm alrightvthanks. Anything else?

[bleak spoke]

don't envenom right before tox blade

like i'm looking 30 seconds in

and i don't know about your E situation

i just know it's not good

cuz you garrote envenom tox blades

you're probably sitting at like 30 E

just hold the envenom it won't run away friend

and then you refresh rupture immediately in it

like you want to output envenoms when you tox blade

[grave elk]

Ok so your saying cast tb at full combo points

[bleak spoke]

yes

5 cp tox blade is fine

[grave elk]

So then my envenom isn’t wasted

[bleak spoke]

yeh

those 1-2 cp aren't worth losing not just 1 but maybe 2 envenoms in your blades

[grave elk]

Ok makes sense

[bleak spoke]

you got 1 envenom in that tblades

with that rupture refresh

that's not optimal by any stretch of the imagination

[grave elk]

Yah so say I have 5 cp and rupture is gonna need refresh in 12. And Tb comes up. What do I do

[bleak spoke]

you have 5 cp and rupture gonna need refresh in 12

tb -> env -> mutis -> env -> mutis -> env -> mutis (tb ends) -> rupture

tb is 9 s

don't be afraid to clip rupture or lose even like 1/2 a second of it

[grave elk]

Ok gotcha

Thanks man

[bleak spoke]

the energy feels really shitty when you lose rupture uptime

but it's better than losing the envs in tb

cuz ultimately you need that energy to let envs go right?

so don't sabo yourself to get energy for nothing in particular

[grave elk]

Yeah I got a 43 parse there but based on my ilvl I scored a 76 so I know I can do better

[bleak spoke]

you're not gonna lose a mutilate off of missing a second of rupture

yeye

[grave elk]

Do you always pair vendetta with cloak

[bleak spoke]

why

ther'es nothing to cloak on that fight

[buoyant coyote]

Wat??

[grave elk]

I mean vanish

Sorry

[bleak spoke]

the second one yeah

[grave elk]

Ok cuz it’s like 20 second to hold it

Right

[bleak spoke]

like in a 3:20 fight like you just had you're not going to get a 3rd vendetta right?

[grave elk]

Then they pair

[bleak spoke]

so theoretically you can vendetta whenever before 3 mins

[grave elk]

Yah

[bleak spoke]

and still be okay

so set up conditions for yourself that are favorable

[grave elk]

Okay makes sense

[bleak spoke]

why vanish at exactly 2:21 or whatever when you can just refresh rupture before, for example

[grave elk]

Is that what I did

[bleak spoke]

and then go through another tb cycle so you get vendetta garrote env garrote tb or something like that

nah but if you hold the vend for vnaishh thta situtaion comes up

[grave elk]

Honestly I just see shit needing refresh and I go

[bleak spoke]

where rupture is falling off if you refreshed it immediately on pandemic every time

the best case is you get 4 envenoms in your TB for second vendetta

obviously some big crits necessry but

3 should be guaranteed

[grave elk]

Gotcha. Ok so your saying just hold vendetta to make sure I have rupture running. Do Tb cycle then go fresh into vanish vendetta combo

Or do the vanish vendetta before Tb

[bleak spoke]

yeh cuz rupture is your highest controlled finisher by far - least energy, highest duration per execute time

i'd vanish before vendetta

cuz you get 24s of garrote innit

you can fit the whole vendetta and the whole rupture inside your vendetta without a single refresh the second time

you can fit the whole vendetta inside empowered garrote* rather

and the whole vendetta inside your rupture

so ideally you do like at 2 cp garrote 5 cp rupture -> garrote vendetta tb -> envs

then you're heavily energy positive too

cuz vendetta energy dump + tb costs very little

[grave elk]

So just cast vanish first get built up points rupture then vendetta so maximum dps

Makes sense

[bleak spoke]

if you never refresh garrote or rupture inside vendetta cuz they're running that's the best situation

cuz casting eitehr of them don't get an inherent benefit from vendetta

it's just dropping them that is bad

[grave elk]

Cuz getting energy regen at end of that combination would feel better

Alright I’ll have to go practice in a low m+ on boss to hash this in

[bleak spoke]

yeah i'd use a dummy tho cuz if you're geared enough for mythic m+ bosses on forti will last like 1:30 until you're in like 13, 14 keys

[grizzled jay]

It's the same on 16 17 18 keys with hero

[last rune]

Guys can someone help me real quick. Its about azerite gear

[bleak spoke]

yeh 16 key bosses this week are fucking jokes after last week diavolo haha

[grizzled jay]

Can barely fit another vendetta in😞

[bleak spoke]

i get so mad when bosses end like 2:10

and it's like PULL SOMETHING SO I CAN VENDETTA PLEASE

[last rune]

I just now got a purple chest where i can choose between Echoing blades and Nothing personal, but i already have nothing personal on my shoulders

[bleak spoke]

do you play m+ or raid

for raid take the second np for m+ you want some ebs

[last rune]

Yeah but i already have it on my shoulders but its a blue item

does it stack?

[sturdy python]

The damage does

[last rune]

Woah thats new to me

Thank you

[grizzled jay]

I don't wanna play outlaw guys. People in higher keys already be like "you play sin"?

😔 😔 😔 😔

[primal gazelle]

LOL i get that reaction all the time

[grizzled jay]

It's insane

[last rune]

Do you mean like people want sin more than outlaw?

or the other way around

[grizzled jay]

Other way even tho it doesn't make sense

[last rune]

So people want outlaw more than sin

[grizzled jay]

I play 2TTK 2SS 2EB and I'm on par with everyone usually

I prolly need to go full padding to shut them up

Even tho it might hurt timer

[primal gazelle]

dont be on par

you have to be above them

100% of the time

[grizzled jay]

This Wednesday I will random the 415 EB SS head

100%

And the carnage will start

[last rune]

I mean i think that outlaw has pretty good aoe maybe thats why

[grizzled jay]

It pads very good on small risen souls tea

Yes

[primal gazelle]

if i were to pull a statistic outta my ass, i would say the average outlaw will beat out the average sin rogue by a pretty significant margin, just due to how easy outlaw is to play/gear compared to sin

[sturdy python]

It hardly just pads, it's a very strong spec since wits

Not to say sin isn't strong, because it is

[primal gazelle]

but there will only be a 1-2% difference at the 99 percentile of both specs imo

[grizzled jay]

Yeah you're right

[primal gazelle]

the average sin rogue isnt gonna have bis traits and high crit

which is required to compete with outlaw, meanwhile outlaw can just use whatever trait and do good damage

[grizzled jay]

That's a good point

Sin needs quite a bit of trait min maxing

Got a bit lucky with traits so I'm good there. Dunno if 40crit with 6 stack vigor is enough

[strange python]

Just want to say that I switched to [Blindside] and [Vigor] and my dps went wayyy up as a lvl 78 used to have elaborate planning and marked for death

[rustic ether]

@strange python buddy at level 78 there isnt a single guide that would be for you

the scaling is literally an entirely different game

like, you can honestly play whatever talents feel best at that level becaus god knows theres no reason to sim at that level

[bleak spoke]

yeh most people ain't ever seen a good sin rogue

usually when i pug with sin i get a decent amount of confusion

and i'm not even good, just passable xd

[rustic ether]

its honestly such a good feeling beating an outlaw rogue in the group

[bleak spoke]

for real

and then it goes away when some pms you "imagine if you were playing outlaw" after that shit

and it's like BOI

wrings hands

[grizzled jay]

Strategy and coordination I think comes before sin vs outlaw arguments

That's why it's strange to me to get asked on a 16 17 about outlaw

[bleak spoke]

yeh with less coordination outlaw is easier tbh

cuz of the vanish resets, and gouge

[grizzled jay]

Man pushing keys on alliance is such a drag even as a sought-after class

[steep obsidian]

i havent even played outlaw much

half the keys i do we dont even pull big so it seems kinda pointless

and i can do ok with eb if i want to

[real bay]

Pushing anything as alliance

[grizzled jay]

I know lul

[rustic ether]

being a rogue but not being night elf masterrace

[vast forum]

Night elf useless as outlul tho

And outlul is the meta

[grizzled jay]

Bald male gnome with slutmog and playing Sin. Just so you get asked even more questions

[strange python]

OOF, 400 loaded dice pog

[grizzled jay]

Gratz

[real bay]

alt rogue got 420 ivus trinket, not that bad I guess

he dinged a few days ago

[strange python]

LOL

[drifting cloud]

my warr had 2 395 items in uldir while being at 290 ilvl itself, just from doing the wb while doing my darkshore mount run

meanwhile my main that was 8/8M for 2months didnt have a single item higher than 385 😂

[strange python]

speaking of, just got ivus trink lmao

[grizzled jay]

I've yet to get anything from arathi boss and darkshore one. I even bonus rolled arathi one at one point

[strange python]

i only rolled on ivus in hopes of getting trinket to replace a 271

🤷

[buoyant coyote]

[charred wedge]

If I link my raidbot for my rogue can u guys tell me which azerite shoulders all that... pretty much dress my char up. I have been wracking my brains for the weekend trying to figure it out

[strange python]

master assassin vs sub; is that sim based? or talent based

[charred wedge]

I’m thinking I found what I wanted.... I do want u guys to look at it though and give me ur opinions

[bleak spoke]

Just link it

No cover letter needed friend

[charred wedge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5vRFpuN5yNY9vh1ZDFA9Vr

Sorry lol didn’t want to just assume u guys would ty!:)

I’m really messing up with aoe so I was hoping to keep echoing knives

[thorn tartan]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/36253397 what have i done wrong on jadefire? Playing double dose? On grong i carried orb So maybe thats it but I got no idea about jf

[strange python]

yo whens the current TW event end? tuesday?

[vast forum]

Orb on grong doesn't reduce dps

Maybe just a little bit cuz your aa pauses while casting it

[hallow sage]

@thorn tartan at a quick glance, low uptime on bleeds (50% ish is pretty scuffy), using a lot of FoKs when you have triple DD is a bad idea, use it spread/maintain poisons on adds, tho tbh it's unlikely if that'll even be a DPS increase given their short lives. also i'd use sub over MA for this boss, higher DPS increase due to 2 garrotes (most MA vs Sub debates are ST and come down to a .5% increase for MA), you also seem to not be doing much cross dotting on jadefire at all, which you're giving up free DPS and free energy

[grizzled jay]

Sub vs MA for me personally gives me like a 250 dps increase on pure St which is like 1% increase.

[hallow sage]

same, diavolo

6/9 bosses are basically ST tho

[grizzled jay]

Yeah. I just hate it when it doesn't double envenoms crit

Seems like a waste

[vestal wren]

what fights are not st?

[hallow sage]

also @thorn tartan this is less of a dig at you, but how in the fuck does a guild manage to kill the monk and still have mage at 50% life? esp with 3 rogues

@vestal wren champs isn't really, jadefire is a cleave fight and rasta is an opening of a cleave fight, along with a second bout of it

[vestal wren]

yes i would argue jade and rasta only, but only jade rly benefits from the mt

[marble elm]

jade is the only fight with a decent argument for playing multi target talents/traits

and even then ma is just as good on it

[hallow sage]

@vestal wren depends on guild for champs i guess, and yeah it's mainly pad damage getting an extra couple of garrotes out early, but if you're looking for a decent parse i feel like it'll outvalue MA

sub vs MA that is

[vestal wren]

champs is a joke of a fight XD

[hallow sage]

you're not wrong

[marble elm]

playing ss sub to garrote the adds on champs is straight padding

not that its a relevant fight anyway

[vestal wren]

in fact even jadefire is tuned very easy and can be easy done without strong mt classes

grong is harder then jadefire

[hallow sage]

the question was what fights are not entirely ST, and the adds DO need to die at some point.

and there's enough of them to benefit from sub

[strange python]

id say opulence

[marble elm]

the adds need to die but you shouldn't spec for killing adds

[golden relic]

rogue add killer for champs

clap

[vestal wren]

you usually only play p1 on opulance

[hallow sage]

the difference between personal DPS of MA and sub is very slim to begin with

[golden relic]

depends on your gear

sub is 1k dps loss for me even when playing a chest with SS+ TTK vs a chest with DD + TTK

[hallow sage]

true, but for most people that are simming with MA being superior, it's still within a very small margin

[vestal wren]

what i mean with play is that p1 is the hard part if you manage it well p2 is a joke, the boss dies from opal stacks

[hallow sage]

no idea how you're managing that, dog

i've got triple DD, 1 TTK and an NP and still sitting at a 200 dps loss

[golden relic]

Becuz there is most to take into consideration on azerite then first 2 traits

like having x3 OP

[hallow sage]

i also have triple OP

[thorn tartan]

@hallow sage thanks for your Response i will try to improve on These points. And we just said funnel down Monk asap so we did it

[hallow sage]

eh, fair enough. 50% just seems extremely high

for it to be at still by the time monk is dead

[thorn tartan]

Maybe many did not spread enough like i did

[golden relic]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4RHo321orqDCNwmcqM1Yq3

or well not 1k less, but close

But im guessing for my part, the gem slots play a big role cause my crit is relatively high

But ive hardly ran any boss with SS + Sub, i did it on rastkhan once , havent on jade, always forgotten

[strange python]

i see a difference of 120

not close to 1k

[golden relic]

We were talking about SS+ subterfuge

[hallow sage]

nah i was talking about just sub

[golden relic]

its 120 without even using a SS chest

[hallow sage]

not SS+ sub

[strange python]

ah then yes

Something I don't get. I have never simmed higher with anything that haste enchant and haste gem. But I see alot of people go for Crit or Mastery. Am I missing something or do we just have completely different gear? Think is. Looking at your gear for example we have almost the same. I don't get it

[golden relic]

haste mastery and crit are all within a small margin for me, so it hardly matters what i gem

or encht

i just prefer crit in the case

cuz of the extra cps + for running master assassin it helps

maybe you lack haste

like if its telling u haste is most beneficial by aot

alot

[strange python]

I have 22%

With raid gear on

[golden relic]

what traits do u have

that counting in the 3rd ring aswell, not only the first 2

[strange python]

I am at work "working" so can't link.
But something like
2xDD
2xTC
1xNP
1xTTK
1xOP
2xGut

1st boss head. 2nd boss shoulders and a M+ (bad rng) chest with TTK and NP

[golden relic]

TTK isnt as bad as ppl put it out to be

[strange python]

I know. I want TTK. I just want 3xDD and a TTK

[golden relic]

but ye idk, also ppl underestimate how good x3 OP is

ppl focus solely on the first 2 rings

[strange python]

True. But luck has not been on my side

[golden relic]

OP is super good compared to having like a heed

and ppl will still not understand why a TTK + DD chest sims better then a DD + NP chest

[strange python]

Maybe it is since you have the OP you don't sim as high with Haste. I dunno mate

I want that chest you have. It is so strong

[hallow sage]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/exoqgxseKLoh1EQwhsL4zA

haste still ahead by a reasonable gap

with triple OP

[strange python]

is it worth getting the engi helmet if you have the 415 from champions?

ive seen many rogues use it

[hallow sage]

are you only getting NP from your champs helm?

[pastel vault]

engi helm is better in pvp but in general champions helm will be better for NP trait

[strange python]

well i have the mats to craft the engi helmet and i was wondering if it would be worth having 2 415 azerite pieces

in the head slot to play around with

[golden relic]

Champs helm is better

Ppl using engi are prob unlucky, like myself to not see it drop

Blockade head works aswell

[strange python]

yeah i got lucky on my monk got the 415 helm from champions on first try, not so lucky on my rogue

hoping ill get it on tuesday xD

To get Blockade head you need to get to that boss first ;) haha #stuckonmekka

[pastel vault]

what do I reroll chalk for on tues? 🤔

[strange python]

Like the fuck? How can.people have both Gorak and Ceph? :( i guess I have to save up 7000 titan residium

[golden relic]

shoulders with SS+ DD so u can pad on champions

Clap

[loud pilot]

how is the vanish with master assasin, vanish toxic blade spam envenom?

[pastel vault]

true and rastakhan

[golden relic]

speaking of earlier about haste

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dfHm9BLwyTSsKbjU6W75Fz

i usually just sim swapping gems and not stat weights

but even there

crit lower cuz of the gem slots i have already surpassingly

[grizzled jay]

When I sim crit vs haste gems I get like 250 more dps from haste

Even with MA

[golden relic]

its left from playing outlaw where it was a tiny bit better

• i had the gem in my bag lol

[vast forum]

Yeap, can't have that

[golden relic]

a whopping 28 dps increase swapping ring enchts to haste

but nothing else

pogchamp

[full pagoda]

Guys, can you help me? I've been following the basics of getting haste>crit>mastery for raids and crit>mastery for M+. So I've made a sim for my ST patchwork but I just don't get what stats to get and I'll benefit more. As I'm always gemming haste.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8hLXJH596adAX6w5FR6TK8

I just don't understand the stats it shows on the dim

Sim*, don't get it

[golden relic]

means u need more mastery

or it wants you to get more

[grizzled jay]

Try and sim gem replacements + enchants

[full pagoda]

How do you understand it? The higher % a stat is from the sim?

[golden relic]

the stat that is the highest on the list is the one the apl wants you to get more of

so wep dmg is first

which is obvs

then mastery

then haste

but ye sim gem/encht replacement instead

to see the best combo u have with current gear

1 piece can change the prio by alot , especially if its rings n items with alot of stats like legs or even a gem slot

[full pagoda]

The % of haste/crit/mastery has to be so-so equal at this point?

I'm also using an agil gem, need to sim it but since everyone says it's worse than secondary stat, maybe gotta change it too

[topaz vine]

This is a dumb question, but I'm a little confused about the ss thing.. Do we still use it or not?
My sim is telling me not to use it.. I haven't used it for ages now xD

[vast forum]

Ss is still good but not your best choice unless you are a night elf

[strange python]

hi, mates for Grong, rogue is a good choices for use Apetagonizer Core on boss or some class/spec are better?

[topaz vine]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kMDE51utEUHANG46Km97DU

Feel like i sim low compared to other ppl here.. that's why i was wondering. i know i could have better traits but still

[solid nova]

Trait's arent bad but sure theres better combos
Haste gem will give you a tiny bit more ST > the crit
Neck Ilvl
More socket RNG

Big sims usually have a fair few sockets too

[topaz vine]

Yeah. oh well .. being lucky with drops isn't really my thing xD
But i'm glad to hear that I dont really need ss.. or that its fine as it is. 😃

[solid nova]

Well SS on a Patchwork sim will only hold a certain value, which is going to be a fair chunk more as soon as second target is introduced

Which is the limitation from looking at a ST sim and not applying it to the raid

[scenic quail]

is there an easy way to filter your logs to see how many envenoms you are getting in during TB window on avg?

[ruby oxide]

@strange python in heroic it doesn't matter who picks up the core. In mythic, I pick up the first core, because you never carry it for longer than a few seconds anyway and I can just roll Crimson Vial and feint or cloak the tantrum. We have a DH pick up the second core because of their mobility and leech. I know different guilds do it differently, but I like melee having both cores because there's little risk of a melee taking extra ticks of damage from reverberating slam, whereas a ranged has a possibility of taking 2+ ticks of extra damage if they are direct-hit with the missle.

[strange python]

ty mate

[hardy mulch]

u dont need an agility gem in assa spec?

[royal lantern]

agility is the lowest simming stat for most people here

[grizzled jay]

Getting close to off hand dps for me

[strange python]

Correct stats and Gems are morr important now. I have 415 ilvl in bags but my top sim ilvl is 404. Looks bad but does damage ;) rip on loot

[cobalt gyro]

but ilevel over everything

pog

[waxen blaze]

How is Master Assassin comapred to SF in M+ with echoing blades?

[rose perch]

If you have no shrouded traits then MA might be better but if you have no shrouded traits you should get some shrouded traits!

[spice surge]

Eventually you will all give in to the power of MA and give up this puny shrouded trait

[onyx wind]

@strange python Its been like that since launch, no?

[quick ice]

agi was higher value than secondaries at launch, so sockets are more valuable than they were?

[coral sparrow]

hi guys, got a question about Shrouded Suffocation, is it me or this trait is overrated now against Double dose?

[quick ice]

its good on multi-target

ST double dose is god

[coral sparrow]

according to raidbot, even on hectic 3dd is better than 2dd+1ss

[spice surge]

Shrouded is a bottom/mid-tier trait for ST but toptier for cleave

hectic isnt cleave

Hectic is aboss with sometime a pack of 4 spawning in

[torpid current]

should we stack echoing blades ? or is one enough ?

[coral sparrow]

yh nvm..

1echo is enough

[spice surge]

All of the damage from echo stacks

IE if you want more aoe its better to have more echoing

[torpid current]

asking for m+... can get 3 echos and 2 shrouded

[quick ice]

that sounds good

what's the 6th?

[torpid current]

could be scent of blood or incite the pack

[quick ice]

scent is nice

[full pagoda]

Scent

Damn, I'm ao jealous, I don't have those

[torpid current]

but damn.. these are just 370... all other items are 400+ ^^

this is lame

[full pagoda]

Oh xD

[torpid current]

just 1 week alt 😛

[full pagoda]

Cool

[torpid current]

soooo... then i think we play with crimson tempest ? or not ?

[quick ice]

!ct

[prisma monolith]

There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.

[torpid current]

aaahhh

so screw TB...

i understand ^^

[vast forum]

Tb is good with proper traits

[full pagoda]

With you having 3EB and and 2Ss even hidden blades would be nice

[coral sparrow]

with 1Nothing Personal is it better on cycle to go Vendetta>TB or TB>Vendetta?

[quick ice]

don't vendetta during TB, wastes a GCD of your already short CD

I believe

[full pagoda]

@coral sparrow I don't think the trait matters, it's always vendetta -> TB

[torpid current]

trying hidden blades on dummies 😄

[coral sparrow]

ok

thx

[onyx wind]

Most of the time u dont have energy to use every global anyway

So it doesnt really matter if you just use it in TB window correctly

[strange python]

I am using 2xSS 2xEB 2xTTK

[quick ice]

that's a nice setup!

[coral sparrow]

Can you explain me why Nothing Personal on hero dmg is like the highest trait on patchwerk, and raidbot still told me to use treacher covenant instead of NP?!

[steady grotto]

can you link the sim?

[coral sparrow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qYZ7JvPjY8fWxA9mJ3hrqh

[torpid current]

3 echos and 2 shrouded or 2 echos 3 shrouded + 1 double dose ? 🤔

[steady grotto]

it loses value after the first one

the energy regen doesn't stack

so you only really want one

nice setup though damn that's a good sim

[coral sparrow]

thx

[full pagoda]

@torpid current 3EB 2SS and 1 Scen t, since you'll use this only for m+ when needing a lot of aoe

1 dd doesn't make sence into it tbh

[torpid current]

okay... cheers buddy

[strange python]

415 SS TTK from opulence
415 SS EB from Conclave
400 TTK EB from Rasta.

It feels super smooth in m+

[torpid current]

oh i see i have 3 heat my calls too... hmm

[full pagoda]

1 dd can work out okish with 2 ss for boss fights with subterfuge and exsang.

[torpid current]

playing subterfuge... or should i play with 3 EB 2 SS and Scen t with master assasin ?

[cloud iris]

For opulence mythic would u guys play 415 SS + fckin metichulous scheming
Or 400 scent + twist ?

Other traits are DD NP and covenant

[spice surge]

DD+NP

Opulence is basicly ST

[golden relic]

just sim for ST and take that, theres ups and downs with both of those combos, opulence is st most of the time anyway

[spice surge]

Assuming same ilvl, but yeah simming is the best option

[golden relic]

u could say scent would benefit for p1 with port and TTK for fok spam into envenoms, but no 1 can tell u straight off

[cloud iris]

No but i mean my head and chest have DD NP and covenant, but my shoulders i need to choose between SS and scheming and Scent + twist

Scheming shoulders are simming higher but it feels so bad

Fck this trait

[golden relic]

well its becus scent is useless in a scenario like that

wont get enough value from rupturing adds either

• you would hardly do that

[lament dove]

I'm using a 390 shoulder with TTK+NP over my 415 meticulous shoulders, because the latter never procs... when I tried it procced 3 times over 3 bosses (2x on Grong and once on Jadefire, but I couldn't use that since it procced just before we teleported up)
good luck with it...

[bleak spoke]

What’s the assa trait on the ring with meticulous?

There’s a meticulous weakaura but just the nature of it makes it excessively annoying to press because we don’t have enough buttons

Like you have the option of overwriting a garrote, overwriting a rupture or holding you can tb

Hoping*

I guess you can throw a knife

Actually that’s not so terrible

Mutilate throw a knife then envenom

Lol

[wind shore]

Procing it isn't the bad part

The proc rate is just terrible

Also the trait i believe is the FoK one

[bleak spoke]

Yeh it’s pretty bad, I had it as a warlock last tier

[ruby oxide]

Anyone got some insight on vendetta use for Mythic Grong? It seems like it's bad on the opener because adds spawn before the duration runs out, and it's not necessarily good on the adds since they die fairly quickly if the raid is playing on point. If you use the CD on Opener you can use at 0:00, 2:00, 4:00. If you use after the first add set dies you can use at 1:00, 3:00, and 5:00 and time with lust at 3m. Thoughts? Input?

[bleak spoke]

You vendetta and when the adds spawn you rupture the boss mutilate it and let the garrote ride

[wind shore]

1st add is generally ranged problem

[spice surge]

Dont use lust at 3m

Use it at 4m

[bleak spoke]

Then you go adds

And then when you come back rupture should be coming off cd on the boss

[spice surge]

The only thing lusting at 3m does is fuck over people with 2m/4m cds, whereas using it at 4min nobody loses out on anything

[bleak spoke]

Unless your guild makes you sit on the second add cuz your rdps can’t interrupt I’m so fucking mad about that you don’t even know

[spice surge]

Since ranged wont get another cast of their 3 min cds anyway

Might aswell hold it for 1 min to gain dps

[wind shore]

Ultimately you can just skip grong

Useless loot table

[spice surge]

He drops the only belt

[ruby oxide]

4m lust just feels kinda bad since the adds spawn like 10s after. But that's when we lusted

[spice surge]

from the raid, but yeah

[bleak spoke]

Tfw you can’t sit cuz you don’t have the roster to sit FeelsBadMan 🔫

[ruby oxide]

For interrupts, we didn't have enough range and of those ranged 2 Spriests and 2 Boomkins with super long interrupt timers. We had to run a triple melee interrupt group on second add. Covers 100% of the kicks and allows one of them to get tank tossed without risking fear on the remaining mele

[bleak spoke]

Yeh we lust on third set of adds too

[wind shore]

Id say its a feeldbasman cuz you rerolled off warlock

[bleak spoke]

Wow

You sound like my guild :^)

[worldly iron]

casters are clunky goobers

unless you're like, a fire mage

(in my opinion)

[bleak spoke]

Yeh rogue feels much smoother

Even without the 2k haste from flashpoint or implosion

[wind shore]

I dont mean in terms of gameplay

But in raid design

Some bosses force max 4 melee

And that sometimes is hard

[bleak spoke]

You right tho, rdps is much less cancer inducing than having melee

[worldly iron]

bfa raid life

fuken melee

can't catch a break

[bleak spoke]

Though honestly this tier is it really like that

Other than rasta

[worldly iron]

just started progressing on rasty mytffic yesterday

the fire is yuck

[wind shore]

Rasta just cloak lul

[worldly iron]

super tight with 8 yard ring

[bleak spoke]

Yeah it’s so fast it reminds me of fetid lmao

[wind shore]

But tbh you dont need dps on rasta 2nd phase

[worldly iron]

I skedaddle outta there real quick, but it's still hard to find a safe spot with my guildies

[wind shore]

But last phase its hard to dodge and with fires

[bleak spoke]

But other than rasta and maybe stormwall

Like mekka and jaina you want to stack in melee or close innit

[wind shore]

Jaina if you want to do wall strat

You want mostly ranged

[bleak spoke]

Fair

[spice surge]

You still need 5/6 melees

on jaina

[bleak spoke]

Eleem you’re on jaina right now right?

[spice surge]

Yep, still turning into 🍨 in intermission though, not getting very far

[bleak spoke]

Ahh

Is it as bad as it looks haha

[spice surge]

p2 is fine

p1 is just random as hell

So every fourth try you just wipe because you had every mechanic at the same time

And then the pull after its ezpz

[bleak spoke]

Sounds really frustrating

What spec are you playing on it

[spice surge]

Assa obv

[worldly iron]

4 Champions kills (all bonus rolls), 3 Jadefire kills (also all bonus rolls), 3 Grong kills (1 bonus roll) and a single kill on both Opulence and Conclave and I've yet to recieve an azerite piece from drops The two 415 pieces I have are bought and both are only decent for m+

curse the rng

[dark crag]

All you need is one week of luck, got both 415 raid pieces, plumage and dice

[worldly iron]

nice

I ran three freeholds back to back yesterday, same group. last key, the warlock switched to their rogue and got a 405 dice

[dark crag]

And i didn't drop one of that myself

[worldly iron]

the 385 dice I have was given to me by a guildie

never dropped for me

[lone junco]

Got mine with avoidance and a socket from M+ box like week 3. havent seen it since.

[worldly iron]

and I got it during the end of Uldir so we were basically already done

[lone junco]

GCB week 1 box was my best luck possible tbh.

[idle vigil]

@ruby oxide parsed 98 this week on grong. I vendettad boss after initial bleed opener and then saved vendetta for adds after that

Make sure you save vanish and if your playing properly you can triple bleed quite easily with 3x empowered garrotes every add cycle

[lament dove]

my old 385 dice came from a +9 in season one I think, now I got it from weekly chest, at least I'm lucky with this one piece of gear lol

[severe yoke]

hey i have a question on my trinkest idk wich combo i should take i know galecaller is BIS but idk if one of the other combos when u have to move alot . sometime can only stand for 5 sec in the rune so i missing alot dps

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4VK2v4kAcx7XHJ3d8pVjBq

[idle vigil]

Almost every raid fight is friendly towards gale caller

You might not be able to use it on cd but definitely still worth running

[hardy mulch]

!help

[charred wedge]

I’m running raidbot real quick and I’ll link it. Tried at midnight but didn’t get much feedback. I am horrible at aoe right now . From what I’m reading from u guys if I do one double dose and the echoing blades I can spam fan of knives? I’m started my heroic content tues and since I have 3 shoulders was thinking I can have one set as single target and one as aoe? Please help! I’ll link in a sec:)

[hardy mulch]

whats the best/preferred way of ST openings?

[solid nova]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[solid nova]

List of traits/talent setups for openers are there

[charred wedge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wGzqoDoVyxgSkdsqX6NFTp

K:) don’t know if u guys can see all the shoulders but was thinking of doing the gold tassle ones for aoe in mythics

And doing 3 dd for heroic content

[cloud iris]

Anyone has a meticulous scheming WA ?

[ruby oxide]

@idle vigil thank you. I’ll consider working SS into my grong loadout

[wary ice]

https://wago.io/search/meticulous+scheming @cloud iris

I dont personally use MS but there are a couple up on wago

[cloud iris]

Cheers!

[charred wedge]

Hi hi!

Gotta get ready for work but I’ll check in later if anyone responded. On my azerite, thank u!:)

[bitter stag]

Is there a good YouTuber or video that really goes in depth on the rotation and what to do? DPS feels like it’s been lacking a lot lately

[idle ember]

Dratnos is great imo.

[wary ice]

I'm a big dratnos fan

He covers the why really compactly which i think is sicko

[rose perch]

dratnos sucks tbh

[wary ice]

Like I understand why im doing things during specific parts of the rotation

[winter gale]

Guys can u tell me what is a good trait setup for m+?

I have alot of options atm in my bags but dunno what is good to wear

[spice sorrel]

For the elemental skip in shrine, do you need to cloak at any point before vanishing? Gonna try it out today

[rose perch]

@spice sorrel so the elemental will cast electrifying shock on you and you'll need cloak to survive that OR you can line it and then once it finishes the cast but fails to cast you come back into line, it tries again, and it tries one or two more times and then it casts shipbreaker storm at which point you sprint and feint and don't need cloak to get through

[spice sorrel]

Okay, I never really paid attention to whether it melees or casts. If you LoS it, it won't run to try to cast on you? You need to hop in and out of LoS?

[rose perch]

so it starts its cast when you're in LOS

and then it will finish its cast but fail if you're out of LOS at the end

So yeah you kinda dance in and out of LOS until it does a storm and then you run through

or you just have cloak up and it's ezpz

[winter gale]

How to sim for m+?

[spice sorrel]

Gotcha, thanks!

[winter gale]

Patchwerk, no buffs, 5 targets, 40 sec?

[spice sorrel]

Oh and I assume you vanish once you've run through right?

[rose perch]

Yeah!

once you're far enough away that it won't detect you immediately after

[spice sorrel]

Sweet, thanks man

[winter gale]

Should I play 2xSS 2xEB or 3xSS 1xEB?

Anyone?

[thin patio]

i'd pref 3SS

[winter gale]

Thats how I play atm

[strange python]

id say take one scent of blood

if you can

[winter gale]

Have one

And one NP

Can maybe change NP for Convenant

Covenant*

[strange python]

id say keep NP instead of TC but you gotta sim whats better for you

[wary ice]

For the non-ST raid fights is running a stack of EB worth while?

[winter gale]

So currently I am 3xSS 1xEB 1xSoB 1xNP

@strange python how do u sim for m+? Patchwerk, no buffs, 5 targets, 40 sec?

[lament dove]

TC is better for m+ than NP imho,

there is a "dungeon slice" sim for m+

[winter gale]

Where to copy it?

[strange python]

personally i use 1DD, 1NP, 1EB, 1 TTK, 1SS, 1SoB

since i dont really have good azerite pieces

i still pull over 20k overall in dungeons

[lament dove]

open simulation options, select fight style

anyplace

[strange python]

and on boss fights i usually do 20-25k in m+

since fights dont last as long

I use 2xSS 2xEB 2xTTK. It is super smooth in M+. Nice mix of ST, Burst AoE, Cleave and Priodamage

do you use exsang?

Yes

[winter gale]

@lament dove @strange python Thanks guys ! ❤

[strange python]

@winter gale np)

[obsidian ridge]

does anyone here have triple SS triple EB on their azerite pieces for m+ and can tell me whether or not you're able to keep up with outlaw rogues in aoe damage? I don't want to waste 1725 titan residuum hoping to get the SS/EB headpiece if outlaw is better anyway

[scarlet sequoia]

outlaw is better

[strange python]

Reread, so deleted my comment. Still tho. Better at what? AoE brust on Reaping? or like in General AoE? I dunno if I have only played with bad Outlaw rogues But I have higher Pack damage than the outlaw I have played with

[mint peak]

Then you've only played with bad Outlaw tbh. Also if you run 3xSS and 3xEB the Outlaw will likely do more boss damage since half of your traits are useless there

[strange python]

I am not running 3xSS 3xEB. I have 2xSS, 2xEB, 2xTTK. And I guess then yeah, they were bad. They are still 1.9k this season so I dunno. maybe outlaw is just too easy 😮

[mint peak]

Not saying you are, aDDi asked if anyone is running 3xSS and 3xEB

[spice surge]

You're not gonna outdps outlaw on overall damage

Doubt any spec can

But that doesnt mean that outlaw is always better

[mint peak]

Exactly right but if you're using all Azerite in hopes to out AoE an Outlaw you're just gimping the better aspect of your spec to fight a losing battle

[spice surge]

Assa is prob gonna be better and better anyway

Since outlaw has essentially 0 scaling besides azerite and weapon dps

[bronze belfry]

Just started leveling my rogue up and assassination seems to be the most enjoyable so far.

[primal gazelle]

i enjoy playing sin because i like to shame outlaw rogues when i beat them in overall dmg 🤔

[strange python]

@primal gazelle are you talking about m+ or raid?

[primal gazelle]

m+

[strange python]

kinda hard to believe tbh

[primal gazelle]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ArkjM2nHqbZ7Fvdg#fight=30&type=damage-done

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ArkjM2nHqbZ7Fvdg#fight=44&type=damage-done

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ArkjM2nHqbZ7Fvdg#fight=last&type=damage-done

[bleak spoke]

that's some wreckage

also 100 parse

[primal gazelle]

beat both of these outlaw rogues in a 15-18 atal/waycrest/siege

they both outgear me significantly too

only outlaw rogue ive lost to is @round harbor but that was first week of s2 and we both had old azerites on

[bleak spoke]

wait you have more sockets than god himself

WHAT THE FUCK

that's 40% crit without the spyglass or oscillator running

right?

[primal gazelle]

yup

[bleak spoke]

man it must be hella confusing when you get that glitch where fok only giives the 1 cp LOL

[primal gazelle]

never experienced it lol

[bleak spoke]

really?

like never just fok'd and 1 cp

until you used another ability

even on a reaping pack

cuz that's when it happens usually

[primal gazelle]

didnt notice 🤷

[bleak spoke]

fair enough

[mint peak]

Sorry but doing 21k DPS as Outlaw in AD is just bad. Either the tank is pulling small or the dude forgot to press Blade Flurry half the time

[primal gazelle]

log dps is calculated different than details dps

log dps = total dmg done / total time in dungeon including out of combat time

details = combat only dps

so 21k logs could be 30k overall in details

[bleak spoke]

details doesn't show downtime right

yeee

[mint peak]

I know, and it's still a weak parse. His SS damage is so low and BF should be above 40% of his overall

[primal gazelle]

but hey

he's 2100 io

🤷

[north star]

in m+ how should i play in a pack of 3 mobs after i garrote all 3 coming from stealth, should i fan of knives (i have EB) or mutilate?

[civic forge]

dude i'm down to run some keys with you so i can see how you do the build. i want to learn the assassin ways but i just felt it was way to slow to ramp up to the good damage

[bleak spoke]

fok on 2+ targets

[civic forge]

im a 1860 scrub if it helps

[bleak spoke]

with eb

[north star]

so garrote 3 CT FoK for cp gen + rupture?

[bleak spoke]

wait @primal gazelle you're playing hidden blades right

there's no pbomb dmg

[primal gazelle]

ya

i like to be a hipster

[bleak spoke]

huh, seli said it could be an option when i asked but i thought he was trolling me

i guess it is

[mint peak]

Does he have no Wits trait in this run?

He doesn't gain the buff once lol

[bleak spoke]

dude i swear HB is better than PB on st

like even with 2 pulling a tyrannical rezan it was 4.8% of my dmg in fok

with no raptor spawns

[primal gazelle]

nico wasnt using wits, lootinrogue was though

realistically tho id lose to lootinrogue bc i potted 15 times that dungeon and he potted once lol

[mint peak]

I mean not using by far the best trait for M+ for your spec seems like a mistake

[bleak spoke]

not having traits is a mistake monkaS

though tbf i'd use a 370 wits over not having one

[mint peak]

He has the helm, can just use Wits instead of a third DS

[lament dove]

in the meantime in my "crit gear" i have 25% crit lol

[bleak spoke]

err 2 EB i mean, up there

the HB setup is probably sicknasty with 3

[lament dove]

so it applies to EB procs? those are not the initial FoK dmg...

[tribal mason]

is crimson tempest not worth anymore?

[primal gazelle]

EB increase dmg of fok

[lament dove]

ah true^^

totally forgot that:D

[bleak spoke]

ct is too slow now

iimo

[primal gazelle]

i hate using ct vs reaping

[bleak spoke]

yeh

you're so fkn starved

[primal gazelle]

literally does nothing

[bleak spoke]

all the time

[primal gazelle]

on the wm17 i did with that outlaw rogue, i didnt even bother ggg on reaping because they died so fast

literally wasnt worth the energy

[bleak spoke]

time for some fucking shenanigans https://i.imgur.com/jJEvrKd.png

[civic forge]

how often do you find yourself starved for energy on reaping? i know the rup sniping is what you do to get energy back but what's your average initial opening energy situation?

[bleak spoke]

if you garrote 2 big mobs out of stealth and rupture so you hve 3 bleeds out you don't starve the start

if they're dying too fast don't bother just rupture snipe for E

[civic forge]

on the dungeons i ran the build it just felt really slow to get to that perma energy point, but i probably did something wrong

[bleak spoke]

don't do the third garrote

you don't go perm energy you refund e

[primal gazelle]

try to make sure you enter reaping with full energy too

like 5 cp rupture the last add before reaping for full energy bar

otherwise you may enter reaping with 30 energy and you are completely fucked even if you get a restealth

[lucid basalt]

Does anybody know this garrote 1 garrote 2 garrote 3 rapture exan joke but the full version ?

[primal gazelle]

https://clips.twitch.tv/EnchantingLuckyBeefAMPEnergyCherry

this legendary clip

i should set it as my ringtone tbh

[strange python]

can anyone tell me the bis traits for m+, for raids, and for pvp

[spice surge]

Incase you are not aware, this clip is highly inaccurate and outdated, dont do this opener

[lucid basalt]

i foundddd

NaSteeZy:What you're gonna do, is as simple as you're gonna lepan40k one, lepan40k two, lepan40k three, rupture vendetta exsanguinate! yeah? then you're gonna fok fok, rupture again, you're gonna vanish, reapply lepan40k , especially on the target you don't have, and that's it, then you're gonna ct (crimson tempest). Look at my damage, right now, fucking lepan40k , it's fucking over dude. Oooh. How the fuck though LETS GO

[strange python]

can anyone tell me the bis traits for m+, for raids, and for pvp

[real bay]

Lmao

[civic forge]

idk about pvp, might be better to look at the guides in the #pvp pins. and then speaking pins, this channel's pins also have the herodamage website that explains the traits you might want. but it's still best to sim

[real bay]

Legendary

[strange python]

not best to sim

herodmg only roughly says traits not whats the best when you have all 6 perfect

[spice surge]

But it is best to sim? 🤔

[civic forge]

lol, then you sim to see what is good for you

[strange python]

well sure siming is best for my personal stuff

but I wanna know whats actually bis traits

[spice surge]

Herodamage does say what the best 6 are, as does the wowhead guide

[strange python]

not what are bis of which I have

[spice surge]

All of which are pinned

Guess the wowhead guide wasnt pinned, mb

[strange python]

so 3x ss 3x echoing?

for dungeons

[civic forge]

that's considered the ideal setup yes

[strange python]

someone once told me like 1 ss 3 echoing 1 twist and 1 other

[civic forge]

some might argue a SoB, but it's not an optimized build as of yet

[bleak spoke]

@primal gazelle walked into a random pug, they were pretty lowish io i guess, but this feels padtastic https://i.imgur.com/0ilB5E6.png

that being said, it's probably more than pbomb

[primal gazelle]

echo looking a bit low, only 2 eb im guessing?

[bleak spoke]

yeh

only 2

[strange python]

well I have 3ss 2 echo and 1 sob are those good traits for m+?`

[bleak spoke]

yes

i wish i had an sob over TC

but that's the setup above, 3 SS 2 EB 1 TC

FOK on all bosses were over 3%

so i'm assuming that's better than pbomb

[strange python]

wait

is that actually played?

thought thats some troll talent lol

[bleak spoke]

yeah i'm playing hidden blades exsang

[strange python]

not CT?

[bleak spoke]

CT was borderline in UR already

[primal gazelle]

shhh dont let too many people know of the secret bis talent

[bleak spoke]

even with bigly pulls

[modest badge]

for some reason i thought EB only proced first 5 crits of an encounter but i was going at it on a dummy and i guess its every cast cause EB % kept climbing

[strange python]

what talents are bis then now?

[spice surge]

The first 5 per cast

[strange python]

with 3ss 2 echo and 1 sob

[spice surge]

@modest badge

[bleak spoke]

if you have 3 EB i think definitely HB

but with 2 i'm still 50/50

this is a fortified week tho but i dont think that changes the last row

[strange python]

so you go 2213122? is that good?

[bleak spoke]

Dayvanie our lord and savior

[strange python]

or exsang instead of toxic

[primal gazelle]

LOL