you can
#assassination
raven mica
you want the TB to crit
plain thistle
you dont get 4 spells during MA
rustic ether
toxic blade used AFTER VANISH would put it inside that 2 seocnd window
honest vessel
yeah i understand that
rustic ether
3 second*
raven mica
I feel like its better to visualize the MA window as 3 GCDs
honest vessel
im resimming but i couldve sworn MA was active on the mut after the envenom on sims
raven mica
Yea I get pinged about it all the time because I see about
spice surge
The martyr's life
raven mica
20 questions per day about how "can you cheat death coin shower" or "can you evasion coin shower" or "can you feint coin shower"
And the answer to all of that is yes
honest vessel
i remembered wrong my bad
raven mica
but you're still gonna die
cobalt gyro
the best answer is honestly
try it yourself
like the first rogue to ever figure if it worked or not did
spice surge
Tbf theoretically it is possible to "solo" it if you get lay on hands
But its fiddly as hell and requires gemhide traits π
raven mica
LoH?
cobalt gyro
running specific traits to cheese a mechanic sounds like you should just idk
do the mechanics
spice surge
Stand in shit and procc your cheat death < 3 seconds before it hits, pop cloak and get LoH and feint. Should survive any of the first 3 showers if you have 2 gemhide traits
raven mica
the greediest class cant do anything to not die to a shower of greed
No matter the feeble attempts you try
spice surge
Imagine not speccing gemhide to begin with π
raven mica
imagine actually having gemhide on ur gear
Brews can stagger it doe 
No they actually cant
honest vessel
why is a MA toxic blade crit more valuable than a mut?
raven mica
TB is as much damage as a 3-4 CP envenom.
honest vessel
but isnt critting a mut up to 2 crits so it gets more value out of the crit chance?
cobalt gyro
it's still 50% crit chance
honest vessel
it's probably to nearly guarantee having at least 4 cp for the MA envenom
im overthinking it
visual quartz
but why not get 4-5cp tb then vanish, env mut env, 2 guaranteed 4-5cp env in the crit window with EP up. seems weird to not do it this way? O.o
spice surge
Theres basicly no difference between the two
raven mica
its dps neutral I think
spice surge
And besides, its not guaranteed
raven mica
I know dratnos does the env>mut>env combo
honest vessel
and we would have nightstalker ontop
pastel vault
seems weird to vanish TB in opener instead of waiting 1 or 2 sec to vanish spells that have higher DpET
bleak spoke
i imagine the avg dmg is the same but the vanish env muti env has higher peaks and lower lows
pastel vault
is there a way to tell sim to specifically do x y z in opener then use the existing rules after that
pastel vault
where can I get the current assa apl
lone junco
You stil. Tb vanish env mut (mut) env then?
pastel vault
gonna mess with it
lone junco
Run a quick sim and take it from the HTML output.
pastel vault
I mean the formatting is all wrong isnt it
lone junco
No you can paste direct.
spice surge
Go ahead dude, but there has been a lot of people trying to get anything out of it and none found anything
lone junco
I don't think smart sim has an HTML. So set to 100k.
robust cloak
hey guys, just after my opener in many a boss fight i'm almost always at a stage where toxic blade comes off CD and i have about 8 seconds left on rupture, am i better off keeping TB on cooldown and dumping for 8 seconds and possibly let rupture drop off, or am i better to refresh rupture and then pool an extra few seconds of energy before using TB again?
civic palm
I imagine with enough DD you don't want TB inside MA window.
pastel vault
that's why I wanna test myself
robust cloak
sorry, i'm not running MA
running ss/sub
my traits are 1x ss, 1x tc, 2x dd, 2x np
civic palm
WHO IS PINGIN ME?!?!
robust cloak
so i'm going garrote, rupture, garrote, vendetta, toxicblade, dump, muti til 4+ dump and repeat, end up refreshing rupture just after TB window finishes, dump until garrote falls off, vanish, envenom, mutilate, which generally leaves me to pool energy for a few seconds (my haste is pretty low)
at this point i've usually got 15-20 seconds of empowered garrote on, with 8~ seconds of rupture and TB off cooldown
vanish garrote envenom garrote* btw
am i better off using TB straight away and perhaps only getting 1 envenom in TB window and refresh rupture before it falls off?
mossy adder
Tb on cooldown
Regardless of what you press after it
Keeping dots up is more inpirtant than squeezing an envenom in but lettibg dots fall off π
robust cloak
awesome, thanks @mossy adder
i'll probably go toxic blade > rupture if i'm at pandemic window
then just get w/e into the TB window from there
mossy adder
It feels strange to do but means you will have more overall casts in the fight π just press tb on cd. You can pool energy before it to spam finishers during it as well
robust cloak
yeah i am generally good at pooling energy before TB, i just always find myself unsure of what the best option is in that particular scenario
mossy adder
Try get envenoms in but you never want to drop bleeds that is your highest priority above all!
royal forge
guys, still is necessary have 1 trait of shroud suffocation ? or if not have it will be a decrease of dmg?
robust cloak
@lone junco i don't think i'm going to have the energy regen for 3 finishers in that window unless i'm pooling for quite a while beforehand
am going to test on a dummy right now
mossy adder
Like usually i can only envenom once inside tb and rupture once is usually needed
But still, tb does high damage and generates a CP, envenom does high damage but costs 4+. Think of it that way and its easier to see why you always use it on cd π
robust cloak
during my opener when i'm full of energy with vendetta regen i can get 4 finishers in with lucky mutilates, but my 2nd cast of TB is always a little tighter
i like it @mossy adder going to test now π
mossy adder
Eg if you look at top rogue logs for any bosses in the raid youll ser them use tb on cooldown and use rupture inside that window as well, and they are the top rogues so i trust them!
robust cloak
yeah absolutely, makes a lot of sense, i think i'm a little guilty of getting too caught up in "dump envenom during TB window" which is probably not as important as i thought it may have been
does feel weird you're right :p but i'll consciously know it's better and i'll be fine in a boss fight or two, thanks @mossy adder !
vernal shadow
Is there a one size fits all sim for BOD? Patchwerk seems a bit too single target, but Cleave Add might not account for much π¦
mossy adder
No problem!
pastel vault
is the sim thinking if TB crits it gives double bonus to the poison dmg buff? from 30% -> 60%? I still cannot understand why giving tb more chance to crit is anywhere near as valuable as giving mut or envenom more chance to crit.
mut dpet is higher than tb and gives more CP, and envenom dpet is way higher
mossy adder
There is not a sim like that no. Its just about going with what you think is best. Eg for rastakhan i tend to play with shrouded for the adds, but fights like stormwall or whatever go full st
vernal shadow
@mossy adder Yeah makes sense, I only started question it when sim results are pushing me towards Master Assasin and I know its a massive DPS drop when adds are involved.
mossy adder
True. I personally play MA on oppulence, conclave , mekka, atormwall and jaina. Subt on eveything else as i think you can get some mileage out of SS
But to be fair i dont think playing MA on all fights is a big loss. Even top logs a lot of people are playing MA on bosses i would think are not suited for it
vernal shadow
Yeah man I'm noticing that as well, either way its only a .5-1% increase or decrease so it won't exactly make or break it
mystic wraith
!weakaura
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
royal forge
guys, in which situation it is better to use shrouded suffocation and subterfuge, and in which situation it is better to use master assassin
can someone explain me please π¦
lost sentinel
vernal shadow
^
@royal forge SIM FIRST. But if you want a general rule of thumb, Master Assassin is 'single target' and Subterfuge/SS is Cleave/Add fights. We literally spoke about it 3 comments above
austere scarab
Can you cloak coin shower?
there's a user named "rogues can't solo coin shower" gonna take that as fact
vernal shadow
You can feint it
austere scarab
In Mythic? o_o
royal forge
@vernal shadow thx u bro, glad for your answer!!
bleak spoke
Feint will reduce the damage but you still canβt solo it
I think itβs still enough to punch through cheat and kill you if you feint in mythic but not 100% sure
true viper
When the one pull you kill grong is the one when you do bad 
bleak spoke
relatable
weak oak
if all three of my azerite pieces are roughly equally good right now, which piece is the best to roll on?
drifting cloud
red zealot
takes 3 days for azerite reforge to decay right?
civic palm
24hrs now
haughty lily
are you supposed to refresh rup and garote if they are gonna run out during your tb window
therefore holding off on tb for a few seconds
civic palm
Don't hold, refresh Rupture during TB if you need to, refresh before if you're close to the pandemic window.
haughty lily
but then sometimes my tb will just be refreshing gar and rup>
i feel like its wasted i dont see how it could benefit
civic palm
DoTs dropping is worse.
tired thistle
So why is everything saying wee using Master assassin now instead of Subterfuge?
I think lies
civic palm
Ok.
tired thistle
Ahh ok so theres sort of a break point
And what makes it sim better certain traits or just overall stats
cobalt gyro
not really a breakpoint, a lot more to do with what traits you have access to
tired thistle
SO which make MA Better
lusty narwhal
If you have no SS you run MA, pretty simple
tired thistle
Should we stack SS again i have several pieces that give me SS or DD or NP
So now im not sure which to use
lusty narwhal
3x DD and at least 1x NP for optimal ST using MA I believe. Traits like TTK are pretty valuable too
cobalt gyro
ttk with DD traits is π
tired thistle
Ill respec and see what i got
shadow gyro
I'm running subterfuge and not getting empowered garrotes from stealth, at all.
NVM, I'm aware of the issue now
steep obsidian
theres a bug right now?
civic palm
No
rustic ether
constructing a fun raid night where everyone rotates their builds around (2133212) and try to do heroic
cant wait to hear the crying and screams
would it be too cruel to also make it so we rotate builds EVERY boss?
quick ice
That sounds fun
steep obsidian
i remember doing that a few times when shit was on farm
its funny when people have no idea how mechanics work because they only care about the part of it they have to deal with
bleak spoke
Man opulence is great the whole time everyoneβs praying they wonβt get swapped into some bullshit Iβm like ooo ooo swap me pls
worldly iron
love me some opulence
got him down on mythic yesterday, on the final pull of the night
feast boy accidentally put one up despite raid time being over, so we decided to go one more
worked out Β―_(γ)_/Β―
nimble tartan
grats π
worldly iron
thank
when I finally get some mythic loot, it's two pair of wrists and a ring I have no use for
(and can't trade because of ilvl)
full harbor
Assuming you dont cap energy wait on Elaborate planning before using next finisher right
full pagoda
Morning guys, I have another issue. Yesterday we did some Mythic reclear and I fucked up again. I saw guides/spells/phases and everything in Jadefire masters, yet I can't get used to the circle of the fight. I got horrible parses, can anyone tell me why (got just 80+% parses or so) not sure how to keep it up, maybe redot on all targets as much as possible? Any tips how to get used to the fight, I just cant get the feeling for it.
Also Grong, I've gottwn used to the fight pretty good, I was third dps and got 80, parses, the other rogue in my guild was first and got 96, what am I doing so wrong?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CpXkF2mBvcRjT7aZ#type=summary&view=timeline&boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2
wide bolt
He can multidot the adds with garrotes and you cant
probably a big difference
Yea he ran 3x SS vs your 3x DD
He can cleave better and you can ST better
thoretically speaking
full pagoda
@wide bolt you mean grong or jadefire fight?
wide bolt
grong
plain topaz
full pagoda
So it seems that DD build with TB is good only on fights where absolutely none aoe is needed? Wtf, kinda surprised tbh.
cunning spade
Where does First Mate's Spyglass drop from?
polar tapir
world quest
solid nova
WQs
cunning spade
Damn π¦
polar tapir
can't drop at higher base than 360 currently, so u need a massive titanforge π
cunning spade
Ty
rose perch
i think it usually drops from WQs in Tiragarde Sound
lament dove
the other day my guildmate had a 50 ilevel (to 410) + socket proc on a wq trinket, which is literally the same as the KR versa trinket
410 socketed blue trinket
pseudo finch
Sounds like a good game tbh
bleak spoke
when's socketed 425 PDC ;-;
polar tapir
one of my guildmates got KR trinket titanforged to 425 with leech from weekly chest. I got a pair of boots that was literally a dps upgrade of 4 DPS
felt bad man
summer marten
dont worry, you will like me get +40ilvl titanforge on some random WQ with 350ilvl reward and it will still not be good enough, but never from raid or m+
cosmic pier
welcome to titanforging, where the drops dont make sense and skill doesnt matter
summer marten
so far 3 times got huge titanforges, always on useless wq rewards
polar tapir
ye WF/TF is the worst mechanic they ever implemented
like there wasn't enough RNG in the game already
summer marten
you can never have enough RNG! like getting 1/6 terrible azerite chest(ruinous bolt)... both times you play the lottery
5/6 were good to great, but that one... had to get that one both times
polar tapir
Most RNG is fine, but wf/tf is so terrible because it skews the one element you were able to control for the majority of expansions: gear (which is basically also the most important element)
steep obsidian
@full pagoda if you havent figured out jadefire masters mutli side strike thing yet its always "blue, green, red, green, blue" in the colours of the adds that activate some people like to alt + z their ui off or use https://wago.io/SpecialOlympics which puts an arrow on your screen during it so you can see what way your toon is facing more easily.
its kinda embarassing when you go to a guild where everyone already killed it and you still have to figure it out coz once it clicks you will get it every time
vestal wren
wasnt it fixed order
full pagoda
@steep obsidian I have, and this is not the problem to me, even though I've got hitted twice by it. I was dead for 1,35% of the fight, got ressed but Idk, is it so punishable for the log? I know my uptimes are also stil shit but only 15 parses, so little...
Thanks for the WA, I'm gonna get it in any case 
steep obsidian
i think some peopel were delaying their vanish until after the first mst for a double dot there with the 25% damage buff from the strike
i guess it will depend on how long the boss lives as to whether that is optimum for you just look at cds and fight lengths of the high parses
i don't even have a good parse on taht fight myself coz i kinda suck but hope some of that helps
full pagoda
Yeah. I saw some logs with delaying but I don't think it's as good, not sure
The fight is ~ 5:15 mins for us
Thanks
bleak spoke
i found that delaying felt really good playing exsang cuz you can exsang a second time right before the tigers come out if you do that
but playing TB i just vanished into dots and then went to cloak the traps (i'm first cloak)
vast forum
My guild tried hero + cds after 1st multisided strike
Went pretty well
25% bonus + hero/bl + vanish tripple garrote
polar tapir
always used vanish straight away, since we lust on pull. u think it's worth delaying vanish until after strike, if u only get to use it twice due to fight length anyway?
vast forum
Aye i think so
I even think delaying vendetta could prove useful tbh, as they go behind the wall soon after it comes off cd if u use on pull
full pagoda
....
polar tapir
i usually get there real fast. pretty sure they do
full pagoda
I'm tilting tbh
vast forum
I think vanish vendetta after 1st multisided strike and then again after 1st multisided strike that happens after wall
full pagoda
Also it seems SS is a better choice or feels better to play in most bosses. TB just cuts off some things which lead into a bad parse and atm I'm tilting so much cos I really wanna fix my parses, see where I'm doimg super poor and switch guild.
Atm I'm using 3 dd, 1 TC, 1 NP and it feels meh...yes I got high burst but overall it doesn't feel decent for logs, maybe I do something totally wrong and I cant find it (except lower uptimes obv), but I did lower uptime on some other bosses tho and it wasn't so bad, so again I'm wondering is dying makes the log very punishable?
Also, @vast forum @bleak spoke @polar tapir what's your parse on jadefire (mythic)
spice surge
Yes, dying makes you do significantly less damage
full pagoda
Well, I died and I lost all buffs, except flask
That also prolly fucked me up, even though wowanalyser says I was dead for 1,35% of the fight
solid nova
For the duration you're dead you're contributing zero damage, nothing at all, it makes sense that you'll be heavily dented for that
full pagoda
Anybody good at math cos I'm on phone atm, 1,35% out of mins is how much, like 10-15 seconds?
bleak spoke
@full pagoda like 88 I think with multiple deaths and shit going wrong all around
Iβll improve it next week zzzz
Iβm always top of the chart everyone else has to do more for my parse to move probably
And I need to play galecallers better
It can be 95 without any changes all around I think
vast forum
I have 96 2 times
1st time i fully inted, used vendetta just before they ported away
2nd time i had a few small fuckups
@full pagoda
next gazelle
Hey... Could anyone help me a little bit? I think I have fairly good traits and ok stats but can't do any top logs DPS... What do you think I can improve? Yesterday I did normal with bleed build to try it out but I wasn't satisfied enough with it.
solid nova
Linking the logs is a solid start if you've got them handy mate
vast forum
Could you perhaps post the logs? Otherwise i can look into my magic ball and say it's 1 of the following:
Bleed uptime
Refreshing buffed bleeds
Wrong opener
next gazelle
I'm good enough with the refreshing I think... Maybe my rotation needs improvement
Opener I meant to say
spice surge
If you have one or more shrouded traits you must run subterfuge
Oh mb that was only a couple of fights you had MA for
But still
next gazelle
I can use up to 3... I usually use 3dd 2np 1ss with subt. Last time in hc I tried MA to see how it goes
spice surge
MA with SS is essentially throwing away one of your traits. I wouldnt suggest trying MA unless you have a set without SS
next gazelle
The one I use Sims better...
Well... I have a range of possibilities... Many pieces of 400ilvl and 3 415ilvl
frozen gorge
Hi, is the "Covenant uptime" influx on my sims if i haven't this trait ?
cobalt gyro
it won't apply if you're not running the trait on your sim
full pagoda
@vast forum @bleak spoke Well those parses sound like insane to me, can you check my logs whenever you have time? I've linked them above. More specifically for jadefire.
hasty snow
Hey there everyone! First time posting in here and looking for some help. Been playing Assassin rogue for about 2 weeks currently and I feel after reading the guide I have made decent improvements from week 1 to week 2. However, I am wondering what I can still improve on. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/38202648#
Be it gear/traits, rotation or whatever any and all help is appreciated!
vast forum
I only come here to see the tc details, and to talk to fellow rogues
bleak spoke
^usually a good explanation of why things are done in a certain way help me out the most
stuff like "you want to mutilate during envenom windows for DD" or "stand in the galecallers when you exsang" etc
general rules are that way cuz they're usually helpful
vast forum
I rarely need explaining, i mostly feelycraft my way to orange
spice surge
@hasty snow You have decent azerite pieces but you've chosen the wrong trais on them. Try going to raidbots.com and use their topgear feature to "sim yourself" and do simulations of which set would be the best
vast forum
But i need help with stuff like exsg snapshotting haste
Cuz i cba figuring that shit out myself
spice surge
Gameplay doesnt look too bad either, bleed uptimes could be higher and you're not using toxic blade enough, but still ok
full harbor
Worth Stacking echo blades for M+ over Shrouded Suffocation?
hasty snow
I will do that. I thought they were alright from what I have read in different places
full harbor
Just depends on pull size?
bleak spoke
always EB
spice surge
Well you're right, but your also wrong
Echoing blades is good for aoe lumpy
But literally useless for singletarget
hasty snow
yeah TB is certainly one I am struggling with currently. Syncing it up with stuff has been a pain and I alwayus feel like I am just wasting it
vast forum
Also cuz nelf
bleak spoke
alright lemme rephrase, at least one of SS and one of EB
beyond that it's in your hands
smoky fiber
You just hit tb on cd I donβt understand whatβs difficult about it
next gazelle
Actually with 2 secs remaining is the best
hasty snow
But surely you want to maximize the amount of envenoms you can get out of it?
bleak spoke
actually hit TB before it comes off cd
:^)
no joke though, regardless of energy or cp
vast forum
Bind tb to every spell so you never delay it by accident
bleak spoke
LOL
vast forum
300iq
hasty snow
strong plays!
next gazelle
Above 9 targets you should just spam tb if you already have garrote and rupture up
vast forum
Hahaha
real bay
thought you were supposed to use poisoned knife for aoe
bleak spoke
leaker
next gazelle
@real baysorry I forgot... U r correct
real bay
ninja style throwing knives
bleak spoke
ever just throw a poisoned knife at something cuz they refuse to be poisoned after like 5 abilities
next gazelle
Lol
vast forum
No, but i might start doing it for the memes
bleak spoke
that lady in freehold
vast forum
And post logs here asking for help
bleak spoke
one time my poison dropped off of her
and she jumped away to do the shots
so i just lugged a knife at her
hasty snow
So yeah i now see where the traits are wrong XD Thanks for point that out XD
bleak spoke
thats some hella bad rng though
when your poison actually just falls off
while you're hitting something
even if you're autoing another target >_>
smoky fiber
depends on traits and what you care about
bleak spoke
depends on the boss
dapper zodiac
most guys on warcraft logs have master assassin
that have the highest dps numbers on all bosses in bod
smoky fiber
yea but it depends on what you care about with raiding, seems like subt+SS is more for parses typically, master assassin feels best for prog personally
bleak spoke
for me subt ss feels better for killing important adds and MA for pure ST
bleak spoke
like i can't imagine playing MA on something like jadefire id want to die
dapper zodiac
yea i tried it on jadefire
dapper zodiac
with ma
bleak spoke
they make me sit on the add that ranged are suppose to kill/interrupt on grong
so it's in my best interest for it to die asap xd
when all the melee go back to the boss and then it's just me ;-;
quartz rune
We just kill both adds xD
bleak spoke
then tb comes up and i hve to use it on an apetagonizer π‘
full pagoda
@bleak spoke glad I read what you said, as I played TB DD on jadefire and yes, I wanna die, maybe its simple to come to conclusion but I wasn't sure when ss is better to use in raids and when DD/Tb build
smoky fiber
i mean tb/dd is completely fine on jadefire though
spice surge
I mean, jadefire is basicly the only boss where SS is truly useful
quartz rune
Its fine but its just worse than SS
bleak spoke
yeh it's fine but it looks really ugly to not see your dots on other shit
same with rasta imo
smoky fiber
its worse but i wouldn't retrait for 1 ss for a single fight earlier in the instance
dapper zodiac
and garrote if it comes off cd
smoky fiber
and MA is better for most of the other bosses imo
bleak spoke
yeh tht's true
not sure about opulence tho
i think opulence you can make a big argument for the vanish window
quartz rune
True but idk i just like SS Subt rbh
real bay
when you do make sure it's also poisoned or it's kinda pepega moment when you realise
quartz rune
Exsang? Rly?
smoky fiber
like why tho
bleak spoke
cuz it lines really nice with how we do golems
smoky fiber
the only time the vanish window would seem ok is during adds but its pretty irrelevant
smoky fiber
i mean getting ported is optimal for dps on opulence though
smoky fiber
i mean almost every pull as MA before we hit opulence itself
dapper zodiac
sorry to ask, whats TB?
quartz rune
U can play around that though
smoky fiber
i'm top 2 dmg so
spice surge
Dont use tb if youre about to get ported? π€
dapper zodiac
toxic blade?
bleak spoke
stop making sense eleem
quartz rune
TB= toxic blade
full pagoda
I agree withbRTB, was playing TB last night and it got ported out like that, when used
quartz rune
Just pay attention to timer
dapper zodiac
you can download a WA for it aswell
it plays the airhorn sound if youre about to get ported
or just download the BOD package
should be inside it
so most of you guys still play SS?
quartz rune
It really depends i think.
dapper zodiac
subt*
smoky fiber
iono i tried SS/subt for the first 3 and I've had more success with MA personally, with both how it feels and parses, and past the first 3 id never run SS/Subt unless I got a piece with DD and SS on it
bleak spoke
gold tasseled epaulets anyone
full pagoda
Well, I'm kinda stupid and I forget to check port timer, but if you do, TB will be fine
next gazelle
Me2
full pagoda
Is it there more than one piece which is with DD+SS, and if so I wonder if 3SS+ 3DD will be better than 3 SS with anything or 3 DD with anything?
bleak spoke
3SS 3DD doesn't fit anything particularly well is the issue imo
quartz rune
Yea cuz u want to play MA with DD
bleak spoke
though i think if you had hella uptime on a patchwerk boss would probably be okay
3 SS implies that you have to fit the whole vendetta in your vanish window i think
err your empowered garrote window*
like there's no debate about it
but also 3 DD means you have to play every tb for mutilates
rotation will probably feel kinda stilted?
probably not much more than the normal subt tb feels
i really hate it tbh
quartz rune
Yea subt tb is kinda annoying
vast forum
Honestly 3ss 3dd could be amazing for jadefire
quartz rune
And i hate delaying my Vendetta for Vanish
vast forum
Ss is great for 2 target
bleak spoke
yeh that
bleak spoke
yeh
quartz rune
Yea
vast forum
Np loses a lot of value on 2t
dapper zodiac
yea thats true
quartz rune
Do u guys maintain bleeds on 2 targets on conclave mythic or nah?
torn rose
Nah not worth it
bleak spoke
The real challenge on jadefire is beating paladins to the stun on xuen adds
torn rose
Use CP for kidney on raptors with internal bleeding talented instead
dapper zodiac
i did at the beginning THULY but its better to not i think
bleak spoke
I maintain I think itβs worth
dapper zodiac
its lost dps
bleak spoke
At the very least rupture is worth
dapper zodiac
the bosses get full lifed anyway
quartz rune
Yea but energy reg..
bleak spoke
E regen funnels lots of st
dapper zodiac
and use 5 combo points + 25 energy and 1 global
for it
maybe even a movement cd
to run to the other boss
if they cross each other its fine i guess
quartz rune
Which u dont really need otherwise anyway
spice surge
You're gonna get like 70-80 energy for that 5cp and 25 energy you spent
quartz rune
I mean u have Step and Sprint
spice surge
Assuming you cant run and melee hit it again to refresh deadly
bleak spoke
Usually fok refresh cuz of raptors tho
spice surge
Its pretty neutral if its worth it if they are ontop of each other
dapper zodiac
yea idk i tried both ways
spice surge
If they are far away it is not worth
dapper zodiac
staying on 1 boss with ma got me more dps
bleak spoke
with MA it's proabbly not worth yeh
spice surge
It doesnt matter what talents you have
bleak spoke
not even the first one?
dapper zodiac
3 DD 2 NP and 1 Scent of Blood
even with scent of blood talented i got more dps by staying on 1
spice surge
Why would it be worth to garrote in the opener? If the damage on the other target doesnt matter, then its not worth
bleak spoke
alright
spice surge
Since you have to keep deadly up on them aswell as the bleeds
bleak spoke
next time i'll try to ST
is there any difference in how they're played on mythic vs hc
dapper zodiac
not really
quartz rune
Not really
dapper zodiac
xd
quartz rune
Order might be different but
Other than that its the same
You just have to more careful with overlaps n stuff
fleet fossil
i got now 395 dagger from tol dagor , and i have equipped 370 7th legionaire dagger with deadly navigation and 370 last fang of rezan with yellow gem and quick navigation, which one i should gear up ?
withc this 395
gusty coral
Sim
quasi pewter
the one with socket is obviously gonna be better
fleet fossil
i would not lost haste cause of it ?
and can i put 2x quick navigation on 2 weapons ?
quartz rune
Thats a dps loss as u cant gain more stacks
U just get them faster i Think
Always enchant ur 2 highest stat weights
full pagoda
@dapper zodiac how exactly do you know staying on ST got you more dps?
Compared logs?
faint canopy
Okay guys, whatya think, is stacking Nothing personnel kid x3 good?
quartz rune
Compared to?
next gazelle
Actually... 3dd 2np 1ss or 3dd 1np 1ss 1 sb/1tn?
full pagoda
We kinda spoke about this y-day and more than 1np is good for burst and on mekkatorque
I really don't see a point in more than one
But you can always sim it
I think somebody answered that y-day but when you cast empowered garrote and all the rotation with it (with exsang) do you fully wait before you redot with vanish - garrote, I remember something like yes for ST and redot on multi target at 5.4
I wonder cos doesn't it loses % of parses by fully waiting the dots to get over with exsang?
next gazelle
Actually yesterday that I tried the ex opener it lined up very good with vanishing and re- applying the bleeds
spice surge
Im not sure i understand the question. If you're asking whether or not you want to let your exsanged bleeds run out fully then yes
Because refreshing them removes the exsanged part, so you waste parts of your exsang
full pagoda
Ok but, doesn't I lose % of parses like that
Even if timed
@spice surge that's the question though
spice surge
What do you mean? If you do less damage your parses will obviously be worse?
full pagoda
My bad, the uptime
If you wait exsang before redotting, isn't it gonna cause lower uptime?
Even if timed
spice surge
yes slightly
But having 6 seconds of exsanged rupture is twice as good as 6 seconds of unexsanged rupture
So not having rupture up for 1s is fine since you get more damage anyway
next gazelle
It's not even a second
polar tapir
see a lot of mentions about MA over Subt. I still sim higher with Subt, likely due to my 1 SS? or is there any other reasons it would Subt would sim higher?
strange python
Subt. + SS works so well together and gives more steady dps instead of burst, it's also much better for cleave/aoe since you can get multiple 'empowered' garrotes up
lament dove
yeah, MA seems to be only better if you have no SS
full pagoda
I gotta check again but if I have 3 ss, I'd prolly go back to it. It's fun to have insane crits and stuff with MA/DD build but it just fucks up so much even a lil aoe oriented fights. At least that's how it is for me.
real bay
1 SS life
buoyant flicker
real bay
yeet
hollow stone
The thing is... even with ss our aoe is meh compared to other classes. But with dd ma builds we can pump st. so from an overall raid dps perspective, for nearly every fight this raid, its better to play st builds
Not saying dont play ss if you enjoy it. But ma dd builds are superior overall for this raid
brisk forge
Yeah every fight is ST, since there is like always prio targets
Ppl are a bit clueless with padding but MA is wrecking SUbt at boss dmg any day tho
small island
Whats the difference between training dummy and raiders training dummy? raiders dummy seem to take less damage than the other one? i did a 85k pistol shot on the other one and max i did on the raider dummy was 55k, and that was over 3min.
hollow stone
So.. 1. General wow question (easily google-able)
2. Referencing outlaw in the sin disc
Yikers
lone junco
@hollow stone Looking forward to sons outlaw m+ this weekend. Hpal main now so I can fart around with the rogue azerite. 3dd 1bits 1blitz. + something.
worldly iron
that's a yinkies
paper heron
Is there a standard opener for two targets like jade fire/conclave. Iβm ma/tb no ss
hollow stone
@lone junco gotta sneak an ace in there too
I disagree @buoyant flicker but i can see where youre coming from. Only boss imo for ss is jade
hollow stone
And even then..
onyx wind
or same openers
hollow stone
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
hollow stone
There you go
hollow stone
Same but still dependent on traits
onyx wind
so its the same?
hollow stone
@lone junco i said get an ace, you frick! π
Yea. Openers are same. But make sure you do the right one depending on traits n talents
onyx wind
Just wondering if any breakthrough happened
lone junco
Ace. Got it. Afk till I can see shit.
Aha I found a zoom box. Being blind would suck.
onyx wind
Boring π¦
strange python
Anyone that could tell me how Exsang feels like playing?
Got 3x SS available and wondering if it's fun in M+
verbal nimbus
it feels like a manic version of sin
strange python
I played it some in EN, was pretty fun seeing those massive rupture crits
hollow stone
Exsang is pretty dead imo. But it is still nice to play with. Feels like a mini AR but for sin
onyx wind
isnt it still competitive?
hollow stone
Massive crits wont happen. It just speeds up your ticks
Yea. It is. But for st, the way the tier is going, tb is king
Dependent on your available traits, of course
strange python
TB will most likely be better anyways due to scaling
strange python
Any good read on proper use of Exsang then?
strange python
So just refresh + exsang then
onyx wind
Yup
strange python
And line it up with Vanish
pliant nest
From what ive seen most ppl still use exsang in high m+
idle ember
Echoing Blades traits have any specific use beyond bonus damage for your fok spam? Layman's terms.. You have the same rotaton running sub/ss with CT you just do a load more aoe from EB static trait?
I only have 4 shoulders with the trait and cant pull any more pieces, so only playing with 1 atm.
pliant nest
And ive never actually seen anyone go for a ttk build... its always SS and EB
pliant nest
Its decent for ST but i dont see it used much in m+
hollow stone
Yea. Tb works with np and dd. yea, ttk for m+ is niche. Basically you would run it if youre group needs more prio dmg instead of aoe. And then you just play it like sub, get your bleeds up, then tb prio mob, fok and tunnel envs into it
Seli can get into it more. I only did 2 or 3 dungeons with it and they were a 13 and a 14; so not actually relevant lol
pliant nest
Yea that sounds like a good use case for ttk
onyx wind
at that point you would just go sub right?
hollow stone
It wad cool. Ran 2 ss 2 eb 2 ttk. Was comparable
fierce pivot
What is TB
hollow stone
Idk exeo :/
tough lantern
What is ttk
hollow stone
Tb toxic blade talent. Ttk twist the knife trait
onyx wind
idk, seems like ttk in pve is just trying to be sub
pliant nest
Kinda, but sub just isnt so good rn
onyx wind
Miss early season BFA sub
vestal wren
early bfa sub?
onyx wind
yes
vestal wren
so, current iteration with shuriken combo
royal lantern
early bfa sub was allready.......weeeeell.......not that great.....?
gameplay was.....not good too say it without bad words
onyx wind
early bfa sub was sick
royal lantern
it just pulled numbers in some situations
royal lantern
nothing changed lol
onyx wind
nerfs happened
royal lantern
sub just lost shuriken combo
onyx wind
and shuriken
royal lantern
and numbers got lower
hearty jetty
sub got nerfed heroic week uldir
pliant nest
At the very start sub was the best Apec
royal lantern
gameplay is the same
onyx wind
pretty much the only 2 things worth playing it for
wanton lava
I just went on raider io and the 2 top rogues in the world are SUB did they change SUB or somthing?
onyx wind
hardhitting shadowstrikes
pliant nest
Sub got several nerfs...
vestal wren
by 5%
hollow stone
Bits nerf too
wanton lava
why are the 2 top rogues runnin SUB then it just interesting to me was wondering if they know somthing lol
onyx wind
cant have all specs being viable - blizzard
vestal wren
top 2 rogues?
onyx wind
What did they change with shuriken storm?
pliant nest
Top 2 for what? Raid?
royal lantern
and you can still ofc play it, the gameplay is simply clunky and boring as hell and downtimes hit you harder then my dad with his belt when i was younger
hearty jetty
lmao
wanton lava
azerite traits are in sub i must be bugged or somthing. Thats why i asked
on my scrfeen their traits are SUB
pliant nest
Doesnt matter what spec they are rn, they mostly play outlaw in their keys
onyx wind
pretty sure it depends on affixes aswell
wanton lava
got ya
verbal nimbus
^ 100k+ dps on pulls as outlaw, its insane
royal lantern
dont worry they nerf it, dmg is too close too havoc π¦
vestal wren
#2 musclebrah
royal lantern
and they cant allow that
wanton lava
i as just suprised cuz when i check one guy is usualy assass then rest outlaw i saw two subs was like WTF maybe its just good for certain keys up high or somthing. My bad all just woke up and saw that and got overly excited and asked lol
vestal wren
but yes undaddy logged out with sub traits equiped
royal lantern
maybe tried something out or pvp, idk
wanton lava
yea probably
pliant nest
Rogue has seen more play than havoc in high keys since the start tho.. why nerf now
royal lantern
if you have good aoe burst with other mates it can work too...idk, kill the reaping casters fast n stuff?
sub still has a really good priority dmg
vestal wren
the aoe->st could work in some specific keys
however sub's aoe is not that great, so the group need to have very good aoe
pliant nest
Subs pure st also isnt very good if youre using the m+ build
royal lantern
''shuriken storm spamm intesifies''
vestal wren
yes, probably if you pull trash to boss
idk
i play sub mystelf but i am not sold on it being better then the other 2
royal lantern
you REALLY need too play around sub too get actuall value out of it
vestal wren
yes, but i am not even sure its that much then
royal lantern
and still not sure if it is worth it then lol, you cripple other players too get more value out of yourself, and the advantage needs too be HUGE too make it worth it
vestal wren
like, if you look at opulance logs sub isnt even that good there (significantly higher in st to boss)
royal lantern
could work if it be like EN spriest where you waited with hero for StM for that 2xmore dps then everyone else
well, opulence is mostly single target
adds are not alive for a long time
vestal wren
sub is #1 or #2 on bossdamage in hc for it
spice surge
well BoD is specifically designed to not have another zul
So its not suprising that sub isnt particularly useful as that is the only thing it has going for it
vestal wren
i am not even sure zul would be played the same way now
spice surge
But ranged doing the same thing is fine :^)
royal lantern
atleast they made a ''stack ranged dot'' fight again, never had that π
vestal wren
given the advantage is not that extreme anymore
also enrange timer usually are not an issue
royal lantern
we need a NH tier again
vestal wren
flickering shadows was nice
fierce pivot
God damn Azerite reforging is too expensive
royal lantern
so that melee is better just for once
vestal wren
i dont think the issue is solved by just designing content to be as bad for ranged dps as possible
also dont forget beastmaster exist
crystal vault
when i dont have SS, should i still go subterfuge on bosses like grong/jade ?
wanton lava
depends on other traits
if you have some DDs to stack or some NPS with a KR trinket prob better?
then maybe dont need SS?
crystal vault
3x DD 2x TC 1xNP
wanton lava
i mean sub
crystal vault
and plumage
gusty plinth
@crystal vault MA if you have those traits
crystal vault
i could switch for bosses like jade/grong my chest from DD+NP, to SS+NP. same ilvl. that would be better right?
gusty plinth
@crystal vault ideally yeah not sure about grong
crystal vault
okay. other question. with MA, should i always line up Vendetta Vanish TB?
gusty plinth
yes
spice surge
You dont need to delay it at all in most cases, sometimes you may delay it a few seconds
As long as you use vendetta when tb has less than 11 seconds cd left you will have a full tb inside the vendetta window
crystal vault
so just delay vanish a bit for TB in vendetta window i guess
marble elm
Master assassin is fine for jadefire also
crimson girder
So for grong, do you guys vanish when adds come up if you can get garrotes on both adds and grong? Or do you save the vendetta till after adds die and you have full uptime?
lone junco
I stay on boss let raid worry about adds. ayo. Unless add is near boss when my vanish is ready, and im using SS subterfuge.
but I assume if adds dont die in time, dont do that.
prisma beacon
if u wanna parse then vanish to garrote bos + doub adds, if not and u struggle with boss dmg then vanish and garrote only boss after adds
crimson girder
Well the way the adds spawns, it lines up basically exactly the same every time.
leaden garden
Is Assa a good specc for both m+ and raiding?
lone junco
yes
leaden garden
Thanks Noobe
crimson girder
So if I open with vendetta, I lose maybe 2-3 seconds of uptime on boss, but I can vanish garrotes boss, and run to adds to get maybe 1 if not both garrotes off. Which is big damage
lone junco
sin is great for raid due to dots ticking while you are running around for mechanics. dont lose a lot of dps.
crimson girder
But also means my vendetta is up right when adds spawn ever time. And I constantly miss 2-3 seconds of garrote
lone junco
sin is great for M+ cause you can cleave very well, (not best in game) without using cds, and save major cooldowns for prio adds and bosses.
crimson girder
Err of uptime*
leaden garden
Cheers for the info @lone junco , appreciated
zinc zephyr
!pot
lone junco
zinc zephyr
does anybody know the difference between agi and bursting blood?
lone junco
bruh.
zinc zephyr
π
sand canyon
Sin can compare with law itβs just no one has the gear to do it with the right traits.
lone junco
it was probably a "im making a boost rogue, should I be sin or outlaw"
@sand canyon saw you playing outlaw now. just need sub to be strong and you can make the circuit in bfa
lone junco
but i have 3ss 1eb 1ttk 1dd. and
sand canyon
I actually think sub can be good in some keys
lone junco
that and 40% base crit
lone junco
im still in the 33% range. with only dice trinket.
lone junco
thinking about dropping ilvl pretty far to get that 3eb.
lone junco
outlaw cleave is fun, but im not a fan of the st.
probably just me though.
I dont like the hard uptime requirements.
sand canyon
No just to much rng
lone junco
sin can open and afk for a bit.
sand canyon
Hf Rolling 10x nrg on st what can u do?
lone junco
i like the "no reroll in cleave"
sand canyon
Sin actually reall broken just need the gear for it which is impossible in this system to wait 5 weeks for 1 bis trait
lone junco
good luck on your weekly box then.
lone junco
do the ss + eb not exist?
sand canyon
So I rather go law and gamble and whatever comes its good enough anyway
@zinc zephyr sup
sand canyon
Yes again wna play sin canβt because have to wait 14 weeks to compete with law
So cba
If u have a good tank u actually can play highest keys without even a big slow
lone junco
right when I accept to play outlaw they will nerf blade flurry by 15%
sand canyon
HΓ€
strange python
So is the ideal set up 3 EB, 3 SS?
leaden garden
guys, BE or orc rogue? can't decide, alrdy paid for the race change, someone just pick one of them
honest vessel
Be
leaden garden
Ty, BE it is
lone junco
3eb 1ss 2ttk If i could pick. for myelf
strange python
Would you still run Exsang if you had that setup @lone junco
honest vessel
Fuckin autocorrect holy shit
sand canyon
And blast for reaping
strange python
In that build you'd just have a fuck ton of Crit/Mast and like 0 haste
For M+, yeah?
lone junco
yeah.
sand canyon
Ppl just have to figure out rupture energy resets for reaping then they can also blast burst like law just so many ppl donβt abuse it. Thatβs why sin looks weak but actually super strong for reaping.
Not only sustain also burst
sand canyon
LOOl
lone junco
@strange python 3ss is gonna hold a strong exang. Once i started with Twist, I slid to TB for prio. but my shit is all over the place right now. have a SS/DD item so I run TB. Actually having the choices is tough right now.
strange python
Yeah, at the start of S2 I was running 1 EB, 3 SS, and 2 DDs. I do amazing boss DMG but my reaping dmg is just shit. Outlaw nerds are easily outdpsing me overall and it's made me switch
lone junco
crit matters.
hopefully each fok is 4+cps.
once you tab out your 4-5 ruptures hammering out fok env fok env fok env.
and remember the garrotes are worthless after first 3
strange python
Sitting at around 30% Crit' 15%haste and 30%mastery
lone junco
30 + trinkets. or 30 flat?
earnest token
exsanguinate snapshots right?
strange python
30 flat
lone junco
thats pretty low.
strange python
Yeah. Im trying to shed off Haste for M+
lone junco
once you start seeing buffed numbers in the 50% range
@earnest token yeah. takes your tick rate. looks at haste cuts the time in half. and snapshots then.
thats why GCB is very important to be down prior to Exang
and Fuck GCB. I use Bijou
vague oyster
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
full pagoda
So, guys I know there's not a specific number but what should be the % of haste for M+?
I think mine is too high as well tbh
and I can easily cut it off but not what to put try to get more, crit or mastery
strange python
I mean, as little as possible. There's not a specific number
lone junco
@full pagoda if you are just getting started with M+ on rogue, you can sim the dungeon slice for gear sets. then look at getting a little more aoe than that.
full pagoda
Not starting now but I just read what Musclebrah said and It's easier to get rupture resets for energy back, I just was curious, I think I got around 900+ for M+
30 crit, forgot how much mastery and like 900 haste which is like 14-15 %
lone junco
tab out and maintain 4-5 ruptures. thats plenty of E and gives you time to focus a prio after that.
civic forge
why do people value ttk in that eb build so much?
personally i'm going to try for 3x eb, then 1ss at least obviously then dd/np to still have some relevance on ST
full pagoda
@civic forge I assume cos EB brings 4 or 5 CPs which leads into envenom spam on the primary target
lost sentinel
you don't need dd/np to be relevant in ST imo
civic forge
at some point you don't even use env though
like during reaping or big pack pulls you just keep spamming fok anyway
which is what the build is built around doing in the first place
lost sentinel
it's for priority damage on big targets to kill the pack faster overall
TTK is simply priority damage that works with the way EB works
lost sentinel
yup
full pagoda
but what about tyrannical, I am always using gear like for raids, priority haste or it's still wrong?
lost sentinel
I guess it depends on your comp, could use more ST if you need to
prob more experienced M+ than me to answer that
I think even without the ST traits my ST damage is pretty decent though, depending on the fight and my cooldown availability
SS is pretty good ST still imo, esp. with shadowmeld
full pagoda
that's what I've always been using in M+ even for ST on tyrannical
I meant the gear stats aka haste/crit for tyrannical weeks, not crit+mastery as for fortified weeks
wispy ocean
can i have help with my question above
lone junco
@civic forge when you have ruptures out. and E capped, and fok env fok env. you can start hammering out 80-100k env.
reliance on SS requires restealth.
full pagoda
@wispy ocean honestly I am not sure lol, never happened to me
lone junco
@wispy ocean use deadly poison with the PVP trait for wound poison.
dawn root
I have such good ST sin traits on my azerite but not a single EB
lone junco
@dawn root sounds like a fail to me.
dawn root
How are you all raiding and doing m+ as sin without respecing? I'm not quite flowing in the 400+ azerite where I have can multiple sets of gear
pastel vault
Crimson tempest can do a lot of the aoe for you
But you're just not going to be top tier m+ with out respecing azerite or going outlaw
dawn root
Yeah for sure. I'm currently playing outlaw but I feel like assassination would be a lot better on high tyrannical keys
dense sleet
pls guys can someone tell me why the fuck sim says mastery is my highstat?!
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dBqp5emTuuiu1oQwPWTGmj
lost sentinel
I use 385s still in a slot or 2 for M+, the traits are more important than ilvl
then I have separate raid pieces
where I think ilvl is a bigger factor, I prioritize raid pieces, plus saves me a ton of gold
if I start doing more 15+ that could change though
shy dust
@lone junco that pvp trait isnβt in the game anymore
lone junco
great.
regal carbon
If hes using would poison, its instant dmg...he wouldn't see it on anything
lone junco
does it not leave a poison debuff for the Mortal Strike effect?
regal carbon
It should, if his ui is setup to show it
lone junco
maybe name plates are just messed up
regal carbon
I dont see crippling on his name plates, though it's clearly on the target
primal gazelle
Glad to see musclebrah agree with my opinions regarding sin's state in m+, meanwhile everybody is all "OUTLAW OUTLAW OUTLAW"
civic forge
i'm gonna be trying out that sin m+ build tonight after i craft myself some crit pants
i'll be over 2.1k crit at that point
primal gazelle
i would agree that its easier to play as outlaw because less gear requirements
sin's aoe dps scale ups up pretty hard once you hit 35-40% crit unbuffed territory with 3 EB
if you have under that.... then just play outlaw
hollow matrix
@dense sleet Probably because you have sim'd for Light Movement which means its likely going to devalue haste and increase mastery's if you plan on not having optimal uptime on boss
spice sorrel
What do you run with the EB? Does your ST tank as a result?
primal gazelle
ideally 3 SS
and yes your st will suffer
since youre using 3 traits with 0 st value
spice sorrel
How does the ST compare relatively with outlaw at that point?
hoary crown
Hey! on Fights like rastakhan I'm so confused what to do in my opener when there are the 3 adds at the start with master assasin and no shrouded suff trait π can some1 explain the max dmg output opener :)?
primal gazelle
idk i dont play outlaw and i havent played with many outlaw rogues in dungeons so i cant compare
spice sorrel
That's cool. Do you change anything for aoe on packs compared to no EB traits (outside of obviously not needing to FoK as much between finishers)?
I'd like to try it out after I get my 3rd EB
primal gazelle
you dont take CT with 3 EB, and you can just spam FOK if more than 7+ targets without having to cast finishers, assuming you can sustain enough energy to do so, either via 5+ ruptures out, or sniping low hp mobs (in reaping)
mint peak
FWIW with 3xDD 2xNP and Gizmo trait I sim only 1k higher as Assassination than in Outlaw with suboptimal Outlaw traits (2xDS.BB,Wits,SnakeEyes,GIzmo)
spice sorrel
Oh so keeping CT isnt worth it with EB?
primal gazelle
with 3 eb
crude agate
what it really comes down to is that sin will more reliably perform it's "simmed" st dps on bosses, especially fortified. outlaw is not bad for ST but on shorter encounters bad RTB rolls will have a larger impact on your boss damage
that reliable st comes at the expense of very reliable aoe output as outlaw basically everywhere else
spice sorrel
Whys that? It's one global finisher, no?
primal gazelle
- with 3 EB, your fok cast does signfiicantly more damage than your initial CT hit.
- Casting CT means wasting energy that couldve been used for ruptures, therefore less of an energy gain to spam FOK
- it sucks for reaping
- no st value compared to other talents on that row. (your st already sucks with 3 eb, taking CT makes it worse)
strange python
is ther any good guide (readable ) for assa ? pve st example
civic forge
what's your take on tb vs exang in that build
primal gazelle
both is fine, wont be a huge factor either way
civic forge
didn't think so
primal gazelle
exsanging one mob in an aoe pack doesnt really give u that much damage anyways
and neither does tb
civic forge
i think i'll just stick with tb for bosses
spice sorrel
I mean with SS traits you'd want exsang
primal gazelle
its not "that" much energy
civic forge
you don't need more energy when you already have 5 rups out anyway
primal gazelle
its equivalent to having 1 extra free bleed, since its ticking for twice the speed
heavy skiff
Yea but to get those 5 rup out u need energy
spice sorrel
Exsang is nice to get out after that first rupture to get the rest up faster
primal gazelle
yeah its good but its a very minor thiing
full pagoda
Thanks a lot guys for explaining everything you are rn, you are helping me a lot ^^
primal gazelle
thing about it this way, your #1 goal to achieve optimal dps in a pull is to have enough energy for every single GCD within that pull, as soon as possible, and ideally without overcapping on energy either
if youre sitting there for 2-3 seconds waiting for energy, thats a dps loss
also learn to snipe by casting 5 pt ruptures at low energy on dying adds for full energy bar back, this is super important
onyx wind
Why would you do that
spice sorrel
That is so huge
civic forge
because of our passive "venomous wounds"
primal gazelle
i just said why, to gain full energy bar back
onyx wind
But youre wasting 5 combo points
civic forge
you get energy back based on the duration of rupture that is left when the target dies
primal gazelle
you should be gaining 3-5 combo points every other global with FOK
onyx wind
I know what it does, im asking why you would waste 5 cp
civic forge
combo points don't matter as much in mass aoe, it's about being able to spam fok, which just requires energy
mass aoe = reaping
primal gazelle
because i can easily gain another 5 combo point by waiting 1 second to cast fok?
onyx wind
How many targets do you use this strategy on?
primal gazelle
it would take 4-5 seconds to gain 150 energy back assuming no cast
onyx wind
It just seems bad to me
civic forge
its not wasting tho
spice sorrel
Envenom damage is tiny in aoe. And you're losing the passive energy from that mobs rupture because its dead
civic forge
i'd say if there was a talent that traded 5 cps for 150 energy with no cd, people would use it
primal gazelle
doesnt matter pack size tbh, if you could trade 5 cp for 150 energy
would you do it?
sand whale
lel
onyx wind
If you could give me an example where it would be used, maybe i would change my mind
primal gazelle
energy is signficantly more valuable than combo points
onyx wind
You missing a lot of factors
First of all, you wouldnt need energy on larger pulls
Since you have everything dotted up
primal gazelle
i can cast 4 FOKS with 150 energy, which is enough to give me 16-20 combo points back depending on pull size
onyx wind
I mean unless youre playing a very specific spec (EB) I just cant seem to understand how its good
Youre wasting globals
Even
primal gazelle
what would you rather spend those 5 combo points on then? if not to gain 150 energy?
1 envenom for 23k dmg?
or 4 foks for significantly more
onyx wind
If i wouldve used it for an envenom i wouldve had full bleeds anyway
Which means energy isnt an issue
Did any actual good rogues speak about this tactic?
spice sorrel
Lol
primal gazelle
hmmm, 1 envenom for 23.3k dmg, or 150 energy for 4 foks that hits for 31.5k average cast? math is hard sometimes i know
sand whale
it's almost like @primal gazelle wasn't just talking about eb before you jumped in
primal gazelle
LOL
onyx wind
Then you shouldve mentioned it when i asked for a specific example 5 times
And yet, that pack mustve been pretty large
civic forge
lol...
spice sorrel
Doing more dps is wasting globals 
primal gazelle
even if there's 2 mobs up, 1 is dying and 1 is at full hp. im at 25 energy. i would still 5 pt rupture the dying one for full energy bar back, thats enough to cast 3 muts, which gives 6 combo points without crits
Trading 5 combo points for 3 muts and 6 combo points, would you do it?
civic forge
speaking of wasting dps, i imagine you don't garrote at all in like 6+ packs right?
with that build
spice sorrel
i mean i probably would for the silence on opener
onyx wind
I wouldnt do it
spice sorrel
not for the dps
civic forge
i mean't after the opener