assassination

[summer marten]

yes, i also do orb on grong

[quartz rune]

@royal lantern what are ur timings on Topaz then? First and 2nd adds with lust or?

[real bay]

we use meme dhs for that

[rigid mango]

It's either me or a warr

Who tak the orb every tine

How much damage does the orb do per tick on mythic?

Already hurts on hc can bet it stings a bit on mythic

[worldly iron]

I always pick up the first one, so it never really gets to hurt me that much

definitely hurts the second orb carrier, though

[rigid mango]

Aye

[spice surge]

Why arent you just putting immortal warlocks on orb duty

Instead of squishy rogues? 🤔

[rigid mango]

Cuz that means they have to move to it

[worldly iron]

because pressing extra action button on combo is too hard

shrug

[rigid mango]

Movement + extra button = too big brain for ranged

[worldly iron]

tbf I get that the melee should do it since we're right at the adds

it's handy

[rigid mango]

Yeah it makes sense

Also locks love the opu trink

I think?

Which means risking dropping stacks

[worldly iron]

every goddamn caster loves that trinket, that's all I hear about from our ranged guys

trinket this, trinket that

[bleak spoke]

One of our dhs takes first and a mistweaver takes second

to get into range fast

[worldly iron]

we have two dhs and a warrior

[rigid mango]

Yeah every caster loves that god damn trink

[royal lantern]

@worldly iron and you now the good part?

the trinket fking sucks for the raid

like really

[worldly iron]

which I suggested should take it

[royal lantern]

dont use it in the raid

this raid is full of stack/stay togheter stuff

[bleak spoke]

They make me sit on the second add cuz our casters can’t interrupt xd

[worldly iron]

pretty much, yeah

[spice surge]

Its impossible to use on most bosses if you have any hunter

[royal lantern]

and SO MANY FRKING RANGED DPS DONT STACK CUS OF ''MUH TRINKET'' AND THEN DIE, IT MAKES ME MAD

[bleak spoke]

This tbh

[rigid mango]

I mean we make them sit by themselves

In the corner of shame

[tribal marlin]

we have 1 group of trinket stacking together

[spice surge]

If it had agi on it so hunters could use it it would be usable on most bosses

But as is its only really worthwhile on like the first 3

Perhaps opulence if you're a topaz boy

or well, if you dont have any hunters

[rigid mango]

Can peeps with topaz stack?

Or does it not work like trink

Never take it for obv reasons

[shadow crescent]

hey guys it might be a bit of a hussle but do you believe it is possible to get 20% crit 60% haste 10% mastery and 10% vers ?

[tribal marlin]

60% haste without bl sound impossible

[summer marten]

60% with overwhelming power proc probably

[royal lantern]

im at 41%haste with GCB

[tribal marlin]

I think end of legion we had like 50% with all slot hasted and socketed haste

[royal lantern]

60%with OP is possible then lol

[shadow crescent]

my thoughts exactly

[fluid mist]

well at that point mastery will be so so much better then haste lol

[royal lantern]

290%mastery legion assassination:?

[shadow crescent]

is haste not basically uncapped from a scaling perspective ?

[strange python]

noobish question but does simming patchwerk make any sense?

almost no fight is fully stationary where you dont move

[rigid mango]

I mean grong is nearly patchwerk

[shadow crescent]

i mean it still gives you a relation between builds right ?

[rigid mango]

You can pretty much min max all your movement between boss and adds

[strange python]

hence why I said almost no fights

[rigid mango]

Fair enough

[tribal marlin]

as melee it's fine, thing shouldn't be much different. As caster light/heavy movement might favour haste a lot

[shadow crescent]

what would you all say is the optimal haste value for assa atm ?

[rigid mango]

Tbh, last 4 arent heavy on movement either

They're nearly always ST with little movement needed

[strange python]

lol mecha has a lot of movement

[shadow crescent]

only if u get unlucky xd

[tribal marlin]

mekka is light movement

[shadow crescent]

especially as a ranged it is less movement

[tribal marlin]

light movement is like 20y every 30sec

[rigid mango]

Mekka isn't heavy on movement, if you're not unlucky

[tribal marlin]

heavy movement is 5y every 10sec

or so

[marble elm]

Not forcing your hunter to use the opulence trinket

[tribal marlin]

Conclave is what approach the most "heavy movement"

[shadow crescent]

and then there is maiden or Kj the movement fuck you bosses for soakers

thats more of a wow general topic tho :p

[royal lantern]

dont

say

kj

i get PTSD flashabcks from that

[shadow crescent]

so back to my OG question ... what stat weights would you guys recommend for a assa rogue im on a quest to min max the fuck out of it

[solid nova]

kj kj kj kj kj kj kj

[fresh robin]

question... if ur running 3 mutilate traits do u ever press fok for cps or just keep up deadly poison for ruptures and mutilate?

and obsidia, its mostly haste, but u need to sim yourself my dude

[shadow crescent]

never fok

4 CP or if you are at 3 multi again

[tribal marlin]

well just sim your self, if it can help for me (playing 3xDD) I have haste on top of everything besides already having 20% haste

[fresh robin]

running master assassin > subter will value crit less, all depends what ur doing

i dont have a damn ss trait atm so MA is better atm

[quartz rune]

I just like playing SS much more than DD to be honest

[tribal marlin]

I'm not sure it worth runing 1xSS unless you have DD+SS on the piece

[quartz rune]

Eventhough it sims less

[summer marten]

same thing for me, im at almost 21% haste and haste is still well above mastery/crit

[fresh robin]

yeah that was my thought process... im running 3xdd and 1np, 1tc, and 1 sob cuz ilvl415 lol

[quartz rune]

Atm i run 3x SS 1x TC 1x DD 1x Ttk

[royal lantern]

haste is good because it does so much stuff for us

[rigid mango]

0 Np :(

[fresh robin]

seems like a good setup for m+ thats mostly why i want my ss traits back

[spice surge]

🤷 I like pressing vanish and getting big crits instead of a slightly increased dot over 24 seconds

[quartz rune]

Considering to change TC to NP though

[fresh robin]

ss + echoing so goog

[shadow crescent]

max haste ive reached is 29% and it was still some .01 better

[rigid mango]

Np feels amazing

I'd take it over tc any raid encounter

[royal lantern]

fast attack speed, and melee attacks do a big part of melee dps dmg in bfa, more dot ticks=more dmg and energy, more energy=we can use more skills too do dmg

haste does so much stuff

[quartz rune]

Idk for Grong TC is kinda useless but feels good if u have it up for 3x Garrote on adds

[fresh robin]

yeah white damage is tuned high atm, active uptime is a huge factor in dps

[shadow crescent]

its basically a paragon stat atm it does not stop getting better

its like mastery for sub

[fresh robin]

lol my statweights atm are haste 2.88, mastery 2.84... agi 2.11

[tribal marlin]

pearl divers subtely on conclave is ❤

[fresh robin]

so much for blizzard's grand idea to value ilvl

[royal lantern]

be happy man

[spice surge]

I mean haste doesnt get worse the more you get, but other stats get better when you have more haste

[royal lantern]

i prefer secondary over mindless ilvl

[quartz rune]

Its just stupid the higher ilvl u get the more value sockets get

[full pagoda]

@quartz runehow they get more value? I don't get it

[summer marten]

haste gets more value over agi pretty much

[spice surge]

I have 1.5k haste and 700 mastery so therefore mastery is worth a lot more

[fresh robin]

because +40 secondary stats are huge, after getting like a 415 piece

[spice surge]

http://piclair.com/data/e1k8w.jpg

[fresh robin]

say you get a 415.... warforging it to a 420 is only gonna give like 10 secondary stats, but a socket is +40

[spice surge]

Haste isnt always the absolute best stat

[quartz rune]

@full pagoda because agi gets less value the more u have

[royal lantern]

and you get agility passive on everything too

its not like a secondary where you try too aim for, everything has mainstat

[modern forge]

Hi guys, has anyone done jade fire mythic? need advise in getting my damage up...although i am still getting to know the fight

[fresh robin]

lol eleem, i have 1500 haste and 650 mastery and yet my weights are like 2.8 haste 2.6 mastery

comes down to traits, trinkets, and stat weights

[tribal marlin]

if you want to know in dept mech imagine that evenom deals 100% of AP=Agility. If you have 4k agi and add 40agi you win 1%. If you have 8k agi and win 40agi you only win 0.5%

[fresh robin]

its a combination of everything

[tribal marlin]

Secondary are also affected by this, but in a less proportion because they are increasing slower while getting ilvl.

[fresh robin]

in other news, anyone else getting bent this tier loot wise?

my guild regularly clears full heroic and 3/9 mythic 2 day, and ive gotten nothing rofl

[rigid mango]

From the dungeon rng pieces aye

[royal lantern]

a guildmate got AP from his last 10bonus rolls

[fresh robin]

0 sockets, 4 weps, no azerite from 1st/3rd boss which are like bis for rogues

[royal lantern]

badluck happens mate

[rigid mango]

For raiding atleast, got bis for m+

[fresh robin]

garbo trinkets outside 400 spyglass

feelsbad

[tribal marlin]

a good example is Versatility. If you have non say 100 versa = 1% you win 1% damage with 100 versa. Once fully 450 geared you have let's say 15% versa, you still win 0.85% damage with 100 versa.

[rigid mango]

I mean grong chest

Is mediocre

[fresh robin]

at 415 its good for raiding trust

[rigid mango]

It's conc for m+ and mekk and for st

Aint it?

[fresh robin]

i mean obviously its mediocre, but something u can aim for

[quartz rune]

Yea

[fresh robin]

as opposed to RNG box/rng residuum

[rigid mango]

Meh

[fresh robin]

mutilate trait at 415 is juicy

[rigid mango]

I'd rather rng a good chest

[fresh robin]

thats my sob trait btw smh :/ lol

[summer marten]

i would love to rng a good chest, but instead i get ruinous bolt

at least its good in m+ with EB

[royal lantern]

i got the ruinous bolt chest too yesterday

feelsbadman

[rigid mango]

Got 3x EB 2x SS 1x SoB for m+

Pretty stacked

[tribal marlin]

tbh I save residium to buy Wits + DS piece at 7150 :3

[fresh robin]

lol, ive gotten rings every box since this xpan came out, crap rings too >.> using the raid set over one of the 420s i got

[summer marten]

in guild both of us rogues got it... so bad lol

[fresh robin]

err tier* not xpan

[rigid mango]

I'm getting weapons out the wazzoo

[fresh robin]

must be nice

[rigid mango]

Got from both last 10 chests

[fresh robin]

smh

[rigid mango]

And from every clear

[fresh robin]

ur dead to me, stop

[rigid mango]

I've gotten like 7 weaps last 2 weeks

[worldly iron]

I got ruinous bolt for my chest too 😦

[quartz rune]

Got pretty lucky last week.. Opu Mythic first kill and bonus rolled that dagger 420 with socket

[summer marten]

looking at my awesome 385 weapons

[fresh robin]

not allowed to complain about 415 weps when im over here seeing which 400 parses better cuz of secondaries

[rigid mango]

I mean i've had some good luck sonfar

First clear of hc champs got 420 ttf socketed wrists

Could be worse

[fresh robin]

i had that luck last tier, double socketed 385s, one from pvp and raiding lol

feelsbad

its so frustrating how they just made wow a big loot crate simulator these days

[rigid mango]

Aye, I'm getting dogged for trinkets though

[fresh robin]

very annoying if you're trying to min max and char about your parses

care*

[rigid mango]

I don't since I'm very casual at raiding

But I should, since I'm debating tryna get into mythic raiding

[summer marten]

yea, game loves to screw you over something, have 385 weapons but got KR feather from weekly cache

[worldly iron]

I wanna get opulence down so I can bonus roll for some sweet azerite power, but some doofus dropped liquid gold at the boss on what could possibly have been our kill

sadness

[summer marten]

you get weapons, but no trinkets

[worldly iron]

I had 345 and 335 daggers for the longest time in Uldir, despite progressing mythic

I just didn't get any drops

[rigid mango]

Was stuck with a 365 boon until I did like 5x sots and had someone else give it to me out of pity

[summer marten]

yeap... and you coin and coin, but nothing... then you go outside and do WQ and get a 30-40 proc titanforge on some random crap (thats still worse than what you have)...

[ornate dawn]

im happy sitting on 2 400 Greed's Folly for now 😃

[worldly iron]

I've got a 400 goldboi and rasty dagger but I want more

[ornate dawn]

Everyone needs more

[tribal marlin]

bonus rolled 415 greed's folly :3

and got 410 socket off hand from m+

[worldly iron]

oh wait, I forgot I got a 410 in my weekly chest

[sleek iron]

if im on ruby at opulence

[full pagoda]

@tribal marlin I hate you a bit

[ornate dawn]

Ive got about 6 395 Zocalo Stabbers in my bags, can I not like squish them together to a 415? XD

[sleek iron]

can i aoe while white hitting the boss

[ornate dawn]

yes

[sleek iron]

responding to me @ornate dawn ?

[ornate dawn]

Yes

[quartz rune]

Yes

[dark crag]

That would be cool

[sleek iron]

kk ty

[worldly iron]

Yes

[ornate dawn]

Im usually red gem bitch too lol

[dark crag]

Take 2 400, squish them to get a 405

[rigid mango]

410 TD dagger kreygasm

[summer marten]

since its applied with abilities, fok is ability i guess 😃

[full pagoda]

Tbh I can't remember my ilvl of daggers

I think 400 with gem and 395

Gonna pray for tonights Opulence

[steep obsidian]

red gem is important dont knock the red gem bitches

[strange python]

I have 415 and 410 ;) 🙏

Shit azerite tho.... 😅

[full pagoda]

@strange python

Yeah I'm the opposite

[ornate dawn]

Think I got mythic head from 1st boss, first ever pull ^

been quite lucky

[full pagoda]

I'd cum if I get 425 with gem

Hope so

[ornate dawn]

XD

Oh my nickname finally changed

[rigid mango]

Yeah got mythic helm first try too

Big cummies

[full pagoda]

I was benched the first time they did champions

Was kinda mad

Benched on your bis bosses

[ornate dawn]

ripperoni

[unreal sundial]

jaina hotfix, no need to go troll

oh nvm not SP, will be benched anyway

[spice surge]

As if rogues are bad on jaina lol

You still need melees

[unreal sundial]

thx for letting me know

[full pagoda]

Well rogues are great overall but still, there's no more than two rogues in a core team

[ornate dawn]

im the only rogue in my mythic raid team

[full pagoda]

We're two, feelsbad

[ornate dawn]

two's ok cos you can trade daggers ^

[full pagoda]

missing zul times, all yellow

[royal lantern]

my gm asked why method took a rogue on jaina

[unreal sundial]

for the sword obviously... :))))

[royal lantern]

i was like''really? no raidbuff/debuff means they wont take the basicly best melee dps class ingame?''

[copper kestrel]

Quick question. I'm i405 and sim 23K DPS. Is that a lot/little/average for 405?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iMxrNxa3eBeQ9ZEPDn2Tng

[steep obsidian]

its about right

[full pagoda]

@copper kestrel I'm 404 with 24k, it really comes down to azurite pieces the most I think

[spice surge]

Sim with MA instead and you'll sim a fair bit higher

Blaq

Seems to be mostly due to fairly bad trinkets though

[steep obsidian]

yah those azurite bits are pretty sexy

[ornate dawn]

I'm 404 too and raidbots sims me about 22k

[marble elm]

subterfuge is padding change my mind

[mental obsidian]

Link or didnt happen @gusty kestrel

[ornate dawn]

the empowered double garrote from subterfuge tho

[spice surge]

Its okay, you might not have grasped it yet, but you will all eventually give in to the power of MA 🦑

[quick edge]

Hey guys im a new Assa im currently running 3 DD 2NP and 1 Scent. im only gonna be Assa for raid so are these acceptable? And i know scent aint good but the best i could pick on the piece.

[ornate dawn]

but i got a lotta crit anway XD

hang on i simmed with my m+ gear on lel

[copper kestrel]

Yeah - the trinkets and 415 M+ chest w/ TTK aren't helping.
Maybe I should swap to MA, but it feels like a lot more work (once every 2 minutes) when it only sims 0.6% higher for me (when done perfectly!)

[lusty narwhal]

Nothing wrong with a TTK trait

Are you talking about the cephalohide chest?

DD/TTK

[shell briar]

what is haste cap for rouge assa?

[vivid bone]

4

until sims tells you another stat has more priority 🤷🏼 ?

[thorn tartan]

24 like always

[strange python]

Should I allways have Deadly-Quick? My stats sat mastery and haste is very much higher than crit at this point. Should I have masterful nav instead?

[vivid bone]

nice Tisumi ❤

[steep obsidian]

ttk sims better then ss by a fair margin for me and i only have people seem to think its really bad for some reason I guess they missed the meta

[ornate dawn]

Tisumi youve had good luck with sockets ^

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9KMebCvGimNoasgFh6QJKv

so close to 23k 😢

[vivid bone]

I'm close to 20k

391 ilvl only though

[steep obsidian]

i gave away a socketed 405 crit haste ring today cuz im nuts and my guildy had a 370 socket

so hard to replace socketed rings

[ornate dawn]

:0

[spice surge]

@ornate dawn Found something that could increase your sim by like 500

http://piclair.com/data/psdrr.jpg

MA 🦑

[ornate dawn]

XD

[steep obsidian]

its dumb that they neutred that from the lego shoulder buff and its still ended up being best half way through expac

shows you how broken the shoulders were

[worldly iron]

shoulders were very fun in world pvp before the nerf

[steep obsidian]

the bug where were a 9 sec buff?

i never had them then got them after

[worldly iron]

just the crit chance

[steep obsidian]

they literally would hvae taken me from mid tier dps in raid to top by a fair bit

[vivid bone]

I got them in the last 2 weeks of legion lol

[steep obsidian]

so fucking broken they were

i got sephuz pretty early

[vivid bone]

yeah same

[steep obsidian]

hurt a bit

[worldly iron]

my first leggo was burning wish from blingtron

[royal lantern]

@spice surge idk mate, MA always sims like 0,4%better then subterfuge for me for ages now

[spice surge]

Yeah thats what im saying

[royal lantern]

nothing that makes a big difference

[tribal marlin]

@ornate dawn swap SS to DD on helm and you get your 23k

for me MA is only 0.2% more than subter :3

[spice surge]

0.7% for me

[tribal marlin]

but if I switch my 415 inge DD helm to a SS/TTK 415 I loose 300 dps- )

[royal lantern]

and i gave up with MA after i used vanish into 0 crits 2x in the same fight

[brisk forge]

Need 50% crit to get MA working 😏

[full pagoda]

@royal lanternYou, my boy are the most unlucky panda evah

[steep obsidian]

haha yeah that would be fucking triggering

[full pagoda]

Guys you made me read so much text, was afk for so little haha

[steep obsidian]

i havent even looked at sims properly for the variation is there much more variation with ma?

[full pagoda]

@steep obsidian you're a good person for giving that ring btw haha

[steep obsidian]

i also traded a socketed jaina ring to my ww guildy to complete the set bonus /shrug

[full pagoda]

Variation in what?

[ornate dawn]

I would have never given the ring away

[steep obsidian]

its only loot and if it helps someone else more then thats what i care about

in prog

[vivid bone]

Goodboi Sadbod

[steep obsidian]

in a pug fuck everyone

[vivid bone]

this is such a wholesome channel

[steep obsidian]

see it comes around sometimes if you are nice to people sometimes they give you shit back too 😛

happened to me a few times with my druid friend buddy when i got stupid tf and traded it and then he got shity that was bad stats

and traded it to me coz bis

[hollow stone]

The odds of not critting at all during your MAs in the same fight is extremely low; like multiple 0s after the decimal percentage. That sucks so bad lmao

[steep obsidian]

but we just roll shit in guild lol

[brisk forge]

In your dreams, being nice is nice in theory xD

[steep obsidian]

and i never win

[ornate dawn]

On the one hand progression is important hence giving up the ring, but on the other hand who the fuck has a 370 this late

XD

[full pagoda]

@brisk forge Being nice with guildies is always nice, otherwise no

@ornate dawn I do

[steep obsidian]

then again I've missed half the prog bosses so loot seems kinda pointless to me right now

[brisk forge]

Exactly 😀

[ornate dawn]

@queen girder Feelsbadman

what u got?

[full pagoda]

It's a decent ring with lots of haste + gem, seal of something

[hollow stone]

Fh ring

[full pagoda]

And the other is 385

@hollow stone yes I think

[hollow stone]

Questionable intent

[steep obsidian]

i have decnt luck with loot though so maybe the game knows and is nice to me

[brisk forge]

But with 7th legion if u got enough

[ornate dawn]

like yeah I dont know why pepple dont farm the 200 Honourbound medal ring

395

[steep obsidian]

id get that ring just for the extra portal

its handy

[full pagoda]

Am I the only one who has problems remembering item names, for me it's just stats

[steep obsidian]

to go reforge

[ornate dawn]

i use that portal daily

[hollow stone]

I remember the names of a lot of the pieces w bis stats but the others...

[steep obsidian]

i have no idea about item names

im crappy with boss abiltities too

[ornate dawn]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=166559/commanders-signet-of-battle

essentially free

[steep obsidian]

there are like 5 different abilities called hand of "something" on jaina so peopel think im dumb when i talk about some of them

or mix them up

heart of even

see i proved it

[brisk forge]

I am the same, as long as u know what u're doing 👍

[full pagoda]

Eh 395 ring but I'm saving medals for mounts

[brisk forge]

...

XD

[ornate dawn]

ring first then mounts, you cant outgear a mount :p

[full pagoda]

Got almost enough for the tiger

[brisk forge]

The mounts is really ugly tho

Imo

[full pagoda]

But you're kinda right, mount won't escape

Wish it was flying

I've being called tasteless but I love all of those flying tigers, horses and stuff like that, hahaha

[ornate dawn]

but either way, I'm sure a 370 -> 395 is a hella upgrade ^

[thorn tartan]

The Tiger flies?

[lament dove]

what tiger...? need to check that vendor again....

[ornate dawn]

Theres a bat and a weird thing

[thorn tartan]

The cool one on alliance

[lament dove]

although I don't like tiger mounts, chars look stupid on them

[honest vessel]

do on use trinkets like yulon benefit from master assassin crit increase or vendetta's damage taken increase?

[lament dove]

ah, i'm horde^^ got the mount already then

[honest vessel]

i ask because sim tables do not hold yulon's for any buff window

[ornate dawn]

Alliance too busy chasing mounts this is why you dont win world firsts XD

[full pagoda]

@honest vessel that a a good question, hope somebody is available at answering it

[honest vessel]

thx 😃

[steep obsidian]

I havent tested myself but i seem to remember a trinket hotfix and think it might be no kira

i actually have a yulons and could test it i guess

[full pagoda]

Yeah, I also got it but I'm coming home atm, gonna take a while before I can do it

Been writting from phone all day

But the trinket itself is bad

Compared to most

[honest vessel]

yeah it just barely outdid my 380 boon

but i figured it was more consistent due to some movement

[steep obsidian]

ill test it a few more times but it looks like it doesnt

i have 25% crit and it crit 1x

out of 4

gimme like 5 mins to try a few more times lol

[honest vessel]

lol

[steep obsidian]

but it makes sense coz i remember a trinket design thread during beta from lore that talked about how trinkets were too strong coz they snapshotted or something

[queen tiger]

god bless RNG

[steep obsidian]

they didn't like how glaives was so stupid strong

nice dungeon chest

[solid nova]

Nice

[steep obsidian]

decent raid one

[lusty hamlet]

MA doesn’t sim higher than subterfuge for me 😂

[steep obsidian]

yeah you need like 3 dd

or 2 at least

[lusty hamlet]

I have 2

[honest vessel]

are you simming with good traits to replace ur suffocations?

[full pagoda]

@queen tiger What's that addon that shows traits like that and does it work that way for the other people?

[lusty hamlet]

Probably not I only have one SS though

[queen tiger]

The addon is AzeriteTooltip, the creator is jokair9

[full pagoda]

Does it pressures the PC?

How much memory does it uses

[upper island]

o_0

[honest vessel]

probably very little

[thorn tartan]

Super lightweight

[queen tiger]

Almost none

[full pagoda]

I'm askimg cos I'm on a potato compared to most peeps

[queen tiger]

its really lightweight

[steep obsidian]

tested it 4 x pressing it from stealth kira 25% crit every time which is what i have

[thorn tartan]

No 2080ti for wow?

[full pagoda]

@upper island that reaction omegalul

I feel I'm doimg the walk of shame hahaha

[steep obsidian]

on the aoe mobs in the target dummy early where there are 4

[honest vessel]

damn so no MA increase

well at least sims arent wrong, that's a good thing

vendetta probably works tho

maybe just isnt worth it tho

[thorn tartan]

As longas you got one ss subt is better

[honest vessel]

i'd say that sentence is misleading. ss is just terrible without subterfuge. You're alternate traits might be better with MA than the ss is with subter

[full pagoda]

Off topic, how to switch colour of discord channel name?

[honest vessel]

it's based off of ur main role

i added sub first so im blue

you added sin first so ur red

[full pagoda]

Ok thanks 😂

[upper island]

ewwww sub

[solid nova]

Its based on what you have selected

Sub > Outlaw > Sin

Nothing to do with the order you select them

its just rank order in the discord based on role creation

So you need to remove other ranks if you want another to show above it

[full pagoda]

No, I'm assa for life, even when it sucked ass

[solid nova]

Hasnt sucked for a while 😄

[upper island]

Richard will you go out on a WoW date with me?

[solid nova]

No

[full pagoda]

I remember in the start or mid of Legion it sucked, I suffered big time but still was playing ans enjoying it xD

[upper island]

😦

start of legion it was all about exsang, later in legion sub pulled ahead

[honest vessel]

i miss legion sub

the golden days

[upper island]

it twas a better time

[honest vessel]

and very end of legion, at least argus prog, sub was so bad i swapped to sin for one boss 😛

blizz made me switch to sin faster this xpac :/

i remember dfa crits for 13 mil

sigh

[upper island]

MILLIONS

good times

no gcd mmmmm

[honest vessel]

mmmmm

[upper island]

Richard, will you go out on a runescape date with me?

[solid nova]

@upper island Keep the channels on topic, ill only tell you once.

[tidal tartan]

Looking for someone who has a few minutes to answer some questions pertaining to logs/sims over voice. Please PM if you have time

[solid nova]

You can link the logs here 😄

[upper island]

Lets just say we were to coat our daggers in aphrodisiacs instead of poisons

Im kidding sorry, anyone on PTR?

[idle ember]

Can someone tell me what I'm doing incorrectly with my simming. Whether I do patchwerk or cleave add and select the subterfuge build it keeps prioritizing other traits and not including shrouded suffocation in the Top Gear filter.

Even though it's on 2/3 pieces.

[solid nova]

Link the sims you're running?

Cant tell you if somethings wrong without 😄

[idle ember]

Yeah. I'll have to wait until I'm home. Should have known better. 😦

Just kept flipping through sims moving traits around before raid last night and it wasn't working driving me insane.

[feral flower]

What settings are you guys using to sim for raids? SS is almost never recommended for me despite correct talent choices etc and I can't imagine this is the case as when I feelycraft I'm more efficient

Can't imagine 415 scent vs 415 SS is better in other words

[carmine lynx]

can somebody lend me a hand with my logs please ? it would be much appreciated , if you could take a look and point out my mistakes , cause clearly i am doing something wrong (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KWJmLzQV1wbkdrv9#fight=28&type=damage-done) just an example of a fight where i felt i underperformed for my ilvl and gear set , thank you very much in advance

[feral flower]

You didn't underperform that much. Purple for ilvl isn't terrible. It's going to happen when RNG factors are involved, traits etc.

[carmine lynx]

i know it s not that terrible but given the fact i wanna improve my gameplay i really feel like i am doing something wrong ,but i just don t realize what it is

[thin patio]

@carmine lynx some time you lose debuff, care for dots uptimes

[copper kestrel]

"underperformed for my ilvl". 86% parse.

What do you perceive as performing at ilvl?

[heavy skiff]

99%

[carmine lynx]

i mean for my expected gear and trinket/azerites i feel like i am not playing optimal and not doing my rotation right , that's why I wanna know my mistakes so i can reflect on them and improve on the long run

[copper kestrel]

Fair. As we saw above, the same ilvl can sim vastly different.

[carmine lynx]

it's the small things in the rotation i probably miss or don t know that i want to learn 😃

[unkempt gulch]

that fight is also kinda bad since u could end up with a lot of downtime from being shrunk, in robots, etc

[vestal wren]

mekka parses are rng as hell

[copper kestrel]

I felt the same way! But ST sin really does seem as straightforward as the guides. If you're doing your opener by the book, following the prioritization, and using wow analyzer. There's not much more to it than that.

[vestal wren]

you can have 90-100%tile if you get only lucky/not targeted by mechanics

[copper kestrel]

Now for multitarget. I have a bunch of questions that seem really hard to answer that the guides don't get into

[vestal wren]

did you read rh guide or wowehad one, wowhead's one is more in detail

[copper kestrel]

Think I've been through them all

[heavy skiff]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[copper kestrel]

Here's my question copy-paste. Maybe it really is as simple as "Garrote & Rupture" everything. But my gut is that as some number of targets, that becomes untrue and you only rupture for energy regen/EP. And spam FoK for damage. Gonna do the math when I have some time.

[honest vessel]

U def wanna spend the cp...a poison bomb proc on that many targets is hella damage

[copper kestrel]

Got it

What about garrote?

[honest vessel]

But envenom is probably better than an additional rupture at some point

[copper kestrel]

Right - for the poisons

Here's my copy-paste of non-ST questions:

For larger, long-living packs (M+ & Rastakhan)
Garrote: At what target number do I ignore the guide's "garrote if it will live long enough" and spam FoK?
Rupture: How many active ruptures does it take to sustain FoK spam? Is there a target number at which I should envenom and only rupture for the energy?

For single, short-lived adds (Conclave Raptors, Blockade Sirens)
Garrote/Rupture: Is there a TTK at which it no longer makes sense to DoT?
<4cp Ruptures: Does they ever make sense? Or because of venomous wounds, should it always be 4+?

For Conclave Raptors: Should I be multidotting or just tunneling them down?

I get our (simple) ST/Cleave rotation. (Jadefire/Gronk parses are great.) But my multitarget game is hot garbage.

[honest vessel]

If you have ss and vanish, put garrote up in as many as possible, but if you don't need the energy gen probably not worth

[dark crag]

Rupture mobs when you have envenon buff, use envenom after buff wears off

[copper kestrel]

At what number of targets though? At 2, it seems like garrote is still worth using.

[dark crag]

If priomob is there, pump env into it

[honest vessel]

You could check sim tables with multiple bosses if you want, that answers pretty much everything

[dark crag]

When your raid finishes the raptors fast you just use a few envs on it

[copper kestrel]

Does venomous wounds not make a rupture worth?

[dark crag]

It all comes down to how many targets, how long they live

In big aoe you rupture to boost energy reg, at somepoint you could rupture like x mobs but you cap energy nonstop. Assa is complicated because it is a dot spec and at somepoint you dot yourself dead

[misty delta]

Rupture 4 targets. Then fok fok envenom (depends on energy at the moment if it's high i add a 3rd fok) fok fok fok rupture repeat and then the 3rd cycle is envenom for me

[west cove]

does NP damage stack?

[real bay]

yes

[dark crag]

I don't really care much but i keep rupture up for a good energy reg and keep envenom buff up. Once enough ruptures tick, i spam envenom until rupture refresh time is on again

[misty delta]

I definitely would say with ss and subterfuge empowered garrote x 3-4 is worth it. My numbers show 1 empowered garrote doing roughly 100k in my openers

[real bay]

Energy no

[west cove]

is 2 SS better then 2 DD ?

[misty delta]

At what?

Define better

[dark crag]

Remember ss is only opener and vanish

[west cove]

m+ or raid?

[misty delta]

Mythic + ofc it is raid its very fight dependant

[carmine lynx]

@west cove depends on the fight , for bosses with cleave/adds SS outshines , if you want full ST you would wanna run DD better

depends on your gear and stats also

[misty delta]

The issue is very much relevant in based on your raid group.

[west cove]

so does SS damage only apply from stealth or does it apply on normal garrote also?

[misty delta]

Stealth

[carmine lynx]

only from stealth

[real bay]

1 SS until enough azerite to swap around

[west cove]

ah ok then it makes sense about m+

[misty delta]

For instance mythic gronk has good values but if your heroic group has 30 people and they're all nuking adds it' might lose that value

[real bay]

they don't live near long enough in hc

[dark crag]

Imagine pressing 1 button and doing your normal everyday stuff

[west cove]

the dream @dark crag

[copper kestrel]

Thanks everyone! This has been super helpful

[dark crag]

The dream's called outlaw

[misty delta]

Np, i was going to thro this in there. For adds that dont live long it's fine to triple garrote then go into fok fok envenom spam and pass rupture at all but you have to pool to get your damage out

[graceful vine]

So the Garrote twice during Vanish. Is this to save energy or should you still fill the 2nd GCD with something if you can reliably hit Garrote on the 3rd?

I don't typically have an issue fitting 3 but I do find myself needing to pool a bit immediately afterwards.

[dark crag]

You want to ss garrotte mobs that live long enough

[misty delta]

If you run ct you ct,vanish,g,g envenom for decent "bursting" low hp mobs

[dark crag]

You garrotte twice to get maximum ss duration

[misty delta]

The only scenario that this matters in is multiple targets. In a 2 target opener you can hold vanish until the 7 sec left on your opening garrote and get the max pandemic on both

Basically jadefire

[graceful vine]

I understand that part, I'm curious of how we handle the window though. You can fit in 3 GCDs, so in certain scenarios, I can go into that window with 2 CPS, Garrote -> Rupture -> Garrote but when I come out, I'm typically needing to pool energy. That scenario seems fine, but then you have situations with 0 CPs, Garrote -> ?? -> Garrote.

The 2nd seems like you should possibly skip the 2nd GCD (??), pool and get the extended duration of Garrote on at the last second, eh?

Otherwise you're going to overcap/likely have to pool anyways.

[misty delta]

No, in that same scenario i have rupture to refresh on 2 targets and vendetta is rolling. Basically the cp from refreshing garrote on both targets goes into a rupture refresh

[graceful vine]

and purely ST?

[misty delta]

Your opener in t1,g t2g, t2 rupture, pblade,vendetta mut,mut, t1 rupture, t2 mut mut envenom then it's time till refresh

For st that's fine if you wanna double garrote, but personally i don't like as much as i use to since I've occasionally lost my empowered garrote to doing it with latency

[hollow stone]

Pure st, plan ahead so the first g is never at 0 cp. its not hard to do. If you blank and dont set it up properly, it's likely worth g env (3cp) g to get your ep going for the emp garr

Outside of opener, of course

[graceful vine]

That makes sense.

Yeah, I'll just do one more Mut beforehand. Sorry, I'm running a little slow this morning 😅

[honest vessel]

@graceful vine vanish doesn't actually increase the damage of anything other than garrote so you might as well pool in it. You garrote onece and then wait til subter is about to fall and refresh garrote for Max uptime

[hollow stone]

Or you can just plan ahead 🤔

[charred wedge]

Where can I link my logs and people judge it and see what I’m doing wrong? I want to be able to keep the info u give me so whispers or something?

[misty delta]

You're fine but the real issue is even tho that may net small gain if you're refreshing you're at the max pandemic already for that split second. If your tanks are like mine they move the boss or some other random happenstance takes place you're only risking that entire trait and talent

[solid nova]

Here

[honest vessel]

Wowanalyzer

[charred wedge]

WhT is that?:0

[misty delta]

There's so many fights where we are on the side/ front of the boss and a bad parry dodge can bait a bad re cast

[solid nova]

Wow analyser tells you nothing beyond bare, bare basics

Wouldnt recommend it at all

[charred wedge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/36232361?mode=detailed&zone=21#difficulty=4

Not sure I did that right

[shy drum]

!stat

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

[solid nova]

@charred wedge
!guide

[fleet fossil]

Can somebody tell me why my single target dps is much more lower than aoe dps ?

[solid nova]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[solid nova]

You opened grong, garrote, garrote, cheap shot, envenom

So you should start with the basics

[honest vessel]

Sounds like wowanalyzer

[solid nova]

Your opener is wrong, you're massively overcapping CPs, you're not utilising TB, vanish windows or 2nd pots

Wow analyser isnt going to help at all in this scenario

[spice surge]

I tested wowanalyzer with his logs

The fact that this seems fine at first glance

http://piclair.com/data/m93ih.jpg

When he wasted roughly 25% of all CP he gained

[charred wedge]

I had no pots

[hollow stone]

Wowanalyzer is a good tool tho 🤷‍♂️

[honest vessel]

Fair enough

[solid nova]

Not sure what you're planning either here.

I think you just need to start with the guides, pins and other resources and work from there

[heavy skiff]

when do i use tb in aoe? after spreading rupture and then try to get as many env as possible inside it or what?

[spice surge]

Depends on what you're after with wow analyzer. It has some useful features, this for example http://piclair.com/data/38zt9.jpg

But other than that and supporting some trinkets it mostly has the barest of bones

[misty delta]

Does it say how far into it? Or was it at like 1 sec

[light kestrel]

I did my healers a solid and swapped my TC traits out, so now I'm sitting at 2 eb 2np 2ss for M+ and it feels great

[bold hearth]

The consensus for TB usage is still to overcap on CPs if it means getting a 5 CP envenom in right?

[brisk forge]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[rigid mango]

Generally how does ep clipping work?

[hollow stone]

Clip it at 0.1 sec

[rigid mango]

clip it meaning?

[hollow stone]

Aim for 100% uptime (impossible) but if you aim high, youll hit sorta high :p

[wide delta]

hey guys,
how do I get rid of the frame
http://prntscr.com/mo9spp
Lightshot
Screenshot

it wasnt there before
it looked like this before
http://prntscr.com/mo9t6b
Lightshot
Screenshot

[rigid mango]

So what, you just wanna space your finishers

And hit them as late as possible to min max the up time of EP?

[hollow stone]

Meaning when there is 0.1 sec left on your ep buff, use another finisher to refresh it but dont use it too soon or you miss out on potential ep uptime

Make sense?

[pastel vault]

When/why would you wait until .1 sec on EP

[rigid mango]

he just explained it pretty well

[bold hearth]

To maximize EP uptime, you also want to avoid clipping energy though.

[rigid mango]

EP = more damage, refreshing EP = more EP

more EP = more damage

[hollow stone]

I mean, technically you want 0.000001 remaining on ep so your finisher gets the ep boost too

[pastel vault]

You're not missing out on uptime are you? You're limited by emergy

[hollow stone]

But thats extreme

[rigid mango]

Well, you can normally hit a finisher before the last second of yourn EP

[hollow stone]

Yea. What stibbles said. Dont over cap energy or cps to keep ep up

Thats just bad play

[rigid mango]

Yeah I get that

[pastel vault]

So if you do it .5 sec after it falls you still get same duration

[rigid mango]

?

[bold hearth]

Yes but you wasted energy regen.

[rigid mango]

Finisher = 4 seconds of ep

[hollow stone]

But your finisher isnt in the ep window @pastel vault

[pastel vault]

Not if you didn't energy cap

[hollow stone]

You want your finisher buffed by ep too

[rigid mango]

You just do it as late as possible

[civic stag]

is it worth to get rid of all SS for DD + NP, and play master assasin? I mean sims says so but I'm not sure if it really works that way.

[rigid mango]

if you finish when you have 3 sec left on your EP

in total you get 5 sec

[spice surge]

Yes @civic stag

[hollow stone]

For st, yes @civic stag

[rigid mango]

if you finish with 0.1 sec left, you get nearly 8 sec

[civic stag]

Thanks!

[hollow stone]

Right. Ep does not pandemic

[rigid mango]

8 Sec > 5 Sec of 10% dmg

[spice surge]

For st ofc, and assuming you're not losing a lot of ilvls

[hollow stone]

So thats why you want to chain em with as little of overlap as possible

But just the tip of overlap

[bold hearth]

You still want to overcap on CPs to get a 5 cp envenom for TB right?

[hollow stone]

Which is why i always say to aim for 100% ep uptime. If you aim for that, you will naturally start doing what im saying and you will end up having great ep uptime over the fight (i think 70-80% is good)

[rigid mango]

afaik, you use it even if on 5 CP

[hollow stone]

Not sure what youre asking stibb

[rigid mango]

I'm assuming he's asking if it's worth to use TB on full CP

[raven mica]

The correct answer is to plan for that not to happen

[spice surge]

Its okay if that happens because you crit

[bold hearth]

I mean you can't really control Mut crit.

[hollow stone]

Yea. Plan to not have that happen, but if it does, yes using tb at 5cp is better than the alternative

[spice surge]

Then you tb because it's better than to Envenom>tb

[bold hearth]

As in if you're TB comes off CD and you're at 5 cps its better to waste the one from TB than to envenom and restart

[raven mica]

Well don’t mut right before toxic blade is about to come off of CD and it won’t happen

Yea the correct play is to never have that situation in the first place

[spice surge]

Well it doesnt matter if it's right before

[bold hearth]

Either way you're Mutilating to get to 4/5 cps

and theres a chance of wasting cps

[spice surge]

You can mut 6 seconds before and crit it and then hold

1 cp is essentially 20% of an envenom and tb buffs it by 30%

So its better to tb >envenom than envenom > tb even if the first option wastes one cp

[bold hearth]

Yea I'm just trying to make sure that in the following scenario it's worth using TB: TB is coming off CD soon, Mut->crits to 5 CP, Pool for energy-> TB losing a CP-> Envenom

Okay yea

That's what I was asking.

[hollow stone]

Eleem is the king of explaining this specific interaction. Bow down

[serene basin]

And that can definitely happen too, so valid question

Just not ideal

[raven mica]

I woulda envenomd before the tb, you woulda pooled enough energy after the mut crit to still get the 2 envenoms inside tb assuming some crits

[bold hearth]

I know it came up when Method were streaming Jaina Prog and people were on the fence about Ylijao's TB usage

If you envenom before the TB you lose an envenom during TB duration

You're essentially trading the extra damage of envenoming during TB (20% or whatever it is) for 1-2 CPs from TB

[hollow stone]

Just copy pasta eleem. He nailed it

[pliant nest]

hi, do we use the mekkatorque trinket on full stacks always?

[raven mica]

Yes get a weakaura for it

Actually idk if it’s worth it to line it up with vendetta

[round harbor]

Hmm should I walk half mile in rain to my class, or sit in truck for 2 hours until my mid term

[raven mica]

I’m thinking outlaw rn

[sturdy python]

Mut>2cp>tb 2s from off cd>mut again>5cp

Happens all the time

[serene basin]

@pliant nest always? no

[modest snow]

outlaw cucks on 5 rolls.... only roll them at the end of combat, or on trash.

[sturdy python]

Yes, use Mekka trinket at full stacks

[bold hearth]

I brought up that trinket in research a while back, I think the sims use it at max stacks on CD

and do not postpone for Vend or TB

[serene basin]

If it's increasing, doesn't it continue to do so after on-use

[sturdy python]

It holds it at whatever stacks you use it on

[bold hearth]

When it hits max stacks it maintains it for 6 seconds

using the on use adds another 6 seconds

[serene basin]

So if you proc it at 5, it'll go up to 6 after 6 seconds, then pause, then back to 5

[bold hearth]

yes

[serene basin]

wouldnt that min max higher if you pause it at 5 while it's increasing

[bold hearth]

i don't see why it would

as opposed to 12 seconds of 6 stacks

[sturdy python]

That’s not how it works

Using the cd pauses it for 6 seconds

Then it continues whatever it was doing

[bold hearth]

correct

so if you hit it at 6 stacks you get 12 seconds of 6 stacks

[serene basin]

Ah I read the tooltip incorrectly

thought it ramped every 6 seconds as well (rather than 2)

[bold hearth]

there may be some benefit to postponing the on use for TB or Vendetta usage but I'm not savvy enough to check

[spice surge]

In general no, as the timing of that trinket is exceptionally awkward

If you know for sure you will not lose casts, then yes its worth

[bold hearth]

I'm sure there's some breakpoint amount of time in postponing the on use trinket where it's worth it

but it's probably a small gain

[spice surge]

As the stacks is random on pull

[bold hearth]

True, but over a 5 minute fight I'm sure the sims use it incorrectly at least once.

or at least use it on cd when it could have postponed for 10 seconds to line up with tb

[spice surge]

Using it incorrectly is better than not using it

[bold hearth]

Even though it's CD is 1 min 30?

[spice surge]

its longer than 1:30

Since the cycles dont line up perfectly with the cd

[bold hearth]

The on use is 1:30

Oh yea

[spice surge]

Iirc its either 1:38 or 1:40

[hollow stone]

My plan is to just have better trinkets than that one

[bold hearth]

Still gives you like 30 seconds of no dps loss holding time in a 5 minute fight

True, that trinket is pretty bad anyways

[hollow stone]

Its like top 10? Maybe?

[bold hearth]

15th on herodamage

but some of those trinkets are near unatainable

[hollow stone]

Yea but those have the god tier wq tittyforges too

Yea exactly

[bold hearth]

Gale/plume is probably best combo to go after

which is surprising I remember Kimbuls being really good at start of tier

[hollow stone]

Gale or plume with deadeye or dice

The dream

[bold hearth]

oh right gale and plume share a cd huh

[hollow stone]

Yea. Mekka trinket is just weird overall lol

[bold hearth]

Plume it is, considering how awful shrine is

[hollow stone]

Kr isnt much better lol

[bold hearth]

probably true, haven't done it since reaping

[glacial steppe]

compared to shrine, KR feels and plays like a cakewalk

[languid ore]

dumb question. but why open with garrote using MA instead of just mutilate then garrote, rup

would it make a big difference?

[spice surge]

Well, you want garrote ticking asap

And you still get the increased crit for mutilate for 3 seconds so

[languid ore]

ok

im trying to explain that to a guildie but i wanna make sure

lol

[hollow stone]

G m r is the same as m g r but you lose 1 sec of g uptime so it is a dps loss. It is possible, though unlikely, that m r m g is a better opener (please do not take this as me saying to do m r m g, just mentioning that it is possible that it could be better)

But from what we have, g m r is the opener w ma

[elfin fossil]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[pliant nest]

you guys think CT is worth it this week in m+?

[fresh idol]

heey, my sim says i should do 22k ish dps, i reach that number in my opener. After a bit im down into the 16-17k but i can never reach the 22k again even when my cd's are up... i tried everything. heeelp 😫

[spice surge]

If you link logs we can help you out, without that its fairly hard to know what youre doing

[fresh idol]

yea i know, im just a pugger tho :<

[brisk forge]

but sim is patchwork, isnt one boss that are pure patch xd

but kinda hard to say w/o logs

[fresh idol]

i tried on a dummie

[brisk forge]

need logs to see what u are doing wrong

[fresh idol]

will try to fix a log next time im in bfa

grong is the best one to see?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Kc24tXFv8wxLrZHz/#fight=12&type=damage-done&source=58

found one!

[fallow estuary]

Does removing the criple posion remove any sort of damage?

Or can i play without it without any damage loss

[spice surge]

There no damage loss from not using crippling

[tender walrus]

Which gem do we take on opulence?

[bronze topaz]

do we rupture the second boss at conclave for more prio dmg?

[civic forge]

opal

[spice surge]

No wann

[bronze topaz]

kk ty

[fresh idol]

about seduction power, is it worth to run to bwoon?

hes alwayys so far away

[grave elk]

Is there a rule at how many cp to use tb? Like I. Know sometimes it can proc multiple combo points

[raven mica]

the optimal play is to not run that trait.

[cerulean walrus]

^

[pastel vault]

@hollow stone when would you delay the envenom for clipping though? During TB and vendetta I thought you envenom asap and outside of those you pool energy

[hollow stone]

Basically any time outside of vend. During vend, with the extra E regen, you can def clip ep sooner to fit more envs in your tb vend window. Outside of that window, you want to env or rupt when ep is just about to fall off to maximize its uptime. Maintaining dots, using tb on cd, not over capping E or cps is more important than ep uptime. But if you wanna get closer to that "perfect" rotation, using ep to its highest potential is part of that

[grave elk]

How often do you guys pool energy? At some point in a single target fight I’m pretty much starved for energy and never know if pooling to 100 is a loss of dps

[hollow stone]

@grave elk ideally, you tb at 3 or 4 cp if you plan correctly. But that isnt always the case. Sometimes you eff up and need to tb at 0cp or 5cp. Its still better to tb then so you can get more tbs over the rest of the fight. Holding tb is a big nono

[grave elk]

Yeah I never hold it unless I’m doin a mechanic and can’t apply it

[hollow stone]

I pool all the time. If you arent over capping energy, over capping cps, or holding cds, then you arent losing potential dps as sin

[mossy adder]

how is vanish to be used when using MA ie should i be holding it for vendetta every time or using on CD?

[hollow stone]

Your van will line up to be used in vend every time

[grave elk]

@hollow stone how long do you typically pull? Or to what energy

[hollow stone]

And should be

[grave elk]

Pool*

[mossy adder]

and shouls i try wait to use it with TB during van or should i just spend the vanish on env - mut - env?

[hollow stone]

It depends. But as long as youre not over capping, theres no prob. Sometimes i hold for 150, sometimes i can only hold for 50. Depends on how much you pay attention :p

Same thing @mossy adder. They should all line up. You want your MA vanish during tb

And vend

[mossy adder]

Okay as I thought, thank you mate 😃

feels so much nicer than SS honestly

[grave elk]

Haha ok. Cuz I never knew if pooling as bad. I have 3 SS so I’ve never used MA

[hollow stone]

I do still love the ss tb opener. But yeah, MA opener is a lot cleaner than most give it credit for

[cerulean walrus]

It’s just a slightly more scuffed legion opener

RIP Kingsbane you will always have my heart

[grave elk]

You only run ma if you don’t have ss right

[mossy adder]

I feel like im using leggoo shoulders again

and i like it

hahaha

I believe so lotti

[hollow stone]

Btw loti, not sure what level youre playing at. Pooling is not mandatory but you can squeeze out a little bit more dps if you do it correctly

[mossy adder]

it sims a lot higher for me because im not using any SS traits

[hollow stone]

Yeah @grave elk

[grave elk]

Okay so I’m guessing only time I’ll switch is if I get a lot of double dose or nothing personal traits

[mossy adder]

basically

[hollow stone]

Subt and MA are very close (usually within 1%) even without ss

[cerulean walrus]

MA is more bursty, Subt is for that cleaaaave

[mossy adder]

its about 300 dps for me i think, although some bosses i still try to run SS

like champions and rasta

[hollow stone]

Depends on what your group needs of course. Personally, i still played full st for rasta in mythic

[grave elk]

I mean I wanna get better at rogue so I’m guessing I need to learn to pool often so I’m not just casting and waiting for energy to do my next move lol

[cerulean walrus]

Or just get more haste

[fleet fossil]

i have logs

can somebody check what is wrong ?

[hollow stone]

Just take what i said to heart. When i was told this years ago it helped me sooo much. And thats the part of "if you arent over capping energy or cps, you arent losing potential dps"

[grave elk]

Well I just hit 395 last night. So I’m still just trying to get higher ilvl so I’m not just tuning for stars as of yet

[hollow stone]

Still gotta maintain your shit. But keep that in mind and youll see an increase in your dmg

[grave elk]

stats*

[ripe nimbus]

Pooling in 2019?

[hollow stone]

Yea buddy. Pooling's a thing

[grave elk]

My biggest issue now is deciding whether to run ct or poison bomb in m+ and when to stop spreading ruptures to envenom in mob pulls lol

[hallow coyote]

yeah there is no way to keep enough energy without pooling afaik

[grave elk]

Yah I’m at like 16% haste

[ripe nimbus]

Not really maybe if u care about optimizing the smallest portion of ur damage but my guess anyone whos trying to pool is parsing purple anyway so it doesnt matter

[hollow stone]

I mentioned that too, crit. But if people wanna get dem orange and gold parses, that little bit helps

[grave elk]

I think I’m on 16% haste but crit is now highest sim for st

[fleet whale]

it's not uncommon your best secondary to be chaning a lot

[merry orbit]

it's worth to trust sim and change vers trinket to dice?
General question is for what should be changed Deadeye spyglass
I'm just wondering about plumage becouse ideal line up with vendetta... I'm not sure sim is playing with that setup ideal...
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wjCgnMnDnrB4LGUxrsqusa

[fleet whale]

like Mastery and haste are always fighting for it for me

[grave elk]

Yeah weapon enchants screw me over lol cuz I could prob switch it up often while gearing

[hollow stone]

@merry orbit trust the sim. Socket is hella value. I would def run the deadeye and dice over the plumage you have

[grave elk]

I just got a plumage at 400. And dead eye 375 lol I needed this to roll up

[fleet whale]

i really like the dead-eye and dice combo i'm rocking right now

[cerulean walrus]

Gib trinkets

[merry orbit]

@hollow stone I'm just wondering about plumage becouse ideal line up with vendetta... I'm not sure sim is playing with that setup ideal...

[grave elk]

Yeah I can’t activate plumage and stay in stealth right

[fleet whale]

lining up vendetta is nice, but you have to realise that dice and dead-eye are both very good trinkets for assassination as well

[autumn stag]

MA?

[fleet whale]

Master Assassin

[light kestrel]

Anyone happen to know what the cap is on residuum in your weekly chest?

[hollow stone]

The apl definitely uses plumage with vendetta. If you want to confirm yourself, click the "html report" on the sim and look at the usage. You'll see that the apl is using it properly. Trust me saying trust the sim. Trustception

@merry orbit

[fleet whale]

i need a new dagger so bad, stuck with a WQ 385 dagger in off-hand....

[hollow stone]

Theres a chart for that. I think wowhead has it @light kestrel. All i know offhand is 21+ is when you start getting over 1k tr from your weekly chest

[light kestrel]

Oh... dang. I'll have to have a look, thanks!

[light kestrel]

@lone junco thanks for the graph I'll have to save that

[north star]

does it make sense to hold vendetta for TB cd?

[pine garnet]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vT5Yr3EvqR6GcFuiZUpy6n

[north star]

or the other way around

[ripe nimbus]

Use them both on cooldown

[olive wharf]

When you have 3 DD and 2 TC, but no SS 😦

Spamming residuum at chest trying to get the DD/SS one.

[hollow stone]

Got that chest. Sims lower than the ttk np chest because the ttk one has op

[olive wharf]

Eh, I don't like OP all that much. Fights where you take ticking damage or damage from any source, it gets weaker

It's the same reason DoT traits/trinkets sim pretty decently (DitB/Kimbul's Claw) because they assume the dot will usually stack, you'll be behind the target always, and it'll never hit a low-health add or something. Or why TC looks so good: 100% uptime is near impossible. It's still pretty high, but I'd say ~90% is more accurate (YMMV based on boss/is it prog/is it a bad M+ affix week/etc)

(I'm also a button spammer so too much haste can be a very negative thing for me, lol)

[ripe nimbus]

U can set TC uptime and OP is very stronk

[olive wharf]

I know, though most just leave TC at 100%, and I know OP is stronk in optimal situations (and again, personal problem, but when I spam buttons and I keep doing low-CP finishers or 5-CP spenders because of the increased haste, I start shitting the bed, lol)

[vast forum]

@olive wharf why is haste bad if you're a buttonspammer tho?

[olive wharf]

Too much GCDR

[vast forum]

ehm

we don't play the same class i guess

rogue globals don't get reduced by haste

other than vendetta

[olive wharf]

You know, I was thinking that but when I play outlaw, there's times where I notice I can press buttons way faster.

[vast forum]

that's AR

[olive wharf]

I might just be talking about something in OL

Ah okay.

[vast forum]

and still unaffected by haste 🤷

[olive wharf]

Well I'm just bad okay.

Still not a huge fan of OP because of the whole "taking damage decreases stacks" thing, and I do want at least one SS point for the opener.

(and yeah I know that's not optimal but again, I'm bad, just ignore me lol)

[idle vigil]

OP is by far best trait

[lilac lily]

So, I just got 415 Mekkatorque trinket, what is the best way to use it? I'm guessing on cd?

[opal minnow]

i think the prevailing wisdom is use it when at 6 stacks

[wide hedge]

so i got 3x SS and 2x EB - should I play this build in m+ or outlaw?

[lost sentinel]

seems like a sick build lol

I'm 3eb, 1ss, 2sob, would love more SS

also tried out engie helm in place of a EB and SOB, which was barrage + TTK... not sure I liked it

[pliant nest]

3SS 2EB is pretty good for m+

[wide hedge]

kk then I'll try it. RIP gold for respeccing traits. bad feature blizzard ^^"

for the last trait, should I go NP or TC?

[pliant nest]

id prefer TC since it helps for aoe and single target

[tender walrus]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[magic thorn]

Hey guys quick question i was discussion with a mate and also stated in the guide but he wont believe me. If you play with tb, do you delay the first vendetta after the pull one to line up with vanish (when using ss and subterfurge) ?

[spice surge]

Do i want to line up my cooldowns together
Yes, you definitely want your 2 different 2min cds to be aligned

[magic thorn]

Yeah but he means its a waste to delay vendetta for 24s to line up with vanish

[spice surge]

Its not a waste unless the fight is literally 2:00/4:00 long

[high ingot]

why would you do that? at the beginning of the fight when you'll have bloodlust on most fights? you have a ss buffed garotte running anyway

[lone junco]

you need the vendetta to extend to cover the vanish GG if you run subterfuge

so vendetta at 1 is bad

it has E return so vendetta at 1 is bad

[high ingot]

nobody said use vendetta first

he's asking if he should delay vendetta 24sec until he uses vanish (wish ss+subterfuge)

and I don't think that's a good idea

[civic palm]

No.

[lone junco]

yeah. thats silly as well.

but not at 2:20

[high ingot]

@magic thorn don't take away the wrong advice, eleem probably didn't fully understand what you were asking 😄

[summer marten]

well... this is depressing, first 415 chest lottery got me ruinous bolt chest, and now 2nd got me... ruinous bolt chest

[magic thorn]

so i shouldnt use my vanish at 20s and use it the first time at 2.00

no matter how long the fight goes ?

[sturdy python]

Use it in opener as guide says

The line up vanish and vendetta for their second use

Unless the fight ends almost perfectly at 2:00 or whatever

[mint peak]

You use Vanish when Garrote runs out because your first Garrote is already empowered anyways

[magic thorn]

if i line them up the 2nd vendetta will be cast at around 2.20

[sturdy python]

Yes that’s fine

[magic thorn]

because cerow for example said its not a good idea and then i was confused 😄

[mint peak]

Delaying your 2nd Vendetta a bit isn fine unless you're missing a whole Vendetta cast which would only happen on a super long fight

[sturdy python]

I think he meant holding it until 24s for your first use is a bad idea

[magic thorn]

oh wow

now i see and yeah this would be bullshit

[sturdy python]

Won’t even happen in a long fight, you only hold vendetta once normally

[lost sentinel]

poison bomb, hidden blades and CT are all equal output for me on patchwerk x7 sim... presumably PB and hidden blades get more out of fewer targets though

[sturdy python]

It’s only a bad idea if the fight ends around 2:15 or whatever where you might as well use that vendetta instead of waiting

Which is super specific and you can see that on the fly

[lost sentinel]

I guess I should run PB on TD this week?

only a few real big pulls iirc

and like 2-3 reapings killed by cannons

[strange python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cTum5QLdtmGfSMbZCS9K1R

should i be simming more with this gear?

[brisk frost]

not much sockets + u have EB on ur sholders which sims 0

[strange python]

the shoulders are trash

jadefire wont drop the shoulders...

[patent shell]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[honest vessel]

@high ingot i was looking at sim tables earlier and with SS and subter sims do hold vendetta until vanish comes up and pops them at the same time

vendetta actually even after the vanish window, rather

[languid ore]

@hollow stone why would that be a better opener

Curious

M r m g

For MA

[high ingot]

@honest vessel The ones I'm looking at right now dont. Was it a specific boss?

[idle vigil]

Is MA better if I’m not running SS?

[honest vessel]

nah just patchwerk

yes colleo

[idle vigil]

And just use it for vanish ruptures?

[languid ore]

MA is better for ST apparently.

Vanish ruptures?

[honest vessel]

sim tables have you vanish and tb in the same gc, then mut, enven, mut

usually

[idle vigil]

Sorry maybe I’m mixing up MA what does it do agai

Again*

[languid ore]

Gives you crit

[honest vessel]

50% crit during and leaving stealth

for 3 secs

[idle vigil]

Ahh

[high ingot]

@honest vessel Checking the grong logs right now and the top logs all use vendetta pretty early on for your first set of garottes

just curious which ones you were checking

[languid ore]

I didn't know you could vanish TB in 1 gcd

[honest vessel]

i was running a patchwerk sim and looking at my own tables

pretty sure if you hold vendetta on grong you have adds up

so you wouldnt hold it

unless ur using it on the adds that is

[high ingot]

oh, i have to learn to read. I thought you were talking logs not sims... nvm then

[honest vessel]

no worries 😛

[cerulean whale]

Can you use cloak or evasion on opulence's coin toss to save raid damage?

[civic palm]

no

[rancid spade]

ask for darkness and pray

[civic palm]

Just stack ya big baby.

[rustic ether]

we need a command for that opulence question lmfao

[civic palm]

No works.

[strange python]

With three DD traits about how many targets would you fok?

[civic palm]

If you have no Echoing Blades, this is probably still right;

[warm harbor]

Any using 3x EB and 3x SS in m+ and wanna give comparisons to OL dmg? is it something worth moving towards?

[tawny sable]

any reason for the disparity simming boss damage with ss vs tradewinds? Herodamage has tw pretty far below ss but my sims say otherwise

[inner pecan]

are you simming ss with subterfuge

[tawny sable]

letting it pick between sub and ma

still has tw higher but it recommends ma as 0.2% higher than sub but still with tw

[spice surge]

SS isnt the powerhouse it used to be for ST

[tawny sable]

understood. i guess i was trying to reconcile the difference in the sim vs what herodmg shows them at

[spice surge]

Herodamage shows it with exsang

[tawny sable]

im looking at https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-levels/1t-t23-assassination

shows tb

unless i've bumped my head

[plain thistle]

exg 😃

[tawny sable]

/wrists

thanks

[onyx rock]

SS is still super good for ST imo

People underestimate it

[spice surge]

Slightly worse than twist, but its not bad ofc

[rustic ether]

@warm harbor sin with 3EB 3SS can beat outlaw, however it just takes coordination of getting restealths, knowing when reaping is happening, and knowing when to pool a little bit

@warm harbor also super helful to be a nelf in higher keys that lets you get a forced restealth

[onyx rock]

This is my SS/exang gear

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aHtXDZNxYKjE5243R67o4U

i saw a 25k+ sim yesterday with 3x SS

[spice surge]

@onyx rock https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qkAkRNCrsaKHL9onWT4NY

And this is your MA/Tb sim

[onyx rock]

Yes i know ^^

So the difference is not that big imo. I rather play something i enjoy and this is SS/exang...

[rustic ether]

hey guys just tried to sim a pornhub link, just fyi, nothing happens 😂

[honest vessel]

i macro'd toxicblade to vanish, but it doesnt seem possible to still get a mut/env/mut off like sim tables do, is it consistent? or ping based

[spice surge]

?

The sim doesnt get that of

[onyx rock]

I actually need something like raidbots for my real life

[spice surge]

Rogue gcd is always 1 second, so in a 3 second buff you cant get in 4 spells

[rustic ether]

you have to toxic blade before you vanish

[honest vessel]

when i was looking at it it toxic bladed and vanished at the exact same time

[rustic ether]

yes

....

but when you vanish, you start the 3 second timer

so you need to toxic blade AND THEN vanish to start the 3 second timer

[honest vessel]

so why does it work in sim for them to be used together, instead of tb first and then vanish on the next gcd

[rustic ether]

jesus