making it virtually nonexistent
#assassination
sand canyon
i enjoy so much this some ppl here shittalking me while i run 23s. eat it 💪
let the garrote spam begin guys hype hype 😉
strange python
yikes
steep obsidian
maybe they shit talk you coz you area bit of a cock, not because you are bad
sand canyon
@steep obsidian no its just train drama sad. im helpful and friendly to everyone who is to me. thats how its works also in RL. peace out discord
strange python
sound like a Babyrage to me
steep obsidian
¯_(ツ)_/¯
sand canyon
if u shittalk me, u have to be able to take it back. ^-^
enjoy ur evening guys im hyped 😄
honest onyx
hello, i have 2 daggers, one is lowe ilvl than other, does it matter if i have it in MH or OH? and Also, if i get upgrade and my MH will go into OH cuz its lower than upgrade one, do i need change my enchants? (Deadly + quick) aka does it matter also if you have deadly or quick on mh/oh?
steep obsidian
main hand dps is a lot
offhand dps is worth almost nothing
put the higher ilvl in main hand
hearty jetty
enchants in either hand are minimal, highest ilevel in main hand is very important.
honest onyx
ok, do better one in MH, but it doesnt matter much for ench? So if i swap MH into OH cuz upgrade i can keep ench dont need change both enchs right?
hearty jetty
correct.
hearty jetty
i mean it would be better if your best enchant was in your main hand, but the difference is minimal
so if you dont want to swap around enchants, you shouldnt
honest onyx
and how i know what is "best" enchant?
hearty jetty
by simming yourself
quartz rune
Stat weights
honest onyx
ah i see
desert kelp
earth link or azerite globules or blood siphon?
hearty jetty
probably blood siphon out of those 3. it'd be very close and very minimal gain from any of them. i'd just sim it.
desert kelp
can you sim without reforging?
desert kelp
oh
why have I never realised this exists
I would save so much time compare simming
xd
hearty jetty
yeah, it does.
honest onyx
and can you sim wthout selecting specific traits? (will it find best for you) ?
desert kelp
go to top gear and select the pieces you want to find them from by left clicking and you can select all traits
should I get 1x of double dose instead of 2x shrouded even tho sim does say shrouded
can't use shrouded as often in raids
difference is 17 damage so I suppose it's upto preference?
quartz rune
I mean sims calculate the uses of SS u have in Raids. If its just 17 dps its preference or comes Down to which boss you progressing atm i guess
leaden locust
since when 3 NPs are top sim on bloodmallet and herodamage? wasnt it 3 DDs on top?
quick ice
Recent discovery that NP scales with haste.
Pushes triple NP over triple DD.
Like <1week ago I think.
hollow junco
^ this is accounted for in the current simcraft build
hollow stone
Also worth noting that the stacking of np is represented in a misleading fashion. The first np has higher value. Dd is still better than 2nd and 3rd np. Look at the values each stacked trait gives and compare those numbers
(Or just sim yourself)
So no. Triple np is not better than 1 np and 2 dd
strange python
NP is also even more pure ST than DD. So might too much ST so you will lose dps
hollow stone
I mean, either way, if youre not using vend at a smart time to get full uptime youre screwing yourself for st. with or without np
thorn tartan
primal gazelle
I think musclebrah is one of the more entertaining streamers to watch compared to the other rogue streams
vestal wren
dad is quite nice
i should look at #rogue-streamers more to see who else is more regular there and has decent quality
golden relic
I guess seeing someone give out miss information could be considerd funny and therefor entertaining. Also just the blatant memes of statements he makes
wary ice
Rolled 2 415s between this week and last
https://www.wowhead.com/item=155860/spymasters-wrap&bonus=4817:1512 and https://www.wowhead.com/item=158364/high-altitude-turban&bonus=4817:1512
How fucked am i?
vast forum
U bought 2 helms?
wary ice
no
spice surge
Those are okay
spice surge
Just because they're not best in slot doesnt mean they're useless
wary ice
I'm mostly M+
primal gazelle
Entertaining value is a big factor to me 😂
wary ice
I just dont know how my aoe rotation works anymore
Do I mutilate or FoK on 2t? what about 3? w/2x dd/eb
vestal wren
i mean muscle runs rly high keyys, so he cant be that bad 😛
velvet kernel
anyone else have their toxic blade miss on pull?
vast forum
Muscle is good obviously
primal gazelle
Ike I only tune into flawless stream to hear shakib in the background 🤔
edgy pawn
anyone knows the azerite id of echoing blades? (like 408 is ss for example)
broken fiber
Musclebrah taught me how to exang on a taget with no garrote (:
primal gazelle
I mean he was clearly fucking around in the clip, only idiots would take that rotation seriously
vestal wren
🤷 does it matter
vestal wren
its quite funny how this topic comes up all the time, ppl like to repeat themself
cloud iris
With 2 to 3 EBs, is there ever a world where u'd want to run hidden blades or w/e its called instead of CT ? (M+ obviously)
cerulean walrus
Hidden blades is a meme
bleak spoke
Was discussing this with Seli recently and i think the conclusion was that while it’s not terrible it’s also not worth it
went and tried it anyway. With 2EB in single target it does actually does about as much as poison bomb, but I found myself using fok really unnaturally, trying to use it less to see it stack up etc, and the play style is 100% bad
can give it a try, maybe you’ll have better discipline than I do, but I only really wanted to use it cuz pbomb kept trolling me on some bolstering last week
cloud iris
Yea thaught so, dont really want to make it work was just wondering
hard pagoda
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
lone junco
@broken fiber Back when i did arena I would be targeting priest, they would vanish on me drop target, and my vendetta would go all willy nilly. Like on a beast hunter pet. probably explains my peak 1850 rating.
aka Exang on a target with no garrote.
copper kestrel
Should I hold vendetta/vanish for Lust if it's not used on pull?
lone junco
you mean like hold both until 30%?
negative.
only time you would delay, is if you know a mechanic will come up that will keep you from getting the opener off.
some shitty bosses phase and go immune if dps pushes too hard. but thats not the case right now.
if you are talking about a 2min or 4min vanish. then maybe.
it really depends on if you would Lose out on a cast. It doesnt hurt to delay a vanish/vendetta 20 seconds at the middle or end of the fight, if you would have never gotten another one. but any time you delay, and lose a combo. you fucked it up hard.
best way to know this, is to track time to death (TTD). Opulence as the exception cause of the buff ramps. if ttd is less than 2min. you know it will never come back around. so you can delay as needed. but dont delay so long that boss dies with vendetta on.
afk work. gl
fresh idol
what talent to chose in tier 5 for m+ and raid?
quick ice
I like iron wire.
sick cradle
Is there a good addon for tracking TTD, Noobe?
wary ice
Ironwire or Internal bleeding; imo; iron wire is a better catch all in m+
spice surge
Iron wire is better if you're doing hard things
Bleeding is better if youre going for speed
Since IB does massive damage
fresh idol
yea my thoughts are likewise
copper kestrel
@lone junco Is there an addon for time-to-death?
Gonna try out:
https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/death-clock
https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/time-to-die
unreal notch
whats a good amound of haste
honest onyx
Heya, are you using any AoE traits for M+ or you just go with ST equip for raids?
strange python
Depends on key level id say.
honest onyx
can you tell me more about this 😄
strange python
Well, if you're only doing a 10 for weekly and no more m+ why bother forge for an easy key?
If you are gonna push some keys, youd wanna reforge to maximize your performance
honest onyx
i am not talking about reforge, i have some spare azerite with AoE traits
EB for example
primal gazelle
Posted this last night and I'll repost it.
HB should not have an effect on your AOE rotation. Over the duration of 20 secs, having 20% every 2 seconds adds the same exact value as 200% every 20 seconds. You do NOT need to "save" up the stacks for this to give value. Simple math really.
You need MINIMUM 3 EB + Massive Crit to use HB > PB/CT
With HB, my average FOK hit is 5.8 - 6.2k ish
without it, it averages for 3.8-4.2k ish, that's about a 50% increase in overall FOK damage. (Go through my logs and check my averages if you like)
I had 14M in FOK dmg in this 19 Underrot, if i didnt use HB, at 4k dmg per hit, my fok damage would be at 9m instead of 14m. That's 5m in damage added just from HB. Without HB, my total overall dmg would be (59.4m - 5m = 54.4m. Therefore, HB boosted my overall damage by 9.2%. Which is significantly more than Poison bomb.
Ya'll can test this using your own wcl numbers but for me it's definitely an increase. Take your FOK damage, multiply by 50%, if that number is higher than your overall PB damage, then take HB. If not, then you either don't have 3 EB or enough Crit to use the build
strange python
Ah, well then @honest onyx EB is lovely for m+ for example.
echo geyser
Is it worth playing assa with 2 EB or do u need to have 3 to be able to compare to outlaw in m+ fortified?
And do u always keep up EP when using EB traits in aoe? i.e using Ruptures or CT every 5 sec
round harbor
Sin isn't bad in m+. It can compete but its not that same as outlas
Sin brings a different tool kit
echo geyser
Yeah i know, its necrotic week so a slow would be quite helpful, the question is can u still time the high keys cause of "lower" trash dmg
round harbor
Define higher.
echo geyser
20 to 22
round harbor
Some of the highest keys are done by sin rogues
in that range there is only like 3 teams that are pushing keys and one of them is a sin rogue
echo geyser
do u still keep EP up or do u spam FoK when CT is up and having EB traits
round harbor
are you asking me or what he does
cause he almost never runs ct
ct is a jebait imo
but thats just my opinion
echo geyser
u mean u run PB in Reaping?
round harbor
for sure
lost horizon
@primal gazelle your paragraph there neglects the impact of varying pack sizes
round harbor
and yet, the highest sin rogue in the world atm.... doesnt run ct
pb is more than fine since your dmg profile is just shifted
instead of more ct dmg its high for fok/eb/and rup
primal gazelle
the average pack size there in that log count is FOK Hits / Fok Cast = 5 targets
lost horizon
Logs probably fine, but stating that it shouldn't impact rotation at all is iffy imo
lost horizon
If you're finishing off a pack of 3-5 before reaping, it's def worth saving
primal gazelle
well im not doing that, and its still giving me 50% additional dmg
over the course of the dungeon vs non-hb
the thing is reaping doesnt always come together, it may come in waves, and you dont wanna lose valuable gcds by saving for HB stacks
when you couldve been spamming fok
round harbor
also i tihnk part of your research is flawed in the amount of people logging
if every outlaw rogue logged keys youd see how much "easier" it is to do 30k in ur
for example
lost horizon
Chadlaw
round harbor
sure your build is nice, but its very niche
primal gazelle
30k logs is very different than 30k details though 😛
round harbor
even sin without hb memes can easily do 30k in that dungeon
primal gazelle
this was close to 40k dps in details
echo geyser
So is the correct way to keep up EP in aoe with EB traits or do u keep spamming FoK for dmg
primal gazelle
logs calculate total damage of dungeon divided by time of dungeon = DPS
details only counts damage done in combat
my details for this run was 39k dps ish
primal gazelle
good enough to make up for 10k dps variance i suppose
primal gazelle
or do a key with me 😃
primal gazelle
@echo geyser im doing the math on that, will tag you when its ready
fading wigeon
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
round harbor
whats your crit value at
primal gazelle
41% with food buff
primal gazelle
excluding my mekka crit trinket
its like 2100 ish
with mekka at max stacks is about 46%
round harbor
with or without trinket
primal gazelle
2100 without trinket
round harbor
ok thats pretty exetreme aswell
storm pilot
primal gazelle
its an extremely high end niche build and its hard to get the gear for it but its definitely the highest overall aoe dps build possible for sin
only way to compete against u dirty outlaws
copper kestrel
What're people doing on Conclave during raptor add phase? I keep my dots rolling on the Boss. Not sure on what's best to do with adds that die in <10s. Should I be garroting / low-cp rupturing? Just mutilating and envenoming?
round harbor
yeah i dont think i could hit that
im like 1200 without gemming/enchanting so probly like 1600 if i swapped over
primal gazelle
most of my pieces are 400 base tho, just gotta run the dungeons that drop high crit gear and hope for socket forges
round harbor
surprised u arnt running deadeye or razzashi
primal gazelle
im only 404 ilvl
primal gazelle
deadeye is too big brain for me
this mekka trinket is already annoying for me to use lol
primal gazelle
i kinda forget to use it half the time
round harbor
so you donjt even have to hit the mob its on for full uptime
primal gazelle
but you have to hit the target it procs on no?
round harbor
yes
primal gazelle
oh really
round harbor
but it procs on fok
primal gazelle
does fok count as a hit?
civic forge
any cleave or even dots keep dead eye going
civic forge
deadeye is brain dead lol
primal gazelle
idk if thats better than mekka or plume though, i wish sims could tell me but its not optimized well for my build
round harbor
i mean
drop plume
for deadeye
and save the mekka for reaping or mongo shit
and ur fine
civic forge
mekka trinket doesn't seem that good to me, compared to deadeye
primal gazelle
im doing this super complicated formula spreadsheet to determine if EP is worth keeping up on aoe with 3 eb, kms lol
round harbor
and is ur computer a potato or just dont wanna set up twitch
primal gazelle
i dont care for twitch
round harbor
jusat spend like an hour setting it up lol
i just hit one button and im streaming and one button and its off
i can do it with you later if u want
its good for when we were pushing keys and i can see what we did wrong/right/memes
idc about the viewer count n shit
primal gazelle
hmm ill consider it
civic forge
does your toon have the gear on that you used in that UR run? i'd like to see your gear
primal gazelle
just look at summary tab
civic forge
i have mostly crit items and i'm no where near 2100 lol
primal gazelle
has my gear
civic forge
i'm assuming your disc name is the same in game?
primal gazelle
civic forge
thanks
primal gazelle
- i got a socketted crit glove from that run so i have even more crit now 😄
round harbor
Ok brb 40 minutes gotta drive to next class
civic forge
i'm assuming those weapons just happen to be you're best, and you're not using them because they have crit?
spice surge
How would higher crit favor hidden blades more though, it should be the opposite. Since getting more cp=more pb
primal gazelle
im using them because they have high crit
theyre the highest crit daggers available atm
civic forge
right but you don't have like 405+ weapons you're not using right?
primal gazelle
crit procs more EB, which gives FOK a higher DET than the rest of your finishers
civic forge
cause i havea 410 non crit dagger, don't think it'd be worth farming a 400 crit weapon
primal gazelle
indirectly it does, if your crit isnt high enough, and your fok DET isnt stronger than CT/ruptures/envneoms then you shouldnt be spamming FOK to take advantage of HB
spice surge
You dont need to spam fok to get damage from HB though?
primal gazelle
well if your overall fok dmg is only 5m due to low crit and other factors, then a 50% boost of that is only 2.5m, which might be less than what you gain from pb/ct
but if your fok dmg is 15m, then a 50% boost to that is massive
spice surge
?
The EB proccs (ie not the base damage increase)
doesnt get increased from hidden blades
Thus having more crit wouldnt make hidden blades better
primal gazelle
I know it doesnt
spice surge
Im not saying youre wrong about hidden blades, it might very well be ok
Im saying that "crit makes hb even better" has no actual logic behind it
heavy skiff
primal gazelle
Higher crit = FOK becomes higher DET spell due to more EB Procs. This makes FOK > Evenom/CT/Ruptures. Allows for more FOK spam, boosting your 5m fok damage to 10m.
HB will boost your 10m fok damage to 15m, a gain of 5m.
primal gazelle
If low crit then fok = not worth casting over envenoms/ruptures/ct, then your FOK damage will be low. a 50% boost to a low fok is not worth using
am i making sense? lol
cobalt gyro
I mean, with EB traits FoK does more damage than mutilates so even on 2 targets you'll be casting that
sturdy python
I think the more logical way to say it is once fok becomes more valuable to cast than finishers then hb is the only option.
Idk if that’s true or not but that’s essentially what you’re claiming
spice surge
Yes but not really dayv, since getting more crit will also significantly increase your pb damage
primal gazelle
you can easily just take your overall FOK dmg. *.5 multplier, if this number is higher than your PB damage, then take hb, otherwise, dont
Here's an example that i used PB
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Nbj49KJzXAP2YgBV#fight=6&type=damage-done&source=14 in a 12 Atal,
My avg Fok damage is 4.4k without HB
and my PB dmg is 1.1m
spice surge
That has nothing to do with what i was asking
I wasnt asking wether pb or hb is better
primal gazelle
Overall FOK dmg = 5m. 50% of that if I used HB wouldve given me 2.5m additional overall damage.
2.5m > 1.1M from PB
spice surge
I was saying i dont think crit scales better for hb than pb
civic forge
are we just argueing pendantics?
sturdy python
Why would you do 50% of your fok damage?
primal gazelle
because thats how much HB added to my average fok damage, using my own logs
from 3.8-4.2 ish to 5.8-6.2k on average
you can test this using your own numbers
sturdy python
I’m just saying that’s very anecdotal. HB increases fok damage by 20% every 2s. Seems odd it would somehow increase it by 50%
Unless it’s being capped throughout a dungeon
kind steppe
hoy I just switched to MA since I got a new azerite piece, can I know what is a basic opener for MA ?
fading wigeon
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
sturdy python
It’s very possible though depending on how high the stacks get in between big pulls and such
fading wigeon
@kind steppe
primal gazelle
because there will be times in the dungeon where youre at 20 stacks while running to the next pack, and you hit 5-6+ each with 30k fok hits
which pads up the average
my max fok crit for this 19 ur was 46k 😮
kind steppe
tk
why other rogues on logs do garrote > Mutilate > rupture > vendetta > Toxic blade > Envenom > ( so 2 cb envenom ) into burst with vanish ?*
strange python
Anyone know if the Droptimizer take into account TF's aswell, or only normal ilvl?
spice surge
Only normal ilvl
hollow stone
@kind steppe read the guide that was linked for you. Dont go off of logs
strange python
cheers
spice surge
Which logs have opened like that
hollow stone
Or you could just read one thing that is the correct answer
spice surge
There is no reason to do it like that, literally 0
kind steppe
That's actually just one, but flawless on grong there, or maybe it's just that I can't read logs well
That's the 3rd I check that does that
civic forge
about the "don't go off logs" comment. guides are cool and all, but logs are real data. logs are just as useful as "guides" are to learn from imo
hollow stone
No. They are not. Logs have mistakes. Guides and apl do not
spice surge
I assume this is the log you're looking at https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/X6Ja7qrB42FYVhLk#fight=7&type=casts&view=timeline&source=12
hollow stone
People make rotational errors, apl does not
civic forge
i mean that's assuming the apl is correct sure
spice surge
Go into casts and check timeline rather than damage
And you'll get a way clearer picture
hollow stone
Lol... the apl is going to be more correct than "some guy doing his own thing" 99% of the time. Your arg was terrible
civic forge
plus logs are just dps dummy tests. logs are real scenarios
spice surge
Well, you're either gonna be using "common sense" or simc to backup your claims, and when the claim in question is backed by neither of those
kind steppe
I'm just wondering about guide cuz not later than yesterday I was on the dh's guide to help him and we discovered the guide said shit bout it
hollow stone
Yea. If you want the intricacies of a specific fight, logs are great for that. But if youre looking for "the best opener in your gear" there is 1 answer
civic forge
i agree with that
my point was just factoring out logs as a learning tool is a dumb thing to say
strange python
It is kinda dumb tho
Logs is padded damage most of the time, i.e useless to compare yourself to
hollow stone
Fair. Misunderstood what i meant. I agree
Anyway, if you want to learn the best opener, logs are not the place to look unless youre looking for a specific opener for a specific encounter and even then, you gotta use common sense
lofty chasm
How good is it to stack Nothing personal. According to bloodmallet its the best trait?
vestal wren
the first trait gives you the biggest value gain
after that it depends on the traits you have, but best is to sim it
lofty chasm
Nothing personal vs Blightborne
hollow stone
Siiiiiiiim
wooden sable
Probably an already answered q but I get pulled out of stealth using vendetta now, and I am assuming it is because of nothing personal az trait
cobalt gyro
yes
hollow stone
You got it
wooden sable
Doest this change the usual opener or does it remain the same due to subterfuge talent?
does*
lofty chasm
ye blightborne was better for me. just thinking its only dmg for extra traits
wooden sable
and just to just sure I am doing it right its: vend - gar - rup - gar - mut - tox blde- env right?
hollow stone
Not even close
wooden sable
ugh
hollow stone
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
hollow stone
Back to the drawing board padawan
wooden sable
haha much appreciated brother
strange python
The force is strong within this one.
wooden sable
Oh shoot so no double garrote unless Shrouded suff is talented eh?
err azerite traited I mean
strange python
Kinda hard to double garrote when on CD 😄
hollow stone
Right you are, sir
wooden sable
Sorry I took a looooong break from wow, this is super helpful
strange python
Read the guide and you'll be good to go 😃
wooden sable
Mucho gracias 😃
hallow coyote
I respecced to Master Assassin yesterday after reading some of the chat in here yesterday and reliably topped the meters in my raid last night 👍 thanks 
folks ha
dull osprey
When I finally replace all of my SS perks, will MA become better than subter?
strange python
Sim yo self.
hallow coyote
Most likely, but yeah check it out with SimC
idle ember
Been wanting to try MA but the fights that allow multiple SS outweigh the single target for the minor dps loss. Grong is a big one. Maybe when I get enough extra 415s to have enough for both specs I'll play around for each boss.
silent silo
I've played with both ma and ss. Honestly it's just whatever you like better. I pull basically the same numbers with both and you see both on the top of wowlogs
quasi pewter
all the later bosses are pretty much pure single target so if ur progressing those its kinda irrelevant how good ss is on farm bosses
round harbor
@idle ember just for example. On grong it's easy to do more add dmg with MA than SS and subt
I smoked the rank 1 ss/subt parse on that fight for add dmg with my MA setup
And that's with him being wayyy higher ilvl
strange python
add dmg 😄
silent silo
Well yea your going to do a ton of damage to the adds if you want to blow vanish on it
cobalt gyro
I mean ss is a dead trait unless you have vanish for subt
round harbor
Ss is just a preference
silent silo
Well you only get use with ma with vanish also
round harbor
Sometimes useful, but not needed on any fight
true fulcrum
What’s the best way to maximize SS and vendetta usage on cleave fights like grong? You probably want to use vanish when bots spawn but you probably dont want to use vendetta on a bot that wont live for the full duration. Do you just save vendetta for when you go back on grong even though the empowered garrote has run out?
quasi pewter
use vendetta on grong yes
silent silo
The bots don't live long enough to blow a CD on them imo. So I dont hold anything for them
cobalt gyro
Only one I use on them is TB
ripe shell
where do I see which Titan Residuum vendor items are best for sin?
true fulcrum
Isnt it worth it to save vanish for bots when you have multiple SS?
strange python
Dont blow CD's on bots, they die too fast. Blow en on Grong
full duration garrote doesnt last on bots
or, shouldnt
quasi pewter
ideally for log you would just multidot the adds and got back to grong immediately and pop vendetta while ss garrote is still running
but who cares about logs
silent silo
You wont get your full bleed duration so its not worth blowing vanish on them
idle ember
They do on my raid, probably why I top dmg that fight.
cobalt gyro
You might if you use it on the add you kill 2nd
Probably not worth for just that tho
round harbor
I vendetta the adds cause fuckit
Miss a second or two of vendetta, but if I held for grong I'd likely miss a use of it
dull osprey
Okay, so I simmed myself if I got the pieces I wanted from normal and it said that I need 1 SS then a NP and a DD. Is the ideal (obviously it changes from stat to stat and encounter to encounter) loadout just 1 SS or stack SS to further capitalize on the buffed garrote?
silent silo
@round harbor everyone in your raid must not switch over because if I do that I would have probably 10-12 seconds left
dull osprey
I'm just confused on the mechanics of these traits I guess
spice surge
For ST you do not need 1 ss no
stable oxide
how is a 400 plumage better than 410 Azerokk's Resonating Heart?
spice surge
Because plumage is a good trinket and azerokk is a bad trinket
round harbor
spice surge
Wdym, one is random with an awful proc rate
round harbor
That's the log
stable oxide
Does Azerok procc less?
spice surge
One lines up perfectly with vendetta
stable oxide
Sorry
did I say plumage
I meant dice
So dice gives a random buff
And Azerokk gives Agility with static mastery
spice surge
Multiple random buffs*
stable oxide
Ah
spice surge
Which can stack on themselves
stable oxide
Okay there's my answer :p
Im sad though
bought my 3rd random azerite piece
Its shit :'(
stable oxide
got a bad trinket from the weekly
spice surge
Add dps on grong isnt overly relevant though
The first one needs to die in like ~20 seconds and the second one needs to die in like ~70 seconds
stable oxide
Main thing I do on grong to do extra damage overall is vanish, garrote the boss, shadowstep the add, garrote the add
Ofc, you need SS trait for that
But thats a pretty solid dps increase
And vendetta always on the boss
real bay
tfw you get gorak tul mantle on first try
obtuse surge
Hey guys. Just got a 425 galecallers boon, and where do i find the guide for how to use the trinket to max potential
floral loom
in pins
nimble tartan
itsbeen weeks of BoD and i havent seen a champions helmet
if i dont get one next week im offin myself see u never
idle ember
We put most of our dps on one grong add and myself and another melee on the other add for interrupts. I splash the first one with an empowered garrote, and 2x the second one before putting a rupture on the first and going back to the second. I'm interested in trying MA though. What's the sub-opener (?) for the two adds?
round harbor
L @nimble tartan same. I missed farm last week when two dropped who didn't need it
Luckly engi helmnis pretty good too though
nimble tartan
Yeah its not too bad
nimble tartan
I only need like 2 more things from mythic
brave gyro
(still no helm btw, 
)
civic forge
@primal gazelle you still around?
primal gazelle
sup?
civic forge
so i have the choice to run a 410 non crit dagger or run a 400 of the daggers you have, you'd still use a 410 non crit dagger if you had one right?
primal gazelle
id use the 410 tbh
civic forge
ok. just wanted to make sure
primal gazelle
its oaky to sacrifice for crit, just not "too much"
downgrading by 10 ilvls to use crit is a bit excessive unless the lower piece has a socket
civic forge
i figured
round harbor
And on main hand only most likely
Off hand is mostly a stat stick
As far as his build assumes
civic forge
i have a 405 of his dagger, but i managed to get a 2nd of the dagger he is using too
so i'd have either have 410 non crit/405 crit or use 2 crit weapons with 405/400
static hedge
Agi or bursting blood pots for purely single target fights?
static hedge
I was talking to Undaddy and he was saying BB for single target but agi for multi target.
Was curious as to what the rest thought about that
round harbor
For outlaw yeah for sure. IDK for sin
static hedge
Hmm I’ll have to sim for sin then.
primal gazelle
estimating?
rigid mango
Would you value 2nd NP higher or lower than a TC?
dapper moat
with opulence opal, how many fok attacks u need to do so that u get max stacks?
wary ice
p sure u get full benefit of opal damage increase from 1
nimble tartan
yup just hitting them once will suffice for damage stacks
wooden sable
Other than Mr. robot and simming is there any other quick and efficient way to optimize gear/az traits?
wooden sable
Roger, thank you @nimble tartan
onyx rock
O _O
nimble tartan
yeah like 26k+ with galecallers, but i dont use gale so im like 25,960 without
lone junco
Big brain damage
nimble tartan
i legit got 6 upgrades last night
wooden sable
Thats pretty hawt
lone junco
I got 3 on hpal. Rogue is bench for now.
nimble tartan
got new belt, new hands, new ring (heroic), back, trinket, boots from my cache
lone junco
And holy shit it's hard for hpal to compete vs holy priest right now.
marble elm
wtf
marble elm
yea
nimble tartan
i just hacked the game u get new chest soon
marble elm
ty ty
its big uppie
i got these shoulders yesterday and it was actually like 600 simdps
nimble tartan
yeah they are nice
i had those and highrolled shoulders from the vendor so i had a better 2nd trait for jaina but is tc that bad for jaina? cause you're probably running it there right
marble elm
im using it yea
its prob not the greatest but it seems to have like 90-95%+ uptime on positive and 0-1% uptime on negative
nimble tartan
that seems p good then
i got waycrest shoulders, has dd and np/blightborne
im using blightborne shit cranks bro u really feel the POWER
odd hatch
What ilvl are you guys to be swimming so high Jesus. I have nearly optimal azerite and trinkets but sim 22.8k, granted I'm 402
marble elm
josh has those too 
nimble tartan
he usin blight or np
marble elm
np i think
halcyon falcon
@nimble tartan I have the same helm and shoulders you're running, but I'm specced with SS and subt, have you noticed the benefit of running master assassin and dropping SS?
nimble tartan
yeah im still debatin but i love how blight feels
like it procsand im fuckin crittin every mut
marble elm
MA for life brother
nimble tartan
fuck
halcyon falcon
I agree...blight feels good
nimble tartan
np only sims like 50dps lower though and its def the more consistent one, but i think triple dd with blight prob real good
@halcyon falcon i dont like subterfuge in this raid at all
halcyon falcon
reason?
marble elm
i was doing 29k on jadefire with ma and then i got hard trolled and we got the 3rd dance
marble elm
i dont think its good either
very rarely does the damage from cleaving with subterfuge feel important
imo atleast
halcyon falcon
I"m wondering if I'm losing dps by running subt and SS by trying to keep it on too many ads...and I should "tunnel" with MA the priority targets more than multi dotting
grave elk
Does dh magic bonus dmg apply to our poisons?
nimble tartan
and like u lose just a lot of rasta damage compared to going full st build
and the add damage is pretty irrelevant imo
u wont reach those nice thiccie numbers for logs its def better as sub
but me no care
grave elk
In rasta what can you multidot? Besides opening guards
halcyon falcon
so essentially i'm benefitting from MA by going with the extra DD trait and ditching SS...(sidenote: I wish sub more performing better in this raid..I love the spec)
marble elm
the adds in p2 but those are pretty irrelevant too
nimble tartan
3 double dose is gonna be better most likely but u can simmie
grave elk
1 NP trait has made my opening rotation feel so good
I have 3SS 1NP and 1DD and I wish I could drop an ss for another double or nothing personal
misty remnant
i see, i already have 3x nothing personal and i feel its not good as DD
lone junco
I'm on the ma train for a bit. 3dd
grave elk
I’ve never run master assassin so idk how it works
It’s just bonus crit dmg on your main target?
halcyon falcon
IIRC, running MA opener is garr > mut > rup > vendetta > vanish > toxic blade right??
nimble tartan
yeah its liek 50% extra crit for 3 secs after vanish
strange python
i am not sure about the toxic blade
nimble tartan
it changes dpeending on how many traits you have
strange python
i would use it before vanish
misty remnant
if i have 3x NP - should i pick Twist the knife over SS?
i know i should sim it, just curious
marble elm
depends what talents u are playing
halcyon falcon
so with 3 DD we're saying vendetta > tb > vanish > mut >mut or finisher depending on CP?
strange python
finisher
nimble tartan
cause the vanish into tb is used cause its like a secure damage. cause u can tb mut env its a little more reliable. but with 3 dd your muts actually do a lot so you're ok having your MA buff being env mut env or env mut mut
strange python
im pretty sure you have 4 cp after the first mut
nimble tartan
i think its pretty close regardless
strange python
yeah
unkempt tangle
primal gazelle
Who's ready for my super duper niche and completely unnecessary spreadsheet on when to cast FOK vs Envenoms(For EP Procs or with TTK Traits)?
Input your own stats in the box and find out!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IWvPyqa0qja-8-VnsBvzcbXHn5nunbCiu2JKceeM-RU/edit?usp=sharing
Make sure to click file--> Make a copy to create your own template
lone junco
Ooo. I'm ready.
primal gazelle
For me personally with my stats, the break even point is at 6 targets
lone junco
I blocked discord on my work pc. Cause. Work. But I'll check it out in a bit.
primal gazelle
feel free to check my formulas/math/logic as well
lone junco
Probably an. Avg FOK given eb and HB. Vs. ttk env avg?
primal gazelle
yup, input your own envenom avg hit
lone junco
That's easier than assuming pb glory.
primal gazelle
it calculates damage added by EP via all your abilities as well
lone junco
What's your number. 8T?
lone junco
If ep is up. And 15 if ep is not up
halcyon falcon
@primal gazelle I'm also on A52 my man! let me check out your write up
lone junco
Lol. G g g r. FOK r^4. Then. fokfokfok env. Then fokfokfokfok env. For ep clipping?
primal gazelle
you can change the target number to whatever
lone junco
I'd believe an ep clipping solution exists.
round harbor
So it's the point in rotation where you have 5 ruptures active and 6+
Active. So like fh and ml
primal gazelle
yea, input your own stats and target and see if its worth it for you
round harbor
Can't imagine getting 5 ruptures on too many reapings
primal gazelle
i assuming infinite ruptures on reaping as well, youre supposed to snipe low hp ones for full energy bar back
but the damage added by EP in the chart does assume 5 ruptures out
lone junco
It's ok if this is a small niche solution. We could overcap cps In legion with pk and 4p21.
Fokfokfok env. Vs FOK env FOK env.
fluid mist
sick 4 weeks of coining and looting first 2 bosses no loot
got helm and shoulders in the same raid now
MA build here i come.
lone junco
Should probably lock it and have people make a copy.
true gyro
killed opulence 6-7 times, coined the same. Nothing. Done 20+ m+ runs and nothing
primal gazelle
everything is locked except for the input table
twin kite
Hey rogue friend, i have a question. When i got a question. When i sim a go beyond 1050 haste the sim tel me to put crit or mastery is it normal?
fluid mist
So while running MA i got the opener down which is pretty easy but what is ideal for second vanish/vendetta window?
lone junco
Sim has big brain. You need mastery to scale your bleeds. You need crit to gen cps. Haste is energy. So that's the point of the stat weights. To balance.
fluid mist
pop vendetta vanish toxic blade mut env mut env?
twin kite
@lone junco Okay so sim is always true x')
round harbor
Yes and no
lone junco
Not necessary. Depends on proper fight style.
fluid mist
it feels weaker then subterfuge with ss traits 😛
round harbor
Sims can lie to you
lone junco
And weights suck.
lone junco
We sim actual available gear. And sim the enchant swaps. The results always need sensitivity review.
abstract plume
I looked through the guide and couldn't find the answer to this. At how many seconds does Rupture become stronger than envenom. IE if an add will only live for 10 seconds is it worth using 1 CP and a global to apply rupture or should I just save it for envenom?
round harbor
When it says 4.4k search results is that only sin or all the discord
sturdy python
All
lament dove
wtf is this meticulous scheming trait, it procs maximum once per fight and you have to fuck up your rotation to proc it again... ruinous bolt chest last time, now this garbage... wonderful lootsystem
hollow stone
Its a bad trait, dems the breaks
civic forge
@abstract plume sim what your rupture's dps is, then divide that damage by the avg hit of your env, for me my avg env is 26905, and dps of rup is 2190. so it would take 13 seconds of rupture time to outdamage an env
abstract plume
perfect, thanks
hollow stone
You need to account for the energy still
And typically the gcd that could have been used (if youre in a gcd-locked situation, which sin usually isnt)
Energy gained per tick of rupture vs energy spent diff between rupt and env (if there is one, i think they are the same but idk)
Its not an easy calculation
fluid mist
Having ss traits makes our rotation a lot more fun lol
abstract plume
probably gunna be a miniscule gain unless you can get a full 3 CP rupture in
hollow stone
Meh, keep in mind unused rupt ticks still give the energy in a lump sum when the enemy dies
If youre talking st, keep rupt up at all times
lone junco
@abstract plume it depends. When a mob dies with rupture it feeds e back based on duration remaining. So it's not zero sum.
hollow stone
Unless youre questing and it dies in like 10 sec or less
abstract plume
I see
hollow stone
So yea, it makes sense why you couldnt find an answer. Cause the answer is complicated af with tons of "if/then" variables
lone junco
That's why we g g g. Then tab out 4-5 R. Then do something else. Because at that point the value of rupture diminishes. Due to e cap.
It still does a lot of damage. If they live long. And still procs pb. And still applies EP.
Unless you have scent traits. Then you tab all of them (8x ish)
hollow stone
Nah, you still softcap at energy cap even with sob. At least, last time we discussed it you did. Which is 5
lone junco
Sure but the monster agi boost to white FOK values the tabbed ruptures.
But no one is running 3scent over 3eb.
hollow stone
I have no person experience or simming so just going on what others have said for rupts w sob
You prob right
abstract plume
the amount refunded is retroactive to cost?
lone junco
If you plan to sustain you better be rupturing.
civic forge
like you'll get less energy back if it was like 3 seconds left on rupture when it dies, than if it died with 15 seconds
lone junco
Garrotes after subterfuge are limp though.
hollow stone
You get energy per tick of rupt on a mob that is poisoned. Let's say it's 5 energy per tick and you have 20ticks (these numbers are made up). If it expires half way through, you will get a lump sum of (10 ticks left) then you get 10*5 = 50 energy back
abstract plume
and that is purely based on time left, like if I drop a 3 CP rupture that lasts 16 seconds and it dies at 4, I'm only getting 4 seconds worth of the max 5cp duration refund or am I getting a 25% refund because my original rupture was 16 seconds
hollow stone
Number are made up, explanation is sound
lone junco
Worth maintaining your ruptures so you can FOK In Cleave.
Obviously this is irrelevant on trivial content where it dies in 3sec.
Or with 1000 mobs.
hollow stone
So to answer your original question anecdotally, maintaining rupt even if its not going to last for the full duration is good and you should do that
lone junco
😉
hollow stone
MA and subt are very close even without ss
hollow stone
Maybe he likes world pvp and not changing talents
proud spruce
well i mean, he said 'finally 24k dps', seems like he was trying to sim high
just curious
abstract plume
yeah I'm talking about situations where the siren spawns on blockade and only lives for like 10 seconds, is it worth rupturing or should I just forego rupture. In a situation where I need to get as much possible damage on the add in those 10 seconds
proud spruce
but yeah, i super fuck up my rotation without** subt atm. Its definitely losing me more than .6% atm
hollow stone
I wouldnt rupt the sirens
lone junco
Don't need to rupture stuff in st for e back to do an env elsewhere.
abstract plume
Alright thanks.
ripe nimbus
5/7
keen pumice
Does anyone know what the exact range of "Crush" is on Opulence mythic?
fallow estuary
Anyone here simming 25k+ who could link me his sim?
@latent sigilran why do you have agility socketed?
fallow star
does anyone know the addon that streamers are using that is displaying there haste/crit/mastery/vers on screen?
sick cradle
Probably just a weakaura?
ruby idol
fallow star
❤
hollow stone
@rigid sonnet definitely a perfect 5/7, agreed. @keen pumice google should, thats not sin specific
rigid sonnet
thanks for feedback
hard estuary
gorak tul's > blightborne infusion or Nothing Personal?
round harbor
NP imo
It's reliable from pull to pull
High rolling on BI is really good though too
real bay
depends on your other azerite
pastel vault
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oiGf8H4QjHHvr3AFPNzEEP blightborne isnt bad ^^
round harbor
Yeah it's good, I had it all of uldir. It's just inconsistent
If it proceed at good times I was yeeting if it proceed once a fight I was reeeing
round harbor
OP?
spice surge
Getting the best in slot pieces from your first two buys 🤔
ruby idol
wait do i actually have to do TW BT?
round harbor
Yes or else
copper kestrel
I have a wall of (formatted) multitarget M+/Raid assassination questions. Is this the right place? The guide seems to be in contrast with the ealier convo
round harbor
Celp is ttk, spymaster is np/dd
lone junco
@ruby idol is there a mongo crit trinket from BT or something?
cobalt gyro
The dagger from illidan
round harbor
And the raid shoulders and helm offer ways of not stacking np
crude stag
yo if i dropped galecallers boon after i did my garrote rupture opener would the dots take on the haste value of the trinket
round harbor
So to me spymasters is bis
cobalt gyro
The proc was very strong in uldir so unless they changed it, it's bis
hollow stone
@copper kestrel yes. Heres the spot
sturdy python
It’s dynamic @crude stag . Yes whole boon is up they will and it’ll go away after
lone junco
Neat. 4p20 2ss. Bracers. Soul capacitor.
crude stag
tnx
lone junco
Sephuz lols on the SS exang.
copper kestrel
Righteo
Re: The FoK Convo. The pinned guide seems in contrast with the earlier convo. I'm a little confused on how to put it into practice.
For large, long-living packs (M+ & Rastakhan)
Garrote: At what target number do I ignore the guide's "garrote if it will live long enough" and spam FoK?
Rupture: How many active ruptures does it take to sustain FoK spam? Is there a target number at which I should just spam FoK and only rupture for the energy and/or EP?
For single, short-lived adds (Conclave Raptors, Blockade Sirens)
Garrote/Rupture: Is there a TTK at which it no longer makes sense to DoT?
<4cp Ruptures: Do they ever make sense? Or because of venomous wounds, should it always be 4+?
For Conclave Raptors: Should I be multidotting or just tunneling them down?
I get our (simple) ST/Cleave rotation. (Jadefire/Gronk parses are great.) But my multitarget game is hot garbage.
spice surge
@round harbor Spymaster has shitty t3 traits
Ceph has overwhelming power
It sims a fair bit better
Cant just look at the 2 outer traits
Or well actually, the pvp chest is truly bis because it has prydaz trait instead of gemhide as fourth and otherwise the same traits as ceph
round harbor
Bis first two traits I guess is what I meant to say
The t3 is fairly minor in difference
And also prydaz on it
spice surge
Depends on how you define minor, i sim 200 more with ceph than spymaster
round harbor
Ye Im driving ATM so I can't simt but I'll Sim when I do get home
Like I said it also gives me a 3dd and 1np situation
Whereas I'd have to pick up my first np elsewhere otherwise
spice surge
Ideal setup is champ/blockade helm, gorak tul shoulders and ceph/pvp chest
round harbor
But I'll sim it to see
Yes I'm running engi helm atm
And scuffed jadefire shoulders only 400 lol
fluid mist
can somebody be so kind to take a look at this grong log? First time playing MA. Would be very much appreciated to get Some pointers what to improve!
mighty elm
Any assa Simming over 25.5 or 26k?
lone junco
some
golden relic
what do u mean over
royal lantern
405 GCB ❤
mighty elm
Hm Thats sick
royal lantern
btw guys, somone else has problems with afenar's WA after todays update?
strange python
ye
dark crag
I have simple wa buttons for like tb and stuff. After today's update the desarture stays long after the spell came of cd
lethal mauve
Hi guys galecallers change open whith TB or I just use it before vendetta only
fast nacelle
spice surge
Prob gonna be able to reach around 28k with close to full bis
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
unborn root
Hero damage says that stacking nothing personal is the way to go now?
or do you just only want one?
civic palm
Look at the numbers > _>
sturdy python
The first trait is the strong one. If you scroll over the second and third stack you’ll see other traits are stronger
civic palm
Check 
, 
prisma carbon
can u immune the coin shower on mythic opulence with cloak?
sturdy python
No it’s physical
earnest token
in m+ should we always go with exsang or can we go TB depending on group comp
sturdy python
Tb is doable yes, couldn’t tell you where or when personally though
prisma carbon
People prefer exang over tb in m+ because you only get the benefit out of tb by attacking that specific target instead of aoeing
with exang, you can use it and swap to other targets
unborn root
Im really glad I got an ebin 'check the pins' answer. I did check the pins. I double checked the guide, blood mallet and hero damage. On paper, yes, it looks like stacking additional instances of Nothing personal is pulling ahead. As seen here https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/1t-t23-assassination
Literally all I'm trying to do is maximize my damage for mythic blockade. Sims aren't always entirely accurate, so I wanted some real world advice, that's all.
If you're going to be snarky, try to not have dogshit prog
royal lantern
well, sorry if i sound like a idiot now but
if you go like that you could think for yourself for a couple of seconds....
stacking NP will make your cd windows with vendetta ofc stronger if you need that too burst the mages on the ships better/the hero window later in the fight
DD has big value when you have a really high envenom uptime
unborn root
I just wanted to see if people could corroborate my answer, that's all.
royal lantern
NP gets more value when you have good haste and mastery etc....
sturdy python
I answered your question exactly as you wanted. 1 NP is strong, the second and third are around even or worse compared to DD and other traits
royal lantern
its situational because i dont know how you do the fight
sturdy python
Past that the correct answer is to sim yourself
dark crag
royal lantern
you have a high uptime with envenom and on the boss? stack DD, you need too focus on a CD window? stack NP, like i said, i dont know how you guys do the fight, if you need too soak everything wich gimps your uptime etc.....
unborn root
I got it covered. Thanks fam
mossy adder
The one in the ravenholdt guide is totally fine for ST
round harbor
@spice surge https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6UVeuW75Ux4AQjRU8Gkyr5 yeha ceph jacket is for sure not better than spymasters, for me atleast
white basalt
Any tips for H Stormwall? Starting program in a bit
thorny pivot
anyone want to dig through some logs and give me feedback?
I know I had some avoidable deaths, and Im working on trying to get better bleed uptimes, but i really feel liek there is a big thing im missing and i don't know what it is. I got some more gear and now specced into MA so I'm planning on chaning my opener to wahts in the guide.
<< Neondice
wooden fog
stable pine
@thorny pivot meh I think you need to reread the guide. I mean your uptime on g and r is like 22% lol
thorny pivot
I don't see anything that low?
wow analyzer sad G was over 80 and r over 90 on most of my pulls
stable pine
Also you don’t have SS so I would run with MA
thorny pivot
Yes, i noticed that and have made that change
last i had simmed it the difference was only.1 but after my last sim it was a bigger difference
spice surge
Yes, it seems like you're mostly between 80-90%
But you should be 95%+ on both
But tbh the most important thing to improve on is dying less
thorny pivot
Okay I'll keep that in mind
spice surge
While it might sound negligable to have 10% more uptime, those percent add up to A LOT of extra energy which you can use to do other things with
And the damage is also relevant ofc, but the energy gains are important
upbeat dirge
PB or CT for this weeks affixes?
brisk frost
i dont get how you guys sim so fcking high. i mean i do have quite "low" ilvl, but i have good azerite pieces and alot sockets
anyways, heres my sims. do you guys recommend me to switch some additional SS traits, or keep the highest sims?
every logs have duplicate SS's
lone junco
isnt Kimbuls razor pretty bad?
brisk frost
yeah but i've had worst luck with trinkets. been grinding m+'s whole tier, but nothing
lone junco
seems ok for the ilvl. the people around 25.5k are 411+
brisk frost
should i stick to 1x SS and 1x NP or sacrifice some DD's for extra SS's?
spice surge
For ST SS isnt very strong, DD is certainly better
brisk frost
okay thats quite stupid question since everything is situational ofc
anyways every boss but mekka has atleast some cleave
brisk frost
mm neither does mekkatorque
spice surge
Conclave doesnt have anything you can meaningfully vanish SS, nor does opulence
brisk frost
mm i guess im just sticking on 3x DD's. we're going rastakhan next, and i could whore some dps there with SS's, but i guess it aint worth it afterall
royal lantern
Padding is great etc....but doesnt help sith actually getting the kill,always remsmber that
pulsar goblet
But the parse ..
spice surge
Rasta and blockade you cant really do much regardless, you just hit the boss and pray your ranged doesnt fuck up
royal lantern
And a good raidlead knows when you are doing actuall boss dps and when you just do stuff for good logs/be high on the meters
Or,the words of every single frking raidleader in this game: I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR DPS
steep obsidian
i mean if an add needs to die and killing it faster is good its not really "padding"
spice surge
Killing the add faster on blockade is padding though
because it doesnt need to die faster
It should die when it reaches the boss
spice surge
Blockade is the best example, because sirens needs to die asap
steep obsidian
padding is bursting down worthless adds and nerfing your st dps when they could have been efficiently by others
royal lantern
And taking SS in conclave just too do vanish 2x garrote on both bosses
spice surge
But the storm things, if you kill them too fast it just means you need to kill them more often
steep obsidian
ss is not even that far behind dd on full single target and it just plays better
¯_(ツ)_/¯
1 ss even
fleet whale
DD is def better for st but SS is more than servicable if you are missing DD traits
steep obsidian
100 dps isnt a huge deal in the scheme of things
spice surge
Its a lot more than 100 dps though
Replacing all of the ideal pieces with pieces that have DD with SS instead with the default simc profile
I get about a 1.2k loss
Since you also have to take subt instead of MA
And even only swapping out one of the DD's for subt+ss is about a 550 dps loss compared to the ideal MA setup
steep obsidian
im not saying to run 0 dd im just saying dropping 1 for an ss isnt terrible
sims arent the be all and end all
if so everyone would be playing ma
and they arent
spice surge
Subt with 1 SS (https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wJxnTD6k6Wke5RJqN5iYd1)
Ideal setup MA (https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fC1y9xD27dQszKqLZm5k6b)
Full SS exsang (https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2mR4HBFqtwfe6XCT9pum5c)
Full SS tb (https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xw5HBk6tUKdcm47ADU1YXn)
Well people still think SS is good for ST 🤷
When it clearly isnt when there arent multiple targets to garrote (which you cant do on any of the 3 hardest bosses this tier)
crude bay
I perform good on jaina mythic with subt and 2x SS?
chilly marsh
also DD does more dmg than mutilate for me
crazy
+-22% of all my dmg comes from those 2 traits
first time i note it
crude bay
i run 2x DD 2x SS 1x NP and Engi agi/haste trait
spice surge
Just because it works fine doesnt mean its optimal
I also preform good on jaina mythic and i have no ss 🤷
crude bay
OFcourse not, but it can still be good without being optimal
it is good
its just not optimal
something cant be optimal when something else is, but it can still be good
spice surge
If we're arguing whats best
crude bay
i just comment on what you wrote
crude bay
And i say it is, you state it isnt
steep obsidian
he says as he argues
crude bay
you said "people still think SS is good for ST"
steep obsidian
i said its more fun to play and its not 600 dps for me
spice surge
Obv depends on how you define "good"
fleet whale
you're not going to kill your raid if you have to use SS over DD, not everyone is gonna have the ideal set up
steep obsidian
¯_(ツ)_/¯
crude bay
Youre just contradictin yourself Eleem
I just call you on on the statement you wrote, that "SS isnt good on ST"
which it is
fleet whale
there is also an rng component to DD/MA while there really isn't for SS/Subt, which some people might prefer for progress
crude bay
its no way 30% stronger
quick ice
It's good it's just neither best nor great.
crude bay
When i compete on jaina mythic with ashine who runs MA and no SS
And i run 2x SS and subt
spice surge
30% as in the gain is 30% more, not doing 30% more damage
crude bay
and thats taken over 170 pulls
spice surge
I just linked you the sims
fleet whale
also, there are still a bunch of rogues who still use SS, whether out of preference or necessity and you can see a good amount of them still rank
crude bay
Yeah, SS+TB didnt sim that much worse than your optimal build yeah?
spice surge
1.2k
spice surge
?
crude bay
but you still state that SS is bad for st
crude bay
Yeah, saw that now, but can you still stand behind the statement that SS isnt good for ST?
spice surge
The full SS tb one (ie 3x SS and 3x NP) sims 25k
crude bay
The dmg in a 70 sec window between the two?
whats the difference, i havent checked sims
spice surge
Its decent but not good compared to NP and DD
fleet whale
yeah, but it's still viable
quick ice
I'm sticking with "good but not great"
spice surge
Now you're just arguing about our definitions of "good" and "viable" deing different
crude bay
I am arguing that you literally said
"Its not good for ST"
Because it is
its just not optimal
spice surge
🤷
quick ice
Unviable is like, SoB?
rustic ether
can we just go our serperate ways and stop spamming the server
steep obsidian
this argument is pretty dumb tbh
quick ice
This is what happens when rogues get bored tbh.
steep obsidian
my point was that its not a big dps hit for me in my gear and ma plays like utter shit compared to subt and ss
fleet whale
- DD is the best trait for ST 2. SS is not as good as DD, but still a viable option if you don't have DD traits
crude bay
i agree its dumb, and i guess ill apoligize, i think i pushed it a bit too far
steep obsidian
but of course if its not best you throw everything in the bin gotta min max
fleet whale
the end
crude bay
very unecessary argument
stable pine
What’s a burst window? Cause I saw a rogue bursted for 2mils
primal gazelle
LOL
steep obsidian
tru
stable pine
@primal gazelle why you laugh bro? Show me log