the 2nd and 3rd trait offers less than dd
#assassination
primal gazelle
quick ice
It's just stronger than initially believed.
crimson girder
It Sims less than TC for me. The second NP does
topaz crow
yeah same i've got a choice between TC and NP and BI and NP. I know i've seen some rogues bursting 100k+ with 3 NP and 1 trait does do some serious damage by itself
primal gazelle
rogues def do not burst for 100k
unless you got logs to prove
i got 3 dd 3 np and most is 50-65 range,
polar bridge
I burst 50k with dd3 tc2 np1
charred wedge
@polar bridge I love ur pic! My pally is Reginajorge!
ripe nimbus
3 NP 
polar bridge
😬😬
topaz crow
I've got 65k with with 2 SS 1NP and 1 DD+TC
primal gazelle
highest i got, 100k wont be very common imo
topaz crow
Never said it would be common just has been done lol and they were using 3 DD and 3 NP highest i've gotten my NP to hit for with 1 trait is 90k so if u stack em 300k in 20S or less would be some pretty insane damage from just 1 trait
should say a trait not 1 trait
pastel vault
you could try stacking a bunch of mastery and vers and lowish crit and just RNGing everything crit anyway for huge opener 😛
topaz crow
thats what were discusing ferevan lol
lone junco
@cerulean walrus use herodamage or sim yourself.
cerulean walrus
Yeah that's the thing, I'm looking at BM for a new 415 azerite piece
all of the shit is skewed with NP even though I have it lmao
primal gazelle
its easy to find outliers if you look at a data sample of 10k+ logs
dim wyvern
A
pastel vault
primal gazelle
dont know who that is sry
topaz crow
Hero damage is saying NP as well lol
fleet whale
nice
topaz crow
fereran DUDE IK i bought a 415 rando and got it just today lol
pastel vault
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6WfxtzFQRYrBDCvw#fight=20&type=damage-done&source=14 on mine he's peaking at 60k
cerulean walrus
I looked away as I opened it cause I had a feeling it was gonna be awful
fleet whale
i always look away when i open anything
topaz crow
yeah man opening shit is scary
primal gazelle
@lone junco LOL fake news
pastel vault
ya the zoom is fking with the dps
primal gazelle
thats doing 200k dmg for 1 global
pastel vault
https://gyazo.com/52ef281469afb9f39f923cf1e5479c76
we've hit 300k guys POG
primal gazelle
LOL
stoic sail
hey guys 😃 i have 2 NP 2 DD and my head has TC + either SS or DD 😃 what do u think i should go for on Single Target ? take one SS for Subterfuge or take 3rd DD and go for MA ?
primal gazelle
let me zoom in a log in a m+ run where i fok'ed reaping pack for 1m dps
fleet whale
i mean.... assassination has some pretty strong ST burst, especially on opener
copper kestrel
Hmmm. Do I add a 3rd DD or a 2nd TC. They sim ST the same. But I assume the TC is better on AoE (but harder for my healers)...
fleet whale
^
hollow stone
Just rephrase it "rogue can peak during burst to 100k". Discussion over
primal gazelle
you should work for trump
fleet whale
why are we getting worked up over this is the question
ripe nimbus
Yikes
primal gazelle
im sorry
youre right
rogues burst for 600k
as clearly shown in that zoomed in log that happened over 1-2 seconds
doing 100k for "one" second does not count as bursting for 100k sorry
pastel vault
no one says "bursts 100k dps" if you're talking about a single second of damage
-_-
primal gazelle
in that case, do mages burst for 300k because their ice lance hits once?
primal gazelle
thats not bursting though
pastel vault
"burst" would be duration of vendetta or duration of lust
fleet whale
i always count bust as the highest damage i see on my dps meter
pastel vault
does any rogue do 100k/sec for 20 seconds? no
primal gazelle
^ that too
fleet whale
burst*
pastel vault
not even close
primal gazelle
making a claim that rogues burst for 100k because you did 100k for 1 second and 50k dps for the other 19 seconds does not count as bursting for 100k because your overall dps will still be 50k ish for that duration
pastel vault
I mean now you're just lying
polar bridge
grab vod then
primal gazelle
pretty sure we were on the topic of 3 NP and ST bursting
now youre tryna include aoe dps in dungeons
polar bridge
no one is sustaining 100k for more than 10 sec
primal gazelle
lmao
vital haven
jeez im pretty sure no one can sustain 100k dps for more than like 2 secs prob
are we talkling ST?
pastel vault
yes we are corn
lone junco
yall bonkers.
vital haven
which class can even burst for 100k on ST?
cerulean walrus
Mage
vital haven
highest ive seen is like 90k but thats cleave
spice surge
Demo locks can get close
primal gazelle
this was the original claim, why are you trying to bring up seli and his aoe dps?
polar bridge
if we're talking aoe then 100k is trash aoe compared to what many classes can do
spice surge
But probably only 75-80kish reliably
vital haven
yo lets go back to basics
bring me a pic of someone bursting 100k in ST
any class
i dont believe it
primal gazelle
scroll up, noobe linked a log LOL
doing 1 global for 100k dmg = bursting for 100k according to noobe
tiny arrow
I highly doubt that Noobe
primal gazelle
now youre just digging yourself into a hole
polar bridge
timber mauve
maybe burst is the length of lust? since that would be the most beneficial time period to push as much dps?
vital haven
it really doesnt a set definition
vital haven
usually it just means shit tons of damage don very quickly
primal gazelle
10/10 would recommend advice from noobe
polar bridge
spriests burst for 400k :~)
timber mauve
i wonder if dh have good burst
primal gazelle
dh can aoe burst for 1m according to noobe
dont forget
1 second is all that matters
vital haven
ok calm down dude @primal gazelle
primal gazelle
nah bro im advocating for 100k rogue burst
copper kestrel
Should I be using an on-use trinket w/ a 1.5m CD on cooldown or lined up with Vendetta? (It's Yulon's/nature damage if it matters. Currently I use it on CD lined up with TB)
primal gazelle
i shouldnt had doubted u im sorry
topaz crow
blaq i would probably use that only with vendeta for the extra damage increase
if it even effects that trink? idk
best way to confirm is use vendetta and trink together and then use it without vendetta and compare
lone junco
sim will be using it on cd probably.
copper kestrel
oh look at that. unless training dummy has exactly 30% nature resist. Vendetta didn't buff the damage
topaz crow
well use it whenever than lol
topaz crow
welp looks like you got ur answer lol
copper kestrel
might sub in another trinket that sims -0.2% lower but is passive. Take a button off XD
Got a 410 Kul Tiran Cannonball Runner
topaz crow
could just macro it to use it whenever u hit an ability? kinda like how hunter has pet attack macro'd into every key
copper kestrel
Smart.
pastel vault
guys when I burst dps on 0 targets I cant get past 0 dps anyone have some tips?
Im supposed to burst 100k dps
primal gazelle
lmao i cant believe youre still tryna go at it
stoic sail
hey guys 😃 i have 2 NP 2 DD and my head has TC + either SS or DD 😃 what do u think i should go for on Single Target ? take one SS for Subterfuge or take 3rd DD and go for MA ?
pastel vault
so you're saying your statement is meaningless which I agree with
lone junco
correct.
Im mostly upset I got a cloak on my hpal.
yeee.
thats what Im talking about.
100k?
primal gazelle
this is more exciting than the time i challenged seli to a m+ overall dps match
pastel vault
ya I mean boss also has the ruby debuff and adds to funnel CP
primal gazelle
im in awe that youre using opulence logs to justify the 100k rogue st claim
must be desperate
right
ember forum
does Sin mastery apply to conclave trinket?
sturdy python
No starving
primal gazelle
hey guys look at me I CAN BURST FOR 2 MILLION WOOOOO
2M OVER .2 SECONDS
IT STILL COUNTS
pastel vault
it's weird that Y axis still says DPS and xaxis is moving in .2 seconds
primal gazelle
gtfo with your 300k burst claims
i am king with my 2m over .2 seconds
its over the duration of your vendetta
makes most logical sense
nah u right
its over .2 seconds
light kestrel
I bursted for 200 damage, come at me.
primal gazelle
the original topic was 100k burst with 3 NP
light kestrel
everyone get rez sickness and two fish daggers, highest burst wins
dark barn
LOLL
lone junco
speaking of awesome burst.
if you do timewalking that is.
4p20 with 2ss and Soulcapacitor.
g g g afk. explodes for 4x the other people.
fleet whale
isn't soul cap bad in TW or did they buff it's scaling
lone junco
this was from last time
4p20 sephuz. bracer. 2ss. soulcap
makes them bearable.
the glaves are dumb.
was always like this.
if you do timewalk for the box anyway.
fleet whale
i guess the big burst of damage is nice but soul capacitor when it scales down to BC only deals 101% of the stored damage
primal gazelle
https://raider.io/characters/us/thrall/Nooberog @lone junco is this you or am i looking at the wrong person
lone junco
totally me
ripe nimbus
Can u guys stop being 8 yr old children pls kthnxbye
Ur internet egos will survive if u just let it go i promise
primal gazelle
i literally didnt even say anything
😄
i asked him a question, he answered, and i left it at that
stable pine
Hey guys - what’s a burst? 🤷♀️
sturdy python
It’s a MW monk trait, wrong channel
polar bridge
Anywho, what actually changed to make NP the highest trait
round harbor
Ok I'm here to spread misinformation, whay can I do for you today
rich linden
prisma monolithBOT
There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.
round harbor
I can burst a few million tbh
lone junco
good to know. thanks.
wide delta
is it mandatory to have at least 1 twist of knife trait? or stack NP?
lone junco
looks good.
wide delta
and i can replace NP with twist of knife in my head
round harbor
I'd keep that
lone junco
unless you want to drop TC on purpose.
wide delta
almost 100 dps @lone junco
round harbor
Only thing left to fix is put ur language on english
wide delta
that picture has almost 100 dps more than twist of knife
round harbor
Yeah, so you should take the picture and not use ttk
lone junco
ttk is fine. so is NP and TC and SS and EB (cleave)
round harbor
Do you notice a difference with one ttk? I can't imagine it feeling any different
Maybe two or three where ur envm starts trucking but one idk
wide delta
ya ill go with 2 NP, 3 DD and 1 TC
warm harbor
Any tips for sin rogue on mythic conclace, really struggling to put out meaningful dmg, especially on the raptors.
round harbor
I just rupt them when they in range of boss
We also had multiple priests, and multiple boomkons tho
So I was a boss dmg bot
wide delta
one last questions, playing with MA , i always use envenom with full CP in the window but i never have the chance to use envenom a 2nd time with full CP unless im ultra lucky
should I use even with 3 CP for example before the buff wears off?
round harbor
Nah
Especially with multiple double dosees
The dream is envm mut envm, but it don't always be like that
Some people also use tb inside the window as well
I think that is the one listed on the guide
wide delta
that is literally the dream
that combo in that window
its like back in the days , same feeling when PB procced in the crit window
sturdy python
civic palm
ezpz
round harbor
Usually in my opener double dose it topping the meters for me or close to it
I haven't gotten my lootbox of disappointment yet. Wife got tboned so I been at dealership for a few hours reeee
civic palm
She alright?
round harbor
Yeah. Most likely totaled her 18' mustang tho
Hit the back of the passenger and spun her around
civic palm
mmm, well that's good. Hope the insurance is nasty enough to go after those at fault.
civic palm
,<
round harbor
bleak spoke
what a shitty chest piece to get zzz https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aJJkvcaMAPyVmV54gBit3d
strange python
You shouldn't use dungeon slice to sim for m+ right?
bleak spoke
you can
round harbor
Dungeon slice is still a little more St focused
Last I heard
And not simmimg anywhere near the aoe of reaping
civic palm
Coooooorrect.
jaunty crystal
I got that one today as well @bleak spoke
don't be too mad, it was a 800-900 DPS increase over the waycrest 415 chest I had
with SS + ruinous bolt 😛
so things could have been worse if you got that one lol
lone junco
i got a cloak on one and a ring on another. both were losses. 😐
hollow stone
@lone junco livin your dream after rolling random chest today: 3dd, 1np, 1tc, 1ss
All 415
bleak spoke
yeh maybe i'll just get the grong and jadefire pieces today and it'll be all good ;-;
hollow stone
I feel you my dude
lone junco
Looking good. Do you have a ttk to swap that tc out?
Or 3
I'm gonna run 3dd ma tb tonight. See how it goes.
Depends on roster though. Might have to heal again.
waxen vine
Is it ever acceptable to hold off using TB to pool extra energy or get bleeds refreshed? Or is it imperative to get the TB on CD even though you may need to refresh garrote or rupture in the window / be at lower energy?
For Master Assassin DD ^^
dark crag
Use tb on cd
grave elk
so i just got a new dagger. and i have haste on my main hand. should i sim stat weights after i equip the new dagger and then decide what weapon enchant to get? or just get deadly nav
waxen vine
Use the top gear option, and sim it all at once with the enchants selected
grave elk
just select all enchants ? that way i can see the best wombo combo?
waxen vine
ahh yeah
lone junco
I haven't seen much over crit/haste.
waxen vine
MA mastery haste
lone junco
Remember you prob use the same for cleave as well.
And FOK crit is nice.
But yeah. Sims.
dark crag
Ma is only 50% crit and crit makes assa more fluid
But a top gear sim with all 3 enchants give answers
grave elk
yeah im currently running sims on all enchants atm
i screamed lol cuz i got 390 drop. and its replacing a 370
lone junco
Grats 390
grave elk
interesting mastery enchant is simming higher then crit
and haste enchant is best on my offhand apparently
lone junco
In st yes. But in cleave it's Crit is best. So you have a blend.
grave elk
mastery enchant is simming highest for mainhand for aoe and st atm
which is what shocked me
lone junco
Most just go with crit haste. But if you are rich then swap them in and out.
waxen vine
only really two good fights for cleave maybe three if you wanna pad rhasta
lone junco
Mastery buffs bleeds in cleave.
dark crag
Don't you have a third dagger?
lone junco
You do you.
dark crag
No three 415 dagger?
lone junco
390 socket for me. Rip
stable pine
Good for OH I suppose
dark crag
I wish rastakhan drops his dagger
lone junco
socket weps are huge for offhand cause the DPS is irrelevant
looks like a 415 mh would be nice
limp me.
grave elk
do you turn off the drums for aoe simming? since thats never a thing that happens ?
sorry bloodlust
ember forum
you guys think scent of blood is worth dropping a DD or NP for jadefire? strictly for pumping logs
fickle obsidian
so I am simming my character and it chooses subt with no SS to be -0.7% less, is that significant enough?
grave elk
holy shit u guys pump
lone junco
@grave elk I sim dungeon slice fight. Unless looking at something weird.
strange python
What changed for 3x NP simming highest?
lone junco
25k at >405 is pretty bonkers. I'm 390 and not 21k.
Np dot tick is hasted. And wasn't simming that way before.
lone junco
Not an error. But the first np is great. The rest are on par with the other traits. Sim your available options. And let the computer decide.
Or use a magic 8ball. 👌
strange python
cool, thanks
lone junco
do people actually do Pvp Islands?
grave elk
double dose or nothing personal?
grave elk
i have 3 SS and 2 DD
lone junco
well.
lone junco
sim the kit, with subterfuge. but thats not bad.
grave elk
120 more dps for ST and 500 dps for aoe lol
i just realized on how nice that extra energy regen will feel on top of vendetta typical energy gain is
wow
didnt read that before
civic palm
GETOUTTAHEREMASTERYJEEZ
grave elk
Is the new opener for SS. 3 x garrote into rupture into vendetta - TB envenom?
robust thorn
Wait, 3x Garrote?
civic palm
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rustic ether
grave elk
i was looking at logs of the highest parse on heroic Champ of light. and top guys did 3 garrotes at start
civic palm
There are adds there and I bet the fight is about a minute long so duh
stable pine
Grong also has adds?
grave elk
it has adds.. but it doesnt have adds at the opener
so checking openers is valid there
hearty jetty
the adds spawn when first vanish is used, making it very easy to apply 3 garrotes
fast forum
on ST 3 garrotes in a row isnt the play
fading vigil
quick ice
Yeah Opal
odd hatch
@ember forum 7 sockets? 7!?
haughty parrot
master assassin stronger than sub for single target now?
odd hatch
Pure single target yes, for some people. Opener isnt as smooth as with ss/sub though, which is part of the reason why many choose not to run it
Also blows if you dont get crits
haughty parrot
oo ok. thanks
timber geyser
Check Herodamage to see how they work and if it's worth stacking or having one of each
hearty jetty
most likely yes
timber geyser
The real dilemma is simming if 3xSS/2x echoing or 2x SS/3x echoing is better for m+ high keys.. On ST fights SS wins, on hectic 4 target cleave echoing win by 30%, but on dungeon slice (beta) sim they break out even.. Anyone had a chance to test it in game?
I got my item in the morning before work so haven't had time to play around
heavy skiff
how do i see an APM table in logs? i once saw a screenshot here but i cant find it
i need to convince rl to not make me take ruby
cunning spade
Does anyone have advice about the optimal time to pop Galecaller's trinket effect within opener. I use it inside the Vendetta window obviously. But my current thinking is after garrote and rupture have been applied but before toxic blade within the opener..any other thoughts?
Given that Vendetta generates 60 energy over 3 seconds, I also thought it might be slightly better to pop Galecaller after these 3 seconds just in case energy is capped during that window
visual quartz
my open is gar rup gar, GCB vendentta berserking TB env into mut env spam
grave elk
Where are the opals and emeralds in oppulence? if i hover will it tell me name of gem?
steep obsidian
i have no idea what the name of them is but i think they do
you can just go by the colours tho
lilac lily
fading wigeon
primal gazelle
@timber geyser take 3 EB
steel wagon
so SS is technically simming less than other traits for ST, do most people just use it for the ease of the opener + vanishing onto adds or w/e
I like to use one, but deciding on using a second one over DD or NP
It's pretty strong on m grong if the adds spawn next to the boss. can vanish garrote boss and each of the adds
mostly trying to figure it out for m oppulence.
timber geyser
@primal gazelle have you played around with them? Would have 3 EB change the aoe rotation?
3x garrote>5cp CT>Eb>4-5 ruptures or just spam EB?
austere scarab
How are you guys playing out Jadefire? I feel like I'm missing something to really opening up my DPS.
hearty jetty
holding first vendetta for after multisided strike
fickle obsidian
if you sim ~400 dps lower with SS/SUBT would that be ok using it over MA with no SS?
hearty jetty
Do you prefer Subt?
fickle obsidian
eh I never actually played MA before. I just been reading that its really good on pure ST. But I was curious to know if thats a significant dps loss
amber arrow
does shadowmeld garrote trigger ss?
quick ice
Yes, but not subterfuge.
sand otter
got 2 enw peices in raid, both shourded
and it sims worse than my gear thats 20 Ilvls lower
im so salty
fierce knoll
opal for opulence?
rancid bobcat
crisp dove
Hey gang - simming well, but not pulling great damage on meters... any tips? Logs from tonight’s raid... https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AazKjZTLMtYkwhCF
civic palm
Surely there's a command for it! :3
primal gazelle
currently rank 1 in dps in underrot, cha chinggg 😄
EB spam 4 life
@timber geyser if you have 3 eb. Don’t bother using ct at all. Use HB or PB. Goal is to have enough ruptures out to spam fok every gcd
timber geyser
What's HB?
primal gazelle
hidden blades
primal gazelle
im probably the only rogue on this planet that uses HB
crisp dove
Any log gurus out there?
primal gazelle
With HB, my average FOK hit is 5.8 - 6.2k ish
without it, it averages for 3.8-4.2k ish, that's about a 50% increase in overall dmg
I had 14M in FOK dmg in this 19 Underrot, if i didnt use HB, at 4k dmg per hit, my fok damage would be at 9m instead of 14m. That's 5m in damage added just from HB. Without HB, my total overall dmg would be (59.4m - 5m = 54.4m. HB boosted my overall damage by 11%. Which is significantly more than Poison bomb or CT
hallow sage
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7YXva2R4bMv3TctvT3XhQC
finally broke that 25k marker 😎
alpine pilot
guys, if u cloak the gigavolt charge on mekkatorque wen its about to expire, does it explode and hit the raid ?
opal meadow
SS or scent of blood for m+ if you already have a SS
alpine pilot
do i need to LOS even wen i cloak?
opal meadow
yes
quick ice
yeah
opal meadow
@hallow sage how in the heck did you get enough residuum for 3 415's
oh.. that helm is from mythic
im dumb
hallow sage
i wouldn't have had enough residuum for the shoulders this week, but i did some sims and 5 out of the 6 shoulders from the vendor were either on par or upgrades, so i scrapped off all my spare pieces and my shoulders for the 600 i needed and managed to RNG them nice BIS gorak's
tired thistle
Ok so heres an odd question im looking at Logs for Damage taken on Heroic Grong and although i used Feint a ton when tantrums were happening can that damage not be avoided am i wasting Energy and GCD By using feint it seemes like im not ingnoring any Damage at all
quick ice
feint cuts tantrum damage in half?
tired thistle
yeah but i used Feint on every tantrum and the other Rogue in the raid Did not and he took less damage than me
Let me go look at the logs again
It looks like a 4% difference between the two i dont think Feint does Fuckall to tantrum damage
Average without Feint is 54k Hits and for me using Feint its 62k but i have a larger Health Pool than he does
So it seems too make almost no difference at all
Im just wasting GCD and Energy
Unless talented i assume
Then i lose Cheat death
Which doesnt seem worth it at all Either
true fulcrum
Would it be better to use my titan residuum on a random shoulder or chest piece with this setup? DD/NP (head), SS/TTK (shoulder), DD/SoB (chest) https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ah3gRJSSb2wcYj5sZsvR7X
primal gazelle
depends if you plan to kill mythic grong anytime soon
true fulcrum
will probably kill mythic grong this week
lone junco
@primal gazelle Saw another person on that list using HB and lolled. Then saw it was also you and lolled again.
primal gazelle
im a trend starter just watch
i had the same reaction tbh i was like "who the fuck"
then i realized it was me
civic palm
lol
lone junco
Idk. We dont pull big enough to use eb. I've tried a few times and when tank stops at 3x. I want to murder them.
I have 1. But 3x isn't gonna work out.
@tired thistle other rogue could have gotten more disc bubbles. Or sac. Or cocoon. Or hpal aura.
Damage tanken from tantrum. Etc
Reminds me. A shoulder cloak. HB. Soulcap. 3x eb timewalk set.
Doubt it will beat 4p20. But worth a try.
hardy sequoia
Hey what are the traits we aim for m+?
I am able to play 3ttk 2eb 1ss or 3eb 2ss 1ttk mit sure if it‘s worth to pad into reaping adds
cosmic pier
Get better tanks 4Head
lone junco
3ss does fine with what we pull. But I did roll hpal to try and push them a little harder. Rogue doesn't help much there.
primal gazelle
only sin rogue in a sea of outlaws 
austere scarab
150 world on Grong tonight
feelsbigman
150 rogue world** fuck all if I am big big
just rogue big
someday top 10 if I can not suck ass
grizzled jay
@hardy sequoia your first setup is very good😀
hardy sequoia
@grizzled jay I forgot 2eb 2ss 2ttk I’m not sure:( can’t try it out yet
grizzled jay
Any combination of that is vgood. Work with what you have
opal meadow
reasking since no one responded earlier, SS or scent of blood for m+ if you already have a SS
civic forge
SS is better to stack than SoB
ancient sonnet
safe to say lads, i can do the single target
grizzled jay
Damn raz
ancient sonnet
the dream now is to yoink the hat from first boss so i never have to get more azerite for the rest of the patch :))
grizzled jay
First boss not been nice to me so far on mythic
warm geode
same
flat ocean
@tired thistle He was cloaking 50% of the tantrums lmao
flat ocean
Link me the logs so i can check
But feint definetely works on tantrum and if you have similar damage taken that's the most obvious explanation
grizzled jay
Is that the best use of cloak there?
grizzled jay
Okay
flat ocean
so you dont take extra damage
round harbor
I just cloak the first tantrum. Don't need it for anything until later anyway
flat ocean
you can cloak 50% of the tantrums if your raid is doing it right
ancient sonnet
i try not to cloak it since if something goes wrong its nice to have
i just feint em
flat ocean
thats straight up bad
ancient sonnet
sure
but whats worse is your raid full chimping, getting a 4 stack then dying to it
flat ocean
tantrum puts a debuff on you making you take more nature damage
meaning ur healers need to do more
ancient sonnet
more logs for htem
flat ocean
if you can mitigate that you should
ancient sonnet
win win :))
hearty jetty
rofl
lament dove
I'm not that empatic with treacherous covenant
willow pulsar
@primal gazelle considering that you want to spam FoK, wouldn't master poisoner be a way to go? Have you tried it?
flat ocean
being proactive and consistant with cloak > being reactive with it
ancient sonnet
but using it to mitigate smol damage that cant kill you unless you int is to me wasted
when i have seen my guild fully int the boss and get a 4 stacker
flat ocean
yeah but ur still wiping
round harbor
4 stack is basocy wipe either way
round harbor
Ain't no one living that for long
ancient sonnet
if rng cares, you do it
ancient sonnet
tanks live, anyone with similar personal also lives
flat ocean
so
round harbor
Yeahhhhhhh
flat ocean
let me explain to you
hearty jetty
pretty dumb argument lmao
flat ocean
that you kill the boss
round harbor
Cloak on CD lol
flat ocean
on the 5-6th orb
so if you cloak the 1st tantrum
you can cloak the 3rd
and then cloak the 5th which is when the boss should die
ancient sonnet
or i be a gudboi and take the punishment and let my healers parse too
flat ocean
eh fair enough
lament dove
what else do you cloak there?
flat ocean
Glad i don't have to raid with you though
drifting cloud
aoe on the floor when youre sitting in gcb 🤡
ancient sonnet
i mean sure, if it meant the difference between a kill or not id cloak it but just dont do it cause theres no risk
flat ocean
it can mean the difference lol
flat ocean
imagine your healers having to heal you 70% less
because ur taking 0 damage outside of 2nd and 4th tantrum
ancient sonnet
its pretty much covered by revival, tranq, hymn etc anyway
its not like the smart heals care
ancient sonnet
but you're talking about cloaking tantrum
flat ocean
exactly
ancient sonnet
what other nature damage is there?
flat ocean
so tantrum
gives you a debuff
that makes u take more damage
with cloak you dont get that debuff
ancient sonnet
oh the one that only increases damage taken from tantrum
that drops before next tantrum
ye same
drifting cloud
😂
lament dove
but you are spending energy and a global on feint instead of cloaking it "just because"?
flat ocean
also applies a dot that ticks on you?
drifting cloud
cloaking tantrum is pretty pointless in grand scheme of it, if you wanna do it, do it
ancient sonnet
6k dot
drifting cloud
but dont pretend it makes a difference on the fight
ancient sonnet
oh well
drifting cloud
if I need cloak to lvie tantrum means 15 people prolly died
ancient sonnet
^ literally this
flat ocean
dot does 140k total
flat ocean
so 3 cloaks = 420k less healing
ancient sonnet
420k less healing = lower parse for the lads
flat ocean
you wont mitigate that much damage with cloak anywhere else
ancient sonnet
ill take one for the lads
it just doesnt matter really
like at all
im not disagreeing that its useful, just that it makes the fight a kill or nah
flat ocean
fair enough, in a good prog guild it matters but outside of that it's not to relevant
just a min-max thing
ancient sonnet
i mean in a good prog guild you cloaking that is not the difference
cause in a good prog guild that boss goes down in 20 mins first time you get there, and gets deleted every other time
flat ocean
because everyone uses defensives appropriately and consistantly
thats what matters more
golden relic
I Like how pointless the 9 AM rogue discord conversations are
quick ice
I mean, wouldn't cloaking tantrum make SLT (assuming you're in it) more effective for others? since you'd still have basically full health?
flat ocean
Yeah it does but he's right that it doesn't make or break the fight at this point
ancient sonnet
nor did it ever
flat ocean
You should aim to proactively cloak the most damage in an encounter unless you need it elsewhere
ancient sonnet
but ayy w/e
grizzled jay
This is what you get when people are bored at work
dull wraith
gem for opulence?
hearty jetty
think about it
hardy anchor
Any nightelves here can help me understand how the damage scaling on garotte works with shadowmeld? regular garotte seems to tick for around 1.8k, my regualr SS from stealth garotte for around 7.2k, but when I shadowmeld garotte it turns into around 4k?
quick ice
so subterfuge doesn't work, but SS does
quick ice
its not intuitive, don't worry
hardy anchor
haha, Yeah, surprised that went over my head tho considering I knew that I wasn't getting my 3 secs of subterfuge
big brain right here
still really nice racial synergy with exsang tho, I didn't even realize till very recently it procced SS
strange python
@ancient sonnet got the same on but with SS/DD on the Chest 😃 feels juicy
Is the ideal Azerite setup for ST: 3x DD, 1x SS, 1x NP, 1x TTK?
worldly iron
can't you go into stealth with shadowmeld?
strange python
@strange python probably sim it
hardy anchor
You can't go into stealth during bosses unfortunately
quick ice
partial kind of stealth
strange python
In M+ during bosses you just reapply with Vanish. In mobs packs you can use both Vanish and meld to get the extra Garrotes. Try to allways plan to use Meld-stealth on the pack before the boss so you have meld off CD after boss and Vanish off CD during the boss :) Planing properly means a lot more uptime on Garrotes :) = a lot of increased damage in m+
pale knot
Yo, just scraped my 415 shoulders and bought a new 415 token and literally got the same is it supposed to work like this or just reslly bad rng?
Since it happened twice before awell before the patch
quick ice
yes it can work like that
its literally a random token
1/6 chance of getting the same again
sand whale
pale knot
Ye i guess just super triggered 😂
latent gazelle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lost idol
Best random piece to buy? mythic azerite
quick ice
depends
lost idol
head/shoulder
quick ice
I mean, those two are the comparatively easiest to get from raid
helm is easier
not sure what random heads are like though
tiny arrow
think random heads are pretty poop
brisk forge
Kinda hard to beat helm from Champion xD
quick ice
there's also the chance of getting gorak tul's mantle from shoulders
which are super juicy
obsidian sierra
@pale knot i had 3 tentacle shoulders in a row
Dont worry its rng
Your toon is not broken
😄
This week mplus going 1sob, 1 eb , 3 ss or switching one of the ss for double eb anythoughts?
Id say double eb for trash?
grizzled jay
Three SS hasn't been mandatory for a while
Double EB is fine. Bosses will melt anyway
fallow estuary
What's the big D sim dps club right now? 24k? 25k?
vast forum
25k ye
fallow estuary
Need Daggers then
obsidian sierra
Idk this whole azerite thing fucks me up i just wanna play multi spec outlaw and assa and it is awful to pray to rng god to get proper gear just to play it properly
So tired of this thingy
quick ice
8.2 changes apparently?
quick ice
I believe there are planned changes to azerite in 8.2 that will make it better?
something about the neck having its own traits?
obsidian sierra
Like easier to obtain bis
Oh ok
So the gear specific gets removes or what
Would be awesome
Like id everybody is just responsible for lvling his neck in order to unlock@all avaliable traits on the 3 slots would be cool
worldly iron
I want reforge removed and having them be like talents, or at least let every spec have a different set
obsidian sierra
So you could just play around with spec instead waiting weeks for the right pieces
Yeah like talents is what i mean
worldly iron
letting us freely change traits in rested areas would be a game changer
brisk forge
Make no sense to add such a high Numbers every time u need to swap traits 😳
strange python
Free change would be so fun. Then I would change so much depending on boss or dungeon. Now it is just unplayable some days. Having raid traits in M+ every Tuesday and late Sunday is just.... bad = I never do any high keys those two days :(
undone pasture
Bake all traits baseline and make chest/head/shoulder normal armor with normal stats
Ezpz best expansion
quick ice
pretty sure seeing method people hit gold cap costs for the reforge might have blizz thinking they messed up somewhere
strange python
Nah. You didn't see the interview were the blizz guy says he never have any issue with it and his cost is at 5 gold every week? 😂 bit off topic, sorry but ye.... it is stupid and I don't see a change until 8.2 :(
cloud iris
How much crit are u guys rocking in m+
obsidian sierra
Sounds good for now what is in the QA
Hoping to get all traits on the hoa since its shit to have rng on 3 slots
Rogzten i have around 30 crit, 30 mastery and 14 haste
Crit is more valuable this season with eb traits
At least my assumption
Last ss i had most on mastery
grizzled jay
And TTK traits benefit a lot from it
So 30-35 you should try
If you can do more cause of your gear then more power to you
obsidian sierra
Im still wondering how much mastery is beneficial right now. Is it worth going to have only 25 mastery in order to get 35 crit?
Because i am able to do so
grizzled jay
I am at like 35 crit 8 haste 35 mastery
dapper moat
what build sims haste so low that u have only 8%
obsidian sierra
I have too much versa since my 415 pants are haste versa
strange python
You don't need haste in M+
dapper moat
i have haste like 23% and strill sims highest for me
grizzled jay
I don't sim for m+
dapper moat
aah yeah
grizzled jay
I use common sense
obsidian sierra
I also hate simmung for mplus but in this discord 80 perc of ppl tell you „sim yo self“
dapper moat
well i use sim statweight as its better in math than i but
strange python
More EBs = Have higher crit
Less EBs = Have higher Mastery
Allways "low" Haste
dapper moat
but on raids ? as i statweight myself witrh 1 boss 5min and haste is clearly number one to go
grizzled jay
Even 1EB with more TTK you still need lots of crit
obsidian sierra
Braxoo i ask a lot of stuff the last days in outlaw channel for mplus since im tried it the last week
You dont know how many times i got told sim yo self
grizzled jay
If you wanna run full Single target in sethralis and KR I'm not gonna stop you tho
dapper moat
diavolo on m+s right? or u talking about general including raid st fights?
grizzled jay
We talking M+ atm
dapper moat
kk
ivory hill
I had read that you only used one EB and stack SS for the rest. Should I use more than one EB for M+?
grizzled jay
It's up to you
dapper moat
yeah haste feels kinda pointless in m+ as u can dot cleave mobs for energy gain and just spam fok
grizzled jay
And how much padding risen souls means to you
obsidian sierra
I tried low haste like around 10 a lot of times but it felt so clunky even since most times i even cant get 4 garrote opener so i ended up with 14 as a comfort spot
dapper moat
question is how can u have time and money to swap between raids and m+s 😄 or you guys just go for m+ push?
grizzled jay
I do different gear
dapper moat
changing gems,azerites etc costly
grizzled jay
So I rarely swap traits
dapper moat
k
vast forum
You don't use 4 garrotes in the opener
dapper moat
i guess i should also use those 385s 😄
grizzled jay
Yeah 3 is enough
vast forum
Why would you?
grizzled jay
Just use rupture instead of 4th gar
obsidian sierra
More garrotes ?
vast forum
Garrote isn't worth the global in aoe
vast forum
Except the subt ones
obsidian sierra
I did a lot of keys around 18 last ss and ever did 4 garrote opener and went fine but if you say 3 subt ones is enough i might try this the next days in my sessions
Might get better with it so good if it helps
grizzled jay
I've seen more theories but garroting a higher HP mob wouldn't hurt
obsidian sierra
I mean im running sob so the global for garrote indeed might not be that good
grizzled jay
Need to think on the fly and adapt
vast forum
Not worth the global that you could use to get more cp from fok
To spam env in prio target
grizzled jay
Especially with TTK yeah
obsidian sierra
What is ttk btw
worldly iron
sob?
obsidian sierra
Ah twist the knife
vast forum
Twist the knife
grizzled jay
I just put up a few ruptures and start spamming 90k envenoms
obsidian sierra
But would ttk even be worth taking over one ss or one eb? Or just if you dont have any choice as of gear
grizzled jay
I would run at least one SS
sleek heron
quick one on nothing personal,
does the energy reg stack or does only the poison effect stack?
grizzled jay
That is worth it
worldly iron
what's sob?
worldly iron
ah, gotcha
obsidian sierra
Most times in aoe i get up to 4-7 stacks
Its around 1k agi
Since i got a 415 piece
grizzled jay
I wouldn't worry too much about stacking 3EB
Your are over compensating to compete on padding on risen souls with outlaw
obsidian sierra
You think so? I heard of many top tier rogues 3 eb 3 ss is the goal
grizzled jay
Might as well play outlul at that point
I haven't heard any serious m+ pusher utter those words
SS is also limited cause it doesn't scale
obsidian sierra
Musclebrah said it last week or so when we discussed in this discord
obsidian sierra
Why? Isnt he playing at the top edge
grizzled jay
Full time
grizzled jay
3EB will limit your actual non pad damage a lot in higher keys
vast forum
Playing at the high level is more about mechanics than optimizing traits and dps
grizzled jay
1 or two is more than enough
obsidian sierra
Makes also sense
grizzled jay
When you are on that 18 - 20 tyrannical boss and you kill him way slower you will notice
obsidian sierra
I currently have 2ss 2eb 1sob 1 dd. But i believe dd is total garbage in mplus
grizzled jay
DD isn't worth:
obsidian sierra
Not using mutinthat much
Unfortunately in the inner ring of my shoulders so no alternative
Outer ring has ss and eb
grizzled jay
I got lucky and can run 2TTK 2SS 2EB
Or scrap one EB for one more TTK which I'm doing right now
obsidian sierra
Yeah i might consider anything else than 3eb and 3ss as an option now maybe
grizzled jay
For this combo I have opulance head conclave chest and pistoleer shoulders
obsidian sierra
So not too limiting myself
grizzled jay
Not so hard to get. Shoulder is rng sadly
obsidian sierra
Yeah i tried 3 times but its rng
spice surge
Shoulders with Eb/ttk drops from rasta
frozen gorge
TTK is the envenom trait?
grizzled jay
Yes
frozen gorge
it's better than DD for M+ boss?
grizzled jay
Ofc
royal lantern
DD is good for raids because the fights are long and mostly on a single target
spice surge
Well, not for the bosses in m+
royal lantern
DD has low value in m+ cus you spend most time on trash and bosses dont take that long
spice surge
But its not useless on trash like dd is
unreal sundial
Depends on ur keys, if you're doing <15s TTK is good but really I don't ever do m+ without 3x SS, 1x Rup, 1x DD
grizzled jay
TTK can be funneled by fan of knives spam so it's nice for prop dmg. You become a pseudo sub rogue
Prio dmg*
spice surge
Why would twist be good on low keys, it's rather the opposite since you don't really get value out of twist until you've setup your bleeds and have enough energy to envenom
grizzled jay
Really if you aren't interested in pushing. Play whatever you like and feel comfortable with
Sub is dead. And you can still do 19s with it.
obsidian sierra
Yeah however 19s still one of the higher keys right now
You saying as it would be low 😂
What keys do you play?
unreal sundial
@spice surge It's better in that you're only applying it 2 or 3 times in lower keys on bigger mobs like in T'D so I prefer to not run TTK at all
but that's preference over anything
See more value in SS/Rupture traits and DD for bosses than in taking TTK
spice surge
What
pseudo mountain
Im mostly in the 10 to 13+ Range because my Team is not stable. What traits would you recommend in the Range for tyrannical and fortified
spice surge
Ttk isn't for bosses
obsidian sierra
😂nothing to do at work
grizzled jay
I'll find smth to do. Cheers have a nice day
obsidian sierra
U2
unreal sundial
@spice surge I'm talking about packs with bigger health pools, not bosses
spice surge
Yes? And with higher keys you get to use more envenoms, thus you get more value at higher keys
Compared to ss which generally get worse the higher you get, since if mobs stay alive after the garrotes you do less
unreal sundial
Sure, but then the value of TTK drops when comparing it to ST damage on bosses which correlates to higher keys too
spice surge
Drops compared to what?
Ttk is far better than Eb and scent for bosses
And about equal with ss
unreal sundial
I'd say that scent is better for trash pulls than TTK
undone moon
How many SB do you usually go for?
spice surge
Assa is good every week if you play it well
scarlet wing
but from week to week assa or combat is stronger
ivory hill
I've managed to stack 3 SS and EB, should I try to diversify a bit? It seems to sim well
strange python
Don't sim m+. There are way to many factors outside of a sim in m+.
unreal sundial
only have 1 SB.
crisp dove
Any log gurus out there that can help me? Trying to figure out why my dps isn’t. close to my sim... https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AazKjZTLMtYkwhCF
steep obsidian
did you read the pinned guide?
cosmic pier
too many muts in your first tb
make sure you read the guide and understand the basics
steep obsidian
i mean
if he has anything specific to ask
id help more
we looked at a few things
theres like a full clear there
tacit steppe
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sick cradle
Is TC better than NP if you already have 1 NP?
thorn tartan
dapper moat
Depends much how much u take hit
For me 100 uptime tc sims better
But with 90 uptime second np sims better
Hence i go 2xnp
short flicker
when should i run MA vs Subterfuge
crisp dove
@steep obsidian Yep, read the guide. I’m looking for more into what I’m doing wrong. I’m 7/9 heroic so I’m not a complete noob. I’m just new to assassination from outlaw. Looking for some tips.
steep obsidian
what do you think you struggle at?
crisp dove
Honestly I don’t know. I see lower ilvl sin rogues pulling higher dps. Perhaps it’s not pooling and timing my Cooldowns?
thorn tartan
@short flicker depends on azerite
past roost
Probably the most single target boss in there is grong so start with your logs on it. Your up time of both Garrote and Rupture could have been higher. You wasted 12 combo points on mutilate and 3 on garrote. As far as my understanding goes (someone can correct me if I'm wrong) That means you were at 4 or 5 combo points and mutilated again mutiple times. Thats a huge energy and dps waste
Also your openner looks a bit off. You'd get more out of Toxic Blade by using your first muti then toxic then if you need to muti and envenom
At the 10 second in mark you muti three times then rupture. Wasting 50 energy
And later on in the fight you muti 4 times before using a finisher
Also never follow up a toxic blade with rupture. Make sure rupture is up and doesn't have to be refreshed inside your toxic blade window
quasi pewter
didnt look at the log but "wasting" cp with mutilate is normal and is gonna happen in every fight
past roost
It should show up as seal fate not mutilate
quasi pewter
garrote can also happen if you run shrouded and want to garrote multiple adds
past roost
From my understanding
rose perch
No that shows up as "seal fate" if you have any next to mutilate it's from using it at 4 or 5
past roost
And SS shows up as SS too
quasi pewter
cool didnt know, ignore my first message then
dapper moat
"Make sure rupture is up and doesn't have to be refreshed inside your toxic blade window" that is actually insaine hard to do as u easily end up holding toxic blade and that could mean that u end up using less TB on the fight..
but i agree that ideal is at least 2 envenoms on tb window..
its just hard sometimes
past roost
Yeah thats very true. Multiple times I've had to drop the last envenom. However at one point in the fight he goes Toxic Blade muti muti rupture
quartz rune
I mean thats kinda the only "big thing" to plan as assa rogue
past roost
Perfect world you'd get two or three in each window but that never happens
quartz rune
Pooling energy and having not to refresh bleed during tb window
dapper moat
pooling is somewhat hard as i carry 3xDDs on raid
so i often want to muti when low on combo points and when i should pool
quartz rune
Its only hard because ur not used to it
quick ice
Pool at full CP
dapper moat
yeah could be
quick ice
Env mut mut, pool.
quartz rune
I mean u dont want to overcap energy
dapper moat
k might try that one out, spooce
quasi pewter
Yea pooling at 0 cp doesnt do anything
quartz rune
I mean pooling at 0 cp is fine too.. if you dont overcap energy right?
Cause then u start ur TB with -> TB Mut muti env
quasi pewter
Well yea but you might aswell mut to 4 or 5 cp and then pool
quartz rune
If u mut to 4/5 cp u have high risk of wasting cps
As u want to cast TB
And then use CPs on Env
quasi pewter
Ur also gonna get less envenoms out during tb if you pool at 0
Also, the apl often tbs at 5 cp iirc, unless the apl is scuffed i think wasting 1 or 2 cp with tb is fine
gusty plinth
you can just get 4/5cps then pool and use tb easy
lone junco
If you have 4/5 cps and tb is almost up. You wait and tb env mut mut env. Or.
You do a weaker env. Tb. And have e to mut mut. But non to env.
merry zinc
in a best case scenario in m+ do you want 3x eb 3x ss ? or 3x ss 2x eb 1x tc?
quartz rune
Ok thanks will try that today
merry zinc
i'm at 2x eb 3x ss 1x tc atm
just not sure if i should try to get a better chest where i already have ss/eb
or head but i could get the head from first boss mythic in a few weeks i guess
lone junco
I'm trying to dump tc for m+. I don't hate my healer
merry zinc
yeah.. and the chance of getting the one chest with eb + ss is not that high
broken fiber
Hey quick rog question is it fine to have more than 1 nothing personal
gusty plinth
@merry zinc isint there one from raid?
quartz rune
Its fine but not good sloopy
merry zinc
yeah but im not mythic raiding, dont think i can kill 5th boss any time soon
quartz rune
Yeah conclave chest has that i think. Ss and EB
strange python
hey can anyone please check out my logs here https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hjcy3wKRaMbZp74N/ my rogues name is Yoona
and tell me what im doing wrong xD
hearty jetty
Before looking further, on grong you opened pretty poorly. I suggest just reading and rereading the sin guide that is in the pins to get all the basics covered.
thorn tartan
You did not garrote in opener :O
strange python
i did 😮
thorn tartan
Was too Black 😁
quick ice
I see his first cast as garrote?
hearty jetty
mistakes were pretty minor, but seeing as the opener is the most 'stress-free' time in the fight, it is worth getting it correct. over mutilating and not optimising subterfuge with a SS trait is worth correcting.
charred moat
so the ravenholdt guide says its only good to have one nothing personal, but blood mallet has it as the best trait to be stacked
strange python
hmm but i am using one SS trait on my azerite
charred moat
Whats the go bros
strange python
should i get rid of scent of blood?
hearty jetty
lone junco
That opener isn't hat bad. Assuming subterfuge no SS.
hearty jetty
he has subterfuge and 1 SS
the opener is bad because its the easiest thing to perfect
cedar zephyr
Maybe one was parried. 🤔
hearty jetty
even if one did get parried, it's still a suboptimal way to open
g r g is pretty simple
strange python
so what should i do instead should i use envenom with 4 cp ?
hearty jetty
yes
desert kelp
Which pieces from BoD (azerite) Are bis?
strange python
should i use nothing personal instead of TC?
hearty jetty
you should sim your gear and find what works best for your setup
in general, i would pick NP over TC.
strange python
i do sim it frequently
everytime i get a new item that is a minor upgrade i sim to see what should be changed
quartz rune
@hearty jetty even if you alresdy have 1 NP?
hearty jetty
personally i am taking 2xNP over 1xNp 1xTC
NP is set and forget. TC can drop off, and if you are very very unlucky it can speed up your death, so i don't like it as much. it sims around ~25 dps better than a second NP for me at perfect uptime. I thought sacrificing it was worth it.
strange python
is having 2 overwhelming power good or nah
quartz rune
It still has a lot of value