well yea i just found odd that on actual sims i just did my blightborne and shrouded are beating NP
#assassination
inner pecan
all those traits are incredibly close, that's past the point where you can rely on a general HD chart for decision-making
we're talking maybe a 0.3% difference between traits here
austere spade
you're right. also to consider that Np is strictly ST which on BoD makes it not that great. Same with DD
ive been just doing 1 Np for energy gain
lost idol
How do I play vanish with subterfuge. Do I always wait for pandemic to hit before using it? Even on opener with vendetta? Since I thought you'd want to use it with vendetta everytime
lone junco
exang and tb suberfuge ss are a bit diff
lost idol
tb
inner pecan
with SS?
lost idol
y
inner pecan
wait for your first empowered garrote to fully fall off
dark crag
In the opener you wait until garotte wears off and then vanish to reapply garotte
lone junco
the tb ss open is in the guide.
lost idol
ahh, but when the next vendetta comes
inner pecan
You hold your 2nd vendetta for ~20s
And now they're lined up again for the rest of the fight
inner pecan
neither
wait for it to fully fall off
No, for TB as well it's strictly more empowered garrote uptime
dark crag
Tbs 25 sec cd feels wrong
lost idol
so I wait for the weak garrote to fall off fully then vanish 2x garrote with vendetta
inner pecan
No waiting to fully fall off is only for your 1st vanish
lone junco
you can replace a weak garrote with vanish GG
there are weak aura kits that remind you when it is subterfuge
you let that fall off before vanish gg.
if it is a mid block vanish at 2;20. you can just refresh when vendetta and vanish are ready.
lost idol
hmmm,
so you're saying to overwrite weak garrote aswell?
or wait for it to hit pandemic ?
2nd
lone junco
the non empowered garrotes are highly irrelevant dmg wise. they provide energy tho
burnt raven
Anyone know why mutilate is showing up twice in wowlogs?
dark crag
Mainhand offhand maybe
jolly trout
Quick question Feint should work on Grongs Tantrum right?
rustic ether
@jolly trout yeah
jolly trout
ok just couldn't figure it out in the logs
lone junco
400 bijou from a box leaving my GCB in the dust.
ocean rampart
fickle obsidian
so how come you let empowered garrote fall off completely before applying another empowered garrote? (tb)
for vanish*
onyx rock
I played a full meme build today in mythic BoD... 3xSS, 3xNP + Exsanguinate. Was fun af... bursting 50k. And its acutally not as bad as i thought. Sims 22,5k.
civic palm
...
dark crag
Cleave build in a cleave raid
barren helm
Hi guys im no profesional rogue, and i have maybe stupid question, but:
Does nelf Shadowmeld is used for more dmg? Any impactful ?
And is it counted in sims ?
civic palm
You're also not very good at English (probably for good reason);
Either way, Shadowmeld cannot return you to Stealth while you are on bosses, so the uses are small for triggering SUBTERFUGE.
Shadowmeld can be used to get the benefits of Shrouded Suffocation though.
When you are not on bosses you can press Shadowmeld and then Stealth to return to stealth and basically reopen again.
@barren helm
barren helm
What is wrong with my english xD
civic palm
Just some words mixed around is all, fully understandable obviously.
barren helm
ufff xD
civic palm
Also yeah the damage is counted in SIMs, forgot to mention that.
barren helm
Thank you !
civic palm
Np bud :3
rustic ether
how much is a socket worth in rings?
inner pecan
around 15 ilvls or so
civic palm
^ ^ ^
rustic ether
@civic palm no need to talk about someones language skills (probably means they know another language)
civic palm
Hey notice how he didn't mind and took it as a joke because I made mention that there's probably a good reason?
Don't fight for him.
Also... #off-topic > _>
neon thunder
Btw if you sim training dummy, is that your absolute limit? Even if you play the rotation out to 1000% perfection? Cuz I have been practising rotations for like a long time (like weeks on end) for 5mins each interval, and my results fluctuate.
civic palm
There shouldn't be much fluctuation just remember that entering stealth for any reason is probably going to break your SIM/meter and reset the "encounter".
neon thunder
Hmmmm mebe that's why, noticed my Sims go weird when I'm not in a group and have someone also tag the training dummy.
frank fjord
I see NP is on top at herodamage but not at bloodmallet. Was there a change?
civic palm
Yeah the TCers fixed the values so haste is applied to the NP DoT as is does in game.
frank fjord
is that reflected in raidbots too?
civic palm
Yeah Raidbots uses the Nightly Build which is where these changes are found.
(or Weekly (old) if you chose to use that)
frank fjord
Sweet, ty
civic palm
👌
red zealot
So what combination of traits does everyone prefer to run?
civic palm
The ones that SIM the best and show results that I agree with.
lone junco
3dd is working pretty nicely. but 3ss is still my homey
cobalt gyro
cold horizon
Ive got 3 NP 2 DD and 1 poop emoji, and NP and DD are pumping damage, but i feel if there is ever more than a few targets, SS is still nice
strange python
Love getting a 385 bijou and it still sims worse than my fathoms
lone junco
check it in aoe.
strange python
Ye I'll prolly run it in m+
lone junco
ive been using it over gcb. due to movement. and jsut got a 400x so it repped
strange python
is Outlaw overhyped in m+ or is it better due to Reaping
hollow stone
The hype is real
raw tusk
50k on normal pulls is easy
karmic ingot
Does cloak remove the healing debuff on Mythic Conclave?
raw tusk
Does MA proc off shadowmeld?
lost sentinel
I wasn't getting 50k on normal pulls, maybe I suck though
visual quartz
blade flurry, do the things
weary arrow
I’d like to know if shadowmeld procs master assassin as well
frigid sleet
it doesnt
hollow stone
@karmic ingot no
karmic ingot
Thanks. Probably gonna start pulling that boss tonight and I figured it would be nice to know in advance.
raw tusk
Ok I was gonna say if shadowmeld did that would’ve been a huge button I was missing lol. It does proc SS tho?
civic palm
Yes
vast glacier
Newbie question: should I try to fit my finishers in the Elaborate Planning window?
civic palm
As many as you can, keep EP up during burst windows.
vast glacier
Even if I'm overwriting Envenom buff?
visual quartz
envenom buff is higher chance of psn application
vast glacier
Ok. Another question - does EP snapshot my DOTs, like Rupture?
vast glacier
Ok, thanks. So I should try use my finishers with as little time on EP as possible, ignoring Env uptime.
bleak spoke
Envenom buff uptime seems to be quite important for DD if you use it btw
lone junco
finishers cause EP. so after the first rupture you can maintain EP for a while. Its not the biggest concern. For a noob rogue. Maintain 98%+ rupture and Garrote. Then hit 2+ env during TB. if you are playing Subterfuge or MA KNOW THE DIFFERENCE
yeah. I would love 1 twist if i could get it.
vast glacier
Thanks 😃
lone junco
SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ FAQ IN PINS-->
vast glacier
Ehm, I read it, but there were no EP section, so I asked here.
bleak spoke
Clipping ep to maintain as much uptime as possible is probably good
lone junco
EP is a function of Crit. if you have low crit you wont be able to maintain it throughout the fight. looks like 72% is very good.
if you have an option to Env or rupture. right before EP drops off, then do that. thats called clipping.
vast glacier
Got it, thanks 😃
lone junco
tb would get the buff from the previous EP. but not extend it.
true fulcrum
Does twist the knife envenom extension stack with multiple traits?
fair blaze
Nah only dmg
main tundra
When holding paragon reps for next weeks catchup do I hand in the quests and hold the caches or just leave the reps 12000/12000 until reset?
rustic ether
hold the cache
the cache gives ap
but honestly i wouldnt worry that much its not that big a deal
main tundra
just trying to min max to get the +5 ilvl asap
earnest pilot
what gem for opulence
warm geode
ruby
fair blaze
tall basalt
how viable is hidden blades?
fading wigeon
@earnest pilot depends on how fast you kill. Opal is great the more adds you get. Fast kills emerald is great. Ruby is great if you want to help everyone else's parses :)
bleak spoke
Ruby is great if it’s on classes that aren’t pooling
rose perch
you can still parse like 90+ with ruby it's just not going to be 100
but yeah you have to stop pooling to keep the debuff active if you're the only one hitting
covert epoch
@main tundra theres an add-on which tracks how much rep over the turn in. If you don't have that already. It really helps keep track off it
round harbor
https://gyazo.com/d8ce8daf7591c7c833467786a64af6aa better or worse than agi pot?
lone junco
zzz math
round harbor
lol
violet sonnet
lone junco
the part about overlapping vendetta and vanish is true tho
lone junco
900 x 25 = 22500 agiseconds. 400x 60= 24000 agiseconds
lone junco
maybe outlaw would prefer the 60s. and the vanish round is stronger for the 25s one.
gl.
tribal marlin
but if you do clipping enevom into EP window, you might have not enough energy to correctly fit your mutilate into Evenom buff, so is that really worth it ? (especially giving multiple DD)
tired thistle
So does anyelse seem like the do more Damage on Meters with a Stack of SS Rather than two Stacks of Double Dose?
They*
fading ocean
other way around for me
tribal marlin
Well since I have 3xDD I usually focus on doing more mutilate into EP/Envenom window than clipping EP maybe i'm wrong.
bleak spoke
For grong is toxic blade really the way to go over exsang?
It seems to line so beautifully with exsang but I do less dmg 😦
Especially with the triple SS
tribal marlin
as much as I remember I always had my TB for adds without having to delay
but if exg make you deal more damage in ST you should keep sxg just sim
bleak spoke
I guess it’s signifantly less boss dmg with exsang if I give first vanish to the adds that spawn first tho
I’m just really unsure
Cuz dirt I played MA 3DD and that was trash
First*
civic palm
hmmm
civic palm
Depends on the rest of your gear, stats can skew SS to being kinda bad when compared to DD.
tribal marlin
all sims I did were telling me to keep my inge helm that I could replace with a SS+TTK one (even with subter)
but SS can be a good option since you really want to nuke thoose add fast
bleak spoke
yeh i'm gonna try 1 ss + tox blade subt
tribal marlin
well there is some chance you will not have exg for the add but you likely to have TB up without having to delay
well tbh since i'm carying the orb I prefer using inge helm for its defensiv trait :3
(because my only good SS piece is helm)
strange python
is crimson tempest worth in m+?
neon thunder
!ct
prisma monolithBOT
There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.
strange python
heyas, is envenom any good seems like a waste?
glossy kestrel
is envenom good? of course it is, it's one of our two finishers.
strange python
thanks
hollow gyro
lol tf
tribal marlin
maybe he's talking about m+ maybe
strange python
I am only lvl 38 just got it still working on even getting a full rotation in before the mob dies lol
😛
thorn tartan
No need of 80k envenom crits😄
tribal marlin
outlaw is nice for leveling
honest onyx
Hello, is alch trinket worth making?
wild ledge
@honest onyx no it’s pretty bad, Vers is our worst stat too
depends what else you have tho, just sim it to see
honest onyx
okey thanks
burnt dome
I’ve been trying to maximise my dps but doesn’t really seem to be working. I refresh garrotte on <5 sec, rupture on 4cp or more on <7 sec, unless they’re out of stealth/vanish, then I reapply. Normal rot is garrotte>rupture>garrotte>vendetta (+trinkets if I have em)>tb>spam env/muti.
I pool energy if tb is gonna come up or if vanish combo is gonna come up, other than that I don’t really pool.
In aoe I do fok and ct and keep bleeds up on +-3 targets so I can keep spamming. don’t have EB atm, but even when I had, I seem to do less than a rogue I often play with. I just don’t get it, I’ve been looking at parses and traits and gear and either I’m blatantly missing something or I’m just bad at the rotation or smth 😂 anyone knows what I’m missin?
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/aszune/Choclatekoek for fear/traits
brisk forge
Well its also comes down to use ur rotation according to the boss abilitys, knowing a fight is crucial for parses
Would be better if u link logs
14% haste is low
Need energy to spend on abilitys
bleak spoke
stats may change your parse by a few points but will never shift them dramatically if you play the fight right honestly
burnt dome
Idk why it’s showing the abilities in Russian but this is a fight where I didn’t RL much and was Zerg so shouldn’t have made much mistakes on rot here: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KwJLHAn3g8q1ytrM#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=19
golden relic
champions of the light is a pretty bad boss to compare parses on
u cheese to get a good parse there
bleak spoke
looks liek overall kill time should have heavily been in your favor tho
like 2:20 is a dream
idk even on heroic can get orange parses just spanking boss on ST, but probably need a much faster raid
golden relic
idk if u use that chest you have on armory as ST
should go TTK and DD on it
not echo and dagger in the back
bleak spoke
well for the fight bonded souls was used and that's definitely not it
i think that piece comes with SoB in that slot
burnt dome
Changed the chest since that fight yeah
bleak spoke
would hve actually been a pretty large gain on that fight in particular
cuz rupturing the adds would have given mega agi and some big pad
3 targets with rupture and sob is better than tc i'm 100% sure of
probably 2t if you lose any uptime
cuz of health related issues
vestal wren
can anyone quick link me a gear profile that is optimized for m+?
burnt dome
I could be missin something but what is ST? And I’ll change the traits, thanks
vestal wren
ST = single target
vestal wren
all fine 😃
bleak spoke
tht's a subject of heavy debate fuu :x
burnt dome
Picked Eb cause I run m+ a lot but definitely changing to DD. If only I wasn’t so broke I could change traits every day 😂
bleak spoke
well 3 EB is definitely the bit that isn't debatable with an optimal setup i think
vestal wren
i just want to sim how good saphir of brilliance compares to the agi pot
bleak spoke
oh
vestal wren
as for sub its ~0.3% weaker (on st and dungeon slice)
bleak spoke
wouldnt' ST always favor pot
cuz it lines with vendetta
and sapphire is just a minute of hey i hit slightly more
vestal wren
i assume the agi pot is logically better for sub
bleak spoke
on aoe would be different tho
i suspect there's barely any effect cuz agi doesn't affect EB
vestal wren
bc. the pot is used with shadowblades, hence a lower duration higher pot will outpeform the gem
bleak spoke
but gem would probably outdo ruptures if you got to the point of refreshing them
outdo pots*
if you got to the point of refreshign ruptures*
god what is coherent thought
problem is not sure that's even the right way to play the spec
cuz seli's build loosks really really good
bleak spoke
i'm assuming you're simming for like a 40s pack and an 60s pack to mimic tyr/fort
no it's armor agi and stam
you wish
YOU FKN WISH
xd
(i wish too)
(feelsbadman)
If it actually gave 400 of every secondary stat that would be absolutely nuts
vestal wren
ill test moment
bleak spoke
Prolong power has same description
I’d say that if you play a big fortified pack it might have more value
vestal wren
its actually agi :/
bleak spoke
Yehhhh
bleak spoke
But why
vestal wren
#1 without
#2 with gem pot
bleak spoke
It shouldn’t
vestal wren
also 400 x 1.09 is ~ 440
bleak spoke
I guess equip some random stuff and see if it changes
Is your gem from a 400 crown
Cuz it might have the value for the 385 one possibly
vestal wren
ohh its from 400 crown ye
bleak spoke
I have a 385 crown, I guess whenever I manage to pull a sapphire I’ll check it or something
Have gotten the healing potion one the past 3 days, not that I’m complaining
Big panic button for grevious 8D
bleak spoke
Not that’s probably even better for grevious
If you eat blood sausage the stat boost won’t override it
Same way fish feasts don’t override the versa food
vestal wren
it behaves the same way as food
bleak spoke
Yeh it’s pretty alright I guess
Idk I wish there were more combat buff gems and not as many sparkly shrink you teammate type gems
onyx rock
then people would cry if they did not have it
vestal wren
i like the head tbh, i got it in the raid with a /r 50 bc. noone else needed it and am happy now to have the gem and a potential head replacement
bleak spoke
Why shouldn’t they want to have it
There should be some incentive to raids like that
vestal wren
i was new in the guild
tiny arrow
@vestal wren It might be that it actually gets scaled with the passive Armor skills
vestal wren
and tbh i did not ask back others
tiny arrow
Since that's 5% primary stat
vestal wren
that would come to 420
tiny arrow
@vestal wren It actually does the same with agi pot, it gives 945 not 900.
strange python
I would like some insight/feedback. We are running some +18s hopefully +19s and higher today and I am so torn on traits now with two traits/piece. Even after looking at top players and their times 20s and so on I dunno what I want. High overall or high ST. I feel I have two maybe three options.
1: (3xSS, 2xNP, 1xEB)
2: (3xSS, 1xNP, 2xEB)
3: (3xSS, 1xNP, 1xTtk, 1xEB)
I know that one trait will not make or break a dungeon but I still want to be optimized as much as I can as my Sin. Any feedback? Ty!
lone junco
Do you have any 2ss 2eob 1/2 ttk sets.
1+ SS
2+eob
1+ ttk
35crit +(over 50 with buffs)
dark crag
I have 20% crit as ma st spec
lone junco
That's probably not a m+ kit though.
strange python
By looking at leaderboard We Will be depleting all night haha. I guess we go 16-17s . Rip
spice surge
The depleted runs are often the ones that give the best titanforges
strange python
That is true Eleem. We have 3x17TD and 2x17Freehold. That I why I thought we would be running 18s :) but ye, we will see .what traits would you have gone for @spice surge ?
spice surge
If im being totally honest i would go for 3x deadshot, because i havent been playing much assa this season in m+
But i know seli has been talking a lot about traits for assa, and he thinks as many EB's as possible, 1 ss and as many twist as possible is the best combo
I would probably say the one with the most EB, ie #2
cinder sparrow
ttk in mm+ ? 
strange python
Well it is Tyranical so you want that big ST. But I don't have that combo. I have to survive with 1 NP! :)
I mean 2xSS, 2xTtk, 1xEB, 1xNP also feels very strong. I have like 43% mastery and 30% crit so my bleeds and posions do really good dmg
I mean ye! Haha. we normally blind sap, cage sap. The after 2nd boss we use lightfoot up to canons. (Alliance) healer melds we meld/die. Kill everything with canons ;) so ye. TD is like... only ST :)
tender frost
Can someone explain to me when to properly use exsanguinate? I normally spec TB but I want to ttry exsang
theres no real explanation of when the best time to use it is
anyway, when someone does ahve time.. pm me please.
mellow agate
Anyone got any idea why quick sim sims 1k lower than best gear with the exact same input? https://imgur.com/a/I4ONZ2K
spice surge
Because its not the same input probably, besides just providing one link isn't helpful since we can't compare
warm geode
talents
mellow agate
same talents
spice surge
No
warm geode
nope
mellow agate
oh lol
spice surge
Different gear too, helm mostly
lost sentinel
How bad is siege this week?
marble hemlock
fuu said someone complained about getting kicked as assa in m+? :<
that heresy cannot stand!
we need to make assa great again
hollow stone
Sorry, outlaw is better @marble hemlock 
marble hemlock
no
hollow stone
Haha
Whoops
I said a bad word. People are ridiculous if they think sin is bad for m+
(It was another r word i originally tried to use, yikers)
hollow stone
It should be. I just whoopsied
lost sentinel
I just autoattack and continue to fan of knives
also, however good outlaw is, sin is performing really well for me anyway
3eb, 2sob, 1ss... love it atm
hollow stone
Sin is just as good as outlaw imo. Maybe even better on higher keys
But even just farming 10s, my overall dmg was usually pretty close between the two specs. Like, within 1k overall dps close
lost sentinel
I'll probably play outlaw some weeks, just to change it up if nothing else. Not liking my outlaw set atm though. Just need to keep collection azerite plus next week when I buy a 415 there is a good chance it sucks for sin but is great for outlaw
sleek cargo
Lol
strange python
@marble hemlock would you go
1; 3xSS , 2xEB, 1xNP
2; 3xSS, 1xEB, 2xNP
3; 2xSS, 1xEB, 2xNP , 1xTtk
Keep the sin dream alive ;)
primal gazelle
#1
marble hemlock
1ss, 2eb, 3ttk
for prio
3eb for heavier aoe, more ss if youve got more 3-4target cleave
primal gazelle
unless youre running 20+ keys, just focus on being a filthy padder
marble hemlock
pmuch ye
for pugs 3ss is probably a good strat
i just dont like being that reliant on getting restealths off
primal gazelle
95% of pugs will look at your overall damage, no one gives a shit about "priority" damage unless youre doing real serious keys
marble hemlock
pugs only look at overall if its a depleto and theyre looking for someone to blame
if youre doing your job right, even with low overall, no one will care cause you timed the key
primal gazelle
i feel like if you go for too much priority damage traits in pugs, even if you time the key, the other members will see your lower overall damage and be like pft you shouldve went outlaw 😛
marble hemlock
well, then you know better than them and can just ignore their ramblings
dusky tinsel
Only reason outlaw is better than assassin in M+ is because bladeflurry naturally dumps on reaping mobs, pulling 150k+ is easy as outlaw whereas ass rogue needs 3xEB to compete for that, so its very trait dependant. I've been running outlaw a good bit in M+ since it just does so much dps.
quick ice
Or worse, start only taking outlaws from then on.
marble hemlock
pretty on point, yep
assa has more flexibility to swap gear for specific dungeon settings, whereas outlaw runs the same shit everywhere
so right now its hard to make use of that flexibility due to the limited availability of high ilvl azerite, but thats gonna change over time and assa will reclaim its spot
and so will sub
dusky tinsel
My outlaw gear is very good too so it makes the swap easier, whereas I only have 1-2EB traits and 3 SS depending for ass rogue
marble hemlock
group only needs one guy to do huge burst aoe, usually thats the DH
dusky tinsel
I don't think sub will compete with the other 2, cleave shines harder than priority target this season. And to your point on DH burst AoE, good outlaw rogues output more.
spice surge
No sub will not compete for overall damage with outlaw
But that doesnt make sub worse than outlaw in every way
In the end, what matters is how fast the dungeon goes, not how much overall dps you have
dusky tinsel
I think the only dungeon atm that sub competes really well is tyrannical TD, just because of CP funneling into boss targets and the last 1-2 reapings (depending on skips) can just use the cannon. Where as normally the average 3 reapings are shortened significantly by a good outlaw rogue
spice surge
And no, outlaw doesnt have more burst aoe than DH
It has better sustained, but DH is the king of burst
Who cares if the reaping goes faster, if you have good sub/assa rogues with prio damage you can pull reaping with other mobs and make the dungeon go a lot faster
Than if you killed the reaping and then went on to ST the big mob
dusky tinsel
Just saying, you don't see any sub rogues at the top of the M+ ladder atm
all outlaw
spice surge
dusky tinsel
Sure it doesn't matter for 10-15 keys, but if you're talking about overall efficiency for time then there's a large bias for outlaw rogues and rightfully so
strange python
Well I am not running pugs so I allways get my restealths. I just wanna find a healthy mix of cleave, AoE and ST. All my gear have SS so the combo you say I cannot make :(
lone junco
same. If i dont get restealth cause of mongo tank, I want to /hearth. EB is nice.
at least guild tanks know better.
spice surge
Its not about getting a tank that is stupid, its that the time you spent killing that last mob solo instead of pulling him to another group is slowing the run down
In seli's case that is
So you can instead get other traits and keep chain pulling
strange python
Hmm, Ye I dunno what combo to make. I just came home and start looking. There are so insanly many combinations
dusky tinsel
Anything with SS and EB is usually a good pick. If you're having to take different traits because you're not getting resealths you either need to optimize vanish during chain pulls and then communicate to the tank that you need to stealth. If they're unwilling to let you or just an ape then its better to play a spec like outlaw where you only lose the 2 CP from ambush and can still output instead of taking sub-optimal assassination traits.
spice surge
Yeah im sure one of the best m+ rogues plays with ape tanks
robust cloak
hey guys, just a quick WA i made earlier that may be useful for anyone who feels like they're having too many "lol i'm not stealthed" moments - if this isn't allowed please feel free to remove this post, i'll drop it in the other spec channels as well! https://www.wago.io/Rp6WPHT0U
dusky tinsel
No one said that? He was talking about getting restealths
robust cloak
above aura helped me a little with making sure i get restealths as well
dusky tinsel
where does that even come from? 🤔 lul
robust cloak
the coloured tinge?
dusky tinsel
nah was talking about Eleem's comment
robust cloak
ah 😛
vestal wren
pls don't blunt advertise without anyone asking. thank you.
spice surge
? Seli said he didnt like relying on restealths, you said that his tanks must be apes
❓
dusky tinsel
I was replying to Noob
robust cloak
was just an attempt to help others - if it's not allowed, please remove
vestal wren
all fine, just dont if noone asked for it
dusky tinsel
and to clarify before cherry picking my comment in general, I said after optimizing vanish in chain pulling you then communicate for a restealth, if the tank is unwilling then he's most likely an ape
lethal mauve
What is it “ttk “ trait?
spice surge
Twist the knife
vestal wren
i assume the tank played with outlaw rogues a lot lately, hence they dont rly need to restealth
dusky tinsel
well I said specifically if they are unwilling OR just an ape then play outlaw
strange python
The reason why i keep askin, sorry, is since I am just so stuck in the SS for M+ thinking. and now with EB all I can see is SS-EB! But I know it is better to make a combo, I just don't know what combo and like what stats for that combo, it is hard 😛 (I play with Warrior Tank, R'Druid, Frostmage and DH). This week with tyranical and all I want atleast 1 NP and maybe even a ttk. But that is just me, trying to become better (@ 17-18 keys now)
dusky tinsel
NP isn't that great in M+, only take it if its all you have or if it has an SS/EB trait on it
ttk isn't great either
ttk isn't great in general, in any content
dusky tinsel
welp there you go
primal gazelle
can anyone link a log of someone using ttk?
i wanna see the damage breakdowns etc
dusky tinsel
if it was very good for priority damage it would be taken in ST raid encounters
primal gazelle
cos im not really buying it
spice surge
No, priority damage and ST is not the same thing
Priority damage is when there is 5 small mobs and 1 big. In that situation twist is good, becuase you can tb>env>fok>env
Doesnt have to be exactly 5 ofc, just an example
strange python
And Since I play with Frost and DH I want to have that prio, specially now with bolstering
I am still torn, thank ou tho for trying 😃 going to do 3xTD now.... Fun!
delicate crater
would you guys say TC uptime in M+ (13-15ish keys) is higher or lower than say Mythic raid?
primal gazelle
@spice surge can you link a log?
spice surge
I dont have any, if you dig through seli's VODs or catch him live you could probably get a breakdown
Not many people log m+
sturdy python
Ttk isn't taken becayse DD and NP out perform it in St usually. However in prio situations you don't mutilate
primal gazelle
vids and live streams doesnt tell u breakdowns
it just shows overall dps
i wanna see how many % dmg ttk actually adds to envenom
strange python
Ye the logs are scuffed I think. I am not that good and I have like 99,4
primal gazelle
logs arent scuffed, you just dont look at parsing %
you look at dmg breakdowns and try to compare it to your own
tepid oar
hey guys 😃 i have no idea how to play reaping waves as assa. so i wohls like to hear how you guys do it.
primal gazelle
get eb traits and spam fok
tepid oar
would
dusky tinsel
pretty much what Dayvanie said
spice surge
Spam fok, try to snipe a low hp target with rupture so you get lots of energy back
And continue fokking
sturdy python
Do you guys not pump finishers into lost and tormented souls?
spice surge
Well yeah, you dont fok at 5cp, then you use finishers
But fok is the strongest spell damage wise
primal gazelle
i FOK FOK FOK finisher as my rotation vs reaping, to keep up EP
your finishers will have less dmg per cast than fok vs 10+ reaping mobs
sturdy python
Yeah but risen soul damage doesn't matter much
dusky tinsel
Only time you dont spend CP on a finisher is if you have multiple EB traits
robust cloak
does FOK out do CT for up front damage at all times with EB? or does CT still do more up front damage at like 10+ enemies
dusky tinsel
If you have only 1 EB trait then its generally worth to throw out a CT or a few ruptures
spice surge
Yes fok does more upfront damage than ct
With Eb traits
Unless you dont get any crits at all
slim olive
Risen soul damage does matter, the faster they die the faster you can progress through the dungeon.
spice surge
Well, not every risen soul has the same hp
So it depends
All reaping mobs have 50% of the hp the original mob had
(it doesnt interact with counting bolstering/fortified)
sturdy python
Sure, but normally lost and tormented souls are the higher hp mobs
blissful saddle
This is an interesting question.... are you favor of the survival of those adds?
robust cloak
i'm only at 1 stack of EB and my general reaping rotation is fok > CT > fok > get rupture on 3-4 enemies for regen > fok > refresh ct > spam fok
primal gazelle
you can just look at your tooltip, if fok does more initial dmg than ct, (factor in some value for eb procs)
tepid oar
what is CT?
hollow stone
Ct is dead. Long live pb
dusky tinsel
crimson tempest
slim olive
lol
blissful saddle
Lmao
robust cloak
is CT not the best option in m+ anymore?
primal gazelle
HB boost my fok cast from 4k-4.4k average per hit to 5.5-6k (according to my own logs)
i need more data to see if that beats out pb/ct though
hollow stone
I havent used ct all season. As has been said, eb ends up just being better
Ct def has its place still. But its not just "go ct" like it was last season
delicate crater
so BiS for M+ would look something like 2/3x SS and 2/3x EB ?
hollow stone
As a general statement, this is not applicable in every situation. But on average if youre doing 15s or lower, 3ss 3eb is prob best. Once you start getting above that. Its best to swap one or two of those ss to sob (or ttk for more prio)
strange python
But never NP? Not even for big packs for the energy or for Tyranical?
ivory crow
hollow stone
Np is terrible in m+ compared to other traits. 1E/sec is negligible if youre spreading ruptures. If you can avoid it, dont run np in m+
delicate crater
stacking SoB discouraged?
primal gazelle
Now consider this,
Assume 10 targets, 40% crit chance (with buffs). 3 EBx, each proc does roughly 2.2k dmg. That's 4 procs for 8.8k damage to your "priority target"
Does TTK add more than 8.8k damage per cast to beat out the "priority" damage by EB?
Obv we can change the # of targets around to see at which point EB > TTK Priority damage
hollow stone
Stacking sob is fine. Its just not necessarily the best. Its like 3rd or 4th best in most situations
spice surge
1 TTK is about 3k extra damage per envenom (at 415) with my 35% mastery
Not factoring in tb/vendetta
primal gazelle
how many stacks
hollow stone
Good consideration. Im not sure my dude, havent been ttking myself. Just going off what others have said
delicate crater
I'm trying to get an idea of how to gear up for 15ish keys as sin. What I'm feeling so far is that is is MUCH easier to get BiS Outlaw gear from the raid than a BiS Sin setup
do Sins run the Engi helm for keys?
hollow stone
Helm from first boss is a good option but no eb. And i try to avoid tc for m+ since you definitely dont get as much uptime on it as you do in raid
vast forum
I disagree on that
strange python
Well I have the healm from first boss only.... so SS NP is my real only option here. I don't think TC + Grevious is very good
vast forum
Barring specific affixes, you shouldn't drop below 50% often
hollow stone
Im half ape so i get hit by cleaves and WWs like im getting paid for it
Im not saying dont run tc. Im saying i try to avoid it
delicate crater
I scrapped my 400 engi helm when I got the 415 helm from first boss. What are the outer ring traits for Sin?
trail bronze
DD/TTK
primal gazelle
@spice surge Assume 3k per stack, 10k extra dmg per envenom for 3 traits (being generous).
at 3 EB 40% crit rate, would require 11 ish targets to match the same "priority damage" as 3x TTK. This also excludes the massive aoe damage the EB offers to other targets. Thoughts?
delicate crater
so I guess you would run TTK and Barrage
spice surge
It also excludes TB and vendetta
primal gazelle
excluding vendetta bc i could vendetta to boost EB dmg too lol
assuming tb is always up for envenoms, 13k extra for envenom, require about 13-15 targets for EB = TTK priority damage
so in reaping 3 eb will do similar priority damage than 3 ttk
spice surge
Its also unfair to assume envenom never crits
But also, overall damage isnt the only relevant metric
primal gazelle
thats why i asked for logs so i can use more accurate numbers
i looked up seli's and he has no logs for season 2
i also dont understand when people say overall dps doesnt matter. Then why are outlaw rogues/DHs top meta for m+? Because they do the most overall dmg..
robust cloak
i'm guessing with TC, if you're at 40% hp, i'm guessing a global on vial is worthwhile?
tepid oar
so basically trait dependent playstyle for reaping waves... how does ss perform? triple garotte vanish, repeat? or not streng enough?
primal gazelle
ss is trash for reaping tbh
half the time you wont be able to get restealths, the other half, the mob will die before your garrote fully ticks off
thankfully we have eb to cover that area
tepid oar
bit outlaw sucks at pure ST^^
strange python
Do people stick to BiS gear anymore, or just what gives them the best sim rate?
buoyant coyote
you could argue Sub can be good in m+
@strange python depends the galecaller allays sims highest but in reaility hardest to pull off so most of time its 98% correct
But yea, check a bis list to go after (Stats-wise)
strange python
That’s what I’m doing, but I see people not use bis, but I’m not sure if that’s because that got a higher sim or it’s because it’s there’s only 400+ gear slot
hollow stone
Bis gear doesnt really exist because of titanforging and sockets. Aim for bis azerite and sim the rest
strange python
Okay
vast forum
Even bis azerite doesn't exist
royal lantern
it does....? for different situations does lol
lone junco
after the obvious few ss, In M+ aoe, with high crit, fok for 5cp each time, twist will help pump the Env dmg. for some ST prio in the packs.
I was glad to drop CT and focus on Envs.
after the 3g 4ruptures
sturdy python
Basically playing sub rogue without dance and symbols lol
hollow stone
Bis azerite for sure exists lol. Its just not the same bis for every single situation
hollow stone
Yea dude. I have 2 pairs of 400 jade shoulder ls and 1 pair of 415s lol
Might scrap on a week where im just short on TR for a new 415 but we'll see
What are your guys' thoughts on no on use trinkets for raid? I know its suboptimal for sims but curious to see if others think it may be viable given some fights. Fights where gcb is barf or where you cant vend on cd (or dont want to cause you need to hold for something specific). General question
I was using no on use this week on conclave and it felt good and my dps was better. I dont have a plumage tho
spice surge
If you want to hold vendetta for something specific, wouldnt that make the on-use trinkets even more useful? 🤔
hollow stone
Yea. It very well might, im thinking of it like tb on cd so you can get more tbs later in the fight. Same type-o-thought process
But then on the flip side. You might get a proc trinket to proc during a move phase and then youre just as screwed
lone junco
@hollow stone I honestly use Bijou over GCB due to movement. and not mad about it.
but i did just get a 400ilvl in a box.
hollow stone
Yea. Thats kinda what im thinking of trying out more in practice
lone junco
it was 0.1% loss at 385 and Ill take it
hollow stone
Without being able to hella cheese xsang idk if gcb is as good as it was
lone junco
My gcb is pretty low though.
hollow stone
Mine's 410. So im gonna use it 90% of the time. But idk
lone junco
GCB and Exang are all about energy. not the damage.
low lodge
I feel like GCB is bad for most fights tbh, bc of all the movement on the fights
hollow stone
Just thinking outloud
low lodge
It's very rare I get 100% of its uptime
lone junco
so any time I leave the circle E gain tanks.
strange python
Hiyas should assassination rogue use 2 daggers? or swords
simple meteor
strange python
ty
dark crag
You can try using swords but its not very effective
strange python
yeah just cant mutulate
lone junco
but no. 2 daggers
During early expac, I did a 4p20 2ss 5man entirely with a sword main hand.
it was pretty bad.
paper heron
Not sure why people complain about sin aoe mine feels insane
lone junco
right. i watched seli hold 105k for about 30 sec. well past the dh. who dropped back to 80k.
made me lol.
warm geode
do u guys can tell what pvp trinket is best for MA build, for PVE wise, conquest reward ( 400ilvl cuz i have trophy )
prob active versatility or active primary stat
idk what is better
hollow stone
The one that sims higher. I think its the medallion but cant remember
spice surge
The one which has on-use vers and passive agi sims higher yeah (medallion)
both have their merits though as the other one gives you a very significant boost to your vendetta burst, which could be useful for bursting down priority things
Although theres not much of that on the later bosses as melee
obsidian sierra
I got the one with agi on use in 425
Its 2,5 k
Its huge for openers or vanish re openers
lone junco
@warm geode have you always streamed? or is that new?
warm geode
always streamed raid
since legion ToS
this days kinda didnt cuz lag spike on jade fire, impossible to do the multistrike thing
ping down the detail
and inst even right, was 400ms
lone junco
does anyone here actually raid as SUB right now?
I saw some logs but they were like 2-3k behind assassin.
marble hemlock
grimzyo was streaming raid as sub
thick narwhal
the only way to really do well in sub is to already know the fights well enough to maximize your CDs, cause even 3 seconds of downtime punishes you
marble hemlock
he seemed to do well
thick narwhal
that's the real reason we have two charges of shadow step
marble hemlock
marble hemlock
did 22k on grong for example, doesnt seem that bad
thick narwhal
the dps difference is only gonna be 2-3k, but if a raid wipes at 1% HP, guess who the raid's gonna look at =/
thick narwhal
no no, it's always the hunter's fault
thick narwhal
he shouldn't have barraged those adds before tank picked up agro
round harbor
Not really
round harbor
The only thing about NP I don't like is that it shifts your dmg profile into even more of a burst or bust class
So if a fight is like 5:45 long or something it loses alotnof value vs a DD which is consistent for the entire fight length no matter the kill tim
That said I run one cause it "feels" nice in the opener with it
Can u trade any of those NP for Tc?
round harbor
Check the Sims, but that is what I'd do
strange python
yeah sims better when i change it to TC.
so hard to decide between outlaw/assa.
even tho they are pretty much the complete opposites 😄
round harbor
Both are viable. I prefer sin in raid for consistency from pull to pull. Don't wanna push a boss super fast or slow due to variance. Whereas on every pull of conclave for example the kill timings need to be precise
smoky fiber
I liked outlaw a lot more for uldir. For prog this tier sin seems to be the more reliable spec.
hollow stone
Sin is master spec. Dont let all these yellow names fool you
strange python
ive been outlaw since day 1 bfa 😄 only now considering a change
marble hemlock
what are all these outlaw peple doing here :<
smoky fiber
i've been playing assassination since the first week of mythic BoD no bully
marble hemlock
you got the wrong color then
hollow stone
Careful seli, i think they out number us now... at least based on channel activity :p
smoky fiber
na im an outlaw boi at heart changing colors would be fake
golden relic
Colors
marble hemlock
😦
warm geode
is so simple, play boths
fiery merlin
Is chargestone of the thunder king's court a PvP trinket? proc seems like trash and i cant find it on herodmg sims
warm geode
@lone junco btw i will be on for raid in 2 hours
cerulean walrus
Yes
vital haven
is it that realistic?
marble hemlock
its easier to see how good it is a full efficiency, and then you apply your knowledge of your raid and the bosses to think about how much you will get out of that max-efficiency
vestal wren
you can turn the uptime down if you want
vital haven
well i had at 90%
marble hemlock
so if its like 50dps better than another piece or trait, and youre expecting to be somewhat low-hp based on the logs of your guild
then maybe its not the best option
but as i said, depends on the encounter and how on point your guilds healers are
marble hemlock
😃
hollow stone
90% is more accurate than 100% on average. So if you wanna be lazy (i feel you) then just do 90%
Then if you do still use it, that extra 10% uptime is like a bonus
vital haven
600 seconds so like 90% uptime is 540 seconds
thats a lot of seconds you are not at above 50% health
cerulean walrus
Math.
vital haven
you know what fuck it dude, im just going with 90%
cerulean walrus
Yeah, if your healers are up to snuff and you don’t stand in shit that should be fine
hollow stone
Or. Wait for it. Sim 90 and 100, half the difference and boom, that's 95%
cerulean walrus
🤔
hollow stone
15 sec without it seems more reasonable
solid nova
cerulean walrus
I can’t handle the math
vital haven
or maybe i should be like dude im a fucking god i will never get hit by anything
and do 100
cerulean walrus
Just do 100. See the max efficiency
warm geode
was thiking here, they need to buff EP to 5sec
cerulean walrus
Nope
hollow stone
Yea. I do 100. But i get wanting to try to have it more in line with real raid fights
cerulean walrus
Too easy to have 100% uptime
hollow stone
Just make ep pandemic
hollow stone
Eep. Does delaying your first g that long really result in a better opener? I can see the logic but..
warm geode
the normal one is need or 4cp mutilate after rupture or 3cp mut + 2cp tb
hollow stone
But... just crit
warm geode
the delay is to get 2 mutilate with +50%crit chance
cerulean walrus
Just crit
hollow stone
Yea. I said i get the logic. But your missing out on a couple g ticks and E regen
I just dont know if thats worth
warm geode
atm will never, we lose the chance of vanish>env inside EP
so, will always be a bad thing with 4sec EP
hollow stone
? In either opener your ep uptime is the same. That part is irrelephant
warm geode
mut>rupt>mut(gcd)>garrote(gcd)>vendetta(gcd)>tb(gcd)>vanish>env(gcd) 4 gcd before env
hollow stone
Yes. We get that
Usual opener is the same gcds just diff abilities: g m r m vend tb vanenv blah blah
Im asking if you not using first gcd on g is actually better
warm geode
garrote>mut>rupt>mut(gcd)>vendetta(gcd)>tb(gcd)>vanish>env(gcd) 3gcds before , so inside EP,
i think im miss undestanding what u r saying, just saying current opening get the EP buff
and this "new one" dont
hollow stone
I have no interest in ep. What im asking is about your opener since it is not the normal opener
Does it result in more dps?
warm geode
atm, never, cuz EP, if ep was 5sec maybe
hollow stone
Now i get what youre saying lol, yeah. That prob would change it up
warm geode
and even if was same dps or minor loss, prob would be the new open, cuz is more reliable
till we get more crit
hollow stone
Yea. For sure. Still feelsbadman when you get that 2cp m in ma
warm geode
so sad
hollow stone
Its like a 2% chance with 25% base crit
cerulean walrus
Rest In Peace Mantle
hollow stone
But that is the biggest 2% ever it seems lol
cerulean walrus
They’d never do such a nice thing for us rogues though
hollow stone
Or like fer said, stop messin around and just do 100
cerulean walrus
We’d sooner have MA nerfed to 25
hollow stone
We already lost 2 sec
cerulean walrus
Just make everything 100
tough whale
if MA gets touched its adios
warm geode
we just gonna have to wait end of expansion
cerulean walrus
If MA gets touched we all just go subterfuge
warm geode
to get 50% crit
tough whale
Ye, its gonna scale very well
i mean im still using it, but thats because my traits suck and im being a ST mongoloid rn
warm geode
xD
tough whale
They dont suck theyre just all single target traits
hollow stone
It would be a shame to run subterfuge. Nobody ever uses that one 
I wish NS was good just so we could default to the move faster in stealth option
(Good for sin, i think its still go to for sub)
rough agate
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
vale dove
Heey, i want to check my logs (playing assa first time because i cant play sub dps wise anymore), what are the things i need to check to make sure im playing right? : D
hollow stone
The guide in the pins of this channel
For log review, there's great how to vids on youtube. The main thing you wanna look at for a new sin player is bleed uptime
You want as close to 100% as possible for both rupt and garrote
stoic spruce
i was literally about to ask a bonehead question about aoe dps..
dayvanie do you have a link
otherwise i'm going to get radical and google musclebrah aoe dps
spice surge
Its a very old clip which is highly inaccurate, but its funny
stoic spruce
ah 😭 so back to my maybe bonehead question then, i'm around 398 ilvl terribad rogue, been playing the class around 1 month, in mythic +, i feel i crap out on my team when we come into high aoe situations (like reaping). any suggestions / must have traits, i'm just running 2/2/1/3/1/2/1 traits are DD/relational norm helm, SS / Ancient bulwark shoulder, DD / SS chest. I can spec EB on the shoulders but raidbots doesn't show it as an increase, even in hectic add cleave situations
strange python
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
royal torrent
are y'all just topgear simmin all traits with each talent choice like TB/Exsang and traits like SS ? or is there any preference in the matter (in terms of single target)
hollow stone
@stoic spruce outlaw is easier to execute in m+ and is good for reaping. Maybe give it a go if youre struggling with sin
If youre set on sin m+ (which is also fine) then youre gonna want eb on your gear
@royal torrent sim sim sim
raw tusk
Does NP energy rgen stack
hollow stone
No. Just the dmg
stoic spruce
@hollow stone thanks, this is kind of what i was thinking, just need to pull a decent ilvl outlaw spec MH. what i don't understand though, is why EB isn't simming much higher in hectic cleave situations, than say, double/triple SS
raw tusk
So is it worth having 2 or no
verbal mantle
It's worth yes, esp for ST fights
raw tusk
Ok I’ve got 2 NP 3 DD 1 TC and wasn’t sure if it was worth getting a SS for one NP
hollow stone
@stoic spruce so hectic add cleave sims a fight where its a boss encounter that has adds that spawn. It is not an accurate representation of m+. The best tool we have currently available is dungeon slice (beta). This one is closer to actual m+ situations. It accounts for trash and bosses. However, its not perfect. It still weighs the boss heavier and does not account for reaping. The general consensus for sin m+ is 3ss/3eb. You can drop 1 or 2 ss traits for sob or ttk depending on what you have and what your goal is in your m+ group. Ss is strong for cleave, eb is strong for aoe, ttk is strong for priority target within aoe scenarios
Sorry for the brick wall @ everyone else
dry wren
Maybe I missed something on the clip earlier, but he exangs the one target without a garrote and only rupture. Wouldn't it have been better to exang something with the SS garrote?
verbal mantle
yeh dont pay attention
dry wren
Ahh, someone asks a genuine question and gets trolled, cool cool
verbal mantle
hollow stone
There was discussion about it being a fun video and not to be taken seriously
Or at least a comment by eleem saying that. And that eleem guy knows stuff about things
stoic spruce
@hollow stone just saw your message, yes had also simmed dungeon slice, and was surprised it didn't really change much but like you mention, as it accounts for boss that would explain it. really appreciate your comments, thank you
hollow stone
@stoic spruce no prob. Best of luck
distant axle
just a quick question, im looking to start raiding on my rogue again. I like outlaw and assa but is there a clear winner dps wise this tier?
subtle lynx
assa is the most reliable
lusty saddle
a question regarding meqqatorque! has it happened to anyone else but me that u cant see any colors above other peoples robots when inside one yourself "on heroic"
lean slate
anyone have a good UI/weakauras setup?
primal gazelle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
hollow stone
@lusty saddle nope. Closest thing we had to that in our raid was a color blind raider. He could still see the shapes clearly but not clear on the colors. It appears above the robot. I have a feeling when you see it youre gonna beat yourself up lol
lusty saddle
@hollow stone well its not that. i have killed the boss many times and have no issue with the mechanic its just that sometimes it does not show a color/icon at all over the robot i should call out colors for
raw fox
Can you not see the sedigns?
golden relic
sometimes u have to wait
raw fox
designs*
golden relic
like the icon wont show up for a few seconds
sometimes it can take a while
u just have to wait
hollow stone
uhm. Could it be that the person isnt in the robot yet? I know this sounds dumb but you never know
lusty saddle
@raw fox no signs at all
raw fox
Distance?
lusty saddle
@golden relic i know i satt whole duration once to be sure. its annoying as hell
hollow stone
Idk man, sounds like one of the other two people shrunked with ya will have to call colors lol
raw fox
Maybe an addon issue?
lusty saddle
@raw fox ye it must be, i have swapped from threatplates to kui nameplates
hollow stone
@distant axle both are viable. Theres no clear winner. Sin seems a bit more popular for raiding and outlaw seems more popular for m+. Both are good at both tho. Play what you like more
tranquil pivot
EP stands for?
vestal wren
tranquil pivot
Ah i see! Thanks.
olive wharf
Probably a really dumb question but does NElf Shadowmeld trigger Subterfuge's 80% bonus damage? I know it trigger's SS's 2 extra CP but unsure on the bonus damage part (I know it doesn't trigger the 3 bonus seconds of stealth)
Don't have SS atm, curious if I should be bothering with Shadowmeld during the alliance bosses
quick ice
No subterfuge.
Does get the SS bonus damage as well as the CP. Your choice if it's worth.
olive wharf
Is the SS damage bonus only from stealth too? I thought that was all garrotes and the CP is only from stealth.
hollow stone
Only from stealth
Or that trait would be brokenly op, or the dmg would be tuned way back
olive wharf
Well I learned something today, thanks 👍 Guess I won't be using it then since it does literally nothing without SS.
olive wharf
yeah no was talking just about Shadowmeld during those 3 alliance bosses
slender smelt
hey guys should i be using nothing personal over treacherous covenant or is the stats better overall than the dot every 2 mins?
olive wharf
I'm almost sure TC is better, but sims are your best friend.
On fights where you're constantly below 50%, TC will obviously be worse, but you're generally pretty high up on HP, esp as a Rogue.
slender smelt
yeah well i have 2 x TC if i get rid of 1 NP
orchid lichen
is it worth thinking about elaborate planning too much?
prime stirrup
Nope. Envenom buff is the one you want to clip. but even that isnt all that important
orchid lichen
aight
olive wharf
EP you never bother with. Just pick the talent and forget it 👍
Also I'm not the best rogue, esp since I just swapped to it like 5 weeks ago, but even Envenom I don't really care about.
prime stirrup
I would only suggest trying to keep envenom buff uptime at 100% in TB/vendetta window
olive wharf
100% Envenom in TB is a given unless you're not waiting for some extra energy if low.
prime stirrup
which means you are 100% going to be pooling energy going into those windows. so once again ep/envenom just arent all that important
more than likely you will lose envenom buff when you have to reapply garrote or if you need to refresh rupture. using finishers at less than 4 cp just so you can keep envenom buff up a dps loss and a resource waste
go away squawkk
lost horizon
EP clipping is sort of relevant, but only if you can hold a finisher without losing DPS (by dropping out of a dmg window or overcapping)
Shanksy is bad don't listen to him btw
prime stirrup
😛
lost horizon
prime stirrup
who would have thought this tier would make me go outlul
coarse quartz
might seem like a dumb question but back in wotlk/cata/mop there was hit and expertise and not hitting from the front due to parries and stuff... is that the same for BfA?
or did they remove the front parry mechanic
coarse quartz
chadlaw lol im gonna use that
olive wharf
Things parry unless they force you to face its front (Blockade last phase)
lost horizon
Like often if a boss has a fixed position (garothi worldbreaker in ABT for example)
Oh blockade is a better example
olive wharf
(or Luminaria)
lost horizon
More relevant
olive wharf
lol
coarse quartz
ok cool thanks
olive wharf
Or like Ragnaros in Molten Core.
coarse quartz
always behind all the time
prime stirrup
i still think on tyran its a waste to be outlul since trash is almost irrelevant but the meters bro the meters!
lost horizon
@coarse quartz outlaw, padlaw, chadlaw
coarse quartz
lmfao padlaw
lost horizon
You don't even lose much ST as padlaw though
olive wharf
@prime stirrup Depends on the key level. Reaping and bad trash affixes may still need OL's AoE. Depends also on your comp.
On some Tyr weeks, I have been asked to go sin though
lost horizon
You lose more going EB for sin
prime stirrup
im a professional key depleter.
2nd boss in UR on 18+ makes me want to play sin so bad. getting 4 tremors is so aids
lost horizon
Sprint CDR + grapple is nice though
prime stirrup
so is skystep potion
lost horizon
Gross
prime stirrup
never use 2nd pot on 3rd boss atal or 2nd boss UR
golden relic
@marble hemlock what azerite pieces u been running this week if youve done any u still running 2 TTK?
marble hemlock
its really nice for prio
chilly marsh
is there a way to sim ghost wave using dungeon slice ?
primal gazelle
Can you highlight envenom to see avg dmg per cast
primal gazelle
Log it next time 😛
desert vault
Err my brain is broke. Which trait is ttk again?
marble hemlock
envenom one
more damage on envenom per CP spent, and increased duration if you crit
desert vault
Oh sure twist, yeah
Durr that is. That is a good m+ trait? Huh. I think I was running 2x EB, 1x TC, 1x SS and maybe 2x SoB. Cant remember exactly. I always skip over ttk though. Guess I need to look a bit closer to it.
lost horizon
With PB I can see it playing pretty well
Just probably only worth in keys where packs last long enough
lost horizon
For you to get ruptures out and sustain env spam
marble hemlock
and since youre running highcrit in dungeons, you get some good ST value out of it as well
desert vault
Yeah. I might swap a SoB for ttk cause I think my one piece has both on same ring
Yeah nice to balance out EB with ttk prolly
@marble hemlock do you run ttk much on weeks like last week with fort+teem or even just fort weeks?
marble hemlock
dont really got a choice in terms of azerite, but i planned on using ttk before s2 even started
its just nice to be able to get prio damage with just tb+spamming a few envenoms
due to highcrit we generate a lot of CP, so its somehwat subrogue-esque
generating 4-5cp every fok, and funneling that into 1 target with tb if necessary
saves a lot of time to ensure mobs die evenly, which then translates into being able to restealth for reasping
desert vault
Right. I always liked ttk but it never got much play I found. I have pretty much always played PB though so my mind is always around envenom. I haven't been playing much in s2 though. With an SS trait and running subterfuge does it make sense to 3x garrote on reaping pack or something else from stealth?
marble hemlock
depends on the composition of the reaping pack, and whether you play it with another trashpack or not
if theres a lot of low-hp mobs it makes more sense to just garrote 1-2 mobs, then pop a rupture on one of the low-hp ones to get the energy refund on kill and spam the living shit out of fok
while sustaining energy by rupturing mobs that are about to die
bleak spoke
it actually feels so good to play with a ttk
marble hemlock
and just have EB carry AoE
bleak spoke
super glad you recommended it
marble hemlock
just did an atal, was doing more prio than subrogue if i popped tb+vend or had enough CP generation from reaping
assa prio is pretty damn stronk
desert vault
Ok. I was probably spending too many ruptures of reaping pack. Was putting out 2 to 3 I stead of one
bleak spoke
70k envenom crits 💯
marble hemlock
yeah, reaping isnt really comparable to a regular trashpull
gotta play around the energy refund on mob-death quite heavily
bleak spoke
it's surprising, i feel like reaping's actually the easiest part of dungeons right now
bleak spoke
eyh
marble hemlock
where you have 15 casters
bleak spoke
that first pull
and the csters on the stairs
it's pretty terrible without a dk lol
primal gazelle
you just drag the last 5% up the stairs to where the casters died