just follow guide then
#assassination
warm geode
@honest needle is not why someone didnt follow the guide and make a "mistake" and got good parse, the will be the "truth"
if the guy opened with mutilate, or fok
is cuz he wanted, maybe luck maybe he saw something for that fight
honest needle
i just didint kno if it weas normal to open with mut instead of garrote which no ss and ma
which i thought was weird
warm geode
maybe a missclick
honest needle
ya thought so
thats why i was asking
i thought maybe with ma and no ss that was normal
serene hinge
you should really just look at the assa guide
honest needle
thats why i asked
ive saw it
i kno how to play with ss and subterfuge and ive seen the guide for ma im just not a fan of it.
i guess i gotta just get use to it
thorn tartan
Maybe to get mut rup Mut in ma time
honest needle
i really hope wow gets rid of this azerite trait bullshit
it really is anooying and awful
especially if u play multiple classes/specs
and for raid and m+
honest needle
its the worse thing the game ever added
thorn tartan
I just want that last dd 415 chest
woven compass
the traits themself arent bad
honest needle
atleast last expansion the relics were ok
woven compass
the annoying part is them not being farmable
honest needle
no there not bad just the system is
i dont wanna change traits everytime i raid and do mythic plus let alone change them if i wanna try a different spec
its way 2 much
steep obsidian
ramping it up to hundreds of thousands of golds is the dumbest shit ive ever seen
thorn tartan
I got like 6 400 items and 7 385 so i got quite a lot to choose from
honest needle
according to the guide it says this Master Assassin talented
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Vanish
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
but the video some 1 linked shows different
the video shows vanish after u vendetta tb
the video shows this https://gyazo.com/efc6df89ef6a39389d3300d7c0313ccc
thorn tartan
Just try it š¤
honest needle
vanishing right after vendetta seems weird some 1 else here also said they did no ss with ma
so i was curious whihc rotation they follow
honest needle
have the guides on ravenholdt benen updated ?
thorn tartan
Vendetta toxic with 5cp - > vanish env Mut env
pseudo mountain
From the Thumbnail it seems he mutilates after Ven/Tb to vanish then and open with env
warm geode
titanforge my friend, titanforge
serene hinge
mmmm, if your team is lacking boss damage in tyran?
thorn tartan
Depends on dungeon and grp setup
warm geode
@strange python personal feeling and i use EB so, prefer spam fok then CT
serene hinge
ever run Hidden Blades?
kinda wanna try lol
should be pretty fun with reaping at the very least
pseudo mountain
I have my problems with CT. It seems worthless je you don't get a big pull and the mops don't live long enought
serene hinge
it scales better into high keys, and has no rng element
warm geode
@pseudo mountain yeap, i give up of CT
serene hinge
but yeah if you do a +1 it's probably not going to do shit
pseudo mountain
Im running mostly 11 to 13+ and it is mostly not worth it for me
serene hinge
idk, i've done dungeons with havoc DH and Frost mage as the other 2 dps
and i still do pretty well in aoe with CT
maybe stats are different?
round harbor
The thing with CT is if your tanks don't pull for it it's a waste
serene hinge
how many targets for it to be "worth"?
round harbor
And pb is passive dmg that allows you to fok and rupture more things
serene hinge
i admit i havent seen teh math on it
round harbor
4+ consistently imo
round harbor
Depends on the tank and keys
serene hinge
like there are obviously specific cases you do
but overall trash i dont think i've seen many pulls of like just 1 or 2 mobs
warm geode
we can solve this CT x PB so fast
round harbor
I'd say try a dungeon with similar group with both. I think you'll find pb is better to play, and roughly equal dmg
warm geode
just play outlaw for DG
warm geode
me to
warm geode
^
round harbor
Utility
serene hinge
iron wire?
round harbor
Slows for Honor guard packs, silences for auger, jug, confessor, witchdoctor
round harbor
Does insane boss dmg on the first and last boss
serene hinge
idk if i agree with the boss damage bit
so far as in like that's what you look for
it's all additive right? i just look at overall
round harbor
Overall it's gonna be lower
But overall doesn't tell the whole story
And never has
Otherwise nobody would've played sub
serene hinge
do people still play sub?
round harbor
Not really
serene hinge
so...
warm geode
from what ik, sub ST is more strong then assassin atm
round harbor
Only a few hold outs and one tricks
In Noche situations. Not in realistic scenarios though
Niche
warm geode
pure ST i mean
serene hinge
idk i still kinda feel overall matters more in the end. like sure you can say someone is highest on ovearll b/c they're just shitting on reaping adds
but that's still shit you need to kill
and the faster the better
round harbor
Yeah no
grizzled jay
Despite sims, you guys think it's ever a good idea to run Exang in raids?
serene hinge
only instances where case by case scenario matters is if your damage can't make the check for priority adds
round harbor
The only dangerous reaping pack in the game is the first one in shrine
warm geode
there is no win on this argument, everything depends on what is needed, comp, key ilvl, affix, everything
just play what u play best and improv
raw tusk
Is one ss necessary
grizzled jay
I have bis DD setup and exang with SS sims 500 lower but I feel whenever there is movement I miss out in toxic blade. Maybe it's my errors
warm geode
SS isnt good anymore for ST, was at udyr cuz array lvl 10, bunch of haste
but any cleave, SS > DD
grizzled jay
Sure
serene hinge
500 is pretty big xD
raw tusk
Do you guys line it up or just pop it when itās up?
round harbor
Tb on cd
warm geode
i think exsg is way more easier to play @round harbor
heavy trail
2ss 2dd 2np, no tc, feelsbadman
round harbor
Exsang takes set up. Tb u push when it's available
raw tusk
I assume youād re apply garrote and rupture before tb
warm geode
tb u have to pad energy time to time, looking the cd , exsg just smash dots ( doing the same as tb ) and press combo when ready
round harbor
You should. But it's not gonna effect that much different
U don't pad energy
U push it on CD lol
raw tusk
I would save a bit of energy
warm geode
u pad wnergy from when comes off cd
round harbor
Negative
raw tusk
Get more outta it if you pad some
round harbor
Negative
warm geode
@raw tusk nope
round harbor
Any global u arnt casting you aren't gaining by using the energy later
warm geode
u need use on cd like @round harbor sayed, but u pad energy before comes up
pseudo mountain
Just refresh Pots beforehand to Sie TB in cd- done
raw tusk
Thatās what I mean Bruno
pseudo mountain
*dots
warm geode
yep
heavy trail
pool energy BEFORE tb comes off cd
round harbor
Your likely gonna get 2-3 max
round harbor
With or without energy padding
warm geode
btw using tb at 5cp is worth
round harbor
It's way more dependant on mut crits
strange python
two EV in TB window is the goal, right? I feel like rupture always falls off when TB comes up
warm geode
over spend 5cp then tb
grizzled jay
Tbf I was bored on a heroic clear. Exang made my parse lower but had better on rastakan at least. I do enjoy exang more due to using it so much in m+.
warm geode
@strange python 3
heavy trail
@strange python refresh rupture once with 3cp and youre done š
so you desynced it once and youre fine.
warm geode
@grizzled jay exsg/sub/ss is more smooth i agree, but at the end, damage is what is needed for the progression
grizzled jay
Definitely felt smoother that sfor sure
heavy trail
exsg sub ss needed more cd usage planing beforehead, so for progression tb is still better.
warm geode
we just sayed, tb u need planing all the time
raw tusk
Iāve preferred MA over sub ss exsang
heavy trail
fights like mythrax eg. i allways had an exact pattern in my head, when to exsng etc to not loose one usage in the fight but get the most out and get the most priority target dmg.
raw tusk
You need to plan for it 5 seconds prior lol itās not hard
grizzled jay
MA is sad when no crit. Feels like a lost talent
heavy trail
exsg needed a whole fightplan in your head, tb is 8 seconds before it runs out
true fulcrum
Is Dooms Wake really the best option for me to take based on this sim, and if so do I just macro it with vendetta? How do sims deal with on-use trinkets? Do they assume they are used on cooldown?
warm geode
@heavy trail what??? the same argument for exsg can be made for tb
grizzled jay
Pulling before TB if you don't delay the TB is fine.
warm geode
refresh rupture before exsg and u will be fine
heavy trail
i had a4 papers per fight writen down timings, when to vanish exsang etc, maybe delay it for xalzaix etc, tb is just -> dont delay it >3 secs or you might lose a usage
grizzled jay
Damn you're hardcore
heavy trail
ok, so you dont wanna get most priority target dmg out of it, only log padding.
i understand.
true fulcrum
Speaking of TB... if you have 5 combo points and TB comes off CD is it better to envenom and then TB or TB and overcap?
heavy trail
overcap
raw tusk
Tb overcapacity
warm geode
@heavy trail i realy undestand what the point is comming from, but u can do the same for tb, if u r talking of extra add u can think to dot boths for more energy inside tb and get 4/5env align with time
heavy trail
you get the damage anyway of tb, tb is 1 cp so 20% of an env, buffing 1 env and losing the cp is 30% more env dmg, not exactly but like this š
strange python
How much would be pref to pool? I finally got my MA to sim better yesterday and used it in raid. It was very nice and I tried to find a good point to pool to. What is the pool? Pre TB?
warm geode
tb on cd, plan pool before @strange python
grizzled jay
You pool as long as you want. Just dont delay TB
raw tusk
And you can prob get another 5cp envenom in
round harbor
Can y'all show me where it says to pool
Really like to see evidence that it's better
strange python
I know that @warm geode but how much do I need to pool. That was the question
raw tusk
Why wouldnāt you want to use the nature damage move as much as possible during an 30% nature damage buff
grizzled jay
It's a marginal dps increase. But a dps increase
warm geode
well, all bar would be good, if u can EP before and have energy , i belive, even better
grizzled jay
Getting 2 envenoms maybe even 3 if lucky because you pulled is better than one
warm geode
@round harbor is not from the head, ppl already did the math, just isnt on the rotation guide, cuz rotation guide is mostly for open
but since legion, when i start to look and play, is worth to pad energy before tb, without delaying
true fulcrum
Is Doom's Wake always supposed to be paired with Vendetta?
vivid bone
well, it has the same cooldown, so why not
raven mica
vivid bone
what he said
raw tusk
^^
cerulean walrus
Just got 415 engi goggles
Cause I haven't been lucky enough to get mythic champs helm yet
cerulean walrus
Thanks man
raw tusk
What are the traits on the engin piece?
thorn tartan
Dd Gizmo op
raw tusk
Thatās solid. Anyone know just how much you can sim at one time if your a raidbot Patreon
winter moss
12million iterations
but you cant force feed it with 100k iterations over 2,2 mil
gotta use smart sim
raw tusk
Is it a pain or worth it?
quick ice
tbh 100k and smart sim basically do the same thing
winter moss
yea
raw tusk
Isnāt smart sim the default? What do you guys usually run for settings
bleak spoke
Simming just tells you whatās probably decent, if itās hyper close then feelycrafting it is 100% better
warm harbor
do auto attacks apply the ruby debuff on mythic?
bleak spoke
Cuz sometimes youāll get run the same sim a few times and itāll vary by like 10-20 dps in favor of different options
No
To ruby
winter moss
simming isnt the god sent answer you wanna hear. you gotta evaluate the outcomes
warm harbor
alright thanks for that lettuce
raw tusk
Yea sims are just a great baseline
But it does sim a perfect fight which isnāt realistic
winter moss
i mean galecallers sims 1,5% upgrade but try using that shit on rastakhan mythic in p4
raw tusk
Anything like that is a bad sim
bleak spoke
Any presence of adds that you can dot for resources, multitarget with uneven hp, phases of invulnerability everything like that will make it so you do a lot more or a lot less dmg than what you sim for
raw tusk
The Kul Tiran cannonball sims high but same thing applies
winter moss
cannonball 
bleak spoke
Cannonball trinket is megameme
winter moss
kinda want cannonball barrage back
quick ice
RIP cannonball barrage never-never
raw tusk
Lol I know any stationary trinket like that is rough
winter moss
the mine trinekt from antoran high command 
bleak spoke
Also if you fight the eels in shrine they drop to the bottom of the pool which is gr8
The cannon spawns I mean
raw tusk
The one time blizz is realistic
winter moss
you gotta say the eels in sots are somewhat broken anyway
bleak spoke
yeh
winter moss
that random reset when you pull em on the platform
bleak spoke
at least they don't really get affected by most affixes anymore
winter moss
sanguimeme
bleak spoke
still a garbage affix in the randomest dungeons but it's so much less garbo now
raw tusk
Side note anyone see any predictions of when the KT Humans are coming out ?
winter moss
8.1.5
bleak spoke
when zandalari trolls so i don't have to rely on my healer anymore :^)
thorn tartan
26.02
raw tusk
Ugh I just wanna be one already
thorn tartan
When last lfr releases
thorn tartan
Just speculatiin
winter moss
the first thing ill do this day
raw tusk
Yeah same
quick ice
probably week after that
raw tusk
I was hoping sooner rather then later. Iām moving and gotta put down first last and security and was hopin to change before paying that lol
thorn tartan
So 2-3 weeks from now
raw tusk
Not a bad idea
Should get my direct deposit in an hour might just do it right away and forget
chilly thunder
When doing aoe pulls should i be using every global on fan of knives or should i still spend 1 global on spending combo points to spread bleed, so fan - bleed - fan - bleed etc
quick ice
need energy to fok, so bleed them up
chilly thunder
Ah alright, but should i keep bleeding them till everything is dead or is like 5 targets enough to keep FoK, or is that just something i need to get a feel for. So if i feel i can keep fanning i should stop bleeding targets and just go 100 % fan
strange python
I am guessing this is for M+? In my opinion, maintain rupture on 3-4 targets for energy. If you want pure AoE and you have CT you should use FoK-CT-FoK. But for example this week. I would say you should go poison bomb.
- It is tyrannical you want that ST.
- It is bolstering making you want to FoK-Envenom-FoK-Envenom. To kill them all at the same time. Using the small mobs to feed yourself CPs to kill the big mob
Basically a AoE sub machine similar to using sub spec on Zul but you actually do AoE aswell. It is very very strong
Just try to make sure that the big adds have the rupture. And even if you don't have 1 mob that is bigger than the rest. Let your other two dps do AoE and you deal with evening them out with Envenom.
quick ice
reaping makes up a smaller percentage of the dungeon than people think
strange python
Not really. Sure it is lower. But you want Reaping AoE go Outlaw. If you want high AoE, every pack, good ST and good Prio. Go Assa with PB
arctic harness
Thats a pretty black & white way to look at it chief
strange python
And if a PB procs on reaping you have higher AoE aswell
royal lantern
imagine getting PB procs when you need them 
lament dove
it's not only PB... by not caring for CT, you have more ruptures, more energy, more FoKs (EB), more DP dmg
arctic harness
During reaping its not worth spending combo points when you have enough ruptures
If youre running pb
lament dove
so it's not purely PB dmg vs CT dmg you have to consider
arctic harness
Intitial CT damage on 9 targets is worth the global already
Not considering the dot
strange python
Ofc it is. You want Envenoms on the big reaping adds
royal lantern
caster adds are more dangerous then the elite adds on reaping waves imo
the lost soul aoe is not hard too dodge.....except when it is invisible cus of clipping
strange python
Has nothing to do with that. Just LoS . What I see so many people have is 2 adds left after all other mobs in the reaping wave is dead. Everything should die at the same time. And a Vanish 3xGartote on casters + a grip or AoE stun and you are fine anyway. Just Envenom the big mobs. Atleast that is what me and my group like to do. They even want me to go 1xTTK only for that
royal lantern
why should everything die at the same time....? they dont bolster
its more of a ''kill a big bulk fast cus of the tank debuff''
knotty dew
that's an easy one to sim
lethal mauve
+100dps whith 2dd but I dont understand why
lethal mauve
409ilvl 21300k dps it so low
strange python
It has nothing to do with bolster. It is just better to prio dog big mobs than have them solo after the wave. I do the same if not even more dps doing that
knotty dew
with exsan you probably want SS over DD, but depends on the length of the fight, and sim can only tell you "for sure"
strange python
And the tank debuff have I never ever seen to be a problem. I am not on 21s and stuff but I run like 17-19s so there it should hurt. But it doesn't
golden relic
k which of yall sin boys are running x3 DD x3 NP , and can u show me some logs
arctic harness
3x NP? Why tho
quick ice
with new fixed NP in simc, 3x NP technically sims better than TC I believe
I could be wrong
golden relic
word on the street is TC is meh and x3 NP is what pure ST wants
lethal mauve
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/zBCqEy7ZqDovCarRuemMw I lie about ilvl and dps
grizzled jay
Interesting
quick ice
I'd personally like 2x NP, 3x DD and 1 blightborne
grizzled jay
Ill try resimming then maybe smth changed
strange python
Yes it does. NP Sims best Patchwerk ST. I still don't think you should have 3xNP.
arctic harness
I mean, in a 5 min Sim where you can optimally die vendetta with everything up it might Sim well but its really inflexible in that regard
rose perch
on the other hand on any fight where burst damage is important, NP will perform even better than the sim
arctic harness
Yeah, so it depends on fight duration and style
rose perch
in most cases it looks like top logs are full of 2x and 3x NP builds
golden relic
Im just curious to the topic of using x3DD x3NP for jaina
strange python
I guess I could try(unlucky with raid traits) 2xDD, 2xNP, 1xTC, 1xTtk
golden relic
I wouldnt say thats a bad combo
ttk is pretty nice trait when running toxic blade MA
strange python
Sure it is not bad. But I want 3xDD x)
golden relic
some big envenoms can come out of it
strange python
Ye I noticed last night
Well I'll just try 2xNP instead of 2xTC next raidday then
obsidian girder
should i go DD + NP instead of DD + TC in my helm ?
i sim so fucking low because chest and shoulders, this system is shit
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fimyVD6ELkGWruk2yQPevX
harsh raven
So DD, NP and TC performs better than SS on cleave-fights in the new raid? Or are you speaking of only ST fights now (not that there are many pure ST fights there)
I sim only slightly lower with SS than DD at the moment
golden relic
You will always sim lower with SS over DD due to the fact u probably sim patchwerk
but we were discussing pure ST , yes
Mekkatorque, Blockade, jaina
harsh raven
got it
golden relic
whether it would be more beneficial to run x3 DD x3 NP
harsh raven
no, thinking of small cleave
golden relic
I mean , rastakhan isnt rly pure ST is it considering 2 set of adds have to die and the occasional totem , but i get what you are saying, the ST is the majority of the fight and worth going for
quick ice
you won't be vanishing garrotes onto the adds probably though so SS doesn;t add to your cleave?
note: not up to rasta mythic
golden relic
Think the ghost adds align with 1 vanish , but ive not played assa there at all . But ye its barely worth anything
plush hill
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hoscXy8m95adZmJctXfxeo For the person who asked about 3 NP traits
plush hill
Ye that would be sweet! Currently working on getting 2 extra pieces so I dont reroll 24/7 from outlaw and waste my gold! š
grizzled jay
Anybody else get quite a bit of lag on abilities when play outlaw? Seems loads of haste really ruins it.
The game I mean.
plush hill
I only get it in Orgrimmar
harsh raven
Do you swap around much with azerite-traits from boss to boss? Or do you have a cookie-cutter combo that works for most
plush hill
For outlaw im limited to 3 pieces atm which is x2 deadshot x2 covenant x1 wits x1 ace. Kinda the same for Assa.
golden relic
@grizzled jay think alot of ppl mistake procs with lag
like getting an extra Sinister strike from the buff
cause ppl tend to spam like assa
and then all of a sudden you are overcapping combo points
plush hill
and that works for 95% of the content you can do as outlaw
golden relic
I mean
harsh raven
cleave AND ST, yeah š¦
golden relic
when has the game ever been use 1 set of gear all the time
if u played competitively it never was
lethal mauve
Nice new changes in bfa and you want still drop 2x 425daggers whith slots
harsh raven
I have done alright with one set, but am ofc more casual. 99% logs is ok I guess
(last tier)
arctic harness
@grizzled jay try adjusting your spellqueue window, blizz set it to 400 up from 250 which makes it feel laggy
You need an addon like advanced interface options to do that tho. Set it from 400 to 200 and it makes a world of difference
Oh thats even easier
atomic hamlet
What is more trustful ?
Raidbots 5min sim => says Blightborn Infusion over NP
Herodmg => says NP >> Blightborn
grizzled jay
I already have it at 250 and my ms is 40. Even with exang and bloodlust up it starts to fall apart. Been having this issue since Legion. I dont remember Catacylsm combat having this issue
strange python
What is it you want to achieve with that command? Reduce the lagg while in combat so you don't need to spam buttons to time them?
arctic harness
Its basically the moment the game locks in your next ability. If its too short you need to be spamming to hit that window to be on time for your next ability. If its too long your spell is locked in too far in advance so its hard go respond to procs
strange python
Well I have that issue. Doing mutilate for example I want to see how many CPs I get. So I need shorter?
arctic harness
400 ms is too much for any spec imo. I would lower it if you havent changed it yet
You can experiment with it, see what feels good. Depends on your latency as well.
strange python
I have not changed anything. So I will try
arctic harness
Use AdvancedInterfaceOptions, it gives you a slider
strange python
Ah ok. Well that is also an issue.... I have good internet but I still lagg sometimes. Guess that is only the servers
worldly ledge
What do you think ybout 3 EB with Hidden Blades 30% crit 10% versa. it looks quite good for reaping
strange python
Why so much vers? And why hidden blades at all. Go PB or CT :) a lot better
worldly ledge
its just theory I wish to try, thats all
quick ice
I can imagine it would do mongo damage on that one fok during reaping though, sure
strange python
I understood it was a theory, what I ment with asking why is since I don't see what you want to gain from it. Insanly huge AoE on Reaping for the first like 2-3 seconds. If so, then yes, you would be correct. But I don't think that is very good overall at all
arctic harness
strange python
You need more Mastery probably
bleak spoke
to be fair it will stack to 1 if you spam fok
you still get some benefit out of it i guess
jesus my fully stacked FOK says 17.9k on the tooltip
strange python
You have 3EB?
grizzled jay
I got the pistoleer spaulders 415š š š
grizzled jay
It is? Didn't play yet
bleak spoke
534 vs 465 for the FOK increase, 1066 vs 927 for the echo
that's 415 to 400
have 4% versa if that changes it significantly (probably not)
shrewd plover
Where i can find the abbreviation for assa rogue ?
shrewd plover
tks
tiny arrow
Hmm. Making 4 JC rings, and all of them are heavy versa weights.
bleak spoke
expensive š¦
tiny arrow
ye, 300k gold down the drain.
lament dove
I don't even have 300K lol
I'm gonna be in trouble after a couple more stacks of agi potions
grizzled trail
are u guys throwing bleeds on robots on mekkatorque fight?
trying to workout why i cant log decent on that fight
vestal wren
parses on mekka depend on how many mechanics you need to play
if you are lucky and only get few/none you have a high parse
crystal barn
hey should I delay my second use of vendetta to line up with vanish?
vestal wren
e.g. i only had to run out 1-2 times and only got shrunk during fly phase so i was able to get purple/orange
sturdy python
Yes tenshe
crystal barn
ty
bleak spoke
not subterfuge but shrouded does
for one cast of garrote
i've heard that people save it for the second exsang
if you're not in boss combat it's basically vanish
umbral phoenix
Not to change subjects back to reaping - but I tried HB and CT this weekend. HB sucked - but CT was just OK. But on Tyrannical weeks - I have a hard time not taking PB for the boss dmg. What is everyone's optimal aoe rotation? I have one, and it's ok - just want to hear different opinions.
robust axle
Do people just stack SS and EB for m+ now?
strange python
Many do that yea.
robust axle
And talent Hidden Blades I assume?
frozen gorge
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
strange python
No, never do that. Take PB this week
frozen gorge
Hello guys, any advice to get azerite gear faster ? should i keep high titan residum or gamble ?
vestal wren
well, you know what you where doing there
rose violet
@hollow cloud youāre my hero
hollow cloud
Im a man of the people š
eager kernel
whats the story behind it dont watch him really
vestal wren
a educational video with a lot of wrong information from him
rose violet
Hope this becomes as big as reckful missing lethal at blizzcon
eager kernel
aa that clip
dark crag
40k it's over
night vale
okay i understand the meme now. Not being funny though but where is the AoE rotation covered? cause i couldnt find it anywhere
dapper moat
hmm 2x nothing personal or 1xNP and 1x Covenant? on raid
marble hemlock
gotta appreciate the vendetta+exsang on a non-garrote target
night vale
yeah, idk though, like seems like he was just messing around to me... hardly trying to make an instructional video?
Imagine if i streamed for 8 hours a day i'd make some rotational mistakes
suppose, this is just the internet today though, be careful what you say
someone will clip it
rose violet
Well
Itās his choice to not make a big deal out of it
Be a humble streamer like seli
alpine rain
Is MA just a preference / gameplay choice at this point? It sims like 100dps better for me also dont see much people using in on logs
marble hemlock
ā¤
depends mostly on the boss, if you get to pure-st then MA can be better, most fights give you some opportunity to benefit off of the subterfuge bonus on multiple targets however
versed palm
Just finally snagged boon last night on a 10 Shrine - havent used it yet - herodmg says it sims better with subterfuge (which I use and guide says to always use on cd (I dont use exsang)...how does it fit best in opening rotation?
also good morning all
marble hemlock
use it with TB
strange python
!galecaller
marble hemlock
assuming youre running NP traits, you wanna have the haste up for the entirety of the TB
marble hemlock
to get more autoattacks during its duration aswell as have more NP trait ticks
versed palm
many thanks!
strange python
So... Gale>Vandetta>TB?
marble hemlock
galecaller isnt on the gcd, so just pop it with vendetta
and then on cd every minute (which then overlaps with vendetta every second Galecaller usage)
might wanna delay the third galecaller use similar to how we do it with exsanguinate to line it up with vanish+vendetta
versed palm
:+1:
strange python
š thanks
arctic harness
rose violet
rose violet
Heās not forsen
golden relic
kek
memes are to strong
outlaw aoe rotation aint that hard so atleast that vid wont be a meme
spice surge
On aoe there are a lot of things to keep track of
I would say sin is hard to play in m+
rose violet
All rogue specs are pretty much brain dead rn
golden relic
i mean its not, thats the joke
spice surge
Hard to play perfectly
golden relic
that pressing blade flurry cant be harder
to explain
but who knows, might be re rolling for crit buff while bladeflurry is up, Y I K E S
primal gazelle
tfw you look at wcl logs for top dungeons and its all outlaw rogues š¦
vestal wren
outlaw's burst aoe is busted atm
primal gazelle
jk its just undaddy 5 times each dungeon
rose violet
Assa ST,2-3T and aoe is busted
rose violet
Itās enough for most dungeons
vestal wren
well stuff survives long enough
also assassination (unlike subtlety) can apply their dots with less thinking
solid nova
@arctic harness Spec channels arent the place for posts like that
spice surge
You do have to think a bit though
Trying to snipe low-hp targets with rupture for max energy
vestal wren
you can essentially apply your dots to everything that does not die within the next 3 secs
spice surge
or things that will die within 3 secs
vestal wren
and 3 secs is not long
warm sable
I join 23k club LoL
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6Mb9mpQBE5yxBL1G6fXK8F
vestal wren
nice š
golden relic
legit
ask a normal question
deletes my msg
???????????????
@rose violet i got banned aswell
feelsbadman
warm sable
Gorak Tul's Mantle Shoulders without TC sim higher than one from raid with TC ... didn't know this one are soo OP
golden relic
gorak tul is BIS
primal gazelle
it has overwhelming power trait on it, which is raelly strong
spice surge
I'd wager you'd sim higher with NP on your helm and blightborne on your shoulder @warm sable
warm sable
Ye but still i thought stacking TC is more important ... guess not š
vestal wren
only for subtlety
it is the spec that only has 3 1/2 strong traits that dont stack well
so you essentially need to run with 2 TC traits
outlaw is iirc now even closer to TC then sin (in value of azerite powers)
rose violet
@golden relic gonna try as well once Iām home
warm sable
@spice surge nope its close but still --0.2 dps š
simple meteor
@gusty plinth whats your stat weights ?
strange python
the dagger is carrying that sim
vestal wren
425 O.O nice gz
simple meteor
yeah huge
gusty plinth
for me ma simming higher but cba using it
simple meteor
yeah same
gusty plinth
fiery cradle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hfW4EvNzLKu69UTH4fg342 24k club atleast 
bleak spoke
If your azerite is scuffed clap ur hands https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/brshkSDBAYMhaUDVw8RCSg
quartz relic
right now I am the main rougue assassination but which one is better now of the 3 classes?
bleak spoke
Play what you like
bleak spoke
Yee
tacit wing
exsang or tb in m+?
bleak spoke
Depends
This week Iām playing TB for the envenom funnel
In dungeons with uneven hp
Places like fh exsang for sure
quartz relic
my question was not which rogue I like more
bleak spoke
They all have their strengths and weaknesses
You asked a really nonspecific question
For raid, for m+, what do your comp needs what traits and stats do you have
grave ruin
Unless you push very high keys or are a mythic raider I dont think the specc really matters too much, just that you are comfortable to preform on the specc you play
quartz relic
Ok, reformulate. Based on the new raid which specialization is rougue is it performing better in dps?
bleak spoke
Assa or outlaw unless youāre incredible at subtlety
Assa plays well on most fights, outlaw plays very well on some of them
rose violet
Does it really matter if you have to ask this question
bleak spoke
Was trying to find nice ways to say that
quartz relic
If it matters. I like to know how the other specializations are going but if it's a problem for you, I'm very sorry.
bleak spoke
Check warcraftlogs for that
quartz relic
Thanks for your opinions guys š
rose violet
Just trying to tell people that itās better to be good at playing a bad spec than the other way around
ashen ermine
So the nothing personal dmg stacks just not the energy correct?
rose violet
Yep
ashen ermine
Word, thanks
ashen ermine
Just trying to figure out if I should drop one of my NP traits to pick up SS
bleak spoke
Flat stat boost numbers also stack
Second np is pretty low value but if youāre playing MA Iād sim it very carefully
ashen ermine
Running 2 DD and 2 NP atm
bleak spoke
Adding any SS usually locks you into subterfuge
ashen ermine
Which I don't mind. Just trying to squeek out as much dmg as I can
wary stratus
Hey guys im kinda new to rogue but for traits are you still supposed to stack shrouded or is that not a thing anymore?
ashen ermine
<--- will tell you all homie
wary stratus
o ok
brisk frost
emerald or opal for max dmg on opu?
haughty lily
opal
brisk frost
roger
warm geode
ruby, if no ruby boss dont die
sturdy python
Only one or two people need ruby
Opal otherwise unless you kill the boss super fast then emerald
bleak spoke
Super fast meaning you donāt get a second set of adds or super fast meaning you only get one vendetta
Cuz Iām considering emerald pretty heavily right now
sturdy python
Second set of adds
cunning urchin
What ilvl does m10 drop?
smoky fiber
400
cunning urchin
Gotcha thanks
sturdy python
Why5 rubies
bleak spoke
Well thatās probably part of the reason there were three sets of adds
warm geode
@sturdy python cuz when we seted 4, was dropping, 2rogues 1 shaman 1 druid, and, idk why was dropeing, i was using skills all the time, maybe others didnt
when we change to one spriest spamming skills and me, didnt drop
sturdy python
The effect can only occur once a second
warm geode
i can link the kill for u if want
starting of the p2 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/379153090?t=00h06m28s
sturdy python
Any more than two rubies is overkill unless there's a reason that changes in mythic. Which is what I'm wondering
visual quartz
when I have to go ruby I can keep debuff up the entire fight
peak smelt
it does change. if both people with melee get the debuff to run out stacks will drop.
sturdy python
That's not true because you can use a ranged ability. Happens in heroic too
regal tundra
@sturdy python debuff lasts 2.5sec only, if you only have 2 rubys you can get RNG'd and stacks will drop, not even mentioning P1 swaps
sturdy python
So It lasts less in mythic?
regal tundra
yup
sturdy python
Cool, makes sense
plain thistle
for mythic the minimum number of ruby I would say is 4, rogue and DH are usually the candidates for that job, if you want to be safe, you can run with 5 or 6. ruby not dropping is the most important part of that fight.
warm geode
yep
vestal wren
i would say, just use a bm hunter
smoky fiber
5-6 sounds really excessive we're running 3 reds
plain thistle
yeah, our guild used hunter to get the 100% buff, but i guess they work perfectly for ruby as well
5-6 is execessive yes, but safe š
vestal wren
only hard part of the fight is phase 1
round harbor
Any class with high apm or doesn't need to switch to adds is a prime Ruby player
languid ore
I see a lot of top rogues using like 2-3 DD with 1-2 SS. Maybe I should use SS...
sturdy python
Probably just the best they have
lethal heart
as people use whatever they have
civic forge
i thought DD stacking was what was best
warm geode
@languid ore what simms higher
civic forge
i'd go for 3dd/1ss/1np/tc prob
languid ore
I just wanna be the best.
lethal heart
š¤·
languid ore
Alexa, queue 'youre the best' by Joe esposito
eager kernel
not even tina turner
languid ore
The Sim is telling me that MA is best and not use SS. But the fights are looking better for SS..
round harbor
Bis imo is 3dd 1np 2tc. But that's not obtainable for everyone
round harbor
Ss is great for add padding
lethal heart
but fight like mekka/blockades
civic forge
ss is too good not to use imo
languid ore
Adds gotta die too though fam
primal gazelle
jadefire š
lethal heart
no idea how cds line up tho
round harbor
Ss is pad imo
primal gazelle
minor on grong
lethal heart
well
languid ore
Blockade?
lethal heart
because you get adds at like 20 seconds then 2:20 then 4:20 i guess
which always lines up with your vanish
inner pecan
there's no ss value on blockade either
round harbor
Rastakhan is 99 percent single target lol
lethal heart
not really
you're probably gonna be outside as rogue
so you get some decent cleave value
but its w/e irrelevant boss
inner pecan
it's like 80% ST and 20% 3target
waxen blaze
When should I pool ennergy? To chain Envenom or EP?
hollow stone
Yea. Id say jade is the closest to a cleave fight. But even then, during prog on jade, running full st to burn the monk just seemed better
strange python
so with master assassin after vanish shold i open TB even if i don't have any cp's or do a mutilate first then vanish TB so i can get a quick envenom?
hollow stone
Opener w ma will be g m r m vend tb (this will put you at 3-5 cp), van, if at 4cp+ env, m, env
If you get really unlucky with the mut before vend and are at 2cp, idk if its worth doing another mut before vend tb or not. Ill leave that for somebody else
steep obsidian
https://www.twitch.tv/musclebrahtv/clip/EnchantingLuckyBeefAMPEnergyCherry?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time wtf am I missing something? Didnāt he whiff his opener?
Wtf would you xsang the mob you didnāt garrotte
civic forge
40k pog
rose violet
rank 1 season 1 and 3 btw
simple meteor
fok fok
vestal wren
the clip is entertaining
warm sable
What would you guys prefer like cap for Haste right now when we dont have Array stacks ??? 20% or even more ... (I know there is no real cap)
elfin plaza
ideal setup for Oppulence when I dont have to ruby? on mythic oppulence and RL already making our BMs take ruby
bleak spoke
need to sub to lepan to get the garrote emote for the best variation of that meme ;-;
elfin plaza
like MA and full single starget traits right?
elfin plaza
over one SS prob?
midnight ibex
You get banned quicker for writing Garrote 1 than you would writing the N word
lethal heart
you get banned even quicker
bleak spoke
rip xd
midnight ibex
thats because he doesnt do anything wrong
lethal heart
ofc
hollow stone
@warm sable youre right. Theres no cap. I like to hover around 20% for raid and much lower for m+. Trust your sims though, that will be the most accurate
vestal wren
the clip is old, numbers where high for old standards.
also its a meme, i think topic should be changed.
midnight ibex
Gareth?
hollow stone
@elfin plaza yea. Full st with opal for prog. Your group will need your st boss pumping. Think of opu as sin zul; fok for cps and dump em into the boss. When you have topaz buff, its beautiful: fok env fok env fok env (ideally in a tb window)
bleak spoke
sub rogue cosplay š
hollow stone
Im trying fuu :p
elfin plaza
Wish I could just go SUB tbh
hollow stone
Honestly, on opu, its probably pretty good lol
Good st for robot phase, good funnelling for boss phase
Extra step for moving gold out
bleak spoke
honestly seems like it'd be more dmg to just mutilate when crit buff is up tho
hollow stone
You might be right. Esp w dd
bleak spoke
the DD proc chance + 4 cp guarantee has got to be better than an extra cp
unless you have some jank 3 TTK setup sounds dead in the water to me
if you're just pushing boss dmg and don't need to help with adds at all
hollow stone
But then youre getting 4cp envs. So it depends on that difference, basically. And youre prob right that dd procs from mut and 4cp envs prob more dmg than fok and 5cp envs
bleak spoke
3DD with 1 415 2 400 DD pieces makes DD 10% of my overall without any crazy crit modifier (on mekkatorque)
hollow stone
Yeah, boss dmg. If youre group needs help on adds too then fok env is PROBABLY better
Yea. 10% sounds right
bleak spoke
if anything i'd fok for opal then fok for crippling poison if our mage plays arcane and not frost i guess
can't imagine why he would tho
hollow stone
Ew. Arcane mage
bleak spoke
idk 2 arcane powers in the burn on opulence sounds pretty decent to me
hollow stone
Even then, cripp is what? 10 sec? 12? Your strat would still work out nicely
I know. I just reluctantly mained mage last tier and needed to play arcane more than anyone should ever have to
bleak spoke
unless he has some cheese prepped with the combustion cdr and plays fire haha
hollow stone
Frost just so good atm w triple ff traits. And then you can "cheese" more orbs w blizz and destroy adds. Depends what your group needs, of course
primal gazelle
is frost w/ triple ff stronger than sin rogues with triple eb in m+?
havent seen one yet
primal gazelle
what is their bis aoe trait
hollow stone
Open for debate, but probably tc. And then youd want 1 of the "ice lance decrease fr orb cd" traits
primal gazelle
ic
bleak spoke
they play thermal void freezing rain and a whiteout i think
primal gazelle
i always hear mages talk about that ff trait so i just assumed it was for aoe
hollow stone
The flurry one is decent too. But their aoe kit is so good that most just go ff for the st
bleak spoke
but all the other traits are to ST
bleak spoke
like, the zul pad build is somewhat viable in dungeons
hollow stone
Yea. Its basically that + tc
bleak spoke
every mage i know says it's literally the most boring thing tho
hollow stone
Ff is fun, im getting like 180-200k crits at 385 approx ilvl lol
But the spec is pretty fricken basic. Esp if you run splitting ice
bleak spoke
i'd say i've been competitive with every frost mage i've run into on aoe with 3EB tho
hollow stone
Yea. Theres a reason i kinda went "meh" on the mage this tier
And boomies are just better
bleak spoke
only time I feel i really can't compete is 3EP demo lock I guess
but usually when you have a demo lock you're doing a lot of stuff to make the dungeon run viable
and not really worrying about dps
bleak spoke
yeh, given the reason why the trait that's being stacked is good is because of a still unfixed bug
where when you press implosion if your imps haven't spawned from the hand of guldan it'll do implosion but not fire the imps
previously that was aids cuz tht means you wasted a global
but now it just gives you the EP buff for free lol
hollow stone
Working as intended
bleak spoke
rr'd to rogue from lock, still maintain the character xd
vestal wren
i think assassination is good if you played affliction before that
bleak spoke
yeah when i first played assa, i kinda sat there and stared at CT for the longest time and started screaming to everyone who cared or didn't about how i literally had AOE unstable affliction :^)
bleak spoke
if they're not in range it will
can't tricks to pets or familiars of any sort
can't tricks when target is mounted
hollow stone
Cant trix if they have neuralizer
karmic ingot
You also canāt tricks if you have neural silencer.
vestal wren
if you or the target have neuralizer or if the target is mounted
i rly hate it if tanks even after telling them pull from mount
hollow stone
Yea. Thats probably my biggest pet peeve in wow
bleak spoke
when you come out into the open area in tol
and you're like
dismount
dismount
DISMOUNT
and then after you say itlike 8 times they're ilke why
hollow stone
Dismount so i can trix cannon, you fricken frick boi
bleak spoke
šÆ
wide hedge
nah tank is not mounted
hollow stone
And then i get real mad and tell them its clear why they tank
wide hedge
and i cant give him tot
bleak spoke
neural silencer for sure then
wide hedge
i cant give anyone tot
bleak spoke
uh
hollow stone
You neural silenced?
bleak spoke
try if from spellbook?
strange python
what are bis traits for m+?
hollow stone
Do you has? Its a buff
bleak spoke
on your buff bar do you see soemthing you don't recognize
hollow stone
From an item from blingtron
wide hedge
ty š
tough skiff
best opener for 3x DD and toxic blades?
tough skiff
cant read those small text icons
primal gazelle
do you guys usually tricks on opener?
i try to wait until after my 1st 3 garrotes go out before i tricks
strange python
is your tank shit? sure
if not - no point
unless you're talking about aoe
then probably just hold until you're spamming fan
primal gazelle
ya your 1st 3 globals generate almost 0 threat
bleak spoke
hmm that might be worth pursuing
exotic widget
Do you think its worth dropping 342 sim dps with MA for subterfuge and ss
rose loom
What's decent uptime on EP?
weary arrow
would you take dagger in the back over twist if the sims are near identical in terms of DPS..or take twist so that positioning is less of a problem
scarlet sequoia
how exactly is twist gonna help with positioning
you're gonna be behind the boss anyways, right? dont really wanna get parried and shit
weary arrow
I mean ideally yes, but during movement etc sometimes I find myself on the side to avoid mechanics etc
old sigil
On opulence mythic can you soak the coin shower with evasion or only with cheat death?
serene basin
i too am curious about this ^
I've wanted to experiment solo soaking w/ just cheat death but I havent got the chance
dark crag
Neither
rustic ether
@serene basin cheat death wont proc if the damage is too big
dark crag
Too much, cheat death has a max absorb of x times your hp
rustic ether
you MIGHT be able to feint it with other rogues though
but that would just be too much work for no damn reason
dark crag
Dying
serene basin
TRUE
dark crag
Thats how its done
proper dagger
Hi.. Just got Kimbul's claw trinket dropped, but I have 365 galecaller and a 370 construct overcharger
any advice on which to use?
cuz on herodamge the overcharger is like same
as the claw
dark crag
sturdy python
It's the best answer. Only other consideration is which works better in aoe and GCB has the movement restriction
dark crag
With the given information you got the best answer
With more details you get better responses
primal gazelle
pls no, then hes gonna start describing you his stat weights and azerites
hollow stone
Yea. Evasion doesnt work on coins. Cheat is not enough (found that one out first hand, had to try)
Cant cloak
Its either, get bop, get stacked, or die
rustic ether
did you feint?
hollow stone
Yea
rustic ether
what difficulty?
rustic ether
mk
hushed maple
whats the easiest and hardest dungeon this week?
hushed maple
and easiest?
hollow stone
I personally dont do tol on tyr weeks either. But thats more of a personal issue than dungeon problem :p
Freehold and atal easiest fo sho
civic forge
atal is probably the easiest
on ty
but probably not by much. every other dungeon besides shrine/tos/kr/tol are pretty equal in diff on ty
actually witches on waycrest are kinda scary, the rest of the dungeon is easy tho
rustic ether
tol is only seriously difficult because final boss is really RNG based
civic forge
yeah
primal gazelle
i hate 2nd boss shrine more than any other boss in all bfa dungeons
sturdy python
For assassination, definitely
primal gazelle
i clench my ass everytime i fight it
spice ice
I dont like ToS
1st boss and 3rd boss are the bane of bad players
Especially on Tyran
sharp token
is it good to take Hidden Blades when playing with 1x Echoing Blades?
soft cargo
with 3x dd is it more important to pool for tb and put in 3 envenoms or to keep up envenom buff?
hallow coyote
Explosive ToS is worse ToS
hollow stone
@round harbor yea. I feel you on that w reaping n cannons. I just have a personal vendetta against all the bosses in that trash instance
Even the first boss makes me mad and its basically a tank n spank lol
primal gazelle
@sharp token do not take HB with 1 EB
sharp token
thanks
austere spade
whats with nothing personal getting bumped up on sims out of the blue
lone junco
@proper dagger the only advice anyone will give you is that you should sim. But. i would look at Patchwerk. and dungeon slice. if it doesnt come close in either test its probably a shard.
some stuff scales like dog shit in cleave.
austere spade
on raven its higher than DD
inner pecan
@austere spade it was underperforming in sims
it's now reflective of actual value in-game
austere spade
i mean a single stack sure cuz of the energy. but its saying 3 stacks of it beats 3 stacks of DD? dayum