nice lust trinket
#assassination
echo cargo
lone junco
@rigid mango start with selling plasma or sperm or something that will grow back quickly. I would sell my fingernail clippings or 1 eyebrow maybe.
rigid mango
I'll just go to sketchy street corner I guess
analog heart
I got a quick question
In a raid scenario, is it better to have DDx3 or DDx2 and SSx1
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
lost idol
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lost idol
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
brisk drum
99% dumb question, but the wording on echoing blades confuses me a little, does it mean the first 5 critical strikes per combat ? and you have to drop combat to reset it?
little osprey
@lost idol Released these last night if still looking https://wago.io/3PSNjk7Tl
@brisk drum EB procs for the first 5 critical hits of any single fan of knives
elder gulch
so lets say there is 8 enemies, and u FoK, and u crit on all 8 of them, it will only proc EB on 5 of them
i think that's what it means
little osprey
^^^
indigo mulch
Still do like 150k+ dps on reaping tho.
feelsgoodman
Is it worth going crimson tempest tho?
I mean hidden blades is nice but it still feels like your missing out on cps when you fok spam with tripple EB
civic palm
Because it can't.
visual quartz
to piss us off
chrome mural
Its already got the restriction of having to grouped with the person, so idk why it's unable to be cast on a mounted unit
Expecially with bosses like mekka and champions
visual quartz
if a tank rolls into a fight on mount, I just dont bother
chrome mural
Its actually really inconvenient
Well yeah I dont either but I'd rather the restriction just get removed
Apparently its the same for hunters
I made a post on the forums, hopefully someone sees it
acoustic sleet
does shadowmeld activate subterfurge?
rose perch
they don't want you to be able to dps stuff while the tank runs around on the mount pulling everything in a dungeon i think
steep obsidian
its dumb it doesn't work with paladin cavalier too
acoustic sleet
havent tried that before lol
chrome mural
Neither but thats pretty fucking dumb if you cant
civic palm
I assume there are some other weird things that make it weird that they are considered mounted.
stable pine
Once you get a few ruptures down do you just spam FOK without using finisher during Reaping?
sturdy python
They fixed that in bfa, can tricks a pally when they use it. Didn't work before though
thorn crypt
I am also curious on that @stable pine whether u just FoK or envenom after some ruptures are up
humble crane
Anyone know how much dps as a % roughly, battlescarred augments give? Trying to figure something out for Jaina prog
quick ice
@humble crane I gain ~150 dps at 22k sim. Can't speak for other classes
So not quite 1%
humble crane
Yeah I just simmed, I think its 0.54% for me
royal lantern
Worth it when you have spare gold imo,not something you NEED too have
royal lantern
Well,ofc,but its quite expensive too rune up every pull
humble crane
Yeah we are buying them for prog on jaina
velvet kernel
Rune on p3 etc
humble crane
Im trying to figure out the increase for the entire raid
velvet kernel
Like no point for the rune in the boat with jaina
steep obsidian
vantus runes arent expensive at all if thats what you mean
its cheaper then a flask
use those first 😛
humble crane
Na I dont care about the cost
I care about the raid wide % increase to meet the dps requirement
steep obsidian
well augment runes are about the same price as a pot on my server
but pots are expensive as hell
400 is the cheapest per
clear blaze
400? lucky you. 700 is undercutting 850 on my server 😄
steep obsidian
lol 400 to 500 is bad enough
crude bay
No need to augment rune before you get past wall
I guess you can once you start consistantly getting past intermission, but then youll see wall pretty quickly anyways
clear blaze
well as said, no need to use the rune pre pull. use it once u meet the dps req, like last phase ghuun
thin patio
Isn't it weird for my 415 chest with NP & Unstable Catalyst to sim the same as mekkatorque chest (NP DD) ?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gHa1d6MXNttFwmzTSx6h3w
royal lantern
catalyst sims high because you dont move in sims
vestal wren
anyone simmed NP after the fix?
royal lantern
it is a good trait if you actually dont have much movment, but thats.......not in many raidfights
rigid mango
what was the fix?
vestal wren
#tc-research its hasted now (not sure when that changed, but its now correct in raidbots nightly)
rigid mango
So is it actually decent to stack several of now?
bronze topaz
for me it is replacing one dd/tc now if ma is talented.
rigid mango
It's simmed up there equal to one of the above
but only the first NP does, the rest are behind
night vale
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gPWbvKFM3qYW52U4pzF4ts
Says drop SS and go Master Assassin?
Probably still worth SS on any fight other than patchwerk right?
quick ice
actually, it turns out the 2nd NP just barely pulls ahead if I use weekly
I'll probably keep the TTK just because I plan on replacing the hat and don't want to increase my forge cost right now
bronze topaz
I would lose 100dps if I would use NP 2 times. So 2 NP should be better for fights with downtime like Mekkatorque?!
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9pLijtLFDNMhWsuvod8Mdf
vestal wren
weekly does not include the change (yet)
unless weekly was build today
what it was apperently
quick ice
my goal was that weekly did not include the change when I was testing. oops.
to compare hasted vs non-hasted NP
vestal wren
you could just use the old version local
quick ice
well, yes
strange python
So many blood elf rogues lol
strange python
Belf is; I want to look human but slightly unique
royal lantern
except that human in wow is more uniqe then the generic elf lol
but thats offtopic
thorn tartan
What shall I masturbate to? If i got no belf
tacit wing
Getting bored of my belf tbh, undead master race
royal lantern
thorn tartan
You got a point there 😄
strange python
My first character is a belf rogue, but I spend more time on my undead DK now
honest onyx
Feral or sin :-P
strange python
Feral isn’t as good as it was back then, but feral for sure if you PvP
Sin is better than feral at PvP
And sin is better in PvE too
strange python
In legion feral and sin were pretty much neck to neck in PvP OPness, feral has just dropped off now and you might aswell switch to balance or resto to stay relevant
ember saffron
guys do you have any weakaura for pandemic timer for garrote?
hollow vine
just add a condition to whatever weak aura you have
mine turns red under the pandemic timer
worldly furnace
I just grabbed the Luxthos WA pack, has it in it too
hollow vine
5.5 sec for garrote and 7 for 5cp rupture
worldly furnace
How do you guys go about managing the adds on conclave as sin, do you try get both bleeds up on as many as you can?
royal lantern
if it doesnt interupt a cd window i atleast hold rupture up
worldly furnace
Okay thanks. Yeah I don't let anything ruin cd window, but outside of that I have been trying to get atleast a 3cp rupture on each and garotte, but it's just feels "clustered" and not fluid. Will give it a go with just rupture
thorn ore
For rupture it's (4+(4*ComboPoints))*0.3
worldly furnace
I don't follow?
strange python
What does that mean?
royal lantern
the timers are all in the pins
thorn ore
The pandemic
worldly furnace
ohhh
strange python
Ah
little osprey
wow
I've been playing 3s pandemic for all classes for a long, long time.
I just assumed it was like... 3s / 1.0 + (haste * 100)
thorn ore
It's 30% of the duration you can apply
little osprey
hold me
obsidian ridge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
What’s this?
small island
are u guys playing with MA? i just feel like MA is bad on so many bosses
vestal wren
i blame ma design for that
royal lantern
i still dont know why its not just 100%
hollow stone
Just get 50% base crit 🤔
lost idol
anyone know of a good sin youtuber pov? Who does sick dmg
spice surge
Dratnos does educational videos, but idk if you're just looking for a fat blaster
hollow stone
Dratnos is great because he's active in this disc as well. Very handy to have him do that
indigo mulch
Should i run Master poisoner when running m+ with 3x eb and 2x ss?
swift sparrow
Envenom get boosted from mastery right ?
lament dove
well it gives 30% dmg to poisons only, so only if your poison dmg is 3x bigger than all of your dmg combined
lament dove
I mean during aoe it's a lot easier to keep up elaborate planning, you got the buff up all the time
honest mica
If MA were 100% we would all be running it with ST traits. I end up swapping between both MA and subt depending on traits and damage is noticeably burstier with ma
lament dove
well MA works in 3 seconds, while subt during 20+ seconds
spice surge
Idk we all should just be running MA anyway
honest mica
When you have to reopen on a boss or add more then a few times subt becomes more powerful
lament dove
I mean ofc it's bursty if it works in such a short window
yeah, subt feels more versatile, esp. if there are adds
strange python
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
rose sapphire
harsh raven
Thank you for the tip about Dratnos, @spice surge! Excellent guides.
smoky fiber
sims dont say a whole lote about spec viability in a patchwerk situation
solid nova
lament dove
but the world of warcraft is no perfect world...
strange python
might be a dumb q but which of the specs scales best?
spice surge
Assa
strange python
ty
indigo mulch
Good luck having 100% uptime on any boss in the new raid tho 😐
vestal wren
every statistic is only as good as the user that understands the meaning. Thats tl;dr: of patchwork sims
smoky fiber
415 dagger from chest yay
plain thistle
not 425 but ok 😂
buoyant flicker
M+ chest is cucked now
They should make it mythic ilvl again
And make u do a 15 instead or something
smoky fiber
finally simming 24k pog https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pYFF7jz3CxMe8kmroG7DCk
now just need 415 helm today
vestal wren
!affix
prisma monolithBOT
Affixes: Tyrannical - Bolstering - Grievous - Reaping
vestal wren
sounds like a okay week
plain thistle
🤢
strange python
Will be interesting to see how Reaping and Grievous will be. Mostly the combo of Grave Bolt + Grevious sounds bad. Rest should be really nice week I think
ruby idol
Leech sets are the new meta
Was actually so good in cannons with explosive last week in TD
Ignore explosive and leech with cannon dmg. Power through!
strange python
So leeching poison is the new meme talent? Or could it actually work... :P
stable oxide
I see people simming with Master Assassin, but isn't Subt still better on actual bossfights?
austere scarab
vestal wren
ma is good on st, subter is good on st and mt
on pure st ma > subter unless you run with ss azerite
hollow stone
@plain thistle i got samesies. Twins!
rose perch
yeah MA is sometimes slightly better on puuuure single target, but Subterfuge is quite a bit better with a second or third target, in addition to being mandatory if you have any SS traits
vestal wren
yes that means its situational
spice surge
Did you push the non-garrote during MA fuu?
raven mica
https://gyazo.com/f846e13a0746ed56bbaa185cb4d09801
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
vestal wren
was not a win iirc on default profile
raw tusk
I got a 420 Harlan’s dice today
spice surge
@rose perch Im simming close to 1% lower with MA, but thats obv without SS traits
stable oxide
But only Mekkatorque is pure single target right?
rose perch
interesting @spice surge i wonder what the factors are at play here
stable oxide
So only on Mekkatorque MA would potentially sim higher
hollow stone
No. Mekka is not the only st boss
stable oxide
Which boss is also single target?
spice surge
Opulence is basicly only ST as well, conclave too, the adds on rasta are basicly irrelevant, mekka is st, blockade is basicly only ST for melee
and jaina on mythic
hollow junco
most of the bosses listed give opportunities for padding with garrotes
stable oxide
Don't you vanish and garrote the boss then shadowstep to the add to garrote that aswell?
on Blockade
vestal wren
only jadefire is not pure st
spice surge
@rose perch Mostly twist and DD's i'd wager
stable oxide
Its not padding when it actually needs to die
vestal wren
ye ss is better for padding i guess
stable oxide
So on conclave.... you pad
cobalt pelican
it's not really pad if the ad needs to die.. any dps you lose on the boss will be made up by other people not having to kill the ad
hollow junco
to be fair though, a lot of the multiple garrote opportunities are not just padding, they are near inconsequential padding
rose perch
are you actually vanishing on raptors on conclave?
hollow junco
this can be argued
rose perch
that seems pretty difficult to facilitate
proud spruce
pretty sure on conclave theyre talking about the extra boss being out not the raptors
hollow stone
If you think 1 garrote is going to "kill the add" on blockade you are delusional
real bay
you can't pad on conclave
rose perch
damage to the other boss doesn't show up in warcraftlogs
real bay
not on wcl
golden relic
ppl trying to look good on details ingame u kno
stable oxide
hmmm
real bay
makes them look stupid 
stable oxide
Yeah okay
cobalt pelican
it's not 'kill the ad'
damage is damage
either it's worth it for you or it's not
it's nothing to do with padding
(whether it is or not, well, i don't know)
vestal wren
tbh i dont think a lot of ppl will play ma overall
spice surge
But if the add dies 1 or 2 seconds before it reaches the boss it doesnt matter
vestal wren
it just gives worse feedback and ss is overpowerd still so no reason to drop it
cobalt pelican
it's not a matter of when it dies, the ad doesn't have variable health
any damage you do to it is damage that's come from somewhere in the raid
vestal wren
so, its a nice alternative
golden relic
point is
stable oxide
Some classes lose dps by target switching
proud spruce
? melee loses dps when they switch to the ranged add perioed
stable oxide
Perhaps let them stay on the boss
golden relic
you cant say "ye im saving other dpsers dps to dps"
when you are the boss destroyer and not them
then ye, your "padding" is useless
cause u want to look good
stable oxide
I disagree
If other people lose dps by target switching, why would you let them target switch so that you can stay on the boss?
golden relic
take conclave for example, the raptors run around , and u dispel them anyway, u running around rupturing all of them, how is that a dps gain instead of pushing the boss so u dont get abilitys overlapped with the paku
cobalt pelican
i'm confused..
proud spruce
gotta run around kidneying those raptors bruh
golden relic
i get what you are trying to say
wide bolt
They need to die asap and you sitting on the boss is lowering the raid dps
golden relic
but u have diff classes for diff reasons
wide bolt
You wouldn't bother rupturing them anyway just envenom
proud spruce
Thats his point though, do you want your assassination rogue running around chasing raptors doing suboptimal dps or do you want him to sit on the boss? something to tallk with your whole raid about not this chat
but it is something to think about
spice surge
If you want to blast the raptors, spec outlaw
stable oxide
Indeed, you have different classes for different reasons. And if you want to efficiently use those classes, you are not gonna let those classes that lose alot of dps by target switching, target switch. Instead, you let the classes that gain dps by target switching target switch
golden relic
like idk how you can even argue against the statement, why do you even make calls like "ranged swap to this" and not tell every dps to swap
cause its a loss
all non wheelchairs swap
or what
stable oxide
In general, you need to look at what will increase your raid dps
golden relic
exactly
its like choosing to play outlaw or sin on a boss like opulence
whats your raid comp like
do u have to be the add blasters or can u just be the ST blaster
thin patio
Or do you have to be ruby 😦
stable oxide
:'(
buoyant flicker
sin is so good on opulence first phase
stable oxide
They put me on the ruby gem :'(
buoyant flicker
i pray to be swapped
thin patio
omegalol
buoyant flicker
ye there is some timings u have to wait for
stable oxide
Why do I not have the Assassination rank anymore 🤔
stable oxide
I was Sub the first 2 weeks of Uldir :(
buoyant flicker
same
buoyant flicker
until they nerfed blade in the shadows about 60 times
stable oxide
It was pretty strong yeah :P
Just like SS
which got nerfed right after I switch assassination xD
proud spruce
I started late this xpac and looking at these lvl 400/415 azurite trait levels is demotivating as fuck lmao. What a weird way to hide this expansions max level class choices
buoyant flicker
only thing still wrong with azerite is how you get it
otherwise its pretty nice i think
primal gazelle
fuck yessssssss
proud spruce
Well yea but how you get it is like, idk, the most important part lol
primal gazelle
415 SS/EB shoulders 😄
proud spruce
grats
primal gazelle
took 2 tries
primal gazelle
ya the gold ones
buoyant flicker
gold tasseled epaulets or wahtever
raven mica
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dbyMfYELDuk5Sao1FBRi7q
somebody tell me how I'm supposed to feel about this.
I look at my azerite chest
but then I look at my trinket
primal gazelle
thought you would sim higher with that 425 gcb
raven mica
its 38
raven mica
i have all the DPS traits unlocked and nek ilevel gives such a miniscule amount of stats
toxic minnow
3 ss, 1 eb, 1 sob and 1 np or 2 ss, 2 sob, 1 np, 1 ttk for m+ this week
what do you guys reckon
raven mica
actually agi's my worst simming stat
primal gazelle
is agi gem even good anymore?
raven mica
I probably should replace it.
primal gazelle
its the worst stat
spice surge
Generally the more stats you get the worse agility becomes
My weights have haste at 3.3 and agility is at 2.21
smoky fiber
Still overall new to assassination, so I've been using MA which obviously sims higher, but almost all of the logs show people using subt which I can understand with the amount of extra targets there are - My question is, should you run at least 1x SS while using subt, even though it sims as a 500-600~dps loss to DD? Or should I run the DD while still using subt?
stable oxide
I would say that you should always choose for DD
Or perhaps have 1 SS and 2 DD if you have no other choice
Personally I really like the opener with SS and subt
lament dove
subt only comes into play if you have at least 1 SS, don't use it otherwise
raven mica
Actually
sub sims like equal to MT
MA*
subt becomes mandatory if ur running at least 1x SS but if not you can still run subt
smoky fiber
Yeah it doesn't sim very far behind even without 1x SS, that's why I'm trying to figure out what the best option is. I have seen a few logs with no SS pieces running subt but not very many.
It's either 3x DD or 2x DD 1x SS
vestal wren
main stats usually get worse values then further the gear progresses, we are at a point where high itemlvl can make sec. stats > agi
raven mica
its probably because they like the sub playstyle better
Imagine blizz balancing gear so that "higher ilevel is always better"
and then one tier in we're back to secondaries being better
vestal wren
MA has terrible feedback esp. bc its not 100%
spice surge
http://piclair.com/data/m6iju.jpg
tfw people say MA and subt sims the same
smoky fiber
150 dps is not that much lol
raven mica
not even a 1% DPS loss
spice surge
You can make it consistent by just using tb>mut>envenom
I mean, if <1% is "the same" then we might aswell all be using nightstalker
Since that is also less than 1% worse
royal lantern
imagine simming over 22k
vestal wren
100% would be fine
royal lantern
oh god, poor bfa venomrush lol
spice surge
@gusty kestrel Venom rush is at place 155 in the herodamage combination tab 😄
lost sentinel
when I sim MA and subt it's often like a .01% difference 😛
primal gazelle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xh72ZJgnhc4awhkRKEacom the difference between haste and agi is massive lol
haste is weighted 40% ish higher than agi
raven mica
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bxqGo5oHdemF3kjbF286BJ
when i sim it (without any SS so my azerite does indeed look like a big ass yikes)
Subt is a .2% loss
My azerite's a big ass yikes regardless to be honest.
strange python
should i be using CT instead of TB in 10+ M+ ?
raven mica
CT and TB are on different rows?
strange python
sorry,i meant CT and PB
chilly marsh
hollow stone
Pb will likely be better than ct this week for the most part
lost sentinel
no love for hidden blades? heheh
raven mica
alright bois from tonight until thursday im not gonna run keys cuz reforging is expensive
should I deal with the cancer of ruinous bolt or just save my gold and run echoing blades for raid
lost sentinel
I got completely different azerite for raid and M+ now, it's quite convenient
dark crag
Me too, it's called outlaw
raven mica
unlike sin where running 3x SS and 3x EB and only being able to get those pieces from M+
well chest comes from conclave
spice surge
Assa with twist traits fill basicly the same role as sub does anyway
raven mica
Sub used to be so much fun in legion M+
spice surge
Slightly less prio damage but a lot more aoe
heady raven
worth spending residuum on a chest?
vestal wren
i did and got a decent one (last week)
lost sentinel
I got SS/rupt shoulder last week, happy with it
erm, EB/rupt
so... reaping + grievous, seems like AOE is gonna be pretty strong still this week
spice surge
I got the ss Eb chest first week and then on my second buy I got the bis one with dd+twist +op. So just do what I did and youll be fine ;-)
halcyon tulip
410 medallion from pvp cache today 🙂
spice surge
Sweet dude! :)
heady raven
noice
hmm I have heroic jadefire shoulders and heroic champs helm
its a 4% dps gain in the dungeon slice sim to move off the ST raid traits but idk on tyrannical week
primal gazelle
@round harbor im 1 helm away from bis combo 😄
round harbor
I'm one cloak away from kms
dark crag
I ran freehold this whole week, i already commited sudoku
dark crag
I was 👌 to greatness
raven mica
took me like 15 before I got a 400
dark crag
15 freeholds? That are rookie numbers
serene basin
holy moly
lost sentinel
I got like 5 or 6 dice, only 385 is the highest though, all like within the last month
raven mica
!flex
serene basin
/whisper sin boi rest of the tier "hey u need?"
lost sentinel
Was helping level in 4th normal
spice surge
Oof that's a big boon
lost sentinel
Fh*
serene basin
anyone know what the horde us emissary is today? is it honorbound
raven mica
honorbound 2k gold for NA horde
serene basin
tyty
hearty oriole
is there a list of BiS trinkets or anyting? or just an issue of simming them?
red plaza
@ 425 i wanna say galecallers and spyglass
but yeah its a matter of simming with your talents
weak isle
hey sorry in advance, never done exsang build when do u want to use it after opener? after every rup/garrote refresh?
heavy skiff
tiny arrow
Is there a bug or something on Grong logs on warcraftlogs? In Heroic
ebon current
I dunno, is is adding in the stupid amount of DPS awarded from throwing the orb?
cosmic pier
tiny arrow
ohh, my bad
but still, it shouldn't do that much dmg tho?
Does it scale alot with haste or?
spice surge
Yes there is/was a bug on grong, It was something with the achivement that made him take A LOT more damage
bold hearth
yep achievement was making him take 20% more damage per stack of monkeys rather than do 20% more damage
rustic ether
how the HELL is self reliance a trait when its literally just worse than "lying in wait"
so stupid that im forced with this garbage traits
ebon current
Do people actually stress out over inner ring traits?
vestal wren
i saw casual guilds expecting 40-42 neck lvl last weak
tough whale
Lmao what
ebon current
40-42 unlocks the +5 iL trait on 385s though
tough whale
Not saying that's unreasonable at all
vestal wren
just saying that even guilds that didnt have jaina down partly have absurd requirements
ebon current
or the Jaina groups in LFR "Link mythic AOTC or no invite" lolk
bold hearth
Defensive traits are pretty useful on Jaina prog which is why people are saying 40-42
tough whale
Not wrong, resounding v strong
bold hearth
our expectations were 35 heroic week and 38 mythic week so being 40-42 by now isn't that crazy
vestal wren
you cant even say 100% that defensive traits are usefull
there are many more or less useless ones
tough whale
We were 38 by heroic week launch -> no req just do wqs
hollow stone
Imo, defensives and ilvl are just bonus
ebon current
If youre relying on defensive traits for progession, you got a bigger issue than azerite level
tough whale
Eh certain defensives make jaina a bit easier
raven mica
I'm a rogue, I dont die to shit anyways
vestal wren
i mean, i can see why ppl want high itemlvl/neck lvl in heroic to kill bosses
ebon current
"We wiped. Based on my math, it was because I didn't have Longstrider unlocked. The 6% would've been enough to escape"
vestal wren
but i dont think its a good strategie to go over content
tough whale
picking longstrider
hollow stone
Ilvl makes it easier too. But i agree that a defensive or 5ilvl on your az wont make the diff between a kill and a wipe
bold hearth
I'm not saying 1 defensive trait will make a difference but 20 defensive traits across the whole raid will
tough whale
Resounding protection yejoice
vestal wren
so having/not having them is 0 diffrence
bold hearth
especially when you're running a burn strategy where there is a high amount of damage going out
vestal wren
foodpad probably beeing the best/most usefull on my azerite
spice surge
Close to no dazar pieces have good defensive traits
ebon current
Dazar gear in general is shit
tough whale
Uhh
ebon current
except Greed's Folly
vestal wren
gemhide/shrouded mantle -> both useless
tough whale
3x double dose >:)
rustic ether
@ebon current yes i stress about defensive traits because theyre actually useful for m+ pushing as well as mythic? 🤔
tough whale
Plus the +5 ilevel buffs trait damage
vestal wren
ye +5 itemlvl makes sense
raven mica
almost all M+ damage is avoidable or feintable for DPS
vestal wren
but defensives well
rustic ether
lmfao?
tough whale
Why feint when you can rely on ur neck and get out more damage
bold hearth
i mean you're probably not getting +5 ilvl traits by jaina prog
tough whale
Nah shes kill able without even the defensive ring
ebon current
I find myself lucky if I get 2 azerite abilities I want on a piece of gear. Asking for a perfect 4 is just unreasaonable
tough whale
I mean dazar azerite is good idk what you're complaining about
Having our shrouded on a mediocre peice feelsbad but overall the azerite is solid
vestal wren
offensive trait wise azerite is good
ebon current
I just want SSx3 and Echo blades x3 for lulz
raven mica
I cant think of a mechanic that isnt feintable or avoidable in M+ that gets super close to killing you in like a +15
and will kill you without a defensive in a higher key
raven mica
defensive azerite traits are gonna save you from a shit bursting?
proud spruce
just grind azerite levels 4head
tough whale
The sheer logic of saying defensives dont matter because you can feint is pretty weak
rustic ether
literally dozens of mechanics that arent avoidable and dozens of mechanics that can be shrugged off if you have the defensive traits,
@tough whale thank. ❤
ebon current
in a +15 if something looks at you, youre probably already dead
rustic ether
like i have two vampiric speeds on my m+ gear and that shit carries my healing
vestal wren
yes, i just went over my pieces, i have no usefull defensive trait so how usefull those depends on how good your azeirte supports it
raven mica
I'm using the logic of feint because like: other classes dont have feint
vestal wren
just have leech on each gear piece
rustic ether
thats still not an arguement
vestal wren
easy defensive
raven mica
so if defensives traits end up saving you, then odds are your fucking 3 other people in the group just died too
first boss Snekboi in temple is what's coming to mind rn
vestal wren
i liked them in uldir with 3x shield trait
rustic ether
there is literally no arguement dog
tough whale
^
raven mica
I'd stress out way more about like: the first 2 traits instead of defensives though
rustic ether
okay
tough whale
Well no shit
tough whale
But anyone who plays the game has the first 2
raven mica
not just unlocking them, but if they're shit traits
tough whale
The argument started about guilds with ring reqs for defensive traits
tough whale
??
raven mica
I thought it was about having a shit defensive trait or a good one
tough whale
Well we all agree the dazar defensive traits suck
But you dont pick azerite based on defensives
rustic ether
it was more like i complained about a defensive trait and then someone mocked me saying that no one should be worried about defnesives because theyre not that useful
vestal wren
no, the discussion was about casual guilds have very high trait requirements
e.g. requirement of 40-42 just to go hc
raven mica
yea that's ridiculous
those are also the same guilds that bench meme specs though
even if those people are good at meme specs
ebon current
Im not mocking you over you worrying about defensives. But I mean ... can you honestly find a piece of Azerite gear that has the defensive + all 3 Azerite traits that are ideal for you?
vestal wren
well if you are #1 in meter with a meme spec they wont 😉
raven mica
the waycrest chest has BiS sin M+ primaries, gutripper, and vampiric speed
tbh its a perfect sin M+ piece
rustic ether
@ebon current im not trying to do that
raven mica
but its also shit for everything else
rustic ether
im complaining that i shouldnt have to deal with a shit trait that has no use
raven mica
not like im touching sub the entire tier anyways
ebon current
I tried out Sub just cause it used to be fun... jesus christ its bad
vestal wren
its not bad tbh
raven mica
Yea no but like ive fucking seen it, casual guilds benching meme specs
My guild benched our unholy DK for fetid
he's a fucking 100 parsing unholy DK
rustic ether
its just the it does less dmg than the less punishing outlaw or sin
ebon current
I love me some Outlaw SnD meme builds
rustic ether
if you fuck up on sub youre actually just kinda fucked
raven mica
And even now
Like he wants to get his mage geared
Cuz he sees me simming for 22.5k on outlaw and 22.3k on sin
and then he sims at like 21.5 despite having BiS traits
raven mica
im like 407, my traits are shit
vestal wren
~395 or 396
proud spruce
yea i only sim at 19.8 at 395
tough whale
I havent simmed in a while, last i checked 406/23.5k ish
But I have meme azerite and can literally only do single target damage xd
vestal wren
my azerite is decent to my defense
raven mica
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qSchP8vcR572HMddQrV3P4
like other than my azerite being garbage
tell me what the fuck is up with me
vestal wren
and that plays a big role
tough whale
True
tough whale
No sockey
ebon current
God I fucking hate Titanforge
tough whale
Delete it
raven mica
got it out of my chest today
tough whale
Trash w/ no socket tho
raven mica
depleting that +17 siege was worth it
nocturne gate
ss<dd
tough whale
1ss is useful in raid environment tbh
raven mica
Yea well guess what my gear doesnt have DD on it
ebon current
I got a 410 Lustrous Golden Plumage today and I was happy enough
vestal wren
ss is a qol trait
raven mica
tbh I cant wait for 8.2
ebon current
I have 3 DD and get beat by a rogue 10 il lower cause hes got SSx3
raven mica
Give me a fucking incentive to get AP
tough whale
I cant wait for prog to be over
spice surge
I mean @raven mica , both your chest and shoulders have really scuffed traits
tough whale
So I go play other game
spice surge
for ST
tough whale
My normal jadefire shoulders are like 50dps higher than my mythic rastakhan ones
:)))
raven mica
lemme just go
proud spruce
well other than those 2, id say a 22.4k dps sim is fine
tough whale
Same
vestal wren
you should get heroic jadefire then 😉
spice surge
I simmed higher with a 390 DD/NP/op chest than that chest
raven mica
my other chest is the grong chest
tough whale
No azerite
raven mica
nocturne gate
my highest sim is with 2xdd 3x np 1x unstable
nocturne gate
on frida np is on second in dps meter behind env :D
tough whale
Depends on kill time
tough whale
Still depends on kill time
Cant say it's an op trait when you're on a fight where it has 35% uptime
spice surge
Well sure you can, its definitely op with a short killtime
spice surge
30s fights with 3x SS and 3x NP Pog
raven mica
tbh
if I get the M COTL helmet
I might go SS+TC on it
So I can save money on reforges to do M+
spice surge
Jaina last phase on methods mythic kill was like what? 1m?
spice surge
Which is the part where damage mattered
tough whale
I just built an outlaw set
raven mica
https://i.gyazo.com/thumb/1200/f846e13a0746ed56bbaa185cb4d09801-png.jpg
sorry bud I'm locked into sin for the rest of the tier
vestal wren
tbh the kill was rly clean
tough whale
And you CD the wall so it wont be up for last jaina build
spice surge
🤔
tough whale
First kill wall check is brutal
vestal wren
gc isnt bad on other specs (not as good as sin tho)
ebon current
I raged cause a hunter got GC from our Shrine run last week ... but then I got Harlan's dice right after so I couldnt bitch too much
tough whale
And it's very reasonable to expect people to sit in their gc tbow tier
Which makes it stronger
ebon current
Just take Golden Plumage and macro it to Vendetta. Both last 20 sec, both have 2m CDs. Hello meme NP builds.
tough whale
Xd
rustic ether
cant get rid of my 385 socketed plumage T>T
tough whale
385 socketed deadeye
rustic ether
how does deadeye work for aoe situations? i had it at 370 for like a day and never got to use it
spice surge
@tough whale Btw you dont (or well, method rogues didnt) vendetta on the wall
raven mica
really good for AOE
spice surge
Because damage afterwards is more relevant, as long as you kill the wall before you get frozen its fine
ebon current
Dead-eye is king for AOE cause of Crit
raven mica
it gives crit, and you just need to hit the taget
as long as you get 5 stacks before the marked target dies
or hell, it gets more value if the marked target lives the whole duration
prisma beacon
thx
ebon current
I have an AOE set of Azerite/Trinkets that have Echo x2, Scent of Blood x2, and SSx1 ... then I spec into Crimson Tempest. Broken AOE
inner temple
why does bloodmallet/herodamage sim with master assassin instead of subterfuge? noone seems to use MA kinda thing.
tough whale
I use MA. It's a pure ST sim so MA does surpass with the best traits
for patchwerk
I know there are sims for ss with and without subterfuge, but when its ordering its single target its simming for best single target
inner temple
would grong count as this / why would 8/8 assassination rogues be taking subterfuge instead of MA then?
8 of 10 rogues in top ten kills are assassination, gives 8/8 stat***
tough whale
Because they have traits that are better suited for subterfuge most likely
You cant take these sims literally
cobalt pelican
no current tier raid boss is patchwerk sim
tough whale
^
inner temple
as in having more shrouded suff traints isntead of double dose kind of thing?
tough whale
Or what fight you're on
inner temple
yeah i get that, im asking why the baseline sim doesnt reflect "what players are doing" is all
opal minnow
1ss is probs going to put subt over MA for sims, and make subt better in raid
inner temple
gotcha
tough whale
If you're interested in what YOU should run etc, use raidbots
cobalt pelican
baseline sims are always pure st because it's the easiest most meaningful sim for apples to apples comparisons
tough whale
^
tough whale
Like I run MA because i have 0ss 3dd, it's just better for my damage. If I get a ss peice and are on a fight I can utilize it better I'd switch to subter
cobalt pelican
the only other alternative really is writing sim scenarios for each boss which gets incredibly complex incredibly quickly unless you're just 'guessing' uptimes and mechanics
inner temple
yeah
tough whale
Its like uldir, MA simmed higher, but didnt preform as well in uldir because you could multi ss garrote on almost every fight
rustic ether
so something wierd happened today when i sewrver transferred to madoran...
inner temple
guild chat reading wrong server?
rustic ether
nope
a bit wierder
i logged in
and had 7 385 pieces of azerite
6 shoulders and 1 helm
in bags
inner temple
item restoration happen by default now maybe?
rustic ether
all were 8.0 traits so they only had one trait
and i just scrapped them all and got 250ish residuum
inner temple
nice
rustic ether
also, got 5k gold in my bags (had 300ish because i bought out dalarans AH)
and i had fresh emissaries :L
inner temple
wonder if theyre cheating on the xfer and creating you a new character then adding your items to it
tough whale
well 8.0 traits could still give residuum
rustic ether
well it was just wierd that theyre 4 traits instead of 5 and theyre dungeon pieces
inner temple
new character boosts will prob have azerite pieces, 385 is the new "bottom of the barrel" decent stuffs + the baseline gold
rustic ether
oooh shit maybe
inner temple
xfer now = "new char boost" then match items over, prob just forgot to remove the boosts items too lol
^total guessswork here btw
rustic ether
yeah that may be honestly
actually maybe not because two of the shoulder pieces were duped
the golden laced spaulders or w/e and the pistoleer shoulders
rustic ether
nah i didnt have them
they just gave me two pairs in the 7 i got
yeah and the headpiece i had WOULD have EB SS on it T.T
if it had only had 5 traits instead of 4
inner temple
lol
rustic ether
that honestly would have been an upgrade as my only heappiece is 390 with DD EB :S
inner temple
have SS / treacherous cov on helm so not to bad
rustic ether
im praying to god i get the mythic helm form first tonight
tough whale
same
inner temple
shoulderss is all im missing now with nothing personal / double dose
rustic ether
my first azerite piece i bought was shoulder with SS/BI for m+ and DD/NP for ST so im happy af about those
raven mica
sittin here with my
inner temple
eb/ss chest for me 😃
rustic ether
@inner temple that kinda feelsbad seeing as how the conclave chest has that already xD
raven mica
SS/SoB shoulders
tough whale
o o f
raven mica
from jaina
inner temple
which chest is it that they drop @rustic ether ? maybe i got it idk
99% M+ player, rarely raid
tough whale
yeah jaina shoulders are in my outlaw set lmao
raven mica
Vestments of Indomitable will
inner temple
yeah thats what i have
proud spruce
i got mekkatorque chest, guess its not too bad if its the only one giving me NP?
and DD or TC?
rustic ether
OOH i see now
tough whale
mekka chest is good
raven mica
Mekkatorque is the best ST chest from raid
tough whale
great st
proud spruce
aye lets get it
tough whale
its got trech on it too
proud spruce
do you use DD or TC?
raven mica
Run NP/DD on that
proud spruce
yea
tough whale
sim dat shit
raven mica
Run DD/TC on the other 2 pieces
make bank
EZ
smash ur other rogue
and then see him get all theloot
proud spruce
now i just need your trinket
raven mica
fuck you mcvanquish
Anyone else just
feel like
Running a flex from a sick ass tiddyforge into the ground
Like this one war who got a 425+socket weapon off of first boss
spice surge
I mean, its a good trinket for DHs too
tough whale
hence why i said luck
vestal wren
gz i guess
raven mica
Actually a hunter got that exact trinket last week
vestal wren
tbh i think its nice if somone gets a nice tf
raven mica
One of the BMs from one of our heroic teams
vestal wren
i dont envy them
raw tusk
What level Jaina?
tough whale
M
raw tusk
Hell yeah hows it going so far? I know it just reset but like overall
raven mica
Almost like they undertuned the raid because they thought gear would be more in control
tough whale
not even, the mechanics are pretty simple too
spice surge
More like they probably undertuned the raid because most of uldir was tuned too high for a lot of people
tough whale
most bosses just feel like higher tuned heroics
raven mica
I feel like
Other than big mythrax
pre-nerf
and obviously ghuun
actually im not gonna finish that thought
raw tusk
Fetid was a meme
tough whale
???? you must have done post nerf
raven mica
Yea we didnt touch fetid until just before the last nerf
raw tusk
Probably I took some time off
raw tusk
I feel like heroic was relatively easy if you had the dps
raw tusk
Myth was wild
raven mica
myth was stupid prenerf
raven mica
we only ever touched him post nerf
tough whale
the orb nerf?
raven mica
yea
tough whale
he was easy before that
raven mica
we had a really heavy melee roster
raw tusk
Yeah fast switch is not a melee strong suit
raven mica
Ok srsly lets not shittalk the raid testing team
tough whale
yikers
raven mica
theyre actually pretty good
them clearing KJ "faster than intended"
created the horror of M KJ pre-nerfs
honest onyx
Heya, best gem on Opulence?
honest onyx
ok
tough whale
LUL
lost sentinel
makes sense for LFR
raven mica
IDK I memed with my guildies and was like "LETS DO LFR"
one of my guildies screams leeroy and just runs into the opulence room
tall basalt
proud spruce
yea loaded dice is stronk
buoyant flicker
new raid trinks still shit
spice surge
@warm geode https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/he1kA7BGZ97ovD7B9kuyjP
Didnt even bother simming with SS because its not a good singletarget trait previously
fleet whale
the mekk trinket is pretty good from the new raid
spice surge
But here you go
warm geode
@spice surge last time i sim, 3dd 3ss subterfuge and tb was the best, idk atm
spice surge
Its not that twist is better than NP
Its that overwhelming power is so much better than anything else in the third row
spice surge
There are no haste caps anywhere
tardy stratus
ye but i mean, something viable
or just full crit mastery
like i can 27% crit / 7% hast / 44% mastery
inner pecan
sounds fine
don't sacrifice too much ilvl for ideal stats or w/e
don't need to overthink too much but at equal ilvl you can prio crit mastery
fleet whale
the bracers i got from my chest were a 25 ilvl upgrade, too bad the stats were high crit low verse...
inner pecan
almost certainly gonna be better than anything you have
fleet whale
still and upgrade but i wish it had either haste or even mastery over the verse
inner pecan
vers isn't really that bad
all stats are fine, worst stat is generally agility so yeah
fleet whale
yeah, and it was high crit, and besides stat weights are kind of weird right now
mastery and haste are tied, crit not that far below it
fleet whale
verse is the lowest but not that low now that i'm looking at it, and agi is the bottom by a good amount
stable pine
Herodamage has got NP as top trait atm?
fleet whale
imagine getting a 425 first mate's spyglasss
plain thistle
LETS GO BOYS 😃
weak isle
MA > SS
thorn crypt
Okay, my search function is still broke for whatever reason
plain thistle
3DD, 1SS, 1 NP and 1 TTK 😃 I think im fine
thorn crypt
What's the optimal strat for Jadefire? Obviously you have to switch to mage when monk is gone, but otherwise do you bother keeping dots on both?
Or just focus monk
sonic spindle
Is it normal for scent of blood to sim lower than twist the knife on hectic add cleave?
plain thistle
@gusty kestrel what setup would you play for most bosses? GC + DICE or GC + dead-eye spyglass? both sim virtually the same for me
GC sim 250 dps more than dice + spyglass, because my GC is 410
🤔
yeah, for some bosses ill not play with GC, too much movement
mythic conclave movement is every 1:10 minutes isnt it? the paku thing
mastery above haste again 😂
amber trench
Its like we are back in legion
On conclave you might get unlucky and be forced to move for kimbul and akunda orbs
And tstorm cast
Kimbul pounce
warm geode
@spice surge maybe u r right for full ST https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/22fjyWzNdLbsULEMTfTRZt