it's an anti-variance argument
#assassination
rose perch
real bay
thats oof sim
fiery cradle
big oof
real bay
I'm 8 ilvls lower and sim more
fiery cradle
feels good
real bay
got cloak ring set, it's p nice
rose sapphire
@rose perch thing is I want to fit 2 evenoms in the crit buff of MA and doing the vanish even gives me higher chances pulling it of
rose perch
yeah you have to decide between going for 2 envenoms in there or going for 1 envenom 1 tb in there
rose perch
you can basically always get 1 env 1 tb, or you can roll the dice and try to get 2 env
you're always at the mercy of the 1 mut in the MA window if you try to have the other 2 globals be envs
rose sapphire
but where do u see a dps increase in ur rotation over the vanish evenom
I cant rlly see how ur rotation pulls of more dps
rose perch
i mean tb is a hard hitting ability it's a good one to give +crit to as well
rose sapphire
but arnt u giving it when u cast it in opener and when u pull vanish evenom it will have +crit? 😛
spice surge
MA gives all abilities crit
rose sapphire
yes
spice surge
Not just envenom
rose sapphire
I know
rose perch
Ok your choices are: Vanish Envenom Mutilate Envenom or
Vanish TB Mutilate Envenom
now that first one if the mutilate in the middle doesn't crit
you don't get to envenom
the second one you don't have that variance
rose sapphire
but both gives 100% 1 evenom crit
rose perch
no they don't
rose sapphire
I mean under the crit buff
not 100% to crit
both options gives evenom a higher chance to crit
rose perch
yes but if you go vanish envenom mutilate and that mutilate doesn't crit
rose sapphire
while the first one gives u 2 chances?
rose perch
then you have to vanish envenom mutilate mutilate
inner pecan
it's not about the envenom crit it's about the mutilate not critting
and not having enough CPs
rose sapphire
Vanish Envenom Mutilate Envenom = 1 envenom empowered with MA + mby 1 more
Vanish TB Mutilate Envenom = only 1 envenom and not a chance for another 1
whats so hard
inner pecan
lol
next wolf
real bay
maybe he has over 100% crit
spice surge
Envenom isnt the only ability you have that does damage
rose perch
Your options are 1 Envenom for sure and 1 (Maybe mutilate, maybe envenom) OR 1 Envenom and 1 TB for sure
spice surge
Although if you have 3x DD the first option is basicly always better
Since mutilate does more damage than tb
rose sapphire
i cant see how ur math works
rose perch
or really like 90%+
rose sapphire
lets talk about only tb
inner pecan
no the important thing to understand is mutilate
do you understand how mutilate crits work
rose sapphire
if u cast it in opener u will still have +3 crit increased TB when vanishing evenom
also when u vanish and do tb
I cant see the dif
inner pecan
do you understand that (env - mutilate - env) is not guaranteed
rose perch
ok wait you want TB to be one of your first 3 globals out of stealth?
rose sapphire
but who cares both optioons gives u atleast 1 EVENOM TB with crit increase
crude bay
Is this with MA or without @inner pecan
rose sapphire
MA
rose perch
@rose sapphire for you "both options" means one where you open Garrote --> TB --> Rupture?
crude bay
Why?
inner pecan
at a very small % difference
inner pecan
one has more variance, the other does slightly less dmg on avg but is more consistent
rose perch
it has the highest average dps by an amount that is either negligible or not depending on your setup
crude bay
Why does it have more variance?
rose perch
because the mut doesn't always crit
crude bay
It does
crude bay
Isnt MA still 100% crit?
rose perch
no it's 50%
crude bay
Or has it never been?
inner pecan
no it's 50% crit
rose perch
it was 100% in legion
crude bay
I only play subterfuge anyways
inner pecan
lol
mortal slate
rofl
rose sapphire
Garrote + muti + rapture (3 sec) then u go vandetta + tb + muti into vanish with evenom (gives u 3 sec TB + evenom) + MBY if u are lucky another evenom
Second option garrote + muti + rapture then u go vandetta into vanish tb + evenom + muti (3 sec)
both options gives TB 3 sec under crit increase with MA
inner pecan
then maybe dont butt into a conversation that you don't know about 😃
crude bay
I can butt into whatever the fuck i want, thank you
rose perch
yes but the up front damage of TB is very significant @rose sapphire
so you have the option to have that get the crit benefit
crude bay
There is a what, 15% chance for the muti to not crit
rose perch
so you have the option to give +50% crit to:
1 TB
1 Mutilate
1 Envenom
or
1 Mutilate
1 Envenom
1 (Maybe Envenom, Maybe Mutilate)
crude bay
What is the dmg difference if the muti doesnt crit @inner pecan
spice surge
He never mentioned the opener hollister, only vanish
rose sapphire
still both opts gives u a 3 sec crit increase on tb
spice surge
The damage difference between a 2cp envenom and a 4cp is pretty big @crude bay
Basicly double
rose perch
you can play either opener they both work
for mythic progression i prefer the one with less variance until i'm running 3 DD
rose sapphire
I know both work, but I trying to convince myself how vanish + tb is same
crude bay
Im asking whats the dmg difference between the TB muti envenom and the envenom muti envenom 2cp
rose sapphire
u will never ever cast a 2cp evenom
spice surge
You wouldnt envenom with 2 cp
rose sapphire
so its irrelevant
rose perch
yeah you would mutilate in that spot
inner pecan
like 30 simdps on avg between both
rose perch
and do less damage
inner pecan
30 more for env-muti-env but more variance
rose perch
than if you had done the TB
the 30 simdps number changes based on your crit, and based on the number of DD traits you run
spice surge
and twist traits too
rose perch
yeah that too
as you get more crit, env/mut/env becomes more reliable and tb/mut/env actually becomes guaranteed to WASTE a CP
crude bay
How much crit ppl got?
wild lily
30
crude bay
What point is that dratnos? What crit %
spice surge
?
rose perch
idk haven't done the math, i'd guess 35-40ish
wild lily
at 40% crit 90% chance to crit with ma right
summer marten
with 30% crit its 4% chance to get only 2cp, 64% for 4cp and 32% for 3cp
crude bay
Id never play anything that averages less dmg even with lower variance tho
summer marten
with 40% crit its 1% to get 2cp, 81% for 4cp and 18% for 3cp
crude bay
On average you do more dmg with envenom - muti - envenom, dont you? why it sims higher? Why is it even a question
if it sims the highest
Dont settle for less my dudes, go hard
sinful lotus
So with 3 DD traits, wwhich option would you use?
spice surge
This isnt a very complex topic
inner pecan
Env-Muti-Env with DD
rose perch
3DD you want to vanish env/mut/env
real bay
because sim does literally 10k pulls so even bad rng evens out
wild lily
i think its cool
rose perch
yeah I'm presenting the argument that I believe in to sacrifice a very minor number of simdps for an important amount of reliability
sinful lotus
ok cool that's what i've been doing. G-Mut-Rup---Vend-TB-Mut--Vanish/Mut/Env
crude bay
But on average its just worse
spice surge
Thats not relevant
inner pecan
tbh if you want reliability just play Subt
sinful lotus
*meant Vanish Env, Mut, Env
wild lily
i've been doing the tb->muti after ven
i have very high crit though depending on procs
rose perch
yes @sinful lotus that's a valid opener (Assuming you go vanish/env not vanish/mut there)
sinful lotus
Yes Vanish Env. Jumped mid way into this chat and scrolled up but wasn't sure what I had missed.
rose perch
yeah being a sad boy is a noticeably bad thing when we're trying to reliably make a dps push every pull
real bay
some people like to blindly look at sim
rose perch
like maximizing your 20th percentile DPS is something that i don't think people don't consider often enough if mythic progression is the goal
wild lily
they need to like get rid of sub and give us a new spec like shadow warrior
sinful lotus
I sincerely apologize if I missed elements in this conversation (i did scroll up to see what i had missed, but it's hard to put all the pieces together). Is the argument whether or not to Cast TB before or after the Vanish during the MA window?
crude bay
its Vanish TB Muti Envenom Vs Vanish Envenom Muti Envenom
sinful lotus
Ok, option A people are saying is safer, and option B people are saying is more dmg, but more variable?
crude bay
Yeah, sorry, tb envenom muti
rose perch
mm right i forgot about that
spice surge
Yes pickle
crude bay
How much more dmg is 1 TB vs 1 Muti?
rose perch
like i play vanish env/mut/env on farm and vanish tb/env/mut on progression generally
spice surge
Depends on your traits nundo
crude bay
At say 3x DD, most ppl have that for progression
spice surge
with multiple dds and envenom buff up, mutilate does more
inner pecan
I just don't play MA on prog, haven't seen a reason to even tho it sims 80 dps higher
and im on jaina rn
its strictly worse gameplay wise imo
real bay
80 is nothing
inner pecan
yep thats my reasoning
sinful lotus
Thank you @spice surge . Why is that @rose perch because on farm you don't care about missing out on the 2nd Env during your MA window? Whereas on progression the safer Vanish TB Mut Env, will do more dmg than a Vanish Env Mut (3cP) (MA)fall off, Env>?
crude bay
Never gonna play MA myself anyways
rose sapphire
i just gonna stick to vanish evenom as we played it in legion imo it just feels better
spice surge
Idk, subterfuge just feels awful when running TB imo
Vanish eels like such a low impact spell then
wild lily
anything with the words sub in it feel awful
rose perch
yeah @sinful lotus it's basically a question between whether i'm optimizing my average damage or if i'm willing to make some sacrifices to improve my bad-case damage
spice surge
Whereas with MA you get them crits
inner pecan
6 CPs in 2 globals I wouldn't call low impact
sinful lotus
Ok thank you @rose perch !
vestal wren
MA beeing 50% can lead to bad feedback
rose perch
idk i mean I have also mostly been playing subterfuge this tier for prog even now with a 35 dps higher MA build available
vestal wren
does not mean its bad
crude bay
MA has zero multi target value
sinful lotus
you play Subt even without any SS traits?
rose perch
i have 2SS
sinful lotus
ah
rose perch
they could be 1DD1Filthy Transfusion
inner pecan
I would say it's bad when I'm doing pushes that are very important to have reliable dps
aka M jaina p3
and I have to rely on a 50% crit talent
really cba
rose perch
crude bay
What guild you in
rose perch
a couple days old
inner pecan
club camel us
idle ember
We're starting Jadefire tonight, I had every intent to go assass until I watched Dratnos video and it looked so much easier just to focus on the individual mechanics and cleave the rest.
sinful lotus
The Sim you linked, that's not what you're actually wearing for raid is it? You said you were using 2x SS
rose perch
yeah i'm using the 23,515 with subt/exs build
that one's nice for the bosses i'm on because it loads so much dmg into vendetta that if i get mechanics outside of vendetta i lose less dmg
sinful lotus
Ah alright that makes sense.
crude bay
How you play with exs btw? How does it line up for the bosses youre at?
Havent played it in bod
inner pecan
you delay Vendetta by 20s for ur 3rd exsg if you wont miss a vendetta cast
same gameplay as uldir rly
crude bay
I know how to play it, i meant like how does it feel in bod
rose perch
yeah that was NBD on mekkatorque because your 3rd vendetta gets delayed anyway
crude bay
poorly wording sorry
rose perch
idk i liked TB better on Rasta and i'm liking it better on stormwall too
inner pecan
last boss I played Exsg on was Rastakhan for 3SS cleave but haven't been playing personally since ive rolled 415 DD azerites
rose perch
but exs felt great on opulence
spice surge
MA variance isnt actually that high tbh, since a lot of the power is loaded into making sure your bleeds/autos/poisons are critting as well, it just feels a lot more random
In my sims variance goes from 3.3% to 3.4% when using MA, which is basicly nothing
rose perch
yeah i'm reasonably confident i'll play MA next raid day on stormwall
we're doing this like cooldown delay strat ><
so my opener is all scuffed anyway
that's good to know though eleem i would have guessed it was more than that
your profile is doing env/mut/env yeah?
spice surge
All profiles are doing that most of the time
Sometimes it uses garrote which is a big ❓
rose perch
i was seeing them go with TB on the opener
a few ones i looked at at least
but ya the garrotes i've seen too lmao
big ol 
spice surge
Oh yeah, seems like it does tb in opener
Later ones are without tb though
So idk 🤷
spice surge
Idk seems like one or the other would be better, il poke one of the simc gods to see if they can have a look and see if they find anything
I can edit most things in the apl but the opener always seem to be rigid regardless of what i do so i just cba 🤷
rose perch
ya i wish you could just like program in an opener
wicked sluice
Finally hit the 20k Klub boys
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rS2xCd3MAcn7zRyCE4VYYX
alpine pilot
Hey guys, i hav a question about 2nd potion usage; which yields more damage? using the 2nd pot wen my 2nd vanish vendetta and tb line up, or using it when my raid pops lust but my cds are not up?
spice surge
Ideally you should have your cooldowns ready for BL
Unless you would lose a cast across the fight its better to hold them for BL
But to answer your question, vendetta for overall higher damage
patent topaz
always bl on pull xd
alpine pilot
thanks
strange python
What's this BL and second potion?
sleek cargo
does the nothing personal energy gain stack with multiple pieces? or just damage
spice surge
With every trait in the game, damage/healing/stats always stack and anything else never does
sleek cargo
rgr that thank you
tiny totem
Hey, maybe this is a stupid question but I haven't found any guide that mentions this, given I have enough energy/cp do I envenom right before elaborate planning drops off for the 10% extra dmg or do I wait until after it drops for maximum buff uptime?
tiny totem
Ok that's what I was doing but I wasn't sure, thx
stable fog
Yo fellow sin rogues would someone care to help me out with my azerite traits for mythic+ 10+ keys and above....im slightly confused with this azerite thing and not entirely sure what to go for, for mythic+ and was for example wondering if teh
there we some traits that are a must have regardless of tyrannical or fortified
ivory sluice
Bonjour, je recherche un Voleur assa à prétention de raid mythique Francais car mon anglais ne me permet pas de structurer quelque chose de correct pour une aide TC / gameplay afin de me perfectionner s'il vous plait, il y a t'il une personne pouvant satisfaire ma requête ? 😃
stable fog
ofc i am aware that i must have shrouded suffocation no matter what
inner pecan
shrouded suffocation and echoing blades are your best m+ traits generally
there are some people running a poison build that utilizes toxic blade and twist the knife with poison bomb for priority dmg but it's more specialized
spice surge
Even the people running the twist build are using multiple echoing and atleast 1 SS
so its basicly any combination of those 3 traits
stable fog
aight but there is really no dps to gain on single target from echoing blades so should i stack this regardless of loosing out on ST dmg tyrannical weeks or should i switch them for for example double dose on tyr
inner pecan
even on tyrannical weeks the majority of a dungeon is trash
spice surge
Most of the time spent in the dungeon is on trash mobs, regardless of affix
inner pecan
my opinion is that double dose is never good for m+
but stuff like passive stat increases (blightborne or something) would do well on both bosses and trash if you have it
stable fog
so i should aim to stack echoing blades and SS or should i prioritize other trait at some point for increased Cleave or ST dmg scent of blood is a descent trait as well i think
dusk turret
Dratnos has a vid on azerite traits too which might be worth a look. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ostuUARw7o
inner pecan
Echoing Blades is for mass aoe, SS/Scent for cleave, TTK for prio dmg
stable fog
or just flat out get as many ss eb as possible and the pieces that don't have trait choose the next best thing?
inner pecan
those are just the two safest picks to go with if you're not sure what to play
but there's plenty of optimization to be done based on a shitton of factos
so you're gonna have to play around with what you have and see for yourself to really perfectly optimize
stable fog
well im not entirely unsure which traits to stack i have the genrel idea of what works well in m+ what mostly just wondering when to stack the traits and when for example a double dose would out do a 3. ss
inner pecan
echoing blades will do well in places like freehold/motherlode/shrine
round harbor
It's been said like 8 times
inner pecan
ss will be best for cleave so KR/temple/underrot
there's really not an easy answer to give you unfortunately
but ss/eb/ttk/sob are the ones to look out for, outside of that general stat increases like blightborne or treacherous
stable fog
aight thanks alot for answering my question guys sadly im a little slow too pick up on stuff like this but when i first got it sticks! have a nice evening
crude bay
Always aim for triple ss in m+, no trait gets more value in than that in m+, because of frequent restealths
hollow stone
Nah. Eb > ss in general for m+ unless you pull little baby packs
pure epoch
How much energy do u need to get 3 envenoms off during tb? without rng crits
stable fog
aight i can get 3xss with pieces i have available atm but it would mean taking a 15 ilvl downgrade. worth it?
hollow stone
Me thinks you gotta rephrase that question shiinoa. Currently the answer is "the energy cost of 3 env" which is like, what? 105?
- muta
hollow stone
Prob worth it. But depends what its replacing @stable fog
inner pecan
@pure epoch mostly depends on your haste and crit
stable fog
Applejuice the downgrade in ilvl would mean i could run 3xss but only 1xeb istead of two so i could be wrong but 2xeb and 2xss is better than 1xeb and 3xss or am i wrong?
hollow stone
Of equal ilvl, 2 eb 2 ss is better imo. Are you saying drop 1 of those eb for a 15 ilvl lower ss piece?
If thats what youre saying, dont do it. Just keep the 2/2 combo
stable fog
yes
chilly hazel
anyone know how does Cloak work with [Bwonsamdi's Wrath] on Conclave Mythic?
stable fog
kk once again thank you for answering my questions i appriciate am up 20k to reforge my azerite for playing around with gotta a descent traits build with gear before i go broke
chilly hazel
i reached 600k and chance on reforge 2 days ago
stable fog
hold sh... that was some really poor sentence construction and spelling on my part....maybe i should go to bed an bit earlier tonight haha hope you understand what i wrote 😃
night vale
See it could be a placebo... but my dmg In m+ is higher with 3x370 EB + SS pieces than in my raid 415 gear
hollow stone
No.. that makes sense
If youre saying your st boss dmg in m+ w eb and ss is better than your st boss dmg in raid, well, thats a problem
night vale
No no :p I run 3xss + EB (they’re 370 pieces) 394 ilvl overall and did almost 30k overall in underot 14 last night
Before that I was running at 405 ilvl without those traits and doing less overall
hollow stone
Yea, thats makes sense. Shows how strong the traits are (esp on teeming fort week)
night vale
Yep! I recently switch from sub and am trying to get the hang of m+! But I really like the EB procs In reaping :)... FoK + EB is usually almost 35% of my overall damage
hollow stone
Yea. Its a beautiful sight. Now try outlaw and see that reaping dmg :p
night vale
I would if I had a decent 1 hander 😦
night vale
Nice!!!
cold meteor
Got a Yu Lon 405, your opinion about it for M+ ?
hollow stone
Strong trinket overall. Very good for outlaw. Good for all specs in general for m+
cold meteor
don't really know how it scales in big pull
dusky gyro
yulon trinket isnt good for aoe compared to single target
cold meteor
don't know if I should ditch my 415GCB or 400 dice for it 
primal gazelle
gcb sucks in m+
high siren
dull osprey
Are there any convenient macros for yulon’s trinket and the gigavolt one? Or am I stuck flailing about with more buttons to push?
I hate activation trinkets, but they are the best ones I have
primal gazelle
haste is shit value in M+
sturdy python
Have to keybind them pale. Yulon doesn't like up with anything and the giga is random when you'll want to activate it
strange python
has anything changed since uldir?
sturdy python
For assassin specifically? New traits is all basically
strange python
thanks
solid nova
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
dull osprey
okay... rip. When do I activate giga? whenever I'm in burst or whenever its at max?
spice surge
Whenever its at max
swift roost
How does my opener look on say a 2+ mob group in a mythic+ ?
Do I use vendetta before spreading the dots, or after?
trail bronze
Vendetta is damage on a specific target - I would use it after on the most dangerous mob in a pack and hold it for upcoming boss or big baddie in an upcoming pack
real bay
this
swift roost
So I open on a mob pack by building my dots on up to 3 targets and using fan of knives for cb generation and dot spreading, and when everything has been applied start using vendetta+toxic blade on the priority target?
Btw how do I use toxic blade optimally?
earnest pilot
hey guys, gearing up (just started bfa) and got a 370 helm. should i take scent of blood or echoing blades?
ik echoing blades is better for clearing trash but is it worth taking
steep obsidian
ehcoing for trash sob at least gives you some st damage although small
sob can be really good for trash with 4+ ruptures out too though
earnest pilot
i also dont have very high crit
only 344 ilvl
so i dont think it would proc that often
steep obsidian
2+ echoing is quite strong especially on reaping
steep obsidian
19% is a little low but probalby still worth
you can sim it using dungeon slice
if you want exact numbers
on raidbots.com
steep obsidian
that mixes up some single target and trash like in an m+
earnest pilot
ive only ever used raidbots for topgear
steep obsidian
just have to change the option from patchwerk to dungeon slice
bleak spoke
dungeon slice is pretty scuffed tho
bleak spoke
can sim 10t40s without buffs/lust
outer rune
i dont have aoe traits yet for my sin i just got a piece with ss and EB on outer ring which one i pick for m+ ? its gonna be the first trait for both
bleak spoke
SS/EB pieces are very strong
steep obsidian
do people do 10 target 40s pulls?
earnest pilot
think ill just go ST for now then use an offset for aoe?
steep obsidian
i dont think i ever have but im not a pro
lol
i guess you have to on really high keys to kmake timer
outer rune
@bleak spoke i can choose only 1 of them
bleak spoke
if you don't already have SS take SS
it's huge damage from pack to pack but the way you play it means you're doing extremely efficient damage while giving your team defensive utility
if you're not afraid of reforging a bit play around with it and see what you like i guess
lament depot
When you run MP, Mastery becomes your best secondary stat, right?
strange python
any one knows about the bug of tricks?
if i try to tricks it comes: "invalid target"
spice surge
I dont know if there is any sane combination of gear you could have currently which would make MP better than EP
@strange python Either they are mounted or they are using neural silencers
strange python
both not
i think: okay macro is fucked
then i tryed book spell
same result
not mounted not neural silencers
2 different tanks
lament depot
Yeah, I know EP is better, I just wanted to try something poison-centric for fun heh
mossy abyss
guys my sin sim seems really low for 396, anything that jump to mind would be a big upgrade? is there anything obvious im missing?
spice surge
Fairly bad azerite and missing the 3:rd ring on your chest
unkempt forge
Enchant
spice surge
Poor mans enchants/get weapon enchants that isnt vers
fleet whale
you only really need one NP trait if you are going to use that trait at all, and the dd/ss combo is weird
i think Master Assassin would sim higher for you in ST, but it would make that SS trait you currently have almost worthless in ST
mossy abyss
hmm
bold hearth
For being 396 your shoulders are pretty low ilvl and you're neck level isn't high enough to get 3rd trait in your chest.
spice surge
Almost certainly not worht using MA as long as you have 1 SS equiped
mossy abyss
gonna try to play around with the azerites then
fleet whale
also, you are missing wep enchant on off-hand
and use crit/haste wep enchants if st is your goal
spice surge
Or haste+mastery, as that is very likely to sim higher with those weights
mossy abyss
yes changed them to haste/mastery, completely forgot about that since its my old outlaw off hand and a spare dagger i had lol
fleet whale
your haste is fairly low too at your ilvl, so make sure you use haste ring enchants and gems
mossy abyss
is it really that low? I seem to have it in almost every piece. should I have like 1.5k+?
spice surge
Just equip what sims the highest
Typically as long as you dont have too much vers your stats are fine
crystal barn
hey guys, sorry to interrupt - can rogues solo the coin shower on oppulence? do we use cloak of shadows or evasion?
plain thistle
no we cant
spice surge
No, neither of those work
plain thistle
😃
fleet whale
no, maybe cheat death procs it
spice surge
No, cheat death can only take 2x of your hp as overkill
plain thistle
coin shower on mythic is above the cap
crystal barn
i suspected as much - ty for saving me from looking like a fool - my guildies were saying rogues can solo - i wasn't so sure
fleet whale
but just stack for it, it's not that hard of a mechanic to deal with
spice surge
No
You dont on mythic
Then you kill everybody
There is a 200IQ way to soak it though @plain thistle
Go into liquid gold and pop your cheat death with less than 3 seconds remaining on the shower, cloak, get lay on hands and pop feint
But it requires you to have gemhides as well to survive 😄
And only works on the first few
steep obsidian
lol
everyone knows you use cheat death to improve your dps not to help the raid with mechanics
gosh /s
plain thistle
jesus, thats a lot of work, I rather just die 😂
spice surge
Same tbh
plain thistle
if you do everything perfect, you can afford to do p2 with 3-4 ppl dead tbh
mossy abyss
better I guess, time to farm some more haste pieces https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rqjPFj1mdFB6NHwmgQnvyw
raw tusk
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/242tpEdJpEUVQbNJ3yDfE9 Any recommendations for gear swaps? Aside was the obvious need new wep
dull osprey
So the ideal Azerite powers are the top ranked ones and we should be aiming at getting as many of those as possible?
ashen hollow
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
dull osprey
So, when I pool for TB as it's coming off cd, my bleeds are often needing to be refreshed. Because of this, I have to hold off on my TB for a few gcds as I refresh. Is this a common issue that is fixed with rotation tweaking or just bad luck?
raw tusk
I have the same problem sometimes
tawny iris
if im not mistaken, if your using galecallers you have to hold it for a few seconds anyway for it to line up. Thats how i play
obsidian ridge
anyone around here with multiple eb/ss traits able to tell me if you're able to compete with outlaw with these traits?
on reaping taht is
hardy anchor
I can usually keep up around 40-80k DPS depending on the reaping with 3SS 1 EB
obsidian ridge
thats what I'm doing too. problem is outlaw dps averages like 30k above that
hardy anchor
I reckon Outlaw will always have more tho, but it's still good enough while not sacrificing ST
Yeah, tho the reaping packs aren't too scary. So long as you're running with other AOE burst classes you're not losing out.
obsidian ridge
yeah, i know that. but you know how it is. im a dps player, i want to be on top in every situation
spice surge
For overall damage outlaw is definitely better
obsidian ridge
my problem is i have the worst loot luck this tier so .. gearing 2 specs is really hard if i dont want to respec azerite pieces every 10 minutes
spice surge
But that doesn't mean it's always better
obsidian ridge
i mean i cleared hc 3 times, got 10 mythic boss kills or something and so far i have one azerite piece and thats it.
hardy anchor
Outlaw rogue in my guild pumps like crazy ST and AOE so at the end of the day it's just a matter of what style you prefer.
obsidian ridge
oh, i forgot. first id i dropped the pants from stormwall i think. i got 2 pieces of loot from raid.
hardy anchor
I had the opposite problem :' ) 8/9 loot drops from HC
Dumped all my coins pretty quick too, but loot's loot.
obsidian ridge
dh from my group has 409 equipped ilvl. first 3 mythic bosses 3 azerite pieces.
hardy anchor
407 in bags here. Can't complain ❤
small hollow
can someone explain to me why in every guide it says TB on CD, yet I see a lot of top rogues just waiting for high CP before they use it?
hardy anchor
Generally you wanna use it as close to on CD as possible, but bank a little before you use it.
spice surge
You can use it at high cp without waiting
obsidian ridge
still i doubt they delay for more than 1 or 2 globals
small hollow
i mean i was watching perfectos stream during progression and there were times were he kept it for a few gcds
sturdy python
Unless you're looking at certain fights on mythic where they have it up for adds
dull osprey
If I have full cp as TB comes off cd, do I waste the cp from TB to get a full envenom off or cast the envenom and then cast TB?
sturdy python
Could've just forgot or focused on mechanics first. Or held it for a specific moment they absoluteky needed more dps
TB then envenom
dull osprey
So the damage increased offsets the loss of points from TB
sturdy python
Yes, as eleem puts it TB is 20% of an envenom but TB buffs that envenom by 30%
dull osprey
fair enough!
sturdy python
So the envenom buffed is higher than one (maybe 2) cps
raw tusk
Outlaws real good if you get the right buff. But you have an 80% chance to get 1 buff and only 1outta6 is the buff you need so sometimes the rng can be so bad you don’t do anything for 5 rolls
hardy anchor
I saw a bunch of Sin rogues using Plummage instead of Galecallers. Never messed around with it personally, but any opinions on it?
sturdy python
It's good, doesn't have the downside of gcb
empty tide
i got a 410 plummage , its 2 mins so lines up pretty good with vendetta vanish everytime
sturdy python
Vers isn't the best stat but not any other similar on use trinkets available
hardy anchor
Flat DPS increase is always nice tho I guess. Losing uptime in my Galecallers is always pepeHands
small hollow
plumage certainly feels nice with vendetta
empty tide
i get 75k-80k envenoms with plummage+MA
ripe nimbus
Vers can very well be ur best stat depending on your gear so saying vers isnt the best stat is very misleading. All stats for sin rogue are good and it depends on your gear at which time one is better then another
sturdy python
Can you show me a sin rogue that has vers as their top weight?
hardy anchor
I've been playing Subterfuge/Exsang so long, but MA/TB looks like it's pretty heavily favoured lately.
fleet whale
it would be really hard to get vers as your top stat
hardy anchor
Might have to switch it up a little. I'm fucking up my Exsangs too often.
sturdy python
It's very possible that later in the xpac vers will take over but right now it isn't likely
fleet whale
mastery will probably become best later down the line tbh
it's already getting close now depending on gear
sturdy python
That's usually what happens yes
winter gale
Is 16.5% haste a bit low? I feel like I miss atleast 2.5% or 3 %
sturdy python
Mastery has scaled the best for sin since legion, maybe before idk
paper heron
is there a point where I dont really want to bother with CT anymore? i have 3x EB and wondering if fanning just becomes better
sturdy python
Would need to sim and see Ohandza
paper heron
or i mean if its worth taking pb for bosses
winter gale
Its 1st sim reccomends to aquire after weapon DPS.
fleet whale
then it's your best stat but look at how good crit and mastery are
sturdy python
Then yes, look for more
hardy anchor
Ever since EB came in I felt weird with CT, feels like the energy regen from ruptures makes FoK spam smoother. Also Scent of Blood synergy is great.
sturdy python
You can use top gear to see if you should change your gems or enchants to it
hardy anchor
Even on Reaping I was doing p much the same damage.
empty tide
if you dont use CT , you would have to envenom on aoe for pb procs
since it procs elabore plannig
sturdy python
Just keep in mind haste becomes less valuable the more ruptures you have out in aoe
empty tide
spam fok should be a dps loss withou EP
fleet whale
rupture can proc pb too
empty tide
yes but i mean
winter gale
I know how it goes. I am using alot of old items still just to keep it atleast on 16.5% :D. Mastery jumped on 36%
empty tide
you usually triple rupture then CT
paper heron
yeah i just have 3x EB 2x SS 1x scent. i imagine CT does somewhat more damage but as its useless on bosses i wonder if its still better to take PB
winter gale
I am wearing my bis items from raidbots. everything is up to date but my regen is somehow low, I feel it when I play even
sturdy python
There have been peoppe who claimed with 3x eb rupture enough to have perma energy and spam. Some of them said finish to keep EP up and others said don't. If that is true MP would be the way to go
I'm unaware of any proof any of that is actually proper play though
fleet whale
@ohdanza even if you get up to 20% haste it isn't going to feel much faster than what you have now
sturdy python
It was true before eb was nerfed though so I suppose there could be a point it continued to be true
empty tide
when we get more mastery, MP should be way to go
fleet whale
@winter gale sorry lol
empty tide
then maybe EB spam should be a thing
sturdy python
Sims have shown mp is pretty close nowadays
winter gale
@fleet whale thank you for answers. I will stick to raidbots and equipp as it says
hardy anchor
Imagine if CT procced Venomous Wounds :' )
fleet whale
it wouldn't really be that amazing
sturdy python
Probably would be. Might even make CT worth on 2t
hardy anchor
"Behold, UNLIMITED ENERGY!"
fleet whale
would gain way too much energy than what you would need in aoe
hardy anchor
Full chimp mode
primal gazelle
i did the math once to my own total dungeon logs. filtered by EP Buff, divide by 1.1 to figure how how much damage youve gained via EP.
Now count that number vs your deadly poisons (1.30x with MP), my conclusion was EP > MP even with the 3 eb fok spam that i do
feel free to draw your own conclusions with your own logs tho
sturdy python
Do you just toss out ruptures to keep EP up?
primal gazelle
you really only spam fok AFTER you have 5+ ruptures up, so realistically youre still casting finishers for half-ish of the pulls, EP is still good
sturdy python
Gotcha
paper heron
do you use CT also dayvanie?
primal gazelle
feel free to calculate your own though, or find a freehold log with someone using 3 EB.
Filter by damage done with EP buff active--> Look at the damage, now divide by 1.1 to see damage gained via EP.
Compare that to their poison damage x 1.3, and see which is higher
i use HB with 3 EB
paper heron
dont you need to hold fan to get value out of hb?
primal gazelle
no
you gain the same value over time
10% every 2 secs is same as 50% every 10 secs
difference is burst i suppose but overall damage gained is the same
paper heron
but dont you need to wait to get that first tick?
primal gazelle
its gained outside of combat
paper heron
in my ui it looks like if i spam fok i never get the first tick
but i guess i never checked it to see
primal gazelle
one thing that i do to fully optimize vs killing reaping specifically (for overall padding purposes luuul). trying to keep up 4-5+ ruptures is a waste of time because they have so little hp and will just die before you get your 4th or 5th global up.
I rupture the lost souls with lowest hp first (pay attention to which ones are dying) for the instant 150+ energy back when they die 2-3 secs later. The goal of this is to maximize energy regen and have energy available for every single GCD for fok during the reaping pack
spice surge
@empty tide Thing is though, MP only gives more deadly poison damage. Not envenom nor double dose
hollow stone
Since basically the whole xpac @strange python
Augment runes are consumable items that give agi but go away upon death
strange python
thats odd didnt they say they want higher ilvl to be better and im simming a 400 item higher than a 415 because of a socket..feels bad man
hollow stone
Welcome to sin rogue
hollow stone
A lot of the other classes do follow the "ilvl is generally best" but not us
Oh yea. Sockets are especially valuable for classes (like sin) that have secondaries > agi
fleet whale
agi was the best in the early parts
hollow stone
Im using a 20ilvl lower cloak cause it has a sockey
hollow stone
Lol, or like feral/surv last tier where haste was like double the value of everything else
swift roost
How do I use fan of knives properly? And do I put garotte only on 1 target when outside stealth?
hollow stone
Need more info. Fok in what situation? What traits? Etc
strange python
fan of knives is either to fill points if I have 4/5 or used in pvp to catch out other people in stealth
spice surge
Fan of knives is most definitely NOT used to fill up your fifth combo point
strange python
what then?
swift roost
Specifically when do I start using fan of knives to generate combo points instead of mutilate?
spice surge
Depends on your traits.
2 if you have echoing blade traits
3 otherwise
4 if you have double dose traits
strange python
and for garrote I've seen people try to use it on all targets in raids and not just the one you're focusing on
spice surge
On that amount of targets
idle ember
Any amount of DD?
Tossing ruptures on multiple adds with FoK, you defer to Mut with 1xDD trait if 3 or less?
hollow stone
Yes. Exactly like eleem said
idle ember
Really good to know, was planning to FoK on Champions tonight which I've never done before.
torpid inlet
was wondering for AoE, wouldnt it be more powerfull if we used 3x Echo Blades along with 3x Scent of Blood? 3-4 targets nets about 1K more agility which also fuels to Fan of knives and so echo blades...
real bay
everything else does , fok poisons, pb
fresh coyote
Waste of a titanforge?
swift roost
So I would use garrote out of subterfuge on max targets possible, and then let it fall off and just keep it up on the main target?😅
grim valley
hey guys, is dungeon slice sim relevant for this week ? when aoe is +++
hollow stone
@grim valley not really but its the best we got right now
bleak spoke
3 EB 3 sob makes ST sound unplayable
sand notch
Quick question sorry--do we re-apply dots during haste procs, i.e. GCB/navigation, or do procs affect already applied dots?
bleak spoke
they don't snapshot
they're just affected by the extra stats for the duration of it
for the duration of the extra stats rather
sand notch
Ok ty, I guess it's important to not hop in and out of GCB then
bleak spoke
with an exception though, make sure you cast exsang in the gcb if you're talented into it
cuz that actually does snapshot your haste
though to be entirely honest it's barely even noticeable if you mess it up
zinc zephyr
how exactly does exsanguinate do its damage?
i mouseover the rupture before and after it and it says the same dmg
junior aurora
Does its total damage over a reduced amount of time instead of the 30 or so seconds, so each tick does more
zinc zephyr
that's what i thought. So it doesnt upgrade the visual of the debuff?
junior aurora
Not sure, never checked
ancient copper
autumn stag
wow, premium is so worth it
prisma beacon
:D
tall basalt
does haste decrease the time between bleed ticks?
dark crag
Yes
strange python
ayy 1600 haste
rough halo
just did the achieve run with the guild, blockade was triggering everyone and we said last pull.
giga
tall basalt
god damn
quick ice
No tertiary, 0/10.
strange python
i'd vendor that for 679g
paper heron
is the gigavolt oscillating thing as good as it sims?
and has anyone built any WAs for it or anything?
also a 385 kimbuls is simming higher than a 400 plumage on ST (with galecallers as my other trinket) does that sound right?
odd hatch
It's super good for echoing blades in m+ I'll tell you that
As for plumage, I'm not that surprised it sims lower. If I'm not mistaken, on use trinkets use a gcd. Back to back gcds waste a second of the first trinket you use. As for the razor, your bleeds can proc it. With the downtime a lot of bosses have, it's pretty useful
sturdy python
On use does not use gcd
And kimbuls should be ppm based. It's just a strong trinket
dull wraith
Two on use trinkets generally are not good as they share a cool down before you can use the second one
odd hatch
Huh weird. But regardless, on multiple targets you're getting razor procs not only on your main target, but the rest as well assuming bleeds are up
sturdy python
No that's not how it works
odd hatch
Yeah so same thing then ^
sturdy python
It can proc on othertargets but it won't get more procs doing aoe than st
odd hatch
Didn't say it would
But it procs a decent amount with bleeds up
On jade fire for example, it's wayy better than 2 on use imo
sturdy python
Also the rppm does scale off haste, which assassination tens to have a lot of
Yes, 2 one use is bad
paper heron
so should i trust sims for these trinkets? its 385 kimbul, 370 galecaller, 400 socket reactor, 400 plumage. sims tell me galecallers + reactor for dungeonslice and galecaller plus kimbul for patch
sturdy python
Yes
odd hatch
Usually trust the sim. Only way it'd be wrong is if you have lots of downtime
sturdy python
GCB is better than plumage and two on use trinkets.devalues the worst one a lot
But keep in mind GCB is worse if you can't stay in it
odd hatch
Reactor for m+ for sure
paper heron
i guess the "use" part of reactor isnt really an "on use" then?
fleet whale
it should count as on use
odd hatch
You can for huge packs with eb tho. Sexy dps
fleet whale
well that's news to me, i only thought that cause you get a 30 second cd when you equid it
equip*
paper heron
interesting
im so tired of galecallers its so hard to tell if my pug will let me stand in it or not
onyx rock
Man... so much false information in here.
primal gazelle
How much crit does that trinket give?
primal gazelle
That translate to how much %?
paper heron
uh i dont know how to check that
vivid umbra
hey, does Nothing Personal's dmage stack ?
nimble tartan
ye
vivid umbra
oof
hollow maple
Hey. I've been using Raidbots lately to sim my gear and it tells me to use [425 Lord Waycrest's Signet] 323 Crit 179 Vers vs [370 Loop of Pulsing Veins] 248 Haste 157 Mast. Changing those two drops my haste by 5%, from 21% to 16% and I honestly feel I start energy starving a lot without Blood Lust. Any thoughts?
deft bane
echoing blades vs treacherous covenant for m+/raid?
pulsar fossil
Apologies if this has already been asked in here, but does anyone know if the alch trinket is worth it?
hollow maple
I'm not sure who @round harbor is responding to.
@pulsar fossil It depends on what other trinkets you have and how high you can craft the alch trinket. But I use bloodmallet.com to look at the sim stats for each trinket and traits.
pulsar fossil
Aight thank you
hollow maple
@earnest pilot Do you have any other traits with either of them?
earnest pilot
no
hollow maple
Then I'd go Gutripper if you wanna build for raids and heed my call if you wanna build for mythics.
earnest pilot
alright ty
deft bane
@round harbor if u mean me i really dont knwo :>
round harbor
I'm speaking in general
deft bane
so eb for m+
round harbor
Think about the content. TC is good all the time, eb is good for m+ specifially
TC isn't bad in m+, just not as good as eb
deft bane
ok tyvm
swift prism
Hey do you yall think it's worth the white-hit/envenom downtime to maintain bleeds/poisons on all four Hexers in Temple of Sethraliss last boss? Or should I just focus one
round harbor
On explosive week I have been focusing one and dividing the room up
So each DPS plus the tank can cover explosives
Only after the heart guardian is dead
round harbor
Depends on group comp and cds
If you have vendetta it's worth just plowing one
If you have a priest or aff maybe just let them dot up as you follow tank
round harbor
Crazy thought I know
raw tusk
does master assasin effect garrote?
sturdy python
The ticks of it, yes
raw tusk
Are the ticks effected throught its duration becuase it wsa cast with it up or does it stop when you lose the buff
round harbor
It doesn't snapshot
raw tusk
ok so your better off doing the mutilate, enevenom, mutilate combo with it?
civic palm
or Toxic Blade.
raw tusk
Would TB, Mutilate, Envenom be a better opener?
civic palm
The opener in the guild is the best opener we know of ATM (unless it's hideously out-of-date which I doubt).
hollow maple
Sorry I'm like super late to the chat. I asked earlier about two trinkets that raidbots wanna swap, for single target dps. Rawrzillasor made the statement of using my brain. Like I'm aware that haste is main secondary stat. But I can't figure out if I am missing something or if raidbots is just super bonkers.
The rings are: ilvl 425 ring with 323 crit and 179 vers, that it want me to use, over a 370 ring with 248 haste and 157 mastery. Even worse, it want me to enchant the 425 ring with mastery. I'm literally dropping 5% haste, from 21% to 16%.
I'm just thinking. Since rings doesn't have main stats, ilvl shouldn't be a concern in that sense.
spice surge
Well, even if haste is your best stat (it isnt really, all 3 stats that arent vers are good)
The 425 ring has a total of 502 stats, whereas the 370 one has 405
So thats 100 extra secondary stats, which is a lot
hollow maple
Makes sense, I guess. So it's just me, who feels an energy difference with the 5% drop?
spice surge
Your abilities does more damage to compensate for the lower energy regen
just follow your sims and you'll be fine
ionic dome
Would anyone care to help me out with some Rogue info.? I’m starting up my Rogue and have no clue what each spec excels at the most. ST/MT/AoE/PvP, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
hollow maple
My oppinion and I may be a bit off. But. I'd say Sub is by far the most burst potential ST rogue spec we got. But it also suffers on longer boss fights, like raids. Assass got some serious ST aswell. Outlaw is the rogue spec with the highest on demand aoe. I would say both Sub and Assass aoe is a bit underwhelming. You can make Assass aoe strong, but it requires both azerite traits and a talent change to do so, which honestly borthers me. The azerite part, that is.
For pvp, all three are viable. Assass is the most commonly used at the moment. But they all have their nieche. Like Sub comes with some serious ST burst, as mentioned, but is also armed to teeth with control. Assass has higher spread preassure potential, but also has high ST dmg with vendetta. Outlaw is, well. Outlaw. It's more unpredictable and having blind on a lower cooldown can really ruin the day for a lot of comps.
rustic ether
@ionic dome do some research on your own so you dont get just a few opinions from random people
ionic dome
Well honestly, I wanted opinions from you guys. Plus that is research technically.?
I like getting info from the guys who’ve been playing first hand.
hollow maple
I were just about to say the same. Isn't research on the internet technically just oppinions from strangers aswell?
rustic ether
yes but you dont have any verified information from the discord unless its like @rose perch or other top tier players
rose perch
hollow maple
Does it help if I say I play to 2k?
rustic ether
oh hey its the daddy nerd
ionic dome
I was Rogue wayyyyyy back in the day as Sub and was thinking Sub or Ass. Not too fond of outlaw and the RNG.
And can’t Ass/Sub use the same weapons.? Outlaw I’d have to get a sword right.
hollow maple
I played outlaw in the beginning of BFA because the damage was broken. I have to say I enjoyed it. But RtB seemed to favor me a bit more back then, than it does now. So, I've gone Assass. Simply because RtB and me doesn't seem to get a long anymore. 😦
raw tusk
@civic palm but if it doesnt snap shot wouldnt you get maybe 1 tick of increase crit with ruopture and garrote rather then 3 semi hard hits?
ionic dome
Okay. So know all three specs and play all. Got it.
rustic ether
@ionic dome sub is subpar in most content right now (no pun intended)
rustic ether
outlaw and sin are best ST and AOE for m+ and they both pump in terms of raid
ionic dome
Ass is spreading/ watching dots?
hollow maple
I have to say, no offence. But the whole "research and don't ask people on the discord which is literally dedicated to rogues" borthers me a heck of a lot.
rustic ether
@ionic dome mostly
@hollow maple it was mainly said because you said some things that were heavily opinionated 😃
ionic dome
I ask because I’m only 100, so wanted to level in the proper spec.
hollow maple
Didn't I literally start by saying that?
I could also go like this if you prefer.
Every single sim out there atm shows that Sub is the worst raid spec of any rogue specs atm. Barely anyone at top rank use Sub for pvp.
rustic ether
yes you did but i wanted to make sure he didnt just take the opion to heart and do his own research. didnt want to start an rguement as these class discords are normally very hostile very quick for osme reason
hollow maple
Sin aoe is underwhelming compared to basically all caster classes, DK's and warriors. So don't expect to out dps them on heavy trash pulls either.
ionic dome
Yeah, I’m still gonna research. I’ve been leaning towards Ass kind of for keys anyway.
rustic ether
@ionic dome all three specs have good viability for leveling tbh. sin has dots that you can just apply and go to the next target so you basically chain pull
outlaw has hook and good self healing
ionic dome
And subs sneaky
rustic ether
and sub has 2 shadowsteps with restelath SS being a constant jump
hollow maple
For leveling, I personally love Sub. Personally. It's a personal opinion.
Reason is though.
It heals in stealth and during shadow dance.
rustic ether
outlaw is safest id say
bleak spoke
That’s convenient
hollow maple
All specs are good enough to level with. I just love having 3% hp regen in stealth. shrug
ionic dome
Well, this is just an alt. I main Priest. So by no means am I going to be pushing CE with it and probably won’t raid at all outside of HC on him until super farm kills later down the tier. I do want to push keys and RBG’s tho.
bleak spoke
If you aim to push keys with it I’d watch streams of good rogues
ionic dome
Okay.! Thanks guys.! GL
fast nacelle
👀
idle ember
does FoK activate the opal buff? Never not had Ruby yet..
rustic ether
yes
sturdy python
Yes
idle ember
super, thanks
rustic ether
having to block people in a class discord feelsbadman i wanted loooooveeee
hollow maple
having to tell people you blocked someone must feel even worse. :S
Anyways, I'm off for the night guys. Stay possitive, stay sneaky and don't backstab eachother. 😉
pulsar coral
how do i stop being energy starved on m+ packs so i can spam FoK
i never have enough energy to generate combo points to get bleeds on things 😮
so let's say there's a group of 5 mobby bois in like FH, i garotte x 3 of them to open, and pop a rupture on one then FoK til 5 to CT, then FoK til 5 to rupture up the rest
or do i just keep CT up and do a single target rotation on the main target
strange python
Depends in comp and what traits you have. But ye. If you have CT you want one up fast. 3 ruptures should be enough. And depending in key level or fort/tyr you can even vanish regarrote and just restart the chain
fallen pendant
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
warm ibex
almost cracked the 27k mark boiiis
shy drum
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
spice surge
🤔 27k 🤔
night summit
do i need to have exsang to make shrouded a good azerite trait or just run toxic blade
spice surge
Blademaster trinket? Or is there another way to cheese simdps nowadays?
hearty oriole
Can anyone recommend a good name plate add on for mythic+ and switching between mobs ?
lavish raft
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
paper heron
Although ever since bod came out I’ve had issues with my nameplates stacking off screen where before it would force all the nameplates to stay on my screen regardless of camera position and I’m not sure what happened
tribal marlin
I switch to overlapping nameplate during explosiv weeks :3 Imma try a new add-on today : plater
you can do nameplating stacking and set the gap between nameplate
delicate crater
Is the Engi helm worth it considering the helm that drops of Champions is pretty easy to get?
Does it provide any big advantages with the engi traits?
sturdy python
Not for assassination no
delicate crater
yeah sorry, meant to ask in the pirate channel
sturdy python
Its also probably not better than Champs helm though I havent simmed them yet
Outlaw or Sin
The 415 would probably beast a 400 though
icy ember
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
summer onyx
Should I pool energy before I use toxic blade, and if so, how much
civic palm
enough for 2 Toxic Blades
crystal brook
is 3x double dose + 3x echoing better than 3x double and 3x shrouded in m+?
civic palm
DD not very great for M+
bleak star
I use a 415 engi helm and love it
tribal marlin
same here inge trait not the best but strong enough and defensiv trait is one of the best
tired thistle
So although Double Dose sims Higher for raids and whatnot do you guys still rpefer to use SS for M+?
lost horizon
DD is useless in AoE
So for M+ (where it's like 90% AoE)
You wanna take things like SS
Or EB
That will benefit you more
tired thistle
I thought so thanks for the answer!
whole ginkgo
Does Nothing Personal trait snapshot?
and if so should i modify my toxic blade rotation accordingly? i.e cast toxic, then vendetta?
i guess i need to find a rogues logs and check each tick of nothing personal and see if it amps up after toxic is applied
but i'm sure someones done math
rose perch
i don't believe it snapshots so you do not want to TB before the vendetta
whole ginkgo
tyty
cunning lagoon
is 2x shrouded suffocation a guaranteed 5 cp from stealth on garrote?
rose perch
the combo point component from Shrouded Suffocation does not stack with multiple traits, so you only ever generate 3 combo points with each garrote
round harbor
same
cunning lagoon
ah. thanks
delicate sapphire
should i be using the haste and crit enchantments for my weapons?
rose perch
generally yes, sim yourself to be sure (masterful sometimes correct too)
tribal marlin
@summer onyx You are pooling before using envenom outside of TB/Vendetta window
grizzled jay
Would you guys choose 3xSS 2xEB 1xSoB or 2xSS 3xEB 1xTTK for M+? Be those are the triats availabe to me atm until I can get a SS EB shoulder.
tribal marlin
I'll definitly choose 1st option
raven mica
SoB was probably the 2nd best M+ trait before echo'ing blades was added
so I'd choose the SoB option
grizzled jay
Here's hoping wednesday gives me 415 BiS M+
thin magnet
Shadowstep gives you a good point to get earllier to your target instead to walk the hole way.
buoyant stream
oh ok
also does anyone know if a bonus roll thing works for legacy raid
really want xavious splauders
lost horizon
You can pick up the bonus rolls for legion content in dalaran
ornate meteor
hii when you do opener do you reaply subterfuge ss garote with vanish at 7.2 sec or 5.4 sec? or wait til the duration out
lost horizon
Wait it out
rose perch
yeah you always have to let shrouded garrotes go the full duration before you refresh
both in the opener and future vendettas
delicate basalt
Question, is there a haste threshold where exsanguinate becomes better than toxic blade for ST?
rose perch
there's no specific amount of haste - your traits, other stats, trinkets all interact with it as well. in uldir we realistically got to those levels of haste pretty often with reorigination array but these days you really need almost all of [high haste relative to your other stats, 2-3SS, and galecaller's boon] for exs to sim above tb
ornate meteor
is 24 sec the maximum duration for garote?
so when i do vanish mid fight 2 garote is enough?
rose perch
Yes and yes
warm geode
2sec of max energy before tb or 5cp then tb for higher env with high energy is worth?
rose perch
Max energy is pretty much always wrong - TB at 5 combo points looks like it's actually something we're supposed to do from time to time (from watching the method rogue stream), by contrast
warm geode
the other side would be low energy tb cuz would env then have to tb at 0cp and mid bar ( ik u can proper maneger energy earlyer, but at this point just have 2 choices )
rose perch
Yeah I think the play there is the 5cp TB but I'm not 100% sure - either option is probably close as long as you neither over cap energy nor sit on TB
nimble tartan
real bay
just hit it
vestal wren
this is the TB condition in the apl, it does not consider cp ;)
actions.cds+=/toxic_blade,if=dot.rupture.ticking
(it says, use it if rupture is up on the target)
bleak spoke
I mean it makes more sense to overcap cp than it does to leave it up to rng whether you get all the envenoms in your tb
Cuz if you got up to 5 cp probably means you either garroted at some point or had to mutilate twice
So if you’re approaching the tb timer you won’t have insane energy pooled
long hill
is it better 2 ss and 2 EB or 3 ss and 1 EB for mythic+?
pseudo hamlet
@long hill raidbot has shown me that 3ss+1EB is better. But that's just for mine char. Better to sim yourself. 😃
long hill
In dungeon mode right?
pseudo hamlet
Yup.
bronze topaz
it depends on affixes and different dungeons
tidal jetty
and pulls
bronze topaz
and what you wanto to do. ss is for 3 (with vanish up to 6) targets, EB is pure aoe
worn grove
Sorry, this is a general question, and Crtl+F fails rn, but does anyone know the formula to energy regen affected by haste for assassination
elfin plaza
Opener Vanish should be used as soon as you can pedemic refresh your opening from stealth garrote right? to reduce the time you have have to wait to line up with Vendatta. All assuming you arent TB in this window or saving for add spawns
raw tusk
On large aoe mobs do you guys just rupture a bunch while fanning or do you garrote too
vagrant plinth
I personally put garrotes up on CD and maintain ruptures/CT
hearty venture
!best
prisma monolithBOT
All specs are good. Specific ones shine in specific areas.
Check the following resources for the facts:
Warcraft Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/21#class=Rogue
Raider.io: https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
ornate meteor
hii got galecaller just now, how should i use it on opener? stealth - garote - galecaller - rupture - garote?
spice surge
during vendetta
ornate meteor
so normal opener garote rupture garote vendetta gale toxic?
spice surge
yeah (assuming you have ss)
Otherwise follow the other openers and just place gale together with vendetta
ornate meteor
wont the duration run out if i use on vendetta before i vanish garote again?
yes using ss
hushed maple
I cant think of a scenario, where you would play TB over Exhang, when you have Gale
spice surge
Well, tb almost always sim higher
ornate meteor
its sims high for me
spice surge
Gale is very good regardless of what talent you have
ornate meteor
and im only using 1 ss atm
ornate meteor
well thats the only trait i have xd
hushed maple
well yeah 1xss is kinda a must I think
fiery cradle
ss meta
swift roost
Is assassination considered harder to play optimally than subtlety?
strange python
No
solid nova
No it's probably the easiest of all 3 specs
fiery cradle
only big brains can understand the complexities of muti
strange python
A true intellect
spice surge
depends on what you mean by more difficult or harder
A lot of people make plenty of mistakes while playing assa (me included), but its not a very punishing spec so you dont really lose that much damage from making minor mistakes
void gazelle
Do you know any good multi-dot weakaura?
warm geode
just use some nameplate addon to track up they health bar
like threat plates
in case of raid, just add some buff/debuff track on boss frame
vestal wren
nameplateauras or flyplatebuffs can help you with keeping track of your dots on the nameplate
plush remnant
I've never had exsang sim higher than TD. I have 2 ss rn. Always hear going exsang is better with ss than td. Thoughts?
tender walrus
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
how many targets should you be using globals on applying garrotes
i'm guessing once you get to like 5+ targets you stop wasting globals on it and just fok, rupture and ct?
unless you have a prio target you need to kill fast
Pretty much
fiery cradle
@plush remnant depends on ur stats/trinks, with high haste/galecallers exsang will usually sim higher with ss
plush remnant
I have gale and so much haste that mastery now is the highest stat for me. Exsang still gets beaten out. Is this just a matter of single target sim vs multi?
vapid delta
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
tender walrus
!links
i used to have an addon where i click on a mob/boss and it tells me what i have to do as a rogue against this boss in a small window
anyone know what this addon s called?
vestal wren
herorotation
tender walrus
no as in the mechanics of the boss
also do you recommend this herorotation? like how efficient is it?
vestal wren
its basically the apl for simc, so its good but does not consider boss mechanics/strategy
for boss mechanics i assume you mean dbm or bigwigs
tender walrus
neh its just a small window which opened on the side which said for example BL on pull or BL 10%, dodge x, take buff y when z happens
karmic ingot
Does the addon from questionably epic have something like that? Maybe it’s what you’re looking for.
tender walrus
what s the name of this addon?
woeful oriole
I've been shooting for trying to keep elaborate planning up, pooling energy so I can do envenoms inside of the elaborates. Is it better to worry less about that and more about just keeping envenom up?
karmic ingot
Never mind, it looks like it’s just for M+.
@woeful oriole are you using key abilities on cooldown, keeping DoTs up, not capping energy, and not overcapping combo points? If so, you’re probably fine and the rest of that stuff doesn’t matter much.
woeful oriole
Yea Taughror. I parse well... I'm just lookin' to maximize now.
Well I say I parse well... I'm in the 60% which is just slightly above average.
karmic ingot
On most fights, I find that my attention goes to mechanics before the minor optimizations in your rotation. The one thing do try to focus on is not mutilating at low energy when I’m waiting on other stuff.
Like if I have 5 seconds until TB is off CD, and I’m at low CP, I could mutilate now, or wait 5 seconds for energy and get extra mutilates inside the TB window for more DPS from DD and DP procs.
Also, maximizing uptime of DoTs, CD usage, etc should get you into 80% parses or higher unless your gear is trash. 60% is good, and you’ll likely be in that range during progression on a lot of fights, but if a fight is on farm, 60% means you have room for improvement.
spice surge
If you link logs we can help you a lot more
woeful oriole
On farm stuff I'm a lot better.
That's me for heroic. (by ilvl)
heroic champs
prisma pond
clearly it's the mog
woeful oriole
lol
prisma pond
ill dig a bit more I guess. A quick note to add about being comfy with mechanics AND rotation
cerulean walrus
There you will find the answers you seek
prisma pond
something that helped me was literally watching netflix shows while beating on a dummy for a few hours. To to the point I could execute a near perfect "rotation" without looking at the screen, I dont think ive looked at my actual cast bars in months
outside of maybe talent nerfs or something
woeful oriole
kk
prisma pond
WA can help too if you struggle with uptimes on dots
spice surge
@woeful oriole Looking at your logs you seem to not use TB nearly enough, frequently missing casts of it because you are holding it for too long
Your opener isnt the best, check the guide in the pins for the proper opener
And you really should have close to a 100% uptime on garrote and rupture. 80% and 90% uptime means you lose a lot of energy regen and damage
ebon heron
Would you guys change this https://www.wowhead.com/item=165833/vestments-of-indomitable-will&bonus=4823:1522&azerite-powers=4 for this https://www.wowhead.com/item=159298/venture-co-plenipotentiary-vest&bonus=1587:4819 (400 for 415) even if that means losing the only one SS trait? The 415 sims better but I'm not convinced on that one
strange python
When running Master Assassin, is it better to TB before or after vanish?
weak isle
before
spice surge
It doesnt really matter
cobalt basalt
can someone explain pls how DD is work?
spice surge
When you mutilate and apply poisons with both of the hits it procs
hollow stone
Mut hits with both daggers. Both daggers have an independent poison proc chance. If both proc, dd procs. So if you do it in an env window, with increased poison proc chance, you are likely to get more dd
cobalt basalt
how much haste need for dd build?
chilly hazel
anyone remember the opener for nightstalker?
garrote, mutilate, rupture, mutilate till 4-5 CP, vanish, Rupture?
lone junco
@cobalt basalt haste is an energy component and is independant of DD or other specs. More haste is better.
haste is garbage in cleave when you can maintain enough ruptures for Energy cap. until then haste is good.
outer ruin
So for KR, I'm not sure if I should go my ST setup, or my AoE M+ setup. I have a x3 SS, x3 EB build, and a x3DD, 2xTTK, 1xNP build
only doing +10's
fresh nexus
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
idle ember
wow EB is fun... I wish I had more pieces with it
lone junco
once your crit is high, it is nice.
river zinc
if I'm simming Masterful nav or Deadly/quick nav..should I trust the sim?
lone junco
depends on cleave or st
river zinc
ST
river zinc
it's .3
lone junco
quick is for st. deadly and mastery are cleave.
post the sim if you are concerned something looks weird, but i would expect Haste/crit
strange python
how do we play with 3x eb in m+, say if there's a big pull for example start of freehold all the mobs. should i just rupture enough mobs so i can spam fok without missing a global or should i be putting rupture up on everything i can
i'm not sure what does more dmg in general
feelsgood to play in pleb guild
lone junco
@strange python once your E is capped, you can fok and env for bombs.
if you play scent you rupture as many as possible forever.
strange python
@lone junco are you running pb over ct atm?
lone junco
depends on trash duration to me. If I have a monster cleave in group, and stuff doesnt last over say 10 sec. I prefer PB tbh.
strange python
so what's the rotation with CT
still evenom
or just more fok?
i guess more fok?
river zinc
you should just outlaw for M+ honestly lol