assassination

[hollow stone]

/targetexist dad /cast thistbh

[rose perch]

thank u

[hollow stone]

:p

[lost horizon]

I mean outlaw does lose a bit on pure ST taking DS

[ruby idol]

What

[rose perch]

not as much as sin loses by dropping good ST traits for good AoE ones

which outlaw does not have to do at all

[lost horizon]

That's a good point

[ruby idol]

It doesnt lose as much as having to slot multiple eb traits to be relevant

[hollow stone]

That tbh. Other than wits

[rose perch]

outlaw is just 5/6 bis all situations, 1/6 super bis aoe not bad st

[velvet forge]

nerf outlaw then, leave sin alone, take back what i said, assn is horrible

[lost horizon]

My azerite is fucked so I haven't gotten to mess with it enough

[junior aurora]

just give sub shuriken combo back

make em all good

[hollow stone]

Nah. Dont nerf OL. The OL mains deserve this

[ruby idol]

22k galavazt 19 tyranical. Outlaw boss dmg stinks

[real bay]

both are horrible kappa

[sturdy python]

Outlaw will get nerfed, it never fails to when it's actually good

[lost horizon]

Sin still seems worth in like KR

[hollow stone]

Inb4 blizz removes ruthless precision and caps buffs to 4 max

Lolol

[lost horizon]

But I'm definitely gonna have to run outlaw with it's current output

[prisma sail]

hi peeps, H Jadefire Masters as sin.. switch to mage for bleeds, etc, or stay monk for highest damage?

[lost horizon]

@prisma sail yeah

Keep bleeds up on both

[hollow stone]

@prisma sail dot em up baby

[rose perch]

bleed both for sure

[lost horizon]

Monk priority

[junior aurora]

pad those meters

if you can put a bleed on something do it

[sturdy python]

The other argument people make is outlaw is pad damage. Also doesn't really hold water anymore

[hollow stone]

Its not a pad. All the damage is relevant

[lost horizon]

Pad dmg in M+

Is just damage

[velvet forge]

^

[lost horizon]

No more sub memes for shuricombo

[junior aurora]

i go by the mantra of if i can put a bleed on it i will, even if its got 99% invulnerability because of the energy regen

[lost horizon]

Now it's outlaw memes for wits stacks

[rose perch]

it's true that not all damage is created equal but yeah outlaw literally beats other great dps by like 20-30%

[hollow stone]

Does anyone even know what a frost mage is anymore?

[lost horizon]

The thing is like with DS the sustain is actually really good for outlaw

It's not just burst like DH

[forest marsh]

What’s a frost mage

[sturdy python]

There can be pad on m+. For instance the slimes in shrine dying in 15s won't make much of a difference versus 5s since the elites are what takes time

Outlaw blasts the elites hard too though

[prisma sail]

thx

[lost horizon]

It's still justdmg to be done

Unless you're pulling shit like that solo and burning cooldowns on it

There's no difference

[hollow stone]

Id disagree with the opinion that because they need to die and it costs just 1gcd for ol to set up them dying while still maintaining prio, its not a pad. Especially if you consider group dmg vs individual player dmg

But thats opinion

We all got one

[terse rune]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

[sturdy python]

Let's put it this way then. Sin rogue and dh DPS a pack. There is two huge health mobs and tons of non elite low health. The sin rogue blows CPS on CT and ruptures on the non wlites because it's better overall damage.

That's pad, the dh would kill the non elires doin normal rotation on the big health

So the sin is making the dungeon take longer essentially by not pumping focus damage

Doesn't apply to outlaw necessarily

[hollow stone]

Yes. Agreed. But my take on it was that the OL was basically the DH in your example

[lost horizon]

Someone's gotta AoE it

[sturdy python]

Yeah of course, it's not relevant to outlaw at all because of bf and wits

No they don't. The low health mobs die to normal cleave

Is my point

[hollow stone]

Right. But if somebody has active aoe and somebody has natural aoe, thats wasted potential group dmg; again, imo

[lost horizon]

Not all specs have normal cleave

Outlaw's gotta trigger bf (mostly cause ST increase)

[sturdy python]

I didn't say they did

[lost horizon]

And it's not exactly the end of the world to toss a CT as sin

[median sonnet]

Mmm, can anyone give a rough estimate how big difference there's between Toxic Blade or Exsang in raid/M+ situations? I know simming tells best, but currently just setting up my Sin gear and az traits

[sturdy python]

My point was there is padding in m+

It's just not as relevant as often

[lost horizon]

End of the day it's still damage to be done, just don't sink resources into easy mobs

[junior aurora]

depends on if you are using SS / subt or not ryazan

[rose perch]

@median sonnet usually tb is ahead by a % or two in raid, and exs is a nice one for M+ because it's good with your shrouded garrotes and it doesn't require you to keep attacking the target like TB does to get full value

[median sonnet]

Ok, so in short you could say TB for raids and Exsang for M+? :)

Or at least work from that

[rose perch]

yes with the caveat that sim yourself for raids

and exs for M+ if you have shrouded/subterfuge

[zenith gust]

i'm getting mastery as my more valuable stat, is that normal?

[hollow stone]

Yea. Thats a pretty good high level answer; tb is for st and exsang is for m+. Of course there is crossover but thats a good general way to think about it; traits are the big factor tho

@zenith gust yes depending on your weights and build

[median sonnet]

Yup, thank you for replies

[lost sentinel]

I think the best generalization is TB is stuck on ST more than exsang, so just sim and frankly if both are equal I'd go with exsang because you don't get stuck on a ST

[junior aurora]

unless you run MA

then its TB

[lone junco]

@hollow stone tldr top 3 outlaw traits for M+. DS, then ? ?

[sturdy python]

1 wits, ace, tc

[lone junco]

I should enjoy memes while they are strong.

[median sonnet]

I guess Shrouded for ST always requires EX? At least if you look at the trait rankings in HD

[rose perch]

no it definitely does not

TB sims better than ExS for me in ST

[median sonnet]

Ok, when in doubt, sim it :P

[sturdy python]

Herodamage just shows the talents that each trait Sims best with. Once you throw in other traits/combinations and your own stats that can change

[lone junco]

@sturdy python so snake eyes is dead then?

im being lazy i know

[sturdy python]

Indeed, very dead

[pastel roost]

Hey guys , was just wondering if it's worth losing ilvl to gain good traits for M+ ? I'm maily a raider. I have 415 spaulder with SS and blighborn. Is replacing them with a 385 spaulder woth EB worth ?

[royal lantern]

deepens on the week

[sturdy python]

Would depend on the situation. EB scales super well in very large groups and high crit

That's a big ilvl Gap though and SS isn't bad at all

[strange python]

What something Sims the same DPS but is major different in statweights.... What sim do I got for? I know it is not suppose to be a difference, but we all know it is.

[pastel roost]

Ok, i'v been doing quite well in M+ this week, large group reaping with CT and 1 EB trait is actualy quite nice

[lone junco]

oh shit, i have 3DS 385

werps

[hollow stone]

@lone junco yea. Ideally 3ds, 1 wits, 1 ace, 1 blitz

[lone junco]

only M+.

[hollow stone]

Tc is good too but sometimes sucks for m+

Yea. M+

[lone junco]

its gotta beat my 3ss sin though.

[hollow stone]

I was lighting it up my dude

But overall dps over the course of the dungeon was equivalent

[lone junco]

380 sword from WQ tbh.

I should change lootspec for swords

in raid.

ive been too worried about daggers

[hollow stone]

Approx 22-24k sin, 23-26k OL

[pastel roost]

Is Outlaw still King in M+ ( i'm thinking about teeming/fortified next week) even with Assa Echoing blades ?

[hollow stone]

Thats what i do

[lone junco]

nice. my slice sim comes in at 22k for sin, ill check outlaw now.

[hollow stone]

My sin peaked like 80k approx on reaping packs, my highest OL peak was 160k (with 5 buffs on reaping)

So, you decide :p

[neon thunder]

Ima try both outlaw and sin next week for keys

[pastel roost]

With thoses numbers i'll stay assassination i guess /s

[hollow stone]

I think during fort weeks, OL will blow sin out of the water

But tbd

[dark crag]

Sin needs ebs, outlaw just 1 wits

[pastel roost]

I know we're in assassination room, but while i have someone who does M+ in outlaw, what kind of buff you want in M+ ? Also do you even reroll in aoe situations ?

[neon thunder]

Sin may seem better for longer packs, I feel outlaw bursts aoes when as sin is more sustained if adds live long enough. But only can confirm once I try

And sub is like dead. Lel

[pastel roost]

Press F for sub

[dark crag]

F

[hollow stone]

So. Depends on traits. If you have ds and/or ace, you will use bte on cd. You will reroll any 1 buff other than ruthless precision. You want to avoid rtb within bf because its generally a loss

So ill either roll between pulls or between bfs

[pastel roost]

alright

[hollow stone]

Theres better OL rogues than me in the OL channel tho, if im being honest

[pastel roost]

Thanks i'll go check on the OL channel a bit later, just to finish is there a clear cut lvl 100 talent for M+ ?

[hollow stone]

Yes. But only if you have wits

[pastel roost]

i have it

[hollow stone]

If you have wits, you go dancing steel

[pastel roost]

ok then , thanks

[hollow stone]

Np. Gl. Enjoy

Enjoy beating dhs on trash >:D

[plain thistle]

fuck me, he got it in front of me 😦

[vestal wren]

gz

[plain thistle]

I got a dead-eye spyglass 405 at least 😦

[verbal mantle]

sad

[karmic ingot]

I haven’t really tried Outlaw in season 2 yet, but my sin damage is bonkers with 3x EB, 2x SS, 1x SoB.

100k DPS or so peak on reaping packs and 30k overall DPS in a ML 13 run felt pretty good.

[solid nova]

I've seen 300k+ outlaw peak dps 😂

[karmic ingot]

I believe it.

[lone junco]

60k ds is nice

finished a boss at 20k. first time outlaw since launch.

not bad

[latent pebble]

What’s ideal time for GCB in opener, just got trinket yesterday, running TB and have 1 SS currently

[lost sentinel]

should be lined up with TB pretty much

[real bay]

well it lines up perfect with vendetta or any 2min cd, every other cast

[sand otter]

top rogue is using master poisoner... has my time come

[spice surge]

For what

[sand otter]

i dont know im being dumb

really trying to see what im doing wrong in raid , i can burst damage but sustaining what the sim says is proving very hard

[lone junco]

wq loot. ive never seen this one.

[sand otter]

doing what i can so i dont get benched

[lone junco]

at least it doesnt have a floor buff

i wonder if that will overlap with gcb

they do not overlap. boo.

I bet they fixed juju too

[subtle imp]

can anyone explain to me how EB works? the tooltip doesn't make too much sense to me. "for each of the first 5 critical strikes" is there an internal CD after critting 5 times or something

or up to 5 crits in one fok

[sand otter]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rbkqKu3jeFJwPR2iai3Vww

mind if i get some advice from everyone here?

is it normal for dps to be at 10k average at the end of a fight like King in the new raid?

[lone junco]

@subtle imp when you fok it will echo up to 5 crits.

so if you were 100% crit in a pack of 10, fok crits 10 times, but EB goes off 5 times.

[subtle imp]

alright thanks

[lone junco]

and also buffs all fok white

it really requires big pulls and high crit.

[subtle imp]

so if i only had the choice atm between SoB and EB i should probably go SoB if i do both high m+ and raid

[plain jacinth]

If you never plan to switch trait, sob is better but keep in mind trait Respec cost goes down every day now, so you should be able to Respec more easily now

Like if you don't raid on the weekend, you can switch your traits to m+ traits before the weekend, then switch back after

[rustic ether]

where do i got for guidl recruitment? my guild is straight up dead

[spice surge]

wowprogress

[desert vault]

I just got that trinket today as well Noobe. Didnt sim very well.

Back to the sos and fh grind ...

[spare nacelle]

@sand otter not really but you don't have traits, neck ilvl and basic enchants and not great trinkets

[craggy briar]

Anyone else started to sim haste highest for M+?

[lone junco]

Slice may want you to have some if you dont have gcb

there are st bosses in there.

[craggy briar]

Its for hectic add cleave

[stable pine]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[sand otter]

ty all, im grinding out azerite now and ill work on some better trinkets hopefully

[stable pine]

Whats the opener for MA? Mut, gar, rap,vend, vanish,tb, mut, env?

[lilac lily]

garrote > mut > rupture

but I doubt it changes much

unless you have SS

[stable pine]

no ss

[solid nova]

@stable pine Garrote Mutilate Rupture Vendetta Vanish/TB Mutilate Envenom and then normal rotation

[stable pine]

@solid nova cheers

[hushed maple]

Hey guys, I a struggling a little atm. I don't know, if Energy pooling realy makes no difference to button smashing. I smash my Multilate, as soon as I get my 55 Energy...should I pool to get a nice fluid Envenom out or keep on smashing?

And is it just me, or does raidbots not have a pawn input anymore? *
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5A81CaLYZMpV4qx9YEhnuT

[vast forum]

sim stat weights instead of quick sim

if u want pawn input

but pawn is generally not recommended

[hushed maple]

Why not?

its a mathematical calculator for stats

if pawn istn good, nothing is tbh

[weak creek]

You'd have to resim and put it into pawn Everytime you put on a new piece of gear

[lone junco]

thats fine.

but pawn doesnt use Azerite

or trinkets

i have plenty of items that show 1% upgrade in pawn that are dps losses in a sim.

[hushed maple]

well you have bloodmallet.com then

^^

for Azerite

And btw I sim every damn Gear

cause I supported raidbots on Patreon I skip the Queue

[dark crag]

Pawn is there for the quick glimpse of upgrades

The only thing to really worry about with sims are rings and trinket

[strange python]

Why is my Vers rings simming better than my other rings -.- isn't vers suppose to be bad? 😮

[lone junco]

@strange python ilvl prob + socket.

[strange python]

Not really

[dark crag]

Unexplainable circumstances

[dark crag]

Give me that murky ring

[strange python]

Well the Jade and Seasl sims best together, Oh well I guess

[sand otter]

o look garbage for me

blizzard has it out for me i swear

[hushed maple]

When is r.io actually going to get Season 2 update?

I am sick of peope looking for season 1 groups

[pale agate]

The site already separates the scores

[hushed maple]

the addon doesnt, tho

still shows season 1

[pale agate]

Not the addon though, I imagine they’re waiting until people have a chance to get their s2 caught up

Yeah they’ve just added a (*) next to the score to notify that it’s a season 1 score

[plain thistle]

nah, they show the highest score, if you have more score on season1 than in season2, it will show S1

[harsh pebble]

is it worth to cast TB and waste the combo point if you already have 5 combo points when TB comes of CD?

[solid nova]

Yes

[harsh pebble]

thanks

[amber talon]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[earnest token]

You want to pool some energy before TB comes off cd right?

[fading wigeon]

Yes. You have to do prep work. Make sure dots refreshed , energy pooled etc

You want to get min two envenoms in a TB window

@earnest token

[earnest token]

Ty

[sand otter]

i made the mistake of keeping a best in slot list while raiding Uldir

before i found this discord i just ran off icy veins

no wonder im at the bottom haha

[strange python]

Anyone know of a good WA for rotation/notifications?

[rustic ether]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[rustic ether]

any of those areawesome

@strange python

[strange python]

TY!

[vernal walrus]

why blood mallet says that Treacherous Covenant is bis trait and DD too, but i see in logs that most of rogues are going with 2-3 ss

?¿?¿

i cant understand that

blood mallet or hero damage

[royal lantern]

well, most people dont have the traits yet probably plays a part for that

[round harbor]

Some fights you can get benefit from ss

[compact raven]

you azurite traits scale off of versatility so good traits want versatility to give better DPS

[royal lantern]

everything scales with vers....thats the howl point of the stat

vers=you are slightly better at everything

[spice surge]

Good traits also scale with mastery and haste

and crit

so its 🤷

[dark crag]

Is the engi hat ok for assa st?

[royal lantern]

yeha, its ok

actually quite good for pvp i think? people in the pvp channel probably know that better

[distant hinge]

waht gems we get on opeleunce?

opal?

[bleak star]

Is there any cap to haste where it falls off?

[sacred citrus]

What enchant do you guys use on your offhand?

[stone fable]

for tyranical week, yall run more single target talents, or still mix and match a bit with aoe?

[rustic ether]

holy shit only questions

alright rapid fire time

@distant hinge opal/ermerald. opal is easier

@bleak star there is never a cap to a stat, only a point in which other stats would benefit you more.

@sacred citrus i use deadly navigation because its one of my two simmed best stats, sim yourself and find your two biggest stat weights

[sacred citrus]

CANT USE TWO OF THE SAME ONES

oops caps

[rustic ether]

@stone fable if you're doing any m+ above a 10, almost always aoe, though your comp might be heavy on aoe and you need more st, always look at your comp

@sacred citrus you shouldnt use two of the same ones as you will get to a point where the enchant is at max stacks and doing nothing

you can have two enchants both running at the same times giving you max crit AND mastery/haste/vers

but if you have double crit, it WILL get you to max crit stacks faster (i believe) but its not worth it in the long run

whew

TIME

[bleak star]

@rustic ether I meant is there a point when haste will fall off? I’m sitting at almost 20%

[onyx rock]

Generally, no. But when that point comes, then your statsim in Raidbots will tell you that.

For me, Mastery has had a higher value than Haste when I was at over 33%. That was in Uldir including the buff.

But that is very individual like everything.

@bleak star

[rustic ether]

@brave marsh haste is an extremely good stat but it needs good crit and mastery to do well. with 100% haste and no crit or mastery your bleeds and poisons wont do anything. theres not an exact number i can give you where i can confidently say "X% haste is when crit/mastery/vers will take over haste"

[violet dock]

We still go Haste - Crit right ? stats weights complete off

[rustic ether]

@violet dock for single target?

[violet dock]

Yea

[rustic ether]

yes generally the best sims will have a high haste with crit coming in second

but sim yourself before adhering to that as you might have 25% haste and no mastery! gotta have a balanced diet ❤

[violet dock]

Yea ive done multiple times ofc but it's not looking how it should look.

[rustic ether]

feel free to link and let this garbage fire inspect ya 😛

your biggest problem is that scent trait

[violet dock]

I need to make a new sim with some other items i'll do it in a sec

[rustic ether]

its a very easy trait to use on st but its basically only a few % increase on st

[violet dock]

But apprently my "best gear" is with 18% crit??

[rustic ether]

its not unheard of to have a high haste high mastery build

mastery isnt bad its normally pretty damn close to crit and crit is only a bit lower than haste generally

[zenith gust]

when i simmed today i got like 25% crit, 14% haste and 39% mastery as my best gear..... which felt wierd af . i feel i should have more haste and less mastery but... oh well.... a week ago i was like 20% haste, 22% crit, and much lower mastery....

[rustic ether]

people assume haste is the end all be all stat but honestly its not like haste is twice the strength of any other stat

100% is stronger than most stats but if you have gear thats just higher ilvl but statted toward mastery/crit or vers its not outlandish for raidbots to throw out some haste lol

[zenith gust]

i think it also depends on the items you get... like if you get high item level rings with a lot of mastery, maybe it has vore value, because the increase in mastery is much more than the haste you could provide with my other rings... just guessing

yeah that what i thought

[rustic ether]

think of it like this: with high haste and low mastery youre hitting the mob alot of times for a small amount. with hist mastery and low haste youre hitting the mob like a truck but at a slower rate

but at the end of the 5 minute sim, you might be hitting for the overall same amount

[zenith gust]

yeah, feels worse playing with lesse haste though

like i really notice going fom 20% haste to 14%

[rustic ether]

yeah playing a fast playstyle and then losing 200 haste from a ring or something feels terrible but if it sims better, just gotta get used to it

[zenith gust]

yeah i guess

[stable pine]

man MA feelsbad man

[violet dock]

But don't you want normally more crit?

[quick ice]

nah, 23% is fine

[violet dock]

Ment haste 😄

Yea but isn't the 19% crit bit to low?

[drifting cloud]

you sim 23k and you care about a few hundred crit

[violet dock]

No about the stats i actually need

[rustic ether]

@violet dock those stats are awesome, you're right in that i bet crit is higher up on your priority list

[scarlet hornet]

Did they ever fix the SS bug?

[drifting cloud]

yeah months ago

like october or something

[scarlet hornet]

okay thanks!

[stoic violet]

Quick question, if vers is at the bottom of typical sin rogue stat priority, why is Lustrous Golden Plumage so high up on the sim list?

[honest needle]

is it worth running 3 ss traits if i can ?

is mss still strong for m+ for stacking all 3

also alot of these fights are cleave so stacking 3 ss wouldnt be bad right

for raid

[rose perch]

@stoic violet so much of our dmg comes from our vendetta windows, which plumage lines up perfectly with, so a bunch of a bad stat during vendetta is better than the same amount of a better stat divided over the whole fight

@honest needle yes any number of SS traits is great for M+, in raids it's very good for multi-target fights, a little behind but still competitive on pure single target

[lone junco]

@rustic ether haste for sin is not about stabbing fast. It is raw energy gain. more haste more energy.

[polar forge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xgRgnDiuWcs33e3yeZGTx2 lol

it wants me to use both

GCB and plumage

looking for some input on how to use them 😃

[little osprey]

Today Invocation of Yul'on is not buffed with Toxic Blade for me.

[rose perch]

ya but they put each other on CD is what they mean probably @strange python

[little osprey]

With TB buff, it does exactly the dmg described.

[rose perch]

@polar forge not 100% sure but I'd guess
0:00 plumage, vendetta
0:20 vanish
0:30 GCB
1:30 GCB
2:20 plumage, vendetta, vanish
2:50 GCB
3:50 GCB
4:20 plumage, vendetta, vanish

[little osprey]

I swear to god I remember seeing 55k Yulons Fury. It always does 21810 base now. Regardless of buffs

[torn junco]

@little osprey maybe you had another damage buff or boss a debuff because as far as i know tb buff is a whitelist same as vendetta and wont boost the damage of any trinket

[little osprey]

you must be right..

[nimble tartan]

im using a yulons now 😃

[jaunty crystal]

damn 23k.

[polar forge]

omg i just got a 400 dice too LOL

@rose perch looks good thanks. not as hard to fit them in as i thought. just have them both macro to vend and its good

[rose perch]

oh do they not put each other on CD?

then yeah just blast off seperately

[polar forge]

its 30 seconds after u use one that u need to wait

[visual quartz]

seems like all on use trinks put other on use trinks on cd, regarless of given stat/bonus

[polar forge]

400 socket dice sims higher

than the GCB

[strange python]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange echo]

Im running 2x DD 1x TC and 1x NP and 1 x B Infusion does anyone run something similar and feel like your ramp up is very slow

[stable pine]

Yes

[strange echo]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/stormreaver/pipebombs#difficulty=3

[stable pine]

I don’t know MA just doesn’t feel good

[strange echo]

Copy of my logs from our normal alt run I just felt like I was climbing so much faster when I was running with heroic Opulence crown

[quick ice]

changed from SS to MA? or lost some SS?

[stable pine]

Change from sub SS to MA with no SS

Just finished my first run with the change and it felt very slow with the ramp up

[quick ice]

its a very different feeling

[strange echo]

I lost an SS for 1 DD and a TC

[rose perch]

ya it feels worse and opens less hard for sure, more dps though generally

[quick ice]

its less about the big opener with DD/TC/MA

and more about remaining consistently high throughout

[strange echo]

@rose perch love your vids 1st bud secondly I know the opener changes without running an SS trait is the opener on ravenholdt solid or should i be running something different

[rose perch]

So for Master assassin with no SS you can also consider vanish/toxic blade -> mutilate --> envenom to avoid the rng of vanish/envenom -> mutilate --> envenom

i think it's a little better until you're at or close to 100% crit in MA

[strange echo]

So I'm not running master assassin should I be?

[rose perch]

oh ok if you're not running MA i like all the other openers they have on there i think

[strange echo]

Yea i almost always run subterfuge

[rose perch]

ya then ravenholdt good imo

[strange echo]

But maybe without an SS trait MA might pull ahead

[rose perch]

Ya maybe on ST but probably not by all that much even then

[strange echo]

Running a quick sim now

0.1% difference 21,968 with MA 21,951 with sub 5 min patchwerk

[autumn night]

so how do you use Master Assassin?

nvm i scrolled up

[sinful lotus]

Hello everyone, what's the correct rotation for lining up your Vend + TB + Vanish the second time around? Do you Vend >> Vanish>>>GRG (I have SS)>>TB>> ENV? Or do you Vanish before Vendetta? Also, is it worth using your second pot when you're lining up all of these CD's for the 2nd time?

Or is that too early to use a 2nd pot? I guess I'm always confused as to when I should use my 2nd pot. Always afraid boss will die before, or I'll miss out on a Lust window (if guild doesn't lust at pull), or CD's won't line up, etc...

[real bay]

you don't always garrote rupture garrote , that's just the opener

for me it's usually vanish>garrote garrote>vendetta>TB>Envenom

assuming rupture has plenty of time left and not in pandemic window

[rose perch]

yeah vanish> garrote envenom garrote>vendetta>tb>envenom also a good sequence

coming in with 1-2 cp that is

it's not the end of the world to vendetta vanish garrote garrote either

little less efficient but nbd

[real bay]

yeah, just depends what cp you're at

[rose perch]

2nd pot in cooldowns is better than in lust

but ideally should be in cooldowns during lust

[obsidian mountain]

wowhead says: Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Vanish
Toxic Blade

ravenholdt:
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Vanish
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom

what is right? oO

[rose perch]

the wowhead plan is generally better imo - the ravenholdt one has the problem where your mutilate in the vanish can not crit and you'll be in trouble. once you have close to 100% crit in MA then maybe ravenholdt better

[crisp shard]

What crit %would you say that change at?

[rose perch]

if i had to guess i'd say maybe 90? so 40 outside MA? idk i have not done any sims here just feelycrafting

because over a certain point the wowhead way also overcaps CP

if all possible crits happen

so there definitely is a breakpoint i think

i just don't really know where

[quick ice]

I believe the Wowhead guide also follows current APL logic, given it's written by Mystler.

[smoky fiber]

whats the benefit over going the other opening? i've been doing the ravenholdt opening prob a little higher on crit than most bc of playing outlaw before this but its felt pretty good overall, although i can see what you mean about not critting and getting the instant finisher it can feel bad

[median tiger]

i got an on use haste trinket

i guess its pretty good for assa

[rose perch]

@smoky fiber
Vanish>TB>Mut>Env is an
almost guaranteed 4-5cp envenom in window plus a TB in window
Vanish>Env>Mut>Env is one 4-5cp envenom in window and a reasonably good chance of another one but a much larger risk of a bad outcome.

[smoky fiber]

so the benefit is TB critting then as well, more consistency?

[rose perch]

yeah the wowhead one is +consistency for sure

[nimble tartan]

yeah ive found the vanish tb env one to be nicer for the opener but i still like to default to the tb vanish 4-5 cp env outside of it

[shy axle]

but how to use vanish with MA during the fight. Line it up with TB? Or just "Vanish at 4+ cp, env - mut - env"?

[smoky fiber]

pretty sure you just line all vanish up with vendetta, although im pretty new to sin i've had pretty good results

and ive just been doing what omr said

[shy axle]

yeah, i`m wondering about the "rotation" inside the master assas window. I think it should be get 4+ cp /(TB)- van - env - mut - env

[manic quartz]

Does mastery increase "nothing personal" trait dmg?

[quick ice]

I believe so yes

[manic quartz]

thanks! i happen to got way too mastery heavy gear so ill try it

[rose sapphire]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7q5fb7WXcztmv2BquaFHpY

MA to go

[zenith plank]

There is so many opinions on what is better

I’ve been using the opener on ravenholdt

Seems to be alright

But I have 2 SS traits

By MA you mean master assassin right ?

[strange python]

right

[rose sapphire]

Yes

[zenith plank]

I’m still learning how to do all the neat little tricks for assassination

I just feel like I’m not consistent enough

I get confused sometimes on the priority of it all

I’m pulling 75-95 parses all the time

But I still hear all sorts of different shit

shrugs

[strange python]

It kinda is too much to write out in a guide. Depends on traits, talents, energy and all that, so you have to learn what each spell does. Then you can learn when to use what

[zenith plank]

Fair enough

I try to line stuff up the best I can

Like getting as many subterfuge garrotes on multi dot stuff

And all that jazz

[buoyant coyote]

Wtf

I had picked hidden blades my misstakes

Would pb be better for pushing logs ?

[strange python]

on jaina can you drop chilling stacks with cloak?

[solid nova]

No

[strange python]

k

how come method run a few on this boss

what do you think we excel at on this?

[inner pecan]

single target dps

rogue is one of the highest ST dps in the game rn

[dapper moat]

Guys how do you use the high tinker amulet as it can not be lined exacly same time when popping vendetta. You just use it on cd when 6 stacks or do u guys just ignore it and not activate it at all? 🤔

[strange python]

@inner pecan thought it'd be that but wanted to check 😛

[fringe estuary]

wtf happened. When did warrior tanks become good again??

[inner pecan]

8.1

but they were always underrated even before that

[nimble tartan]

@dapper moat use at last possible moment of 6 buff to extend

[true gyro]

Why at the Last possible moment? Was quite sure it Will stay at 6 for max duration regardless when u stop it.

I tried stopping it when it had been to 6 stacks for 1sec. It stayed there for the 6s during stop and then 5 more seconds after that

[desert kelp]

!Azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[obtuse geode]

With 3x Double Dose, should I be pooling energy before TB is up to make use of every single global during the buff?

[trim haven]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[spice surge]

@obtuse geode Dont delay tb, if you can pool beforehand because you have nothing to refresh great

But dont delay tb

[dusky tiger]

hi, guys when you burst with your toxic blade, do you think it's better try to keep a great up time on EP and save energy or just try to do more muti and envenom you can ? i'm playing with 3DD, 2TC and 1 NP

[median tiger]

im smashing this DH in m+ right now

feel so great

wrong channel

[spice surge]

@dusky tiger EP uptime is basicly irrelevant, just dont delay tb for pooling

[autumn stag]

Im getting flamed for running assa in m+, why's that?

Im newly back from a break btw

[quick ice]

peopleconsider outlaw superior

[vestal wren]

^ outlaw atm pulls very good numbers thats why

btw. assassination is not bad

sub might be compared

[buoyant coyote]

would hidden blades be better with 3 EB?

[vestal wren]

hb def. gives eb more value

but the question is if you rly need it

[marble hemlock]

outlaw looks very flashy

but its not really better, unless your grp desperately needs the aoe

which most grps dont, due to running a DH

[real bay]

not needing aoe traits like assa makes it better imo

[cloud grove]

Hi, for king rasta in p1 do you use FoK as your builder?

[real bay]

nope

just to keep poisons on them if about to drop

[cloud grove]

so garrot each one and just focus the main target

[quartz escarp]

is there any bug known with eb? If i use it two times the tooltip shows a lower dmg than with only one equipped

[spice surge]

Is because one of your other pieces have vers on them?

[quartz escarp]

it´s obv an azerite piece 😄

[spice surge]

Yes, and azerite pieces can have traits that give vers

[quasi nest]

Hi guys im not fan of exsanguinate can i play crimson tempest and toxic blade (in mm)

[quartz escarp]

but not in a amount that it would lower the dmg of two eb against one eb. Besides it´s the same piece just reforged from ss to eb

@quasi nest yes u can, but with having ss or multiple ss it´s not the best decision

[quasi nest]

Shrouded suffocation ? Yes i have i ll try to aclimate with exsan then.. ty

[cloud grove]

I have 3 x SS but TB sims higher than Exsan

[royal lantern]

exsang is good cus you get energy fast back

[quartz escarp]

ur simming patchwork i guess

[cloud grove]

I am

[quartz escarp]

in a raid ss isn´t the trait to go....but i was talking about m+

what does not mean it´s bad in a raid

[worldly ledge]

@quartz escarp 1ss for raid is fair enough

[cloud grove]

SS is still my highest simming trait

[quasi nest]

My ss are on the second circle and other traits are likz pure gafbage soo ... ill try both tb and ex

[slim bloom]

which is better? outlaw or assassin in m+?

[royal lantern]

deepens on the key/group

[quasi nest]

But i always fail my rotation with this ex mecanic

[royal lantern]

or if you are able too take a wits trait, press bladeflury and do 300k aoe dps while making a tea

[raw fox]

I'm still trying to get 3 SS 3 EB

[spice surge]

In general outlaw is better

[slim bloom]

considering switching to outlaw cause reapin

[cloud grove]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/i64P9BXZz96qAnDB7cWAeu

[raw fox]

Outlaw is strong in weeks like this one, where adds just don't live long enough.

But in certain weeks Sin will be better.

But this week, outlaw is king.

[quasi nest]

@cloud grove is it normal i sim 100 dps more with 371 ilvl ??

[spice surge]

Yeah if packs lasts longer than 65 seconds then outlaw starts to fall of when bladeflurry is gone

[cloud grove]

@quasi nest nope, this is without buffs thou

@quasi nest same for you?

[raw fox]

That seems so low.

[cloud grove]

it was high prepatch, not sure what changed

I stopped playing

[quasi nest]

Same with same 3 azerite items

Ok i jist did it now

[cloud grove]

and..?

[strange python]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

[quasi nest]

Y @natss still ahead u

[cloud grove]

100 dps?

[quasi nest]

107

[cloud grove]

something is clearly wrong xD

[quasi nest]

I have on talent different kidney line

[cloud grove]

won't change much

[quasi nest]

(And i m 13k dps ST ingame anyway)

14~17 MT

[cloud grove]

Well I am not sure what the porblem is

link your sim

if you don't mind

[quasi nest]

Np i ll in a min need to be a on pc i can t copy paste with this potato phone

Im in the bus

[cloud grove]

oh

[strange python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/isQFW1BYzUbdbxuWR6jN3B

is that normal ? Mastery > Haste

[polar tapir]

If u have a lot of haste and Quick nav enchant, mastery begins to overtake haste

[strange python]

i have like 1430 haste without any procs

about 21%

[polar tapir]

Yeah that’s why then

For me crit is far and away prio stat atm. Worth siming stat weights with every new piece u get

[strange python]

so sad when, i threw all the mastery pieces I had ^^

[spice surge]

as long as it doesnt have vers, ilvl is almost always the best (excluding trinkets and azerite........................)

Since all 3 stats are good for assa

ilvl and/or socket

If you equiped more mastery your haste and crit would go up

[vestal wren]

hmm

[spice surge]

hmmmm

[strange python]

poison damage have been upgraded so far ?

[vestal wren]

😛

versa isnt even bad tbh

[spice surge]

Nope

Its not

Its still fairly good

[strange python]

golden plumage is so good

[vestal wren]

ye i got one from weekly chest, like it

[brisk frost]

be glad. i am forced to use mekkatorque's trinket since its 410 with socket. but i just hate that thing. so annoying to use

and 2nd trinket its kimbuls, also bad for assa but its 415 and havent got any other big trink yet

[karmic ingot]

Mekkatorque’s trinket looks like such a pain in the ass.

[brisk frost]

it fun how it never lines up with ur cd's

[karmic ingot]

Yeah, I’m sure it’s terrible for that. I’m surprised it even sims well tbh.

[brisk frost]

its*

but yeah

[karmic ingot]

Seems like the best you could do is try to line it up with TB so you can get an extra envenom in your TB window.

[brisk frost]

yeah i've got some huge bursts with tb+env since i have this crit trinket and got one blightborne trait

if they happen to proc same time

its huge

[buoyant coyote]

Is there a way to make hidden blade work?

in m+'

[royal lantern]

stack EB multiple times i gues?

[scenic saffron]

Has something happened with the simulations ? i have %33 mastery and mastery still simms highest for me for both exsang and tb. Haste used to be my highest sim no matter.

[quick ice]

Same settings?

[scenic saffron]

yea

i simmed it 3-4 times to be sure

[quick ice]

Weird. Can you link before/after?

[onyx rock]

33% isnt that much 🤷

[quick ice]

33% is like 800ish?

[scenic saffron]

yea, i cant link though. Just wondering if i missed an update for the spec. But i changed my azerites maybe thats why

i had 1650 haste before and haste was simming the highest, now i have 1400 haste and mastery simms the highest. Thats why i was surprised

[quick ice]

Probably the azerite. What did you change?

[scenic saffron]

i had dd+scent of blood. Replaced it with NP+DD

[quick ice]

Could do it. NP damage scales with mastery? Stat weights are pretty close for rogues tbh.

[buoyant coyote]

so 3 EB and atlest 1 SS

[quick ice]

@buoyant coyote ideally yeah.

3 of each would be 👌

[buoyant coyote]

only have 1 atm 😒

[autumn stag]

bis dungeon trinkets?

[buoyant coyote]

galercaller

[pallid spruce]

u think outlaw is better than assa now ?

[buoyant coyote]

xdxd

[spice surge]

For most dungeons yes, for ST in raids, no

[buoyant coyote]

@quick ice do u spam FoK with those traits?

[pallid spruce]

eleem what is ur RIO ?

[spice surge]

1.6kish

[pallid spruce]

can i have then opinion from little bit more expirienced player thank you ❤

[spice surge]

?

[shut coral]

can anyone help me out with a quick qeustion

[spice surge]

Theres like 40 rogues with higher raider.io

[quick ice]

I think he's saying you have a high r.io?

[buoyant coyote]

@shut coral with what?

[shut coral]

M+ for 10+- is it worth playing the exang build or stick with norm?

havn't had a chance to sim the spec out

[quick ice]

Depends on traits, but exsang doesn't stick you to a target for 8 sec to get full use.

That's a big thing in its favour

[pallid spruce]

is there someone around 2k-2.5k rio score rogue here ?

[shut coral]

yeah, was going to say, also the amount of adds with bleeds help on reaping affix

[buoyant coyote]

musclebrah is like the best rogue for m ?

[shut coral]

also iceandfire, that's pretty rude, were all a collective.

[pallid spruce]

what is rude ?

[spice surge]

Theres like 5 people with above 2k

[quick ice]

I just checked. 8 rogues over 2k.

[shut coral]

ravenholdt is a collective for rogues

[pallid spruce]

for me season 1 , 2k-2.5 if fine too

[buoyant coyote]

i was only 1.1k 😒

982 rio atm

[spare nacelle]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[marble hemlock]

@spice surge PepeHands

[latent gazelle]

Just because someone’s io score isn’t super high doesn’t mean they don’t know the class/spec..

[marble hemlock]

and just because someones score is super high, doesnt mean they do 😄

[real bay]

it only means they play a shit ton of m+

and they know how to run those

[peak rune]

Did rogue change from season 1 to season 2 ? in stat prio or smth ?

just started to play again after 3 month

[graceful coral]

would you ever consider echoing blades over shrouded suffocation for dungeons?

[real bay]

for normal dungeons doesn't matter , m+ you want at least 1x EB

[graceful coral]

trying to figure out my dungeon azerite balance between double dose ss and eb

[real bay]

DD is pretty bad for trash with EB you mostly fok

unless it's a single mob lol

[graceful coral]

but dungeon isn't all trash tho right like

[spice surge]

Most of it is trash

[graceful coral]

like i've already kinda started commiting to my outlaw spec for dungeons but trying to sustain respectable aoe while not losing powerful st for assasination seems like a challenge

[pallid spruce]

outlaw i smade for unskilled rogue players 😄

no need skill

also boring

[bleak spoke]

i find assa easier tbh

[real bay]

assa always loses st with aoe traits,but it's not too bad, 20-23k today some bosses

[bleak spoke]

i don't feel taking shrouded with ebs hurts my st that much

[spice surge]

Depends on how high the key is, burst with SS is really good

[real bay]

shroud doesn't EB does

it's a big loss to DD

[bleak spoke]

idk playing subt and exsang doesn't feel like dd helps that much

i'm running either 3eb + dd + 2ss or 3 ss + 2 eb + dd

[pallid spruce]

better reroll to DH

suppa easy

[bleak spoke]

why anyone enjoys playing dh is beyond me

[real bay]

too wheelchair mode

can't

[bleak spoke]

^^

i just wish subtlety was good again

like i'll still play it in siege and shrine probably

but lol

[pallid spruce]

if u want to top dps in mythic + most of time then DH, havent they doo all the time 25-30k dps..."overall" at least when i runned keys... u dont need perfect gear for rogue anymore cos it sinking little bit

[bleak spoke]

i outhit dhs on trashpacks easily with EB

[pallid spruce]

u do +100k ?

[bleak spoke]

yes?

lol

[pallid spruce]

then u do same

[bleak spoke]

well last week at least

this week it's more like 60 or 70

stuff doesn't have enough hp with the keys i run

nd tht's more for reapings

[pallid spruce]

what was ur rio s1 ?

[bleak spoke]

really big pulls i'd say like 50 or 60 is peak for me but i'm not the best

like 1600ish, not very high

Like there are ppl in here who are actually good who do much better

[real bay]

pretty sure I had overall 30k in manor today

big reaping 100k easy

[bleak spoke]

Every time I feel satisfied with myself I turn on Seli’s stream and he’s doing 10k more on the same packs xd

[real bay]

40 to 50k seems quite normal if it's a little bigger pull

[bleak spoke]

^

[median sonnet]

Was there some custom sim snippet which allows to sim M+ situations? Or is there some other settings for sin M+?

[solid nova]

!m+

[prisma monolith]

Use the fight style Dungeon Slice (Beta) for a M+ simulation on Raidbots.

[median sonnet]

Oh neat, thank you

[lavish frost]

hellow o/ havnt played a few weeks and there is the new m+ season etc etc. so what ilv drops from +10 atm ?

[glossy kestrel]

https://mythicpl.us/

scroll down to "loot" section

[dark crag]

400

410 weekly chest

[median tiger]

I have been smashing in m+ this week

Dumb ass party fail to make time on siege though

So mad

Its season 2 already ppl

[dark crag]

I don't get the loot i want or others get the loot i want

[median tiger]

Monk tank think he can stagger his ass off from pulling 2 big packs

[haughty flame]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d6eUxaiwUgntxnc6shrnKd

21k dream ❤

[night vale]

ooooh nice

[vestal wren]

gz 😃

[haughty moth]

guys how are you meant to use Galecaller's boon with exsanguinate? Do you need to line it up with exanguinate, or do you use when you have low energy?

[haughty moth]

❤ thanks mate

[strange python]

is overwhelming power actually good or does it only sim high?

[vestal wren]

it depends on the encounter, the majority i know opts out of it in favour of other powers

if you look at #1 log on first mythic boss, the player uses it

[median sonnet]

How does sin opener looks with multiple targets (M+) with SS + Sub + Ex? Each of the guides seem to describe the pull for ST... Drop empowered Garrote to 3 targets and then directly into Vendetta followed by Ruptures and EX?

Assuming there's no priority targets

[sick oyster]

http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[median sonnet]

Yes, i've checked that

[real bay]

if they live long enough rupture more than one

[median sonnet]

Rotation part doesn't tell whether it's for ST or MT, nor when to us Ex again after pull, so just wanted to get few things clarified :)

[chilly obsidian]

Any of you cheese the first boss on heroic?

[real bay]

nope we tank them too far away

[chilly obsidian]

That would be good for parses I guess. I'm talking more like focus boss only as an entire raid and nuke boss

[real bay]

yes

same can be done in mythic i guess

[atomic jolt]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[main mirage]

Is the alchemy trinket worth getting? How is it working for you guys

[proven frigate]

made the 400 trinket. extreme disappointment. better use out of 385s

[main mirage]

Hm thats kinda what i expected

[median sonnet]

Hmmm, when EX cd is about ready and Rupture has like 10s+ left, should I still refresh it with 5cp and then use EX?

[plain thistle]

yes

[median sonnet]

ok, thanks

[tranquil perch]

dont know if its been asked befor but does anyone know how the zandalari bleed racial will work with regard to energy generation or exsanguinate?

[strange python]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[royal lantern]

it should not

more energy reg cus of a race

that would be so ridicolous broken

[buoyant coyote]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/21#boss=2271&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination&difficulty=4 HOW do i reach 50k dps on that boss?

O_O

[earnest token]

Let one of the adds get consumed by the boss. Elongates the fight so ruby can stacks higher and you get more vendettas

[buoyant coyote]

o.o

my best is 35k

<_<

[earnest token]

Longer the fight goes the better your dmg will be as long as ruby keeps stacking

Also getting the crit buff to come in during your vendetta helps too

[tacit wolf]

EB in M+ do you just use it as your defacto AOE rotation? or throw up dots?

[real bay]

as aoe and cp generator

[peak rune]

Crit is the best 2ed stat for m+ now ?

[karmic ingot]

It has been since 8.0.

EB just made it even better.

[sand otter]

Whats EB?

[vestal wren]

a azerite trait

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=287649/echoing-blades

[strange python]

ive decided to try assa and am simming 19k, is that a bit too low at this point?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f3M6aRzJTpGS3Q1LVPyS3T

[tacit wolf]

so if you have 3 DD and EB would you still use FoK as the CP generator?

[strange python]

FOK it all

[wary steeple]

I seem to be having trouble with my DPS on Trash packs in mythics and I can't seem to find out what im doing wrong, Ilvl is 383 and Im throwing poisons and garrotes on everything. But I just can't seem to be getting higher than 10k DPS

[tacit wolf]

what traits do you have?

[wary steeple]

Azerite traits or Talents?

[tacit wolf]

also if you're using subterfuge, go stealth before every pack for strong garrote

traits

[wary steeple]

Shrouded Suffocation, Treacherous Covenant, Nothing Personal, Blood Rite, Collective Will, Azerite Globules, Resounding Protection

[tacit wolf]

yeah go stealth before every trash pack and get as many empowered garrotes as you can

[wary steeple]

But even then, it still wont do that much.

[tacit wolf]

garrote, ruptures if they live the full duration and normal envenoms

if you follow a normal single target rotation, it should be more than 10k

[fickle obsidian]

the curse of being sin

zzzz

I think the game wants me to go outlaw

[unreal kayak]

or sub

[fickle obsidian]

that too

[idle ember]

I'm stuck between TB with 2x DD 1 x SS and Exsang with 2x SS and 1x DD. They're simming 205 dps apart, Exsang being higher, but I can see TB maybe being the better requiring less micro management.

[latent field]

Depends on the fight

[primal gazelle]

That ring is dope for EB traits

Probably bis tbh

[latent field]

Exsang is a bit less uptime reliant, but harder to use

[primal gazelle]

High crit and verse for the fok spam

[honest needle]

are 3 ss stiill best for m+

[sharp coral]

@idle ember imo this is all dependant whether u prioritize dungeons or raids

[stoic spruce]

Hi all, first time msging in this chat. Started Wow TBC.. took a long r/l break until BFA came around and in 8.1 have rolled a rogue, would someone mind answering a bonehead question or two? in particular around mythic + ? don't mind posting here but i'd hate to bore the wide audience with what may be obvious questions - thank you!

[olive wharf]

@stoic spruce I'm pretty new and just started messaging myself. If you check the pins/ravenholdt guide first, people seem to be pretty chill and less elitist than the other class discords 👍 (Balance Druid's discord during Legion was absolutely brutal)

[royal lantern]

didnt you read that r/wow post? this discord is full of toxic people that always tell you too check the pins

[cerulean walrus]

Reeeeee

[sharp coral]

@stoic spruce if you don't wanna bomb this channel with simple questions feel free to dm me

[stoic spruce]

@olive wharf @sharp coral appreciate it gents. one stand up gentlemen has already messaged me, so i'll take it from there, and bother you on demand.

❤

and @latent sigilran asked one question, get multiple people willing to help, yep, seems a terrible place 😉

[olive wharf]

(I mean I literally asked really basic dumb shit about raidbots APL in Outlaw just a second ago and Fuu was very patient and cool about it)

[cerulean walrus]

Lmao

[olive wharf]

Whereas in Druid, I'd be blasted to hell and back, possibly even suspended for that.

[stoic spruce]

😉

[plain oxide]

@ocean rain garrote on st?

💩

[ocean rain]

@plain oxide eat da popoo

[olive wharf]

Anyone else hate the lack of SS+DD pieces in BoD? Kinda miss having an SS trait 😦

[idle ember]

@sharp coral it's 90% raids for me, I only do 4-5 M+ a week.

[sharp coral]

then i would play toxic blade

and traits like double dose, twist the knife

and get like 1 shourded suffocation for the opener

at least that's what i found success with

[ocean rain]

@plain oxide My bis weapon drops from this boss dont sit me 😭

[tacit wolf]

what dungeons drop good daggers?

[quasi pewter]

kings rest tol dagor underrot are best for assa

but there is so few stats on weapons i wouldnt go to a dungeon just for the best statted dagger

[somber otter]

hey iam looking for a add-on for Shroud. So that party members can see the remaining CD

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[lusty narwhal]

Is that even possible lol

[vestal wren]

https://wago.io/S17rjKruX

will count down starting if 5 sec is left

[somber otter]

yup, I found it TY!!

[tawny iris]

What should i take, scent of blood or endless hunger?

[tardy stratus]

hey guys, is galecaller good on m+ ? (assuming crit / mastery bis stat for multi target, hast not gud right ? )

[bold trail]

Sims for galecaller will always sim at 100% uptime during its duration and use on cd too. Can you maintain its buff for the whole duration? Are you using it on CD? If you can do that it'll beat most trinkets. Otherwise dont bother and just use a simplier trinket :)

Depends on your role for the group too. Are you there for the aoe? Or ST damage?

[safe matrix]

haste isnt super good for m+

plus theres a ton of movement

there are definitely better trinkets

[sharp steeple]

my boys, let me ask u sommething, can i stack double dose?

[bold trail]

Yes. You can check what traits stack on the pinned messages via the azerite link

If you want to check which traits are gon a be best for you, it'll be more accurate to check your own sims though.

[sharp steeple]

@bold trail can u give me link? i cant found it

[vivid nova]

Question guys, should is exang much better than toxic blade in mythic +? And also, if im doing mythic plus should i always be running crit/mastery as stat priority?

[bold trail]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o

[sharp steeple]

@bold trail ty love

[safe matrix]

exsang is much better than TB in m+ @vivid nova

TB locks you to envenom/one target which is bad for m+

[bold trail]

Exang and TB difference is small enouh it doesnt make a huge factor if you can manage your bleeds.
Stat priority changes as you get more. Check pin messages for a rough idea. However sim yourself and check stat weights then.

[safe matrix]

exsang lets you switch targets whenever, you arent forced to use envenom as a finisher,and you get increased energy regen from the increased tick rates

theres very little/no reason to ever take TB in m+

[bold trail]

Its tyrannical week this week. So I'm biased towards TB this week. But I'd say it depends on your group. Are you there for the aoe or to rip apart the bosses?

[safe matrix]

exsang does both

TB doesnt

and even on tyrannical keys, trash is 60-70% of a dungeon

[strange python]

Hi, I know its probably in here somewhere but I cant really find it. With the changes in M+. What traights generally work well to boost overall AOE dps without sacraficing to much ST damage. Getting a little confused with all the current options

[crimson condor]

1x eb or 1x treach cov for m+ if I can only pick one?

[safe matrix]

Hmm good to know

thank tisumi

[bold trail]

Exang isnt bad its just in aoe sitations you may hit energy caps.

[raven mica]

alright so I got no EB, would 3x SS 3x SoB be good for M+?

[vivid nova]

@gusty kestrel sorry for the dumb question but what is pb? poison bomb?

[safe matrix]

yep, Poison bomb

[raven mica]

or should I swap out some of the SoB for some ST traits

like DD?

[vivid nova]

gotchu and how should i sim for mythic + on raidbot? What settings do i put, thats why i was asking about the stat priority

crit > mastery or haste > crit for mythic +

[safe matrix]

Theres the m+ dungeon slice setting

haste typically isnt super good in AoE, since you'll have a ton of energy regen from your bleeds

and most of m+ is AoE

so you want to be a bit lighter on the haste

[mortal patrol]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[bold trail]

I wouldn't use the dungeon slice at the moment. I personally use patchwerk 4-6 bosses 20/40 seconds. No buffs.

[weak tundra]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wUHLZFu5fmfV8U1xUym6MJ

22k dream achieved

[strange python]

guys cant seem to have good dps in several mobs,any tips?

[bold trail]

@weak tundra Oo you've got a mastery gem?

You might be able to get closer to 23k with all haste gems in that situation

[tepid flower]

What’s the proper way to open on a pack in m+ with SS? Do you overcap combo points to get out as many garrote as possible? And then crimson tempest? Or get ruptures up to benefit from scent of blood?

[bold trail]

Get triple empowered garrotes off. (Combo point cap priority disappears). Then get those ruptures off early. Knocking how long the mobs will be alive will help in not wasting time of bleeds. Since CT has a shorter duration you could technically hold it for a few GCDs.

[vivid nova]

@bold trail do you recoomend CT or PB for lvl 100 talent for mythic+?

[bold trail]

If you got SOB traits you want to be finding those ruptures on as many as you can get

I'm lazy and run with PB but thats because I'm more there for the ST.

[vivid nova]

do you run toxic blade then im assuming?

[bold trail]

Do a few runs. Try CT - check its overall damage.

[vivid nova]

and since youre there more for ST than anything, are you gonig haste>crit or are you going for crit > mastery @bold trail

[bold trail]

Like stat priority doesn't really play a huge factor unless you're gonna be pushing hard. My stats are so close to each other it changes with each piece of gear. I'm stacking haste because of raids.

[vivid nova]

@bold trail do you play TB or Exang

[weak tundra]

I prefer high-ish crit for dungeons, since it feels pretty awkward to FoK into 3 packs for maybe 1 or 2 CPs

[vivid nova]

yeah that does make sense phran

[weak tundra]

exsang also feels better for prio targets in packs since you can forget about if after applying

whereas you have to dump envenoms into the target with TB on it

[vivid nova]

when yo urun exsang do you run poison bomb or crimson tempest usually

[bold trail]

CT vs PB is more about whats the dungeon. Look at FH: bigger pulls go CT. KR: smaller pulls go PB

Its all about group comp and how many adds you're group is gonna do.

[lost sentinel]

I know CT is meh on KR, but what about EB? makes sense to change right?

[vivid nova]

@bold trail overall do you think outlaw or assa is best for mythic +

[bold trail]

Haven't dabbled into outlaw at the moment. But with 6 traits outlaw is looking good.

I havent gotten lucky with my traits so im just running DD with SS for mythics.

[fair blaze]

@lost sentinel EB is ok, cause it has a good value while fighting at least with 2+ enemies(KR doesn't have a moment while you are fighting 1 enemy except Zul)

[lost sentinel]

kk fair point

[bold trail]

KR also does suffer the giant brute. The several constructs before 2nd. But it depends on how the group approaches those. Its minor though in the whole aspect of the dungeon.

[weak tundra]

imo with reaping CT is worth it even in KR

you shroud the first two constructs anyways

might be different on high tyrannical tho, idk

[bold trail]

KR is sucks with reaping >< triggers in the gauntlet

[buoyant coyote]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6JGoxi5s45DyCun2FAnsT4

[bold trail]

Unless you get lucky and get the poison group last.

We cant see your traits brightlight.

(Well i cant on my phone)

[buoyant coyote]

idk i used the guild raidbot channel

1 Nothing personal
2 Blood scent
1 Dubble dose
1 Convent
1 SS

[bold trail]

Gems? Enchants?

[weak tundra]

sims tell me triple DD is better, but playing without at least one SS just feels so bad imo

[buoyant coyote]

haste LOADS of haste

Quick and deadly

https://gyazo.com/fd6b2bd425e0d5ae7cbee8b05c8ad7fa

[bold trail]

Deadly MH quick Oh?

[buoyant coyote]

quick MH , Deadly OH

[bold trail]

Oh gawd... your haste is low

[buoyant coyote]

y

unbuffed though

farming 3 EB for m+

[humble crane]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9EiJtPg1EQarYSQtZvNQuv

my haste is low

im valuing mastery more now because of double dose I guess

[buoyant coyote]

what ever haste ring i sim crit and mastery win somehow

[bold trail]

Just make sure you're enabling the option to replace enchants/gems :D Haste just looks really low. Im sitting on like 25%

If memory serves me right.

[buoyant coyote]

how?

wtf

[bold trail]

Haste on nearly every piece. From what i can see on yours, you're wearing highest ilvl?

Have you tries using top gear?

Tried*

[spice surge]

Highest ilvl is usually more worth it anyway

Since all stats are good for assa, vers is just meh

[bold trail]

Agi doesn't scale well for us though.

Ilvl basically is agi

[spice surge]

Its also more secondaries

[buoyant coyote]

I am

And its not giving me any item that has better haste as top gear

[bold trail]

Mmmm. Pastebin me your simc and ill take a look when i get home.

Wont be home for a few hours though.

[buoyant coyote]

will be asleep by then

xd

[sturdy python]

As eleem said, higher ilvl gear tends to be the best for assassin

Haste isnt so much better that a 5 ilvl difference will favor it

Usually

[bold trail]

Yeah just pastebin in to me now and ill have a look at shoot you a message about it

[spice surge]

Since both mastery and crit are so valuable as well

[sturdy python]

Rings obviously are a bit less forgiving

Yes

And agility isnt worthless for us

[buoyant coyote]

https://pastebin.com/udbqCyX3

[sturdy python]

You can just link the stat weights or top gear sim

[bold trail]

True that haha

[dark crag]

Your talents can also shift your weights a bit

Mastery navi sims 3 dps better than haste navi for my current ma setup due to bad azerite luck

[buoyant coyote]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3sphr9pX6nUzboo5GxmfVm

[spice surge]

Double scent for ST is oof

[sturdy python]

crit haste and mast are essential equal for you

[buoyant coyote]

got nothing better <.<

[sturdy python]

So no wonder. It makes sense lower ilvl haste gear doesnt sim higher

[buoyant coyote]

Probly ^^

i could gamble at 385 azerite but seems meh

[humble crane]

Wot, highest ilvl gear is never best for me 😛 if it were I would be 407 equipped lol

[drifting cloud]

well if you dont count sockets it usually is

[sturdy python]

Sockets make a difference

[drifting cloud]

unless you have high haste items going to high vers

[sturdy python]

Yeah dont do that Bright

[buoyant coyote]

wtb good azerite

my only good is the 415 helmet

[polar bridge]

Hey guys just got my rogue to a decent item level and have a few questions. Does toxic blade snapshot for the nothing personal trait. Like, do I need to use vendetta before or after toxic blade to get the buff on the trait. Also if I have a scent of blood trait on AOE do I throw out a lot of low combo point ruptures to stack the buff or do I get them all to 5 combo points?

[spice surge]

No and no

[sturdy python]

Its dynamic, NP will be buffed while TB is up

[buoyant coyote]

snapshot in 2019

[humble crane]

wish I had some sockets 😛

[potent stone]

Hey guys, is there a video guide you could recommend?

[buoyant coyote]

[polar bridge]

Cool thanks. also, I assume I always go toxic blade if I have double dose and nothing personal traits, correct?

[humble crane]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHhMs8nWsJM

Cause he my boi

Gotta plug him

[buoyant coyote]

put bleeds then afk

[humble crane]

And check the intro to his sub guide, its hilarious 😛

[buoyant coyote]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vZ6WRDCn1P8FmihMN5uPeA

huh

so that sims higher wtff

@sturdy python why does that sims higher?

any specific reason why ?

[humble crane]

huh

echoing blades is aoe, thats why it sims lower for ST XD

[spice surge]

Because scent is fairly awful for st

[sturdy python]

Because DD>SS ST and Blood rite probably is much worse than scent

[fallen sandal]

sup, does someone has 400 alchemist stone raidbot line for me to sim ? ty

[spice surge]

Go into gear compare

[humble crane]

Na the main difference in that sim

[buoyant coyote]

That is gear compare

[humble crane]

is the swap from EB to NP

on his shoulders

[sturdy python]

He didnt swap EB to NP

[buoyant coyote]

Blood rite sims higher wtff xD

[spice surge]

Blood rite isnt bad

[sturdy python]

He pressed EB on a 3rd set

[fallen sandal]

i doesnt have the stone already

[sturdy python]

Base shoulders are NP/Scent

[fallen sandal]

i want to know if it's worth or not crafting it

[spice surge]

Go into gear compare and type the name of the trinket @fallen sandal

[fallen sandal]

oh yes

[spice surge]

Unless your trinkets are like 360 i wouldnt craft it

[fallen sandal]

ty

[spice surge]

Its really bad

[sturdy python]

@buoyant coyote Try that same setup and throw in MA too

Will be even bigger since you dont have any SS like that

[buoyant coyote]

MA?

[sturdy python]

master assassin

[humble crane]

Brightlight whats your sim difference between Exs and TB?