At least include some context in the chart > _>"
#assassination
civic palm
primal gazelle
not my chart but thats 75 percentile heroic logs
lone junco
destro time.
fading wigeon
does toxic blade increase the damage of your trinket if it is nature damage?
lone junco
391 is bigboi
quick ice
SS is better in short fights because higher relative garrote uptime?
@fading wigeon no, toxic Blade has a whitelist of abilities it buffs, trinkets aren't innit.
fading wigeon
damn ok thanks
lone junco
that ss work.
fights that are right at 3min like ss.
vanish intervals
2 MA in the top 100x
Subterfuge kings.
twilit portal
yeah, MA is trash pick
lone junco
gonna see a lot of this stuff.
primal gazelle
MA would be highest sims with 3 tc 2 dd 1 np but they just gutted tc sooo..
not gut but
ss might be stronger
spice surge
Looking at grong hc first week isnt really the best place to look
Since most people havent been able to optimize anything in terms of azerite when at that boss
quick ice
Anyone know how to set up an override to check TC value post-nerf?
primal gazelle
average ilvl 376?
lone junco
seems pretty normal
quick ice
Think just hard on rogues.
quick ice
casuals though
lone junco
vodka
pallid spruce
is there any news like nerfs or buffs for rogue ?
civic palm
bleak star
why are they runing 2 nothing personals? i thought only 1 worked and didnt stack
empty tide
the damage stacks
civic palm
Because that's what they have.
dry crow
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
spice surge
Im sure you'll be seeing more DD's and TC's in the upcoming weeks on those toplogs
There arent many fights where you can get meaningful cleave damage with vanish in this tier
bleak star
ive got 3 double doses, 1 nothing peronal, 1 ss, and 1 enginerring trait
quick ice
jadefire feels like you can, and then the monk decides to TP away right after you vanish. or the mage goes to pyro
and its like 
empty tide
MA should be 100% ๐ฆ
bleak star
would you wait to vanish with full combo points to evenom into 2 muts with MA ?
spice surge
You do vanish>5cp envenom>mutilate>envenom (pray for 4cp, but mostly 3)
On a target with vendetta and toxic blade up
quick ice
I saw someone talking up vanish-tb-mut-env, but I think that might have been an opener-specific discussion
spice surge
Afaik thats what the sim does, but somebody showed the one i talked about being like 15 dps higher
So the difference is pretty trivial, as long as you get one 5cp envenom in and dont waste the globals you're good
civic palm
Yeah it's worse holding, you lose that 15dps pretty fast.
pastel wasp
civic palm
uhhuh
finite yarrow
does cloak work on iceblocks?
cold meteor
Nop
finite yarrow
kk ty
quick ice
living action potions?
untold current
whats the opener with MA, toxic blade and shrouded?
i see opener for MA, and opener for SS with toxic, but nothing for combined
quick ice
you shouldn't run MA and shrouded
untold current
ok, basically only run if u running DD and NP?
bleak star
i think with twist the knife as well
quick ice
basically its ok to run so long as you have 0 SS
plain cairn
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fleet whale
assassination un-touched... for now
rapid halo
really suprised
cerulean walrus
Anyone know how the TC nerf is gonna affect gearing? Probably should stay the same
rapid halo
wont change much
fleet whale
it will probably still be best
or at least close to top
sin not being nerfed isn't that surprising, the surprising part is sub getting it's traits nerf but nothing in return
well, rs got buffed
so i guess it got something lol
quick ice
ballparking TC nerf has it about the value of DD, but probably still top2 traits
but this is literally napkin math
cerulean walrus
RS is a meme though
Anyway, So I'm still gonna be shooting for 3x TC 2x DD 1x NP then
fading wigeon
any tips on padding the jadefire masters?
rapid halo
just keep poisons+bleeds on both bosses
also grab an orb if ur raid isnt and multidot and pad there
elfin fossil
Anyone have the 400 alch-trinket and if it performs any meaningful for assa?
real bay
an example of pad , garrote all adds on first boss before going on boss 
real bay
hope Grong logs are fixed soon for ally, did 20.5k in reality but bugged shit showed 18k as get fight is missing 20 seconds on pull . It shows as trash fight on logs
tribal marlin
is it really important
red plaza
Question about MA/TB build, what's the correct order to optimize when 2 min CDs are back up? 3CP > TB > Vendetta > Vanish > Envenom > Mut > evenom > etc?
real bay
it's annoying
smoky fiber
i think you have it right except vendetta and Tb switched
chilly marsh
strange python
when does exsanguinate start overtaking toxic blade?
strange python
ty
inner pecan
and if you're night elf
all those things will tilt in the favour of a ss/exsg build
other generic azerite favours tb
strange python
was asking because i have 3 ss but tb is still ahead
patent topaz
I switched to TB from exsang, sims 150 dps more. I have GCB and one SS
also mastery is pretty high for me
strange python
I have an issue. And I dunno what that issue is. When I try to do dmg the GCD and the "lagg" overlapp and I most of the time overcapp CPs due to me spamming the button but nothing happens, then both happens meaning I get 2 mutilate in instead of one. Ex. I have 0CP. I want 2 mutilate, I press mut, I preas mut. 1cast goes off, 1 crit and have 4 points. The the other one. It is like a delay. And then I overlap to 6 CPs. I know that is a dps loss but is it huge? How can I fix this? It is not an internet issue. Must be in-game or just that I need to stop spamming to use every GCD
strange python
But I always have it. 24/7. I overlapped so many Mutilates in raid all the time. I hate it
solid nova
Tell me what it says
But if its a recent thing, it's likely the rest of the 8.1 world lag
strange python
I cannot right now, at break at work. Will do that later
Okey. So what do I do?
Waste GCD in favour o not overlapping CPs?
solid nova
If its world lag theres nothing you can do ๐
rare jackal
thinking of returning after taking a break around christmas, what is the state of sin?
inner pecan
sin is one of the best melee on ST
rare jackal
why, was there another zul incident?
solid nova
No, 40% tfd nerf
rare jackal
how is melee dps in the new raid? is it as shit as in uldir?
inner pecan
not as bad
rare jackal
oof
inner pecan
less spread mechanics
solid nova
Range DPS are poppin yeah
light narwhal
is outlaw still pretty RNG with damage? like depending on rtb ?
solid nova
Outlaw has the highest dps variance in the game
But in m+ its really good with reaping atm
Cant go wrong with sin though
If you want a 1 spec suits all
light narwhal
give graplin hook to sin and i'll never change
solid nova
๐
rare jackal
i enjoy sin the most, but i wanted to play sub as well
but it was hard to justify in most situations
especially mythic uldir
inner pecan
it'll be even harder this tier unless they give an aura buff
sub is in a very bad spot
solid nova
Sin or Outlaw will be alright if you're wanting a spec to come back to
Sub needs some love first
inner pecan
no insane niche anymore for sub and weak st and aoe
light narwhal
my sims are recommending me pieces without haste as a upgrade and haste isnt even my best stat atm. could this be because my mastery is godawful low like 400 vs 1k haste and 1,2k crit? i'm pretty new to simming but haste is suppose to be my main sec stat right ?
solid nova
Link the sim ๐
light narwhal
god damnit hahaha i will when i get back home this afternoon then 
solid nova
At a point all stats will be devalued after a certain amount
strange python
So due to lagg. Should I waste half a GCD to not overlap CPs? Since I feel that hurt more than just waiting a little bit. The only thing waiting means is more pooling of energy? Or is this such a small thing I should just accept it?
solid nova
Id wait until you figure out if its your custom lag tolerance or world lag first
Might be a fix for both on the forums somewhere
devout jolt
took the plunge last night and regemmed all my Haste gems with Mastery because Sim told me too. Now I feel super slow but cannot complain, damage on Donkey Kong HC was very very nice.
clear blaze
i'm too afraid to lose much EP uptime if i lower my haste for mastery or crit monkaS
fringe estuary
Do you guys feel we havecompetitive dps in dungeons?
solid nova
Your patchwork sim would take that into account though ๐ค
fringe estuary
Maybe I'm doing something wrong
clear blaze
ofc, its more like a feeling since i'm so used of having high uptime
light narwhal
get 3ss and 3 eb and you'll do great damage in m+ i think
devout jolt
due to my gear, im using 2 ss, 2 eb, 1 sob and 1 dd. its not perfect but its nice on packs and ST
clear blaze
dude i wish i had such a good combination when patch hits tomorrow for eu ๐
devout jolt
still need more Mastery (just) https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gfskgX6iggRdzjZTsmuD6Z
light narwhal
im 392 and i sim 18k 
god my gear is awefull
clear blaze
392 with new azerites, or old 390s?
light narwhal
2 old and 1 new with SS/ that 68 agi each rupture thingie
strange python
do you guys use the dungeon slice sim on raidbots for m+ or some "x bosses patchwerk" stuff?
clear blaze
i replaced all my 390 with 375 from m0, which gave me ~1k dps increase in total
warm harbor
is there any rogue ability that can break us out of jaina iceblock?
dapper moat
One u get into when 20 stacks?
If so i think i tried to cloack in it and did not work
light narwhal
it's called Unexploded Ordnance 
other then that i don't think so.
maybe if you cloak right before reaching 20 stacks
clear blaze
cloak does not remove stacks, but prevent from refreshing duration / getting new stacks. so basically no, we do not have something like block / divine shield / ibf to easily remove blocks
true tartan
Is anyone can see my logs ? I make a log compare with another rogue with same ilvl and I don't understand our difference during the opener....
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/acFCXy1ZHYTntkWL/wfaqV8794cFACkPh#fight=9,4&source=8,Noctemi&type=damage-done
My rogue is Volkom
late dawn
He used potion
solid nova
๐ค
Then you shadow stepped, ran around for 10 seconds and ruptured, no idea
You're over capping your CPs way too much
And your EB value on that fight is practically zero
true tartan
EB value ?
solid nova
Echoing blades
true tartan
oh ๐ ok
solid nova
49k FoK damage too, 7k EB, probably better off just single targeting at that point
buoyant kraken
Is raidbots Update with the recent treacherous covenant nerf?
solid nova
Your opener isnt correct either, refer to the guide for your talent/traits for that
fickle viper
Is raidbots updated with blizzards incompetence?
vestal wren
i agree that balancing seems a bit strange
odd hatch
true tartan
Ty Richard ๐
zinc zephyr
is there a possible connection between 3xSS traits and haste simming way higher than before for me? (dungeonslice)
vestal wren
seri made a statistic for top m+ runs (top 100 or so) and the sim was not to far off
slightly overvaluing boss maybe
zinc zephyr
i see, is this a new update for dungeonslice?
vestal wren
no
thin patio
zinc zephyr
hmm, at the end of season1 haste somehow simmed at the bottom of stat weight
autumn trench
Is there an easy way on wcl to see % of damage that's nature other than doing the math manually?
river prawn
Serious question. Is it worth 3 stacking double dose and giving up on shrouded suffocation? All sims I do say it's a big dps boost but I cant logically justify giving up SS
vast forum
By all sims, you mean all 1 target patchwerk sims?
solid nova
Sim 2 targets and see ๐
devout jolt
due to my gear luck, only one solid piece of gear with DD, I am using double SS on ST.
2 kills and 2 coins on CoL and still no Helm
:<
real bay
DD is yeeeet
icy ember
and multiple stacks of DD is recommended? just curious
winter moss
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jMxgXn3bPH2FCzhZ#fight=6&type=casts&view=timeline&source=3 actually sad how often i cant get 3 envenoms in one tb window
shame on me
autumn trench
Doesn't the sim only aim for 2?
lone junco
@solid nova ๐
mortal fossil
With the 10% nerf on Treacherous Covenant is it still the top trait to stack? Info on herodamage is two days old (27th)
vestal wren
the nerfs are not live yet so there is no data on them
(or maybe later today if raidbots updates earlier)
mortal fossil
Ah my bad thought that update was out today/tomorrow
lone junco
idk why they bothered nerfing the TC. They can always bump the hp penalty to 30% instead
vestal wren
i dont think TC was op
but i dont think it will change a lot unless it was close before
sub nerf is very minor due to the recent apl chnages for tfd (so its ~ +- 0)
(this does not mean it was no nerf but ppl did not play the change yet so wcl rating wont change)
lone junco
would make things more interesting. at least at the prog level when people die a lot more. sims dont punch back.
idk, traits are pretty bland. something with thorns is new ish.
do you enjoy SP or is it just a good alt rn
patent topaz
we didnt even clear heroic in 2x3 hours :/
lone junco
last twich i saw of SP was weak during Legion . and looked annoying.
then again, the last time I mained priest was vanilla. no insanity stuff.
will be neat to watch.
I have accepted that it is sin or bust. At least that way, I can barely play and still remain competitive. And the M+ is going well.
just need 3ss +2dd +. and 3ss +2 eob + and im set for a while.
zinc zephyr
im dumb
i was still holding exang for every galecaller
solid nova
rip
zinc zephyr
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
winter moss
scenic saffron
wait, holding exsang for every galecaller is wrong? Why?
solid nova
How do I use Galecallers Boon?
-With Toxic Blade: On cooldown
-With Exsanguinate: Do NOT hold exsang for every galecaller. Use them seperately on cooldown with the exception of the third galecaller use, which you want to delay to line up with vendetta+vanish+exsang at around 2:25
winter moss
it's literally in the pins
lone junco
@scenic saffron just think of Exang and Haste as Energy return. Tick rates on Exang come in faster. GCB is hasted Tick rates. Neither is a huge damage buff. Thats the Vanish Garrote. Exang just ends that faster.
If you delay your exang or the gcb too much, its no diff than removing a few hundred E from the fight.
vast forum
Who would ever look at pins tho
quick ice
I do that sometimes too ๐ฆ
verbal mantle
I feel better playing with Exsang
winter moss
exsang actually sims 30dps lower atm
BUT
will change next thursday and TB will pull ahead
lone junco
I have seen a few logs with ss/subterfuge and Tb
mossy adder
would anyone like to critique/rip apart my performance on jaina? have logs and a POV
would appreciate it greatly
lost sentinel
I kinda like TB in raid, but I almost always Exsang in M+
strange python
!Azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
royal lantern
hmm, new sims after the nerfs allready out? TC still one of the best traits for ST fights?
tawny sable
I find Exsang to be very a very unrewarding button to push. With Tb it feels powerful, with Exs, numbers just start moving faster. Very underwhelming ability.
strange python
@lost sentinel you should ALWAYS have Exsang in M+
tiny vapor
When exsang was available before Legion, I remember it was like 500% faster, it was the best spell ever, so much burst and it felt great to use.
But it was obvisouly a bit op 
quick ice
think it was 400, but it sure felt good then yes
lost sentinel
I think the only time I didn't run exsang in M+ was when I didn't have SS for a short period
I mean exsang (edited it)
tiny vapor
I prefer exsang in M+ when I have at least one SS yeah
Double Dose is such a boring trait
strange python
Oh. Ye. Well. RIP me. Yes if you have SS ofc. Sorry mate
lost sentinel
I look forward to getting some EB in the current tier
strange python
EB + SS is super nice. I have it. Nice dmg, nice AoE normal damage and very burst during reaping waves
royal lantern
wtf did they do with outlaw lol
just checked, and my outlaw sim is only 300sim dps behind sin with a 10ilvl lower weapon?
robust light
Do you guys always reapply rupture when it hits pandemic? Sometimes I can't decide wether to risk an extra envenom and let rupture almost drop (or sometimes drop for ~1sec) OR just reapply as soon as rupture hits pandemic
tiny vapor
Outlaw is gud atm
solid nova
@robust light Its still in pandemic as long as it hasnt dropped off ๐
lost sentinel
there isn't a loss as long as it doesn't drop off
robust light
Yeah I get that but as a general play do you just always reapply as soon as it hits pandemic
solid nova
Its better to refresh then let it drop
robust light
And what about during tb? Is the extra envenom buff worth losing like maybe 1 sec of rupture?
solid nova
Unless its going to die and its last gcd or something
lost sentinel
I think TB is the only time it's okay to drop off
solid nova
I mean there should be very few occasions where that'll happen
lost sentinel
yeah, it's def not ideal
robust light
I tend to try going into every tb with a healthy rupture uptime but sometimes it just doesn't happen and it feels bad hitting rupture while tb is up :p
tiny vapor
Yeah but not applying it and seeing your energy not coming back as fast is a pain too :/
robust light
Yeah and it feels forever til you can get rupture back up
solid nova
Refreshing rupture in TB is still better than letting it drop
But try to avoid naturally ๐
lost sentinel
I've been told to not refresh during TB, but I can't imagine it's a huge difference
solid nova
If you have to, its better to refresh during tb than letting it drop off or force refreshing outside of pandemic
sinful lotus
Hello everyone, was scrolling up and saw a few people saying they were surprised that Sin hadn't been nerfed yet. I was surprised by this because looking through Heroic parses from 70% Percentile and up (80-90- MAX) SIN rogues seem pretty steady around middle(may upper mid) of the pack. Thoughts?
solid nova
Dot friendly raid
Makes sin good
Same as uldir, sin was good because its good for downtimes/progression
Then you saw more passes from other specs as they came to be on farm
Likely same thing to happen again
tiny vapor
Outlaw is damn close
sinful lotus
I understand why it is a friendly raid to SIN, but other specs are far superior to SIN (Spriests, boomies, Destro etc)
solid nova
Have to wait for mythic to get a proper gauge imo
Yes
Dot friendly raid
as said ๐
sinful lotus
Yea, so why the expectation to nerf Sin?
solid nova
It was incomparison to the nerfs sub got
As the least performing spec
And the other 2 were untouched
vestal wren
well they did not nerf one of the top performing specs
solid nova
Sub was already underplayed and got nerfed
Meanwhile Sin and Outlaw were untouched, which are massive more represented
sinful lotus
Ah ok, makes sense, ty ๐
solid nova
Ya
vestal wren
"hey ill just nerf the spec by 1-2% that noone plays, lets see if ppl play it then"
weak rose
Donโt worry boomkin isnโt a top performing spec and itโs azerite wasnโt buffed right 
strange python
I just find Outlaw on incredible boring to play. I just want to play Sin.... lol
vestal wren
then play sin
dark crag
And sin is not boring?
vestal wren
๐ best spec in game, what do you mean
wild lily
we are a PURE DAMAGE class which means we are all pure people
vestal wren
you can play feral druid if you want to be a purr damage class ๐
lone junco
@tiny vapor 400 exang was awkward because the garrote cd was still 15s? so you had a massive gap.
tiny vapor
@lone junco Yeah indeed, just the opener was funny has hell
strange python
The reason I find Sin fun is that you do more things than damage. Outlaw is damage.... nothing else. Sin is tricky plays, silences, iron wires to time inc dmg in high keys. Trying to still work in your rotation. I just find it very complex is you fully use the spec
lone junco
meh. I just think high uptime melee is depressing when you have to run out for mechanics. Sin has a grace period.
run out do a thing, blink back, no cap no drop. no loss.
vestal wren
sub in late legion was fine as you had high burst where you could run out between
now you kinda need 100% uptime else rip
dark crag
No king rules for ever
lone junco
yeah. dfa jousting was ok.
tiny vapor
Yeah Sin is also slow paced and allow you to actually look at what's going on around
lone junco
outlaw is just more buttons with similar/less output.
vestal wren
outlaw is rly good in keys atm
lone junco
prob
zenith notch
I actually dislike Outlaw AoE
vestal wren
well its bound to bf
lone junco
I finally got a 380 swerd from a wq. higher than my MH heroic maiden dagger.
vestal wren
so if you run out of stacks its meh
zenith notch
the Blade Flurry mechanic is fun, but it annoys me I can't AoE everytime I want
zenith notch
yeah, I know, but still... I think I liked it better when it was a mindless toggle button
lost sentinel
I don't mind outlaw. I'll probably pay more attention to it this tier.
strange python
That is True, but boring Haha :P I have 3xSS 2xEB. M+ is very nice. I burst the reaping waves very easy:) my tank is also a nice guy. Keeping 3 mobs up that I can pre-rupture for energy = constant spam or FoK
zenith notch
I like the class fantasy... it's way better than Combat used to be
But overall, it feels as it's missing somethign
cobalt gyro
It is, it's missing a damage cooldown
simple meteor
they turned assa into mindless shuriken storm like sub 
zenith notch
Subtlety is the same... I like the whole "shadowy ninja" class fantasy, it's really awesome,
But gameplay wise, I think WoD Subtlety was more fun to play.
lost sentinel
best part about outlaw to me is cooldown reductions
tawny shell
What time is US reset?
smoky fiber
10 est
zenith notch
Assassination got improved IMO
smoky fiber
1 hour 48 min
zenith notch
I do miss Kingsbane, I wish we had that instead of Poison Bomb
lone junco
meh.
vestal wren
@simple meteor or, they add burst aoe to a spec that has no burst aoe ๐
zenith notch
But if you compare Sin now with Sin from WotLK to WoD.... Sin is way better now
zenith notch
KB added a nice touch to the rotation
lost sentinel
That talent could be improved for sure
zenith notch
Poison Bomb is just a passive that you get angry when it doesn't proc
It isn't a fun skil
lone junco
It should work with blindside.
lost sentinel
5 energy refund is boring af
zenith notch
5 energy reduction does make the rotation smoother
lone junco
yeah at the loss of damage
zenith notch
It doesnt really matter, as it hardly competes with TB or Exsang
It could be in another talent line
Or they could have not changed it all
Old VR could compete with TB
cobalt gyro
Blindside should be viable
lone junco
I tried to use the Mut trait from last tier with garrote mut crit. + vr + blindside. I was BLOWN away that the bonus crit didnt apply to blindside.
cobalt gyro
Even in execute blindside is worse
lone junco
Blindside is just wrong. it should just convert mut into an execute instead of some other bind. that costs less. 1cp. does shit
zenith notch
But Blindside has always been this way
They basically added back awful skills nobody liked
honest basin
Less class design to do
zenith notch
Back in Cata, you 'd use Blindside (Dispatch) to save energy at execute phase
lone junco
haste BAE with alacrity
zenith notch
But if you had the energy to spare, Mutilate was always better
Same with Crimson Tempest: it was awful at WoD and it isn't great now
cobalt gyro
CT is fine
lone junco
i like ct. especially with kited teeming
cobalt gyro
Blindside just needs to give 2 cp and it'd probably be quite good tbh
lone junco
2/4 would be a start.
zenith notch
They could make Blindside similar to Execute for Fury Warriors: inscrease the damage by a lot, give it a cooldown, make procs reset the cooldown.
lost sentinel
I think blindside simply needs better tuning
lone junco
and then it would trigger VR
zenith notch
it's not more buttons... it's technically the same amount of buttons you had in Legion
because you lost a button: KB
royal lantern
lets be honest, Kingsbane was basicly another TB too
atleast you played it like one most of the time
lone junco
I liked the KB ramp. it was a bit different.
zenith notch
Kingsbane was cool... specially when it was bugged. ๐
royal lantern
yeha, cool in theory,in reality you simply did the same you do in a TB window: use it, spam asmuch envenom as possible while its up
zenith notch
Not so much, because KB didn't line with TB after Nighthold
It was a DPS loss to try to sync them both
cobalt gyro
NP basically makes vendetta windows into that
royal lantern
i never said you used them both at the same time?
zenith notch
plus, all you needed was the envenom buff, not actual envenoms
royal lantern
i said it played the same way
zenith notch
unlike TB, when you do want to envenom as much as possible
royal lantern
and i would prefer kingsbane as a 100talent over poisonbomb for singletarget btw
zenith notch
we had this rogue in our guild
that everytime he complained about DPS we 'd scream POISON BOMB!!
because the guy only did good DPS when he had like 27% PB procs
royal lantern
legion poisonbomb was such a bullshit mechanic
unless it proced 6x on pull, then you where top dps because you are such a skillfullplayer
cobalt gyro
Just make PB into a button you actually hit tbh
Thematic anyway for a poison/bleed rogue
strange python
Btw. 3 last bosses. Should I sim my ST as troll? Since we all go Horde (I am Nelf) normally. Maybe that changes something? With their haste racial?
tiny vapor
PB procs felt awful in Legion
But PB procs are kinda useless in BFA, doens't do much tbf
royal lantern
because PB was so powerfull in legion that our other stuff was not really strong
fading wigeon
Anyone use the invocation of Yulon yet?
quick ice
Yes.
fading wigeon
@spooce#0518 how do you like it?
quick ice
It's got a really cool animation
Splitting on AoE is ew, but on ST it's like, acceptable.
fading wigeon
Ah ok. So probably good on conclave?
fading wigeon
Gale is simming better so I'll just stick to that then
lost sentinel
gale is just awesome
fading wigeon
@lost sentinel agreed
quick ice
Got to be careful on conclave when you use it probably because there's a bit of movement.
strange python
what's the best race for sin rogue
solid nova
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
solid nova
B elf or Gnome apparently
strange python
is it not possible to shadowmeld into stealth for more empowered garrotes?
if so that would be pretty insane i'd imagine
solid nova
You can do that yeah
strange python
thanks very much
i guess any race is a pretty trivial advantage tbh
i was just curious
solid nova
Yeah it does use meld
solid nova
Was new info for me too ๐
strange python
^^
plain vault
Do raidbot sims count the Gift of the Loa set bonus?
cobalt dagger
hello guys , i'm wondering, why crimson tempest isn't use anymore by big rogues on M+,is it because:
-thanks to the new FoK azerite traits we don't want to use our cp for crimson, because spreadign more rupture will give us more FoK Spamming thanks to energy regen through venom wounds?
-same thing with the rupture azerite traits that give more agi
-is it stat related? or for the versatile aspect ?
ty for your answers
cobalt dagger
y but less
lost sentinel
@fallow estuary you can meld on bosses and get SS benefit on garrotte, just not subterfuge benefit
rose perch
@cobalt dagger one part of it might be that some of the best sin rogues (who played CT more than less experienced ones) are now playing mostly outlaw this season, or only playing sin in specific dungeons like KR or ToS, which play to the strengths of both sin as a spec and PB as a talent over CT
cobalt dagger
yea that sounds legit :), still even ravenholt consider it better on AOE encounters , but that's a good PoV ty , still wondering for the simpart ๐
rose perch
yeah on AoE raid encounters it usually is better
cobalt dagger
because ravenholt consider aoe being 5 patchwerk i guess
rose perch
CT is really a M+ only phenomenon
cobalt dagger
ok, wich dungeon would u consider picking PB ? ToS ? what else ( not talking about tyranical weeks , i mean where PB will have more value on ae situation than CT ) i'm not pushing very high tbh 14-18 may be my highest
rose perch
ToS and KR are the big ones because the pulls are usually smaller numbers of enemies and the single target components of those dungeons on both fortified and tyrannical are more important than in most dungeons
other than that I've only ever used PB to squeeze out more single target damage against high tyrannical Heartsbane Triad or pre-nerf Elder Leaxa
cobalt dagger
thank you very much Dratnos, much appreciated ๐ , it's not blurry anymore ๐
serene basin
shrine and waycrest are great dungeons to try CT as well
cobalt dagger
y it really shines in waycrest ๐ , not tried shrine much since i came back , ty phil ๐
serene basin
Yea I mean starting from the first pull to the priests in the chapel before the 3rd boss, CT is nice in shrine
the mobs before the 2nd boss, the eels before the last boss, the list goes on
tiny vapor
Are you guys stacking DD and NoP on all bosses, or do you think we could use EB or SS on AoE fights ?
spice surge
There are no "aoe" bosses in BoD
There are a few where ss could be useful, but EB no
rose perch
Yeah I'm thinking that some of those SS > DD fights might just be Outlaw > Sin fights too
definitely not looking to use EB
scenic saffron
Are there any fights that require the ss trait or will I be alright if I dont use the ss trait and only go for ST build which is TC+DD and toxic blade ?
serene basin
triple DD is great for st
quick ice
I would say, based only on heroic, that SS isn't mandatory. Not 100% sure how much will change for mythic.
clear blaze
"require" is such a strong word. depends on the content youre pushing. only st will be fine imo
scenic saffron
I have 3x SS + 2x DD + 1x Twist the Knife. I dont know what should i change in order to up my dps. Thought about giving up the SS traits and replacing them with TC + DD
For raid ofc
serene basin
yea you should be fine w/out ss honestly
wide hedge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2Qr5aoZosqXSaztpThW7NQ
why am I simming so low with 387? seeing other rogues with less/same gear simming over 19.5k. someone seeing whats wrong?
tiny vapor
Weapons maybe
winter valve
Not as good azerite trait as others
woven shard
try simming with MA
lament dove
only one socket
tiny vapor
Noice
primal gazelle
got the 415 goruk sholder ๐ฆ
not SS/EB but i guess its okay..
has DD/SS or NP on it
nimble tartan
im rolling for chest
winter moss
you like being hated omr, dont you?
wide hedge
oh wait i'm not simming with bl? woops
normal ridge
Someone can give me TotT macro on focus? pls t
final stone
@nimble tartan yooo let's do dude grats
I have a 385 with socket so mine is almost as good Haha
austere scarab
Does the Treacherous Covenant nerf hurt it too badly?
winter moss
well see tomorrow
dark crag
[@target]
winter moss
[@focus]?
final stone
@austere scarab what's the nurf ?
austere scarab
10% iirc
austere scarab
Heart of Azeroth
All Classes
Dagger in the Back effectiveness reduced by 10%.
Champion of Azeroth effectiveness reduced by 10%.
Treacherous Covenant effectiveness reduced by 10%.
real bay
still good
winter moss
unless you are constant under 50% :>
spice surge
Just slightly below DD instead of slightly above
austere scarab
garts
buoyant coyote
that leech on it tho
winter moss
sick damages
quick ice
in fairness, TC nerf isn't implemented on raidbots yet
final stone
Yeah I bet it will be a day or so before it shows
quick ice
we can help!
tropic furnace
can you tell me is assa still go to
tropic furnace
for the new raid and m+
solid nova
Either choice ๐๐ผ
quick ice
I think seri wants to have it ready and updated within the next couple hours
tropic furnace
we didn't change stat priority
final stone
Yeah outlaw is good but I hate hate the rng of the spec
tropic furnace
and our azerite traits?
solid nova
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
solid nova
^
final stone
^^
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
final stone
I love me SS though
quick ice
stat prio is variable dependant on talents, gear etc
tropic furnace
What about PVP?
final stone
I have a ss/eb piece for m+ and aoe spamlord dmg haha
tropic furnace
assassination still top?
solid nova
Not sure about that personally, theres pvp heads in #pvp
Its definitely good but i dont know how it compares to the others in terms of performance
tropic furnace
Ill see if someone there can just give me a heads up :d
solid nova
Socket too
final stone
Grats!!
strange python
:d
buoyant coyote
no hast either
final stone
When I get home cache is going to give me 415 dagger!!
solid nova
Grats on the ilvl boost? 
strange python
i rather hae my
solid nova
I mean if its an upgrade its still alright ๐
fading wigeon
@final stone thanks man. I believe you will!
fading wigeon
Thank you!
solid nova
No
buoyant coyote
ah...
solid nova
Hits like a noodle
lost sentinel
I got a mastery heavy, vers light 410 cloak, but with gemslot, so pretty solid due to the gemslot imo
buoyant coyote
they should rebalance some talents to refresh the playstyle abit
lost sentinel
I only wish it wasn't upgrading a 400ilvl cloak, seeing as I am still using a 370 gemslot bracer and 385 daggers
it's all good though, gear comes pretty fast in this game
I wouldn't be surprised if I use that 410 cloak til next season lol
zenith gust
what order is the galecaller + exhan + vendetta? is it vendetta-> trinket-> exhan?
wild mural
you can vendetta and trinket at the same time but yes
plain thistle
vendetta before exsanguinate
zenith gust
k thx!
plain cairn
Im kinda sad, bought a 415 chestpiece and got twist the blade/nothing personal on first ring and unstable catalyst/scent on second ring
Second ring feelsbad for raid
plain thistle
you should have for 1 mythic piece if you did everything every week ๐
after season 2 ofc
rustic ether
how much is a 415 random?
lost sentinel
a bit over 1700
rustic ether
wtf
lost sentinel
you get 625 or something from a 10
lost sentinel
I got shitty AP that didn't move my AP meter too much
spice surge
You only got 15-25 from it prior to this week
lost sentinel
I got residuum once before 8.1 where it was... maybe 30 total if that
spice surge
TR that is
lost sentinel
erm, before this tier I mean, not 8.1
untold current
Any suggestions on what slot I should get a rando 415 azerite for?
untold current
mainly raid
untold current
right, lets roll the dice then
rustic ether
SCENT OF BLOOD INC
untold current
what do u mean
spice surge
If you buy random, you get 1 of the 6 items that the vendor has
strange python
hey cuties
for alliance, what race u'd recommend for assa/outlaw? Nightelf?
dont say gnome please
strange python
but why?
plain thistle
gnome master race bro ๐
strange python
aw come man.. ๐ฆ
still sky
That's a weird way to spell Dark Iron Dwarf
plain thistle
for raid? no
cerulean junco
Sooo if you end up having one EB and one DD trait. Do you still EB 2 target?
strange python
why u wanna use EB ?...x3 garrote for the go
spice surge
If there are more than 3 targets you cant garrote them all
strange python
well u can atleast 3
cerulean junco
Iโm talking about after all that.
strange python
oh
plain thistle
because EB is a good trait for AoE
strange python
owow.
dapper bough
Nice
dapper bough
can weapons titanforge ?
plain thistle
@strange python https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/races/1t-t23-assassination
strange python
thank u!
sturdy python
@dapper bough just 10 ilvl I believe
spice surge
Not from weekly m+ chest no
dapper bough
Oh
spice surge
As that chest is 410
bold hearth
echo cargo
Was there tuning done to NP today? Someone last night in guild was talking about the traits not stacking anymore...?
dapper bough
2.4k rating ... brb getting some skill
sturdy python
NP wasn't touched. Damage stacks but energy does not as usual
pseudo hamlet
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
heavy haven
are TC nerfs already counted in that?
river prawn
When's the best time to use TB. Before or after popping vendetta?
sturdy python
After
haughty lily
i would disagree and say before because then you have more time with TB being up to pop envenoms
strange python
k i went gnome fml
solid nova
Absolute unit
real bay
you have plenty of time after using vendetta, I mean it lasts a lot longer than TB..
primal gazelle
does living action potion stil lbreak out of jaina icebloc?
spice surge
@river prawn After, since vendetta takes up a global you do NOT want 1 of your 9 seconds of tb to be spent on applying vendetta
real bay
as with all things they are on the guide, with math behind them
spice surge
And you want the 30% increased damage on your tb damage as well
real bay
this
strange python
so basically if u are using x3 EB u also use MA?
quick ice
I mean, you're probably running 3 SS, so no.
rustic ether
SS more versatile
strange python
thanks darling
sturdy python
@haughty lily vendetta lasts 20s, tb lasts 8
If you tb fist you lose one global inside tb
serene basin
correct me if I'm wrong, a standard opener should look like: garrote, rupture, garrote, vendetta, tb, envenom, mut, mut, envenom
tb after vendetta feels correct
you can squeeze in a 3rd envenom witin tb w/lust (maybe even without)
plain thistle
you are correct
sturdy python
That's with ss yes
plain thistle
yeah double garrote only with SS (and subterfuge ofc)
hollow talon
guys did they update raidbots with the hotfix nerfs?
dagger in the back is still simming higher for me
spice surge
No
hollow talon
hmm so should i take double dose over it
sturdy python
Same ilvl? Yes
wise star
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
primal gazelle
hm
im pretty shocked there are no pieces that contains SS + DD combo in the game
i guess blizz thinks thats op?
rustic ether
i got a mastery vers 410 ring T.T
polar bridge
410 spyglass from weekly not bad not bad
prisma monolithBOT
There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.
strange python
nice thanks
main monolith
hi guys one question 19% haste is good in raid?
round harbor
410 dagger
main monolith
๐ซ
round harbor
Ezclap
vapid lodge
Juicy
vapid lodge
Just a tad haha
hollow stone
And here i was happy with my 415 crit heavy mast legs
vapid lodge
Whats the thinking on residium if you arent pushing high mythic raid and mostly M+? Save for 415 or just go 400?
final stone
@vapid lodge are you doing at least heroic?
vapid lodge
Yea but the guild is super casual
spice surge
415 items are better than 400 items, if you dont want to wait for the 415 then grab 400
But i'd say regardless its just worth to save for 415
vapid lodge
Sounds good ty
final stone
yep what Eleem said!
So i messed with SP this morning and well it sims higher and HD has it sim higher than the other option of SoB
But the dam Bwambi spawns out of melee range
you think im going to run to get the buff and lose downtime on the bosses to go get that shit where ever it spawns lol...
so def rolling with SoB unfortunately until i replace that piece with something else
bleak spoke
425 socketed wrist out of chest and a King's 12 lmao
final stone
ayeeee i want that kr!!
ornate meteor
why is the plumage trinket is on top for assasins? isnt versa not good for assasin? or is it because its a trinket that can be use in burst window?
hollow stone
Plumage lookin' like it may be better in practice than gcb. Exsang may have something to say about that but it's nice to see there's an alternative
bleak spoke
plummage in practice is very very tanky
like it means you have a pseudo external up during your vendetta and that's super strong in dungeons
hollow stone
You line it up with vend; vend 30% + like 12-15% from the vers + the added tankiness = value
bleak spoke
and the damage is competitive with every trinket that isn't galecaller's
hollow stone
Its competitive with gcb too based on sims
bleak spoke
but even vs galecaller's it's like 200-500 dps less for exsang 3 ss sims for me
glossy kestrel
@main monolith you should be able to get more than 19% haste unbuffed
ornate meteor
ahh i see
bleak spoke
obtuse ruin
is there an updated sim that compares all dps? http://www.simulationcraft.org/ seems for only 385 ilvl
bleak spoke
hollow stone
Look at warcraft logs and select dazar; that's not true bis sim dmg but will show how classes did/are doing in the new raid. Can also filter by parse % and a bunch of other things
coarse carbon
Raidbots has me dropping all SS traits in favor of TtK + DD + NP and going TB + MA instead of Exsang + Sub... It's nearly a 500 DPS increase which was surprising. Without the 3 CP opener from SS, what is the ideal TB + MA opener?
spice surge
Its in the pins
hollow stone
G m r m vend tb van/env (assuming 4-5cp) m env
Although, you may use 1st gcd of ma with tb now. Idk
coarse carbon
Thanks to both
warm leaf
This may have been asked before, but does anyone know if you can evasion the coin shower ability on opulence and not take damage from it?
hollow stone
Its been asked but i dont think we had a definite answer. Consensus was probably doesnt work but cloak might
civic palm
Probably.
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
So this is Fireball -
Which you can Cloak, because the effect is what it is.
What's some Fire spell you can't cloak?
There's been a few.
slow mortar
Well, during a shower doesn't your back get wet? Thusly evasion won't stop golden coin shower
trail cypress
Lava Lash?
civic palm
and you're sure you can't Cloak LL?
slow mortar
Now I'm curious if cloak stops enhancement's ascendance autos
civic palm
From what it looks like the RESIST component of Cloak is a hit reduction modifier, so if there's a hit roll check it will fail to connect.
dapper bough
I'll go do opulence fast and try if evasion works
i'll update you x)
also wow, i didn't know that the tier 3 ring was providing that much dps... i nearly got 1k dps just by unlocking the 3rd ring on my 400 helm and 385 shoulders
feels good
blissful tide
Yeah thatโs why most guilds that are at least somewhat serious to mythic raiding is requiring neck lvl 38 lol
dapper bough
yeah makes sense
wary ice
O.O i have some grinding to do
civic palm
So, Coin Shower can be Blessing of Protectioned > _>
blissful tide
Of the blessing that protects you from literally all damage
Who would have guessed
stable pine
What piece of random Azerite did everyone get first? Head shoulders or chest?
Iโm contemplating waiting to see what this heroic run will get me before buying my random piece - got head from last week heroic - hoping for shoulders from this week the will buy a random chest
bronze topaz
is it possible to step back on board after siren throws us
stable pine
I tried but I wasnโt successful not sure if itโs due to LOS or just the charms lasts till you reaches the water? @bronze topaz
gilded arrow
do we think Sin has the gas to make it to the end of the tier as competitive or will sub / outlaw outscale mit
it*
civic palm
Assuming the BoP comment was about the DMG O _O and not whether a spell effect has a roll on the hit table O _O okay.
MA all day ๐
vital haven
the leaf one?
dapper bough
yes
civic palm
e z p z
dapper bough
?
vestal stump
It's decent in my experience at 385+socket. Better than fathoms at least, which is what I replaced. Trinket luck had been ass up until that point. I imagine at 410 ilv it's likely to be better than anything else you have other then a nice gcb or plumage. Obv sim it to be sure.
dapper bough
yeah i'm simming rn... i have dice + gcb equipped atm (385)
I hope it's better than what I have... would suck to get a proc for nothing :<
strange python
stupid q, what is gcb?
dapper bough
trinket from sots afaik
strange python
ty
vital haven
iits prob not better than either of those
just so you know
especially if you are esang
dapper bough
it is better than dice by... 0.2%
vital haven
oh wait 410
dapper bough
lol
vital haven
eh nvm
dapper bough
0.2% upgrade whoo
civic palm
Consistent too ๐
dapper bough
yeah
brittle idol
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
prisma cypress
so treacherous covenant is still A+?
civic palm
Top 5 sure.
real bay
sad opulance kill, didnt get crit buff at all
dull osprey
What is wrong with my gear (besides only being 380?)
Oh and the weapon, haven't had a chance to go get the chant from this morning
junior aurora
thatll probably bump you up a good amount
novel moss
Hey
Is anyone still getting subt not proc when vanishing
like sometimes
cos it seems to be happening every now and again
spice surge
You're missing a lot of traits in your azerites
blissful tide
Bad trinkets as well
sick cradle
How is EB for m+ after nerf?
blissful tide
I was gonna say wasnโt EB nerfed like 2 days after it was reworked
strange lichen
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
sick cradle
ay, that's the nerf I'm referring to ๐
plain thistle
lets go boys ๐
spare nacelle
whats the addon that shows the azerite names??
plain thistle
I'm glad I got a good one and not some random shit chest piece
civic palm
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
covert epoch
have no idea what azerite gear to buy, doin my head in lol
fallow estuary
Get 415 Chest
Helm + Shoulders are first 2x bosses
no reason to get em
bis chest is .. trinker i believe
junior aurora
yeah imo the only chest worth getting from raid is mekkatorque and thats 7 bosses in
fallow estuary
*tinker
covert epoch
yeah was checking that out but isnt bomber jacket also really good
junior aurora
i guess it really depends on what you have already for azerite
fallow estuary
Depends on your guild progress level ofcourse
If you allrdy have the BiS heroic and you won't see masters dead on mythic for a few weeks
covert epoch
yeah thanks will go for a chest at least can trade other chests tonight
junior aurora
most of the chests are decent too
covert epoch
knowing my luck ill get the worst one lol
junior aurora
get a better helmet, consider running exsanguinate bc of the gc boon trink
covert epoch
woohhoo got gore splattered vest
junior aurora
and ofc the better helmet comment is for single target bc its a patchwerk sim...if you're planning on doing M+ then its fine
solid nova
No sockets either ๐ฆ
junior aurora
blizz likes their rng, should honestly have a way to add sockets to gear at this point
shy axle
@spare nacelle azeritetooltip
vivid hearth
what stone do we take on opulence?
vivid hearth
thnx
prisma garnet
