lol who cares about 370 loot
#assassination
spice sorrel
It still falls under their "you wouldn't pick up money off the street" thing I would say
fringe narwhal
Isnt that what ivuss drops?
primal gazelle
ivus drops 385s and azerite which you can sell for TR
players exploiting this at +20 keys already has 390s most likely, the gear they gain is useless
fringe narwhal
I mean that's not necessarily true by any means but it's not worth discussing any longer than we have
What will happen will happen
spice sorrel
p much
tepid ridge
when is it worth to re-apply a rupture over an other one with alot of time left before exsang?
I guess we always do it even if 20s left on rupture but I'm not sure
spice sorrel
Not sure what you mean. Are you asking when to apply an additional rupture if you're about to use exsang?
slim hemlock
👌
tepid ridge
it's 20sec?
spice sorrel
20 seconds or less
tepid ridge
ok perfect
civic palm
Get Rupture to ~24seconds if you can.
tepid ridge
of course but I mean I'm pretty sure sometimes I "over refresh" before exs
spice sorrel
Howd they come up with that number btw?
tepid ridge
I guess it's maths from loss of an envenom damages vs how much it empower your exsang ^^
if you refresh
primal gazelle
lol these guys 2 chested a 20 tos with 7 mins left to spare, such great players
double rogue for the shrouds
spice sorrel
Seems legit
tepid ridge
haha
primal gazelle
run triple rogue and invis pots and just run to the end
tepid ridge
they have to fix it quick D:
spice sorrel
You think they'll at least remove those runs from the leaderboards?
ionic rose
which trinket should I use for Ghuun Mythic https://gyazo.com/da0f71606a54442a9f3ef2809e048a40
idk how to sim for specific fights
or do I just sim for ST
primal gazelle
i think i saw someone mention sim 2 min execute for ghuun? cant remember
solid nova
Yeah. 2min execute.
ionic rose
cheers
graceful coral
does anyone at some point have time to help me look through my logs to improve?
civic palm
Just remember that the chance of you hitting Ghuun for the entire 2min will vary.
solid nova
Just post them mate, people will look
graceful coral
supple solar
guys i'm lf an addon that change the color of a nameplate with a certain debuff (besides elvui) any ideas ?
summer valve
plater can probably do it but you would have to write the script yourself
supple solar
ye no idea on how to do that
slim hemlock
@spice sorrel runs have already started being removed I'm told
spice sorrel
Sounds about right.
wary anchor
CT or PB for TD?
wary ice
PB If u have to ask tbh. Ct is only good when you pull for it. That said you should definitely be pulling for it
gilded arrow
Came here for the other side of the story
primal gazelle
outlaw for burst aoe, sin for sustained, pick your poison
although i think sustained will be better for the first 1-2 months of the tier because we'll be relatively undergeared in regards to the content, cant kill everything in 4-5 globals
royal lantern
eh, deepens on your raid really
a raidgroup that is now mythic geared will outgear heroic really fast
nimble glacier
hey guys i just got 2 SS and i am wondering if going 2 SS and 1 Archive would b better for dungeons vs 2 EB and 1 Archives
wheat niche
Run 2 SS 1 EB archive isn't that great in m+
nimble glacier
makes sense, wasnt too sure how good archives was in m+
royal lantern
eh, i rather play outlaw then bfa sub
primal gazelle
i enjoyed 8.0 sub 😦
royal lantern
wath did change in the gameplay except that they remove a %dmg passive....?
peak juniper
for midfight when vendetta comes back up and vanish is still like 20-30secs off from being off cd, do y'all save vendetta for that vanish ?
or do y'all just vendett then towards the end of that vendetta do the vanish garr > rup > garrot
fluid mist
On cd is The general rule of thumb afaik. It is never worth losing out on a possible extra cast same as with Tb
spice bolt
Bleeds dont snapshot like that if you have empowered garrote from out of stealth you save vendetta so its full duration is during the empowered garrote duration.
royal lantern
you should safe vanish for vendetta, not vendetta for vanish
nimble tartan
I always save the 2 cds together 
royal lantern
dont you waste a shitton of time with that.....?
terse rune
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
cedar ivy
When do you start using FoK as cp generator with Echoing Blades trait?
wary anchor
the ivus trinket sucks right?
fluid mist
Sim it to be sure but for me it’s shite. Even at 390. But i have good other trinkets
sturdy python
You save vendetta for vanish
It's one time 20s loss, so unless the fight ends around the time another future vendetta comes off CD you don't lose anything
plain jacinth
Although with fights that have adds, its often better use save vanish for those moments instead of using with vendetta (such as mythic mythrax). Esspecially with shrouded suffocation.
hexed sail
how do we pass the 1st sethraliss boss without killing it ? training for the strat where we rush the last boss
fringe narwhal
I'd becareful doing that. It's technically an exploit
primal gazelle
Hotfixed?
desert vault
I was excited I got the head from Ivus and then I realized it sucks ... sad.
I guess it doesn't suck, just not the best thing in the world.
desert vault
Yeah it might alright to run in m+ with ss, and eb or something for fort weeks
desert vault
I was doing 2x ss and 1x NP this week and it was alright
scenic quail
I know that dots continue to tick on the mythrax weapon after it goes up at 50%, but do you continue to get energy benefit from venomous wounds from those dots whilst it is still up?
spice surge
as long as your deadly poison is still on it yes
supple compass
Is their a consensus on stacking eb vs ss?
desert vault
I wonder if 1x ss, eb, and that +vers trait would be a decent setup ...
that +vers trait will be nice next week for grevious though, heals for like 1.5k every 0.8s while moving which is cool
oh 600 per 0.8s, my bad
supple compass
Ss seems like it would just generally be better overall though, since eb does nothing on st
Or is that wrong
desert vault
we are pretty good on ST in general though, so EB performs well I think
to me depends a lot on Tyrannical vs Fortified too
you get a fort + teeming week you want EB all day
safe matrix
most of m+ isnt single target though
primal gazelle
Just run 3 ss 3 eb next tier ezclap
spice surge
1ss, 2 sob and 3 eb Pog
strange python
hey dudes,who can help me with my rogue? i seem to do low dps
proven wasp
What do you guys use to sim? I use simulationcraft on the desktop but when i sim with that versus raidbots i get completely different number
safe matrix
Raidbots is simcraft in the cloud
And updates pretty frequently
You have to update your simcraft, or just do what everyone does and use the website since it's the same just more convenient
proven wasp
So when using raidbots do you just do top gear to sim between two different things?
safe matrix
More than two things but yeah
It does up to 300000 combinations by default
Higher if you're a patreon supporter
lost horizon
er
not 300k combinations
but iterations
i mean i'd take 300k combinations if you got it though, i won't tell
weary glacier
was looking at rings in BoD and they all for the most seem 
for Sin?
chilly elm
Is x2 SS still the way to go for m+?
low junco
not really, most people use 1/2x EB but still with 1xSS
opaque tree
construct overcharger ilvl 385 vs Darkmoon Deck?? the sim is a 1% difference, but it's based on single target
pastel wasp
fringe urchin
crmison good for m+ ?
lost horizon
!ct
prisma monolithBOT
There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.
lost horizon
Sim or play whatever you think you can do better with
Exsang can take a little more effort to perform with
low junco
for me exang was a must on mythrax because of the 2nd add but now idk
bleak spoke
Ah I’m much much more confident with exsang
low junco
the bossfight is easier so i just go with tb
bleak spoke
Exsang goes on boss to start then second add I assume
patent topaz
I played exsang on mythrax and I feel it lines up well with adds
hearty junco
Is there a bis list out on dazar'alor?
tiny elk
Would you guys say Sin is a hard spec?
civic palm
No
hearty junco
well, it depends. I think its hard to play in dungeons because your dmg depends on how well your tank pulls mobs
As assa i can do insane dmg on every pull unless tank chain pulls.
tiny elk
hmm yeah, i have alot to learn about sin rogue
wide hedge
i hate it when they chainpull. premade tanks always wanting to troll me by chainpulling as hard as they can - now I play outlaw when premades are tanking xd
they broke me
hearty junco
I only play high keys, tanks usually know what they are doing there
wide hedge
well my friends are not that good - 10er keys are high keys for them LUL
bleak spoke
good tanks know the difference between what's chainpulling and giving you that like 1-2 second window to restealth/healer to drink
sometimes even if they don't you can kinda hang back LOS and be out of combat then not lose a ton w/shadowstep or sprint
low junco
happens almost all the time, a tank who chainpulls and wants desperately to wipe
most of the tanks who chainpull and dont give people time for restealth and such usually blame the others for their mistakes 
bleak spoke
i mean, if you chainpull you might save 2 seconds, which is more important than the 3 120k globals, 18 total seconds of silence and 24 seconds of 15% damage reduction during the trickiest part of pulling mobs
so i definitely understand why tanks do it
wait wtf are you not supposed to garrote 3 times out of stealth in 2t? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jLApuLrBiuo6N5VkdoZC6E/simc
it's doing one garrote per target -> rupture on main, vendetta, mutilatex2, rupture then exsang, then vanish and double garrote, overwriting the exsanged garrote into CT???????
unless i'm actually just terrible, i think the apl's broken?
robust cloak
hey guys, 3 combo points, 1 second left of toxic blade. envenom or mutilate?
lofty solstice
Depeds on energy. If you won't cap in that one second, just wait for TB
quick ice
he means left of the buff timer
bleak spoke
i think what he means is if you have 1 second left of tb active
quick ice
not the CD
bleak spoke
with 3 cp do you mutilate or just envenom with 3 cp
civic palm
What's the guide say?
bleak spoke
it isn't clear
civic palm
Finish on 4+
vestal wren
wowhead guide is more in detail
civic palm
FOR SHAME
bleak spoke
rupture doesn't snapshot vendetta does it?
quick ice
nothing snapshots vendetta
bleak spoke
like if i'm at the bottom of a vendetta with 4+ cp i might as well just envenom right?
unreal sundial
nothing snapshots on Rogue
bleak spoke
exsang?
quick ice
I guess those 1st 2 technically aren't snapshotting though, so yeah
unreal sundial
only tigers fury
bleak spoke
alright so in situations where i'm gonna run out of rupture and i have like a second left of vendetta with high cp i might as well just envenom?
or is it still better to dot it up
unreal sundial
dot maintenance is better, because you'll lose the energy regen
which will put you slightly behind, coming out of vendetta
bleak spoke
Ah okay
unreal sundial
unless u have multi targets where u can afford to lose the rupture tick as energy is being filled from passive and rotting
ST dot maintenance is higher priority than an additional envenom
bleak spoke
By multi target you mean like more than one or like, 5?
unreal sundial
more than 1
bleak spoke
Alright
unreal sundial
it isnt worth maintaining dots above 3 targets
bleak spoke
Just ct and spread ruptures right?
civic palm
Not worth in raids without Scent
bleak spoke
I’m more asking in an m+ context I guess
unreal sundial
yea, up to 3 ruptured then CT and Envenom rotating
ruptures*
and ofcourse garroting, but that goes without saying
civic palm
You Rupture until you are making enough energy that you do not starve.
bleak spoke
3t feels the hardest, maintaining garrotes and rupture and ct is pretty annoying
At least without mass grip or something like that
civic palm
Yeah thankfully there are not many 3T pulls
unreal sundial
3 targets is 42 energy +10/11 energy per second
so anything above that, you'll be wasting combo points rupturing as your dps from a rupture is lower than en envenom/re app of CT on above 3
assuming you are managing garrote's and ruptures correctly
bleak spoke
In practice though the refund from smallies dying makes it feel much more manageable in large packs
At least from my experience
civic palm
Can drop Garrote entirely as the DMG isn't anything more than Rupture but has a lower duration, depends on your target health and group dps
¯_(ツ)_/¯
unreal sundial
it feels like the cardinal sin of sin rogue to let garrote drop
I even sometimes find I reapply it at less than 10% on mobs, because it makes me feel naked not tracking it :(
bleak spoke
Feels like that’s dungeon to dungeon tho
bleak spoke
Like big pulls in shrine I garrote on high hp or prio targets but big pulls in freehold I just afk fok rupture tab
Might be different next week though
unreal sundial
yes, what you are doing is right there
specially as you lose a GCD garroting
on pull, triple garrote and unless it's a big boi mob, its seldom worth reapplying
bleak spoke
All I know is that it seems like no matter what when I turn on the twitch seli does 10k more aoe than me no matter how much I improve xd
civic palm
Just pull bigger 4head
unreal sundial
haste is effectively worth nothing to sin above 3 targets
and muscle from what I've seen has run with 5% haste in his keys, as sin (sometimes), purely because mastery and crit offer much more
bleak spoke
I’d re-gem for crit and mastery like the sim tells me to if I weren’t playing my rogue for mythrax prog 😦
unreal sundial
but then when it comes to boss dmg, he will suck relative to his haste value
well mythrax has a fair bit of cleave, so you might find some joy in mastery
civic palm
5% is way too low, SIN still has a strong kit for bosses even if we don't stack haste.
unreal sundial
yep, 5% is low, he was probably testing things
nothing we can do in cleave an ele sham or DH cant...
bleak spoke
Might be worth on fortified weeks with some EBs I guess
Tbh I measure my performance in keys relative to how the DH does on overall
I wish there was a guide which gave openers for m+ packs, like “do this when you have exsang, do this when you have exsang and vanish, do this on vendetta but no vanish” etc etc
unreal sundial
a fair bit of that comes with exposure, I think
I also dont play exsang in m+, prefer TB personally
bleak spoke
Ahh I feel so starved with tb on big pulls
unreal sundial
but then I have really nice TB trinkets, so
bleak spoke
Also with so many bosses in m+ it feels like exsang gives me more time to deal with bullshit
unreal sundial
TB is tricky, because you are alternating between other enemies so dont get a lot of effective dps out of it, as you are missing auto attacks, but the reapplication of poison from FoK adds a lot more dmg than what I think exsang provides
bleak spoke
When I lose a tb window on pull in just kinda sad for the rest of the fight
unreal sundial
not reapplying dots twice just to exsang, one application and then ur into ur rotation
playing NELF makes that more tolerable lol
bleak spoke
Oh, I’m horde 😦
unreal sundial
F
bleak spoke
I really envy y’all for the shadowmeld
Arcane torrent is super good and useful but I like big numbers lul
unreal sundial
it's super nice for a lot of things, plus passive crit/haste
and spooky backflips
frontflips*
bleak spoke
wht's the cd on shadowmeld anyway?
unreal sundial
2m
bleak spoke
honestly considering making a nelf toon to have a bit of fun in m+
oh so it lines perfectly wtf
unreal sundial
alliance PvE
civic palm
Welcome to the future O _O
bleak spoke
true, it's hard enough to find higher keys on horde pugging, can't imagine how annoying it gets haha
or rather, higher keys with competent people*
unreal sundial
same with PvP rly
bleak spoke
huh really? i was always under the impression alliance pvp was what it had going for it
unreal sundial
takes 2 hours to get a 2500 rbg team assembled on Ally
and never any LFG 15 keys
lots of 8-12s, naturally
bleak spoke
tbf on horde the listed 15 keys are usually like, 1 good group, 3 really sketchy looking groups and another group with a 2k+ io req
bleak spoke
whenever i list my 15s there's like a billion applicants tho
unreal sundial
I mean we didnt get 30% rewards on warmode cus theres a good player base, put it that way
bleak spoke
yikes haha
civic palm
Not sure that has anything to do with good or bad players.
patent topaz
alliance are bitch players confirmed
bleak spoke
yeh seems like once you get the ball rolling with turning off war mode it just spirals
on the other hand the last incursion i tried to do took like nearly 2 hours cuz of the nonstop 40 man ally raid groups so i bitched out and turned WM off
civic palm
heh
bleak spoke
12 titan residium > having something to prove lul
civic palm
and you're not likely to prove anything headbutting a crowd.
bleak spoke
on the other hand, this is the 4th Gorak Tul's Mantle i've rolled from the residium slot machine, so are these options really that different xd
hollow matrix
why spend it noww?
vague patrol
i spend some of it on my alts
it kinda doesnt really matter unless youre really trying to min max hardcore
which i am on my main but otherwise w/e
bleak spoke
cuz rogue is my alt yeh and i'm trying to push keys really hard
bleak spoke
can't get feat of strength in 2 weeks 😦
still missing 3 of the 15s
motherlode siege and shrine left
not so sure this coming week with fort/sang/grevious will be very good for that
patent topaz
m+ feels like cancer in bfa, I just do weekly 12. Nobody in the guild bothers with higher
trim nymph
guys im new to rogue, and ive seen alot of guides but got my head around a problem, that consists of taking poison bomb or crimson to m+. Raven and herodmg says its better but when i see all the big rogues pushing high, they go with crimson, can someone help me?
dusky tinsel
Crimson Tempest is default in M+, really few exceptions such as Temple of Sethralis where Poison Bomb is debatably better but it depends on your composition and how big your group is pulling
trim nymph
thank you 😃
lament dove
I'm a filthy casual and only have exp up to 10-12, but until then it doesn't really matter, you can go with whichever you like
brisk forge
I've been using PB on 16 keys aswell 🙈😎
vague patrol
m+ is awesome in bfa 😃
prob my fav thing about the game
but ya poison bomb in temple / KR / maybe underrot
crimson tempest probably everywhere else in general
unless you arent pulling big then just stick with pb
brisk forge
Is that a vampire smiley? 🤔😂
bleak spoke
it's me crying
brisk forge
Oh lol
vast forum
CT is definitely not the "default" for m+
bleak spoke
but why not
vast forum
PB is absolutely better in a few dungeons, and situationally better in others (depending on affixes/grp comp)
bleak spoke
KR and temple
vast forum
if your grp already has great aoe, but lacks in ST department, you want PB on tyrannical weeks
lament dove
and people tend to compare the 10-12% CT damage to 2-3% PB damage which is false - with PB you don't spend energy and combo points on CT, you spend that also on rupture, which translates to quicker energy -> more FoK -> more deadly poison dmg, especially if you get enough energy to even envenom from now and then
vast forum
even if you do slightly less overall dmg, you allow your other 2 dps to do more aoe, and it's the grp dps that matters, not your personal
bleak spoke
unless you're gonna wipe taking CT means you save more time on the packs anyway than the extra 3% dmg from poison bomb?
spice surge
If you're doing big pulls CT is just miles ahead
fickle viper
@vague patrol M+ is one of the better parts of BFA by default because the rest is shit :/
vast forum
PB is also absolutely better on explosive weeks
u envenom explosives and get PB to dps the rest of the mobs
spice surge
Play with a surv hunter during explosive weeks EZ
bleak spoke
isn't it better at like 5 mobs already
vast forum
i mean, if all pulls in the dungeon are 5 mob pulls, yea
bleak spoke
5+
vast forum
but where do u have 5-mob bosses
bleak spoke
so like every pull
vast forum
if your DH is smacking AoE, you will speed up the pulls by a few seconds with CT
but have 0 value on bosses
silk stump
just 1 question what is your rate Yoppa?
bleak spoke
without PB
vast forum
CT has literal zero value on bosses
spice surge
If you do high enough keys and things outlive the initial aoe burst
Then CT is soooooooooooooooo far ahead
But if you dont and things die before you get your shit up
Then might as well not
vast forum
as i said
situational
if you're a +20 player, go with CT
but just saying "CT is default" is a blatant lie
bleak spoke
i flatline at like 14kish moments before second vendetta, with PB it's like 14.5 lul
on ST
like yay
i guess it's pretty good
bleak spoke
in ST on bosses?
vast forum
what you don't realise is that by padding aoe, you're reducing the effectiveness of already better aoe classes in the grp
spice surge
???+
bleak spoke
???????
vast forum
ele is pretty stronk atm
bleak spoke
unless you're playing with a sub rogue or a destro lock your pack dmg doesn't change their rotation
vast forum
anyway, my point wasn't that you shouldn't take CT
just that it isn't the "default" option
bleak spoke
frost mage is still gonna drop an orb, dh still gonna eye beam into 2 dances
etc etc
vast forum
because there is no "default" option
you always choose depending on dungeon/level/affixes/grp comp
bleak spoke
how about this, except in cases where you need to literally squeeze out every last drop of damage on bosses in a dungeon where you pull less than 5 mobs consistently, you take PB, otherwise take CT
so tyrannical temple keys
CT isn't even bad in KR if your tank doesn't take the bridge 2 mobs at a time lol
spice surge
!ct
prisma monolithBOT
There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.
bleak spoke
especially if you play with an offcomp like 2 casters, CT will absolutely ruin the blob room pull - like ~100k+ until they die etc
also if you push the last boss fast and all three are up at any point it slams etc
fringe copper
That moment when the PB proc comes and the tank kite the mobs away #feelsbad
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
terse rune
!stats
terse rune
does echoing blades change the prio of FoK somehow?
spice surge
2eb makes you fok at 2 targets
terse rune
okay so 1 eb 3+ right
primal gazelle
Pb in sims also assumes it hits every target, which is almost literally never the case in m+
lost horizon
Eh with mass grip that happens more often than you'd think
primal gazelle
id say on avg pb only hits half of all my targets
esp if the tank pulls 2-3 packs and some are casters chillin in the back
its also sanguine week so lots of kiting
rip your pb
@terse rune i use 3x eb and i still mulitiate on 1 target, not sure if its best, it may actually be less damage but its a higher combo generator
opal osprey
Im having some issues dealing the dmg i sim, when i sim with only buffs, and 70 crit food(which is usually what i use) i sim 13,5k, i rarely go over 11k in raids, ive read up on the rotations and i feel like im doing them the way i should. this is my character: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/defias-brotherhood/Guzzlejox
fringe narwhal
Well are you comparing with dummies or boss encounters? Almost all encounters have some amount of down time
opal osprey
im simming with boss
opal osprey
i did both on dummies, and on bosses
royal lantern
if you sim 13,5k and do 11k in reality...thats good...? i dont see the problem
primal gazelle
sim includes lust, battle shout, dh magic etc
royal lantern
sim is also that you do EVERYTHING perfect
fringe narwhal
What boss specifically are you comparing with? There is no real patchwerk except zerg H fetid
royal lantern
and fetid has increased dmg take later in the fight sooo.....
fringe narwhal
Did you kill adds on fetid?
opal osprey
yes
fringe narwhal
Then all those fights have decent amount of switching and down time.
You won't hit sim dps
opal osprey
hmm fair enough
and another question, on warcraftlogs, i get 10% ish dps performance compared to other with similar ilvl
fringe narwhal
Is your name guzzlejox?
grave pagoda
Guys i havet a question regarding opener. I talent sub and tb. Wowheads guide says . Garrote, muti, rupture . Vendetta , tb. Muti and envenom intill u vanish and reapply garrote with the pandemic. I usally just. Garrote, rapture and garrote again for max cd om empowered garrote. Tjena garrote again for another 3cp , vandetta, tb and then mutilate and envenoms.
royal lantern
if you garrote outside of your subterfuge window you replace the empowerd garrote with a normal one
if you go garrote>rupture>garrote>vendetta you sit at 3 combo points, and toxicblade will put you at 4 so you can use envenom
grave pagoda
I know that. Byt i can garrote rupure garrote within the time frame
Yeah tjata what i do
But wowheads guide tells me otherwice
royal lantern
w8, how are you able too use 4 skills in subterfuge?
grave pagoda
Garrote, rup, garrote, Ven , toxic
Did i typer wrong above?
Type
Nope
Does icyveins have same opener as wowhead. Have not checked
violet yew
The rh guide will always be more up to date in all honesty.
grave pagoda
Okay. Thx
violet yew
Aye, looking at it. It has many different openers. Take your pick innit.
grave pagoda
Yeah u where right. I hade same rotation as them
Sry for the trubble.
Dunno why i checked wowhead first
fringe narwhal
@opal osprey fetid kill isnt in the logs so I can't look at it. But you cut off some of your buffed garrote off by refreshing early on vectis. You wasted about 10% of your combo points on vectis. And you can't really look at parses when your not flaking or putting. You also didn't always cast garrote coming out from stealth to be buffed. On Zeke your dots weren't always up. You missed TB and vendetta uses. You could of had another 2 vanish and cut off buffed garrote again. You wasted 16 combo points from just mutilate. Zul and mythrax looks the exact same advice as Zek. On mythrax you had 55% down time which looks unusually high. Need to work on maintaining your dots more
Also as a belf when energy starved you can use arcane torrent for a bit more energy iirc
I'm a troll so I can't remember
opal osprey
hmm thanks for the information, ill try to work on that
wispy apex
Is there a specific rotation if youre using echoing blade in m+?
short widget
I know it's way to early but... how is assassin looking for next raid?
I'm thinking about switching my main (trying to push m+ keys), but I can't enjoy roll the bones
bleak spoke
no changes if you use just 1 as far as i know @wispy apex
manic pike
@grave pagoda Both wowhead guide and ravenholdt show the same opener for tb and sub when using SS traits. You must have been looking at the wrong opener sequence
grave pagoda
Yeah u whete right. My bad
strange python
hello, can someone help me with some tips regardin assa? for mythic + and single target
fringe narwhal
@short widget tokoright about one thing. It's way too early
strange python
for M+ is better to have x2 EB and 1 SS ? or x2 SS and 1 EB ? and is is better to have a 385 mythic with bad trait then a 360 or 370 with good trait?
i have rainment of blighted tribe and best trait for assa is echoing blade and gorak thul mantle that has nothing personal as trait
and i have 360 gravehorn shoulders with SS and aberament chimaera chest with SS, but idk wich is better to use for m+
fringe narwhal
For the first question it depends on the tank pulling dungeon and affix. For the second question you'd need to sim
bleak spoke
Usually SS is hard to go wrong with even in big aoe
Gorak Tul’s also comes with blightborne infusion which is quite decent for aoe and competitive in st
Probably better than nothing personal unless you really need ST?
primal gazelle
i assume your rainment is 385?, use echo blades on that
strange python
yes
ok i will put now
but my 360 shoulders have SS on them, and i need to replace gorak thuls mantle..
and i have a 375 chest with shorouded trait...and if i keep the chest
spice surge
It has blightborne though, blightborne is good
strange python
i wont be able to get SS at all
so should i get x2 Echoing blades and Blightborne?
primal gazelle
what is your helm?
strange python
seafere cover with echoing blades or double dose
and i also have one with laser matrix
primal gazelle
with 2 EB 1 blightbourne, you would go MA and the rotation is a bit different than with ss and sub
strange python
what is MA?
primal gazelle
master assassin
strange python
oh
primal gazelle
id go with 2 ss 1 eb if i were you
its the safer route
easier to play and maximize dps
strange python
so use the 360 shoulders with x1 SS and jerksin of aberrant chimera with x1 SS and helm with 1x EB?
but my ilvl will go down because i lose x2 items with 390..
primal gazelle
if youre comfortable adjusting to a different rotation then 2 eb 1 blight can be more aoe dps
strange python
yes i can learn
but what doe sit change?
u dont dot anymore with garrote and what else
primal gazelle
you use master assassin instead of subterfuge, and open with fok fok fok instead of garrote garrote garrote
strange python
and then at 5 combo put rupture?
primal gazelle
yeah
primal gazelle
i use pb with 3+ eb, but thats just my preference
pseudo barn
So basically, ur loosing energy regen by spamming FoK
But i do agree on swapping to master assassin
primal gazelle
with MA i wont have the energy regen to keep up CT until 10+ secs into the pull, and my ST suffers due to having 3 aoe traits, so i use PB
pseudo barn
Pb is fine, just dont drop garrote.
strange python
so u keep garrote on only 1 target ?
pseudo barn
Pretty much
strange python
ok i will try like this thank so much
and for single target, is best to have x3 double dose right?
pseudo barn
Highest simming, alters opener slightly
Dont double garrote
One thing to mention, if you go 3 DD you're much more reliant on uptime.
As your dots lose value.
On the other hand, your haste increases its value
ancient copper
Question for all you CEs out there. Can you use Cloak to negate damage from Malignant growth on G'huun mythic?
frank sentinel
yes
ancient copper
Awesome, thanks @frank sentinel
pseudo barn
Depending on the haste, you'd go garrote - mutilate - mutilate- rupt, spam mutilate to 4 cp eviscerate. Rinse and repeat @strange python
pseudo barn
Cheers!
ancient copper
@pseudo barn What do you think about haste stacking in BFD?
ancient copper
Yeah, I think so too but I dont really see how stacking mastery is gonna be good enough
strange python
i have 20% haste for Double dose and 18% for m+
pseudo barn
So you're getting double traits right? Let's say ss + dd on a single piece of gear.
ancient copper
@strange python Your haste is like 1300 or smth? 😃
strange python
1149 when is 18%
1264 @ 20%
but i read u need crit for m+
i can put 3 traits of DD on my gear
pseudo barn
That basically puts more emphasis on dots strength rather than frequency.
18% is more than fine.
strange python
ok good, i will use the gloves that give me crit
ancient copper
Whats your simed dps with that?
timid tundra
I have 3xSS and a spare scent of blood same ilvl is the 3xSS or 2xSS and 1 scent better setup for M+
ancient copper
You dont run archive?
royal lantern
archive is crap for m+ when yu have other options
spice sorrel
You don't think the agi is worth it? You generally don't drop below 15 stacks if your tank is pulling efficiently
With some exceptions
spice surge
Archive is not crap, its good
timid tundra
Yer I have a few options I have an EB trait which I sometimes drop in on teeming weeks and vendetta trait which iv tested on tyrannical week but didn't find it that good I feel the 3x SS is better but just wondering wondering what everyone else thinks I do have archive as well but I tend to use that only in raid
spice surge
SS/EB/Sob is just better in most dungeons, but archives isnt bad
spice sorrel
So if I'm running 2xSS would you run an archive or EB for third trait?
ancient copper
Its good for chainpulling? Constantly at 20 stacks?
spice sorrel
If you're not running SS
Otherwise you lose out on a bunch of damage for subt/SS garrotes
timid tundra
So what's everyone's thoughts 3xSS or 2xSS and 1x Sob iv tested few combinations with EB and vendetta trait and SoB but the only one I can't see much difference in is the 2xSS and 1xSoB or 3xSS
primal gazelle
do not use vendetta trait in m+ lol
timid tundra
No I know that I had a go with it and it was shit don't even think it will be any good even in raids just wondering 3xSS or 2xSS and 1xSoB
primal gazelle
if youre not sacrificing any ilvls to use 3 ss, id go with that
timid tundra
No there all equal ilvl I thought so just wanted someone to back up my thoughts thanks
ancient copper
WEll, you can run SS and Archive...
primal gazelle
anyone know if envenom is buffed by its own EP that it creates?
wary ice
I'm pretty sure its not, thats why you try and clip the EP durations
sand ledge
Just simmed 18 768 using Dagger in the back Nothing personal and Archive. Seems like SS is falling behind
boreal canyon
Hey guys i have a question on assassination
i've simmed my dps using dungeon slice : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/WCVHH7oibJjj5KW6SyAAa
i cannot get anywhere near that dps on single target or multi
i'm thinking its my rotation
primal gazelle
i tried to filter EP within wclogs, and it shows 0 dmg done by envenom when EP buff isnt active , all envenom dmg was done within the EP buff - but that might be a wcl filter error im not sure
royal lantern
dagger in the back is a bit weird for sims
it sims a really high uptime and that you always hit the enemy from behind
surreal patio
What does EP stand for? I know it comes from envenom but I'm trying to find a weak aura for it
surreal patio
Ahh im stupid
sand ledge
I was using SS NP and Archive for 17946
surreal patio
xD
boreal canyon
so should i get a weak aura for DD uptime?
primal gazelle
with EP filtered out, theres 0 envenom damage
royal lantern
DD makes your mulitate sometimes hit harder, thats it
spice surge
If you're wondering why you're not doing 19k damage in a dungeon then its because you're not using pots and probably playing incorrectly
Besides, double dose is fairly awful in most dungeons
boreal canyon
hmm
royal lantern
its good for raids,probably our best trait, but not for m+
old knot
Is haste stat weight overvalued in dungeon slice? My stat weights are Haste 3.05, Mastery 2.73, and Critical Strike 2.58 in it. Currently at Haste 1139, Mastery 751, and Crit 937.
sturdy python
No, the dungeon slice just sims small groups that don't last very long
So just adjust accordingly
ruby idol
So yes it is overvalued
spice surge
Double dose is good for fetid, it just doesnt do anything on aoe
And m+ is mostly aoe
fringe narwhal
The issue with dungeon slice is most of the time is spent on cleave and the st boss
Not enough larger group pulls accounted for
ruby idol
Its fight duration thats the issue
sturdy python
Yup
ruby idol
The longer a trash pack the more sin favors crit and wants 0 haste
The trash in dungeon slice lasts no more than 30 seconds ever, and the big packs last less than 20
sturdy python
Not even enough time to get more than two ruptures out
primal gazelle
that might work for the majority of ppl thats running 10-12s, not 13+
ruby idol
Even then if youre running 10-12s your damage probably matches and that trash still lasts longer
Unless your 380+ trying to optimize for smashing 10s
Which i guess could be your situation
primal gazelle
im referring to the average casual, theyll be 380-383 ilvl at this point just from getting 1 380 piece every week
sturdy python
378 here...
wary ice
372
ruby idol
But at the same time, that player probably doesnt play their class well enough to actually do dmg
wary ice
only have 3 Azerite options
ruby idol
So again dungeon slice becones irrelevant
primal gazelle
haha
primal gazelle
then one could argue those type of players find dungeon slice helpful because they dont know enough to think on their own and decide whats good or not
sturdy python
Dont think generalizing is helpful at all. When people ask jus inform them the packs are small and don't last lonf
ruby idol
I guess thats true day. I still reccomend 6t 40 sec or 1 min patchwork if you are really trying to get weights for m+
sturdy python
Then they can make their own conclusions
Yeah I still Sim 6t
I think I've hit the wall on how far I can push m+ though. Sad days
primal gazelle
how are you still 378 tho lol
sturdy python
I don't raid mythic
In bags is 382 I think
But that's azerite gesr split between sin and outlaw
Sucks but oh well
And I've gotten like 12 380 capes lol
wary ice
wrist is definitely the feel-baddest drop tbh
capes close second but at least its central in mogs
sturdy python
As a slot definitely
ionic rose
is it worth to go DS this week for freehold?
ionic rose
cool, ty
bleak spoke
in what situation would it be worth to go deeper strategem?
like what type of pulls/dmg are its niche?
short stratus
So I just got Lion's Guile, according too Bloodmallet best Trinket. When I put it in Raidbots Top Gear Sim with my other Trinkets it tells me to wear Darkmon Deck: Fathoms and Construct Overcharger (385). Is this correct?
The Darkmoon Trinket is still better?
royal lantern
its not that good for assassination right now cus of how we generate combo points
short stratus
So I trust the Sim?
spice surge
Because it sims it with different ilvls
short stratus
on Raidbots
spice surge
If you look at herodamage a 370 dooms sims roughly the same as fathoms
Meaning that some variation with gear, either one might come out ahead
short stratus
This is so weird to me, I have Harlan Dice in 370, Lustrous Plumage 350, Plume of the Seaborne 355, Vanquished Ghuun 385 and still the Deck is simming better
bleak spoke
happens 
short stratus
Oh and Kul Tiran Canon 370
like every other trinket
yea, weird. but what can you do
I am not wearing Darkmoon, fuck that.
sturdy python
It's so good though 
short stratus
Ok you changed my mind I wear it.
Oh my god. Sorry guys. I simmed for Target Dummy.
Lets do it again 
strange python
Probably wont change a thing.
short stratus
aaaaaaaaaaaaaand you are correct lol
pale forum
!stats
shy axle
@short stratus fathoms is just very good for his ilvl, no problem with it. Normal
visual topaz
Do you guys use harlan's loaded dice over dead eye spy glass?
im simming the loaded dice but bloodmallet shows that dead eye is better
royal lantern
they do different stuff good
dead eye is bad for aoe cus you need too hit the target with the proc too get crit, dice is a flat boost too all secondarys, wich is good for aoe
visual topaz
true
primal gazelle
deadeye is really hard to optimize with
unless youre really pro with mouseover rupture macros
spice surge
Dead eyes is not like eye of command from legion
The stacks doesn't drop if you attack another target
And as long as you get the 5 stacks (which takes like 2-3 seconds max of hitting the target) and then hit it once more to refresh when it's almost over then you're good
alpine rain
Is it better to sim a trinket or to use the Herodamage / bloodmallet graphs?
primal gazelle
I wonder if they’re gonna nerf crit across the board by 5% like they’ve done in the past
Or we’re gonna have 45-50% crit next tier
safe matrix
harlans is a really good trinket
alpine rain
ill be using 2 Passive trinkets tho
safe matrix
you personal sims are more accurate
fringe narwhal
thats fine
alpine rain
since i got forest lords with a socket
fringe narwhal
It happens
alpine rain
also this fucking fathoms is simming the same as Harlan dice xD
primal gazelle
Forest lords is good
safe matrix
yeah, fathoms is really strong
alpine rain
i just wanto get rid of it allready haha
brave rampart
*strong trinkets that are passive are okay relative to the use counterparts
fringe narwhal
now if the difference is simming is .5% or less they are basically equal
brave rampart
You can get some dookie use trinkets.
fringe narwhal
and you can use your preference without much worry
alpine rain
i mean ive got Dooms wake 370 and the pvp Stat stick 370
brave rampart
PvP on use is p stronk.
alpine rain
thing is Harlan and Fathoms are outsimming PvP on use by 0.6 %
safe matrix
thats fine
brave rampart
Fathoms is vascular af for its ilevel, Harlans is just all around good.
fringe narwhal
I know how simming works but I don't feel like arguing honestly
safe matrix
yeah you can say rng for the class
but the bounds scale
and the sims take it into account
solid nova
Margin of error is 0.05%
weary arrow
lets say I have two different daggers, with different stats, one is 385 and the other 380 does it matter which hand (main hand vs off hand) I put the daggers in to maximize DPS
ripe nimbus
Put the higher ilvl one in main hand
toxic scroll
german assa rogue here?
royal lantern
yeha, wath's up
desert vault
so that Ancient's Bulwark trait is decent for aoe?
and how do you sim for dungeon? just set dungeon slice and 6t 30s?
half timber
just came back from a short hiatus; are bursting bloods better atm then agi pots? heard a few mixed things
dark crag
Not that i know
safe matrix
Definitely not on AoE
You can sim it for single target though, simulation settings lets you pick which potions to use
elder merlin
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7YPk5nyfzg6EXrxehZkanb
looking to finally get cutting edge tonight and i was thinkin of changing all my gems to (8 sockets) is it worth? ill lose only 75 dps but does 320 vers even make a difference as far as helping survive?
gems to versatility*
lost sentinel
where exactly does exsang fit in on trash pulls, aside from bursting a priority target down?
icy ember
well 320 vers is like 4%, so you think 4% is going to help you survive? 
probably better off to use feint at the correct times
fringe narwhal
I have 200 and am at 1.2%
icy ember
i was being generous apparently
fringe narwhal
so it's only like 2.5% but that is less healing
if it's only 75 dps imo it's worth but that is a personal choice
wet dagger
Correct feint and crimson vial usage and you shouldn't be having survivability issues on that boss
And definitely not to the point that like 2-3% vers is going to save you
prime stirrup
Crimson vial no longers reduces dmg taken. its unfortunate we cant cheese with that anymore. but feint does still work for aoe blasts
steep vessel
dark crag
Welcome in 2019
pearl widget
Dagger in the back or Twist the Knife?
lost horizon
Sim it
But keep in mind that with dagger you gotta be behind boss to get full value
empty tide
thats a nerf
lost horizon
yikes
empty tide
NPersonal nerfed too
lost horizon
does that mean it won't interact with exsang?
empty tide
exactly
kindred chasm
unsure, PTR download is up, realms should be going up tonight or tomorrow so we can mess with it
civic palm
Don't trust initial PTR datamining.
kindred chasm
may just be a tooltip correction ^
lost horizon
good point
kindred chasm
nice little buff to Echoing Blades tho
civic palm
Also garrote ticks every two seconds already > _> so...
kindred chasm
yeah, it may really just be that they're lining the tooltip up to make more sense
because at the moment, its a little ambiguous
civic palm
Yeah, IIRC the garrote tooltip, and a lot of DoT tooltips don't specific how many times they tick.
kindred chasm
it just says "over 18 seconds"
civic palm
Yeah
summer valve
it's definitely a tooltip clarification
it works that way now, deals the bonus damage on every tick of garrote
kindred chasm
sorry for the spook 👻
summer valve
but the way the tooltip reads it sounds like it just adds that amount of damage over 18s instead of every tick
kindred chasm
exactly ^
safe matrix
tick rate scales with haste though
safe matrix
Nah, just the wording sounds ambiguous
because per second implies a set value
unless they include haste in the scaling
but thats more of a problem for the future
civic palm
The potential PTR tooltip update for SS already sounds better than what we have.
shy escarp
kindred chasm
looks like a lot of these "changes" are just the PTR catching up with hotfixes, too
wowhead updated the post and removed hotfixed things, just kidding
woeful moth
Shrouded Suff is still the best right now?
merry vault
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
civic palm
There's no news > _>
primal gazelle
got me excited for nothing smh
woeful oriole
so... I've got overwhelming power x2... does it stack twice as fast or does each stack just count for more?
primal gazelle
under 1k io, 2/8 mythic but 388 ilvl
what a god
@sturdy python this couldve been u
primal gazelle
L2 RNG
leaden seal
Cast vendetta before or aftet the first Garrote / rupture from stealth?
Do you have to precast it to snapshot garrote dmg with it, or is it retroactive to the bleeds
sturdy python
retroactive
silent silo
So subterfuge with ss sims like 50 dps lower than ma. Tiny difference i know but the majority of rouges are running ss, does it matter what i run or is ss the master race?
tribal marlin
If that's true, it probably mean SS damage will be separated damage, this mean it will not scale on mastery anymore
neither scale with exs or haste ... seems like a huge nerf
vocal harbor
2x SS, or 1x SoB 1x SS for fortify week?
gilded crest
that SS stuff means you cant extend the duration with pandemic anymore?
tawny shell
@tribal marlin you think?
solar rose
Pretty positive it's just a tooltip change
robust spire
What talent will be best in bfd during trying period?
low junco
trying period? first time hearing stuff like that
solid nova
Progression is the word you're looking for
robust spire
Right, thanks
low junco
we have to wait til then, cant really say anything blindfolded
testing is the key to success
hard eagle
are exsanguinated dots fall to same pandemic rules as normal ones?
patent topaz
dont refresh exsang dots
steep obsidian
^
hard eagle
so only refresh dots when exsang dots completely fall off?
is there any proof/test/logs to approve that?
hybrid thicket
GUYS!!!! YOU WONT BELIEVE ME WHAT HAPPENED 😮 NO JOKE
vast forum
2.5 years of exsg existing + legion alpha/beta should be enough to figure out how exsg works
quick ice
in fairness, the way it works with haste is new to BfA (for obvious reasons)
though that's not really relevant to refreshing it I guess
vast forum
True
I mean, exsg doubles the tick speed of your current dots, idk how it's not intuitive to let em fall off before reapplying 🤷
quick ice
if people thought you could retain it through pandemic or something? idk
sturdy whale
So nerfs to a lot of azerite traits or just tooltip updates on the ptr?
quick ice
I think they're fixing tooltips that have been hotfixed?
shy dust
Are there notes for them?
steep obsidian
there is no class design notes at all in the ptr
and i wouldnt expect much class stuff in a .5 patch
if there is a tuning pass coming it will come after heroic raid week ptr is irrelevent for that
tidal gorge
Sheeet, I need to sim everything in my bags I'm so close https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jtWnR4hCwBg5ZREBjKi2Yu
floral frost
nerf
Shrouded Suffocation nerf
Shrouded Suffocation Garrote cast from Stealth generates 2 additional Combo Points and deals [ 39 [new:33 * (1 + 27 / 100.2 * (1 + 0.2) * (1 + (170% of Spell Power) / 100.2).2) ] additional damage.
every 2 sec for 18 sec.
steep obsidian
that is .1.5 though right?
floral frost
Twist the Knife also nerf
steep obsidian
they wont change shit until raid comes out
floral frost
yes
floral frost
is it worth keeping titan residuum for when the new ilvl comes out? or will we get another type of currency when the second season starts?
bronze kelp
Keep it
steep obsidian
i mean
the items cost 10x as much for the next tier of them
even if you save everything you won't be able to buy much if anything
red lynx
still be a lot closer than starting with nothing
floral frost
do we have the prices for the new items?
winter valve
Few thousand
lament dove
I have like 350 lol
I'm thinking of buying some pieces for offspecs and try those out
I have literally no chest piece for the other 2 specs^^
hot flume
So the nerf for SS trait is that bad to make Sin not viable in a MM+ and exsang build not competitive compared to double douse in raids ?
@gusty kestrel who are you referring to ?
Well my sentence seems pretty clear no ?
golden relic
hot flume
Chill mate, I didn't go crazy, I just asked a simple question cuz I wasn't sure if it was really that big nerf or not. Actually you are the one going crazy for a simple question
summer valve
it's most likely not even a nerf and just a tooltip update
lament dove
that could be, since until now it was not clearly mentioned that it gives the extra dmg to the tick
hot flume
Meh you are just overreacting like a drama queen to a simple question. But it's okay buddy, no problem for me, thanks for your answer though
fast thunder
What to play in BoD?
low junco
what is this nerf everyone is talking about, can someone link me smth
floral frost
rogues will be worst than ferals
latent field
Blizzard is taking away our trinket slots - only rogues tho
floral frost
latent field
🌝
latent field
Scroll up to ektos post
bleak spoke
Even if they nerf SS by whatever amount would the second ring of traits basically propel you forwards far enough so you probably won’t even notice it?
low junco
HMM
thats like a 2nd nerf to ss?
wasnt there like a nerf 3 months ago
with 40% damage reduce to ss
grizzled jay
That might just be a tooltip fix. Dont fear
low junco
i mean even with the nerfs people will still use at least 1xSS
royal lantern
EU scrub that was asleep like a normal human, wath did i miss with ss?
hard monolith
"Shrouded Suffocation nerf
Shrouded Suffocation Garrote cast from Stealth generates 2 additional Combo Points and deals [ 39 [new:33 * (1 + 27 / 100.2 * (1 + 0.2) * (1 + (170% of Spell Power) / 100.2).2) ] additional damage.
every 2 sec for 18 sec."
So it's SP instead of Versa, did not proof read the math but I'm just guessing it's the same.
royal lantern
looks like a tooltip update tbh? and not that the trait itself changes
grizzled jay
It used to be versa when they first updated the tooltip
royal lantern
i mean, it is weird right now cus it says ´´garrote from stealth 2 more cp and XYZ more dmg´´
and when i tell people that the trait is actually really good they look at it and ask why cus it only gives some dmg, cus the tooltip doesnt say that the dmg is for each tick
why should it stop too scale with versatility
isnt everything you do supposed too scale with vers anyway....?
hard monolith
I mean they could blast it and make it scale with Mastery. 😃
Not sure what to run this week though. Last week I did 1xSS and 2xDD for M+ dungeons (I don't raid). I'm almost considering 1xSS 2xEB this week.
fast nacelle
ummm am i drunk or do we get 2x ss 3x DD 1x NP azerites from the first 3 bosses in this raid?
regal tundra
2nd trait from 2nd and 3rd boss are Scent and Echoing Blades
unkempt karma
Go blizz
quick ice
think they decided 6 traits meant each trait should be worth less, probably
lethal heart
well
its obv they should do that
or power creep would be off the roof
adn they wouldnt be able to control it
woeful field
is it worth it to take 3x Heed My Call over 3 Single Traits for M+ ?
low junco
🤔
lethal heart
probably yes @woeful field
modest oyster
caring about other people, top kek
lethal heart
because thing is
lethal heart
your aoe traits are useful on both aoe and st
whereas your st trait be it g utripper
isnt that useful on aoe
modest oyster
Just nerfing the top traits though and not the middle of the pack ones is just going to make them more meaningless
Sure some traits will always be better, but idk, just seems like if they're worried about power creep they should just apply a blanket nerf to all traits so that the balance is the same rather than just nerfing the top ones
Wait and see sims I guess to see how much has changed
carmine lynx
they are just adjusting the numbers , you'll have more stats to compensate , it's not really that big of a deal imo
carmine lynx
numbers tuning so dps doesn't jump up to astronomical numbers with the stat gains from higher ilvl gear
modest oyster
Yeah I'm aware, I'm not sure you're getting what I'm saying though, I would rather have 4 top traits than 10 mediocre ones, so my worry is by only applying this to the 4 top ones, they're just going to make the azerite traits less meaningful
But yeah let's wait and see
carmine lynx
you're better off using the top 4 traits even with the number changes tbh
low junco
mmo-champion as tisu said
modest oyster
modest oyster
ofc, but it's frustrating if those top 4 constantly fluctuate from a gearing point of view
not saying that'll happen
but it's a possibility if blizzard just apply nerfs to the top simming traits and buffs to the lower ones, just makes everything mediocre
lethal heart
@hollow cloud 
vast forum
I don't mind the idea of all traits having similar value... Might be harder to get full bis but will also "remove" completely useless traits
hollow cloud
@lethal heart
strange python
I have a question: In that week, Exanguinate + crimson tempest or only Exanguinate? I mean for a M+ 14/15
lethal heart
play crimson tempest in freehold/motherlode/underrot
strange python
The other only with Exanguinate, right?
lethal heart
you go with exsang
strange python
Thank you so much
lethal heart
pretty much always
but its w/e
toxic blade vs exsang isnt big of a deal
the only thing that is for exsang is
that its longer cd and toxic blades forces you to hit one target
so its not ideal in dungeon scenario
even in somewhat aoe pull you could slam vendetta/exsang on big target and still keep dotting/hitting something else
strange python
Yep but in a low key (like 10-11) is hard to use exanguinate cause mob die so fast
fringe narwhal
Yes but in a low key it really doesnt matter that much what you take if your going to crush it either way
echo geyser
Any sin rouges know how much the SS change is ?
Shrouded Suffocation Garrote cast from Stealth generates 2 additional Combo Points and deals [210 * (1.27 * (1 + Versatility) * 1.14)] additional damage every 2 sec for 18 sec.
ilvl 300 trait ^
spice surge
Its months away
dark crag
The question is, is it still in garrotte or a separate debuff
lost tree
when is the estimate to hit that patch?
fringe narwhal
Some time between the next raid and the mini raid probably
royal lantern
i gues it is just a tooltip update because right now the ss tooltip is......not that good
shell ruin
Little question? Shadowmeld with SS trait gave the extra combopoint and the silence if you talent iron wire but not the extra dmg right?
sturdy python
It benefits from SS but not subterfuge
Unless you meld then restealth which isn't possible in boss fights
sturdy python
And SS bonus damage
shell ruin
hm k, tested it on a dummy today. normal steath garrote do about 60 dmg, with shadowmeld 40k
so i thought it dosennt work
dark crag
Don't look at overall dmg, look at ticks
fringe narwhal
Ya they are saying you won't get the stealth buff as well so the first one should be stronger
The stealth talent
shell ruin
the ticks are different also. 4,3k out of stealth, 2,3k out of shadowmeld
shell ruin
yeah ok im braindead, get it. sorry 😄
modest garnet
Hi guys. Opener question. I have one SS trait I'm using right now. Why dont you garote garote rupture to get a full 5 cp rupture out that's empowered to use with exsanguinate. Seems like all the guides say garote rupture garote
Which only gives a 3cp rupture for the opener
tepid fractal
gar - rap - gar and then 5 cp rapture and then exsg
oblique jackal
is sin still top for raiding and mythic plus?
sturdy python
You get one more empowered garrote tick by g>rup>g
spice surge
I got an upgrade this chest again @gusty kestrel my simdps is giga now
sturdy python
Depends on fight and key blade
spice surge
Wasting all of my rng on pre-raid gear
tepid fractal
nah just put highest ilvl gear. bfa in full grace
modest garnet
Tawny don't you lose the empowered rupture though by not casting from stealth
sturdy python
Not sure what you mean
tepid fractal
u dont empower rapture lol
modest garnet
Ah OK then. New rogue this week so I don't know it all yet
tepid fractal
2nd talent in 2nd tier always. almost always. totally not night stalker talent
sturdy python
You're technically wasting energy by using the 3 cp rup but since you will be refreshing it before exsang anyway it's worth
For now, nightstalker has been great in the past wouldn't be surprised if it comes back sometime
tepid fractal
dont think so since garrote and envenom have same mastery multiplier
modest garnet
And always let empowered garote and exsang bleeds fall all the way off before refreshing right
sturdy python
Yes
