I thought they said in legion that they disliked breath build and would try to go away from it
#assassination
safe matrix
safe matrix
Yikes
safe matrix
Oh yeah it was ridiculous, like most top damage abilities were auto attacks/pet autos
I don't know if it still is
lost horizon
i don't like the idea of extending shit out like that tbh personally
but i think it's cool for some gameplay diversity
like Spriest in legion pushing to 60+ stacks without surrender, that maintain style is cool
and is at least unique compared to just building+spending for every other spec
weak rose
breath pretty much has a max of 25s atm which i think is okay
lost horizon
oh yeah that's why i'd never main my spriest
ever
but at least it felt different
i only started playing in legion so when i actually messed around with it in ToS/ABT (Spriest)
it was pretty sick
i offered to sit for coven prog though, cause melee....
ended up filling an absence on my spriest
my rogue never got a coven kill, feelsbad
surrender or convinced people to not remove boneshield whatevers?
nice
see like that's sick
yeah i honestly think that's a really cool playstyle
civic palm
It's neat but prone too heavily to disruption.
lost horizon
yeah again absolutely, which is why i'd never want to main it
but i still think i'd rather see cool shit like that for different specs
than just chi/holypower/soulshards/combopoints repeated over again
can we add a PS onto that: with current normalized PB?
civic palm
NEVER COMING BACK YOU WEIRDO
lost horizon
cause fuck how swingy PB dmg was
eh reduced maybe but
the RNG was def still there
mostly for like way late in ABT with miniscule kill times though
civic palm
No trinket though 😛
lost horizon
my fondest memory of sin in legion was 4+2 boots+wrists on coven
outer pivot
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
outer pivot
😛
marble harbor
hey, pretty new ass here, and rogue in general, i set up my bars and it all worked well until i took the subterfuge talent, which force me into the stealth bar for 3sec so i can't use my non-stealth bar abilities, (for ex my bind 1 is toxic blade on the normal bar, and sap on the stealth bar) how do you guys handle it
spice surge
I do not use the stealthbar at all
marble harbor
that's one way of doing it, but i feel like you eat up a lot more binds
royal lantern
well, you can turn off stealthbar, or you put your important abilitys into it
spice surge
Rogues have (relatively) few binds anyway, as long as you don't have too many pvp focus macros. Atleast enough for me with only shift modifiers
royal lantern
like, put garrote rupture envenom sap and cheapshot in it
dapper sundial
What mine looks like. Stealth bar is bottom version, top is regular.
spice surge
Distract is usable outside of stealth
marble harbor
so basically put the stealth-needed abilities on a general bar ?
spice surge
And surprisingly more useful than you might think
royal lantern
the only ability that only work in stealth are cheapshot and sap
lost horizon
Distract pats for days
marble harbor
is there even a use for distract in pve ?
royal lantern
let people running down a cliff in world pvp is glorius man
stop patrolls
reduce aggro range
thats distract in pve
dapper sundial
i have distract using a 2nd shift bind for not in stealth
i use mmo mouse as well so ymmv going with something similar
marble harbor
OR ! or, i just don't take subterfuge 
lost horizon
If you're looking to play rogue, figure out stealth stuff
royal lantern
subterfuge is the best talent in that tier for most people right now
MA can be better, but its pretty rare tbh
dapper sundial
i have 3 390 shrouded suff pieces so that's not really an option for me 
marble harbor
yeah i'm just gonna sit down and figure it out
thanks for the inputs
oh yeah another quick question, i use a general weakaura that was last updated september 15, was there any changes since that makes it so i have to find one that's up to date ?
lost horizon
May want to consider updating the triggers
But could probably just leave it on legacy aura
Without knowing what your WAs are tracking specifically I can't say whether or not it's truly out of date
lost horizon
Personally I'd recommend figuring out at least the basics for WAs so that you can make simple ones yourself, and tweak others
marble harbor
i know the basics and i could do it on my own but that'd take me a while
lost horizon
I like to have a particular layout, so I could never really be comfortable using someone else's full set up
So maybe it's just my own issue but
I'd say maybe find someone else's group that's up to date?
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lost horizon
If you use @civic palm's WAs just DM them and complain if they're out of date
marble harbor
i'm like you i like my comfort ^^ i use this guy's wa on every class since he's been making those
i'll try afenar's one, he's usually my back-up guy for wa
lost horizon
If you're dead set on that dude's set up you'll probably have to go in and see what's going on for each yourself
marble harbor
@civic palm update 😠
lost horizon
Which would require at least some decent understanding of the class
But honestly you should be fine
Nothing drastic has changed since BFA launch
Mostly just trait tweaking
royal lantern
yeha, using afenar since launch and everything is fine cus nothing changed that affects it
soo....you go from rogue knockoff too real rogue?
lost horizon
It probably is, not that I've played feral much
coarse knot
Well you do have empowered bleeds
lost horizon
You do get some snapshotting with subterfuge, NS and exsang
coarse knot
SS
marble harbor
like snapshot bleeds ?
marble harbor
what's SS again ?
zenith notch
as if you actually did any maintenance with BotA
coarse knot
Shrouded suffocation
lost horizon
Shrouded suffocation, a trait
marble harbor
oh yeah subterfuge, but it's only empowered by being slteath, not by damage increasing buffs ?
zenith notch
BotA was just something you'd completely ignore when it happened and get frustrated when it didn't, because your overall dmg would be lower
lost horizon
Dmg buffs affect bleeds dynamically
Not snapshot
Vendetta on the target will increase dmg on it by 30% for it's duration, no longer
It buffs bleeds whether they're applied before or during, and that buff stops when vendetta stops
coarse knot
Always try to have empowered bleeds up for vend
lost horizon
Applications of garrote from the subterfuge window however are snapshot for the increased dmg
Same as any bleed that you've exsanguinated
marble harbor
oh i had another question about crimson tempest, so as far as i understood, you use it in 2+ target situation, but that's just to apply bleed right then envenom as a finisher ? is there a number of target where you should always use crimson tempest as a finisher ?
lost horizon
Marginally
zenith notch
Btw, which trait you using on Outter Ring? SS, DD or NP?
Both DD and NP sims higher but I see people still stacking SS for TB build.
royal lantern
DD/NP are good for most raidfights(not always, but pretty much best too-go traits) SS right now is the M+ king
EB is good when you have a shitton of adds that are alive for a long time(big pulls in fort weeks in m+ etc...)
spice surge
The main reason peopel are using 1x SS with tb is that its easy to get
Any combo that isnt 2x archives+1ss requires you to have been lucky from your weekly chest and/or to spend your residium
vast forum
ocean sparrow
I run 2xSS and 1xarchive for raids and 2xSS and 1xEB in m+....because I only have like 5 pieces of azerite gear....#newrogueproblems.
spice surge
Pvp cant get you SS shoulders or head, only chest
Cant even get a SS helm from emisarries
maiden raptor
Did i miss something or is crimson tempest better than toxic bomb now? Cause i checked warcraftlogs and saw most top sin players use crimson tempest
scenic nacelle
Depends on the dungeon and the week
strange python
toxic bomb 
maiden raptor
I see. One more thing. What would be the ideal azerite trait set up for raiding. 2x double douse and 1x shoruded suffocation or something else?
celest cobalt
Hello, I'm trying to get better with my assassination in m+, would I be able to show some logs and get some feedback if possible? Thanks 😃
hollow stone
Just link em, people will look
rose violet
Sure, but m+ is not so much about the right rotation but rather cc usage and stuff like that so you can pull more
Doing aoe dmg is quite simple
celest cobalt
It says to keep my dots up more (only had around 80%) and another big thing is I don't use vendetta during packs (when it could be used and be up again for the next boss). Anything else you guys see? Thanks 😃
Oh also, I think my galecallers boon useage wasn't great, I didn't really know good times to use it so I'm working on that too
wary anchor
is pb this week fine or is CT way better?
sturdy python
Gonna depend on key and how big you pull
wary anchor
not that big key, 13 siege and its pug so smaller pulls
sturdy python
CT would be nice on trash before second and third boss but the trash before first you can't use it because of bolstering
So up to you
bleak spoke
I think seli said to use pb in siege
obtuse kestrel
Hello assassination rogues, first time here, took a while to look around the guides and rules page, but, the only guide link i could find was for the RH guide that looks to be a bit out of date by the titles and patch # description, can anyone point me in the direction of a fairly up-to-date reference point? Also looking to find that website where you can see players gear traits stats etc, I can't seem to recall it. THank you in advance!
sturdy python
Sounds like a plan to me
The RH guide is fine, there's been no changes. Can also use wowhead
obtuse kestrel
ok, thank you!
rose violet
depends on how you pull
but in general for those dungeons with packs containing non-enlite and elite mobs you want pb
and for tos ofc cause pulls are not big enough
wary anchor
do u guys take tb in m+?
rose violet
you can take tb during tyrannical weeks for tos if you're not using ss traits
for everything else you want exsanguinate for the energy gain which helps in aoe situations
crimson condor
hey guys - any reason why sim would tell me to not have a +40 agility socketed? it 's recommending all +40 haste sockets when all my gear is already haste heavy
sturdy python
Haste is probably higher weight than agility
Not that unusual
Agility may or may not get more value in aoe situations tbough
crimson condor
23% haste without reorig array - crazy it's recommending more lol
sturdy python
Agi probably the safest gem if you swap specs a lot
sturdy python
It doesn't pull big or high health enemies so not enough time for VW energy to push haste down
Just depends on how the person pulls m+ whether that's decent or not
sturdy python
You're getting into feelycraft territory
rose violet
especially this week
sturdy python
Dungeon slice is the best we got sim wise, just need to make smart adjustments for how you play
vestal wren
dungeon slice is a good estimate
vestal wren
iirc dungeon slice might overvalue the st part of the fight by a very small amount
rose violet
the thing is that dungeon slice doesn't value the fact that 80% of a dungeon is trash
so the thing you spend the most time on
vestal wren
🤔
it spawns adds for the majority of sim, so i would call that statement not good
iirc overall the boss time is ~35% in top m+ runs while sim estimates ~40%
sturdy python
It does, the thing it doesn't do is let the trash live long enough for certain abilities or stats to take over. However, as many have said there's not really a way to make it perfect for every situation
vestal wren
there is no way to optimize your gear perfect for any situation either ^^
sturdy python
It's probably pretty equivalent to most pugs doing 10s on tyrannical
Yes of course
rose violet
yea makes sense
vestal wren
to be fair its not a "fit it all" solution
tho assuming it is quite close to the top 100 logs in add/boss time it seems to be okay for an estimate
adds might die earlier/later in m+, tho that comes down to affix/strategie/pulls/dungeon
we had a discussion how to make it more dynamic, with some (a lot) ideas but not sure if there was a conclusion
rose violet
i mean it serves its purpose
and then if you take m+ a bit more serious you have to find out what works for your group and the way you pull
paper heron
two galecallers questions: 1, you hold exsang for galecallers? 2, if mobs get pulled away from galecallers do i follow or stay in it
paper heron
ah i checked ravenholdt site, not pins, thanks
sturdy python
Unless holdlng lt wont cause you to lose a cast of exsang but thats a super short flght
paper heron
lots of m+ bosses are under 2:15 i think
but then i guess it needs to also be long enough to hold exsang and get full duration on it
vestal wren
issue with the m+ style maybe come from wrong cd alignments, tho rogue peforms quite well in that belong
sturdy python
Well your 3rd exsang shoulkd be around 2:20? so shouldnt be an lssue holdlng lt for a 2:15 flght
But thats pretty speclflc
On CD youd have lt at 5s, 50s, 1:35s, 2:20
Holdlng for GCB 5s, ~1:00, 1:45, 2:30
paper heron
yeah
i mean i mostly just run med lvl pug keys so who knows how fast a boss will die lol
paper heron
seems like just not holding it is the safe play
sturdy python
Yes
paper heron
i fucking hate playing with the trinket, most tanks are maniacs constantly moving everything
sturdy python
Good thlng wlth exsang ls lt snapshots the haste so you get most of the value
When you have exsang up anyway
strange python
So i have a question. Why is Sub still being played over Assassin? Is it just bc its still quite good for some dungeons?
sturdy python
lts not ln my experlence
paper heron
its cause the sub sounds are so satisfying
sturdy python
Sub was only good when people played around lt ln M+, a lot of that power ls gone and lts more vlable ln normal pugs now but Sln ls stlll very powerful
And has perma slows
And sub ls amazlng ln ST too
vestal wren
any source of sub beeing played ?
spice surge
Sub was played a lot at the very high end, before 8.1
strange python
Okay that i guess make sense. I just was curious on why sub is still played in m+ as well as some raid scenes. I see it still being played but i know most are Assassin now
paper heron
i see musclebrah play it a good amount
spice surge
But right now its barrely used, still on the frontpage of raider.io
Its just even more niche
paper heron
but probably the same reason flawless plays outlaw so much, just for funzies
vestal wren
if you look at top dungeon runs on raider.io keep in mind to only look at runs that where on 13. dec or later
strange python
Flawless is just nuts with Outlaw. Ran a couple plus 10s with him in pugs and he just rolls the dmg no matter what spec he is playing.
vestal wren
outlaw is good tbh
spice surge
Waycrest and shrine are also very good for sub
royal lantern
brag about that shit somewhere else
strange python
maybe just trash player :///
strange python
Are you talking about mythic or heroic here
velvet kernel
both
our logs are worse for both
maybe we are just playiong worse
and have longer kill times
sturdy python
More likely less people are doing the raid and throwing the percentiles off
Also, pre 8.1 probably included a lot more parses from progression kills
royal lantern
people buying full BiS traits for fights etc....
high logs where a bit rng based cus some classes(like sin rogue) had the best azerite trait for raids locked behind the weekly chest
velvet kernel
hmmm
i guess so
and i really was not trying to brag 😄
i was just concerned in case i started doing something wrong
or soemthing changed
lost coral
Why are so many ppl running one SS with Toxic Blade?
royal lantern
opener with SS is bae
royal lantern
less people, and more people with best traits for that fight cus you can buy 2xdd as an example now
sturdy python
Would've gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you meddling kids
glacial grotto
how does hidden blades interact with echoing blades
glacial grotto
ok good to know thanks
primal gazelle
but echo blade increase fok dmg, which is further amplified by hidden blades
sick cradle
Does Azerite traits that cause bleeds work with our mastery?
sturdy python
Have an example?
lunar merlin
I feel like he could only mean gutripper
scenic nacelle
Probably Dagger in the back
sick cradle
I was thinking about Dagger, but same logic should be applied for Rezan's fury
Gutripper isn't a bleed is it? It's just straight up physical damage
dense delta
Guys, I'm sitting on 8.6% haste and 28%crit/36mast - sometimes I'm just starving on energy. sometimes i dont even reg enough energy for 3 g's for opener inbetween two trashpacks. Is 9% just too low? on bosses it's a pain as well...
on big pulls it's easy
do we have like a minimum amount of haste??
for m+ btw
opaque grotto
Don’t think you really want a ton of haste in m+
Since the energy regen from bleeds makes haste’s value go down
lost horizon
It might seem counterintuitive, but if you're low on energy with CP and the last mob in a pack is about to die
You can rupture it so that it refunds on death, for energy going into the next pack
lost horizon
Pretty much
Always wanna dump CP before going into next pack
I play with a bit higher haste and have no real issues
You may want to consider trying with a bit more haste to see how it feels, but at least between packs there's things you can optimize
dense delta
i'll try 10% - but the advice about the dumpin of cps will help a lot. thx mate
vapid moth
@dense delta at 8.6% haste youre always gonna be struggling with energy if theres only 1 target. 15 is where stuff starts to feel nice
@uneven bolt are you simming with reorigination or not
uneven bolt
no
vapid moth
it might be a bit low. If so it might be due to the stats and traits you have
uneven bolt
oh shit , sry, didnt saw, was on 5 with reorigination
vapid moth
but does any of your azerite gear have laser matrix or archive
uneven bolt
yeah, got the helm from vectis, but atm using EB instead of archive, maybe thats why? 🤔
vapid moth
that would bring it up about 800 dps at least
quaint flare
uneven bolt
celest cobalt
Hey, I'm trying to use exsanguinate in m+ and I was wondering if there was a guide on using it in like an opening rotation for a pack?
crimson condor
good question - im a toxic blade user trying to switch over to exsang but feel like im doing it wrong
languid gate
Does any1 still have the Bag of Tricks WA? Where it says in /say "Poison Bomb fading in 3..2..1"
crimson maple
is overcharger really as good as the sims make it out to be? Or should we be using a more consistent trinket for m+?
lost tree
as far as i know its pretty shit
ruby idol
You just slam exsang when youre low energy on trash and go back to what you were doing
Typically its your first rupture
bleak spoke
should it be on the third empowered garrote
sturdy python
Better to exsang an empowered garrote, yes
strange lichen
!trinkets
ruby idol
How dows exsanging an empowered garrote do anything on a pack that the garrotes are gonna fall off and not be reapplied anyway
When you can exsang a mob with a rupture and garrote or just a rupture which leads to either more energy, or a longer period of increased energy regen
Which is the purpose of exsang on trash
I guess we'll break it down. Ggg ct fok rupture exsang then go about your day. Its irrelevant which target you rupture really. Typically if theres a prio target youre rupturing that before the exsang so you can reapply a rupture sooner to funnel more dmg into that bad boy
shy dust
what are the recommended talents for AOE?
civic palm
Depends on average pull size.
lost horizon
and how well grouped they are
safe matrix
also if you need single target damage or not
safe matrix
I think you meant to put that in #off-topic 
civic palm
This isn't the KPOP channel.
civic palm
heheheh
primal gazelle
anyone else think its interesting how the icon for assassin is the same as the icon for eviscerate, which is a sub ability 🤔
safe matrix
no because it was the symbol for assassination long before evisc became sub exclusive
primal gazelle
good to know
steep obsidian
i don't even think envenom was a thing in vanilla
that was along time ago so i might be wrong
i don't really remember anyone really playing pve sin seriously until ulduar
vapid moth
Lmao I wouldnt be surprised. Envenom is such a stupid name for the ability tbh
untold current
Im sure I'm late here but outside of fetid, where is everyone getting their 2nd EB peice from?
dark crag
Emissary, m+ chest before rework
Never de/scrap high pieces, we never know what can happen
Next season will be hilarious, people scrap left and right and trait gets nerfed
Assa for boss and big add damage, outlaw to pad on small adds
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fading harness
Is there a specific rule for using toxic blade? I did a couple parse runs for heroic uldir and i’m parsing 90+ but the ilvl parse is in the 50-60 range
And I’m wondering if it’s because I’m using toxic blade incorrectly
For the most part if it comes up off cooldown i’ll check my energy and if it’s low i’ll save my energy so I don’t waste any gcds during the toxic vlade window
If it’s like 70+ energy i’ll use it immediately
If it’s not i’ll wait 1-3 seconds then use toxic blade
spice surge
Dont delay tb
fading harness
Why shouldn’t i delay tb if I can’t use any abilities if I’m energy starved
The nature damage increase seems huge
spice surge
You shouldnt be starved when its ready
Plan ahead instead of reacting, delaying tb makes you miss casts of it
fading harness
Yea i get that, but sometimes it happens
spice surge
Its better to not get a perfect tb than to delay it
fading harness
Hmm
spice surge
Especially if you have to wait as long as 5 seconds
fading harness
Okay
Guess I just gotta figure out the window where i need to stop spamming mutilate then
I try to build 3-4 combo before tb comes up
I guess i need to do it a little earlier so ill have the energy for using tb on cooldown
Never thought about that
spice surge
11, and 12/13, as you get one on pull as well Tisumi
lone junco
Tb hits fairly well too. It's not just the buff.
fading harness
Thats allot of empowered envenoms
Tb crits pretty well
Its like a 3 point envenom
spice surge
Pandemic is just leeway.
If you refresh rupture at 7.2 you get 31.2 seconds of rupture (7.2+24) whereas if you refresh it at 5 you get 29 (5+24), so you dont miss out on anything by not doing it exactly at pandemic timer
Btw have you gotten the fabled 20k sim as assa yet tisumi?
civic palm
garrote is 5.4 btw not that it matterrrrrrrrrrrs
untold current
flat ocean
Can anyone show me a 90%+ log where they cast TB on cooldown?
sturdy python
He held it for 10 s around 1m30s mark and i assume that was to make sure it hit fetid at 50% or maybe an add
But all in all he didnt hold it enough to lose a cast
flat ocean
he held one for like 40 seconds at 117-157
but yeah no lost casts i think
Also manages to get 2 env in most TB's which i think is important
I delay TB too get 2 env in but rarely lose casts
spice surge
You get 2 envenoms in basicly regardless of how much energy you have when you tb tbf
flat ocean
Yeah i assumed it was something like that
spice surge
Unless you tb at like 25 energy
flat ocean
Yeah that's just semantics
sturdy python
He actually did lose a cast, prolly from adds or downtime
flat ocean
And yeah most TB's you get 2 env in
But if you won't it's normally worth delaying a few seconds
spice surge
Its not though, anything that delays tb for even 2 seconds is a noticeable loss in simc
flat ocean
But simc isn't the same as raiding and I haven't found a log with perfect TB usage yet so im inclined to believe there are reasons to delay due to human error or mechanics
silent flare
i seem to burst around 30k but can't seem to hold it and end up parsing around the 70s :/
lost horizon
@silent flare fix your opener, it's in the guide
silent flare
ive been trying different openers and so far all the top rogues have different openers as well the guide doesnt seem to be anything close to what most people are doing
spice surge
Almost all top rogues use the openers in the pins
The reason they vary is because of talents/traits
spice surge
It is
lost horizon
with SS you double garrote
silent flare
it just says "apply garrote"
lost horizon
go to the rotation section
grizzled jay
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
lost horizon
it has openers for different talents/traits
silent flare
yea i didn't see that at all
Use Battle Potion of Agility Icon Battle Potion of Agility at 1 second on the pull countdown.
Apply Garrote Icon Garrote.
Cast Mutilate Icon Mutilate.
Apply Rupture Icon Rupture.
Activate Vendetta Icon Vendetta.
Cast Mutilate Icon Mutilate.
Cast Toxic Blade Icon Toxic Blade.
Activate Vanish Icon Vanish.
Cast Envenom Icon Envenom.
Cast Mutilate Icon Mutilate.
Cast Garrote Icon Garrote.
Cast Envenom Icon Envenom.
Continue with normal priority.
thats the only one i saw
oh its a different site
outer yacht
coarse knot
Yessir
vernal shadow
@silent flare the biggest struggle I have (and I never thought I'd say this about assa spec) is planning ahead so dots dont drop off during TB, and making sure I get a minimum 2 envoms in during it
And in the event I'm at 5 CP's and TB comes off CD, I'll immediate TB @ 5CP's into envenom. I used to envenom into TB but after sussing it out more (and the guys in here talking me through it) its a massive DPS/Damage loss not to
simple gulch
CAn you play assassinatino without Shrouded Suffocation?
I have the worst luck ever when it comes to getting Shrouded Suffocation
spice surge
Yes?
simple gulch
What would be the ideal traits if I don't have it?
spice surge
Check out herodamage for trait rankings
scarlet escarp
ok so if the mag'har orc racial increases my haste by 411 does that affect bleeds as well?
vital coral
Do you guys feel that rogue's get left out? being a melee without any utility for raids
Like when i see guilds searching for new people they just want warlocks, hunters e.t.c
we only have dps to bring no buffs or anything
vague patrol
that's more a ranged vs melee thing than anything rogue specific probably
vital coral
well other melee do bring somekind of buffs like the monk +5 physical for example
vague patrol
when people want melee they usually want 1 dh 1 warrior for debuff/buff (maybe a ww monk if no mw or brew) then rogues
vital coral
yea
vague patrol
but its pretty rare to see a raid with no rogues, and not uncommon to see 2 or more
vital coral
well sure that's true
vague patrol
but if rogue dmg got nerfed meaningfully then all we have is prog survivability
as far as why to bring one for reasons other than dmg
vital coral
yea, i saw now we are around 4'th on single target dps
for 8.1
as assasins
affliction warlocks being 1'st
vague patrol
demo
vital coral
vague patrol
i think sin is lowest of 3 specs for overall mythic logs atm
vital coral
not sure how accurate this is
vague patrol
but its close
vital coral
assassin doing lowest dmg?
vestal wren
@vital coral its german
vague patrol
yes slightly lower overall/avg dmg than outlaw and sub for uldir
vital coral
i know i have no clue what he say
outlaw doing better single target dmg now than assa?
vague patrol
not necessarily single target no
vestal wren
self promotion is also not allowed
vital coral
mostly single target fights in uldir
vestal wren
besides the website you use beeing quite questionable
vestal wren
oh, its not your video ok
vestal wren
if you want to have a dps ranking, just go to http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T22_Raid.html
vestal wren
just keep in mind it uses 10 array stacks
vague patrol
logs are probably more reliable
for uldir specifically
but yeah for projecting new raid idk
vital coral
damn we low on the dmg compaired to others 😛
vestal wren
its for the current tier, if you want to sim for the next tier you should rly look into creating your own gear profiles
also might be worth checking whats implemented and whats not on the simc git
vague patrol
you can look at this too @vital coral https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#
vestal wren
i dont think logs are any good for 8.1
given current logs are all dps cheeses and mainly showcase how well your group let you abuse the metric
vital coral
well we diden't get much for buffs for 8.1 except the AoE from traits?
vague patrol
eh
people definitely do cheese a lot at the high end
but over tens of thousands of parses already idk
its probably reasonably representative
vestal wren
%tile only takes a small subset of the parses
and you usually tent to go higher in %tile to like ~80-90%tile
vague patrol
well yeah you can look at everything thats just whatever warcraftlogs defaults to
obv the higher you go the more cheese there will be
but is it like a high enough % to skew the logs so bad theyre worse than sims
vestal wren
main issue i see is that there are a lot of other factors you dont consider, to name some:
- array impact
- new raid traits
- new raid trinkets
- boss design
- scaling
all of those and probably other are not part of the current logs.
besides that we probably see another tuning phase
vestal wren
oh well thats a diffrent topic
spice surge
Overall uldir rankings are heavily skewed towards classes with good burst aoe
Since 5/8 bosses have massive cheese potential
vital coral
yea i guess many frost DK's get high for the burst aoe
vestal wren
wait, you say outlaw and sub (75%tile) are not best to play over the shitty asssassination?
#buffasssasssination literally unplayable
vital coral
looks like i need to start farming for weapon and throw the daggers xd
vestal wren
sub is over outlaw, so you fine
vital coral
well i haven't played any sub yet hehe but i did find outlaw fun
i liked it having a bit more mobility also
vestal wren
as you see from logs sub is the only reasonable rogue spec to play, this means 87% of the rogue playerbase just have no clue about the game
and this is definitive not related to zul and the way wcl calculates the average dps 😉
vital coral
you play sub?
vestal wren
okay, jokes aside, tfd atm makes sub on pure st quite compatitive.
so, unless blizz decides to nerf tfd (what they likely do if you look at herodamage) it could see potential play on pure st oriented fights with high uptime
playing sub > sin is only on one fight relevant (zul)
assassination is the stronger spec overall going into the next tier atm.
vital coral
alright thanks for the info 😃
vital coral
i hope they make outlaw single target dps better so it's a more viable spec
vestal wren
it comes down to add timers
lost horizon
True
vestal wren
assassination was even on fetid not a bad choice
lost horizon
Eh only really if you sat on big add
vestal wren
esp. with the overtuned ss early probably even stronger
stoic token
any reason to stack the resounding protection shield vs just using something differernt of other pieces.
is having 3 the goal?
lost horizon
It's just a good, passive defensive
stoic token
right but do u need 3?
lost horizon
Not really
stoic token
meaning is there synergy with stacking?
lost horizon
3 is nice though, bigger shield all at once
Sort of? Bigger the shield, bigger one-shot stopping potential
lost horizon
Yeah they add together
stoic token
even in pvp?
lost horizon
Shouldn't be any different
But I haven't personally paid attention to it or pvp'd at all for a while 🤷
nimble tartan
Fs in the chat for sub
wary anchor
for shrine pb or ct?
jovial fractal
It really fcking sucks that my 345 shoulders with archive is better than any 375 i have 😦 or am i doing it wrong chat
oh maybe i should start simming without reorigination array?
i guess in uldir they are still king, but for dung and upcoming raid nope cause no RA
Yeah cheers im still getting the hang of things
hmm the default was on 0 RA anyway
marble harbor
stupid question, does it matter if i always use my finishers at 4 combo points ? (using vigor)
i feel like half the time i'm waisting a combo points but idk if the trade of a weaker finisher coimpensate for it
royal lantern
mulitate cost a shitton of energy and gives you 2-4 combo points
is that the answer?
marble harbor
not really ^^
royal lantern
you rather spend 50 energy too do low dmg and have 3-5 dead GCD's cus you are energy starved instead of doing a finisher at 4 Combo points?
the dmg difference is not that high, and rupture ALWAYS does the same dmg, read the tooltip
marble harbor
yeah i knew about rupture but ok i have my answer thanks :p
royal lantern
just want you too think why you do that stuff instead of just blind follow guides, there is a reason why you do X at Y most of the time
sorry if i sound like an asshole
marble harbor
no it's cool i like to understand why
i have another unanswered question about crimson tempest
i apply the dot from 2+ target if i understand correctly, but isn't there a point where the is so much target that the base damage of crimson tempest is worth using it for every finisher and thus replace evenom ?
royal lantern
at 5 targets+ you should replace envenom with CT
marble harbor
ok perfect thanks
royal lantern
but CT is only worth it when you have big pulls with enemys that stay alive for more then 10seconds
great for big pulls in m+ or fortified weeks, but if your tank is always only pulling 1pack each or the enemys die cus somone burst them down, PB is probably better
marble harbor
i tried PB but it doesn't proc that much :/
so at how much target do i stop garroting and rupturing and just go full retared fan of knives evenom ?
royal lantern
its a 16-20%proc chance,better then rngbomb in legion lol
you always need too keep bleeds up
rupture/garrote 3-4 high priority targets, then do envenom/CT, or your energy is gone
marble harbor
i see 
deep meteor
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
wary anchor
370 deadeye spyglass or 385 construct charger for m+?
steep obsidian
they did buff it at some point
quite a while ago
id say theyd be reasonably close dind you can sim things
deadye can be annoying if it procs on a mob that you didn't plan to tunnel
summer valve
for galecaller's when should i be using it in my opener/rotation? immediately after bleeds are up or right before exsang? tips and guide don't seem to say anything about when to use it
solid nova
Its in the pins mate
summer valve
it just says on cooldown, but it doesn't specify whether i should be using it after the first garrote/rupture or after refreshing them for the longer pandemic
or does it not matter
strange python
It's worth spend 675 Titan Residuum for buy an item with determinate azerite trait?
vestal wren
probably not
strange python
asking for that. I don't trust rng azerite item
vestal wren
well if you need the extra dps now, its probably okay
wary anchor
is the canonball trink any good for m+?
slate jacinth
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Use the fight style Dungeon Slice (Beta) for a M+ simulation on Raidbots.
faint sleet
at about how many targets does echoing blades become worth it over a second shrouded suff?
vapid moth
At constant pulls of 6+ targets
faint sleet
so...like islands only?
vapid moth
You're never had a big dick tank for m+ then
Cause at higher keys you need to pull multiple packs at a time to finish within the timer
bleak spoke
Man the energy regen from internal bleeding is so nice
I’ve been using it in place of the first envenom for large m+ packs this week
I’m kinda wondering if it’s actually more damage or if it’s just better upfront damage compared to the higher poison chance with the following foks
faint sleet
@vapid moth correct
spice surge
On singletarget it's more damage by a fair bit
Unless you have a massive amounts of targets it's prob more damage overall
Assuming the targets can be stunned ofc
glad shuttle
hello
I did a heroic yesterday, I really thought I performed ok, but I ended up with like a 40% parse
not sure what went wrong
do you guys have any pointers?
I put it through wowanalyzer, and I didn't see much wrong
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
solid nova
Your opener isnt right and your vanish use isnt either
glad shuttle
what's the benefit of garroting twice in a row?
lost horizon
Pandemic
And with SS it's more efficient at generating CP
While in the subterfuge window at least
glad shuttle
hmm
I see
you directly add the 30% pandemic from boosted garrote
instead of refreshing pandemic when it's about to fall off but you don't have the boosted garrote
lost horizon
The dip into pandemic is nice
But it's honestly the CP Gen that makes it worth
Mutilate is more energy for less CP on avg (depending on Crit %)
atomic willow
anyone know if the pieces we buy now from the vendor will get the 5th azerite trait ring once season 2 hits?
spice surge
No, they will not
royal lantern
meh, not like you need it now anyway unless you are still in progress and REALLY need that dps boost
primal gazelle
I don’t see blizz nerfing tfd for sub anytime soon, that’s like the final nail in the coffin for a spec that’s been nerfed 3-4 times already since the start of bfa
Sry I’m super late to the convo ops
spice surge
Unlucky
primal gazelle
Didn’t realize that convo was last night 😂
For those playing MA, on the opener do you use throw knives at 4 combo point before vanish—> envenom?
vestal wren
there is nothing official, but given the insane value of tfd its very unlikely that it stays untouched
it outvalues a 10 stack raid trait by quite a bit, given that it sounds reasonable to tune it down
royal lantern
they will nerf it
and buff afflock or something
yes, i hate afflock, fking op spec that is always top
strange python
hi, what are the best % of stats for multi / and single target ?
winter crystal
I have a question, I am a returning player learning to dps again. Does rupture/garrote "snapshot" still? Like would it be worth it to clip my bleeds early If I get some good trinket procs?
spice surge
No, the only thing that "snapshots" are the damage amplification from subterfuge/nightstalker (for assa)
Everything else updates dynamically
winter crystal
Thank you!
weak rose
does smeld activate subterfuge for garrote or is it only from regular stealth/vanish? couldnt find it on the site/pins
spice surge
It does not active subterfuge
In boss fights
In m+ you can shadowmeld and then stealth
It does however, for some reason, allow one garrote you cast to benefit from shrouded suffocation
weak rose
yeah figured as much since i didnt see smeld on sim apl when i ran it (figured i would ask anyway) ty though 😄
lost sentinel
most compelling reason for me to stay night elf is shadowmeld, love that ability
dark crag
I think tfd will atleast get a 50% hammer to the face
winter gale
Wha goes better with echoing blades? PB or CT ?
I just switched and I play with PB and I am not sure will CT give extra dmg or its not necessary since FOK dmg is now much better.
marsh fjord
Hi all, Does the downtime get any better with higher IL? the downtime is ugh.
royal lantern
downtime?
assassination has low APM
thats the spec, nothing will really boost it
marsh fjord
Sometiems i'm just sitting there nothing to press because energy isnt coming back to fast.
royal lantern
lowest or 2nd lowest APM in the game if im right
marsh fjord
I know the apm is low.
royal lantern
if you want too slam your face on the keyboard you can play outlaw or dh, they alway spam shit, assassination is slow, and that will probably not change in BFA
desert night
Huh. Wasn't aware of that. Which class/spec has lower apm? Honestly the last time I played Assassination seriously was at the end of WoW and it was decently quick.
royal lantern
last time i checked frost dk was lower? but not sure if that is still the case
weak rose
Yeah frost is lower
Unholy is pretty average
Iirc frost has lowest apm but sin has more downtime (slightly)
desert night
That's crazy. I've been researching Sub and Asn, though I've yet to get a 2nd dagger.
royal lantern
well, frost dk is pretty much autoattack afk until breath is up, where you spam the everyliving shit out of yourself
sin is simply 1-2 skills and wait for 1-2 seconds after that
wich adds up
weak rose
Well you don’t have full uptime during breath either 
At least I’ll be able to play sin next tier
jagged gazelle
guys my rogue is currently 357 and it gets quite energy starved after the opener,does that change in some way with better gear or?
I mean on single target
royal lantern
scroll up
jagged gazelle
shieeet
royal lantern
we just talked about it, but yeha, its normal and only gets slightly better with better stats
desert night
and with more targets to bleed
royal lantern
he said single target:P
desert night
that's why I struck a line through it
jagged gazelle
I mean im ilvl 357 and my dps is not improving much hope it pops off when I get to higher ilvl since i can pull 16 k on my 380 warr
I have like 10k max on rogue st
royal lantern
357 and 380 is a huge difference uk
jagged gazelle
well yeah it is
jagged gazelle
I can but my azerite gear is really shitty I just put it on for ilvl and hope I get in pug groups for heroic since guild is on break currently
strange python
Any tips to improve in m+ so maybe i get invited over 10+ mythic dungeons 😄 thanks
2 SS 1 Echo
frozen pecan
nice paint picture 
prisma monolithBOT
There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.
strange python
Thanks guys !
frozen pecan
lofty solstice
Hello friends. The Rogue i only planned on playing for Zul, im currently having to play on G'huun progress, and looking into optimizing some stuff. Is blindside worth it, assuming our damage in p1 and 2 is high enough, or will Elaborate Planning still be better.
Note: I DID sim a 2 minute execute fight, where it says Blindside is 900 dps lower, which just doesn't seem realistic, so i was wondering if the API might be wrong for Blindside
feral ridge
I think, its okay if sims shows Blindside not worth it. Just see at logs for mythic raiders on Ghuun, everyone play elaborate. Problem is RNG factor. Question is why your group got good dps on phase 1, on 2 too and on 3 they need u with execute build. It not make sense for me. Elaborate is best choice, for me.
lofty solstice
We're only dipping into P3 currently, and i actually do the raidleading for the team, so its mainly that i can see on logs that P1-2 damage it not a problem, which just to me seems like we can to zerg the boss asap in P3 (no shit)
Thats where i debated whether Blindside was worth it or not
molten cosmos
Is SS dead in MM+?
spice surge
If you have 1+ double dose then its not even worth using outside of the procc
round harbor
@molten cosmos why would it be dead in m+
molten cosmos
No I was just asking because the sim in bloodmallet is rly strange... I play it x2 so xD
round harbor
Simming for m+ is a waste of time for the most part
It's too dynamic to get a real answer
round harbor
That's fine if there is pulls for it. Otherwise scent is good too
It tank isn't pulling big echo is really shit
molten cosmos
ye right
muted jacinth
@royal lantern man you definitely need some better azerite lol
latent field
What low amp are you guys talking about? I see assassination rogues consistently near the top of cpm in logs
civic palm
o _o
latent field
sullen pagoda
cpm isnt apm
molten cosmos
cpm?
latent field
Must be since it hits with both daggers
latent field
True, but those shouldn’t make a difference between classes tisumi
civic palm
ima spam Detect to cheese CPM 👌
latent field
Don’t waste your time miz
civic palm
on CPM? Sounds good.
latent field
Do you guys know if there’s a reliable way to track apm thru logs?
latent field
Is that true? In Zekvoz logs you would expect tons of FoK casts padding the cpm, but I see around 20 casts for a typical log
steep obsidian
it used to be
latent field
So apm is closer to 40 on a typical ST fight
sullen pagoda
oh it got changed
i remember it being like that on dragons mythic i didnt bother looking at that since
xd
silk whale
any of you use Exanguinate in raids ?
lost horizon
Mut casts are still miscounted for logs
Tracks the offhand hit separately or some shit
meager basalt
in your opinion if i have a piece with nothing personal & Battlefield precision which should i choose for pvp
silk whale
kk cool, cause Im trying ti and its really fun
lone junco
Any new developments in sin news?
Afaik FOK is dead. And vendetta is meh.
Good talk.
civic palm
Yeah switch to Frost Mage.
static coral
does the energy regen feel drastically better at higher haste?
latent field
No
lost horizon
Depends
0% going to 20%+ you'll notice a difference
Smaller increments will obviously be less impactful
maiden raptor
While you're talking about energy. Sin does feel a bit energy starved or is that just me? I came back recently after a long break and i got the feeling like i forgot about something. I try to pool my energy on bosses and small pulls but still kinda hard tho. Any tips or suggetions?
civic palm
It's a DoT maintenance class designed around managing your resources correctly, so it's designed to be slow.
DoTs/etc. do more DMG due to the speed of the class.
lost horizon
If you've got CP to dump before going into the next trash pack, put a rupture out on something that's about to die on the previous pack
Just for energy refund
bleak spoke
@maiden raptor if you're not playing exsang i find that it makes it feel a lot better
and internal bleeding on trash pcks
lost horizon
Internal bleeding doesn't really have much of an impact
vapid moth
@maiden raptor what's your haste at
maiden raptor
Okay i see. i thought about trying sub maybe but i guess i just have to get a bit better on energymanagment. And i'm lacking good azerite armor for sub to begin with lol
@vapid moth my haste is 16%
vapid moth
Yeah that's the point at which the spec started feeling a bit better for me. Itll feel even better as you get higher
maiden raptor
Sounds good thanks a lot 😃
grizzled orbit
So while simming talents with x2 DD and 1 Archive, it's telling me that Master assassin is now slightly better than Subter. Could anyone possibly give me a new opener to maximize DPS? XD
latent field
Isn’t there one in the guide in the pins
spice cargo
Hey guys, I just geared me rogue to ~370 to play some m+ because lock is ResidentSleeper in m+, what would be the optimal trait/talent setup to run. If its in pins just @me with FailFish
latent field
Did you check the pins yet?
latent field
fervent beacon
topaz axle
I assume when using doom's wake to just pop in on cd?
swapping to sin /shrug
been lul all xpac
topaz axle
still lul in +, but RL wants me to "be more adaptable to fights"
I mean, being top 3 in dps and priority damage on every fight is pretty useful imo
wary ice
latent field
topaz axle
outlaw. my personal performance
nimble tartan
kkona
royal lantern
@muted jacinth raid progress is over, and im not gonna buy azerite armor with better traits now that will not be used and trashed 1week into the next tier, so idc at this point
eager steeple
For bolstering is it better to pick Crimson Tempest so you can pure single target certain packs of mobs?
brisk forge
CT isnt ST tho xD
lost horizon
He means so he can avoid accidental PB cleave
Honestly I wouldn't really factor that into the decision between those talents
Tbh if you're pulling small enough for PB then you usually don't have to worry that much about bolstering
jagged gazelle
is shrouded suffocation a must have since every guide I watched only explains rotation and opener when that azerite trait is used
royal lantern
its good for most content, and pretty much the best trait for m+ and it makes the opener more smooth
jagged gazelle
yeah thats what I thought but it was kinda weird since it seems like it is a must have
royal lantern
not really, with ss you do garrote->rupture->garrote, without you do garrote->mulitate->rupture
thats pretty much all that changes
jagged gazelle
yeah but if you dont have suffocation you dont use exsanguinate?
or did I get it wrong since thats what has been said in video
because i dont really know when to use toxic blade and when exsanguinate
royal lantern
that mostly deepens on the fight and how both sims for you
for some people exsang is better, for most its toxic blade
royal lantern
and exsang is pretty good too get priority targets out in m+ cus you generate more energy while its active
jagged gazelle
see with warrior its so straightforward you could play it blind
jagged gazelle
still you gotta pay more attention than on warrior
brisk forge
Playing good with warr isnt just smashing the keyboard 🙄
lost horizon
Honestly you can smash the keyboard as sin and do fine LOL
bleak spoke
fok rupture tab fok rupture tab fok rupture tab fok ct fok rupture tab pool cuz not enough haste fok rupture tab = sustained 20k on a trash pack :^)
lost horizon
Woah Woah Woah
Don't over simplify
Gotta garrote 3 times at the start too
Bigbranplays
bleak spoke
sorry sometimes i use arcane torrent instead of pooling
and sometimes fok returns 1 cp while you're on a pack of 12
lost horizon
Memes aside, trash is the one place sin actually takes effort LOL
bleak spoke
man, i played affliction for keys before rogue and definitely feels relaxing comparatively xd
playing rogue i mean
lost horizon
🤷 as with anything it takes effort to do well
But sin can honestly do fine facerolling
bleak spoke
Yeh I’m memeing mostly
lost horizon
Difference is affliction you have to play well to do any trash damage at all
bleak spoke
As a frame of reference what garrote/rupture/ct uptimes should I am for in a whole dungeon
Currently I’m just under 80% on garrote/rupture but that seems low
lost horizon
That's not really a good metric for comparison
bleak spoke
Hmm, alright
glacial shuttle
Does it matter what weapons Sin uses?
solid nova
You need 2 daggers or you cant mutilate.
glacial shuttle
Righteo then.
I got an axe from the weapons cache WQ emissary, wanted to know if it was wortth it. 😦 Guess not./
sleek iron
anyone know the addon to show secondary stats (crit, mastery, haste, vers) stats like and in game overlay
spice surge
Pawn, make sure you regularly sim yourself and not use the base profiles
sleek iron
nah
just live tracking of my stat changes during combat
Haste: 27%
Crit: 28%
Mastery: 25%
Vers: 12%
With the percentages changing based on buffs
sleek iron
Yes!
cold meteor
I love to see my haste goeing above my crit when I use shadow dance in Uldir
spice surge
What purpose does that WA have lol, except cluttering the screen
solid nova
Cosmetic nothingness
royal lantern
screen full with information<--------->good ui
sleek iron
my stats are close together so im curious to see live how the array changes
and i run a 21:9 monitor so i have shit ton of spare space
royal lantern
but thats just a distraction that doesn help or change your gameplay at all, you cant controll it
lost horizon
Damn u speedy @solid nova
sleek iron
@royal lantern and thats a subjective opinion, thanks for your input
solid nova
You should have learned by now 
remote oak
It's actually pretty objective
lost horizon
LOL I mean I just didn't expect it to be that fast
remote oak
The info is useless and won't affect your rotation tbh
cold meteor
This is subjective
remote oak
It's a fact
sleek iron
i will forgive you and move on
remote oak
That's objective
cold meteor
ofc it will not help your rotation
remote oak
If you want it there more power to you, but it literally isn't telling you anything you need to know to increase your throughput
lost horizon
I mean if you're gonna slap a big ass WA on there, why not just have your character screen open?
cold meteor
But you will see huge stat moves in a raid environment, and you can further aiming to change some pieces
it's tiny
lost horizon
If you want to see stat procs just go through logs
sleek iron
leave them be @cold meteor
vestal wren
make them animated bars, they are more shiny and pew pew
remote oak
^ this tbh
lost horizon
Glow effect on everything
spice surge
Its like the my little pony WA that was used in methods wf garrosh kill
or paragon or whoever it was
cold meteor
well you guys won : it's useless
remote oak
I mean, as long as you understand that what we're telling you is true and that we're not just picking on you because we don't like your weakaura
cold meteor
Well I also think i'm enough old to make my self opinion on things
Yes I start this ^^
solid nova
Nty
cold meteor
Opinion about uselessnes of a weakaura is subjective
umbral hemlock
2 EB + 1 SS or 2 SS + 1 EB this week? 😃
lost horizon
I used something like that in legion for my spriest cause there was some haste breakpoint
royal lantern
2EB is only good when you tank pulls big all the time, otherwise you should go with the 2xss
lost horizon
But telling people to track their stats on screen to improve their play, for assassination right now, is downright misinformation
cold meteor
maybe it's useless for you doesn't mean it's useless for everyone
lost horizon
Which is why people reacted poorly to it
umbral hemlock
ahhh where is the fun in that 😮 ok, I guess you're right
cold meteor
We never say tracking stats help your gameplay
remote oak
It's only useful if you glean satisfaction from watching the numbers move around. In the terms of throughput however is is factually and objectively a distraction that does not change how you should be performing your rotation.
cold meteor
it will not change your rotation I 100% agree with you
sleek iron
@lost horizon nobody said that rofl - dont put words in other peoples mouth
cold meteor
But, it can be useful for changing stuff & gear if you see too many variation in a fight
at medium/long range I mean
cold meteor
I don't have the time to check all my logs after raiding, I only check them when I see an issue somewhere
lost horizon
So then what does it do?
light rampart
This conversation is so fun to read.
remote oak
I'd personally leave that to the sims rather than "Oh hey look at all those crit procs on module it feels like I have too much crit"
But you do you tbh
lost horizon
What decisions does it impact?
cold meteor
Maybe if I saw huge stats variation i will tell myself "check the logsd after this"
still
lost sentinel
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
civic palm
What are we angry about in here?
remote oak
We're just always angry in here
drowsy lodge
vestal wren
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
solid nova
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
cosmic haven
Heya, been back on my rogue since a while and really feel like im wasting loads of cp's in my rotation. gearing it atm to get rdy for raiding in the new upcoming raids. Im looking at rotation on the ravenholdt websites and I see that it recommends going 4 CP > Env or Rup refresh when toxic blade is on CD to waste 1 CP from 4-6 since max is 5.
Is that really the way to go at it?
the best way atleast.
solid nova
Yeah, finish at 4+
cosmic haven
allright, thx !
leaden garden
If im at 0-2 cp and toxic blade comes off cd, do i use it? or du i build to 3 and then go toxic blade followed by envenom?
solid nova
On CD, as guide suggests.
heavy haven
what would u guys recommend 1 ss + 1 double dose + subterfuge and exsan or 1 twist the knife + 1 double dose + master assasin and toxic blade (dont tell me to sim, i already simemd just want to hear opinions)
distant hinge
how high is your crit
distant hinge
IMO EX and your choices is nice with high crit
if you dont have high crit then TB
and 27% is good
26-27 or whatever you got
oh this for M+ or raid?
distant hinge
Ex sang crit better
sturdy python
The real answer here is: Id take my sims and make a decision
And it would depend on fight as multi target lends itself to Subt
heavy haven
ofc i cna blindly follow my sims but i would like to understand why and shit
distant hinge
ya i mean when i choose Exsang crit becomes top choice
sturdy python
THeres not much to understand in this situation. In a ST patchwerk situation one of those just does more damage than the other
solid nova
What
distant hinge
but ya SIm, he jsut wanted to know others personal opnion
sturdy python
Its more likely exssang just provides more haste in a window so crit becomes more important. Thats a super minor thing though
heavy haven
the thing is im simming higher with tb master assa + 1 double dose + 1 twist the knife
and i dont really think that twist the knife is that good
without sims and shit i would just run exs sub 1 ss and 1 double dose because its the best in my opinion
but sims are just shitting on that setup
sturdy python
Well we dont know what youre simming so hard to give you an idea