assassination

[acoustic quartz]

Post logs @vernal shadow

[vernal shadow]

Trying to find one when we both got the kill

I'll post my own ones to start one sec

[acoustic quartz]

That's the best way to tell

[bleak spoke]

Wowanalyzer’s pretty good too

[vernal shadow]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/PZ6bGqFA4KYL9kzf#fight=30&type=damage-done

This is a M Fetid

[acoustic quartz]

Do you have a taloc?

[little cedar]

mark for death is still best option for pvp?

[vernal shadow]

Even just what you guys look at to compare etc, I've already been interested in how people analyze it. I tend to just sim

[acoustic quartz]

Fetid is hard to tell

[vernal shadow]

I've got a Taloc I did 1 sec

[acoustic quartz]

I would look at what his top ability is vs yours

And his up time vs yours

Those are 2 easy t things to look at

[vernal shadow]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cvz4KDG9LfZjwW2a#fight=4&type=damage-done

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/PZ6bGqFA4KYL9kzf#fight=21&type=damage-done

And a Vec

[acoustic quartz]

Ugh can't see uptime on mobile

[vernal shadow]

Is that 'Active'?

[acoustic quartz]

So right off the bat

He did double your garrote damage

I am having the same issue

And yes it's active

[bleak spoke]

double?

[vernal shadow]

Wot? 1M v 1.19M

[bleak spoke]

looks like 20%

[acoustic quartz]

Oh I'm sorry

[vernal shadow]

I'm open to feedback, not ebing defensive at all! Just wanna make sure I'm reading it right

[acoustic quartz]

I read 1.9

Not 1.19

My bad

But yeah active is up time

What is your active time in general? 99%?

[vernal shadow]

On Vev. 78% vs 79%

Him vs Me

[bleak spoke]

did neither of you second pot

or is that a quirk of wcl

[vernal shadow]

Yeahhhhh rookie move

Well, I'm not sure tbh

It might not track the pre pull one?

[acoustic quartz]

So

You did more add damage

Maybe that's y he is parcing higher?

Not swapping to adds

[tepid fractal]

i saw fetid

u totally fucked up on bl

no vendetta no dmg

[bleak spoke]

hmm, i thought you were supposed to take exsang for burst on the adds

or is it just take whatever you sim highest with

[tepid fractal]

doesnt matter till adds dying

[acoustic quartz]

When looking at logs how do you know someone fucked up bl?

What do you look at

[tepid fractal]

ah other rogue does double garrote

[vernal shadow]

@bleak spoke I was running Exg for the first few attempts. But I was abyssmal with it

[tepid fractal]

on fetid, big add and then runs to other add

[vernal shadow]

Ohhhhh

[acoustic quartz]

@tepid fractal how do you see that in logs

[vernal shadow]

Magic

[tepid fractal]

casts, debuffs etc

[acoustic quartz]

I got some good info last night but could you look at my taloc and see if you could find anything else?

My garrote damage if super low

[tepid fractal]

the main reasons he dealt more damage on fetid are

• he does a little bit more dmg when u just stand and nobrain hit fetid
• he multidoted through vanish with bl on two targets. tahts the main time window when he went form 14k to 18k and u stayed on 14k
  -he better uses stomp on boss

before 1st adds he started dps on it right since when they spawned

u flied in dofferent empty corner on the room

[vernal shadow]

Yeah I had the debuff and couldn't get into melee I remeber that part

Thats awesome man, thank you so much for so much info!

[acoustic quartz]

Damn getting quality analysis

[tepid fractal]

and u cast vendetta on fetid before bl

why

[acoustic quartz]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x2mtqQ1RPAbBHda4/#fight=2&type=summary&source=19

Do me next! Lol

[tepid fractal]

and they u got bl and u went to dps add

without bl vendetta

u must time ur bursts with bl if u can

[vernal shadow]

Being honest, I dont knwo when the raid is going to BL

[tepid fractal]

because haste is super good now

[vernal shadow]

So thats something I should be vocal about

[tepid fractal]

i know

stress mistakes first kill etc

[glacial steppe]

tfw when you have a rogue with tripple SS in your group and he plays TB/CT on Taloc

monkaS

[tepid fractal]

anyway i point major mistakes, now u can improve a bit

no matrix lul

[vernal shadow]

Exactly dude thank you!

[glacial steppe]

number 1 rule: raid lusts when rogue has CDs

[tepid fractal]

nah

some specs can do more

under bl

i missed 8m bursts in legion 😦

[obsidian girder]

did i missunderstand ? i deal more dmg if i do vendetta after the BL cast ? its a difference if i do vendetta before BL ?

[odd wing]

align ven with bl

[tepid fractal]

bl lasts 45sec and vendetta 20

doest matter if u cast vendetta before 1sec or after 1sec

[obsidian girder]

ah okay thought the effect of vendetta gets kinda buffed if you cast it while BL is already running

ye okay understood 😮 thanks

[odd wing]

its the same reason you use trinkets with vendetta as well

[obsidian girder]

if my rogue is geared enough i would be glad if you guys can analyze my logs too. your tips are awesome

[odd wing]

Just maximising damage

[tepid fractal]

there are no strange and deep mechanics. Just place ur vendetta in 45sec bl window

[glacial steppe]

but we are rogues @tepid fractal

the superior class above em all

[tepid fractal]

i dont feel muself special anymore

[obsidian girder]

okay ye.. i miss the old days where you played for the 10% dmg buff and only did finishers at the very end of the poison dmg buff like in legion ._.

[tepid fractal]

bfa kinda sucked

[obsidian girder]

dont remember the name ._. was the same like our EB talent

[tepid fractal]

eb?

[glacial steppe]

he prolly means ep

[obsidian girder]

EP sorry

Elaborate Planning

[tepid fractal]

ah +10% poisons on target with finisher

onlyremember russian name for it

[obsidian girder]

ye was one artifact trait in legion

is it really no dps gain if we play around EP ? like pooling energy and wait for the very end of EP ?

[tepid fractal]

play around it very techically can improve ur dps, yes

but therse numbers are so small

better focus on other problems while dps

but yeah, u must defresh it correctly, one ep after another

getting 8s buff from 2 casts and not less

[obsidian girder]

sad. 😦 but okay. i have to train lining up my cds with BL etc..

[tepid fractal]

u can use finish earlier when u have cap of energy

on opener

etc

[obsidian girder]

ye in the opener with BL i pump envenoms so i get as much as possible while vendetta is up

[idle pagoda]

so SS is still the preferred trait?

[winter moss]

https://herodamage.com/rogue/

if playing exsang: yes
if tb: no

[dense forum]

I have 2x SS what talent is good tb or exa?

For m+

[winter moss]

exsang

TB in m+ isnt that good

and given you can dot 3 enemies with empowered garrote

[dense forum]

Ok thanks, and toxic bomb is good ?

I never know what lvl 100 talent use

[winter moss]

depends on pulls

if ya tank is giga pussy you probably stick with poison bomb

[obsidian girder]

giga pussy as usual.. ._.

[winter moss]

but most of the time CT is viable. unless tyrannical Temple of Sethraliss

and kings rest

[vernal shadow]

@winter moss Whats weird is sim is giving me SS over DD with TB :/

[winter moss]

with no SS trait MA+DD+TB should pull ahead

[vernal shadow]

Hmmm... I'll resim all talents again maybe I didn't do it correctly

[winter moss]

azerite items same level?

[vernal shadow]

They were, now its 390 vs 375 so I'm not surprised there

I could run 2xSS or 2xArchieve Titans and it foes SS

goes**

[silk whale]

which of the 3 assassination guides holds better info for multi target, one says to FoK at 2+, one at 3+ and other at 4

[normal spear]

use ravenholdt's guide, never fok at 2

[silk whale]

ok thx

a bit of a dumb question, but if TB is on CD why not use it after our first garrote on pull, to put it on cd sooner?

[vapid moth]

Cause you dont haVe all your bleeds up

[normal spear]

and you don't want to put/refresh bleeds during TB

never ever

[vernal shadow]

Actually a question on TB usage.. if you've got 5CP and it comes off cooldown. Do you Envenom and then TB, or TB (wasting a CP point) and then Envenom

[vapid moth]

Tb

[vernal shadow]

Reeeealy.

[vapid moth]

Yup

[ornate monolith]

Yes

[vernal shadow]

That's something I'll need to change

[sturdy python]

Should do your best to make sure it doesn't happen often though

[vernal shadow]

Makes sense to TB, but I felt like I was losing something by throwing away that CP

[ornate monolith]

Atleast get two Envenom in the TB window

[spice surge]

Think of it like this, one cp is roughly 20% of an envenom

a 30% increase on envenom > 20% of an envenom

[vernal shadow]

Thats a very good way to look at it

And focusing on making sure Rup/Garr dont drop off during

[sturdy python]

Yes, gotta plan ahead

[vapid moth]

You guys really dont refresh garrote during it? Sometimes that 1 cp helps smooth shit out

[sturdy python]

Gonna be better to not have to, if you need one cp and it's in pandemic I suppose it could make sense

[vapid moth]

Yeah that's always the situation

[normal spear]

i don't believe it's possible to never have to refresh garrote during TB

is it?

and also, do you also have situations when it's 10 secs remaining on rupture and TB comes off cd?

you kind of can't refresh it, but after TB you have the risk to let it drop off

[silk whale]

hmmm this some good knowledge ty

[sturdy python]

Garrote will not always be falling off during tb, it's 18 secs base

[winter moss]

simming 19.725

[acoustic quartz]

Would it be worse to delay tb like 4s to get fresh dots up first?

[sturdy python]

And with rupture it should be refreshed somewhere after tb is 12 secs or less from CD

[normal spear]

yes, it would be definitely worse

to delay TB by whole 4 secs

[acoustic quartz]

Ok so would you suggest refreshing during tb or after

And having them fall off for a second or 2

[winter moss]

do not refresh dots in tb window

[normal spear]

plan ahead

[acoustic quartz]

Makes sense haha

[normal spear]

refreshing is bad, letting fall off is terrible

[acoustic quartz]

Yup

[winter moss]

fukcing up a pandemic timer by ~4 secs is ok

delaying tb by 4 secs is not

[silk whale]

after the vendetta why use mutilate first then Tb shouldnt be other way?

[acoustic quartz]

Going to spam taloc lfr tonight haha

[winter moss]

@silk whale speaking of opener?

[silk whale]

yes

[winter moss]

MA talented or with SS trait

[silk whale]

with subterfuhe and no ss trait

[winter moss]

ah i see

[silk whale]

i imagine with MA its mut causd it would hit harder?

and give 4 cb points

[winter moss]

nah it's for ot over capping cps

or not to hard

imagine getting the first mut off and you have 2 cp

then you hit tb and it does not crit

3cp envenom

[silk whale]

okk

[winter moss]

2mut 1 tb cast mut does not crit tb does

1cp lost

2 mut cast, one crits

@ 5 cp no room for tb cp

[silk whale]

kk

so after vendetta u mut til ur at 3-4 cp then tb?

in opener

[winter moss]

after vendetta, tb and mut till 4 cp

[silk whale]

kk

i imagine u tb after the muts so the env buff lasts longer during env window

[winter moss]

the buff is 30% ncreased poison application

so you cant convert it to dmg

since you should have poisons up at this time

but you can convert 1 cp into dmg

so for the general you try not to overcap cp

[acoustic quartz]

Opener question, Ravenholdt says vanish and garrote twice when the first garrote ends. But this would mean vandetta is off for those 2nd set of garrotes

Am I understanding that correctly

[winter moss]

it is

2 garrotes are ~24sec

you popping vendetta 3,5 secs into the fight

[acoustic quartz]

Yeah so you catch the end of vandetta? Makes sense

[winter moss]

guess it doesnt have to do with vendetta rather than cd usage

you delay your 2nd vendetta for vanish tho

[rose sapphire]

no u dont

u delay ur vanish for the next vandetta

[sturdy python]

No

Vendetta for vanish

To line them up

[last crown]

Sim now saying I should swap shrouded to the envenom trait and go toxic blade. I know the general advice is "trust the sim", but feels wrong to me, no?

[sturdy python]

What's ilvls

[spice surge]

Why would you hold you vanish for 2 mins to line up with vendetta when you can hold vendetta for 20s to line em up

Ofc you hold vendetta for vanish

[last crown]

375 shroudeds, 385 envenom trait

[rose sapphire]

but do u go vandetta -> vanish -> garrote?

for 2nd

nvm what I wrote i missplayed myself I ment what u wrote

[sturdy python]

Then makes sense for St kelustu

[spice surge]

No you vanish after your first garrotes have ended

So 24 seconds after pull

All openers are in the guide in the pins

[rose sapphire]

im talking about the 2nd vandetta vanish garrote combo

not opener

[acoustic quartz]

So for 2nd vendetta, you vendetta double garotte? Or through a rupture in there

[last crown]

vendetta doesnt snapshot on rupture so the vendetta will impact whatever rupture is already on, and you should have 100% rupture uptime anyways

the reason you delay vanish for vendetta is the vanish makes your garrote stronger

has no impact on rupture

[rose sapphire]

YES but my question is do u insta vanish garrote when u pop ur second vandetta just to get full duration of the better garrote?`

[honest basin]

Vanish double garrote

And when 20s on the garrote remain, so 3s later

Use Vendetta

[last crown]

honestly no idea, but my gut sense is that the best thing to do would be vanish>garrote>garrote then vendetta after

you want to maximize the number of spells you get off during vendetta

wasting a GCD on vanish is one that could be a mut/env

[rose sapphire]

but the double garr is for ss

traits

[spice surge]

It doesnt really matter, as long as you have 20s of garrote in vendetta (with tb) or the entirity of the garrote if exsang

[winter moss]

DoTs are dynamic

[strange python]

Guys, for m +
SS x2 Blades (FoK trait)
or
SSx2 rupture trait

[last crown]

vanish-empowered garrotes are not dynamic though

[honest basin]

Vanish isn't in the gcd 🤔

[winter moss]

so if you cast vendetta after Double Garrote they are still empowered by it

[strange python]

scent of blood?

[last crown]

sorry equi, youre right, but i meant that the actual application of garrote doesnt do the damage, you want to be maximizing how many actual damage spells you cast in vend

[winter moss]

not done with eb testing yet and still unsure about it @strange python

[wary moon]

random question

[vapid moth]

@acoustic quartz you can refresh rupture at 1 sec if need be

[wary moon]

battle for darkshore quest not showing up

any pre-reqs?

[winter moss]

Warfront closed

🤷

[last crown]

open for horde

[winter moss]

can do WQs there

[strange python]

@winter moss I think it would payed more Scent of blood, 😃

[last crown]

unless something changed in the last 30 minutes

just did it

[honest basin]

Yes, hence the vanish, Garrote garrote Vendetta and then finisher with the cp you got from garrote

[winter moss]

@strange python EB is nuts tho, 30k on every pack

minimum

but it's rather designed for bigger pulls

not pussy pulls

[bleak spoke]

Is EB SS SS the best for general use

[strange python]

Thanks guys ^^, I am asking because after a month i just got scent of blood on 375 so i dont know 😛

[winter moss]

tbh i go 1eb 1ss 1sob/1archive

[strange python]

Thats nice idea @winter moss

[formal parrot]

why tho

[winter moss]

mostly because i got no 2nd SS trait

and i wanst so sure about a second eb trait

as i said not done testing and still not sure

[bleak spoke]

If you had 2 SS would you almost always go with that

[winter moss]

id still probably go with 2eb in m+

[bleak spoke]

what if you were pugging and the pulls weren't always the largest

[rose sapphire]

Ok guys, I don't play with SS at all so I do not use garrote x 2, basically what I am wondering is when my second Vandetta is closing out to get ready what do I do? Pop it when vanish is ready and instant vanish after vandetta to go garrote to get a full 18s garrote under the 20s vandetta?

[winter moss]

then id play with 2ss and 1 archive

bc pugs

1*eb

[bleak spoke]

ah okay

[winter moss]

sorry mind slip

[acoustic quartz]

Ok so just clarifying, it's vanish garrotte garrote envenom

[winter moss]

why would you not double garrote? @rose sapphire

playing ma?

[rose sapphire]

I am not playing with Shrouded Suf

There is no reason to double garr for me

[winter moss]

but you play with subterfuge

[rose sapphire]

y

[acoustic quartz]

Or better yet garrote garrote, vendetta, tb, envenom?

[rose sapphire]

and get fucked on 3 cp

with 1 more mutilate

overcaping

[winter moss]

with this talent?

[rose sapphire]

so I vanish double garr vandetta?

[winter moss]

aye

[rose sapphire]

even if I go without shrouded suf?

[acoustic quartz]

But would you waste the CP and tb before envenom?

[winter moss]

you still do 80% more dmg from subterfuge and you want the most duration of it

[sturdy python]

You don't need to double garrote if you pandemic the previous one though

[rose sapphire]

thats true

good point Tawney

[winter moss]

there is this

on http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/#rot

[errant viper]

hey guys

[rose sapphire]

ue doesnt tell anything about double garrote 😛

[errant viper]

umm I've read the ravenholdt sin guide, but I had one small question 😮

[winter moss]

but in pandemic timer

[rose sapphire]

but there is a diff between opener and second 3rd etc vandetta/vanish

[winter moss]

still vanish follows the same rules

[errant viper]

How does sin compare to outlaw and sub for raiding and mythic+? 😮 The Guide doesn't go into much detail on that

[winter moss]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/19#class=Rogue there you go for raid

m+ is pull/dungeon/affix dependent

[errant viper]

Interesting 😮 So on each raid boss a different specs seems to perform better

Is it still viable to switch specs between boss fights? I remember that used to be the best way to do things back in some expacs ago, but not sure about BFA

[acoustic quartz]

If you have the gear why not

[winter moss]

if you have enough azerite pieces and gear why not

but dont trust korean logs

[errant viper]

how'd this happen here:

[winter moss]

busted trait

The Trait Echoing Blades was nerfed by 75% before it even hit EU Realms

[errant viper]

ohhhhh

hey, about M+... any places you'd recommend for a noob to do some reading? 😮

Been watching InfexiousGaming's youtube channel, and it has a nice Guide, but I kinda wanted to read a bit more on it

[acoustic quartz]

Do a bunch of low ones imo

Get used to the instance

[winter moss]

yeah best idea

[acoustic quartz]

And the mobs

Slowly work your way up

[winter moss]

if you need detailed boss guides there are plenty on wowhead/youtube/icyveins etc

but remember, not every guide executeable by your group comp

[errant viper]

Got it

Guess I could start with sin and eventually start using more specs for particular cases, right?

[acoustic quartz]

Master one

[errant viper]

I mean, I kinda get the feeling that sin is the general go-to spec for most cases

[acoustic quartz]

Then branch out

They are all good

[winter moss]

sin is probably the easiest to learn

[acoustic quartz]

If you haven't mastered one there is no point swapping

[errant viper]

I'll work on mastering sin, then 😄

Thanks for all the help, guys, much much appreciated!

[winter moss]

NP

that's what spec channels are for

[acoustic quartz]

I'm making a list of tips to remind myself for later

Anyone have anything to add or is anything here incorrect?

[winter moss]

read the guides

[acoustic quartz]

I did

[winter moss]

is the only thing i can add to everything

[acoustic quartz]

I'm talking small stuff that's not in there unless I missed it

Like making sure not to refresh dots during tb

[winter moss]

then check the pins is the next tip :D

lot of stuff is explained in there aswell

everything else is personal or situation based

and probably should be asked here if unclear/unsure

[acoustic quartz]

Yeah I didn't see these tips in the pin,I guess they are obvious but I was doing them wrong

Tips

Refresh dots before toxic blade comes off cd to make sure you get 2 envenoms during toxic blade.

For the second vendetta, vanish-garrote-garrote-vendetta-tb-envenom

Don't over cap combo points for rupture or envenom. Use at 4 if needed

It's ok to over cap combo points on toxic blade to buff envenom.

Is anything there incorrect?

[winter moss]

1 tip: try to get 3 envenoms in tb window

2 should be easy possible,3 would be great

[acoustic quartz]

Ok yeah I think using the at 4 cp would help that

Good one

Using tb*

[winter moss]

where did the last one come from

[acoustic quartz]

It was discussed here

If you are at 5cb and tx comes up, use it

And then envenom

Tx=tb

[winter moss]

if tb is coming of cd (cd<3sec) and you sit on 3 cp, dont mutilate, just pool for abit then cast TB and envenom

will help you to get in 3 envenom easier

[acoustic quartz]

That's true

[winter moss]

pooling is still a thing

[acoustic quartz]

Added that last one

[scenic birch]

I have a question

How is your rotation at the beginn of bossfight? I burst with 25k but i think its too low with 382 ilvl

I use 1x dd 1x archieve and 1x SS

25% crit
26% haste (in Uldir)
30% mastery

[winter moss]

Read the Guide

http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

if you are done reading

Read it again

[scenic birch]

Ok ty

Why should i do garrote, rupture and another garrote with SS at the opener

[sturdy python]

To get pandemic time on your empowered garrote

[scenic birch]

Ahh it works yeah

[cold meteor]

And G R G Mut R if you play Exsang

[undone verge]

380+... psh. I’m still holding down the 360s

[gilded arrow]

are people in here liking exang or TB

more

[undone verge]

@scenic birch it always gets another bleed on the target sooner for more regen

[gilded arrow]

for raiding

if you are running ss

[undone verge]

I don’t raid but I like ex

[little cedar]

isnt shiv to much up?

op*

[dark crag]

Yes up

[bleak spoke]

is marked for death actually worth using over vigor in dungeons

[tidal sedge]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[lone junco]

@bleak spoke no. Vig is fine.

[wooden elk]

opinion on marked for death vs vigor in m+?

[frosty violet]

Isn't that literally the question that was just answered right before you asked?

[bleak spoke]

I think he’s asking in what situation which of them would be better

[lone junco]

We don't have explosive finishers that will abuse mark back to back to back. We need ggg Ct + 4 ruptures early at the open.

[bleak spoke]

Ah okay

But won’t have enough energy without vigor to do it comfortably?

[lone junco]

If you sim the dungeon slice with 3ss. Mark may be a wash. You can check the % differential.

Then check the st differences. And vigor will win.

[wooden elk]

dungeon slice tells me mfd is way better but i doubt that is the case

[lone junco]

Way? Is that <0.2%. And without 3ss

[bleak spoke]

If anything it’d be much harder to play for maybe not too many results?

[lone junco]

Outlaw with shoulders and blade flurry made mark shine. Cause you were gibbing stuff. Env is limp compared to rupture tabs.

And btw. The slice has 11sec kill times. Which I believe to be short.

[bleak spoke]

Are there diminishing returns for energy regen from garrote/rupture

[lone junco]

Once E caps.

But if you have scent you want 8 ruptures if you can get it.

Will be capped E. but dumping dps.

[bleak spoke]

How many garrotes is feasible to maintain?

Or just on cd

[lone junco]

Only the 3 subterfuge. Rest are a waste.

Should FOK In cleave after that.

[frosty violet]

You only need enough energy to make it through the fight and fill every GCD. Anything above that is wasted. Once you start generating enough energy every second for your next GCD you don't need more.

[bleak spoke]

What about with vanish?

[lone junco]

3 then 3 more is up to you.

[frosty violet]

My comment was specific to energy, saying nothing about the actual damage effects of your bleeds. *

[bleak spoke]

Right now for big packs I’m doing garrotes into CT fok ruptures then vanish and then again

[lone junco]

Just need to make sure you hit the clean ones after vanish.

If your vanish is at T 18 when the others are falling off that's fine.

[bleak spoke]

Oh so it’s better to get new ones than to extend other ones?

Oh for the energy

Right

[frosty violet]

Well, in general if you cast on fresh targets you don't have to worry about clipping the dot (refreshing before max effectiveness on pandemic)

But energy too, yeah.

[lone junco]

Not e. If you can have 6 giga garrotes. Or accidentally replace an 18 with a 23.

[bleak spoke]

How would you play vendetta in this situation

Vendetta on longest living target?

And then rupture it first for exsang?

[lone junco]

This is getting too long. Afk.

I use vendetta on prio baddies.

Exang every pull.

[frosty violet]

I only use Vendetta if one target will live significantly longer or I'm struggling with energy early on. Obviously try to fit in the maximum amount of Vendetta's for a dungeon, so if you won't use in the next 2 minutes then pop anyway.

[lone junco]

With gcb.

[bleak spoke]

Alright ty

[storm zinc]

I apothecary's concoctions garbage?

[versed salmon]

is there a macro for assassin rogue where i can have sap when im stealthed and garrote when im not? also if it wont interfere with subterfuge

[sturdy python]

It can be done yes but I'd do it with mutilate instead of garrote. You want to use garrore out of stealth

Unfortunately I'm not good at macros. If you check out the sub guide there should be a useful macro they use to swap between backstab and shadowstrike. Shoukd just require the abilities to be changed and work

[versed salmon]

why not use gaarrote grom stealth @sturdy python

[sturdy python]

You do use garrote from steal th

I'm saying don't make the macro replace garrote in stealth

[red portal]

This is my char atm: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jtaZKKpZWrjztbMkFXq7ki
Any tips on what i need to focus on replacing/other Azerite or anything else that i should go for?

[plain cairn]

390 dagger in darkshore warfront 😮

[acoustic quartz]

Fuck you :p

[plain cairn]

lol

[vale verge]

Hey guys, I've been playing a rogue now for 3 weeks and i honestly thought i had a grasp of my rotation but i was very quickly humbled by the fact that i parse like crap so im def doing something wrong.

here is my character link : https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/sargeras/Ezcritz

here is my first ever run as a rogue in Uldir : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Z1gwVtXLqGnDYRNk/#fight=1&type=damage-done

[last crown]

lack of reorg stacks, lack of familiarity with the fight, bad gear, and thats not such a bad parse

mother and zek are much worse, but mother is a horrible fight to judge since its often out of your control

zek is also a little odd, but "melee" as your top damage is a bit off

honestly hard to judge given where youre at gear wise, but the best way to work on your rotation (if thats what youre asking, rather than fight specific stuff) is to learn the stickied rotation in the discord, sim yourself without raid buffs, then beat on a target dummy until you can beat your sim

[vale verge]

@last crown thanks for the quick reply. that last part is what i was def asking. i want to remove random from the equation and at least guarantee im not as big an issue in whats wrong anymore. from this im not sure if you can tell if rotation is an issue though

[last crown]

not without some super deep diving into the logs to see what the rotation looks like. much easier to check the sticky and hit a dummy

frustrating, i know, but the Sin rotation is super super easy once you get it down, shouldnt take much more than a few attempts on the dummy to be at or beating your sim if you play any other class at a decent level

the big thing to learn is to properly save your energy before envenoming so that you can be sure youll get another envenom in the window of your buffs (envenom and the yellow fucker whose name i forget)

[vale verge]

i open with double garrote (im not entirely sure why i simply do it because i read it, wish i understood why though).

i then rupture, mut, vendetta (gale trinket), toxic, mut, envenom rinse and repeat while vendetta is up and refresh dots.

[last crown]

sounds close enough to right

honestly would just beat on the dummy

if you can get within 1-3% of your simmed DPS on a dummy then ask more specifically about fights

since parsing at this point in the tier is primarily about gaming fights

i know "go look at this spreadsheet and hit a dummy till it lines up" isnt a fun answer, but its honestly the most effective way to get familiar with it

[lost horizon]

You garrote multiple times w/SS traits because it's more efficient at generating CP and you get pandemic refresh by hitting twice

[vale verge]

@last crown i think it will be fun, i enjoy the class not sure why i took so long to play it. in the 14 years i played wow never really played a rogue end game. i want to do so now for this up coming raid tier. if beating a dummy is the most efficient way then ill be beating a dummy lol

@lost horizon i have a complete miss understanding of pandemic then. i thought it was only when it was at 30% of its duration that it worked. am i wrong or is this a special case?

misunderstanding*

[visual quartz]

G R G (cds like gcb and vend) TB env. into normal rotation @vale verge is a solid open

when you Rupture back to back your losing a CP, also GRG you get a tick of powered Garrote and rupture is ticking ealier

Garrot back to back* sorry

second garrote +TB gives you 4-5cp for your first envenom, your open in Mut and TB dont crit your first Envenom could be 3cp

Sorry mised your second Mut, seems more rng, if mut TB dont crit you need mut or vice versa

[lost horizon]

@vale verge 30% is the max value

Garrote has 18sec duration, 30% of that is 5.4seconds

So if you refresh garrote early you can get a maximum of 5.4 seconds added

So, target has 1second of garrote remaining, you refresh, your new duration is 19sec

If your target instead has 10sec left on garrote and you refresh, your new duration is 23.4sec, because it's capped at 30% (5.4 sec)

[vale verge]

@lost horizon that makes sense now

so when vanishing and having SS traits double Garrote is better because we increase the length of the empowered garrote and we have the benefit of the extra CP. correct?

[lost horizon]

Yeah, it's worth the CP gen

Ideally you want to garrote - finisher - garrote

[vale verge]

hmm so is that where GRG comes from then?

[lost horizon]

Sort of

It's also a result of the 3CP rupture duration being enough for TB

And for getting pandemic rupture for exsang

[vale verge]

@lost horizon that's another question i had, i keep hearing about exsang but i never see anyone running it or parsing high (i know parses arent everything) with it. so it's confusing that if it sims better why are there not more top sims using it.

[lost horizon]

It's gear dependent

And slightly harder to use properly

But I'm sure there's ranked parses with exsang if you look

[undone verge]

GRGVMRE for exs

It’s more fun in pvp imo. I haven’t switched back to TB since using it though...

[vale verge]

also thanks for asnwering these questions, i really want to get better and the more i read the more it can get confusing as different people claim different things

[visual quartz]

started running 3xSS with Exang in M+, its so fun

[undone verge]

I’ve still using a 345 shoulder for SS.... oh well

[lost horizon]

If you're ally the drustvar emissaries drop SS shoulders

[undone verge]

I’ll just wait 10 weeks and get the 385 the vendor 🤷🏼‍♂️

[lost horizon]

Lol

[mortal gyro]

does anyone know what the best 3 pieces of azerite is for Uldir? Looking at bloodmallet, I'm guessing its one with Laser Matrix, Archive of the Titans and then last piece for Double Dose. I'm just not sure what's the best combination. hope my question makes sense.

[last crown]

Archive+DD+DD or SS+SS

[mortal gyro]

so no laser but rather double stack?

[last crown]

laser on blood is overvalued because it assumes its where youre getting reorg from

but you get the reorg from archive

[mortal gyro]

oh okay

i thought bloodmallet was updated frequently

[last crown]

it is. youre reading lazer+10

reading laser+10 and archive+10 means youre looking at 2x reorg stacks

which you only get from one of them

[mortal gyro]

oh okay

for M+ is DD+DD+SS best then?

if you going for single target mainly

[undone verge]

SS+SS+SS 🌚

[visual quartz]

If you go single target, gonna lose dmg on mobs, kinda a lose imo

plus most bosses, get SS garrtore, vanish SS garrote is still great ST

[undone verge]

Depends on your comp. might not need to worry about mobs

[visual quartz]

Yeah I suppose

3xSS just feels so good

[mortal gyro]

thanks for the help guys

[fading ocean]

must be nice having a shrouded helm

[steep obsidian]

i have been pretty lucky myself with azurite got the shrouded helm from cache at 385

have fetid chest

no shrouded shoulders but i have double dose and sob for m+

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[undone verge]

i did sob for a while before my 3x ss.

i thought about switching 1 ss for eb but my group does a lot of aoe..

is having a DD the new hotness? i see a lot more people including it

[lost sentinel]

I haven't ever got a SS helm, using the engineering one atm, pretty decent though for M+

barrage is the trait, throws a grenade that blows up into more grenades. Had it proc once on an infested and by the time the grenades landed they hit the ghuunies, was sweet

[sonic marten]

have the top rogues stopped using 2x eb 1x ss ?

[faint compass]

echo blades shoulders from assault ❤

[sonic marten]

the incursions? 375?

[faint compass]

ye

370

got 1x eb 1x ss on my setup now and the last piece we not gonna say anything xD

[jagged girder]

Has anyone noticed at times Mut is just not generating any CP.... Since the patch?

[cerulean walrus]

? No

[jagged girder]

hmmmm

maybe I am broken atm then

[cerulean walrus]

It wants you to stay sub lul

[jagged girder]

Well I play sub anyway 😄 but was just messing around with Mut and something wasnt feeling right

[undone verge]

is having an eb a big deal?

[neon thunder]

If it misses or get parred

You don't get CP

?

[sturdy python]

It's been a bug since patch and multiple people have gotten if

I had to relog

[winged forge]

I have 1 ss 1 dagger in the back sinking higher than 2 ss =/

Simming

[undone verge]

st or dungeon?

[tidal jetty]

dagger in the back sims higher than it will likely perform, since it assumes youre always behind the target. Just something to keep in mind 😉

[spark grail]

guys is double dose actually decent for assa? always used shrouded suf and archive combos for both m+ and raid but i just got a 385 peice with double dose is it worth keeping or should i d.e it for residum?

[visual quartz]

DD is great for raid

Havnt gotten one myself, I do 1xSS 1xarchive and a twisted blade, waiting for a DD

[spark grail]

if i d.e it i can buy a random peice of 385 from the vendo

but your saying i should keep

[visual quartz]

If you trust RNgesus its all you

[spark grail]

it sims quite high tbh

ill give it the time of day for now

[paper heron]

how we feelin bout those engineering goggles these days

[sturdy python]

Purty good in aoe

[undone verge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wHne6edqe7HnUgMRa84wvp

i suck

is it low because of ilvl?

[visual quartz]

seems pretty good, the 345 shoulders hurt, better looking than mine around that ilvl

[undone verge]

ya, those 375 with EB don't increase much on slice or st so i haven't switch since i'm typically in a m+ for the single target

[elfin plaza]

Endless Hunger looks really bad? Or am I crazy

[strange python]

Guys asin or outlaw for burst this week affixes ? ^^thanks

[wet wing]

why does herodamage and noxxic say the best traits for single target dps in uldir would be 2 archive and 1 twist the knife but then bloodmallet and everyone else says 1 archive and 2 double dose

what is real

[lost horizon]

Sim, you want an uldir trait to get RA

But archive/laser aren't exactly top tier without considering RA

[civic palm]

They're mid-tier without ROA yeah.

and if the fight isn't long enough to stack the buff, they become hellabad.

[lost horizon]

At least you can prestack it for M+

[wet wing]

I can use almost any combo of the best traits i just dont know how to decide what to use when every website tells me something different 😄 maybe i have to actually try stuff out myself for a change

[vale verge]

is it worth it to have non dagger off hands if they are higher ilvl?

[elfin plaza]

Need 2 daggers for Mut

[vale verge]

well there goes that lol

[undone verge]

mut not mandatory

[lost horizon]

@wet wing just sim the pieces you've got

[rustic ether]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

big razz with the ping

[slim jetty]

raidbots says that i need more haste in the Dungeon Slice Sim. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/L6q7CUb5eVSgxXqPnLY8u
But isint Mastery + Crit better? What secondarystat should i enchant?

[crimson maple]

is assassination the go to for m g'huun?

[ripe nimbus]

that feeling when having 3 Overwhelming power 2ndary traits is better then actually having 2 SS+Archive... guess 2ndary traits are better then primary omegalul

[mental fiber]

on an add that won't live for long do you use a low-cp rupture or just envenom? (lets say 10 seconds)

[slim jetty]

@mental fiber i whould use a rupture. you gain a lot of energy too

[pale agate]

a low-cp one though? a 1pt rupture lasts 8 seconds, a 2pt lasts for 12. seems like a waste to use more than 2 pts on a target living for 10 seconds, or am I wrong?

this situation comes up all the time in m+ and I always just kind of do whatever "feels" right, which is usually a 4-5pt envenom

would love some actual numbers on it

like for example, would it ever make sense to spread 2pt ruptures around to all your targets mainly for the energy regen?

or is the rule of finish at 4-5 CP pretty set in stone regardless of circumstance (but that doesn't sound right either)

[civic palm]

It's just based on the time the mob will live.

There's no point putting a 24 second DoT on something that won't live over 60% of the duration.

You don't lose damage from using a lower CP Rupture but you also don't want to replenish that Rupture because you messed up the timing applying it the first time.

So there's a margin there for making sure you have enough time on the DoT for the mob to die while it is applied but never having to reapply the DoT.

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[trail bronze]

!wa

[barren peak]

hello one of my guildies is doing progressively worse in 8.1 and i have no idea about rogue to help him. So i came here to see if i can get some help. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Z7ap19Lrg4tdjFKm#fight=15&type=summary&source=22 is a log from a vectis attempt from last night. I appreciate any feedback

[earnest pumice]

you guiys rely too much on sims 😮

[safe matrix]

cause I embrace the robot revolution

and fully admit that a computer is better at computating math than I am

especially when it as optimized and accurate as it is

[frigid sleet]

hum dude it look like your buddy doesnt have a array azerith trait to begin with @barren peak

[barren peak]

holy hell i have no idea how i didnt even see that

thats a nice dps increase in itself

[undone verge]

Ew array

[civic palm]

@safe matrix I've a Joe Rogan podcast with one Sir Roger Penrose that might alleviate that worry that you're not a computer to begin with.

Anyway... the SIM and APL can only compute what you should be doing within the rigid constructs that they operate within.

If fights don't last 5 min, have weird targeting, etc... things end up differently.

[pearl widget]

How many stacks of NP should I take on my Azerite gear 1 or 2?

[civic palm]

2nd stack seems to give ~66% of the first stacks value, so you would probably be better off finding something else to replace it with if it has better returns.

[versed mica]

Anyone else feel like sin is a lot more slow-paced this expack?

[civic palm]

IIRC in Legion we were ~34apm, now we're ~37apm.

End of Legion was madness though.

[versed mica]

Doesn't haste effect our apm tho?

end of legion was crazy though, I sorta miss it

[civic palm]

We lost regen from Venomous Wounds to compensate for the increase in regen from Haste.

[safe matrix]

also t21 set bonus

[civic palm]

ye

[gray citrus]

are the stats for sin still haste/crit

or is it haste/mastery now

or is it

[dark token]

in my experience playing exsang its like haste > mastery >= crit > vers

[cobalt gyro]

thats about what mine are

with agi thrown somewhere in there between haste and vers

[fringe estuary]

Anyone got any good reccomendations for target panel addons?

[dark token]

if you mean target nameplates, kui

its pretty good config out of the box

[primal gazelle]

i use Plater

super customizable

[narrow kettle]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

[next grotto]

Guys, do you have problem with WA?

[civic palm]

Nope.

[next grotto]

All my WA are fucked up

[civic palm]

Interesting.

[next grotto]

And if I try to import another one, I just can't do it

Tried to reinstall WA but nothing changed

[civic palm]

There's a little check box that stops imports, that might be ticked.

There was also an update very recently so make entirely sure that you have the latest WA (though that shouldn't break anything I think).

[distant dew]

Is it the problem where everything shows as questionmarks?

[next grotto]

It's like, I import a WA, i can see it on the imported WA, but it doesn't work

[civic palm]

Can I get a screenshot meebee?

[distant dew]

Take a screenshot for me

[next grotto]

Y coming

[distant dew]

The lastest WA update turned on the ''Cooldown'' option for every single WA I had - so it could be that yours fucked up the loading options

[civic palm]

Yeah there is also some issues with some SpellIDs needing to be updated manually to get them to work.

Pretty obvious when that's the issue though as the Trigger doesn't have the spell there as it should.

[stone crescent]

Is echoing blades any good in keys now after the massive nerf?

[civic palm]

Requires many mobs.

Constantly.

[paper heron]

There was an eb nerf?

[civic palm]

Day of release yes.

[paper heron]

What ?

[late moat]

maybe some off top but any tips to find new static for m+ since my current one died

[dusk sun]

rip

[ember pulsar]

It got nerf before I had chance to test it on EU realm ;_;

[acoustic cave]

its still good

[ember pulsar]

Yeah

With eb x2 you can do 95 perfo on Mythic Zul

That's funny

[acoustic cave]

I tested it on ptr before nerf it was wayy too crazy my FoK hit 1m Echoing blade did 3.7m

nerf was needed

[civic palm]

That wasn't even the nerf. There was tuning before the patch release but it was still too much.

[acoustic cave]

yea it should've been %50

[final hull]

can i ask : How EB really works ?

[civic palm]

What do you mean by "really works"?

[final hull]

what is it doing

[civic palm]

It does exactly what it says on the tooltip.

No mystery to it.

[final hull]

ok when i use FoK

every 5th crit have bonus dmg ?

[thin patio]

no every crit with fok does additionnal echoing blades, up to 5 times

[civic palm]

For each of the first 5 critical strikes, it will fire a second spray of knives at that location

For EACH of the FIRST 5 CRITICAL STRIKES...

[final hull]

ah this is it , it can spray additional EB up to 5 times

[civic palm]

The trait triggers up to 5 times per FoK and does its' own damage at the location of the critical strikes generated by FoK.

[final hull]

ok thank , and if i can ask : which traits is recomended for M+ and for Raid

[civic palm]

Item level is going to dictate that for raids, for M+ mostly Shrouded Suffocation + Anything that doesn't work ONLY in Single Target.

Can check;

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ for Raid traits

and

https://raider.io/ for M+ traits.

[fresh dock]

is it worth spending titanium to get a random 385 azerite piece?

[high siren]

I would wait for the new stuff

[signal summit]

Depends, If u still progress it might be

If not i would save

[final hull]

Is there good to take Exsanguinate + Poison bomb in M+ ?

[little cedar]

DD get stacked?

if i have x2

[normal spear]

exs + PB is good for m+, yes. if your group consistently pulls 4+ packs, go CT

yes, DD damage stacks

[rose sapphire]

should I run archieve or 1 eb for m+?

whats better 1x archieve vs 1x eb

for m+

[strange python]

I'm in love with 1eb 2ss even on this week.

Seems to be working well

[undone verge]

1 eb = about same overall dps as 3x ss right (less st/more aoe)

[normal spear]

i don't think so. SS would be more

unless you're gigapulling the whole dungeon and blast with EB

[dull compass]

Started playing sin a while ago but only used exsang so far, tb started to sim higher, but should I take it on every fight in Uldir ? Are there some criteria when to use exsang, like for example why is exsang the talent mostly used on vectis and not in any other fight ?

[mystic shard]

eb? And why are SS so low on the trait rankingsif it`s still so goo?

good

[normal spear]

SS is low on rankings? where?

[mystic shard]

I mean the bloodmallet thingie

Sp EB is obviously Echiong blades. Forgive me for the shit questions 😃

[nocturne gate]

ss is lower if u play without exang theres a tap where u can change between exang and tb build

on herodamage

[mystic shard]

Oh

Ty mate

[rose sapphire]

whats better 1x archieve vs 1x eb
for m+

[normal spear]

@dull compass, exsang is usually used with high haste/galecaller's boon. it's also used in order to focus short-living adds, because normal bleeds won't have enough time to deal damage

but on vectis, hm. TB seems better to me, it's always up for every add

[frail escarp]

laser matrix still bugged in m+?

[vernal shadow]

@frail escarp Nah that has been fixed

I'm trying to figure out why my 380 dagger is simming lower than my 370. Stats look perfect, but everytime I sim it's not equiped

https://gyazo.com/4d756a8de9a5256ee3d86edbf5b9fbc9

[spice surge]

Pawn doesnt take offhand dps into account

It always counts with mainhand dps, which of course is WASTLY different than offhand dps

[vernal shadow]

Oh really? So pawn's giving it a bit of a bump up? I could just swear that the Shiv was BIS before raid

[spice surge]

?

The question is if a socket is worth more than 16 offhand dps, 14 agi and 4 secondaries.

Which it definitely is

[cold tulip]

but the stats on the 380 are better 🤔

[narrow sedge]

it depend of the value of the stats for your optimization

I mean for exemple : haste give you +2 dps per point

[vernal shadow]

I updated all my stat weights as well, but everything points towards the 380 dagger being better. But everytime I sim it, its doesn't sim higher

[narrow sedge]

so you should calculate if 16 offhand dps x value + 14agi x value + 4 sec x value is more or less than 40 haste x value

[spice surge]

As i said, pawn only calculates mainhand dps

[vernal shadow]

I'm siming my char on Riadbots, not worrying about Pawn

[spice surge]

So why would you think that the 380 would be better then?

If you look at your stat weights, you'll see that a socket is worth way more than those 10 ilvls

A socket is typically worth around 25-30 ilvls on offhand

[vernal shadow]

Oh really? I mean its showing 0.2% difference, so it's not night and day. I just didn't expect it

[spice surge]

Most gear upgrades are just small, they just add up together

[strange python]

Hey guys, my friend is in trouble he want to spend some titanium on azerite armor, so what are best traits for m+ 2x SS 1 scent? 2xSS FoK ? or maybe 2 foks 1xSS thanks a lot !

[velvet kernel]

is one eb worht

or still 3 ss?

[distant dew]

Daily reminder that a socket is worth 10-15 ilvls for most classes @vernal shadow.

Mostly likely the reason

[obsidian girder]

quick navigation on mainhand or deadly ?

[rose sapphire]

Does it matter?

[obsidian girder]

not sure. some guides say quick on main. and if i sim myself it tells me to do deadly on main

[violet sonnet]

Exsang still used or is it PB all the way now

TB*

[tepid fractal]

better go with crit on highest ilvl weapon

so u can change mastery-haste weapons

[obsidian girder]

ah okay nice. thank you

[jade chasm]

For what situation @violet sonnet ?

[violet sonnet]

Mythic +'s

[vernal shadow]

I've been running TB+Crimson in almost all my M+'s

Only 15's though, nothing crazy

[jade chasm]

I've been running Exsang+PB but generally smaller pulls due to new tank, try both out and see how you feel?

[pliant nest]

afaik exsang is still the go-to in m+ right?

[tepid fractal]

exsang way better in m+

[vernal shadow]

I must just be really bad at utilizing it, should probs practice

[tepid fractal]

y requires some practice, didnt play with it since en

[brazen prairie]

are there any reports on 3xEB with Master Assassin and Hidden Blades in M+?

i guess it would work if group does huge pulls and also being a NElf might boost it even further

[tepid fractal]

dont try that

[wheat zealot]

Stacking EB isent the go-to, you only really want x1

[west cove]

1xEB and 2xSS ❤️

[brazen prairie]

ok ty! 😃

[cunning blaze]

Hey, is there any reason alot of rogues are stacking crit above 30% now in m+?

[dull compass]

@normal spear Thanks for the reply :>

[tepid fractal]

big pulls and more profit with crimson tempest

[plain thistle]

30%? we dont aim for a specific value, crit is just good for AoE and dungeons, so we focus on that

[brazen prairie]

i think its so u can get full cp on each fok global so u apply ruptures faster (?)

[plain thistle]

crit is algo very good for single target

[brazen prairie]

btw does SS still loose its effect if u apply a garrotte after subfuge?

[plain thistle]

no

that was fixed a long time ago

[brazen prairie]

ty good to hear ><

[tepid fractal]

@brazen prairie not raptures. u just crimson over and over on big pulls

[echo night]

Is 21% haste outside uldir overkill as assass?

[marble hemlock]

you still rupture for energy on big pulls

[echo night]

Ofc u rupture on big pulls O.o

[marble hemlock]

was in response to couriersix

as for content outside uldir, depends on what youre doing

dont think it matters much for WQs and stuff

for m+ you wanna drop that haste though and get more crit/mastery

[echo night]

I know :p just backing u up xD

Yea im only going haste for this week tho since im playing PB

Finally got Boon tho so thinking of dropping the haste and stacking crit mastery

Are people playing CT in keys regardless of fortified or tyrannical?

[hollow stone]

I always run ct in m+. Its likely not optimal for EVERY situation but its easy and it feels weird doing m+ without it. Would depend on your group, pull size, and the specific key (dungeon and lvl)

[echo night]

Il really liking PB with 1x echo 2x SS tho

Im*

[hollow stone]

People say pb for kr, for example

[echo night]

True

Small packs all the way

[hollow stone]

Honestly, its not a big enough difference if youre not doing big boy keys so play what you like

Highest ive pushed is 17 so im not crazy big boi like @marble hemlock

[echo night]

Btw is Nothing Personal completely useless?

Heard people write about it being nerfed

[hollow stone]

And one thing a lot of people forget is that ct cost cp where pb doesnt. So pb is a straight dps increase in that regard but if youre comparing the two you need to do pb + whatever you would be doing with the cps if not ct vs. Ct dmg

I havent played with it so idk

Afaik its a middle of the pack trait

[marble hemlock]

just comparing pb/ct numbers is a bad approach in general, since CT comes at an opportunity cost of having less envenoms and thus poison procs as well

and makes the rotation harder to play in general

everyone whos just starting out, has low crit, or goes to a dungeon with low trashcount like kr/temple, just play PB

[hollow stone]

Let's just pretend i said it as eloquently as seli

:p

[warm sable]

What is low crit for m+

[undone verge]

0%

[dusk sun]

xD

i remember dpsing almost the same with pb and ct

[echo cargo]

@echo night who said NP was nerfed?

[dusk sun]

its neck to neck if u ask me

was it tho? I dont think so

[echo cargo]

I don’t think so lol

[dusk sun]

@warm sable if u could get to 20% or so it'll be gucci

are we still going for SS traits 3x?

or we abandoned that ship already

the addon i have says it has a low power weight

its 1 out of 10 lol

[slim olive]

Do you have the correct import?

SS is still finee

[dusk sun]

does it auto import if i update via twitch?

[slim olive]

Uhhh

Nope? you have to import the string manually. You may have default scales on idk

[dusk sun]

thanks man

how are ppl playing EB? with MA?

[echo night]

Im using 1x EB with 2x SS

Nothing changed rotationwise only more burst and if i have hight stacks on dead eye amd deadly navi i use fan on ST instead of mutu

Muti

[dusk sun]

im using 2 eb 1 ss xD

which talent are u rollingwith?

[echo night]

If you play 2+ EB id imagine going master assassing

[outer vortex]

So i have a question (read for a while never really asked anything).

If crit is > haste for M+ why are the sims (dungeon slice) showing more dps when i switch from crit(2) gems and both ring enchants to haste.
I know that the dungeon slice contains a boss fight

[echo night]

Im still using subt since 2x SS

Its taking boss fights into consideration

Haste is bis on ST fights thats all

[outer vortex]

yeah, thats what i figured - but just wanted to check

😦 Cant get EB or SS 385 piece

[echo night]

Got 2x 385 SS xD

[outer vortex]

2x DD and 1 dagger

[echo night]

Only 375 EB tho :(

[outer vortex]

so boss fights im fine 😛

thats probably part of the haste>crit sims too

[echo night]

Yup

I got 21% haste, crit mastery sims better than haste on dung slice now

[outer vortex]

depending on gems/enchants im at 23crit 19haste 26mast or 26/17/26

So assuming i get even a 375 SS or EB, i assume its worth it to run that over 385

havent seen a single SS item ever 😭

[wary ice]

m+ w/o SS feels like shit.

THats some feelcraft for you

I'd drop ~30ilvls or so for 1st SS

maybe 5 for 2nd

IDK

I'd sim past 1st tbh

[slim olive]

^

[wary ice]

I mean real talk is still the truth

But honestly fuck playing sin w/o SS

trait makes the spec imo

[cobalt gyro]

big agree on feeling bad w/o ss

[outer vortex]

guess i dont know what im missing because ive never gotten one lol

[cobalt gyro]

unless i sim significantly worse, i'm probably gonna be running SS traits

[wary ice]

Ur missing having a real opener

[outer vortex]

yeah

[lost tree]

is it worth going for Engineer only for the Bomb trait?^^

[dense delta]

why is spy-glass BiS trinket for add-cleave on bloodmallet?

what two trinkets are BiS in m+? dice and ..... ?

[stark mirage]

How do you guys successfully sap horsemob at bridge, in freehold?

need a shadowstep-sap macro ?

[wary ice]

Cause crit is good in add cleave

Sim yo self fam

generally you want a boon and a proc'd stat stick

[hollow stone]

Gcb, dice, spyglass, golden plumage (if no gcb), on use pvp trinket (if no gcb). These would be my recommendations to aim for for m+

My gcb is 355 cause rng sucks so i use spyglass and dice

[undone verge]

i have 340 gcb and it's great, as long as you can stand in it

[hollow stone]

It sims lower for me

[wary ice]

GCB is great even w/o standingin it

Exsang snapshots haste

[hollow stone]

With xsang

Yea

[wary ice]

if ur not running xsang stop running low ilvl gcb 😦

[undone verge]

if you're not running exsang go play dh

[hollow stone]

Dh is for noobs

[wary ice]

So is TB :^)

[hollow stone]

Lol, fair point

[undone verge]

dh was my first real raiding experience in wow... now all other characters are so "complex" ~_~

[wary ice]

End of antorus havoc rotation was just nervous energy

left chaos strike right

[undone verge]

i like my rogue, if it wasn't for the feint, stealth, evasion, cloak, shroud, sap, vial, stuns, shadow step... i'd definitely play something else

[wary ice]

I'm surprised how much i enjoy bleed spreading tbh

[undone verge]

hmmm i like it, with like 3 enemies, when i have 1000 nameplates on my screen and trying to decipher them while avoiding bad, i'm not enjoying it

[wary ice]

I got wa's for that

just tab target till no rupture timer

-->rupture

[undone verge]

i track garrote/rupture/kidneys

but i don't like staring at my WA during a fight

[wary ice]

I dont use the fancy stuff in !wa

I just have a timer

[undone verge]

same

i like to be able to watch the sweat on the enemies forehead as i'm attacking

[wary ice]

Hmm

Different strokes I guess

Inever had an issue looking at /not standing in shit

[undone verge]

i pvp more than pve so i watch the whole screen

[wary ice]

Have you done pvp since 8.1?

[undone verge]

ya i have

[wary ice]

I'm like scared tos tart cause they removed deadly brew which i crutched on and dnow i dk how to play the spec

Def need to again though; cant afford my reroll tokens

[undone verge]

just practice with 1v1 with friends or something. take advantage of cc/restealth

[supple hearth]

You still play the same. Just don't have the extra damage from dp

[undone verge]

i used to do arms so swapping to rogue was a bit rough but i spent a night in wpvp getting my alliance slayer title and i ended up loving it

[wary ice]

my favorite thing to do is sap allies at summon stones and walk away

[scenic nacelle]

Sapping allies that are a second away from hearthing out Kek

[wary ice]

def did that to a pally

made him go back into the underrot

[echo night]

Wow, hidden blades sim better on dungeon slice than CT does :O

Thats with 1x EB

[sturdy python]

The slice doesn't pull big enough or have high health enemies for CT to shine

[muted pike]

Is assassinton rogue better ?

Now

[grizzled orbit]

For what?

[muted pike]

Pve

[grizzled orbit]

What difficulty?

[muted pike]

High

[grizzled orbit]

Sub---Outlaw--Assas (in the right hands that is)

[wary ice]

Ass is only good on thick difficulty, unfortuantely

outlaw beats us on high.

[muted pike]

Wow that’s sad

[grizzled orbit]

Outlaw is better for hump bosses such as Zek' Voz. The heavy AOE is just so good.

[wary ice]

Sorry i guess my joke was too subtle.

[grizzled orbit]

thicc*

[keen sandal]

D e b a t a b l e

[sturdy python]

What's best depends on fight and situation, assassin is probably the best all around

[languid dawn]

laser matrix or archive of titans for M+?

Is laser better for AOE?

[young meteor]

Pretty sure laser is still bugged and pulls random mobs

One archive for m+ is good.

[short prism]

Laser Matrix in M+ is normally a bad idea in general.

[echo night]

No

What build would be optimal for 2x EB 1x SS? Standard CT/PB with subtrefuge?

[candid mica]

yeah

ct/ subt

[dense delta]

Guys, I have 3 trinkets (370) - which one are better for m+ ? Dead-Eye Spyglass, Azerroks Heart, Construct Overcharger.

I had no luck in Freehold so far...

[stable pine]

Dead-eye

[lone remnant]

If I am running +14 keys, with Exsang/ Crimson Tempest, do I need 2 Shrouded suffs to optimize? Or can I swap one for an Archive? 3rd trait is Echoing Blades.

[undone verge]

3 ss go

[alpine rain]

can i use sword as offhand?

as sin

i know outlaw / sub can use dagger / sword offhand

not sure about sin tho

[lost tree]

you need 2 Daggers for Mutilate as far as i know

[civic palm]

o _o

2 daggers

[alpine rain]

Ah rip

[winged forge]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[static hedge]

poison bomb or CT for around +14 level?

[supple hearth]

Depends on dungeon and how much ur tank pulls

4+ mobs = ct
1-3 = pb

[fringe estuary]

Am I supposed to tb before or after applying bleeds

[sturdy python]

After

And on cd

Guide should explain well

[safe matrix]

ideally you dont refresh bleeds in TB window

but you TB on cd regardless

and yes read the guide

[fringe estuary]

Why wouldn't you want to refresh bleeds during TB?

[safe matrix]

because envenom is buffed in that window and you'd rather be casting that

[fringe estuary]

Ah for some reason I was thinking bleeds were nature damaghe also lol

[safe matrix]

hi tisumi

[fringe estuary]

Dont gotta be a dick tisumi

just saying

[safe matrix]

how is that being a dick, they're just explaining why

[fringe estuary]

condescending?..

[safe matrix]

I guess if someone expecting others to read their tooltips is condescending we're all doomed

[fringe estuary]

You clearly don't know the definition of condescending then