and I'm strictly talking about KR right now
#assassination
strange python
np is pretty trashy for m+
Even tyran where you spend the majority of ur time killing trash anyways
candid mica
if all you're doing is keys i'd still run eb instead of blight
you can swap it for kr if you want
but waste of gold imo
wary ice
5 gold KR tax :^(
old lagoon
Who even raids anymore it’s all about M+
wary ice
Its like prepotting every pull
old lagoon
But yeah that’s true on NP. Though I guess there are some dungeons where bosses could make up half the time like shrine perhaps
wary ice
15 gold < pot money
candid mica
having blight over eb won't make the difference
wary ice
u can probably just convince ur tank to pull 2nd boss with blobs. and 3rd boss with the pack on top of the stairs
EB = worth now :^)
primal gazelle
def not pull into boss with necrotic lol
crimson maple
Is there any data on the new wb trinket from darkshore?
old lagoon
That sounds like a surefirr way to wipe
wary ice
:^( eb probably not worth it in KR then
u get value on like ....2? pulls
maybe up that to 4 if you do first boss room in 2
primal gazelle
the packs to the 3rd boss has 5-6 mobs each
candid mica
if you're doing the right pathing in kr
primal gazelle
on the bridge
wary ice
also big fan of "ASSSS" being a set name
primal gazelle
8 pulls compared to how many total?
strange python
The blobs make it worth bro111!!
old lagoon
Not “worth”. Just fun to see big numbers 😛
old lagoon
No not at all
primal gazelle
pummpppping
wary ice
if ur not padding are you even playing?
primal gazelle
i pot even in 10s just to see big numbers
candid mica
you're crazy
ruby idol
Play sub in kr pull boss with blobs kite blobs so never melee 4d chess
candid mica
play outlaw and pull blobs with boss
ruby idol
PADDER
primal gazelle
im the type of guy that would throw knives at a nearby pack mid-pull just to pad my dmg 🤔
old lagoon
You lost me at play outlaw
primal gazelle
"i had no idea how that pulled"
wary ice
isnt outlaw good now?
old lagoon
It’s not bad but damage tied to random chance feels bad
wary ice
🤔
candid mica
it's good fort week
wary ice
I havent played outlaw cause if im going to play fury im just going to play fury
candid mica
and probably every week in freehold
wary ice
i just know its AoE is rediculous
and its stun is in rotation so it deals with casters really well (ie: the avg shitter will actually stun)
old lagoon
Only in rotation with DS right?
wary ice
IDFK
bullfango:I havent played outlaw cause if im going to play fury im just going to play fury
old lagoon
Would you guys play engineering helm over EB with 2 SS?
candid mica
at 385?
old lagoon
Ye
candid mica
maybe
i'd have to test the trait out a bit, haven't played with it before
it probably depends on how much crit you have
old lagoon
It seems pretty strong on bloodmallet for hectic but worse than EB. That doesn’t tell the whole story though I think
umbral hemlock
EB = Echoing blades SS = Shrouded suffocation? Is this the go to?
umbral hemlock
So anywhere I can find a written guide on this?
lone junco
Pretty sure aethys wrote the section for wowhead. But i haven't checked it in a while.
Else the ravenholdt guide is in the header link here.
umbral hemlock
aight, thanks. gonna check it out
sacred ore
guys, shrouded mantle or resounding protection?>
devout glen
anyone done any raid testing to see if the new raid is as melee stacking punishing as uldir was?
ocean sparrow
every piece of gear i seem to get on my rogue has verse. 😦 395 socketed crit verse boots.
hollow jungle
what do we have to do to get blizz to put vendetta on reset with bosses...fuckin hell
spice surge
A cd needs 3 min or more to be reset is the rule
undone verge
just afk for 3 mins
fiery sage
Hmm supterfuge still dont proc with vanish? dident they fix it like right awaY?
old lagoon
yeah its been fixed.
fiery sage
Hmm okey i dont get it tho when i vanish
sacred ore
hey guys, Impassive visage or resounding protection?
cobalt gyro
resounding is v good mitigation
impassive is ok, but it's much better on say, tanks, or healers
muted jacinth
impassive yields twice the amount of healing vs resounding, but only if you're constantly taking damage every 6s. on ghuun I took impassive but in general resounding has more uses (m+ etc)
old lagoon
probably a case to be made Sub performs better where it matters @supple compass due to it being a mini boss centric dungeon with a lot of priority targets and sub simming potentially more ST, but it's probably so close its just preference.
muted jacinth
Resounding is a good go to for overall. yes they do stack
primal gazelle
sub is still a thing?
modest badge
nupe
supple compass
poison bomb or ct for waycrest
arctic venture
strange python
Don't use CT in kings rest or temple fo seth
vestal zodiac
vestal stump
You mean 2 on use? I wouldn't recommend it unless you don't have a choice. Using one trinket puts the other on a 30s CD which can so lining them up with other CDs can be a headache. Better off having one passive and one active @arctic venture
strange python
^
ebon tapir
Anyone know why simdps is so low for ilvl? seen like 18k and i feel like im missing something...
royal lantern
wait...
thats weird?
it should be way higher
maybe do the sim again? and check if all details are right, but looks like it
ebon tapir
Cause like in terms of actual raid I easily do 18k like I thought it'd be around which is why I'm confused loll
royal lantern
you should be around 18,7k with that setup if im right?
you have a shitton of lucky traits and slots etc.....idk why it is so low
ebon tapir
yeah lemme dig around for logs just to double check the actual dps for a patchwerk kinda fight
royal lantern
maybe sim is just broken
ebon tapir
oh for real? that'd make sense lemme try again
ebon tapir
There we go lol now I just need a Mythic piece for the trait and it'd be alot nice
nicer*
sonic marten
the engineering helm seems good to me - shrug, it has double dose and the other outer ring traits seem decent too?
you can't make it yet anyway right until 8.1.5?
slow acorn
I was referring to the 370 one
It has relational normalization gizmo
synaptic spark capacitor
barrage of many bombs
ricocheting inflatable pyrosaw
I took the relational Normalization Gizmo cause I thought its nice to have either 622 primary stat and 15k health or 882 haste and 25% movement speed
vestal wren
you can add the versa via enchant if its missing
spare flame
Anyone have any insight into how good the Darkshore trinket is? I dont see it on sims
sonic marten
you can just top gear sim yourself can't you?
err compare gear rather
on raidbots
just put your current character on it and then click add item and pick the darkshore trinket and then click compare gear at the bottom
lusty narwhal
Whats everyone doing for the profession items next patch
spice surge
Trinket isnt too amazing though
muted swallow
So is Shrouded suffocation still the go to trait? I see more traits are simming higher
pliant sorrel
helm is pretty decent, dead shot, keep wits and double dose
n overwhelming power/heed
i swore they were fixing twist the knife but i guess not?
still shit trait
austere scarab
spice surge
Generally no
lusty narwhal
Whats the 415 ring from JC like
civic palm
It's if you really like VERS > _>
dark crag
Go sub, but it looks like crit/mastery will be top for sub
boreal canyon
Hey guys is it worth to double stack nothing personal?
onyx rock
🤷 
civic palm
lone junco
I dont like sub in general, but that TFD being stronger than 10x Archive gave me a chubb
I wouldnt bother tbh.
but
I dabbled with DD and it was pretty lame. So when I play sin, it will be ss exang.
It just feels better, and at < 0.4% loss i dont think I mind.
Im just worried that it wont scale with 2traits
but I could probably scrap EB. I was so pissed running it yesterday
got beat for the first time ovreall dmg by a guildy
Tank kept stopping short pulling 2-3. I wanted to yell. So here im with the fat cleave donger ready to bop some shit, and came up limp.. and 9k st
lm?
I should weave NP in for st. see where it lands.
could prob do 1archive 1np 1ss.
1 more socket than me.
that must be where the 2.8k extra dps came from.
civic palm
No new gems coming Battle ye?
lone junco
its like Im not even trying.
ugh dd.
oh well.
that setup is like 370
it was like 12 dps difference when i checked
this is neat addition.
dont need to rely on raider Io to see how bad we are.
what a fun day.
lone junco
recently one of our dps rerolled healer. I would honestly carry a 2nd healer doing like 3dps than have a gimp healer in M+
warped siren
is Echoing Blades really good? should I take it over Archive during fortified weeks?
lone junco
but sure. sim it to be sure
"really good" is not the way I would describe it. It buffs your fok white damage substantially, and if you have high crit (35-40) Eb proc is nice. but you need to pull big. or dont bother.
neat pull from seli.
frank sentinel
it's very niche. zero value on boss fights and small pulls, so even more restrictive than say a DH choosing fel barrage or trail of ruin
gotta pull giga
frank sentinel
there are plenty of DHs that run fel barrage if the group is pulling big
primal gazelle
memeing hard with 2eb 1 DD 14 Atal
#1 on boss dmg on rezan, yazma, #2 dps on vol'kaal by 100 dps
civic palm
Just pull more.
primal gazelle
wouldve def lost in overall dmg if i went 2 ss instead since some packs the trash just died 10 secs in before my dots could ramp up
lone junco
Yeah. The fokfokfok is nice.
lone junco
These questions boggle me.
midnight flower
Outlaw on ghunn :🤔:
sturdy python
What's his reason?
ruby idol
So tell him then
midnight flower
Cause he wants to be #1 dps in phase 1 😆
ruby idol
8.1 sub is actually probably the real play
pallid otter
did they fix the vanish/sub bug?
sturdy python
Yes jfk
pallid otter
dank, thank you
sturdy python
All 3 do enough St I think but sub is def the better pick there atm
spice ice
What are good talentss to run in dungeons?
strange python
it doesn't matter which enchant is on which hand, does it?
civic palm
Proof of that?
civic palm
the guide?
frigid sleet
doubt you saw that in any guide
vapid moth
man PB damage so dissapointing
if i proc 3 PB on 6-7 ads it should still not be only 15% of my damage
frozen karma
Old poison bomb pepeHands
civic palm
Oh yeah real disappointing > _>
strange python
I know it used to but I didn't think it did anymore
steep obsidian
Shoulder bombs ftw
red prawn
this asn rogue just looted a dagger and bonus rolled one on Mythic Mother lmao oh and both were socketed
lavish spruce
pearl widget
Laser Matrix or Nothing Personal?
dark token
after like 4 weeks of 50 dps upgrades finally went up like 400 dps on a raid night, feels good
echo cargo
NP if you're just getting one
pearl widget
I have the option of NP for helm and chest but the helm also has LM
helm and shoulders***
chest has Shrouded Suffocation, Double Dose, or Twist the Knife
gusty plinth
sim
signal summit
1dd 1 arch 1 NP Sims best for me
languid dawn
is lazer matrix still broken?
civic palm
Nope.
languid dawn
So its no longer pulling adds?
nimble tartan
yeah ive been running 1dd 1np 1 archive and its SUPEER good
i feel like a strong boy
obsidian girder
How do i play with Exsanguinate. Like if i got rupture and garrote up but only at 20s. should i refresh them and then do Exsanguinate or should i just Exsanguinate on cd no matter whats the time of rupture and garrote ?
i want to min max as good as it's possible^^
signal summit
@nimble tartan do u adjust anything If u go ma and np?
nimble tartan
no not really u play it the same basically
onyx rock
@obsidian girder du erneuerst rupture falls es unter 20 sek. ist und garrote falls es in pandemic range ist (5,4 sek) sonst nicht. Schön das du wieder spielst btw. 😉
obsidian girder
@onyx rock ah perfekt des fassts zusammen danke
oha haha woher kennst du mich 
onyx rock
ich schicke dir ne pm warte
ornate gazelle
Is Blindside worth running for G'huun progression if you keep wiping at around 1.5 mil? Or is it still less than EP?
lone junco
hrm.
signal summit
Not sure If meme or not
Yes u use stealth
Cuz u have a entire row that makes ur spells more poweful from stealth
Im avtually not sure If meme or Nah
frozen pecan
how are they more powerful?
I have a hard time seeing my character when I go into stealth
so I never know where I am
thats why I am asking
shrewd pine
lone junco
did you try Aethys rotation helper? might have stealth as an option
quaint flare
😒
quaint flare
hardy sequoia
Running m+ 2xss + EB or 2xEB + 1xss?
frozen pecan
??
quick ice
magic nelfy. magic
frozen pecan
very funny spoce
signal summit
U download simc and copy into the program or raidbots, u can prob youtube it
solid nova
Dont feed the troll.
cobalt gyro
is there a video on how to step up to the upper level in mythic ghuun?
cobalt gyro
does that only work on left side?
solid nova
P sure, its just scuffed in general
cobalt gyro
mm, that might be why i can't get it then
solid nova
You can have a lock port up there and step to the player too
cobalt gyro
rogues aren't allowed to have fun skipping that 
pastel wasp
uhh meant for wow-gen lol
final hull
what u prefer more , Double Dose ar Nothing Personal?
pastel wasp
DD
signal summit
1 dd 1 NP imo
winter gale
Nothing Personal, DD and archieve for singletarget in Raid?
nimble tartan
my guild wont do 3rd room strat 😦
signal summit
Unluck guild
nimble tartan
i need more ALLSTAR
signal summit
A l l s t a r z
nimble tartan
idk my guild doesnt really do cheese or any special shit and im like 20 points awy from top 5
vocal rain
!stat
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
dark crag
So many ppl play sub, rank 2 was only 98%
final hull
ok boys , best traits for dung and for raid
devout jolt
have stat prios changed at all? I've been away for a bit and its now telling me mastery is top for me but I havent really replaced much gear recently.
winter moss
away for how long
devout jolt
4/5 weeks
winter moss
should not have changed that much but sims may vary depending on your stats and traits
some trait have been reworked and may favor other stats
devout jolt
just find it odd how haste is 3rd when it was top last. Hmm yeah I am using 2 x DD. Just wanted to know, will obviously follow the sims. Ty
winter moss
unless you have an horrendous amount of haste or you are simming multitarget haste should keep up easily
winter moss
you gucci
devout jolt
sims telling me to regem my 3 gems to mastery and enchant my rings t mastery too ha
winter moss
links pls xd
winter moss
the purple bar on the left shows sidegrades
enchanting everything with mast infact brings you *0.1% upgrade
as tisumi said dw
devout jolt
sweet, i know its only saying 0.5% increase but yeah, was an odd result to get from what i was use too, thanks for the help
lost sentinel
Reorigination Array Stacks 10
That's prob why you don't need haste
that's 750 of your highest secondary stat, assuming it's haste, yeah you prob don't need more haste while in uldir lol
devout jolt
keep forgetting about that stack
azure ice
guys is shrouded suffocation still the best trait in m+
cerulean prairie
Would there be anyone willing to work with me on my rotation and DPS? I have no idea what I'm doing wrong to have such mediocre DPS.
solid nova
Link logs 😄
cerulean prairie
prime void
solid nova
- You're opening completely wrong; the guide has openers for different trait setups.
- Tripple mutilates, over capping your CP: Finish on 4+
- You're on average only getting 1 envenom out of your TB windows, you should be aiming for 2+, but that directly relates to your extra mutilates too.
- Your vendetta usage is questionable
- You're not pe-potting or second potting on some fights
- Your traits are bad 😄
I'd start with the guide mate, you're missing a lot of basics
You tripple mutilate alot too.
And thats just looking really briefly.
cerulean prairie
@solid nova thank you could I shoot you a pm?
solid nova
Sure
strange python
Is mythrax padding mostly related to how long adds are up in intermission ?? And ofc redotting ad before it disappears
weak tundra
Hey, sorry if this has been asked many times before, but finally got my hands on a Galecaller's. Do you wait 15 seconds to always line it up with exsang or just exsang on CD and use every second trinket with vendetta?
jade chasm
Your answer is in the pins 🙂
weak tundra
oof, sorry. thanks nonetheless
jade chasm
Grats on the trinket 🙂
strange python
2 Echo 1 SS isnt that good for this week right? 🤔
cunning pebble
Depends on how big pulls you are doing and your comp
hearty junco
does shadowmeld work with subterfuge?
strange python
I use 2 echo 1 ss because i dont have yet second SS for me its great i focus more on garrote 3-4 ct than fok rupture fok rupture ... ... but you get used to pressing fok because u know you have trait, that can be sometimes bad for examp. In tol dagor fok goes trough walls and pull. So suffer smaller dps than wipe in dungeon like tol dagor 😃
And i stick with 11-13 haste just in case I fail rupture or something because energy rege.
spice surge
In dungeons yes, in raids no
cunning pebble
Really?
strange python
For lower haste u need to focus max on dots on start or when tank pulls and u are not im steath while u set up dots izs kina shit dps 😃
@strange python
winter moss
then play outlaw
sterile chasm
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Cxmd8WH7pVtXMJaZ#fight=4 What i am doing bad 😣😣😣
tepid fractal
nah, dont like when gameplay depends on rng
winter moss
go play mage
tepid fractal
@sterile chasm on mother?
sterile chasm
@tepid fractal aye i dont need to do here alot so its good fight to check my fails
winter moss
@sterile chasm
you basically envenom with max 2 cp after that opener
you cast rupture, TB, then instant envenom
you dont give a shit on your cp
winter moss
*everytime
tepid fractal
i actually 1st time hearing this
sturdy python
Because you don't do it
winter moss
first time it's probably 4 cp
winter moss
try to plan ahead, dont refresh bleed inside tb window if possible
tender walrus
hey guys havent played for a while, how's assa rogue looking for the next raid?
sterile chasm
@winter moss ok so i refresh my bleeds then Tb and go multi until 4 y?
winter moss
after 133secs , you cast rupture the last time, the fight lasted 169sec
tepid fractal
@tender walrus stable. good.
winter moss
basically yes
tender walrus
cool thanks, what about the other rogue specs? better/worse?
lone junco
Sub got a st bump and a shurekin nerf.
sterile chasm
so i was 12 sec without rupture i guess was thinking on the end of fight to improve my dps is better to Env till the end
lone junco
Outlaw is dumb.
sterile chasm
The worst for me is i cant manage my energy when to stop multi
tender walrus
dumb as in broken or trash?
lone junco
As in. Why play it when sin is better.
Oh bummer my proc didn't proc and my wheel of fortune sucked.
Sin: G g g Ct. what's going on? (25kdps)
tepid fractal
@sterile chasm u always muti until 4cp. question is what to do next. and when
spice surge
Outlaw isnt too bad in terms of rng anymore
tender walrus
okok thanks that s good news 😄
spice surge
Especially if you have deadshot
lone junco
Yeah. It's just annoying. And not worth.
tepid fractal
lets make adrenalin rush break stealth Pepega Clap
sterile chasm
@tepid fractal Y thats what i am sayin i have prepared a Env and when to start my window because i fell like i am losing dps when i do nothing maybe I am just stupid
tepid fractal
depends on ur dots and tb
if its too early to refresh them just do the env and buil cp again
idk u have 90+ logs, yeah. its hc, but anyway
practice and practice
lone junco
We don't have any agi swords being passed in raid loot. And I've been too lazy to swap loot spec, incase of TF socket dagger chance.
sterile chasm
@tepid fractal my guild sucks so i cant do mythic atm because of work
tepid fractal
@sterile chasm cmon, you having work and 'guild sucks' are completely different things
fast nacelle
@lone junco just loot tf dagger first id 🤔
sterile chasm
@tepid fractal i mean i cant change guild bcs od work 🤣 i would be benched bcs i cant be everyweek i raid days
lone junco
@fast nacelle silly me. Got it backwards. It is funny that my 355 offhand socket beats the 6 other 370 non sockets I have.
fast nacelle
yea socket on OH is neat
my 385 oh with socket would prob beat any 395 dagger
didnt sim but im psure socket has more value
lone junco
Wait. I remember why I stopped playing outlaw finally. My wa got busted and I hated all the kits. So I just gave up.
Mizerok was nice for sin and I stopped there.
sterile chasm
@winter moss @tepid fractal I can see you are good players I guess can you help me with choose of trinkets a have a lot of them and cant decide what could be better for me :/
faint compass
this weeks affixes posion bomb or crimson tempest? 😮 going into a waycrest atm
tepid fractal
bomb
only problem is witches
at least it was before last week, didnt see boss patchnotes for m+
y no changes for witches. maximum haste and bomb
rose rain
hi, quick question, does dagger in the back scale with mastery?
tepid fractal
no, ilvl only matters
rose rain
tyvm
glacial steppe
https://i.imgur.com/R0FTueu.png ill take it
ocean sparrow
Oh those are nicee
wary ice
not as nice as you :^)
lament dove
these 6% upgrades on a piece translate to like 15 dps though, but, an upgrade nonetheless
wary ice
I got a 385 cloak thats a down grade from my 365 socketed :^(
lusty gale
@glacial steppe what is that addon that shows the percentage of upgrades?
lusty gale
roger thx
so u alwyas envenom on 4cp even if you are low on energy?
I tend to envenom quite often with 3cp when i have tb on is that bad?
tepid fractal
its fine to give 3rd envenom in tb with 3cp
so much variables, u never can say 100%
arctic walrus
Should I still run with EB build or go single target for high M+ this week
shell zealot
hey guys, qucik question, 26%crit, 22%haste 29% mast(unbuffed): going SOB +14 should i take CT or PB?
sterile chasm
@tepid fractal haste or crit buffed by 750 stat? in uldir
tepid fractal
u should aim for haste
final stone
so with tryan week prob shouldnt use double EB lol
primal gazelle
anyone here use MA?, 3 globals within MA = envenom-> mult-> envenom, what if your multi doesnt crit? do you envenom at 2-3 pt at that point? or do you just mult again (and if it crits, you waste cp)
tepid fractal
envenom for sure
3cp is ok
u should be really unlucky to get 2 cp with ~70crit
and 3cp too
primal gazelle
yea it happens, 30% of the time lmao
tepid fractal
nah its mathematically incorrect. most of the time u will roll 4cp
and only 7% to roll 2 cp
better ask in pvp channel below
shell zealot
simcraft give me an error that it doesnt recognise my head slot, not allowing me to sim at all, anyone encounter the same problem?
spice surge
Use a nightly version
ocean sparrow
Is 1xEB 2xSS an ideal setup for this week?
tepid fractal
no
combo of ss and archives
whats the problem with the week?
its tyranical lol
primal gazelle
just run triple 3 eb and meme every dungeon
tepid fractal
max dps for bosses
primal gazelle
play to your heart desires
tepid fractal
lul
primal gazelle
i ran a 15 kr last night with a dh that was playing fel barrage
god i was so angry
LOL
lusty saddle
Hello friends. Have the fixed the turtle in Freehold? when you kill him in m+0 so he keeps dead when you do a m+ 10 for an example
dense quest
as far as i know it worked last week so it should work this week
potent lynx
What traits should you run for m+
tepid fractal
combo of ss and archives
ocean sparrow
As a new rogue, I only have so many traits. Finally got an EB piece, but I guess I'll respec it to archive
potent lynx
so no echoing blades ?
tepid fractal
tyrannical week
some bosses gonna kick ass
if u aiming for something harder than 10
lusty saddle
is it worth using 2 SS?
lusty saddle
is 2 ss better then one archives and one ss?
lusty saddle
true that
primal gazelle
am i the only EB memer in here
fringe estuary
so SS is back to being better than EB for m+s?
tepid fractal
since u need more dps on bosses this week - yes
eb only for aoe, ss good for st and packs
sonic marten
anyone have any tips to increase dps on mythic fetid?
do you guys use vendetta on first add and 3rd?
killed fetid last week and i think my dps was only 15k, feelsbadman
tepid fractal
which blob are u attacking?
sonic marten
small
tepid fractal
spec to sub
fringe estuary
is it saying bartender is out of date for anyone else? Even though I just dl'ed it using twitch client
tepid fractal
problem solved
tepid fractal
sure
sonic marten
do you use your shadow blade on first set or just on opener?
and save shadow dance for the adds?
tepid fractal
blobs dying in line 10-15 sec
do some test pulls and see if u have enough dps for her
if u kill both of them in time so u can just use SB from pull on boss
and they will refresh right before u will execute him
sonic marten
i think with assass i might be able to get away with vendetta on opener and just usign vanish, galecaller exxsanguinte on adds tbh
but i don't want the RL to look at logs and yell at me for not saving vendetta for adds haha
primal gazelle
i loved sub until they gutted it 😦
sub was great beginning of bfa
then they nerfed it every other week
fringe estuary
Something glitched with wow =/ My UI and stuff is clear,. but anything in game is completely fuzzy
vapid moth
was shadowstep range reduced? i coulda sworn it usedd to be 30 yards
round harbor
@primal gazelle if u want memes just run outlaw every dungeon
dont think ive gone below 19k overall yet this week
flint swift
Is that with snake eyes build @round harbor
round harbor
hell no
strange python
primal gazelle
outlaw isnt my cup of tea
strange python
Just some help if isnt prob suggestion:)
fresh coyote
do sin rogues get focused by mythrax' imminent ruin mechanic?
Ive got the first ruin in 110 out of 115 pulls
strange python
My bags are green for upgrade only cuz vers
vapid moth
was shadowstep range reduced? i coulda sword it used to be 30 yards
warm sable
Is Mirror of the Blademaster trinket buggedfor rogues ???
sturdy python
Don't believe so
People found it scaled odd in Sims and was giving massive DPS increase. But it didn't work like that In game
rose crater
Any ideas when the simming will be updated for Shadow of Elune? I know it's not great, but 1 stack of it literally can't be giving negative dps over an empty slot
spice ice
It could have negative value like Pack Alpha used to for BM
spice ice
You had to talent into it being slightly usable with a dead talent
It got buffed to be usable NOW
rose crater
It's a haste proc, that can't have inadvertant negative value though surely
spice ice
But at the start it was bad
gray crest
dayvanie, you said they nerfed sub last week... but they didnt lol
my dps went up by 1k as a direct result of the patch
primal gazelle
they gutted cleave/priority damage
gray crest
its still there, just not as much
primal gazelle
ST buff yes, but on aoe/cleave fights, your dps will suffer compared to sin
any boss fight with 2-3 adds (but not 5+), you will on the bottom of the meters while other classes out-cleave you
dark token
the overall damage for sub is the same
rose ruin
how can i squeeze more dps outta this rog?
dark token
my dps before and after nerf on zul is the same with the same strat
same build
just i do more crawgs less zul
primal gazelle
we'll see how sub will do in the new tier
dark token
now in longer patchwerk fights it actually is top ST for rogues
only problem is new raid is a lot of council
i can see sub being good on say opulence for example
sub is best on aoe tunneling like zul or pure ST,
sin beats it with periodic single adds like vectis/mythrax, or council fights
primal gazelle
sub requires higher uptime on boss than sin does, more punishing for mechanics
dark token
that too, especially with ES build
dark token
overall i like the sub changes but i think tfd will be nerfed its a bit too good for one trait
feels nice tho
wary ice
My problem w/ current sub is that it works because of TFD
gray crest
yeah im surprised it hasnt gotten nerfed this week
wary ice
If something is that integral to how it the spec both plays and gears it should be baseline or at least a talent
primal gazelle
it is a talent 😛 mos pretty much does the same thing
dark token
if they nerf tfd they need to buff something else imo
remove the haste on it would be a good nerf
gray crest
btw, am i the only one who wants blindside to be a baseline spell for sin
dark token
the CP feels good
wary ice
I like the haste > CP personally
gray crest
i dont like the cp, they could nerf down the haste a little though
wary ice
speaking from a M+ point of view
I also have never felt the need nor desire to play with blind side
primal gazelle
move this to #sub pls, lets not spam the master spec channel with subpar specs kappa
spice surge
Blindside is awful
wary ice
^
spice surge
With 1 double dose, its not worth using
primal gazelle
i am a converted red name now
wary ice
It feels likea filler talent
spice surge
Unless you proc
gray crest
id rather have blindside as baseline like it was before legion
wary ice
Which is weird since it adds a whole dimension to the spec
I really like EP though
just a feel good talent
gray crest
its cool but its basically just doubling up on envenoms basically
dark token
i miss master poisoner with agonizing poison max braindead playstyle for max dmg
wary ice
depends
mass AoE i just yolo cause u have infinite energy and can finish every other global anyways
gray crest
only during cds would i ever consider giving a shit about EP timing
primal gazelle
i realized recently that ive been waiting for EP to fade before casting another envenom, but then the envenom wouldnt benefit from the 10% increased dmg
wary ice
yeah ur supposed to clip it
primal gazelle
derp derp
wary ice
my WA for EP is like a black duration bar and it turns BRIGHT ASS Red at ~.5 seconds
I time it on that
gray crest
EP doesnt pandemic so you want the very last millisecond to be an envenom to get the 10% buff
wary ice
^ but you also have to account for serverlag and possibly reaction time
strange python
guys help, in 40 min i am waiting mythic raid run i wish to know about stats, https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rsZHznJGCDpikLmeFegQgH i can only get up vers
from gear
gray crest
im confused as to what you are asking
do you need explanations as to why some stats are better than others?
wary ice
Haste > everything in ST iirc
I dont raid seriously on my rogue though so probs not a good source
gray crest
im more of a sub dude, but ive played sin enough to know what to do
haste increases dot damage and at certain breakpoints it will give you another tick of your dots, thus increasing your energy generation on top of more energy generation
master is a flat damage increase to dots, vers is basically the same thing, and crit does the same thing but also increases cp generation.
spice surge
There are no haste breakpoints
every point of haste will make your dots do more damage
wary ice
Is that there are no haste break points period ever or the haste break points are linear so there is no "soft cap"
the former seems weird
spice surge
There are no haste breakpoints ever
gray crest
pretty sure you get another tick of your dots once you get a certain amount of haste, the damage increase to your dots is to compensate for there being no "breakpoints"
gray crest
they made this change literally this xpac
wary ice
So how exactly does haste increase damage from bleeds?
I think thats where im getting lost
spice surge
You get partial ticks, so if you were 1 haste away from the "haste breakpoint" you get 99.9% of a tick
Google it
Its like every other dot
wary ice
Haste can increase the speed of ticks, causing damage to be dealt more quickly, and if sufficient, will result in extra ticks being added to the effect, roughly maintaining the overall duration of the DoT but greatly increasing both its total damage (and therefore cost efficiency) and the speed at which it deals damage.
that didnt answer many questions
hang on i think i found a better source
strange python
Hey guys, i am asking you who are undrestanding class better and play it longer, do i need stack vers if it says so or just haste haste haste crit ? 😃
sturdy python
Whatever stat weights say is safest @strange python
Rememebr they will change depending on St cleave or aoe
wary ice
@gray crest my link answers it
strange python
thanks
wary ice
despite wowpedia being updated this year, it apparently is just wrong
gray crest
ok its just like a % of the normal tick damage
candid jasper
Is it worth going 2x shrouded for m+?
gray crest
yes
dark token
go 3 shrouded boi
gray crest
ss is best for aoe
gray crest
scent of blood is also good for high keys where you wont beable to get as many stealth resets off
candid jasper
I see double dose is fairly good for single target
wary ice
so is SS 😃
candid jasper
I don't really get why shrouded sub is showing so low on bloodmallet
spice surge
Because its using master assassin
wary ice
Shrouded + Sub Bloodmallet estimate is using MA?
dark token
for me triple shrouded beats 2 shrouded + 1 EB or scent with equal ivl and secondaries: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8QVvn3uKrXDDHsKPY3M2XP
wary ice
lol
dark token
also PB beats every other talent in the row too
sturdy python
Its no different than it has been
Still good, and very good once there's more than one target
spice surge
Oh have they updated it to include that next to it? Then maybe not
strange python
Archive of titans stacK? double stat buff or?
wary ice
Intuitively so
I really need to do a gear audit
I keep getting fat fucking ilvl upgrades, but sims tell me my gems are better; which makes sense but I'm still Fry-eyeing my bag
dark token
gems are worth 15 ilvl with the same stats or 20 with shit stats in my experience
for most gear
except for mainhand weap and trinkets
wary ice
i was about to say IDR what i have off hand
but then i remembered i exported my simc last night :^) I'll run a sim hang on
quiet horizon
so is toxic blade and exsang a preference or do you do more dps with one or the other depending on ilvl
wary ice
Depends on Stats and traits in my experience
wary ice
IMO: exsang is mandatory in M+
it helps relieve some of the energy hunger you have on boss fights since you drop so much haste for other shit
also Exsang'd SS is some hella burst
conversely TB is really good in extended ST fights where double dose is more useful than SS
vivid hearth
so would you go SS x 2 and dd or EB, SS, DD for m+ ?
wary ice
IMO DD in M+ isnt worth it
EB is pull/dungeon dependant, similar to CT
3xSS is an in-general safe option
Tyranical KR / Temple I can see DD being more viable; I still say the time you save on bosses will be less than that lost on trash
vivid hearth
kk
quiet horizon
yea im sorry but i dont understand the acronyms you used like EB and CT
wary ice
better rogues will have better answers
quiet horizon
crimson tempest?
wary ice
Echoing blades, chrimson Tempest, Double Dose, Shrouded Suffication
vivid hearth
yeah
wary ice
Chrimson ^)
vivid hearth
so crimson or tb for ad?
wary ice
Atal?
Uhh it depends on your tank and how many triple pulls he does
wait; are you asking about TB/Exsang or Crimson/PB?
wary ice
I dont know your gear; so an objective "thats right/wrong" is hard to say.
vivid hearth
yeah, figures
wary ice
3x SS => exsang a lot of value
PB > CT depends wholey on how the tank pulls
If you're triple pulling everything CT for sure
Otherwise PB will get you there
vivid hearth
cool, thanks
wary ice
If you have a Galecaller's Boon I think Exsang PB is probably a good decision
quiet horizon
when you say like depends on the tank and how he pulls
like
pack by pack vs huge pulls?
wary ice
CT's value scales with the pull size
so if every pull in the dungeon is <5 real enemies
CT's damage falls off a lot
conversely
If the tank is forced to kite a lot (like a few weeks ago was necrotic + sanguine) PB's value drops off a lot
since mobs are moved out of it
or are in general less clumped
Atal specifically is weird
nimble glacier
i have a quick question, if im currently running 1 ss, 1 archives, and 1 SB. should i b running exsanguinate or TB for Raid bosses (in particular vectis/fetid)
wary ice
Again I dont really raid on rogue, but I'm like 85% sure exsang lines up with Vectis add spawn
wet wing
i feel like secondary stats do almost nothing
wet wing
like i can switch 200 of my best stat for 200 of my worst stats and my dps will go down like 20 dps
wet wing
i know lol but still i feel like its never worth it to go down ilvl for secondary stats
quiet horizon
is blood mallet updated? i feel like rezan's fury isnt better than nothing personal
wet wing
unless maybe for trait
storm canopy
How reliable is the dungeon slice sim in raidbots?
wet wing
like i can go from 944crit 1354haste 460mastery to 753crit 1087haste 897mastery and my dps drops by 53 percent which is within the sims error margins so you could argue there is no difference, so like is there any point at all to go for stats lol
drops by 53dps *
primal gazelle
i tried 2 EB 1 DD last night in a 14 atal and 15 KR
the damage is "ok"
the DD is about 4% of my dmg during boss fights
primal gazelle
didnt feel gross 😛
#1 on 2 bosses as well
2nd for the 2nd boss, and bottom for the 3rd boss
primal gazelle
well its literally only used for bosses
primal gazelle
ya
wary ice
I'd like to compare that log to a 2xeb 1x SS
if you can/are willing to run a similar level atal
I still think SS will give you more ST; it just sounds like it will
primal gazelle
DD gives more ST than SS does
wary ice
especially since Tyranical means you get 3 applications of it per fight
primal gazelle
i sim significantly higher with dd than ss on ST
wary ice
Hmm
primal gazelle
im thinking about dropping CT for poison bomb, and then using 3x eb and just yolo
3% poison bomb is same as 1 trait of dd for ST
wary ice
out of curiosity are you pugging these?
primal gazelle
yes thats a pug lol
wary ice
more curiosity: why leech > other options
i cheat death cause im too poor to afford more than 1 food per run :^)
wary ice
I think Elsuiveness is the right choice
on the topic of 3x EB + PB
why not just 3x SS + PB
slightly less aoe damage
more boss
by a lot
cobalt gyro
Cheat was okay, mot so much now
primal gazelle
i dont have 3 ss lol
wary ice
I know i put the ":^)" there
cobalt gyro
Since it doesn't reset anymore it's a lot less useful
primal gazelle
only have ss chest sadly
i could do 1 ss 2 scents, or throw achives in there
i just dont think 1 ss 2 scents offer that much ST value either over 2 EB 1 DD
half tartan
3ss is amazing this week, tried setting up an outlaw set was kinda disappointed in its sims
primal gazelle
i personally dont think EB is worth using at all if you dont use MA
and stacking crit
cobalt gyro
I was running 3x EB for awhile but the ST loss was noticeable
primal gazelle
PB ct or hb?
strange python
ur st will always be trash with 3EB
primal gazelle
maybe 2 EB 1 DD with PB instead of CT
dark token
100% 3xSS if you have it
i typically get like 18-20k overall on a dungeon its pretty nuts
wary ice
I can do 2xSS 1x SoB orDD if i lose 15 ilvls on my head slot
sims lower
I can see it being smarter though :/
'specially since my gear is really haste weighted
primal gazelle
rng gods on your side if you have 3 ss at high ilvl
dark token
i have 3 390 omegalul
wary ice
Arent SS raid peices for chest and helm?
half tartan
^3SS club
primal gazelle
currently theres only 1 ss from raid in uldir
primal gazelle
390s would come from m+ chest pre 8.1
wary ice
I'l llink my options in a sec
sonic marten
is this a good push week for m+?
half tartan
With good druid or monk heaer yes
sonic marten
b/c of soothe?
half tartan
Druid preferred and also for knocks and etc
wary ice
boomie destorys this week
primal gazelle
the week of BOA release is the easiest push week
half tartan
I feel like god comp this week Boom, MW, Rogue, Dh, BDk
sonic marten
do you know if the 400s is going to be m10 or m15?
primal gazelle
m10
sonic marten
ez
sonic marten
oh they're going to make it harder? wtf =/
primal gazelle
well obviously...
sonic marten
so we should get to practicing m15 now to get ready?
primal gazelle
idk exact scaling but at least a 13 i think
sonic marten
i thought it was goign to be an easy farm but if we have to spam m15s taht won't be that hard
err that easy
primal gazelle
well youll get access to 400+ gear so that makes it easier as time goes
wary ice
@half tartan that's every weeks god comp
ocean sparrow
Right
primal gazelle
its same as doing 10s at 360, then youre like 370 a week later
ocean sparrow
Only going to be harder for the first few...
And itll be during a push week
So you can single pull, still time it
sonic marten
what are the affixes on 1/22 and 1/29?
ocean sparrow
Even the week after isnt bad...
primal gazelle
fortified teeming expolosive is after
ocean sparrow
Fortified teeming explosive
sonic marten
if only FOK worked on explosives pogchamp
primal gazelle
having one go off is enough to wipe your party at +15
ocean sparrow
Idk..with a dk grip it's less of an issue. Survival hunters could AOE the explosives
primal gazelle
extremely punishing
ocean sparrow
Mages could ice lance them and actually kill them
And if you have the right unit frames/WA set up
They're impossible to miss
half tartan
Should
near willow
tyannical raging volcanic is ideal that 2nd week. that was such a good push week earlier this season
primal gazelle
i think jan 22 might be capped to 385 ilvl gear from m7-10
like they capped m+ to 355s the first week of m+ during heroic uldir release
half tartan
Is the repeat of raging volcanic after or before next season?
storm canopy
How reliable is the dungeon slice sim in raidbots? im running 1 ss 1 eb and 1 archive and its simming HB over CT
wary ice
I dont believe its AoE pulls are large enough to ever put CT > anything
dark token
its like a tyranical week with pugs
its what it is simming
so i would definitely use CT on high fortified keys with a group
storm canopy
but when pugging there seem to be very few 6 target pulls
primal gazelle
its just average
wary ice
Uhh
half tartan
Iwould PB maybe do better for me this week, my CT and PB sim basicaly the same 4-5 targets 40s, 3SS Exsang
wary ice
IIRC Dungeon slice is a Boss pull followed by 1-3 followed by 3-5 repeated a # of times over the course of the sim
half tartan
We do pretty big pulls
primal gazelle
look at your average dungeon--> check fok cast --> check fok hits, how many targets are you hitting on average per dungeon? use that to sim
marble hemlock
thin oriole
wa
marble hemlock
is dungeon slice
thin oriole
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
dark token
so yeah tyyrannical week pugs basically
for keys around 13~
overall very good sim
just for highly coordinated groups or fortified weigh the results of it with logic
primal gazelle
1-3 and 4-6 mob pull doesnt sound very coordinated to me 😛
ruby idol
how many 19 seconds 6 mob pulls exist in the actual game?
wtf is that really the dungeon slice hahaha
primal gazelle
does that factor in restealths between pulls?
marble hemlock
yes, it basically emulates a bunch of different situations in one
which is why its a nice all-round sim, but for people pushing highkeys who are mainly interested in optimizing just their aoe output its not as helpful
but simming pure aoe is pretty simple, so the dungeon slice is a good start for people who really have no cllue and just want a general idea