assassination

[pulsar steppe]

cause i just wanted to spam fok all the time haha

[civic palm]

Depends entirely on your crit rate.

and target #.

[coarse knot]

You should probably never FOK on 2 targets

[latent field]

FoK 1 - 3 targets, mutilate > 4 targets

[earnest pumice]

^ seems so backwards

[civic palm]

Because that is.

[grizzled jay]

.

[dusky tiger]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

[pallid spruce]

what weekaura setup u guys use, what u think what is best or best looking/ or the most practical ?

[brave gyro]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[brave gyro]

Afenar's group is pretty clean

and regularly updated @pallid spruce

[hollow ivy]

With 2xSS and EB subterfuge is still way to go right?

[pallid spruce]

what u think about luxthos weekaura ?

[strong sundial]

best WA

[last sundial]

how big is the difference bet

between weapon enchants on main/offhand

like according to the statweights you wanna go haste>crit for ST, so that would be quick nav on main and deadly on off

would you switch the enchants out for MT purpose or leave it like that?

[cobalt gyro]

Literally doesn't matter

Though, from an efficiency perspective, enchanting the stat that's best for multiple specs onto your highest item level one helps

[silver glade]

I use Luxthos too, imo far superior to the others, absolutely the best.

[last sundial]

thx @cobalt gyro

[slender sandal]

How are the new tortollan trinkets

[candid jasper]

Is echoing blades still pulling ahead in m+?

[candid jasper]

I'm finding my damage very low

with echo

[unkempt osprey]

Feeling the same way tbh

[normal spear]

i believe what people said about EB: 1. 0 value on ST, 2. better with MA, 3. good for giga pulls

otherwise SS is just better overall

[unkempt osprey]

Thinking about rolling 2 SS instead of 2 EB

[normal spear]

probably a good idea in my opinion

[unkempt osprey]

Thanks for sharing it 😃

[candid jasper]

ele shamans doing 66k aoe

and I'm there doing 20k

[normal spear]

it's most likely his burst aoe, and your 20k is consistent

[candid jasper]

Why does SS sim so low then?

-61dps?

[dusky tinsel]

if you're doing 20k on aoe then its more than the traits, not to be rude

[candid jasper]

With shrouded sub I do a lot more

but with echo blades not much

[chrome umbra]

I’m playing 2x EB and I do 60k+ on most 8+ target pulls lol

Rogues are cool again

[candid jasper]

60K+ sustained?

[chrome umbra]

Yea.

[placid elbow]

when i run 2x EB

[candid jasper]

ok, cool, so it's just my rotation then

[placid elbow]

i do dogshit dps lol

[candid jasper]

yeah basically that's me :p

Would you mind sharing your rotation>?

[chrome umbra]

Running 385 spyglass / world boss trinket from Darkshore and 35% crit base tho lel

[candid jasper]

My gear is 387

[dusky tinsel]

I run 2xSS and 1EB, 2 and even 3 EB sim less for me. Most of the keys I'm doing are in the 14-15 area though.

[chrome umbra]

Just garrote 3 targets. CT. Fok and rupture until you’re energy comfortable and spam fok ct

[candid jasper]

ohh, so you're not playing master assassin?

[chrome umbra]

If it’s 10+ targets just fok and don’t use spenders once your energy is juice

No. MA is trap

[candid jasper]

trap?

[chrome umbra]

MA is awful in any dungeon scenario

[dusky tinsel]

MA was only good for when the trait was busted for like 12 hours or less

[candid jasper]

ahhh

gotcha

yeah, ok

[chrome umbra]

Even still it was over kill cause you should have sexual amounts of crit now anyways for m+

[candid jasper]

hidden blades?

[chrome umbra]

Nah hidden blades sucks too

Just play CT

[candid jasper]

ah

[dusky tinsel]

HB/MA and 3XEB was only good for less than 12 hours prior to hotfix. Subterfuge/Exsang/CT is the way to go

I'm hesitant to run even 1 EB on ToS 15, might just run DD as that's my only other viable option 🤔

pulls are so small and I run PB on that dungeon anyway

but then again its teeming idk

[candid jasper]

Run 2 EB and 1 SS?

[vagrant maple]

I am in somewhat of a luxury position.
Can run 1x EB + 2x SS or 2x EB + 1x SS for dungeons, thoughts for m+?

[dusky tinsel]

I'd sim it honestly, just do dungeon slicer or 3 targets for 45-1 min, try different variants depending on how your group normally pulls. 2xSS is better for exsang generally, but its gear dependant.

[vagrant maple]

personally leaning towards 2x SS, because those will remain valuable for smaller groups while 1x EB guarantees bonker dps for big pulls

[dusky tinsel]

If you have solid crit and your tank pulls big 🍆 then 2xEB isn't bad.

2xSS is a safer bet and better overall imo

[vagrant maple]

define solid crit. 30+ / 35+ ?

[dusky tinsel]

I think the discussion from Tuesday someone was mentioning roughly 35%, but that was with MA and 3xEB for cheese. I personally only have 22%, but my gear isn't very optimal for EB either.

[vagrant maple]

EB was hotfixed since wednesday though

[dusky tinsel]

I can get up to 30% if I change shit around

right

[vagrant maple]

I believe its dmg values got halved

[dusky tinsel]

doesn't mean the traits bad, its still good, just don't run it anymore

you dont run MA/HB or 3xEB

since the hotfix

[vagrant maple]

right, back to ol' faithful ?

[dusky tinsel]

I'm talkingly purely crit to get the most value out of the current EB

[vagrant maple]

sub / ex / ct

[dusky tinsel]

well crit% in general, but yeah sub/ex/ct

[cold trellis]

guys can you explain me about stats for assa, discord guide says that on multi target haste is the worst stat but on raidbots.com all of multi target simulations say that haste number 1

[vagrant maple]

its a weird time right now

echoing blade says: crit for aoe is amaze

(but only if you have at least 1 of the trait)

[dusky tinsel]

right, you need crit for it to prock, so it goes up in value

@cold trellis just follow your sims bud, everyones gear is different

[vagrant maple]

bloodmallet sims for SS are busted atm I think

in case you use that as a source

personal sims, as tedious as they are, are your best bet atm

[cold trellis]

all my gear have haste and sims say haste is the best(

[vagrant maple]

also on multi target @ alive?

have you tested multi target with at least 1 EB trait?

[dusky tinsel]

he's talking the discord stat priority list, which is just a general theory, your stat weights are going to vary based on your gear, haste is highly valued in most situations. Can never go wrong with it, but yeah just follow your sims.

[cold trellis]

then i dont understand info from discord guide

i have 1 EB and 2 SS

[dusky tinsel]

your sims aren't always going to be the same as what discord tells you

whatever gives you the best dps in the situation you're simming for is what you should use

[vagrant maple]

speaking of which

which raidbot preset do you boys use for m+?

heredic add cleave?

[dusky tinsel]

nooooo never

thats like simming for skorpyron, its unrealistic

[vagrant maple]

so which would you recommend for simming multi target

[dusky tinsel]

there's a new preset out called dungeon slicer, which is a variant of most dungeon scenarios

[vagrant maple]

did not know that - ill check it out

[dusky tinsel]

I personally haven't tried that yet, but I typically use 3-6 targets for 45sec-1min for most trash sims

if trash lasts 30 seconds which in general it does, then crit/mastery skyrocket in value in most cases

[swift whale]

Is MFD better in dungeons now?

[vestal wren]

mfd was never bad in m+

[dusky tinsel]

I don't know of a rogue that runs it though

[round harbor]

i just hate that button

run it for one dungeon and see how much you wanna kms on singlke target

[candid jasper]

So I'm a bit confused about whether EB is actually the way to go right now, I do more damage with SS but that's because I know how to play it

[round harbor]

vigor feels like a baseline talent atm

[candid jasper]

I have 2xSS and a lazer matrix

[dusky tinsel]

I'd run 2xSS

[round harbor]

EB is performing well in m+ this week due to teeming fort

[candid jasper]

So 2x EB and SS?

[unkempt karma]

2xss and sob here atm.

[vestal wren]

ppl dont see mfd as compatitive

[unkempt karma]

They say 3x eb this week with big pulls is sick

[vestal wren]

its more of an perception issue

[dusky tinsel]

EB isn't the default best for M+, that was only the case prior to hotfix. Its a good trait, but running multiple hits you hard unless you're chain pulling large packs.

[candid jasper]

ok sticking with 2x SS

[gloomy steppe]

Is it weird raidbots suggests me to use double haste enchant+toxic blades for M+? https://puu.sh/Ci2JK.png

[dusky tinsel]

I have double haste ring enchants 🤷

tb is simming higher because you only have 1xSS trait

[sturdy python]

Not really, a lot of people have found that it values haste a lot. It has some small pulls and a boss fight

You'll find it always prefers pb too

[gloomy steppe]

I had 2xSS but my chest piece with SS is very low

[dusky tinsel]

nothing wrong with that, just take your best gear.

I'd still run CT over PB though, unless you're doing ToS generally

[normal spear]

there are a lot of good rogues here, just ask

[pliant nest]

so, according to sims SS/SoB still beats stacking EB, right?

[normal spear]

depends. dungeon slice includes a boss fight, and pulls are not that big

for those situations SS is clearly better

[pliant nest]

ok so would you recommend playing EB this week?

[spice surge]

If you're pulling big then yes, but generally unless you know the pulls beforehand (ie pre-made group) then I would just run ss

[pliant nest]

id assume it also depends on the week right? teeming is probably beneficial for EB

[normal spear]

yeah

on tyrannical i would never run more than 1 EB, for example

[pliant nest]

makes sense! thanks for the replies

[strange python]

Honestly

Run EB only in FH or Motherlode

[cunning blaze]

Is triple SS preferred over double SS and 1 sob in m+ (assuming equal ilvl on those pieces)?

[pliant nest]

depends.. SoB is good if trash mobs survive for a while

[solid lava]

!sim

[ancient mist]

👋
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@solid lava

[stray root]

since SS now scales with versa, is versa being valued higher now?

or are we still just stacking haste/crit for ST and crit/mast for aoe?

[quaint flare]

Thought it always scaled with vers jut shows on tooltip now

[stray root]

dont think it did, they didn't mention that it was just a tooltip update atleast

and my SS do more damage now than they did b4 so I assume its cuz they scale with it now

[spice surge]

It always scaled, just a tooltip update

I dont understand how the only thing people got out of those wowhead tooltip updates is the versa scaling, they also said it would be buffed by like 42%

[stray root]

really? I didnt see that, guess I brainfarted when I was looking at it then ^^

[spice surge]

But yeah, no change to actual mechanics, tooltips are just slightly less scuffed

[stray root]

okay ^^

[still vale]

I've been experiencing the combo points bug (can't generate combo points at all) a lot since 8.1

anyone knows a quick fix? logging off and on doesn't really help

[lone junco]

You don't need cps if you ggg fokfokodkfokfokdokdokfok.

Either turn off your addons to test. If that doesn't Work I would Temp rename your WTF folder to _wtf and let it rebuild. If that works then yay. If not. Just reroll.

[scenic wyvern]

For Mythic+ im running 2 SS, 1 EB (all 390). I see really high key players stacking Mastery... Should i do the same for M+. ATM ive been stacking haste for raid (mastery 30%, haste 20%, crit 28%)

[sturdy python]

Can Sim and see

In large sustained aoe crit and mast gain a lot of value compared to haste

[pulsar tartan]

I have a question, so i have never had an on use trinket before on my rogue, and when i got mine today i slapped it into a macro with vandetta and thought nothing of it, apperantly you can't use on use trinkets in stealth cos that breaks subterfuge, what do i do instead, plus my rotation might not be correct but my start is "vandetta-garrote-mutilate-rupture-exanguinate" where do i slap in the trinket instead to still get the garrote buff from shrouded suffocation and subterfuge? im honestly clueless

[quaint flare]

Don't think anyone opens with vendetta

[trail marsh]

whats current pre-raid BIS?

[pulsar tartan]

idk man

[spice surge]

Read the guide in the pins for opener, you shouldnt open with vendetta from stealth

[quaint flare]

^

[pulsar tartan]

that

no

wjat

my question was how do i use on use trinkets while still using the full effect of shouded suffocation and subterfuge

[delicate crater]

Pretty sure the guide explains the SS Opener

[spice surge]

Use them with vendetta

[delicate crater]

and where Vendetta fits in it

[quaint flare]

Just use the right opener for ss and should be fine

[pulsar tartan]

aait

[simple gulch]

Anyone got Razzashi Tooth Medallion from the tortollan seekers thing?

Is it useful? i haven't seen it anywhere

[sturdy python]

On use trinket use depends on CD. If it's 2 mins you can usewitj venetta every time. If it's less then on CD usually

[dusky moon]

What would be a reason for Tricks of the trade to fail with "Invalid Target" when used on a tank in a party, but not on any other member?

[spice surge]

Neural silencer

[dusky moon]

they did not have it

[thin patio]

Mount

[spice surge]

They or you have it or they are mounted

[dusky moon]

hmm. or maybe they did

[sturdy python]

Mounted gives a different error. That one is neural silencer only I believe

[dusky moon]

okay, good to kno

[stable pine]

Thoughts on the new NP trait? Would you TB before Vend if you run NP?

[sturdy python]

Probanly not

[spice surge]

No as that would make you only get 8 seconds of uptime on it rather than 9

[stable pine]

^is there a way of sims rotations?

[sturdy python]

You can edit the apl yes

Gotta find someone who knows how though

[primal gazelle]

@pulsar tartan you should never open with vendetta

[strange python]

i heard breaking your stealth is good though

[vapid delta]

!8.1

[vestal wren]

!changes

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Changelog: http://www.ravenholdt.net/quick-guide-to-rogue-changes-in-8-1/

[vestal wren]

there we go

[vapid delta]

Cheers mate

[vestal wren]

for a short note on the changes

[strange python]

anyone else find it annoying they named a vendetta modifier "nothing personal" when the definition of vendetta is a personal grudge

its a silly complaint, but its still doesnt make sense

[vestal wren]

they should have named it nothing personn__e__l

[strange python]

I C WUT U DID DER

[amber quail]

Sarcasm guys...sarcasm

[lone junco]

@scenic wyvern

tldr: sim yo shit.

outside of simming. Understand what the haste does for you. It speeds up bleed ticks that convert to energy. And also adds passive energy gain through haste.

If you want stronger bleeds we use mastery. If you want more E we use haste. In cleave when you have a few garrotes and ~4 ruptures out. You cap E. meaning haste becomes relatively dead stat.

Aka high rogues stack crit and mastery. Crit gives more cps. FOK r FOK r FOK r.

Mastery buffs the actual garrote dmg. And the actual rupture damage.

[quaint flare]

[paper heron]

put that in the guide

the guide has so little explaination its just a bunch of facts that people are expected to just process without and explaination i feel like if the guide had shit like that people may ask fewer questions here

[vestal wren]

mystler did a good job on the wowhead guides

might take a look there

[paper heron]

i guess i meant the ravenholdt guide specifically

[lone junco]

@paper heron yeah. Guides are tough to right. They are either low lvl. Or high level. And if you try to cross the line you wind up confusing people.

RH guide is typically limited to brief but correct. Without lots of long winded conditional responses.

Aka. Guides like that are most useful for people that already know the material.

Anyway. @ me for specific conditional weird shit. Not dm. It isn't in my best interest to try and talk 1:1 with 20 people at once.

[void narwhal]

~

[modest badge]

do u take master poisoner or elaborate planning for mythic ghuun?

[lone junco]

Pretty sure I haven't seen any good logs without EP this tier.

There is an execute sim if you like to try out blindside and gutripper as well.

[latent field]

saw that burn that was removed noobe

[lone junco]

Yeah. I do that.

[latent field]

Don’t know if there’s a use for master poisoner beyond increasing the effectiveness of crippling poison for certain m+ weeks and probably a few applications in PvP 🤔

[royal lantern]

its probably the best talent for pvp

but for pve? nah

[modest badge]

alright thanks

[wary moon]

Question

If master poisoner sims better than everything else, and i have weirdish gear is that correct

or is it always elaborate planning

[sturdy python]

Can you link the Sim?

Pretty unusual for mp to beat EP

[past mauve]

Trying to read up and find info on this trinket I got from world boss... but its not on the trinket list.. any thoughts on the Forest Lord's Razorleaf ilvl 385 (+313 Agil with equip - attacks have chance to grant 470 crit for 16 sec) --- thoughts?

[civic palm]

Good

[eager spire]

@past mauve it's on bloodmallet

[lone junco]

@past mauve use gear compare tool on raidbots to compare it vs your trinkets or other combos. St and cleave vary with traits and talents

[fiery eagle]

@past mauve it's 997dps, dmc fathoms outstrips it

[patent fjord]

Is it worth holding exang for galecallers to come off cd?

[lone junco]

@fiery eagle cleave bro.

[patent fjord]

lol thanks

[lone junco]

Or are we just blindly using charts based on other people's gearsets for now.

[civic palm]

Yeah I made them in paint.

[nimble tartan]

I havent used darkmoon in months

[fiery eagle]

@lone junco as an assassination rogue I focus on single target dps because I help carry boss dps

[nimble tartan]

Legit my 370 dice simmed the same and its better in every other scenario so i just left it in my bags

[fiery eagle]

I'm using gailcallers+6 or 7 and fathoms

[nimble tartan]

Im running plume dice

[fiery eagle]

In quests I switch gailcallers to frenetic

Because I run world pvp on

[lone junco]

Which fights In uldir have zero adds again?

[civic palm]

All of them just tunnel :3

[lone junco]

@nimble tartan with the biggest brain. 🎲

[nimble tartan]

Dice insane tbh

[lone junco]

My m+ dice got avoid and socket.

[nimble tartan]

And i got like 7 crit gems

On

[lone junco]

Gonna last a while.

[nimble tartan]

We gotta farm that service medal ring

[lone junco]

Bro. You crit array?

[nimble tartan]

All my big 3 stats around 1k each

So i think im still haste

Im like 24 crit 16 haste 42 mastery

[lone junco]

I love me some crit. Tyra said he bumped to crit

[weary arrow]

3x heed my call secondary traits best for m+?

[nimble tartan]

Ye im trying to get to crit

[lone junco]

3x sephuz.

[silent silo]

echoing blades or archive for m+?

[lone junco]

SS.

[silent silo]

yea i dont have a ss in my helm slot

[lone junco]

Or scent.

[silent silo]

not that lucky

[lone junco]

Damn.

Try the slice sim.

[fiery eagle]

@lone junco we're only doing heroic so meh

[lone junco]

Mine came back with 1ss 1scent 1eb.

[fiery eagle]

Fok adds other than the deadly ones

[lone junco]

Same bb. Sims are our friends.

[nimble tartan]

Noobe do u play MA too? I been doing different opener than simc

[lone junco]

Some.

[nimble tartan]

Nothing crazy just tb before vanish env its big damage

[lone junco]

I was in m+ the other day.

[nimble tartan]

Gotta go all in crit baby

[lone junco]

That's what I do. Tb. Vanish. Env mut env

[nimble tartan]

Yea the sims do vanish tb

[sturdy python]

That's because awhile back they found vanish tb did about 50 more DPS

But I mean that's so small who cares

[marsh fjord]

Hi guys, How fleunt is the spec right now at a high IL, ? does anyone know?

[lone junco]

Fluent? Depends on what that means. L

[weary arrow]

rolling 2x SS 1x EB and no MA talent, do I just want to stack crit as much as possible for m+?

to capture as many EB procs as possible

[chrome umbra]

1x EB honestly feels really weak

[lone junco]

@weary arrow the crit is for FOK cp. not really for eb.

But yah. Crit mastery

[marsh fjord]

@lone junco It means if the spec is smooth

[lone junco]

I guess Fluid. Not fluent.

But yeah. It's smooth and slow in st

[civic palm]

Yeah fluent ain't the right word there, unless you wanna talk about the spec making sense in design, in which case... yeah it's fine.

[marsh fjord]

Sorry english isnt my first langauge 😄

[lone junco]

It's ok. Outlaw is spammy and obnoxious. So sin is fluid.

[candid jasper]

I'm still finding 2x SS and 1x lazer matrix better for m+ atm :/

can't seem to make 2xEB work

I also still don't understand why it's simming so low

(shrouded sub)

[civic palm]

Just remember that the SIM uses a strict scenario to push buttons in. If that scenario isn't good for a certain setup, either due to the target #, the intended inputs, or the timing, you can get numbers that do not match that scenario in practice.

[strange python]

Has anyone simmed the Ivus trinket yet?

Or anyone know of sites that have updated for it?

Herodamage still doesn't have it on the list.

QQ

[civic palm]

SIM it yourself?

[royal lantern]

its a good crit proc, should be good

[velvet forge]

anyone know if they said anything about Cheat Death not resetting? ppl still running it for m+ or trying Elusiveness

[spice surge]

It was only noted for vengeance, but it applies to all similar effects

[velvet forge]

Elusiveness looks pretty good then on Fort week

[sturdy python]

Not really many mechanics you should be getting hit by. Cheat death is there if you mess up

Elusiveness best argument was on tyr boss dots that you can't avoid

[royal lantern]

elusiveness or cheat death is both something you can take

both have a good use, nothing is better

[velvet forge]

just did a ML 14 and Energy Lash is just brutal

[sturdy python]

I seent it

Yeah that would be a good spot for it

[royal lantern]

you should vanish or cloak the energy lash tbh

[fresh ginkgo]

They should allow us to stun those fking masterminds

[sturdy python]

They're definitely one of the toughest trash mobs in BFA

[royal lantern]

nah, we dont need legion´´lul, just aoe stun everything´´ m+ back

[fresh ginkgo]

I mean really no counter

[spice surge]

Just deathrun that part dude, way too hard for no reward

[round harbor]

Imagine not having 100% trash before second boss

Yikies

[fresh ginkgo]

Pop a defensive and pray to God you kill it?

[royal lantern]

nah, do nothing and blame your healer for not healing enough

[fresh ginkgo]

Yea but yea fuck that part of ml

[royal lantern]

fkink slacker

[fresh ginkgo]

100% skip

Maybe if they didn't heal

It would be ok

[royal lantern]

dont stand in the area they cast the leach orb?

[sturdy python]

They just needed the leech by 50 percent

Nerfed

[fresh ginkgo]

I though the energy lash is what cause them to heal

[sturdy python]

No the orb is

[fresh ginkgo]

Oh

[crimson maple]

anyone have any good elvui skins?

[desert vault]

is there a decent m+ dungeon guide for rogues? just walk-through stuff basically?

[signal salmon]

!pins

[strange python]

@desert vault

[lavish spruce]

is 8% haste too low for m+? just got a ring upgrade and dropped my haste from 10.5% haste to 8%

29% crit and 43% mast

[lost horizon]

You may find yourself hurting on bosses

[vapid moth]

"May"

Bosses gonna be painful lmao

[placid dawn]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[nimble tartan]

yall ever just do hella combinations for no reason https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o9MiCqg3ajeDvADmNvs3LW

[static hedge]

for m+ this week, is it better to have 2 EB 1 SS or 1 EB 2 SS?

[neon thunder]

depends on pull size

if big pulls then EB

like EB gets insane value

on massive pulls like in FH

in KR or ToS SS is the way to go

[crisp hollow]

is EB ok without master assassin?

or should i just take archive head for subterfuge+SS dungeons

[fringe urchin]

anyone know bis trinkets ?

[neon thunder]

sim no such thing as bis anymore. well not to the degree of past expansions

[steel violet]

So much variettyyy

[velvet kernel]

For trinkets there is still bis

[fringe urchin]

i have a boon and dice both 355

gusse it will work

[prime bison]

what is EB?

[undone pasture]

Echoing blades (fok trait)

[bleak spoke]

is it bad to play subterfuge with EB?

[supple linden]

Can't remember if I've seen someone mention it or not, but is a non-subter garrote still reducing the damage of your empowered garrotes?

[spice surge]

No @supple linden

@bleak spoke The extra waves from EB always crits, so MA isnt as useful for EB as it might seem

So its fine to run with SS

[supple linden]

So is it worth putting the 4th garrote out in a trash opener? or just go straight to putting ruptures out

[bleak spoke]

huh you're supposed to do ruptures before ct?

[supple linden]

I've still been running PB atm, need to try ct out tbh

Heard that CT is probably the go to talent for M+ for most of the dungeon, just not kings

Maybe temple as well

[bleak spoke]

i was taking it everywhere this week cuz of teeming

but idk

[supple linden]

True, teeming/fort seems like the best time for it

Is the typical pack rotation something like get garrotes out, CT, FoN to apply rupture then reapply CT just before it drops off?

Just trying to up my dps in keys and such

[bleak spoke]

on packs tht are large i'm doing 3 garrotes ct, garrote a new target, fan to rupture fan to rupture etc with fan to apply ct again

not quite sure how to play mobs that live long enough for garrotes to basically all drop off

am i meant to vanish

[strange python]

Honestly.. I feel like I do way more damage rupturing all targets, than also haring to keep CT up. PB procs of rupture feels and seems stronger. CT leaves me too energy starved tbh

[supple linden]

I ran shrine with a guildie last night, only difference in our talent choice was last row. He played with CT and ended up with 15.6k over the course of the dungeon whereas I was at 13.8k

Beat him on boss damage but I lost on almost every trash pack

[bleak spoke]

well yeah you're not gonna be energy starved in shrine, there's too many initiates dying

can just put the lowest cp rupture on them, and instantly you're full again

[strange python]

What stats you focus with CT?

[supple linden]

Well I'm gonna try CT with my current dungeon set up which is about 8% haste and then pushing the rest into crit/mastery

[bleak spoke]

probably crit?

[supple linden]

Raw stat value they're both around 1-1.1k, can't remember the percentages though

Traits I've got are SS, EB and SoB

Only got my first non-340 SS piece last night

[bleak spoke]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/szGC7fkf1pBcypXW6bQC6D idk

when i put it on dungeon style ST, i sim horrendously low it feels

(no raid buffs no lust etc)

(no array)

[supple linden]

Isn't dungeon slice taking into account bosses as well? So it feels more like what you'd put out over the entire dungeon

[bleak spoke]

oh, i just sim 10t 40s and then patchwerk 2 minutes for bosses

[supple linden]

And depending on key & level, you're not going to have 10 targets all the time haha

[bleak spoke]

at least it feels like all bosses ~10-12 are dying in 1:30 to 2:15 at most

well no

but shouldn't it be the same prio after like 6 or so targets

as the keys go higher i feel like tanks are feeling the pressure to pull more and more rather than less though?

[supple linden]

All depends what they and the healer can handle

Tanks feel a bit squishier in 8.1

Or so people I know have said

[bleak spoke]

well of course, but if you don't pull 10 mobs on teeming at least once in a while you're really really not timing the keystone

[supple linden]

Apart from the 2nd boss room, you don't in Kings

[bleak spoke]

well king's rest is different

[supple linden]

😄

[bleak spoke]

most of the time you literally can't

otherwise you'd probably consider it anyway

[supple linden]

Not unless you want 3 beserkers killing your tank

I'll give CT a try tonight, see how my current stats work with it and adjust from there

[bleak spoke]

our strat was to shackle one and then tricks the others onto range dps and have them kite all the way down the bridge

other than someone getting knocked off it was ok

[supple linden]

I'm still quite green on playing rogue, only rerolled to it like 2-3 weeks ago so getting used to playing it and the rotation still

[vestal wren]

mystlers wowhead guide is rly good

[supple linden]

That the M+ section on the main guide? Or something else

Or do you mean just the overall guide

[vernal shadow]

Hey team, can anyone explain why they are using Exsang over TB on Mythic Vec?

Because of movement?

[quartz dew]

I used it cause we were struggling to burst the add down at the time

[lost horizon]

Probably for more boss dmg, TB is better for killing adds

[feral shuttle]

Hi guys - I feel like I'm not getting anywhere near my maximum potential as sin. Could anyone more experienced take a quick look at my logs? I know I'm lacking the SS azurite traits which seems to be gimping me a bit, but is there anything else in terms of rotation that I'm getting majorly wrong?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/outland/stabmcknife#

Thanks.

[lost horizon]

On mobile not gonna do a deep dive but

@feral shuttle

From M taloc

37 CP wasted on mutilate

[feral shuttle]

So this means I'm spamming it above 5CP?

[lost horizon]

Read the guides

Or at 4CP to waste 1

[feral shuttle]

@lost horizon Would you recomend the SIN guide on Ravenholdt? I've read it a couple of times but clearly need to brush up a bit

[lost horizon]

I can't personally recommend any current guide, but the pinned guides here are almost always your best bet

[feral shuttle]

Thanks man.

[lost horizon]

No worries

Other big things you should look at are bleed uptimes, energy management, and CD usage

I'd take a look but fuck logs on mobile

And it gets finicky with fights that have downtime

[feral shuttle]

Alright - I'll take a look. I also think my opener is trash.

[lost horizon]

Pinned guide usually has an opener section

[feral shuttle]

Yep - Just taking another look now.

Ugh - I've played this class for so long and still not getting it down.

filthy casual.

[supple linden]

Opener for your most recent Taloc fight shows some improvement is possible, always try and have rupture rolling before using Toxic blade, as you're missing out on a potential Envenom cast

See the Ravenholdt guide in the pins for a ton of different openers

[feral shuttle]

@supple linden Is there like one big thing that stands out that I'm doing wrong? Or would you just say it;s lots of small improvements (opener, blleduptime, CD managment etc.)

[supple linden]

Quite a few times you're using Mutilate 3 times in a row, should only ever be twice max followed by a finisher

I think it's lots of little things that have big impacts

[feral shuttle]

Yep

[supple linden]

I am basing this off one fight though however, so could have just been a bad pull

[feral shuttle]

I'd say it's probably fairly accurate

[supple linden]

I'm fairly new to Rogue so maybe not the best person to be critiquing, but the main things I've noticed is popping Vendetta and Toxic blade before both bleeds are up in your opener, multiple occasions you're overcapping combo points with Mutilate with triple casts and you forgot to use Galecallers at the start

[feral shuttle]

Yeah - I do remember fcking up the galecallers

The others stuff I can work on for sure. Thanks man

[supple linden]

Ideally, pool your energy and try and get at least 3 envenoms during your Toxic blade window. That's what I aim for anyway

So make sure bleeds are rolling as best as possible so you don't need to refresh rupture during it

[feral shuttle]

Yep- that makes a lot of sense . maximise envenom uptime during TB.

[spice surge]

Pooling for tb isnt really worth it

If you delay TB for just a little bit you've screwed up

[feral shuttle]

So TB should just be cast on CD no matter what?

[spice surge]

Refreshing rupture outside of pandemic is also a bigger loss

Yes

ideally you'd save a little bit on energy before it comes of cooldown, but delaying it is bad

[supple linden]

I usually pool before it comes off cd so I'm ready as soon as it's ready

[spice surge]

Edited because you dont really pool for TB specifically, you just dont use abilities unless you have a reason to

[feral shuttle]

So during TB should I prio envenom over rupture? or Ideally bleeds shouldn't be dropping off duirng TB

[spice surge]

Rupture always highest prio

[supple linden]

Ideally they shouldn't be dropping off, but don't let them drop off

[feral shuttle]

Yep. Okay

And does Subterfuge effect the whole dot duration?

For example. I canst rupture, should I be aiming to always refresh garotte with subterfuge up?

[spice surge]

But tbh, these are such minor differences, focusing on using your cooldowns correctly and keeping uptime on the boss is gonna give you massively more damage than what we're talking about

Subterfuge lasts until the bleed is either refreshed or runs out

IE you want to let it run out, because refreshing it removes the increased damage

[feral shuttle]

So like...the bleed I cast will be effected with the 'subterfuge buff' throughout it's whole duration (I.E I want to let it tick off fully before refreshing)

It's not just affecting the bleed for the duration of the subterfuge buff?

Okay

[spice surge]

Yes

[supple linden]

It's why the rotation suggests casting garrote twice. Yes you lose overall duration from the cast since only 30% gets added via pandemic, but it's an extra 30% time of that sweet increased damage

[feral shuttle]

Yep

Although I think that's specific when you have SS traits?

[supple linden]

Nope, if you have Subter talented, every opening rotation has a double garrote after the vanish

[feral shuttle]

Right, okay.

[supple linden]

I think the initial one differs, but that one is always the same

SS just increases it's importance and what you can do afterwards with the combo points

[spice surge]

You only do 1 garrote if you dont have SS

When you vanish, you can refresh your garrote at pandemic to get an almost full garrote anyway

The reason you cast 2 during vanish with SS is the combo points

[supple linden]

My bad then, thought it was regardless of the trait

[eternal haven]

Do we have any sim numbers from the new azerite pieces at 415?

[supple linden]

I always let it fall off before vanishing and double garroting

[spice surge]

The difference is extremly minor anyway so 🤷

[supple linden]

Whatever feels better and smoother to play I suppose

[feral shuttle]

So opener (without SS) should be something like Garrote>Muti>rupture>vendetta>muti>TB>Spam Envenom>Vanish refresh Garrote at pandemic

[supple linden]

Nothing worse than feeling the game play is clunky. That probably attributes to lost dps as well

[spice surge]

Guide has openers very explicitly

[supple linden]

Yeah, every commonly used talent combo is listed

[feral shuttle]

Yep - that's where it's from - Just making sure you guys agree

[spice surge]

@eternal haven Not any ravenholdt offical ones. The difference between that traits doesnt really change with 415 azerite since most of them scale similarly with ilvl, it could change depending on other stats increasing though. But probably not by that much

[eternal haven]

Thanks, I was more looking at how we do vs. other classes Im having a hard time deciding to stay on rogue or swap to dh.

[spice surge]

Both look strong play whatever you prefer playstyle wise, since theres probably gonna be tuning the first week anyway

[dreamy fiber]

I play DH and Rogue, atm, pretty easy to maintain two characters

[feral shuttle]

Thanks for your help my dudes. Gonna go spam some HC and try to get some better logs 😃

[somber hill]

can someone briefly explain how echoing blades works

Like what consititutes first 5 crits, when does the first 5 crits reset

etc

[pliant nest]

its just the first 5 mobs you crit per cast

basically they limited it to 5 echoing blades per cast so it wouldnt be too op on big puls

[somber hill]

ahhhh

makes semse tjaml i

[exotic fractal]

is echoing blades even worth it over 3x SS now after the change?

[pliant nest]

its only worth it if you do big pulls

so depends on the dungeons and affixes

this week its pretty decent since we have teeming/fortified

[exotic fractal]

also is it worth it to replace a SS trait with one of the engineering aoe traits for M+? (Since new 385 goggles have been added)

[pliant nest]

for mythic ghuun, would you go for the setup that sims best or for SS/exsang for more burst?

[dark crag]

Only p3 matters

[steep obsidian]

gutripper is worth a lot

[pliant nest]

alright thanks

[visual topaz]

So isn't the Shrouded Suffication anymore the singletarget trait ?

or what kinda compinations you use in mythic+ in example ?

[pliant nest]

SS is still very good in m+ but not the best st anymore

[visual topaz]

how about single target / Uldir

[sturdy python]

Purely single target DD is good. SS isn't bad though and is a lot better in any multi target situation

[lone junco]

Dd is marginally better in st. Like 1-2%. I haven't tested dd in a 6t 20s. Like the slice would use. Bit it is probably a ridiculous loss like 12-20%

[young meteor]

hero dmg has the values listed on the M+ section running MfD

people run that for dungeons?

[vestal wren]

not to my knowlage

[young meteor]

yeah, didnt think so

i enver have and just realized that it was slotted there

on the website

[vestal wren]

the talent is fine

tho the perception on it is that its not usefull so even tho it would be a good pick ppl usually dont use it

[young meteor]

good point. probably much better for fort weeks vs. tyran

i dont push super high keys (anythinghigher than a 12) so i dont have to worry about single targeting down speciifc mobs or anything like that

[vestal wren]

its more effort and the win from the talent might be not extremely high

other talents are more qol

e.g. on herodamage the diffrence is 0.3%

[marble hemlock]

mfd is a bad choice since you will immediately be energy starved when playing subt+SS after you cast the first 3 garrotes

so either you mfd+rupture at that point, which then means you will have mfd on CD when mobs are dying at the end of the pull, so you cannot get multiple MFDs in when mobs die, or you dont use it but then youll just starve energy for the first ~5-10seconds of the pull

vigor is basically required when running subt+SS for the increase to max energy so you have a smooth opener on aoe

[vestal wren]

yes so qol as mentioned

[marble hemlock]

starving energy vs not starving energy isnt QoL, its just a straight dps loss

[vestal wren]

having more energy is qol, starving energy is part of the spec design, however bleeds in aoe help a lot resolving that issue

[marble hemlock]

starving energy is only a thing for 1 or 2 targets, once you hit 3+ its not an issue anymore even with 0 haste

might just be semantics on my part, but i wouldnt call vigor a "qol" thing when its just straightup required to have a proper opener

[mossy flicker]

which traits do you guys run in mm+ in general ?

[marble hemlock]

depends heavily on dungeon

KR/ToS you can run singletarget with archive/SS, motherlode/freehold are the big AoE dungeons so scent/echoing blades and 1 SS are very strong there

rest is usually just any combination of scent/archive/SS, but if you can run triple SS at a high ilvl thats a very solid choice

[mossy flicker]

I've traits like echoing blades, ss, NP, etc

[thorny shore]

How many targets we stop casting mutilate for cast fok with the new trait?

[vestal wren]

2+

for seliathan, i think you define the whole thing diffrent then me, given you are used to do the opener in a set to stone way and if it is diffrent its not propper

[marble hemlock]

if your dots are dropping for whatever reason, you revert back to muti since it has a better cp per energy ratio than fok on 2/3target with current crit-values, but yeah, fok is more damage per energy

we defintiely have different priorities, but theres really nothing to say about an opener where you triple garrote and then have to wait for energy for 2 seconds

thats not a "proper" opener when the alternative opener doesnt have that issue

[dark token]

so is spending your residuum the only way to get 385 azerite outside of raid now?

yikes

[timid plume]

Is Fathoms something I should buy if I just dinged my rogue? or not worth it?

[dark token]

if you play sub or outlaw its worth it, sin its very good but you might be able to get better trinkets

either way its better than anything below 370

[timid plume]

Tyvm

[quaint flare]

They are gonna add higher ilvl azerite to that vendor for sure right?

[carmine pagoda]

yeah

[spice surge]

They said on the Q&A it was gonna cost around 10x as much (but you will also get 10x as much from the weekly chest and higher ilvl azerite so)

[dark token]

if you buy 385 gear from the vendor now does it hav the 5th ring?

[spice surge]

No

[grand trail]

any idea how to get rid of those CPs on nameplates?

cant find it noewhere

using platern

[unreal bear]

Bloodmallet has Nothing Personal simming relatively high

is it actually worth going after?

[flint swift]

Is that elvui @grand trail

[grand trail]

@flint swift dont have that addon

only plater

did nto have that before patch

[supple hearth]

@unreal bear use herodamage

[flint swift]

Gotcha. Yeah sorry I don’t know that addon

[last crown]

sooooooo

just me, or Battle trinkets look like theyre going to be largely mediocre and well have to farm Shrine/Siege again?

seems like there's one that seems okay for single target, one seems okay for cleave, but we'll be mostly unable to run double raid trink

[vapid moth]

why do people feel the need to micromanage rogues so much. yes i know im supposed to kill ghuun ads. the reason im on the other ad is to place dots

[sturdy python]

The Yulon one sounds like it could be another warglaives depending on how much extra damage it does

[spice surge]

Tbh both yulon and the claw looks like the type of trinkets that will get a 100% damage boosts 2 weeks after raid release

On the other hand, the mekkatorque one looks pretty good

[last crown]

the bleed looks okay, yu'lon will be great for cleave fights

the cycling one seems...weird

i just dont want to have to farm shrine anymore

[spice surge]

Just like how the cannon from tol'dagor will be good for aoe? 🤔

Because it does increased damage, even though its split

[sturdy python]

Thats why I said it depends on how much

[radiant storm]

So is Nothing personal one of our BIS traits now or is it still a combo of like arhive and ss

[prime bison]

@spice surge , got this 380 ilvl trinket in the october and tried to play with for 5-10 m+ dungeons. It gives approx. 1-1.5% of overall damage

It isn't a good choice at all, better to take dice/sots trinket

[light rampart]

Our guild is current struggling on zek, specifically the warriors since they don’t die fast enough. Should I go 2x EB and 1 uldir shoulders for max aoe?

Litterly wipes 7 times right now

[prime bison]

Does your raid have enough ST damage? If does, take outlaw

To more AOE

[light rampart]

Oef. Got no weapons on me

I think the st is fine for now. Just stuck on that part for now

[prime bison]

You can try EB then

The biggest key on myth zek is good solo burst into the casters and good cleave for small adds

[light rampart]

Alright. Feel like 1 archive is still a must tho or would you say 3 be even

[prime bison]

Ofc 1 archive is must-have

[light rampart]

Casters seem to die alright. The warrrios simply die to slow

Alright trying 2 eb cheers

[prime bison]

What is your setup? Do you have warriors mages etc?

[light rampart]

1 war 2 fire mates

1 dh

[prime bison]

Cuz these warriors often die to cleave

[last crown]

@radiant storm hard to tell until the raid hits and items become available, but it looks awfully like the helmet off the first boss will be BiS, getting Double Dose+Nothing Personal.

Nothing Personal isn't simming too crazy high, but it should be nutty for any bosses with a higher damage phase, obv.

also, generally speaking, seems like Sin+Outlaw will be the two best specs again, ye?

[prime bison]

sub is still good on the ST encounters and encounters such as Fetid

[last crown]

true, but i don't see it being really anything more than marginally better than Sin currently, and given the changes we're looking at going into next tier, and that haste will start to be more noticeable, sin seems like itll continue to outperform

[strange python]

I know this is an old question, but does archive stack?

[last crown]

archive stacks, reorg does not

[prime bison]

sub isn't dead imo, blizzard only removes cleave passive, and we can expect anything from devs

[last crown]

i dont mean dead, i just mean for mythic prog, sub often has the least amount of wiggle room/room for error, and that sin+outlaw seem better in almost all circumstances even without that margin of error

i cant imagine a scenario where Sub is the "best" spec, even if it's equally viable, going in Battle

[prime bison]

outlaw rogues aren't popular in myth

[last crown]

true, but i imagine that'll change in battle

although i guess blade flurry isnt as good at council and add fights as it used to be when it was toggle and not use

[prime bison]

sin should be nerfed next patches because this spec is extremely popular nowdays

raids, m+ and pvp

[last crown]

idk if popularity is a good reason to nerf a spec, the other two just need some love

combat was always incredibly popular, people hate RTB

[muted swallow]

Why is Fathoms now simming higher then my 380 Dead-Eye Spyglass 😦

[prime bison]

as for me combat is pretty RNG

[last crown]

didnt use to be that way

[sturdy python]

Outlaw isnt that RNG

Its main issue is no real CD

And Sub only has pure ST on the other specs atm

[last crown]

outlaw is defeinitely highly RNG...

[sturdy python]

No its not

[last crown]

i mean, it just is

it has the highest variable range for damage of any spec in the game

[sturdy python]

Hardly true

[prime bison]

but you don't have any guarantees that you deal a big amount of damage in the burst phase or with BL

[sturdy python]

And thats mostly upwards dps, not lower

[last crown]

i mean you can argue facts but theyre facts

[hollow stone]

The rng isnt really that bad tho. People make it seem awful. Arcance mage has higher variance than outlaw

[sturdy python]

You have no dea what youre talking about

[last crown]

that is RNG

[sturdy python]

Ace/DS lowers varance quite a bt

[last crown]

you seem to be implanting your own version of what you think im saying into what im saying rather than seeing what im saying

[prime bison]

outlul spec has the biggest spread in dmg

[hollow stone]

Yea. By definition there is more rng. But its really not that bad

[sturdy python]

I play all three specs, Outlaw is nowhere near as RNG dependant as people claim

[last crown]

outlaw has the single largest variance in damage between its lowend and topend between encounters, that's RNG. I'm not saying it makes the spec good or bad

im saying that the difference between your damage's top end range and low end range varies more than any other spec in the game

and people dont like that

[hollow stone]

Right

[prime bison]

@muted swallow do you have enough critical strike? i'm short of crit and haste and RB suggests to keep boon with spyglass

but the difference is 80 dps

[sturdy python]

No what you said was Outlaw is "high RNG" which is no longer true. The reason im dsputing is people are continuing this belef that Its just like early Legion Outlaw when its not

Only reason

[last crown]

i mean, this is maybe the only time simcraft is actually a viable resource, but go ahead and pull it up yourself

the range for your damage on a given encounter varies wildly by your RTB procs

[muted swallow]

i'm at 1224 crit - 27%

[last crown]

and has a higher range than any other single spec in the game

thats just not arguable

you can argue whether it feels good, or if you enjoy it, or if it's balanced well, those are all fine perspectives to have

but the RNG is there

Sin isn't the most popular spec because it's the best spec. It's the most popular spec because the three specs are functionally equal and have different strengths for different fights, but Sin is the best all-round spec, and has the least amount of headaches (for most people)

[royal lantern]

imagine nerfing classes/specs becuase they are popular

dh/paladin/hunter would be unplayable lol

[last crown]

for real fuck DH though

separately, I'd LOVE for them to just hard-revert outlaw to its days as combat in MoP

[royal lantern]

just because dh is basicly outlaw, just better in everything, with more sustain/deffensive options and mobility:?

oh and dont forget imprision, best aoe stun ingame and raid debuff ofc

[round sparrow]

That’s funny some peeps have been saying they wanna be rogues cuz rogues are “basically better dhs” lmao

[sturdy python]

Sin has sustained aoe, other than that what does DH miss?

Oulaw has gouge and we have shroud which just got nerfed in UR

[smoky tulip]

I can't seem to get away from 2x SS traits for raids

I have only ever gotten 1 DD trait 370 and above. I have a billion Nothing Personal, but that doesn't sim better than SS

[languid ore]

The only time outlaw is truly shit is when you get tb 4-5 times in a row. Most of the time you're proccing 2fers or critical buff.

It's actually pretty decent

[neon thunder]

Shouldnt

It needs like a little ramp time but there gets a stage where you just press fok and feel like a god

[sturdy python]

6 rups should keep you energy capped

assuming youre keeping poisons up

[lone junco]

Rng and dps variance are not the same thing. Thank you.

[urban hare]

hey guys. I have a question for you, regarding opening rotation. is there a reason to not use vendetta first, when stealthed on pull?

[lone junco]

Whether you get happy or sad when you rtb. May lead to your rng feels. Whether you crit on FOK in trash may lead to rng feels. But the dps spread from getting 7x 5 buffs in a row on a million iterations. Vs the average dps. The quartile of which is actually shown by bars. Thems numbers. Bota was rng. But you didn't see people crying about it. So maybe the active response procs are the ones people care about. Quantify that rng feels for me. Afk.

@urban hare vendetta gives you return energy. So don't hit it on exact open. Don't want to waste some. Second. G r g. They don't tick right away. So vend before isn't a huge gain. And might burn energy. So it isn't really worth.

[sturdy python]

Well you didnt have poisons on there

[lone junco]

Ayyyyy

[sturdy python]

So that probably is why

[lone junco]

WA time.

OY!! POISONS!!

[urban hare]

ok, thanks. I wanted to clarify the opener because I am seeing people use vendeta right off, and from what I can see, thats not right. so I wanted to know why. thanks

[lone junco]

If you are seeing that. Look at their log. Look at the timeline for resources. And e loss. If the yburn some e=bad. If not. They are just being edgy

[radiant egret]

hey guys i was wondering if its a good idea to run blindside for mythic guhunn?

[lone junco]

Vendetta before tb. Ok. Before Dd proc. Ok. But prior to g r is nothing.

@radiant egret you can sim the execute patchwerk. And no. But gutripper has value.

[radiant egret]

thanks mate

[lone junco]

Try 1boss execute patchwerk. 5min or whatever the kill time is post 20%

[mortal meadow]

is the dungeon slice sim good for assa rogues with SS traits? i heard the sim doesnt drop combat so it doesnt count the SS traits in or am i wrong?

[dark token]

yes its good

source: i have 3

seems pretty accurate

[strange python]

Stupid question; does feint affect quaking or nah

[royal lantern]

i dont think so

[strange python]

Thanks

[pale agate]

does shroud last long enough to skip the entire bridge trash in SotS?

skipping from the two tentacles pull all the way to the building

[fair blaze]

yeah

but your mates need to mount up and it's safe to have sprint ready 😃

[proud cedar]

What's the easiest way to get from 110 to 120

[civic palm]

IE's

[proud cedar]

That's what I figured. I'll turn on war mode and grind them out tonight

[earnest kestrel]

does this look right?https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jwy8RisySb6zwjvbEP28JR

im kinda unsure why crit is better then haste

[civic palm]

Because you need more of it, or are wearing a trait that heavily favors it.

[earnest kestrel]

other then if DD makes me want the raid buff to be crit

yea thanks

is their a certain combo that makes it stronger then haste

[civic palm]

Nah just stats going up and down due to what you already have.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[earnest kestrel]

swo i shouldnt be scared of reorigination being crit and not haste?

[civic palm]

It's probably gonna happen from weapon enchant procs anyway.

[earnest kestrel]

i curently kept crit off the weapons for that and the fact that i pvp as well guess it is what it is

[civic palm]

The SIMs track those procs as well, doing so probably led to a DPS loss as stacking the same enchant leads to such.

[thick narwhal]

slow to this hype train, but what I'm reading is, echoing blades can proc a total of five times in one spin?

[sturdy python]

Yes

[thick narwhal]

...that's busted...even if it's on a low lvl azerite piece, that's busted

[sturdy python]

Not really. It WAS busted

Now its just good if youre in big packs

[civic palm]

Huge packs really.

[thick narwhal]

what did blizz nerf? I know there was a hot fix recently

[civic palm]

Nothing new.

[muted jacinth]

looks like youre really lacking crit off gear @earnest kestrel

[wary moon]

Hi

How big of a dps increase is going troll instead of belf

for sin

[muted jacinth]

i actually lose 30 dps going troll from blood elf

[wary moon]

what

[muted jacinth]

https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination?data_view=races general consensus as well

[wary moon]

isnt the racial like OP though

how does this make sensed

sense*

[muted jacinth]

got nerfed

[wary moon]

ah ok

[muted jacinth]

its less overall haste but slightly longer

blood elf also gains passive 1% crit as well

[cobalt gyro]

about time though tbf

also troll would almost certainly win out if you ran exsang

[muted jacinth]

i gain 26 dps going troll with exsang subterfuge / 1 shrouded 1 dd 1 archive

however its still 19,360

[gray citrus]

👀

[strange python]

Change an enchant or gem to crit and then do sim as a troll with exsang

[tidal jetty]

10% haste for a bit every 3min really isnt that huge

[empty tide]

on M+ with double Echo blades

you use HB or MAssassin?

or none of those

[vapid moth]

i keep thinking to myself i cant get a third EB or SS. but then i remember i can i just need one for the chest slot

ive never had either of them drop for chest :/

and never will at this point

[muted jacinth]

i lose damage going full crit @strange python with troll and BE

[fallow estuary]

wtb new trinkets

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t2My4vfo3VTg5Pp4GgSHkj

365

[strange python]

@muted jacinth Just replace 1 enchant or gem not everything

[muted jacinth]

that is a lot of gem sockets easy lol

doesnt make a difference btw cold. still prefers haste

might be because my crit and haste are so close together though for array skewing

[strange python]

yeah that'd make sense

[unborn vapor]

Is there a haste breakpoint we have to get to as sin rogues?

[civic palm]

No it's more that you lose too much in other stats that they start becoming better.

[unborn vapor]

So where is everyone sitting at then? I'm just starting to gear out my rogue and he has like 8% haste which feels super low

[civic palm]

You'll end up getting 2x that much Haste and still want more.

[unborn vapor]

Obviously i will sim along the way but just to get a general idea

[civic palm]

Yeah just get as much Crit and Haste as you can for Single Target, move Haste to Mastery for AoE.

[unborn vapor]

Ok cool thanks for the help friend!

[final stone]

Sad that I have gone this whole tier with not seeing a mythic weapon drop:/ yet https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4qNKv6K2AZKTUgzh5TdTC1

[wanton lava]

for mythic zul do rogues go sub or if stay assass should we use EB and AOE traits to pump that masssive dps?

[stone mesa]

is subterfuge fixed?

[civic palm]

Yes

[cobalt gyro]

if you're going EB and AoE traits you're not really hewlping kill the boss

[wanton lava]

k just wondering how people are doing 50k dps . I can only get 25kj at best in my current traits on mythic zul my guild just got to the boss

[stone mesa]

cheese

[cobalt gyro]

r1 with pure aoe

this was also posted on tuesday

so im assuming it was before the nerf

[civic palm]

Yeah I don't think that the pernerf parses were removed.

[cobalt gyro]

87 fans with 1200 echoing hits

damn lmao

[civic palm]

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[brave rampart]

🤔

[polar cape]

something is not quite right

[bleak spoke]

does thistle tea still work

[civic palm]

Yeah sure.

[steep obsidian]

hmm i wonder if making the 385 eng helm is worth it right now

for dungeons

oh that is kinda cool i made a 385 alc stone and you get refunded the expulsom for the 355 and 370 versions when you scrap them

snot bad

so its actually pretty cheap to make tbh

[odd tapir]

u can't make the eng helm now ... it requires matz from new raid

[civic palm]

"raid matz"

[steep obsidian]

if you make the 370 version don't you get a 385 version though? it just doesn't have the added row of traits

yeh that

the pattern for 385 version

that is how i made the alch stone last night

make 355 then 370 then 385 and then got refunded all the expulsom and hydrcone from the first 2

when i scrapped em

[brave gyro]

Anyone else feel like poisons are not applied as often/fast this patch? 🤔

[high siren]

are there ppl simming to 20k already ?

[cobalt gyro]

ye

[signal summit]

I sim 19.6 i think

But saw someone at 20.3 i believe

[high siren]

woah, 20.3, sick

[signal summit]

Idd

[fickle zinc]

hey guys does it change something to get quicly navigation on MH or OH ?

[winter moss]

not really

[solid nova]

No, it doesnt matter.

[fickle zinc]

ok ty 😃

[marble hemlock]

only matters if you, say, have only 1 385 weapon that you use for both raiding and m+/pvp, while having different statpriorities for each type of content

so for example youd like to have deadly+quick for raiding, and deadly+masterful for m+. if you only have 1 385 weapon, you want the deadly on that one and swap the offhand depending on the type of content your engaging in

[honest needle]

is the 85 main stat food better then haste if u dont have haste food ?

?

[patent topaz]

if 85 * stat weight for agi > 70 * stat weight for haste

[last sundial]

guys, any idea why the Razzashi Tooth Medallion is not listed on bloodmallet etc? is it that bad? got a 385 version from the tortollan

its 313 agi with 202crit procc for 8sec

[vast forum]

It's probably a new trinket

8.1 brought a few new wq/emissary trinkets

And bloodmallet might not have them all updated

[thorn tartan]

But imo the New trinkets are quite good

[vast forum]

Stat sticks with procs/on-uses are generally good in bfa cuz "more interesting" ones are just lacking in numbers

[ocean root]

hey guys.Do you know if laser matrix worth's more than archive on ST bosses?

[vast forum]

No

But

In general, archive is better

[ocean root]

yeah i did and still sim shows laser matrix as an upgrade (0,5% tbh) than archive on 5min fight 1 boss

but this makes no sense for real 😛

[nimble tartan]

Quick mainhand only stay woke

[hollow kelp]

is snapshoting still a thing? if yes how it works?

[magic mural]

You apply a buff or debuff, while empowered by another buff or stance, and then the empowerment lasts for the entire duration or until you refresh.. That's why you shouldn't

Snapshotting works with subterfuge, when stealthed or vanished, and then applying garrote (up to 3 times)

It works with nightstalker, for anything , instant dmg gets buffed by 50% as well as dots (garrote, rupture, CT)

You should abuse the pandemic mechanic, so that you refresh a non empowered dot (30% duration) with the snapshotted one,so that it gets 130% duration. Only if possible. With subterfuge go for max amount of garrote duration (3*100% is max)

With nightstalker go for max cp on finisher dots

[last sundial]

@vast forum yeah its a new trinket i guess, but they already added a lot of them, the proc is actually lower than on other trinkets, but still shouldnt be that bad to bet not on the list at all

[vast forum]

Probably higher proc rate then

@ocean root tbh, most important fights have dps checks at the end of the fight and/or last more than 5 min

Ghuun only has last phase as dps check, so archive has full value

Mythrax is kind of a last-phase burst too

So i think archive is always better, but feel free to use what you like

Also, archive is just straight up better on any multitarget situation (mythrax add for example)

[ocean root]

thats why i can understand why sim is so wrong for mine setup

[strange python]

hey guys, mythic aoe mastery>crit>haste? and 1-2 AoE echo of blades and 1 SS ?

i am atm 40mastery 22 crit 13 haste 2 Echo and 1 ss but dps isnt somethign great playing with CT and Toxic

[solid nova]

For M+ if you're running 1ss, I cant see TB simming higher than Exang

!m+

[prisma monolith]

Use the fight style Dungeon Slice (Beta) for a M+ simulation on Raidbots.

[solid nova]

Use this

[strange python]

how to put command :S

[solid nova]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear

[strange python]

thanks Richard !

[strange python]

where u pop Exs ? main target or ?

[winter moss]

where you can get the most value of it, if the target dies 3 secs after you exsang it is useless

[strange python]

Thank you all for being helpfull

[midnight ledge]

Is there any info about the new trinkets with agi and proc crit?

Was checking bloodmallet and hero dmg cant find anything about it

[maiden forge]

@midnight ledge you mean this? https://www.wowhead.com/item=166794/forest-lords-razorleaf&ilvl=355&bonus=0

[ember pulsar]

I got this trinket 370. Simming worse than taloc trink 385 or Harlan's 360 with socket

[midnight ledge]

Yeah @maiden forge didnt find any simulation

[strange python]

Guys for asin raid stats haste>crit>mastery?

[steep obsidian]

sim yourself

but yes for pure single target that is generally right

but there aren't many pure st bosses

[strange python]

than more like as u said @steep obsidian haste>crit=mastery

for adds

[sudden mantle]

just a nub question i just boosted a rogue, i want to get the hidden skin for assasin, but after killing like 30 rares in underbelly it doesnt drop

do i need to finish the full order hall campain

to get it drop?

[wary ice]

I think u just need to be less unlucky

[sudden mantle]

[vapid moth]

Sin hidden skin was trash I felt. I'm a nelf that dagger seemed too fucking big. Must look like swords on the smaller races

[wary anchor]

which dagger shows the illusion the most?

[strange python]

#transmog

[visual topaz]

what's the most affective thing to my dps ? i mean is it Traits or ?

im simcin only 13,5k at 372 ilvl and that's what im doing atm.

would surely like to get that up

[solid nova]

Post sim

[visual topaz]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/grJXjuZmb4PNJ1HBf1wXR

[solid nova]

No array stacks

CT on an ST sim

[regal tundra]

And Helter Skelter instead of Patchwerk

[solid nova]

Yeah its not even a ST sim 🤔

Not sure what you're trying to do there bud

But thats why you sim badly lol

Ill re-sim it for you quick

[visual topaz]

okay 😄

[solid nova]

How many array stacks do you have?

10?

[visual topaz]

6 atm

[solid nova]

aite

@visual topaz https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/k5jTPbbSnBseAjYQvv9JZg

[visual topaz]

daym

i changed a bit

[solid nova]

RA stacks contribute a lot too, so the remaining 4 will add a fair bit more.

[visual topaz]

okay! ty

[fast nacelle]

@solid nova why are you so handsome

[solid nova]

Make sure you enable the following, and adjust your RA stacks appropriately.

You can always run top gear with /simc options to find out better options

as i just ran it quick from your amroury

[visual topaz]

in rotation, do you use exsanguinate allways when available ? do you prepare for it like generate 100 energy or smthing ?

[solid nova]

@fast nacelle

No you need to refresh dots prior

[visual topaz]

yeah

ofc

but not anything else

just get them over 20sec and hit it

need to try that gear

what would you choose on traits in general ? i know i asked that bfr here, but im getting confused as i am watching the bloodmallets and in example SS is allmost last on the list

[slim olive]

Use https://www.herodamage.com

its much better

its options for different encounters

and talent setups

[visual topaz]

okay, ty !

[slim olive]

Soo like for mythic plus you nearly always use the EXSG setup

Soo you can see there that SS is valued pretty high

[visual topaz]

oh yeah

[primal gazelle]

feelsbad that we shouldnt use EB on tyrannical weeks 😦

its pretty fun having aoe burst for once

[visual topaz]

but where i can get azerite gear other than Uldir and emissarys ?

if titan resi is not counted yet

[primal gazelle]

pvp?

[visual topaz]

i should start playing it

just started again after Lich King and didn't do PVP back then either

[spice surge]

Pvp weekly chest*

Assaults give a lot of Azerite too

Most of them give a 370 Azerite

[crisp leaf]

M0s give some azerite :P

[spice surge]

But its only 340, so it gives 1 residium per piece

Whereas the 370 ones from assaults give 12

[sonic marten]

don't the assaults happen daily?

so we should be grinding those every day for TR it seems? b/c i haven't done any haha

[hard cedar]

i switched recently back to assassination and i have a question. is ss still buggy when applying a not buffed garrote?

[grim wolf]

no that got fixed you can do your vanish gggg

[hard cedar]

nice, thanks

[unkempt karma]

For people chasin assaults
http://assaulttimer.com/

[sonic marten]

apparently it can drop 395 gear

in the cache

is there a loot table somewhere of the gear you can get from the cache?

[unkempt karma]

Never heard a cache can bonus roll.

Could it be depending on current itemlvl?

[spice surge]

I mean, its loot like everything else

Ofc it can titanforge

(if its not azerite that is)

[unkempt karma]

assasults is pure azerite

[spice surge]

Its not

[unkempt karma]

so basically it cant ^^

ive done every single one

since release

[spice surge]

Most of them is azerite, not all

5/6 on eu has been azerite

[unkempt karma]

all azerite. Thast why the quest says azierite armor cache

All mine have been azerite ^^

Depending on quest it can reward this.
Azerite Armor Cache or 7th Legion Equipment Cache/ Honorbound Equipment Cache- these scale based on your item level.

Should it not been better distributed considering that its been mostly pure aziertie ?

[spice surge]

🤷

Probably more azerite if you have high ilvl

[bronze holly]

Is bursting blood better for us on single target then the stat potion?

[spice surge]

No

[unkempt karma]

only 378-380 eq and 385 in bags

[true rapids]

What's the best sim set up for M Mythrax?

[strange python]

outlaw

[vestal stump]

Or hold vanish and garrote add + boss.