et bang
#assassination
solid lava
spice surge
If you did your rotation correct its impossible to get 30's
vast forum
I mean, your perfect and real perfect seem a bit differen
solid lava
well, a correct rotation, dont play with words..
coarse knot
Only 30s to 50s seems rather odd
vast forum
30s are for beginners and people who die mid-fight
solid lava
when I change it all
coarse knot
Not gonna change that big of a jump
solid lava
I jump tp 36% mastery
coarse knot
What’s your ilvl
solid lava
383
spice surge
The difference between 0 gems and 7 gems is way smaller than the difference between 30 procentile and 90 procentile
like
WAAAY smaller
zinc furnace
is raidbots currently accurate in terms of simming new traits (fok and vendetta one)
strange python
You will never have 2 exact same fights, shit happens. You have to move from shit at wrong times etc etc
spice surge
Which isnt gonna triple your dps
coarse knot
You were only parsing 30s as 383!!!!
solid lava
nah
spice surge
Hit me up with one of your haste logs vs one of your mastery logs
solid lava
its not a story of one day bro
strange python
So compare one week with X gem, vs next week with X gem wont be a true test.
solid lava
@coarse knot your comment is useless xd
vast forum
280 mastery=600 dps
coarse knot
What your saying isn’t making sense
vast forum
30 to 90 is 5k dps
coarse knot
7 gems isn’t gonna make you jump up that high
main flicker
I mean i had no idea what i was doig and my avg hc is 55% havnt done a hc raid since then
solid lava
Well, its just a resume
since I got more mastery on my stats
My logs and DPS are way more high
strange python
Link a log @solid lava
main flicker
If you crit to often your haste will lose some value
If you dont haste will gain value
coarse knot
Pretty sure every Assad’s rogue goes crit haste
main flicker
and so on
coarse knot
Stacking haste gems
main flicker
Atm yes
Haste/Crit is best for raid atm
But when you get more crit, haste will lose value since you will get more combo points from ur mutilate crits and such
solid lava
so you guys run which stats ?
main flicker
For AoE all u need is EB and ez game
solid lava
by %
main flicker
For raids i stack crit haste
solid lava
at how much % ?
strange python
@solid lava wheres tha logs at m8
coarse knot
In raid I’m over like 35% haste with like 35% crit
solid lava
@strange python coming mamen
main flicker
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/tarren-mill/Thylstab there is my M+ gear
coarse knot
And around 20 mastery
pallid snow
for M+ on Fortified I stack Crit / Mastery / and a some haste depending on Keylevel
pallid snow
On M+ on Tyranical I up Haste to around 15%ish
strange python
no logs available it says for me? oO
main flicker
THey are hidden
strange python
wait im dumb
solid lava
I was between 61 to 73
strange python
was checking 8.1 😄
solid lava
nah click on 8.0
so with Lot of haste, i was around 61 to 73
lot of mastery
97
16k dps
so im a bit confused
and want to be sure at 100% which stats should I farm and focus
spice surge
You sim yourself
coarse knot
Well if it’s doing fine then stick with it
spice surge
Then you know what stats to go for?
Different gearsets of azerite give different stat weights
coarse knot
There’s a lot that factors into parses
solid lava
I trust raidbot y
civic palm
The feeeel.
solid lava
I see a lot of performer, going for 2SS+ Archive on raids
signal summit
My stat weights are mastery-haste-crit atm
solid lava
y, I do more more dps by stacking mastery
when everyone says, "stack haste stack haste"
until one point that, pressing mutilate getting laggy because its too quick for the game
strange python
Haste > Mastery > Crit, my stat weights
civic palm
Mut can't be "too quick".
strange python
Also Ozzi, theres quite the diffefernce in gearset between your parses
Run the same gear you did on your mastery parse, but with haste instead
and compare result
with some % difference to be normal
solid lava
@strange python y, I guess its very hard to have a true comparaison
stats weight for me = Crit, mastery, agi, haste
civic palm
HMMM
strange python
Like the trinket you used when running haste set, is bottom 5 😃
And then on mastery parse, you use 2 really good trinks
ofc youre gonna have a major dps increase 😃
solid lava
what do you mean ?
civic palm
I mean a 3k DPS increase from using a different trinket is so much that I don't know why you would ever use the worse trinket.
solid lava
maybe because i dropped it after by farming O-o
strange python
@solid lava 99% uptime on garrote vs 72% uptime
also improves the dps by ALOT
😄
civic palm
Sounds like there are other issues.
strange python
Or you played the fight in another way than the other
solid lava
might be
strange python
HIgh log you get to sit on Mother fulltime, other log you didnt
ofc one beats the other
😄
civic palm
Follow the SIM'd weights, they're not going to lie to you unless you use the tool incorrectly.
solid lava
to be sure
when you stats weights
its goes from top to bottom
the top stats will get more dps if you stack i t
solid lava
crit 2.36
mastery 2.33
agi 2.24
haste 2.21
so for exemple here, I need to stack a bit more crit
this stats will give me the higher dps per crit points increase
strange python
Yes, but just cause it says get crit now doesnt mean you should hunt crit on all your gear
in a piece or two the weights will probably be different 😄
civic palm
How much Haste do you have?
knotty lichen
Hi guys, anyone already tried out today’s version of EB?
devout glen
sucks the new nothing personal trait is good because i have like 50 verse and it sims awful 😄
civic palm
o _O
devout glen
sims worse than rezans for :-[
solid lava
@civic palm before i got around 29%
now i lowered it to 20%
we talk without any buff
iam like
22% crit 20% hast and 36% mastery
something like that I guess
(im at work, difficult to have correct number)
knotty lichen
Huge mastery % if it is your ST gear imho
But when I look at your stats weights I may need to sim myself again
strange python
30% crit?
knotty lichen
Haste
civic palm
Just even more devalued considering the very low Crit.
lusty narwhal
main flicker
Easy to get high ilvl
knotty lichen
I’m running something like 23%crit 21% haste 21%mast atm but my trinkets are middle range
ST I mean
twilit seal
is it legit though, that with elaborate planning, I'll have like two finishers, then it drops and I repeat doing two finishers?
or should I keep it up 100% (though I think i dont have enough haste for this)
strange python
The higher uptime, the better ofc.
solid lava
I need a bit more crit then, Anyway, in one month
twilit seal
ye im pooling at 80 energy and doing envenom and env again
solid lava
we will have to change it all
civic palm
Nah nothing changes, weights remain the same 😛
solid lava
y, but the balance will change accordingly
with the new stuff
by what you drop and so on
there is nothing to do atm in wow, you feel the same
just doing some high keys or pvp, its so boring
solid lava
ahhhhh
you see
people shouting , haste haste haste
one rogue told me, if you go over 22% Haste , you got on more tick on your bleeds
is this information true ?
maybe our hard cap is 22% then 😄
we really need one captain around this discord
mossy adder
No caps
solid nova
There is no hard cap.
mossy adder
Just sim for stats
knotty lichen
There’s no cap as far as I know
On the other hand I don’t know the haste influence on dot tick rate, maybe 22% is kinda waypoint-ish
strange python
I can be your captain Ozzi, i got world first hogger so my opinion should be real valid
😄
solid lava
world first hogger means ? sorry, english is not my mother tongue 😄
knotty lichen
But it doesn’t change the fact that crit and mastery improve more your dps than haste atm
strange python
It means nothing really @solid lava . 😃
knotty lichen
Hogger is the humanoid “field boss” near stormwind
patent topaz
I have 31 haste with array and it still sims the highest
knotty lichen
Like the one that used to terrorize newbies
knotty lichen
Uldir bonus
solid lava
oh ok
Grizzled, i was like you before
full haste
and my perf was not that good, i dont know
with array got really more than 31% haste
knotty lichen
I’m at 30 ish % with array and food buff, still my stats weights are like crit 2.26 mast 2.24 agi 2.16 haste 2.00
solid lava
yep
strange python
Best advice you could get all day long @solid lava , less thinking about if Sim is wrong and more thinking/reading up on about rotations etc.
patent topaz
just play better, dont sim stats
solid lava
@strange python +1
its strange as well if we talk about rotation
I see some replay logs
where people are opening like
garrot, rupture,garrot, mutilate, rupture, vendetta, TB
knotty lichen
Yup gameplay improvements helps more than 3% crit to perform better ^^
solid lava
or double garrot, rupture, mutilate till 5pts, vendetta, mutilate, TB envenom
knotty lichen
Opening depends on talents/traits, there’s detailed explanation on ravenholdt
solid lava
yep
i already saw on Ravenholdt site
but when you watch the Invicius replay
he does this
garrot rupture garrot mutilate rupture
strange python
Hello guys what do you thinks about the new World Boss trinket ? Forest Lord's Razorleaf
patent topaz
yes that is the exsang opener
quick ice
yeah that seems right
knotty lichen
At the ends of the empowered garrote
quick ice
why would you vanish there?
solid lava
after the first bleeds rotation
knotty lichen
You still have vanish at that moment when you don’t run exsang anyway
quick ice
oh, yeah
solid lava
should we play exg or TB in raid ?
patent topaz
I perefer exsang
spice surge
Whatever sims the highest for you
solid lava
ok
knotty lichen
If I run SS traits I usually exsang
solid lava
even in M+
patent topaz
I think exsang is better on bosses like vectis, mythrax and ghuun
solid lava
maybe exg will be better
quick ice
I mean you don't need to vanish before exsang in your opener because you have the empowered garrote from stealth
knotty lichen
It’s more bursty, you gain energy quicker with the sped up bleeds
solid lava
so how do you open on M+
you go for triple garrots
then rupture on your main target
then exg ?
knotty lichen
On packs yes, sometimes I squish FoK in the middle to CT before exsang but it’s not truly a gain I think, depends of the duration of the pack
And the number of mobs
compact harbor
Hey. Are 385 Engineering goggles worth it for m+? Even with nerf?
honest needle
\is the alchemy trinket good for rogues at all
quick ice
its not great
spice surge
Its not yet on herodamage, but a good approximation is the Azerokk's Resonating Heart trinket
strange python
what about the new WB trinket ?
knotty lichen
Someone said the 385 wb trink was on par with fathoms yesterday
pallid spruce
how this pro players from streams are able to keep the DPS on +20-22 keys the dps over 18k-20k all the time. i mean the dps does not go down much
spice surge
Its worse than spyglass, dont know how muchthought
So yeah, basicly on par with fathoms
strange python
ok
knotty lichen
High life level = higher uptime on dots (if managed well) so higher dps cause sin is not really a bursty spec like dh/...
pallid spruce
tell me somthing that i didnt know alrdy
knotty lichen
Hmm hard to guess, I’ll pass on that one ^^
pallid spruce
they have more mastery cos it is mythic + so they run for AOe more but how the single targed is so stable still and high with out haste
if i drop my haste to 10-12% like they do and take same mastery
my single targed dps goes down even dots are 98-100% up
spice surge
You dont lose that much ST damage by not going haste
And short fights help make up for t
drifting cloud
they definetly dont do 20k st
spice surge
Also, using pots on every pull means your damage will be significantly higher
strange python
Coz Mastery is more valuable on short fight, spcially with exangue
knotty lichen
I run with 10% haste in m+ (35-40% mast), +14 I’m usually at 16-17k overall with 377 ilvl (so 10 under the pro player) and i don’t pot on packs, I’m at 15-16k ish when a boss dies
fringe urchin
i have two ss but i dont get 4 combo points when i garr out of stealth
or how does that work
spice surge
Only damage and stats scale with multiple of the same traits
drifting cloud
only dmg stacks
pallid spruce
how much haste crit and mastery u have when u run mythic + normaly
knotty lichen
27ish crit 9-10 haste 35-40 mast and 2-3 vers from memory, can’t verify now
granite rampart
I run 14% haste, 23% crit, 38% mastery and I’m almost 1.9k r.io. i could drop some haste for some more crit/mast but I keep it at 14 just for comfort on bosses. anything much lower feels awkward
pallid spruce
i have around same as you just 2% mor emastery and 2% less haste
granite rampart
yeah then your stats are fine
pallid spruce
but i dont feel it is good i feel it like amd rasty and slow rolf 😄
granite rampart
yeah that’s why I’ve been keeping 14% haste for single target. it makes the boss fights a bit more bearable but keeps the build versatile enough on trash encounters too
I do have 5 sockets on my gear however
vapid lodge
What traits are you guys running for m+? echoing blades is still good after the nerf right?
sleek rampart
playing with 2x ss 1x eb
granite rampart
it’s ok, depends on the dungeon if I would run it
vapid lodge
is it worth running 2x eb for good dungeons?
coarse knot
Mm that trait all depends on how big the pulls you do are
granite rampart
maybe if your doing giant packs in like motherload or freehold.
coarse knot
Less then 4 mobs it’s kinda useless
vapid lodge
ahh k
granite rampart
remember eb also provides no single target value so you lose a lot on bosses running it
pallid spruce
hmm
coarse knot
It’s a very confusing trait
coarse knot
I mean you could always clear all trash then run out real fast and change the gear 😂
vapid lodge
lol
coarse knot
Worth a shot right?
granite rampart
I think for the most part 2 ss + a sob, eb, or DD are all fine
pallid spruce
sob is scent of blood ?
knotty lichen
y
granite rampart
DD is really good on tyrannical weeks, EB is good if your doing massive pulls where you can reliably get 4+ crits on fok, and sob is good on small bulky trash like UR or KR
yea scent of blood
all kinda depends on the instance and the pulls you expect to do, but I still feel like at least 2 SS is the way to go still
coarse knot
I run 3 cause yolo lol
twilit seal
only have one, feelsbadman
granite rampart
3 isn’t even bad lol especially if you have mythic fetid chest, emissary shoulders and voldun world boss helm
coarse knot
I have the 385 Ss helm
granite rampart
lucky
granite rampart
yeah there’s only one ss helm from dungeons, I’ve just been using 360 ss helm from world boss last week
pallid spruce
but do u have 2x or 3x head my call
coarse knot
Ye my guild not getting fetid down anytime soon on mythic
Planning on changing guilds
I have like 2 I think
One has overwhelming
But cheat and shoulders aren’t 385 there still 370
Chest*
granite rampart
yeah I haven’t done any keys this week but I’ll probably use 390 fetid chest, 375 emissary shoulder both SS, and try the 390 mythic vectis helm for EB, or the dark shore world boss helm that I got that has sob.
prisma sail
M Fetis sucks when half the group doesn't know to stop moving so much
pallid spruce
i dont have 3 head my calls or powerover....i have to run 2 headmycalls and one azerite glovules
globules
prisma sail
question all, BFA Season 2 hasn't started yet, that starts Jan 22, or has it already?
granite rampart
Jan 22
prisma sail
I figured, damn, would love to make this sweet 385 trinket, huge upgrade
granite rampart
I wish they had delayed all those dungeon changes until then tbh
coarse knot
Craft the 355 trinket it will give 370 recipe and so forth from the 370 capping at 385
If your talking about the alchemy one
I’m stocked to see how the new azerite double main trait is gonna go
granite rampart
if you haven’t looked yet
look at the loot table from next raid
the pieces we get are STACKED
coarse knot
Plus that new trait that gives 300 main star for being above like 60% but it makes you take like 20% more damage below that
Oh yeah
coarse knot
First thing I looked at I was like holy shit we are gonna be nutty...
I was thinking triple Dd with triple TTk
Super sustain and fat burst with TTK
idk gonna be some interesting builds
granite rampart
yeah and so many good pieces drop from early bosses too. gonna be easy
coarse knot
Plus if you get lucky and actually get them super loggers
Poggers
Def saving 5 rerolls plus 2 more and just spamming those bosses 😂
granite rampart
they actually made every single boss drop azerite in the new raid
coarse knot
I’m getting them azerite a
I saw that
Probably cause you can’t get them from chest anymore so feels hella bad
granite rampart
yeah so now you’ll actually see people using different pieces with different traits, not just like in Uldir where people were running fetid chest with SS and 2 archive lol
wanton lion
hey guys, I used to have a nice WA that tracked empowered garrotes and I somehow managed to delete my WA after 8.1. Can you suggest any good ones? cheers
coarse knot
I would help but I myself needa start using WA
I have no idea how to use it tho gonna be some learning to do
wanton lion
quite handy when you get them to work properly and they are not just clutter on your screen 😄
leaden garden
Is tb still viable specc?
granite rampart
yeah tb can still be good
just usually if you have any SS pieces exang performs better.
coarse knot
Very good with gale callers if you can get a good one
leaden garden
Ok i have archive, double dose and rez fury, tb is the way to go for me?
coarse knot
Yes
granite rampart
yeah
leaden garden
Thanks brothers
coarse knot
Btw does anyone know if that blight trait becoming a new thing??
quick ice
the warfront one?
coarse knot
Nah the crit one
Never seen anyone really use it
But I hear some people talking about it
coarse knot
Ye ye
spice surge
Its only available on like 2 pieces, both shoulders
coarse knot
I have one I use it but only cause it was better than the mutliate one
But when it does proc it’s like never ending frogs
spice surge
Maybe a helm from emisarries if you're alliance
pallid spruce
whta u think u run 375 item insted of 390 if the azerite traits are perfect in 375 but not that perfect on 390
coarse knot
yea it’s also my best
brave gyro
Is it just me, or Assa feels slower this patch?
granite rampart
feels the same to me
solid nova
APM hasnt changed, its all you
sleek iron
how is the new alchemy trinket 385?
patent topaz
370 dice simmed 1 dps more than my fathoms yesterday
forgot about the trinket, can we craft 385 right now or do we have to wait for s2 like with the engi helm?
sleek iron
can craft now no?
wet oxide
Can craft 385. Higher require new raid
fiery cradle
fkn fathoms can suck nads https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3VJZWDe1q2Q13yyQuXgyqt
cobalt gyro
you can
cloud spoke
you must be playing a different game then
cloud spoke
i got a recipe for "tidal alchemist stone", its 385 by default and needs tidalcores
oh yours is the old one, i see
jolly trout
wait how did you get that stone so high
modest badge
does it work with healthstones?
cobalt gyro
not sure
twilit seal
only potions
spice surge
Potion and healthstone do not share cd anymore
honest needle
whats fastest way to get 100 war supplies at level 110 to start the campaigne to get to the horde zones to do the new invasions
i wanna do the new invasions to level my alts
but i dont kno how to get to the horde zones
wet oxide
Look for treasure chests on map, or do quests. Some quests give some supplies
molten cosmos
Well x2 EB and x1 SS is so strong in MM+
tawny nova
It is?
hard perch
Didn't they nerf EB by 50% ?
strange python
i look musclebrah and think: wtf have i doing wrong yesterday?
i test it in WM and it was strong
in Boralus it wasnt strong
now he play Boralus and it is strong.. wtf -.-
dark crag
Different pulls, better gear, many factors
echo night
Like wasnt the EB nerf neccessary?
knotty lichen
They fixed the crit rate on echoing fok to 100% between yesterday & today
ocean rain
better player
spice surge
EB is still very good for doing big pulls
knotty lichen
Like, the proc from eb is always a crit
spice surge
Its just not the most broken trait ever anymore
knotty lichen
Look at the hot fixes of the day
wet oxide
Eb proc grants combo points or just the crits that proc it?
sturdy python
Eb doesn't change cp generation
wet oxide
So just fok gives combos. Got it
tawny nova
Do people actually have EB pieces at high ilvl or are people dropping 385s for 370s just to gain the right traits?
Or is the answer just sim it and find out
dark crag
Be smart and keep every piece because blizz might buff things
sturdy python
Eb isn't strong enough to drop 15 ilvls for after the nerf
At least if the 385 isn't s horrible trait
tawny nova
Right, I see. Thanks.
strange python
390 SS and 2 375 EB
echo night
Would 1x EB 1x SS 1x SoB be a good trait combo? All 385
sturdy python
Probably not bad, eb and sob aren't going to benefit you a ton in St though
strange python
i think you have more value with 2 EB
jaunty salmon
And you play with secret bald e ?
echo night
Need to hunt down some 385 pieces with EB then
jaunty salmon
or still crimson
echo night
Still crimson from what ive seen
jaunty salmon
i see
sturdy python
And I'd Sim or check herodamage. SS or sob in sustained aoe may be better than eb
echo night
When is the 5th azerite ring coming btw?
sturdy python
Jan 22
echo night
-_-
Blizz always long gating content....
Then need to throw their costumers a huge bone soon if they want to keep subs
Over 30 guys in my guild quit wow because of blizz fucking over BfA...
leaden garden
Herodamage is better than bloodmallet?
echo night
Morr frequent updates and more indepth info
leaden garden
Ah okay awesome cheers
echo night
More*
leaden garden
Is nothing personal a new trait?
jaunty salmon
@leaden garden ye
past star
is toxic blade or exsang best for raiding?
sick frost
what stats now for single target? haste and crit?
vast forum
Refer to the emote right above your question
vestal wren
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
south sapphire
Noob question, what does st stand for
strange python
Nothing personal is good for st
south sapphire
Lol
fallow estuary
i just did
vestal wren
fallow estuary
the first traits is okeish
vestal wren
nope ss is weaker
fallow estuary
still DD is stronger
spice surge
wat
steady grotto
It feels good that's for sure
vestal wren
np probably sees more play in the new raid
steady grotto
I don't have any 385 dd:c
vestal wren
depends on the fight
fallow estuary
yeah but the general theme seems to be melee unfriendly and dots will be strong
from what i've seen
spice surge
A lot of fights favor multidotting yes, NP is not a multidotting trait though
You dont want to vendetta something and then not be able to hit it
fallow estuary
thats what im sayin.
vestal wren
you can mix 1 np with 3x ss
you cant use 6x ss
np depends less on uptime then dd to get value
fallow estuary
If the targets are spread enough so you don't hit 3 ppl with FoK DD doesn't loose alot of value - with melee attacks and builders beeing decently strong however NP looses quite some. Also the energy reg is alot less usefull due to beeing overflowed anyway with 3+ targets ticking
but i don't think DD will be looking strong either
Maybe simple alternatives that gain value instead of loosing the higher the amount of targets such as Infusion or Sands will take over
we'll see tho :)
queen fjord
Shrouded suffocation sims ALOT less than echoing blades. For m+ i can keep 1 echo and 2 shrouded, or 2 echo and 1 shrouded. Any idea wich way to go? since sims obviously not working properly regarding suffocation?
crystal vessel
Hero damage has DDx3 as top for its first 5. Is DD affected by MP and by TB?
Above is for ST.
fallow estuary
Echoing blades doesn't require restealths to be strong while SS gains alot by constant restealthing
So Sims are widly inaccurate considering SS in M+ - i'd say SS is still one of the if not the strongest M+ trait
crystal vessel
Maybe 1 SS and 2 EB for M+ depending on the affixes.
storm pumice
queen fjord
Yeah well id lose ilvl if i get double echo. didnt notice that, so 2x shrouded and 1x echo is the way
vestal wren
m+ sim restealths
🤔 : So Sims are widly inaccurate considering SS in M+ - i'd say SS is still one of the if not the strongest M+ trait
swift delta
^
and this week for m+, go Exsanguinate, Crimson Tempest and go for more crit / mastery
haste is useless
fallow estuary
Last time i talked about sims and restealthing with what i believe was Noobe? Not sure.. - we came to the conclusion that the API is not even close to perfect considering M+
I dare to say that it's quite the impossible task to create a sim which reflects common +15 M+
Due to M+ beeing alot about "on the fly" play and not just following rules
unlike Raidfights
vestal wren
its impossible. perfect cant be achived
quaint sequoia
has there been any faction assaults yet?
vestal wren
you would need to record your gameplay and strategie and dynamically create a m+ sim for it
your group would also need to play exactly the same every time
there are just to much moving parts (m+ lvl, affix, group constellation...)
iirc m+ fightstyle was for +10 not +15
sand dirge
Does anyone else have the Cannonball Runner trinket and could test if it does any damage? It doesnt do any dmg for me. The cannon spawns, shoots and does nothing. Not even in the combat log.
vestal wren
tho you can just modify the script to make groups last longer/etc
i think one of the biggest concerns i have for m+ script is that it takes the whole dungeon as estimate
so if you want to focus on boss fights or trash you wont do that specifically
swift delta
I would just suggest do two sims or more, like one for a boss, one for 5 mobs with 1 min fight time and try find your way around it, as you state, its quite impossible to sim a whole dung lol
vestal wren
dont forget to adjust apl and raid buffs/etc if you do that
swift delta
exactly
vestal wren
might also want to use a custom script so you wont use boss targets
the 6 bosses 1 min without additional configuration is not rly good for measuring packs
strange python
Yo, is the new trinket from darkshore world boss good for m+? got one 385+socket. or shall i stick with (spyglass-galecaller - both of these 380 no socket)
golden relic
any1 got a good weakaura for subterfuged buffed garrote etc , mine broke
left ridge
Yeah mine broke too I don't know why 😦
wary ice
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
wary ice
😮 they rebuffed it?
It doesnt look like its played around any more
Is aoe just regular but also more fok damage?
instead of the fokkening
strange python
EB is 2nd bis for m+
jolly trout
In big pulls 2Eb 1SS seems kinda strong
strange python
I can only imagine 3EB 3Scent on huge pulls
strange python
Well you can do shit like 3EB + 3SS if possible too
wary ice
Until we get double outers, I'm prolly running 2xSS 1x EB swap with DD when relevent
ocean sparrow
Over here with a new rogue...with absolutely garbage azerite and wondering if I'm missing all the EB fun :(
jolly trout
jeah i mean before 4th ring
strange python
DD is not relevant in m+ at all
bold mural
that's why you never drop azerite pieces in this expansion
wary ice
IDK; absolutes are ez to prove wrong.
wary ice
k
jaunty arrow
DD is for singl
strange python
ofcs
jaunty arrow
Dunno but now for m+ looks like 2ss + 1 EB should be good
static sky
"I lost 3k DPS in Feral but redid my stats. More crit/mastery and less haste and I'm above where I was.
Just kept dumping haste and redoing my weights on raidbots until Haste was top stat again. Then threw on 1 more piece of haste gear and was sitting pretty." -- That post wasn't about a rogue, but people said "You should do a tutorial on how to sim properly". This made me realize I don't know how to sim because I don't understand what he is talking about. All I've ever used is Top Gear on raidbots.
Is there another way I should be simming?
strange python
Just keep using top gear
high siren
our current azerite gear won't be update with an additional ring right? But azerite gear from mythic that we will buy will be updated, is that correct ?
strange python
I think so, yes
jaunty arrow
I guess yes
strange python
With the start of new raid, azerite pieces will gain an additional ring
jolly trout
you don't get the 4th ring until the new raid is open
jaunty arrow
In the end 4th ring is 
strange python
Huh?
high siren
so now I have linkin park in the head
jaunty arrow
I cant see how 4th ring can improve playstyle atc when we have lots of shits traits
jolly trout
the only problem will be you may need really specific azerite pieces to get the best trait combos
strange python
Best, yeah
But it will give a boost even if its a shitty trait
Naturally people will try to get azerite pieces with the best available combos
Either for Raids and M+
jaunty arrow
Thats the one point second point i want to see more variety
Like some sinergi with some our talents like that execute one atc
glass plank
In m+, should i play 3x SS or 1xSS and 2xEB?
jaunty arrow
Try 2ss 1 EB
strange python
Just go 3SS unless ur EB traits are higher ilvl
glass plank
I have a 345 SS , better to have 375 EB then
crude bay
strange python
@glass plank A 375 EB will theoretically do better than 345 SS
jaunty arrow
Are u sure that EB can beat ss with same ilvl?
strange python
Go ahead then
jaunty arrow
Ct
simple meteor
if it's not zul trash triple EB is not worth
strange python
is it tyrannical this week?
last sundial
How do you guys usually open on m+ trashpacks? Garrote + Rupture, then FoK? Keep Garrote and Rupture up on as many targets as possible?
west cove
I currently have 3x390 azerite pieces, helm SoB, shoulder EB, chest SS. I can swap the shoulder for a 375 SS. Should I? Referring to M+ btw
simple meteor
triple garrote and then crismon/raptures
strange python
@last sundial Open with 3 garrotes, keep 4-5 ruptures up, when initial garrotes fall off you only keep 1 garrote on main target
bold mural
i'm trying 2 eb 1 ss in m+ it's op dps
west cove
Is gaining another SS worth losing 15 ilvl sand EB?
jaunty arrow
Gar 3x ct fok rup
last sundial
thx
strange python
smoky zinc
Hey everyone! Have been gearing a rogue alt specifically for M+, and I haven't found a clear directive on opening into a pack of mobs.
Should I be getting off as many garrotes as possible during Subterfuge even if it means overcapping CP courtesy of Shrouded Suffocation?
last sundial
So, for m+ crimson > poison bomb?
jaunty arrow
Ct is better
smoky zinc
holy fuck it got talked about right above while I was typing
strange python
@smoky zinc I wrote how you should open in m+ just read up 🙂
smoky zinc
lol sorry
jaunty arrow
But depends on trash pulls
primal gazelle
echo blades "should" sim better than ss in aoe situations because it offers 0 ST value, but it doesnt bc #blizzard
west cove
But EB is reliant on MA?
strange python
Echo blades will def do better on big pulls
west cove
Means we lose 2 garrottes
strange python
But then ur ST damage is garbo
smoky zinc
I've been really liking poison bomb so if I take that I just go right into ruptures after the 3 garrotes assuming stuff lives long enough (and it def will on fort week)
west cove
I think SS is more rounded
strange python
@smoky zinc Just use PB for m+ if you're just learning how to play assassination
smoky zinc
Yeah that's what I figured
I main a resto druid so I"m learning a new role for dungeons in melee on top of the spec itself
west cove
2x SS and 1xSoB
jaunty arrow
Or if your tank is scared of big pulls
jaunty arrow
U dont need ct for like 3 mobs pulls
strange python
well ofcs it will because its controlled damage
And doesn't require mobs to stay in 1 place
jaunty arrow
If u have like 20 mobs u will spam ct and fok anyway
smoky zinc
With CT, you're just making sure to refresh the bleed right? You're not using it outside of that one cast every few finishers
west cove
Just keep the dot up
west cove
I tend to use it 4+
strange python
You use it when the initial damage (not DoT) is stronger than envenom
jaunty arrow
I guess its 5+
west cove
This ^
spice sorrel
Do you not rupture then?
strange python
You do
west cove
Yes
spice sorrel
Okay, I was gonna say
smoky zinc
So at 5+, CT simply replaces enveneom in the priority list
strange python
You just use CT instead of Envenom
jaunty arrow
U just bleed all u can 
smoky zinc
And that comes back to the fact that more rupture = more energy which leads to more CT's
jaunty arrow
Yep
smoky zinc
I enjoy the foundational aspect of the spec
last sundial
thx 4 the help guys
untold cargo
its not just when ct does more initial than envenom btw
west cove
My opener in M+ is typically stealth - garrotte x3 - FoK - CT FoK - Rupture, repeat last two stages to apply 4/5 ruptures then figure it out from there
smoky zinc
Yeah
strange python
@untold cargo Why not?
smoky zinc
In packs with a priority target, you are probably still using envenom on that target, right?
strange python
Ehhh
untold cargo
envenom causes 80% poison app for 7 seconds or something
west cove
Yes, once I have a few ruptures for energy up
strange python
Yeah but that 80% is nothing in AoE
untold cargo
So fok procs more instant poison procs
strange python
CT will do more damage
untold cargo
it is significant
smoky zinc
You're not gonna have time or GCDs to take advantage of that many envenom buffs in a pull though
I don't think
spice sorrel
How does exsang play into an opener for a pack?
west cove
I've been running MP and having better results than exang
jaunty arrow
U use exs for burst big mob
smoky zinc
In that AoE type or rotation in M+, we're still using toxic blade on cd right?
strange python
Yes but u dont use TB in m+
spice sorrel
Wait @west cove MP and exsang aren't on the same row?
strange python
Going back to Envenom vs CT, you can sim it and check APL for 5+ targets
tropic shadow
For aoe with SS/exsang/ct I go: garrote 3 targets > CT > FOK to max CP > exsang
strange python
It will most likely replace envenom with CT
smoky zinc
So you exsanguinate when the target has empowered garrote, rupture, and CT on it?
untold cargo
5+ yes
strange python
Yeah and thats what I was saying
tropic shadow
Well rupture then exsang haha
untold cargo
but the point made where when ct instant dmg > env is false
west cove
Good save @tropic shadow
untold cargo
idc who said it, just pointing it out
lament dove
does nothing personal work from range...? I mean you can press vendetta from range, so does NP do the poison dmg if you do that?
strange python
30% application boost is insignificant in aoe
untold cargo
its just mathematically wrong but fine
strange python
Even Selia said it
strange python
CT is at 5CP is 3,6 attack power * 6
Envenom is 16 attack power * 5
So the initial damage is already more at 4 targets
But ifs its worth
Hold on
untold cargo
There is a ratio you aren't accounting for which favors CT the more targets that are available
i made a formula for it
ill try to write it out here i suppose
(2700X) - (10,000 + (2X*150)) = If positive CT does more if negative env does more
X= number of targets
2700 was my base CT initial damage
10,000 was base envenom damage
strange python
Ok this APL is dogshit cuz it uses Envenom at 10targets
untold cargo
^
the arbitrary 2 is average FoK for 4/5 cps
150 is the bonus dmg received from having envenom buff up for FoK poison application
bc 30% of 500 (poison application instant damage) = 150
or some shit like that, i did the math one night
untold cargo
dont worry about it lol, if you have 4 targets throw an env in until CT bleed is falling off
if its 5+ just CT always
primal gazelle
saw a rogue streaming ln sustaining 45-55k ish in a atal 20 for the big pack before the 3rd boss with 1 SS 2 EB, and regular m+ talents
beating out the havoc dh
there is hope 😮
jaunty arrow
Mind fuck is real
smoky zinc
Man this is a sweet discord. Thanks for all the insight.
Now that I'm starting to get a bit of gear and it's teeming/fort, I'm excited to try getting in with proper talents lol
untold cargo
no no
strange python
untold cargo
yes
with that formula CT exponentially better with each target
bc of the ratio
thats why it bothered me so much, it didn't make sense without writing it out
woven crypt
anyone else experienced a bug where they just dont generate any combo points at all? not a UI/addon thing because they skills just arent available, despite hitting and using energy
unkempt karma
I would want to ask, this weeks m+
What traits and would be wise to go crit/mastery as much as possible?
CT + EB any good?
spice surge
@woven crypt Yeah, just leave combat and it will work again
It has only happened in the world for me, not in m+ or raids
gusty plinth
Nothing Personal trait showing correclty on sims now ?
woven crypt
happening in the warfront for me too
spice surge
Yes Cera
icy hull
so there used to be this bug that,if you apply 3 SS-buffed garrotes during subterfuge, and then applied another garrote to a different target after subt ran out, the first 3 garrote dots wouldnt be empowered anymore... is that still the case, or did that get fixed somewhere along the way?
spice sorrel
It was fixed a while back
unkempt karma
if you do it out of the sub window
and manage to get a 4th in
you will lose it, I dont know how people can say it stays but I can see instantly in WA that they are normal
spice surge
The bug has been fixed longer than it was non-fixed now
icy hull
alright, thanks guys
spice sorrel
Ahh gotcha
woven crypt
yea this is annoying as fuck, keep not being able to generate combo points in the warfront, and also getting stuck in combat no matter what
spice surge
Ok mb, not quite, but almost
strange python
@woven crypt /reload?
woven crypt
have several times
strange python
Are u using any UI addons?
woven crypt
if i shadow step, 5 points show up, can rupture, then no more points unless i drop combat again
strange python
Such as elvui?
woven crypt
yes, everythings up to date, but no i have not tried turning it all off yet
spice surge
Vanish should get you out of combat
woven crypt
yes it does
woven crypt
well yea i know, just annoying at this exact moment
strange python
I feel ya
brisk frost
you guys know is this new Apothecary's Concotions good? got it 385. should i use it over my 85 dagger in the back or 85 nothing personal?
primal gazelle
sim yourself to find out
haughty forge
Guys why does the sim tells me to buff my haste to close to 20%? Whereas most of the top rogues in m+ rankings play with 3-5% haste
lunar tangle
temple this week ct or pb ?
strange python
Temple is never CT
lunar tangle
even on fortified?
fading harness
In what dungeons can CT thrive in
lunar tangle
Motherlode for example
static sky
ML, FH, UR, SIEGE,
spice sorrel
You never pull enough mobs for it to be worth it
static sky
anything where you pull big
craggy helm
Just run 2 FoK + 1 DD and go Master assassin, tb, PB, imo.
untold cargo
Undaddy runs it everywhere except ToS
strange python
I'd also not run CT in KR
fading harness
Shrine?
static sky
ToS and KR are the only 2 I can think of off the top of my head where it wouldn't be good
maybe Atal as well
craggy helm
yeah man
strange python
DD is garbage for m+
craggy helm
was fuckin around with dummies last night
untold cargo
Sub is generally very good in shrine but if i were to run sin there i would def use CT
tropic shadow
The only reason I would consider using DD is if you literally had nothing else
craggy helm
naw, cause youre not running subt, so DD > SS
strange python
Like literally nothing else lol
fading harness
I pug 90% of my keys so I never run sub in m+
strange python
Why would you not run Subt?
fading harness
I don’t know how my tank will pull
quiet crescent
1dd 2ss is a good kix on tyran week
strange python
No its not
quiet crescent
Good mix*
untold cargo
Once you are doing high keys your group will always play around sub when possible
like 15+
static sky
What does how your tank pulls have to do with Subt and SS?
You can still take advantage of it regardless
fading harness
I’ve been pugging 15+ and Ive never been asked to run sub
craggy helm
Becase MA + 2 EB > subt + SS (unless it's a 2 or 3 pack)
tropic shadow
Finally got a replacement for DD helm, so now it’s SSx2 1 SoB, so much better
fading harness
So I know pug groups don’t play around sub rogues 😕
But ive only tried 15-17 keys
untold cargo
People won't ask you to play a specific spec, when you say "hey im playing sub"
they do.
strange python
Can't really say MA + 2EB > subt + SS
static sky
Some* do
strange python
Your st damage will be lackluster
craggy helm
That's true, and I will probably switch to SS + subt and drop the EB next week for tyranical
but for fortified teeming?
strange python
I guess if you're doing huge pulls then yes
But then you bring a guy who has ST damage
To balance it out
static sky
Idk, even on teeming I feel like yo dont want to gimp your ST too heavily
fading harness
^
craggy helm
and it's maybe a 1k ST dps downgrade
strange python
Yeah bosses on fortified are mostly a joke
craggy helm
because still running DD for the ST
fading harness
The only boss ive had real trouble with is the final boss on TD
Healers have a hard time
On high keys
craggy helm
wtf
fading harness
From my experience
strange python
I'd say that the first one is harder
craggy helm
first boss and fire boss of tol dagor are way harder than the last 1
strange python
And the bitch with barrels
static sky
Fire boss got changed this week tho
fading harness
Key*
unkempt karma
3rd one alwayus goes wrong
static sky
no slow down on barrel pick up
unkempt karma
people never move any barrels *:P
craggy helm
oh shit?!
quiet crescent
Did 22k overall in tyran fh last week running 1dd 2xss, dont see how it's not a good mix michee.
craggy helm
will be so much easier.
strange python
Because its simply not?
You still spend most of the time killing trash
How is DD going to help you in that
strange python
From all the runs I've watched on twitch, from raider.io I've never seen any rogue running DD in m+
craggy helm
cause it's new
fading harness
Should I always FoK at 2 targets
spice sorrel
Do people not run archive at all for m+?
quiet crescent
I have for high tyran
craggy helm
was talking with undaddy about it last night on stream. The top io rogues are still unsure what's optimal
fading harness
Or does mutilate do more damage at 2 targets
static sky
I think with EB you might FoK at 2 targets, without it tho its 3+?
dont quote meo n that
strange python
Its in #tc-updates @fading harness
fading harness
Kk
quiet crescent
Michee. What's your rogues name
strange python
Why would I give it out
quiet crescent
Lol? Why not
static sky
Too many stalkers judging 😮
fading harness
To be acknowledged!
craggy helm
I'd like to try 1 SoB + 2 EB for M+, but don't have the 385 SoB. Would want to try with both MA and Subt too.
rustic ether
theyre doing dmg 100%
quiet crescent
With your strong opinions I wanted to see your accomplishments.
strange python
Haha I knew you were going to say that
craggy helm
I had it bug out even on dummies last night @rustic ether - I think there's a bug
had to relog
strange python
I've already argumented my opinion
fading harness
There is definitely a bug
rustic ether
and my mount isnt working correctly. im just running REALLY FAST lol
quiet crescent
Have you done above a 15? 18? 10?
fading harness
Ive had mutilate give no cp when i was in raid last night
untold cargo
its probably best to not judge peoples accomplishments and stick to facts
fading harness
Was not getting parried
spice sorrel
untold cargo
more productive
quiet crescent
Chewp, our convo is more situationally math based depending how your tank pulla
fading harness
Oh okay so in high keys, some sin rogues just triple garrote and envenom spam. Does rupture really matter
quiet crescent
Pulls*
rustic ether
yeah no my mutilates are hitting for 100% dmg and my energy is being used properly how is this a bug blizzard fix your SHIT
strange python
uh
spice sorrel
Mobs don't last long enough?
quiet crescent
That's why when you spend 15 mins on bosses in a 30 min timer. 1dd is worth running.
fading harness
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